1 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hey everyone, 2 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: welcome to the I Choose Me Podcast. This podcast is 3 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: all about the choices we make and where they lead us. 4 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: My guest today is a musician, a rapper, and the 5 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: lead singer of the band Future Islands that I am 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: a big fan of and you might also know him 7 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: from the Apple TV Plus show The Changeling, where he 8 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: made his acting debut last year. Please welcome Samuel t 9 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: Herring to the I Choose Me Podcast. We're gonna jump in, 10 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: but I just want to say thank you, thank you 11 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: for coming on, and thank you so much that you 12 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: said yes. 13 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 2: I think your team is the first person to find 14 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 2: my secret email who. 15 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 3: I was like, it does work, that's so cool. 16 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: Well, they're good, so that makes sense. 17 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, I got a request, but it 18 00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 2: was excited. We were really excited to hear that you 19 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 2: came to the show. That's just so cool. 20 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to give my husband credit because we both 21 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: love music, but he has introduced me to some of 22 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: the best bands around, and yours is right at the 23 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: top of that list. We just got you guys in 24 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: La at the Shrine and Dave had had seeing Future 25 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: Islands on our calendar since like May, right, and the 26 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 1: thing was, I've been traveling a lot for work. I 27 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: got home, I was home for one day. I had 28 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:28,479 Speaker 1: a photo shoot all day long, and I thought, there's 29 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: no way I'm going to be up to going to 30 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: the show. And I didn't want to disappoint him because, 31 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: like I said, he was really looking forward to it. 32 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 1: But we finished earlier that day and I literally like 33 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 1: made myself get excited to go to the show because 34 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 1: I was really excited, but I was also so so tired, 35 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: no offense. So we went and something really good happened 36 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: to me that night. Your music just reminded me to dance, 37 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: you know, and I it just genuinely made me so happy. 38 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: That carried on for days, that feeling of happiness that 39 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: I got from seeing you play live. You guys are 40 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: just incredible live. 41 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 3: Well that's uh, yeah, that's awesome. I'm glad that. 42 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 2: You know, the whole the whole point of the show 43 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 2: is to kind of crack people a bit, you know, 44 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 2: break open something that's not there. And I mean that's 45 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 2: you know, the my movement is to make other people move. 46 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 2: Of course, you know that it's a safe space. If 47 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 2: I can do it, you can do it. That kind 48 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 2: of thing, you know, it's a hook. But yeah, that's 49 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 2: just it's a high compliment and it's the goal. 50 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: We were like up in the back and everybody wanted 51 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: to sit down and I was not having that and 52 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: you were like, everybody, get up. And I'm so glad 53 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: that you said that, because these old study dudies behind 54 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: me wanted to like sit and watch you before. No, no, 55 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: thank you. 56 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 2: And you know that that happens sometimes, especially when you 57 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 2: move into theaters and stuff. But man, when I go 58 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 2: to a show, I want to sit down. I'm always 59 00:02:58,639 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 2: looking for the green room. 60 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 3: When I go to a sho I don't get to 61 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 3: go back there. 62 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: Through the Roses that has been one of our songs, 63 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 1: you know, for me, just like through All the Ship. Yep. 64 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 1: It's an upbeat mode to how hards like relationships can be. 65 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: But for me, it just reminds me that we're stronger 66 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: together somehow. And Little Dreamer is the song that I 67 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: am absolutely obsessed with right now. What does it mean? 68 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I can interpret it and maybe maybe you're 69 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: talking about your cat. I don't know, but here's what 70 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: I hear when I when I listen to it, I 71 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: hear you talking to yourself about to your little dreamer inside, 72 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: and that something so comforting to me about it, like 73 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: there's so much heartache, but it's hopeful somehow. And then 74 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: there's the fucking birds. There's birds in that song, Like 75 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: where did the birds come from? 76 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 3: That's actually a good question. 77 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 2: At some point or another I knew it was probably 78 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 2: I'm going to say it was probably William of Field 79 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 2: recording that he made, and I feel like it was 80 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: from Windell. His hometown is a tiny little town outside 81 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 2: of Rally in North Carolina. I can't I'm not actually 82 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 2: sure though. You know, in our not our most recent record, 83 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 2: with the one before that, we also the record opens 84 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 2: the song Glatta, which is it's the Swedish word for happy, 85 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 2: but it's also a bird. It's the kite, you know, 86 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 2: with the big v tails, these beautiful birds that swoop 87 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 2: over and it's like they're through England and southern Sweden. 88 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 3: And the red kite. 89 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: But that that also opens with these sounds of geese, 90 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 2: and I don't know, it's something calming when you when 91 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 2: you have we used to do we used to play 92 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 2: a lot more with field recordings. 93 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 3: It just reminds you of a place it puts. 94 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 2: It creates a setting, you know, and sometimes I think 95 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 2: about you know, of course. 96 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 3: You saw the show, so there's a theater. There's a 97 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 3: theatrical element to it. There's a theater to it. 98 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 2: But you know, and when I usually when I write 99 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 2: a song, the first line is always the hardest, and 100 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: it's about you know that those first lines are about 101 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 2: like creating the setting, just like you would a play 102 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 2: or something. 103 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 3: So I think when you have the ability to cheat 104 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 3: and put birds. 105 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 2: Sound in the sound of the sounds of uh, you 106 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 2: know when through reads. There's an album we have on 107 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 2: the Water which is has the clanking of like the 108 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 2: sails you know, on ships at night. Yeah, And I mean, 109 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 2: I don't know what the average person hears when they 110 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 2: hear that, but when I hear it, it takes me 111 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 2: right back to that place. 112 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: So yeah, there's something that like forces my brain when 113 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: I hear that to like stay really focused on what 114 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: I'm listening to. I don't know what. 115 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 2: It is, but dream is, especially that little tweet something 116 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 2: about it. 117 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 3: It's like we caught a really perfect moment from from 118 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 3: a bird. 119 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: Uh, huh, what is that? 120 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 3: Was? 121 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: I even close with my interpretation, it's. 122 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 3: Not about my cat. 123 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 2: Okay good, but no, I mean that well that song, 124 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 2: you know, that song in a lot of ways to 125 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 2: me feels like it is the It says a lot 126 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: about the life of this band. You know, Future Allens 127 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: was is eighteen and a half years old now, and 128 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 2: we had a band before that. You know, we had 129 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 2: me Wayim and Garrett the William the bassis, Scarrett the keyboardist. 130 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 3: Of course we have Mike the drummer. Don't want to 131 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 3: leave Mike out. 132 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 2: But in the beginning, the three of us had a 133 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 2: band called art Lord with a couple other friends. Art 134 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 2: Lord and this Portraits and that was like our college band, 135 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 2: performance art piece and music was the was the medium. 136 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 2: And then you know when Future Islands began in six 137 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 2: So we did that for two and a half years, 138 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 2: didn't have a band for about six months, and then 139 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 2: started Future Islands in six I was going through so 140 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 2: much in my life at that time. I had I 141 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 2: was addicted to drugs. I had a problem with cocaine 142 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,359 Speaker 2: for like two and a half years, so only like 143 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 2: four four and I know this show is about being 144 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 2: open and vulnerable, and you got the right guy. 145 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 3: Because I tell it all. 146 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 2: But it the the band kind of began when I 147 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 2: was kind of losing my mind. 148 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 3: I was at my bottom. 149 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 2: But it took another four months and then I was 150 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 2: able to leave town and get clean and through you know, 151 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 2: through my parents' help. But then I left and I 152 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 2: was living out of my van doing odd job construction 153 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 2: around North Carolina, for North Carolina originally for a few months, 154 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 2: and I started talking to this girl down in Florida, 155 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 2: and eventually I just went down there. I was spending 156 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 2: time with her, and then I was like, come back 157 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: with me to North Carolina and we but I didn't 158 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 2: have a place to go. 159 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 3: I didn't have a house. 160 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 2: I just slept on friends couches around North Carolina. So 161 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 2: she did that with me for a few months, and 162 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 2: then we settled in a place in Asheville. 163 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 3: North Carolina. 164 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 2: And so that song is about that room that we 165 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 2: stayed in. You know, it was like eight roommates, one bathroom, 166 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 2: an old punk house. 167 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 3: It was like basically a squat house. 168 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 2: Like we split, like we split one hundred and sixty 169 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 2: bucks a month rent. She worked at a little clothing 170 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 2: shop and I worked at Domino's Pizza delivering pizzas, and 171 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 2: we just like made it work, you know, And so 172 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 2: that song, you know, she was really at that whole time, 173 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 2: I was really trying to I'd lost myself, you know, 174 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 2: within my drug problems. I didn't fracture my relationships with 175 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 2: my friends and my bandmates, but I just wasn't there. 176 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 3: I was gone. 177 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 2: And then so that song has traveled for seventeen years 178 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: through my life, through her being there and then her 179 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 2: being gone, you know, at the very beginning of us splitting, 180 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 2: and then like the years of noncommunication and then like 181 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 2: recommunicating and then being like, I don't want to sing 182 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 2: this song anymore, like if it hurts her. 183 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 3: Or if it hurts me, to really accepting. 184 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 2: In the last few years, it's been about like that 185 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 2: meaning has changed, but it's been about it like accepting 186 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 2: your past and accepting love that isn't there anymore, because 187 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 2: it was still love, you know, And that's really what 188 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 2: it means to me now, Like I can't stop myself 189 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 2: from the good memories, even if I'm in a new place, 190 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 2: if I'm in another good relationship. There was still a time, 191 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,079 Speaker 2: you know, and all the bad stuff that followed doesn't 192 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 2: take away that time and that sense of peace and 193 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 2: calm that I felt in that moment, and how important 194 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 2: that was to really the beginning of my next life, 195 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 2: you know, because that the two thousand and the beginning 196 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 2: of Future Islands was also the end of my old life. 197 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 2: And and in writing that song in that first you 198 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 2: know that was the first of Future Islands album was 199 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,839 Speaker 2: really kind of me discovering myself again. There's another song 200 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 2: on that album, Wave Like Home, called Old Friend, which 201 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 2: is literally about me looking in the mirror and like 202 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 2: like recognizing myself again after so many years of being yeah, 203 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 2: being lost of myself. 204 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 3: So the old the old Friend is me, you know. 205 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 2: Not not another person. I'm I'm I'm finding myself again. 206 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 2: So really, yeah, that it's that song is very It 207 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 2: has so much meaning, but it's so crazy that you 208 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 2: can encapsulate that in those moments and then the original 209 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 2: person or the original thought, the original feeling you're so 210 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 2: far away from that, it can still take you there. 211 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 2: It can transport you there, and then it can be 212 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 2: something that people get their own feeling from because you 213 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 2: want you want that too. I want people to whatever 214 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 2: good you can get out of our music or our 215 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: songs like and put it on your own life, Like 216 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 2: that's so positive. 217 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 3: It's art. You know, it's supposed to move with people 218 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 3: and move through people. 219 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: You said in your band Future Islands started just you 220 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: and your buddies in two thousand and six. But I 221 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 1: want to just rewind a little bit, and I want 222 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: to sort of set the stage for our listeners. You're 223 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: from North Carolina, as you mentioned. Tell me a little 224 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: bit about your childhood. Do you remember the first time 225 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: that you sang? And I wanted to know who was 226 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: encouraging you to follow your dreams? Who was it that 227 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 1: was standing behind you? 228 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 2: You know, I grew up in a really I grew 229 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 2: up in a small town eastern North Carolina. I was 230 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 2: just like a two minute walk to the shore, the sound, 231 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 2: you know, the water trap between us and the Barrier 232 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 2: Island that was out of the ocean. 233 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 3: I had my grandma right around the corner. 234 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 2: It was It's a pretty a pretty simple, I would say, 235 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 2: a pretty simple, normal childhood. But that didn't really stop 236 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 2: me from feeling weird and out of place. But you know, 237 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 2: my mom loved to sing, so she played piano. We 238 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 2: would stand around her while she played the piano with 239 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 2: sheet music and sing songs together me, my brother and her. 240 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 3: I have an older brother. It's just the two of us. 241 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,719 Speaker 2: And so my brother really was he was more of 242 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 2: the the big He was more of a ham, I 243 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 2: would say, than me even and he's still like such 244 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 2: an amazing singer, such an amazing performer and really kind 245 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 2: of my first, yeah, my first like idea of what 246 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 2: a person was because like I saw his band play 247 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 2: when I was like twelve, you know, and I did. 248 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:10,239 Speaker 3: I would sing at a young age seven eight nine. 249 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 2: Like in school for what do you call them, like 250 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 2: assemblies and then some drama stuff. But and I always 251 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 2: you know, it was like I had a really good 252 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 2: voice back then. I had this little angelic like kid's voice, 253 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 2: you know, some children just having yeah, no no cigarettes 254 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 2: back but I was like I could sing, but that 255 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 2: wasn't really something I was trying to do. And then 256 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 2: it was music hit me with hip hop, and so 257 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 2: when I was thirteen, I fell in love with rap music. 258 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 2: And then I was like I want to know all 259 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 2: about this, I want to know all about the history 260 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 2: of this. So I just started studying like and my 261 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 2: brother helped me, like gather stuff off the internet. You know, 262 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 2: we would print up like this is like the Internet 263 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety six and seven. 264 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:07,839 Speaker 1: You know, yeah, they were silent, Yeah. 265 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 3: Very slow. 266 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 2: There's not you know, there's like it's just text. You know, 267 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 2: every website is just text. And he would print up 268 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 2: these books of like how to break dance and how 269 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 2: to like graph right and the proper like spray tips 270 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 2: you need to do graffiti, and and you know, learning 271 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 2: about just the music and the history of like how 272 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 2: it came to be. 273 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 3: I was just fascinated. 274 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 2: And a lot of it was that it was so 275 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 2: foreign to me, and it also I liked that it 276 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: was like I had secret knowledge, you know, and I 277 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 2: was like, I want to write. And at the same time, 278 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 2: I was discovering poetry Carl Sandberg and Theodore RecA at 279 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 2: like twelve and thirteen, and I went through like my 280 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,959 Speaker 2: first like my first crush. And then that also that 281 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 2: just made you know, the poetry run, that made the 282 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 2: wraps run. I wanted to be a rapper, and that's 283 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 2: what when I went to college, That's what was my goal. 284 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 2: And then I met William and then we started a 285 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 2: ban and that's kind of like that's like history. 286 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 3: You know, that's just the way it goes. 287 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:12,959 Speaker 1: Just happened. 288 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 2: But yeah, but I was, Yeah, there was always a 289 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 2: safe space. Like my parents were very much. They both 290 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 2: grew up in really hard working families and worked really 291 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 2: hard and we're like the first to go to college 292 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 2: and their families and because of that, they raised their 293 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 2: sons to be artists, which they regretted later. And I 294 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 2: also regret sometimes too, because like my work ethic is 295 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 2: bad outside of my art. 296 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 3: You know, I feel I work really hard at what 297 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 3: I do. 298 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, you seem like a really hard worker to me. 299 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 2: Well, and that's it's me being hard on myself. I mean, 300 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 2: I don't know how many partners I've had to have 301 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 2: told me that, like, you know, you're allowed to rest. 302 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 2: I'm learning now. I'm learning now, But it is you know, 303 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 2: I gained that workaholic nature from my parents, and I 304 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 2: would say even more so my father, And I was 305 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 2: angry at him as a kid that he worked so hard. 306 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 2: And now I find myself as the same in a 307 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 2: similar position where I can't be happy unless I'm created 308 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 2: something and I'm a little away from that. Like I 309 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 2: think I've grown a lot in the last couple of 310 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 2: years because that's something that was said told to me 311 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 2: and then I recognized it, and then I was like, 312 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 2: I need to correct this, and I need to give 313 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 2: myself some grace to really relax at times, you know, 314 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 2: because I get off a. 315 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 3: Tour and I'm beat. 316 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 2: But my first thing is like I got off this 317 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 2: tour and I just sat down and I started writing 318 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 2: a song and it made me happy. You know, it 319 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 2: made me happy because I can move from that the crowd, 320 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 2: whether you know, the stage work and the work of 321 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 2: being on the road is very different than the creative 322 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 2: process of creating a song. That's when you get to 323 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 2: like pull something new and find who you are in 324 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 2: that moment as opposed to working through old emotions or 325 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 2: doing a performance. 326 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 3: You know, because there are. 327 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 2: Moments on stage, like what you saw is there are 328 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 2: moments of transcendence where I'm discovering new things and I'm 329 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 2: connected with the audience. And then there are times where 330 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 2: I'm like, well, I'm going to do this high kick 331 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 2: because it's going to look cool and it's for the audience, 332 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 2: you know, and that's not that's the that's the once 333 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 2: again hook people. 334 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 3: So that then you can go back into those spaces. 335 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 2: But there's the performance aspect, which is work, and then 336 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 2: there's the and then if you're lucky, you are able 337 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 2: to go into the body and find something new. 338 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: You mentioned I think it was at your concert actually, 339 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: that when you finish an album, it's this huge expression 340 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: and a release of emotions around the things that you 341 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: are going through working through in your real life at 342 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: that time. And then once the album finally comes out, 343 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: you know, when you start touring with that music, it 344 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: might be kind you might be kind of past those 345 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 1: emotions or that, you know, onto that next hurdle in 346 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: your life, but you're having to relive it all over 347 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: again night after night playing it. What's that like? I mean, 348 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: does that do you feel like that holds you back? 349 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: Or does it sort of propel you forward? 350 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 3: Uh? I mean it probably does a bit of I 351 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 3: want to say that. 352 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 2: I want to say that performing the song helps to 353 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 2: create some closures within the self. It doesn't create closure 354 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 2: with a person, but it creates closure and acceptance with 355 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 2: the self. It also a thing I found is it 356 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 2: makes you you know, when you say something you don't 357 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 2: want to say, especially if it's damning to yourself and 358 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 2: you put it on record, you are saying, I'm living 359 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 2: with this and I want everybody to know that I'm 360 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 2: you know, I can't. I can't go and tell people 361 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 2: that they need to be honest with their emotions in themselves. 362 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 3: And then me hide myself, you know what I mean. 363 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 2: And so so I push into those moments so that 364 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 2: when I get on stage and I sing it out 365 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 2: to people, then I see how it bounces back and 366 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 2: then and then I become accountable not just to myself 367 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,959 Speaker 2: but to all of these people, and then it just uh. 368 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 2: I found that it helps me to to accept things 369 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,919 Speaker 2: and just find you know. It's also about creating a 370 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 2: space of you know, I see the stage as power. 371 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 3: You know, the microphone is power, and you have you 372 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 3: can use it or lose it. I don't want that. 373 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 3: I shouldn't have rhymed that. 374 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 2: And so I think it is like, if you can 375 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 2: be vulnerable from a point of from a place of power, 376 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 2: then you can you can change. 377 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 3: You can create change. 378 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 2: Because if I can get up there and be and 379 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 2: and cry for you and then smile it off and 380 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 2: be like I'm okay, we're okay together, then you you 381 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 2: can break into people's and what their expectation of what 382 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 2: people are. 383 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 3: Supposed to be, what people are supposed to do. 384 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: You know, I feel like you're talking about like it's 385 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,959 Speaker 1: sort of like a reciprocal release and connection with your 386 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: audience that it's mutually beneficial for you and for the 387 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: people listening or watching. 388 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 389 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think I even answer your question. Sorry, 390 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 2: I'm real tangential. 391 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: Yeah that's okay, Yeah, that's okay. But you know, I 392 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: was just because I think, like, you know, you wrote 393 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: that song a while ago and you're still playing it 394 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: live night after night, especially when you're touring. Yeah, you know, 395 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: because I know you have to have grown and changed 396 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: in the interim of you know, between writing it and 397 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: performing it, Like there's a lot that happens to a person, 398 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: and you know, there's so much like a different person 399 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: at that point, but you have to go back to 400 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: that those feelings and to that moment to get that 401 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 1: condra up, that true emotion to deliver that. You know. 402 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it can be hard to like, you know, 403 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 2: my my partner now, you know, I've been like is 404 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 2: it okay? You know, because because it's and I've talked 405 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 2: to you know, old partners about like, is it strange 406 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 2: to have to hear these kinds of songs that are 407 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 2: about past relationships. But you know, they also they come 408 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 2: you know, they understand like it's just your art, because 409 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 2: I am, like it's it's art in the end. At 410 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 2: first it's really heavy emotion, and then the story is 411 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 2: get encapsulated like it is it is something, And I 412 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 2: don't know if that's good or bad, but it is 413 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 2: like the singing of the songs and creating that acceptance, 414 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 2: it also puts callouses on them, you know, it puts 415 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 2: callouses on those emotions and those things, and it encapsulates 416 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 2: them in those moments. 417 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 3: And maybe in some ways that's negative because. 418 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 2: It it changes the It can change the memory, you 419 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 2: know if you if you just remember that this thing 420 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 2: in this way. And that's why I think why it's 421 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,120 Speaker 2: important to be reflective and see how things move. 422 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: I think you said in some interview that after one 423 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 1: of your breakups you started therapy. Yeah, how were you 424 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: when you started therapy? 425 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 2: I would have been I was thirty seven. Yes, this 426 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 2: was the end of the end of twenty one. And 427 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 2: I mean to be fair, like I had been like 428 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 2: that that relationship had been really had been really positive. 429 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 2: In my life, and it, you know, it diminished through 430 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 2: the pandemic in that space because my partner was overseas, 431 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 2: my ex was overseas, and we just didn't we weren't 432 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 2: able to get to one another for a really long 433 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,959 Speaker 2: time in it. And it never popped back like when 434 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 2: the pandemic lifted. 435 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 3: It was the feelings. 436 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 2: Were gone and she or her feelings were gone and 437 00:21:59,280 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 2: she let me go. 438 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 3: And then you just have to deal with it. 439 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 2: But because of that relationship and the positivity of it 440 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 2: and the love that I felt through it and knew 441 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,239 Speaker 2: was real, it wasn't like does you know, was it 442 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 2: not real? It wasn't one of those It was like, no, no, no, 443 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 2: you guys had a real thing. And then sometimes stuff 444 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 2: just happens and there are things you can't control and 445 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 2: people and people change, and you know, feelings, our feelings 446 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 2: are fluid and you can't really you have to look 447 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 2: after yourselves and be good to yourself and move forward 448 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 2: as best you can. But it was in coming home, 449 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 2: I was like, I need to find a therapist immediately 450 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 2: before I break down, before I you know, relapse into 451 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 2: drugs or drinking too heavily. 452 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 3: I drink, but you know, just going down a bad 453 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 3: path like like drugs, sex, just. 454 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 2: Like binge, eating, you know, any of these things. And 455 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 2: I was able to find somebody. But even in that time, 456 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 2: I was very it was very home and I think 457 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 2: it's because that even though I was hurting from losing 458 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 2: the relationship, the relationship also it had a positive effect 459 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 2: on me. 460 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 3: You know. 461 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 2: I feel like the first relationship where I really had 462 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 2: a true mutual love in my life. So I was 463 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,159 Speaker 2: able to grow in that, you know, and I was older, 464 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 2: of course, you know, was in my I was in 465 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 2: my thirties already, right, I. 466 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 3: Wasn't just some young punk, no. 467 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: But it takes that pain sometimes to get to that growth, 468 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: and there's no way of getting around it. You just 469 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: got to go through it. I mean, doing the work. 470 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 1: When you know, when we talk about going to therapy 471 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: and talk about the work that we have to do, 472 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: our personal inner work whatever, it's scary and keeps people 473 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: from seeking therapy, I think, and you know, I think 474 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 1: a lot of people are just as great afraid to 475 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: do the work. I mean, if you were to say 476 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: to someone listening right now who maybe hasn't tried therapy, 477 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 1: like what would you would you encourage another person to 478 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 1: do therapy. 479 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 3: Oh definitely. 480 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 2: I mean I think the world could use it, and 481 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,199 Speaker 2: even if just to I think, even if just to 482 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 2: have I really think of it as a reflecting point. 483 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 2: And you know, different therapists are different, uh, and in 484 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 2: the ways that they they do what they do, and 485 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 2: you can find people that specialize. Sometimes you just have 486 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 2: a bad fit and that can be really off putting, 487 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 2: you know. I Luckily I'm with the person that I 488 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 2: started with and we have a really good rapport and 489 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 2: really like the biggest thing that he does for me 490 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 2: is just remind me of what I've said in the past. 491 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 3: So I'll tell him, like, you know, I'll tell him 492 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 3: this is what's going on and this is how I feel. 493 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 2: And he's like, well, you said something completely different through 494 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 2: three months ago, or you know, I think this is 495 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 2: what I need. And it's like, well, you said this, 496 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 2: are you are you feeling or have you changed your mind? 497 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 3: Or you are you just feeling anxious? You know? 498 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 2: Are you you know what's happening to make you feel 499 00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 2: this way? 500 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 1: So he's like holding up mirror for you. 501 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, So that for me, that's what therapy is is. 502 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 2: It's been beneficial is really holding up a mirror to 503 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 2: me so that I can sit in my feelings again, 504 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 2: which is the thing that he's since the beginning. He's like, 505 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 2: you have to figure out how to sit in your 506 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 2: emotion instead of instead of reacting really irrationally or rashly 507 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 2: is the word I was trying to use, like, you know, 508 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,919 Speaker 2: very quickly, hastily to just because I'm an emotional person 509 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 2: and so I just like act and that can lead 510 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 2: to Yeah, that can lead to fractures and relationships and 511 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 2: friendships if you don't take a breath, you know, like like, 512 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 2: don't write the email back today, write or write it 513 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 2: and put it in the draft. I've done that a 514 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 2: lot in the last few years, and that's been really 515 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 2: good practice. And then I'm like, I'm glad I didn't 516 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 2: say that, because. 517 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: I am a kind of like you've been through it, 518 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: Like you've talked a lot about, you know, your life experiences, 519 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: not only through your music, but you know, in interviews 520 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: and stuff, and you've talked about your drug addiction and 521 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: about your challenges with mental health and how you've fought 522 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: you know, your way from being a teen with suicidal 523 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,719 Speaker 1: ideations and you had you filled voids with substances and 524 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: like you said, eating all the things, sex, eating, doing 525 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: everything you could to stuff things down and not deal 526 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: with them. But I know you've been some really dark places. 527 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: But from what I gather through not just your music, 528 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: but from the research that I've done on you, like 529 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 1: a creeper, I feel like you're really very intelligent, like 530 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 1: an emotionally intelligent man, which is that's what the work 531 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 1: is about. 532 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 2: Yes, and I thank you for saying that is something 533 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 2: that I It's one of those weird things where I 534 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 2: felt like that since I was a kid. So my 535 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 2: father is a he's a divorce attorney, and my mother 536 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 2: runs the office. So it's just the two of them, 537 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 2: and they're so interesting because you know, they to this day, 538 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 2: they still they wake up together, they go to work together, 539 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 2: they work together, they come home together, and they're still 540 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 2: just like pinching each other's asses, and they're just real cute. 541 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:18,919 Speaker 3: They're just cute, funny people. 542 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 2: And so I come from this really loving relationship. But 543 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 2: also I was in this in this office for so 544 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 2: many years of my life. Up until probably was like 545 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 2: fourteen or thirteen or fourteen, I'd probably stopped going to 546 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 2: the office after school, and I would hear so much 547 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:37,640 Speaker 2: emotion coming. 548 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 3: Through those walls. I would hear people crying, I would 549 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 3: hear people yelling. 550 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 2: I'd hear you know, I'd hear laughter, you know, and this, 551 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 2: and I couldn't make out what was being said. It 552 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 2: was just that who you know, like Charlie Brown, Charlie 553 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 2: Brown mom voice over the phone. But but I could 554 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 2: feel the emotion. And I don't know, Sorry, parents, But 555 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,439 Speaker 2: I don't think it was good for me, you know, 556 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 2: I think. 557 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 3: It was actually. 558 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 2: I think it was maybe an over exposure for both 559 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 2: me and my brother. 560 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 3: But I think it made me. 561 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 2: Extremely empathetic from a young age and like like really 562 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:21,439 Speaker 2: trying to to understand people or to just try to 563 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 2: I don't know, Just like I do give my dad credit. 564 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:27,959 Speaker 2: My dad's the kind of guy who would just like 565 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 2: I would walk to him to the post office every 566 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 2: day to drop off mail and pick up mail, and 567 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 2: it's just a little like quarter mile walk, and every 568 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 2: day he would he was just like the one time 569 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 2: in the daytime I could hang out with my dad, 570 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 2: so I would like always go on the walk, but 571 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 2: it would end up just like him at the post 572 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 2: office talking to some person for thirty minutes and then 573 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 2: we would leave and every time I'd be like, who 574 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 2: is that? And he's like, I have no idea, And 575 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 2: I was like what is happening? Because I'm also like 576 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 2: I want to hang out with my dad, but he's 577 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 2: hanging out. 578 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 3: With a stranger. 579 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 2: But that thing also taught me about the way you 580 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 2: treat everybody in giving everyone this like respect and like 581 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 2: I said, you know, a small town vibe. And my 582 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 2: dad really taught me how to how to you know, 583 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 2: you talk to the judge the same way you talk 584 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 2: to the janitor type thing. 585 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 3: And he literally has said that to me. 586 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 2: You know, there there are lessons in that in that 587 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 2: office that I learned. It was also like learning to 588 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 2: like take care of myself and play with myself, make 589 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 2: my own games, you know, you know, playing in the woods, 590 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 2: you know so much. 591 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 3: So much of those the songs. 592 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 2: Of futur Rounds are really about those places around that office. 593 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,239 Speaker 1: There's something though about that time, whether you were with 594 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: your brother in the office or you were out exploring 595 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: the woods or whatever. That solitude and that like presence, 596 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: just being with yourself, but knowing that you're just this 597 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: big and there's so much around you. You know that 598 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: it really makes you think on a deeper level. I think, 599 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: and really I can I can hear that in your lyrics. 600 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: I can definitely feel that from the music that you 601 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: guys make. And that's irreplaceable, Like you can't learn that, 602 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,959 Speaker 1: you can't. You know. That's that amazing exposure you had 603 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: as a young person. 604 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. 605 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 2: I mean, it's interesting, you know so much of me 606 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 2: and Garrett's friendship. You know, I have to the words 607 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 2: don't have. The music is the bed that allows me 608 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 2: to dream, you know what I mean. And so the 609 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 2: guys are creating this music that isn't that is very emotional. 610 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 2: It's not like I'm just implanting an emotion. It's like 611 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 2: the things that some of the sounds that Garrett uses, 612 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 2: the way where I'm like bows or like gets into 613 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 2: these deep sounds like that remind me of the sea. 614 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 3: You know. 615 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 2: They take me to a place that allows me to reflect, 616 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 2: but takes me to a place to reflect. But me 617 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 2: and Garrett, you know, I know that we were really 618 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 2: I think a lot of the reason that we became 619 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 2: friends was because we both didn't feel that the world 620 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 2: made sense and we felt like kind of isolated and 621 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 2: then we kind of found each other. But we also 622 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 2: both have that the darkness of spirit which we are fighting. 623 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,719 Speaker 2: And Garrett's done a better job in his life and 624 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 2: he's you know, he has a beautiful family and and it. 625 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 3: Just makes me so so happy. 626 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 2: But I we still talk about it, you know, and 627 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 2: understanding like where our friendship came from, and that those 628 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 2: things don't go away. You know, we deal, We learn 629 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 2: to deal and understand our emotions and those feelings. And 630 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 2: then when finding a friend or even communicating with a 631 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 2: stranger sometimes then we're we break out of isolation. 632 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 3: To have that place. 633 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 2: But for me, when Garrett in particular writes a sad 634 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 2: song or I shouldn't say a sad song, but a 635 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 2: song that is imbued with a deep emotion, I understand 636 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 2: it in a different way. You know, there's so much 637 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 2: to be said for the friendship of the three of 638 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 2: us and now the four of us that really that 639 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 2: is the spirit of the music. 640 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: Can we talk about life on the road for a second. Yeah, 641 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: does it suck as bad as I imagine it to suck? 642 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: Because for me, like when I go away to work, 643 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: I can really easily lose my grasp with where I've 644 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: come from or the life that I've just left for 645 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: those weeks months, whatever it is. How do you stay 646 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: grounded when you're on the road and what do you 647 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: do to take care of yourself? 648 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 2: I mean it's yeah, the road is not for everyone, 649 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 2: and it gets less a healing the. 650 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 3: Older you get. 651 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 2: The road was great when I was twenty six, you know, 652 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 2: and I was free and I didn't have to call 653 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 2: home or you know, call someone at home, and I 654 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 2: didn't have to miss somebody. 655 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 3: When you're missing somebody, it makes it hard. 656 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 2: And if you have somebody who doesn't understand, it makes 657 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 2: it harder. 658 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 3: You know. 659 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 2: My partner now is in the entertainment industry, and so 660 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 2: they give me a lot of grace and they understand 661 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 2: because they also have to go and. 662 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 3: Do work that but they are also a person. 663 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 2: At the beginning of our relationship was like, I feel 664 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 2: you disassociating from me, and I need you to communicate more. 665 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 2: And luckily, well I'm proud of myself. But within that 666 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 2: time of hearing that and then like fighting against it 667 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 2: a bit and to then recognizing and then working through 668 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 2: it and then going on tour again to prove myself 669 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 2: because you can't prove yourself. Say, at the end of 670 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 2: a tour, you're like, well, now I can't prove that 671 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 2: I'm not disassociating. 672 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 3: Or is over. 673 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 2: So then you you come home, you reset, and you're like, 674 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 2: I'm going to do better, and then you know, since 675 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,760 Speaker 2: then you know, and she's said to me many times, 676 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 2: you know, I see that you've changed that behavior and 677 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 2: that work, and you've made me feel secure. 678 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:16,839 Speaker 3: You know, you make me feel secure now. 679 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 2: And it's really just I think in those things, I 680 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 2: mean I would rather have, I shouldn't say. 681 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 3: I shouldn't say I would rather have. It's hard to say. 682 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 2: What I was going to say was I like having 683 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 2: someone to talk to and I don't want to be 684 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 2: you know, being on the being on the road single 685 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 2: is easy because you don't have to call home, but 686 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 2: it's also really lonely, and you know, maybe maybe you do. 687 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,840 Speaker 2: You know in the old days, you might get some 688 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 2: kisses one night, but you just feel like you just 689 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:50,839 Speaker 2: leave again, You just. 690 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:51,959 Speaker 3: Leave your whole life. 691 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 2: Your whole life is gone, you know at times, and 692 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 2: it's really easy to get lost. 693 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 3: So I feel so. 694 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 2: Much more comforted and comfortable when I have someone to 695 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 2: talk to about what I'm doing, or I get a 696 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 2: reflection of, or I get you know, to find out 697 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,399 Speaker 2: what's happening at home. It makes me feel like I'm 698 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 2: not completely gone from home. So, you know, it helps 699 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 2: to have a partner who understands and is willing to 700 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 2: work through those issues with you, which I'm lucky to have. 701 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:24,439 Speaker 2: But yeah, you know, you have to find routines. That's 702 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 2: what's helped me recently. You know, my routine is basically, 703 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 2: wake up at ten am. You know, take a shower, 704 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 2: shave if I got to take a walk, a coffee walk, 705 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 2: and then back to venue, reconvene, set up, do the 706 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 2: sound check, and then you have and then I'll nap. 707 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 2: I'll have dinner and then I'll nap from like five 708 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:51,280 Speaker 2: to six. Wake up, get dressed, start stretching. 709 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 3: Do the sketching. 710 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: I like this. 711 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:57,839 Speaker 2: You gotta strutch my my body is. I'm doing good now, 712 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 2: but I have a lot of body pains from what 713 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 2: I do. 714 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 1: So yeah, you saw. Yeah, I had to go take 715 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: a nap after I watched. 716 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 3: You do it stretching. 717 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 2: Do the show, come off stage, you know, have a 718 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 2: couple of drinks, have some laughs, and then go to 719 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 2: sleep sometime around like one or two on the bus 720 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 2: and then repeat. Yeah. 721 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: I mean just staying in a relationship under those kind 722 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,879 Speaker 1: of circumstances, while you're having your personal growth and your 723 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 1: partners having their personal growth, it can be extraordinarily difficult 724 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: to stay connected. I understand what you're saying about that 725 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: it feels better to do that with somebody that's on 726 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: the same page as you, because you're both committed to 727 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: taking care of one another even though you're apart. 728 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,720 Speaker 2: Yes, and you understand the distance, like understanding the distance, 729 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:48,760 Speaker 2: understanding the work. 730 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 3: Those things really help. 731 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,240 Speaker 1: Last year, I think it was last year I started 732 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 1: watching The Changeling because I wanted to check out your 733 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: big acting debut just recently. Yeah, no, you did. This 734 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: last year was for Apple TV, right the Change, and 735 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: so yeah, I just started. I'm on episode two. I 736 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: haven't gotten to your character got me yet. But how 737 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: did that opportunity come? I mean, that's like the ultimate 738 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,760 Speaker 1: I choose me moment. Just decide to do something completely 739 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: different and scary and jump into a completely different world 740 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: like that. 741 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 2: Well, it came about because of it came about because of. 742 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,799 Speaker 3: A future Island show. And I mean I'll tell the 743 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 3: whole story. 744 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 2: So the writer of the show came to see us 745 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 2: at the end of twenty twenty one. She had written 746 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 2: the show. It was sold, but they were just they 747 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,760 Speaker 2: were on the back half of casting the main roles. 748 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 2: So they had most of the main roles, but there 749 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 2: was one role, my role, it was not yet cast. 750 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 2: Kelly came out of the show. Kelly Marcel was the 751 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 2: writer of the show and also the showrunner, and then 752 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 2: she you know, we're playing and she he's just like 753 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 2: mesmerized at the show. Like about halfway through the show, 754 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 2: I start, you know, like ripping in my face and 755 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:09,799 Speaker 2: going into these growls more. 756 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 3: And she turns to her friend and is like, is 757 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,800 Speaker 3: he the guy? Is he? Like? Could he play William Wheeler? 758 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 2: And her friend, who I think I think she had 759 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 2: read the book but had to read the scripts, was like. 760 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 3: I think I think he could. I think he could 761 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 3: do it. 762 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 2: So, yeah, the show was back at the beginning of October, 763 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 2: and now we're to February. I get a message request 764 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 2: on on Instagram from Kelly and she's like, Hi, I'm Kelly. 765 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 2: I've you know, these are my things that I've done 766 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 2: in the past. This is who I am, and I'm 767 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 2: writing the show and I've been trying to contact you 768 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 2: through your manager and I'm not hearing anything. 769 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 3: Are you interested in acting? 770 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 2: And I'm just like, oh, this still it's real. So 771 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 2: we talked through Instagram. I kept repeating like, you know, 772 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 2: I'm not an actor, right, and She's like, I think 773 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:00,839 Speaker 2: you can do it. 774 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 3: Then on a Thursday, we had our first zoom. 775 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 2: And I was like, I think maybe I can do it, 776 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 2: you know, and and she was like you She she 777 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,479 Speaker 2: was really on my side. She was like, I really 778 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 2: want you in this, and I think if we if 779 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,359 Speaker 2: we can make good tapes, I can make a good 780 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 2: I can make I can pitch it and we can 781 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 2: do it. Once Kelly had once she had the director 782 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 2: and the casting director. Then they they went to the studio. 783 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 2: But but I had to I had to make my own. 784 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 1: Uh. 785 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,760 Speaker 2: I had to go in and read with the casting director, 786 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 2: who was really great. But I've I'm not nervous, Like 787 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 2: I'm not a nervous person, but that I was so 788 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,359 Speaker 2: nervous that first reading I was. 789 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:47,399 Speaker 3: It was I was like, this is not good. 790 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,600 Speaker 1: You've never this is something you've never done before. Of 791 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: course you were. 792 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 3: Nervous, yeah, but it was it was raw, it was 793 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 3: in there, but it was wrong. So I read for them. 794 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 3: They were like, we're gonna get behind this. 795 00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 2: They they pitched me, but they were like, you got 796 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 2: to come back in a week and do it again 797 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,239 Speaker 2: on camera and there. But they were also like, but 798 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 2: you need to you also need to meet with an 799 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 2: acting coach, Like we see you have the raw, but 800 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,439 Speaker 2: you should meet with somebody. So they set Kelly set 801 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:14,960 Speaker 2: me up with this guy, Larry Moss. Do you know 802 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 2: Larry Moss? 803 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:21,319 Speaker 3: I love that guy. Yeah, I still uncle Larry. Yeah. 804 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 3: We had like we did six six sessions. 805 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,719 Speaker 2: They're just like one hour sessions over zoom, and it 806 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:31,720 Speaker 2: completely changed my whole It just changed everything in my body, 807 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 2: Like he released all my fear and stress in dealing 808 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,319 Speaker 2: with like this thing, and it was really simple. Like 809 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 2: I to this day, I still want to talk to 810 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,319 Speaker 2: him again and be like, did you mean what you 811 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 2: said or you just did you just like blow the 812 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,279 Speaker 2: perfect amount of smoke up my ass to like, but 813 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 2: they went to my. 814 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 3: Head because the first thing he said to me was like, look. 815 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,200 Speaker 2: I've you know, the first session, first thing, just like 816 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,839 Speaker 2: I've been watching videos of performances, and I've watched a 817 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 2: ton of interviews of your and you're an actor, You're 818 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,799 Speaker 2: just like, don't you don't trust that you are? So 819 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 2: we just have to get you to trust what you're doing. 820 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,320 Speaker 2: If your head itches, scratch it, you know, if there's. 821 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 1: Something, But do you have the bug? 822 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 2: Now? I would like to act again, but but I 823 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,960 Speaker 2: never That's why I told you, like you guys were 824 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,279 Speaker 2: the first ones to find my secret email that I had, 825 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 2: so like the show came out, I got really great 826 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 2: reviews for my performance from some big publications and then 827 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:28,720 Speaker 2: but nothing ever happened. 828 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,200 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, well, no, no, I think every 829 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:36,240 Speaker 1: you know, everything happens for a reason. Everything, no matter 830 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,720 Speaker 1: how awful it feels in the moment, it all leads 831 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 1: to the next opportunity. Even if it's scary, if it 832 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:44,920 Speaker 1: doesn't look like an opportunity, or if you don't think 833 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,320 Speaker 1: it's going to go anywhere, it all eventually works itself 834 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:52,239 Speaker 1: out in your best interest. And that's the beautiful thing 835 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 1: about life. And I love that you found a new 836 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,759 Speaker 1: passion for another art form and you know, you sound 837 00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 1: like you feel like you're good at it, and I 838 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 1: can't wait to watch it so. 839 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 3: Get you back. 840 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,479 Speaker 1: No, I mean I'm really excited for you. I think, 841 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,399 Speaker 1: you know, the sky's the limit for what you can 842 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,320 Speaker 1: do and where you can push yourself. 843 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. 844 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,720 Speaker 2: It was a really cool It was something I needed 845 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:18,759 Speaker 2: in that moment to ye to a new challenge and 846 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 2: something to make me feel to feel positive about myself. 847 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,080 Speaker 3: But just to learn something new. It was really it 848 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,040 Speaker 3: was really cool. It was also really trying. It's a 849 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:28,720 Speaker 3: hard job. 850 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:33,439 Speaker 2: I mean, I give you props because there's actually there's 851 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,719 Speaker 2: similarities in the job, which is the it's the hurry. 852 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:38,000 Speaker 3: Up and way. 853 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 2: But but my you know, it was it was pretty chill. 854 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,759 Speaker 2: But in the beginning it was really frustrating. I had 855 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 2: to find I had to find peace in it, and 856 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,839 Speaker 2: I drove Kelly crazy sometimes with that too. 857 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,920 Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad that you know. I'm glad that it 858 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,320 Speaker 1: worked out for you, and I'm excited for your future 859 00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,120 Speaker 1: whatever happens with it. Before I let you go, I 860 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:03,960 Speaker 1: want I ask everybody this, Damnuel Herring, what was your 861 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:05,720 Speaker 1: last I choose me moment? 862 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,239 Speaker 2: I ate an extra large pepperoni pizza about three days ago. 863 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 2: I eat the whole thing, probably in about ten minutes 864 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:17,359 Speaker 2: was really good. 865 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:21,399 Speaker 1: Well, extra large in ten minutes, Okay, I can do it. 866 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:22,960 Speaker 1: How'd you feel? 867 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 2: I felt the I felt the warm rush of blood 868 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:29,800 Speaker 2: through my course and through my body. 869 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,520 Speaker 1: I was just like, I mean, you know, people usually 870 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,719 Speaker 1: give me like answers that are a little different than that, 871 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 1: but I say, I really like this choice, the large 872 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:40,520 Speaker 1: extra extra large pizza. 873 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,680 Speaker 2: It's like, it's okay, you don't have to you don't 874 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,439 Speaker 2: have to diet today, you don't have to exercise, you 875 00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,520 Speaker 2: get to relax. Yep, because I don't get to eat 876 00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 2: pizza on the road because it destroys my voice. It 877 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,760 Speaker 2: comes me up and gives me reflex, it burns my throat, 878 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,719 Speaker 2: so like when I get home, it's kind of a thing. 879 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,439 Speaker 2: And I waited and I was like, you know what, 880 00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,239 Speaker 2: maybe not this time. Maybe maybe I'm going to have 881 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,719 Speaker 2: better habits when I go home. And then a couple 882 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:11,279 Speaker 2: of days went by and I was like, I'm gonna 883 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:11,880 Speaker 2: get that pizza. 884 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:12,160 Speaker 3: Now. 885 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,480 Speaker 1: It's all in moderation, and you know what, if it 886 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,840 Speaker 1: feels good, do it. But it's all moderation. But I 887 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,839 Speaker 1: love that. It sounds like you are more in touch 888 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,400 Speaker 1: with like how to take care of yourself and just 889 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,280 Speaker 1: you know, in those those dark times, you get stronger 890 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,759 Speaker 1: and stronger how to take care of you, you know, 891 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,400 Speaker 1: And I think I'm just happy to see you on 892 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,680 Speaker 1: that journey and on that right path because you're so 893 00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:39,400 Speaker 1: so talented. 894 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,840 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. I'm so excited about writing again. 895 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:48,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, waiting, we'll be listening. Yeah, everybody, you've got to 896 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,440 Speaker 1: check out Future Islands. Take it from me. 897 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,279 Speaker 3: Thank you, Jinny, I really appreciate it. 898 00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,280 Speaker 1: Samuel is so interesting. I have been such a huge 899 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,080 Speaker 1: fan of his music, so that was so great to 900 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:04,920 Speaker 1: get to know him on a more personal level. And 901 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,800 Speaker 1: I hope if you didn't know about his band Future 902 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,760 Speaker 1: Islands before this, you will go check them out now. 903 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:15,640 Speaker 1: The music is transformational as we continue to choose ourselves 904 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,719 Speaker 1: each week, I want to challenge you this week to 905 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:23,800 Speaker 1: consider something. Should you be getting expert help or guidance. 906 00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,399 Speaker 1: We talked about this with Samuel his choice to get 907 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,080 Speaker 1: into therapy in the world of difference that it has 908 00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:33,200 Speaker 1: made for him, and therapy isn't just for people that 909 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 1: have experienced major trauma. Maybe you're struggling with your work 910 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:41,520 Speaker 1: life balance, or maybe you want to learn to set 911 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:45,040 Speaker 1: better boundaries I don't know. Give it some thought this week, 912 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,160 Speaker 1: and I just want to encourage you to think about it, 913 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:52,839 Speaker 1: to seek expert help. If you are feeling unsettled in 914 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,280 Speaker 1: any area of your life. This is your gentle reminder 915 00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,480 Speaker 1: to choose you. Thanks for listening to I Choose Me, 916 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,399 Speaker 1: and check out all our social links in our show notes, 917 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,000 Speaker 1: rate and review, and give us some messages of love. 918 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,239 Speaker 1: Use the hashtag I Choose Me. I will be here 919 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,719 Speaker 1: next week. I hope you choose to be here too,