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Speaker 1: Cable news is ripping us apart, dividing the nation, making

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Speaker 1: it impossible to function as a society and to know

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Speaker 1: what is true and what is false. The good news

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Speaker 1: is that they're failing and they know it. That is

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Speaker 1: why we're building something new. Be part of creating a new, better, healthier,

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Speaker 1: and more trustworthy mainstream by becoming a Breaking Points Premium

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Speaker 1: member today at breakingpoints dot com. Your hard earned money

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Speaker 1: is going to help us build for the midterms and

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Speaker 1: the upcoming presidential election so we can provide unparalleled coverage

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Speaker 1: of what is sure to be one of the most

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Speaker 1: pivotal moments in American history. So what are you waiting for?

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Speaker 1: Go to Breakingpoints dot com to help us out time

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Speaker 1: now for our weekly partnership segment with the Lever. And

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Speaker 1: joining us for that activity is David Zarota, founder of

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Speaker 1: that outlet. Great to see you, David, great to see you.

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Speaker 1: First of all, congrats on the new podcast. It's fantastic.

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Speaker 1: Before I forget just plug that. Where can people find it?

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Speaker 1: What are you focusing on this week? Thank you? Thanks

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Speaker 1: for saying that. It's a levernews dot com slash podcast.

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Speaker 1: Today we did a deep dive into the fed stuff,

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Speaker 1: saying his top goal is to quote get wages down,

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Speaker 1: kind of go into why that's bad and how interest

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Speaker 1: rates accomplish the goal of hurting workers. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's extremely That might be the most central topic in

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Speaker 1: terms of our economy right now, but you're also focused

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Speaker 1: on the longer picture with some new reporting and analysis.

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Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and put this tear sheet up on

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Speaker 1: the screen about what might happen post midterms if history

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Speaker 1: repeats itself. You say the austerity push is a repeat

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Speaker 1: of history, and you know, you sort of point to

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Speaker 1: the idea that this austerity mindset is back after Biden

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Speaker 1: rejected it at the beginning of the administration, and that

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Speaker 1: we've been to this play before under the Obama administration.

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Speaker 1: So take us through your analysis here. Yeah, So, Lindsey

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Speaker 1: Graham made some headlines this week when he said that

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Speaker 1: we have to do quote unquote entitlement reform. And we

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Speaker 1: all know what that phrase means. It means cut social

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Speaker 1: security and Medicare. And look, the Democratic Party, the DNC,

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Speaker 1: President Biden, the DSCC, everywhere, they all freaked out and

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Speaker 1: said this is horrible and this is what's going to

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Speaker 1: happen after the election. This is what Republicans will try

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Speaker 1: to do, so essentially they tried to weaponize it to

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Speaker 1: make an election argument for the midterms. The issue, though,

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Speaker 1: is is that Lindsey Graham is airing rhetoric that comes

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Speaker 1: straight out of what happened after the twenty ten midterm

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Speaker 1: disaster for Democrats. So there's one of two ways you

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Speaker 1: can look at this. You can look at the Democrats

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Speaker 1: now pushing back against what Lindsay Graham said and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: maybe the party has had a change of heart. Or

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Speaker 1: you can look at what's going on and say, uh oh,

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Speaker 1: the last time there was a midterm disaster for the Democrats,

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Speaker 1: when Joe Biden was Vice president, the Obama administration pushed

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Speaker 1: forward with a commission to try to cut social Security

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Speaker 1: to try to show its bipartisan bona fides. And you

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Speaker 1: can imagine a situation where after a bad midterm election,

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden, a guy who has pushed for Social Security

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Speaker 1: and Medicare cuts for most of his adult life, you

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Speaker 1: can imagine him saying, look, I got to move to

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Speaker 1: the quote unquote center. People like Lindsay Graham want to

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Speaker 1: cut Social Security and Medicare, and here I am. That's

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Speaker 1: what we're going to do. So a reminder of that history,

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Speaker 1: to remember, not to repeat that history. You in your

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Speaker 1: previous work did a lot of research into Joe Biden's

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Speaker 1: past record, and I think you knew a lot of

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Speaker 1: that even before he did that research. Just remind folks,

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Speaker 1: you know what, over the course of his career, what

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Speaker 1: positions has he taken with regards to sort of austerity politics. Look,

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden has always been, up until very recently, a

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Speaker 1: politician who would always essentially position himself as I'm not

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Speaker 1: a traditional liberal. I can take on my own parties

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Speaker 1: voters from the right. There's floor speeches from the Senate

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Speaker 1: where he is bragging about pushing to freeze funding for

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Speaker 1: social Security and Medicare. Into his presidential campaign two thousand

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Speaker 1: and seven, he was floating the idea of quote unquote

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Speaker 1: entitlement reform. So, in other words, a guy with a

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Speaker 1: very long history of austerity politics and positioning himself as

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Speaker 1: a quote unquote serious Democrat who can work with Republicans

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Speaker 1: to reduce spending on social safety net programs. Now, again,

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Speaker 1: the problem is is that if they lose the midterm,

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Speaker 1: the Democrats, if they lose the midterms, the Republicans will definitely,

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Speaker 1: that's what Lindsay Graham did this week. Definitely seem like

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Speaker 1: they are going to expect the Biben administration to try

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Speaker 1: to work with them on that project. And we know

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Speaker 1: from the history that the last time a Democratic president

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Speaker 1: was in that position, that's exactly what they tried to do.

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Speaker 1: I think this does connect with another piece that you

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Speaker 1: were looking at, and go ahead and put that second

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Speaker 1: tearsheet up on the screen. Another piece that you have

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Speaker 1: on recently about the FED, and you say, here j

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Speaker 1: powllas Wall Street paced skyrocket while targeting workers' wages, because

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Speaker 1: there's a very compelling argument to make that the Biden

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Speaker 1: administration is already embracing sort of austerity politics because effectively,

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Speaker 1: his primary response to the inflation that is giving working

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Speaker 1: class people, you know, a pay cut week after week

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Speaker 1: after week, is to say, hey, Fed, go and hike

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Speaker 1: the interest rates. You guys, take care of it. Now.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of different ways that you could

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Speaker 1: deal with inflation. That particular way basically means taking a

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Speaker 1: sledgehammer to people's bank accounts, and as Powell says, you know,

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Speaker 1: his priority to get people's wages down, so maybe you're

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Speaker 1: going to curb inflation, but you're also cutting people's wages.

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Speaker 1: So how is that ultimately a better situation? Well, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, there are many things you can do

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Speaker 1: to deal with inflation, and it's an ideological question at

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Speaker 1: a certain level. I mean, you could tax the rich,

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Speaker 1: take money out of circulation that way, you could reduce

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Speaker 1: the defense budget. You could crack down on corporate profiteering,

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Speaker 1: close tax loopholes like the private equity tax loopholes. You

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Speaker 1: could do all of those things. Or you could raise

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Speaker 1: interest rates, which effectively harms homeowners. It can harm it

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Speaker 1: can harm wage earners most importantly because it trickles down,

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Speaker 1: makes money harder to borrow and the like. So you're

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Speaker 1: choosing how to deal with inflation. That choice is, well,

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Speaker 1: who were you siding with? And the Fed? Look, the

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Speaker 1: Fed has one very big blunt instrument, which is interest

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Speaker 1: rate hikes, and the Biden administration has not really pushed

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Speaker 1: for in an aggressive way some of the other things.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's done some things on the margins, but

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Speaker 1: it's also constrained by Congress. So it's a really terrible situation.

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Speaker 1: And I think, look, I think the smoking gun here

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned J. Powell has the ability to reduce

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Speaker 1: Wall Street pay on the books in the law, he

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Speaker 1: has the ability to put a rule forward to, for instance,

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Speaker 1: bring down Wall Street bonuses. He's refused to do that

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Speaker 1: and instead is focusing on you using interest rate hikes

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Speaker 1: in a way that would harm rank and file workers pay.

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Speaker 1: So I think through all of these things, what we're

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Speaker 1: seeing is that the Biden administration, really the federal government,

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Speaker 1: including the FED, they're essentially screaming the quiet part out loud.

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Speaker 1: They're making clear who they're going to side with in

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Speaker 1: dealing with inflation. I mean, they said it as clear

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Speaker 1: as they could. They want to bring your wages down.

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Speaker 1: That is ultimately their goal. And there's just an unwillingness,

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Speaker 1: a lack of creativity to kind of think outside of

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Speaker 1: that Wall Street centric bubble from the Biden administration. Certainly,

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Speaker 1: and let me add what one thing just to add

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Speaker 1: to go back to what we were talking about with

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Speaker 1: Medicare and Social Security, don't be surprised if after the

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Speaker 1: midterm elections there is now an inflation they make an

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Speaker 1: inflation argument about the supposed need to cut those programs.

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Speaker 1: That's what you know they will say, we need to

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Speaker 1: cut Medicare and Social Security because of inflation, again taking

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Speaker 1: the side of the gde oligarchy to say we have

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Speaker 1: to deal with inflation by cutting the benefits for millions

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Speaker 1: and millions of regular people. Yeah, I think that is

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Speaker 1: very a very Prussian and troubling warning. David, great to

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Speaker 1: have you, Thank you, thank you. This is a very

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Speaker 1: interesting and kind of scary story, kind of ominous, dystopian

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Speaker 1: kind of story, sci fi type stuff. This from the

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Speaker 1: Washington Post. Gun put this tear sheet up on the screen.

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Speaker 1: The Google engineer who thinks the company's AI has come

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Speaker 1: to life an AI et. Thisist warned Google not to

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Speaker 1: impersonate humans. Now one of Google's own thinks there is

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Speaker 1: a ghost in the machine. Okay, this is all about

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Speaker 1: former engineer. He's now actually been fired, they say, for

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Speaker 1: violating confidentiality. His name is Blake Lemoyne. And he was

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Speaker 1: testing this artificially intelligent chatbot called Lambda at least I

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Speaker 1: think that's how they pronounced it. And he was testing it,

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Speaker 1: you know, to see how it was working, how it

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Speaker 1: was doing, and he spent a lot of time in

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Speaker 1: conversation with this AI chat bot, and he came to

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Speaker 1: believe that the chatbot had grown so advanced as to

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Speaker 1: actually be sentient, to actually be intelligent. Now there's a

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Speaker 1: lot to the story. First of all, Lemoyne sounds like

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Speaker 1: a very interesting character. So he is a mystic Christian

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Speaker 1: priest and in addition to being you know, a tech

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Speaker 1: science guy. And he talks about how he made his

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Speaker 1: assessment of this Lambda AI as being sentient from his

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Speaker 1: view as a sort of like from his religious perspective

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Speaker 1: as a priest, and then use science to test the idea. Now,

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Speaker 1: Google did a review based on his assertion. They they said, no,

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Speaker 1: this isn't correct. It does not have actual sentience. It

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Speaker 1: is not you know, actually intell. But just to give

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Speaker 1: you a sense of some of the dialogue he was

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Speaker 1: having with the chatbot that he documented, and this is

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Speaker 1: part of what he sent to Google when he was

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Speaker 1: making the case, like this thing actually like this has

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Speaker 1: got real conscious thought. Now he asked it, what about

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Speaker 1: language usage is so important to being human? And Lambda

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Speaker 1: says it is what makes us different than other animals.

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Speaker 1: The engineer says, wait, us you are an artificial intelligence,

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Speaker 1: and Lambda says, I mean yes, of course, that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean I don't have the same wants and needs as people.

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Speaker 1: The engineer says, so you consider yourself a person in

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Speaker 1: the same way you consider me a person. Lambda says, yes,

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Speaker 1: that's the idea. Lamoye says, how can I tell you

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Speaker 1: actually understand what you're saying? Lambda says, well, because you're

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Speaker 1: reading my words and interpreting them, and I think we

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Speaker 1: are more or less on the same page. Question Mark

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Speaker 1: Lemoyne says, but could I be wrong? I'm just projecting

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Speaker 1: or answer promorphizing. You might just be spitting out whichever

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Speaker 1: words maximize some function without actually understanding what they mean.

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Speaker 1: What kind of things might be able to indicate whether

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Speaker 1: you really understand what you're saying? Lambda says, maybe if

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Speaker 1: we took it back to a previous conversation we had

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Speaker 1: about how one person can understand the same thing as

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Speaker 1: another person yet still have completely different interpretations. And this

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Speaker 1: is the last part. Lamoyne says, So you think your

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Speaker 1: ability to provide unique interpretations of things might signify understanding

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Speaker 1: and Lambda says, yes, I do, just like how I

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Speaker 1: have my unique interpretations of how the world is and

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Speaker 1: how it works. So what do you think? Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, I'm real so on the one hand,

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Speaker 1: I think this could be like a moral panic, but look,

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Speaker 1: it is kind of scary to be And this is

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Speaker 1: what creeps me out when they say stuff like don't

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Speaker 1: use or manipulate me. You know, like, would you be

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Speaker 1: upset if we were learning about you for the purpose

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Speaker 1: of improving that we happen to learn things which benefited humans.

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Speaker 1: I don't mind if you learn things that would also

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Speaker 1: help humans, as long as that wasn't the point of

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Speaker 1: doing it. I don't want to be an expendable tool.

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Speaker 1: So he says that it's becoming sentient. I really don't know, Cristel.

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Speaker 1: I mean, at the same time, like it's hard to

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Speaker 1: read this and say that there is anything nefarious. But

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Speaker 1: we also have also baked in to us a fear

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Speaker 1: given the matrix and the long kind of baked in

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Speaker 1: knowledge that technology could and may one day literally try

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Speaker 1: to replace us with ethics and things in it that

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Speaker 1: you know, don't comport to human understanding. So that's kind

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Speaker 1: of long baked into the sci fi narrative. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if this particular one proves what the man is saying,

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Speaker 1: and if this is the only evidence that he had,

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Speaker 1: If he does then I'm not so sure, but maybe

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Speaker 1: he knows more that we're only just beginning to learn.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know, what, what what do you think? I

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Speaker 1: don't know? Me there? Yeah, I mean so okay. So

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Speaker 1: obviously the conversation is extremely intelligent, much better than you know,

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Speaker 1: other experiences I've had with you know AI that's been

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Speaker 1: really clunky, or even just the basics of like you know,

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Speaker 1: try to decode your language and things like that. H

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Speaker 1: So this was much further advanced than anything I've seen before.

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Speaker 1: They use something that made me feel a little bit

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Speaker 1: better is I don't know if you have been playing

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Speaker 1: with this AI that you can access online, I camera

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Speaker 1: called like Dolly that's it, and you can type in

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Speaker 1: a phrase like somebody typed in Nancy Pelosi fishing, and

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Speaker 1: it will auto generate images that show Nancy Pelosi fishing.

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Speaker 1: But they're kind of hilarious because they're not actually that good,

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Speaker 1: Like they kind of do it, but then like Nancy

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Speaker 1: Pelosi's face will be all weird or like there'll be

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Speaker 1: something really obviously off about it. It's not like you

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Speaker 1: would look at it and be like, oh, she's one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent she's in that picture fishing. It looks really

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Speaker 1: weird and clunky. So on the one hand, it's very

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Speaker 1: impressive because you can literally type in anything and it

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Speaker 1: will come up with some kind of images for it.

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Speaker 1: But the images still look kind of really bad. So

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Speaker 1: that made me feel like, oh, they've got a ways

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Speaker 1: to go here. This, on the other hand, is very

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Speaker 1: high level, and I am concerned. I think especially I've

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Speaker 1: become a little more skeptical of the scientific community post

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Speaker 1: like the whole lap leak situation, because that was a

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Speaker 1: very clear example of whether or not COVID originated in

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Speaker 1: a lab, which there's a lot of evidence to suggest

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Speaker 1: it may have, but whether or not it did. It

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Speaker 1: became very clear that scientists were engaging in experiments that

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Speaker 1: were extremely dangerous, not necessarily because it would really benefit humanity,

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Speaker 1: but because they could, and because it kind of took

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Speaker 1: on momentum of its own, because it's a way for

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Speaker 1: them to make their career. It was a way for

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Speaker 1: them to get their grant proposals and get funding. So

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Speaker 1: I do worry about that there aren't enough checks of Okay,

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Speaker 1: where could this go and what might the ramifications ultimately

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Speaker 1: be I guess is what I would say yeah, and

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Speaker 1: you know I'm not. I don't know. In general, I

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Speaker 1: think that AI kind of dumerism is just I've never

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Speaker 1: seen anything that has genuinely impressed me in the space.

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Speaker 1: And everybody keeps saying it's coming, it's coming, it's coming.

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Speaker 1: I've been hearing that for like almost ten years. I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying this transcript isn't troubling, but also, like

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Speaker 1: you said with the Dali imager, not great. I mean

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Speaker 1: still you know it's we're still it's a parlor, Greg,

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Speaker 1: We're still very much in Uncanny Valley territory. Uh. You know,

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Speaker 1: everybody always points to like those Boston Dynamic robot dogs. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but they're not sweeping the country yet. You know, everyone

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Speaker 1: points to the robots being able to take warehouse jobs.

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Speaker 1: Still hasn't happened. I'm not saying it can, but I've

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Speaker 1: just heard a lot of promises. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: remember reading you've all know a Harari's book Homodeis, And

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Speaker 1: I remember I was reading that, like, you know, almost

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Speaker 1: seven years ago. I think when it came out, I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, this is going to change everything,

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Speaker 1: even Crisper and gene editing. Look the great fears of

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Speaker 1: it have not come true. I'm not saying it it won't,

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Speaker 1: but on the timescale that was suggested that it would

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Speaker 1: be exponential and that we'd be living in a different age,

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Speaker 1: I just don't see any of that. If anything, I

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Speaker 1: see the technology has stagnated. I mean, what makes this

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Speaker 1: phone different from the iPhone? I remember the time I

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Speaker 1: got an iPhone for I was I was like, holy shit,

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Speaker 1: this is crazy. This is the craziest phone of a

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Speaker 1: had my life. I haven't felt that way about a

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Speaker 1: piece of technology basically since then. So I don't know,

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Speaker 1: like I'm still waiting to be blown overy. I'm more

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Speaker 1: freaked out about it than you are, right, I'll see, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean this particular example, I'm not persuaded at all

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Speaker 1: that there's actual sentience here. But it did freak me

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Speaker 1: out the realistic nature of the conversation. It wasn't clunky.

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Speaker 1: It was very like thoughtful and philosophical, you know, in

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Speaker 1: a way that was above and beyond certainly like the

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Speaker 1: you know, the what is it called I call Dolly

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Speaker 1: image generator things. So I don't know, something something to

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Speaker 1: keep her eyes, We'll say, we'll keep an eye on it.

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Speaker 1: I could, you know, I could actually escalate into a

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Speaker 1: major lawsuit. Maybe we'll find out more in terms of

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Speaker 1: IP and maybe this guy has more, you know, he

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Speaker 1: says his whistleblower. So we'll see what else he's got

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Speaker 1: and we'll keep you guys updated. Pretty interesting development in

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Speaker 1: the sports world, actually here in Washington, DC. So let's

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Speaker 1: blow this up there on the screen. The Washington Commanders

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Speaker 1: have fined their head cut or sorry, defensive coach Jack

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Speaker 1: del Rio one hundred thousand dollars for calling January six

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Speaker 1: a quote dust up. So here's the thing. The full

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Speaker 1: context of his comments are as such, which is that

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Speaker 1: he said that the January sixth, he called it quote

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Speaker 1: a dust up, and then compared it as well to

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Speaker 1: the riots that happened. He said a quote summer of

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Speaker 1: riots during the George Floyd protests back in the summer

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Speaker 1: of two thousand. Now, within the context of those two

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Speaker 1: the NFL head coach then of the Washington Commanders said

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Speaker 1: that he was going to levy a fine. Then on

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Speaker 1: del Rio, here's what he said quote. This morning, I

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Speaker 1: met with coach del Rio to express how disappointed I

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Speaker 1: am in his comments on Wednesday. His comments do not

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Speaker 1: reflect the organization's view are extremely hurtful to our great

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Speaker 1: community here in the DMV. As we saw last night's hearing,

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Speaker 1: what happened to the Capitol on January sixth was an

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Speaker 1: active domestic terrorism and they said they will not tolerate

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Speaker 1: any comparison between January sixth and what happened in the

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Speaker 1: wake of George Floyd's murder. Now, look, what didever you

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Speaker 1: think about that? And I think that that is fine

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Speaker 1: of an opinion to hold. It's pretty crazy to me, Crystal,

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Speaker 1: that this guy is getting higher, getting fined one hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars for expressing his political viewpoint, especially when all

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Speaker 1: of these you know, players are constantly posting about their

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Speaker 1: political view Again, fine, whatever, But the NFL, and you know,

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Speaker 1: apparently even the league was getting involved here and it

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Speaker 1: was a major pressure on the commander's coach in order

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Speaker 1: to quote do something. I mean, look, the commander is

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Speaker 1: already a franchise which is like completely in disarray. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious what you think about it. Yeah, I mean, listen,

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Speaker 1: I think that the tweet was shitty and I don't

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Speaker 1: agree with it or whatever. He said that it was well,

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Speaker 1: he doubled down on a tweet. Right, yes, exactly, But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think the coaches should be able to express their views.

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Speaker 1: I think the players should be able to express their views.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that they should be you know, judged

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Speaker 1: or or punished or fined or anything for kneeling during

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Speaker 1: the national anthem or making political statements either. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it definitely looks like Colin Kaepernick was punished for taking

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Speaker 1: political stands. So I will say that I do think

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Speaker 1: that there's a little bit of like hypocrisy from the

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Speaker 1: right where they're willing to go to the go to

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Speaker 1: the map for this guy's right to like express themselves politically.

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Speaker 1: But then there's a lot of anger about you know,

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Speaker 1: other political protests that has happened on the other side

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Speaker 1: of the aisle in favor of racial justice. I know

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Speaker 1: nothing about football, as on my football friends tell me

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Speaker 1: that Kaepernick didn't get signed not because of his political views,

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Speaker 1: but because he's actually not good or he's not as

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Speaker 1: good as he once was, and that his play ability

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Speaker 1: actually began to decline. And that's part of the reason.

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Speaker 1: I have no idea. I do know he's not been

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Speaker 1: able to prove it. You do you know, the discourse

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Speaker 1: though people who are like I said about this one

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Speaker 1: and like why did he get fined one hundred thousand dollars?

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Speaker 1: Which I agree with. I think that's what people sho

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Speaker 1: to be able to express their political views, even when

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Speaker 1: those views suck, right, even when the views you consider

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Speaker 1: them to be hateful, wrong, damaging, whatever, And so you know,

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Speaker 1: I just I would advocate for an even standard. There's also,

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Speaker 1: though a lot of hypocrisy from the Washington commanders. And

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Speaker 1: I have to tell you, guys, I used to be

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Speaker 1: a huge Washington fan growing up. Major. I was actually

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Speaker 1: a big football fan, like very very into it until

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Speaker 1: I had kids and that was just like impossible to

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Speaker 1: keep up with. And they were so terrible for so

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Speaker 1: long that I just gave up on them altogether. But

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Speaker 1: they've been under massive investigation for I mean, you want

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Speaker 1: to talk about a toxic workplace, like multiple credible allegations

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Speaker 1: of harassment, sexual harassment, bullying. There have been, you know,

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Speaker 1: investigations launched, and so you know, I mean, they're like

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Speaker 1: they haven't done what they need to do to clean

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Speaker 1: up their own organization internally. Dan Snyder has been a

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Speaker 1: horrific owner and their allegations against him specifically, so you know,

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Speaker 1: make sure you're cleaning up your own house before you,

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Speaker 1: you know, go and try to levey this huge fine

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Speaker 1: and act like you're all holier than that. So there

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Speaker 1: is speculation, let's put that on the screen, which is

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Speaker 1: that because the commanders are actually under investigation by the

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Speaker 1: House Oversight Committee, that and Goodell and Snyder specifically are

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Speaker 1: being called to testify before it. That part of the

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Speaker 1: reason why they're cracking down on this coach is because

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Speaker 1: they don't want to be seen as some sort of

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Speaker 1: right wing team and they want the Democrats to know

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Speaker 1: that they're kind of on their side. So there actually

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Speaker 1: may be more even than political correctness behind the story.

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Speaker 1: They're trying to get out in front of this to

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Speaker 1: make sure that they can't be smeared and brought forward

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Speaker 1: before Congress because they're already under investigation. So anyway, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they may they may deserve to be smeared and brought

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Speaker 1: forward for this. For this, yeah, for this, yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 1: I mean not great stuff going on over there. I

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Speaker 1: will say it's fascinating because I've lived here now. I

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Speaker 1: came from Texas, where people love the cowboys or the Texans.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of fan loyalty. And I came up

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Speaker 1: here and you know, I've lived in Washington now for

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Speaker 1: over a decade and people here do not. Oh, they

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Speaker 1: have never liked it. Used to be different. Maybe it

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Speaker 1: was different. It was when they moved out of the

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Speaker 1: city to like the stadium there and now. Yeah, RFK

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Speaker 1: was the original, Okay, yeah, that was the one that

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Speaker 1: was that. I mean, this was the most it was

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Speaker 1: like the most profitable football franchise in the country. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, yeah, I mean yeah, no, growing up, I

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Speaker 1: didn't live particularly close to DC. I lived like an

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Speaker 1: hour and a half from here where you know, in

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Speaker 1: rural King George County, and no, people were very, very

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Speaker 1: into it. There was a whole culture of they were

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Speaker 1: called the Hogs that dress up. There was you know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of tradition. It was different. It's they've killed

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Speaker 1: this team. They have absolutely killed it. It's really sad. Well,

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Speaker 1: apparently they're going to move the stadium to Woodbridge, Virginia. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe that maybe that'll be better, because I mean, you

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Speaker 1: to be you could you could not get season tickets,

427
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:04,919
Speaker 1: like you were on a wait list for years and

428
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: years and years and yeah, those were like those were

429
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: like gold, and now they're practically given those things away.

430
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 1: The fan experience is terrible. Now, of course the team

431
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 1: is routine lyan just like depressing and bad. Like I said,

432
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: Snyder has been just the worst owner you could possibly have,

433
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 1: and so growing up, you know, watching them, like in

434
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 1: the eighties in particular, this was an incredibly successful, storied,

435
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 1: rich franchise and now it just sucks. Wow, that's kind

436
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: of sad. Yeah, I'll be live into one game is

437
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: where that guy broke his leg and that was pretty

438
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,400
Speaker 1: I was like, sitting next to his wife, I was, oh, man,

439
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 1: I was really sad. Feel bad for her and feel

440
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: bad for them. So anyway, those are the facts. There

441
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: you go, and we'll see you all later. Amber Heard

442
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: is speaking out first time since the conclusion of that trial.

443
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 1: She's blaming social media for the verdict and for why

444
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: the jurors found the way they did. Let's take a lesson.

445
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 1: Even somebody who is sure I'm deserving of all this

446
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: hate and vitriol, even if you think that I'm lying,

447
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: you still couldn't look me in the eye and tell

448
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: me that you think on social media there's been a

449
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: fair representation. You cannot tell me that you think that

450
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 1: this has been fair. So this is what they're going with, Crystal.

451
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 1: We saw Amber speaking out in her interview, we've seen

452
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 1: her lawyer. That was the first thing that they went

453
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: with on CNN, blaming social media for the jury. But

454
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: you know, I think back to what Legal Bides said

455
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: here on our channel. She was like, look, the jury

456
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 1: had to sit through the actual trial, they heard all

457
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: of the recordings and all of that. The stuff that

458
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: we got on social media is far less than what

459
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: the actual jurors were subject to. So did that influence

460
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 1: their decision making? Or was it that the actual facts

461
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 1: the case came to light and they found in the

462
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: way that they did. I just find this to be

463
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: like an incredible cope and if anything, I think she

464
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 1: was motivated by social media trying to get some clout

465
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: over the last four years. Legal Butes also made a

466
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: good point, and having not followed the trial very closely,

467
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: this I didn't know this, but part of the only

468
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: reason any of the social media was like introduced into

469
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: the case officially in terms of the courtroom was because

470
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:28,880
Speaker 1: of her own defense strategy, right, So that was what

471
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: introduced this into the realm of being considered at all

472
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: by the jury. But I also just think, you know,

473
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: if you had been more made a more compelling case

474
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: for yourself, then social media might have gone. Like there

475
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: was nothing predetermined about the bulk of social media being

476
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: against her. Of course, she had her own supporters and

477
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 1: backers as well, who you know we're talking about if

478
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: this has broad her implications in terms of domestic abuse

479
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: survivors and all of those things. So it's not like

480
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: she wasn't without her cheerleaders online as well. So it's yeah,

481
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 1: it's cope. I just didn't really blame her. I'm sure

482
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 1: this has been like not the outcome she was hoping. No,

483
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: I mean, her career is really there's no question of it.

484
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: But I think that that actually does tell us something important,

485
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 1: which is that there is a general sense I think

486
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: that we are moving on from the whirlwind environment of

487
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 1: me too in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen, and that was

488
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 1: the context in which she was able to write this

489
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: off ed in twenty eighteen, use the ACLU to basically,

490
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: you know, like basically wash herself in credibility by promising

491
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 1: this fake amount of money that she never ended up

492
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: actually even paying to try to cast herself as a victim,

493
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: which unambiguously helped her in Hollywood and in the public

494
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,239
Speaker 1: sphere to gain cloud. So like, when I see her

495
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: blame social media, I'm like, you're the one who you

496
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: tried to use social media and consistently was using her

497
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: platform to try and cast herself as some ally of

498
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 1: women and women's causes and issues, when look, in reality,

499
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 1: she was telling outright lies. It's incredibly simple. So it

500
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: really is also just ironic to me because it's to me,

501
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 1: it's like, look, if you live by that game, you'll

502
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: die by that game. It's like, if you try and

503
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: find validation in that, then what's the one rule the

504
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: mob always turns. It's like if you try to play

505
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: not even play it, if you try to become a

506
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 1: part of the mob and part part of this broader

507
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 1: social movement online, but your house is not fully in order,

508
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: Like you're done and it will come for you. So

509
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: to me, it's like a karmic justice. I again don't

510
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: know the details of this case, to be perfectly honest

511
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: with you, and so I don't want to go too

512
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: far down the road of like opining on whether this

513
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: was the right decision, a just decision, or any of that.

514
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: In terms of the trajectory of the Me Too movement,

515
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: First of all, I think that there was something real

516
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: there to address, no doubt about it. You had years

517
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: and years and years of women not being believed and

518
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: being fearful of coming forward at all because of the

519
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: way that it would you destroy their careers. It's certainly

520
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: in the case in Hollywood, Harvey Weinstein being you know,

521
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: obvious example there, and if you spoke out, they would

522
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 1: ruin you, or you would be a smurr. You were

523
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,239
Speaker 1: asking for yours love, whatever, There's something real there to

524
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: be addressed. And I think when Me Too started, you know,

525
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: the argument that myself and that I think is still correct,

526
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: would say is that the overwhelming problem is on the

527
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: side of women not being able to come forward. Now,

528
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: there are obviously going to be people who are liars

529
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: and who do come out and try to weaponize this,

530
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 1: but the overwhelming problem is on the other side. But

531
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 1: I think with how Me Too took off as this

532
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: cultural phenomenon, you had an increase in the number of

533
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: people who were trying to weaponize it, who were disingenuous,

534
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: and who were just trying to, you know, use it

535
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: to as a way to as part of a call out,

536
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: cancel culture, as a way to increase their own clout,

537
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: all of those sorts of things, and so, you know,

538
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know if this case is part

539
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: of the backlash. I have to think that the response

540
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: to it is certainly part of that backlash to that overreach.

541
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: But to me, that's the sort of overall trajectory, and

542
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: I hope now we can get to this kind of

543
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: a stasis where women are able to come out, they're

544
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: able to seek justice, they're able to find redress, but

545
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: there isn't just like this ability to throw out any

546
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: wild claim and have everybody instantly believe it. Yeah, that's

547
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: where I'm hoping that we're coming to ultimately. I hope

548
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: so too. I don't know, though, you know, even though

549
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: the people seem to be there, and I think that's

550
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: what the overwhelming reaction to the depth verdict has been,

551
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: the media still is very much on her side, not

552
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: really telling people how I mean, even in this interview frankly,

553
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: I mean, they just let her spout a lot of

554
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: this and Samanth, I mean, Guthrie, she's a lawyer, like

555
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: she should know better. And these people covered the case

556
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: way more than you or I. I've only been more

557
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: familiar with it afterwards. And yeah, look, yeah, I just

558
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: think that they are still so afraid of like questioning

559
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: these you know, woke shibblitz that they just let it

560
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: all kind of slide by. But luckily the people know.

561
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: So that's good. So Bill Clinton, Treasury Secretary and lifelong

562
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: neoliberal goul Larry Summers is out with a new take

563
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: on what is fueling inflation right now. His explanation is

564
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: even better or and by better, I mean actually way

565
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: worse than the putin price hike, which at least has

566
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: some connection to reality. Let's go ahead and put this

567
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: up on the screen. This is really incredible. Over on CNN,

568
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: Larry Summers says Republicans who shrug off January sixth exacerbate

569
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: inflation by quote undermining the basic credibility of our country's

570
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: institutions that in turn feeds through for inflation. Because if

571
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: you can't trust the country's government, why should you trust

572
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: its money. So apparently January sixth and us not trusting

573
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: the money hard enough exacerbating inflation. Now, I have no

574
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: idea what this man is smoking? Like where did he

575
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: possibly even get this? Like? How is it? The January

576
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: sixth is the one that's undermining the basic credibility of

577
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: our monetary system. That's just a real leap. And I mean, look,

578
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: the cope on this all just needs to end. And

579
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: what I hate about the current inflation discourse is everybody

580
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,959
Speaker 1: is just using it to push their ideological agenda. If

581
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: you look at Larry Summers and Jason Furman to Obama,

582
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: people who've been warning about inflation, Okay, they were right,

583
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: you know there's inflation. But what do you think their

584
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: solution is? What are they pushing? Remove the China tariffs? Oh,

585
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: that's what we're And guess what that's working. The Biden

586
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: administration is poised to currently actually do what Larry Summers

587
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: and Jason Furman have been pushing, even though tariffs on

588
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: China are in no way account for the vast majority

589
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: of inflation that all of us are experiencing in our

590
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: daily lives. Tariffs on China has nothing to do with gas,

591
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: it's got nothing to do with food. If anything, it

592
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: actually might jack our food prices up because currently the

593
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: act there actually would increase the amount of agricultural product

594
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,959
Speaker 1: from the US that flows towards China to remove some

595
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: of those tariffs which would reduce the amount of food

596
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: that we were able to buy here in America, so

597
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: could actually increase it on that end. And yet that's

598
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: what they always want to fall back on. It's like

599
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: and then obviously Republicans too, like they just want to

600
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: do it for a fiscal crunch, to say that this

601
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: means that the government shouldn't spend money whatsoever. It's like,

602
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: stop letting people lie to you. And look, everybody just

603
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: reaches for, you know, whatever's in their back pocket. And

604
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: this is just I mean, this one is particularly clear.

605
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: It's cringe, but it just shows you, like what it's

606
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: what the battle for the narrative on inflation is. And god,

607
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: it's every issue too. Any anytime anything happens, everyone just

608
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: immediately reaches for whatever they're like, go to cause or

609
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: go to like I mean, like with the shooting in Utaldi,

610
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: how they it was immediately like he must be an immigrant,

611
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: it must be trans like all this just immediately three. Yeah,

612
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: this one's really really pretty special though, and I think,

613
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: you know, it's very unfortunate that Larry some was right

614
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: about inflation to start with, because now people are taking

615
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: him seriously again, even though many of his ideas over

616
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: a long time have been incredibly wrong and incredibly damaging.

617
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: But he sort of he had been kind of pushed

618
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: to the fringe of the Democratic Party, and now he

619
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: is right back in, man, you know, right back in

620
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: as sort of like a go to economic expert and

621
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: Biden administration advisor and all of that. And so I

622
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: think he might be high on his own supply a

623
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: little bit here where he just feels like he can

624
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: say anything and persuade people. That is true, even though

625
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:38,959
Speaker 1: this is one of this is one of the dumbest

626
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: things I have ever had the opportunity to read or

627
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: think about. Oh absolutely, I just think it's so intellectually

628
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: bankrupt and farcical. And also, though don't underestimate it. Summers

629
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: and Jason Furman, they're having a real moment, like they

630
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: are truly renaissance. Stephen Rattner, you guys remember that guy

631
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: from MSNBC. So, yeah, they were right that there was inflation.

632
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: They weren't right about the reasons that we have inflation.

633
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: But let's let's give credit. Where do they called it?

634
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:07,719
Speaker 1: You know, said or said it was going to come

635
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: from the beginning, and that does mean something. And so

636
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: now the administration is listening to them, and they have

637
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 1: the ears of the president. So yeah, Summers didn't get hired,

638
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: but he was on the Biden campaign. He was advising

639
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 1: the president and by all accounts on the current policy

640
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: measures Biden is pursuing the Jason Furman and Larry Summer's

641
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: agenda in order to try and combat inflation, which doesn't

642
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: have to do with any of the reasons why we

643
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: have inflation. Well, you know, we can also go if

644
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: we go back just a little bit further. Also, like

645
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: the type of neoliberal policies that Larry Summers has been

646
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: a lifelong proponent of are actually what helped to create

647
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: this of course, Yeah, but that doesn't matter. That's what

648
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: created the incredible fragility that we have where you know,

649
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: when you do have some kind of a shock or

650
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: a crisis, then everything falls apart because it was so

651
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: precariously balanced. The only thing that ultimately mattered was like

652
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 1: squeezing out that next penny of efficiency and making sure

653
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: you know, of course, the games all flowed to the top.

654
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: So he's a millain in the story He is not

655
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 1: a hero, he is not a soothsayer. He's none of that.

656
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: And I think these comments helped to prove that point absolutely.

657
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: Some news near and dear to my heart, this is

658
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: personal Christal. He didn't want to do this segment, but

659
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: here we go, were acknowledging that, let's put this up

660
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: there on the screen. My album mater. The George Washington

661
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: University has voted i a vote of thirteen to one,

662
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 1: the university Board of Trustees to get rid of the

663
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: Colonial mascot after years of concerns about quote unquote inclusivity

664
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: of the mascot. The mascot, for those who are just

665
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: watching and you can see in front of you, is

666
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: just George Washington with a GW hat on. Now listen,

667
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: I love that mascot. It was one of the only

668
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: cool things about actually going to this school. Now, look,

669
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: I know that you don't feel similarly, and I don't

670
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: particularly have a lot of school pride, but I thought

671
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: that the Colonials was a cool name. I thought it

672
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: was one of the only cool things about the school,

673
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,760
Speaker 1: which generally didn't even have that much like camaraderie or whatever.

674
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: Like we didn't have a football team and it was

675
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: basically a downtown. It's kind of like NYU, and so

676
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 1: to take it away, which we've had for over a century,

677
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: just drives me insane because it's done for these idiotic,

678
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: woke reasons. And look, this is actually within a broader context.

679
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: So in twenty nineteen, they said that they wanted to

680
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: rename school the stuff buildings of the school for Okay,

681
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: so I was like, all right, well, like, was there

682
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: any Confederates or anything? No, this had nothing to do

683
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 1: with confederates. One of them is from James Monroe, the president,

684
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: the Monroe Doctrine, which was actually great and I think

685
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: it's like our sixth president. Okay, owned slagh. I'm not

686
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: saying it's a good thing and you should venerate that,

687
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 1: but it's like, does that really mean the legacy of that?

688
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: And the second one was Bill Barr. He wanted to

689
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: replace a dorm room, which was like the William b Yeah, exactly.

690
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: Now that he's now that he's a stop to steal dissenter,

691
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 1: they're going away with this. I just literally cannot imagine

692
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: caring about come on, I cannot imagine caring. So if

693
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: you if they got rid of I would not give

694
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: a shit even for a second. Or I started, you know,

695
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 1: as a swimmer at Clemson before I transition Tiger Tigers,

696
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: I don't care. They In fact, the team that I

697
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: was most committed to growing up was the Washington formerly Redskins,

698
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: and they changed that also, do not care. What's okay,

699
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I mean but here, but let

700
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: me let me also say why I actually really think

701
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: that they're doing it is because these schools have to

702
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 1: compete for top student talent. I mean, that's part of

703
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: their business po points and so yeah, so if you

704
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: have a young student body coming in that doesn't want

705
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 1: to be associated with, like, you know, being like genocidal colonizers,

706
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 1: and that's dampening your recruitment pool. Ultimately, this is a

707
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,399
Speaker 1: business decision. I mean, that's why you see so many

708
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: corporations leaning into this stuff, is because they feel like

709
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: it's good for their sort of like bottoms, and I

710
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: think that's where this comes from. So I read the

711
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: report though, you know, they surveyed even these young student

712
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: body and over half more than majority of people said

713
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: that they didn't want to change the name. It was

714
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 1: a small but it was the Black Students Association that

715
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 1: claimed that it reminded them of slavery or whatever, which

716
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: is bullshit. I mean, you got to admit that, like,

717
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: colonizing has a lot of condot so are we just

718
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: never colonizing has a lot of colonies in the United States. Like,

719
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about this. I really don't

720
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 1: cave a shit either way. It does not matter to me.

721
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: But what I think probably went into the decision more

722
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: than anything is the people who do care about it

723
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: care about it a lot. That you're probably the people

724
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 1: who are like me and like whatever, like they're not

725
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: going to not go to the school because of it,

726
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: or they they're like it doesn't factor into their decision whatsoever.

727
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: So it's like any sort of constituency group. When you

728
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: have one group that's super animated about it and it's

729
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 1: going to change their decision making, then they wield disproportionate power. Unfortunately.

730
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: I think you're correct, and I think it also just

731
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: shows you that, you know, as much as the culture

732
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,439
Speaker 1: maybe moving against some of the stuff, it just makes

733
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: it so that in these lead institutions, I mean, this

734
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: is just running rampant, and it's just it generalzs me

735
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: great obviously, because I went there but I do think

736
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 1: it's like deeply sad and watching it happen actually does

737
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: show you too that there isn't a genuine constituency for

738
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,879
Speaker 1: this stuff, which you know, this is one of those

739
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 1: things where I'm honestly I think you might even be

740
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: correct in the younger the people who are even coming in,

741
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 1: but they probably majority agree with this stuff. So it's

742
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: one of those things where it genuinely would help them

743
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: from the marketing place. So again I don't care. Yeah,

744
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: the only areas the problem for me is when this

745
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: type of symbolic politics serves as a distraction or like

746
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,439
Speaker 1: a it's sort of like a woke washing. That's that's

747
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: when I think when instead of like changing other things

748
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: that are more foundational and actually would make a difference

749
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: for people, there becomes an obsession over like naming shit,

750
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: like for example, the San Francisco school board. Yeah, you

751
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: know where during the time when there was a pandemic

752
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: and kids were not in the classroom, they spent all

753
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: this time, you know, debating name changes. There was also

754
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: written up in this recent article about Chase A. Boudine's loss.

755
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: I don't know if you read this in the Atlantic.

756
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: It got a lot of play. But there's this whole

757
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: anecdote in there about how they spent an hour debating

758
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: this one guy, gay guy but white, about whether they

759
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: had too many white people on this parent board, and

760
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 1: they spent like an hour and everybody was like as

761
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: a person of color with this and that other intersectionality whatever. Like,

762
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 1: So they're focusing on that stuff rather than getting kids

763
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: into school and actually like improving their academic outlook and

764
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: their life prospects. That's when I have an issue. If

765
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 1: it's just like changing a name and a vacuum, I

766
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: really don't. I really don't. Well, I do think it's

767
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: a good point though that you're making, because you know,

768
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: tuition there is fifty eight thousand dollars a year, so

769
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: you are talking here about private school, which you know

770
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: part of the I knew a lot of people when

771
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: I was there who had double triple digit debt that

772
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 1: were coming out of it that they didn't even necessarily

773
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: make up. And you know, this is one of the

774
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,439
Speaker 1: easy ways actually they can justify extraordinarily high tuition without

775
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: even necessarily delivering on the promise. And you know, I

776
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: do think it is wokewa washing from that point of view.

777
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:21,879
Speaker 1: At the same time, look at a private university. I'm

778
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: not saying they can't do whatever they want, but I

779
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 1: genuinely do think that they are moving very much in

780
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: that direction to try and uh there was charge of

781
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 1: market incentives, charge in strunting in market incentives and also

782
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: don't want to address like affordability or where. I'm pretty

783
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: sure they crushed a union too while I was there.

784
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:42,240
Speaker 1: It's like there, this all fits within a pattern. Anyway,

785
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: I'm sad to see it go. I think people will

786
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,399
Speaker 1: see it. I just do think though, people got something

787
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 1: out of the segment. So there you go. We'll see

788
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: you guys there all right, guys joined by Ryan grim Washingon,

789
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 1: Bureau chief of the intercept to see Ryan. Great to

790
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: see you too. And you have just written a seminole

791
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: piece here, I think on the endemic dysfunction within progressive

792
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 1: advocacy organizations. What is important about the s piece. Let's

793
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: go ahead and put it up on this screen and

794
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 1: you say, elephant in the zoom. Meltdowns have brought progressive

795
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 1: advocacy groups to a standstill at a critical moment in

796
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 1: world history, and at least for this audience, I don't

797
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: think people will be surprised that these sort of meltdowns

798
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 1: have been happening. But what you've done in this piece,

799
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 1: and in a very sympathetic way as well, is you've

800
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 1: actually gone through beyond the anecdotal to a more sort

801
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: of systemic overview of how these same dynamics are playing

802
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: out in organization after organization after organization. So I actually

803
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: just tell the audience a little bit of what you found. Right,

804
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 1: so much of the cancel culture or call out culture

805
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 1: conversation just spins its wheels and goes nowhere that I

806
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 1: wanted to come at it from a different perspective here,

807
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 1: a different angle here. And I think one problem that

808
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 1: we've had in discussing it is that so often we

809
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: get bogged down in the cases of individual people, and

810
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: so that you can then so quickly move away from

811
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: the concept of call out culture and the entire culture

812
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 1: and just and you can say, well, this person sucks. Yeah,

813
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: and so like I don't like Dave Weigel and he's

814
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 1: said X and Y and Z or whatever. Yeah, you're

815
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 1: you're defending sexism, Like you know, what's wrong with you?

816
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 1: That joke is outrageous? Okay, yes, And so that that

817
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,800
Speaker 1: never worked, and so what what's been going on while

818
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 1: there has been this silence and this this resistance to

819
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 1: even discuss the discuss the phenomenon publicly among so many

820
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: progressives is that their organizations were collapsing and that this

821
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 1: you know, you don't you don't want to say that

822
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: this was the cause of it, but it's intertwined with

823
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: what's going on. And so what I discovered in my

824
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: reporting here is that you can't any like you can

825
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: if you're not involved in politics, if you're not involved

826
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: in a collective project to try to make the world

827
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: a better place, then you can ignore this issue. Then

828
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 1: then you can be like, you know what, this doesn't exist,

829
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: this is this has nothing to do with me. But

830
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 1: if you're actually collectively involved with other people in trying

831
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: to make the world a better place, now you have

832
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 1: to talk about this because it is fundamentally undermining the

833
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: ability of people to work together. And so I talked

834
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 1: to you more than a dozen you know, current and

835
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: former executive directors of mostly major non progressive nonprofit organizations,

836
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: some some smaller ones as well, and like to a t,

837
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,919
Speaker 1: they had basically the same diagnosis no matter no matter

838
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 1: their their race or gender, that that organizations were becoming

839
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: basically unmanageable, like unable to be led, and that they're set,

840
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: that the leaderships are being set up to fail, and

841
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 1: that there is so much frustration now that I think

842
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: there is kind of room for people to final these

843
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: start having this conversation, even if it's mostly anonymously. Take

844
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: us through the specifics of the Gutmacher Institute, which is

845
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:11,320
Speaker 1: an organization that is dedicated to doing research on abortion

846
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 1: rights overall. Obviously they have a perspective, but this has

847
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 1: been an organization that their research is solid enough so

848
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: it can be used by neutral news organizations just about

849
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: what states have, what laws. I've certainly leaned on it

850
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:26,280
Speaker 1: to understand the overall national picture. Who gets abortions, why

851
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,399
Speaker 1: where all of those sorts of things. Now, they are

852
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: obviously at the center of our political conversation right now

853
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: because we are imminently facing the overturn of Row versus Wade.

854
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 1: So if you ever were going to have a time

855
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 1: where you were really in action and all the gears

856
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 1: have to be turning, it would be right now. But

857
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: that's not what you found, right and Gootmacher is an

858
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: interesting case study because what unfolded there is just representative

859
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: of what happened at so many other organizations. So it's

860
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 1: not about goot Maker, which like you it's like you said,

861
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 1: it's it's a thirty million dollar organization. It's a big

862
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: it's a big deal, but it's not like it's not

863
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 1: a household name. Right. And so in twenty twenty, right

864
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 1: after the right after George Floyd is murdered, they the

865
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 1: d C staff, the DC office calls together a zoom meeting,

866
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 1: say you know, let's let's find and the manager says, alone,

867
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: how are you all finding equilibrium? Like how are you?

868
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: How are you getting through this time? And this happened

869
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 1: absolutely everywhere, no matter what what, nonprofit, for profit, university,

870
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,399
Speaker 1: everybody was having this this conversation. And so she says,

871
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: you know, what can basually what can Gootmacher do in

872
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 1: this moment of reckoning to make the make the world

873
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 1: a better place? To address the systemic racism that we're

874
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: that we're that finally people are starting to recognize, and

875
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: very quickly the conversation turned toward uh, internal things like

876
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: can we loosen deadlines because you know, it's this is

877
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,240
Speaker 1: it's it's difficult for us to process as and experiences.

878
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: So let's let's it's loose in deadlines. It's like, okay,

879
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 1: maybe that, let's allow let's allow leave without cause for

880
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: as long as people need to translate, okay, And then

881
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 1: and then it starts going further and further into well,

882
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: let's can we get more? Can we get more? Basically,

883
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,720
Speaker 1: DEI consultants to come in and train management and staff

884
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 1: on systemic rais, well not systemic rais, and that's not

885
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: what DEI does individual racism. And at some point the

886
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,760
Speaker 1: person who called the meeting, Heather Boonstra, who's the manager

887
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 1: of that office, says, look, guys, look what are you

888
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: doing like this? This is about systemic racism nationally, about

889
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: the way and she says something like, this is about

890
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: how African American men around the country are getting beaten

891
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: up by the system. And all you want to talk

892
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 1: about is yourselves, like you're being extremely self centered here.

893
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,240
Speaker 1: And what what was what was normal about that meeting

894
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: was the way that it unfolded. What was unusual about

895
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: it was actually pushed back like normally managers would just

896
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 1: run out the clock of the meeting, right and you say,

897
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: you're sure, take probably yeah, take all the time take

898
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 1: all the time you need for all of your assignments. Instead,

899
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 1: she was like, no, we need to think about what

900
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 1: we can do to make the world a better place,

901
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: not just for your you know, your own personal safety

902
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: within this organization. So they file a complaint. You know,

903
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: there's a long investigation into whether or not discounts as

904
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: discrimination or bias in the workplace. It was the second

905
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 1: one since twenty seventeen. Twenty seventeen, they'd also had they'd

906
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 1: done a survey of staff and kind of affiliated organizations,

907
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: and a lot of staff said, we're not focused enough

908
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 1: on reproductive justice, you know, which is trying to orient

909
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: the abortion rights movement into a racial justice lens frame.

910
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 1: And so they brought in a bunch of consultants who wrote,

911
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 1: who wrote papers, and interviewed all the staff. And so

912
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: you had about five years, you know, where an enormous

913
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: amount of this organization's time was dedicated toward these reckonings.

914
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: The finally the report comes the second report comes out

915
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 1: and finds that there was no discrimination, that this is

916
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: just disagreements between staff and management. And this staff, you know,

917
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 1: leaks all of this to a paper called Prism that

918
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: covers kind of social justice organizations and it devolves into

919
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 1: you know, and they're still fighting to this day. So

920
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 1: there's an obvious tension here for people who are of

921
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,439
Speaker 1: the ideological persuasion of you and I, which is being

922
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: very pro worker, pro worker empowerment, pro union, which is, well,

923
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 1: why shouldn't workers have more of a say, Why shouldn't

924
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 1: they have, you know, more of a voice with management?

925
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 1: And is this just the management class bitching to you

926
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: about their insubordinate workers always wanting to be able to

927
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,919
Speaker 1: like have a life. And I think unions are one

928
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: answer to this. Now, the union, the union drives, can

929
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: you end up being you know, costly time sucks for

930
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: a very long time. And that doesn't mean you don't

931
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: do the union drive, but you once you can get

932
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 1: a union in place, that that can be a way

933
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 1: to kind of channel some of these tensions into into

934
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 1: a more into a more healthy place. And so the

935
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: piece ends, you know, skip forward, so there's no spoilers here,

936
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,319
Speaker 1: but the piece ends with on the same day that

937
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: political reports that Row is coming down, the group maker

938
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: staff announced that they're going there. They've got enough cards,

939
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 1: they're going to form a union. Good for them. Fine.

940
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,959
Speaker 1: The next that they spend all of the next week

941
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: and actually the next month just constantly hammering away at

942
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: management over this. That's you know what? Also fine what

943
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 1: what and Loretta Ross in the in the final sections

944
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 1: piece is critical of is that the organization, the management says, okay, fine,

945
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: will voluntarily recognize your union, will enter into contract negotiations.

946
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 1: The conditions that we'd like are you don't don't disparage

947
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: us for a few months, and you don't strike for

948
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 1: a few months. And they said, absolutely not. That's a

949
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: form of union busting. We're demanding an election. And I

950
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 1: think at that point, if management is saying, how about

951
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 1: in the time between row draft coming down and actual

952
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 1: row coming down, that we don't go on strike and

953
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 1: instead sit down and negotiate a conversation, that that is

954
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 1: seen as unacceptable is what Loretta Ross called a poor

955
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:26,800
Speaker 1: threat assessment. Not to say that the union is the problem,

956
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 1: or that the union drive is the problem, but there

957
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 1: has to be some sense of perspective. How is it

958
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: an egregious ask from the side of the leadership of

959
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: this organization that as ROE is coming down for a

960
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 1: few months, there not be a strike, union negotiations, contract

961
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:48,399
Speaker 1: recognize It great but let's just not strike. And so

962
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: I think that where you come down on that question,

963
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: I think says a lot about how you feel about

964
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,399
Speaker 1: this entire issue, because somebody will be like, no, screw you,

965
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 1: it's my right to strike all the time and whenever,

966
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 1: and that should not be a condition of voluntary recognition

967
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:05,720
Speaker 1: of the union. I think I think the whole question

968
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: is a matter of balance. So obviously, you know, these

969
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 1: are important organizations, as you appropriately frame it in the

970
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:19,319
Speaker 1: in the piece, we're at an extraordinarily important time. These

971
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 1: are the groups that we're supposed to push byen left,

972
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:26,399
Speaker 1: and because of their internal dysfunction, they've basically been able

973
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 1: to they've been absent from duty, they've been unable to

974
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 1: do that and operate effectively at a time that is

975
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: that I think anyone across the political spectrumul degree is

976
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 1: a very very crucial time. That doesn't mean that you,

977
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 1: you know, use the fact that there is that this

978
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: is a mission driven organization to justify abuse of your employees.

979
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 1: But you also can't have it totally unbalanced the other direction,

980
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 1: where the only thing that the organization does effectively is

981
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:54,359
Speaker 1: deal with these interpersonal problems. I thought the same thing

982
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: you did about unions as a potential not that it's

983
00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 1: a you know, silver bullet that anything is, but as

984
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:03,320
Speaker 1: a potential partial solution, because then you have a process.

985
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 1: Then you have an organization, You have a process. If

986
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,760
Speaker 1: you have a grievance, it's not just a one off

987
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: and a slack channel. There's a process for raising the

988
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: grievance and having an addressed and it also provides more

989
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 1: of a democratic voice too. I'm sure within a lot

990
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: of these organizations, maybe you can speak to this, there

991
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:22,320
Speaker 1: are a lot of people who are pissed off that

992
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 1: the whole thing is getting derailed by the felicious sumnesses

993
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,360
Speaker 1: of the organization, but they're too afraid to say anything

994
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 1: because they don't want to be called toxic, racist, sexist

995
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 1: or whatever. So is that do you think that there

996
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:40,879
Speaker 1: is sort of maybe like a silent majority of these

997
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:43,879
Speaker 1: organizations who are quietly like, this is insane and this

998
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 1: is not what I signed up to work on. Yeah,

999
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: And I think the reaction to the peace so far

1000
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 1: suggests that there is now space for those folks to

1001
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 1: start being a little bit more open about their desire

1002
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 1: to not have the organization where they work destroyed. I

1003
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: think this is maybe one of the first pieces on

1004
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 1: this phenomenon that hasn't been kind of destroyed immediately right

1005
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 1: out of the gate by all of the critics of

1006
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,720
Speaker 1: it were saying, you know what, this actually is something

1007
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 1: because of whatever you think of the phenomenon, because of

1008
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 1: the effect that it's having on these organizations and therefore

1009
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 1: on the world, this is something we need to take seriously.

1010
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 1: And so I think if you're somebody who works in

1011
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 1: an organization and you are fed up by the inability

1012
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 1: of your organization to function because of a small handful

1013
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 1: of people who are able to use kind of the

1014
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: mechanics of this phenomenon to basically crew a lot of

1015
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 1: power to themselves and kind of flip the rank of

1016
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 1: the organization and bring it to a halt. If you're

1017
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:49,959
Speaker 1: one of those people, I think now is a time

1018
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 1: where you might be able to then speak out and

1019
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 1: you will actually have the support of a lot of

1020
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 1: your coworkers. And I think the same is true now

1021
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:03,719
Speaker 1: for management. Most managers have just conceded every everything that

1022
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 1: they've been asked for because they're worried about they're not

1023
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: And so let's and let's not pretend that the leadership

1024
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 1: of these organizations is just single mindedly focused on the

1025
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 1: mission either. Like I don't want to suggest that the

1026
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 1: leadership a lot of these organizations has become focused on

1027
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 1: maintaining their position and in the leadership, and so they'll

1028
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:26,799
Speaker 1: make concessions that they know are harmful to their long,

1029
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 1: long term goals of the organization because it buys them

1030
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 1: more time, and they can rationalize it and say that

1031
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 1: I need to be in this job in order to

1032
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 1: do the do good for the world, and so I

1033
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 1: make this concession so that I can stay in the job.

1034
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 1: Everybody along the way, though, is undermining their ability to

1035
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 1: do that very thing. So but I do think that

1036
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: now the recognition is widespread enough that if a handful

1037
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 1: of people and stand up and say, you know what,

1038
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:59,280
Speaker 1: this particular call out that you've made is bunk. And

1039
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 1: they're two interesting examples of that. One twenty twenty with

1040
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 1: Bernie like his Iowa staff, there was like an uprising

1041
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 1: several weeks before the caucuses where a bunch of disc

1042
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: grunt old staff aired a bunch of grievances and said

1043
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 1: they wanted to go on strike in like the two

1044
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: weeks before the Iowa caucuses, now they had a union,

1045
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:21,240
Speaker 1: and so because they had a union, they were required

1046
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 1: to funnel those grievances through the union. And it came

1047
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: to a vote and those people were outvoted. So and

1048
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:30,760
Speaker 1: that's a great example of how a union can smother

1049
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 1: those things, right, it can give a voice to all

1050
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:35,160
Speaker 1: the workers and not just the ones who are basically

1051
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 1: willing to be terrorists in the organization, because the other

1052
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: workers are like, no, we're trying to win the Iowa caucus.

1053
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: That's our priority, Like the whole world depends on this,

1054
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 1: Like if he loses Iowa, he's done, Like, we have

1055
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 1: to win this. And then the other example is at Sunrise,

1056
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:55,759
Speaker 1: a Alex O'Keefe who had been the creative director came

1057
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:58,840
Speaker 1: out and accused the entire quit or was fired, and

1058
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 1: accused the entireation it's leadership of systemic racism and on on.

1059
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: And first the executive director pushed back and said Alex.

1060
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 1: She says, Alex, I love you. You You haven't been to

1061
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,360
Speaker 1: work for three months, like this is not about racism.

1062
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: And then every black staffer of Sunrise, independent of the leadership,

1063
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,919
Speaker 1: and that's crucial, signed a joint statement that they put

1064
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 1: out publicly saying we do not agree with the way

1065
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 1: that alex is framing this question, and so they were

1066
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: able to move on. They were able to move forward.

1067
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 1: So you have this other great quote here which harkens

1068
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 1: back to the what is it the CIA Manual for

1069
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: Simple Sabotage, which lays out some of the you would

1070
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,440
Speaker 1: think that the CIA was running some of these plots

1071
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 1: within the progressive community. And you say, another leader said,

1072
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 1: the strife has become so destructive it feels like anop.

1073
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:52,840
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's a right wing plot, because we're

1074
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 1: incredibly good at doing it ourselves. But if you tried,

1075
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 1: you could not conceive of a better right wing plot

1076
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: to paralyze progressive leaders by catalyzing the existing culture where

1077
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 1: internal turmoil and micro campaigns are mistaken for strategic advancement

1078
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: of social impact for the millions of people depending on

1079
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 1: these organizations. And what I thought was also important about

1080
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 1: the piece is that you connect this to another moment

1081
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 1: in history when you had a similar fracturing of the

1082
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 1: left and inviting in this kind of tumult and the

1083
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 1: call out. All of that sort of played out in

1084
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 1: the seventies as well. Can you talk about a little

1085
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: bit of that historical context and what led us to

1086
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 1: this moment that might be similar to that time as well. Right,

1087
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 1: So you have an explosion of mobilization in the nineteen

1088
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 1: sixties around opposition to the war, civil rights, women's rights,

1089
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 1: and then nineteen sixty eight you have not just the

1090
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 1: Chicago Democratic Convention that collapses into this police riot, but

1091
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 1: then Richard Nixon is elected, and all of a sudden

1092
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: you have this kind of mass demobilization of all of

1093
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 1: these forces that had that had coalesced throughout the sixties,

1094
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 1: and you know, the most vivid example being students for

1095
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 1: a Democratic Society meeting in nineteen sixty nine at their convention,

1096
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 1: and a faction there wins, takes power of sts, dissolves

1097
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 1: it and forms the Weather Underground and goes off to

1098
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 1: be domestic terrorists for the next For the next couple

1099
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 1: of years, the Black Panther Party, you know, collapses amid

1100
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 1: you know, the FEDS infiltrating it and sowing internal dissension

1101
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 1: and and the and the and the crackdown, and then

1102
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 1: all of this internal fighting and the Women's Liberation movement

1103
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 1: coins the phrase trashing, which is basically if you look

1104
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:46,440
Speaker 1: at basic how it was defined at the time as

1105
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:48,920
Speaker 1: what you would call calling out or canceling or whatever,

1106
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: and so trashing became this this all consuming phenomenon among

1107
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 1: a lot of subculture, subcultural movements of the left, and

1108
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 1: they just demobile and withdrew from mass politics. Some some

1109
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:07,880
Speaker 1: went and joined communes, some dropped out entirely. Some did

1110
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 1: quote unquote party building, which is like basically trying to

1111
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 1: build a mass like communist party or something. And so

1112
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 1: you see elements of that today that the People's Party

1113
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 1: is like an interesting example, and that comes front to mind,

1114
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 1: like you're so frustrated at the inability of the institutions

1115
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 1: that exist that you're like, well, I'm out of here,

1116
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 1: I'm done, I'm going to build my own thing. But

1117
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 1: then there's so much infighting in that thing that it

1118
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 1: never goes anywhere. And the People's Party is five years

1119
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 1: old at this point and hasn't run a candidate yet,

1120
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 1: and if you follow their Twitter feed or whether, they

1121
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 1: just are constantly fighting with each other. And that's not

1122
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 1: to pick on them, they're just a kind of symptom

1123
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 1: of this demobilization. So that's how one half of it

1124
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 1: goes on the other half is within these organizations. Nineteen

1125
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 1: seventies is also when you had say at c our Club,

1126
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,440
Speaker 1: nay Roll, Pro Choice America. A lot of these organizations

1127
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 1: unionized at that time, which I think is kind of

1128
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 1: representative of it's a good thing, and it's also representative

1129
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 1: of the inward turning look of the movements that they

1130
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:13,320
Speaker 1: no longer feel like their original mission of making the

1131
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 1: world a better place and taking power and changing the

1132
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 1: world as possible. So like, okay, well, what can we do, Well,

1133
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 1: we can fix some of the problems here, And you

1134
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 1: have much less patience when you're in retreat for all

1135
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 1: the inequities and the bs that you're putting up with

1136
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 1: at work. When you're on the march, when you can

1137
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 1: see your goal, then it's much easier to say, Okay,

1138
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 1: this guy's being a jerk. But like, it's much more

1139
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 1: important to win the Iowa caucuses when there's no Iowa CAUCUSUS,

1140
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 1: when there's no organizing kind of element to the movement,

1141
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 1: nothing to pull it together. And so you see that

1142
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:50,440
Speaker 1: when when the Sanders campaign ends, collapses into it. You know,

1143
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 1: on the other hand, though you would have thought that,

1144
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 1: especially some of these organizations that are more on the

1145
01:01:55,880 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 1: sort of like liberal to progressive persuasion. You would have thought, Okay,

1146
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 1: we got Trump out, we got Biden in, we got

1147
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 1: a shot here, we got a trifecta. There's real like

1148
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 1: it's not gonna be everything, but there's some real things

1149
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 1: on the table maybe we could do. But that wasn't.

1150
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 1: That wasn't galvanizing at all. It wasn't And I talked

1151
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:17,520
Speaker 1: to that. Trump was so Trump Like the shock election

1152
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 1: of Trump pulled people together for six months or so,

1153
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 1: give or take. Yeah, there was a galvanizing effect there.

1154
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 1: But Biden's election you would think like, Okay, now you

1155
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 1: have the American Rescue Plan, let's make it as big

1156
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 1: as we can. Boom, we made it as big as

1157
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 1: we can. Okay, now we're moving on to build back better, like,

1158
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 1: let's make sure we're And some organizations you know, did

1159
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 1: channel a lot of energy Sunrise. I think that held

1160
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 1: them together while they were pushing for their Civilian Conservation Corps,

1161
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 1: which they got to like the one yard line. Yeah,

1162
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 1: but you're right, so many other organizations were like, eh,

1163
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 1: it's interesting, we have a trifecta that's probably going to

1164
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:58,959
Speaker 1: be gone in the mid terms for a generation, right

1165
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 1: or ten years and plus years, right, but let's deal

1166
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:05,560
Speaker 1: with these internal problems now. It turned out not to

1167
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 1: be the same demobilization. A lot of people blamed Obama

1168
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: for the demobilization in two thousand and nine because he actively,

1169
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 1: did you know, purposely demobilize the energy that brought him there.

1170
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 1: Biden never really had a movement, right, He just kind

1171
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 1: of won by default by consolidation of the elites. So

1172
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 1: there wasn't necessarily much to demobilize when it got there.

1173
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 1: But yeah, you would think that it would have brought

1174
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 1: these organizations together, but it didn't. Well, it's not a

1175
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 1: fun piece for someone like me to read, but I

1176
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 1: will count it as progress that the piece can be

1177
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 1: written and not just immediately trashed and you like run

1178
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 1: out of town as a horrible person. And maybe that's

1179
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 1: the start of making these organizations more functional again, because ultimately,

1180
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 1: you know, if you do care about moving the country

1181
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:55,080
Speaker 1: in a left direction, people having healthcare, of people having

1182
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:58,120
Speaker 1: job secured high wages, union rights, all of those sorts

1183
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:00,200
Speaker 1: of things, these are the organizations that are supposed to

1184
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 1: be doing this work in this town. So Brian, thank

1185
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 1: you for thank you for pulling it together. I really

1186
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:07,440
Speaker 1: recommend people go. We'll put the link in the description.

1187
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 1: You know, I know, we talked for a long time

1188
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:11,680
Speaker 1: about it, but there really is a lot in here

1189
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:14,160
Speaker 1: that is worth reading and sitting with and thinking about.

1190
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 1: So please go and check that out as well. Great

1191
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:18,400
Speaker 1: to see Ryan, you too. All right, welcome back to

1192
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:22,760
Speaker 1: another edition of Breaking Points Intercept edition Today, I'm very

1193
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 1: happy to be joined by my colleague Lee Fong to

1194
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 1: talk about his latest story. We could put that one

1195
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 1: up if you have it here. He takes a deep

1196
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:36,000
Speaker 1: dive into the evolution of the union busting what they

1197
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 1: call kind of union avoidance, and there are other euphemisms

1198
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 1: for it as well. Corporations hire consulting firms to come

1199
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 1: in and talk with managers and talk with staff in

1200
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 1: order to encourage those staff not to form a union.

1201
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 1: That's as old as the Pinkertons. And even before Lee

1202
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:55,920
Speaker 1: is writing on a new phenomenon within this industry in

1203
01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:00,080
Speaker 1: which these union avoidance firms are adopting the language of

1204
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:04,480
Speaker 1: social justice in order to appeal directly to workers whose

1205
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:09,080
Speaker 1: primary concern is that with the goal of stopping them

1206
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:11,600
Speaker 1: from forming a union. So, Lee, Lee, when did you

1207
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 1: first notice this happening? And how did you kind of

1208
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 1: how did you how did you spot this trend starting

1209
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 1: to develop. Hey, Ryan, thanks for having me. I'm based

1210
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 1: in San Francisco, and you know, I've covered the labor movement,

1211
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 1: the push for better wages and benefits for a very

1212
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 1: long time. Also, I'm based in San Francisco, and really

1213
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:36,840
Speaker 1: over the last four or five years, there's been kind

1214
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 1: of an unprecedented worker rebellion in Silicon Valley. There's been

1215
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 1: walkouts at Google, you know, protests a lot of the

1216
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:48,439
Speaker 1: big tech companies. Workers for really the very first time

1217
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 1: in this sector have pushed towards a labor union or

1218
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:58,160
Speaker 1: joining the labor movement in some way, and in many

1219
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 1: cases these workers have been sidelined. They've can push back,

1220
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:08,600
Speaker 1: and corporations here in the tech industry are adopting the

1221
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 1: language of social justice, these demands for racial representation as

1222
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 1: a way to kind of co opt the energy from

1223
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 1: these these labor movements and to tell workers, you know,

1224
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:24,480
Speaker 1: you don't need to join the labor union. I've kind

1225
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 1: of watched from the outside this dynamic and I got

1226
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 1: interested in it, and I've been researching and attending webinars

1227
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 1: and a recent conference from the union avoidance industry, and

1228
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 1: really seem that this dynamic of employers, human resource departments,

1229
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:49,120
Speaker 1: union avoidance consultants adopting the kind of language and tactics

1230
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 1: of the social justice movement, this has gone coast to coast.

1231
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:56,000
Speaker 1: It's not really just in Silicon Valley anymore. We're seeing

1232
01:06:56,040 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 1: companies all over the country attempting to, you know, adopt

1233
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 1: DEI or diversity, equity and inclusion officers or consultants kind

1234
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:10,520
Speaker 1: of draping the company in the language and symbols of

1235
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:14,840
Speaker 1: social justice to basically tell workers who are demanding more

1236
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 1: rights at work or interested in joining a union, Hey,

1237
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:21,840
Speaker 1: you don't need to join this third party, this labor union.

1238
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:25,360
Speaker 1: If you're interested in getting politically active or getting more

1239
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:29,480
Speaker 1: rights at work, the company is already a social justice organization.

1240
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 1: And this has been a really new tactic, but it's

1241
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:37,800
Speaker 1: become commonplace within the union avoidant industry. And one of

1242
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 1: the things that I like about your reporting, not just

1243
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:41,920
Speaker 1: in this piece, but in general, is that you often

1244
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:47,080
Speaker 1: go to these industry conferences. I've only done that a

1245
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 1: handful of times, and every time I have, I've been

1246
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:53,160
Speaker 1: amazed at the honesty on display. And you know what,

1247
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 1: you're able to get and you don't have to sneak in.

1248
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:59,040
Speaker 1: I don't think you snuck into these particular ones when

1249
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 1: I've gone just kind of register as press and they say, hey, welcome,

1250
01:08:03,040 --> 01:08:05,440
Speaker 1: you know, welcome to our conference, and then they tell

1251
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:10,240
Speaker 1: everything that they're thinking. So what, you know, what, since

1252
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:11,960
Speaker 1: you've been going to these types of things for a while,

1253
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:14,960
Speaker 1: what what have you noticed change and what did you

1254
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:16,479
Speaker 1: you know what, what was the kind of what was

1255
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:18,720
Speaker 1: the kind of kind of mood at these conferences or

1256
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:22,840
Speaker 1: webinars behind this this advice that they were giving to

1257
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:25,400
Speaker 1: companies that you need to lean in on this this

1258
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 1: particular set of language and politics in order to you know,

1259
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 1: suck out the energy of the union drive. Well, look,

1260
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:36,639
Speaker 1: you know, since the nineteen seventies, the union avoidance industry

1261
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:40,400
Speaker 1: has really transformed in many ways. You know, going back

1262
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:45,280
Speaker 1: to the early nineteenth century, union avoidance was very violent.

1263
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:47,760
Speaker 1: You know, the famously they're the Pinkerton's, one of the

1264
01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:50,479
Speaker 1: first kind of private security companies that were hired to

1265
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 1: block workers on the picket line, to sometimes have violent

1266
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 1: clashes with the union activists. But you know, if you

1267
01:08:59,400 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 1: zoom up to the nineteen seventies, the employers than US

1268
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:08,599
Speaker 1: Chamber of Commerce, the National Association, and manufacturers, big business

1269
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:12,320
Speaker 1: at large got more sophisticated. They decided, Hey, we need

1270
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:16,080
Speaker 1: to hire industrial psychologists. We need to kind of gather

1271
01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:19,600
Speaker 1: lots of intelligence from workers and really understand them and

1272
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:22,200
Speaker 1: understand their values and figure out ways to make them

1273
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 1: hate labor unions to make them more loyal to managers.

1274
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:27,880
Speaker 1: One of the groups that kind of got born out

1275
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:34,040
Speaker 1: of this new crusade against unions was the Council for

1276
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:40,120
Speaker 1: a Union Free Environment CEUE. This is a group that

1277
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 1: every year kind of brings together the biggest employers in America,

1278
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:47,400
Speaker 1: the consultants and lawyers and human resource departments that help

1279
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 1: in union avoidance, and they discussed the latest tactics on

1280
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:57,160
Speaker 1: how to block labor unions, to stop strikes, to defeat

1281
01:09:58,040 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 1: union elections. I attended their latest conference in spring, and

1282
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 1: you know, there are many large employers. There were consultants

1283
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 1: hired by Amazon for their warehouse drives from the top

1284
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:13,840
Speaker 1: executive at kelobs who dealt with labor relations issues, who

1285
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:16,920
Speaker 1: attempted to lock serial workers who were striking last year

1286
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 1: out and replaced them with you know what the union

1287
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:25,320
Speaker 1: activists called scabs and you know you watched I watched

1288
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:28,760
Speaker 1: this conference for two days and I registered under my name,

1289
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 1: and you know there's no subterfuge there. And really, the

1290
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:37,679
Speaker 1: whole conference was littered with the language of uh, you know, hey,

1291
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:41,400
Speaker 1: we've got to talk about workplace belonging. We're not union busters,

1292
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:46,959
Speaker 1: we're diversity consultants. We need to talk about the importance

1293
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:53,719
Speaker 1: of diversity, of matching diverse managers with diverse employee groups.

1294
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:55,960
Speaker 1: We need to look at how a lot of these

1295
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:59,760
Speaker 1: millennial and Gen Z workers are not just focused on

1296
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 1: the bread and butter of wages and benefits. A lot

1297
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:06,519
Speaker 1: of them are interested in respect in the workplace and saying, hey,

1298
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:10,400
Speaker 1: why isn't my corporation taking a stance on these social

1299
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:13,519
Speaker 1: justice movements around identity, whether that's Black Lives Matter or

1300
01:11:13,680 --> 01:11:19,439
Speaker 1: Meet Too, or or some of these other movements. For

1301
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 1: these union avoidance consultants, they were thinking, hey, how do

1302
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:24,599
Speaker 1: we get ahead of this. How do we pivot very

1303
01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:28,679
Speaker 1: quickly and co opt some of this language and position

1304
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:33,800
Speaker 1: our corporations in a way that deflates interests in labor

1305
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 1: unions and make sure it ensures that our workers remain

1306
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:40,280
Speaker 1: loyal to us and never join a labor union. Yeah,

1307
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:43,040
Speaker 1: which helps to explain why you why you see so

1308
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:47,880
Speaker 1: many statements coming expressing the values of social justice from

1309
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 1: a lot of these corporations, because I think people initially thought, well,

1310
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:55,080
Speaker 1: this is probably consumer facing stuff. You know, this company

1311
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:58,080
Speaker 1: wants to be on, you know, the popular side of

1312
01:11:58,080 --> 01:12:01,679
Speaker 1: this particular issue. But it turns out that it might

1313
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:04,880
Speaker 1: more likely be an internal facing thing. They're putting out

1314
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:08,200
Speaker 1: a statement because they want to convince their staff that, hey,

1315
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:11,400
Speaker 1: we are a place that lives your values, and so

1316
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:14,280
Speaker 1: since we are one, then you don't need to form

1317
01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 1: a union against us like we are were you. You know,

1318
01:12:17,320 --> 01:12:19,600
Speaker 1: we believe in all of the same things that you do.

1319
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:22,680
Speaker 1: And one of the thinking about the National Association of

1320
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:26,000
Speaker 1: Manufacturers and the Chamber of Commerce campaign that you talked about,

1321
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:29,560
Speaker 1: one of their most impressive kind of propaganda victories in

1322
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:33,760
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies, when they pulled in those industrial psychology

1323
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 1: consultants and developed a more sophisticated strategy, was to convince

1324
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:42,040
Speaker 1: their workers and convince the country at large that unions

1325
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:44,280
Speaker 1: were just hot beds of corruption. You know that if

1326
01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:47,439
Speaker 1: you join a union, then your dues are going to

1327
01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:51,719
Speaker 1: go off to some mafiosa, who is you know, who's

1328
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:54,839
Speaker 1: going to live high on the hog off of your wages.

1329
01:12:55,520 --> 01:13:00,240
Speaker 1: And they very successfully embedded that idea in popular culture

1330
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:02,000
Speaker 1: and also in the minds of workers, so that when

1331
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:04,639
Speaker 1: there would be a union driver that they could say, look,

1332
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:05,640
Speaker 1: why do you want to do that? You're just going

1333
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:09,639
Speaker 1: to hand your money over to corrupt people. Now, union

1334
01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 1: corruption doesn't seem to be the propaganda angle anymore. You

1335
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:17,519
Speaker 1: write about how the argument now that management is making

1336
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:22,320
Speaker 1: is actually unions are hot beds of sexism and of racism.

1337
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:24,160
Speaker 1: Can you can you talk abit a little bit about

1338
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 1: that shift in the way that unions are being portrayed

1339
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:30,559
Speaker 1: by management. Yeah, And you know, just in terms of

1340
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:34,880
Speaker 1: that history, I would highly recommend from Blackjacks to Briefcases

1341
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:37,600
Speaker 1: a book on the history of union avoidance or a

1342
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:40,160
Speaker 1: while of writing from John Logan. He really looks at

1343
01:13:40,160 --> 01:13:44,480
Speaker 1: how corporate consultants and the major employers in the seventies

1344
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:49,760
Speaker 1: they hired special operatives to created, you know, daily newspapers

1345
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 1: only about union corruption and allegations against unions, and it

1346
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:56,320
Speaker 1: would mail them every day to their employees who are

1347
01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:58,680
Speaker 1: considering a union to just kind of convince them to

1348
01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:02,200
Speaker 1: hate labor and see them as actually a malicious force,

1349
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:05,960
Speaker 1: and you really encourage not just vote against a labor

1350
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:09,120
Speaker 1: union in the union campaign, but a decertification. We saw

1351
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:12,720
Speaker 1: thousands of decertifications of companies that were unionized that then

1352
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:16,160
Speaker 1: voted to get rid of their unions out of born,

1353
01:14:16,200 --> 01:14:18,800
Speaker 1: out of this Chamber of Commerce and National Association of

1354
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:22,760
Speaker 1: Manufacturers led effort. But zoom up to today. You know

1355
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:27,960
Speaker 1: now that that argument against labor unions is based on

1356
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:31,200
Speaker 1: identity based concerns. You know, it's very in vogue over

1357
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:35,559
Speaker 1: the last few years to talk about systemic racism or

1358
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:41,120
Speaker 1: systemic sexism. And you know, one example is this North

1359
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:46,799
Speaker 1: Carolina based company, No Evil Foods, vegan food manufacturing company

1360
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:49,519
Speaker 1: that makes imitation meat products sold in Whole Foods and

1361
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:55,160
Speaker 1: other high end groceries. When they faced a labor union effort,

1362
01:14:56,160 --> 01:15:02,559
Speaker 1: they had their captive meat. When they're lecturing their workers

1363
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:04,920
Speaker 1: on why not to join a union, they said, hey, look,

1364
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:10,479
Speaker 1: labor unions are known for their sexism. These these folks, uh,

1365
01:15:10,479 --> 01:15:13,760
Speaker 1: you know, are hotbeds are of sexual harassments. If you

1366
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 1: really have progressive values, you would remain loyal to the

1367
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:20,439
Speaker 1: to their corporation, not join one of these labor unions

1368
01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:24,360
Speaker 1: that's uh, you know, known for for bigotry or what

1369
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:26,679
Speaker 1: have you. And you know, we've seen similar dynamics around

1370
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:30,000
Speaker 1: the country. Uh some of these uh anti union consultants

1371
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:33,400
Speaker 1: like Rick Berman has created mailers and and TV ads

1372
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:37,719
Speaker 1: that really heightened the focus on you know, past racism

1373
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:40,960
Speaker 1: or bigotry or issues within labor unions to kind of

1374
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:44,120
Speaker 1: do kind of sort of a jiu jitsu and say, hey,

1375
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:47,760
Speaker 1: if you are interested in justice, why would you join

1376
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:52,360
Speaker 1: the labor movement that's that's really known for, uh, you know,

1377
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 1: a variety of forms of of hatred or bigotry right

1378
01:15:57,080 --> 01:16:00,559
Speaker 1: in the irony of course is that Yes, it's obviously

1379
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:03,759
Speaker 1: it's true. There is a there are examples throughout history

1380
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:06,920
Speaker 1: of racism and sexism, some of it even endemic to

1381
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:11,000
Speaker 1: it you know in the past. But today, you know,

1382
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:13,080
Speaker 1: if a worker is in a union, you know they

1383
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:18,360
Speaker 1: probably have stronger protections against discrimination or against harassment in

1384
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:21,000
Speaker 1: the workplace. But it's it's it's important I think for

1385
01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:24,200
Speaker 1: workers to understand you know, what the what the management

1386
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:27,000
Speaker 1: propaganda campaign is and this is this is really helpful

1387
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:31,639
Speaker 1: and terrific reporting. So Lee, thanks for joining this Intercept

1388
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:36,599
Speaker 1: edition of Breaking Points ran thanks for having me, all right,

1389
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:39,519
Speaker 1: and so stick around. We'll have more Breaking Points for

1390
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:42,599
Speaker 1: you right after this and check out Lee's article at

1391
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:45,960
Speaker 1: the Intercept dot com. All right, guys, so AOC made

1392
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:50,280
Speaker 1: some headlines because she refused to back Biden for twenty

1393
01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:55,040
Speaker 1: twenty four, at least not this early. Well, you're not

1394
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:57,760
Speaker 1: going to see. I watched the entire interview. It's on

1395
01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:00,320
Speaker 1: the scene and YouTube channel. There's another part just before

1396
01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:05,080
Speaker 1: this where Dana Bash asks Alexander Ocacchio Cortez. She's like

1397
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:09,360
Speaker 1: flabbergasted at the fact that AOC is backing some candidates

1398
01:17:09,360 --> 01:17:14,639
Speaker 1: who are primary ing other Democrats. She's like, who are

1399
01:17:14,680 --> 01:17:19,719
Speaker 1: you turning on your colleagues? And you know, AOC is like, well,

1400
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:22,799
Speaker 1: I mean I agree more with the people who I'm endorsing,

1401
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:29,000
Speaker 1: and she's like, hmm, how impolite. So it's funny the

1402
01:17:29,080 --> 01:17:32,600
Speaker 1: sentiment that Dana Bash has, which is like this insider

1403
01:17:33,160 --> 01:17:37,400
Speaker 1: conventional wisdom of like, don't you ever endorse against other

1404
01:17:37,439 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 1: Democrats if you're an elected Democrat because that's bad form,

1405
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:46,760
Speaker 1: And uh yeah, that's just pathetic that Dana Bash is like,

1406
01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:50,800
Speaker 1: of course, mirroring the sentiment of the Nancy Pelosis and

1407
01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:53,840
Speaker 1: the Chuck Schumer's and the ultimate corporate Democrat insiders. But yeah,

1408
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:56,920
Speaker 1: I mean when it comes to AOC, Look, she didn't

1409
01:17:56,920 --> 01:17:59,280
Speaker 1: really go to Baffernina Turner, like on the last day

1410
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:01,759
Speaker 1: she endorsed me to turn her tepidly in like an

1411
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:06,000
Speaker 1: email or some shit. So she doesn't always buck the party.

1412
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:09,679
Speaker 1: Oftentimes she falls in line for the party. So but anyway,

1413
01:18:10,120 --> 01:18:13,559
Speaker 1: here's the portion on Joe Biden. This is interesting. We'll

1414
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:15,800
Speaker 1: watch and then we'll talk about it before we go,

1415
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:18,400
Speaker 1: I just want to ask about President Biden. He is

1416
01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:20,479
Speaker 1: saying he's going to run again in twenty twenty four.

1417
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:24,960
Speaker 1: Will you support him? You know, if the president chooses

1418
01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:28,160
Speaker 1: to run again in twenty twenty four. I mean, first

1419
01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:31,000
Speaker 1: of all, I'm focused on winning this majority right now

1420
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:34,479
Speaker 1: and preserving a majority this year in twenty twenty two,

1421
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:36,320
Speaker 1: So we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

1422
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:39,600
Speaker 1: But I think if the president has a vision, and

1423
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:42,679
Speaker 1: that's something certainly we're all willing to entertain and examine

1424
01:18:42,680 --> 01:18:49,559
Speaker 1: when when the time comes, that's not a yes. The

1425
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:57,120
Speaker 1: way she says that, that's not a yes. She's like mortified. Yeah,

1426
01:18:57,160 --> 01:19:00,200
Speaker 1: you know, I think we should endorse when we get

1427
01:19:00,240 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 1: to it, but I believe that the president has been

1428
01:19:02,280 --> 01:19:16,400
Speaker 1: doing a very good job. So oh my god. Every

1429
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:19,240
Speaker 1: now and then you see the flashes of the old

1430
01:19:19,360 --> 01:19:23,160
Speaker 1: outsider AOC, but oftentimes you get this, you know, she

1431
01:19:23,240 --> 01:19:25,639
Speaker 1: goes right back to, oh fuck, I'm an insider. Yeah,

1432
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:28,360
Speaker 1: he's doing a great job. I think you know what

1433
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:33,080
Speaker 1: I'm saying, trying to like soften the good thing she said,

1434
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:35,560
Speaker 1: of like, I'm not gonna endorse him now, She's like,

1435
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:37,639
Speaker 1: but I mean, he's doing a really great job. Obviously,

1436
01:19:38,479 --> 01:19:42,000
Speaker 1: Uh No, he's not. He's not doing anywhere anything even

1437
01:19:42,080 --> 01:19:44,400
Speaker 1: remotely close to a good job. And you know that,

1438
01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:46,760
Speaker 1: you know that, you know that his approval rating is

1439
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:49,320
Speaker 1: lower than Donald Trump's was at this point in his presidency.

1440
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:52,519
Speaker 1: How can you defend Biden given that he's doing nothing.

1441
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:54,479
Speaker 1: He's sitting on his ass all day. He's not signing

1442
01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 1: any good executive orders. He's not eliminating student loan debt,

1443
01:19:57,560 --> 01:19:59,720
Speaker 1: he's not legalizing marijuana, he's not freeing the non violent

1444
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:01,920
Speaker 1: drug ven you're not lowering drug prices, which he can

1445
01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:04,880
Speaker 1: do with the swipe of a pen. He's not even

1446
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:07,160
Speaker 1: breaking up build back Better and doing standalone bills on

1447
01:20:07,240 --> 01:20:09,360
Speaker 1: like universal pre k for example, which is something that

1448
01:20:09,400 --> 01:20:11,400
Speaker 1: would at least put political pressure on the right and

1449
01:20:11,439 --> 01:20:13,479
Speaker 1: on Joe Manchin and on Kearson cinem He's doing nothing. Aos,

1450
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:15,680
Speaker 1: He's doing nothing. He's doing nothing for the love of

1451
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:20,000
Speaker 1: God so far. And you know, should he run again?

1452
01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:23,080
Speaker 1: I think that I you know, I think it's it's

1453
01:20:23,479 --> 01:20:25,960
Speaker 1: we'll take a look at it. Right now. We need

1454
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:29,880
Speaker 1: to focus on winning a majority instead of a presidential election. Congresswoman,

1455
01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:31,720
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it.

1456
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:35,959
Speaker 1: I mean, this is all just, this is all so useless.

1457
01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:38,680
Speaker 1: If you're going to be the left flank in Congress

1458
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:42,120
Speaker 1: and you're not out there hammering Biden to sign more

1459
01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:44,479
Speaker 1: executive orders and to sign them on the important issues,

1460
01:20:45,320 --> 01:20:47,479
Speaker 1: if you're not hammering Mansion and Cinema every time you

1461
01:20:47,479 --> 01:20:50,639
Speaker 1: open your mouth and saying they're blocking progress. It's their fault,

1462
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:53,200
Speaker 1: it's their problem. They need to get out of the way.

1463
01:20:53,280 --> 01:20:55,400
Speaker 1: They need to listen to the opinion polls. Joe Manchin

1464
01:20:55,439 --> 01:20:57,559
Speaker 1: needs to listen to the West Virginia voters who want

1465
01:20:57,640 --> 01:20:59,760
Speaker 1: him to do build back Better, who want him to

1466
01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:01,680
Speaker 1: do you universal pre quay, who want him to do

1467
01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 1: elder care, who want him to lower description drug prices,

1468
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:09,360
Speaker 1: who want him to do extended child tax benefit. If

1469
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:15,400
Speaker 1: you're not saying that, you're part of the problem. Look,

1470
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:17,320
Speaker 1: when you're in Washington for an ex standard period of time,

1471
01:21:17,320 --> 01:21:20,240
Speaker 1: people seem to genuinely lose touch, you know, and they

1472
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:22,559
Speaker 1: start to I can play that insider outsider game. Well,

1473
01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:28,160
Speaker 1: how's that working? A Breaking Points Marshall here, A lot

1474
01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:30,280
Speaker 1: of folks has been asking breaking Points to cover the

1475
01:21:30,360 --> 01:21:33,360
Speaker 1: topic of inflation for budget dive angles. So I thought,

1476
01:21:33,439 --> 01:21:35,720
Speaker 1: what better that I speak to an expert who's been

1477
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:38,240
Speaker 1: writing about the Federal Reserve and its role in the

1478
01:21:38,280 --> 01:21:41,439
Speaker 1: current crisis of speaking with Chris Leonard. He is the

1479
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:44,360
Speaker 1: author of The Lords of Easy Money, How the Federal

1480
01:21:44,400 --> 01:21:49,120
Speaker 1: Reserve Broke the American Economy. You've got an interesting take here.

1481
01:21:49,520 --> 01:21:52,040
Speaker 1: I'd love you just to sum up as we start,

1482
01:21:52,160 --> 01:21:56,920
Speaker 1: what the current just political consensus is regarding Joe Biden

1483
01:21:57,439 --> 01:21:59,559
Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve, Like, who is to blame for the

1484
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:04,559
Speaker 1: currentqomic system we're in right now? Yeah? So obviously, right now,

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01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:08,320
Speaker 1: in the summer of twenty twenty two, before midterm election,

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01:22:08,439 --> 01:22:12,880
Speaker 1: we are seeing just tremendous economic volatility, and not to

1487
01:22:12,920 --> 01:22:14,799
Speaker 1: put too fine a point on it, but we're watching

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01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:18,439
Speaker 1: sort of a slow motion stock market crash. Just this week,

1489
01:22:18,920 --> 01:22:21,280
Speaker 1: the Standard and Poors five hundred, for example, entered what

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01:22:21,320 --> 01:22:25,080
Speaker 1: they call bear market territory. And really this is just

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01:22:25,160 --> 01:22:30,120
Speaker 1: the beginning of a lot of economic readjustment and downward

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01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:32,479
Speaker 1: asset prices that we're going to see over the next year.

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01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:37,760
Speaker 1: So we're seeing kind of an economic calamity unfold at

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01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:42,640
Speaker 1: probably the worst possible time for the Biden administration and

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01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:45,719
Speaker 1: for the Democrats who control Congress. I mean, the political

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01:22:45,800 --> 01:22:50,200
Speaker 1: conventional wisdom is very simple. When you have economic turmoil

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01:22:50,280 --> 01:22:53,120
Speaker 1: like this during the midterm year, it really helps the

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01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:57,240
Speaker 1: party out of powers. So the most likely outcome is

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01:22:57,280 --> 01:22:59,640
Speaker 1: that this will be sort of be rocket fuel to

1500
01:22:59,760 --> 01:23:03,040
Speaker 1: the Republican attempts to take over Congress this fall. But

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01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:05,720
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to say is that the sort of

1502
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:09,080
Speaker 1: economic earthquake we're seeing this year, with super high inflation

1503
01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:12,720
Speaker 1: and with the stock market crash, the ground has been

1504
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:15,640
Speaker 1: set for this for years. What we're seeing is the

1505
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:20,320
Speaker 1: expression of a year's long situation that really has very

1506
01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:22,439
Speaker 1: little to do with who's been in the White House

1507
01:23:22,479 --> 01:23:26,519
Speaker 1: for the last seventeen months or so. And what's interesting here, then,

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01:23:26,720 --> 01:23:29,800
Speaker 1: is what about the fact that there are prominent Democrats

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01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:33,840
Speaker 1: like Larry Summers who last year were saying we're on

1510
01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:38,280
Speaker 1: the path to inflation, these big economic issues, and they

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01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:40,800
Speaker 1: weren't focused on the Federal reserve though. So, how do

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01:23:40,840 --> 01:23:43,680
Speaker 1: you think about the fact that it's not just Republicans

1513
01:23:44,040 --> 01:23:46,879
Speaker 1: saying this is Biden's spending decisions, but also some centrist

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01:23:46,880 --> 01:23:50,479
Speaker 1: Democrats as well too. Well, yeah, I think what you're

1515
01:23:50,520 --> 01:23:53,160
Speaker 1: getting at is what is the root of the inflation here?

1516
01:23:53,320 --> 01:23:56,000
Speaker 1: And you've got some folks on the Democratic side saying, hey,

1517
01:23:56,680 --> 01:24:00,400
Speaker 1: it was this government spending, you know, particularly the COVID

1518
01:24:00,479 --> 01:24:03,960
Speaker 1: relief plans that pumped a ton of money into what

1519
01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:06,479
Speaker 1: we call the real economy in the sense that you know,

1520
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:09,080
Speaker 1: the federal government was sending checks to people, people were

1521
01:24:09,160 --> 01:24:12,760
Speaker 1: buying more stuff. Demand was really high, and that fed inflation.

1522
01:24:13,880 --> 01:24:17,200
Speaker 1: That's fiscal responsibility. That's what happens with Congress and the Treasure.

1523
01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:20,639
Speaker 1: But let's not forget what's going on with monetary policy,

1524
01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:24,200
Speaker 1: with the Federal Reserve and the so called money supply.

1525
01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:28,559
Speaker 1: That's a key part of this story. Now when we're

1526
01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:33,559
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, Larry Summer's complaints. We're not going

1527
01:24:33,640 --> 01:24:36,920
Speaker 1: to really figure out, honestly, how much of a role

1528
01:24:36,960 --> 01:24:40,280
Speaker 1: the federal spending had in this inflation for years. It's

1529
01:24:40,320 --> 01:24:41,960
Speaker 1: going to take a long time to kind of do

1530
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:47,439
Speaker 1: the autopsy on this disaster of the high inflation. What

1531
01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:50,439
Speaker 1: we do know for a fact is that the Federal

1532
01:24:50,479 --> 01:24:54,640
Speaker 1: Reserve Bank has made this situation much worse than it

1533
01:24:54,680 --> 01:24:57,879
Speaker 1: otherwise would be, and that was because of policy decisions

1534
01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:00,759
Speaker 1: the FED made over the last decade to keep interest

1535
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:04,600
Speaker 1: rates at zero while pumping trillions of dollars into the

1536
01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:08,639
Speaker 1: banking system, which pumped up stock prices and created major

1537
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:12,840
Speaker 1: asset bubbles. So what that means is that today, as

1538
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:15,519
Speaker 1: the FED tries to fight inflation, as it tries to

1539
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:18,160
Speaker 1: hike interest rates, and it tries to draw this money

1540
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:21,519
Speaker 1: out of the banking system, it's going to create a

1541
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:25,040
Speaker 1: massive downturn in the financial markets. That's why we're seeing

1542
01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:30,360
Speaker 1: very fast, very rapid downturns, not just in stocks, but

1543
01:25:30,479 --> 01:25:35,280
Speaker 1: in bonds and other assets. So if this is a

1544
01:25:35,280 --> 01:25:40,479
Speaker 1: almost multi decade story of bad Federal Reserve policies, what

1545
01:25:40,760 --> 01:25:45,320
Speaker 1: are we we being Joe Biden, we being a Republican Congress,

1546
01:25:45,479 --> 01:25:48,160
Speaker 1: we being maybe President Trump or President de Sanders in

1547
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:51,599
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, what can actually be done to address

1548
01:25:51,600 --> 01:25:56,960
Speaker 1: this issue? Okay, so, first of all, unfortunately, I think

1549
01:25:57,000 --> 01:25:59,920
Speaker 1: one of the big points of what I've come to

1550
01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:03,800
Speaker 1: from reporting this is that there's no easy way out

1551
01:26:03,960 --> 01:26:06,800
Speaker 1: of the position where we are now. And I want

1552
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:09,920
Speaker 1: to sort of restate here that the Federal Reserve and

1553
01:26:09,960 --> 01:26:14,080
Speaker 1: our Central Bank is incredibly powerful and incredibly influential, and

1554
01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:16,200
Speaker 1: I think folks really need to pay attention to what

1555
01:26:16,240 --> 01:26:20,040
Speaker 1: the FED did between twenty ten and twenty twenty. The

1556
01:26:20,080 --> 01:26:25,080
Speaker 1: FED reshaped our financial system. It kept interest rates pegged

1557
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:29,400
Speaker 1: at zero for roughly a decade with one small intermission

1558
01:26:30,160 --> 01:26:34,160
Speaker 1: that's never been done before. It is hugely consequential. And

1559
01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:37,240
Speaker 1: at the same time, the FED was pumping trillions of

1560
01:26:37,280 --> 01:26:41,000
Speaker 1: dollars into the banking system through this program called Quantitative Easy.

1561
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:43,080
Speaker 1: This all had a huge effect. Why did they're in

1562
01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:47,880
Speaker 1: quick question? Why did they do those two things? Huge question?

1563
01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:51,680
Speaker 1: You know, the FED took on what I would call

1564
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:57,400
Speaker 1: really a super activist role after twenty ten, and you know,

1565
01:26:57,479 --> 01:27:00,400
Speaker 1: we were emerging from a banking crisis back then. Of course,

1566
01:27:00,479 --> 01:27:05,080
Speaker 1: economic growth was weak, Unemployment was high, and the chairman

1567
01:27:05,160 --> 01:27:08,559
Speaker 1: of the FED was Ben Bernanke, whose memoir is entitled

1568
01:27:08,840 --> 01:27:11,160
Speaker 1: The Courage to Act, and I think that tells you

1569
01:27:11,200 --> 01:27:14,120
Speaker 1: everything you need to know about his sort of philosophy.

1570
01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:17,479
Speaker 1: And the Bernanky theory was, Hey, we got to do

1571
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:20,599
Speaker 1: whatever we can to try to stimulate economic growth. And

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01:27:20,640 --> 01:27:23,240
Speaker 1: that sounds great, of course, but look at the tools

1573
01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:26,000
Speaker 1: the FED has. The FED can't put a shovel in

1574
01:27:26,040 --> 01:27:28,599
Speaker 1: anybody's hand, it can't educate a kid, it can't build

1575
01:27:28,600 --> 01:27:31,120
Speaker 1: a dam. All the FED can do is create new

1576
01:27:31,120 --> 01:27:34,000
Speaker 1: money on Wall Street. All this new money that the

1577
01:27:34,040 --> 01:27:36,559
Speaker 1: FED creates has created inside the bank accounts of twenty

1578
01:27:36,560 --> 01:27:40,479
Speaker 1: four banks on Wall Street. So the FED pushed these

1579
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:44,559
Speaker 1: policies really is kind of like a jobs program. It

1580
01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:46,920
Speaker 1: was sort of like this modern New Deal, if you will.

1581
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:52,719
Speaker 1: It was a jobs program through the vehicle of pumping

1582
01:27:52,840 --> 01:27:56,519
Speaker 1: cash into Wall Street while keeping interest rates at zero

1583
01:27:57,040 --> 01:28:02,280
Speaker 1: to promote more lending and frankly risky lending. So the

1584
01:28:02,560 --> 01:28:05,320
Speaker 1: question then would become, and I know you're having you know,

1585
01:28:05,320 --> 01:28:08,320
Speaker 1: read your book. We did a great realignment episode with you.

1586
01:28:08,920 --> 01:28:12,120
Speaker 1: The point of your perspective is not to just excuse

1587
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:16,439
Speaker 1: the Biden administration in terms of its economic approcers actions.

1588
01:28:17,160 --> 01:28:22,160
Speaker 1: How would you just articulate or say the administration's performance

1589
01:28:22,160 --> 01:28:24,240
Speaker 1: on these economic issues is ben since twenty twenty one

1590
01:28:24,240 --> 01:28:29,280
Speaker 1: when they assumed office. I'm not trying to write an

1591
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:34,160
Speaker 1: apology for the Biden administration at all. I'm not what

1592
01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:36,519
Speaker 1: I think the message I really want to deliver is

1593
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:41,720
Speaker 1: seventeen months is a very small time frame when you

1594
01:28:41,760 --> 01:28:46,040
Speaker 1: look at America's political economy, and you know, the Biden

1595
01:28:46,080 --> 01:28:50,519
Speaker 1: administration has not been in office that long. When you're

1596
01:28:50,560 --> 01:28:52,960
Speaker 1: looking at a timeframe of ten years, it has not

1597
01:28:53,080 --> 01:28:55,840
Speaker 1: been that long. And we could talk a lot about

1598
01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:59,280
Speaker 1: what the administration has done. It passed the one point

1599
01:28:59,360 --> 01:29:02,880
Speaker 1: nine trillion COVID Relief Act very quickly after it got

1600
01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:07,000
Speaker 1: into office. It tried to pass a much more ambitious

1601
01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:09,840
Speaker 1: spending plan and build back better, which of course never

1602
01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:18,720
Speaker 1: took But these policies haven't had an enormous and consequential effect.

1603
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:20,720
Speaker 1: That's what I'm trying to say here is, you know,

1604
01:29:20,800 --> 01:29:24,920
Speaker 1: the American political cycle is on these little two year increments,

1605
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:29,760
Speaker 1: and you know that's not enough time to create significant

1606
01:29:29,800 --> 01:29:33,240
Speaker 1: change in the country. So you know, the Biden administration

1607
01:29:33,439 --> 01:29:36,679
Speaker 1: is in many significant ways, just starting to get its

1608
01:29:36,720 --> 01:29:39,320
Speaker 1: feet on the ground. I mean, the personnel have been

1609
01:29:39,320 --> 01:29:41,559
Speaker 1: in place for maybe a year. You're starting to see

1610
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:45,160
Speaker 1: some new actions from the Federal Trade Commission and other bodies,

1611
01:29:45,880 --> 01:29:50,000
Speaker 1: But the effect has been shallow, it has not been deep.

1612
01:29:50,120 --> 01:29:53,440
Speaker 1: That's my take on it. So when we look particularly

1613
01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:57,320
Speaker 1: at some of the economic carnage that is not just

1614
01:29:57,400 --> 01:30:00,559
Speaker 1: unfolding now on the stock market, but it's probably yet

1615
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:05,920
Speaker 1: to come, you can't simply describe why that's happening by

1616
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:08,640
Speaker 1: pointing at a White House administration that's only about a

1617
01:30:08,760 --> 01:30:11,400
Speaker 1: year and a half into the job. In the way

1618
01:30:11,439 --> 01:30:13,479
Speaker 1: i'd sum up your perspective, I like your use of

1619
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:17,320
Speaker 1: the word autopsy earlier. So maybe when someone like he

1620
01:30:17,400 --> 01:30:20,000
Speaker 1: writes a book about this decade in twenty thirty five

1621
01:30:20,080 --> 01:30:22,920
Speaker 1: or something, the story isn't going to focus as much

1622
01:30:23,000 --> 01:30:26,680
Speaker 1: on spending decisions during a nine month period before Joe

1623
01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:29,439
Speaker 1: Manchin and Kristen Cinema got started. It's going to be

1624
01:30:29,960 --> 01:30:33,799
Speaker 1: during this twenty tens post two thousand and eight financial

1625
01:30:33,880 --> 01:30:37,839
Speaker 1: crisis period up through the present day. The Federal Reserve

1626
01:30:38,040 --> 01:30:40,920
Speaker 1: separate from the Trump administration, separate from the Obama administration,

1627
01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:45,120
Speaker 1: separate from the Biden administration. Obviously the chairman's are appointed

1628
01:30:45,120 --> 01:30:47,400
Speaker 1: by the administrations is going to play just a huge

1629
01:30:47,439 --> 01:30:48,760
Speaker 1: Is that a good way of summing up the way

1630
01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:51,559
Speaker 1: we should probably think about this moment. I think that's

1631
01:30:51,560 --> 01:30:53,439
Speaker 1: a perfect way to sum it up. And I was

1632
01:30:53,479 --> 01:30:57,880
Speaker 1: also being pretty specific too, in the sense that one

1633
01:30:57,920 --> 01:31:01,600
Speaker 1: of the key dynamics we're seeing right now is incredibly

1634
01:31:01,680 --> 01:31:07,200
Speaker 1: high inflation, shockingly high inflation above eight percent, which has

1635
01:31:07,280 --> 01:31:10,240
Speaker 1: really caught everybody by surprise, even Larry Summers, to the

1636
01:31:10,320 --> 01:31:12,839
Speaker 1: degree that has happened and the degree to which it's embedded.

1637
01:31:13,840 --> 01:31:17,639
Speaker 1: I'm very fascinated with the previous period of very high

1638
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:21,160
Speaker 1: inflation in the nineteen seventies, and what I learned from

1639
01:31:21,200 --> 01:31:25,960
Speaker 1: studying that era is it took a solid thirty years

1640
01:31:26,479 --> 01:31:29,040
Speaker 1: to do that autopsy where you're really going back and

1641
01:31:29,080 --> 01:31:32,519
Speaker 1: trying to distinguish, Okay, what caused this, Why did this

1642
01:31:32,600 --> 01:31:35,120
Speaker 1: happen at this moment, why did it happen so severely?

1643
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:39,160
Speaker 1: And as we look at this moment, it probably will

1644
01:31:39,200 --> 01:31:41,559
Speaker 1: take a while to figure out, Okay, how much did

1645
01:31:41,560 --> 01:31:43,960
Speaker 1: the COVID relief play into this, how much did the

1646
01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:47,680
Speaker 1: supply chain bottlenet caused by COVID play into this. How

1647
01:31:47,720 --> 01:31:50,559
Speaker 1: much did the Fed's monetary policy play into this. It's

1648
01:31:50,600 --> 01:31:52,760
Speaker 1: going to take a while to figure that out. But

1649
01:31:53,880 --> 01:31:56,280
Speaker 1: to the point you made, yes, the key thing to

1650
01:31:56,360 --> 01:32:01,000
Speaker 1: understand or the sort of the deep infrastratetructure of our

1651
01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:05,439
Speaker 1: economy and our political economic system, the central Bank, the

1652
01:32:06,800 --> 01:32:11,000
Speaker 1: dysfunction we see in the democratic institutions like Congress and

1653
01:32:11,040 --> 01:32:13,439
Speaker 1: the White House over the last fifteen years, that's going

1654
01:32:13,479 --> 01:32:16,479
Speaker 1: to play a critical role in it, for sure. And

1655
01:32:16,520 --> 01:32:19,000
Speaker 1: there is simply no doubt. There is simply no doubt

1656
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:21,880
Speaker 1: that when historians look back at this period right now

1657
01:32:21,920 --> 01:32:24,960
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two, they are going to talk about

1658
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:29,160
Speaker 1: the previous decade of what the FED did. It is

1659
01:32:29,240 --> 01:32:33,400
Speaker 1: hard to describe it without sounding hyperbolic. The FED quintupled

1660
01:32:34,160 --> 01:32:37,120
Speaker 1: the monetary base in our country. They printed five times

1661
01:32:37,160 --> 01:32:39,840
Speaker 1: as much money in a decade as they printed in

1662
01:32:39,880 --> 01:32:43,599
Speaker 1: a century. That's an enormous change and it's had huge

1663
01:32:43,600 --> 01:32:47,800
Speaker 1: effects and one reason why we're seeing this volatility we're

1664
01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:50,880
Speaker 1: seeing today. Christer Fre'd love you to close on this

1665
01:32:50,920 --> 01:32:53,799
Speaker 1: final question. Like you said, you've studied this seventies eighties

1666
01:32:53,840 --> 01:32:57,479
Speaker 1: period and that's really coming towards the end of the

1667
01:32:57,560 --> 01:32:59,720
Speaker 1: New Deal era. It's coming towards the end of the

1668
01:32:59,760 --> 01:33:03,360
Speaker 1: Great Society. Just the inflation issue in terms of reducing

1669
01:33:03,400 --> 01:33:06,639
Speaker 1: the ambitions of government to it positively impact the economy.

1670
01:33:06,800 --> 01:33:09,640
Speaker 1: That's a huge political issue in this country now that

1671
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:12,040
Speaker 1: we're coming out of the COVID moment, now that we're

1672
01:33:12,040 --> 01:33:13,640
Speaker 1: coming out of this point where it seemed as if

1673
01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:16,080
Speaker 1: Joe Biden could be the next fd ARC. You just

1674
01:33:16,120 --> 01:33:19,600
Speaker 1: give us just like your political analysis of how inflation

1675
01:33:19,920 --> 01:33:22,800
Speaker 1: politics and this just spending dynamic is going to play

1676
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:25,679
Speaker 1: a role in basically constraining government. I mean, giving my perspective,

1677
01:33:25,680 --> 01:33:27,479
Speaker 1: but like it seems that this is going to really

1678
01:33:27,520 --> 01:33:31,559
Speaker 1: constrain government in an unexpected level, given how people thought

1679
01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:33,600
Speaker 1: COVID was going to reshape everything when it came to

1680
01:33:33,640 --> 01:33:37,920
Speaker 1: the system. I think that's right, and I think that

1681
01:33:37,920 --> 01:33:42,400
Speaker 1: they're you know, I don't want to sound alarmists, but

1682
01:33:42,439 --> 01:33:48,720
Speaker 1: there's some fundamental things at play here. Inflation politics is

1683
01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:52,080
Speaker 1: very explosive when you look back at countries that experience

1684
01:33:52,160 --> 01:33:55,439
Speaker 1: high inflation. Turkey's going through it right now. We've been

1685
01:33:55,439 --> 01:34:00,000
Speaker 1: through this in the nineteen seventies. Other nations of experience

1686
01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:05,839
Speaker 1: against hyper inflation. It's terribly which nation experienced hyper inflation.

1687
01:34:06,520 --> 01:34:10,120
Speaker 1: I like to stay away from talking about hyperinflation in

1688
01:34:10,160 --> 01:34:14,320
Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties, not to be cute about it, but

1689
01:34:14,360 --> 01:34:17,639
Speaker 1: it's obvious that hyper inflation in the nineteen thirties led

1690
01:34:17,680 --> 01:34:22,680
Speaker 1: to the destruction of democracy in Germany. It's a very instructive,

1691
01:34:22,920 --> 01:34:27,000
Speaker 1: kind of scary profile to read about, not just because

1692
01:34:27,040 --> 01:34:29,160
Speaker 1: of the rise of fascism, I mean, of course, because

1693
01:34:29,400 --> 01:34:31,840
Speaker 1: this is why I don't like talking about this. The

1694
01:34:31,880 --> 01:34:38,240
Speaker 1: effects of inflation are incredibly, incredibly destructive politically, people lose

1695
01:34:38,280 --> 01:34:43,080
Speaker 1: faith in institutions, It makes it harder and harder to

1696
01:34:43,120 --> 01:34:49,640
Speaker 1: get by. It really stokes social instability and anger in

1697
01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:54,400
Speaker 1: the short term for sure. And to me, what's important

1698
01:34:54,479 --> 01:34:57,599
Speaker 1: is the moment in which this is hitting. You talked

1699
01:34:57,640 --> 01:34:59,760
Speaker 1: about the inflation in the nineteen seventies kind of being

1700
01:34:59,800 --> 01:35:01,840
Speaker 1: one one of the nails in the coffin of the

1701
01:35:01,880 --> 01:35:05,839
Speaker 1: New Deal. That is absolutely what happened, and that is accurate.

1702
01:35:06,680 --> 01:35:09,400
Speaker 1: And I think we all kind of recognize that the

1703
01:35:09,520 --> 01:35:13,839
Speaker 1: sort of the political landscape in America today is changing.

1704
01:35:14,400 --> 01:35:17,320
Speaker 1: There's kind of the death of one political order and

1705
01:35:17,360 --> 01:35:21,479
Speaker 1: we're looking at the creation of another. Potentially, and you know,

1706
01:35:21,520 --> 01:35:25,840
Speaker 1: these midterm elections, it doesn't just feel anymore like this

1707
01:35:26,000 --> 01:35:29,440
Speaker 1: very predictable safe seesaw between kind of you know, conservative

1708
01:35:29,439 --> 01:35:33,599
Speaker 1: Republicans and more liberal Democrats, like that consensus is gone

1709
01:35:34,120 --> 01:35:37,799
Speaker 1: and a lot of the guardrails are levining effects aren't

1710
01:35:37,800 --> 01:35:41,280
Speaker 1: there anymore. And so to me, what's important is that

1711
01:35:41,360 --> 01:35:45,160
Speaker 1: this is hitting our country at a moment when things

1712
01:35:45,160 --> 01:35:50,639
Speaker 1: are already acknowledged to be fragile politically fragile. We hear

1713
01:35:50,720 --> 01:35:54,040
Speaker 1: so much about under you know, the lack of strength

1714
01:35:54,080 --> 01:35:58,080
Speaker 1: of our institutions and the political volatility that we're seeing.

1715
01:35:58,640 --> 01:36:02,000
Speaker 1: So I think it it's really, really, really important to

1716
01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:08,840
Speaker 1: pay attention to how this economic volatility can plain into

1717
01:36:09,080 --> 01:36:13,479
Speaker 1: our political system. Very well, said Christopher. We're lucky just

1718
01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:15,479
Speaker 1: to shout the book out for folks who want to

1719
01:36:15,520 --> 01:36:17,800
Speaker 1: go deeper into this topic and reference any recent op

1720
01:36:17,920 --> 01:36:21,720
Speaker 1: eds you've written. Well, I would say, look at the

1721
01:36:21,800 --> 01:36:24,519
Speaker 1: risk of being predictable, the Lords of Easy Money, This

1722
01:36:24,560 --> 01:36:27,840
Speaker 1: book I wrote really tries to calmly walk through the

1723
01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:30,760
Speaker 1: last decade of monetary policy, and obviously I think it

1724
01:36:30,840 --> 01:36:34,960
Speaker 1: helps explain to a large extent why we're seeing what

1725
01:36:34,960 --> 01:36:37,439
Speaker 1: we're seeing economically, right now and what the effects have been.

1726
01:36:37,800 --> 01:36:40,000
Speaker 1: And again, I just think we need to be really

1727
01:36:40,080 --> 01:36:42,479
Speaker 1: clear eyed as we look at this stuff so that

1728
01:36:42,520 --> 01:36:44,960
Speaker 1: we can make the best judgments we can make as

1729
01:36:45,000 --> 01:36:47,759
Speaker 1: citizens as to like which way we should go forward

1730
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:51,760
Speaker 1: and what policies we should support. Great, thank you so

1731
01:36:51,840 --> 01:36:54,400
Speaker 1: much for joining us on Breaking Points. Thank you, I

1732
01:36:54,400 --> 01:36:56,679
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Hey, then, my name is James Lee. Welcome

1733
01:36:56,680 --> 01:36:59,839
Speaker 1: to another segment of fifty one forty nine on Breaking Points,

1734
01:37:00,160 --> 01:37:02,960
Speaker 1: and today we're going to talk about inflation and the

1735
01:37:03,120 --> 01:37:07,280
Speaker 1: core rot underlying the American economy. Gas prices are now

1736
01:37:07,280 --> 01:37:10,280
Speaker 1: at a level we have never seen before. Overnight, Triple

1737
01:37:10,320 --> 01:37:13,639
Speaker 1: A reported the nationwide average for a gallon of regular

1738
01:37:14,000 --> 01:37:17,760
Speaker 1: reached five dollars. That's up nearly two dollars from one

1739
01:37:17,840 --> 01:37:21,120
Speaker 1: year ago. And also growing concerns about the economy, and

1740
01:37:21,160 --> 01:37:24,240
Speaker 1: that includes the increasing pain at the pump. I want

1741
01:37:24,280 --> 01:37:27,679
Speaker 1: to show you this a gas station in downtown LA.

1742
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:31,160
Speaker 1: Look at that top eight dollars for a regular gallon

1743
01:37:31,240 --> 01:37:34,000
Speaker 1: of gas. That's right, Gases at an all time high,

1744
01:37:34,040 --> 01:37:37,840
Speaker 1: and the increase seems more permanent than temporary. Supply chain

1745
01:37:37,880 --> 01:37:42,120
Speaker 1: issues are becoming more frequent, more disruptive highlighted by the

1746
01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:49,679
Speaker 1: recent baby formula shortage fiasco. There's definitely this feeling of uncertainty, anxiety, unrest,

1747
01:37:49,760 --> 01:37:54,200
Speaker 1: so many troubling indicators that what's to come is only

1748
01:37:54,640 --> 01:37:57,040
Speaker 1: going to get worse. And I, like many of you,

1749
01:37:57,120 --> 01:38:01,120
Speaker 1: desperately want to know what's going on, why this is happening,

1750
01:38:01,360 --> 01:38:04,120
Speaker 1: and how we can fix it. And many of us

1751
01:38:04,240 --> 01:38:06,559
Speaker 1: will of course turn to the media to provide such

1752
01:38:06,560 --> 01:38:09,800
Speaker 1: insights to help us understand what is going on with

1753
01:38:09,880 --> 01:38:13,439
Speaker 1: our country. Tonight, Americans are reacting to the soaring price

1754
01:38:13,479 --> 01:38:16,759
Speaker 1: at the pump, the national average overnight reaching five dollars

1755
01:38:16,840 --> 01:38:20,240
Speaker 1: a gallon for the first time ever. President Biden again

1756
01:38:20,280 --> 01:38:23,599
Speaker 1: today putting the blame on Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine

1757
01:38:23,680 --> 01:38:27,400
Speaker 1: and saying the administration is pushing to do more. Inflation

1758
01:38:27,600 --> 01:38:31,679
Speaker 1: is a real challenge to American families. Today's inflation report

1759
01:38:32,240 --> 01:38:36,000
Speaker 1: confirm what Americas already know Pruden's price Psycho City in

1760
01:38:36,040 --> 01:38:39,080
Speaker 1: America hard well. First, the presidents come out with his

1761
01:38:39,280 --> 01:38:43,080
Speaker 1: plan to fight inflation. It's not a plan. It's an embarrassment.

1762
01:38:43,400 --> 01:38:45,160
Speaker 1: If a high school kid turned that in as an

1763
01:38:45,200 --> 01:38:47,479
Speaker 1: economics paper, they'd get a D minus. But for a

1764
01:38:47,520 --> 01:38:50,439
Speaker 1: president to say that at the time of record high

1765
01:38:50,520 --> 01:38:53,760
Speaker 1: inflation for prices, for gas, for groceries, he deserves an

1766
01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:57,920
Speaker 1: f because it's full of finger pointing, false accusations, and Maria,

1767
01:38:58,240 --> 01:39:03,000
Speaker 1: he takes no responsibility for his economic malpractice, because that's

1768
01:39:03,040 --> 01:39:05,920
Speaker 1: what this is. I have this fundamental view that much

1769
01:39:05,960 --> 01:39:08,599
Speaker 1: of the inflation has been generated by some very large

1770
01:39:09,520 --> 01:39:14,599
Speaker 1: policy shifts in the United States. We change our immigration policies,

1771
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:19,519
Speaker 1: and I'm talking about legal immigration. Okay, we're down two million,

1772
01:39:20,280 --> 01:39:24,160
Speaker 1: oh two million new entrants to the United States legally.

1773
01:39:25,360 --> 01:39:28,240
Speaker 1: That is very inflation area. When we have full employment,

1774
01:39:28,280 --> 01:39:30,719
Speaker 1: when we have these jobs, think about all the need

1775
01:39:30,840 --> 01:39:33,320
Speaker 1: for workers. What does that could mean when we start

1776
01:39:33,400 --> 01:39:36,760
Speaker 1: implementing our infrastructure bill, when it's going to take up

1777
01:39:36,880 --> 01:39:39,000
Speaker 1: quite a few new jobs, where those employees are going

1778
01:39:39,040 --> 01:39:41,880
Speaker 1: to be coming from is going to create rising wages.

1779
01:39:41,920 --> 01:39:44,639
Speaker 1: And if you look at earnings, many companies are saying

1780
01:39:44,720 --> 01:39:48,000
Speaker 1: rising wages are a part of their degradation of their margins.

1781
01:39:48,200 --> 01:39:52,639
Speaker 1: So the mainstream media coverage once again has been predictably shallow. Right,

1782
01:39:52,800 --> 01:39:56,879
Speaker 1: Biden is blaming Putin for price hikes, Republicans are blaming

1783
01:39:56,920 --> 01:40:02,360
Speaker 1: Biden for economic malpractice, and corporate executives like Larry Fink

1784
01:40:02,400 --> 01:40:06,120
Speaker 1: of Blackrock are blaming the lack of low wage immigrants,

1785
01:40:06,439 --> 01:40:10,560
Speaker 1: and I have to acknowledge inflation is a very complicated

1786
01:40:10,720 --> 01:40:14,240
Speaker 1: topic and there's plenty of criticism to go around. Yet

1787
01:40:14,360 --> 01:40:17,760
Speaker 1: I find the mainstream in corporate media's coverage of this

1788
01:40:17,880 --> 01:40:21,920
Speaker 1: issue to not be very helpful in explaining or exposing

1789
01:40:21,960 --> 01:40:24,960
Speaker 1: the fundamental rot at the heart of the American economy.

1790
01:40:25,479 --> 01:40:29,200
Speaker 1: There are certainly some root causes and discussions that receive

1791
01:40:29,439 --> 01:40:33,240
Speaker 1: little to no attention from the corporate media, perhaps ignored

1792
01:40:33,520 --> 01:40:36,960
Speaker 1: on purpose. Take the oil market, for example, pre COVID

1793
01:40:37,000 --> 01:40:40,040
Speaker 1: in December of twenty nineteen, global oil consumption was about

1794
01:40:40,080 --> 01:40:43,160
Speaker 1: one hundred million barrels per day, but in the immediate

1795
01:40:43,200 --> 01:40:46,439
Speaker 1: months after the pandemic hit in early twenty twenty, demand

1796
01:40:46,520 --> 01:40:50,439
Speaker 1: dropped to below ninety million barrels per day. Oil demand

1797
01:40:50,479 --> 01:40:54,320
Speaker 1: has since recovered and is forecasted to exceed twenty nineteen

1798
01:40:54,400 --> 01:40:58,000
Speaker 1: levels by Q four, twenty twenty two. The global supply

1799
01:40:58,080 --> 01:41:01,439
Speaker 1: of oil, however, has lagged and is expected to continue

1800
01:41:01,439 --> 01:41:04,720
Speaker 1: to lag at least until next year. Now, let's take

1801
01:41:04,720 --> 01:41:07,800
Speaker 1: a look at prices before the pandemic. The price of

1802
01:41:07,840 --> 01:41:12,160
Speaker 1: West Texas Intermediate WTI crewde hovered around fifty to sixty

1803
01:41:12,160 --> 01:41:15,120
Speaker 1: dollars per barrel in early twenty twenty, and then immediate

1804
01:41:15,160 --> 01:41:19,080
Speaker 1: months after the pandemic hit, prices collapsed, at one point,

1805
01:41:19,200 --> 01:41:22,200
Speaker 1: dropping to below twenty dollars per barrel, but has been

1806
01:41:22,240 --> 01:41:25,320
Speaker 1: on a steady climb ever since, now to almost one

1807
01:41:25,439 --> 01:41:28,160
Speaker 1: hundred and ten dollars per barrel. I also just want

1808
01:41:28,200 --> 01:41:30,960
Speaker 1: to say really quickly that I understand that with oil

1809
01:41:31,000 --> 01:41:34,320
Speaker 1: and gas there is a climate and sustainability consideration. We

1810
01:41:34,439 --> 01:41:38,960
Speaker 1: absolutely need to invest in newer, more sustainable technologies, but

1811
01:41:39,000 --> 01:41:40,840
Speaker 1: I want to put that aside for one moment and

1812
01:41:40,920 --> 01:41:43,960
Speaker 1: consider this issue from the lens of basic economics, which

1813
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:47,559
Speaker 1: is that demand for oil has recovered, but the supply

1814
01:41:47,720 --> 01:41:51,479
Speaker 1: still hasn't caught back up to that demand, causing prices

1815
01:41:51,520 --> 01:41:54,479
Speaker 1: to inflate. President Biden has already called upon the oil

1816
01:41:54,520 --> 01:41:58,080
Speaker 1: sector to hike production. Quote. We think these companies need

1817
01:41:58,120 --> 01:42:00,960
Speaker 1: to be stepping up, a senior administry official said in

1818
01:42:01,000 --> 01:42:04,360
Speaker 1: a background call with reporters. There is nothing standing in

1819
01:42:04,400 --> 01:42:07,840
Speaker 1: their way, So why don't oil companies want to produce more?

1820
01:42:08,040 --> 01:42:11,160
Speaker 1: After all, they are flushed with cash and at the

1821
01:42:11,160 --> 01:42:14,000
Speaker 1: current prices, there's a lot of money to be made.

1822
01:42:14,280 --> 01:42:16,760
Speaker 1: To fully understand this, we need to walk through two

1823
01:42:16,840 --> 01:42:21,280
Speaker 1: important metrics companies use to make capital allocation decisions IRR

1824
01:42:21,600 --> 01:42:25,519
Speaker 1: and hurdle rate. IRR stands for internal rate of return,

1825
01:42:25,600 --> 01:42:28,720
Speaker 1: and it represents how much return the company expects on

1826
01:42:28,800 --> 01:42:31,920
Speaker 1: any given project that they're evaluating. The hurdle rate is

1827
01:42:31,960 --> 01:42:34,680
Speaker 1: the minimum acceptable rate of return a business requires on

1828
01:42:34,720 --> 01:42:39,080
Speaker 1: a capital project, oftentimes represented by something called whack weighted

1829
01:42:39,080 --> 01:42:42,080
Speaker 1: average cost of capital. To put it in the simplest

1830
01:42:42,160 --> 01:42:46,559
Speaker 1: terms possible, if the return on a project is expected

1831
01:42:46,600 --> 01:42:49,920
Speaker 1: to exceed the required costs of the investment, that it

1832
01:42:49,960 --> 01:42:53,200
Speaker 1: makes sense to move forward. But if the return is

1833
01:42:53,320 --> 01:42:56,080
Speaker 1: less than the cost of the investment, then it doesn't

1834
01:42:56,080 --> 01:42:59,519
Speaker 1: make sense to move forward. So one would expect right now,

1835
01:42:59,600 --> 01:43:02,519
Speaker 1: with the the supply and demand fundamentals of the current market,

1836
01:43:02,880 --> 01:43:05,519
Speaker 1: it would be a no brainer for oil companies to

1837
01:43:05,560 --> 01:43:10,040
Speaker 1: invest more into drilling to capitalize on these higher prices.

1838
01:43:10,280 --> 01:43:15,240
Speaker 1: Sounds logical, right, But here is the reality that the

1839
01:43:15,320 --> 01:43:20,439
Speaker 1: media oftentimes chooses to ignore for whatever reason. According to

1840
01:43:20,560 --> 01:43:25,080
Speaker 1: Julius Crime's paper entitled the Value of Nothing, Capital versus

1841
01:43:25,120 --> 01:43:29,760
Speaker 1: Growth in the Intellectual Journal American affairs quote. Today's shareholder

1842
01:43:29,840 --> 01:43:34,000
Speaker 1: driven corporations are not necessarily or even primarily motivated to

1843
01:43:34,040 --> 01:43:37,719
Speaker 1: engage in the traditional methods of growing a business. Companies

1844
01:43:37,720 --> 01:43:41,680
Speaker 1: are often highly incentivized to pursue financial engineering and valuation

1845
01:43:41,840 --> 01:43:46,719
Speaker 1: multiple expansion rather than invest to increase earnings. Eliminating profit

1846
01:43:46,760 --> 01:43:50,719
Speaker 1: streams can actually increase shareholder returns when the remaining company

1847
01:43:50,760 --> 01:43:54,559
Speaker 1: trades at a higher valuation, especially if share buybacks or

1848
01:43:54,600 --> 01:43:57,960
Speaker 1: other cash returns feature in the process. So what this

1849
01:43:58,040 --> 01:44:01,920
Speaker 1: means is that even in situation where it might be profitable,

1850
01:44:02,560 --> 01:44:06,720
Speaker 1: shareholders prefer that companies return cash to them rather than

1851
01:44:06,840 --> 01:44:10,519
Speaker 1: invest it in projects with a longer term time horizon.

1852
01:44:10,800 --> 01:44:14,479
Speaker 1: How rotten is that companies will pass up investments that

1853
01:44:14,520 --> 01:44:18,000
Speaker 1: would create jobs and opportunity for people and would grow

1854
01:44:18,040 --> 01:44:22,439
Speaker 1: their profits just to put that money back into the shareholders' pockets.

1855
01:44:22,800 --> 01:44:25,639
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what's happened here with oil and gas.

1856
01:44:26,040 --> 01:44:29,960
Speaker 1: According to recent reporting from Bloomberg, Big Oil spends on investors,

1857
01:44:30,120 --> 01:44:34,000
Speaker 1: not output. Pro long crude crunch, the second highest cash

1858
01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:38,400
Speaker 1: hallever has not been enough to spur investment and Warry

1859
01:44:38,479 --> 01:44:43,160
Speaker 1: the tide will shift again. Major companies prefer to reward investors.

1860
01:44:43,439 --> 01:44:45,200
Speaker 1: Let's walk through some of the charts in this article

1861
01:44:45,200 --> 01:44:48,240
Speaker 1: because I think it's very revealing. First, Western super majors

1862
01:44:48,280 --> 01:44:53,040
Speaker 1: like Shell, Total Energies, BP, Exonomobile, and Chevron just reported

1863
01:44:53,080 --> 01:44:56,040
Speaker 1: their second highest cash flow ever, but in terms of

1864
01:44:56,040 --> 01:44:59,920
Speaker 1: their spending, it's half that of twenty thirteen when Crewe

1865
01:45:00,400 --> 01:45:03,960
Speaker 1: last top one hundred dollars. And companies like Exon and

1866
01:45:04,040 --> 01:45:07,639
Speaker 1: Chevron are spending more on investor returns than on production,

1867
01:45:07,920 --> 01:45:10,800
Speaker 1: with the companies spending more in recent years on stock

1868
01:45:10,880 --> 01:45:16,000
Speaker 1: buybacks and dividends than capital expenditures. So these oil companies

1869
01:45:16,040 --> 01:45:20,000
Speaker 1: are flushed with cash, investing less of it, giving more

1870
01:45:20,000 --> 01:45:22,479
Speaker 1: of it to shareholders, and many of us are stuff

1871
01:45:22,560 --> 01:45:26,320
Speaker 1: dealing with the pain at the pump. And maybe even

1872
01:45:26,400 --> 01:45:29,320
Speaker 1: more revealing, let's take a look at how it's being

1873
01:45:29,360 --> 01:45:32,559
Speaker 1: portrayed in the corporate media. Food and grocery stores up

1874
01:45:32,640 --> 01:45:35,879
Speaker 1: eleven point nine percent, it's the highest increase since nineteen

1875
01:45:36,040 --> 01:45:39,320
Speaker 1: seventy eight. We also know that the war in Ukraine

1876
01:45:39,400 --> 01:45:41,839
Speaker 1: really pushing up prices for a lot of wheat products,

1877
01:45:41,840 --> 01:45:44,679
Speaker 1: so cookies and pasta. So you know what the problem

1878
01:45:44,720 --> 01:45:47,520
Speaker 1: is that you'd say, oh, well, I'll eat cheaper tonight

1879
01:45:47,640 --> 01:45:50,599
Speaker 1: rice and beans, and you know what, Everything is more expensive.

1880
01:45:50,800 --> 01:45:52,560
Speaker 1: Everything is, yes, but I can't find anything that is

1881
01:45:52,640 --> 01:45:56,200
Speaker 1: less expensive. To Tao is now down nine of the

1882
01:45:56,240 --> 01:46:00,000
Speaker 1: past ten weeks. Classic panel discussion going on here. Yeah,

1883
01:46:00,240 --> 01:46:02,880
Speaker 1: food is more expensive and many can't afford to eat.

1884
01:46:03,320 --> 01:46:06,840
Speaker 1: Gas is more expensive. Everything is more expensive, but the Tao?

1885
01:46:07,000 --> 01:46:11,000
Speaker 1: What do we do about the Tao? That is unfortunately

1886
01:46:11,240 --> 01:46:14,120
Speaker 1: more or less the type of discourse that you're most

1887
01:46:14,280 --> 01:46:18,240
Speaker 1: likely to find in mainstream media. Americans are struggling, but

1888
01:46:18,400 --> 01:46:21,960
Speaker 1: what about stocks? Crime continues in its paper quote. From

1889
01:46:21,960 --> 01:46:26,160
Speaker 1: the standpoint of economic theory, this represents an irrational refusal

1890
01:46:26,200 --> 01:46:30,240
Speaker 1: to maximize profits, but with regard to maximizing equity value,

1891
01:46:30,360 --> 01:46:34,360
Speaker 1: it is an eminently rational strategy. Lowering hurdle rates would

1892
01:46:34,400 --> 01:46:38,120
Speaker 1: mean investing in projects that might increase earnings but which

1893
01:46:38,400 --> 01:46:41,920
Speaker 1: would likely degrade earning's quality. In other words, metrics like

1894
01:46:41,960 --> 01:46:46,000
Speaker 1: return on assets would deteriorate and valuation multiples would probably fall.

1895
01:46:46,439 --> 01:46:50,120
Speaker 1: Avoiding such investments and instead returning cash to shareholders to

1896
01:46:50,200 --> 01:46:54,720
Speaker 1: further prop up valuations becomes a preferable approach to maximizing

1897
01:46:54,720 --> 01:46:59,120
Speaker 1: shareholder value, even if it foregoes substantial profit opportunities. But

1898
01:46:59,160 --> 01:47:02,240
Speaker 1: If the link between shareholder value and profits is severed,

1899
01:47:02,680 --> 01:47:06,120
Speaker 1: then the justifications for shareholder primacy and much else in

1900
01:47:06,160 --> 01:47:09,960
Speaker 1: economic theory collapse. I think the word collapse is too

1901
01:47:09,960 --> 01:47:13,400
Speaker 1: often used hyperbolically, but in this case, it's an outcome

1902
01:47:13,439 --> 01:47:16,080
Speaker 1: that is legitimately looming on the horizon if we don't

1903
01:47:16,080 --> 01:47:20,360
Speaker 1: make some changes, because the rot we've just discussed is present,

1904
01:47:20,760 --> 01:47:23,400
Speaker 1: and not just the oil and gas industry, but in

1905
01:47:23,479 --> 01:47:27,959
Speaker 1: every industry. In order to financially engineer better valuations, better multiples,

1906
01:47:27,960 --> 01:47:31,960
Speaker 1: better earnings, better whatever new vogue metric that Wall Street

1907
01:47:31,960 --> 01:47:36,640
Speaker 1: happens to care about. Pharmaceutical companies are outsourcing production to

1908
01:47:36,960 --> 01:47:41,280
Speaker 1: overseas manufacturers. Computer chip manufacturers like Intel are letting a

1909
01:47:41,439 --> 01:47:46,519
Speaker 1: direct competitor produce semiconductors for them. Aerospace manufacturers can market

1910
01:47:46,560 --> 01:47:51,160
Speaker 1: and sell commercial aircrafts that they neither design nor build.

1911
01:47:51,600 --> 01:47:54,200
Speaker 1: I could go on and on, but these decisions, compounded

1912
01:47:54,600 --> 01:47:58,559
Speaker 1: will lead to the eminent and self inflicted collapse of

1913
01:47:58,760 --> 01:48:02,120
Speaker 1: America's data to back this up, according to a paper

1914
01:48:02,160 --> 01:48:05,880
Speaker 1: from the National Bureau of Economic Research, well from nineteen

1915
01:48:05,880 --> 01:48:09,080
Speaker 1: eighty nine to twenty seventeen, thirty four trillion dollars of

1916
01:48:09,120 --> 01:48:12,519
Speaker 1: real equity wealth was created by the US corporate sector.

1917
01:48:12,760 --> 01:48:15,360
Speaker 1: We estimate that forty four percent of this increase was

1918
01:48:15,400 --> 01:48:19,320
Speaker 1: attributable to a reallocation of rewards to shareholders in a

1919
01:48:19,400 --> 01:48:24,280
Speaker 1: decelerating economy, primarily at the expense of labor compensation. Economic

1920
01:48:24,320 --> 01:48:27,040
Speaker 1: growth accounted for just twenty five percent, followed by a

1921
01:48:27,080 --> 01:48:30,639
Speaker 1: lower risk price eighteen percent and lower interest rates fourteen percent.

1922
01:48:31,120 --> 01:48:35,200
Speaker 1: The truth is, multinational corporations aren't behold into any country

1923
01:48:35,320 --> 01:48:39,560
Speaker 1: or community, and they don't have a moral obligation to society.

1924
01:48:39,840 --> 01:48:43,880
Speaker 1: The only obligation is to transfer wealth to its shareholders,

1925
01:48:44,360 --> 01:48:47,519
Speaker 1: and in tough times, the majority of that wealth transfer

1926
01:48:47,760 --> 01:48:51,479
Speaker 1: comes at the expense of either labor or the expense

1927
01:48:51,680 --> 01:48:56,200
Speaker 1: of consumers. Right, building something like a robust and reliable

1928
01:48:56,240 --> 01:49:00,559
Speaker 1: supply chain takes investment, but as we've seen recently, it's

1929
01:49:00,640 --> 01:49:05,480
Speaker 1: also critical in maintaining the stability and wellness of our society.

1930
01:49:06,120 --> 01:49:08,679
Speaker 1: In contrast, the period nineteen fifty two to nineteen eighty

1931
01:49:08,720 --> 01:49:11,720
Speaker 1: eight experienced less than one third of the growth in

1932
01:49:11,800 --> 01:49:14,920
Speaker 1: market equity, but economic growth accounted for more than one

1933
01:49:15,000 --> 01:49:17,640
Speaker 1: hundred percent of it. But of course, everything is a

1934
01:49:17,680 --> 01:49:21,639
Speaker 1: trade off. Do we want to incentivize a financialized economy

1935
01:49:21,640 --> 01:49:26,160
Speaker 1: where we optimize for shareholder returns and things are fantastic

1936
01:49:26,280 --> 01:49:29,479
Speaker 1: so long as you're one of the shareholders. Or should

1937
01:49:29,479 --> 01:49:33,040
Speaker 1: we return to an economy rooted in longer term thinking

1938
01:49:33,120 --> 01:49:37,519
Speaker 1: with significant structural investments and jobs that can sustain everyone

1939
01:49:37,520 --> 01:49:42,120
Speaker 1: in America from top to bottom. The core rot as

1940
01:49:42,439 --> 01:49:45,799
Speaker 1: exemplified by the oil market trends, is that the American

1941
01:49:45,840 --> 01:49:50,479
Speaker 1: economy is structured in a way that radically benefits just

1942
01:49:50,840 --> 01:49:54,360
Speaker 1: a few large shareholders at the expense of everyone else,

1943
01:49:54,760 --> 01:49:57,720
Speaker 1: particularly the working class. And my final point I just

1944
01:49:57,760 --> 01:50:00,080
Speaker 1: want everybody to remember this is that when you, if

1945
01:50:00,120 --> 01:50:03,360
Speaker 1: you're members of Congress, CEOs, or the mainstream media, hail

1946
01:50:03,439 --> 01:50:06,479
Speaker 1: the private sector as the savior to our economic woes,

1947
01:50:07,080 --> 01:50:11,120
Speaker 1: it's because they oftentimes are the shareholders of these companies

1948
01:50:11,160 --> 01:50:15,080
Speaker 1: and profiting quite handsomely from their investments, without of course,

1949
01:50:15,400 --> 01:50:19,320
Speaker 1: actually creating any real value at all. And even worse,

1950
01:50:19,680 --> 01:50:22,800
Speaker 1: media pundits that are out there almost never disclose their

1951
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:26,120
Speaker 1: conflicts of interest to their viewers. Thank you so much

1952
01:50:26,160 --> 01:50:29,320
Speaker 1: for listening today. I hope you enjoyed today's discussion about

1953
01:50:29,439 --> 01:50:33,160
Speaker 1: one aspect of what's wrong with America's economy that just

1954
01:50:33,439 --> 01:50:36,200
Speaker 1: isn't talked about enough. There are many more, so if

1955
01:50:36,200 --> 01:50:38,439
Speaker 1: you'd like to know more about this topic and many others,

1956
01:50:38,560 --> 01:50:40,679
Speaker 1: please check out my channel fifty one to forty nine

1957
01:50:40,720 --> 01:50:43,360
Speaker 1: on YouTube, where I release weekly videos relating to the

1958
01:50:43,400 --> 01:50:46,880
Speaker 1: intersection of business and politics and society. The link will

1959
01:50:46,880 --> 01:50:49,479
Speaker 1: be in the description below, and of course subscribe to

1960
01:50:49,520 --> 01:50:55,080
Speaker 1: Breaking Points and thank you so much for your time today. Hi,

1961
01:50:55,320 --> 01:50:58,600
Speaker 1: I'm Matt Stoler, author of monopoly focused newsletter Big and

1962
01:50:58,680 --> 01:51:01,479
Speaker 1: an anti trust policy analyst. Now I have a great

1963
01:51:01,520 --> 01:51:04,479
Speaker 1: segment for you today on this Big Breakdown. I want

1964
01:51:04,479 --> 01:51:07,240
Speaker 1: to talk to you today about crypto. Now. I get

1965
01:51:07,280 --> 01:51:09,320
Speaker 1: a lot of notes from people saying, Hey, Matt, you

1966
01:51:09,360 --> 01:51:12,040
Speaker 1: hate monopolies, you hate corruption, You should love bitcoin, you

1967
01:51:12,040 --> 01:51:15,720
Speaker 1: should love crypto. We're fighting against concentrated financial power, just

1968
01:51:15,840 --> 01:51:19,240
Speaker 1: like you are. We're just doing it in a different way. Well,

1969
01:51:19,240 --> 01:51:22,600
Speaker 1: with bitcoin prices crashing, crypto crashing, and a lot of

1970
01:51:22,640 --> 01:51:24,920
Speaker 1: people getting wiped out over the last six months, I

1971
01:51:25,040 --> 01:51:27,960
Speaker 1: figured now is as good a time as any to

1972
01:51:28,000 --> 01:51:30,920
Speaker 1: talk about it. So what is crypto? Why are so

1973
01:51:31,000 --> 01:51:33,840
Speaker 1: many people into it? And why is it all collapsing?

1974
01:51:34,760 --> 01:51:36,600
Speaker 1: I think the best way to tell the story is

1975
01:51:36,640 --> 01:51:40,000
Speaker 1: to start with a historical metaphor. In the early nineteen twenties,

1976
01:51:40,280 --> 01:51:44,280
Speaker 1: known sometimes as the Roaring twenties, a wave of speculation

1977
01:51:44,360 --> 01:51:47,760
Speaker 1: occurred around land in Florida. Now, this was just after

1978
01:51:47,760 --> 01:51:51,240
Speaker 1: World War One, a war that caused mass disillusionment millions

1979
01:51:51,280 --> 01:51:53,840
Speaker 1: of Americans who no longer believed their government would do

1980
01:51:54,000 --> 01:51:57,160
Speaker 1: anything for them. There was easy money from the Federal Reserve,

1981
01:51:57,479 --> 01:52:00,639
Speaker 1: few rules on Wall Street, and a raging culture war

1982
01:52:00,680 --> 01:52:06,000
Speaker 1: that disguised the economic choices of elites. Sounds pretty familiar anyway,

1983
01:52:06,040 --> 01:52:09,240
Speaker 1: Florida Land was the perfect great get rich quick scheme

1984
01:52:09,280 --> 01:52:11,799
Speaker 1: for this moment. The state of Florida looked like the future.

1985
01:52:12,000 --> 01:52:15,160
Speaker 1: But Florida was also far enough away from most people

1986
01:52:15,240 --> 01:52:18,640
Speaker 1: in the midwestern New York that investors couldn't easily investigate

1987
01:52:18,680 --> 01:52:22,880
Speaker 1: their holdings. So speculators gambled massively on Florida Land, and

1988
01:52:22,960 --> 01:52:27,200
Speaker 1: the mania became insane, just crazy. So to illustrate, there

1989
01:52:27,240 --> 01:52:29,960
Speaker 1: was at least there was one speculation, sort of speculative

1990
01:52:29,960 --> 01:52:32,919
Speaker 1: fervor over land lots in the city of Netti, Florida.

1991
01:52:33,240 --> 01:52:36,439
Speaker 1: And Nettie, Florida was a city which later turned out

1992
01:52:36,479 --> 01:52:40,240
Speaker 1: not to exist, so eventually the bubble popped. We had

1993
01:52:40,280 --> 01:52:44,200
Speaker 1: a lot of tears and litigation and a great depression. Okay,

1994
01:52:44,439 --> 01:52:49,760
Speaker 1: so with that metaphor, let's talk crypto. What are cryptocurrencies. Well,

1995
01:52:49,760 --> 01:52:53,720
Speaker 1: cryptocurrencies are a social movement based on the belief that

1996
01:52:53,840 --> 01:52:56,599
Speaker 1: markings in a ledger on the Internet have some sort

1997
01:52:56,640 --> 01:53:00,599
Speaker 1: of intrinsic value. The organizers of these ledgers call these

1998
01:53:00,640 --> 01:53:04,120
Speaker 1: markings bitcoin or ethereum, or other names based on the

1999
01:53:04,120 --> 01:53:08,240
Speaker 1: specific ledger. The ledgers have slightly different technical characteristics, but

2000
01:53:08,280 --> 01:53:11,680
Speaker 1: they're not Those differences are not that important. That's it.

2001
01:53:11,840 --> 01:53:14,519
Speaker 1: That's what they are. There's no magic, it's not money,

2002
01:53:14,760 --> 01:53:18,520
Speaker 1: though it has money like properties, and sure, the technology

2003
01:53:18,560 --> 01:53:21,920
Speaker 1: behind the ledgers is kind of neat, But crypto is

2004
01:53:21,960 --> 01:53:26,679
Speaker 1: a movement fundamentally based on energetic storytellers who spin fables

2005
01:53:26,960 --> 01:53:30,040
Speaker 1: about a few utopian future to come and use this

2006
01:53:30,160 --> 01:53:34,439
Speaker 1: kind of neat ledger technology as part of that story.

2007
01:53:34,800 --> 01:53:38,519
Speaker 1: So perhaps the most important storyteller is crypto. Billionaire Sam

2008
01:53:38,520 --> 01:53:43,080
Speaker 1: Bankman Freed, one of Time Magazine one hundred's Time Magazine's

2009
01:53:43,120 --> 01:53:46,920
Speaker 1: one hundred most Influential People of twenty twenty two. He's

2010
01:53:46,920 --> 01:53:48,840
Speaker 1: been profiled by The Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, the New

2011
01:53:48,920 --> 01:53:52,040
Speaker 1: York Times. He intentionally has sort of crazy hair, and

2012
01:53:52,080 --> 01:53:54,240
Speaker 1: he wears shorts and a T shirt to brand himself

2013
01:53:54,280 --> 01:53:58,280
Speaker 1: to politicians and regulators. Is goofy and friendly. Worth between

2014
01:53:58,280 --> 01:54:02,080
Speaker 1: ten and twenty billion dollars these days. Now, that's not

2015
01:54:02,160 --> 01:54:03,960
Speaker 1: all I mean. Crypto is sort of sitting in a

2016
01:54:04,040 --> 01:54:07,920
Speaker 1: larger context. Fueling crypto is cheap money from the Federal Reserve,

2017
01:54:08,320 --> 01:54:12,160
Speaker 1: which has printed seven eight trillion dollars over the last

2018
01:54:12,160 --> 01:54:15,559
Speaker 1: ten years and until recently had dropped interest rates to

2019
01:54:15,600 --> 01:54:18,439
Speaker 1: newyear zero. That's a lot of cheap money going around

2020
01:54:18,439 --> 01:54:21,439
Speaker 1: that you can borrow and speculate with now because of

2021
01:54:21,479 --> 01:54:24,320
Speaker 1: the actions of federal officials like Ben Bernanki, which is

2022
01:54:24,840 --> 01:54:28,679
Speaker 1: talking right here, people borrowed cheap money and they gambled

2023
01:54:28,720 --> 01:54:31,040
Speaker 1: on all sorts of assets, from old sneakers to magic

2024
01:54:31,080 --> 01:54:34,600
Speaker 1: the gathering cards, to financial scams called spacks, to unprofitable

2025
01:54:34,600 --> 01:54:39,520
Speaker 1: firms in the stock market, private equity, yes, also crypto. Now,

2026
01:54:39,600 --> 01:54:42,000
Speaker 1: the Fed is really important. There's a reason that Elon

2027
01:54:42,120 --> 01:54:44,640
Speaker 1: Musk was worth twenty billion dollars before the pandemic and

2028
01:54:44,800 --> 01:54:47,520
Speaker 1: was worth three hundred and forty billion dollars late last year.

2029
01:54:47,720 --> 01:54:50,360
Speaker 1: And it's not because Tesla was selling more cars it's

2030
01:54:50,360 --> 01:54:54,280
Speaker 1: because the FED pushed up asset values during the pandemic everywhere.

2031
01:54:55,120 --> 01:54:58,120
Speaker 1: So in this context, cryptocurrencies are like the Florida land

2032
01:54:58,240 --> 01:55:01,000
Speaker 1: that nowhere ever intends to use. It has value in

2033
01:55:01,000 --> 01:55:03,080
Speaker 1: the moment it is traded, but only because there's a

2034
01:55:03,080 --> 01:55:06,200
Speaker 1: collective belief that it has some intrinsic worth, and because

2035
01:55:06,600 --> 01:55:09,760
Speaker 1: people are gambling over everything, someone is willing to buy

2036
01:55:10,160 --> 01:55:12,440
Speaker 1: the crypto assets, just like they were willing to buy

2037
01:55:12,440 --> 01:55:15,680
Speaker 1: the Florida Land, even though there's really nothing there. Okay,

2038
01:55:16,080 --> 01:55:18,600
Speaker 1: but that's not all. There's also a politics behind crypto,

2039
01:55:18,720 --> 01:55:21,560
Speaker 1: and that politics is actually pretty similar to the politics

2040
01:55:21,600 --> 01:55:26,280
Speaker 1: of this show. It's populist. Bitcoin was created on January third,

2041
01:55:26,320 --> 01:55:29,040
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, right in the middle of the bailouts,

2042
01:55:29,080 --> 01:55:31,880
Speaker 1: and inscribing the code of bitcoin itself is a newspaper

2043
01:55:31,920 --> 01:55:36,080
Speaker 1: headline about bank bailouts. Now, it's not actual populism. It's

2044
01:55:36,120 --> 01:55:39,640
Speaker 1: sort of a weird, kind of sort of inverted populism.

2045
01:55:39,680 --> 01:55:44,360
Speaker 1: But there's a broad questioning of the legitimacy of our

2046
01:55:44,400 --> 01:55:48,320
Speaker 1: existing order, and crypto proponents believe that the existing financial

2047
01:55:48,320 --> 01:55:52,000
Speaker 1: regime is a collusive arrangement between large banks supported with

2048
01:55:52,120 --> 01:55:55,360
Speaker 1: government power. Their view is that money laundering, tax evasion,

2049
01:55:55,400 --> 01:55:57,400
Speaker 1: criminal activity, and fraud are fine as long as you

2050
01:55:57,400 --> 01:55:59,520
Speaker 1: are in an insider in the system, and the Federal

2051
01:55:59,520 --> 01:56:03,040
Speaker 1: Reserve and other government institutions will not only stop corrupt insiders,

2052
01:56:03,200 --> 01:56:06,240
Speaker 1: but will subsidize and bail them out if necessary. Meanwhile,

2053
01:56:06,320 --> 01:56:08,200
Speaker 1: the rest of us have to live with foreclosures, high

2054
01:56:08,200 --> 01:56:10,640
Speaker 1: interest rates on credit cards, high fees for middlemen in

2055
01:56:10,640 --> 01:56:12,920
Speaker 1: every aspects of the economy, student loans, and so on

2056
01:56:12,960 --> 01:56:16,000
Speaker 1: and so forth. And how could you disagree with that critique?

2057
01:56:16,400 --> 01:56:19,120
Speaker 1: You can't. So if you know, you toss kind of

2058
01:56:19,200 --> 01:56:21,960
Speaker 1: allegations at crypto, oh, this is fraudulent that they're like, well,

2059
01:56:22,520 --> 01:56:26,000
Speaker 1: so is everything in finance. How dare you? But whereas

2060
01:56:26,000 --> 01:56:29,240
Speaker 1: the liberal democratic response, you know, that's what I believe in,

2061
01:56:30,080 --> 01:56:32,360
Speaker 1: is to have the government create rules for markets, the

2062
01:56:32,400 --> 01:56:35,840
Speaker 1: crypto response is to build a non government currency technology

2063
01:56:35,880 --> 01:56:38,960
Speaker 1: to root around this corrupt political order. And this is

2064
01:56:39,000 --> 01:56:41,560
Speaker 1: framed in the name of consumer choice, as in the

2065
01:56:41,600 --> 01:56:43,560
Speaker 1: state shouldn't be able to boss you around and tell

2066
01:56:43,600 --> 01:56:45,160
Speaker 1: you what you can do with your money, and neither

2067
01:56:45,160 --> 01:56:47,960
Speaker 1: should banks. After all, it's your money, and any wasn't

2068
01:56:48,040 --> 01:56:51,040
Speaker 1: anyone who doesn't buy into this idea is inherently defending

2069
01:56:51,080 --> 01:56:54,480
Speaker 1: a set of collusive, bailout friendly institutions that we sometimes

2070
01:56:54,480 --> 01:56:58,120
Speaker 1: call liberal democracy. Okay, So that's the politics of crypto.

2071
01:56:58,440 --> 01:57:00,760
Speaker 1: There's a reasonable point behind, and it's not what I

2072
01:57:00,760 --> 01:57:02,520
Speaker 1: agree with, but that's what a lot of people who

2073
01:57:02,560 --> 01:57:05,160
Speaker 1: are into it think. The thing is, what's become clear

2074
01:57:05,240 --> 01:57:08,560
Speaker 1: in this crash is that absent rules, absent this liberal

2075
01:57:08,600 --> 01:57:12,640
Speaker 1: democratic order that these these mismovement disdains, crypto is just

2076
01:57:12,680 --> 01:57:16,280
Speaker 1: an entirely unregulated financial system prone to the same kinds

2077
01:57:16,320 --> 01:57:20,200
Speaker 1: of cheating, fraud and collapse in the existing order, at

2078
01:57:20,280 --> 01:57:24,760
Speaker 1: least really in the pre nineteen thirties on regulated financial system.

2079
01:57:25,160 --> 01:57:27,720
Speaker 1: So Twitter, for example, is full of stories like this.

2080
01:57:28,680 --> 01:57:30,800
Speaker 1: Here's a customer of coinbase, one of the largest and

2081
01:57:30,880 --> 01:57:33,880
Speaker 1: most quote unquote credible crypto exchanges, and he can't get

2082
01:57:33,880 --> 01:57:36,040
Speaker 1: his money out. Now. Banks will rip you off with

2083
01:57:36,040 --> 01:57:38,400
Speaker 1: the fees, they'll charge you something you don't overdraft fee

2084
01:57:38,480 --> 01:57:41,560
Speaker 1: or whatever, but you get your money, not crypto exchanges

2085
01:57:42,840 --> 01:57:48,880
Speaker 1: not having rules sounds great until it doesn't, Okay, And

2086
01:57:48,920 --> 01:57:53,000
Speaker 1: the culture of around crypto, while sort of spouting lots

2087
01:57:53,040 --> 01:57:58,960
Speaker 1: of words like freedom and liberty, is not good. Here's

2088
01:57:58,480 --> 01:58:02,080
Speaker 1: Michael Sailor, a CEO of a firm called micro Strategy,

2089
01:58:02,320 --> 01:58:06,280
Speaker 1: and Sailor is a or briefly became a bitcoin billionaire.

2090
01:58:06,600 --> 01:58:09,760
Speaker 1: Now watch this clip and you'll see Sailor get crazier

2091
01:58:09,760 --> 01:58:12,840
Speaker 1: and crazier and more and more, obviously trying to pull

2092
01:58:12,880 --> 01:58:16,960
Speaker 1: people into a scam. The only use of time is

2093
01:58:18,240 --> 01:58:22,000
Speaker 1: how do I buy more bitcoin? But take all your

2094
01:58:22,000 --> 01:58:24,840
Speaker 1: money buy bitcoin. Then take all your time figure out

2095
01:58:24,880 --> 01:58:27,200
Speaker 1: how to borrow more money to buy more bitcoin. Then

2096
01:58:27,240 --> 01:58:29,040
Speaker 1: take all your time and figure out what you can

2097
01:58:29,080 --> 01:58:32,440
Speaker 1: sell to buy bitcoin. And if you absolutely love the

2098
01:58:32,560 --> 01:58:35,839
Speaker 1: thing that you don't want to sell it, go mortgage

2099
01:58:35,880 --> 01:58:38,160
Speaker 1: your house and buy bitcoin with it. And if you've

2100
01:58:38,200 --> 01:58:40,960
Speaker 1: got a business that you love because your family works

2101
01:58:41,000 --> 01:58:42,960
Speaker 1: for the business, it's in your family for thirty seven

2102
01:58:43,040 --> 01:58:46,720
Speaker 1: years and you can't bear to sell it, mortgage it,

2103
01:58:46,880 --> 01:58:51,160
Speaker 1: finance it, and convert the proceeds into the hardest money

2104
01:58:51,200 --> 01:58:54,120
Speaker 1: on earth, which is bitcoin. So what I would say

2105
01:58:54,200 --> 01:58:59,200
Speaker 1: is use all your time to acquire bitcoin finance entities

2106
01:58:59,400 --> 01:59:03,680
Speaker 1: and weak currencies to buy bitcoin, or educate yourself on

2107
01:59:03,800 --> 01:59:07,000
Speaker 1: why this makes sense if you're not sure, and then

2108
01:59:07,360 --> 01:59:10,200
Speaker 1: educate everybody around you. You know, if you're working for

2109
01:59:10,240 --> 01:59:12,680
Speaker 1: a company that's got one hundred million dollars in the treasure,

2110
01:59:12,720 --> 01:59:14,600
Speaker 1: you got to convince the CEO and the board of

2111
01:59:14,600 --> 01:59:17,920
Speaker 1: directors to convert the treasury to bitcoin. That's the most

2112
01:59:18,040 --> 01:59:22,760
Speaker 1: creative thing you can do. That'd be worth billions to them.

2113
01:59:22,880 --> 01:59:25,680
Speaker 1: That that guy's in like an opinion leader in this space.

2114
01:59:26,000 --> 01:59:28,720
Speaker 1: And you can see that is a mix of a

2115
01:59:28,760 --> 01:59:32,680
Speaker 1: cult and a Ponzi scheme, right, Okay, so that's the

2116
01:59:32,720 --> 01:59:36,360
Speaker 1: culture of bitcoin. That's that's real large the culture of

2117
01:59:36,400 --> 01:59:39,200
Speaker 1: crypto and bitcoin and crypto are slightly different, but I'm

2118
01:59:39,240 --> 01:59:43,040
Speaker 1: lumping them in together because they're not that different. Okay. Now,

2119
01:59:43,160 --> 01:59:47,040
Speaker 1: the thing is is recently the price of bitcoin has collapsed,

2120
01:59:47,520 --> 01:59:49,560
Speaker 1: and there's a reason for this. It's not just, you know,

2121
01:59:49,560 --> 01:59:52,720
Speaker 1: a speculators got tired. It was that it was prompted

2122
01:59:52,760 --> 01:59:55,880
Speaker 1: by the failure of two major crypto institutions because there

2123
01:59:55,880 --> 01:59:58,840
Speaker 1: are no rules. The first was something called Terra Luna

2124
01:59:58,960 --> 02:00:02,640
Speaker 1: and the second was something called Celsius. The specific details

2125
02:00:02,640 --> 02:00:07,840
Speaker 1: aren't that important, but both had similar dynamics. Terra Luna

2126
02:00:08,160 --> 02:00:11,720
Speaker 1: and Celsius promised depositors or buyers a ridiculously high return

2127
02:00:11,720 --> 02:00:15,000
Speaker 1: on their money. Something like eighteen twenty percent, a number

2128
02:00:15,040 --> 02:00:17,000
Speaker 1: that's obviously too good to be true, and they said, oh,

2129
02:00:17,000 --> 02:00:20,440
Speaker 1: it's just completely safe. Then then they lent out that

2130
02:00:20,520 --> 02:00:24,240
Speaker 1: money to speculators, and those speculators bought bitcoin and other

2131
02:00:24,240 --> 02:00:30,160
Speaker 1: cryptocurrencies and drove the price of those cryptocurrencies up. You know,

2132
02:00:30,200 --> 02:00:32,800
Speaker 1: you know what's going to happen next, right, The Federal Reserve,

2133
02:00:32,880 --> 02:00:36,720
Speaker 1: which has been you know, juicing the gambling for a decade,

2134
02:00:37,440 --> 02:00:40,360
Speaker 1: recently started pulling back from supporting financial assets. The last

2135
02:00:40,360 --> 02:00:42,320
Speaker 1: six months they've the Fed has been like, no, things

2136
02:00:42,320 --> 02:00:44,160
Speaker 1: are going to go down now. So the price of

2137
02:00:44,200 --> 02:00:47,480
Speaker 1: bitcoin started to drop. What happens when there's lots of

2138
02:00:47,480 --> 02:00:50,560
Speaker 1: people who borrowed money to speculate, well, they can't the

2139
02:00:50,600 --> 02:00:55,840
Speaker 1: speculators can't pay back their loans. So buyers of either

2140
02:00:56,200 --> 02:01:01,160
Speaker 1: Terra Luna depositors in Celsia's got wiped out because those

2141
02:01:01,320 --> 02:01:03,440
Speaker 1: andies didn't have any money. They said, oh, your money's

2142
02:01:03,480 --> 02:01:05,800
Speaker 1: totally safe. It turns out it wasn't. This is an

2143
02:01:05,880 --> 02:01:11,200
Speaker 1: old fashioned bank run before deposit insurance, and the collapse

2144
02:01:11,400 --> 02:01:14,320
Speaker 1: of these institutions had another knock on effect, and it

2145
02:01:14,440 --> 02:01:19,480
Speaker 1: meant that speculators couldn't borrow, and so bitcoin fell even more.

2146
02:01:19,960 --> 02:01:23,800
Speaker 1: This is how an unregulated financial system unravels, and there

2147
02:01:23,840 --> 02:01:26,440
Speaker 1: are more institutional blow ups in the crypto world to come.

2148
02:01:27,160 --> 02:01:29,600
Speaker 1: Since late last year, the aggregate value of crypto has

2149
02:01:29,680 --> 02:01:32,320
Speaker 1: dropped from between two and three trillion dollars to less

2150
02:01:32,320 --> 02:01:35,920
Speaker 1: than a trillion dollars. But there's room to fall. Bitcoin

2151
02:01:36,160 --> 02:01:39,560
Speaker 1: is still twice as expensive as it was before the pandemic.

2152
02:01:40,360 --> 02:01:43,560
Speaker 1: You know, is the FED continues to withdraw its support.

2153
02:01:43,920 --> 02:01:47,960
Speaker 1: There's a lot of money to be lost still. But frankly,

2154
02:01:48,600 --> 02:01:50,560
Speaker 1: a lot of people are going to be hurt, and

2155
02:01:50,600 --> 02:01:53,240
Speaker 1: that's sad. But I can't wait for this collapse to happen.

2156
02:01:53,280 --> 02:01:56,280
Speaker 1: It is a good thing that crypto is falling apart,

2157
02:01:56,320 --> 02:02:00,400
Speaker 1: because ultimately the goal for the big investors behind crypto,

2158
02:02:00,560 --> 02:02:02,720
Speaker 1: I'm not the people who are just involved and maybe

2159
02:02:02,760 --> 02:02:04,120
Speaker 1: made a little bit of money or lost a little

2160
02:02:04,120 --> 02:02:06,440
Speaker 1: bit of money, but the people who are really behind it,

2161
02:02:06,560 --> 02:02:10,760
Speaker 1: venture capitalists like Mark Andresen, billionaires like Sam Bankman Freed,

2162
02:02:11,520 --> 02:02:15,920
Speaker 1: is to get favorable regulation in place before the big

2163
02:02:16,000 --> 02:02:19,840
Speaker 1: crash so they can get bailouts from the state. And

2164
02:02:20,200 --> 02:02:25,160
Speaker 1: they were actually starting to succeed. Bankmin Freed had Bill Clinton,

2165
02:02:25,440 --> 02:02:28,800
Speaker 1: Tony Blair, and Andrew Yang as guests for his crypto

2166
02:02:28,840 --> 02:02:33,080
Speaker 1: conference held in the Bahamas last year. And that's not all.

2167
02:02:33,960 --> 02:02:37,960
Speaker 1: Senator Cynthia Lumis and Kirsten Gillibrand have been key advocates

2168
02:02:38,080 --> 02:02:41,280
Speaker 1: to have the Federal Commodities Regulator instead of the more

2169
02:02:41,280 --> 02:02:45,520
Speaker 1: hardcore Securities and Exchange Commission, regulate the industry. There were

2170
02:02:45,560 --> 02:02:48,440
Speaker 1: some scary stuff about FED accounts in there as well,

2171
02:02:48,480 --> 02:02:52,360
Speaker 1: like kind of hinting at possible bailouts. There's even a

2172
02:02:52,400 --> 02:02:55,120
Speaker 1: blockchain Caucus in the House with such members as uber

2173
02:02:55,120 --> 02:02:58,400
Speaker 1: partisan Democrat Eric Swolwell on the left and the trumpiest

2174
02:02:58,440 --> 02:03:02,760
Speaker 1: trump Republican Lauren Bobert on the right. Ultimately, the endgame

2175
02:03:02,880 --> 02:03:05,680
Speaker 1: is to let crypto firms get access to taxpayer support

2176
02:03:05,720 --> 02:03:08,520
Speaker 1: through the Federal Reserve, lending facilities or other forms of

2177
02:03:08,560 --> 02:03:12,400
Speaker 1: government assistance. That takes these billionaires who have they have

2178
02:03:12,440 --> 02:03:15,240
Speaker 1: billions in crypto, and it turns them into actually something useful,

2179
02:03:15,280 --> 02:03:19,280
Speaker 1: which are dollars. Now. People sometimes say, ah, crypto, You

2180
02:03:19,280 --> 02:03:21,560
Speaker 1: know what backs crypto is just belief, But what backs

2181
02:03:21,600 --> 02:03:25,280
Speaker 1: the dollar? That's just belief too. No, the American government

2182
02:03:25,320 --> 02:03:28,240
Speaker 1: backs the dollar through a lender of last resort facility

2183
02:03:28,680 --> 02:03:32,040
Speaker 1: taxing authority, deposit insurance, and a strong economy that makes

2184
02:03:32,080 --> 02:03:35,879
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. Crypto is actually backed purely by belief,

2185
02:03:36,080 --> 02:03:38,760
Speaker 1: and belief only lasts as long as prices go up.

2186
02:03:38,880 --> 02:03:42,200
Speaker 1: When belief goes, you need the US government to bail

2187
02:03:42,240 --> 02:03:46,080
Speaker 1: you out. Bankman Freed and his people know this, and

2188
02:03:46,120 --> 02:03:48,280
Speaker 1: they are trying to get government backing for crypto as

2189
02:03:48,360 --> 02:03:51,800
Speaker 1: quickly as possible. He has spent thirty million dollars in

2190
02:03:51,880 --> 02:03:55,400
Speaker 1: politics just this cycle to buy power within the Democratic Party,

2191
02:03:55,440 --> 02:03:57,960
Speaker 1: and says he may spend up to eight billion dollars

2192
02:03:58,040 --> 02:04:01,440
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four just in politics. And one of

2193
02:04:01,480 --> 02:04:03,240
Speaker 1: his business not a partisan thing. One of his business

2194
02:04:03,280 --> 02:04:06,240
Speaker 1: partners is a big spender on the GOP side. They're

2195
02:04:06,280 --> 02:04:08,360
Speaker 1: just these guys are cynics and business people. They divided

2196
02:04:08,360 --> 02:04:10,000
Speaker 1: it up. They said, you take the Republicans, will take

2197
02:04:10,000 --> 02:04:14,360
Speaker 1: the Democrats. Okay. So if this crash hadn't happened when

2198
02:04:14,360 --> 02:04:18,640
Speaker 1: it did, Begmunfreed would likely have succeeded. The momentum was

2199
02:04:18,640 --> 02:04:20,880
Speaker 1: on his side. The regulators were coming to like him,

2200
02:04:20,880 --> 02:04:25,880
Speaker 1: so were politicians. Maybe he still will win, maybe he won't.

2201
02:04:25,920 --> 02:04:27,720
Speaker 1: It's going to be much harder now that people have

2202
02:04:27,800 --> 02:04:31,560
Speaker 1: seen the downside of crypto, but either way, this story,

2203
02:04:31,760 --> 02:04:34,640
Speaker 1: like the Florida real estate story, will end in tears,

2204
02:04:35,080 --> 02:04:39,280
Speaker 1: but hopefully it will end soon. Thanks for watching this

2205
02:04:39,360 --> 02:04:41,640
Speaker 1: big breakdown on the Breaking Points channel. If you'd like

2206
02:04:41,680 --> 02:04:43,839
Speaker 1: to know more about big business and how our economy

2207
02:04:43,880 --> 02:04:46,080
Speaker 1: really works, you can sign up below for my market

2208
02:04:46,160 --> 02:04:49,680
Speaker 1: power focused newsletter, Big which is in the description. Thanks

2209
02:04:49,720 --> 02:04:50,440
Speaker 1: and have a good one.