1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,080 Speaker 1: You said a few things that I want to dig 2 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: in on. You know, you talked about data and knowing 3 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: those numbers and the ROI which and we're talking about 4 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: creators here. If I'm if I am in my own 5 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: world an influencer, I have, you know, my TikTok, I 6 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: got my Instagram. At what point am I in a 7 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: position to go to a brand? How is it follower count? 8 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: Is it views on my stuff? Like because I know 9 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 1: a lot of people who want to be there, but 10 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: they don't have the big numbers like you know. 11 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 2: These other artists. Absolutely, it's value creation, right, So it's 12 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 2: oftentimes it doesn't. You know, brands aren't just looking for 13 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 2: who has the biggest audience. Though. Reach is important because 14 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 2: your audience should be some indication of how many people 15 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 2: you'll be able to activate and in service of some 16 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: call to action from a brand. So that's why the 17 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 2: follower account matters. But if you've got a really engaged 18 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 2: audience and you've got deep penetration and authenticity, we often 19 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 2: see more results coming from folks who have very deep residency. 20 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 2: It's the reason why you know you'll see creators, influencers, 21 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 2: or even cultural leaders both going to market in the 22 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:15,119 Speaker 2: same vertical, you know, whether it be spirits or fashion 23 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 2: or beauty. And you often see outside results from folks 24 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 2: that aren't the largest and what is it. They're the 25 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 2: most authentic and they are better activators in that particular space. 26 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: They can influence their audience through their relationship with them 27 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 2: to take action on something. And so regardless of the 28 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 2: audience size, I think you have to what do brands want. 29 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 2: Brands want to start from the top of the funnel. 30 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 2: They want to gain awareness, right, They want to get 31 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 2: folks to interact, so they want people to know about 32 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 2: their brands. Then they want folks to think favorably about 33 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 2: their brands. They want them to interact and engage, and 34 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 2: then ultimately they want them to purchase or invest in 35 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 2: those brands and to keep coming again and doing the 36 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 2: same thing. And so along that funnel, think about with 37 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 2: your audience, where can you move the needle right and 38 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 2: if you can prove real qualified actions and real qualified conversions. 39 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 2: And often creators start by seeing how they're able to 40 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 2: get their audience to activate around a small call to action. 41 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 2: You know, if you're a comedian, are people coming to 42 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 2: see you at the you know, at the local comedy show. 43 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 2: And if you can prove to a brand that your 44 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 2: voice and your content and your engagement with them is 45 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 2: going to lead to action on behalf of the brand, 46 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 2: regardless of the size of the audience, brands are going 47 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 2: to take. 48 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: Now, you know, a lot of your work, Heartbeat Included, 49 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: has been rooted in digital innovation, and I wonder what 50 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: your thoughts are on how technology may be shaping the 51 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,399 Speaker 1: future of content. You know, there's so many creators who 52 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: are just going straight to YouTube or straight to you know, 53 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: these other publishing platforms and don't need traditional media that way. 54 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. So you know, on we're one where 55 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,399 Speaker 2: you know, in the midst of the greatest technological revolution 56 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 2: in history, and the speed of innovation has accelerated so fast. 57 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,239 Speaker 2: When you think about predominant forms of media and how 58 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 2: long radio was a predominant form of media, how long 59 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: television was the predominant form of media, or you know, 60 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 2: once you got the Internet, how long it took to percolate. 61 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 2: We're just seeing methods of communication and forms of consumption 62 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 2: being interrupted in displace much faster down just because technology 63 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 2: is accelerating new things faster better. So what does that 64 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 2: mean for creators, so a ton of opportunity. If you 65 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 2: think about Napster and what it did to music, right, 66 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 2: So first there was you know, a huge much like 67 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 2: the same reaction we're having to AI right now from 68 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 2: a creative community. I'm going to do be disenter, you know, 69 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 2: disintimediated from my audience. I'm not going to be able 70 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 2: to sell albums anymore. Folks aren't going to be able 71 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: to experience a body of work in the way that 72 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 2: I intended. And a lot of those things are true 73 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 2: for a time, right, But on the other side of 74 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 2: that came a huge democratization of music and it meant 75 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 2: that you could be you know, the innovation that came 76 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 2: after it from you you know, Spotify and YouTube and SoundCloud. 77 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 2: It meant that discovery was not limited to you know, 78 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 2: a specific few A and R channels. It meant that 79 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 2: reaching an audience was not you know, you didn't have 80 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 2: to be on a national broadcast or have a music 81 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 2: video playing on one of the top cable networks in 82 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 2: order to do so. So there was a huge amount 83 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 2: of disruption and disintermediation. There was a huge amount of opportunity, 84 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 2: and we're seeing the same thing but just you know, 85 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 2: amplified what seems like one hundred x right now, So 86 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 2: is there a ton of you know, protection and rights 87 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 2: concerns around NIL and voice and all of the above 88 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 2: and the rise of AI, Well, contracts look different, absolutely, 89 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 2: But it also means that creators are able to do 90 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 2: things that were once or for studios, right it means uh, 91 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 2: you know, creators the you know, the cost of content production, 92 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 2: the cost of creativity goes down. But they're also threats 93 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 2: to the craft. And you know, when you think about 94 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 2: building careers digitally, there there is still you know a 95 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: sense of you know, how was that home. Some of 96 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 2: the talent that you know, I've had the good fortune 97 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 2: to partner with, you know, have built their careers over decades, 98 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,119 Speaker 2: right like honing it on stage, honing it with direct 99 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 2: to audience engagement, and there's a it's very different when 100 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 2: you're doing that through a screen. Is it any less valuable? 101 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 2: You know, maybe not to the existing audience, but there 102 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 2: is a difference. And so, you know, I think how 103 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: craft is developed and how career is developed or monetized 104 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 2: with two different questions. And so so I think there 105 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 2: could be these these threats to craft. But it also 106 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 2: when so much is digitized, this this craft holds more weight, right, 107 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:01,919 Speaker 2: like what you put into that work and how you 108 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 2: developed that, you start to place a premium on it. 109 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 2: But you know the net is tons more access and 110 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 2: more opportunity, but also more competition right in the market 111 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 2: as a result of it. 112 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: I want to go to a step deeper that because 113 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: you make me think about it. I grew up in 114 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: a church and I remember there were people, Yeah, there 115 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: were people, and I'm sure you've seen who could sing 116 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 1: better than anybody who's got a record deal, you know, 117 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 1: but they're never going to get one for whatever reason. 118 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: And I wonder, then listening to you talk just because 119 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: you're good or talented doesn't mean you know how to 120 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: get found. And I wonder, like what your thoughts are 121 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: on how do people get found? Because you're to your point, 122 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: like it's more competition now, like the landscape is completely changed. 123 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: And to add on to that question, like did COVID 124 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: change any of that, because now we don't need to 125 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: be necessarily in New York, or in la or in 126 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: some of these places right necessarily. 127 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 2: I was actually floored by the amount of innovation that's 128 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 2: happening in the classroom is such a young age now 129 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 2: in so many of these schools, and we're based in 130 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 2: LA but you know, you've got six and seven year 131 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: olds who are doing podcasting and these very advanced team studios. 132 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 2: But in doing so, they're learning how to craft stories 133 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 2: around themselves and actually thinking about how to monetize and 134 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 2: how to promote those both scary and wildly enlightening on 135 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: the other side. And so I'll say there's a difference. 136 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 2: I don't even know what the term is, right if 137 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 2: we were beyond digital natives, you know, like it's a 138 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 2: complete digital first generation. And so I would say, I 139 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 2: think that this next generation is much more savvy about 140 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 2: discovery and promotion than than perhaps those who are doing 141 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 2: it right now at the moment, you know, are that 142 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: being said, what is required, what it means to be 143 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 2: a storyteller, what it means to be a creator at 144 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 2: this moment, I believe means being part of our as 145 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 2: part scientists. Right before I think we were and again, 146 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 2: I was a film major, and you know, I thought 147 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 2: that I was going to have this like really beautiful, 148 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 2: romantic career in the art and and I think, you know, 149 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: I've had the exact career that I was supposed to have, 150 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 2: and I younifashioned myself a storyteller and a business builder 151 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 2: and that artist and scientists, and so you know, you 152 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 2: need to be engaged in story and you need to 153 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: make meaning of things, and you also have to figure out, 154 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 2: you know, how to mechanize that in order to get 155 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 2: it seen and to for it to be consumed. Even 156 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 2: if you're not directly involved in digital distribution, if you 157 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 2: are telling story in any form, if you're creating in 158 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 2: any form, you at least need to understand how it 159 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 2: will ultimately be distributed or consumed, right, so you have 160 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 2: some context with with what you're creating. And I think 161 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 2: that's what I would say. I would say that it 162 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 2: is that is the mandate now, right to know the 163 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 2: what and to be committed to the what and doing 164 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 2: it in a way this is unique you that only 165 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 2: you can put your footprint on, but really understanding the 166 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 2: how as well, and I don't know that that was 167 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 2: as important, and you know sort of previous generations. 168 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned your kids in the kind of 169 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: education they're getting today versus how we grew up, you know, 170 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: when we were going on. I mean they asked you 171 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: you want to be a fireman, you want to be 172 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: a police officer, these sorts of things. And these kids 173 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: now want to be mister beasts and they want to 174 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: be you know, YouTubers and Kaya sanin I Show Speed 175 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 1: and all these guys. And I wonder what Ty thinks 176 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 1: about if her seven year old concerns like I want 177 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: to be a YouTuber therefore like nothing, I don't care 178 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 1: about anything else. This is where I'm going. 179 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 2: M hm. So that's happened. I don't know many parents 180 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 2: from whom that hasn't just because of them. We you know, 181 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 2: we try to be you know, really good stewards and 182 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 2: not over index on on screen time. But as a parent, 183 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 2: forget about you know, the executive, the entrepreneur. As a parent, 184 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: I I definitely have serious concerns, and not just about 185 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 2: technology but what technology unlocks. So clearly there's safety concerns 186 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 2: and you want to be really vigilant. There's a level 187 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 2: of discernment concerns what's real and what's not real that 188 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 2: I think we're dealing with for the first time, like 189 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 2: now with AI, like you're watching you know, if someone's 190 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 2: consuming it's something and they don't have a point of 191 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 2: reference for it in the real world or what is 192 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 2: the real world anymore? As a parent, right, there are 193 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 2: these big kind of ethical considerations. But I think that 194 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 2: when you talk about creators so often, what we're defaulting 195 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 2: to in that discussion can be some kind of influence. Right. 196 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 2: But like what we found our the conversation we have 197 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 2: found ourselves having with our seven year old who see 198 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 2: his picture right there, like a smart kid, was the 199 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 2: difference between like fame and validation and the making of 200 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 2: something right, And so it's so you know, what do 201 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 2: you want to make and what do you want to contribute, 202 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 2: and you know, how do you want to be in 203 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 2: the world versus how many people know you and how 204 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 2: do you want to be seen? And that's a pressure 205 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 2: that was not on that children are facing in mass 206 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 2: It's a completely unrealistic pressure that everyone should have this 207 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:23,479 Speaker 2: level of fame and notoriety. And you know, I'm no psychologists, 208 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 2: but I just wonder what that's doing to the psyche 209 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 2: and so as a parent, I'm really guarding against that. 210 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 2: But I think it's a bigger question for us as 211 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 2: a creative community, right, like where does where what is 212 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 2: the role of craft now? Philosophical and ethical conversations. And 213 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 2: what I've come to is, I just want my child 214 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 2: to be very curious minded, to be you know, to 215 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 2: have a critical eye right and discerning, and to to 216 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 2: be a deep thinker and to understand and to be 217 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 2: a deep thinker and a continuous learner, because I think 218 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 2: that those are the and you start to default to 219 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 2: the fundamentals, like, you know, I want you to appreciate philosophy. 220 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 2: You should really be thinking about, you know, sort of 221 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 2: like how you show up in the world and what 222 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 2: it means to be, you know, a good citizen of 223 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 2: the world, because there's just so much more access right, 224 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 2: like everything that we kind of imagine, they're able to 225 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 2: do and and touch and in a in a much 226 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 2: more accessible way. And so then you just have to 227 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 2: have a higher level of discernment and critical thinking skills.