1 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: This is an I heeart original. Hello Folks, bullet shaped 2 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: bond salesman and stone Cold Perjurator Jerry McGuire here, that's 3 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: a word, write credits, lady, perjurator, perjurator. You know, perjurator, 4 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: a schlemiel who lies under oath or I guess could 5 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: also be a refrigerator full of lies. Okay, sure you 6 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 1: do you babe. Right here we go three two one, 7 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: Hello folks, bullet shaped bond salesman, stone Cold Perjurator. I 8 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: am the fascist Henchman extraordinaire Gerald see Jerry McGuire here. 9 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: The Dimwitz who write this program thought it would be 10 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: a good idea to allow me to host today's radio drama. 11 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: Speaking of what's this box labeled sound effects? Zaloe? Jerry, 12 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: let's hold on a moment. Oho, he's one of them 13 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 1: in the flash Ladies and James. Yeah, thanks, but we 14 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: don't want you to host. You left the mic unattended. 15 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: What did you expect that I do the ethical thing? 16 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: You kill me? Anyway. This is the finale, the episode 17 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: where we tie all the narrative strands into frilly little bows, 18 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: no loose ends. We invited the whole cast I Heart 19 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: Studios for a little rat party. Yeah, it's your classic 20 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: epilogue slash how they died kind of deal if you 21 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: catch my drift. Yeah, morbid but necessary. There's Lucius and 22 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: Beauregard hanging out by the bar. Yeah, I don't conserved 23 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: a cocktail in the next ten seconds, all wait longer, 24 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: And there's Robert Sterling Clark and President Herbert Hoover is 25 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: over there doing his things the best I Heart can 26 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: do for us. Oh my god, it's like a garage, 27 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: only somehow garage you are. And then there's Grace and 28 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: Murphy huddled up in the corner. Rover there, you remember him, 29 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: And he's there with Na DuPont and some random woman 30 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: in a pencil skirt. Did you think you el seeing 31 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: ho ho? You al not seeing good? No doubt. He's 32 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: plotting a hostile takeover of IHOT Media. And I'm sure 33 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: Major General Smelly Butler is around here somewhere. Oh surprised 34 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: he showed his face. If I were him, I'd be 35 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: hiding in shame on the heels of that made up 36 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: coup him. Brolio, Like I was saying, we asked you 37 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: here to tell you some tough news. Hey, what that 38 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: newspaper ' houlding? There? Is that my picture? Yeah? It's 39 00:02:42,920 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: from the New York Times, March twenty six, nineteen thirty five. 40 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: Oh so handsome and jolly. You want to look at this? Yeah? 41 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: Give me that this could only be good news. Well, okay, 42 00:02:54,680 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: The headline says GC McGuire dies was named as leading 43 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: Wall Street move to seize government. You told the worst sort. 44 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: You brought me here to read my oh bit? Sorry, 45 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: but like you said, frilly little bows, you to really 46 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: throw an a plus party. Let's see here. Family members 47 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: contend that he was framed for publicity piposes. Well, I 48 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: agree with that completely. His breader gave out a statement 49 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: charging that his meaning my fatal illness was directly caused 50 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: by the unjust attack launched by the House Committee on 51 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: Unamerican Activities. And look, my physician concoyed. I'm telling you 52 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: Smedley Butler caused this via his lies. Stress is a killer, 53 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: and I was only in my thities. Talk about a tragedy. 54 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: The world lost a bright bullet shaped light. Your official 55 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: cause of death was pneumonia, But it seems a bit suspicious. 56 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: Let me call me a conspiracy theorist. But you were 57 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: pretty massive loose end, the weak link in a fascist 58 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: plot to overthrow the president. You died just five months 59 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: after your testimony. Is it conceivable that your fascist friends 60 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: could have taken you out? Somebody? Fold up a tinfoil 61 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: hat for this jem ok. Make sure it's penis shaped 62 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: so it'll fit us head. Look it says right here 63 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: in the New York Times, the Gray Lady, the paper 64 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: of record, that the responsible potty was Smedley Butler. His 65 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 1: lies gave me pneumonia and the investigators finished me off. 66 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: Just seems a little strange to me that there's no 67 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: blame in the story directed at the people who had 68 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: you leading the plot. In fact, there's no mention of 69 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: them at all. Doesn't that seem a little suspicious? I 70 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: would say it's certainly an odd coincidence, a mystery lost 71 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: to the ages. Now, given that, would you at least 72 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: let me do the intro? Well, come on, I'm on 73 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: borrowed time here, Okay, go for it, hot dog, All right, 74 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: here we go, quick disclaimer. To bring you this story, 75 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: these lamoxes have done all the research, read the books, 76 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: interviewed historians. But still there are some big gaps in 77 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: the historical record, and they'll never know exactly what happened. 78 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: So in those gaps they've had some fun like me, 79 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: I'm fun or anyway, I was from Ihot Originals and 80 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: School of Humans. This is what's the name of this program. 81 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: Let's start a coup, Let's start a coop. I'm Ben Bullet, 82 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: I'm Alex French and I'm everybody's favorite bullet shaped by Jerrada, 83 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: the late Gerald C. Jerry Maguire. This is episode six, 84 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: the Real Coup. Okay, so, last time we watched the 85 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 1: horrible train wreck that was the Huette Committee's investigation of 86 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: the coup plot. Remember, it was full of holes. The 87 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: middy heads McCormack and dix Stein didn't call in any 88 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: of the alleged leaders of the plot, guys like the Dupots, 89 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: which we found awfully fishy, fishy, because it seemed like 90 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: the more money and power they had, the more distance 91 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: they had from accountability. Right then, most of the mainstream 92 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: media at best seemed to trivialize the story and at 93 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: worst ignored altogether. They moximately is a loon. Ultimately, the 94 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: committee's report acknowledged that the coup plot was real, but 95 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: never investigated further or held anyone accountable. The whole thing was, 96 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: to use a classy expression, a fart in the wind 97 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: until John el Spivack, journalist at large mouthpiece for the 98 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: common man life of the potty distributor of hot truths 99 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: on hotty laughs. Here were the hot scoop of cold 100 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: facts that might set a little light on this Dixtein 101 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: McCormack sham investigation. I was just going to see until 102 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: John El Spivack came along. Your timing, sir, is peccable. 103 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: Well that's me for ya, the timing of Charlie Chaplin 104 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: with the muck raking sobriety of an Upton Sinclair. Except 105 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: I wouldn't be got dead uptown. I'm on the downtown beat, 106 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: so you better call me downtown Sinclair or downtown as 107 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: the case maybe. But that's enough hair spouting for the moment. Anyway. Anyway, 108 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: please do up comes with you boys. Thanks for having 109 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: me ring it ing thing. That's one swell clambag you 110 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: got going on the coop's butter and egg Man McGuire 111 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: is out there and ring it ing. Damn. You ought 112 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: to see the sticks on the chickie rubbing up against 113 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: Irenee DuPont. Oh, baby, too bad, it's his first cousin, say, 114 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: somebody ought to write a story about that, And by somebody, 115 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: I mean me. I gotta go. Wait, don't leave yet, 116 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: So we're baking clans or like, first, tell us, mister Spivack, 117 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: what's this hot scoop? Well, before I PLoP my scoop 118 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: onto the top of your nuggin like so much scandalous 119 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: ice cream, whin chap, take a moment and properly introduced 120 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: me to all the nice people out there in the 121 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: radio land. I'll go quick. John L. Spivak was a 122 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: genuine pioneer of what folks will later call gonzo journalism. 123 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: He reported heavily on the spread of fascism in the 124 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: US for a series of communists and otherwise left wing rags. 125 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: Sure sure show up. But I also wrote some mighty 126 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: big pieces for some mighty big fishes swimming down the 127 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: main stream of the news game The New York Herald Tribune, 128 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: The New York Journal, The New York Sun, the New 129 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: York Moon and Stars. Oh yeah, and Esquire Magazine. I've 130 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: heard of it. Now. If those are communist rags, I'm 131 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: John Wayne, And that's not a joke about manliness. That's 132 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: a joke about me being a Republican, which is maybe 133 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: about the funniest thing I've ever heard. Anyway, Where was I? Oh? Yeah, 134 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: Lincoln Stephens called me the best of us. That's right, best, 135 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: that's me and us meaning the whole tribe and muck 136 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: racking story dogs yapping at the heels of those swine 137 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: who hold up on all those great big buildings downtown, 138 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: winking into the nightlike where wolves. But they're pigs. So 139 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: where pigs? If you must. And if you were to 140 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: ask me where are pigs, I'd point you downtown and say, 141 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: on the big buildings right yonder. Just follow the smell. 142 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: So I'd say I was pretty good with a notebook 143 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: and a pen. When't you? Of course you would. It 144 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: leader came to light that Spivak worked as a Soviet spy. 145 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: He's alleged to have passed military secrets, and he at 146 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: times discredited investigations into communist propagandas so well, there's that 147 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: I had a perspective on the evils of the capitalistic 148 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: system that was sculptured by my life experience. As you say, 149 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: I had life experiences I grew up in New Haven 150 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: and worked in factories as a boy. I saw capitalism 151 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: crush everyday people, sometimes literally in the sense that one 152 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: of them was a wall nut factory. But where was I? 153 00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I never shied away from informing my readers 154 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: about my perspective. No, no, no, no no. They knew 155 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: where I stood. And right now, that's right here in 156 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: front of this microphone, crooning away like I'm alboli or 157 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: some other such common reference that will definitely stand the 158 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: test of time. Okay, so some would say you had 159 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: an extra grind. Well, if that metaphorical axis exposing fascism, Nazism, racism, anyism, 160 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: then cholet's get too grinding except for communism. That one's fine. 161 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: What what's this scoop you were telling us about? Well, 162 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: starting in nineteen thirty five, just months after the hearings 163 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: on the coup plot, I started digging into the behind 164 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: the scenes happenings of the Mccaumack Exteine Committee's investigation, and 165 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: I uncovered actual evidence of a plot within a plot. Yes, sir, 166 00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: members of the committee were well aware of the scheme 167 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: to overthrow FDR, and once the coup failed, created their 168 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: own conspiracy to cover the whole thing up and protect 169 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: the guys behind it. Spivak says it all traces back 170 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: to Wall Street. That is a scoop, mister Spivak tell 171 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: us more. I concluded. The Congress did planned to investigate 172 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: at all. Instead, they scripted a sort of theater for 173 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: the cities and the political cast. They weren't even planning 174 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: on calling Smedley to testify, not until Paul Calmley French 175 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: published his story and the public became interested. The committee 176 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: wanted the appearance of an investigation while keeping any details 177 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: or revelations about the plot under wraps. I saw right 178 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: through it, and you could prove this how well. First 179 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: of all, I got my hands on Smedley Butler's unedited testimony. 180 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: How'd you manage that? Well? You see, the committee's secretary 181 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: accidentally handed it to me with a stack of other documents. 182 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: I requested, quite a happy accident. A kind of the 183 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: report that the committee released to the public only had 184 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: highly edited, cherry picked quotes from Smedley Butler, not the 185 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: whole megila. So if you're playing along at home, that's 186 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: one point for Don Locke and zero points for the 187 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: committee secretary. And you actually published a side by side 188 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: comparison what Smedley Butler said versus what Congress deemed fit 189 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: to print. The differences are readily apparent and startling. Here's 190 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: what I observed. Almost every retraction or edit contains specific 191 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: names of powerful people tied to the plot, people like 192 00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: Al Smith, John W. Davis, and Alfred P. Sloan, who 193 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: is only the head of General Motors. General Motors, of course, 194 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: was a company with deep ties in the DuPont family. See, 195 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: once you start to make these connections, you can't stop. 196 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: Like how in nineteen thirty four Clark Gable does it 197 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: wear an undershirt in the movie It Happened One Night? 198 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: And what happens pictures a smash and undershirt sales plummets. 199 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: Connect the dots. It's a conspiracy. Let me tell you. 200 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: I've been around see and sometimes conspiracy and idiocy are 201 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: one and the saale. But what General Butler describes it 202 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: for the committee as a full fledged kudatakudaday cooda yesterday 203 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: and cood at tomorrow. And then there was what you 204 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: called dicing the tomato. It's a dance move I made up. 205 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: Goes like this, No, no, mister, Spivak, not that, Oh 206 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: you mean financial hook ups? Yes, dude, Nah, not that 207 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: one of my triumphs. You claim to find a clear 208 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: chain of financial relationships between people organizing the coup and 209 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: controlling members of the Congressional Committee. In other words, the 210 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: suspects and the investigators had secret financial relationships. Let's imagine 211 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: all the money connected like points on a spider's web. 212 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: If you're looking for the center, you want to start 213 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: at JP Morgan Bank. Spevak says, JP Morgan Bank served 214 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: as the connective tissue linking various plotters and the Congressional Committee. 215 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: Several people involved in the coup plot were on something 216 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: called the preferred list, meaning the firm would offer them 217 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: stocks or bonds at the original issue price, regardless of 218 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: the market value. It's astounding. And if you're still playing 219 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: along at home, and now's the time to grab a pen. 220 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: Say a stock was originally issued at twenty dollars and 221 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: now it's going for thirty six. If you're playing ball 222 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: with Morgan, the sality of fort twenty, and you can 223 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: turn around and sell it for a profit on the 224 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: same day. Just to drive Spevak's point home, we're talking 225 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: a same day profit of sixteen thousand dollars in twenty 226 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: twenty three money that's more than three hundred and fifty 227 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: thousand bucks. Oh baby. In a roundabout way, this is 228 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: like JP Morgan putting its operatives on a payroll, and 229 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: there were several plotas on that payroll. John W. Davis, 230 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: a former presidential candidate, was on the preferred lists. He 231 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: ghostrupped that gold standard speech Jerry McGuire wanted smedily to read. 232 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: Grayson Murphy is on the list as well. He was 233 00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: an officer at the American Liberty League and the director 234 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: of a Morgan bank called the New York Trust Company, 235 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: just as sure as the lords the director of the 236 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: Little Green Apples Company. So it's all connected. Like I 237 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: was saying, but how did this connect to the Congressional Committee, Well, 238 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: we have to go a bit further, because these guys 239 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: definitely weren't being too public about their associations. To get 240 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: to Congress. I showed there was a sophisticated proxy system. 241 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: The money went through another Morgan controlled company and then 242 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: through another organization that had influence over the Mccaumack Dixsteine Committee. 243 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: I drew up a diagram of how it worked in 244 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: my article in pen Come for the conspiracy diagram, stay 245 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: for the remarkably neat penmanship. It's a classic conspiracy board, 246 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: linking multiple anti union, pro capitalist organizations with financial outfits 247 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: and their leaders. Well worth checking out. We'll link to 248 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: it in our show notes. Throughout his story, Spevak lays 249 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: out an argument noting fourteen discrepancies about what Congress knew 250 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: and apparently suppressed, along with notes about leads they failed 251 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: to follow up on, For example, the fact that the 252 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: Committee ever followed up on the American Liberty League after 253 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: Smedley said they were involved in the plot, or that 254 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: Arne DuPont's Remington Arms Company was ready and willing to 255 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: supply guns for a potential fascist army. Some of what 256 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: Spivak wrote seems questionable. I guess we just weren't able 257 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: to confirm a lot of it because the names of 258 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: bit players and intermediaries have been lost to history. True. 259 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: But there's one thing that was easy to confirm because 260 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: the McCormack Dixtine Committee wrote it right into their official report, 261 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: and to Spevak it was glaring proof of a cover up. 262 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: On the very last page they wrote, the Committee has 263 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: ordered stricken there from certain immaterial and incompetent evidence, or 264 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: evidence which was not pertinent to the inquiry and which 265 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: would not have been received during a public hearing. Oh, 266 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: reading that felt just like taking a fresh hull opinion 267 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: pepper and rubbing it vigorously against mcclaver, meaning it made 268 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: you hot under the collar. Now you speaking my language? Boy? Oh? 269 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: How could they think reducting the names of suspects was 270 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: appropriate or consider curious financial ties as immaterial? I had 271 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: a source, anonymous but reliable, But anonymous but reliable assure 272 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: me that at least some of the suppression orders came 273 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: from the Secretary of the Treasury. Now that's something. And 274 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: let me tell you why, because Treasury secretaries are always 275 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: rich guys who come from big jobs. And the more 276 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: digging I did, the more it seemed the immaterial evidence 277 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: is the carefully guarded secret, the very definition of a 278 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: cover up. So, mister Spivak, you decided to talk with 279 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: committee Chairman McCormack and dick Stein directly, right, Yes, here's 280 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: how it transpired. I go to McCormack's office. Things start 281 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: off genial, Hi, how are you, how's the kid? How's 282 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: the wife, How about them Yankees? Is that ogilvia a salon? 283 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: Perm all the regular questions until I get to my 284 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: sixth question, one that digs Joust a little deeper into 285 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 1: what he called immaterial and what I call the suppression 286 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: of evidence. As soon as it occurs to him that 287 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: his investigating committee is being investigated, he blows his top. 288 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: And that's a metaphor, of course, but boy was he steamed. 289 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: Another metaphor. Tell us how the interview with McCormack ended. Well, 290 00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: He ends the interview and says he'll respond later in 291 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: writing to those of the questions he deems worth answering. 292 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: So I say goodbye, see you in hell. Tell your 293 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: wife and kid. I hate him. Oh and by the way, 294 00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:31,360 Speaker 1: your hair looks like crap. And I stroll on over 295 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: to Dixstein, and that guy is daffier than the well 296 00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: known animated duck. And I don't mean Donald, no, sorry, 297 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: I mean I think it's going to be a trip 298 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: for biscuits, trip fruit biscuits. Yeah, you know, a bunch 299 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: of bushwash, but a waste of time. I mean, except 300 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: when I point out all the financial connections I've been 301 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: reporting on. Dickstein says, I wish you'd have told me 302 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: that while the committee was in session, I'd have called 303 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: Murphy and Morgan and anyone else involved. So when it 304 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 1: comes to the chairman of the committee, we got one 305 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: guy who appears one hundred percent in on the cover 306 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 1: up and one guy who's at best incompetent and at 307 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,360 Speaker 1: worst playing. Spivak really did the work. He was an 308 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,360 Speaker 1: old school gumshoe. Once he knew Congress wasn't asking the 309 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: right questions, he took it upon himself to ask that 310 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 1: I did. And the pieces of a story fit together. 311 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: For conspiracy to work, you have to have multiple parties 312 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,360 Speaker 1: with aligned objectives, and he teases those threads out. I'm 313 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: with you, But there are a lot of ways to 314 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: tell the story, and there isn't just one narrative all 315 00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: historians agree on. We asked our pal Jonathan Katz, author 316 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: of Gangsters of Capitalism, what he's gathered about the alleged 317 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: cover up. I haven't found in my research any direct 318 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 1: evidence of a lobbying campaign by the DuPonts to be like, hey, 319 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 1: McCormack's not asking questions. But even without a direct influenced campaign, 320 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,360 Speaker 1: there has to be the influence of knowing that you're 321 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,040 Speaker 1: going up against extremely powerful people, right, Jonathan says it 322 00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: might have been as simple as a bunch of congressmen 323 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 1: thinking about their reelection campaigns. It's hard to imagine that 324 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: these guys aren't sitting there. They're doing their investigation, and 325 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 1: they're looking at their calendar and their timetable, and they're like, Okay, now, 326 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: our charter basically expires at the end of the year. 327 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: I could use some of my political capital to demand, 328 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: you know, an extension. I could issue subpoenas to earn 329 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 1: they du pont to, you know, come in and and testify, 330 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: um or I don't. And so dick Stein and McCormack 331 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: did what passed as just enough and was simultaneously politically expedient. 332 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: We had Spedley Butler in here, we called Gerald c McGuire, 333 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: we had the lawyer for Sterling. You know, let's let's 334 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: call it a day. And I think that's ultimately what 335 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: they did. And there's one other widely held theory out 336 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 1: they're worth noting that FDR himself was in on the 337 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 1: decision to allow the accused conspirators to skate without punishment 338 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: or embarrassment because he found real leverage and letting them walk, 339 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: as in, I'm going to let you go, and in return, 340 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: mister tycoon, you are going to stand aside and shut 341 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 1: up about my new deal initiatives. That's right. No more 342 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: bellyaching about federal jobs programs, no more whining about unemployment insurance, 343 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: and stop trying to break conservative Democrats off my new 344 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 1: Deal coalition. But this is what I'll say. Alex and 345 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,640 Speaker 1: I have read everything we could get our hands on 346 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: about the business plot, and though there's more than one 347 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: narrative about how it all went down, without Spevak's reporting, 348 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: we'd know practically nothing at all. So many of the 349 00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: records are now gone. Smedley's full testimony for one crucial piece. 350 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: The only parts of it that we have are the 351 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: one Spevak published, and so in that regard it's vital work. 352 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: The bottom line is we just don't totally know for 353 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: sure what happened. But I want to say one more 354 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: thing about Spevak's legacy. He significantly raised the public's awareness 355 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: of the American Liberty League's nefarious side. That was, if 356 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: you remember the creepy pro fascist group the DuPont's and 357 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: JP Morgan financed after Smidley's allegations and Spevak's reporting, people 358 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: were spooked. The American Liberty League claimed to be nonpartisan, 359 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: but the public began to see it as a front 360 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: for some very dangerous things, plus a model for future 361 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: insurrectionist armies. Being implicated in the business plot eroded any 362 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: already shaky claims that the Liberty League was a legitimate, 363 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: respectable organization. It died a quiet, unheralded death. Thanks make 364 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: to God America. And I guess I'll throw myself onto 365 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,360 Speaker 1: that list while I'm at it. That's how I'll be remembered. 366 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: See you want the funny famous kids. But later Titans 367 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: and Tycoons were inspired by the League's time I'm warrn tactics, 368 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: which showed you can push the levers of power slowly, 369 00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: behind the scenes, one district at a time. The Kok 370 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,360 Speaker 1: Brothers saw it. The League did in the thirties, and 371 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: then in the two thousands they said, hold my beer. 372 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: At this point, you're probably wondering about the aftermath. How 373 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: did we as a country get from there to hear? 374 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: And what happens to our hero Smedley Baller? Yes, and 375 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: what happened to me and Lucius well, you two aren't real, 376 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: is the thing. What you're just general representations of anonymous, greedy, 377 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: scheming plutocrats of the era. Oh well, I suppose that 378 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: does explain a few things, Ah, like why we're not 379 00:22:55,400 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: on quikipaedia. Well, I'm real. What winds up happening to me? 380 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: We'll find out together, Smedley. After the break the end 381 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: of our story. All right, your little rat parties over. 382 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: Everyone's gone home but me. I've been waiting patiently, so 383 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: let's hear about the rest of my life. I can 384 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: take it. I've been doing some deep breathing to prepare. Yeah, 385 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't count if you're doing it into a cigarette, 386 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: Major General, you deep breathe all way off, deep breath. 387 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: I have got it. Quit these, okay, Smedley, It's time 388 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 1: to find out what happened to you? Well hot damn 389 00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: at last, blowing the whistle on the alleged Banker's Coup 390 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 1: of nineteen thirty four was not the end of Smedley Baller, 391 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 1: not by a long shot. Now. Speaking out about the 392 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 1: plot had real consequences for Smedley. It further isolated him 393 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: from conventional politics. He lost friends, he knoked just about 394 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: every remaining bridge. Here's talking about Smedley. He is not 395 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: an honored guest at the White House. He's not being 396 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: asked for his opinion on world affairs by the New 397 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: York Times or you know, the policy mandarins of his day. 398 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: His name is never spoken in polite company, but wild. 399 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: He lost his credibility among the mainstream. Blowing the whistle 400 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: made Smedley a hero for working class folks, and it 401 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: really accelerated his transformation into a far left fire brand, 402 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 1: like a caterpillar becoming a beautiful pinko butterfly. In March 403 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: of nineteen thirty five, a couple months after testifying about 404 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: the plot to remove President Roosevelt, Smedley published his most 405 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: famous work, War is a Racket. It's a fifty two 406 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 1: page pamphlet based on his most famous speeches. As Jonathan 407 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: Katz pointed out to us, the pamphlet takes his condemnation 408 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: of powerful interests a step farther and Smedley's own words, 409 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 1: war is a racket. It always has. It is possibly 410 00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:12,360 Speaker 1: the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. 411 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: It is the only one international in scope. It is 412 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: the only one in which the profits are reckoned in 413 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: dollars and losses in lives. We asked Jonathan Cats about it. 414 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: Butler is angling toward what ends up being dubbed in 415 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 1: a later generation the military industrial complex. The allegations of 416 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:34,880 Speaker 1: the military industrial complex the Butler's talking about are very specific. 417 00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: He seeing the people who manufacture munitions, like the DuPont family, 418 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 1: who made their bones producing gunpowder. They essentially tricked the 419 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: American people into joining World War One. Smedley wrote, beautiful 420 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: ideals were painted for our boys who were sent out 421 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: to die. This was the war to end all wars. 422 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: This was the war to make the world safe for democracy. 423 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,400 Speaker 1: No one mentioned to them as they marched away that 424 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: they're going and they're dying would mean huge war profits. 425 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: Smedley talks about what he called the metal business, the 426 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: system of awarding soldiers medals for valor, and he makes 427 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: it clear he thinks it's all a scam to convince 428 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: boys to go off to war and die for some 429 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: honor and a measly wage. I mean, here's the most decorated, 430 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: the most celebrated, the most honored officer in Marine Corps 431 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: history at the time, saying things like having stuffed patriotism 432 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 1: down their throats. It was decided to make them help 433 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 1: pay for the war too, so we gave them the 434 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 1: large salary of thirty dollars a month. All they had 435 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: to do for this munificent sum was to leave their 436 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 1: dear ones behind, give up their jobs, lie in swampy trenches. 437 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,360 Speaker 1: Each canned Willie when they could get it, and kill 438 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: and kill, and kill and be killed. Starting around the 439 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: time of war as a racket's publication, Smedley increasingly considered 440 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: himself to be a radical, anti imperialist, anti capitalist, far 441 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: far outside the mainstream. Don't understell. I even called myself radical, 442 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: straight up, flat out, and I called out so called 443 00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: radicals who are less radical than me. Yes, if you're wondering, 444 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: it was a contest, but no medals on account of 445 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: the earthfore mentioned. Smedley continued to make his living writing 446 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: magazine articles for socialist rags like New Masses and Common Sense. 447 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: He also wrote for mainstream publications like Readers Digest and 448 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,120 Speaker 1: Ladies Home Journal. On top of all this, he did 449 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: radio broadcast as well, and he kept working the speaker's circuit. 450 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: In the span of a couple of years, he claimed 451 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: to have given one thousand, two hundred rousing speeches in 452 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 1: seven hundred different American towns. Many found Smedley's agitating, well, agitating, 453 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, man, So much so that in January of 454 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty six, United States Marine Corps informants infiltrated a 455 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: meeting to keep a close watch on Old Gimlet Eye. 456 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: He spoke at the Cleveland Public Auditorium with a collection 457 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: of radical journalists and anti fascist rabbi, members of the 458 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: Communist Party, and the legendary poet linksd In Hughes. Smedley 459 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,360 Speaker 1: called them everyone in the room to set aside religious 460 00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: and racial feelings and unite against fascism and war. And 461 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 1: how did that go over? You're wondering? Well, the Marine 462 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,360 Speaker 1: Corps spies and attendants concluded Smedley, Butler had either gone 463 00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:28,360 Speaker 1: insane or was a traitor. The shots didn't get it. 464 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,400 Speaker 1: I saw war for the racket that it was and 465 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 1: spoke up accordingly. But Smedley always stopped short of calling 466 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: himself a pacifist or calling for the abolition of the military. 467 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: One biographer points out that Smedley infused his stump speeches 468 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: with diehard support of law and order and duty bound manliness. 469 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: The trick was that I was against war, but couldn't 470 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: come out and say I'm a pacifist. You know, why 471 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: do you know what people hear when you say pacifist, 472 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: they hear weener? You under try, Go ahead, you give 473 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: it a try. Say I identify as a pacifist. Okay, 474 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: here goes, I identify as a pacifist. Yeah, okay, question 475 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: about that? Yeah, sure, When did you discover that you 476 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: are a self righteous weener? Because that's all I heard. 477 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: Very funny, but seriously, yes, part of my message resided 478 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: outside of mainstream political discourse. We've established that. Yet somehow 479 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: I kept ashes in the seats at every stop. That's 480 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: because I came down very much on the side of 481 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: national defense. I wanted a defense that not even a 482 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: rat could crawl through, so decidedly not a weenie. There 483 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: always a marine till the day I die. But let 484 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: me tell you what was really behind my rhetoric. The 485 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: Great War. World War One was supposed to be the 486 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: war to end all wars, but by the mid to 487 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: late nineteen thirties, I could see it was all going 488 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: to happen again, only the second time around it would 489 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: be bigger. We're talking about the long, slow lead up 490 00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: to World War Two here. Unfortunately, Yes, the idiot's running civilization. 491 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: We're going to light it all on fire all over again. 492 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: Roosevelt was one of them, an interventionist through and through. 493 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: He was bounded drag us into the middle of it, 494 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: and as the dominoes fell, leading country after country into 495 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: the Second World War, Smedley always stood against the US 496 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: being pulled into the conflict. The marine, soldiers, sailors, and 497 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: gunboats belonging to the United States should all be brought home. 498 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: Let the financial interests fight their own battles a further. 499 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: The United States needs to get out of the Philippines, Hawaii, Alaska, 500 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: Puerto Rico, and the Panama Canal. Sometimes Smedley took his 501 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: messages far outside the bounds of politeness. What do you mean, 502 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: Like the time I said, if there was another war, 503 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: I'd put Fdr. Son James on the front line. That's 504 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: never the children of the President or the senator or 505 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: the Wall Street elite. It's always the common boys. Or 506 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: there's the time he took to the radio in nineteen 507 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 1: thirty nine speaking directly to American mothers. Now you mothers, particularly. 508 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: The only way you can resist all this war hysteria 509 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: and beating of tom toms is by asserting the love 510 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: you bear your boys. When you listen to some well worded, 511 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: some well delivered war speech, just remember it's nothing but sound. 512 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: No amount of sound can make up for the loss 513 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: of your boy. After you've heard one of those speeches 514 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: in your blood's all hot and you want to bite 515 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: somebody like Hitler, Go upstairs to where your boys asleep. 516 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: Look at him. Put your hand on that spot on 517 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: the back of his neck, the place you used to 518 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: love to kiss when he was a baby. Just rub 519 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: it a little. You won't wake him up. He knows 520 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: it's you. Just look at this splendid young creature who's 521 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: part of yourself. Then close your eyes for a moment, 522 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: and I'll tell you what can happen. Somewhere five thousand 523 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: miles from home, night, darkness, cold, a drizzling rain. The 524 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: noise is terrific. All hell has broken loose. A star 525 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: cell burst in the air. It's unearthly flare lights up 526 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: the muddy field. There's a lot of tangled, rusty barbed 527 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: wires out there, and a boy hanging over them. His 528 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: stomach ripped out, and he's feebly calling for help and water. 529 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: His lips are white and drawn. He's in agony. There's 530 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: your boy, the same boy who's lying in bed tonight, 531 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: the same boy who trusts you. Are you going to 532 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: run out on him? Are you going to let someone 533 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: beat a drama, blow a bugle and make him chase 534 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: after it? Thank God, this is a democracy, and buy 535 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: your voice and your vote, you can say of your boy. 536 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: Those are Smedley's actual words too. And look, we all 537 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: know Smedley is no hero. As we've talked about over 538 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: and over, there have been many times when, by his 539 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 1: own admission, even Smedley was the villain, the very face 540 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: of evil and corruption. But Smedley, given the times, you 541 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: could have gotten away with it, freeing clear. You could 542 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: have been Senator Butler. You could have retired to his 543 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: sweet corporate gig like Douglas MacArthur when he became chairman 544 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: of a typewriter company and lived in the Waldorf Historia. 545 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: That could have been you. That was not my path. 546 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: And you know what, that's the thing I dig about you. 547 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: You dedicated the last years of your life to telling 548 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 1: the masses about all this wrongdoing. You pulled back the 549 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: great curtain of global business and resource extraction. Here you 550 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: are and aristocrat yourself, speaking out about the clear and 551 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: present danger aristocracy poses to all democracy. That's rare in history. 552 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: You traveled the country like a one man protest movement 553 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: against war and imperialism, and people followed you and Smedley 554 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: it almost killed you. Historians talk about what a tremendous 555 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: told the travel schedule took on your health. When you've 556 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: been around as long as I have, you learned that 557 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: all people great and small die, President's, paupers and plutocrats alike. 558 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: The only real choice we have is how we spend 559 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: our time along the way to that unknown, inevitable horizon. 560 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: We just wish you had. I don't want to say 561 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: a better ending, and I don't want to say a 562 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 1: bigger ending, just an ending of any sort. And we 563 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: understand that's because what you were, a part of what 564 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:20,320 Speaker 1: you did makes the story of America complicated. Jonathan Katz 565 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: gets that too. He says we can share the sanitized 566 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,240 Speaker 1: stories of heroes quote unquote like George Patton and Douglas 567 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: MacArthur because everybody knows about the wars they fought in 568 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 1: their legacies aren't as complicated to explain talking about Smedley Butler. 569 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,320 Speaker 1: The good and the bad both require talking about things 570 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: that we don't like to talk about as Americans, but 571 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: we're talking about our own history with Smedley. He was 572 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,760 Speaker 1: involved in so many missions and conflicts that few Americans 573 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: even know about, and to explain what he did requires 574 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: engaging with some uncomfortable truths about atrocities Uncle Sam committed abroad, 575 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: plus facing up to the fact that some of the 576 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: names behind the United States best known institutions were well 577 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 1: actual fascists. That's right. The these facts don't vibe with 578 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 1: the story of America we like to tell ourselves. And 579 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: Major General Butler, you just didn't fit the narrative. Maybe 580 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: that's why you're not in the textbooks. Maybe that's why 581 00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 1: we still haven't learned the lesson you were trying to 582 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 1: teach us. And maybe that's why all those powerful forces 583 00:35:27,720 --> 00:35:31,800 Speaker 1: you were speaking against are alive and well today. So 584 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: watch the end of me, like the end end, sir? 585 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,800 Speaker 1: Are you sure you want to hear this? After all 586 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: I've seen, believe me, I can take it. Okay. It's 587 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,240 Speaker 1: June nineteen forty World War two began some months ago. 588 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: You had come to the hospital complaining of gut pains. 589 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: The doctors called a cancer ethel and the family stayed 590 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: by your side. You had an okay room at Philadelphia's 591 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: Naval Hospital. Decent view, a very good view. Good, that's important. 592 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 1: Your family drove the new car around your car. You 593 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: could see it from the window, though you never got 594 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: a chance to drive it. Smedley. You die on June 595 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 1: twenty first. Huh, that's just good a day as any. 596 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,240 Speaker 1: The very next day, France, thought by all to be 597 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: the most powerful military in the world, surrenders to Hitler's army. 598 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 1: The Second World War continues. Smedley's story falls away from 599 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: the public mind as thousands die on battlefields, then hundreds 600 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: of thousands in their homes, then millions more in death camps, 601 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: and then the atomic bomb. One war ends, another begins. 602 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: Smedley's military successors call this the Cold War. There are 603 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: only a handful of memorials to Smedley Butler that exists today. 604 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,240 Speaker 1: An ordinary headstone in West Goshen Township, Pennsylvania, a plaque 605 00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, and a bench in Haverford. The fancy private 606 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 1: school he dropped out of before heading off to Cuba 607 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: to fight as a teenager. That plaque in Phillies City 608 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,320 Speaker 1: Hall is a commemoration of his time as Director of 609 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:22,280 Speaker 1: Public Safety. There's nothing about a coup or war or 610 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 1: the dangers of dictatorship. Sir. History may never acknowledge that 611 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: you prevented a coup. But Alex said something to me 612 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 1: the other day that got stuck in my head, and 613 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: I think it's the right note to end on the 614 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: real coup, Major General Butler is the rebellion you staged 615 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:48,840 Speaker 1: within yourself. You're one eighty from warhammer to anti war activist. 616 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: That's the coup that mattered most, the coup I staged 617 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 1: on my shelf. Let's hope there's a coup like that 618 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:08,280 Speaker 1: in all of us. Yeah, that's good. I like that, Maggitch, 619 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:16,800 Speaker 1: Let's start a coup. As a production of School of 620 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,240 Speaker 1: Humans and iHeart Podcasts, our hosts are Alex French and 621 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: Ben Bowan. The show was written by Alex French, with 622 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: additional writing by Joe ken Ocean. Original music and scoring 623 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,840 Speaker 1: by Joe ken Ocean, character voices by Joken Ocean. I 624 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 1: broke the story first, Oh and don't you hair? Brained 625 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: history loving Hubris heavy hecks at I Hot, I'll foget 626 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,840 Speaker 1: it anelis but this is our producer. Emilia Brock is 627 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:48,760 Speaker 1: our senior producer. Sound design, mixing and mastering by Alexander Overington. 628 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,280 Speaker 1: Our story editor is Lacy Roberts. Fact checking by Austin Thompson. 629 00:38:55,000 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: Logo illustration by Lucy Knthania. Production support provided by Daisy Church. 630 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,280 Speaker 1: The Heat Fraser is our recording engineer. Recorded at the 631 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: iHeart Studio in New York. Executive producers are Jason English, 632 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: Virginie Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley. If you're enjoying 633 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: the show, help us get the word out by leaving 634 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 1: a rating in your favorite podcast app. Well, clearly you 635 00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 1: enjoyed it. You listened all the way through, so leave 636 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 1: us five stars and should you refuse? My response is 637 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 1: only two words, dry up. Thank you for listening to 638 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:42,760 Speaker 1: Let's start a coupe School of Humans