1 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: Hello, dear listeners. Brian and I are on the road again. 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be on the road again. We're 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: in south By Southwest in Austin, Texas, recording some interviews 4 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: for the pod, which will be excited to share with 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 1: you soon. But in the meantime, we didn't want to 6 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: leave you hanging or pining for us, so we decided 7 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: to dip into our archives and revisit one of our 8 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: favorite episodes on the show, and that is our conversation 9 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: with filmmaking powerhouse Ava d Verney. So we originally spoke 10 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: with Ava last summer while she was editing A Wrinkling Time, 11 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: which just hit theaters this month. So for those of 12 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 1: you who might have missed it the first time around, 13 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: or who wanted an excuse to revisit Ava's brilliance and eloquence, 14 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: this one is for you. Hi Brian, Hi Katie. Well, 15 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: I'm very excited about our podcast today. It's a conversation 16 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: with Ava Daverney, who has become so accomplished she's everywhere 17 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: these days. I first met her at the Sundance Film 18 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,479 Speaker 1: Festival a couple of years ago, and she really wasn't 19 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,119 Speaker 1: a household name back then, but I think today she's 20 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: become one. Of course, she's done such critically acclaimed documentaries, 21 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: like she has a show called Queen Sugar, which has 22 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: also gotten a lot of attention, and of course Selma, right, Brian, 23 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: I mean, that was an amazing film. If you care 24 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: about the civil rights movement, or Lyndon Johnson or how 25 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: the Voting Rights Act was passed, you have to see 26 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: this movie. It became actually very controversial at the time, 27 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: and one of the big controversies around it was why 28 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,479 Speaker 1: Ava was not nominated for Best Director, which we get 29 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: into a little bit in this conversation, and of course 30 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: that omission really helped fuel the Oscars So White campaign, 31 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: which really changed the face literally of the Academy. Anyway, 32 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: we had the privilege of talking to Eva at Disney 33 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: Studios where she was in the middle of a deadline 34 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: for her upcoming movie, A Wrinkle in Time, and we 35 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: covered a lot of ground from her relationship with her 36 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:12,119 Speaker 1: frequent collaborator, somebody named um Oprah I think is her name. 37 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: You may have heard of her. I think that's how 38 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: you pronounce the official Ava diverne Ay Barbie, and how 39 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: she went from doing pr and publicity to making movies, 40 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: a pretty dramatic career transition. And folks, by the way, 41 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: you know the drill. We left our studio, we ventured 42 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: out into the actual world for this recording, and so 43 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: the audio isn't perfect because we did it in Ava's office, 44 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: So we hope you'll forgive us for that. And in 45 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: Ava's office where she had very good snacks, we might add, 46 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: including those little breadsticks with nutella. She told me to 47 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 1: help myself. So what can I say? People, I did? 48 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: You taught me the true meaning of asking forgiveness, not 49 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: permission anyway. So here's our conversation with the one and 50 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: only Ava Diverney. I kept thinking about the Alicia Key 51 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: song This girl is on by Oh my God. Woman. 52 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: First of all, thank you for doing our podcast. You're 53 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: doing a million things, so you're my girl. People don't 54 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: know we hang out when we're Yeah, exactly, we've partied together. 55 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 1: That's your part together. Yeah, well, I'm We first met 56 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: at Sundance and we sat across the table from her. 57 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: I think she probably thought I was super weird at 58 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: the time. Ava, she was obviously doing great things, but 59 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: it was really before a huge development in Ava's career causation. 60 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: We don't know very little to do with it. But 61 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: I was fascinated then by Ava's backstory, which I want 62 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: to get to in a moment, but first we have 63 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: to say mossel mozzle, Ava, because you have been nominated 64 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: for lots o Emmy right for thirteen, eight Emmys, eight 65 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: Emmys for thirteenth. And you know, the great thing about 66 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: it is when it happens, it doesn't feel like you 67 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: thought it would. It feels lovely, but like a cherry 68 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: on top because the main thing was making the piece 69 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: and people loving it and responding to it. So when 70 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: the nominations came in, I was like, oh wow, this 71 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: is lovely. I was more excited for my editor and 72 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: for my my sound mixer who all got nominated and uh. 73 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: And so it just helps me stay focused because I 74 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: just like telling the stories and I like the people's 75 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: reaction because everyone walks up to me about their teeth, 76 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: you know, people walk up, they want to talk about it. 77 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: And so it's been a gift that keeps on giving. 78 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: It's it's still though, must be a nice piece of 79 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 1: validation for you, right, nice, I just didn't doesn't hit 80 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 1: the same as I always dreamed it would. You know, 81 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: you think you're you're making the speech in the mirror 82 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: and you it's your brush, is the is the is 83 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: the trophy, you know what I mean, And you think 84 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: it's gonna feel a certain way. It's really nice, but 85 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: isn't everything that I thought it would be. But it 86 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: did feel I think, uh, sort of like a disk. 87 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: When you weren't nominated for Selma for a lot of 88 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: other people, well, I never thought I would be nominated. 89 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: I'm on record a long time before the nomination saying 90 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: it wouldn't want because I don't know anyone in my 91 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: in my in my branch. It's very much about you know, 92 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: I have no connect Cider's Club, Yeah, and I don't. 93 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: I don't know them and they don't know me. And 94 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: so that's a big part of what that is. It's 95 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: just that connection with your peers, and I didn't have 96 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: it at that. Hollywood is just like high school. And 97 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: another little bit as a movie goer, I really resented 98 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: it even if you didn't. Even if it didn't but 99 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: but no, no, really, if I didn't even know you 100 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: and the movie Selma and the fact that um, I 101 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: thought it was a fantastic movie, and I think it 102 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: should have been recognized. But I think this was sort 103 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: of on the cusp of people understanding how undiverse the Oscar. 104 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: It was. The year before this was the that was 105 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: the year that said all that conversation. It helped to 106 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: spur the Oscar. And I think that that was valid 107 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: that came from the fans and uh and it was 108 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: a valid conversation that needed to happen, not just for 109 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: people of color, but for women, which has become a big, 110 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: big conversation now, so they people think it differently about it, 111 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: and so I'm happy that that campaign was effective. Do 112 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: you think it drove real change? It did? I mean 113 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: it was. It was definitely had fundamental changes within the 114 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: Academy in terms of the ways in which new members 115 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: are brought in, in terms of the ways in which 116 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 1: the conversations that are had around the table. Um. I 117 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 1: know because I've been sitting in them and I can 118 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 1: see how they've changed since I joined the Academy in 119 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve to now radically different. Isn't it amazing 120 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 1: how when people are made aware of an issue, how 121 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: rapidly in some cases change can happen so fast it 122 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: really can what do you think it were the keys 123 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: to to changing sort of the color if you will, 124 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: at the academy and and and the choices they were making. 125 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it was the uproar and the 126 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 1: outrage and the real urgency that people were feeling at 127 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: the time about this is unacceptable. And it's not as 128 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 1: if the conversation hadn't happened before. But there was something 129 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: that alchemy about, you know what, whatever was going on 130 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: the culture around that time. Black lives matter, Absolutely there 131 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: was there was at the forefront. There was a conversation, 132 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: whether it be people of color or women, that this 133 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 1: was no longer something that could be set aside. But 134 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: when you're talking about change, you know, we were talking 135 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: about another conversation we had about um about your your 136 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: dock and your dock work. How quickly I even look 137 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: at the trans community, how quickly. I mean, I can 138 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: think of three years ago, no one even knew how 139 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: to articulate or what it meant or how or had 140 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: a respect for it being a uh, you know, an 141 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: issue that we all had to embrace or a reality 142 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: that we had to embrace or we should embrace. And 143 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: now it feels very you could have a conversation with people, 144 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: and they may not know everything that they should know, 145 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: but there's at least a base of recognition. And that's 146 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: been I mean, what would you say, I'd say to 147 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: three years and being conservative, I think you're right, and 148 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: I think that Caitlyn Jenner did a lot to bring 149 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: it out into the forefront and then that provided I 150 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: think a foundation for a conversation to talk about it 151 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: and then actually paid the way for a documentary like 152 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: that couldn't have happened, I think in a weird way 153 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: without kids, when kind of making more people understand that 154 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: this was an actual phenomenon and that this was something 155 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: that was affecting a lot of people that was being 156 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: kept in the closet. That's a that's a reality for 157 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: a lot of people. And before we go further down 158 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: this road, I want to talk a little bit about 159 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: who you are and where you come from. People you 160 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: don't know because you grew up a few miles but 161 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: also a world away from here near Compton, and you've 162 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: talked a lot about this. How how did your childhood 163 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: and background kind of shape the director that you are today. 164 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 1: Had a beautiful childhood, very you know, lovely community, very 165 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 1: tight knit, a gorgeous, loving family. UM. But my childhood 166 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: was set in a community that was, you know, uh, 167 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: kind of besieged by l A p D at that time, 168 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 1: that really used excessive force and instances when it wasn't necessary, 169 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 1: and instances of everyday life the constant surveyor the police 170 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: presence living under that made it so that I'm hyper 171 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: aware of issues of criminal justice and and and the 172 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: ways in which law enforcement of really um can kind 173 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: of rule with an iron hand in some places. And 174 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: so that that's made its way in my work, from 175 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: the early narrative films to The Docks Now to the 176 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: TV show. Uh, It's just something that's a part of 177 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: my DNA, and so that I just want to continue 178 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: to talk about. Did you have any firsthand experiences they've 179 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: growing up where you know an image has stuck with 180 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: you or an experience has stuck with you. I just 181 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: read a Brian Stevenson Peace and the New York Review 182 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: of Books about he was Did You So Great? And 183 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: I guess that same story about being a young lawyer 184 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: in Atlanta and a racially mixed neighborhood was also in 185 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: his book Just Mercy. You know you and I both 186 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: have a complete crush on Bryani really equal Equal Justice Initiative, 187 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: and my daughter's working for the Southern Poverty Law Center 188 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: exactly exactly we have to connect that. But anyway, I 189 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: mean that experience he described Brian real quickly. He was 190 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: coming home. He was listening to a radio show about 191 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: sliding the family stone. You could just put yourself. He 192 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: was staying in the cars sometimes you do when you're 193 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: you're mesmerized by something on the radio. And Atlanta police 194 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: officer came. Apparently someone had made a call. He was, 195 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: as I said, in a racially mixed neighborhood, basically almost 196 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: you know, killed him. And the fear that he had 197 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: as this Harvard educated lawyer coming back from his firm, 198 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: and I don't know that the scene, he said, was 199 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: so profoundly moving to me, and it really made you 200 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: realize in sharp relief what it was like. What about you, Eva, 201 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: Was there anything for you that made you think this 202 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: is completely screwed up? Many many little things throughout my 203 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: my growing up, but there was one in particular around 204 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: my father recently onto another realm recently departed, and he 205 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: was in his our house watering the lawn in the 206 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: backyard of his own home and police came through the 207 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: side gate and wrestled him to the ground in his 208 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: own backyard. We had to rush out of the house 209 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: UM with no warning, that didn't say anything, no guns 210 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: drawn on us. My mother and and it was me. 211 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: My sisters weren't there. I don't know, maybe maybe eleven 212 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: or twelve, something like bad to see my father such 213 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: a proud, elegant man on the ground, UM with police 214 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: on top of him, guns pointed at us, not knowing 215 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: who we were. And basically in the end they said 216 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: he matched the description of someone who was running through 217 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: the neighborhood. UM, despite the fact that he was saying, 218 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: this is my home. I'm the homeowner in his own backyard. 219 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: Not safe. So those kinds of like I said, excessive 220 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: police force and a disregard for the humanity of people, uh, 221 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 1: something that I grew up with. It was just a 222 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: part of daily life. When you spoke very eloquently about 223 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: this in the Atlantic, you said you'd see a cop 224 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: growing up and you didn't think safety like your counterpart 225 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: who didn't grow up in Compton. You'd think, oh boy, 226 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: what are they coming for and who are they coming 227 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: for yeah, exactly. So it's be because of instances like that, 228 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: So you know, I find it, it makes its way 229 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: in my work, and at one point I would try 230 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: to push that away. And so I need to really 231 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: engage with Hollywood in the ways that our standard Hollywood. 232 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:29,199 Speaker 1: But I've just tried to embrace the fact that these 233 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: are the things I'm interested in, and it's okay to 234 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: talk about those things, and whether it's a documentary or 235 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: whether it's like a series like Queen Sugar, you know, 236 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: to be able to find the spaces where I can 237 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: say the things I want to say about these issues 238 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: is okay to do. I read Eva, I learned something 239 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: new about you every day, and I read that you 240 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: actually helped cover the o J trial for ye did? 241 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: How did I not know that? And you became disillusioned 242 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: with journalism. Yeah, I really really wanted to do what 243 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: you do, Okay. I really wanted to be a broadcast journalist. 244 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: I don't know what that was in me for all 245 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: through high school and uh and going through college, that 246 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 1: was what I wanted to do. And so anyway, I 247 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: got this prestigious internship with the CBS Evening News. This 248 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: isn't the Dan and rather Connie chung Era the small 249 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 1: window when it was both of them right, almost as 250 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: prestigious as the later Katie Kurrik almost, but it was 251 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: a slim window when there was the two of them. 252 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 1: And that landed at some point around the trial. Anyway, 253 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: the trial was just starting. I got to sign my 254 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: juror packet. I was assigned to one specific juror, and 255 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: I was like, this is it. It's a few short 256 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: months and I'll be on the air anchoring like this 257 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: is it's all happening for me? And um, And basically 258 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 1: I was kind of capped out in front of a 259 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: juror's house and um and you know, kind of invited 260 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: to kind of look through her I don't know, trash things, 261 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 1: mail get a sense of when she came home, who 262 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: was coming, And I just felt like that's not what 263 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: I went to. It was around the time O J. 264 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: Tim I think things the traditional news had to become 265 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: a tad more tabloid e to compete with the new world. 266 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: I think I felt that, and so things were changing 267 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: and I didn't I didn't take to it. Well, I 268 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: wasn't good at it, and I got no trash, no dirt, Noh, yeah, 269 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: Well that was a bad assignment and probably not a 270 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: fair representation of the kind of work might have been 271 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: able to do. I wouldn't stuck with it, you know. 272 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: I was just I couldn't see through when you idealize something, 273 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: you know. Even that that brings me back to though, 274 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: the o J trial, and I just want to kind 275 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: of take a left turn for a moment, because I 276 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: was in the hallway when that verdict was announced, and 277 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: I was actually standing near o J's kids. And I'm 278 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: not sure if either of you remember. Of course you 279 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: remember the external outside reaction, but the black and white 280 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: reaction was dramatically but I mean, I know you remember that. 281 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: But in that hallway was a microcosm of sorts of 282 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: this racial divide in this country. And I'm curious what 283 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: you thought about the reaction by the African American community, 284 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: because I have to say I was. I was stunned. Um. 285 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: You know, I knew Johnny Cochrane very well and the 286 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: whole defense team. I actually loved Johnny Cochrane, and and 287 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: yet it was pretty clear that o J had committed 288 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: this crime, and the jubilation when he was not convicted, 289 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: when he was acquitted, and the image of this very 290 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: different reaction from black and white America is still somewhat 291 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: hard for me, less hard for me to understand given 292 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: everything that I've explored and read and people I've talked to, 293 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: But help me understand it a little more. I mean, 294 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: I think it was and we've had, you know, both 295 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: documentary and narrative pieces that have since explored that whole case. 296 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: I mean, it was siminar case and American criminal justice, 297 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: but also speak so clearly to know the racial divide, 298 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: and I think, you know, just being around at that 299 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: time I was in college, the feeling was know so 300 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: often the criminal justice system is unjust towards the black man, right, 301 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: It's so skewed, it's so destructive. I mean, day in 302 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: and day out, years and years of never winning, of 303 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: never that the win on such a high in such 304 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: a high profile way, even though intellectually you know this 305 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: is not a good guy. But the optics and the 306 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: triumph of finally being on the on the winning side, 307 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: I think was such a powerful um It was such 308 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: a powerful feeling. Did you feel that way? I don't 309 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: remember how I felt at the time about it. I 310 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: don't know if it was following that close I was 311 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: in college and having a good time, but I do 312 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: remember a sense of kind of drama and excitement and 313 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: energy during the the high speed chase. I was in 314 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: l A. I saw it go by. I mean, at 315 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: some point it became um, you know when when I 316 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: was young and then watching it, it became it was 317 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: entertainment in a way, you know, and not regarding it 318 00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: as you know, a life or death matter, and and 319 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: people who lost their lives over this, you know, it 320 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: became spectacle. It was a cultural spectacle. I think that's 321 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: how people, you know, you know African Americans. Uh, some 322 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: people were able to divorce themselves from the actual lives 323 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: lost and say, wow, we won when really it wasn't 324 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: quite the wind that that that it was embraced as 325 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: at the time. So rather than pursue journalism, you decided 326 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 1: to move toward the entertainment industry. So I just forget 327 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 1: that that you wanted to do. For all, they're not 328 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,719 Speaker 1: going to be going through. But you chose a kind 329 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: of unconventional path for what you're doing now. You started 330 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: your own marketing and publicity agency, and you did that 331 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 1: for many years, even after you had started making films. 332 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: How did that training and background inform your filmmaking? I 333 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: loved films, so what that did is just allowed me 334 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: to immerse myself in film even more. Uh So, I 335 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: started out after the news stint um, working for studios 336 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: and publicity firms that specialized in films. How do you 337 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: as a film go or when you think about how 338 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 1: do you know that a film is coming out? You 339 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: know how whatever whether it's the commercial, it's the red carpet, 340 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: it's the entertainment to nice piece, it's the review in 341 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: the newspaper, all the ways that you know that a 342 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: film is coming out, that's what the public system the 343 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: marketers to do. So that's what I did, and I 344 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 1: loved it because it gave me close proximity to filmmakers 345 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: and I love sets and movies and so just working 346 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: for thirteen years and film that closely gave me a 347 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: set of tools that really made up for not going 348 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: to film school. Because I didn't go to film school, 349 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: but I was working as a publicist on film sets 350 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 1: and traveling with filmmakers, and so when I decided to 351 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 1: make my own films, I had some basse uh to 352 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: go from. Even though I hadn't gone to a traditional school, 353 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: and so all that marketing experience must have come in 354 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: incredibly handy because so much of filmmaking today obviously is 355 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: the artistry and what you're doing to to produce this 356 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: this piece of work, but also to make sure it's 357 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:03,239 Speaker 1: seen and heard and that people are aware of it. 358 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure that's been Have you continue to 359 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: get where your marketing has in some saying, it's really odd. 360 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: I don't think about marketing when I'm casting. I don't 361 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 1: think about it when I'm making the thing. Uh, And 362 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: I think, knowing so much about marketing publicity, I know 363 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 1: that you can market and publicize anything. So I just 364 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: let myself be free with what I'm doing when the 365 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: time comes to market and publicize. I can have different 366 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: kinds of conversations with studios and networks than a lot 367 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: of my filmmaking partners do our colleagues do, because I 368 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: know what they're talking about in a in a deep way. Um, 369 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:38,719 Speaker 1: But I really don't think about I don't think when 370 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: i'm casting, oh this person will be good on a poster, 371 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: or oh this person. I know that I can publicize 372 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: this piece of paper sitting on the desk. I can 373 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: do that. I can make you want to read this 374 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,479 Speaker 1: piece of paper on the very useful even after the 375 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: film is right right. So it allows me to be 376 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: free in the creative because I don't feel constrained by 377 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: having to do certain things in order to get publicity. 378 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: Didn't you weren't working in publicity and then you got 379 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: hired to Actually that's what what movie was? That was that? 380 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: So in earlier iteration you were actually I read did 381 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 1: his homework and he tells me, really, but basically you 382 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: startedst for someone. How crazy is that? Wait? How did 383 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: that happen? And then he became the director? I know 384 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: it was Lee Daniels was directing and I was not 385 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: directing yet. I was asked to come on and be 386 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: the publicist for it because they wanted to have conversations 387 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 1: with the King of State and they wanted someone to 388 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: be in the middle of that and so liaison between 389 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,439 Speaker 1: the filmmaker and the family, and that's what I was 390 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: hired to do by path A, the French financers. I 391 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: still have the contract where I signed to be the publicist, 392 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: but the film never went forward, so that fell apart. 393 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: I did get paid though, and so years later, maybe 394 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: five years later. You know life, you know, life is mysterious. Crazy. 395 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 1: Daniels made The Butler, and he said that he had 396 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: sort of made his civil rights movie, so he didn't product. 397 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: So yeah, he left the project and David or Yellow, 398 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 1: wo had been cast by him and remained with the project. 399 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: David Yellow was the actor who played Dr. King. I 400 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: just happened to work with David Yellow on my little 401 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: indie film. So David said, you know, this film doesn't 402 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: have a director. You're a director. I want to work 403 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: with the kid. Can I put you together with the 404 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: with path A, the French financiers. And I was like, yeah, 405 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 1: I know them already. I'm the publicist for this movie. 406 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: You want to kiss David on the mouth? I do, 407 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: and I do often. Yes, yes, yes, he's a great friend. 408 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: But yeah he Basically, when I think of like one 409 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: sim in a moment, of one person who made a 410 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: critical decision that helped me sit where I am today 411 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: talking to you at Disney on you know, posting Wrinkling Time, 412 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,959 Speaker 1: it was David connecting me to Sama. Well. It had 413 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: a twenty million dollar budget and while I think obviously 414 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: clearly David thought you were extraordinarily talented and had great potential. 415 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: I mean that was a pretty big leap, wasn't it. Ava. 416 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, the film before was two hundred thousand 417 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: to twenty million. But you know the bottom line is, 418 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: so many of my male counterparts make that leap and 419 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: no one blinks an eye. I mean it's a it's 420 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: a standard leap from Indy two million range. So I 421 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: mean it's not unprecedented in any way, and it was 422 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: quite easy. So without relitigating the kind of the controversy 423 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: around how lb J was portrayed in that film, because 424 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: I think that's been discussed at length, I do want 425 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 1: to know your view on sort of how much of 426 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: responsibility filmmakers have when they're depicting historical events to be 427 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: as truthful as possible, or is there artistic license to 428 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: tell the story in a way that the diverges a 429 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: little bit from the facts of history. Where where is 430 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 1: that line drawn? To you? Yeah, I think it was 431 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: interesting because during that time there was a bar that 432 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: I was being held to, a standards that was being 433 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: held to that. You know, counterparts who are not African 434 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: American are not held to you know, when I look 435 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 1: at Oliver stone when I look at Catherine Bigelow, when 436 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: I look at many many people who've taken a really Scott, 437 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: I mean so many people that are dealing with issues 438 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: around history or or or true events, UM, that are 439 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: kind of not ricked over those coals. I think there 440 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: are stones movies aren't true to history. But the idea 441 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 1: that when you say the word story, you're inserting UM 442 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 1: opinion perspective in a certain point of view. I mean, 443 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: we can all tell the story of sitting here in 444 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: this room together right now, and we will all tell 445 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: it in a different way. I'm seeing and feeling different things, 446 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: and you may be sealing our feeling and that's your 447 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: version of the story and your version of the story. 448 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 1: Who's to say what's wrong and what's not? And I 449 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: so I think gross distortions are one thing. I think 450 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 1: perspective is another. And in Selma, I took the perspective 451 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: of an African American community and the ways in which 452 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: lb lb J was regarded by us by a lot 453 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: of black folk, and uh, and so that was deemed 454 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 1: as wrong and kind of held up as wrong by 455 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: the LBG LBJ Library. But again, all I was saying 456 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: was it's a matter of perspective, and can't we invite 457 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: more perspectives into a historical context. What did you make 458 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 1: of that whole controversy? But I've said that before. We'll 459 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: have more with Ava Daverney from her office here on 460 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: the Disney lot in beautiful downtown Burbank right after this. 461 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: And now back to our conversation with Ava Daverney. Let's 462 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: talk about what you're doing now, because we're here in 463 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: in Burbank and lovely downtown Burbank and you are editing 464 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: your brains out on this new movie or working on 465 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: called A Wrinkling Time, which of course many of us 466 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: read as children. This is something that you're working on 467 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: with Oprah Winfrey. She's one of the stars. She's one 468 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,479 Speaker 1: of the stars. And Crisp and you guys have been 469 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 1: shooting in New Zealand, Is that right? Yeah? We shot 470 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: Mndy and Reese and Oprah and Eye and Storm read 471 00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: the Star of the film, Young Star of the Film. 472 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: I went to New Zealand. I never know you can 473 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: have so much fun, you know, in another in another 474 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: in a place that just it's very pristine. It's just nature. 475 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: It's untapped. Nature's where we were and I'm from the continent, 476 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 1: from the city. I like city girls, Like what is 477 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: one to do here? Everything? You know what I mean? 478 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: What did you do? I just make a movie? Like 479 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: I don't swim, like I don't. I don't like dogs 480 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: and animals like I really, I like to be inside 481 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: and in the city, like I am not. Like I've 482 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: never not a hiker, never camped like none of that. 483 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: Zealand loving it boots mad up to my ankles in 484 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: the jungles in the forest, and they have a little 485 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: bit of everything. I thought. And I'm like forty four 486 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: years old experiencing nature untouched for the first time. How 487 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: we were everybody about three weeks? And I visited over 488 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: that year before four times, and the scouting in the preparation. 489 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I want to go to New Zealand. 490 00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: Oh you'll love it. Will come for the premiere? Okay, yeah, 491 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: when is it? Times in March next year. I definitely 492 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 1: want to go when it's warm, because they're they're summer 493 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: is our winter. So I was thinking about maybe trying 494 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 1: to do a bite trip to New Zealand. You love it, 495 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: you love it, and you can finish it up with 496 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 1: the premiere of. I don't have a problem. But how 497 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: did you and Oprah become friends and colleague? It was 498 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: around David Yellow. He's like my favorite god from six 499 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: Degrees of obviously initially with Selma, No, initially before that, 500 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 1: he had given her when they were working on the Butlers. 501 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: He played her son. And he was in the small 502 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: film for me that at one Sundance and he said, hey, 503 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,640 Speaker 1: check out this film. I man. I said, I can't 504 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: believe you're asking out for win For to watch her 505 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: indie film that made for two dollars. But he did, 506 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: and she did. She watched it, and she wrote me 507 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: and said that she and she tweeted me. I thought 508 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 1: I framed the tweet. I was that over Winfree tweeted 509 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: me and but she tweeted that she liked the film 510 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: and encouraged me able to see it. And from there 511 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: as it continued on um, we started to all collaborate 512 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: on Selma and next Queen Sugar and next Wrinkling Time. 513 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: And you told a very funny story about bringing flowers 514 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: to Oprah's house. All right, Well, you know the first 515 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: time I'm invited to her home was up for Mother's Day. 516 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: I brought my grandmother. Uh, and she had a lovely 517 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: Mother's Day brunch. And I went in and of course 518 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: you're gonna bring flowers to someone's come to their homes. 519 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 1: So I went, Katie. I spent the most I've ever 520 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 1: spent on flowers. I went to the fanciest place in 521 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: l A. How much did you spend on It was like, 522 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: it's like five the flowers. I mean, that's like, that's 523 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 1: what's right. And so I went and I bought these 524 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: flowers because it's Oprah. I really want to make a 525 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,479 Speaker 1: good impression. I wanted to let her know how much 526 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: she means to me. Have these flowers. I go in 527 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: and I give them to her, and she's lovely and gracious. 528 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,880 Speaker 1: She looks at them like she's never seen flowers. Oh oh, 529 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: aren't they lovely? Thank you? And she takes the flowers 530 00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: and she doesn't hand them off, she takes herself. She 531 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 1: puts them in the sink, the whole thing, and out 532 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: the window of the sink, I can see past the 533 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: kitchen window a field of endless flowers. She's got a 534 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: garden that looks like the botanical gardens of whatever. The 535 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 1: best botanical gardens are with like gardeners in green green jackets, 536 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: like tending to the tulips that was that there was 537 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: no garden. What is it that makes Oprah that you 538 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: know what I mean, to not blink and eye to 539 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: still make you feel special even though you brought flowers 540 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: when she's got to fill the flower it's just the 541 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: extra thing. She's one of those people they you say, 542 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: you leave her feeling better about yourself, even in a 543 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: quick encounter. It's lovely lady, and she's very normal. She's 544 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: a very normal, lovely woman. So I know we've got 545 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: limited time, and I do want to ask you in 546 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,479 Speaker 1: the wake of thirteen about the prospects for criminal justice 547 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: reform in this country, because that supposed to be the 548 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: one thing that Democrats and Republicans could get together by 549 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: a partisan moment exactly didn't happen last year. The prospects 550 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: have gone down dramatically under President Trump. Where do you 551 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: see this issue going? You know, I don't. I don't 552 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: have the answers to where it's going, especially when I 553 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: think of the political layer and how dire things are 554 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: right now. But I know what it's done in the community. Uh, 555 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: It's created a unity and a real strength around the 556 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: issues where you know, places that might once have been 557 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: fractured around it are really coming together and holding hands. 558 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: It's a very intersectional effort in terms of you know, 559 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: you can see Black Lives Matter activists connected with Native 560 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: Americans in their plight. You can see Native Americans, uh, 561 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: you know, focused on the Flint water crisis and starting 562 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: to see the connections between people who are marginalized across 563 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: you know, color, religion. I mean the ways in which 564 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: all kinds of communities of color and marginalized people are 565 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,959 Speaker 1: standing up for Muslim Americans. So there's something that's happening 566 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: there that I think I have to be hopeful is 567 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: and then and then just like minded you know, uh, 568 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: you know, liberal allies who who aren't of color and 569 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: who aren't women right saying we will stand with you 570 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: and we we are part of this. I feel that, um, 571 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: and I think that's only going to increase as the 572 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: kind of the opposition increases. Even the Koch Brothers are 573 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: behind criminal justice reform, and they you know here they 574 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,959 Speaker 1: are have very disparate views from sort of the traditional 575 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: progressive point of view, but uh, they feel strongly that 576 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: something has got to be done about mass incarceration and 577 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: criminal justice reform. But this woman, Agnes Gunn have you 578 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: heard of uh? And what she did? She saw at 579 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: the New York Film Festival premiere. She immediately called the 580 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: Ford Foundations and said what can I do? They said, oh, 581 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: you got money, what do you want to do? And 582 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: she decided to sell her her artwork UM and create 583 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: a fund for a criminal justice Art for Justice a 584 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty million dollars UH that she's put aside 585 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: from her art sales specifically earmarked for criminal justice reform. 586 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: So people are, you know, from that to people that 587 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: are planning community actions in their neighborhoods. There's a lot 588 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: going on. But clearly President Trump and Attorney General Sessions 589 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: in particular have cut against that grain. And they believe 590 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: in the old you know, policy of mandatory minimums and 591 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: lock them up and and all the rest. Do you 592 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: think that they're doing this because substantively they believe in 593 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: those policies or do you think there are political motivations 594 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: behind that? Oh? Political motivations. I think they're racist policies, 595 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: misogynistic policies, policies that are at odds with the good 596 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: of humanity. So they're going a race card in your 597 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: in your mind, I think that they are not that 598 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: they're disingenuous in their you know, statements that they're they're 599 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: looking to make America great. The question is what America 600 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: are they trying to make great? It's a very thin slice, 601 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 1: and it leaves behind and leaves out a whole bunch 602 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: of people that look like me and so uh so. Yeah, 603 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: you know, the easy sound bite is to say they're 604 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: playing the race car. But that's not what I'm interested 605 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: in talking about. I'm interested in saying, you know, these 606 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: folks are saying one thing and behaving another way, and 607 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: there are a lot of people who have kind of 608 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: blinders on as to the real destruction that's happening in 609 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: terms of the fabric of what holds us all together. 610 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: So do you think, I mean, what what can be dune? 611 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: What more? I mean? I think sometimes people see a 612 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: movie like Thirteenth which I thought was so extraordinary, my daughter, 613 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: I thought it was so important, and and they say, 614 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,479 Speaker 1: we've got to change this, but they also in some 615 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: ways feel powerless, you know. So someone listening to this 616 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: wanted to do something that would contribute to some kind 617 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: of transformation for the criminal justice system or some kind 618 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: of change. What would you tell them to do? Well? 619 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: I think you know, the reason why I didn't put 620 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: any easy solutions or one number of website or anything 621 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: at the end of thirteen or call to action or 622 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: a call to action is because you know, it is 623 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: an an individual quest. You know, who were you at 624 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: this time and what did you do? You know, during 625 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: these circumstances you were in the world at this time, 626 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 1: you saw an injustice. What did you do? And that 627 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: answer is going to be different for everyone. For Agnes 628 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: Kunn it was one thing. From Malkia Cyril, who works 629 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: in Oakland and organizes folks on the ground there, it's 630 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: a different thing. And so the question is a personal 631 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: to intimate question because I think it's really kind of 632 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: surface to donate or or or sign a petition. Our 633 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: question with thirteen is look inside. What of this whole 634 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: story really really hit your heart? And what can you 635 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: do where you are? And some of it, ave, I 636 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: think is just asking people to see the world different 637 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: and behave and treat and treat it right. And it 638 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: comes to would be it could inform their day to 639 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: day interactions and how they analyze a news story. Or 640 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: how they look at something that's transpiring in their neighbor absolute, 641 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: or how they teach their children. I wanted to ask 642 00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: you about Central Park five because you are now doing 643 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: scripted version of that story for Netflix. Something that I 644 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: covered um I interviewed the victim of of of a 645 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 1: rape and brutal beating in Central Park for which these 646 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:17,320 Speaker 1: kids were blamed and convicted and by President Trump, who 647 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: took out a full page ad, as I recall at 648 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,359 Speaker 1: the time, saying that these people who were accused of 649 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 1: the crime and later exonerated, tell me why how that 650 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,319 Speaker 1: came about, and why you're excited about this project. I'm 651 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: on fire for this project. This is something that I 652 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: heard about when I was a teenager. Those guys at 653 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: the same age as I am, and I was on 654 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: the East Coast in Los Angeles. They were in New 655 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 1: York and Harlem, uh and I remember hearing it and 656 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 1: and tuning into it because they were my age. They 657 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: look like me, they look like my friends. And I 658 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: remember because the news kept talking about this word wilding, wilding, 659 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 1: and I was like, what's wilding? What it was? I 660 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: called my cousin who lives in New York. I was like, 661 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: what's wilding is that? Is that a slaying like New 662 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 1: York slaying. They're like, nah, we don't know it is right, 663 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: So even that term is so fascinating. Well, it was 664 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: a made up term by the media that was that 665 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,359 Speaker 1: was based on a on a slang term called wilding out, 666 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 1: which is something totally different. It's like I'm just gonna 667 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: while out tonight have fun. And so it was just 668 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: this whole distortion of black youth culture at the time 669 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,840 Speaker 1: that really just you know, came into my head and 670 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: just never let go that. When I saw Sarah Burns 671 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,439 Speaker 1: is great documentary Central Park five just ignited it even more. 672 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,439 Speaker 1: And when I got to kind of follow where these 673 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: guys what they had gone through, it really, um it 674 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: just took hold of my heart. So I started to 675 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: correspond with one of them, Raymond Santana, on Twitter. It 676 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: actually reached out to me on Twitter city like my stuff. 677 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, you wanted this Gentral 678 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 1: Park five. We started to correspond and I started to 679 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 1: ask about their rights, and um, over two years, we've 680 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 1: developed it and I'm gonna shoot it next year. Yeah, 681 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: twill be out for the thirtieth anniversary. Of the crimea 682 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: and Twitter seems to be playing a central role in 683 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,320 Speaker 1: your career because you're set also for Netflix to direct 684 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,239 Speaker 1: this movie starring Rihanna and Luke Pete and Yongo that 685 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: started as a kind of internet dream on Twitter. But 686 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,799 Speaker 1: we have confirmed that that's not a done deal yet. 687 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: But the ladies are all talking about it and we'll 688 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 1: see if we can. We can, uh, if it's something real, 689 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: but it's fun. I mean, just the power of the 690 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: people on Twitter. Can you just briefly tell us that 691 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: story just just a Twitter idea, an idea that actually 692 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: started on Tumbler and then Twitter and then kind of 693 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: made its way around social media from a couple of 694 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: different fans who saw this picture of Lupita and Rihanna 695 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: at a fashion show and started to make up stories 696 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: about the picture, and it started to go viral. Some 697 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,840 Speaker 1: of these different ones went viral, and eventually studios started 698 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: well online people said, oh, wouldn't be great if Evid directed, 699 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 1: Sarey wrote it and these women were in a movie 700 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: and uh, and then studio started calling and going to 701 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: do it. We're all going to do but we're all 702 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,359 Speaker 1: talking about it. That's crazy, isn't it? How these were 703 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: these ideas bubble up you never now And finally I 704 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,040 Speaker 1: know you're you're itching to continue your editing process, and 705 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,240 Speaker 1: you're so kind to give us even this much time. 706 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: But I have to ask you about the Ava Da 707 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: Barney Barbie, right, how it was that that was a 708 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,319 Speaker 1: thing that just even now when I hear about it, 709 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: it just tickles me. Ah, that is a thing that 710 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: even you know, when we were started the conversation talking 711 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: about how the Emmy's feel and all that stuff, that 712 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 1: feels like I thought an Emmy would feel that Barbarie, 713 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,840 Speaker 1: I mean, what a thing? How how can it be? 714 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: I used to love barbies. That was my first storytelling. 715 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: It's playing with barbies and making up those stories. And 716 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: when I saw the time you probably didn't have many 717 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: barbies who look like I did not. I did not, 718 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: I did not, And so I mean, what a thing. 719 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,919 Speaker 1: And she has her own director's chair and she's got 720 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:47,280 Speaker 1: like like and it's just that's the thing that really 721 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: lifts my heart. And yeah, well you've got your own Barberie. 722 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: You gotta all these Emmy nominations doing incredible work. I mean, 723 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,760 Speaker 1: do you have a second to say, take a breath, 724 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: Eva and say, wow, this is happening for me and 725 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:09,399 Speaker 1: I feel so so happy. I do, and it's so 726 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: cool that I get to talk to you this week. 727 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 1: Because I was just talking with Oprah, I said, this 728 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,240 Speaker 1: is a really special week for me because on Monday's 729 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 1: Central Park five was announced. Um. On Tuesday, we had 730 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,719 Speaker 1: this big cover of Ebony magazine, which is a you know, 731 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: landmark magazine in the black community, with the cast of 732 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: Queen Sugar, a show that came out of my head 733 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,439 Speaker 1: in my heart, which we didn't even have a chance. 734 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: That was Tuesday. On Wednesday, we released the first pictures 735 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,879 Speaker 1: of Wrinkle, the first pictures that anyone had seen of it. 736 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 1: And then today Thursday, I sit with you with the 737 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: Emmy nominations and I can just say, wow, a week 738 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: of beauty and happiness. I feel so happy. You know. Yes, 739 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 1: I'm moving around, I'm going fast, but I am smelling 740 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 1: the roses and they smell good. They smell beautiful. They 741 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,359 Speaker 1: should because everything is coming up roses for you. Thank 742 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: you so much. This was so funny. We can't wait 743 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: to see what you do next for next and next, 744 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:07,399 Speaker 1: Thanks Katie, appreciate, Thank you. Bye to the team who 745 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 1: helps make this show possible. Thank you, Thank you very 746 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: much our producer Gianna Palmer, our production assistant Nora Richie, 747 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 1: Ryan Connor for recording Burbank, Jared O'Connell for mixing this show, 748 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: plus of course alis At Bresnik on social media and 749 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: Emily Beana who holds down the Fort at Katie Kurk Media. 750 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,399 Speaker 1: Mark Phillips wrote, are fantastic theme music. Thank you Mark. 751 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 1: If you have questions, comments or concerns less you forget, 752 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 1: you can email us at comments at currect podcast dot 753 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: com or please leave us a voicemail at four four 754 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,759 Speaker 1: six three seven. We truly love hearing from our listeners. 755 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear what you like, what you don't like, 756 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 1: and what we can do more on the show that 757 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: might please you. And if you can't get enough of us, 758 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: I'm at Katie Curic on Twitter and Instagram and Katie 759 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: dot correct on Snapchat. You can bind me on Facebook 760 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: as well. Brian is tweeting up a storm meanwhile over 761 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 1: at goldsmith b on Twitter, and don't forget. We so 762 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,759 Speaker 1: appreciate your ratings and reviews over at Apple Podcasts and 763 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,960 Speaker 1: subscribe as well. Please catch you later, Dear listeners, Thanks 764 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:18,399 Speaker 1: for listening. Chow