1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: M H. Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcast featuring 2 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: conversations with industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. 3 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 1: This is Shirley Halpman, Executive editor of Music, and with 4 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: me today is Lee or Cohen, YouTube's global head of 5 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: Music since seen and before that a label executive for 6 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: some thirty years. To get a sense of lew York 7 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: Oh in the person. He's the type of brash weather 8 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: New Yorker that might inspire a character called record man 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: or music biz exec in a movie. As head of 10 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: def Jam Records from the mid nineties through two thousand four, 11 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: when it was home to such hip hop heavies as 12 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: jay Z and DMX, he helped create the soundtrack that 13 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: would play an important role in propelling the genre from 14 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: niche to mainstream to everywhere. Cohen brought that talent for discovery, 15 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: development in our marketing and operations to Warner Music Group, 16 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: which he ran as chairman until when he left. His 17 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: protege and number two, Julie Greenwald, remained at Atlantic Records, 18 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: where she would co head the company with Craig Collman 19 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: and lead the label group to chief an impressively consistent 20 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: streak of successes, among them hit records by Bruno, mars Ed, 21 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 1: Sharon and Cardi B to name a few. In two 22 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: thousands sixteen, YouTube came calling for Cohen, who had in 23 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: the meantime launched the indie label three hundred, which had 24 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: made its mark by releasing me Goes, First Hit, Bad 25 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: and Bougie. Cohen accepted the top music job at the 26 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: video Giant and was tasked with, among other things, overseeing 27 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: domestic and international music partnerships in addition to artists and 28 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: label relations. YouTube in the music business have not always 29 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: been happy bedfellows, mainly due to conflicting interests as it 30 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: relates to you g C or user generated content and 31 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: its use of copyrighted works who master recordings often belonged 32 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: to the record companies, and it's publishing to other adjacently 33 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: interested parties. It would stand to reason that being a 34 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,519 Speaker 1: top destination from music YouTube in the label should be 35 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: working in concert as it were, and one of Leor 36 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: Cohen's ms is to make it so. Lee Or Cohen, 37 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: the entrepreneur who got his start as a roadie for 38 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: run DMC, sounds much more like a company man today, 39 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: though his mishmash of an Israeli American accent remains as 40 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: distinct as ever, if maybe a little less intimitting than 41 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: twenty years ago when he and I first met first 42 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: sit down interview. In this conversation, which took place over 43 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 1: Google Meat, Leor shares his views on the place of 44 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: record companies and hip hop today, including who should be 45 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: running deaf Jam, and offers his thoughts on rock and 46 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,959 Speaker 1: roll Hall of Fame contender L cool J, the recent 47 00:02:53,040 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: passing of rapper DMX, and Cardi B's wet Ass. Yeah, 48 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,679 Speaker 1: welcome back to strictly Business. Here's lee Or Cohen. Lee Or, 49 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: thanks for joining me today and from the broader news world. 50 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: Thank you for making yourself accessible to all kinds of 51 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: media over the years, whether as a keynote speaker at 52 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,679 Speaker 1: a conference or a guest on a morning show like 53 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: The Breakfast Club. I wonder, do you think you've gotten 54 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: better at public speaking over the years. Um No, I 55 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 1: think the wall that I have to climb to public 56 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: speak is incredibly tall and taxing. I'm terrified, and I 57 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: put myself in such a tail spin, and I just 58 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: feel like I just should just say no to many 59 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: of them, But I just I'm so enthusiastic when I 60 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: get asked to do this that I typically racists say yes, 61 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: and then I don't sleep from that moment on until 62 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: I finished the speech. And in a smaller group, you 63 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: can be more honest, more forthright. I know exactly what 64 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: it is when I look at people's eyes and I 65 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: could see intent. So one of the problems with public 66 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,799 Speaker 1: speaking is usually the lights are bright in my eyes, 67 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: so I can't tell if people are with me or 68 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: against me, or are understanding what I'm saying, or I'm 69 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: bringing them along. I'm so present in meetings that I 70 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: could tell. You could ask me to close my eyes 71 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: and I could tell what everybody's wearing, who's drinking, what, 72 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: who's engaged not engaged, because when I'm in those meetings, 73 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 1: very present. So when I can't read intent, and it 74 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: makes me anxious. So how has COVID been like for you? 75 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: Without in person meetings and Google meets and virtually speaking 76 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: to your staff. It's been hugely rewarding in many ways, 77 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: It's been very difficult in other ways, difficult because I 78 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 1: know there are many of my colleagues that are suffering 79 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: that have either got COVID or may have had loved 80 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: ones that had COVID may not be in a physical 81 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: place that being in quarantine is good for. I, on 82 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: the other hand, had a new child. Being able to 83 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: be with my um wife and baby every day all 84 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:59,799 Speaker 1: day has been incredible silver lining. Also, for the first 85 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: six months, my older children and I were in the 86 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: same house and it was just a fascinating experience full 87 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: of love and dialogue. There's nothing like being with people. 88 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: Or it's been sometime since you got to YouTube, I'm 89 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: curious if when you got to YouTube and now has 90 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: your vision of what your job would be changed. So No, 91 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: I actually view myself is the person responsible for music 92 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: at Google and YouTube. I don't really pay attention two 93 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: the specific remit that is in my title. I feel 94 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: fully responsible for all music on Google and YouTube, and 95 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: I act that way. I just want to give a 96 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: huge shout out to my colleagues at both YouTube and 97 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: Google who are deeply passionate about how I feel about 98 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: music at the platform, and the passion is around helping 99 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: more artists and songwriters make a living in music, and 100 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: I have so many partners that believe in that mission. 101 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: When I first joined YouTube and Google, I thought, man 102 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: if I hear one sideways comment about, oh, your industry 103 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: got what it deserved because they didn't change, they didn't develop, 104 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: I would have left the company immediately. On the contrary, 105 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: many of the engineers, many of the people that are 106 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: working in YouTube and Google around music are actually musicians 107 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: in their own right, deeply passionate about building a healthy 108 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: ecosystem that is fair and helpful. In fact, I was 109 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: so excited because I didn't know until I actually had 110 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: the experience of getting to know my coworkers and colleagues 111 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: about how they feel about music and where music is 112 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: and where what the potential of music is. And so 113 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to say that I have made real, tremendous 114 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: relationships that I think would carry on even post me 115 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: working at the Google and YouTube. These are long relationships 116 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: that I cherish. I live in Los Angeles, and there 117 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: seems to have been for a long time a divide 118 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: between North and South California. Tech was in the north 119 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,199 Speaker 1: that was where the engineering and the programming was, and 120 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: in the South you had all the creatives and the 121 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: two didn't always meet or gel. So that's really fascinating 122 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: to me to hear you say that. Is that because 123 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: you've helped build this staff. I wonder I wouldn't say no. 124 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 1: I think what UM, what really happened. I was classically 125 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 1: supposed to shuttle between the industry and the engineers, and 126 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: I changed that remit slightly that I didn't want to 127 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: shuttle between the two, but actually put the two together. 128 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: And once they actually met, they realized that they have 129 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: much more in common than what separates them. And certainly 130 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 1: the creative UM industry does not want to deal with 131 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: scale data all the engineering stuff on a global basis, 132 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: and the UH engineers have no interest in chasing artists 133 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: in the middle of the night to re record a 134 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,439 Speaker 1: chorus or show up to a gig or something like that. 135 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:30,239 Speaker 1: So they actually have all the elements of a healthy partnership. 136 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: And once they got an opportunity to meet one another, 137 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: a lot of beautiful music started happening and relationships started building. 138 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: And I think what we're now in the new era 139 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: of playing offense together as opposed to defense and thinking 140 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: that we're at odds. One of the genres that has 141 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: really thrived on YouTube is hip hop. It's a global phenomenon. 142 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: It's the number one music art form globally. If you 143 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: go to Vietnam, the Vietnam music scene is dominated by 144 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: rap music. If you go to Indonesia, the same thing 145 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: happening you go to any place around the world. Russia 146 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 1: realized rap music is dominating the music scene. And what 147 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: happened is I had roommates in the Lower East Side 148 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: in but I thought that rapp had every reason to 149 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 1: be global. So I opened up the JAM offices in London, 150 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: Germany and Japan, and I almost tanked the company because 151 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: none of those offices actually yielded much. And the problem 152 00:11:54,280 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: back in is that all the foreign rappers fell out 153 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: that they were stealing something from New York, so they 154 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: paid too much homage to New York. They dressed and 155 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: wrapped like them, and didn't make it their own. And 156 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: it was only in the early nineties that rappers around 157 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: the world didn't give a rats ass about New York 158 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: or America rap, and suddenly they made it their own 159 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: with no compromise. And the explosion of rap music has happened. 160 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: And it's beautiful to see, and there's a lot of 161 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: incredible young entrepreneurs that are dedicated to this music. Yeah, 162 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: so it's wonderful. And why do you think it thrives 163 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: on YouTube. Specifically, YouTube's got over two billion consumers. It's 164 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: a global platform. Music plays a big part in the platform, 165 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: and so if rap music is big in Indonesia, it's 166 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: big on YouTube because in many countries, YouTube is the 167 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: most loved brand of that country. Um, YouTube is uh 168 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: phenomenon that's global and and large. So because rap has 169 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: an outsize weight in the country and in music in general, 170 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: it would of course be represented that way because of 171 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: the law of large numbers. When you say large numbers, 172 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: I mean you're saying that someone will want to hear 173 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: a song and the instinct will be to pull it 174 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 1: up on YouTube. That's the go to. Particularly when I 175 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:46,439 Speaker 1: think Chuck said most beautiful is we used to be 176 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: in an audio business. With the invention of MTV, it 177 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 1: was audio video business, and now with YouTube it's a 178 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: visual audio business. So I think the flinch that you're 179 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: talking about is around video, and we are the home 180 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: to video, the destination for videos. So yes, they go 181 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: to YouTube. I'm curious, like, when's the last time you 182 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: went down a YouTube rabbit hole? Oh? I love that 183 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: you said that, because when I tell you the two 184 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: rabbit holes. So I married a Chinese woman from Manchuria. 185 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: My wife is I would say a fashionista, beautiful and glamorous, 186 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: and we run I would say a communist household. And 187 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: what I mean by that is we divide things up exclusively, 188 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: so I don't dabble into fashion. She gives me what 189 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: I wear and are what our daughter wears. But I'm 190 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: the minister of the beat. And so my daughter and 191 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: I dance every day because I want her to feel 192 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: the beat. So the rab hole that I started with 193 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: her and I wanted her to understand music. So we 194 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: are deeply in a rabbit hole of Louis Armstrong and 195 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: Billie Holiday. It is so glorious. Particularly they did a 196 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: lot of duets together, as you know. It's just been incredible. 197 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: So I'm deep diving into Billie Holiday and Louis Armstrong. 198 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: Now on the other side, I'm a nut for the 199 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: Cabin and the Marlon Brando. The Cabin interview when he 200 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: refused to go to the Academy Awards and sent the 201 00:15:55,360 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: young Indian woman to accept his award is startling. The 202 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: interview of the Cabot with Muhammad Ali and Frasier, it's startling. 203 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: So now here is the problem surely. I'm so enthusiastic 204 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: about the Deck Cabins episodes on YouTube that I've told 205 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: all my colleagues in many meetings about this series. I 206 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: have so many blanks stare as. Many of them don't 207 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: know who the cab it is. And that's when I 208 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: realized time does not stand still. Can you imagine the 209 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: best that ever did it? They don't even know. At 210 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: the same time, when a record like Cardi B and 211 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: Megan D. Stallion's Wet Ass comes out, I looked to 212 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: that generation for guidance and their perspective on how this 213 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: song represents a female empowerment anthem. What's your view? How 214 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: do you explain what when the boundaries get pushed and 215 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: dialogue happens and discussions. You know, I grew up and 216 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: my parents had pot luck dinners and poetry readings and 217 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 1: book clubs, and there were groups of people in the 218 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: living room having long discussions. And I think it's bravo 219 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: to them to create something that we all talked about 220 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: even now in this podcast. So I commentary. Other than that, 221 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: I just love people talking about it. I love my 222 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: daughter talking about it. I have nineteen year old daughter. 223 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: I just let's have more conversations, because here's the thing. 224 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: We're living in an insanely polarized world right now, and 225 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: the polarized world doesn't realize that if you actually had 226 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: some conversations, there is certainly more more that brings us 227 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: and unites us than puts us at odds. And I 228 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: do believe it all starts with conversation. Being Jewish, the 229 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: remedy for everything in das m is education is learning 230 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 1: about something, and so this is in that type of category. 231 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: Since the arrival of YouTube in two thousand five, video 232 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: as entertainment has been as short and d i y 233 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: as six seconds and as long as a multi episode 234 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: fully produced series like Cobra Kai. Now, when we have 235 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 1: a Zack Snyder cut of Justice League that clocks in 236 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: at four hours, it's hard to know what audiences are 237 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 1: looking for. Where do you land on length? It's our 238 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: destiny all video, and part of that is native mobile. 239 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: So are the power of our cell phone is getting 240 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: stronger and stronger. On the screens are getting better and better, 241 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 1: and the ability to make short form content from your 242 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 1: phone and have it viewed and seen by millions, if 243 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: not billions of people. It's just a gift there's room 244 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: for everything. There's room for long form um, deep and immersive, 245 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: and there's also a room for short forum where you're 246 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: at the line to check in at the airport and 247 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: you look at your phone and you're swiping and enjoying 248 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: short form entertainment. You need to take a quick break. 249 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: But we'll be back with more from Lee or Cohen. 250 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: And we're back with New York Cohen. What seemed like 251 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: coming into a little less obvious, which is live streaming. 252 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: We we'd all be so much more depressed than we 253 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: are if we didn't have just so many options of 254 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: things to watch, from the bedroom concert to full scale productions, 255 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: things that are free, things that cost money. What do 256 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: you see as the future of live streaming now that 257 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: we're coming out of the pandemic. Certainly, like you said, 258 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,199 Speaker 1: it was a godsend for all of us during the pandemic, 259 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 1: and like many beautiful things it was the pandemic, live 260 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: stream happens to be one of the silver linings. But 261 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:37,919 Speaker 1: I would say that there are tertiary markets that rarely 262 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 1: get a concert. Let's say a band. You know, they 263 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: spend enormous amounts of money to rehearse and create this 264 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 1: production that will go on the road for the next 265 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: three months. I could see a great portion of that 266 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 1: going to their most loved fans, not the full reveal 267 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: of the show, but a partial reveal that will help 268 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 1: augment the cost of that production of the setup. There's 269 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:12,120 Speaker 1: fans all over the world that, oftentimes, because of their location, 270 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: don't get the ability to see a concert. So I 271 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: see this digital live streaming as being another instrument in 272 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: the artist's repertoire to engage with their fans. The pandemic 273 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: has also introduced a lot of homebound Americans to Israeli 274 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 1: TV shows. Did you binge any during Lockdown? Man? I am. 275 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: I don't watch television, but when Fowder comes out for 276 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: I'm mesmerized. That's how I feel about any show starring 277 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,199 Speaker 1: Shira has you Know? In music, we're also seeing several 278 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: breakout talents from Israel, including Johnny Goldstein, who's helped The 279 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: Black Eyed Peas notch for Latin hits in the last 280 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 1: eighteen months, and Omare Fetti, who Variety recently called the 281 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: secret weapon behind such hits. His mood by k Golden 282 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: and Little No Sex is Montero call me by your Name? 283 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 1: Isn't it interesting how so many producers are blowing up 284 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 1: from Israel right now. I'm not surprised. Listen. The reason 285 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: why Israel is so dope on host of reasons. They 286 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: call it startup nation, lots of creativity coming from it 287 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: is because of mandatory public service. How is that connected? 288 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: Because when you are in that incubation period in public 289 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: service and allows you to start formulating your more serious 290 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 1: to me, you're amongst your age group and you're plotting 291 00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: and scheming together while you're serving, while you're doing something 292 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 1: bigger than yourself as an individual, and that's ingrained at 293 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: a very early age. So it stays with you. It 294 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 1: stays with you. But listen, just so you're clear, you're 295 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: you could be assigned to all different units, and those 296 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: are some of the things that you could carry forward 297 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: into your education and your career, whether it's engineering, whether 298 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 1: it's the creative arts. That's all available in the public service. 299 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 1: Public service and Israel doesn't mean that you're just fighting. 300 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: It means that you're doing something um for your country 301 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: in a communal way with people um your age. If 302 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: you're interested in the creative arts, you could go to 303 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 1: do things that will help you in the future. Does 304 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: living in New York play into that? Because you grew 305 00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: up in Los Angeles? So New York. Wow, I'm a 306 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: New Yorker period. I like visiting Los Angeles, but it's 307 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 1: a suburban lifestyle that lacks the cosmopolitan part of the 308 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: thing that gets me excited. I love that New Yorkers 309 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: live amongst one another. There are no Stepford Wives communities 310 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: in New York and so whether cosmopolitan living, diversity, melting pot, 311 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: we're all together in New York. I don't mind the weather. 312 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: I am actually love the weather. I love the seasons. 313 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 1: It is uh constant reminder to me about time, and 314 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: time is very important to me. Another die hard New 315 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: Yorker is Julie green in Wald, who you hired at 316 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: def Jam and brought to Warner Music, where she's truly 317 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 1: blossomed in the most badass way. As chairman and CEO 318 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: of Atlantic, she is, without a doubt, the most talented 319 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 1: music executive in the business. So what's it like going 320 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: into like a meeting with her where you're representing YouTube 321 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,199 Speaker 1: and she's representing Atlantic. I better have my ship together. 322 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: There's no freestyling with Julie. She is an incredible mother 323 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: and community person. She's all about being lean and doing 324 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,120 Speaker 1: what she needs to do for our artists. And if 325 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: myself and our team, if we're not buttoned up, it's problematic. 326 00:25:55,000 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: Was Joe Budden your era of def jam? Yeah? Did you? Button? 327 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: Podcast has become such a success for him, It's nearing 328 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 1: one million subscribers just on YouTube. What do you make 329 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: of his career transition? Everybody who is thoughtful and determined 330 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: enough not to pull over and circcumb to gravity, and 331 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: Joe Button is an incredible interviewer, an incredible student and 332 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:34,199 Speaker 1: historian of the game and curious and I'm not surprised. 333 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: Bravo to him. Yeah, l cool, Jay, you're campaigning, as 334 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,239 Speaker 1: it were, for him to be inducted into the Rock 335 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: and Roll Hall of Fame. He's been eligible since two 336 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: thousand and ten and been down this road six times. 337 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: Why now? Why now? Is because, with great respect to 338 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Board and its members, 339 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: John Sykes, who is now overseeing the Rock and Roll 340 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, has invited change and wants to make 341 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: the organization better and stronger. I felt like, instead of 342 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 1: sitting in my hands, was important to advocate for someone 343 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:27,439 Speaker 1: who because he's done it with such ease and grace 344 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: without massive controversy, his artistry is being overlooked. We're talking 345 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: about Jack the Ripper, Okay. We're talking about a guy 346 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: who when he left the stage, nobody wanted to perform 347 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: after him. This is the guy who did rock the Bells. Okay. 348 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 1: This is a guy that you know, artists like Snoop 349 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: or Ice Cube or Dr Dre or it goes on 350 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: and on, believe should be indoctrinated into the rock and 351 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 1: roll Hall of Fame. I've been raised by my parents 352 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,479 Speaker 1: with saying that everything that you do matters, Like they 353 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: believe that individuals have the strength and the courage to 354 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: make change and to create change. And I remember seeing 355 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: lots of trash on the highway and my parents said, I, 356 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,239 Speaker 1: you threw a cigarette, but out you could say, oh, 357 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: it's just one more, it's this little cigarette. But can't 358 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: the action can't actually produce change. But on the contrary, 359 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: they told me that you could start a revolution by 360 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: not doing it. And I've always felt like I have 361 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: the ability to influence and make change and I wanted 362 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: to do it on behalf of ll L. And I 363 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: think he deserves it, and I just hope that other 364 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: people feel the same way, and if they don't, it's 365 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: much respect. But they should do actually the history. They 366 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: should do the effort if they're part of the voting 367 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: committee to learn, and you would see that he has 368 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: a significant impact. Another incredibly influential artist whose career you 369 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: helped steer was the rapper DMX. He died on April nine, 370 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: which was less than a week ago as of this taping, 371 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: and was only fifty years old. Def Jam put out 372 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: his biggest studio albums, the First Three Souls, over thirteen 373 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: million copies, which is an astonishing amount, and he'd also 374 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: shown a lot of promise as an actor, appearing in 375 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: several films, including Belly and Romeo Must Die. Can you 376 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: share some thoughts of having worked with him? The privilege 377 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: of having worked with him, the privilege age of knowing 378 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: him was that when people talk about the real rock 379 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: and roll, real, the live wire, the real, there was 380 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: no blue print two d MX. I was contemplating giving 381 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: up and retiring because at that period of time, puff 382 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: Daddy and the Bad Boy expansion was profound huge. It 383 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: was very big, and Puffies architecture was around technicolor, about 384 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: the possibilities, the shiny things. It was aspirational. Def Jam 385 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: was designed with black and white and shades of gray. 386 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: So here I am following and working in the architecture 387 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: of death Jam and being there was no oxygen for 388 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: that type of art. And I told my crew earlier 389 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: that year is that I don't know how I can 390 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: contribute in a world of technicolor and so um. I 391 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: had already started preparing leaving the industry when I was 392 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: asked to come to Yonkers to meet the m X. 393 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: And I got there at two in the morning or 394 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: god he invited me and he hadn't shown up, and 395 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: so the rough riders wanted to pawn a bunch of 396 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: different artists on me. And at three thirty X came in. 397 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: He had his jaw wire shut, and I'd like to 398 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: say that if my mother was there, she would have said, 399 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 1: that's obviously the guy we need to sign. As he 400 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: was rapping, you could hear the wires popping in his jaw, 401 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: and there was just something about him. I signed him, 402 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: and I loved having quick photo shoots. I wanted to 403 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: see if the camera could witness the genius and oh 404 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: my god, surely there was a photo of Polaroid that 405 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: came back to me that I put in my breast 406 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: pocket four over six months. I carried it in my 407 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: breast pocket for six months, and I whipped it out 408 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: every time I needed to remind myself that yes, there 409 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: is room for me still in this industry. And the 410 00:32:52,560 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: moment Puffy had the locks do this happy Dappy any ship, 411 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: That's when I knew. Because I was I had my polaroid, 412 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: That's when I knew there was room for black and 413 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: white and shades of grape. Now. DMX was an extremely 414 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: troubled person, and I would always like to say that 415 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: Earl Simmons was a lovely and thoughtful and caring, articulate person. 416 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: And I tried very hard for Earl Simmons to have 417 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: a place and have oxygen because I knew DMX was 418 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: a gremblin and if DMX had his way, he would 419 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 1: drive like he did into a wall. And so the 420 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: more I could encourage Earl Simmons to live and to 421 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: breathe and to dominate, I knew that there would be 422 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 1: much more rational thinking, especially since he had children. He 423 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 1: was a loving and caring person. So I used to 424 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: bring him to Lake George because he loved fishing with 425 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:21,359 Speaker 1: his son, and he would spend days with his son 426 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:26,840 Speaker 1: fishing in Lake George. And I was hoping because of that, 427 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: he would realize that Earl Simmons is worthy of time 428 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: life experiences and that DMX could be a part of it, 429 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: but a very small part. And the problem is DMX 430 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:56,240 Speaker 1: was such an important person for those that love black 431 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: and white and shades of gray. Those people, um um 432 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: feel like everything was Mercedes and Versace suits, that working 433 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 1: class Kim's the hardship of being black in America. He 434 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: was their hope and so when you saw him, he 435 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:22,320 Speaker 1: was X to everybody. So X got a lot of oxygen. 436 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, like I said, X as a gremblin that 437 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 1: is looking for a wall to run into and to 438 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: be a martyr, and that's what ultimately happened. I wanted 439 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 1: to bring up our two thousand one interview because it 440 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 1: is the twentieth anniversary of that interview this year, Um 441 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: Lee Or you were one of the first people in 442 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 1: the industry that I'd sat with, which you know, really 443 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: opened my mind to a whole other world of business writings. 444 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: So thank you for that and happy anniversary. You said 445 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: in that interview a few things you said. I always 446 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,720 Speaker 1: thought the power in the music business was being close 447 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 1: to the act. I didn't know it was being the 448 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: record company. That would probably be different today. Yes, um, 449 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be. The record companies have to 450 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: ask themselves what is their value proposition in this new world? 451 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 1: Are they going to be deeply committed to artists, development, 452 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: deeply committed to the struggles of what it means to 453 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 1: be an artist. Do they have an intimate and personal 454 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: relationship with the artists. Are they are valued member of 455 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 1: the team. I think you're referring to the shift in 456 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:46,320 Speaker 1: the industry, but I think the same thing holds today 457 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,360 Speaker 1: what held yesterday. It all depends on the ethos of 458 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 1: the particular record company. I mean, if we were speaking 459 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:55,919 Speaker 1: in two thousand one, that would have been the height 460 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,720 Speaker 1: of you know, in sync, you know, no strings attached 461 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: to point six million first week like you know that. 462 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,400 Speaker 1: That was two thousand one, So it was a very 463 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 1: different time. The power, the power shift, certainly revenue wise, 464 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: was on the side of the record company. It is 465 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 1: now too, even with so many artists doing you know, 466 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 1: like sharing masters or licensing deals or j VS. When 467 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: I first started three the glass going into the lobby 468 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,359 Speaker 1: was a quote of a Bob Dylan song. If you're 469 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,760 Speaker 1: not busy being born, you're busy dying. And so except 470 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 1: that things are in flux and be okay with it, 471 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,479 Speaker 1: get nervous when things aren't changing. That's typically when you're 472 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 1: in the titanic mode. Any thoughts on who should run 473 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: deak Jim someone bold, someone who has is willing to 474 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 1: lay it out completely on the line and prepared to 475 00:37:55,880 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: take a lot of risks, and that person needs to 476 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 1: be trusted by the senior leadership of Universal to take 477 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 1: as many risks as possible. There needs to be a 478 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: real metamorphosis for def JAM to be successful. A lot 479 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: of people think that they're risk takers, and when they 480 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 1: got the rock, their knees start shaking. When the buzzer 481 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 1: is about the buzz they get nervous. And you know, 482 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,320 Speaker 1: if you take a look at Jordan's shooting at the buzzer, 483 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,279 Speaker 1: he's in his most zombie state. The coach just in 484 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,359 Speaker 1: the time out doesn't tell Jordan's you've got to make 485 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,359 Speaker 1: the shot or two points down, you know what, he says, 486 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,239 Speaker 1: take that shot and you're the best that ever did it, 487 00:38:52,600 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 1: I believe. Tune in next week for another episode of 488 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 1: Strictly Business m