Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex bar Blazar from Lazarre. Hello, everybody nailed it,
Speaker 1: joined us always by our bark.
Speaker 2: Here is Evan Lazar and Alex bars. But if they
Speaker 2: want a rookie kicker to meet, Ben sALS, here's the guy.
Speaker 1: Ben Salt. There's your kicker. I am definitely in a
Speaker 1: much different spot in my research than you, clearly, so
Speaker 1: I'm still in the top one hundred and hang on
Speaker 1: real quick because I have his number six of seven
Speaker 1: from fifty plus last year, twenty one of twenty four total. Okay,
Speaker 1: there's your kicker minute, Ben sALS. I feel like we
Speaker 1: allow for the kicker minute, like the last ten minutes
Speaker 1: of the show. When somebody asks about kickers, I'm like,
Speaker 1: all right, this is your time to show give him.
Speaker 2: I give my ticket this point.
Speaker 1: Better call Salts, better better calls sauls Uh. The Patriots
Speaker 1: do need a kicker. You keep reminding me of that
Speaker 1: every time I do any off season preview write ups
Speaker 1: or anything.
Speaker 2: Agent. They do have Parker Romo, but Joways lies a
Speaker 2: free agent.
Speaker 1: We don't trust Parker Romo.
Speaker 2: Well, he just doesn't have a lot of experience, at
Speaker 2: least somebody to bring in for like they had last year.
Speaker 2: Somebody bring in for competition.
Speaker 1: All right, all right, sure, well, kickers, I believe specialists
Speaker 1: are Wednesday night next week at the combine. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: first group on the on field workouts, and then Thursdays
Speaker 1: when the position players start, the non specialist start.
Speaker 2: So no, the defensive line and linebackers are with the
Speaker 2: kickers on Wednesday. I think, No, we're on Thursday.
Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. I think you're specialist are
Speaker 1: on Wednesday night. Yeah, all right, I think something different
Speaker 1: this week this year. Anyways, semantics, the Combines next week
Speaker 1: my favorite week of the NFL calendar. And you are going, sir,
Speaker 1: is your first combine? Right, Yes, you'll you'll see what
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. The biggest reason why I love the Combine.
Speaker 1: It's just enough football that you get to do the
Speaker 1: football thing. Yeah, but you also just get to have
Speaker 1: a blast in Indie for the week, which is an
Speaker 1: underrated city, especially for an event like this. So overall
Speaker 1: my favorite week of the year. You have just enough
Speaker 1: football you can scratch that itch, but you also have
Speaker 1: you know, the eating's good. You go to Saint Elmo's,
Speaker 1: you go to Prime forty seven. The after hours is
Speaker 1: good too at you know the bars, so that it's
Speaker 1: my favorite week of the year. I'm glad you're coming
Speaker 1: because you finally get to experience why I hype it
Speaker 1: up so much every single time, so hopefully it lives
Speaker 1: up to it. But today we're gonna talk a little
Speaker 1: bit of combine stuff, little preview episode here, some of
Speaker 1: the big storylines from a Patriots perspective, obviously going into
Speaker 1: the combine next week. We also have some free agency news,
Speaker 1: you know, tag news things like that that we can
Speaker 1: discuss here at the top of the show. And then
Speaker 1: we'll take your calls in your emails. So I'll give
Speaker 1: out the phone number here in a little bit because
Speaker 1: I think we'll probably roll here for a few minutes
Speaker 1: on the combine, but call us at eight five to
Speaker 1: five Pass five hundred email address TBX hotline, and then
Speaker 1: the emails podcast at Patriots dot com and hey Patriots fans,
Speaker 1: you want to see Toyota's best offers, including those not
Speaker 1: seen on TV. Go to buy Toyota dot Com is
Speaker 1: Toyota's official website for deals from the official vehicle The
Speaker 1: New England Patriots, Toyota, Let's go places and easy to drink,
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Speaker 1: the New England Patriots. All right, Alex, where do you
Speaker 1: want to start combine franchise tags?
Speaker 2: I guess let's starts franchise tag stup because we can
Speaker 2: do that pretty quickly.
Speaker 1: Okay, so franchise tags latest. The franchise tag window is
Speaker 1: now officially open. I believe it's like March fourth or
Speaker 1: March second, where it closes, like right before the start
Speaker 1: of the league year. The big news is that it
Speaker 1: does sound like t Higgins is expected to get the
Speaker 1: franchise tag from the Cincinnati Bengals, and it seems like
Speaker 1: this is a placeholder for them to be signing him
Speaker 1: to a long term contract. Is where this seems to
Speaker 1: be headed. And I think ultimately, even if it's him
Speaker 1: playing the other another year or a holdout or something
Speaker 1: like that on the tag, or him signing a long
Speaker 1: term extension in Cincinnati, it doesn't sound like he's getting
Speaker 1: out of Cincinnati this year, and he's certainly not going
Speaker 1: to be an unrestricted free agent, so it takes him
Speaker 1: off the board for the Patriots. Which is a bummer. Obviously,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of different domino effects here, where not
Speaker 1: only are they not going to be able to make
Speaker 1: a run at T. Higgins, but also now the other
Speaker 1: receivers on the board, Cooper Cup in the trade, Chris Godwin,
Speaker 1: Stefan Diggs, Amari Cooper, like now those guys become the
Speaker 1: top of the board in the free agent market. So
Speaker 1: where do you stand with this T Higgins thing? I
Speaker 1: guess I'm a little bit bumped out by it. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, I also thought, even though they
Speaker 1: could throw a bunch of money at him, the odds
Speaker 1: of them actually landing to Higgins on the open market
Speaker 1: I still thought were lower percentage wise, you know, a
Speaker 1: ten to fifteen percent. So I'm not overly moved by it,
Speaker 1: I guess because of that.
Speaker 2: I just never expected him to become available, like however
Speaker 2: it happened. I never was really expecting them to have
Speaker 2: a chance to do that. Now, you know, it's all
Speaker 2: well and good to sit here in mid February and
Speaker 2: say we want to sign it. If you're the Bengals
Speaker 2: and say we want to Scigniicans to an extension. Once
Speaker 2: you actually start putting numbers on paper, maybe it gets
Speaker 2: a little more difficult. And if you're the Patriots, I
Speaker 2: think you still check in you see how those negotiations
Speaker 2: are going right, and maybe he can still be had
Speaker 2: via trade, but it's via trade. It's different. Now you're
Speaker 2: getting up assets, it's not just money. But to me,
Speaker 2: like that those names you mentioned, I think Chris Godwin
Speaker 2: we talked about that. I think we talked about this
Speaker 2: last week, Like Chris Godwin can give you some of
Speaker 2: that coverage dictating type stuff. If he's healthy, he obviously
Speaker 2: kind of has an extensive injury history at that point.
Speaker 2: After him, these are guys with significant injuries or are
Speaker 2: up there in years or both. And I just don't
Speaker 2: know that that receiver, that kind of apex receiver that
Speaker 2: they've been chasing for the last few years, is going
Speaker 2: to be available to them on the veteran market this offseason.
Speaker 2: I also don't know if that guy's in the draft.
Speaker 2: Maybe you believe that's Tech McMillan, And if you do,
Speaker 2: then I think there is now a stronger case for
Speaker 2: him to be the pick at four. But if it's
Speaker 2: not Tech McMillan, Travis Hunter, we both think is not
Speaker 2: going to be there at force. Even if you think
Speaker 2: he's that guy as a receiver, it might be irrelevant. Yeah,
Speaker 2: unless they go to the trade market, getting that guy
Speaker 2: may not be an option. So now you go in
Speaker 2: one of two ways. Do you really aggressively hammer the
Speaker 2: trade market and let teams know you might be willing
Speaker 2: to get a little dumb in order to land. You
Speaker 2: bring us back to DK Metcalf. Here we go again
Speaker 2: with him in terms of the money and what you're
Speaker 2: willing to give up or look, and I know this
Speaker 2: probably isn't what people want to hear, but it's an
Speaker 2: option to build. They have the assets to be better
Speaker 2: next year, but in order to be like really contending,
Speaker 2: like finish you know, ten eleven, twelve wins, battling for
Speaker 2: the division, winning playoff games. This roster's two years away.
Speaker 2: It's gonna take two offseasons, not just this one. You
Speaker 2: can kind of look at it and say, it's a
Speaker 2: two year process. We don't want to overextend for wide
Speaker 2: receiver that's not gonna be worth it. We're giving up
Speaker 2: whether it's Chris Godwin, Teed McMillan, whoever. If you don't
Speaker 2: truly believe that guy's the answer, and you say, we
Speaker 2: have needed to tackle, we have needs on the edge,
Speaker 2: we needs in the secondary, might need a tight end,
Speaker 2: might need a running back guard, on and on and on.
Speaker 2: We're just gonna hammer those And that doesn't mean you
Speaker 2: do nothing at wide receiver. Maybe you ad a guy
Speaker 2: like a Christian Kirk who could end up being a
Speaker 2: cap casual to you is a nice complimentary piece, but
Speaker 2: is a complimentary piece. Maybe you get one of these
Speaker 2: guys on Day two of the draft who is a
Speaker 2: complimentary piece, but you get that if you focus horror
Speaker 2: on the other options, you spend your premium assets there.
Speaker 2: And look, I know nobody wants to kick the can
Speaker 2: down the road to wide receiver for another year, but ideally,
Speaker 2: if you're not putting premium assets into that position. You
Speaker 2: got in your left tackle, you got in a pass
Speaker 2: rusher maybe two. You added some depth in the secondary,
Speaker 2: maybe you found a playmaker at tight end, like you
Speaker 2: have all these other ways you can go, and now
Speaker 2: next year it's wide receiver, wide receiver, wide receiver, because
Speaker 2: you took care of just about everything else you needed
Speaker 2: to take care of. Again, I know that might not
Speaker 2: be a popular take, and I'm not saying that's the
Speaker 2: way they're gonna go. But if T Higgins is off
Speaker 2: the board, you look at who's left, and if they
Speaker 2: can't swing a big trade, I think that has to
Speaker 2: be an option on the table.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I guess I'm a little bit old school
Speaker 1: when it comes to a roster building, especially with the
Speaker 1: wide receiver position. I always view wide receiver as the
Speaker 1: finishing piece. I think that that's the last piece that
Speaker 1: you drop into the puzzle. And once you have the
Speaker 1: foundation of offensive line, quarterback play, now you can go
Speaker 1: ahead and take the wide receiver. You know, make that
Speaker 1: Aj Brown trade, make that Stefan Diggs trade.
Speaker 2: Or just if you're picking in the top ten r
Speaker 2: you know, next year and we're your way. So who knows. Yeah,
Speaker 2: next year projects to be a better year for receivers
Speaker 2: in the draft. You never know who's gonna be available
Speaker 2: on the veteran market, Like next year there should be.
Speaker 2: It's too early to do that, you know, where would
Speaker 2: Tech McMillan rank the next year's class because we don't
Speaker 2: know who's gonna come out and blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: But like I'm gonna guess Tech McMillan would not be
Speaker 2: just looking at the list early. I don't think Tech
Speaker 2: McMillan's wide receiver won in next year's class. He might
Speaker 2: not even be wide receiver too.
Speaker 1: So here's the thing, though, when it comes to receivers,
Speaker 1: and this has been an old We've hammered this on
Speaker 1: this show and our past shows and all, yeah, plenty,
Speaker 1: the bottom line with the receiver position in this league,
Speaker 1: T Higgins caliber and above receivers do not hit unrestricted
Speaker 1: free agents.
Speaker 2: I think Calvin Ridley's probably as good as you're gonna get.
Speaker 1: So now that go, and Calvin Ridley's older, and you
Speaker 1: know that that was a big part of it with him. So,
Speaker 1: like you look at a lot of these different avenues
Speaker 1: to add receivers, really you can cross unrestricted free agency off.
Speaker 1: If you're looking for that true number one guy. That's
Speaker 1: not happening. It's never going to happen. Even if T.
Speaker 1: Higgins moves into trade. Now on the franchise tag, teams
Speaker 1: are going to maintain team control on an asset of
Speaker 1: that magnitude. They are not going to allow T. Higgins
Speaker 1: to walk in free agency for nothing. And I know
Speaker 1: there's compics and all that, but theoretically nothing, it's just
Speaker 1: not gonna happen. So you either have to trade for
Speaker 1: it or you have to draft it. And if you're
Speaker 1: trading for it, you're really giving up draft capital in
Speaker 1: the trade to get the players, So you're kind of
Speaker 1: drafting it, right, Like in a way.
Speaker 2: Now, maybe you're giving up less than it would take
Speaker 2: to get that caliber of player. Like I've said in
Speaker 2: this world, push back on that. Right, if you can trade,
Speaker 2: go back to the brand Nayuk trade last year, apply
Speaker 2: it to DK Metcalf because I think they're comparable. So
Speaker 2: that would be thirty eight one or four. I don't
Speaker 2: know if the Seahawks want Kendrick Bourne because I was
Speaker 2: in anik Staire. So we'll throw in a future fourth, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: thirty eight and one O four. Thirty eight's the premium
Speaker 2: masset there. Are you drafting a receiver better than DK
Speaker 2: Metcalf at thirty eight? No, you should think about that.
Speaker 1: No, but it's not But it's not apples to apples.
Speaker 2: It's not apples tabbles. You have to pay him, and
Speaker 2: he's older and all that. I get it, but like
Speaker 2: I want to like not anti using draft capital that way.
Speaker 2: I just think it has to be sure worth it.
Speaker 1: So my point being is that really the best way
Speaker 1: to attack this receiver thing is to draft and develop
Speaker 1: your own receivers like that, that's what the best teams do, right,
Speaker 1: And to your point, that might not be a move
Speaker 1: that the Patriots can really make this offseason, Like, I
Speaker 1: don't think that the best use of the fourth overall pick.
Speaker 1: And this is something that's going that's starting to bug
Speaker 1: me about this whole discourse with the draft. I think
Speaker 1: it's important to say with all these conversations, and I'm
Speaker 1: not the only one that said this, So if you
Speaker 1: don't want to take my word for it, you know
Speaker 1: I've heard Daniel Jeremiah, Dan Brugler, mel Kiper, like all
Speaker 1: the big big j draft people say this as well.
Speaker 1: This is not one of those classes where there's a
Speaker 1: huge drop off from pick like four to pick twelve
Speaker 1: ish right twelve early teens around there. Okay, So every
Speaker 1: single player from that from let's call it Mason Graham
Speaker 1: and Will Campbell yeh, to like Mikel Williams and those
Speaker 1: guys that are probably gonna go early teens, I would say,
Speaker 1: are sort of in one big cluster together. So when
Speaker 1: we get to the combine and we get to this
Speaker 1: part of the of the calendar, this is where all
Speaker 1: those tie breakers are gonna be determined. Right where they're
Speaker 1: gonna be measurables issues, medical issues, character red flags. Right like,
Speaker 1: all those types of things start to come out now,
Speaker 1: which is what helps you settle a lot of these debates.
Speaker 1: You know, is will Campbell have the length to be
Speaker 1: a tackle? Is Ted McMillan gonna go. I don't know
Speaker 1: if he's gonna run, But if he runs and he
Speaker 1: puts down a four to four when you thought he
Speaker 1: was like a mid four to fives guy, well now
Speaker 1: you have to go back and watch the tape and
Speaker 1: reevaluate his play speed. So like, all of these things
Speaker 1: are what's going to separate a lot of these guys
Speaker 1: right now. So the point I'm getting at is that
Speaker 1: as of right now, I don't think the best use
Speaker 1: of the fourth overall pick is Ted McMillan this year,
Speaker 1: because I think you need too much in the trenches
Speaker 1: to go that direction. I think that's Bill Wallash. This
Speaker 1: is his old philosophy. The wide receiver is the last
Speaker 1: piece that you add to the roster, and I subscribe
Speaker 1: to that. So maybe wide receiver is better off next year.
Speaker 1: Maybe this year it's Darius Slayton, just to get like
Speaker 1: a veteran in the room that's got some production in
Speaker 1: the league. And it's another Day two draft pick, and
Speaker 1: you take another dart throw at somebody on Day two.
Speaker 1: I just published my tiers for the wide receiver position
Speaker 1: yesterday or the day before, and I really do like
Speaker 1: that Day two tier. Like, I think there's a decent
Speaker 1: amount of talent there, like the Iowa State kids, Jalen Royals,
Speaker 1: alec A Omanner from Stanford, Like, I think there's a
Speaker 1: decent amount of talent in that group that there could
Speaker 1: be a Lad McConkey, there could be a Terry McLaurin.
Speaker 1: There could be a Deebo Samuel, like, there could be
Speaker 1: that guy in this class out of that group. Now
Speaker 1: you have to evaluate, You have to properly scout it.
Speaker 1: You have to pick the right guy.
Speaker 2: They have to develop the player on top of that.
Speaker 1: All that's all fair. But if I'm the Patriots in
Speaker 1: this particular draft, in this particular offseason, I'm not closing
Speaker 1: doors on making some home run trade for DK Metcalf
Speaker 1: or whatever. The case may be, but I would look
Speaker 1: at it that way. For this year, I would stress
Speaker 1: the trenches like we all want them to do for
Speaker 1: the most part, and I would add receivers. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying don't add receivers, and I'd add receivers with upside.
Speaker 1: But I would expect to maybe have that finishing piece
Speaker 1: that Stefan Diggs, that Aj Brown that are chasing the
Speaker 1: draft level prospect next year or maybe down the road
Speaker 1: in general. So t Higgins off the board. It sounds
Speaker 1: like Chris Godwin that his deadline for his deal to
Speaker 1: void got pushed right before the start of the league year,
Speaker 1: So that usually is an indication that the team is
Speaker 1: ongoing contract negotiations with the player. So he could be
Speaker 1: nearing an extension with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers to remain
Speaker 1: in Tampa Bay. So there's a chance that you could
Speaker 1: be taking him off the free agency board as well.
Speaker 1: So take another layer.
Speaker 2: And now it's really tough to look at one of
Speaker 2: those guys that's going to come in and be the
Speaker 2: guy you wanted to be. Like, you know how I
Speaker 2: feel about Stefan Diggs. I think for years he's been
Speaker 2: one of the more underrated receivers in the league. But
Speaker 2: he's now on the wrong side of thirty and he's
Speaker 2: coming off torn Aco, so that's you know, you're asking
Speaker 2: for a lot there.
Speaker 1: He is Dallas bound.
Speaker 2: We talked about that'd be interesting. We talked about Cooper Cup.
Speaker 2: We talked about Deebo Samuel last week. I think Cooper
Speaker 2: Cup he hasn't really been that engine of an offense
Speaker 2: for you know, three years now.
Speaker 1: Ye, I mean really took over that role almost as
Speaker 1: a rookie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's also been banged up, and you know,
Speaker 2: he doesn't quite look like the same player Deebo Samuel,
Speaker 2: the same thing. He's dealt with injuries, he doesn't quite
Speaker 2: look like the same guy. And then you're getting into like,
Speaker 2: you know, DeAndre Hopkins, where's he at at this point?
Speaker 2: He's in his thirties. I think like Deontay Johnson's a
Speaker 2: free agent. Who would he played for four teams last year.
Speaker 2: Mike Williams like, these are the kind of players start
Speaker 2: to talk about, and it's that those aren't answers. Yeah,
Speaker 2: those you know it best. You're trying to get the
Speaker 2: last drop out of a guy before he hangs it up.
Speaker 2: And we've seen them do that time and time again.
Speaker 2: I don't want it. It's not quite Eric Decker. I
Speaker 2: don't want to go that far, but it's like Eric.
Speaker 1: Decker, Like no, Joey Galloway pulled.
Speaker 2: Joey Galloway for like a week. I don't think it
Speaker 2: could be quite that bad. Johnson, Dumarius Thomas, Chad Johnson
Speaker 2: might be up there to where it's like they probably
Speaker 2: should have kept a Marus Thomas in twenty nineteen. But it, yeah,
Speaker 2: like those guys feel more like that kind of signing
Speaker 2: than somebody's gonna come in here and really change the offense. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Diggs could if he's healthy, but thirty off of torn
Speaker 2: acl is risky.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think they're in a position to land
Speaker 1: a guy like Diggs. I think he's gonna be contender chasing,
Speaker 1: ring chasing. I also think he's gonna want to play
Speaker 1: with his brother in Dallas, and that might be a
Speaker 1: really good fit for him. There. So the last one
Speaker 1: I guess as of right now, a couple more. Actually
Speaker 1: there's two more. I wanted to get to Tray Smith
Speaker 1: in Kansas City. Now the report today is that probably
Speaker 1: no tag. Yesterday it was maybe transition tag, which is
Speaker 1: the same tag that the Patriots used on Kyle Duggar
Speaker 1: last year. So it's right a first refusal for the
Speaker 1: player in a contract negotiation, so he is going to
Speaker 1: hit unrestricted free agency. It sounds like now maybe there
Speaker 1: could be a rebuttal type you know, transition tag there
Speaker 1: for Kansas City, but you probably could bid for a
Speaker 1: guy like Trace Smith. That's probably going to be an
Speaker 1: option for the Patriots. My take on Tray Smith. I
Speaker 1: don't hate the idea of going after guy like Tray Smith.
Speaker 1: I don't love the idea of paying forty million dollars
Speaker 1: combined to your two guards, right because on when who
Speaker 1: just got paid? And then you're gonna have a lot
Speaker 1: of money invested in Trey Smith as well. Probably not
Speaker 1: the best way to use your resources. But this I
Speaker 1: feel really strongly about. I am not convinced that Patriots
Speaker 1: have a starting left guard on their roster. I think
Speaker 1: other people disagree with me on this, and that's okay,
Speaker 1: But I have not seen enough from Laden Robinson in
Speaker 1: his rookie season to pencil him in as a starter.
Speaker 1: We all know the Cold Strange thing has been an
Speaker 1: up and down roller coaster. I don't know if he's
Speaker 1: gonna play center. I don't know if he's gonna play guard.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's gonna be available right, Like,
Speaker 1: all these things are are problems. And maybe now that
Speaker 1: they get back to the downhill vertical run scheme a
Speaker 1: little bit, Citysow becomes a factor and is back in
Speaker 1: the picture here again under Josh McDaniels. But all three
Speaker 1: of those guys, to me, are still more or less
Speaker 1: unknown commodities. Like I don't feel good about going into
Speaker 1: next season counting on any of those three. So I
Speaker 1: don't think the Patriots are said at left guard. I
Speaker 1: think it's far from it to me.
Speaker 2: Look, I'm with you on that. I just I know
Speaker 2: they have a lot of cap space. I get that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it is a finite amount, yep. And if it's
Speaker 2: Tray Smith as like your second or third best for
Speaker 2: agents signing, I can totally get behind that. I agree
Speaker 2: with you they need a starting left guard. I don't
Speaker 2: know that they need like a top five left guard
Speaker 2: in football or I don't know where you'd put Tray
Speaker 2: Smith in that ranking, But like i'd I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm kind of thinking it's during real time like, if
Speaker 2: you're gonna have a rookie left tackle, I guess maybe
Speaker 2: I could see that investment. But like, I'll take and
Speaker 2: they can have both. They can have both. I'd rather
Speaker 2: have like a Josh Sweat than Trey Smith. I might
Speaker 2: even rather have Javon Holland than Trace Smith. I'm not
Speaker 2: anti Tray Smith, and there's a way to make it work.
Speaker 2: But if the big splash coming out of this offseason
Speaker 2: is Trey Smith, I don't think that's enough. If they
Speaker 2: do like a twenty twenty one type thing and they
Speaker 2: go get a Matthew Judan and he ends up being
Speaker 2: Hunter Henry, awesome, like that would be incredible if he's
Speaker 2: the big name. I don't think he did enough because
Speaker 2: there's other players out there, more premium positions that you
Speaker 2: need that if you're passing on those guys sign of guard,
Speaker 2: like you can find another starting caliber guard will be
Speaker 2: as good as Tray Smith. No, will he be good
Speaker 2: enough for what you need? Yeah? Probably, So it's I'm
Speaker 2: kind of in between on Trey Smith. I need to
Speaker 2: see the rest of the picture to see how there's
Speaker 2: a way he works. But I need to see the
Speaker 2: rest of the picture. I also don't.
Speaker 1: And look, maybe it's it's not a big deal to
Speaker 1: him whatsoever. I'm also not completely losing sight of the
Speaker 1: fact that he's a right guard, So he played right
Speaker 1: guard in Kansas City, Joe Toney obviously played left guard
Speaker 1: in Kansas City or has played left guard in Kansas City.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's as big of a deal
Speaker 1: as flipping at tackle. I think flipping at tackle tackle
Speaker 1: is problem as big. It might be a little bit
Speaker 1: of a bigger deal. But at the same time, we've
Speaker 1: done this before. We've seen this before, we flipped guys around.
Speaker 1: So now you're gonna pay a guy twenty million dollars
Speaker 1: to potentially pay him out a position.
Speaker 2: Didn't Did he play left guard like early in his career?
Speaker 2: Am I imagining that.
Speaker 1: He's only played right guard in Kansas City? To my knowledge,
Speaker 1: I went back and clicked through a PFF, and I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure he's only played right guard. Maybe he played
Speaker 1: left guard in college. You know those guards, It's it's
Speaker 1: different than.
Speaker 2: That's even further back. Yeah, guards is easier because you're
Speaker 2: still it's about which way you're moving. Guards are moving. Well.
Speaker 1: It's also just like I think you know guards tend
Speaker 1: to cross train a lot more than tackles, I would say,
Speaker 1: especially in college, and they flip around and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So I'm not saying it's a deal breaker that he
Speaker 1: that he played predominantly right guard in Kansas City, but
Speaker 1: it's a it's a factor. I think if you're gonna
Speaker 1: pay a guy that kind of money, yeah, and then
Speaker 1: now we're gonna we're gonna flip sides, just like they've
Speaker 1: done with other people.
Speaker 2: You know me, I'm very anti lineman flipping sides, Like
Speaker 2: I think you play your position, but if it's doing it,
Speaker 2: guard is not easy. Doing it tackles a completely different
Speaker 2: beast like it's not it's a little apples to oranges.
Speaker 2: I will say this. I've seen some people Sayking Tradesmiths
Speaker 2: play tackle. I'm out on that one. Oh go get
Speaker 2: a real tackle, I'm out on that one. If you
Speaker 2: want to move to the left guard, I'll have that conversation.
Speaker 2: I'm not playing him at right tackle. I'm certainly not
Speaker 2: playing him a lot. That's the toughest move you could
Speaker 2: make is right guard to left tackle.
Speaker 1: So last one here you mentioned him, Javon Holland, who
Speaker 1: it sounds Cameron Wolf last night on NFL Network. I
Speaker 1: believe it is reported that they it's trending towards no
Speaker 1: tag for Jamon Holland in Miami, So he's gonna be
Speaker 1: a free agent. Now it goes back to a little
Speaker 1: bit of what you were saying about, like the twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one offseason, right, if you're gonna spend him, you
Speaker 1: gotta spend the money somewhere. And if you're kind of
Speaker 1: not gonna spend it at receiver and there's not any
Speaker 1: real receivers to spend it on, and so on and
Speaker 1: so forth, then just getting the best players on the
Speaker 1: market might be the way to go. Javon Holland is
Speaker 1: absolutely gonna be a top five player available on the
Speaker 1: free agent market, maybe even higher on some list. So
Speaker 1: he's one of the best.
Speaker 2: Players of a who's ahead of them. If we're taking
Speaker 2: t Higgins off, probably you.
Speaker 1: Know it's gonna be him, It's gonna be Sweat, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be Trey Smith. You know, those are gonna be
Speaker 1: the top three, I would.
Speaker 2: Think, and it'll take him out of Tray Smith.
Speaker 1: So he's a really really good center fielder, awesome free safety.
Speaker 1: Now you just paid Kyle Dugger, you just pay Jabriel Peppers.
Speaker 1: We don't know what's gonna go happen with Jabriel Peppers
Speaker 1: off the field, right all that illegal drama and stuff
Speaker 1: like that with him, So we'll see what happens with
Speaker 1: all of that. It absolutely fits better in the back
Speaker 1: end to have Dugger with Javon Holland you have a
Speaker 1: true free safety, you have a strong safety or with
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it these days, hybrid or whatever,
Speaker 1: and it fits the puzzle fits much better with those
Speaker 1: two guys.
Speaker 2: And we know they're not a player afraid to play
Speaker 2: three safety like you can absolutely have all three of
Speaker 2: them on the field at the same time. We've talked
Speaker 2: about them using some small or quicker linebackers. Now most
Speaker 2: of those guys are still two twenty five. Kyle Dugger
Speaker 2: and Jabrill Peppers are both around two fifteen. But these
Speaker 2: good football players, like, can you do some stuff where
Speaker 2: they're essentially it's not gonna be full time, but swapping
Speaker 2: into maybe those those smaller linebacker roles.
Speaker 1: I just wonder if one of those guys dugg Er Peppers.
Speaker 1: And obviously it's complicated with Peppers, so I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is how much you'd really get. I don't
Speaker 1: even know if it would be an option, but I'm
Speaker 1: not ruling out trading either one of those players and
Speaker 1: signing a guy like Javon Holland, keeping one of those
Speaker 1: guys and then having a much more uh, you know,
Speaker 1: like I was saying, you know, the puzzle fits a
Speaker 1: lot better in the back end together with those guys
Speaker 1: playing off of each other. In Tennessee, the Titans had
Speaker 1: Kevin Bayard for years with Rabel And say that again,
Speaker 1: Kevin Byared.
Speaker 2: Byered you buy Ard the a Why do you harp
Speaker 2: on that because it was difference? Does it make I
Speaker 2: have never heard of Pear.
Speaker 1: I'm rolling here, you said his name, continued, Kevin Byard,
Speaker 1: whatever you want to get that on this guy, you know,
Speaker 1: for a long time in Tennessee, was Pro Bowl, all
Speaker 1: Pro caliber safety, playing that that perch up top, you know,
Speaker 1: playing over the top of the of the defense.
Speaker 2: And I just.
Speaker 1: Wonder if Frabele would look at Javon Holland and see
Speaker 1: a pretty similar player, because I do and see a
Speaker 1: pretty similar skill set. I love the idea of going
Speaker 1: after Javon Holland. Now, yeah, it has to make sense,
Speaker 1: Like you have to make that safety room work, and
Speaker 1: you don't want to have you know, just like we
Speaker 1: were talking about with guards, you're gonna have what thirty
Speaker 1: forty million dollars invested in three safeties. That's a that's
Speaker 1: a lot of money in terms of the roster building.
Speaker 1: But they have so much money, and they.
Speaker 2: Have so much These are some of the things you
Speaker 2: can do when you have not just a quarterback, but
Speaker 2: they have their star corner on a rookie contract as well.
Speaker 2: Those are big money positions. So and they really, what
Speaker 2: do they have invested in linebacker? Bentley's deal isn't significant? No,
Speaker 2: so you can't it's significant. He's a good player, but
Speaker 2: like it's not a lot of money. So if you're saying,
Speaker 2: all right, well, you know, we're not. We have these
Speaker 2: three safeties, so we're not. You know, maybe that's a
Speaker 2: guy that we're keeping in place of a linebacker. Borrow
Speaker 2: some money from the linebacker room. Who borrow some money
Speaker 2: from the cornerback room. Because we have a top five
Speaker 2: corner in the league in Christian Zalez making rookie money.
Speaker 2: Borrow some money from that quarterback room. Things like that.
Speaker 2: You know, ideally in two to three years two to
Speaker 2: three to four years, we start parsing the well, you know,
Speaker 2: it's a lot of money spent at this position or
Speaker 2: a lot of money spent at that position, because they've
Speaker 2: a lot of good players right now. Like you said,
Speaker 2: off the top there, just get the good football player
Speaker 2: and then you go from there. And I will say too,
Speaker 2: to your point about the trades. I know Duggar, you know,
Speaker 2: with his legal situation, is tough to trade. The well,
Speaker 2: Kyle Dougga's coming off that ankle injury that clearly limited
Speaker 2: him last year, so he might be tough to move
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I look at free agency maybe a slightly different
Speaker 1: than the draft in terms of best player available, because
Speaker 1: in free agency, there's not the pool isn't as large
Speaker 1: in terms of the top end town, the pool.
Speaker 2: Isn't as large, and it's not like you get to
Speaker 2: pick your free agent and then thirty free agents go
Speaker 2: before you get to go.
Speaker 1: There, right right, So in free agency, I think when
Speaker 1: you go into free agency with needs in mind, like
Speaker 1: we need a left tackle, we need a wide receiver,
Speaker 1: we need this player, you end up with mediocre players
Speaker 1: in those spots. A lot of the time you and
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to throw shade at these guys, but
Speaker 1: like in twenty twenty one, you know, you end up
Speaker 1: with the Nelson Agalors and you end up with a
Speaker 1: guy in Johnny Smith who wasn't really a fit, but
Speaker 1: like it was the best tight end on the market,
Speaker 1: so we're gonna sign him. Anyways, you you needed a
Speaker 1: corner of defensive back, so you end up with a
Speaker 1: guy like Jalen Mills, who's a solid player, but he's
Speaker 1: not a game changer. He's not a real difference making player.
Speaker 1: So when you go into a free agency, if Javon
Speaker 1: Holland is the best free agent on the market and
Speaker 1: you're the team sitting there with the most cap space
Speaker 1: and he's a damn good football player, sign Jevon Holland, right,
Speaker 1: And then you figure out all these logjams and things
Speaker 1: like that as you go. You know, if Tray Smith
Speaker 1: is the best free agent on your board and you
Speaker 1: have one hundred and thirty million dollars in cap space
Speaker 1: and can now bid everybody, then sign Trey Smith. And yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a lot of money invested in guards, Like, there's
Speaker 1: no doubt about that.
Speaker 2: You're not paying tackles and if you get your tackle
Speaker 2: in the draft, you're not gonna be paying tackles for
Speaker 2: a few years now.
Speaker 1: You know. And you have a really sturdy, very really
Speaker 1: good depth to the pocket. For Drake May, yeah, he
Speaker 1: has a pocket to step up into. He's got a
Speaker 1: nice clean shelf all the time. You can run the football,
Speaker 1: you know, up the middle, up the gut, you know,
Speaker 1: just like Josh McDaniels wants to do. Like you can
Speaker 1: really look at that and say, all right, we have
Speaker 1: we have something to build off of, just like Kansas City,
Speaker 1: you know, with those three guys in the middle. So
Speaker 1: I look at the free agency a little bit different.
Speaker 1: Similarly bit different in terms of that within the draft
Speaker 1: because of the talent pool, what what is available to
Speaker 1: you is very different in free agency than it is
Speaker 1: in the draft. You can't force it in free agency,
Speaker 1: you just can't. So that's free agency. I want to
Speaker 1: hit on a few of these top storylines with the combine,
Speaker 1: and then the emails are just rolling in, so we'll
Speaker 1: get to all these emails here in a few minutes.
Speaker 1: But I think the three biggest storylines, sorry, the four
Speaker 1: biggest storylines going in for the Patriots. I figured but
Speaker 1: these are the four that actually matter.
Speaker 2: Okay, one of them is about some guys you really like,
Speaker 2: so I don't think you're gonna have.
Speaker 1: It number one to me.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: And this is not Patriot directly related, but it's Patriot adjacent.
Speaker 1: This is the time of year where the quarterbacks really
Speaker 1: start to solidify themselves, right. You start to get into
Speaker 1: those meeting rooms, you start to get into throwing sessions.
Speaker 1: But most importantly, at an event like the Combine, this
Speaker 1: is probably the first time that these teams have truly
Speaker 1: interacted with cam Ward and interacted with Shador Sanders face
Speaker 1: to face in their top decision makers, their general managers,
Speaker 1: they're head coaches, their offensive coordinators, putting them up on
Speaker 1: the whiteboard, talking to these guys about football, talking about
Speaker 1: life with these guys. That's a big deal in this
Speaker 1: draft for the Patriots, even though they don't need a quarterback,
Speaker 1: we all know the scenario. If they can get two
Speaker 1: of these quarterbacks to get to go in the first
Speaker 1: three picks of this draft, it changes everything for the
Speaker 1: entire draft for the Patriots. If Abdul Carter or Travis
Speaker 1: Hunter is sitting there at the fourth overall pick and
Speaker 1: they need the quarterbacks to go, So I just quickly
Speaker 1: on the quarterback or.
Speaker 2: Just within that even if one goes and it's not
Speaker 2: the ideal scenario, but somebody's showing enough that the Raiders
Speaker 2: or the Saints fall in love and are willing to
Speaker 2: give up the typical quarterback package to move up and
Speaker 2: get them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fair enough. Looking quickly at these quarterbacks, I haven't
Speaker 1: done deep dives into these quarterbacks, but I have done,
Speaker 1: you know enough that I feel watched Xavierstrepo.
Speaker 2: You've watched Travis Hunters.
Speaker 1: So I've seen enough of them at this point to
Speaker 1: have a take. And I look at cam Ward, I
Speaker 1: kind of I think I might have test you this.
Speaker 1: I see a little Justin Fields and cam Ward there's
Speaker 1: an issue with holding the ball. There's an issue I
Speaker 1: think in terms of decision making and prosing speed that
Speaker 1: exists there. But there's all sorts of multiple talent, right,
Speaker 1: There's a lot of physical talent, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: arm talent. I think the one difference between Ward and
Speaker 1: Justin Fields and the reason why I brought up Justin Fields.
Speaker 1: Both could run a little bit. Both have the same
Speaker 1: kind of build. I would say, like cam Ward is
Speaker 1: not like a six foot five prospect, right, you know,
Speaker 1: he's gonna be probably more built like a like a
Speaker 1: big running back instead of a typical quarterback build. But
Speaker 1: the one thing I would say is a little bit
Speaker 1: different with cam Ward than Justin Fields. I think his
Speaker 1: arm is more flexible, Like, I think he has more
Speaker 1: he has more pitches to throw, and he can throw
Speaker 1: from different arm angles. Like Justin Field, Justin feels always
Speaker 1: really robotic to me, you know, like it was a
Speaker 1: robotic release. He had to have his feet set and
Speaker 1: have a platform, whereas I think cam Ward's got a
Speaker 1: little bit more of that off platform ability. But you
Speaker 1: could talk yourself into it with cam Ward easily. I
Speaker 1: mean the physical tools are definitely there. I just think
Speaker 1: that there's a little bit of rawness overall to his
Speaker 1: pro into the quarterback nuance in the detail. With Shador Sanders,
Speaker 1: I feel like it's kind of the opposite. I think
Speaker 1: Shador is an okay athlete. I think he has a
Speaker 1: decent arm. I don't think he's wows you with physical
Speaker 1: traits Like I don't think you watch the door and say, wow,
Speaker 1: that is a you know, a Drake may type prospect
Speaker 1: or someone like that that's just got a ton of
Speaker 1: physical talent. But what I do see with Shador is
Speaker 1: like a natural feel for the pocket, a natural feel
Speaker 1: for decision making processing, but just a natural feel for
Speaker 1: quarterback play, which I think makes sense. His father is
Speaker 1: a head coach. Yeah, you know he's gonna he has
Speaker 1: grown up in this life. He's grown up around really
Speaker 1: good quarterbacks. You know, he's worked with Tom Brady, like,
Speaker 1: he's done all that kind of quarterback guru stuff from
Speaker 1: you know, Manning, passing camps and all that good stuff.
Speaker 1: Probably since like the sixth grade, he's been doing all
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. So he's a natural quarterback, but
Speaker 1: maybe not the athlete that cam Ward is, whereas cam
Speaker 1: Ward's the ball of clay. Both these guys I think
Speaker 1: you can talk yourself into in the top ten. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's as blasphemous as maybe I thought, like
Speaker 1: a month or six weeks ago that agreed, I think
Speaker 1: these guys are better than that. If I had to
Speaker 1: go with cops, like I said, cam Ward reminds me
Speaker 1: a little bit of Justin Fields with maybe a little
Speaker 1: bit more freedom in his arm, And then I would
Speaker 1: say with Shador, I don't know if you how you
Speaker 1: feel about this, But I kind of see a little
Speaker 1: bit of Bonnixt in this game, Like.
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I see a good athlete, but not a great athlete.
Speaker 1: I see a good arm, not a great arm. And
Speaker 1: I see some moxie and some toughness. H So I
Speaker 1: see a little bit of bon Nix in there with him.
Speaker 1: But overall, like I Bonix went what twelve or whatever
Speaker 1: it was last year, and you know, justin Fields, I
Speaker 1: think it was ten or eleven wait to Chicago.
Speaker 2: You compare Sanders to bon Nicks, but you also compared
Speaker 2: bo Nicks to quinn Ewers.
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever compared both you did last year.
Speaker 2: You did last year. I remember this very what is
Speaker 2: You're like, what does it matter? Because quin you weres
Speaker 2: Anders are nothing like.
Speaker 1: I don't think I ever compared both you did.
Speaker 2: I remember it, Okay, I don't know. I think is
Speaker 2: a better athlete and you're giving him credit for I
Speaker 2: thinks is a pretty good athlete. He had a I mean,
Speaker 2: that offensive line in Colorado was atrocious, yep, and he
Speaker 2: had to compensate for that a lot, and I think
Speaker 2: he did a good job of it. But it definitely
Speaker 2: impacted him at times. I'm trying to again, I can't
Speaker 2: get behind Nicks. I'm trying to think of a better comp.
Speaker 2: I'm going back to like quarterback classes in my mind
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 1: I feel like my my comp with Nick's other than
Speaker 1: like the skill set part of it is more just
Speaker 1: like how I viewed the ceiling and the floor of
Speaker 1: Shador Sanders.
Speaker 2: Like I think can elevate a little bit. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's a true elevator, but I
Speaker 1: think if you put him with Sean Payton and behind
Speaker 1: a great offensive line, and now that you know what
Speaker 1: Denver basically said bo Nix up with, I think that
Speaker 1: there's a really good chance that Shador has a pretty
Speaker 1: good start to his career.
Speaker 2: I think he can do more in terms of like
Speaker 2: throwing receivers open, and I think he can access some
Speaker 2: more parts of the field than bo Nicks can, especially
Speaker 2: when you're talking about between the numbers. I still can't
Speaker 2: really come up with a comp. I'm like trying to
Speaker 2: go back through the years in my brain, but I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. Yeah, the comp isn't important. The important
Speaker 1: part is is that this is the time of year
Speaker 1: where it really kind of starts for these quarterbacks in
Speaker 1: terms of all of the interview process, the vetting process,
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff that makes a lot
Speaker 1: of these decisions at this time of year. Like if
Speaker 1: you were in honest, true serum form with Elliott Wolf
Speaker 1: and Girodemeo this time last year, they truly did not
Speaker 1: know which quarterback they were gonna take necessarily, I don't
Speaker 1: think at three overall, once you get through the pro
Speaker 1: days and stuff like that, it really starts to solidify itself.
Speaker 1: So that's the quarterback take.
Speaker 2: I want to add on to that, But real quick,
Speaker 2: how about as a comp that's not a do on
Speaker 2: say Baker Mayfield because they both kind of have that
Speaker 2: moxy they can bols. What are we talking about? You
Speaker 2: did you need?
Speaker 1: You need to go watch bo Nix last year with Denver?
Speaker 2: I really don't. Yeah, you do.
Speaker 1: It was better than you think.
Speaker 2: The the other thing about the uh.
Speaker 1: You just said Baker, that's literally bo Nicks.
Speaker 2: No, Baker, Baker. Baker is more of a live arm.
Speaker 2: I think he's better in the intermediate, he's better in
Speaker 2: the pocket. Maybe if we're doing floor ceiling or middle ceiling.
Speaker 1: Okay, I think if you're comparing him to Baker and
Speaker 1: bo Nicks and I'm comparing him to Bonnicks, I think
Speaker 1: we're in the same ball.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, we just feel very differently about Bonex. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I know. The other thing with the quarterbacks too, is like,
Speaker 2: does anybody else enter this conversation? And I know that
Speaker 2: sounds ridiculous in this quarterback class where you know, comparing
Speaker 2: the top prospects to Justin Fields and Bonnicks. But if
Speaker 2: somebody else does move up, you know, now maybe a
Speaker 2: third teams trading up for that pick, or somebody moves
Speaker 2: up in the late first round, and that pushes a
Speaker 2: prospect down a thirty eight something like that. So the
Speaker 2: guy I'm looking at, for whatever reason, Jackson Dart, got
Speaker 2: a ton of hype after the Senior Bowl.
Speaker 1: Good agent, It's J. J.
Speaker 2: McCarthy all over again. I have no clue what is
Speaker 2: going on there, but you know what, sure, I'll say this,
Speaker 2: I think an NFL teams should totally give up a
Speaker 2: ton to trade up to four to take Jackson Dart
Speaker 2: right like I would love that, Please do go ahead.
Speaker 2: It's not gonna happen, But like does Jackson Dart build
Speaker 2: on any of that momentum. Will Howard off winning the
Speaker 2: National Championship and really turning things around off that Oregon game.
Speaker 2: He's got the frame, he's got the arm, he's a
Speaker 2: little bit older, he has that experience. He's somebody. Maybe
Speaker 2: if he tests well at the combine, I could see
Speaker 2: teams buying in on. And then the real wild carters
Speaker 2: Jalen Milroe, who obviously did not have the season a
Speaker 2: lot of people wanted him to have coming off of
Speaker 2: what was a very very good twenty twenty three season.
Speaker 2: But the athleticism, the arm, strength, the the what's the
Speaker 2: word courage, I guess in the pocket, like toughness, toughness
Speaker 2: in the pocket. That's a good one, you know. It's
Speaker 2: you talk about a Paul of Clay, big time ball
Speaker 2: of Clay.
Speaker 1: That was an interesting one to me.
Speaker 2: Those are the three if there's gonna be a those
Speaker 2: are the competitors with QB three. To me, it's Will Howard,
Speaker 2: it's Jackson Dart, and it's Jaln Milroe. Will Howard and
Speaker 2: Jaln Milroe or kind of a flavor thing. I'm literally
Speaker 2: only including Jackson Dart. It's the same thing we did
Speaker 2: with Will Levis a couple of years ago too, where
Speaker 2: like he's not even as good as he's not. He's
Speaker 2: a worse. Will Levis is my cop. But it's like
Speaker 2: I refuse to talk about Will Levis going as high
Speaker 2: as people said he was going to until it got
Speaker 2: to the point where, well, I have to acknowledge it
Speaker 2: because so many people are talking about it. So fine,
Speaker 2: I'll talk about it, but it probably shouldn't happen. But
Speaker 2: I'll put him in the conversation because, like you say,
Speaker 2: he's a great agent, so apparently we have to put
Speaker 2: him in the conversation. I'm so glad we're not doing
Speaker 2: quarterbacks with the Patriots this year. I'm so glad.
Speaker 1: I have no idea what anybody saw in Jackson Dart
Speaker 1: that week in Mobile, that all of a sudden he
Speaker 1: became the darling of the quarterbacks that were in Mobile.
Speaker 1: Jalen Milroe is intriguing ish because I hate to do
Speaker 1: this to them, but like it's a copycat league. People
Speaker 1: are gonna see Jalen Hurts and they're gonna think Jalen Milroe.
Speaker 1: They just are. It's lazy and it's bad. But that's
Speaker 1: just the bottom line, that's how the league works. They're
Speaker 1: gonna look at him dual threat quarterback, somebody that most
Speaker 1: people consider raw as a passer. But we can develop
Speaker 1: them and we can get them there, and if he's
Speaker 1: supported and all that stuff, well he'll be Jalen Hurts
Speaker 1: or something like that, and you know, water down Jalen Hurts.
Speaker 1: Will Howard's intriguing to me for one reason, and that's
Speaker 1: that if you're one of these OC or head coach
Speaker 1: play callers that is really convinced that your system is
Speaker 1: just the beas knees right, like your system is just
Speaker 1: going to prop up any quarterback. Kyle Shanahan is an
Speaker 1: obvious one, although I don't really see why.
Speaker 2: But whatever the case, No, what do you mean, you know,
Speaker 2: if they don't want to pay Rock Party.
Speaker 1: It sounds like they're gonna pay Rock Party.
Speaker 2: If they don't want to you Will Howard on day two.
Speaker 1: If they go to brock Purty with the Daniel Jones
Speaker 1: contract and it's like really kind of just a two
Speaker 1: year deal, then maybe obviously Chip Kelly is in Vegas. Now,
Speaker 1: say he need a quarterback.
Speaker 2: Vegas for Will Howard makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: If you're looking for that brock Purty type of quarterback
Speaker 1: where all you're asking him to do is hit the
Speaker 1: buttons on the controllers in a perfect situation with the
Speaker 1: perfect line and perfect skilled players and all that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. Will Howard just did it at Ohio State, right,
Speaker 1: And he can do that. And I think he's different
Speaker 1: from JJ McCarthy because JJ McCarthy was like high ceiling,
Speaker 1: low floor, right, whereas I think Will Howard is just
Speaker 1: game manager.
Speaker 2: Well, there's already different. Will Howard's a lot more experienced,
Speaker 2: he's bigger. Yeah, JJ McCarthy was more athletic. Howard is
Speaker 2: more athletic than people think, especially if you go watch
Speaker 2: the Kansas State tape. He did more with his legs
Speaker 2: at Kings Sikes in need to last year, except the
Speaker 2: one time he really didn't need to when he did
Speaker 2: against Oregon. But I don't know why I keep going
Speaker 2: back to that, but like he's yeah, he's that guy.
Speaker 2: He is as plug and play a quarterback as there
Speaker 2: is in this draft except Jackson darterpar all.
Speaker 1: Right, So that's the quarterbacks. They spend way too much
Speaker 1: time on quarterbacks for team.
Speaker 2: It's no, but it's definitely it's how it sets up
Speaker 2: the board for the paper.
Speaker 1: It's definitely irrelevant, and not only just last thing. It's
Speaker 1: not only irrelevant at four. It could be relevant at
Speaker 1: thirty eight because you brought up Will Levis, who goes
Speaker 1: early second round, and is I think he's the first
Speaker 1: pick of Day two Titans trade up for that he
Speaker 1: might have, They might have. It sounds right, So it's
Speaker 1: a factor twenty three. It's a factor in the in
Speaker 1: the draft of how these quarterbacks fall and what that
Speaker 1: means for the Patriots. The second biggest storyline for the
Speaker 1: Patriots at the combine, I personally think it's the second biggest.
Speaker 1: Maybe Travis Hunter and what he says about his position
Speaker 1: they did both privately and publicly is the biggest, is
Speaker 1: the second biggest story line. But to me personally, Will
Speaker 1: Campbell's arm length and measurements is the second biggest.
Speaker 2: April second, Sunday or March second, sorry Sunday, mark your calendars.
Speaker 1: That to me is the second biggest story line. I've
Speaker 1: gone back and forth enough about on Twitter with people.
Speaker 1: I think everybody understands my stance on Will Campbell. The
Speaker 1: one thing I'll continue to just say about Will Campbell
Speaker 1: stop calling it a major reach if they take him
Speaker 1: at four. We got to stop with that. It's not
Speaker 1: He's a consensus top player in the draft. He's been
Speaker 1: a top tackle prospect in the draft since last year,
Speaker 1: when a lot of people thought he would have been,
Speaker 1: you know, right in between Joe Walton and Olufushanu if
Speaker 1: he was able to come.
Speaker 2: Out last year, which is I still think where he is, yeah,
Speaker 2: as a player.
Speaker 1: And now he is this year. He's sixth on the
Speaker 1: consensus board. He's sixth on Dan Brugler's Top one hundred,
Speaker 1: He's eighth and DJ's top fifty. He is a top
Speaker 1: top prospect in this draft. If he comes in next
Speaker 1: week and he's got thirty two and one eighths inch arms,
Speaker 1: that we have to put it to bed, and I
Speaker 1: will let it go. I will put it to bed
Speaker 1: at that point. I don't think that's going to be
Speaker 1: the case.
Speaker 2: I don't think so either. It's just a hunch.
Speaker 1: I don't have any great information, a hunch.
Speaker 2: It's more a hunt for me because Daniel Jeremiah tweeted
Speaker 2: I think in late January that Campbell was working out
Speaker 2: as a tackle and he could he can go buy
Speaker 2: a tape measure he can measure his arms right. If
Speaker 2: he thinks he's gonna be going through the process as
Speaker 2: a guard, training is a tackle is a massive waste
Speaker 2: of time and a very important taking his life. So
Speaker 2: if he's still training as a tackle, my guess is
Speaker 2: he has an idea that he's going to measure in
Speaker 2: as a tackle.
Speaker 1: I think he's going to come in right over thirty
Speaker 1: three inches. And this is just a hunch. I don't
Speaker 1: have any inside information. I just think he's going to
Speaker 1: come in right over thirty three.
Speaker 2: Have you seen the people who did the thing where
Speaker 2: it's like the computer generated it's him, and all right,
Speaker 2: we know he's this tall and he'll do this, and
Speaker 2: it's gonna as talking fever about this the other day.
Speaker 2: He's gonna come in at thirty two and seven eighths
Speaker 2: because that's for the content, that's where it's the best.
Speaker 2: Because he comes in thirty three or higher, he's a tackle. Yeah,
Speaker 2: thirty two and a half or less, he's a guard. Yeah,
Speaker 2: thirty two and seven eighths is where we have the
Speaker 2: conversation because now it becomes is he okay, he's below
Speaker 2: the benchmark, but by literally like this much, right, is
Speaker 2: he talented enough to reset the benchmark the way ra
Speaker 2: Shaan Slater did three years ago. Thirty two and seven
Speaker 2: eighths is where the conversation is anything else. There's no
Speaker 2: conversation one way or the other. I'll make this pledge
Speaker 2: to all the people that hate Will Campbell out there
Speaker 2: right now. If he comes in over thirty three, you
Speaker 2: shut up about the guard stuff. If he comes in
Speaker 2: thirty two and a half or less, all shut up
Speaker 2: about the tackle stuff. Thirty two and seven eighths is
Speaker 2: where we have a debate.
Speaker 1: I look at Will Campbell's film and I just I've
Speaker 1: watched multiple times. Yeah, I try to see both sides
Speaker 1: of it. I just don't think that length is his
Speaker 1: biggest issue. I'm not saying that he doesn't have to
Speaker 1: make up for it a little bit in other ways,
Speaker 1: because he does.
Speaker 2: There's no such thing as a perfect process. But I
Speaker 2: don't I see.
Speaker 1: His biggest issue to me right now is that he
Speaker 1: overshoots or oversets his landmark to the outside, and that
Speaker 1: opens up those inside counters, right, so he gets spun off,
Speaker 1: or he gets beat to the inside, across his face
Speaker 1: and things of that nature. That to me is more
Speaker 1: about like footwork than it is about length. And with
Speaker 1: tackle play and offensive line play, everything starts from the
Speaker 1: ground up. It's a lot like quarterback. It's everything starts
Speaker 1: with your feet. It's feet, and then it's do you
Speaker 1: have a natural plan and feel for the position and
Speaker 1: play strength? Those are the three biggest boxes you need
Speaker 1: to check. He checks all three of those boxes. He's
Speaker 1: a great athlete for the position. He moves well for
Speaker 1: the position. He's a very very seasoned and battle tested.
Speaker 2: Tackle in the by the way, he's.
Speaker 1: Strong as heck. It's probably his best strength is his
Speaker 1: core strength and his upper body twitch and his power
Speaker 1: in his h in his body. He's a very strong dude.
Speaker 1: So when you check all three of those boxes, like
Speaker 1: those are the foundational elements to me to play tackle.
Speaker 2: In the league.
Speaker 1: Now we can talk about, all right, how is he
Speaker 1: going to hand fight? How is he going to set
Speaker 1: to counter the fact that he doesn't have the great length?
Speaker 1: That's all coach, which I agree is all coachable.
Speaker 2: So as Lexie's functional length, we'll.
Speaker 1: Get to Will Campbell, you know, we'll see his arm length.
Speaker 1: Maybe we put it to bed one way or and
Speaker 1: now there, let me.
Speaker 2: Ask you this. I'm putting it to bed because a
Speaker 2: lot of people want them to trade down, and we
Speaker 2: talked earlier about how they don't have a clear starting
Speaker 2: left guard. Yeah, let's say they sign Alaric Jackson in
Speaker 2: free agency, right, and you know they moved down in
Speaker 2: the draft. Let's say they moved down to like ten
Speaker 2: eleven twelve somewhere in there. Would you take him as
Speaker 2: a guard at ten eleven twelve.
Speaker 1: Oh, at ten eleven twelve, probably.
Speaker 2: Not a four. I'm not at four if they depending
Speaker 2: on what happens in free agency, there might be because
Speaker 2: I think he's a hell of a guard too, if
Speaker 2: he's playing guard. Yeah, Like, if you move down, there's
Speaker 2: a chance he's, you know, one of the better players
Speaker 2: of bill. I don't know that i'd take him over
Speaker 2: like a Tyler Warren, But if you move down that far,
Speaker 2: you get what's fair for it. I'm not writing him
Speaker 2: off in Tigerly, it just becomes a lot, lot lot
Speaker 2: less realistic.
Speaker 1: I just look at two things that I hear a
Speaker 1: lot with Will Campbell. One is that he'd be a
Speaker 1: massive reach out for I need this not sure that
Speaker 1: needs to stop, but that's not true. And the other
Speaker 1: is the word value, and that the value isn't good enough,
Speaker 1: which I'm not really sure what that means.
Speaker 2: I it's it's something. Well, it's like, what does that mean?
Speaker 2: It's also the thing people Well, I think it's just
Speaker 2: something people use as a placeholder. I feel like it's
Speaker 2: a This is a and I'm not like coming at anybody.
Speaker 2: I mean this honestly, and it's something I've dealt with.
Speaker 2: This is a difficult draft to talk about because of
Speaker 2: the lack of talent. Yeah, and a lot of things
Speaker 2: that we usually fall back on maybe aren't available. So
Speaker 2: when I hear people say I wouldn't take Will Campbell
Speaker 2: at four, the value is taking him at you know,
Speaker 2: seven eight nine. I wouldn't take Tech McMillan at four,
Speaker 2: but I take him at seven eight nine. Right, Guys
Speaker 2: like that, you know, uh, Mason Graham, same thing. Wouldn't
Speaker 2: take him at four, but I feel a lot better
Speaker 2: take him at seven eight nine because you feel like
Speaker 2: in a normal draft, that's where he go. Okay, well,
Speaker 2: you got to tell me then, when you move back
Speaker 2: from four to seven, or you moved back from four
Speaker 2: to nine, who's going in the picks in between? It's
Speaker 2: pushing him down because if you like and don't get
Speaker 2: to magically move back.
Speaker 1: And the other thing with the trade down thing that
Speaker 1: that's starting to bug me is why is the team
Speaker 1: at at nine or the team at seven or the
Speaker 1: team at ten or whatever, like you have to have
Speaker 1: a reason to trade to nine.
Speaker 2: Six And I shouldn't have been using seven. I pulled
Speaker 2: that out of my ass. It's six and nine.
Speaker 1: It's okay, But you're convincing me. Then they're trading up
Speaker 1: for the quarterback, right, which I.
Speaker 2: Just don't see happening. It's not a guarantee, but just
Speaker 2: for the sake of the conversation, right.
Speaker 1: Correct, But like that's what we're doing. We're just making
Speaker 1: up conversation. And like six and nine to me, like
Speaker 1: every we would all unless Abdol Carter, Travis Hunter is
Speaker 1: sitting there at four, Yeah, I would confidently say that
Speaker 1: we would all take the trade down. We would all
Speaker 1: do it. We would all trade down in this draft.
Speaker 1: It's the way to go for them. It adds draft capital.
Speaker 1: It's not a great top of the draft. You're not
Speaker 1: talking about getting a Joe Alter or Marvin Harrison junior
Speaker 1: or a Molik neighbor level talent at that spot, it's
Speaker 1: the move. But who is trading up and why? And
Speaker 1: what are you getting for it? Like is it worth
Speaker 1: the trade?
Speaker 2: That's that's the other thing. You don't just move down
Speaker 2: if it's all right, you know Saints called move down
Speaker 2: to nine, you know will give you nine and a
Speaker 2: third round pick. No, that's not worth it, and you
Speaker 2: don't want to set that precedent, even if somebody might say, well,
Speaker 2: if that's all you can get in this draft, it's
Speaker 2: better than nothing. But now next year, when you're on
Speaker 2: the phone with teams, like you've set and this is
Speaker 2: gonna happen to other teams too, like you've set the value.
Speaker 2: It's it's economics at that point. Now six to nine
Speaker 2: is worth a third round pick, which it's not. And
Speaker 2: you don't want to set the precedent that it is
Speaker 2: because you might be trading down in the future and
Speaker 2: you don't want to have to set that. You're just
Speaker 2: you're you're it just to me.
Speaker 1: It's just comes back to you have to look at
Speaker 1: it and say, who is trading up and why are
Speaker 1: they trading up? And then to your point, who is
Speaker 1: going right from at nine? To make sure that you're
Speaker 1: getting Will Campbell at nine now or Ted McMillan at nine.
Speaker 2: For these mythical players that are going in between that.
Speaker 2: You know, if there's nobody who feel comfortable being drafting
Speaker 2: at four and five or six guys you feel comfortable
Speaker 2: drafting at nine, guess what those five guys are going
Speaker 2: between four and nine, right, Like, that's who's gonna fill
Speaker 2: Somebody's gonna fill that gap. So that part's really important
Speaker 2: to keep in mind that you're, uh, it's six sixth
Speaker 2: right on Danie jeremiahs board, Will Campbell sixth.
Speaker 1: He's eighth on on DJ's and he's sixth on Dane Brew.
Speaker 2: Fine, that's fine. And I don't know if he has
Speaker 2: the quarterbacks above them, but like I don't believe you
Speaker 2: can almost just erase those guys that he does, or
Speaker 2: if he is genty above him, you can erase genty right. Well,
Speaker 2: that goes to my other point of best player available,
Speaker 2: and this is bugging me. Just take the best player available.
Speaker 2: And you know how I feel about this, yea, what
Speaker 2: best player available is a myth? Just saying I want
Speaker 2: the team to draft the best player available as a myth,
Speaker 2: because what does that mean if we were going to
Speaker 2: say evan best player. Okay, so we're ranking them out
Speaker 2: of one hundred, right, how good are they at their position?
Speaker 2: Out of one hundred? Ashton Genty a better running back
Speaker 2: than Mason Graham is a tackle? Defense tackle? All right?
Speaker 2: So according to best player available logic, we're taking Ashton Genty.
Speaker 2: Is Ashton Genty a better running back then? I mean
Speaker 2: who else is? I'll throw Will Campbell in there is
Speaker 2: Ashton gent a better running back than Will Campbell is
Speaker 2: a tackle? Yes? Yeah? So is Go back to last year,
Speaker 2: if we're just talking about who was the best at
Speaker 2: their position, Tory Taylor was the best player on the
Speaker 2: board by pick like five or six something like that.
Speaker 2: I don't remember exactly. A lot of teams passed on
Speaker 2: Tory Taylor. A lot of teams didn't take the best
Speaker 2: player available. Now people are yelling at me, it's a punter,
Speaker 2: it's a running big. Well, now we're putting qualifiers on it.
Speaker 2: Now we're talking about positional value. So it's not best
Speaker 2: player available, it's and even within that, even if it's
Speaker 2: a guy to premium position. And this isn't something the
Speaker 2: Patriots are necessarily dealing with. This year. Beyond quarterback or
Speaker 2: maybe corner. You need a guy that's gonna play. You
Speaker 2: need a guy that's gonna have a path to succeed.
Speaker 2: So best player available really means best player available for
Speaker 2: the football team. That's not purely drafting for need either,
Speaker 2: because you can go in the in the too far
Speaker 2: in the other direction and that's how you end up with,
Speaker 2: you know, taking guards and you know too high and
Speaker 2: running backs to hie and things like that. You want
Speaker 2: a guy that is gonna give you the bang for
Speaker 2: the buck, and that's where value comes in. But there's
Speaker 2: a happy medium there just saying you're gonna draft the
Speaker 2: best player. You're gonna be drafting punters and running backs
Speaker 2: because usually five or six picks in the most talented
Speaker 2: player on the board punter, running back, kicker, maybe a
Speaker 2: guard because those positions are devalued, so you have to
Speaker 2: find that balance.
Speaker 1: So I think this is like a new segment that
Speaker 1: we might have and I understand that it's it's a
Speaker 1: little bit maybe pretentious on our end, but like the
Speaker 1: things that are just bugging us about the draft discourse,
Speaker 1: because I feel like this draft is already getting it.
Speaker 1: I've ever a.
Speaker 2: Long time said best player available as a myth. I've
Speaker 2: said that for two or three years.
Speaker 1: A month and that's not new. And I'm already annoyed
Speaker 1: by several things. The trade down one is annoying me
Speaker 1: because this is one of those drafts when I and
Speaker 1: when I was in Mobile, everybody everybody wants to trade down.
Speaker 1: Nobody wants to pick in this draft. Everybody wants to.
Speaker 2: Trade downing you keep everybody.
Speaker 1: If everybody wants to trade down, then who is trading up?
Speaker 1: Like I know, to go back to go, I will
Speaker 1: say it's crazy. Everyone wants to trade down. No one
Speaker 1: wants to pick high in this draft.
Speaker 2: I'll entertain the trade up trade down thing a little
Speaker 2: bit more because at the end of the day, when
Speaker 2: push comes to shove, we know teams will get dumb
Speaker 2: about quarterbacks. We know We've seen it time and time.
Speaker 1: Teams might get dumb about the quarterbacks in this draft
Speaker 1: because it's at that point it's just like the town
Speaker 1: stinks anyways. So like, if we're Tennessee and we really
Speaker 1: have a strong grade on cam Ward.
Speaker 2: We feel good about it. We don't think he might
Speaker 2: not be an MVP.
Speaker 1: Caliber quarterback, but we feel like he can be a
Speaker 1: starting quarterback in this league and we still have like
Speaker 1: a comparable ish grade on him as we do on
Speaker 1: Abdul Carter, Then like, why wouldn't we take the quarterback? Right?
Speaker 1: And that's how I feel about all the options for
Speaker 1: the Patriots at four to like your best player available point.
Speaker 1: If all these players are clustered together, If Will Campbell
Speaker 1: and Mason Graham and Ted McMillan and Tyler Warren or
Speaker 1: whoever are all in one big cluster on your draft board,
Speaker 1: position is a factors.
Speaker 2: It does start to factor. It's the tie breaker.
Speaker 1: It's a tiebreaker, right, because otherwise it just you have
Speaker 1: to pick somebody. So to get to who you're gonna pick,
Speaker 1: you're gonna start to go to some of the things
Speaker 1: that maybe don't matter quite as much as the overall
Speaker 1: talent of the player, but are factors in the decision.
Speaker 1: Positional value, how we interviewed, how he measured, how is
Speaker 1: athletic testing, Like all these different things are gonna start
Speaker 1: to be the tiebreakers because all this talent is kind
Speaker 1: of condensed. And in this draft, I feel like that
Speaker 1: is so true more than any other draft I've ever covered.
Speaker 1: That From like four to twelve. It's all kind of
Speaker 1: the same player. So now it's do you need to tackle?
Speaker 1: Do you need a running back? Do you need a
Speaker 1: pass rusher? Do you do you need a corner?
Speaker 2: Will Johnson and we can debate, We can debate what
Speaker 2: the biggest need is at that point, like that's fair
Speaker 2: to do. And I think we both think it's tackling
Speaker 2: of those edge rusher. I might have that conversation, but yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: to me, it's at that point. Position does factor and
Speaker 2: as well. But I'm not ruling out the trade down entirely.
Speaker 2: I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm just telling you that I get that everyone wants
Speaker 1: out of this draft.
Speaker 2: I get that, and it suddenly and then suddenly you're
Speaker 2: a GM and you know the owner is really breathing
Speaker 2: on you. Who's our quarterback going to be this year?
Speaker 2: And maybe get some intel. You know, you're the Saints
Speaker 2: at nine, that were the Jets at seven or eight, whatever.
Speaker 2: You know, the Jets are hot after one of these
Speaker 2: quarterbacks announce all right, you know, gotta we gotta make
Speaker 2: ownership happy. We gotta save our jobs. We need this quarterback.
Speaker 2: We got to move like that can all. I will
Speaker 2: never rule out teams being stupid about quarterbacks. I will
Speaker 2: never rule that out because I've seen it happen too
Speaker 2: many times. I was told last year ad nause them.
Speaker 2: It was yelled into my face that Michael Pennix there
Speaker 2: was no shot he was gonna go in the first round.
Speaker 2: He was QB four. He went in the top ten.
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying that was a dumb pick. I
Speaker 2: liked that pick. The JJ McCarthy one was dumb. And
Speaker 2: that's the one where I was rung where I was like,
Speaker 2: I think teams will get it right, and they didn't.
Speaker 2: They picked them too high. So I quarterbacks will always
Speaker 2: fly up the board. Will they fly up enough that
Speaker 2: it benefits the Patriots in either pushing down Carter or
Speaker 2: Hunter or at least they can get a significant trade
Speaker 2: down out of it that I don't know. That is
Speaker 2: where maybe it's a step too far. But the quarterbacks
Speaker 2: are gonna go higher than people think. They're gonna be
Speaker 2: valued more than people think. A couple of the Tier
Speaker 2: two quarterbacks that we just talked about are gonna get
Speaker 2: talked about as top ten, top fifteen picks. They might
Speaker 2: even end up being that, because that's what generally happens
Speaker 2: with this league in quarterbacks, So saying that any of
Speaker 2: that is correct from the team's point of view, but
Speaker 2: I've seen it happen too many times. I'm not rolling
Speaker 2: it out.
Speaker 1: Okay, next point on here for me in terms of
Speaker 1: the combine. Now that we've gotten all that off our
Speaker 1: chests and I can die, I digress on those points.
Speaker 1: Josh Simmons, So medical rechecks, Yes, that's big time this
Speaker 1: time of year. My guess is that teams that are
Speaker 1: interested in Josh Simmons will also have him in for
Speaker 1: thirty visits to get their own medical staff on location
Speaker 1: to go through the knee as well. But his torn
Speaker 1: bertel attendant and his knee, I don't remember if it's
Speaker 1: left or right. I think it's right. Is the cold
Speaker 1: Strange injury?
Speaker 2: Yep?
Speaker 1: So Cole Strange missed an entire calendar year of football.
Speaker 2: It is worth noting. Didn't he say he had a setback?
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't remember hearing that, but you could
Speaker 1: be right. But so Josh Simmons a left tackle for
Speaker 1: Ohio State. There's there's two big things to go to
Speaker 1: discuss with Josh Simmons. Because the other thing that you
Speaker 1: hear a lot of and I'm not like as I'm
Speaker 1: bothered by this is like the Will Campbell stuff. But
Speaker 1: the other here thing you hear a lot of what
Speaker 1: Josh Simmons is. Well, just take Josh Simmons, right, Just
Speaker 1: take Josh Simmons. Uh, you know, with your second pick
Speaker 1: and that way there you don't have to quote unquote
Speaker 1: reach on a tackle at four.
Speaker 2: Overall, I don't know why I thought cold Strange said
Speaker 2: that I can't find it.
Speaker 1: Oh you mean Josh Simmons.
Speaker 2: No, close Strange.
Speaker 1: You think Strange had a set back.
Speaker 2: No, I thought I remember when he came back. I
Speaker 2: thought I remembered him saying when he was like talking
Speaker 2: about rehab that he was like, oh, like that he
Speaker 2: had a setback on so normally, so.
Speaker 1: That injury has become worse than like the torn ACL
Speaker 1: Like ACLS, they have kind of streamlined the surgery and
Speaker 1: the rehab and they have a good feel for that injury.
Speaker 1: This injury torn Betel attendant is a deadly injury like
Speaker 1: it is not. Again, well, let's say you're being metaphorical there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course deadly injuries.
Speaker 2: Okay, that has a literal meaning devastating injury.
Speaker 1: Yes, Uh, to have and so cold strange missed an
Speaker 1: entire calendar year of football. Josh Simmons was injured in
Speaker 1: November of last year, which means that at best we're
Speaker 1: projecting him to come back in November of this coming
Speaker 1: up season to make his NFL debut as a rookie.
Speaker 2: Right So, in.
Speaker 1: All intents and purposes, if you're drafting a guy like
Speaker 1: Josh Simmons as of right now, and there'll be a
Speaker 1: report next week from somebody that he's way ahead of schedule,
Speaker 1: because he always is, what happens, you know, the agent
Speaker 1: puts it out there. I think his agents Drew Rosenhouse,
Speaker 1: he'll put it out there that he's way ahead of
Speaker 1: schedule and make it known that he's going to be
Speaker 1: healthy and ready to go. That being said, if Josh
Speaker 1: Simmons misses a calendar year of football, you are you're
Speaker 1: really not getting him until his second year of service.
Speaker 2: And even then is he going to be the same
Speaker 2: player after the injury. It's a very difficult injury to
Speaker 2: come back from. So on one hand, just from a
Speaker 2: Patriots point of view, I don't know that this team
Speaker 2: can afford to have its first round pick not play
Speaker 2: like they need to be better in the first Roundick
Speaker 2: is going to be a part to that and he's
Speaker 2: not going to play. And then on top of that,
Speaker 2: are you getting the same player? Is their risk of
Speaker 2: re injury? All of that. You know, I've compared it,
Speaker 2: and this is a little bit extreme. I've kind of
Speaker 2: compared it to Dominique Easley. Now. At the time, the
Speaker 2: Patriots were in a position to take a player like
Speaker 2: that because their roster was incredibly deep and they were
Speaker 2: picking at the end of the first round, and how
Speaker 2: do you get a guy who was the top fifteen
Speaker 2: talent at the end of the first round? Medical red flag?
Speaker 2: Malcolm Mitchell was the same thing, was much more talented
Speaker 2: than his draft slot, but had a history of injury.
Speaker 2: You take a significant risk when you take players like that.
Speaker 2: And here people talk about you know, with the talent,
Speaker 2: you know there's not a risk because the talent blah
Speaker 2: blah blah. He's very talented. I get that. The medical
Speaker 2: thing is separate. Well, if he was healthy, but he's not, yeah,
Speaker 2: and you need to evaluate him that way. I had
Speaker 2: a couple other players too for the medical check.
Speaker 1: So the other thing that's big with Josh Simmons and
Speaker 1: I just wanted to point out I think this has
Speaker 1: to be part of the conversation. Josh Simmons played five
Speaker 1: games last year for Ohio State. He played junk, He
Speaker 1: played nobody. He played a terrible you know, typical big
Speaker 1: time college program opening schedule right where he's playing, you know,
Speaker 1: really just not at like high level competition. So he
Speaker 1: absolutely dominated bad competition. Okay, his best competition I think
Speaker 1: he played Iowa in Michigan State, which were too not
Speaker 1: very good football.
Speaker 2: He get hurt against somebody good.
Speaker 1: He got hurt against Oregon. Yeah, in the first half
Speaker 1: against Oregon. He played like twenty snaps against Oregon. So
Speaker 1: if you want to draft a player in the first
Speaker 1: round based off of twenty snaps against Oregon, then be
Speaker 1: my guest. But my point that I'm getting to with
Speaker 1: Josh Simmons, his tape took a really big leap from
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three to twenty twenty four. The problem is
Speaker 1: is that once Ohio State got to the meat of
Speaker 1: the schedule, he was hurt. So we have no idea
Speaker 1: what he would have looked like against Michigan against the
Speaker 1: teams they played in the College Football Playoff. Like we
Speaker 1: just don't know if this tape that was dominant for
Speaker 1: stretches at the beginning part of the season, would it
Speaker 1: have held up against better competition. We'll never know. So
Speaker 1: not only are you taking an injury risk on the player,
Speaker 1: but you're also projecting that this is all was all real,
Speaker 1: that that was all real and all substantive in terms
Speaker 1: of his tape last year. That's a pick to me
Speaker 1: with Josh Simmons, as intriguing as the traits are and
Speaker 1: is intriguing as the prospect profile is with him. If
Speaker 1: you're Kansas City, if you're a San Francisco, if you're
Speaker 1: one of these teams that can take on a little
Speaker 1: bit of risk because you have the talent in other
Speaker 1: areas to take on that risk, this would be a
Speaker 1: classic dynasty era Belichick pick. Right, we're gonna take Josh Simmons.
Speaker 1: He might not play as a rookie, but in year two,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have a franchise left tackle, and guess what
Speaker 1: we have Matt Lighte like on the last year of
Speaker 1: his contract to play next season. It's exactly what Bill
Speaker 1: would have done if they were picking thirty second in
Speaker 1: a draft. He would have taken a chance on a
Speaker 1: guy like this. You know, obviously I hope it works
Speaker 1: out better for Josh Simmons, but like it's not all
Speaker 1: that different than like Dominique Easley, right, yea that yeah?
Speaker 1: Oh did you?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: What hose?
Speaker 2: Listen And I've been saying it for like three weeks.
Speaker 2: What the hell so texted that to you?
Speaker 1: So it's like Dominic Easley, right, So all of these
Speaker 1: things add up to him going to a team like that.
Speaker 1: It for the Patriots, I just don't think it's a
Speaker 1: very safe pick for them. I don't think it makes
Speaker 1: a whole lot of sense. But his medical recheck will happen,
Speaker 1: We'll see what the knee looks like. We'll hear from
Speaker 1: me and Rappaport that he's six months ahead of schedule,
Speaker 1: and we'll talk more and more about Josh Simmons as
Speaker 1: we go. Who is your other.
Speaker 2: I was I'm just gonna say, on Simmons, if he
Speaker 2: gets to thirty eight, I'd entertain it a little more,
Speaker 2: especially if they don't take a tackle at the top.
Speaker 2: But he's not getting past the Chiefs at thirty one.
Speaker 2: There's no way. There's no way. The other injury guys,
Speaker 2: his teammates Seth mc McLaughlin, who was the center there
Speaker 2: at Ohio State, was a starter at Alabama. We'll started
Speaker 2: at Ohio State. He got hurt a little later in
Speaker 2: the year Tours Achilles, so that's another very significant injury.
Speaker 2: But unlike Simmons, this is a guy that just projected
Speaker 2: to go fourth, fifth, maybe even sixth rounds somewhere middle
Speaker 2: of day three. So at that point, yeah, you can
Speaker 2: take on the hit of a guy not playing. And
Speaker 2: you know the other part of that comparison we made
Speaker 2: with Josh Simmons, Like you said, you know we have
Speaker 2: Matt Light to take over. You still have David Andrews
Speaker 2: for a year, So Seth McLoughlin can learn behind the scenes.
Speaker 2: You take him in the fifth round. Benjamin Morrison, corner
Speaker 2: from Notre Dame. He dealt with an injury at the
Speaker 2: end of the year. Bryson Nesbit, his stock was a
Speaker 2: little because of injury. And then the really interesting one.
Speaker 2: I've actually gotten some questions about this guy the past
Speaker 2: couple of days because I think people are starting to
Speaker 2: look more beyond the first round. Chavon Revel from East
Speaker 2: Carolina was a transfer. He's everything, you know how I
Speaker 2: like long man corner, great athlete, all of that, but
Speaker 2: I think he only played like three games before he
Speaker 2: tours ACL and he's Carolina, so he really is an unknown.
Speaker 2: There's a ton of untapped potential there. He is somebody
Speaker 2: because he tours ACL so early in the season. I
Speaker 2: don't know that he's making it on the field like
Speaker 2: one of camp. But he's gonna be able to play
Speaker 2: as a rookie. He would be if his medicals check out.
Speaker 2: The Patriots want to get aggressive at corner. If he
Speaker 2: does fall to thirty eight, and maybe he doesn't if
Speaker 2: the medicals don't check out, if the medicals do check out,
Speaker 2: but like, if he's somehow on the board of thirty
Speaker 2: eight and the health is good, would be a very
Speaker 2: interesting player for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The only other guy that I just because I
Speaker 1: watched him recently, actually yesterday. I don't think his injuries major,
Speaker 1: but Cameron Williams from Texas, the right tackle he had
Speaker 1: that knee injury in the College Football playoffs. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: it seemed like that was maybe more severe than what
Speaker 1: they initially thought, and he kind of cut it through
Speaker 1: it for the sake of the College Football playoff and
Speaker 1: played terribly. But that's not his fault for playing back.
Speaker 2: Sawyer is very good on a.
Speaker 1: He did a lot better against against Jack Sawyer or
Speaker 1: not Jack Sawyer. It was the Georgia tape, so they
Speaker 1: played Georgia in the regular season. Yeah, and he was
Speaker 1: a lot better in that tape than he was later
Speaker 1: in the College Football playoff. Still not like in love
Speaker 1: with him, But that's a thing too. I meant to
Speaker 1: bring up. With the tackles, It's hard in this class
Speaker 1: to me to find a Day two tackle that I love.
Speaker 1: I don't really, I'm not crazy about any of them.
Speaker 1: I think Josh Connery is the best out of that
Speaker 1: next way, but I think he's gonna go late first
Speaker 1: same but has all the issues that big hulking tackles
Speaker 1: like that have with his foot speed.
Speaker 2: You think he has a franchise starter upside.
Speaker 1: I do. I think he can start in the league.
Speaker 1: I left tackle just because guys that big that have
Speaker 1: his movement, but it's weird. His movement like translates the
Speaker 1: run games, but he's not as graceful in pass protection.
Speaker 1: He's a lot more lumbering when he's in his past set.
Speaker 1: When he's run blocking, he's like really athletic for his size.
Speaker 1: In pass protection not so much. And then you get
Speaker 1: to like that Donovan Jackson from Ohio State is a
Speaker 1: guard guard, not a tackle. He looks like a guard
Speaker 1: playing tackle through and through on his film all over
Speaker 1: the place. You know, guard guard, Wilett Milam, guard Center
Speaker 1: Center potentially. You know, so this year, last year you
Speaker 1: had that Kingsley, Siu, Mattia, Patrick, Paul Roger, Rose and
Speaker 1: Garden like you had a nice little day too tier
Speaker 1: in there. Obviously, the Patriots ended up taking Kid and
Speaker 1: Wallace with the last of that tier. This year, I
Speaker 1: don't think that that depth is as strong as tackle
Speaker 1: as it was last year, probably because you don't have
Speaker 1: the Alts and the Fashanus and the J. C. Latham's
Speaker 1: and the those guys pushing them down.
Speaker 2: I will say this though, the run on tackles is
Speaker 2: the theory I have. The run on tackles last year
Speaker 2: was not an anomaly because there's such a shortage at
Speaker 2: the position. I think this is gonna become a norm.
Speaker 2: Once the tackles start going, they're gonna go. And so
Speaker 2: some of those guys you just mentioned, like maybe we
Speaker 2: don't love, but they're gonna go higher than we think.
Speaker 2: I think this is until we get balanced back out
Speaker 2: in this tackle shortage ends, which when that's gonna be.
Speaker 2: I think this is going to become a thing where
Speaker 2: we're gonna start seeing tackles go much earlier than we expect,
Speaker 2: and we're gonna see these runs on that position on
Speaker 2: Day two. Hopefully the Patriots don't miss it this year.
Speaker 2: They missed it last year, but I don't think that
Speaker 2: was an anomaly. I think that that's going to kind
Speaker 2: of become the norm.
Speaker 1: Next storyline here for me. Yeah, I mentioned it briefly before,
Speaker 1: but all eyes are gonna be on Travis Hunter's podium
Speaker 1: when he goes up there and he answers questions about
Speaker 1: what position he wants to play, what position he's going
Speaker 1: to play. Teams obviously privately are gonna have conversations with
Speaker 1: him about their plan and their vision for how they
Speaker 1: would use him in the NFL. It's a big week
Speaker 1: for Travis Hunter to present himself in this way and
Speaker 1: kind of make his pitch to play both publicly and
Speaker 1: more importantly privately of how he wants to be used
Speaker 1: at the next level. I released my tears, like I
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, with the wide receivers. I still think Travis
Speaker 1: Hunter is the best receiver in the class. I've been
Speaker 1: pretty consistent with that. I would play him at wide receiver.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's a little bit of Patriots biased because that's
Speaker 1: the bigger needs.
Speaker 2: I think it happens on the team.
Speaker 1: I would play my wide receiver period.
Speaker 2: What if you're like in, he's not a fall as far,
Speaker 2: but like if you're the Eagles who were loaded wide receiver.
Speaker 1: In corners, like I guess, Like, yeah, I guess at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, you want to be really
Speaker 1: specific about it.
Speaker 2: How many team's gonna have a shot at him five
Speaker 2: if we're being generous?
Speaker 1: If so, what at all? It's And I've had the
Speaker 1: same take on him the whole time. What it comes
Speaker 1: down to with Travis Hunter is where is what is?
Speaker 1: How is he going to be more impactful for your
Speaker 1: football team? And I just personally feel like he'd be
Speaker 1: more impactful playing wide receiver. I think that that's a given.
Speaker 1: Like you know, and everybody keeps on throwing at me
Speaker 1: because I'm you know, big Will Campbell guy. You know
Speaker 1: what Dante Scarnecki has said about scoring touchdowns or sacking
Speaker 1: the quarterback Where is covering receivers in that equation? Right?
Speaker 2: This is a guy that scores.
Speaker 1: Touchdowns on offense, had sixteen of them last year, and
Speaker 1: with Colorado, this is a guy that mixed big plays
Speaker 1: on offense with the ball in his hands at the
Speaker 1: catch point. He is a very very good receiver. Is
Speaker 1: he a better corner on film? Yeah? Probably? But like again,
Speaker 1: where is he gonna make the biggest impact on the
Speaker 1: football team. It's gonna be a wide receiver. I'm interested,
Speaker 1: really interested to hear what he says about it. He's
Speaker 1: listed as a defensive back. I don't want to look
Speaker 1: too much into that.
Speaker 2: I think that's just logistics.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll see what happens. You know what he says.
Speaker 1: But the Travis Hunter of it all is a big
Speaker 1: time storyline.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna throw one more kind of substoryline in that.
Speaker 2: And you wrote about this guy too. He's not the
Speaker 2: only one that I think the position question is relevant. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Savian Williams.
Speaker 1: I like Savon Williams a lot, but I too, I'm
Speaker 1: terrified that's so not your guy. Well, you also like
Speaker 1: Trey Harris. What is going on with you? I'm terrified
Speaker 1: of Savian Williams would.
Speaker 2: Be, but you should like him and be terrified of him.
Speaker 1: I the thing with save On Williams, and I put
Speaker 1: him in that like role specific tier because I think
Speaker 1: that's what it is. You have to have a creative
Speaker 1: plan and usage. It's a lot. We talk about this
Speaker 1: all the time with like like John new Smith and
Speaker 1: things like that.
Speaker 2: Now Johnny Wilson.
Speaker 1: The difference between him and like a John new Smith
Speaker 1: with Josh McDaniels is Josh McDaniels had Cordeal Patterson and
Speaker 1: made Corderill Patterson a viable player for the Patriots in
Speaker 1: what eighteen was that seventeen eighteen? He won a Super
Speaker 1: Bowl right somewhere around there, No, when we were covering
Speaker 1: the team, So I want to say it was eighteen
Speaker 1: because he had the kickerturn in Chicago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, eighteen eighteen.
Speaker 1: So they were a step ahead on Cordeal Patterson running back,
Speaker 1: like they I they should take credit for that. They
Speaker 1: did it first. They put him at running back first.
Speaker 1: So if you see a guy like saving I'm not
Speaker 1: taking Savion Williams and expecting him to be any sort
Speaker 1: of savior. I'm not take I don't even know if
Speaker 1: i'd take him in the top one hundred. But if
Speaker 1: he if he's there at like one oh four for
Speaker 1: them in the fourth.
Speaker 2: Round, brainer, no brainer.
Speaker 1: I think he's a big time playmaker, and I think
Speaker 1: he's a little bit more fluid than Cordele Patterson. Maybe
Speaker 1: not as explosive in a straight line, but like, I
Speaker 1: feel like his route running, he's got a little bit
Speaker 1: more like sink and wiggle to his game.
Speaker 2: I'll be interested to see if he does any of
Speaker 2: the running back on field drills. Yeah, that would be
Speaker 2: interesting and I think that would tell us a lot.
Speaker 2: I figure he's gonna go He's listed as a receiver, right,
Speaker 2: I believe, so he's going to go through that and
Speaker 2: I expect him to the receiver drills and that'll be
Speaker 2: interesting too, because like his route running is a big question.
Speaker 1: But yeah, his hands, his hands are terrible. That I
Speaker 1: think is the biggest question.
Speaker 2: Does he do any of the there's a chance the
Speaker 2: gauntlet is ugly if he goes through the So you
Speaker 2: know he's gone to the gauntlet too, don't they do they?
Speaker 1: I don't remember. I think so he's a body catcher.
Speaker 1: He's got bad drops on film, like he's got some
Speaker 1: bad drops on film that like almost lead to interceptions,
Speaker 1: you know, like they just like bounce off his hands
Speaker 1: and pop up in the air and guys are around
Speaker 1: the ball. So you are you need to scheme touches
Speaker 1: for this guy, right, you need to get this player
Speaker 1: into space. But if they let him, you know, they
Speaker 1: use him like Patterson with the Patriots at the end
Speaker 1: there with Patterson, I think there's a chance that he's
Speaker 1: a viable player for you, like an offensive weapon. It's
Speaker 1: just gonna have to be creative. So that's a good one.
Speaker 1: Good shout up With Savan Williams. You're surprised I like him.
Speaker 2: I like, that's not your like fun, he's fun. He's fun.
Speaker 1: To be clear with Trey Harris, because you a couple
Speaker 1: of people brought this up to me. I like Trey Harris,
Speaker 1: but I'm not that's not my kind of guy. And
Speaker 1: like I'm if I had to bang the table for
Speaker 1: anybody in that tier, wouldn't be Trey Harris. But I
Speaker 1: watched his film and I was like, Okay, I can
Speaker 1: see it, Like I can see the ability there. A
Speaker 1: lot of his his yards and a lot of his
Speaker 1: big time production came against garbage defenses. But regardless, you know,
Speaker 1: you can see the movement and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: I told you, I think my favorite guy from from
Speaker 1: that tier, other than the one other guy I want
Speaker 1: to bring up in a second, is probably Jalen noele
Speaker 1: Uh from you. I think that, you know, he's probably
Speaker 1: the best receiver in my mind in that group. But
Speaker 1: so Travis Hunter, we did the last one. You're gonna love.
Speaker 1: You're gonna love this one, and then you can.
Speaker 2: Be Tes Johnson's forty, I think he can break I.
Speaker 1: Think I think he's gonna break the record. So I
Speaker 1: shouldn't say I think he's gonna break it. I think
Speaker 1: he has a chance to break it. I think it's
Speaker 1: worth watching.
Speaker 2: I have I had your two guys, Tes Johnson, Isaiah
Speaker 2: Bond Yeah, on my list of players to watch. And
Speaker 2: I'll tell you why. What's the question I ask you
Speaker 2: every time you bring them up? Fast and what?
Speaker 1: So let's see the teds Johnson's not just fast.
Speaker 2: Let's see the gauntlet. I don't care so much about
Speaker 2: the ford. I mean the forty will be interesting if Tes.
Speaker 1: Johnes Tess Johnson's quick.
Speaker 2: Well, so I'm saying, let's see the Gauntlet. Let's see
Speaker 2: the three cone. Yeah, if he does, let's see the shuttle.
Speaker 1: People aren't doing three cones anymore.
Speaker 2: Let's see the shuttle then, yeah, the gauntlet will be
Speaker 2: telling like that. Let's see him and Bond. Let's see
Speaker 2: how they do in those in those. And with Tesz
Speaker 2: Johnson to especially, I know he measured it at the
Speaker 2: Senior Bowl. Did he put any more weight on? Did
Speaker 2: he hear the noise and put any more weight on?
Speaker 2: Between then and now?
Speaker 1: The problem with Tedes Johnson in terms of waight, and
Speaker 1: I haven't thought on Isaiah Bond too. The problem with
Speaker 1: Tesz Johnson is that I don't know if his frame
Speaker 1: can support any more weight, Like he's only five nine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well that's so like you just here's who he is,
Speaker 1: Like he's too too out, well, at worst, he's tanked.
Speaker 1: At best, does he stay healthy? I don't know, right, Like, well, if.
Speaker 2: You're gonna use top forty pi kind of guy, which
Speaker 2: is probably where they would need to take him, you
Speaker 2: kind of need him to stay healthy.
Speaker 1: He I think he's faster on film than Isaiah Bond
Speaker 1: is Isaiah Bond's got that like gliding vertical speed right
Speaker 1: where like when he runs a fade, it just builds
Speaker 1: builds builds, and all of a sudden, he's buy you.
Speaker 1: Tedes Johnson is like blistering fast like he is quick, fast, agile,
Speaker 1: all of it. He pops off the film. In terms
Speaker 1: of his game speed, it's different than everybody else on
Speaker 1: the tape. So I think Ted Johnson has a real
Speaker 1: chance to break the record that Xavier Worthy just put down,
Speaker 1: which is what four to two to one, all right,
Speaker 1: So I think he has a real chance to break it.
Speaker 1: If he doesn't run in the four twos, I'd be shocked.
Speaker 1: He's gonna run the four two so he's gonna put
Speaker 1: down a really good time. I'm excited to watch him run.
Speaker 1: I love Tedes Johnson. I know he's gonna get hurt.
Speaker 1: I know it's not gonna last in the league. I
Speaker 1: know he'd get drafted by the Patriots. They get a
Speaker 1: month into the season, he'd have like three hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty yards and three touchdowns, like three games into his
Speaker 1: Patriots career, and then blow out his leg and like,
Speaker 1: you know, it'll be Malcolm Mitchell all over again or something.
Speaker 1: I understand. But if it all, if you can somehow
Speaker 1: stay healthy. That guy is a difference making receiver.
Speaker 2: That is a gift.
Speaker 1: That's a big if, but he is a big time
Speaker 1: playmaker if he stays healthy. Okay, what else you got?
Speaker 2: I think we pretty much hit on everything. Just we
Speaker 2: talked about the tie breakers. That pass rush group from
Speaker 2: like twenty to fifty. Yeah, is so crowded.
Speaker 1: Yep, so just kind of so as well take one
Speaker 1: at four.
Speaker 2: Right right, sorting some of those guys out. Well, if it's.
Speaker 1: Carter besides Carter, Carter, Carter was the exception, the last
Speaker 1: one that I had here. It's gonna surprise you a
Speaker 1: little bit. I am mildly intrigued by this running back class.
Speaker 2: You should be.
Speaker 1: The strength of this draft on offense is that running
Speaker 1: back and tight end. I think both those positions are
Speaker 1: gonna put on absolute shows. Yes, and this combine I
Speaker 1: think they not only is it the strength in terms
Speaker 1: of just there's great talent and depth of those two positions.
Speaker 1: I think they're great athletes at those two positions as well.
Speaker 1: So I think this is gonna be a combined group
Speaker 1: in both categories. A couple of guys I'm looking out.
Speaker 2: For evan running backs to watch. Let's hear this.
Speaker 1: I love Omarin Hampton. He's gonna go high. He's probably
Speaker 1: gonna go first round. So he might be way out of.
Speaker 2: The page that I think that's coming from me.
Speaker 1: I think he might be RB two in this class.
Speaker 2: Shouldn't be. He might be. You're right, he shouldn't be,
Speaker 2: but he might be.
Speaker 1: He's very very good.
Speaker 2: Shout out to it, as Jeremiah right. With three running
Speaker 2: backs in the round. That's how you do a mock draft.
Speaker 1: I have to think that. Two things I keep. I
Speaker 1: say it all the time. With him, I'm biased because
Speaker 1: I saw him at run routes at Drake Mace pro Day.
Speaker 1: I loved what I saw, and I think Drake loves him.
Speaker 1: So there's gonna be that element of it. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: probably high, too high for running back. Who's the running
Speaker 1: back from Kansas.
Speaker 2: The Neil Devin.
Speaker 1: Neil is the other guy at the Senior Bowl. I
Speaker 1: was really impressed with really good burst to the edge.
Speaker 1: I think he's gonna put down maybe not like the
Speaker 1: greatest forty time, but like those ten yards.
Speaker 2: More good ten yards play.
Speaker 1: He gets agility. I think he's really smooth with the
Speaker 1: football as well. So those are the two running backs.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's obviously one hundred running backs, but on
Speaker 1: the top of my list.
Speaker 2: I'm still fascinated. I can't get over all e Gorton.
Speaker 2: Alli Gordon's twenty twenty three at Oklahoma State was so dominant.
Speaker 2: He was so good, and I know he took the
Speaker 2: step back last year, but just looking at it and
Speaker 2: the big picture of what Oklahoma State football was last year,
Speaker 2: he was never in a position to succeed last season,
Speaker 2: and I got it frustrated him and all of that.
Speaker 2: He is a rare build at that position. He's faster
Speaker 2: than people realize because he's so big. I don't think
Speaker 2: people like he doesn't look as fast on tape as
Speaker 2: he actually is. And is he James White. No, but
Speaker 2: he's functional as a pass catcher.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like I just think he has so many great traits
Speaker 2: and we've seen him a bell cow back like he
Speaker 2: he was that Oklahoma State team in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: Right now, I'm seeing projections for him anywhere from you know,
Speaker 2: very late day two to I think PFF. Hasn't it
Speaker 2: like one fifty? Yeah, if you can get Ali Gordon
Speaker 2: at like one oh four, that would be an outstanding pick.
Speaker 2: But I think he's gonna have a really good combine
Speaker 2: and maybe blow that up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, look, all these running backs are worth
Speaker 1: talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's even get to we didn't even get to
Speaker 2: Scatabow and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's a great class. Like just to
Speaker 1: read quickly here if I can pull it up. You know,
Speaker 1: Dan Brugler's top one hundred ad just at running back.
Speaker 1: I mean there's there's got what atching gent y. Caleb
Speaker 1: Johnson from Iowa was really good.
Speaker 2: He could be.
Speaker 1: Trayvon Henderson from Ohio State, Jordan James Jenkins from Ohio State,
Speaker 1: Dylan Samson, R. J. Harvey is his top one hundred.
Speaker 1: I mean it's not every year they have won two, three, four, five, six,
Speaker 1: seven eight in the top one pop.
Speaker 2: We're gonna tell you that's because a week it's a
Speaker 2: week class. That's not true. This running bad class holds
Speaker 2: up in other years. A lot of people have Henderson
Speaker 2: over Judkins.
Speaker 1: A lot of people do.
Speaker 2: I don't know about that. I think Henderson if you
Speaker 2: want a guy to be, you know, sturdy, reliable, four
Speaker 2: yards four yards four yards, Like, he doesn't lose yards,
Speaker 2: he doesn't go down easy, He's consistent, all that. Like,
Speaker 2: that's Henderson and there's value in that player. If you
Speaker 2: want a guy who's gonna like a home run hitter,
Speaker 2: a guy's gonna break big runs, guys more explosive, a
Speaker 2: little more dynamic, it's Judkins. So if we're ranking like
Speaker 2: the safer of the two, it's Henderson. But like, let's
Speaker 2: say the Patriots are on the board A sixty nine,
Speaker 2: they want to take a running back there between the
Speaker 2: two Ohio State guys, I'm taking Judkins. You're taking Judkins
Speaker 2: between the two of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I tend to agree with you based off of
Speaker 1: the playoff too. I thought that he looked like a
Speaker 1: game changer.
Speaker 2: There's a place for Henderson. Henderson's really good too. But
Speaker 2: you know, if you want to try to copycat league, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: if you're trying to find the next Saquon Barkley, and
Speaker 2: I'm not saying Gwin, John Judkins is Saquon Barkley, you're
Speaker 2: trying to find that kind of back. Judkins is much
Speaker 2: closer than Henderson is to me.
Speaker 1: So running back tight end, Yeah, tight end again another
Speaker 1: position that's absolutely loaded in this draft. I think there's
Speaker 1: playmaking tight ends, there's blocking tight ends. There's like guys
Speaker 1: that can kind of do a little bit of both,
Speaker 1: like Tyler Warren, and there's also just straight up receiving
Speaker 1: tight ends, you know, like a Colston Loveland if you
Speaker 1: want to go first round. But then beyond that, I
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of guys that are also in
Speaker 1: that categories, those two categories, and it's become like is
Speaker 1: he the Gronk archetype or is he the Kelsey archetype? Right,
Speaker 1: Like those are like the two groups of tight ends.
Speaker 1: This class has them all the guy that I'm really ok.
Speaker 2: And then there's the Kittle type.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yes, you're right, but people don't give Kittle
Speaker 1: enough love.
Speaker 2: No, but like that more like h back movie. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the guy that in funny that you mentioned that,
Speaker 1: the guy that I'm really interested to see. I wasn't wow,
Speaker 1: like I wanted to be at the Senior Bowl. So
Speaker 1: I'm interested to see Harold Fannin's testing. The fact that
Speaker 1: I get it was at Bowling Green and I get
Speaker 1: they probably didn't play this like Murderer's Row of a schedule.
Speaker 2: He did you have a really good game? Who they
Speaker 2: played one Power five team? He was good. I think
Speaker 2: it was a and.
Speaker 1: M but fifteen hundred yards at tight end in college
Speaker 1: football is unheard of, Like, that's absolutely unheard of. I
Speaker 1: think he's gonna be a great athlete as well. You know,
Speaker 1: obviously Elijah Royo is coming off the Great Senior Bowl,
Speaker 1: but I think that he is kind of like a
Speaker 1: finesse tight end. Like I think that's gonna be a
Speaker 1: setting where he's gonna do really well. In Mason Taylor
Speaker 1: similar you know, just say Jason Taylor. I always get
Speaker 1: Jonathan Taylor and JA Jason, Jason Taylor's son also more
Speaker 1: of like a pass catching tight end, but he's really
Speaker 1: really athletic as well, you know, Gunner Hilm, like this,
Speaker 1: this is a really good class. It's a really good
Speaker 1: class at that position, and I think that they'll also impress.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm interested to see nesbit. Like I get, he
Speaker 2: had a rough year and that knocks him down some.
Speaker 2: I'm surprised he's been knocked down as far as he has,
Speaker 2: so I'll be interested to see if he can build
Speaker 2: that back up at all.
Speaker 1: All Right, So that's the combine. I'm sure we'll have
Speaker 1: by questions about the combine, but I want to get
Speaker 1: to your calls and your emails and the emails Barth
Speaker 1: are just I mean, we're inundated with the emails, so
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Speaker 1: furniture store, the official furniture store of the New England Patriots.
Speaker 1: There we go, All right, let's get to these phone calls.
Speaker 1: I know you guys have been waiting. Patty is an aguam.
Speaker 1: What's up, Patty?
Speaker 3: What's going on?
Speaker 1: How are we doing.
Speaker 3: Doing good today? So I had a question for you guys.
Speaker 3: I one of the guys that I'm very much intrigued
Speaker 3: by is the wide receiver for Iowa State. Not Jalen Noel,
Speaker 3: but Jayden Higgins.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: I will love him as a Day two pick, but
Speaker 3: if we're not able to get him, I wanted to
Speaker 3: get your guys opinions on possibly three possibly three Day
Speaker 3: three guys, have you watched them? If you have, what
Speaker 3: do you think about him? The first guy is Damuel Brown,
Speaker 3: the second guy is Kyron Lazy from LSU, and the
Speaker 3: last guy is Elijah Badger from Florida. And I'll take
Speaker 3: it off there, guys, as always, sorry about the joy.
Speaker 1: It's okay. You got any takes on those guys? Those
Speaker 1: are deep cuts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Kyen Lacey has some that was the LC receiver. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't remember the exact details, but he has some
Speaker 2: serious legal issues, Like he's not.
Speaker 1: There's some I mean, I don't know if what with
Speaker 1: Keishan Boudi was serious. But from a player perspective, he
Speaker 1: kind of reminds me of like the guy that was
Speaker 1: supposed to be the next guy at LSU that wasn't
Speaker 1: the next guy for whatever reason at LSU. Kind of
Speaker 1: a similar story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was there, there was He's accused of head
Speaker 2: on crash, fatal crash, hit and run, leaving the scene
Speaker 2: of a crime. Yeah that's yeah, So Kyraen Lacey, I
Speaker 2: probably I would be surprised at this point if he
Speaker 2: gets drafted.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Who are the other wide receivers?
Speaker 1: He said, I don't I didn't recognize the other ones.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie, he said.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to pull up the list here because if
Speaker 2: I see it, I'll remember it. He said something thing
Speaker 2: he didn't give the school for one of them. I
Speaker 2: know we set somebody from Florida.
Speaker 1: This is great radio.
Speaker 2: I don't think it was chim DK, but you saw
Speaker 2: a DK at the Senior Bowl who I liked. He
Speaker 2: was a Day three guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, some of those drops, but some of those senior
Speaker 1: Bowl guys. I know your guys.
Speaker 2: Call Elijah Badger. Yeah, we're gonna gover Florida receivers. I
Speaker 2: like DK.
Speaker 1: All right, let's take Sean and Ottawa. What's up Sean?
Speaker 2: Sean?
Speaker 1: You there? Okay? Sean callback and if if you have
Speaker 1: the time, he's probably afraid of USA Canada tomorrow. N
Speaker 1: I didn't want to talk to us Americans. Uh, let's
Speaker 1: get to these emails. A lot of emails, tons of emails.
Speaker 1: So we'll try to get through all these over the
Speaker 1: last half hour here of the show. Starting here. Well,
Speaker 1: I'll start with this email. All right. This email subject
Speaker 1: line is from Floyd in Michigan, who's a regular listener.
Speaker 1: Shout out Taylor Kyles says, Taylor Kyles was right. Taylor
Speaker 1: and I have been going back and forth a little
Speaker 1: bit on Twitter. We see this draft very differently. Love Taylor,
Speaker 1: I love him. We just see it very very differently.
Speaker 1: And and Floyd here says that he agrees with this
Speaker 1: point that Taylor made, and that was my issue is
Speaker 1: anytime I have seen Will Campbell bock to the Patriots,
Speaker 1: it is not because he's the best player available. It's
Speaker 1: not because he's the best scheme fit. It's because their
Speaker 1: offensive line was is so terrible, so it just they
Speaker 1: need an offensive lineman. He's the best offensive lineman scheme
Speaker 1: fit aside. I don't know exactly what that, but in
Speaker 1: terms of he's not the best player available, we kind
Speaker 1: of talked about this earlier in the show. I just
Speaker 1: want us to think about it and think about the gap,
Speaker 1: like how much is the gap really that exists? And
Speaker 1: if we're talking about players that are all clustered together,
Speaker 1: which is the way that I view it, Will Campbell,
Speaker 1: Mason Graham, I'll even throw Ted McMillan into that category.
Speaker 1: Potentially warrant I would throw into that category. You put
Speaker 1: all those guys, you know, Will Johnson into that tier.
Speaker 1: To me, the tiebreaker then becomes positional value. So you
Speaker 1: might think that Mason Graham is a slightly better prospect
Speaker 1: than Will Campbell, But I would say if you project
Speaker 1: Will Campbell to be a starting left tackle in the NFL,
Speaker 1: that is more valuable than a starting three technique is
Speaker 1: in the NFL.
Speaker 2: It's essentially all you know.
Speaker 1: It's also I should say a conversation two of Okay, well,
Speaker 1: what's going to be available through other avenues of talent acquisition.
Speaker 1: You can go and sign Milton Williams to play three technique.
Speaker 1: You can go and draft the kid from Toledo, Darius Alexander,
Speaker 1: to play three technique. On day two. You can go
Speaker 1: and draft you know, players like that on the second
Speaker 1: day of the drag on the edge. If you want
Speaker 1: to go that route. What you can't do is find
Speaker 1: a starting left tackle on Day two. I have not
Speaker 1: been I've watched fifteen tackles at this point between the
Speaker 1: Senior Bowl and like watching the film, I have not
Speaker 1: been convinced that any one of these guys in that
Speaker 1: Day two tier is going to be a true starting
Speaker 1: left tackle in the league. I think you're putting him
Speaker 1: right in that same category as a Caiden Wallace like
Speaker 1: has it. Maybe the Patriots can't afford has answer. They
Speaker 1: need an answer. So sure, you could go in free
Speaker 1: agency and sign Cam robinsoner Alaric Jackson and say we
Speaker 1: have our answer. That direction, that's a pat they want
Speaker 1: to go. They can go in that direction. But if
Speaker 1: we're strictly talking about the draft, the strength of the
Speaker 1: draft is the depth on the defensive line. So to me,
Speaker 1: if you're even ish between Mason Graham and Will Campbell,
Speaker 1: I'm taking the left tackle. It's that simple.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm with you, all right.
Speaker 1: Mike Green is another prospect that's come up a lot.
Speaker 1: So there's a couple of things I would say about
Speaker 1: with Mike Green. You know a lot of people. Is
Speaker 1: Mike Green actually edged two in this class? Obviously I'm
Speaker 1: dull Carter's edge one? Is Mike Green actually edged two
Speaker 1: in this class? The two things I had mentioned with
Speaker 1: Mike Green One, he is really a pass rush specialist,
Speaker 1: Like you are going to have to make him into
Speaker 1: a pure weak side pass rusher that is not expected
Speaker 1: to do really anything against the run. He's not a
Speaker 1: very good run defender in my mind, just because of
Speaker 1: his physical limitations. Like we talk about lack of arm
Speaker 1: length and stuff like that with Will Campbell, even though
Speaker 1: I would say that first step, explosiveness and bend are
Speaker 1: more important than arm length at edge. In order to
Speaker 1: like truly set the edge of a defense right, you
Speaker 1: have to be able to have some girth and some
Speaker 1: with to your body, and then obviously some length to
Speaker 1: your body as well.
Speaker 2: But that's a lot of the edge rushers in this class.
Speaker 1: Lot of speed guys.
Speaker 2: A lot of guys who are pass rushers and aren't
Speaker 2: going to do great against.
Speaker 1: So he's one of those guys. To me, if you're
Speaker 1: drafting somebody four overall, you need to make sure that
Speaker 1: player is a three down, all purpose player. I don't
Speaker 1: think you can draft a guy at four overall that's
Speaker 1: gonna end up turning into just a pass rusher. I
Speaker 1: don't think that that's good enough with that pick. There's
Speaker 1: also so I don't want to put it out there
Speaker 1: like an act, like it's too dramatic, but like he
Speaker 1: transferred from Virginia, there's some rumblings that maybe there was
Speaker 1: something that happened in that transfer, you know, in terms
Speaker 1: of him overstaying. He's welcome at Virginia. I don't know
Speaker 1: what the details are enough to have a judgment on that.
Speaker 1: I hate judging that part of the draft because I
Speaker 1: don't know these guys personally and I don't talk to
Speaker 1: them personally. But there are some things to vet there
Speaker 1: with his background in terms of that. Yeah, But most
Speaker 1: importantly to me, I'm just not dead convinced that Mike
Speaker 1: Green is a well rounded enough player to be taking
Speaker 1: him that high in the first round.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you, all right, does we can't
Speaker 2: go in the first round. It's not that high.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So this is from Aiden. He's asking for two
Speaker 1: trade candidates. Our opinions on two trade candidates, one being
Speaker 1: Michael Mayer from the Raiders, which is becoming a really
Speaker 1: popular take. They have Brock Bowers obviously as their number
Speaker 1: one tight end. Josh McDaniels drafted Michael Mayer, I believe
Speaker 1: in his year with the Raiders, I.
Speaker 2: Think sounds right mayor was.
Speaker 1: Yeah Sam laporta draft Yeah, so I'm pretty sure that's
Speaker 1: the case. If not, he played for Josh McDaniel.
Speaker 2: Or was he twenty three mc daniels was.
Speaker 1: There in Vegas. The other one is Trey Hendrickson at
Speaker 1: the Bengals, who are maybe paying t Higgins, maybe paying
Speaker 1: Jamar Chase, obviously already paying Joe Burrow. So someone there
Speaker 1: most likely is gonna have to be the Ottoman out.
Speaker 1: It could be Trey Hendrickson. I'm in on both of
Speaker 1: these players. Obviously very different price points, like in terms
Speaker 1: of what the compensation would be, but I think Michael
Speaker 1: Mayer would be a nice tight end too. I remember
Speaker 1: coming out. I actually I think Hunter Henry was my
Speaker 1: comp for Michael Mayor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think that that was the player. Mayor's
Speaker 2: a good blocker. I I wouldn't be against Michael Mayor.
Speaker 2: I think the idea of four to six from like
Speaker 2: moving down two spots and getting Michael Mayer. I think
Speaker 2: you should get more back in that trade, especially in
Speaker 2: this draft when they were good tight ends. He would
Speaker 2: need something else on top of that, But as a whole,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't mind Mayor. Hendrickson obviously should be a target
Speaker 2: if he's available. They need that pass rusher. He's a
Speaker 2: great fit. In Mike Rabel's defense, I think he's a
Speaker 2: great personality fit for the culture Mike Vrabel wants to bring.
Speaker 2: That being said, I'm not ruling out the Bengals keeping
Speaker 2: all of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Joe Burrow has been very public about wanting to keep everybody.
Speaker 2: Talking to people in Cincinnati, it sounds like he's been
Speaker 2: as forceful behind the scenes and putting the pressure on ownership.
Speaker 2: And if people say, oh, you know, they only have
Speaker 2: so much money to spend, well, if Burrow's willing to
Speaker 2: take a pay cut or just move it even just
Speaker 2: move his money around. The cap can be manipulated, as
Speaker 2: we know. I'm not ruling out them keeping all of
Speaker 2: those guys, but if Hendrickson's available, Patriots should be on it.
Speaker 1: Only like a little bit with Hendrickson is he is
Speaker 1: thirty and he you know, he's going to be going
Speaker 1: into his thirty one age thirty one season. I just
Speaker 1: do think that that matters for the Patriots in terms
Speaker 1: of windows and stuff like that. You could get Trey
Speaker 1: Hendrickson for this year and he would obviously give you
Speaker 1: a big boost for this year. But like as Trey
Speaker 1: Hendrickson really going to be around for when the Patriots
Speaker 1: are truly good again, like not just like flashing the pan,
Speaker 1: good again, like twenty twenty one Patriots, you know, make
Speaker 1: a playoff run because you know, you get a week
Speaker 1: schedule and I have decent quarterback play again in the defense,
Speaker 1: like I'm talking about contending, Yeah, consistently.
Speaker 2: He might be. I mean some of these edge rushers
Speaker 2: are starting to play like longer now. This is kind
Speaker 2: of a trend that's started to happen. These guys are
Speaker 2: still effective players, they're in their mid thirties. If he's
Speaker 2: here for another three years. Yeah, he could be there
Speaker 2: at the start of their true contention window.
Speaker 1: He reminds me a little bit of Judon just in
Speaker 1: terms of play style and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: So I'm not anti Trey Henderson. I just I just wondered,
Speaker 1: you know, at thirty one years old. All right, Next
Speaker 1: question here from Andrew who says he's a long time listener,
Speaker 1: second time emailer. You usually hear first time emailer, but
Speaker 1: second time email he is a pretty long winded email.
Speaker 1: But I saw just narrow it down. Basically, he's asking
Speaker 1: what this coaching staff, the new Patriots coaching staff, like,
Speaker 1: what position do we feel that they will be best
Speaker 1: at developing on the roster based off of their coaching staff.
Speaker 1: You know, he mentioned Jeff Stallin in Philly with the Eagles,
Speaker 1: their offensive line coach, who is kind of like a
Speaker 1: Dante Scarneki type figure there in Philadelphia and is able
Speaker 1: to develop linemen. I would still say front seven guys
Speaker 1: like I really trust Rabel and Terrell Williams, Like, if
Speaker 1: they got a toolsy front seven player wherever it is
Speaker 1: in the draft, I really feel strongly that those two
Speaker 1: guys would develop that player into a really good player.
Speaker 1: You know, whether it's Abdul Carter, it's somebody you know
Speaker 1: on Day two of the draft that has some really
Speaker 1: flashy tools. I wouldn't necessarily say I would draft. You know,
Speaker 1: good example I think is like mikel Williams from Georgia, right,
Speaker 1: who is just a raw toolsy Trayvon Walker ish prospect
Speaker 1: that's just a ball of clay. I wouldn't necessarily do
Speaker 1: at the top of the draft just because of where
Speaker 1: the Patriots are, but just in general, I would feel
Speaker 1: pretty comfortable with drafting traits on the defensive line because
Speaker 1: I'd have pretty good confidence in Rabel and Terrell Williams
Speaker 1: to develop that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's defensive front too, that's where most
Speaker 2: of the experiences, you know, linebackers, line and all of that.
Speaker 2: I'd agree with that.
Speaker 1: Yep. So this email is from Ron and he says congratulations,
Speaker 1: and he says that he is so happy that Alex
Speaker 1: is going to the Combine this year, and so I
Speaker 1: can just now is a good time to say this
Speaker 1: Because of that, We're gonna do a live show from
Speaker 1: the Combine next week on Radio Row in the Indianapolis
Speaker 1: Convention Center. So Alex and I it sounds like it
Speaker 1: will be Wednesday afternoon. I don't think it's public gets.
Speaker 1: I won't get into all the scheduling details, but I
Speaker 1: do think we're gonna hear from Mike Rabel and Elliot
Speaker 1: Wolf next year, next year, next week in Indianapolis. So
Speaker 1: we're gonna do it later on in the afternoon just
Speaker 1: to make sure we've already heard from everybody and we
Speaker 1: can kind of react to it and all that good stuff.
Speaker 1: But a live radio Row show from the Combine, we've
Speaker 1: made it. There we go. I feel like this is
Speaker 1: like something that we've wanted to do for.
Speaker 2: A very long time time in the making.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. So the other question that that Ron here
Speaker 1: has just about some of the Day two guys. He
Speaker 1: mentions Ursery, who he talked a little bit about.
Speaker 2: I don't think he's a Day two guy at this point.
Speaker 1: And Landon Jackson, who had a nice end of the
Speaker 1: week at the Singer Bowl, a big, you know, defensive
Speaker 1: end outside linebacker type. And eighty five.
Speaker 2: Now there's there's your edge center, there's your run stopper
Speaker 2: on the edge. That's he's kind of the opposite of
Speaker 2: a lot of these guys we've talked about where he's
Speaker 2: not quite there yet as a pass rusher. I think
Speaker 2: he's a three down player, but his pass rush room
Speaker 2: game has room to grow. His run game is what
Speaker 2: makes him so impressive at this point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he's a little bit too like Anthony
Speaker 1: Jennings in my mind, like you already had that player
Speaker 1: kind of yeah, see that.
Speaker 2: I mean, if they were going to stay in the
Speaker 2: old defense, I would say, is a replacement for Dietrich
Speaker 2: Wise if he's not back. Yeah, you know, you could
Speaker 2: have him put on ten pounds and play him hand down.
Speaker 2: But if they're going to be this, you know, quicker,
Speaker 2: smaller defense than he had, Jennings is in that role.
Speaker 1: So with er three, I mentioned you know already a
Speaker 1: little bit about Er three. I like Ersrie, I don't
Speaker 1: love Erstrie. I think the big thing with Ersrie to
Speaker 1: me is just that he's just gonna have those natural
Speaker 1: physical limitations of a six foot six, three hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty pound person, right, Like, he's just not a nimble mover.
Speaker 1: Uh he's maybe you could put him as nimble mover
Speaker 1: for his size, but we're not. Then we're putting that
Speaker 1: caveat on for his size, right. So he had some
Speaker 1: of those stiffness in his lowers and just like foot heaviness,
Speaker 1: you know, not exactly a light footed guy. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, you know, can't teach size, can't teach strength.
Speaker 1: Very good difference maker in the run game. I actually thought,
Speaker 1: you know, he had some like one or two ugly
Speaker 1: reps against Abdul Carter, But I thought he kind of
Speaker 1: competed in that game against Abdul Carter, which is probably
Speaker 1: his best tape. I would say to feature him as
Speaker 1: an NFL prospect. So I'm not anti Ursery. I just wonder,
Speaker 1: if you know, because of the lack of depth in
Speaker 1: this draft and all that stuff, like, does he end
Speaker 1: up going in like the twenties and now, yeah, we
Speaker 1: could talk about trade ups, but it gets complicated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it gets a little tougher.
Speaker 1: All right. Two more guys. This is from Christian from Virginia.
Speaker 1: One of my guys in this draft, Luther Burden, and
Speaker 1: he asks, how heavily do you weigh his last season
Speaker 1: struggles on Luther Burden And you know, just the twenty
Speaker 1: three tape versus the twenty fourth tape. This is a
Speaker 1: fair question. Obviously, Yes, I would say that Luther Burden
Speaker 1: including Travis Hunter would be wide receiver three. Not including
Speaker 1: Travis Hunter would be wide receiver two. You still have
Speaker 1: him behind tap right, Yeah, just strictly based off the film.
Speaker 2: Sure.
Speaker 1: Again, like I said, we're else we were talking about
Speaker 1: the Mike Green. Like I said, with Mike Green, I'm
Speaker 1: not in the interviews. I'm not a scout, so I don't.
Speaker 1: I hate judging like the mental tough hangs off the field.
Speaker 2: I just want to separate this though, because it's Mike Green.
Speaker 2: It's like it's been and I don't know what happened,
Speaker 2: but yeah, it's been. I think like character concern has
Speaker 2: been brought up with Luther Burden. It's basically just that.
Speaker 2: So when it comes twenty three, twenty four, Brady Cook,
Speaker 2: who I liked, just fell off. I don't know what happened.
Speaker 2: He was hurt for part of the year. But even before,
Speaker 2: like Brady Cook, who was kind of supposed to be
Speaker 2: that like Bridge day two quarterback guy had an atrociousye.
Speaker 2: I mean he was really bad.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't want to pick on the guy, but he
Speaker 2: was not good. Naturally, that's gonna impact the wide receivers
Speaker 2: and in certain games when it was going well for
Speaker 2: Luther Burden. Anybody who watched that BC game saw it.
Speaker 2: He got a little emotional inside of mine. It wasn't
Speaker 2: full on Odell Beckham boxing the field gold net, but
Speaker 2: he was clearly frustrated. And that's where the and you
Speaker 2: saw it in the body language two where he would
Speaker 2: kind of it. He appeared to like check out at
Speaker 2: times in games when it was just clear that they
Speaker 2: didn't have it. That's the question with Burden. It's not
Speaker 2: an off field thing. It's just will he stay engaged
Speaker 2: if he's not getting the ball and if the team struggling.
Speaker 2: I really like Burden too, just to kind of expand
Speaker 2: on this, So whether you think he's the best receiver
Speaker 2: or not, Like I'm going with the consensus on this one.
Speaker 2: Teed McMillan's gonna be the first wide receiver off the board.
Speaker 2: He's gonna go somewhere in the top ten. Right. What
Speaker 2: happens next at wide receiver is an unknown and that's
Speaker 2: what's interesting to me. So to me, there's a clear
Speaker 2: cut next level. And with Travis Hunter again is his
Speaker 2: own thing. Yeah, there's a clear cut next level after
Speaker 2: Tet it's meta Buka it's Matthew Golden, and it's Luther Burden,
Speaker 2: and all three of those guys I think are I
Speaker 2: have them rated similarly. They're all very different players stylistically,
Speaker 2: especially a BUCA, but they're all similar impact kind of guys.
Speaker 2: Who goes next? Where do they go? Because the idea
Speaker 2: of the Patriots trading back up in the back end
Speaker 2: of the first round, which I think is a possibility
Speaker 2: for a receiver, is attractive, but who is there? I
Speaker 2: don't think all three of those guys make it to
Speaker 2: the twenties. I think one of them certainly does. Do
Speaker 2: two of them absolutely, we're just talking raw talent. Burden's
Speaker 2: the best of the three. Yeah, But because he's not
Speaker 2: as consistent, because there are those questions about him in
Speaker 2: between plays, does he get down in the twenties. I'm
Speaker 2: not super worried about the moodiness. I'm really not. I
Speaker 2: think that's overblown.
Speaker 1: It's also wide receiver for you.
Speaker 2: Right, find a good wide receiver that's okay, not getting
Speaker 2: the football. If Burden gets down into the twenties, if
Speaker 2: they're gonna do the trade backup for a receiver thing,
Speaker 2: let's say they take Campbell or whoever at the top right,
Speaker 2: not Ted. So they take Campbell, they take Carter, they
Speaker 2: take Michael Williams, even if it's Tyler Warren honestly, and
Speaker 2: then they move back up into the twenties. Twenty four
Speaker 2: to me is the sweet spot because the Vikings have
Speaker 2: no picks in this draft. I think they five total. Like,
Speaker 2: if Luther Burn's there at twenty four, I'm sprinting up
Speaker 2: to get him. You can make an argument for a
Speaker 2: Buka and Golden two. I think they all fit, but
Speaker 2: I don't know lu Luther Burn's gonna get in the twenties.
Speaker 2: If he does, I think that's the best option for
Speaker 2: the Patriots in a trade back up.
Speaker 1: So I look at Luther Burden and think it's gonna
Speaker 1: go one of two ways.
Speaker 2: Ye.
Speaker 1: He's either gonna fly off the board yep, and he's
Speaker 1: gonna be gone by fifteen, right or something.
Speaker 2: That's probably about his ceiling, like twelve to fifty right.
Speaker 1: Or he's gonna be on the board forever because teams
Speaker 1: have crossed him off.
Speaker 2: So Adie Mitchell, Sure, yeah.
Speaker 1: Adie Mitchell or something like that, you know, And all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, he were starting day two and now.
Speaker 2: And then the Chiefs trade up and get him. He's amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's a world because of that that Luther
Speaker 1: Burden is available closer to where the Patriots are gonna
Speaker 1: pick at thirty eight. But if he is, then you
Speaker 1: have to weigh the question of, well can we manage
Speaker 1: a guy like this? You know everybody else is seeing
Speaker 1: some sort you know, he's taking a lot in about
Speaker 1: the character flags the reason though, in terms of the
Speaker 1: talent overall, though, like his season two years ago to
Speaker 1: me is good enough to prop him up as a
Speaker 1: top twenty player in the class in my mind, because
Speaker 1: it was such an early breakout year for him that
Speaker 1: if you look at the course of his story as
Speaker 1: that of this of the receiver position, usually when you
Speaker 1: break out as a true sophomore and you put on
Speaker 1: film that you're like a top first round pick, top talent,
Speaker 1: and a draft type of player. The next year, the
Speaker 1: junior season is kind of just buying time.
Speaker 2: Well, you know who my comp is for this and
Speaker 2: you hate it? Yeah it's Jordan Addison. Yeah, different players stylistically,
Speaker 2: and Jordan Addison transferred, But this is what happened with
Speaker 2: Jordan Aison. You're buying top bullet Pit. I think did
Speaker 2: he win the Bullet and a Coffee was a finalist? Yeah.
Speaker 2: In his sophomore year, transferred to USC and USC Wow,
Speaker 2: Lincoln RD, He's gonna even better. Didn't really work out
Speaker 2: there and suddenly people started saying, maybe he's not a
Speaker 2: first round pick. But it was no. If you go
Speaker 2: watch him at PIT, he is. It was just for
Speaker 2: whatever reason, didn't click. I think I know the reason
Speaker 2: with Luthor burn is because the rest of the offense
Speaker 2: didn't carry their share with the load. But it kind
Speaker 2: of reminds me of Jordan Addison, where you're gonna have
Speaker 2: to choose what do you believe in the two years
Speaker 2: ago tape or the last year tape. I'll believe in
Speaker 2: the two years ago tape. I'm perfectly fine doing that.
Speaker 2: With Luthor Burton.
Speaker 1: There's just a lot of freshman year is pretty good.
Speaker 1: There's just a lot of evidence of that of you know,
Speaker 1: the second year. You know, maybe it's a true freshman
Speaker 1: breakout or a true sophomore breakout. Drake may like Drake,
Speaker 1: you know, his big season was his true sophomore season.
Speaker 1: Then he took a little bit of a step back
Speaker 1: freshman or yeah, maybe it's retroan freshman and took a
Speaker 1: little bit behind hell for you a little step back.
Speaker 1: It's just young breakout player, three level separator, awesome with
Speaker 1: the football in his hands, explosive with the capital legue. Like,
Speaker 1: there's just a lot to love about the player. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if he checks out mentally, it will be a different thing.
Speaker 1: The other player that he mentioned. We'll get back to
Speaker 1: the phones here before you wrap it is Jack Sawyer.
Speaker 1: How to feel about Jack Sawyer?
Speaker 2: Know how I feel about Jack Sawer.
Speaker 1: I think Jack Sawyer is probably not a natural pass
Speaker 1: rusher in terms of like winning one on one. He's
Speaker 1: probably better like within the scheme, you know, stun simulated
Speaker 1: pressures like getting him free and things like that. Good
Speaker 1: solid enough run defender in terms of just base run defender.
Speaker 1: But as a pass rusher, I don't necessarily think he's
Speaker 1: gonna be like a difference making one on one edge rusher.
Speaker 1: But if you put him in a in stunts and
Speaker 1: twists and things like that up front, he can be
Speaker 1: effective on those and leader, you know, leader through.
Speaker 2: The brings the edge, high motor, physical player, tone setter,
Speaker 2: character guy, all of that. He can't lead your pass rush.
Speaker 2: But if you're let me put it to you this way.
Speaker 2: If they're two edge guys next year, or Josh Sweat
Speaker 2: and Jack Sawyer, how do you feel about that?
Speaker 1: Oh? Very good? Yeah, exactly, because I think Jack Sawyer
Speaker 1: is a perfect compliment. He's a perfect Robin, right, like
Speaker 1: if somebody else is drawing all the attention and he's
Speaker 1: just gonna be able to just you know, use picks
Speaker 1: and games and stuff like that and get after the
Speaker 1: quarterback and like harass people.
Speaker 2: Everybody wants to compare to Mike Vrabel because he's at
Speaker 2: Ohio State and Vrabel's here and it's the top of mind.
Speaker 2: Rob Ninkovic, not bad, Rob Nikovic. And you so now
Speaker 2: you and I mean you just have to go find
Speaker 2: your Chandler Jones or your Trey Flowers, like those are
Speaker 2: good players obviously. But again, if you get a guy
Speaker 2: like Josh Sweat, or you trade for guy like Trey
Speaker 2: Hendrickson and then you have Jack Sawyer on the other side,
Speaker 2: here you go, you're off and run.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Nicholas Nick asks about Mason Graham, who I've I've been
Speaker 1: on the record about being you know, uh lukewarm. I
Speaker 1: guess I would say is the best way.
Speaker 2: I want to be careful about this because I feel like,
Speaker 2: especially this time of year, we start to go down
Speaker 2: this road not thinking the player is a fit for
Speaker 2: the Patriots and not thinking he's a good player, or
Speaker 2: two different things. Yeah, I think Mason Graham's a very
Speaker 2: good player, and in an other world, or the Patriots
Speaker 2: win a couple more games this year, maybe we're talking
Speaker 2: about him as a much more realistic option at four
Speaker 2: with the other players we think are going to be
Speaker 2: on the board. He's he's not a bad pick, but
Speaker 2: I don't think he's the best pick they can make.
Speaker 1: So the question here though, I guess PFF gave him
Speaker 1: a really high run defense grade, which I frankly could
Speaker 1: care less about. But in the run defense grade, I
Speaker 1: guess he was really high. I've said in the past,
Speaker 1: which is true, that I think he's kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: an average run defender. I think, you know, with PFF,
Speaker 1: they they probably put a lot of weight into run
Speaker 1: stops and stuffs and things like that, which is all
Speaker 1: well and fair. When I watch Mason Graham on film,
Speaker 1: I think, in general, like he lacks a little bit
Speaker 1: of power below his waist, so he's not a great
Speaker 1: in taking on double teams. I don't think he's awful
Speaker 1: at it, but he's not great at taking on double teams.
Speaker 1: And he also has shorter arms and a shorter upper
Speaker 1: bodies kind of got just overall like a stocky, stout build.
Speaker 2: And so when you don't.
Speaker 1: Again like we were talking with edge rushers, like when
Speaker 1: you don't have that length to really extend and and
Speaker 1: separate from blocks in the run game, it becomes more
Speaker 1: difficult to do things like two gaping and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So if you're expecting him to shoot gaps and slither
Speaker 1: around blocks and slip box and slide inside gaps and
Speaker 1: things like that, Like, if that's the type of defense
Speaker 1: you're gonna play, then he's a great player for that.
Speaker 1: If you're expecting him to be stout and just like
Speaker 1: stand guys up at the point of attack, I just
Speaker 1: don't think that he has that kind of body type.
Speaker 2: And I'll include this too, let's not forget. And I
Speaker 2: honestly I have to remind myself of this when I
Speaker 2: saw jeremiahs Mok the other day. Yeah, Michigan is another
Speaker 2: defensive tackle that's gonna go in the first round. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I watched him the other day.
Speaker 1: Kennth Grant.
Speaker 2: YEA is also a really good player. But Kenneth Grant
Speaker 2: was the run stopper in that group. So when teams
Speaker 2: are running, they're running at Mason Graham because the Kenneth
Speaker 2: Grant's like threered and forty pounds. He's a nose tackle,
Speaker 2: so he's getting most of the attention from offenses in
Speaker 2: the run game. They I wanted to run at Gram.
Speaker 2: I like Kenneth Grant. He's a good player. Does make
Speaker 2: sense for the Patriots. He's a good player.
Speaker 1: Uh. Dave says that he is happy that I've mentioned
Speaker 1: that Ashton Denty is a blue chip player in this
Speaker 1: draft even though he plays running back. And he thinks
Speaker 1: that that's very big of me.
Speaker 2: As as I'm impressed you've you fully and brak. You
Speaker 2: didn't you let me do my whole best player availables
Speaker 2: made up. You didn't belly ache about having to admit
Speaker 2: the running backs and the punters are good. It was good.
Speaker 1: Uh. This email the subject line is telling you to
Speaker 1: shut up. Yeah, okay, there you go. We get those
Speaker 1: something about what just that's it?
Speaker 2: That's the whole email? What time? What time was that email? Uh?
Speaker 1: Twelve thirty seven, just be quiet to stop.
Speaker 2: What I was saying about half an hour, and I remember,
Speaker 2: I don't think that was the best avail.
Speaker 1: I think that was later last week. It was you know,
Speaker 1: it would be me shut up next week.
Speaker 2: No, I know, I'm just I'm curious what set that off?
Speaker 2: Uh yep.
Speaker 1: This emailer says that they love hearing you interrupt me
Speaker 1: about pronunciations, which.
Speaker 2: I'm off that I can. Oh, maybe that's what it was.
Speaker 1: As we're in like a deep philosophical conversation and I
Speaker 1: say somebody's weird name, and then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: we have to derail from the conversation for you to
Speaker 1: correct me. What was it, Kevin Bayard? Apparently I said,
Speaker 1: really bothered you.
Speaker 2: A lot of emails.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get to the best ones here, I know, Okay,
Speaker 1: this one just saying, you know, if Will Campbell, if
Speaker 1: I think that the patrons don't have a left guard
Speaker 1: on the roster, at least a good you know, a
Speaker 1: good left guard, Like why wouldn't you take Will Campbell? Anyways,
Speaker 1: I'm not that crazy. Like, positional value still matters a
Speaker 1: lot to me. I understand that you can make the
Speaker 1: argument that he's going to be like a Zach Martin
Speaker 1: Quentin Nelson level guard. I probably still wouldn't do it
Speaker 1: at that point, you know, I hate guards.
Speaker 2: Not A four. If you can get a Hault to
Speaker 2: trade down and he's still there at like ten eleven, twelve,
Speaker 2: i'd consider it. I'd have to see you else would
Speaker 2: be on board. I'm not taking him as a guard
Speaker 2: A four though.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, a lot of scenarios. I don't know if
Speaker 1: I can read all these are tough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's tough radio.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: That's more male bag question.
Speaker 1: So this question is not really draft related, but I
Speaker 1: do think it is. It's pertinent just about when does
Speaker 1: Drake May start getting with Josh McDaniels to start learning
Speaker 1: the playbook and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: And was Josh McDaniels higher too three weeks ago?
Speaker 1: Yeah, technically, technically I think it's it's the start of
Speaker 1: the off season program in April is like the technical time.
Speaker 1: But Drake May, I'm sure already has the playbook. He's
Speaker 1: talked about the library, you know, the Tom Brady library
Speaker 1: that Josh McDaniels has that you can go back and
Speaker 1: watch all of that. So I think he's already cooking
Speaker 1: and all those things Henry asks, And I think this
Speaker 1: is an interesting player I'm not sure about for the Patriots.
Speaker 1: But if we're considering Will Campbell, despite you know, his
Speaker 1: measurements and all that, why not memboo armand Membo, who
Speaker 1: I think is a really good player on film too,
Speaker 1: But maybe that ten to twenty ranges.
Speaker 2: Also, I mean he's only played right tackle.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: I guess if they were to sign whoever one of
Speaker 2: those Cam Robinson or Alaric Jackson, and you know, you're okay,
Speaker 2: now we're gonna draft Membu to play on the right side,
Speaker 2: and we're just gonna, you know, give up on Kane Wallace.
Speaker 2: Experiment like that could make sense. I could get into that,
Speaker 2: But I'm not drafting member to play left tackle.
Speaker 1: Yep. I agree with you. No, definitely not to play
Speaker 1: left tackle. No, that's and.
Speaker 2: I'm not drafting a right tackle in the first round
Speaker 2: when left tackles still a need and there's left tackles
Speaker 2: on the board. But if they have left tackle answered,
Speaker 2: you know, if they move down a little bit, yeah,
Speaker 2: as a right tackle, I could get on board with that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, it's another question. From Steven that I always
Speaker 1: find interesting. You know, a lot of people will say
Speaker 1: to me, well, it doesn't none of it actually matters
Speaker 1: until we get through free agency, like because we don't know,
Speaker 1: you know, right is gonna happen in free agency. I
Speaker 1: think there's some truth to that. But I also, for example,
Speaker 1: if you sign Alerc Jackson or Camra Robinson, you are
Speaker 1: saying that that's gonna be our left tackle, right, so
Speaker 1: you're probably not gonna now take the left tackle in
Speaker 1: the first round.
Speaker 2: But I wouldn't say that.
Speaker 1: It's like it's a big sway for me, Like I
Speaker 1: still think you're gonna target the best players at premium
Speaker 1: positions in the top of the draft. Maybe if you
Speaker 1: if you sign a tackle and free agency, you don't
Speaker 1: draft Will Campbell. But if you really love Will Campbell,
Speaker 1: like as much as I do, maybe a Jackson plays right.
Speaker 1: Maybe Will Campbell plays right. Like we just did this
Speaker 1: with the Chargers.
Speaker 2: How long do you and how long did you sign
Speaker 2: him for? Maybe Will Campbell's your left guard this year
Speaker 2: and the next three he goes out to tackle. I
Speaker 2: wouldn't love that, but I could see something like that.
Speaker 2: It's also like get this stage too This is more
Speaker 2: about just learning who the players are. I know we're
Speaker 2: getting into some scenarios and would you take this guy
Speaker 2: here in this and that, But we're just kind of
Speaker 2: learning who these guys are. And then yes, once for
Speaker 2: agency happens, then you really start to get in the
Speaker 2: nitty gritty of okay, like order of operations, where are
Speaker 2: you taking different guys? What would this first round pick
Speaker 2: mean for the second round. I know we're doing some
Speaker 2: of that right now because it's just a fun hypothetical,
Speaker 2: but like, take that all with a grain of salt.
Speaker 2: This stage is really just about learning who the options are,
Speaker 2: regardless of how they maybe fit.
Speaker 1: All right, last one and then we'll take these calls
Speaker 1: and then we'll wrap it up. Willie is telling us
Speaker 1: that we should just enjoy and appreciate the rest of
Speaker 1: the draft. I think early on in the show we
Speaker 1: were getting a little hot and bothered by some of
Speaker 1: the takes and the draft. I agree. The draft is
Speaker 1: my favorite time of the year. It is a difficult
Speaker 1: time of the year though for me. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: lie because and I love it. I love all the
Speaker 1: interest in the draft. I love it. I love that
Speaker 1: all you guys show so much interest in the draft,
Speaker 1: and we obviously greatly appreciate the interest in the show,
Speaker 1: but to constantly be told that you were wrong about
Speaker 1: something is always a little bit tough, even for people
Speaker 1: like us that are somewhat used to it. So whenever
Speaker 1: we get into it on Twitter or on here or whatever,
Speaker 1: I do sometimes get I'm tired of answering for you
Speaker 1: making my.
Speaker 2: Eye, especially this time of year, because there's so many unknowns. Right,
Speaker 2: Will Campbell's arm length is a variable, like a very
Speaker 2: significant variable in this entire draft that we don't know about.
Speaker 2: The Travis Hunter position thing is a very significant variable
Speaker 2: in this draft that we don't know about. The quarterbacks
Speaker 2: essentially being wild cards. They could go top three, we
Speaker 2: might not see either of them go top twenty, right, Like,
Speaker 2: we don't know. So it'll clear up a little bit
Speaker 2: as we go. But it's kind of like my take,
Speaker 2: I don't know if you heard this couple weeks ago,
Speaker 2: my take on the Bruins on the Sports Look, if
Speaker 2: you feel strongly about the Bruins, you're probably wrong. Didn't
Speaker 2: say which way because I don't think it's it's relevant,
Speaker 2: Like there's such a huge I would say the same
Speaker 2: thing at this point. If you feel really strongly about
Speaker 2: the way this draft is going to go, you're probably wrong,
Speaker 2: And I don't care what that feeling is. There's so
Speaker 2: many unknowns at this point, So it's because we have
Speaker 2: to make so many assumptions. It is kind of tough.
Speaker 2: I wrote this in my mock draft I did two
Speaker 2: weeks ago. This is the toughest mock draft I've ever done. Yeah,
Speaker 2: from a Patriots point of view, and just from the
Speaker 2: from the players on the board. There's so many unknowns
Speaker 2: with the team in terms of what could happen in
Speaker 2: free agency, what's changing with these new coaches. We have
Speaker 2: unknowns elsewhere in the league, like the t Higgins thing.
Speaker 2: That and we know that now, but we didn't know
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago to the unknowns we have
Speaker 2: with some of these players. With guys like Will Campbell
Speaker 2: and Travis Hunter, there's so many assumptions you have to make.
Speaker 2: So trying to talk about the draft in that sense
Speaker 2: at this point is really hard because you're not necessarily
Speaker 2: gonna be on the same page as somebody else because
Speaker 2: you might be operating I'm operating off the assumption that
Speaker 2: Will Campbell's gonna come in at thirty three inches rounder
Speaker 2: with his arms, somebody else might be operating off the
Speaker 2: assumption that he's gonna come in under Well. We're obviously
Speaker 2: gonna have two very different viewpoints on the draft, as
Speaker 2: we should, but there's no way you can't debate how
Speaker 2: long his arms are there. There's gonna be a measurement
Speaker 2: and that's what it's gonna be. So don't get it
Speaker 2: doing wrong. We are very much enjoying it. But this
Speaker 2: is a really unique draft. It's a tough to talk
Speaker 2: about it. It's a hard draft to comprehend. This is like,
Speaker 2: I'm so glad our first year, like fully doing this
Speaker 2: was twenty one, right, Yeah, probably because yeah, twenty I
Speaker 2: was the pandemic. And anyway, I'm so glad this isn't
Speaker 2: the first draft we're doing because I would be thinking
Speaker 2: back to how I approached the draft then and the
Speaker 2: things I've learned the last three is I wish I
Speaker 2: had three more years under my belt to do this draft.
Speaker 2: This is not easy. This is not an easy year.
Speaker 2: It's gonna get easier once we get some of this
Speaker 2: information at the combine and then free agency. This is
Speaker 2: a really tough year. In terms of and we approach
Speaker 2: it a little differently. We were texting about this the
Speaker 2: other night. Yeah, my big approach. I'll tell you if
Speaker 2: I think players will be good or not. I'm trying
Speaker 2: to get, you know, what's the draft outlook going to look?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 2: Where are these guys are gonna go? Whatever they become.
Speaker 2: After that, we'll see you're more into that second part,
Speaker 2: which is projecting the careers. The first part of it
Speaker 2: that like how the draft is gonna go. It's it's
Speaker 2: a really hard year for that.
Speaker 1: I think it's it's exceptionally hard year in general, because,
Speaker 1: like I keep on saying all show, there's not a
Speaker 1: lot separating some of these guys. So it's really a
Speaker 1: what do you value in players? What's your flavor? Like,
Speaker 1: what type of players.
Speaker 2: Do you like?
Speaker 1: What are do you think their needs are? And like
Speaker 1: where their biggest needs are. So I, personally, you know,
Speaker 1: think that left tackle is their biggest need. So obviously
Speaker 1: I'm going to pound the table for the best left
Speaker 1: tackle in the draft here. Other people might think that
Speaker 1: pass rush is their biggest need, or receivers their biggest need,
Speaker 1: or other people might think Will Campbell's a guard, so
Speaker 1: like you know, there's there's so much variable right now
Speaker 1: to your point of you know, we don't have enough information.
Speaker 1: Then on top of that, I just don't think there's
Speaker 1: a ton separating all the options. So like you can
Speaker 1: make the case for any of these options. Like it's
Speaker 1: not a Mason Graham's case is not bad, right, Like
Speaker 1: there's an actual tangible case, whereas in other years, like
Speaker 1: last year, for example, even though if people made the
Speaker 1: case for Marvin Harrison Junior, it was really quarter it
Speaker 1: was a quarterback, there was always a back, right, So
Speaker 1: like it's just this year is different. There's a bunch
Speaker 1: of different variables.
Speaker 2: There's a case for Ted McMillan. There's yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: there's cases for Carter and Hunter. Whether or not they'll
Speaker 2: be on the board is even that's not consensus at
Speaker 2: this point. There's still people talking about Carter Hunter is
Speaker 2: the pick, and maybe the quarterbacks do push one of
Speaker 2: them down, maybe they end up there, Like we don't
Speaker 2: know that that they're wrong.
Speaker 1: Okay, we gotta be quick, guys on the on the phones,
Speaker 1: but I don't want to leave you guys hanging. So
Speaker 1: Kendall is in North Carolina, it's up Kendall, Hey, good.
Speaker 5: Hey, if we will design Deris Slayton their free agency
Speaker 5: and also Travis Travis Hunter agreed to play receiver and
Speaker 5: we picked him at four. What is the best way
Speaker 5: to use them as a zoor? Thanks?
Speaker 1: Thanks Kendall. I would use Travis Hunter as a Z.
Speaker 1: I think his best usage is as a Z. I
Speaker 1: think his frame and like it just a lack of
Speaker 1: kind of play strength and mass that he has to
Speaker 1: his game. He might struggle a little bit against press
Speaker 1: corners as a true boundary X. That's not saying he
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. Like my con for him is DeVante Smith,
Speaker 1: who does play a little bit of X for Philadelphia
Speaker 1: at times, but is predominantly playing off the line with
Speaker 1: AJ Brown playing the X. So that's how I would
Speaker 1: look at Travis Hunter. And I think Darius Layton could
Speaker 1: play the X. He's a field stretcher, he's a vertical thread,
Speaker 1: he can go isolation. I think he could do those
Speaker 1: types of things. Sean and Ottawa, you're gonna wrap us
Speaker 1: up here, Sean, what's up?
Speaker 4: Hey, I'm gonna give you just a quick scenario here.
Speaker 4: So if Campbell's arms measuring at thirty two and seven
Speaker 4: eight love and you anticipate that Hunter and Carter.
Speaker 2: Off the board at four crime.
Speaker 4: Who would you make your number one pre agent priority?
Speaker 4: And who would you ideally take it for if you
Speaker 4: were the decision maker?
Speaker 1: Thanks for the calls. That is the scenario.
Speaker 2: This is you You really want to get people at
Speaker 2: each other's throats. That that's the one, that's the one
Speaker 2: that is going to be the most divisive. You're You're
Speaker 2: not gonna find two people with the same answer seven
Speaker 2: as uh thirty and eighths and Hunter and Carter off
Speaker 2: the board. This, this is this is the big one.
Speaker 2: Lights are bright.
Speaker 1: I'm still taking Campbell.
Speaker 2: I'm still taking Campbell.
Speaker 1: If you what I can and I get it. It's
Speaker 1: a game of inches, YadA, YadA, YadA. We're talking about
Speaker 1: an eighth of an inch man, Like if that's the
Speaker 1: difference between him being a really good you know, I
Speaker 1: hate to use red franchise, but franchise left tackle and not,
Speaker 1: then I think he's gonna have other issues that contribute
Speaker 1: to the not. It's not gonna be an eighth of
Speaker 1: an inch of an arm line.
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna stick with what I said with the
Speaker 2: quarterbacks last year when people would call and be like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, quarterbacks bust and blah blah blah, And it's
Speaker 2: a risk. I'm not I'm not striking out, looking getting
Speaker 2: the bat off my shoulder. And if I strike and
Speaker 2: you know what, even if I strike out, he's still
Speaker 2: gonna be a damn good guard. And you've got to
Speaker 2: figure out tackle now. And that's unfortunate. And I've also
Speaker 2: said this to you, I think the threshold people are
Speaker 2: expecting from that fourth overall pick in this draft. It
Speaker 2: goes back to the quality of the draft. Like if
Speaker 2: if he's Nate Solder in dramatically different play styles. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but Nate soldiers here for what ten years? Twelve years?
Speaker 1: Wasn't that long, was it?
Speaker 2: But he all right, yeah, seven years and he was
Speaker 2: a solid starting left tackle. He didn't worry about him.
Speaker 2: He wasn't Joe Thomas. But nobody was really here being like, oh,
Speaker 2: they got to replace Nate Solder. They got an upgrade
Speaker 2: Nate Solder, and they had a good roster at the time.
Speaker 2: You could kind of pick and choose like that, Yeah,
Speaker 2: if Will Campbell's that, if you get eight to ten
Speaker 2: years of set it and forget it, left tackle play
Speaker 2: maybe he makes a Pro Bowl or two here or there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's somebody else you brought up as a camp in
Speaker 2: Ryan Ramchicks same thing.
Speaker 1: Like thirty three and like, I think it's thirty three
Speaker 1: and a half.
Speaker 2: I know some people hear that and they're like, that's
Speaker 2: not enough for the fourth overall pick in this draft.
Speaker 2: If that's who they get, I'm sleeping like a baby.
Speaker 2: I'm so okay with that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a good point. Then you have
Speaker 1: to make the end this in this draft, and then.
Speaker 2: Who who's your top free agent priority? The other question, Josh.
Speaker 1: Swatson, Yeah, that would be.
Speaker 2: My joan Javon Hollins like one bee.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but in this draft you have to realize that
Speaker 1: hitting a double might be what you get in this draft.
Speaker 1: You might not hit the homer in this one. This
Speaker 1: is not it. I don't know if it's built for that.
Speaker 1: And that could be true for Campbell, Graham, Tent, whoever.
Speaker 1: But all those guys I compare Tent to Drake London, like,
Speaker 1: good player, but not Randy Moss, right a player will
Speaker 1: Campbell to Ryan Ramchick, good player, but not Joe Thomas. Right,
Speaker 1: that's all these guys to me in this draft. All right,
Speaker 1: we've been over time here. We'll be back next week
Speaker 1: live from Indianapolis from Radio Row at the Combine. Looking
Speaker 1: forward to that. Alex and I will both be there
Speaker 1: in person, so be a lot of fun, and we'll
Speaker 1: take all your calls and emails, will react to Mike
Speaker 1: Rabel and Elliott Wolf and all the goings on in Indianapolis.
Speaker 1: So until then, signing off for Alex bart Evan Lazar,
Speaker 1: see you next time in Indianapolis.
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