Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
Speaker 1: welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher. I am
Speaker 1: your host, Ramses job.
Speaker 2: Is Ramsey's Jah. I am q Ward. You are listening
Speaker 2: to Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1: You know what's crazy?
Speaker 2: No, I don't know what's crazy.
Speaker 1: Allow me to tell you stereotypes. Stereotypes are kind of wild, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's what we're going to talk about today. One
Speaker 1: of the things that comes up quite a bit in
Speaker 1: our conversations with people has to do with their upbringing
Speaker 1: being surrounded by stereotypes with respect to black people. So
Speaker 1: today's show, we're going to be dealing with a lot
Speaker 1: of stereotypes. We're going to talk about an incident in
Speaker 1: Ohio of a couple that was shopping while black man
Speaker 1: had the police called on them. And that's a very
Speaker 1: traumatic experience for a lot of black people at different
Speaker 1: points in our lives, and but it's it's kind of
Speaker 1: a shared trauma and and for folks that may not
Speaker 1: have access to it. We're gonna give you some insight.
Speaker 2: Wild black as a suffix is really yeah.
Speaker 1: Sure. We're also gonna spend some time talking about protesting
Speaker 1: wild black, that that wild black suffix often enough, Uh
Speaker 1: kind of makes it feel, you know, as reported by
Speaker 1: the news or just kind of in conversation, it makes
Speaker 1: it feel a little bit more sinister, a little bit
Speaker 1: more criminal, feel sinister, right, because it's been designed to
Speaker 1: and that's in that way, sure, sure so, uh. And
Speaker 1: we're also gonna use our way black history fact to
Speaker 1: talk about some the basis of a lot of these
Speaker 1: stereotypes as well. So a lot in store for you today,
Speaker 1: and hopefully this will be an educational episode for a
Speaker 1: lot of folks who've been wondering where the basis of
Speaker 1: all this stuff comes from. So we're definitely gonna get
Speaker 1: into that. But first and foremost, we are going to
Speaker 1: be celebrating a tad bit of EBNY excellence. Today's Abny
Speaker 1: Excellence is brought to you by Major Threads for the
Speaker 1: finest in men'swear. Checkmajor Threads dot com. And we have
Speaker 1: a video that we're going to play.
Speaker 3: Hi.
Speaker 4: I'm Dane Benton actor, Thank you and proud CMU alum.
Speaker 4: Earlier tonight, CMU and the Tony Awards presented the twenty
Speaker 4: twenty three Excellence and Theater Education Award. And while I
Speaker 4: am certain that the current Grand Wizard. I'm sorry, excuse me,
Speaker 4: governor of my home state of Florida, will.
Speaker 3: Be exchanging sure, Betty will be changing the name of
Speaker 3: this following town immediately.
Speaker 4: We were honored to present this award to the truly
Speaker 4: incredible and life changing Jason zembic Young and.
Speaker 1: Okay, So, in short, that wonderful display of courage or
Speaker 1: calling out what we believe to be racist behavior and
Speaker 1: divisive leadership on the part of Ron DeSantis. Calling that
Speaker 1: out was Broadway star Denay Benton, who's known for her
Speaker 1: roles in Hamilton and Into the Woods. Of course, she
Speaker 1: compared DeSantis to Ku Klux Klan leader as she acknowledged
Speaker 1: Florida teacher Jason's Zimbac Young as the winner of this
Speaker 1: year's Excellence and Theater Education Award. And that amount of
Speaker 1: courage and of course on that type of stage is
Speaker 1: a beaming example of ebony excellence if I've ever seen it,
Speaker 1: So I salute you. So now let's talk about shopping. So,
Speaker 1: you know, off the top of your head, can you
Speaker 1: think of any stories from your life where shopping was
Speaker 1: a particularly traumatic experience that you believe the trauma was
Speaker 1: based solely on your or the additional trauma was based
Speaker 1: on you being black.
Speaker 2: For some of our listeners, I don't want to insult
Speaker 2: them by making this some singular occurrence that stood out
Speaker 2: in my head from the one time it happened.
Speaker 1: Like of course, all the time, all the time.
Speaker 2: There's a movie when I was younger that was written, directed,
Speaker 2: and produced I believe by Eddie Murphy called Boomerang, and
Speaker 2: I remember there was a massive uproar in Hollywood and
Speaker 2: in the media because there was a movie about executives,
Speaker 2: like advertising executives and in the in the fashion and
Speaker 2: like fragrances and you know, in that in that whole world,
Speaker 2: and none of the main characters are white, and people
Speaker 2: were like really insulted and angered by it when that
Speaker 2: had been the case and then reverse for all of history,
Speaker 2: and no one had anything to say. And there is
Speaker 2: a scene in that film where these very very wealthy
Speaker 2: cosmetic marketing and advertisers, they're executives, are shopping at a
Speaker 2: men's clothing store and the salesperson immediately reminds them that
Speaker 2: there's no layaway and that they don't keep cash in
Speaker 2: the store. These three gentlemen have on suits. It's very,
Speaker 2: very clear that they are well to do if you
Speaker 2: will again, you know, marketing executives. But this salesperson saw
Speaker 2: three black men. It didn't care. It didn't care or
Speaker 2: it didn't matter that they had money or how they
Speaker 2: were dressed or how they spoke. They were black, so
Speaker 2: they had to be there to either steal something or
Speaker 2: they clearly could not afford anything that was there. So
Speaker 2: whenever they would grab something that they liked, he would
Speaker 2: make it known to them how expensive it was. That is,
Speaker 2: twelve hundred dollars or you know, whatever the price was,
Speaker 2: to kind of discourage them from even looking, and then
Speaker 2: reminded them we don't have layo. And when one of
Speaker 2: them simply suggested that they were okay, before he walked
Speaker 2: away and left them alone, made sure that they knew
Speaker 2: we don't keep cashing the store. Yeah, I think that
Speaker 2: speaks to that's sort of like art.
Speaker 1: Imitating life because that was a movie, but that I
Speaker 1: think that illustrates how we have this as black people,
Speaker 1: this collective trauma. This is almost like a shared experience.
Speaker 1: I know that if I encounter someone I've never met
Speaker 1: before but grew up in the United States, was black,
Speaker 1: might have grown up in a different sety different state
Speaker 1: that they will understand the feeling of shopping while black.
Speaker 2: I mean, like you said, art imitating life. That's why
Speaker 2: that scene was in the movie. Everybody black that saw
Speaker 2: that movie understood it was probably funny immediately.
Speaker 1: Not funny because it's funny, but funny because the movie
Speaker 1: perhaps captured it so well and it was so relatable. Right,
Speaker 1: So in that way, now I want to share a
Speaker 1: story about when I was I believe it was my
Speaker 1: first year of high school. But first I want to
Speaker 1: discuss why we're talking about this. So, as I mentioned,
Speaker 1: there is a video that has gone viral and the
Speaker 1: Black Information Network actually covered the story. So I'll read
Speaker 1: a bit about the story just to kind of bring
Speaker 1: you the listener up to speed on what kind of
Speaker 1: triggered this. Really, this whole show stereotypes, right, So I'll
Speaker 1: read a bit. Bed Bath and Beyond is facing online
Speaker 1: backlash after staff at an Ohio store called the police
Speaker 1: on a black couple and accused them of shoplifting because
Speaker 1: they had too many quote high ticket items in their cart.
Speaker 1: Footage posted by Lamar Richards on June sixteenth shows him
Speaker 1: and his boyfriend confronting store employees at a location in
Speaker 1: Toledo while a police officer is present, and this is
Speaker 1: him talking quote, I'd like to understand why police were called.
Speaker 1: That's very simple. Why were the police called with the
Speaker 1: three black people thinking that we were shoplifting? He asked
Speaker 1: a female worker. He goes on to say, I paid
Speaker 1: six hundred dollars for my things, so obviously I didn't shoplift.
Speaker 1: I want to understand why you thought I was shoplifting.
Speaker 1: And then the staff members says, if there's a big
Speaker 1: purchase item, there's usually a question. We just want to
Speaker 1: make sure. Richard said, okay, usually a question. I can
Speaker 1: understand that, but police being called, I can't understand that.
Speaker 1: So we obviously we saw this video and we recognize
Speaker 1: that feeling that Richards and his partner were having in
Speaker 1: that moment. I believe there was a comment that he
Speaker 1: made that was very similar to the scene that you
Speaker 1: just described in Boomerang Q where he says to the
Speaker 1: Richard says to the employee at the bed bathroom beyond,
Speaker 1: he says to her, I paid for this with a
Speaker 1: debit card, not with a credit card, using money that
Speaker 1: I earned with my degree.
Speaker 2: That was a statement earn from my job with the exactly,
Speaker 2: that's a bar That's a bar ain't it.
Speaker 1: And you know for other people that I feel like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, it's just a misunderstanding. Oh, these people exist,
Speaker 1: que I see your face.
Speaker 2: I'm sure they do. The problem is you'd have to
Speaker 2: be able to provide me a counter example, that's what
Speaker 2: to present it to me as a misunderstanding. And I
Speaker 2: know you can't because it doesn't happen.
Speaker 1: Right, But these people exist. And so for those people
Speaker 1: in your world, our listener, maybe you recognize that this
Speaker 1: is a thing, but maybe the people around you don't,
Speaker 1: and the people that you have conversations with and trying
Speaker 1: to help us tell our stories. So for the people
Speaker 1: that think that this is it might just be a misunderstanding,
Speaker 1: don't make a big deal out of it. Why are
Speaker 1: you filming, why are you recording? Clearly we're just protecting
Speaker 1: our interest. We didn't know it was an honest mistake,
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff, right, Because people feel this way,
Speaker 1: Those people are not looking beyond the incident that is
Speaker 1: in front of them. Those people are not realizing that, indeed,
Speaker 1: it is a lifetime of having that sort of monkey
Speaker 1: on your back in a manner of speaking, that nervousness
Speaker 1: when shopping through or walking through a store shopping you know,
Speaker 1: you know, the craziest thing, just a real quick example,
Speaker 1: The craziest thing for me is when I go into
Speaker 1: a store hoping to find something and I don't find
Speaker 1: what I'm wanting and I have to leave the store
Speaker 1: empty handed. It plagues me constantly. The reason for that
Speaker 1: is because if I go into the store and I
Speaker 1: don't find what I want and I have to leave
Speaker 1: the store empty handed, I steal. At forty years old,
Speaker 1: have that constant companion that fear, that trauma that says
Speaker 1: they're going to think I came in here to steal.
Speaker 2: Something really really sad and really infuriating. Truth to what
Speaker 2: you just said is, as soon as you said it,
Speaker 2: my stomach started hurting because you know exactly, I knew
Speaker 2: you're why without you having to even express it. And
Speaker 2: it's that way with going into a store not buying.
Speaker 2: It's that way when getting poor service and still getting
Speaker 2: obligated to tip. You know, it is a you know that,
Speaker 2: like you said, that companion that's always with us where
Speaker 2: we have to make these decisions through this prism that
Speaker 2: is so incredibly unfair, so incredibly frustrating, but so incredibly
Speaker 2: ever present.
Speaker 1: It's constant.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So let me give you an example once upon
Speaker 1: a time. This is my mind. You have a ton
Speaker 1: of examples, but this one was very scary for me,
Speaker 1: very very scary for me. First, let me give you
Speaker 1: a little bit of background. If you're new to this show,
Speaker 1: you may not know this. My father was a minister.
Speaker 1: I don't say that because I believe it's necessarily virtuous.
Speaker 1: I say that because I understood quite well the difference
Speaker 1: between right and wrong according to the majority of the
Speaker 1: principles that we share as human beings. It speaks to
Speaker 1: a type of upbringing moral code. Yeah, trying to come
Speaker 1: across as virtuous. Yes, okay, thank you. So I knew
Speaker 1: better than this. Still, In addition, I recognized that the
Speaker 1: consequences or doing anything outside of what is expected of
Speaker 1: you while being black are more severe than the consequences
Speaker 1: of doing something outside of what it is expected of
Speaker 1: you while being white. In other words, if I, a
Speaker 1: black person, wants to drink beer as an underage teenager
Speaker 1: in high school, the consequences would be far worse for me. Potentially,
Speaker 1: if the police showed up, then they might be for
Speaker 1: you know, my friends who were not as melanated, and
Speaker 1: on and on the consequence for everything. Beer is kind
Speaker 1: of a low hanging example, but you can imagine.
Speaker 2: I mean, but it's good to use a slightly benign example,
Speaker 2: thank you, to point out the contrast. Right, you show
Speaker 2: up to a party where the teenagers don't look like us,
Speaker 2: and it's a slap on the wrist and almost very literally,
Speaker 2: you know, hey, don't do this again, we'll tell your
Speaker 2: parents kind of thing. Yeah, we're going to jail. Chargers
Speaker 2: are being pressed, lawyers.
Speaker 1: Have to be involved parents.
Speaker 2: Hopefully that's all that happened. Hopefully this does not escalate
Speaker 2: into something far more sinister for no reason at all,
Speaker 2: except because of the way that you live.
Speaker 1: Sure, sure, and it's important that so a lot of
Speaker 1: people that don't live in this skin or have the
Speaker 1: black experience in the United States of America. And by
Speaker 1: that I don't mean by proximity, I mean by actually
Speaker 1: waking up inside of a black body with melanin, but
Speaker 1: you're body producing melanin that turns it brown, beautiful brown color.
Speaker 1: That experience, living that life, you cannot know the reality.
Speaker 1: And so for people who might say, listen, you're just
Speaker 1: imagining these things. It's the world is a fairer place
Speaker 1: than you think. We elected a black president. You know,
Speaker 1: people think this right, You cannot make that judgment only
Speaker 1: having lived the part of the experience that afford you
Speaker 1: the privilege to even fix your mouth to say that,
Speaker 1: I'll continue as a team. I went to the mall
Speaker 1: after school, which is what we did once upon a time.
Speaker 1: We didn't all have cell phones and whatever. You know,
Speaker 1: we actually had to hang out with each other, and
Speaker 1: that was our our friend group and our followers, et cetera, right,
Speaker 1: and a place to do. This place to be social
Speaker 1: was at the mall. Right, went to the mall one
Speaker 1: day and went into it might have been a It
Speaker 1: was a drug store, like a Walgreens or something. And
Speaker 1: I walked into the store through the outside door. In
Speaker 1: other words, I was using this store to gain access
Speaker 1: to the mall. It had two entrances, one from the
Speaker 1: mall side and one from outside, so I'm coming in
Speaker 1: from the outside. Walked into the store just fine. But
Speaker 1: mind you, I just got out of school, so I
Speaker 1: had my backpack on. I'm walking through the store. Remember
Speaker 1: I'm not buying anything. I'm just going into the mall,
Speaker 1: and when I get to the front of the store,
Speaker 1: the alarm thing beeps and and you know, I've been
Speaker 1: through some really tense moments in my life. I've I've
Speaker 1: had to come to terms with my own mortality. I
Speaker 1: have not been that scared maybe four or five times ever.
Speaker 1: Because when that alarm beaped, those people got to manhandling me,
Speaker 1: and they were yelling and screaming, and I didn't know
Speaker 1: what was going on because of course I didn't steal anything.
Speaker 1: I mean, just to give you the endisery, I didn't
Speaker 1: steal anything, but the way that they approached me as
Speaker 1: though I was already convicted of the capital murder, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, like they had they wrestled me.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not a I'm physically not a big person.
Speaker 1: I was much smaller when I was in school. I
Speaker 1: was a child steal. I might have been fourteen in
Speaker 1: ninth grade. You know, they were, you know, and these
Speaker 1: these are men, you know, the mall security, that sort
Speaker 1: of person. I don't remember if it was police or not,
Speaker 1: but it might have been because there were so many
Speaker 1: people there, and they they pushed me over the counter.
Speaker 1: After they took my backpack and they had my hands
Speaker 1: behind my back and they were just holding me. I
Speaker 1: didn't get handcuffed or anything, but they were holding me
Speaker 1: there and it was so aggressive. And then my friends
Speaker 1: that I was with they were powerless because remember their
Speaker 1: children too, so they're standing on the other side and
Speaker 1: they're thinking the worst. They're like, oh my god, Rams
Speaker 1: got caught stealing. And the start, how did he steal me?
Speaker 1: We just walked through the store. So the end of
Speaker 1: that story is they started going through my backpack because
Speaker 1: obviously they were checking my person to see if I
Speaker 1: had anything, and then go through my backpack and then
Speaker 1: they take out They first looked at my background. There's
Speaker 1: nothing in my backpack except homework and like pencils and stuff.
Speaker 1: So they're putting everything. They put the backpack through the
Speaker 1: beeping machine or whatever to see if you the shoplifting gait.
Speaker 1: I guess, and then my backpack beep. I remember that.
Speaker 1: And then they started taking my backpack everything out of
Speaker 1: its the big zipper and then the little tiny zipper,
Speaker 1: and they're putting everything through to try to figure out
Speaker 1: what was beeping the thing. Then they took out there
Speaker 1: used to be these notebook holders, and they were like
Speaker 1: kind of like trapper keepers sort of things. Basically would
Speaker 1: hold all your homework and your notes and everything from
Speaker 1: your different classes. They took out my trapper keeper thing
Speaker 1: and they held that through.
Speaker 2: The uh, trapper keeper thing because that is from a generation.
Speaker 2: Yeah you may not know, most of us know what
Speaker 2: a trapper keeper. I'm watching his face as he's trying
Speaker 2: to describe it. It's a folder. They'd be like saying,
Speaker 2: you know, a Coca cola thing, Like, no, just a coke. Yeah,
Speaker 2: trapper keeper. Yeah, that's what I had. Anyway, So they
Speaker 2: held it through the machine in it or the gate thing,
Speaker 2: and they beat. So then they zipped it open and
Speaker 2: trapper keeper and kept everything safe.
Speaker 1: So they zipped it.
Speaker 2: It's basically like a like a folder or a briefcase,
Speaker 2: but for kids.
Speaker 1: Right opened it up. I opened it up and it
Speaker 1: still had that tag that causes the gates to beat
Speaker 1: in it. Now you could look visibly look at it
Speaker 1: and see that it was worn, it was well used.
Speaker 1: I had it for maybe I had it all that year,
Speaker 1: but I suspect because I didn't grow up with a
Speaker 1: lot of money. If the stuff still was working let
Speaker 1: it ride. I probably had it for a few years,
Speaker 1: but that little sticker that causes the alarm to people
Speaker 1: still in the older. And so when I initially purchased
Speaker 1: it because I did put well, my mom purchased it
Speaker 1: for me to go to school. It had it in
Speaker 1: there and they never took it off right, So that,
Speaker 1: at fourteen years old, confirmed exactly what it was that
Speaker 1: I thought might happen if I was suspected of shoplifting.
Speaker 1: Call the authorities. It's a four alarm fire. Let's get
Speaker 1: everybody down here. There's a criminal, you know, and they
Speaker 1: don't come to the table with Hey, this might be
Speaker 1: a misunderstanding like they do. Because I've seen this happen
Speaker 1: at affluent department stores, because I shop in places like Built.
Speaker 2: In Benefited, the doubt for everyone else is triggering.
Speaker 1: Yeah, excuse me, ma'am. We must have forgotten to take
Speaker 1: something off of one of your items. Can we check
Speaker 1: that out and make sure that you're okay? Even if
Speaker 1: that person is suspected of stealing.
Speaker 2: You spare them the humiliation person is stealing, Yeah, you
Speaker 2: spare them with humiliation, and in my case, they were
Speaker 2: hurting me.
Speaker 1: I'll never forget that like, I was that afraid I
Speaker 1: have in that moment, I somehow disappointed my mother, my family,
Speaker 1: my friends, my community. You know, I always tried to
Speaker 1: do the right thing. I always tried to be a
Speaker 1: good person. I'm not going to say that I've always
Speaker 1: been perfect. I've had to learn what it means to
Speaker 1: be a man. Yeah, that's called growing up. We're perfect.
Speaker 2: It's not even a word that I can use for
Speaker 2: anything I've ever done throughout my entire existence. Somebody called
Speaker 2: me perfect before it made me cringe.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's fair. Yeah, we are learning. But listen, what's this?
Speaker 1: I think this this, this example and your example also
Speaker 1: shows how the point I'm trying to make, which is
Speaker 1: I had to learn despite having a strong moral code
Speaker 1: and an upbringing kind of knowing more or less what
Speaker 1: was right for mom, I had to learn what it
Speaker 1: meant to be a good man. I had to learn.
Speaker 1: And oftentimes we don't have the grace as black men
Speaker 1: to be able to learn, to make a mistake and
Speaker 1: learn from it. We're held to a standard of adults
Speaker 1: when we're children and treated like adults.
Speaker 2: That's because two things are true. One is that that
Speaker 2: criminal element is baked in if you look like that.
Speaker 2: So the reason why you're not giving any grace is
Speaker 2: because you're not making a mistake. You're being a criminals.
Speaker 2: That's what you are, That's who you are. So you're
Speaker 2: doing what it's in your nature to be that, right,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And we're assumed to also
Speaker 2: always be poor. You know. I thought of an example
Speaker 2: why you were telling your story, just to make this
Speaker 2: as quick as I possibly can. When I was shopping
Speaker 2: for my car, yes, the car that I have now,
Speaker 2: and I remember I was asking all these questions and
Speaker 2: the guy said to me in these words, so I
Speaker 2: ended up, of course, not buying a car from him.
Speaker 2: You're asking all these questions, sir, can you even afford
Speaker 2: this car?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: And I was like wow. Now, of course I didn't
Speaker 2: work suit to the car dealership, but to be petty,
Speaker 2: I did screenshot my account balance at the time, and
Speaker 2: it's just so happened that this was this way. I
Speaker 2: don't want anybody to read into this. I had enough
Speaker 2: money in my account that day to buy the car cash.
Speaker 2: So a nice car, the sales you, a very nice car.
Speaker 2: The sales manager at that dealership got a screenshot of
Speaker 2: my account balance. I did not have that kind of
Speaker 2: money for real, but that day the account balance was
Speaker 2: popping and I got to send that screenshot to that
Speaker 2: sales manager. As you can imagine, he was very upset
Speaker 2: and did a lot to try to win my business back,
Speaker 2: but it was too late, because I knew the only
Speaker 2: reason this person assumed I couldn't afford this car was
Speaker 2: because I looked like Q.
Speaker 1: I think Q is a good looking man. I appreciate you, brother, Yes, sir. Likewise,
Speaker 1: listen up, we got a lot more here. We're going
Speaker 1: to take a pause for the cause.
Speaker 2: While we're black man, that's sure.
Speaker 1: Stereotypes, man, they really do have a real world impact.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk more about it in just a second.