WEBVTT - Smart Talks with IBM: Unlocking Our Quantum Future 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.960 Hey everyone, it's Robert and Joe here. Today we've got 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:05.240 something a little bit different to share with you. It's 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:09.400 a new season of the Smart Talks with IBM podcast series. 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:13.520 This season on Smart Talks with IBM, Malcolm Gladwell is back, 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:15.760 and this time he's taking the show on the road. 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:19.160 Malcolm is stepping outside the studio to explore how IBM 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:22.880 clients are using artificial intelligence to solve real world challenges 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:25.520 and transform the way they do business. 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:29.560 From accelerating scientific breakthroughs to reimagining education. It's a fresh 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:33.040 look at innovation in action, where big ideas meet cutting 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:33.960 edge solutions. 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:37.160 You'll hear from industry leaders, creative thinkers, and of course 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:40.920 Malcolm Gladwell himself as he guides you through each story. 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:44.640 New episodes of Smart Talks with IBM drop every month 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:48.279 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:52.240 your podcasts. Learn more at IBM dot com slash smart Talks. 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:56.000 This is a paid advertisement from IBM. 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:58.720 Hello, this is Malcolm Gladwell and you're listening to Smart 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:02.160 Talks with IBM. Every year, Tech Week brings thousands of 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.640 people together to network and learn about what's emerging across 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:10.039 the technology ecosystem, and at this year's conference in San Francisco, 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:13.120 I had an amazing opportunity to sit down in front 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:16.160 of a live audience with Jay Gambetta. Jay has been 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:19.520 with IBM for years and was recently promoted to Director 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:23.280 of Research. In this job, Jay has an important mission 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:27.080 helping the company build the future of computing. In the 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:29.759 last episode of smart Talks, I began to learn about 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:34.679 quantum computing from IBM Chairman and CEO Arvind Krishna. But 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.200 this conversation I had with Jay went even deeper and 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:42.000 convinced me that the development of quantum isn't just a fun, 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:45.560 exciting new paradigm of computing, it may be one of 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:55.960 the most important scientific achievements of my lifetime. Jay, Good morning, morning, 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:59.320 Welcome to Smart Talks with IBM. Thank you special live 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:02.960 recording here for tech Week and congratulations. How long have 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:05.160 you been Head of Research at IBM? 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:09.320 Since October one? It's October tenth today, since nine days, 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:10.000 nine days. 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:12.800 Can you just talk a little about the position. This 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:17.200 is one of the most important positions in research in 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:17.680 the world. 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:21.280 IBM research has been around for eighty years and it's 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:26.320 done some tremendous technology, a lot of inventions and fundamentals 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:31.519 for semiconductors, algorithms, AI. Yeah, I think if we look 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:33.520 back to where a lot of the innovation and the 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:36.120 technology of the world comes from, I think you can 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:39.680 find Ibram's footprints on it, and you can find IBM research. 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:43.040 So yeah, I'm very excited for the opportunity, but I'm 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:45.640 also aware that there's big shoes to fill, and I'm 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:50.400 looking forward to how we take IBM research forward. Obviously, 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:53.440 I'm going to be bringing a lot of the quantum side, 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:57.000 which we're going to talk about later. Beyond quantum, there's 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:00.520 important work that needs to happen in AI hybrid cloud, 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:03.400 and I think we're going to also enter into this 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:06.880 new period of mathematics where we get to use quantum 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:11.000 machines and also AI machines. And there's some really good 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:13.400 hard mathematical questions to answer. 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:15.120 How many people do you have working for you? 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:19.240 I've been researchers in the three thousand researchers across many 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.520 different labs around the world. Our main lab is in Yorktown, 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:24.680 but then we have the lab actually out on the 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:28.160 West coast in Armadan or SBL Now and then we 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:31.560 have one in Zurich, Japan, and a few others around 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:31.919 the world. 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.080 Tell me a little bit before we get into quantum. 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:38.520 I'm just curious about your path. So you're Australian. Yep, 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:42.320 we were talking about earlier backstage. Your accent has become muted. 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:45.600 You should crank it up because it's. 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:48.360 Yeah, I'm slowly losing my Australian accent. I've been in 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.400 the US since two thousand and four, so accent, you know, 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.200 to sound very Australian. Yeah, but how do you practice it? 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:57.320 Maybe I got to go back to Australia. Here a 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:00.080 more Australians say gooday, how's it going? 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:00.560 Like that? 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:04.040 And you you didn't grow up thinking you're going to 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:05.560 be a scientist one day, now. 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:09.640 I grew up in a pretty normal life. My dreams 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.560 as a kid was building things, so I was either 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:15.640 going to be a carpenter or a mechanic. But I 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.600 had some great teachers that inspired me to go to university. 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.120 And I didn't even know, honestly what a scientist was. 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:25.960 And then I found myself at university doing science, particular physics, 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:27.360 and I ended up loving it. 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:30.520 So you go from there to what do you do 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:31.120 your PhD. 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:33.800 So I did my undergrad in Australia. I did it 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:40.279 actually in laser science, so I think I watched some 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:43.000 TV show in lasers seemed interesting, so I wanted to 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.279 learn about lasers. And then I realized in trying to 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:50.360 understand lasers there was this quantum mechanics, and so I 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:53.279 was like, all right, I want to actually understand this 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:55.520 quantum mechanics. So I did my equivalent of what you 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:58.680 and the US school masters. We call it honors in Australia, 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.320 but we do a research project. I said, I wanted 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:05.760 to shoot lasers into atoms and measure cross sections and 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:08.440 I got really into quantum physics. So then I decided, 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:11.599 all right, I don't understand this quantum physics. I want 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:16.040 to do my PhD in interpretations of quantum mechanics. So 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:17.839 I jumped in and said, all right, what is this 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:21.760 quantum mechanics? Why is everyone arguing on these different interpretations. 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.360 Then I finished my PhD in Australia doing that. Then 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.720 I moved over at the end of my PhD interpretations, 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:34.479 it's more people arguing about the equations whilst I think 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:37.279 it's really important. I decided if it's going to be 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.760 like a collapse equation versus many worlds, or a hidden 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:46.520 variable model, or that just quantum mechanics decoheres because we 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:50.200 don't see supersitions in the everyday world, because it interacts 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:53.400 with environment. The only way to answer that question was 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.520 to build a quantum computer. And so then I decided 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:58.960 at the end of my PhD, I wanted to work 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.599 out how to build a quant computer. And then I 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:05.080 left there and I went to Yale, and then at Yale, 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:08.479 that's where I got into superconducting cubits, which just a 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:10.839 few days ago one of the professors there just won 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:12.599 the Nobel Prize this year. 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.000 Oh wow, Yeah, I'm very interested in tracing because your 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:20.880 career follows the arc of quantum computing in a certain way. 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:24.000 Right at the time when you asked the question, what 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:25.680 I really want to do is to figure out how 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:28.600 to build a quantum computer. Where are we in quantum 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:29.880 computing at that point? 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.839 Yeah, So that would have been nineteen ninety So there 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.800 was Shaw's algorithm came out, let's say ninety five. There 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:39.839 was a lot of theory. And then the reason I 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:44.080 went to Yale is because people had started to show 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:48.839 that they could see quantum effects in electrical circuits. So 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:52.240 these macroscopic objects they were starting to behave quantum mechanical 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:55.760 There was a really significant breakthrough in nineteen ninety nine 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:59.960 where Yazoo Nakamura in Japan showed that a qubit could 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:03.640 exist in these electrical circuits. And then I found out 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:05.760 the group at Yale were really trying to take these 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:10.560 electrical circuits and couple them together. And so it was like, 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:14.880 if I can build something using electrical circuits and they're big, 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.160 that that's the best way that you cancide to test 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.920 and understand whether quantum mechanics breaks down at a macroscopic 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:25.040 scale or not. Can we actually make them behave as cubits? 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:27.800 And I agree. When I came to Yale, the cubits 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:32.840 were not very good. They were actually a couple of nanoseconds. 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:37.160 They were unstable. Electron would jump onto the chip and 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:39.760 then they would change all their configurations, so you have 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:43.160 to restart your experiment. And so for the first time 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:45.720 at Yale, it's kind of what the challenge there was, 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:48.200 how do we make a cubit? How do we make 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:51.640 a stable cubit? And that took about five years and 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:54.760 that took us up to two thousand and seven. And 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:56.960 I think the rest of the world looks and says 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:00.480 quantums like just blowing up. But it's actually been like 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:03.920 all most phases theory, showing that we got the algorithms, 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:06.480 how do we make a cubit? How do we couple 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.280 of the cubits together? And now we're in the scaling phase. 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:14.240 Describe for us, because many people in this room, me included, 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:18.000 have only a kind of surface level understanding of what 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:20.320 we mean when we use that phrase. What is the 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:24.040 difference between classical computing and quantum computing? What does that 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:24.600 word mean? 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:28.320 Yeah, so you can go down the physics way and 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:31.320 talk about supersition and entanglement, which we can go in later, 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:34.599 but actually feel it's a bit of a distraction. So 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:39.120 when you think of classical computers, what they were is 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:42.520 there were machines that were very good at adding numbers together, 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.920 like simple addition, and they really showed that they could 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.640 add these numbers together really really fast. And now with 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:54.480 GPUs and other AI accelerators, we can add those numbers 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:58.360 together in parallel, and so the whole classical computing can 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:02.200 come down to just arithmetic, just adding numbers together. It 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:06.560 turns out that there's a math that is the quantum 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:07.520 mechanics shown. 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:07.800 To be true. 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:11.880 It's more like a group theory type structure. And the 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:15.080 way quantum works is it has a different mathos are primitive, 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:18.240 and if we can exploit that new math and build 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.560 a machine that does it, it allows us to answer 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:23.640 different questions. And so think of it as a branching 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:27.120 from classical compute that is very good at adding just 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.320 numbers together to something that allows us to work with 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:35.200 an algebra that is much much harder to represent with addition. 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:38.520 And that algebra happens to be the same algebra that 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:42.520 defines the fundamental equations of nature shirting as equation. So 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:44.800 this is why you say it computes the same way 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:48.360 nature does. But there are many other interesting problems. So 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.120 the way I explain it to people is think of 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:56.200 it as bringing a new primitive to computer science and 0:09:56.400 --> 0:10:00.160 allowing us to work how to go with it. And 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:03.240 I like the analogy. Well, actually, maybe go back. So 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:06.080 if you went back in time, so we're one hundred 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.600 years of quantum, and you went back in time and 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:12.160 you asked, what is the foundation? Is a chemistry or physics. 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:14.719 What would have probably the scientists of one hundred years 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:17.040 ago would have said is they would have said, you know, 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:20.400 chemistry is about the small, physics is about planets and 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:24.640 things like this. And one hundred years ago when Heisenberg 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:30.239 or Einstein, all the greats, Schrodinger himself invented quantum mechanics, 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.679 it was this concept that nature is discreete not continuous. 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:37.480 It actually brought all the physical sciences together. And now 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:41.640 quantum mechanics is like it is the foundation of the science. 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:45.520 And so now what quantum computing is by that analogy 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:48.559 is computer science. The foundation of the math is coming 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:52.000 together with the physical science to allow us to compute 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:55.400 using math that if you were to try to represent 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:58.880 it with classical computers, it takes exponential time. 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:03.120 Yeah, it was a classical computer and an expense in 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:05.360 a way that someone is well informed as I am 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:09.440 can understand it. A customer computer works primarily on problems 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:12.920 that can be easily represented in numerical form in numbers. Yes, 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.920 quantum allows you to step outside to a class of 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:20.360 problems that don't necessarily have a simple numerical representation. 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:25.360 Yeah, and so imagine I got some medicine or or 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.440 some set of operation, but call it A and I 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.800 then follow it by a different operation B if A 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.200 followed by B gave a different answer than B first 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:38.480 followed by A. So in mathematics we call that commuting. 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:41.280 But like you can think of a correlation there one 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.400 one gives you a different outcome to the other. That 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:48.560 means there's an algebra behind it. That Representing that algebra 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:53.079 traditionally on classical computers is really really hard, whereas that algebra, 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:55.840 if we can get creative, we can come up with 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:58.760 ways of representing that math. So we step as you say, 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.800 we step out aside of the simple math to a 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:06.240 new math to allow us to calculate interesting problems. 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:10.360 So quite in a sense, compliments it doesn't replace judicial. 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:10.840 That's good. 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:13.320 I think this is one of the this is you're 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:16.199 exactly on is people think quantum is going to be 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:19.400 replacing classical If your problem is good at adding numbers together, 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:23.120 you should just keep using classical computers. I think the 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:26.480 future is going to be heterogeneous accelerators, and it will 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:29.640 definitely have quantum as one. But in some sense, the 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.800 next generation of superstars are going to be those applied 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:36.800 mathematicians that know, how do I write a problem using 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:40.240 the simple math of classical computers or the more complicated 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.960 math for quantum computers, and how do I actually iterate 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.760 between them? And things like this? This is where I 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.559 think the next generation of students are going to come 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:51.560 up with much more novel ideas. I can give you 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:54.080 examples of what we want to do on quantum, but like, 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:59.520 you're giving them a fundamental, foundational new thing, and so 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:03.520 I'm optimistic that will do much better jobs than my generation. 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:06.160 Well, yeah, we're to get to some of the albums 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:08.640 in a moment, but I wanted you to the most 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.600 kind of down to you said, as a kid, you 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:13.360 thought you might want to be a mechanic because you'd 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.080 like to build things. Describe to me what it takes 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:20.439 to build a quantum computer, Like, what are you doing 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:22.360 that's different from building a classical computer. 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:25.240 Yeah, so maybe I'll give you analogy and then i'll 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.800 go in so the way classical computers, we've got them 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:33.960 to get to smaller and smaller sizes like five seven animeters, 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:38.960 five animeters and things is actually inventing material to kill 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:43.680 quantum effects, so you actually put dielectrics and other things 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:46.680 in there. To kill the quantum tunneling effects, and you 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:51.600 want them to behave more classically. In the quantum world, 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:53.960 you want to get rid of all the classical effects, 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:56.760 So you want to get rid of the ability of 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.680 the cubits to interact with the environment. And in the 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.160 in the sort of technical world, we call it this 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.400 quantum conflict. The more ways you want to control the 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:09.640 quantum computer, you open it up to interacting with everything else, 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:13.200 like interacting with its environment. So the biggest challenge has 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:17.800 always been how do we give more control but don't 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:21.280 bring in other sources of noise. So I want to 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:24.360 be able to do gates on the cubit, but I 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:27.760 don't want it to decohere. I want to couple the cubits, 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:30.400 but I don't want them to couple to other things. 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:35.120 So the hardest challenge is the energy inside the cubits 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.440 is a nine gigahertz, and if your tames that by 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:41.440 HBO tend to the neggave thirty four with nine, you're 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.640 at a tender the negative twenty like three or something 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.120 in energy. That's a tiny amount of energy. So you're 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:51.320 trying to have a tiny, tiny amount of energy to control, 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:55.160 and you don't want that to interact with anything, So 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:57.800 you have to cool them down, you have to isolate them, 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:01.360 and you have to make the quantum effects dominate over 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:02.480 the classical effects. 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.960 So practically, if I'm trying to do that right now, 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:08.120 how big are these machines. 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:10.880 So the cubits themselves are not that big. So the 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:15.600 cubits themselves are like a few microns. But yeah, most 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:17.960 of the size so you can see some of our 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.240 I got the pleasure of showing you around to one 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:22.400 of the machines in Yorktown. You saw that they're like 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.920 twenty foot by twenty foot in size. Most of that 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:30.800 is all that equipment to isolate the cubit chip, which 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:33.480 is only a few millimeters when you put it together 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:37.360 from the rest of the environment. We will, as we 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:41.040 get better at that, miniaturize all the isolation. But that's 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.800 cooling it down to a few milli calvin, so about 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:48.560 a thousand times colder than outer space. It's isolating the 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:52.280 noise on any electrical signal so that no noise from 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.720 the outside world gets into the system. And so that's 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:59.120 a lot of isolators, filters, and things like that that 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:01.920 we've had to invent and to allow us to make 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:03.800 the quantum properties of this chip go. 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:06.880 It's like the Princess and the pe mounds and mounds 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:10.520 and mounds of mattresses trying to isolate the impact of 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:12.720 this little thing, and that maybe. 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.360 That's the best way to describe it. Yeah, and you've 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:17.080 got to keep it really really prestige. 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:19.240 But that when you show me. So in the in 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:23.040 the lobby of the Watson Research Center in New Yorktown, 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.120 which by the way, is just the coolest building. It's 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:30.920 like a it's like a modernist it's also master piece. Anyway, 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:34.600 in the lobby there's there are these is it two machines. 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:39.120 It's it's inside a container that has three machines machines. 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:41.760 So what can you can you tell me what would 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:43.760 one of those machines cost to build right now? 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:48.560 So typically we put them together in a way where 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.760 we upgrade them because we want to as I as 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:54.000 I was talking about before, one of the things we 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:57.680 want to do is always get algorithms done on our machines. 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:01.360 And I've got a roadmap of build bigger and bigger machines. 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.320 So usually one of those quantum processes today is out 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:09.480 of date in six months so we want to build 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:13.480 this future of computing that leverages quantum computing, where every 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:19.239 six months we've outdated a quantum processor. Eventually, hopefully we 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:22.320 get to a point where it's like stable and it 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:25.680 can be many years operating. But we want to get 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.960 as large a quantum computer in the hands of people 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:31.199 to explore the math as possible to come up with 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:34.119 those new algorithms. So we've had a philosophy of having 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:37.959 them open, working with universities and things like that. So 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:40.159 to answer a question of costs, yes, there's cost in 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.360 building the system, but we are operating in them much 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:46.360 more in a service model where people pay to use 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:50.199 the machine because we have to continuously calibrate it and 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:55.400 operate it and so depending on various different things. Professors, 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:57.960 we have a credits program where they get free access 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:02.040 some universities and animal prizes. They can buy premium access 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:05.040 and get more access. So think of not like a 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.199 cost of it, because it's almost like a continuum. I 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.320 want to make sure that the best quantum processors that 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:14.320 I can build get in the hands of students and 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:18.280 professors and interested enterprises that want to explore these machines 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.879 as fast as possible, and typically every six months we 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:22.480 upgrade it. 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:24.920 Yeah, you don't start over, you upgrade. 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:30.359 We upgrade various different pieces, the processor, the electronics. Some 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:35.200 upgrades are just simply replaced the processor. But as an example, 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:38.080 I think many people have probably seen photos of quantum 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:41.040 computers and you see this scary thing with all these 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:44.520 wires hanging down, as I've referred to as the chandelier, 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:47.040 and it's got all these wires with loops and things 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:50.440 like that. They're called co x keebles. When we first 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.000 put the quantum computer on the cloud in twenty sixteen, 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:58.160 you could probably only fit about fifty cubits inside one cryostat. 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:01.040 We've had to upgrade all those cables so that we 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:03.399 can fit around one thousand. I want to get to 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:07.280 three thousand, and that's about miniaturizing it. So to answer 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:09.680 your question, an upgrade, it depends. It can be either 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:12.879 just the processor or it can be the complete insides. 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:16.520 And we're actually in our third generation of our electronics 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:21.520 to control the systems, to make them faster, less noise. Internally, 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:25.960 we've got exciting results of going to something like cold cryocemos, 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:29.119 so you can bring down the cost in terms of 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:33.639 energy of running these quantum computers almost negligible, and you 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:37.240 could imagine future quantum computers. I'm not going to require 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:41.240 much energy to run, so unlike classical compute that requires 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:44.159 lots of energy. The biggest machines that we envision is 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:47.080 only in the few megawatts. But we have to upgrade 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:51.440 to future controls that use less energy. So it depends. 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:56.080 It's my long answer, short answer to how it upgrades, 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:57.239 and it depends on what it is. 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:00.639 The only observation that I felt I could with making 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:04.159 when you showed me the quantum machine is it's gorgeous. 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:05.600 I look at art. 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:09.399 I've always believed that, and I think that there's an 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:12.560 IBM saying good design is good business. But we've always 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:17.280 taken pride in making sure what we build. I don't know. 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:20.080 I feel if you're going to build something that is 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:24.199 new that can change, you should take the time to 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:26.080 make sure it looks and feels good. 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:28.960 Will you donated to MoMA when you're through with that 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:33.160 particular Actually, I think we just put. 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:36.480 An old version of one of our insights with the 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:40.840 United Airlines and the AAPS, which is the American Physical Society, 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:43.960 and the University of Chicago. There's a replica right now. 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:46.640 If you fly into one of the terminals in Chicago, 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:48.320 you can walk and see one. 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:51.199 Oh really yeah, well the most advanced thing at all air. 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:54.720 I'm sure probably, but yeah, I hopefully, I think, yeah, 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:57.919 we're open to that. But yeah, I appreciate that you 0:20:57.960 --> 0:20:59.720 love the design. It was beautiful. 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:03.080 So I last week I interviewed for another episode of 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:08.400 Smart TALX your CEO, Ivin Kushner, And when we got 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:12.920 to the quantum question, I mean, he's always alliant and brilliant, 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:17.320 but quantum, he's like lit up. I mean right in 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:22.080 thinking that IBM is much more invested in quantum than 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:24.880 anybody else. Is that a fair statement? Oh yeah, most definitely. 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:28.359 Why Why did IBM choose to kind of make this 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:29.200 such a priority. 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:32.679 So when I took to the history of the physics side, 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:36.440 there's this interesting thing in the history of computing. So 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:41.240 we build computer classical computers today using bits and sea moss, 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:44.040 and they consume energy. Do you know that there is 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:47.960 a way in classical where you can actually compute without 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:51.480 using energy. It's called reversal computing. Turns out to be 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:56.400 a terrible idea. It's not practical to build. But IBM 0:21:56.680 --> 0:22:00.760 investigated that with Ralph Laura and Charlie ban It early 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:04.600 on and they proved the concept that reversible computing. The 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:08.280 first use of quantum information theory, one of the first 0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:12.239 actually was from IBM. When I did my PhD, I 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:16.199 remember actually picking up this paper on quantum teleportation and 0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:18.840