Speaker 1: Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Comeback Stories. Darren Waller,
Speaker 2: one year co host. I'm here as always with my
Speaker 2: brother and my friend, mister Donnie Starkins, and we have
Speaker 2: an amazing guest today on with us. Somebody who's from
Speaker 2: their last name. He may recognize them as a member
Speaker 2: of a legendary gospel family, but somebody that's carved her
Speaker 2: own path, not only singing but acting as well. And
Speaker 2: we'd love to welcome missus, Deborah Joy Wine us to
Speaker 2: the show. Deborah Joy. Deborah Joy, how you doing not Deborah?
Speaker 3: I love it, Deborah Joy projecting, I love it.
Speaker 4: Hi, how are you all?
Speaker 5: We're doing fantastic good.
Speaker 4: I'm very happy to be here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, it's lovely to have you here.
Speaker 2: When we talk about comeback Stories and the adversity that
Speaker 2: people have faced in their orn along the way, we
Speaker 2: felt like we always had to go back to the
Speaker 2: childhood to you know, get some answers and to see
Speaker 2: where everything started. And so could you paint a picture
Speaker 2: of what growing up was like, where it was, what
Speaker 2: your family situation was, what was going on in your head.
Speaker 5: Just take us through it, Okay.
Speaker 3: Growing up, I am from Detroit, Michigan, born and raised
Speaker 3: into a very very big family. So family is truly
Speaker 3: all I've ever known. Grew up in church, love the Lord.
Speaker 3: That is truly my foundation. We were probably in church
Speaker 3: more than we were in school. It's just it was
Speaker 3: it made me really who I am today. But grew
Speaker 3: up in church, and I was always with my family,
Speaker 3: my brothers, my aunts, my uncles, all of my family sang.
Speaker 3: And when I was getting ready to graduate from high school,
Speaker 3: I knew that singing was not something I loved.
Speaker 4: I wanted to act. And when I told my family,
Speaker 4: they were.
Speaker 3: Like, oh, okay, well what else do you want to
Speaker 3: do because they had never seen me do it. But
Speaker 3: for some reason, it was just it was a passion,
Speaker 3: it was a dream. It was something that was just
Speaker 3: in my bones that I could not let go of.
Speaker 3: And so I went to Wayne State, which was also
Speaker 3: in Detroit with Wayne State University, and I majored in theater.
Speaker 3: And my family, particularly my brothers and my parents came
Speaker 3: to my first show at Wayne State and they were like, Okay,
Speaker 3: this is what you do. But for a lot of
Speaker 3: my family. That just wasn't the entertainment business as far
Speaker 3: as acting and the things that you could see on
Speaker 3: screen and the things that people would do that wasn't
Speaker 3: truly something that people of faith would do.
Speaker 4: But for me, that was.
Speaker 3: What I felt God had put in my heart, in
Speaker 3: my spirit, in my soul, and so I just followed
Speaker 3: the dream that I fully believe God gave me, even
Speaker 3: though there were a lot of doubts in my family,
Speaker 3: and not doubts that I could do it, but doubts
Speaker 3: that I should do it, doubts that it was what
Speaker 3: God had for me. But I believe that God gives
Speaker 3: you the vision for your life and others will catch
Speaker 3: on eventually, and if they don't, they don't. But it's
Speaker 3: all good. You are following what God has given you.
Speaker 3: But it was very, very difficult. A lot of times
Speaker 3: I would look at my family and think, maybe they're right,
Speaker 3: maybe I'm in the wrong place. Is God gonna bless this?
Speaker 3: Can he bless this? Does He really know my heart?
Speaker 3: Does He know that I love him? Just wondering that
Speaker 3: if a life of faith and the dreams that I
Speaker 3: had could coexist. So that was sort of my journey
Speaker 3: growing up, and I'm a big family girl, a big
Speaker 3: family girl. Like if my family was singing somewhere, I
Speaker 3: was the number one fan. I was the person screaming
Speaker 3: like I had never heard them sing before. I was
Speaker 3: the person dancing in the aisle. I was the person
Speaker 3: cheering when you needed to be quiet. And that is
Speaker 3: the person that I still am today. I was always
Speaker 3: going to champion everybody in my family because I believed
Speaker 3: in them, and so I found it difficult when I
Speaker 3: got to a place of really focusing in on the
Speaker 3: thing that I really felt like God had given me
Speaker 3: to do, and I didn't see all of them cheering
Speaker 3: in the background for me.
Speaker 4: But that was that was my life growing up.
Speaker 2: I know that takes a lot of courage to to
Speaker 2: step into at some point because I remember me as
Speaker 2: a kid. I knew I had, you know, gifts and
Speaker 2: callings in music and in other areas, but I knew
Speaker 2: I was I was really good at sports as well,
Speaker 2: and that's what you know, people kind of know me
Speaker 2: for now.
Speaker 5: But I didn't have the courage to be different.
Speaker 2: I was so afraid of not being seen as normal
Speaker 2: or not being able to fit in and just be
Speaker 2: loved and accepted that. I was like, I'm just gonna
Speaker 2: do what everybody else says. It's cool what everybody else
Speaker 2: says is is, and that's a little different than your journey.
Speaker 2: But just as far as talking to the getting to
Speaker 2: the place of courage and stepping out and saying, hey,
Speaker 2: this is my journey and being comfortable in your own skin.
Speaker 2: I didn't feel comfortable in my own skin until probably
Speaker 2: twenty seven years old and having to go through a lot,
Speaker 2: God having to take me through a lot. So to
Speaker 2: see that courage that you must up, like how how
Speaker 2: is that possible? Like how do you? How do you
Speaker 2: arrive there? For somebody like is it they have to
Speaker 2: go through their own journey to get there?
Speaker 3: Absolutely think I think it's I think it's going through
Speaker 3: your own journey.
Speaker 4: But I think it's really love you.
Speaker 3: I have found that it is very difficult to move
Speaker 3: forward towards your destiny, your dreams, your goals when you
Speaker 3: don't fully love you, and I mean love every piece
Speaker 3: of you, the piece of you that you think, oh,
Speaker 3: I need to change that. That's not good because we
Speaker 3: all have flaws, we all have things that as we
Speaker 3: grow we're like, oh, maybe that's not the best character trait.
Speaker 3: But if we don't see it and recognize it and
Speaker 3: love ourselves, it is hard to make a change. And
Speaker 3: so I think the thing that I would tell people
Speaker 3: to find the courage means to find the love of you.
Speaker 3: And I think when you love you and you love
Speaker 3: who God has created you to be, as you grow
Speaker 3: and as you journey in this life, you'll see the
Speaker 3: things that Ah, Okay, I think I want to change that.
Speaker 4: And that's fine.
Speaker 3: Okay, you know this, this was okay for now. But
Speaker 3: you know, I think I'm moving higher. I think God
Speaker 3: is taking me somewhere different. I think I'm growing in
Speaker 3: a different way, and I want to let that go.
Speaker 3: I want to shed that. That's been the biggest thing
Speaker 3: that has helped me, and that has been It's come
Speaker 3: in phases, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: I didn't just like.
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm still going to go to school for theater
Speaker 3: and it's going to be fine.
Speaker 4: I didn't feel that way at all.
Speaker 3: I did it, but I did not feel like I
Speaker 3: was courageous at all. I just was like, I think
Speaker 3: I'm by myself, but I did my BFA. I'm the
Speaker 3: first person in the Wining's family to get a bachelor's degree.
Speaker 4: So I got my BFA.
Speaker 3: I spent a month in Moscow at the Moscow Art
Speaker 3: Theater School, and then I moved to La got my
Speaker 3: MFA in acting from cal Arts. I just kept going,
Speaker 3: kept going because I felt like if this was the
Speaker 3: gift that I knew God gave me, I just wanted
Speaker 3: to make it sharp.
Speaker 4: I wanted to make it great. I wanted to be excellent.
Speaker 4: So all of that is part of the journey of
Speaker 4: loving yourself.
Speaker 3: I found that I am doing the thing that I know,
Speaker 3: I love, that God has given me to do. So
Speaker 3: I think that I fell in love with that piece
Speaker 3: of me, the hard work, the discipline piece of me.
Speaker 3: And then as things started to pick up, and you know,
Speaker 3: things were happening and I was doing the very thing
Speaker 3: that I love, I still got different things from people
Speaker 3: close to me that I deemed mentors, people that I
Speaker 3: would go to and talk to about everything in life,
Speaker 3: Upset that I was doing what I was doing, Upset
Speaker 3: sort of at my career trajectory and at the choices
Speaker 3: that I had made. And so it wasn't until about
Speaker 3: maybe I just turned forty, So it wasn't until maybe
Speaker 3: thirty like thirty five, I started feeling it. I was like,
Speaker 3: you know what, it's fine. I have my husband, I'm good,
Speaker 3: I know what God has given me, and I'm going
Speaker 3: to courageously walk into this new life, this journey. I
Speaker 3: am going to fully be me, no exceptions. I'm not
Speaker 3: feeling bad because someone else doesn't agree.
Speaker 4: But then, baby, when.
Speaker 3: I was about to have my baby, I had just
Speaker 3: turned thirty eight, and I did this pregnancy reveal with essence,
Speaker 3: and I thought it was fabulous. And then someone very
Speaker 3: close to me didn't like that and told me that
Speaker 3: was not of God and all these things, and I thought, oh,
Speaker 3: that was the last bit of shedding that I needed.
Speaker 3: I am boldly standing in who I am. I want
Speaker 3: to tell you can't tell me nothing. I had a
Speaker 3: baby at a age where everyone says, this is.
Speaker 4: What do they call it?
Speaker 3: It's they call it a certain type of pregnancy, a geriatric.
Speaker 6: Baby.
Speaker 4: They call you geriatric after like.
Speaker 3: Thirty three or something, and so they're already saying it's
Speaker 3: a geriatric pregnancy. They're already saying I had a I
Speaker 3: had a fibroid that was twenty two centimeters. So when
Speaker 3: I got pregnant, the doctor's initial response was, Oh, we
Speaker 3: should get rid of this, because there's no way this
Speaker 3: baby you'll be able to grow with this fibroid.
Speaker 4: We need to get rid of it start over.
Speaker 3: And I looked at my husband and he was like, well,
Speaker 3: is she going to be okay? And the doctor said, well,
Speaker 3: she'll be fine, but she'll probably be in the worst
Speaker 3: pain of her life. And I said, well, if it's pain,
Speaker 3: then we're gonna fight, We're gonna hold on. And was
Speaker 3: it painful, Yes, the worst pain of my life. Did
Speaker 3: I feel like I was living on eggshells because the
Speaker 3: doctor said, I don't know if you'll make it past
Speaker 3: eighteen weeks.
Speaker 4: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: I had to have a surgery in the middle of
Speaker 3: my pregnancy to make sure the baby didn't come too soon.
Speaker 3: And the doctor was like, get me to twenty eight weeks.
Speaker 3: And we prayed and we believed, and I was in
Speaker 3: a place where, for the first time in my life,
Speaker 3: I could not see the other side of the circumstances.
Speaker 3: I feel like in every other circumstance, whether it felt
Speaker 3: good or not, I just knew God was gonna give
Speaker 3: me to the other side. This was the first time
Speaker 3: where I was like I can't even see what the
Speaker 3: other side is. I don't know if I'm half this baby.
Speaker 3: I don't know what's happening to me, Like, I just
Speaker 3: don't know. And when we got to twenty eight weeks
Speaker 3: and we had a baby shower, I took a breath
Speaker 3: and I was like, God, you did this. And so
Speaker 3: once I had a baby, I was like, you can't
Speaker 3: tell me nothing. I'm not sure who you think you are,
Speaker 3: but I do know who God has created.
Speaker 6: Me to be.
Speaker 4: And so it took me levels.
Speaker 3: It took me moment by moment to walk through this
Speaker 3: journey and to find courage in each circumstance.
Speaker 4: So this has been a build up of courage.
Speaker 7: Wow, there's so much there going back to I was
Speaker 7: having breakfast today with a mutual friend of Darren and
Speaker 7: I is His name is David g. He's an amazing
Speaker 7: meditation teacher here out in California, and I was telling
Speaker 7: him who our guest was and he goes, you realize,
Speaker 7: you know, you're interviewing this is music royalty, you know,
Speaker 7: And he was just like breaking it down because he's
Speaker 7: just he's.
Speaker 6: Into all that and just really knows the details.
Speaker 7: And I kept thinking, like, how do you, And Darren
Speaker 7: kind of asked this question, but how do you find
Speaker 7: your own in a family of royalty like that, especially
Speaker 7: when you've got the royalty piece of it, You've got
Speaker 7: projection of people's interpretation of religious beliefs and what is
Speaker 7: the right or wrong thing to do.
Speaker 6: So yeah, I mean, I know you walked us through.
Speaker 7: That, but I'm just thinking about how challenging that would
Speaker 7: be with the domestication process of just growing up and
Speaker 7: you know, people telling us we need to do certain
Speaker 7: things in order to be successful.
Speaker 4: Oh. Absolutely.
Speaker 3: I think I've learned from watching having a front row
Speaker 3: seat to sort of what this life in the entertainment
Speaker 3: industry has looked like for my family and what I've
Speaker 3: always kept in mind, even when sometimes it was some
Speaker 3: of them telling me, oh no, no, Joy, that's that's
Speaker 3: not it. They broke barriers at a time where the
Speaker 3: music that they started singing seemed.
Speaker 4: Secular to most Christians.
Speaker 3: A lot of people thought that their music was the
Speaker 3: devil's music because it just didn't sound like traditional gospel music.
Speaker 4: But they persevered.
Speaker 3: They kept going because they felt like it was what
Speaker 3: God had given them to do, and ultimately got used
Speaker 3: that to really break barriers, to set a standard, to
Speaker 3: create a foundation that we have lived on, that we
Speaker 3: have been grateful for, I think for generations to come.
Speaker 4: So for me, I keep that in mind.
Speaker 3: While they may not see it, I know that they recognize,
Speaker 3: Oh you guys just don't see it. You don't have
Speaker 3: the vision. And that's okay, we have it. You'll catch
Speaker 3: on eventually. So I think that I've kept that as
Speaker 3: something to sort of hold on to and go back
Speaker 3: to when I'm feeling like, oh joy, this doesn't look
Speaker 3: like everybody else, it doesn't have to for me. I
Speaker 3: never singing was never my passion, that was never my love.
Speaker 3: I have sense, you know, if I talk to kids
Speaker 3: or just have a conversation really with anyone who asks
Speaker 3: how did you get into the industry, or what do
Speaker 3: you like about the industry singing. While it has never
Speaker 3: been a passion of mine, it is a gift. And
Speaker 3: I tell people use every gift that God has given you,
Speaker 3: because you don't know when you will be called upon
Speaker 3: to use it. And truly that gift is not for you.
Speaker 3: It is meant for the world. It is meant to
Speaker 3: touch somebody somewhere somehow. And so my only thing is
Speaker 3: I wish I would have also given as much time
Speaker 3: and focus and practice and discipline to my singing.
Speaker 4: But all in all, this was just.
Speaker 3: A step by step sort of situation, and people will
Speaker 3: either get on the bandwagon or they won't. But it
Speaker 3: is difficult feeling like the very people that see you
Speaker 3: don't really see you. But also look trust God. That
Speaker 3: is my biggest advice that I can give to anybody.
Speaker 3: Trust God. Trust that gut instinct that you have, because
Speaker 3: you don't want to look back and think I didn't
Speaker 3: do this when I wanted to do it because so
Speaker 3: and so said something? Who is so and so? Are
Speaker 3: you about to pay all my bills? Are you about
Speaker 3: to set me up for life? Are you about to
Speaker 3: you know, no, you're not doing any of those things.
Speaker 3: So recognizing someone's perspective and their ideas versus what God
Speaker 3: has given you and what.
Speaker 4: You want to do, I think that's that's the key.
Speaker 2: He come back to trusting God, and I'm the same way.
Speaker 2: I don't know how I would have gotten through the
Speaker 2: things that I've survived and just able to hold up
Speaker 2: the weight that I have on me today without him.
Speaker 2: And I feel like I love for you to dive
Speaker 2: into how you developed like an authentic love for the Lord,
Speaker 2: because I feel like even with me growing up, I was,
Speaker 2: you know, I want to My family was you know,
Speaker 2: always in church, but church felt like a chore and
Speaker 2: it felt like an obligation. And my religion was almost
Speaker 2: transactional with God, like if I if I read the Bible,
Speaker 2: if I went to you know, Bible study or midweek church,
Speaker 2: that God owed me a blessing. But and then when
Speaker 2: things got rough in my life, I didn't really I
Speaker 2: felt like God was judging me and condemning me as
Speaker 2: opposed to having that real relationship. So how how does
Speaker 2: one go about developing a love of the Lord and
Speaker 2: a loving relationship with him?
Speaker 4: You know, That's a really good question. And I think
Speaker 4: for me.
Speaker 3: It was the foundation that my family set, and I
Speaker 3: think that you don't always have to agree on everything
Speaker 3: to recognize the good in something.
Speaker 4: And I think it.
Speaker 3: Was the six Aim prayers that I did not want
Speaker 3: to go to, but our parents woke us up and
Speaker 3: made us go. Because while I don't remember just getting
Speaker 3: there and getting on my knees and praying real hard,
Speaker 3: I do remember being next to my grandma and hearing
Speaker 3: how she would pray. She talked to the Lord very
Speaker 3: matter of fact. It didn't have to be this big voice,
Speaker 3: it didn't have to be these incredible words.
Speaker 4: Her vocabulary didn't have to be through the roof.
Speaker 3: It was Lord, I love you, Lord, I thank you, Lord,
Speaker 3: I thank you for waking me up. I thank you
Speaker 3: for a mind to want to love you, to want
Speaker 3: to do right. Thank you for my family. And so
Speaker 3: I would hear the way she prayed, and I thought, oh,
Speaker 3: I can do that.
Speaker 4: That's not difficult.
Speaker 3: And then I would hear the way my grandfather, just
Speaker 3: the joy that he would have talking about the Lord
Speaker 3: and everything God had done for him, and then I
Speaker 3: would see it in my own life. So I went
Speaker 3: from hearing my parents pray, hearing my grandma pray, seeing
Speaker 3: my grandfather pray and testify to the things that God
Speaker 3: had done, things that he had seen, and then seeing
Speaker 3: God in my life pray for certain things and then
Speaker 3: they happen, and I'm like, ooh.
Speaker 4: Okay, this is okay, all right.
Speaker 3: But then I think the biggest thing for me was
Speaker 3: holding on to it when adversity came, when it felt
Speaker 3: like I wasn't enough, when it felt like everything I
Speaker 3: did just didn't add up, and like, God, where are you?
Speaker 3: I don't understand. I think my faith and my love
Speaker 3: increased circumstance by circumstance as I saw God.
Speaker 4: Through it all.
Speaker 3: You know, it's easy to praise Him when everything is wonderful.
Speaker 3: It is very difficult to still say thank you Lord
Speaker 3: when you're in the middle of a storm, when you
Speaker 3: are in the middle of not being able to see
Speaker 3: your way out. And I think I've learned that even
Speaker 3: through that. Like I spoke about being, I was working
Speaker 3: on set when well, I found out I was pregnant.
Speaker 3: Then I had to go and do a job. So
Speaker 3: I was working on a set without my husband, newly pregnant,
Speaker 3: in an immense amount of pain, and I literally said,
Speaker 3: I don't know where God is. What did I do
Speaker 3: to be in this wilderness? Like, I don't understand? And
Speaker 3: then I started to change my perspective and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 3: if I feel like I'm in a wilderness, Lord, what
Speaker 3: are you trying to show me? Have I not been
Speaker 3: depending on you enough? I am very happy to say
Speaker 3: that I married Well. When I tell you I love
Speaker 3: my husband, it is the best yes I've ever said
Speaker 3: in my life second to loving Jesus, I'm so very
Speaker 3: grateful he has shown me how to love myself the
Speaker 3: way I need to. So, you know, choosing a spouse
Speaker 3: is a really choose right because they can lead you
Speaker 3: into your destiny. And so I think for me, I
Speaker 3: started to see I've started to trust the gift more
Speaker 3: than the giver. I started leaning so much on my
Speaker 3: husband that I forgot about my relationship with the Lord
Speaker 3: and everything. For me, everything is flowing from him. And
Speaker 3: so I think for me, I started finding lessons in
Speaker 3: the wilderness.
Speaker 4: It's like, I don't want to be here.
Speaker 3: I don't know why I'm here, But you know what,
Speaker 3: let's figure that out so that I don't have to
Speaker 3: come here again. And so I think my love has
Speaker 3: to just continue to develop from stage to stage.
Speaker 4: But it's simple.
Speaker 3: It's loving the Lord and learning how much he loves
Speaker 3: me and trusting that even in the hard times.
Speaker 7: Darren, I got to say, Man, I'm loving how you've
Speaker 7: really made yourself at home in the big city. I'm curious,
Speaker 7: how are you getting around?
Speaker 6: You a subway guy, cab uber.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you're asked, Donnie, Man, I'm a got the
Speaker 2: honor to partner with All American Forward over in New Jersey.
Speaker 2: They've been taking really good care of me since I
Speaker 2: got out here, and that's why I love the most
Speaker 2: about it. Man, they treat me like I'm family, not
Speaker 2: just a customer trying to get a deal or just
Speaker 2: a statistic.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: They give me great service. You could tell they got
Speaker 2: to commitment to quality. The innovation is unmatched. And just
Speaker 2: so if anybody's you know, like me, trying to get
Speaker 2: around in New Jersey, don't know where to go, I'm
Speaker 2: telling you go check out All American Forward here in Jersey.
Speaker 2: They gon'n take real good care of you.
Speaker 7: When we come back, you'll hear more of this inspiring
Speaker 7: comeback story.
Speaker 6: It's beautiful.
Speaker 7: I wanted to tie back your faith with I love
Speaker 7: how you dove right into loving yourself in the beginning.
Speaker 6: And just for some context, that's been a theme of
Speaker 6: mine for the.
Speaker 7: Last probably ten years with my brand, and I have
Speaker 7: a retreat every year in January. I do in so
Speaker 7: Doana call love Yourself. And the reason why I've been
Speaker 7: so passionate about this message is because no matter where
Speaker 7: I go and teach or speak or do some type
Speaker 7: of event. There's a common theme that we don't love
Speaker 7: ourselves enough. Whether it's the way that we have that
Speaker 7: not enough story hijacking our life, or it's the way
Speaker 7: we critique our body, or when we must make a
Speaker 7: mistake or fail in some way, or or feeling inadequate,
Speaker 7: or it's when we're putting everybody else's needs before our
Speaker 7: own needs. That is the common theme. It's like everywhere
Speaker 7: I go. And so I've been so passionate about this
Speaker 7: message because I've seen the damage that it's done, not
Speaker 7: only to myself but to the people that I'm exposed to.
Speaker 6: So how do you feel like for you, how.
Speaker 7: Does the security of knowing that you are fully loved
Speaker 7: by God? How does that help you with your own
Speaker 7: self love and not allowing that not enough story to
Speaker 7: creep in, Especially in the industry that you're in, which
Speaker 7: I would have to imagine there's a lot of there's
Speaker 7: a lot of rejection.
Speaker 3: Ooh, there's a lot of rejection. That's a really, really,
Speaker 3: really good question, Donnie. I think that when you fully know,
Speaker 3: so if we're saying God loves us unconditionally, and that's
Speaker 3: been a big thing for me because I think a
Speaker 3: lot of times people put God in things that God
Speaker 3: is like, I ain't got none to do with that play.
Speaker 3: God is love, And if you don't have love, then
Speaker 3: I really truly don't know what you have. And so
Speaker 3: when you recognize that love is who God is and
Speaker 3: that he loves you unconditionally right now as you are,
Speaker 3: with all the flaws, you see, God loves you. When
Speaker 3: I recognize that, I think there was something that.
Speaker 4: Really just sort of switched in me. If the creator
Speaker 4: of this universe.
Speaker 3: Loves me unconditionally the way that I am, who are
Speaker 3: you to tell me that I'm not great? Who are
Speaker 3: you to tell me that I can't do this? And
Speaker 3: then even to yourself when you start thinking, which I
Speaker 3: have so much being in this industry, Oh they wanted
Speaker 3: the light skinned girl. Oh they said dark skin isn't
Speaker 3: pretty enough. Oh I'm not thin enough. Oh I'm not.
Speaker 4: There's so many you're not You're not.
Speaker 3: I've had to tell myself and people don't realize how
Speaker 3: powerful language is. The tongue is very powerful, and you
Speaker 3: have to speak life to yourself. So I've had to
Speaker 3: change my atmosphere. I've had to change what people are
Speaker 3: sort of downloading into me, Oh, they said you're not.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, well I am. They just didn't they wanted
Speaker 3: something different, you know what I mean. So I've had
Speaker 3: to have my daily sort of affirmations. You are beautiful,
Speaker 3: you are smart, you are intelligent, You are where you're
Speaker 3: meant to be. A lot of times we look at
Speaker 3: other people's journeys and we think I should be there. No, no, no,
Speaker 3: you don't know what they've gone through to get there.
Speaker 3: You don't know what their journey has been. Like your
Speaker 3: journey is for you stay in your lane, and I
Speaker 3: think that that has been.
Speaker 4: What has helped me. Does that make sense?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 6: I think it's no matter what you choose to believe in.
Speaker 6: I think it's so important. Darren and I have talked about.
Speaker 7: This, how faith relieves us from the burden of excessive responsibility.
Speaker 6: But it's also having that relationship and understanding.
Speaker 7: That God is love, and if God is love and
Speaker 7: we are one with God, then we are loved and
Speaker 7: we are love. And if we truly know that and
Speaker 7: we have that faith, and anything that comes up in
Speaker 7: our lives, whether it's a relationship, a job, an opportunity,
Speaker 7: if not this something better, if not.
Speaker 6: This something better, like that.
Speaker 7: That affirmation has always stayed with me, that true knowing
Speaker 7: that it's all happening for us and if this relationship
Speaker 7: isn't gonna work, there's gonna be something better. And that's
Speaker 7: really just like, help me a lot not be so
Speaker 7: attached to something that I think needs to.
Speaker 6: Be in my life.
Speaker 7: And yeah, God is usually moving it out of there
Speaker 7: to make space for something new. But we get hooked
Speaker 7: and attached and afraid that we're going to lose something
Speaker 7: and never find it again.
Speaker 4: We do and it's difficult. It is.
Speaker 3: It is very, very difficult. So I don't say it
Speaker 3: as like all you gotta do is you know, know
Speaker 3: that God is love and you're going to be great. No,
Speaker 3: it is very difficult. This is a daily thing for me.
Speaker 3: This is thank you Lord. I'm grateful for the journey
Speaker 3: that you've had me on.
Speaker 4: I am. And I think that as you get older,
Speaker 4: you're able you.
Speaker 3: Know, hindsight is twenty twenty. You are able to look
Speaker 3: back and be like, whoo, I see why I had
Speaker 3: to go through this, this, this, and this, I see
Speaker 3: and you see the character that has been developed in
Speaker 3: you and how God has groomed you to be who
Speaker 3: you're supposed to be for where you're going.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 3: I think that if I would have gotten everything I
Speaker 3: asked for at like twenty two, I honestly don't know
Speaker 3: where I would be. I don't think I would have
Speaker 3: my husband. I don't think I would have my son.
Speaker 3: I don't know that I would have this career. I
Speaker 3: don't know where I would be. So God knows what
Speaker 3: we can handle and also what I love. Oprah Winfrey
Speaker 3: once said, love is in the details. And God dreams
Speaker 3: bigger dreams for you than you can dream for yourself.
Speaker 3: So while you've got all these big dreams, God is
Speaker 3: dreaming bigger. So if this doesn't work, trust that God's
Speaker 3: dream for you is working and you're getting there.
Speaker 2: Man, I gotta put another layer on that, because one
Speaker 2: of the greatest books I've ever read is by a pastor.
Speaker 2: It's called The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry, And in the
Speaker 2: book he talks about how love and hurry are incompatible
Speaker 2: because love, love takes.
Speaker 5: Time, you know, and God being love, it may it.
Speaker 2: May take time for whatever your season is, whatever your
Speaker 2: journey is in you know, especially like whatever is for
Speaker 2: your purpose to be fulfilled. And I love to know, like,
Speaker 2: what has the journey been for you, Like when it
Speaker 2: comes to cultivating purpose, because you have tremendous gifts in
Speaker 2: multiple fields and maximizing those takes a lot of time,
Speaker 2: a lot of effort, a lot of resources.
Speaker 5: But how have you found purpose within all that?
Speaker 4: Dang, that's good.
Speaker 3: That's a good question, you know. I think one time
Speaker 3: I was just randomly singing. I'll just sing a song,
Speaker 3: not even really thinking about it. It just will happen.
Speaker 3: And one time someone I was working with on set
Speaker 3: just said, ooh, that just touched my soul. And I said, oh, huh,
Speaker 3: you're so silly, and she said, I'm very serious. I
Speaker 3: don't know what it is about your voice, but it
Speaker 3: goes right to my soul. It just got my like
Speaker 3: joy you need to And I went to my trophy and.
Speaker 4: I thought.
Speaker 3: That was just some random him that popped up. I
Speaker 3: wasn't trying to do anything fancy with it. It just
Speaker 3: sort of came from me.
Speaker 4: And I realized that God.
Speaker 3: Touches everything, and so when you sort of relinquish your
Speaker 3: control on things and you just trust that what it
Speaker 3: is you want to do and you start flowing from that,
Speaker 3: God is using that to touch so many people in
Speaker 3: so many different ways that you would never think of.
Speaker 3: And so I think for me, I've moved gradually in
Speaker 3: that way of just resting, assured that God is in it,
Speaker 3: if I'm moving with the right motivation, if I am
Speaker 3: recognizing that life is a journey, God is in all
Speaker 3: of it.
Speaker 4: God is in every relationship you're making.
Speaker 3: We're so we're so in a hurry to get to
Speaker 3: the thing that we think is the penultimate thing when
Speaker 3: we and we missed the in betweens. I just turned
Speaker 3: forty and I could not believe the amount of people
Speaker 3: that were at my birthday party. When I walked out,
Speaker 3: I was in tears because I saw so many faces
Speaker 3: and they knew every face, and to think that they
Speaker 3: were all part of my journey, and I would if
Speaker 3: I would have hurried and rushed through the journey, I
Speaker 3: wouldn't have some of these relationships and have shared so
Speaker 3: many moments with this person that said, oh my God,
Speaker 3: if it wasn't for you checking in on me, I
Speaker 3: just don't know what I would have done or prayed
Speaker 3: with this person when they felt like they had nobody
Speaker 3: that understood that prayer could work.
Speaker 4: When you rush through.
Speaker 3: Life, you missed the moments that God is trying to use.
Speaker 3: And when you have those moments, you can have a
Speaker 3: party and look out and see God in all of it.
Speaker 3: See every relationship, see whether it's work, whether it's friendship,
Speaker 3: whether it was romantic. You see God over your life
Speaker 3: when you don't rush through it. And I think for me,
Speaker 3: that has been my thing to just sort of move
Speaker 3: from a place of love and trust that even if
Speaker 3: I don't see it, if I don't recognize the gift,
Speaker 3: if I don't think it means anything, to know that
Speaker 3: maybe God is using it somewhere, somehow for somebody. And
Speaker 3: so I think it's like you said, it's not a hurry.
Speaker 3: You got to live this thing. You have to feel
Speaker 3: all of it, the good and the bad. And when
Speaker 3: you recognize that you have to feel.
Speaker 4: The good and the bad.
Speaker 3: I tend to trust that God is in all of
Speaker 3: it and He's gonna bring me through it. And so
Speaker 3: then you can look back and you can see his
Speaker 3: hand in every single thing. The circumstances that you thought
Speaker 3: were not necessary for your growth. You look back and
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, but I made this friend. Oh and
Speaker 3: I made this friend this has been a lifelong relationship.
Speaker 3: I've poured into them, They've poured into me. Where would
Speaker 3: I be if I didn't have this. That's my idea
Speaker 3: of it, just taking the journey and being happy with
Speaker 3: the journey, not trying to rush any peace of it.
Speaker 3: And when you don't rush it, you see God in
Speaker 3: all of it.
Speaker 7: I want to just take us back even to what
Speaker 7: you were saying about you singing and the person on
Speaker 7: set that heard you singing. And for me, I always
Speaker 7: say that God speaks to me through the mouths of
Speaker 7: other people.
Speaker 6: That's where I hear God the most.
Speaker 7: And as you were walking us through that that scenario,
Speaker 7: it was like she was hearing God through your voice.
Speaker 7: You were hearing God through her voice as a reminder
Speaker 7: of this gift.
Speaker 6: That you have.
Speaker 7: And then it brought me to kind of Darren and
Speaker 7: I talk a lot about the four Agreements and being
Speaker 7: impeccable with.
Speaker 6: Your word and how your word.
Speaker 7: You know, there's two two sides to the sword, and
Speaker 7: that your word can neither, you know, send love and light,
Speaker 7: or it can cut through like a like a sharp knife.
Speaker 6: And yeah, that was just a beautiful scenario.
Speaker 7: And I believe like if getting to the rushing that
Speaker 7: we talked about, like life only unfolds in moments. It's
Speaker 7: it's moment to moment, and if we're not present for
Speaker 7: those moments, we end up missing.
Speaker 6: Out on what's most valuable in our lives.
Speaker 7: And you know, I've heard you say like we're constantly
Speaker 7: looking for ways to prove, you know, that that that
Speaker 7: were good enough, instead of just fully understanding like we
Speaker 7: are enough.
Speaker 6: Right, We're trying to prove instead of recognized.
Speaker 7: And I think that's like the power of the pause
Speaker 7: and taking time to be still. So I'm just curious
Speaker 7: for you, like what are your mindfulness practices. Do you
Speaker 7: have rituals, practices, mantras that you do to really center
Speaker 7: yourself and get present.
Speaker 3: Well, I think I love I love the power of
Speaker 3: the pause. That was really really great, And I think
Speaker 3: for me.
Speaker 4: It's a reminder sort of daily.
Speaker 3: Like I said, I have my my affirmations that I
Speaker 3: know I need to speak to myself. I have affirmation
Speaker 3: that I speak over my home, that I speak about
Speaker 3: my marriage, that I speak over my son, because I
Speaker 3: do believe that we also can speak things into existence.
Speaker 3: There is life in what you say, So watch what
Speaker 3: you say.
Speaker 4: So yeah, for me, it's prayer.
Speaker 3: It's not only just telling myself who I know I am,
Speaker 3: because you really you need to know who you are
Speaker 3: before you walk into anybody's room, because they're going to
Speaker 3: tell you who you are if you don't.
Speaker 4: So knowing who.
Speaker 3: I am, trusting who I am, trusting what God has
Speaker 3: given me to do, walking boldly in that, and then
Speaker 3: also I get blessed from telling other people that they're great.
Speaker 3: I think I recognized a long time ago, while this
Speaker 3: industry is very difficult, I am not in competition. I
Speaker 3: think there's room for everybody. Whatever dreams and goals God
Speaker 3: has given you, there is room for everybody to fulfill
Speaker 3: their destiny. And so I've never felt like I'm in
Speaker 3: competition with anybody. So it's very easy for me to
Speaker 3: see someone and say, oh my god, you look beautiful.
Speaker 3: Oh that's stunning. We could be going in for the
Speaker 3: same audition, Oh my god, you look great.
Speaker 4: Gone girl.
Speaker 3: Or just speaking life into other people is a blessing
Speaker 3: to me, and you never know what that can do
Speaker 3: for them. You never know where they're head space is at.
Speaker 3: You don't know where they are mentally, you don't know
Speaker 3: what they've just been through. You know, they barely made
Speaker 3: it through that door. And so knowing that the small
Speaker 3: things you can do a smile, a handshake, a hug,
Speaker 3: you look wonderful or welcome or how are you a
Speaker 3: genuine how are you can change somebody's life. So those
Speaker 3: are also practices that I have put into motion that
Speaker 3: really truly blessed me. You know, it's it's easiest to
Speaker 3: bless yourself when you're blessing others.
Speaker 2: It's better to give than receive. I mean, I remember,
Speaker 2: I remember the first time somebody, uh, I'm a Donnie
Speaker 2: and I have been in a twelve step recovery and
Speaker 2: in meetings, I remember an old timer saying, you know,
Speaker 2: if you want a friend, be a friend, and you know,
Speaker 2: getting yourself out of this place of like me receiving
Speaker 2: before I give first. And it's like, if I'm following,
Speaker 2: if I'm following God, if I'm in relationship with God,
Speaker 2: then my character and how I lived my life should
Speaker 2: be in alignment with Him, in alignment with with what
Speaker 2: how he would act, and and what you said about
Speaker 2: like comparing yourself to other people, It's like that's like
Speaker 2: the number one thief of joy. I mean, if you're
Speaker 2: you log you log onto social media at any point
Speaker 2: in time, your your joy could be stolen from you
Speaker 2: if you allow it to. So it's it's so important,
Speaker 2: especially nowadays too. I think you spoke on it earlier,
Speaker 2: just like protecting like what you're consuming and what you're
Speaker 2: taking in, Like you really have to be locked in
Speaker 2: on that because the world today is going to have
Speaker 2: you spinning.
Speaker 5: Like a top and just like you're love in a
Speaker 5: many different.
Speaker 3: Directions, have you thinking you crazy, you know, And it's
Speaker 3: and it's amazing to me how social media can really
Speaker 3: have somebody in.
Speaker 4: A frenzy, y'all.
Speaker 3: Almost ninety nine point nine percent of this stuff is
Speaker 3: you know, airbrushed, touched up all the like. This is
Speaker 3: not people post the things that make them happy. You
Speaker 3: do not typically post the things that are hurting you,
Speaker 3: that are breaking you down, that you don't see a
Speaker 3: way out of. And when we recognize that, we don't
Speaker 3: let it consume us. You know, social media can be
Speaker 3: used as a tool, but if you are not ready
Speaker 3: to use it like that and understand it and truly
Speaker 3: love yourself, I think.
Speaker 4: It is very difficult. I think it is very very difficult.
Speaker 3: It feels like a thief comeing to take every piece
Speaker 3: of joy that you have. And that's one thing that
Speaker 3: I tell myself too, Donnie, a reminder the world didn't
Speaker 3: give it to me, so the world can't take it away.
Speaker 4: Like this joy that I have, the world did not
Speaker 4: give it to me.
Speaker 7: So that's like that, as you may, the whole idea
Speaker 7: of conditional happiness.
Speaker 6: And I think that's why.
Speaker 7: Most of our world, or much of our world is
Speaker 7: struggling so bad, because of the idea of like, I'll
Speaker 7: be happy when I get this, or when I get
Speaker 7: the likes, or when I get.
Speaker 6: The car or the marriage.
Speaker 7: And it's like, no, you have to figure out that
Speaker 7: happiness happens in the now.
Speaker 6: Happiness is an inside job. And yeah, you know what
Speaker 6: makes me happy.
Speaker 7: And I heard you say like a lot of the
Speaker 7: when you were referencing the social media where a lot
Speaker 7: of people are posting what makes them happy. And it's
Speaker 7: always a good reminder to me because I think my
Speaker 7: life changed forever when I actually shared my shit and
Speaker 7: shared my mess and I found like I feel like
Speaker 7: I found my voice. It humanized me as a teacher.
Speaker 7: It's also how I connected with Darren him hearing his
Speaker 7: short story, and I've heard you say that if you're
Speaker 7: not showing who you are, how are others gonna actually
Speaker 7: see the way? And when you and I heard that,
Speaker 7: I was like, Wow, this is exactly why we are
Speaker 7: sitting here in this moment, the three of us having
Speaker 7: this conversation. And my teacher would always say, how dare
Speaker 7: we not? And I get it, like in Darren and
Speaker 7: NIC's program, it's known to be anonymous, but I think
Speaker 7: I just had to choose impact over anonymity. And again
Speaker 7: those words for my teacher, how dare I not share
Speaker 7: my story when there's opportunities to help so many other people,
Speaker 7: not by how great my life is now, but how
Speaker 7: bad it was. Yeah, and then that willingness to just
Speaker 7: surrender and lay it all down and actually get honest
Speaker 7: and ask for some help.
Speaker 3: Yeah, That's that's what it's about. That's where change happens.
Speaker 3: That's I remember. I went through so many things when
Speaker 3: I got pregnant, and I'm just like, is this normal?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 3: How come nobody nobody told me about this? Why didn't
Speaker 3: someone tell me that this could happen? Or this is
Speaker 3: what you go through? Like a lot of times, the
Speaker 3: stories that I heard women made it sound like pregnancy
Speaker 3: was all roses, and ah, this is delightful, and oh
Speaker 3: my child, Oh they're just amazing. My child started kicking
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh my goodness, this is this
Speaker 3: the earthquake happening. There were just so many things that
Speaker 3: I did not know to expect that are typical, and
Speaker 3: then understanding after I found out I had the fibroids,
Speaker 3: finding out how common it is in women of color,
Speaker 3: and then I start asking around and it's like.
Speaker 4: Oh, oh yeah, I had that.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you know, you got to get checked for
Speaker 3: those because a lot of times doctors won't check you
Speaker 3: for it, and so you have to ask them to check.
Speaker 4: I'm like, wait, what, why didn't I know this? I
Speaker 4: wish I would have known.
Speaker 3: And that's what led me to share my pregnancy journey
Speaker 3: with Essence, because I want somebody to know.
Speaker 4: I know there are women coming behind me that want
Speaker 4: to get pregnant.
Speaker 3: If you're a woman of color, ask your doctor to
Speaker 3: check you for this, because had I been checked, I
Speaker 3: would have had a way.
Speaker 4: Better pregnancy because I would have gotten and removed.
Speaker 3: But you just don't know unless people are talking, unless
Speaker 3: people are sharing what they've been through, and I want
Speaker 3: to to share it so that people understood, No, this
Speaker 3: has not been Roses. This is something you can do
Speaker 3: to advocate for yourself. This is something you need to do,
Speaker 3: and it's okay. Don't feel shamed. Don't feel like because
Speaker 3: a lot of women I talked to felt shame. They
Speaker 3: didn't really want to share because it's not normal. Well, honey,
Speaker 3: it kind of sort of is. But also who cares.
Speaker 3: If you've been through this, you can help somebody else.
Speaker 3: Somebody else doesn't have to go through the same thing
Speaker 3: you went through. That's what I think about. From my son,
Speaker 3: I'm enduring certain things so that he doesn't have to,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. So we have to share.
Speaker 3: We have to be honest because honesty brings about change.
Speaker 2: That's I mean, like you said, we feel you, Donnie,
Speaker 2: and I for sure, because I mean, I'm somebody that's
Speaker 2: I had no plans on being vocal about my journey
Speaker 2: with Droy's alcohol and all things that I've been through,
Speaker 2: but I feel like that's where my purpose has come from,
Speaker 2: and now it's about you know, somebody's life can be different,
Speaker 2: somebody's experience can be different because of my vulnerability because
Speaker 2: of what I'm willing to share. I'm willing to get
Speaker 2: up here and show you my scars. And it's like,
Speaker 2: you know, because they're no longer open wounds, they're they're
Speaker 2: healed now. They're still there, but they're there for a reason.
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: We salute you, We respect you for being vulnerable, showing
Speaker 2: the path so many women, whether it's pregnancy, whether it's
Speaker 2: you know, stepping out into their gifts and their calling
Speaker 2: that they know is true to themselves, dealing with any
Speaker 2: rejection along the way, even dealing with the success and
Speaker 2: how traumatizing success can be at times. Your vulnerability has
Speaker 2: been amazing. I'm walking away from this conversation lit up and.
Speaker 5: Just honor to have shared this time and this platform
Speaker 5: with you.
Speaker 3: So we're grateful, Thank you, Thank you so much, Darren.
Speaker 3: This has really been a pleasure. I appreciate it. I
Speaker 3: don't take it for granted anytime I'm able to talk
Speaker 3: and share anything, because I think that these are the
Speaker 3: moments that God gives us to be a light to someone,
Speaker 3: to share something that could touch and change. And so
Speaker 3: thank you, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Darren and Donnie, thank you so much.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm wondering if you can leave us with you know,
Speaker 7: I love the fact that we're having a lot of
Speaker 7: God talk on here, but I'm curious if somebody listening
Speaker 7: would be like, jeez, that's a lot of talk about God.
Speaker 7: If they're if they're if they're feeling, if they're feeling
Speaker 7: that resistance.
Speaker 6: But what what kind of advice?
Speaker 7: What could you, like, leave us with or leave that
Speaker 7: person that's maybe had of that experience or has some trauma.
Speaker 6: Around it, or isn't as open minded.
Speaker 7: What would you say to that person that just is
Speaker 7: struggling to find faith in their life.
Speaker 3: Life is hard, Life is hard, hard, And I understand
Speaker 3: the moments where you're not sure if there is a God,
Speaker 3: if there is a higher power, because why would I
Speaker 3: ever find myself in such a circumstance, Or if there
Speaker 3: is simply hurt from having gone to a church or
Speaker 3: a place of faith in worship and been rejected or
Speaker 3: told you're not good enough, or told uh, that's not
Speaker 3: what someone godly looks like or acts like or dresses like.
Speaker 4: I would say, keep going. I would say.
Speaker 3: Trust that you're here for a reason, and that there
Speaker 3: is a greater purpose beyond you, and you will find it.
Speaker 3: You don't have to have found it because I found
Speaker 3: it right now, or because Darren found it, or because
Speaker 3: Donnie found it. You will find it when you're supposed
Speaker 3: to find it. But trust that you are on your
Speaker 3: right path even though it's difficult, and that you are loved.
Speaker 3: I think when you lean into knowing you are loved,
Speaker 3: you find God. So I would just tell them you
Speaker 3: are loved. Life is going to life, and there can
Speaker 3: be people out there acting like, oh no, I'm.
Speaker 4: Good, I'm blessed. God is good. Yes, God is good, Yes,
Speaker 4: I am blessed.
Speaker 3: Also, life has been lifing and it has been very difficult,
Speaker 3: and I have found myself on my knees. I have
Speaker 3: found myself crying. I have found myself feeling like I
Speaker 3: am alone. I just have to get to the other
Speaker 3: side and know that I'm not and trust that I
Speaker 3: am fully loved even in the midst of it all.
Speaker 3: So I would just say, just take it step by step,
Speaker 3: moment by moment, choosing to know that you are loved,
Speaker 3: and when you feel that, you'll find God.
Speaker 5: None else needs to be said out of that. Thank you.
Speaker 6: I could listen to your voice all day long.
Speaker 7: It's just soothing, it's fluid, your I just keep thinking
Speaker 7: about the grace and fluidity of your words, and.
Speaker 6: I just feeling coming coming from your heart. But we
Speaker 6: know it's coming from something greater than that.
Speaker 7: So thank you for channeling God spirit and sharing the
Speaker 7: love with us and our listeners today.
Speaker 6: We appreciate you.
Speaker 4: I appreciate you. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 6: All right, everybody peace, We're.
Speaker 5: Comeback.
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