WEBVTT - Blackouts Loom 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:07.160 Welcome to Bloomberg Opinion. I'm Vonnie Quinn this week, what's 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:10.720 really interesting is this constant questioning, this idea that there 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:13.640 is always a consor narrative, so we have to constantly 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:16.880 bus everything to the point that everything is unknowable. Tara 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:20.759 for Era Marquez on Putin's propaganda war. Later, we'll speak 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:23.680 with Julie Ran on lessons China could learn from a neighbor. 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:26.319 First to the market though. Lots of FED speakers this 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.360 week before the FED hits it's blackout period, all vowing 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:32.360 the FED will conquer inflation. Here is Jerry J. Powell 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:36.080 at the Cato Institute Thursday. The longer inflation remains well 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:38.760 above target, the greater the concern that the public will 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:43.520 start to naturally incorporate higher inflation into its economic decision making, 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:46.680 and our job is to make sure that doesn't happen. 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:50.400 We're with Bloomberg Opinions. Connor Sen Connor. Some FED speaker 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:52.720 is going so far is to give specific reasons why 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:55.800 we'll continue to see inflation moderate Lele Brainer, for example, 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:59.520 talking about lower retail margins and cooling housing. How much 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:02.640 is the inflation threat receding. I think it's significant we're 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:04.920 going to see in the August inflation the PO report 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:07.560 next week. But we've seen gas prices come off a lot. Obviously, 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:10.120 there's signs of supply chains using all of the place. 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:12.880 Auto production is picking up, which would help with auto pricing. 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:15.280 That there seems to be some data suggesting that auto 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:16.960 prices are coming down now as well. And so then 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:18.840 it really becomes a question of your view of how 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:22.160 inflation will stick for core services and labor. But this 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:23.840 is subjective view. But I just think that that's going 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:26.160 to come down somewhat as well as the economy kind 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:28.680 of normalizes from its pandemic state. Right. But we did 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:31.400 see wage growth often just a little bit, right, I mean, 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:35.240 it's not like the labor market is intensely strong, right, 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:37.679 And at the sector level, we're seeing signs that in 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:40.399 the industries where labor growth was the most acute last year, 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:43.440 things like leisure and hospitality and transportation and warehousing, things 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:46.319 like e commerce and Amazon, that in those industries that's 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:48.520 coming off more than it is for the labor market 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:50.440 of the whole, suggesting to me that that's going to 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:52.360 sort of spread throughout the rest of the labor market. 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:54.800 Has hiring catches up to demand. Yeah, so there are 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:57.240 question marks surrounding the labor market. In one sense, it's 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:59.520 help the economy. In another sense, a less strong labor 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:02.080 market is what we're looking for. So traders are still 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:04.360 looking for a seventy five basis point hike in September. 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:07.680 But is a less aggressive hike warranted given all the 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:09.600 bite spots that you know, you and I have been 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:11.919 pointing out and the moderating inflation in the data. It's 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.239 a complicated question because I think that the Fed's main 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:16.320 goal right now, and we sort of stave us with 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:18.840 sed share pal speech at Jackson Hole, is that they 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:21.440 don't want to market the price a pivot in monetary 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.040 policy and a surge back in stock markets and the 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:26.640 housing market and so on. They think that keeping markets 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:28.359 and the housing market kind of where they are, I 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:30.440 would say at least a few more months is critical 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:32.359 for them as they assess how much progress we've made 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:34.560 on inflation. And they can't really tell us that they're 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:36.720 anticipating inflation to come down in the near term, because 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:39.000 again then we would price that they have a tricky 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:42.080 path to walk right now as they bounce their goals. Yeah, 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.080 and obviously we're seeing improvement in curves and so on 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:47.840 as well, the copper curve for one example, but we 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:50.760 do still have the two sns inverted, not the price thirties. 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.720 Is the yield curve signaling procession right now? I would 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:56.360 say it's signaling that near term inflation is going to 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:59.600 be higher than longer term inflation. And whether you think 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.480 that means recession or that they'll sort of moderate their 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:05.120 stands down the road as there's signs that inflation has moderated. 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:08.200 That gets to a subjective question. I'm so optimistic, but 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:10.079 if you're looking for a recession, I'd say the Yelk 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:12.320 curve maybe there's the most smoking gun you can see 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:15.679 in markets right now. I saw I mentioned today a 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:19.040 City note actually the possibility of what they're calling transitory 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:22.720 stag inflation. So City talking about the potential to see 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.360 elevated inflation and slower growth for just a couple of quarters, 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:27.799 but that the result would be an enquoting now intensified 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:31.639 stress and financial markets and increased pressures on central banks. 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:35.280 So obviously City does have some concerns. Still, would that 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:38.040 be a scenario that you think is a possibility that's 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:39.920 arguabably got in the first half of the year where 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:43.360 real GDP growth was negative and inflation accelerated, and so 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:45.520 you know whether that continues or not. I actually think 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:47.520 we've been making progress there over the past few months 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:49.960 because we're seeing again that headline inflation is coming down, 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:53.120 the labor market remains strong, so for workers, real incomes 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:54.880 or seemed to be going again, which was not the 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:56.280 case in the first half of the year. And there's 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:58.720 also hopes that say, in the labor market, whereas workers 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:00.520 get up to speed, we've all the new higher in 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:02.760 the workplace, that they'll become more productive and that will 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:05.000 help with this sort of stagg inflationary head when you've 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:08.440 been dealing with as well. So I guess you're very 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:10.600 optimistic in some ways. But how much can we look 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:13.240 at the US market as a solo concern. Are you 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:15.520 concerned at all about China and Europe slowing as it 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:17.920 relates to feedback loops for example? Well, I certainly a 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.480 much more pessimistic on the foreign situations before China can't 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:24.400 seem to exit this code zerior situation. The ear problem 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:26.760 is pretty well understood and discussed in terms of they're 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:31.040 dealing with inflation, energy criss fallowing currencies, and it's very 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:33.160 hard to be optimistic about Europe over the next six months. 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:34.839 So I think the question is what are the feedback 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:37.120 loops into the US and for financial markets, I think 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:39.600 they're pretty high where we're seeing it in arguably that 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:42.760 as interest rates rise in Europe as a deild conflation, 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:45.680 that's pushing our yield higher. But the real economy pass 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:47.719 through is much more limited my opinion, and we're not 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:50.560 really seeing that yet data. Yeah, and so you might 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.320 skirt any problems, is what you're saying. I think right 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:55.360 now the adjustment is really happening more for Wall Street 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:57.080 than Main Street, and that's something that we're not used 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:58.880 to because for so long that was not the case. 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:00.280 And we see this in the jobs of or we 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:02.360 had another thre hid thousand jobs, and we see all 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:05.000 these problems in areas of concerning financial markets. We just 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:07.320 haven't seen the same thing happen in the real economy. 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:09.880 So Connor, let me ask you, then, plenty of calls 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.280 for the SMB to drop as much as scent I've 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:14.600 seen from here, the founder of Interactive Brokers among them, 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.400 but also Goldman Sacks Michael Bury Bank America clients and 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:19.599 net sellaries at the moment, are you looking for the 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.560 SMB to drop? Not like that right now. My view 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:24.680 is that earnings estimates have been pretty stable for the 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:26.440 past two months. We saw a little bit of weakness 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:29.160 in July, which is mostly due to the currency impact 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:31.520 on big tech companies. You know, Microsoft's earning less money 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:33.719 from Europe due to the rise in the dollar previously. 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:36.320 But outside of that, earning ustiments are pretty stable and 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:39.479 they're not really following. And so if earnings don't fall 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:41.640 at least meaningfully, then to me, you're not going to 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:43.280 see that kind of weakness in the stock market. You 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:45.440 might see some weakness as we've seen with rising interest 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.200 rates making equities relatively less attractive, but that's not attend 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:50.400 to fifteen percent sell off. That's just sort of stops 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:53.280 moving in line with the bond market. Yeah, So, where 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:55.240 is the potential for holes in your argument? Because when 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.880 you lay it out, it seems plausible, very likely. Even 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:00.400 there's certainly a lot of scenarios where this to go wrong. First, 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:02.960 energy prices could flare back up and bring back the 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:04.880 concerns of inflation that we had in May and June, 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:07.960 we might we might see that productivity growth of labor 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:10.440 market could continue to remain weak, which might mean more 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.280 labor markets flowing that I'm anticipating the set could just 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:16.000 mis read the economy and sort of overtighten into a 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:18.600 slowdown and sort of cause reception before they have time 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:20.560 to adjust. I think the path through is pretty limited. 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:22.720 But if Europe and trying to get worse, then there 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.119 could be some paths through there, so you could point 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.800 to things where this could happen. But it's just right now, 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:29.320 it's hard to see that with the state of the 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:31.600 labor market, the state of Happle balance sheets, sort of 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.040 where corporate America is my view of where inflation is 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:35.719 going over the next two or three quarters. To me, 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:38.040 we're just gonna do okay and model through even though 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:39.960 we're being a lot in certainty day to day, week 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:43.039 a week. Conners and there don't forget listeners. Get in 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:45.839 touch via Twitter at Vanna Quinn or email v Quinn 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:50.440 at Bloomberg dot net. Opinions and comments always welcome. Russia's 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:54.279 RT Broadcast Operation bills itself as an English language news 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:56.800 channel which brings the Russian of view on Global News. 0:06:57.160 --> 0:06:59.560 It's been banned in the United States and Europe, but 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:03.200 a boomer opinions. Clara Ferreira Marquez points out it's winning 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:05.960 friends in the developing world and as functioning as an 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:10.680 important instrument in Vladimir Putin's propaganda campaign. Tara Ferra Marquez 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:14.680 joins us, Now, so, Clara, what is RT? Who founded it? 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:18.520 Who runs it? So? RT is Russia's twenty four our 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:22.120 primarily the English but not only in English news network. 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:25.080 It was founders in two thousand five, really the creature 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:28.080 of two men, Mikail lives In, who was medium minister 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:31.600 but at that time already presidential advisor in Alex Sigma, 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:34.240 the former diplomat who'd run the press service, and they 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:39.040 really understood that Russia needed a better instrument to communicate it, 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:42.120 choosing to try and bring people around to the country's views. 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:44.960 They felt really that the international traditional media was not 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:47.040 doing a good enough job. And also the context is 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.200 at the time for two thousand five is also when 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:52.360 a lot of other non English sort of news channels 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:55.000 were coming out. So this is our Jazeera in English 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:58.400 France twenty four, So it wasn't alone at that point 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:00.560 in time. And then it really has als. And that's 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:02.800 what interested us when we were looking into it, is 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:05.600 how it has changed over time, right, because I remember 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:08.200 that year. I remember when it started. I had colleagues interested, 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.440 just as they were interested in Al Jazeera. There was 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:12.720 maybe a little bit of skepticism that there would be 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.760 some pressure from the top two tow aligne or what 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.440 have you, But in the main it seems like people 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:22.920 were actually okay with working in many of these broadcast outlets. 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:26.320 Did something change in the mission of RT over time? 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:28.560 What has it become? So? I mean, I think to 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:31.520 be clear, from the beginning, it was an instrument funded 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:35.120 by the Russian government and intended for a particular purpose. 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.000 It just was perhaps doing it in a slightly different 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:40.520 way to At the beginning it was more about presenting 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.200 news from Russia and the foremost of the Union that 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:45.880 you know, wasn't really covered elsewhere. It was a little 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:49.320 bit more straightforward. As it went on, things changed and 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:51.600 the turning point there were few I mean, the two 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:54.320 thousand and eight Georgian War was really a very significant one. 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:56.959 At that point, the realization in becomment that perhaps this 0:08:57.200 --> 0:08:59.680 wasn't working as a way of getting their point across 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.440 because and the Georgian War happened, if you remember, that 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:04.960 was really about Russia having said they did not want 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:08.240 Georgia and later and later going ahead allowing Georgia to 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:11.760 begin talk, and then it accelerated from then on. I 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:13.959 mean really, then you had the n team if you 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:16.800 remember in twenty fourteen, that's a really good example of 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:19.960 how the Channel works in terms of counter narratives and 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:23.040 conspiracy theories. And then twenty seventeen and think of the 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:26.360 scriptile poisoning in the UK and then obviously now that 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:29.840 with the war in Ukraine. But what really then changed 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.600 is the way that it moved from being primarily worried 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:36.199 about Western markets who are much broader, do that focuses 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:39.400 on the emerging world. Well, so it's not officially an 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:41.360 arm of the government or anything like that. Is there 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:44.280 any kind of an effort to suggest that it's still 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:47.920 a free and fair organization or does it always just 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:50.920 spit out what the government press office will tell it? 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:53.760 So no, I mean our tea will say, and they 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:58.040 told us they themselves operationally and editorially independent. They are 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:00.920 however funded by the Russian g LINT. In their perspect 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:04.960 the constellation of media companies that are Strip related, not 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.240 all of them. Ownership structure is a little messy, but 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:12.280 it all comes under sort of Russian government funded organizations 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:16.080 that are certainly intended to get the Russian view across 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:18.679 and they are also I think very interesting characters that 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:22.600 pressly runs it women called who took over our tea 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:25.560 very early. She's only twenty five when she took it on, 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:28.640 and has with the war in Ukraine, become one of 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:33.240 the strongest, most hawkish voices on Russian domestic television. So 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.719 Art also has the sort of inn words function. It's 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.280 so fascinating because obviously you always want a free and 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:41.640 fair press. It is, after all, the fourth estate. But 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:44.000 even in the freest of countries and societies, you have 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:47.000 organizations with a bias or that are restricted in some 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.920 way by their ownership or run by very hands on owners. 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:54.440 Maybe elucidate for us the difference between something like a 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:58.320 Fox News or an MSNBC or Rupert Murdock's Empire in 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:01.240 Britain and Art. I mean, let's be clear that just 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:04.080 by the virtue of what we choose to focus our energy, 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:07.439 it's done in a way is editorializing, is making decisions. 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.240 But the fact is that most mainstream media make a 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.679 very significant effort to balance about reporting, unless it's not 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:16.240 done at I T and in fact it's not done 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.120 at Fox News either or indeed at the name group 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.520 at Murdoch outlets in the UK. But I think what's 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.760 really interesting is this what's about sism, which is this 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:28.360 constant questioning, this idea that there is always a counter narrative, 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.120 that we have to constantly bouse everything to the point 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:34.920 that everything is unknowable. And that's a really powerful propaganda 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:37.000 tool because if you think back to the Soviet propaganda 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:39.520 or in the US propaganda during the Cold War, it 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:42.000 was really about getting everyone to believe a particular narratives 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:43.920 in the Soviet case, to try and get everyone to 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.880 believe one thing. What's really powerful about tox news, about 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:50.599 talk TV, about our t in particular, really who pioneered this? 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:52.840 If you don't have to believe what we think, you 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.840 just have to believe in nothing. So if you'd undertake 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.280 an analysis of the rhetoric and the rhetorical devices, you 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:02.320 would actually see similar types of devices being used. So 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:07.560 beyond that rhetorical device, are there more that you've noticed Kara. Yeah, 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:09.679 there's a few. There's one that's very effective. It's the 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:13.559 mechanisms us been advertising to it. It's conspiratorial idea. It's 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:16.400 this idea that I as the host, I as Pucker Casts, 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.520 and I as one of the hosts on ARTI I 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:20.559 speak to you directly and they say, you know, you're 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:24.240 clever enough, you don't believe the official narratives. This conspiratorial 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:28.400 connection works very well. Also the use of social media 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:31.240 to both reinforce their narratives them to spreads them. That 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.839 is done very very well. The use of changing audiences. 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.120 So if you look at trust and mainstain media, the 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.120 look at the way people can staine you, especially in 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:43.040 the emerging world, much more on social media, which means 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.280 that it's much easier to consume partisan news because if 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:49.120 you're consuming news on social media's probably coming from people 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.160 within your circle of people. People need the same as you. 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:53.599 So it's not the same way as what it was 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:55.920 like in the seventies of races, for everyone watches the 0:12:55.960 --> 0:13:00.000 same news religions, so it's encourages parts of the politics 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.960 well now. So these types of organizations have always existed, 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.080 but the viewer is supposed to use discretion in their 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:09.199 viewing habits. Right. It's not that these organizations shouldn't be 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:12.400 allowed to exist, although I'm sure some people would suggest 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:14.559 that they shouldn't be allowed to exist. How are the 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:17.760 viewers drawn in? And do we have viewership numbers for 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:21.000 something like arety So No, not really, I mean we 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.160 don't have very reliable ones. We have them necessarily patch rickly. 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:27.800 It depends country by country. Our T tends to focus 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:30.480 on people who are able to view the channel, which 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:32.600 is obviously quite different from people who view the channel. 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:35.160 I think the really important thing to understand about urt 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:37.880 about Fox News better these channels, that people tend to 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.280 view what they believe rather than believe what they see. 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:42.840 You can see the difference. It's not that people watch 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.160 our T and are instantly converted. It's the same way 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.000 that you and I can watch Fox News and not 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:51.640 automatically become you know, ultra Trump supporters. So that is true, 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.760 But then when you're dealing with the changing news environment 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:58.000 which people are consuming much more partisan news, it becomes 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:00.760 quite a different proposition. And I think it's important to 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:03.760 understmber that, Yes, the viewership is definitely small in Europe, 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:07.319 but subtractors as an instrument. Once it gets into societies 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:11.400 that are more skeptical a priori of the traditional media 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:15.160 of the US of Western intentions, you're feeding an audience 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:17.679 that is easier to bring along and also use of 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:21.840 societies where media is typically still funded. It's not doing 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:23.960 its own reporting. So, for example, when I look at 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.120 sprytnic and artie content that is reproduced in Southeast Asia, 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:30.840 it sucking reproduced without any such criticism because these organizations 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:33.440 do not have their people on the grounds in Ukraine, Sarah, 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:35.920 It's difficult to view are t through a non Western 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:38.800 lens because obviously we have our biases and our perceptions 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:41.440 and so on. But how is the art content perceived 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:43.760 in other parts of the world. Do people accept it? 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:46.960 Um Certainly people are a lot more sympathetic to something 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:50.560 like actually because it isn't seen as some crazy Russian outlets. 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.280 It's seen as the way of obtaining me but is 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:56.480 resably okay. And that is true in Africa, it is 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:58.840 true in mass America, it's true in the Middle East. 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:01.080 It's true here in the Asia atly in Southeast Asia, 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.480 particularly for example, in Southeast Asia, where Russia is perceived 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.800 as an Islamic friendly country as opposed to the worst 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:10.400 these narratives. They carry a lot of weight. And the 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:14.600 way that art has worked in lastin America's a good example. 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:18.720 They really have played to the strength speaking to particular audiences, 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.480 looking at particular countries where they are more accepted, for 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:26.400 example Argentina, Mexican Vinetuela. It's been very, very effective. You 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:30.320 have some fantastic examples of the types of slogans that 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:33.320 are associated with art in your story. One is question more. 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:37.360 You also mentioned that one of Artie's favorite talking points 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:39.880 is there are no good guys and no bad guys, 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:42.240 which is perially similar to something we heard here in 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:45.160 the United States back a few years which I won't repeat. 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:49.520 How did and how does RT deal with international news? 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.080 So for example the Giljan protests in France or the 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.320 Black Lives Matter demonstrations here, it tends to view and 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:57.040 this is true by the way of I see in 0:15:57.200 --> 0:15:59.840 different languages, it tends to be The contents is different, 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.240 it is produced differently, it has a certainly different focus, 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:05.320 but the way they deal with it is recently similar. 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:07.760 So there are sort of three types of dues on art. 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.760 One is the sensational and this is particularly true on 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:13.520 social media. So these a lot of sensational content. It 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.560 could be violent in the US, it could be a volcanoes, 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:19.880 it could be the viral type content. That's one. The 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:24.560 second is um us content and content from Western countries 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.960 that shows dysfunctions and shows that these systems don't work, 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:31.680 and shows that multicultural systems have problems and serious ones 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:35.080 at that the Black Lives Matter occupy a Wall Street 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:40.040 June in France. These were absolutely brilliant for them. In fact, 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:41.920 it is such good work that they were nominated for 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:45.640 an Emmy. So um these are these are very important. Yes, 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.600 these the narratives that they fit with their view. I mean, 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.760 one really good example was the January stick, where are 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:54.280 t actually doesn't have to do anything. They just played 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:56.480 the images and it really just said this does it 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:58.560 look at the chaos that is in the Western world, 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:02.000 the last of conservative value use. It's violent, but they 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:03.920 just needed to show the image and they do that 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.000 quite a lot. And I think the third bucket with 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.720 international needs viewed through their lens and Russian needs, but 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.439 that really tends to be in the minority. You have 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.480 to wonder how much staffers know, or how staffers feel 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:17.320 about working at places like that. Are they completely on 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.120 board of everything? Do they have to sign nondsculture agreements? 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.479 For example, they do have to sign nonsculture agreements. There 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:25.639 is a different setting between the people who worked for 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:28.239 ACTI early on and then as it continued and they 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.639 became more apparent as the channel itself changed. But I 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:34.719 think it's important to understand the people that are see services, 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:38.439 and they generally hired young people, people who are desperate 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:40.960 to make it in the media TV. Is there absolutely 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.000 cut urate world. It's not hard to understand why very 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.760 generous offers that actually made particularly early years, was very appealing. 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:49.720 I mean a lot of people also less to be 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:54.560 clear in February, including some of their strongest forces. But 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.879 so yeah, people make complicated compromises. I think there's a 0:17:57.920 --> 0:17:59.680 lot of people probably no, no, no, where we're in 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:01.960 the you know we work, and that people were able, 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.040 especially we're still employed, would say no, we're still able 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:07.760 to do the same reporting that anyone else does, which 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:10.560 find a little bit difficult to believe, just in terms 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:14.080 of editorial priorities. You make the point in the story 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.879 that Vladimir Puddin is going to use r T in 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.000 order to get through the sanctions and the impact of 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:22.600 the sanctions on the Russian economy. Explain what you mean 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.480 by that theory. I think it's says a wider strategy 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:27.640 as the Russian government has. But you know, as it 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:30.440 is increasingly isolated from the West, it needs to find 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:35.320 alternative markets. It needs different alternative political partners, people that 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:37.480 you can do business with, also people who can stand 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:40.600 by it in security Council votes, the United Relations and 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:43.360 at the G twinity. And so that's where the emerging 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:47.000 world is so important. And in particular non aligned nations. 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.320 You have those countries like Eritrea or Nuganda that you 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:53.199 know we'll fall behind Russia. But more important for Russia 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:58.640 are those who purport not to take aside, so China, Brazil, Indonesia, India, 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.640 these are really important countries for Russia. In the bulk 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:05.600 of that in America, bulk of Africa that Russian needs 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:07.040 to keep on side. And if you look at the 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.280 countries you have in post functions, I mean the large 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.440