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Speaker 1: President Trump's inauguration drew massive crowds of protesters. Demonstrations in

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Speaker 1: downtown d C turned to violence, and police use pepper

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Speaker 1: spray and flash bang grenades. The American Civil Liberties Union

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Speaker 1: is suing the DC police, accusing them of arresting innocent protesters,

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Speaker 1: using pepper spray and explosive devices without justification, mistreating those arrested,

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Speaker 1: and holding some protesters for as long as sixty hours

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Speaker 1: without food, water, or bathroom facilities, among other claims. Joining

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Speaker 1: me to discuss this suit and the legal saga surrounding

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Speaker 1: the inauguration day protests is former federal prosecutor George Newhouse,

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Speaker 1: a partner at Denton's George. The lawsuit list sixteen different

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Speaker 1: claims against Metropolitan Police, including assultant battery, false arrest, and

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Speaker 1: excessive use of force. Will you describe some of the

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Speaker 1: claims absolutely? June again, as you correctly described, the arrests

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Speaker 1: of over two hundred people arose from a violent demonstration

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Speaker 1: that occurred on January about the same time that the

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Speaker 1: inauguration was going on. The DC police had obviously to

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Speaker 1: respond to violence, uh and what was described a tongue

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Speaker 1: in cheek, and the complaint as some vandalism. In fact,

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Speaker 1: it was a violent destruction of property created by a

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Speaker 1: very large crowd of people, some of whom are self

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Speaker 1: described anarchists. So um people were arrested that one or

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Speaker 1: more interesting techniques is apparently they herded a small group

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Speaker 1: but several hundred people into an area that the complaint

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Speaker 1: describes as a cattle. Basically, they were rounded up like

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Speaker 1: cattle and held in a closed area for a substantial

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Speaker 1: duration of time. And the complaint basically alleges a civil

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Speaker 1: rights violations, which is a federal staff attute that allows

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Speaker 1: citizens to sue public officials when they allegedly violate your

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Speaker 1: constitutional rights. The rights in this case, according to the complaint,

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Speaker 1: was the First Amendment right to a peaceably assemble. So

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Speaker 1: you have a classic clash. The police have a duty

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Speaker 1: and a responsibility to protect the public and private property,

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Speaker 1: and these individuals, some of whom are in fact have

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Speaker 1: been charged with crimes, claimed that they were being punished

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Speaker 1: by the police for exercising their First Amendment rights. So,

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned, more than two hundred people have been

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Speaker 1: indicted by a grand jury for rioting and conspiracy to

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Speaker 1: damage property, including a few of the plaintiffs. In this case,

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Speaker 1: police say they used necessary force against the rioters who

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Speaker 1: damaged property and injured police officers. So there was also

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Speaker 1: there's a group of rioters who are demonstrating violent and

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Speaker 1: some that are demonstrating peacefully. Is the police use of

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Speaker 1: necessary force a complete defense? Here? Partial defense? Really, Junior,

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Speaker 1: put your finger on it. That's going to be the

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Speaker 1: factual question I think the court will have to to

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Speaker 1: sort out, which is was the use of force by

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Speaker 1: the police and they clearly anticipated that they were going

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Speaker 1: to be arrests because this area, the kettle, the so

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Speaker 1: called kettle that they herded the people into, how it

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Speaker 1: was obviously predesigned. It is interesting if you read the

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Speaker 1: complaint because they describe the A c. L U, which

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Speaker 1: is handling the case on behalf of these alleged protesters.

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Speaker 1: Um they herded them into this area and then held

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Speaker 1: them for up to seven hours in circumstances that were,

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Speaker 1: shall we say, less than pleasant. But again, this is

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Speaker 1: a situation that the police didn't design. They didn't want

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Speaker 1: anyone to commit crimes, and they have a duty to

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Speaker 1: protect the public. So it's really going to be one

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Speaker 1: of these questions about were their tactics um appropriate. One

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Speaker 1: thing is interesting is in the complaint is what you

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Speaker 1: don't hear about. You don't hear about police firing their weapons.

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Speaker 1: You don't hear about the use of of night sticks. Uh.

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Speaker 1: In fact, apparently, according to the the complaint, no one was

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Speaker 1: actually injured, which is to say, shot or otherwise injured,

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Speaker 1: other than ironically a police officer who was hitting the

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Speaker 1: head by concrete. So it's a again, a very interesting

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Speaker 1: and I think factual issue that the court will have

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Speaker 1: to sort out. George. The DC Police Complaints Boards sent

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Speaker 1: monitors to watch how the officers handled the demonstration, and

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Speaker 1: they issued a report in last February that raised concerns,

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Speaker 1: for example, that police used pepper spray and sting grenades

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Speaker 1: to disperse the crowds instead of in response to unlawful

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Speaker 1: actions and the arrest procedures. Will that be part of

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Speaker 1: the proof at trial that report absolutely, well, the report

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Speaker 1: will not, but the but the perceptions of the observers.

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Speaker 1: And one of the interesting issues raised in the complaint

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Speaker 1: is that is this allegation that pepper spray was not

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Speaker 1: used to control the crowd or to stop someone from

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Speaker 1: committing a crime, but it really to punish the protesters

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Speaker 1: to cause them not harm but discomfort. The pepper spray

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Speaker 1: doesn't actually hurt you. It doesn't, you're not People that

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Speaker 1: are sprayed don't sustain long term injuries. It is obviously

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Speaker 1: very unpleasant, but the use. And there's one other I

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Speaker 1: think issue that is of interest in the complaint that

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Speaker 1: I think the courts need to weigh upon, and that

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Speaker 1: is the allegation app there again hundreds of people arrested.

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Speaker 1: They were held for a substantial period of time, but

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Speaker 1: of course that's a an exigency not created by the

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Speaker 1: police because they have to sort through a lot of

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Speaker 1: different people. But then they were all taken to an

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Speaker 1: area controlled by the police where every single person was

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Speaker 1: apparently subjected to a strip search that included, um to

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Speaker 1: put it indelicately, you know, entering private parts of their bodies,

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Speaker 1: which is extremely unpleasant. That's something I think the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court may eventually revisit again because in two thousand twelve

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Speaker 1: there was a Supreme Court decision that upheld the the right,

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Speaker 1: if you will, of jailers to conduct strip searches. But

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Speaker 1: these are visual strip searches, the the kind of anal

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Speaker 1: probing that went on, according to the complaint in this case,

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Speaker 1: is extremely humiliating, and if the police are doing that

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Speaker 1: in order to punish the people that there are arresting,

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Speaker 1: that would be a constitutional violation in my opinion. George

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Speaker 1: the a cl U says, the concern here is a

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Speaker 1: chilling of First Amendment rights that people won't want to

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Speaker 1: come out to protest next time, even peacefully, when constitutional

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Speaker 1: are at stake. Where is the line? Is there a

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Speaker 1: line drawn? Well, it's it's a really good question, and

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Speaker 1: I don't know where and who draws that line, but

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Speaker 1: I will say that a day later here in Los Angeles,

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Speaker 1: we had more than a million people came out to

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles for a large women's counter demonstration to the

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Speaker 1: administration UM and obviously the l e. P D was there,

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Speaker 1: the Metro division, but we didn't have the violence, we

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Speaker 1: didn't have criminal activity. It was a remarkably peaceful protest.

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Speaker 1: And none of those people are saying that their First

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Speaker 1: Amendment right to protests were chilled. That the chilling effect

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Speaker 1: occurs when people are caught up in a crowd of

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Speaker 1: criminals and vandals UM and of course, in this case,

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Speaker 1: self described anarchists whose intent appears to be to cause

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Speaker 1: damage and decline to create criminal activity. So as to

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Speaker 1: those people if they if they claim that their first

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Speaker 1: memor rights are chilled, I'm coming out in favor of

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Speaker 1: law enforcement on that one. Thank you, George. That's when

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Speaker 1: we're federal prosecutor. George Newhouse, a partner at Denton's