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Speaker 1: That's just how it works. That's why I never get

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Speaker 1: into always Dancy Swanson overpaid. That's not relevant. Every free

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Speaker 1: agent is essentially overpaid.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Northside Territory, the Chicago Cubs podcast on the

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Speaker 2: Foul Territory Network. I am Patrick Mooney, the Athletic, my

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Speaker 2: co host and colleague on the Cubs beat. Sahadev Sharma

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Speaker 2: is on vacation, so we have a very special guest

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Speaker 2: in Jesse Rodgers of ESPN. Jesse works non stop. He

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Speaker 2: breaks national news, he writes for ESPN dot com. He's

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Speaker 2: on TV as well as the ESPN one thousand affiliate

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Speaker 2: here in Chicago. We sit next to each other in

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Speaker 2: the Wrigley Field press box. It's a lot of laughs,

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Speaker 2: but I'm always impressed by the nuggets and insights that

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Speaker 2: Jesse gets. As someone who is always talking to scouts, agents, executives,

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Speaker 2: coaches and opposing managers. He never has a bad I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna have to disagree with Craig Counsel on that one.

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Speaker 2: So our understanding is that the Cubs are not going

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Speaker 2: to be buyers at the trade deadline. Ken Rosenthal, Will

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Speaker 2: Salmon and I reported that as part of our trade

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Speaker 2: deadline watch on the Athletic So I wanted to hear

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Speaker 2: from Jesse on what a selloff could look like, what

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Speaker 2: the front office and ownership must be thinking at this moment,

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Speaker 2: and if there's something off in this clubhouse mix, and

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Speaker 2: what exactly is Craig Council doing this year.

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Speaker 3: Jesse, thanks for joining me here today.

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Speaker 4: I mean you are a national newsbreaker, a local authority,

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Speaker 4: a multimedia talent, but basically you're here because this was

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Speaker 4: pitched as a roast of Sahadev Sharma.

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Speaker 3: So let's start there.

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Speaker 4: This is your platform to tell the world about our

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Speaker 4: boys spin rate.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean it has to start with that

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Speaker 1: nickname is the man that dives into baseball savant and

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Speaker 1: true media like no one else. So you know, if

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Speaker 1: you need a technical question asked of the manager about

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Speaker 1: spin raid or velocity, it's it's Sahata's job that we've

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Speaker 1: we've dubbed him or bunts for that matter. He liked

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Speaker 1: to ask Ross about fighting a lot we spin Right's

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Speaker 1: our guy.

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Speaker 4: I love him well, he's taken a much needed, well

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Speaker 4: deserved vacation, So I appreciate you hopping in here, and

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Speaker 4: I always like to get your take because you do

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Speaker 4: a great job of going to the other clubhouse talking

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Speaker 4: to different agents, players on our teams, coaches, we're approaching

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Speaker 4: the trade deadline once again. What's kind of your just

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Speaker 4: overall view of the marketplace and what maybe a selloff

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Speaker 4: you know, could look like at Wrigley Field this summer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it certainly has become a seller's market in July

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Speaker 1: with this third wild card added, it might make for

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Speaker 1: less trades in some sense because there's so many teams

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Speaker 1: in it. But obviously if you are a seller, you

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Speaker 1: can do well. And if you talk about the White Sox,

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Speaker 1: for example, they could do really well in part because

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Speaker 1: of some of the pieces they have. But the other thing,

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Speaker 1: and this could apply to the Cubs as well, is

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Speaker 1: the motivated teams like you have the Dodgers, you have

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Speaker 1: the Yankees, even the Phillies, who look invincible, are probably

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Speaker 1: going to add. So these are teams that can take

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Speaker 1: on payroll. In some cases have good farm systems. Certainly

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Speaker 1: in the Dodgers' case they do. So I think that

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Speaker 1: my saying is always, if you're going to have a

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Speaker 1: bad year, you have to salvage it somehow. In July,

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Speaker 1: in this case, July thirtieth is a time every year,

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Speaker 1: this case, July thirtieth, this year is a time to

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Speaker 1: salvage it. And for this Cub's wholly underachieving season, maybe

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Speaker 1: they can trade David Robertson for a Ben Brown again.

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Speaker 1: You know that. Yeah, you know you have to get

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Speaker 1: something out of it if you don't think you can

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Speaker 1: win the World Series, and certainly or even get in.

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Speaker 1: Fangrafts and Baseball Reference don't give them much of a percentage.

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Speaker 1: You know, Vegas doesn't either, So yeah, I think that

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Speaker 1: you have to turn your eye that way and know

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Speaker 1: that it's it is a seller's market and get a

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Speaker 1: good prospect or two.

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Speaker 4: What was Jed's line in twenty twenty one when we

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Speaker 4: were in DC on the Zoom, the like, don't let

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Speaker 4: a crisis go to waste.

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Speaker 3: Or something like that. And I don't know how many

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Speaker 3: great pieces they have to sell.

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Speaker 4: I mean, Tye Own's the one name that's been kind

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Speaker 4: of popping up here and there.

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Speaker 3: I mean, who do you think is kind of.

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Speaker 4: Circling circling the Cubs at this point and kind of

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Speaker 4: wondering what they might do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the most realistic thing would be a

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Speaker 1: couple of those relievers. Mark Later Jr. Mark Later Junior

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Speaker 1: would be at the top of that list. All the

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Speaker 1: contenders are looking at him in particular, really good against lefties.

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Speaker 1: If you don't overuse him, there's no reason to think

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Speaker 1: that he can't continue on. They're looking at Hector Nerris,

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Speaker 1: but a little bit more complicated with that team option

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Speaker 1: that turns into a player option, right, I mean Tyson Miller,

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Speaker 1: I mean, go through the list. It's been a piece

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Speaker 1: and bullpen over the last month. So yeah, those would

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Speaker 1: be the most realistic deals. Now, the bigger deals would

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Speaker 1: be Christopher Morrell or Nico Horner or Jamison taie In

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Speaker 1: someone under contract that has nothing to do with this season.

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Speaker 1: It has. It would more have to do with rejiggering

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Speaker 1: your roster for the future. The other one obviously is

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Speaker 1: Cody Bellinger, but his injury and his contract status make

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Speaker 1: that complicated as well. So it just depends on how

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Speaker 1: far how aggressive Jed wants to go and sort of

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Speaker 1: changing up his team, and I think he needs to

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Speaker 1: look at all options because this season has been such

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Speaker 1: a disappointment so far.

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Speaker 4: I mean, we've known Jed for such a long time

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Speaker 4: and you've gotten to know so many executives at the

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Speaker 4: highest levels of the sport and your role at ESPN, Like,

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Speaker 4: what is kind of a perception of Jed as a

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Speaker 4: deal maker? And and I think back to you had

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Speaker 4: a great line. I think it was on Waddle and Sylvia.

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Speaker 4: You are told sort of like the if I get

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Speaker 4: it right, the White Socks or a mid market team

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Speaker 4: that operates like a small market team, and the Cubs

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Speaker 4: are a big market team that operates like a mid

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Speaker 4: market team. And now that kind of goes all the

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Speaker 4: way to the top. But just Jed as a player

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Speaker 4: kind of in this industry, what is kind of the

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Speaker 4: read on him from his colleagues peers?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that line, by the way, was told to me

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Speaker 1: by another executive. I didn't make that line up. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah. So just to be clear, that's you know,

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Speaker 1: that's what the industry thinks of the Chicago teams, or

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Speaker 1: at least one person.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he can't say you can't play the whole industry.

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Speaker 1: But I think this would won't surprise anybody. I think

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Speaker 1: people around the league think Jed's a solid, solid executive.

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Speaker 1: There is that there are some executives and I think

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Speaker 1: I would put Jed in this class. They never want

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Speaker 1: to lose a deal. Now, I know that's you know,

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Speaker 1: that's an obvious statement. Who wants to lose a deal?

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Speaker 1: But it's sort of default position, is that. I mean

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Speaker 1: we saw that with Cody Bellinger and you know, guys

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Speaker 1: sort of coming to the market coming back to him

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Speaker 1: on several players, you know, the yeah, the one that showed.

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Speaker 1: The one thing I did say early on and I

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Speaker 1: think this rings true, is I think it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: interesting to watch the New York Mets with kind of

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Speaker 1: a guy like David Stearns combined with an aggressive owner

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Speaker 1: like Steve Cohene. I think that will work eventually. I

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Speaker 1: like that idea of opposing views. I'm not sure the

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Speaker 1: Cubs have enough of the aggressive opposing view. You know,

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Speaker 1: Carter is kind of in line with Jed. Who's in

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Speaker 1: line with Tom? Now that is that is good and

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Speaker 1: healthy for your organization. Again, who wants to lose deals?

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Speaker 1: But this is an irrational sport which rewards players at

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Speaker 1: an age that maybe they shouldn't be rewarded for at

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Speaker 1: But but that's just how it works. That's why I

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Speaker 1: never get into always Dansby Swanson overpaid it's that's that's

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Speaker 1: not relevant because every free agent is essentially overpaid and

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Speaker 1: an exactly they should all be paid at twenty four

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Speaker 1: years old, not twenty nine. But that's just how the

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Speaker 1: system works. And you know, once in a while, you

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Speaker 1: just have to extend yourself even if the back end

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Speaker 1: is going to be problematic. We've seen this with John Melton,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not if there is a sort of vibe

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Speaker 1: to Jed outside the organization. It's just exactly that he's

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Speaker 1: not going to necessarily extend himself the way THEO has

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Speaker 1: or you know and his reputation and how that was developed.

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Speaker 1: So but Jed has a solid reputation. That'd be the

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Speaker 1: one little thing, which again is maybe a reason they

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Speaker 1: haven't signed up a big, big time free agent, you know,

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Speaker 1: since he took over.

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Speaker 4: Well, I gotta give you credit, man, because you in

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Speaker 4: your role at ESPN or on the road in October

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Speaker 4: a lot and like you're getting a good perspective that's

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Speaker 4: not just the rig lead bubble. And that's feels like

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Speaker 4: whenever you come back off those trips, you're like, where's

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Speaker 4: the stars? You need stars because you see those guys

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Speaker 4: performing in October and I think that's kind of what

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Speaker 4: this is setting up.

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Speaker 3: Right, Like Ken Jed planned a star.

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Speaker 4: I realize there's not like you know, a store or

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Speaker 4: like an app, you can just go get one. But

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Speaker 4: this offense to me, and we sit next to each other, Wrigley,

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Speaker 4: that's the missing piece, right, I mean, well, how do

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Speaker 4: you see this unfolding?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? The way I think we all agree, including Jed,

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Speaker 1: that stars win you championships, right, Yeah, And that's an

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Speaker 1: obvious statement, but it also the lack of stars can

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Speaker 1: hide some weaknesses. And what I'm getting at is, and

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Speaker 1: I've said this often this year, like they were six

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Speaker 1: in scoring last year, Right, we didn't cry too much

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Speaker 1: in the offseason about lack of stars because there are

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Speaker 1: times where a solid nine man lineup can get the

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Speaker 1: job done.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: There's different ways to there's different paths. But what I

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Speaker 1: think happened was is just so big So one year

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Speaker 1: you can be six and scoring and the next year

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Speaker 1: you can be twenty third. If you have anchors in

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Speaker 1: the middle of that lineup, that variance won't be as large.

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Speaker 1: You can kind of tone on things a little bit more.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're not there's more seventy five percent tile

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Speaker 1: or greater results instead of this ten percent to ninety percent.

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Speaker 1: You know that makes sense. So yeah, that that I

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Speaker 1: think that you can't be fooled by you. Oh we

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Speaker 1: had a good year. If you've lacked stars, you're not

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Speaker 1: gonna win consistently year in year out. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: just not going to happen. You might pop one year,

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Speaker 1: but there's a bigger thing here. Pat I'd like your

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Speaker 1: your perspective because I'll compliment you. You're one of the

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Speaker 1: honestly the few reporters, including myself, that's unemotional about your reporting,

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Speaker 1: and that is not easy to do in this dandarade.

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Speaker 1: You're straight down the middle about your reporting. And I

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Speaker 1: think Jed has put himself in a difficult position trying

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Speaker 1: to compete and rebuild at the same time. They stripped

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Speaker 1: it down in twenty twenty one. Usually, I mean they

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Speaker 1: really stripped it down. Usually that'd be followed by a

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Speaker 1: couple hundred lost seasons. And the big part of that

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Speaker 1: is giving runway to young players. Alexander Canario has no runway.

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Speaker 1: Pete Koor Armstrong is getting some runway, but it's not

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Speaker 1: the five hundred plate appearance plate appearance is no stress situation. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know. And so what's gonna happen as Matt Shaw

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Speaker 1: comes up, as Owen Casey comes up. Are they going

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Speaker 1: to a youth movement which is gonna be one step forward,

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Speaker 1: one step back, two step forwards, one step back, or

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Speaker 1: are they gonna do something else. The way you can

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Speaker 1: incorporate young players into a lineup, a competing lineup is

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Speaker 1: if you're the Phillies, you just have this massive talent

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Speaker 1: based massive leadership and you can bring you can bring

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Speaker 1: long whoever bryceon Stott or someone or Alec vohone, Alc

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Speaker 1: fohlone was now an All Star. So this is the

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Speaker 1: Judg's in a tough spot here because he didn't really rebuild.

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Speaker 1: He tried to compete and rebuild, and.

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Speaker 6: That's tough aircrats here from FT, I'm a former athlete

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: No, I think I think you nailed it again, Like

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Speaker 4: and that's kind of I wonder, like, where is Tom

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Speaker 4: Ricketts in all of this. I mean, we were there

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Speaker 4: this weekend and I think each crowd began with either

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Speaker 4: a thirty nine or a forty. The team is still

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Speaker 4: kind of creating that perception of being in the race,

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Speaker 4: like they're not out of it yet. And I think

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Speaker 4: this is what Tom wants in terms of every year

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Speaker 4: having a chance to be competitive. And you know, I

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Speaker 4: think It's funny the Arizona Diamondbacks. Seeing them, it's like, oh,

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Speaker 4: you just need to win eighty four games and sneak in.

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Speaker 4: It's like, well, that's a really good team that's handled

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Speaker 4: the Cups like all the time. I don't think you

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Speaker 4: can just like expect your team to be like dime Backs.

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Speaker 4: They have some really dynamic players, some great pitchers. They

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Speaker 4: have some resourcefuls in this that you've seen, you know,

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Speaker 4: up close, more than I have. And so yeah, I

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Speaker 4: think I'm with you, man.

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Speaker 3: I think it's hard to incorporate those players.

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Speaker 4: I think that's kind of why Jed hasn't moved some

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Speaker 4: of them is because he I think, deep down he

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Speaker 4: thinks like their best runway could be that like twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty six to twenty thirty or whatever. But that's also

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Speaker 4: at that point he will have been a Cups employee

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Speaker 4: for like decades, and that's just a hard sell in

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Speaker 4: a big market. So I think, yeah, it's super tricky there.

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Speaker 4: And I also like, don't think it's that far off either.

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Speaker 4: Like I'm not a Homer, I'm not like a super

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Speaker 4: optimistic Cups person, but their pitching's really good.

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Speaker 3: If you have that, you can kind of figure things out.

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Speaker 3: And I think if you add that big hitter in

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Speaker 3: the middle of it, but no doubt, like why did

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Speaker 3: you draft.

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Speaker 4: The Matt Shaws, the James Treanto's types, Like where are

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Speaker 4: they gonna fit? And they're gonna take They're gonna need

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Speaker 4: a lot of time to figure things out. And we

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Speaker 4: don't know where Christopher Morel is gonna be, but he

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Speaker 4: certainly hasn't like pass this audition.

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Speaker 3: You know, they.

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Speaker 4: Probably in hindsight, And I was the guy who said

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Speaker 4: you should probably just see what you have probably should

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Speaker 4: have moved him last offseason.

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Speaker 1: And I'll just go back to what I said before,

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Speaker 1: and you or you probably should have just said, look,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna do the best to win, but we're gonna

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Speaker 1: let Morel be himself for five hundred played appearances and

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Speaker 1: not worry to And same thing with Pete Crow. That's

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Speaker 1: what I'm getting at, Like it's it's it's not easy

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Speaker 1: to break into the big leagues and just you know,

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Speaker 1: catch fire on a on a competing team unless there's

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Speaker 1: an unbelievable support system there and and and and and

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Speaker 1: and there really is not in a lot of ways

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Speaker 1: compared to other other top teams. So I just think

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Speaker 1: it's it's now become alie more difficult tasks. You know,

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Speaker 1: that third wildcard has people thinking differently. You know, oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe I can't compete and rebuild at the same time.

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Speaker 1: And there's an aspect of this. I know you agree

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Speaker 1: with it. It just you said thirty eight thousand, forty thousand.

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Speaker 1: It's not like Jed or Tom walks the stadium and

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Speaker 1: gets booed. It's not like the players get booed. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's not really that tense in the press conference room

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Speaker 1: other than yesterday, or or in the locker room. Like

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Speaker 1: I just think we both have experienced situations where there's

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Speaker 1: wholly underachieving teams. It's a little bit more tense organically organically,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I think that plays in this sort

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Speaker 1: of I hate I know it's a cliche. Oh, ownership

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Speaker 1: doesn't care. There's forty thousand there, but it's human nature

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Speaker 1: to be like, you know what, Okay, we'll get there eventually.

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Speaker 1: Things are okay, farm system rankings are good, we're still

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Speaker 1: filling the stands. We'll be you know, like it's different

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Speaker 1: if your life as hell, you know, because the media,

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Speaker 1: the media and the fans are all over you, so

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Speaker 1: you know this. You're coming from the East Coast and everything.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, that's just kind of some of my rambling

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Speaker 1: thoughts there.

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Speaker 4: Know that there are two final topics that I want

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Speaker 4: to get you on. You mentioned there's obviously bad take Jesse,

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Speaker 4: which is hilariously overblown on social media. But I want

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Speaker 4: to ask you about Counsel because you actually, among the

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Speaker 4: people who cover him every.

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Speaker 3: Day, know him probably better than anyone.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you were in your capacities at ESPN, including

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Speaker 4: being you know, like a sideline reporter in his dugout

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Speaker 4: during the playoffs, Like, what has he mastered your expectations?

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Speaker 4: Because I think he does have an edge. He's very focused.

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Speaker 4: He's actually a lot more like I would say, humorous

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Speaker 4: than people would ever see on TV. Like, but I

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Speaker 4: just thought there'd be a little more of that kind

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Speaker 4: of tension there throughout. And I'm just curious you're kind

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Speaker 4: of broad takeaways on Craig in his first year in Chicago.

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Speaker 1: I'll put it simply, it feels like he's been observing

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Speaker 1: a lot, you know, that's the great way. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't feel like there's a lot of drivers of that

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Speaker 1: bus in there right now, and that includes Craig in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways. He doesn't have any of his

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Speaker 1: own coaches. He didn't know Ryan Flaerty even though he

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Speaker 1: hired him, but didn't have any relationships there. Just getting

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Speaker 1: down those relationships with the front office, which he probably

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Speaker 1: will have a bigger part of this offseason. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if he's taken the full year to kind of

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Speaker 1: observe and then put his fingerprints on the on the

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Speaker 1: whole organization a little bit more. But I felt like

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Speaker 1: he has not pushed a lot of buttons that maybe

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Speaker 1: he saw it in Milwaukee getting the most out of

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Speaker 1: the least. Now he has much more payroll to work with,

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Speaker 1: much more on paper talent, even though that may not

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Speaker 1: be true. So that's you know, I never covered him daily,

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Speaker 1: so there is a difference. I didn't I didn't know him.

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Speaker 1: I just know his personality, and his personality does match

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Speaker 1: he's but he's kind of buttoned up, you know, in

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Speaker 1: different settings. He's fun. He can be sarcastic. But I

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Speaker 1: thought he put his fingerprints more on the team and

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Speaker 1: that could manifest itself in a lot of ways. And frankly,

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Speaker 1: of course, there's behind the scenes stuff we don't see,

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Speaker 1: but we see the results, and the results aren't very good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're spot on with the evaluation here.

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Speaker 4: And then you know, sometimes you come in the first

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Speaker 4: year and you know you trade DJ Lemayu for where

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Speaker 4: whatever that trade.

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Speaker 3: In in story.

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Speaker 4: I get that part of it, but I think the

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Speaker 4: other part is very important what you mentioned of just

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Speaker 4: the I don't think there are bad dudes in that clubhouse.

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Speaker 4: I think they all work hard. I think they're very prepared,

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Speaker 4: like I think they're into it. But it's also impossible

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Speaker 4: to watch this team and think like, oh, this is

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Speaker 4: like great, great chemistry, like the best possible mix.

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Speaker 3: And I feel.

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Speaker 4: I may have overreacted in hindsight with some of the

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Speaker 4: Madden THEO raw stuff of just the you know, the

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Speaker 4: idea of a hangover, like.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes it just is a matter more of talent than

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Speaker 3: anything else.

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Speaker 4: But what is your vibe walking into that clubhouse every day,

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Speaker 4: and like where does it kind of how do you

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Speaker 4: kind of turn up some of those things if there

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Speaker 4: are things missing?

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Speaker 1: So I really want to run this by you because

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Speaker 1: you were here for the last run and take away

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Speaker 1: sixteen when they want just forget that for a moment,

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Speaker 1: but it really feels in some ways like eighteen and

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Speaker 1: nineteen you just said it. There were not bad guys

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Speaker 1: in there, you know, they were likable guys in up

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Speaker 1: individually likable guys now. But by eighteen or nineteen, for

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Speaker 1: whatever reason, probably because they had one in sixteen, they

395
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Speaker 1: weren't all position players. They were not on the same page.

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Speaker 1: They just weren't And for some reason it feels kind

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Speaker 1: of similar. Doesn't mean the camaraderie is not good, just

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Speaker 1: something isn't flowing, isn't working in the same way it

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Speaker 1: didn't work in eighteen or nineteen. Different names, different lineups

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Speaker 1: and and different expectations, even like that team was supposed

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Speaker 1: to really but within their bubble, it feels within each

402
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Speaker 1: bubble it feels similar. I can't put my finger on it.

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Speaker 1: It could be partly a lack of leadership in some ways.

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Speaker 1: I don't like the phrase thoh, they're all leaders. That

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Speaker 1: if if they're all leaders, you don't have twenty six leaders. No,

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Speaker 1: that means you don't have one. And by eighteen or nineteen,

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Speaker 1: position player wise, there was a lack of leadership. I

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Speaker 1: think you would agree, yes. And the last point, when

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Speaker 1: your best leader. Is your highest prey paid player at

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Speaker 1: the most important position arguably on defense, shortstop, and he's

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Speaker 1: having such a bad year that probably is going to

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Speaker 1: create a leadership void. Even though Craig says you should

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Speaker 1: be a leader no matter what you're doing, you know

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Speaker 1: how it is. You can't be having this bad of

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Speaker 1: a year and getting someone's face about their base running

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Speaker 1: or something. So I think Dansby having the year he's having,

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Speaker 1: I don't know this for sure, is probably impacting some

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Speaker 1: of this stuff that I'm talking about.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd agree with everything.

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Speaker 6: I just.

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Speaker 4: Like I said, from that prior experience of like how

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Speaker 4: much of it is you know, I guess maybe just

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Speaker 4: the blame game that's going to be going on at

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Speaker 4: Wrigley Field over the next several months here of like,

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Speaker 4: was it, you know, not enough talent being assembled? Was

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Speaker 4: it not managed and coached up properly? Are the players

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Speaker 4: just the mix just off in a certain way? And

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Speaker 4: I think what I took away from that eighteen nineteen

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Speaker 4: earrow was I did not fully appreciate them winning ninety

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Speaker 4: five games in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 3: I think you had said that, you know, one of

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Speaker 3: Joe's best jobs.

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Speaker 4: Managing which in real time did not you know, really

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Speaker 4: feel that way because of the way it ended, and

435
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 4: even in you know, twenty nineteen, you know, staying as

436
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 4: competitive as they did all the way until the end

437
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 4: was you know, I think killing once you got some

438
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 4: distance from it, that it's not that easy to do.

439
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 3: We're seeing it right now, and so yeah, man, I

440
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 3: don't know, we're gonna have a lot of.

441
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 4: One liners in a size when we're sitting next to

442
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 4: each other up in the press box over the next

443
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 4: several weeks and months.

444
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, the answer might be back to

445
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: what I said earlier. It's just really hard to compete

446
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 1: and rebuild. It could just be as simple as that.

447
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 1: And it's not leadership. But it's not this and it's

448
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 1: not that. It's just really they just said from twenty

449
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 1: two on, we're just going to try to build something.

450
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: By twenty four we might be like, Okay, it's still built,

451
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 1: like it just got it's got lost in the mess

452
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: of trying to compete, and you know, it's admirable, but

453
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: it could come back to bite jed. So that could

454
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 1: just be the simple answer. I as I've thought about

455
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,159
Speaker 1: it more lately, I feel like that that could be it,

456
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,199
Speaker 1: because I just see like we want so much out

457
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: of peak or armstrung like it's not easy unless you're

458
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: Chris Bryant or Bryce Harper might like. It takes a

459
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: little time, and you don't have time when you're trying

460
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: to win.

461
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 3: No doubt.

462
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,479
Speaker 4: I mean half measures in twenty twenty one, and they

463
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 4: kind of overperformed and then they crashed, and then I

464
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 4: think even last year kind of took cut them off

465
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 4: guard a little bit.

466
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 1: You know.

467
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 3: I don't think they thought it would come together that way.

468
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 4: It's certainly not that way with an eight game winning

469
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 4: streak and then twelve games over in September, and so

470
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 4: it's their messaging I think has not been exemplary. The

471
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 4: execution has been a little off here and there, and

472
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 4: that's why it's going to be very interesting late July.

473
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 3: Jesse, thank you as always for the time and insight.

474
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 4: I think we both behaved ourselves and didn't say anything

475
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 4: inappropriate the way we do in the press box or

476
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 4: at the hotel bar after the game.

477
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 3: So thanks a man. I'll be seeing you soon.

478
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: There were no bad takes on this one. Never never

479
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 1: that'll spend rate not to take another reclation.

480
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 3: All right, we'll do my man.

481
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: Take it easy, Okay. You gotta put