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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A mom and dad set

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Speaker 1: out for a mountain cabin and seemingly vanish into thin air.

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Speaker 1: Where are bart at Chrystal Holderson Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: That sounds very uncommon for the mom and dad to

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Speaker 1: leave to their cabin. They've gone there many many times

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Speaker 1: in the mountains, but then to suddenly just drop off

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Speaker 1: the face of the earth. Take a listen to this.

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Speaker 1: We got picked up and they all went up there

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Speaker 1: by like another couple picked up here, yeah, here at

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Speaker 1: Mouse Okay, before I woke up, everything packed up them

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Speaker 1: And do you don't know who they're who? Jeez? That's

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Speaker 1: I mean that that has happened before where they just

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Speaker 1: kind of head out before I leave or I wake up.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm a heavy sleeper. I'm on a schedule.

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Speaker 1: I look at it six to feed the dogs and

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Speaker 1: they are out before six. The rush to get to

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Speaker 1: the north. Okay, you are hearing their son, Chandler talking

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Speaker 1: to three News. Now Adam's Duxter and this is what

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Speaker 1: we know. The son they're in the home. Heavy sleeper

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Speaker 1: gets up at six am. Mom and dad already gone.

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Speaker 1: They had packed everything the night before to head off

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Speaker 1: for a weekend at their mountain cabin, but then seemingly

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Speaker 1: they disappear into thin air. Well, they're not magicians, so

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Speaker 1: where are they? With me? An all star panel to

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Speaker 1: make sense of it? California prosecutor, author of Red Flags

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Speaker 1: on Amazon. You can finder at Wendy Patrick PhD dot

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Speaker 1: com and most of today we doctor Wendy K. C B.

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Speaker 1: Hugh San Diego Wendy Patrick with US. Doctor Jeff Gardeer,

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Speaker 1: Board Certified Clinical Psychologist, Professor Behavioral Medicine at Truro College.

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Speaker 1: You can find him at doctor Jeff Gardeer dot com.

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University,

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Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and start

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Speaker 1: of a brand new hit podcast feature on iHeart the

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Speaker 1: Pikedon Massacre. But first I want to go out to

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Speaker 1: Crime Online dot com investigative reporter Nicole Parton. So you know,

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Speaker 1: for instance, Nicole Jackie thinks I'm crazy, But this morning,

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Speaker 1: this is even early for me. I got up at four, okay,

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Speaker 1: but typically I'm up between five and six, and my

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Speaker 1: children sleep through everything I do. I mean, I take

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Speaker 1: great precautions not to wake them up, but they sleep

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Speaker 1: straight through it. So this couple was getting up mom

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Speaker 1: and dad Bart and Krista Halderson to go to their

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Speaker 1: mountain cabin. Where is their home and where is their

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Speaker 1: mountain cabin. So their mountain cabin is in White Lake,

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Speaker 1: and that is about a forty five minute drive from

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Speaker 1: their home. And apparently this was a common thing for them.

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Speaker 1: They had the cabin there, they went out, They had

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Speaker 1: made plans to go up and spend the Fourth of

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Speaker 1: July holiday, and so this wasn't uncommon for them. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't uncommon for them to get up and pack away

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Speaker 1: the car and leave early and head up there to

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Speaker 1: explore and have a good time. But what you're saying

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Speaker 1: is concerning me on mini many levels. I understand that

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Speaker 1: they would go to their place at White Lake. It's

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Speaker 1: in Wisconsin. They live in Windsor, Wisconsin. Often they spend

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Speaker 1: a lot of weekends up there. But now that you're

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Speaker 1: clarifying for me that it's only a forty five minute drive,

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Speaker 1: how do you just drop off the map on a

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Speaker 1: forty five minute drive. Of course it has happened. Joe

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Hey, listen, it's my experience. People just don't

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Speaker 1: simply vanish into thin air. You know, maybe one person does,

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Speaker 1: but you're talking about two people that would simply vanish

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Speaker 1: into thing there. I think that that's highly unlikely. Nan,

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Speaker 1: you know, we hear about it all the time. And

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, a death investigator, brings up a really

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Speaker 1: good point. He's a forensics expert. And if you look

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Speaker 1: at history, and I learned a lot from studying method

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Speaker 1: and assessment of homicide and suicide, one person disappearing, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that happens all the time. Two people disappearing, That does

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Speaker 1: not happen all the time. Jack. You remember recently we

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Speaker 1: covered the case of a husband and wife were rving

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Speaker 1: and they were rving across the country. I think they

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Speaker 1: were heading down to Florida at the tail end of

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Speaker 1: their trip and they were supposed to be on a

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Speaker 1: FaceTime with their grand she's like one year old, and

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Speaker 1: they didn't make make it to the birthday party on

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Speaker 1: a FaceTime and that's when everybody realized they vanished. So

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Speaker 1: when you hear of a couple vanishing, and it brings

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Speaker 1: to mind a case I handled well. I was part

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Speaker 1: of it very early on. I watched and observed and monitored.

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Speaker 1: The child did a little group work for it of

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Speaker 1: a kindergarten teacher, maybe even in pre K and she

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Speaker 1: taught music and movement. And her name is Julie Love.

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Speaker 1: She went out for a jog and never came home.

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Speaker 1: Her body was she had one glass eye. Nobody knew it,

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Speaker 1: but her glass eye was found near a dumpster months

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Speaker 1: and months and months later. So it does happen, even statistically,

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Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, people do go out for a normal reason

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Speaker 1: and they're never seen again. That's true, But we're talking

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Speaker 1: about a short span of time comparatively. If it takes

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Speaker 1: forty five minutes to cross the distance, and it was

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Speaker 1: some sort of a natural, explainable like an accident you

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Speaker 1: would have on the car, you would have gone both bodies.

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Speaker 1: But to have this type of a disappearance in a

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Speaker 1: well known area where there's obviously a thoroughfare, even if

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Speaker 1: they were driving it early in the morning, to have

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Speaker 1: that kind of a disappearance, that would indicate fell play. Now,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that there was a big thoroughfare. Nicole

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Speaker 1: parton Nicole. Now, aren't you joining me from Tennessee? I

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Speaker 1: am joining you from Florida. Nancy Okay, you're a hard

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Speaker 1: one to pin down, aren't you. Tennessee is home, so

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Speaker 1: I'm familiar with those windy mountain roads. So what I'm

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Speaker 1: saying is a major thoroughfare, not every If you're going

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Speaker 1: up to the lake cabin, that suggests to me it's

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Speaker 1: kind of remote. It's off the beaten path. So I

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Speaker 1: don't know that there was a major thoroughfare between wins

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin and White Lake. And I don't know that much

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Speaker 1: about White Lake, Wisconsin. What can you tell me about

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Speaker 1: the cabin where they were? How long had they had it?

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Speaker 1: Do they go up every weekend? They didn't travel up

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Speaker 1: there every weekend, but they went quite often. Their neighbors,

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Speaker 1: some of their friends had been up there with them

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Speaker 1: before and spent some holidays in some weekends. And it

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Speaker 1: is off the beaten path. I wouldn't say it's extreme

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Speaker 1: camping out into the wilderness, but it's certainly out of town.

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Speaker 1: Let me tell you what I've learned about White Lake.

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Speaker 1: It is not referred to as a town. It's referred

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Speaker 1: to as a village in Langlade County, Wisconsin, and the

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Speaker 1: population at last census was three hundred and sixty three

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Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty three. That is remote in my mind.

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Speaker 1: That stremote, and I grew up in a very rural area.

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Speaker 1: So what was different about this trip this weekend other

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Speaker 1: than it was the July fourth weekend? Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to our friends over at three news now, So my

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Speaker 1: last message I got from them they were going to

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Speaker 1: White Lake for the fourth of July. There's some festivities

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Speaker 1: that go around there, you know, better drink prices at

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Speaker 1: the bars, stuff like that. Yeah, White Lake, Wisconsin. And

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Speaker 1: that their plan, or from to my knowledge, they're going

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Speaker 1: to a lang Lane County to a cabin, their cabin

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Speaker 1: along the way. They could have stopped many places that

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't know all of them. But it's about three

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Speaker 1: hours north of Madison or Deane County. Now, he said,

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Speaker 1: three hours, and I'm wondering if well, if you look

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Speaker 1: at it as the crow flies, it looks like forty

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Speaker 1: five minutes, but going up and down windy mountain roads,

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Speaker 1: it turns into three hours. Now he says, Also, there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of places to stop. I doubt they're

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Speaker 1: stopping at a bar at six am. They're with another couple.

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Speaker 1: So what happened and who's the other couple. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our friend Tony Gali Tobkow twenty seventies. Bart

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Speaker 1: and Krista Halderson of Windsor had plans for the fourth

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Speaker 1: Their plans are going up with their friends and do

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Speaker 1: some minor pairs on our cabin. That cabin is some

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Speaker 1: three hours away from Windsor on a lake in a

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Speaker 1: small community in Langlade County. Did you literally see them

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Speaker 1: pulling out of the driveway heading out? No. Their son

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Speaker 1: Chandler Halderson, who asked to be off camera, says whoever

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Speaker 1: his parents were traveling with from this neighborhood were to

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Speaker 1: do the driving. He says he received a text from

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Speaker 1: his mother. She got back to me on Sunday said

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Speaker 1: they made it safely. That's the last he's heard from

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Speaker 1: his parents. Time Stories with Nancy Grace Guys. A couple

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Speaker 1: seemingly just disappears into thin air on the way of

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Speaker 1: their lake cabin. We also are learning they were going

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Speaker 1: to go and do repairs. What kind of repairs and

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Speaker 1: why take a listen to the sun speaking to three

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Speaker 1: News now. So that would have been the sac INDs

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Speaker 1: right of July when they left, and that's the last

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Speaker 1: you'd heard of them, and then was it yesterday that

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Speaker 1: you called the Sheriff's office or someone with your family

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Speaker 1: called the Sheriff's office just to show back on the

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Speaker 1: actually got a text on them on Sunday telling me

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Speaker 1: they were going to White Lake. Okay, I don't know

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Speaker 1: when the text was sent because of reception issues that

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Speaker 1: they would have and they usually turned their phone off

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Speaker 1: because of pay for roaming. Yeah, they it could have

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Speaker 1: been whenever they sent that message that they made it

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Speaker 1: safefully and they're going to White Lake for the fourth Now.

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Speaker 1: We're also learning from Adam and Duxter at three News

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Speaker 1: now that there was a problem with the roaming on

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Speaker 1: their cell phones. And we've all gone through that. When

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Speaker 1: you go to and I just went through it with

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Speaker 1: my children going to scout camp up in the mountains,

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Speaker 1: it's very hard to call out. It happens. These two

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Speaker 1: were going up into a remote area. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to Adam Duxter. Chandler says he assumed his parents had

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Speaker 1: turned off their phones to avoid roaming charges, and it

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Speaker 1: wasn't until after the holiday weekend ended that he got nervous.

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Speaker 1: Is this weekend it was packed? I guess that packed.

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Speaker 1: Maybe the weather wasn't great for messaging tonight. Dane County

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Speaker 1: Sheriff's Office says there are too many unanswered questions to

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Speaker 1: say anything. Well, Langlade County Sheriff's Office wouldn't confirm they're

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Speaker 1: helping in a search. Police, instead spending today interviewing neighbors

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Speaker 1: like Brett Schuster himself the shocked. I mean, it's everything

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Speaker 1: that seems. You know, it's odd and shocking that you know,

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Speaker 1: expector and to space seeing something, especially that close to

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Speaker 1: your house. I hope everything works out and it's just

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Speaker 1: a misunderstanding with communication and comes pulling in the driveway

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Speaker 1: any minute. And Chandler Holderson says for his parents to

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Speaker 1: leave even with another person does happen from time to time.

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Speaker 1: But he tells me another family member went to that

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Speaker 1: cabin to check out cell service and was able to

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Speaker 1: get through, So that tells me the seal service worked

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Speaker 1: in that area. You know, I didn't realize, did Dodgor

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Speaker 1: Jeff Gardier they're still roaming charges on cell phones, you know,

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Speaker 1: so funny you should say that. I was thinking, I

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Speaker 1: think we found a way to get on WhatsApp and

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Speaker 1: other sorts of services, and people really don't use roaming

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Speaker 1: as much anymore, and if there is roaming, perhaps the

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Speaker 1: charges are not as repressive as they once were. Are

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Speaker 1: there still roaming charges? Wendy Jess got Nicole, I thought

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Speaker 1: that they were over. You know, that really threw me

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Speaker 1: for a loop. I can't remember the last time that

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Speaker 1: I was hit with a roaming charge. And you know,

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Speaker 1: like you, Nancy, I camp and do interesting things in

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Speaker 1: remote areas, and you know, learning that this was a

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Speaker 1: real remote area, one of the first things that struck

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Speaker 1: me is they would know their neighbors, and they'd know

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Speaker 1: the people that worked at the local grocery store and

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Speaker 1: all the rest of it. So it's become even more suspicious.

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Speaker 1: You know, I just can't figure this out because they

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Speaker 1: left with another couple. Nobody actually saw them leave, but

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Speaker 1: they left that morning before six am when the sun

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Speaker 1: gets up. But who's the other couple? I mean, let

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Speaker 1: me go to you, Donna, Jeff Guardier. You and I've

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Speaker 1: talked many, many times about routine evidence, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's a bad title for it, but that's what it's called.

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Speaker 1: It's evidence of routine. In other words, if I do

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Speaker 1: not see my executive producer Jackie Howard. We've bye about

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Speaker 1: an hour and a half before we go to air.

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Speaker 1: Something is wrong, very wrong. That's her routine every day.

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Speaker 1: I say, you want a cup of coffee? So she goes,

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Speaker 1: no way, am I drinking your coffee? That every day? Now,

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Speaker 1: My parents, doctor Jeff Gardier, would go out every Friday

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Speaker 1: night with Sanders and Jeanette Johnson for years. Every Friday

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Speaker 1: night they go to the same place, the Green Jacket

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Speaker 1: in Macon, Georgia, every Friday night without deviation. I don't

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Speaker 1: even remember them going to a different restaurant. And then

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Speaker 1: they'd be home by about nine o'clock. So who were they?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I knew who they were with. Who are

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Speaker 1: these people that nobody can identify that they left with

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Speaker 1: for the weekend? And what makes it even stranger is

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Speaker 1: that these are folks that supposedly live in there neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: So why isn't anyone in the neighborhood asking what happened

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Speaker 1: to the other couple or if that couple did come back,

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Speaker 1: why aren't they saying anything? So of course that makes

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Speaker 1: things extremely strange. So when they patcheck, what do you

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Speaker 1: make so called routine evidence evidence of routine. Now a

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Speaker 1: good defensey training will aregue that means nothing. Oh, I

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Speaker 1: think there's no playbook for how are you going to

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Speaker 1: live your life? But that's b Yes, people are creatures

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Speaker 1: of habit. We like a certain thing and we do

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Speaker 1: it over and over. I mean, I don't know about

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Speaker 1: you guys, but I said, at the same spot every

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Speaker 1: night at the dinner table. Lucy's on my leaf and

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Speaker 1: John David's I'm all right, and my husband David's in

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Speaker 1: front of me. We just like those seats and we

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Speaker 1: don't change. I think you've characterized dinner tables across the

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Speaker 1: country because there's a reason we call ourselves creatures of habit,

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Speaker 1: and the evidence code picks that up and allows us

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Speaker 1: to introduce exactly that type of evidence. And there's no

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Speaker 1: indication that these parents are any different than the rest

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Speaker 1: of us, which is why it is so odd that

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Speaker 1: this weekend just seems so out of character and out

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Speaker 1: of their usual procedure and practice. So yes, I think

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Speaker 1: that'll be just dynamite evidence one way or another to

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Speaker 1: try to figure out how in the world did they

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Speaker 1: happen to disappear this particular weekend. Well, even the neighbors

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Speaker 1: know something is very very wrong. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: Tony Galli k w KOW twenty seven neighbor Brett Schuster's

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Speaker 1: reaction to the Holderson's disappearance. Wow wow, you know, my

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Speaker 1: wife has pretty shook up too. I mean, they're very

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Speaker 1: nice couple, very nice family. Detectives now go door to

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Speaker 1: door here well sheriff's personnel here in Dane County are

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Speaker 1: checking for any and all information. The missing couple's son

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Speaker 1: says law enforcement in Langlade County has checked on the

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Speaker 1: family's cabin there, and he says that visit only adds

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Speaker 1: to the mystery. The sheriff said it looked like there

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Speaker 1: wasn't anyone home. Family and friends hope the Halderson's unexpected

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Speaker 1: extended time away is just that and not assigned. They're

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Speaker 1: in trouble, away, but not assigned. They're in trouble. You know,

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Speaker 1: just got morgan. With the advent very common use of

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Speaker 1: cell phones, It's very hard for me to take in

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Speaker 1: that this couple, this married couple with a grown son

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Speaker 1: living at home, just disappear and nobody can find them.

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Speaker 1: But the advent of cell phone usage, it just doesn't

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Speaker 1: even make sense to me. No, it doesn't to me either, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: And you know, like I said earlier, one person, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll buy into it. You've got two people that are missing,

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Speaker 1: and also where's their car, you know, or where's this

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Speaker 1: couple's car. I'm sure that probably knowing how thoroughed that

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Speaker 1: I do personally how thoroughed. The state police are in Wisconsin,

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Speaker 1: they would have driven both of these corridors. And there

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Speaker 1: are actually two corridors to get up there. One is

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Speaker 1: a more real route that goes through Wisconsin's absolutely beautiful

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Speaker 1: going through this area, through Oshkosh and all these areas.

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Speaker 1: That route takes a little bit longer, and you're on

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Speaker 1: a little bit of Interstate. The other route takes Interstate

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Speaker 1: almost all the way to this location. So, yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: going on a vacation, you're going to visit your cabin

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Speaker 1: when you want to get out into the bucolic beauty

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Speaker 1: of the countryside up there. Maybe they did that, but

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Speaker 1: along the way you would see some evidence that the

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Speaker 1: car is missing, because I think that wherever they are,

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Speaker 1: the vehicle would be there too. So is there evidence

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Speaker 1: that a vehicle is run off the road? Well, remember,

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Speaker 1: didn't didn't they say they were going up with the

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Speaker 1: other couple. Yeah, but you know there has to be

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Speaker 1: some missing Well well, yeah, but we don't know who

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Speaker 1: this other couple is. So you're are we going to

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Speaker 1: say that, you know, these two folks that are missing

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Speaker 1: or just placed out on the side of the road,

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Speaker 1: they're just out there in the wilderness, just kind of

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Speaker 1: walking along and I can't figure out how to get back.

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Speaker 1: It leads me to believe that something very nefarious as

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Speaker 1: this go ahead and jump in. I'm trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out what detectives need to do first in a case

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Speaker 1: like that. Was that you, Nicola, Wendy? Now that was me?

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Speaker 1: You know, don't we know our parents friends, at least

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Speaker 1: friends that are close enough to spend the weekend with,

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Speaker 1: like Jeanette and Sanders. Yeah, I mean, just to have

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Speaker 1: a mystery couple on the scene that happens to have

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Speaker 1: been driving that nobody saw, that left before dawn with

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Speaker 1: no car that has been recovered. I mean, now we've

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Speaker 1: got four people presumably missing and no vehicle. It's just

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Speaker 1: there's more and more indications that it wasn't a natural accident,

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Speaker 1: that it wasn't fact self. I guess just go ahead Yeah,

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Speaker 1: by the time you get to the point in life

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Speaker 1: where they are in middle age, you've got a set

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Speaker 1: group of friends. It's not like you're I don't know

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about. Well, hey, listen, you've had time

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Speaker 1: enough to vet everybody that you want, and your circle's

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Speaker 1: getting smaller and smaller. These are the people I want

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Speaker 1: to spend time with, all right, It's not like you're

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Speaker 1: just going out and finding random strangers. These are the

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Speaker 1: people I feel comfortable with. These are the people that

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Speaker 1: I want to, you know, sit around and if you

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Speaker 1: want to be chopped in a car for three hours, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that I would choose to my own volition. You're not

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Speaker 1: just gonna this isn't going to be a randomized of

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Speaker 1: then I agree. I think what you're saying. Let me

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Speaker 1: decipher that stream of consciousness is that to be trapped

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Speaker 1: in a car with another couple for three hours, it's

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Speaker 1: got to be somebody you know very well and that

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Speaker 1: you choose to be with, or you could just take

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Speaker 1: your own car. And therefore we should know who their

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Speaker 1: inner circle is. So let's take a recap of what

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Speaker 1: do we know. Take a listen to our friends at

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Speaker 1: News three Hour Lives with his parents in the village

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Speaker 1: of Windsor and says another unknown couple picked them up

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Speaker 1: early Friday morning before he was a week and tonight

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Speaker 1: we're left to wonder what happened to Barton, Christa Halder said.

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Speaker 1: Chris Schuster says, his usually quiet street, he's busier than

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Speaker 1: ever since last night. I'll pull it in. There is

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Speaker 1: a couple of shaws out there that two hours later,

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Speaker 1: there's three four detectives there. As we saw the detectives

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Speaker 1: under the house. That's where we do there's something going

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Speaker 1: on inside Bart's house. Shortly after, the Dean County Sheriff's

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Speaker 1: Office to shared this photo of bart and Christa Halder.

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Speaker 1: Sent Police say the couple had planned to go to

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Speaker 1: their cabin in Langlade County. Their son, Chandler, asked not

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Speaker 1: to be shown on camera, but he told us he

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Speaker 1: didn't see his parents sleeve and added they didn't drive themselves,

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Speaker 1: or they were picked up by their friends who I

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Speaker 1: never got the name of, and I assumed it was

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Speaker 1: someone I was aware of the close neighbors of theirs

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Speaker 1: up the street, or they're best friends down on the

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Speaker 1: east side, so that's what I assumed. I never really

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Speaker 1: asked any further crime stories. With Nancy Grace Gods. We

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Speaker 1: were talking about the disappearance of a couple well known

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Speaker 1: in their community that simply drive a hop skipping to

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Speaker 1: jump away to their mountain cabin and are never seen

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Speaker 1: again Bart and Krista Holderson and then comes a break

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Speaker 1: in the case. Take a listen to the Dane County

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Speaker 1: Sheriff Calvin Barrett. The Dane County Sheriff's office immediately began

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Speaker 1: the investigation and got in contact with the land Lake

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Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Office to make contact with their cabin in

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Speaker 1: White Lake, Wisconsin. The deputies reported that there was no

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Speaker 1: signs of immediate activity at that location. An investigation progressed

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Speaker 1: and detectives interview friends, family, and neighbors of the missing couple,

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Speaker 1: which resulted in detectives finding unknown or unidentifiable remaining at

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Speaker 1: a search. Warm was attained of the property and deputies

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Speaker 1: are continuing to look area before additional habits requires to

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Speaker 1: this investigation. Okay, straight out to you, Nicole Parton Crime

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Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter, Where were the remains of

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Speaker 1: this lovely couple found? So, there was a neighbor who

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Speaker 1: had reported some suspicion of some property really remote area

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Speaker 1: in the same county as the home, not very far,

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Speaker 1: but yet remote, out of town, out of sight. And

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Speaker 1: it's when the authorities went to that property that they

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Speaker 1: found a bloody tark that they located human remains, and

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Speaker 1: those human remains had been really really horrible sight, chopped up, dismembered,

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Speaker 1: and partial remains, not an entire body was found. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Jeff Gardier, a board certified psychologist, Professor Behavioral Medicine at

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Speaker 1: Truro College. Doctor Gardier, you and I've discussed this before.

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Speaker 1: There's the thing as a murder, of course, but it's

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Speaker 1: a whole another scenario to dismember a human body, the

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Speaker 1: mindset required for that. And you've got to my understanding,

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Speaker 1: what are both of the bodies have been found. What

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Speaker 1: we're talking here is right, not just a murder, but

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Speaker 1: rage and depravity. And therefore this is a situation that

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Speaker 1: now speaks to who is guilty of this? And if

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Speaker 1: we suspect you know, we work within that orbit. Right now,

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Speaker 1: there is conflicting evidence. We are learning that one body,

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Speaker 1: a male, has been found that we believe it is

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Speaker 1: bart A Halderson. Now his wife Krista, according to prosecutors,

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Speaker 1: is still missing. Now, that is a very unusual scenario.

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Speaker 1: But to doctor Jeff Gardier, regarding the dismemberment of a body,

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Speaker 1: that's a whole nother mindset. Absolutely, what we're looking at

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Speaker 1: is not just possibly intent, but depravity and rage. You know,

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00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 1: to have rage, Wendy Patrick, it could mean either you

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00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: know the person very well and you have rage toward them,

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00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: or it could be misguided rage. Let me just cite

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Speaker 1: on the Long Island Jogger. Remember the perp in that case,

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Speaker 1: the victim Karina Pa Toronto. The perp in that case

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00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: had never met her before, but he violently assaulted her

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Speaker 1: and beat her, knocking out her teeth, strangled her. It

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Speaker 1: was misguided rage on her. So while we think this

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Speaker 1: was a rage killing in a rage dismemberment, I don't

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Speaker 1: know how much that really helps us in identifying the killer. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's true, you know you do have that just raw emotion.

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Speaker 1: But you know, one other thing about dismemberment is it

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Speaker 1: takes time. This isn't a you know, a bullet in

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Speaker 1: the head that can kill instantly. Dismemberment is a process.

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Speaker 1: And if you combine that with rage you're really looking

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Speaker 1: at a strategy because you have to have the right tools,

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00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: and you have to think it through and you have

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Speaker 1: to decide how you're going to do it and where

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Speaker 1: and when. So this actually seems more like something that

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00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: involves more planning in addition to, as you mentioned, the

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00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: requisite emotion regardless of the sort. Take a Listen to

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Speaker 1: you more from the Dane County Sheriff, Calvin Barrett. When

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Speaker 1: and where were these remains found that you're talking about?

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Speaker 1: They were found approximately eighth Do you aware rural Wisconsin,

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Speaker 1: rural d County? What community sheriff is in a rural

427
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: area of d County. You can't say more specifically than

428
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 1: they now, Again, this is an ongoing investigation or we

429
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: don't want to interrupt what we have going on right now.

430
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: We want to ensure that the investigation is done thoroughly

431
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: and it's completed to the best of our builds. Okay,

432
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: you know, the more we ask, the less we're hearing.

433
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: So Nicole parton, where is this location? You said it

434
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 1: was near the home. Are you talking about the residence

435
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: or the lake house near the residence, So in the

436
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 1: same leney as the residence. So they never made it

437
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 1: anywhere close to the lake house, correct, right, right, that's right, okay,

438
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: in my mind, that really changes things. Prime Stories with

439
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. For those of you just joining us, we

440
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: were talking about the very unusual disappearance of a lovely

441
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 1: couple by all accounts, Bart and Krista Holderson, who leave

442
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: early in the morning. They're all packed the night before

443
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: to head out to their lake cabin, and they never

444
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: make it. Days pass as Sun reports them missing. Now

445
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: we're understanding that human remains have been found, but there's more.

446
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 1: Take a listen to This is obvious worry tonight here

447
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: in Windsor over the possibility the human remains found Thursday

448
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: are connected to the missing couple of Bart Halderson and

449
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: Krista Halderson. Their son, Chandler, was arrested Thursday for allegedly

450
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: providing false information to investigators. Before his arrest, I was

451
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: out here with Chandler Halderson and spoke to him about

452
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: his parents disappearance. They're probably at a casino, their phones off,

453
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: no reception somewhere. Maybe they're they're on a boat having

454
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: some fun with their friends. Members of but Deane County

455
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: Sheriff Calvin Barrett says there's no indication the missing couple

456
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: went north to their Langlade County lakeside cabin as Chandler

457
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: Holderson claimed. As sheriff's personnel searched near the Holderson home.

458
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: The sheriff says they are also searching separately where the

459
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: human remains were found in rural Dane County. We interviewed friends, family,

460
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: and neighbors and were able to get that information in

461
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: that location based off of the information provided by those

462
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: who we interviewed throughout the investigation. Let me let this

463
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: sink in. You were just listening to our friends at

464
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: w KOW twenty seven news. That was Tony Galley speaking.

465
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: Just pause, just for a moment. You know, I don't

466
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,719
Speaker 1: know about the rest of you. To you, Wendy Patrick,

467
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: doctor Jeff Guardier, Jos got Morgan and Cole Parton, and

468
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: our rush to solve a case, to report a case,

469
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: to figure out a case, to go through this scene

470
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: for forensically jo Scott the minute details. Let me let

471
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: this sink in. Authority searched the area and found remains

472
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: later identified as a human torso, so at the very

473
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: beginning they couldn't even identify what they had found, they

474
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: didn't know what it was. That's how much the husband,

475
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: Bart Holderson had been butchered. It was a human torso,

476
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:44,479
Speaker 1: no legs, no arms, no neck, no head, just the

477
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: torso so degraded and so butchered that when it was

478
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: first found, they didn't even know what they had found.

479
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: They knew they found something, but they didn't even know

480
00:30:54,840 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: what later identified as a human torso. Okay, Joe Scott,

481
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: do your work. You know, Nancy, the thing about dismemberment,

482
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: as Wendy had mentioned, it does require tools, but you

483
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: know what else it requires. It requires privacy, It requires

484
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: access to the tools, and it requires seclusion. The beauty

485
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: of cases where you have an individual that has butchered

486
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: somebody is that there is going to be a huge,

487
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: i mean a troph of physical evidence in this case.

488
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: You're gonna have blood evidence, You're gonna have tool mark evidence,

489
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 1: You're going to actually have evidence in this particular case

490
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: because from what I'm hearing, they're actually saying that the

491
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: dad has been shot, that there is an evidence that

492
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: he had sustained a gunshot one, so that's going to

493
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: be an additional tie back. Then you've got transportative evidence,

494
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: which if let's just think about this just for a second.

495
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: You decide that you're going to butcher somebody, how are

496
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: you going to get them from their home to the

497
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: location where the remains, these mutilated remains are actually found.

498
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: That means there has to be some conveyance. They're not

499
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: saying that it's like in the backyard. It's some distance.

500
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: It's near the home, but it's some distance. Somebody just

501
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: didn't put them on the back. They had to physically

502
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: transport them there. So you're talking about a tremendous amount

503
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: of blood evidence it's going to be left behind in

504
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: the conveyance that they use. Additionally, so you've got the

505
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: primary crime scene where they were killed, the secondary crime

506
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: scene where they were butchered, the tertiary right crime scene,

507
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: the transport to hide the remains unless they were unless

508
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: the dad was butchered out there in the middle of nowhere. Yeah,

509
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: and then saying crime scene would be the disposal. Yeah,

510
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: you have to think about, you know, what kind of

511
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: what kind of items were you used? I heard a

512
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,719
Speaker 1: tarp had been used, but why is the body so mutilated?

513
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: This gives me an indication, at least if I were

514
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: to see the remains, which obviously I haven't, But there

515
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: was confusion, maybe there was an inability to understand the

516
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: technical ramifications of dismembering a body, which by the way,

517
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: is very very difficult to do if you don't have

518
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: the appropriate tools like were having the more like scalpels

519
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: and bone saws and all these sorts of things. At best,

520
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: you're using rudimentary hardware stuff you can buy at a

521
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: local hardware store. It makes it very very difficult. So

522
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: how are you going to cover all that up? There's

523
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: so many you know, people think that they're going to

524
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: get away with crimes if they try to, you know,

525
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: pull the body apart and take it apart. What folks

526
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: don't realize you're creating more evidence. You're actually creating more evidence.

527
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: You're right, The more you try to conceal, the more

528
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: evidence you're creating. But right now the Sun is only

529
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: suspected of lying. Take a listen to our cut eighteen.

530
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: This is the Deputy District Attorney William Brown. Listen. So

531
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: back on July seventh, mister Halderson made contact with the

532
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: Dane County Sheriff's Department, reporting that his parents were missing.

533
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: In that contact, mister Halderson made a great deal of

534
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: statements indicating where he thought his parents were, sending police

535
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: essentially in a wild goose chase throughout the state of

536
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: Wisconsin looking for them with an unidentified couple. Essentially told

537
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 1: the police a web of lies regarding things they were packing,

538
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: items they were taking, were not taking, even indicating that

539
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: there were messages between him and his parents while they

540
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: were gone. That all he alleged occurred on the second

541
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 1: of July. Eventually, mister Halderson, obviously in the seventh then

542
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: reports his parents missing after they've been gone for five

543
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: days at that point and an investigation is starting. Well

544
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: there's more. When we're talking about a wild goose chase,

545
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: it reminds me. I don't know if you remember these facts,

546
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 1: but in Top mom Casey Anthony, when everyone was frantically

547
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: looking for her little two year old girl, Kelly, she

548
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 1: put up one story after the next, after the next.

549
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,919
Speaker 1: She's at the beach, she's here, she's there. Oh, she's

550
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: with her nanny, and the nanny will bring her home.

551
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: There was a full month of wild goose chase where

552
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: the grandmother, Cindy Anthony, trying to find Kelly. Here we're

553
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: seeing a similar wild goose chase led by the victim's son.

554
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut nineteen again, this is

555
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: the deputy district attorney what led authorities to this very

556
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 1: remote area where the body was found. Listen. Working on

557
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: that investigation, police made contact of a great deal of

558
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: people who had contacts with mister Holderson in that time

559
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 1: period between the seconds of July, which is the last

560
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: known time anyone has seen mister Holderson's parents in the

561
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: day that they were making that contact. A witness that

562
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 1: personally knows mister Halderson has seen him on many occasions,

563
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: who lives in rural Dane County, reported seeing mister Halderson's

564
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: vehicle with him in it, parked in a kind of

565
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: an odd location near a woodline on their rural property.

566
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: She did report that to police when they were speaking

567
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: to her. That reported date that mister Halderson was at

568
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 1: her property was on July fifth, so three days after

569
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 1: his parents reportedly I'd left for his cabinet. And not

570
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: only was he in a very odd location, according to

571
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: a witness, he was observed driving his vehicle in reverse

572
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:48,439
Speaker 1: with the rear hatch open in a field near some

573
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: woods repeat. The son, the grown son, the twenty three

574
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: year old son that lived at home Chandler Halderson lived

575
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: with his parents, was observed in his car driving in

576
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: reverse with the rear hatch open. I think, Joe Scott Morgan,

577
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: that we've got a pretty good idea about the transport

578
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: of the bodies or the body. Yeah. Yeah, I think

579
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 1: that we do. And the fact that you're mentioning a

580
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 1: vehicle with a rear hatch that gives us an indication

581
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: if the police are following this case up. I guarantee

582
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 1: you this his car is somewhere in a police evidence

583
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: garage and they're going over this thing with a fine

584
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: tooth comb, and they will. They can take as much

585
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 1: time as they want to right now, okay, and they

586
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: can go over everything. They're going to be looking for

587
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: blood evidence. They'll they'll probably be looking for bone evidence,

588
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 1: maybe from bone dust that was created, and not to

589
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: mention anything else that's left behind tools. There's just things

590
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,959
Speaker 1: that people forget in these frenzied moments, particularly somebody that's

591
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,919
Speaker 1: not used to being around a lot of blood and gore,

592
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 1: particularly when it involves let's say, for instance, you're on parents'

593
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: body speaking of your own parents. The mother officially is

594
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,720
Speaker 1: still a missing person. And believe it or not, this son,

595
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: this twenty three year old son, Chandler Halderson, is only

596
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: charged with lyne to police. What about the dismembered body

597
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: and the torso we just found? What about your car

598
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: driving in reverse with a hatch open out in the woods.

599
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,839
Speaker 1: And if you could look at this guy, Dotor, Jeff

600
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 1: guard Dear, you're the psychologist, you're the professor at turo

601
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 1: to look at this guy, Halo's like he should have

602
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 1: been working with me in the back of the library

603
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: when I worked in the back processing books at Mersha University.

604
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 1: This looks like like a bookworm. You know. There's an

605
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,720
Speaker 1: old saying the one who will only break one plate

606
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: is the one who will break a thousand and psychologically.

607
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: I've actually never heard that. Well, okay, and it's a

608
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: good one because it does tell us sometimes the people

609
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 1: who are the most quiet are the ones who may,

610
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: in many ways, sit on a lot of emotions, sit

611
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: on a lot of anger, and it just builds up

612
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 1: over time. Nancy, I'm interested into will they look into

613
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 1: where they're ever? And he calls to the police domestic

614
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: violence in the home. Any issues with this young man

615
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: as far as some mental health issues or outbursts towards

616
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 1: the parents. Oh, here you go. It never ends with you,

617
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: does it, Gardier. Somebody is always mentally ill. How about

618
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: just he's the devil and he killed his parents. The

619
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: mother is not missing. The mother's dead. That's what I

620
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: was saying. I don't care what they're saying. She's dead

621
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: and he killed her. Okay, if you know or even

622
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: think you know anything about Halderson's disappearance and death, please

623
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: dial six zero eight two eight four sixty nine hundred

624
00:39:55,200 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: six zero eight two eight four sixty nine hundred. Goodbye, friend,