Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason
Speaker 1: Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. I am Jason Kelly and I'm
Speaker 1: Carol Masser. Welcome to the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week.
Speaker 1: Over the next couple of hours, we're gonna bring you
Speaker 1: news of the week, insights from some of our favorite
Speaker 1: interviews throughout the week, and of course, highlights from the magazine. Jason,
Speaker 1: it was week eighteen. We definitely had some themes this week,
Speaker 1: and I gotta say virus big, big time. Some of
Speaker 1: the front runners throughout the week, weighing in on how
Speaker 1: they are doing when it comes to creating a vaccine,
Speaker 1: also what people have been listening to and buying during
Speaker 1: these weeks of living with the virus shutdown, and also
Speaker 1: figuring out diversity and inclusion, whether it's NASCAR or in
Speaker 1: the investment world. Well, and I feel like we're also
Speaker 1: starting to tease out a theme of how this is
Speaker 1: affecting everyone and how this is affecting their worldviews. And
Speaker 1: this week, one of America's richest men, anonymously we should note,
Speaker 1: opened up to none other than Max Abeles In our
Speaker 1: lovely colleague. We love talking to him. About COVID risk
Speaker 1: and luck he's going to give us an insider's view.
Speaker 1: I realized pretty quickly that there was something sort of
Speaker 1: important happening in our conversations that I wanted to try
Speaker 1: to get down on paper if I much more on
Speaker 1: that conversation later, plus my conversation at Carol with Howard
Speaker 1: University President Dr. Wayne Frederick his school's reopening plans, but
Speaker 1: also how he's dealing with these dueling crises, not just
Speaker 1: as a president but as a father. Yeah, and his
Speaker 1: personal story is really really impressive. So looking forward to
Speaker 1: that conversation. But first up, Jason, We've got to talk
Speaker 1: about the vaccine, because there are a lot of headlines
Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg about the pursuit of that by a
Speaker 1: lot of different players. We caught up with Bloomberg News
Speaker 1: senior writer Stephanie Baker. She wrote the cover story this week.
Speaker 1: She's been constantly giving us a front row seat when
Speaker 1: it comes to the virus because of her personal story.
Speaker 1: This week, she talked to the COVID vaccine front runner,
Speaker 1: who's months ahead of her competition. We talked with Stephanie
Speaker 1: and the editor of the mag magazine, Jil Weber. One
Speaker 1: of the most important people in the world right now?
Speaker 1: Who's an Oxford professor named Sarah Gilbert who has basically
Speaker 1: been toiling away on VA vaccines for coronavirus, is never
Speaker 1: getting any attention. She had, uh, you know, the effort
Speaker 1: that is she's is sort of the culminating effort right
Speaker 1: now began actually with a bola and then she went
Speaker 1: to Mers and Lo and behold, at the beginning of
Speaker 1: the year, all of a sudden a coronavirus pops up,
Speaker 1: and suddenly we have a person who had been working
Speaker 1: on a very similar project and was able to pivot
Speaker 1: and basically changed some of the approaches that they were
Speaker 1: looking at. But there she is months ahead of where
Speaker 1: we think other people are in terms of maybe being
Speaker 1: able to have a viable vaccine. And Stephanie, UM, I'm
Speaker 1: just really curious. What what is she like? What is
Speaker 1: her Gilbert like? Yeah, I mean she's really interesting. I
Speaker 1: felt a bit like, um, a pestering student asking for
Speaker 1: you know, what the next homework assignment would be. You know,
Speaker 1: she has she's extraordinarily sort of focused and efficient and
Speaker 1: conscious of keeping her eye on the prize in terms
Speaker 1: of not wasting her time. You know on things that
Speaker 1: are not relevant and that it's just it comes across
Speaker 1: and every interaction I had with her. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: she's a serious minded scientist. Um. And she knows that,
Speaker 1: you get the sense when you speak to her, she
Speaker 1: knows that this is her moment that years of research
Speaker 1: might finally pay off because of a sort of confluence
Speaker 1: of events. Um. And you know that she needs to,
Speaker 1: you know, really just keep on with it, keep on
Speaker 1: top of it, and take one challenge at a time
Speaker 1: to try to you know, sort of push this thing
Speaker 1: forward and hopefully across the line. Um. You know, she's
Speaker 1: a scientist. She's not she's not a warm and fuzzy person.
Speaker 1: She's she's you know, but I wouldn't want I would
Speaker 1: want someone to be as serious minded as she is. Um.
Speaker 1: If you're looking for someone to save us from this
Speaker 1: mass So so, Stephanie, there's there's dozens, I think in
Speaker 1: the hundreds of efforts now under underway to actually get
Speaker 1: this vaccine. What makes the Oxford approach different than some
Speaker 1: of these other ones, including you know Maderna came up
Speaker 1: as one that the market got really excited about. What
Speaker 1: what is Oxford's approach here? Yeah, I think that one
Speaker 1: of the biggest differences is the safety profile. And you know,
Speaker 1: we'll find out more about the Oxford vaccine when they
Speaker 1: report preliminary results from their Phase one trial on Monday. UM,
Speaker 1: but all along UM, Sarah Gilbert has expressed, you know,
Speaker 1: confidence in the safety profile of this vaccine that they've
Speaker 1: tested it in something like twelve different vaccines. In those
Speaker 1: vaccines haven't one approval, but they've that that platform, the
Speaker 1: technology that she's using, has been in thousands of people already,
Speaker 1: so they have a fairly confident sense of you know,
Speaker 1: what the adverse event you know, profile of this vaccine
Speaker 1: would be, and they're they're quite confident that that's not
Speaker 1: a huge hurdle. And I think, you know, some of
Speaker 1: the results that came up from Madarrena there the adverse
Speaker 1: event profile did take some analysis by surprise, UM. And
Speaker 1: if you think about we need a vaccine for not millions,
Speaker 1: but potentially billions of people. If you've got five adverse
Speaker 1: event profile and you multiply that by the number of
Speaker 1: people they're going to need to have a vaccine, that's huge, right.
Speaker 1: So we need something that is safe primarily to be
Speaker 1: able to roll it out to a large number of people.
Speaker 1: Obviously it's extraordinarily competitive, you know, I think, um, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a there's a race to get their first. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, I did look at, for instance, the last
Speaker 1: the polio vaccine that was developed by Jonas Salk, who
Speaker 1: was you know, you know, given banner headlines as you know,
Speaker 1: the one who saved the world from the stabilitating disease polio.
Speaker 1: You know, I've also often thought that whoever gets to
Speaker 1: a vaccine first in this case, even if it's not perfect,
Speaker 1: we'll be kind of the Jonas Salk of our time. Um,
Speaker 1: I think there is you know, even with the competitive
Speaker 1: nature of this, I think there is collaboration among scientists,
Speaker 1: and you see it on social media and you see
Speaker 1: it in through the research reports. And one of the
Speaker 1: things that Sarah Gilbert said to me is, you know,
Speaker 1: no one knows how strong the immune response really needs
Speaker 1: to be to achieve protection. And that's Bloomberg Goose senior
Speaker 1: writer Stephanie Baker and Business Week editor Joel Weber. Listen,
Speaker 1: this is the only story in many ways that matters
Speaker 1: the vaccine. That's right coming up next. We actually caught
Speaker 1: up with another front runner We're talking about the CEO
Speaker 1: of a novel pharmaceuticals that is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. Well,
Speaker 1: today we're bringing you some the most important, we hope
Speaker 1: informative conversations we had on our daily Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: radio show this week. It really was dominated by I
Speaker 1: think some optimism, Carol, dare I say it in week
Speaker 1: eighteen about a vaccine right from the likes of Maderna,
Speaker 1: Astra Zenica and some others. Those stocks moved because of
Speaker 1: some upbeat news about the vaccine. We caught up with
Speaker 1: Anovia Pharmaceuticals. They, Jason are among the front runners among
Speaker 1: those looking to create a vaccine for COVID nineteen. We
Speaker 1: talked specifically with the president and CEO of Anovio, Dr
Speaker 1: Joseph Kim. There's many companies like in Novo and others
Speaker 1: for blazing the trail UH just in the last six
Speaker 1: months or so, trying to make history and developing several
Speaker 1: vaccines UH that can be approved to be used both
Speaker 1: safely and effectively against this horrible pandemic. So tell us
Speaker 1: where you are and what you've learned so far, Dr Kim, Yes,
Speaker 1: absolutely so. We just reported on the preliminary data in
Speaker 1: our first clinical study involving forty healthy volunteers UH in
Speaker 1: the ages of eighteen to fifty UH, and we demonstrated
Speaker 1: very strong safety one of the safest vaccine platforms UH
Speaker 1: in this COVID nineteen race, and also demonstrating greater than
Speaker 1: of our participants having UH strong overall immune responses in
Speaker 1: a balanced way, both in UH antibody responses as well
Speaker 1: as having PI cell responses, which is another arm of
Speaker 1: the immune system that is very important for protecting against
Speaker 1: our own disease, Dr Kim. When that came out, that
Speaker 1: was a couple of weeks ago, and you're you know,
Speaker 1: investors certainly reacted to it. A Steeple analyst said. Investors
Speaker 1: are likely to focus on the pacity of information in
Speaker 1: the release, which may raise more questions than answers. When
Speaker 1: are you going to publish your peer reviewed immune response
Speaker 1: data and and where will you will you publish it
Speaker 1: at any update? And when larger trials will start here? Yeah,
Speaker 1: the second part of that question. First, So we're looking
Speaker 1: to start our phase to slash three efficacy trials upon
Speaker 1: getting regulatory concurrence this summer, so we're still on track
Speaker 1: for that. UH. In terms of the Phase one data,
Speaker 1: we are as we stayed, looking forward to publishing it
Speaker 1: in a peer reviewed UM publication, hopefully in the next
Speaker 1: few weeks as well. So when you think about the
Speaker 1: timeline here, Dr Kim, what is a reasonable timeline to
Speaker 1: get your first vaccine available for use? And I think
Speaker 1: everyone wants to know when it will be widely available. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, UH in no view as well as other
Speaker 1: companies are racing against as far at UH to bring
Speaker 1: us safe and effective vacs into the public as soon
Speaker 1: as possible. That all depends on how well the trials
Speaker 1: go in Phase two and Phase three stagies UH and
Speaker 1: demonstrating true efficacy and safety of the vaccine. UH. The
Speaker 1: FDA just released a guidance documents to the industry which
Speaker 1: provides their thoughts on what it's going to require. And
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's certainly as rapidly as we're
Speaker 1: running all of us. There's dozens of companies around the
Speaker 1: world trying to get the vaccine. It's gonna take some time,
Speaker 1: but I think there's been a lot of incremental successes
Speaker 1: in phase one and and many companies going into Phase two,
Speaker 1: including our plans at Inovo is a twenty wide release
Speaker 1: too much to hope for. Well, I think that's a
Speaker 1: goal and that certainly is an aspiration that many of
Speaker 1: us in the field have. It really depends and and
Speaker 1: and ironically it also depends on how bad infection is
Speaker 1: around us. Uh. You know, that would put a pressure
Speaker 1: or balance to the benefits and the cost of having
Speaker 1: a vaccines set of vaccines approved earlier. Conditionally. I mean,
Speaker 1: these are the things that the FDA and their policymakers
Speaker 1: will have to to decide on. What we focused on
Speaker 1: a Innovo and I'm assuming other companies as well, is
Speaker 1: to execute the next steps in the development, so next trials,
Speaker 1: next testing, so that we will be in a proper
Speaker 1: position to get the vaccines approved, uh, through this gauntlet.
Speaker 1: You know, it typically takes up to ten years or
Speaker 1: longer to get a vaccine approved. And everyone started or
Speaker 1: you know, from from day one at the same place
Speaker 1: in January, so you know, we're we're moving in a
Speaker 1: historical pace, but it's never fast enough because there are
Speaker 1: people dying every day. You said, though, how bad the
Speaker 1: infection is around US will determine potentially, I guess how
Speaker 1: regulators how quickly they want to move things along. If
Speaker 1: we don't see a second surge or if cases seem
Speaker 1: to die down, does this whole movement of finding a
Speaker 1: vaccine slowed down as well globally? Well, that's that's always
Speaker 1: a potential and certainly that would be great for the society.
Speaker 1: Um But as we're in the middle of the first
Speaker 1: wave and there's many experts predicting the second wave, all
Speaker 1: we can do as vaccine developers focused on our objective,
Speaker 1: which is to test properly the safety and advocacy of
Speaker 1: the vaccine and be ready when we're called upon. Some
Speaker 1: of your peers have received larger government funding or significance
Speaker 1: amount of funding. What about for you, guys, do you
Speaker 1: see getting any additional funds from the government. Well, I
Speaker 1: think absolutely. I think Udobio has already received extensive external
Speaker 1: funding from US Department of Defense just recently a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks ago, as well as from the Bill and
Speaker 1: Melinda Gates Foundation and SEPPI in the past. That's Novio
Speaker 1: Pharmaceuticals President CEO Dr Joseph Kim. That stock has been
Speaker 1: on a tear like so many biotech and farm companies
Speaker 1: this year, there are a lot of companies Jason, out
Speaker 1: there looking for a cure for COVID nineteens, specifically a vaccine.
Speaker 1: What I loved about this conversation is this was one
Speaker 1: of those that I got off air. I came home,
Speaker 1: had dinner, and I said, here's what I learned about
Speaker 1: the vaccine from the CEO. And that was very purposeful,
Speaker 1: I think on our part to essentially say, all right,
Speaker 1: all right, let's get down to brass tacks. How many
Speaker 1: shots are we talking about, When is this going to
Speaker 1: be out? What do we need to be thinking about,
Speaker 1: because ultimately that's what matters. I mean, I'm going to
Speaker 1: leave the science to the scientists. What I want to
Speaker 1: know is how is this going to affect candidly me,
Speaker 1: my family, my community, and the world in terms of
Speaker 1: getting back to whatever the next normal is going to be? Well?
Speaker 1: And what's interesting, Jason, as the traditional form in biotech
Speaker 1: world hunt for a virus vaccine, others are seeking at
Speaker 1: more non traditional methods to help them get through this
Speaker 1: stressful time. Simply put, demand for cannabis, folks, it is up.
Speaker 1: And we checked in with one of the largest players
Speaker 1: in the United States, the co founder of Purely Boris
Speaker 1: Jordan's that's coming up next. I can't wait for that.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol
Speaker 1: Masser and Jason Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. We're bring some
Speaker 1: of the most important and informative conversations we had throughout
Speaker 1: the week on our daily radio show. Reminder to everybody,
Speaker 1: we know the news once again happening fast and furiously,
Speaker 1: and these interviews happening in real time well and as
Speaker 1: the pandemic continues. Carol Cannabis is one of the surprise
Speaker 1: winners here. We were delighted to catch up with Cure
Speaker 1: Leafs executive chairman and co founder, Boris Jordan's quick reminder.
Speaker 1: He was part of the Bloomberg fifty. We actually sat
Speaker 1: down with him. Remember that when we used to physically
Speaker 1: do interviews with people in the same place. Well, we
Speaker 1: did that at a big Bloomberg fifty event in New
Speaker 1: York City back in December. A lot has changed and
Speaker 1: actually for the better. With care Leaf, we've seen a
Speaker 1: substantial increase in foot traffic UM. We've also seen substantial
Speaker 1: increases in in UM basket sizes. So basket sizes and
Speaker 1: some of our states almost doubled uh in size from
Speaker 1: what they used to be. Uh. And foot traffic is
Speaker 1: up tremendously. UM. I would say that, UM being growth,
Speaker 1: That's what I wanted to know. You know, we love numbers.
Speaker 1: So the foot traffic and the basket uh increases. Can
Speaker 1: you just say that again? Yeah, yeah, foot traffic and
Speaker 1: basket increases together with revenue all about quarter over quarder. Wow.
Speaker 1: And so obviously a bit unanticipated as everything was about
Speaker 1: this pandemic. I mean, tell us, what's what's driving that.
Speaker 1: So one of the things that we've noticed this is
Speaker 1: that we're seeing a new customer come into the stores
Speaker 1: now UM, an older customer uh dealing with UM things
Speaker 1: like uh you know, stress anxiety during COVID UH wanting
Speaker 1: to get off of uh prescribed drugs from you know,
Speaker 1: from uh drug companies and moving on to more natural products.
Speaker 1: And so we've seen a huge surge, particularly in the
Speaker 1: sleep aid category UH you know, lozengers, tinctures, um, uh, dummies,
Speaker 1: that kind of thing helping particularly the older folks deal
Speaker 1: with the COVID stress and anxiety. And that's been a
Speaker 1: really new customer base. I'm not kidding when I tell
Speaker 1: you that we've seen customers over eighty years of age
Speaker 1: coming into our store buying these products. And that's a
Speaker 1: new thing for you guys. Yes, I I yeah. Generally
Speaker 1: the medical sides that we as you know, we have
Speaker 1: two different lines. We have a pure Leaf line, which
Speaker 1: is a wellness line, and selected adult use line. Generally,
Speaker 1: the Cure Leaf line does see an older so sort
Speaker 1: of an average of fifty two years of age customer,
Speaker 1: but we've seen a much older customer coming into the stores.
Speaker 1: We've seen people in their late sixties, seventies, and I said,
Speaker 1: even eighties coming into the stores and buying sleep aids
Speaker 1: as a whole. And I think sleep is going to
Speaker 1: be a major major category on the wellness side of cannabis.
Speaker 1: I think you're exactly right. I mean we're seeing that
Speaker 1: more and more. I mean, Ariana Huffington certainly was onto
Speaker 1: something when she started talking about that a few years ago.
Speaker 1: So Borth, what did you have to do in your
Speaker 1: retail locations, because as foot traffic increases, you know, that
Speaker 1: used to be just like hey, great, there are more people.
Speaker 1: But now in the age of COVID, in the age
Speaker 1: of social distancing, What did you have to do and
Speaker 1: and and how much did you have to do to
Speaker 1: change out your stories. We were very lucky that the
Speaker 1: governors really went out and and and liberalize some of
Speaker 1: the rules. So one of the things we had to
Speaker 1: incorporate is online ordering. So we incorporate online ordering and
Speaker 1: all of the states. We did curbside pickup in all
Speaker 1: of the states, so people really would order online. They
Speaker 1: pay well. Now have five of our stations, so using
Speaker 1: debit cards, which is a new product for cannabis. So
Speaker 1: it used to be all cash, and we're seeing more
Speaker 1: and more banks accepting debit cards and payment processors and
Speaker 1: so debit cards, and that's one of the reasons we're
Speaker 1: seeing the increase in basket size because in the past,
Speaker 1: if you came to the store with a hundred dollars
Speaker 1: in your pocket, you can only buy a hundred dollars
Speaker 1: a product. Now you're coming in um with a debit card.
Speaker 1: You've got a bigger balance on the debit cards than
Speaker 1: a hundred dollars, you can actually buy more products. So
Speaker 1: so the debit cards actually helped a lot. So it
Speaker 1: was really curbside pickup. It was it was online ordering,
Speaker 1: Um it was. It was you know, social distancing in
Speaker 1: the store. So we had to add we had to
Speaker 1: do all the things, you know, add the class and
Speaker 1: all the stores. We had to control traffic, all these things,
Speaker 1: because traffic was extensive. I mean, our New Jersey store
Speaker 1: processes over a thousand customers a day. So boris is
Speaker 1: it fair to say that from a regulatory perspective, especially
Speaker 1: when it comes to payments and things like that? Were
Speaker 1: there things that were accelerated owing to the pandemic and
Speaker 1: some of the rules that had to come into place
Speaker 1: maybe thinks you had been looking for before that maybe
Speaker 1: happened a little more quickly. Yes, again, it's happened at
Speaker 1: the state level. The federal level hasn't done anything yet
Speaker 1: to to help the industry, but the states did because
Speaker 1: they were concerned about the well being that I mean,
Speaker 1: cannabis was made essential um uh service and therefore they
Speaker 1: were con learned about the well being of both the
Speaker 1: people working in the stores and the company as well
Speaker 1: as the patients. And so the states liberalize these rules,
Speaker 1: working together with the cannabis companies in their respective states
Speaker 1: and finding ways to deliver these products in a safer way,
Speaker 1: and that's what we're able to do. And that's currently
Speaker 1: the executive chairman co founder Boris Jordan's joining us. Obviously,
Speaker 1: they have been able to meet what is by all
Speaker 1: accounts huge demand. They're also taking advantage of some weakness
Speaker 1: in the market, Carol, the broader market, some consolidation going
Speaker 1: on when it comes to cannabis. Yeah, and we also
Speaker 1: talked to him about the regulatory Frontier says that he
Speaker 1: expects of the US having access to recreational cannabis by
Speaker 1: next year. That to put pressure on Congress to legalize
Speaker 1: and clarify the industry. So good to get him to
Speaker 1: weigh in on that. Okay, so demand for cannabis is up.
Speaker 1: So two is demand for listening to podcasts coming up.
Speaker 1: We get more on that from the chief operating officer
Speaker 1: at Wandering. Of course, a whole separate segment is what
Speaker 1: happens when you put the two together. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason
Speaker 1: Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. Well, today we'll bring you some
Speaker 1: of the most important, we hope informative conversations we had
Speaker 1: Carol and I did on our Bloomberg Business Week Daily
Speaker 1: radio show. I love podcast, Carol, I know you do.
Speaker 1: You're always suggesting you should be listening to this, you
Speaker 1: should be listening to that one. What's interesting is the
Speaker 1: podcast producer Jason Wondering. They launched its app last month.
Speaker 1: They are tapping specifically into increased demand for podcasts that
Speaker 1: is happening right now. Jen Sargent is the chief operating
Speaker 1: officer at Wondering. She's also working on expanding the podcasters
Speaker 1: audience and developing TV, book and film projects from its
Speaker 1: library of podcast programs. She talked with us about all
Speaker 1: of that. What we've seen during the pandemic is actually
Speaker 1: people really leaning in so listening to podcast and I
Speaker 1: think as we've all been social distancing and changing our
Speaker 1: habits and spending more time at home, uh, umers, I
Speaker 1: found all these different ways to be listening to podcast,
Speaker 1: whether it's cooking or gardening, or walking the dog, um
Speaker 1: or just cleaning around the house. Podcasts are a great
Speaker 1: piece of kind of mediate to take with you on
Speaker 1: the go and and really be able to kind of
Speaker 1: multitask something else around your house. And as a result, UM,
Speaker 1: we we've really seen um some some great list and
Speaker 1: listening UM recently. And we've also seen shifts in behavior
Speaker 1: where you know, prior to the pandemic, it was all
Speaker 1: about commuting and your time at the gym and and
Speaker 1: those were two of the big use cases for for podcasts.
Speaker 1: But now we see listening throughout the day and on
Speaker 1: the weekends and and just um, you know, we can
Speaker 1: see consumers really um listening in a different way. And
Speaker 1: I have a lot of theories of of why that's
Speaker 1: happening right now, but UM, it's been a really positive
Speaker 1: time for podcasts. I'll also say that, you know, just
Speaker 1: on the production side of things, UM, we've been able
Speaker 1: to keep doucing podcasts during the pandemic. And I think
Speaker 1: you know, UM, I mean, I don't know about YouTube,
Speaker 1: but I've I've kind of caught up on my Netflix
Speaker 1: and my Hulu and and and with TV production on
Speaker 1: hold right now, UM, it's the source of new content.
Speaker 1: So uh for one gree but but all the podcasting
Speaker 1: UM publishers out there, most of us have been able
Speaker 1: to adapt and to really um keep keep things moving
Speaker 1: with new content. We've seen interest from talent who would
Speaker 1: otherwise be busy with TV production getting involved in podcasts.
Speaker 1: So for the whole ecosystem, I think we've we've seen
Speaker 1: a great list. That's so funny that you said that,
Speaker 1: because just before Jess was like, you gotta watch this
Speaker 1: because and I said, you know, I've been running out
Speaker 1: of things to watch. What's interesting is I'm curious you
Speaker 1: said that kind of the trends are changing changing. It's
Speaker 1: not just people commuting obviously anymore, but they're listening at
Speaker 1: all different times. What are people listening to? Jen? Yeah, so, UM, well,
Speaker 1: especially when the stay at home where orders first happen,
Speaker 1: and we saw a lot of people UM listening to news, UM,
Speaker 1: listening to UM, to a current information UM. But then
Speaker 1: we also saw that balanced with UM comedy and entertainment
Speaker 1: and things that would give people kind of a break
Speaker 1: in an escape UM, which is not surprising. UM. Now
Speaker 1: we're seeing that that pretty much all categories are you know,
Speaker 1: receiving a lot of listenerships at this point, but but
Speaker 1: definitely at the start of the pandemic, it was news,
Speaker 1: entertainment and and personal growth is the other diner categories
Speaker 1: self help, personal growth. So you know, it's interesting, Jen Um,
Speaker 1: I was thinking about you guys in terms of the
Speaker 1: type of content you create. And I'm almost thinking to
Speaker 1: some extent it feels like a little bit like a
Speaker 1: Disney approach where content can ultimately have multiple revenue streams, online,
Speaker 1: podcast streaming, etcetera. And I do wonder how you approach it.
Speaker 1: How do you look at when you're you know, thinking
Speaker 1: about either acquiring or producing some content, Are you thinking about, Okay,
Speaker 1: how can we spread this out as much as possible? Yes,
Speaker 1: and that has absolutely been evolving as as we've grown UM.
Speaker 1: But you know, we're known for our immersive, character driven storytelling.
Speaker 1: We really try to put you the listener, in the
Speaker 1: middle of the story and and get you completely you know,
Speaker 1: enveloped in it. UM. And we we think about it
Speaker 1: now as UM more than just a podcast. We really
Speaker 1: think about developing a story that then can take on
Speaker 1: a life of its own. UM. I mean, our our
Speaker 1: broader goal is really to be the first place consumers
Speaker 1: think of when they think of high quality, immersive storytelling.
Speaker 1: And today that happens to be with podcasts. But we
Speaker 1: know in the future is very likely that a consumer
Speaker 1: could encounter us first as a TV show or a
Speaker 1: book UM, and then make their way back to the
Speaker 1: podcast UM. And so Um. You know, as we think
Speaker 1: about different revenue streams, I mean, advertising is certainly our
Speaker 1: bread and butter and was one of the earliest um,
Speaker 1: you know, revenue streams to emerge for us and everyone
Speaker 1: else in podcasting. UM. But as we started to create
Speaker 1: hits like The Shrink next Door, like Dr Death, UM,
Speaker 1: we saw this opportunity to develop the I P into
Speaker 1: television shows. And at this point, sixteen of our projects
Speaker 1: are in various stages of TV development. Uh. We have
Speaker 1: one of our projects um that is on its way
Speaker 1: to becoming a book. UM. And and this licensing side
Speaker 1: of it is is not just real but to your
Speaker 1: Disney analogy, I mean I I think we absolutely see
Speaker 1: it expanding that way. So when we green light stories
Speaker 1: now we think could this be a TV show? Could?
Speaker 1: I mean we certainly didn't. Um. You know, when we
Speaker 1: were working with joannas Sarah um First Rank next Door,
Speaker 1: we weren't thinking, oh, this would be so perfect for
Speaker 1: Paul Rudd and Harold but you're doing it. But but
Speaker 1: after the fact, yeah, it totally makes sense. It makes
Speaker 1: a lot of sense when you think if you've listened
Speaker 1: to The Street Next Story and you're like, yep, that
Speaker 1: absolutely checks out. I can see that on the screen. So,
Speaker 1: so talk to us about the subscription model, because I
Speaker 1: feel like that's something that a lot of podcast publishers
Speaker 1: have been wrestling with. And you know, we've seen the
Speaker 1: Spotify model, We've seen Luminary, we've seen others sort of
Speaker 1: go for this Stitcher, I believe, as well as a
Speaker 1: premium product. Tell us about the conversations to sort of
Speaker 1: get one dree to that point and how you think
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, I mean, part of our motivation UM
Speaker 1: was really that our listeners were asking for an app.
Speaker 1: They were asking for a better way, an easier way
Speaker 1: to access wondering shows and content, to be able to
Speaker 1: binge content, especially mini series, to be able to listen
Speaker 1: to add free and UM particular to our style of storytelling,
Speaker 1: we do a lot of serialized mini series and serialized
Speaker 1: always on shows and UM for many of our shows
Speaker 1: like a Business Wars or or Tides of History, UM, etcetera,
Speaker 1: that were we have dozens of seasons at this point,
Speaker 1: and your average podcast app doesn't allow you to navigate
Speaker 1: elegantly between seasons, and so even just tracking down the
Speaker 1: season of Business Wars that you want to listen to
Speaker 1: is it is hard in a general market app, and
Speaker 1: when we looked around at the market, we felt like
Speaker 1: that's that's what that's what was out there. I mean, Stitcher, Luminary, Apple,
Speaker 1: They're all great apps, but their general market one size
Speaker 1: fits all apps, and we really wanted to create a
Speaker 1: curated experience. We wanted it to be on brand, we
Speaker 1: wanted it to feel immersive and premium like our our
Speaker 1: shows do, and we really just wanted to super serve
Speaker 1: that that wondering listener. UM. That was a big part
Speaker 1: of it. UM. The other piece of it, which is
Speaker 1: you know, was a challenge for us, and I think
Speaker 1: it's a challenge for for most publishers out there. Is
Speaker 1: that we we but but by by distributing our content
Speaker 1: through these third parties, we missed that direct connection with
Speaker 1: the listener and we don't get data back that really
Speaker 1: helps us. And without the data, we're kind of flying
Speaker 1: blind when we're when we're making the next piece of
Speaker 1: content or we're trying to mark at it. So having
Speaker 1: some first party data that UM that we can use
Speaker 1: to inform our marketing and content decisions is really game changing. UM.
Speaker 1: So that was another part of it for us. UM.
Speaker 1: As we thought about creating creating an app like this,
Speaker 1: is it only going to be and I don't mean only,
Speaker 1: but I mean will it be exclusively wondering content or
Speaker 1: will you open it up to others that kind of
Speaker 1: fit within the wondering world. Yeah, so it will be
Speaker 1: both wondering content and Wondering partner content. But we're not
Speaker 1: an aggregator. We're not trying to be the Netflix of podcasts,
Speaker 1: and it won't be everything under the sun. It will
Speaker 1: only be podcasts where we have a partnership, whether we've
Speaker 1: partnered with Bloomberg or or someone like UM like uh,
Speaker 1: you know, all things Comedy or the Athletic whoever we're
Speaker 1: partnering with that might be within the app, and then
Speaker 1: all of our wondering originals. And we felt like now
Speaker 1: was the time to do this because we had the
Speaker 1: breast and depth of content. We have a beloved catalog,
Speaker 1: we have these big hits UM we had enough UM
Speaker 1: brand equity and listeners to tap into UM to be
Speaker 1: able to launch this type of app. Now, Jen only
Speaker 1: about a minute or so ago. What was something that
Speaker 1: you thought, you know, this may be okay and then
Speaker 1: it just caught fire? Was that was there a specific
Speaker 1: either type of content or a specific piece of content
Speaker 1: that really surprised you on the upside um. You know,
Speaker 1: one that I was recently surprised about was Blood Ties.
Speaker 1: So we had Blood Ties as an audio drama that
Speaker 1: we launched right before the holidays UM this past year.
Speaker 1: And we had dabbled in audio drama when Ware we
Speaker 1: first launched, and for whatever reason, the market wasn't mature enough.
Speaker 1: Maybe there wasn't enough demand. But you know, they did okay,
Speaker 1: but we weren't really able to get a blockbuster hit
Speaker 1: out of out of the fiction side of things, and
Speaker 1: Blood Ties was a game changer. It completely um surpassed
Speaker 1: our expectations. That's wonder ee Chief Operating Officer Jen Sergeant Jason.
Speaker 1: I thought it was very interesting. You know, they launched
Speaker 1: their app in June and a lot of it is
Speaker 1: about having access to their own data. That's very valuable,
Speaker 1: right in terms of building a business and really understanding
Speaker 1: your customer well. And I will say quick plug as
Speaker 1: it relates to wondering and Bloomberg. Our friend Jones Sarah
Speaker 1: a new episode of The Shrink Next Stor It was
Speaker 1: out this week. I listened to it it's bananas. As
Speaker 1: the whole series has been, It's going to be a movie,
Speaker 1: So check that out. Always like to give a plug
Speaker 1: to the shrink next door. Well, that wraps up the
Speaker 1: first hour the weekend edition of Bloomberg Pisiness Week from
Speaker 1: Bloemberg Radio. I'm Jason Kelly and I'm Carol mass Or.
Speaker 1: Plenty coming up in our next hour, including the billionaire
Speaker 1: stuck at home with his family like the rest of us,
Speaker 1: working from home, holding meetings in the virtual world, playing
Speaker 1: games like risk with his family, His ongoing conversation with
Speaker 1: our own Max Abelson. Yeah, mid all that he's having
Speaker 1: this series of phone calls with Max Abelson and this
Speaker 1: actually unburdening himself and giving a window into how he's
Speaker 1: experiencing this that maybe you wouldn't see anywhere else. Plus
Speaker 1: our conversations about diversity continue. We check in with the
Speaker 1: owner of Richard Petty Motorsports, Andrew Murstein. He talks about NASCAR,
Speaker 1: that has been a flashpoint for a lot of important conversations. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he says, now Bubba Wallace is the new face of
Speaker 1: the sport. This is Bloomberg, This is Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. Hello,
Speaker 1: I'm Carol Messer and I'm Jason Kelly. Plenty ahead of
Speaker 1: you in this hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week. One of our go to voices amid this pandemic,
Speaker 1: sort of a gut check in many ways. We love
Speaker 1: turning to Dr Iman Abu zaid her thoughts on diversity
Speaker 1: in healthcare but also in investing. Carol right, Jason, She's
Speaker 1: got the data and it reminds us why we need
Speaker 1: to have a diverse approach when it comes to investing. Plus,
Speaker 1: we catch up with Medallion CEO Andrew Murstein, speaking of
Speaker 1: diversity and inclusion. We talked about that as it pertains
Speaker 1: to NASCAR. That's right. He's an owner of Richard Petty
Speaker 1: Motor Sports, which is the team that Bubba Wallace of
Speaker 1: course drives for. He has been at the center of
Speaker 1: a lot of important conversations in sports. But first, we've
Speaker 1: been talking about this story all week. I have to
Speaker 1: say people were calling me and texting me trying to
Speaker 1: get to the bottom of this, this anonymous billionaire, great story.
Speaker 1: Max Abelson conducted a series of conversations throughout the early
Speaker 1: stages of the pandemic, and WHOA, I was just talking
Speaker 1: to this guy. It is really the Waltree culture Caroline
Speaker 1: gave my boss and I think about it is really
Speaker 1: writing about money and power itself. So it was sort
Speaker 1: of natural when the pandemic began that on that very
Speaker 1: first day that the World Health Organization said, Okay, this
Speaker 1: is a pandemic, I called up a Waltree billionaire and
Speaker 1: we spoke, and you know, the real organic truth is
Speaker 1: that I end up calling him again a few days later,
Speaker 1: and then a few days after that, and a few
Speaker 1: days after that, and I realized pretty quickly that there
Speaker 1: was something sort of important happening in our conversations that
Speaker 1: I wanted to try to get down on paper if
Speaker 1: I could. And what was different, because it does feel like,
Speaker 1: based on your conversations, that there was a different tone
Speaker 1: to maybe some of what you guys were talking about.
Speaker 1: Which is not to say that it's not always real
Speaker 1: when folks are talking to you, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: There's a there's a certain um, almost rawness to this
Speaker 1: Max and a certain authenticity or or almost vulnerability that
Speaker 1: comes through in some of this. I'm so old to
Speaker 1: hear you see that. I mean, it's really um, I
Speaker 1: feel so grateful to have the response to the story
Speaker 1: from from everyone who enjoyed it, but especially for you too.
Speaker 1: I mean, you too are such careful and powerful leaders
Speaker 1: of my journalism. It's I was satisfying to be reporting
Speaker 1: that doesn't sort of just get lost. And you two
Speaker 1: seem to really read my jories carefully in a way
Speaker 1: that's so satisfying as a journalist. And I know what
Speaker 1: you mean about that vulnerability, And I'll talk about two
Speaker 1: different creative vulnerability. On the one hand, um, you know,
Speaker 1: I tried to be some version of my awfumic self,
Speaker 1: you know when as journalists, Um, and this is so
Speaker 1: true for video journalists as well. I think that sometimes
Speaker 1: it's sort of easy to drift away from the real
Speaker 1: people we are, and you sort of, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: you're tired, or you're angry, or you're a little bored,
Speaker 1: and you sort of just you know, you just sort
Speaker 1: of ask the questions and and you know, that's sometimes
Speaker 1: that mode is totally fine. But in this case, as
Speaker 1: YouTube often are me, I really sort of was my
Speaker 1: true amongst own selves. And sometimes he would say things
Speaker 1: I'd be like, do you really want to say that,
Speaker 1: you know, or pushed back and say, jeez, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe people are angry Um for a reason that's totally
Speaker 1: different than what you're saying, and that I think UM
Speaker 1: make him more vulnerable. And now I'd like to give
Speaker 1: genuine credit to him. I mean, this is a awesome
Speaker 1: and interesting person who made himself vulnerable and at least,
Speaker 1: you know, people might not like what he has to say,
Speaker 1: but at least she said it, and at least he
Speaker 1: was true to himself. And I feel a sort of
Speaker 1: a month kind of gratitude for that. You know, Max,
Speaker 1: you know this so well we all do. You write
Speaker 1: about this a lot about the inequalities that are in
Speaker 1: our world, and we talk a lot about the wealth gap,
Speaker 1: and I do wonder your conversations did you feel like
Speaker 1: helped explained it or gave you a sense of hope
Speaker 1: that there are those who are wealthy, like the billionaire
Speaker 1: you talked to, that kind of understand that this gap
Speaker 1: is happening, and it's it's been laid bare because of
Speaker 1: the virus. It's been laid bare once again because of
Speaker 1: what happened to George Floyd. You know, did it give
Speaker 1: you some hope that he and some of his peers
Speaker 1: understand this is not good and they care about making
Speaker 1: it better. Look, I mean, I think one thing that's
Speaker 1: only here to point he said, you know, one billionaire,
Speaker 1: one world, she's dolling there cannot represent all wall she's billionaires.
Speaker 1: And certainly you know one one wall she's billion can't
Speaker 1: represent all of rich people. But you know, I will
Speaker 1: give you my honors answer to that question, Harold, which
Speaker 1: is that I felt that on one end, really recognize
Speaker 1: because it's undeniable, how much pain and suffering there is
Speaker 1: the world in general, and how much agne in the summer,
Speaker 1: when you know tens of millions of Americans have lost
Speaker 1: their jobs, when tik two thousands of people are dying,
Speaker 1: And oh, I was full of uncertainty and fear for
Speaker 1: for for basically everyone else. But I hope what the
Speaker 1: story captures is that there was something he wasn't able
Speaker 1: to do, And what he wasn't able to do was
Speaker 1: um really imagined world that would be structurally different. He
Speaker 1: really did not want to glame systemic problems. I mean,
Speaker 1: he didn't want to talk about sort of how those
Speaker 1: systems could be replaced. He's much more interested in incremental change,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that that's a revealing um that's
Speaker 1: revealing in this moment when we are really at a
Speaker 1: devisive moment between those who want um to really abolish
Speaker 1: some systems that have left many behind and those who
Speaker 1: really want to inform them. I think it's a genuinely
Speaker 1: important and stark difference. I really feel though, if I
Speaker 1: learned something from the story, it's that the gap that
Speaker 1: we've seen um between the very richest people and the
Speaker 1: rest of us fat gas is getting bigger, and that's
Speaker 1: when we're doing to Finance reporter Max Ebilson. I love
Speaker 1: just the enthusiasm and the earnestness with which he approaches everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's one of those stories you have to grab a
Speaker 1: cup of coffee or a cup of tea settle in,
Speaker 1: because the back and forth between Max and this individual,
Speaker 1: it really just gives us another window in to how
Speaker 1: different people are dealing with the virus and really the
Speaker 1: last eighteen weeks of our lives. I have to say
Speaker 1: one of my favorite Carol Masser is use of the
Speaker 1: word individual because it's when you don't know someone's name,
Speaker 1: and in this case it's totally appropriate because We don't
Speaker 1: know who this guy is exactly. Only Max knows. All right,
Speaker 1: you're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Coming up, as schools
Speaker 1: continue discussing reopening plans, we're going to hear from Howard
Speaker 1: University President Dr Wayne Frederick. I really enjoyed this one.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol
Speaker 1: Masser and Jason Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. We're bringing some
Speaker 1: of the most important and informt of conversations we had
Speaker 1: throughout the week. Another busy week week seventeen week eateeency.
Speaker 1: How to keep track of it working from home? But
Speaker 1: those interviews on our daily radio show throughout this week
Speaker 1: and this one I was sorry that I missed at Jason, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was too, only because it was wide ranging. I
Speaker 1: expected a lot of the Howard University president and he
Speaker 1: really delivered. Dr Wayne Frederick. He has been running the
Speaker 1: university for a number of years. He's a medical doctor,
Speaker 1: and so he speaks about this in really robust and
Speaker 1: holistic terms, not just the virus, but also these dueling
Speaker 1: crises that we're facing as a country. Check it out.
Speaker 1: We're thinking that we will be identify our campus by
Speaker 1: and by that I mean we have ten thousand students.
Speaker 1: We don't anticipate having that many, certainly not more than
Speaker 1: four thousand students. We have students in UH schools and
Speaker 1: colleges UH that that need the faith and faith interactions
Speaker 1: such as medicine, dentistry, UM, et cetera. So so we
Speaker 1: we have to bring students back for that in students
Speaker 1: with clinical practical comes that will be there with We
Speaker 1: are looking at dorm assignments as well to see if
Speaker 1: we can go down to single rooms as well. We're
Speaker 1: going to have a hybrid um some online. We also
Speaker 1: are going to have UM the Faith to Faith classes
Speaker 1: live streamed as well, so students can participate. We want
Speaker 1: to be also cognisance of the fact that we have
Speaker 1: students from about seventy one countries and forty six states,
Speaker 1: so at the time zones challenge and we have to
Speaker 1: make sure that we can make accommodations there, so you know,
Speaker 1: a lot lots of precautions, UM, lots of ppe and
Speaker 1: and making sure that we have the right barriers and
Speaker 1: social distancing in the classroom right And you know, Dr Frederick,
Speaker 1: it's interesting, I feel like we all, especially in the
Speaker 1: media talk a lot about students, and maybe it's because
Speaker 1: you know, I have almost college age teenagers, so we
Speaker 1: talk a lot about it from the students perspective. Talk
Speaker 1: to me about your faculty and the conversations you're having
Speaker 1: with them individually and as a group, and their concerns
Speaker 1: about coming back. Yeah, well, academic deans have been engaging them. Um,
Speaker 1: the faculty have been fantastic. You know, they have really
Speaker 1: going about the business of standing up the online and
Speaker 1: short san uh and and that has been really fantastic
Speaker 1: to watch. The other thing that they have been um
Speaker 1: doing that I think is very very helpful is being
Speaker 1: thoughtful about the classes that don't naturally fit um you
Speaker 1: know four online but instance, like a physics lab. We
Speaker 1: because African Americans are five times more likely to drown
Speaker 1: as an example, we have a requirement to take a
Speaker 1: swimming class and how would actually to graduate, So trying
Speaker 1: to think creatively of how we do that. At the
Speaker 1: same time, we have a significant number of factly who's
Speaker 1: sixty five and over and faculty who have cool mobilities
Speaker 1: we hire. We employed more African American faculty than any
Speaker 1: other single institution higher institution America, and so that also
Speaker 1: poses a challenge because we recognize that we have an
Speaker 1: employee base that there's more at risk for contracting this
Speaker 1: UM virus and also having a bad outcome. So we
Speaker 1: are being very thoughtful about managing that and they were
Speaker 1: making sure that we understand their consumes as well. So
Speaker 1: talk to me about testing, because I know that you're
Speaker 1: offering testing at one of your locations for your faculty.
Speaker 1: Tell me about how that extends, how it works and
Speaker 1: and the role that you're playing in the broader community. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good question. You know. We we UM have
Speaker 1: a facility that we have stood up in conjunction with
Speaker 1: a partner out in h Wards seven, so it considers
Speaker 1: the residents of Wards seven and eight that African American UM.
Speaker 1: We also at a hospital. When we look at the
Speaker 1: patients that we've been seeing, the vast majority came from
Speaker 1: these wards. So looking at and putting those together, we
Speaker 1: decided that we really needed to get information out there
Speaker 1: and to get UM testing UM out there as well,
Speaker 1: and so Bank of America gave us a grant of
Speaker 1: one million dollar grant to aldow us to stand up
Speaker 1: a testing site there and it has been oversubscribed very
Speaker 1: early on it we did not need a doctor's note
Speaker 1: or anything like that. We have a lot of front
Speaker 1: line workers who lived there, and therefore we felt that
Speaker 1: their exposure was significant and that we wanted to really
Speaker 1: uh system. So it has been really important for us
Speaker 1: to do that. At the same time, I also want
Speaker 1: to remind everyone that the elective clinical care that we
Speaker 1: were providing there was also suspended, and therefore that gave
Speaker 1: us an opportunity as a group to really put those
Speaker 1: healthcare workers to work, and they really wanted to see
Speaker 1: their community. So I also want to thank our staff
Speaker 1: who wild um we did not have regular clinical activity,
Speaker 1: really volunteered and stepped in and stepped up to do this.
Speaker 1: And I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you what
Speaker 1: is it like in Washington right now with this virus?
Speaker 1: Because I feel like we're dealing with all these hot
Speaker 1: spots around the country. What are you seeing in your community?
Speaker 1: The man in Washington d C. I think has done
Speaker 1: a fantastic job, and so what we're seeing is continued decline.
Speaker 1: I think just recently we may have had an uptick
Speaker 1: on one day of cases, which I'm hoping is that
Speaker 1: strictly due to testing. But she's been really good. She's
Speaker 1: been open about educating everyone about um, ensuring that they're
Speaker 1: wearing mask in public, um, et cetera. You know, she's
Speaker 1: been I think she's she's run a very very thoughtful
Speaker 1: process that was very engaging as well. I stilled on
Speaker 1: her reopening committee and that a chance to seek close
Speaker 1: up the world that was was put into that and
Speaker 1: the posts from this. So all in all that, you know,
Speaker 1: I think we've been been in the d theory. DC
Speaker 1: is interesting because obviously you have Virginia. So we really
Speaker 1: looked at the d MP and the governors of board
Speaker 1: mel and Virginia wild Um, totally different styles and republic
Speaker 1: one republic on one democrat. Uh. You know, I think
Speaker 1: again when we put aside of politics and we you know,
Speaker 1: put the health and safety food, they both have demonstrated
Speaker 1: as well. I think very good. That's Howard University President Dr.
Speaker 1: Wayne Frederick, the seventeenth president of Howard. His personal story.
Speaker 1: I ended up reading a lot about him, Jason, just
Speaker 1: because I knew you were talking to him. I mean,
Speaker 1: just so impressive what he did on a personal level
Speaker 1: and professional level. Yeah, and this was one of these
Speaker 1: interviews that really stuck with me, and I highly recommend
Speaker 1: you listen to the whole thing on our podcast feed
Speaker 1: because it was, as I said, wide ranging, but also,
Speaker 1: as you alluded to, very personal. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: something that he is dealing with as a leader, obviously
Speaker 1: the president of the university, as a community leader working
Speaker 1: with the mayor of Washington, d C. But also as
Speaker 1: a father, and I think that's important to remember, right,
Speaker 1: And you talked a lot about diversity and inclusion, as
Speaker 1: we did with our next guest, a voice we've reached
Speaker 1: out to before because of her firsthand experience with the virus,
Speaker 1: but also as someone of color and as a woman,
Speaker 1: her path to owning her own business. We get into that.
Speaker 1: That's right, Incredible Health CEO Dr Iman Abuse. She is
Speaker 1: coming up now. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business
Speaker 1: Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. Well,
Speaker 1: today we're bringing you some of the most important and
Speaker 1: informative conversations we had on our daily Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: radio show, Diversity and Inclusion. Carol, I have to say,
Speaker 1: very honestly, I think too many companies put it off
Speaker 1: to the side for too long. No more. We are
Speaker 1: talking about it all the time and we should be Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And this week we caught up again with Dr Iman Abuse.
Speaker 1: She's the CEO and co founder of Incredible Health. Her
Speaker 1: company connects hospitals with nurses and other healthcare workers. She's
Speaker 1: been a go to voice on the virus but also
Speaker 1: about diversity and inclusion, and this time around we talked
Speaker 1: about some research she did that stressed how we need
Speaker 1: to understand what the data is telling us to change
Speaker 1: the trajectory of diversity. Often hear that diversity is the
Speaker 1: right thing to do, but the conversation needs to change
Speaker 1: to the diversity is the data driven thing to do.
Speaker 1: Um As operators, as investors were accountable to shareholder driving
Speaker 1: shareholder values, and so we really need to understand diversity
Speaker 1: in in how it how it impacts the business results,
Speaker 1: and so how do you how do you find and
Speaker 1: assemble the right data that proves that right. So the
Speaker 1: there's a huge body of research that's already been published
Speaker 1: on on this topic and it includes from you know,
Speaker 1: from Harvard Business or view from McKenzie from the Kaufman
Speaker 1: Fellows and go on and uh, lots of academic papers
Speaker 1: and research, and what they show is that diverse teams
Speaker 1: UM deliver better business results. They are more drive more profitability,
Speaker 1: they drive more revenue, they're able to make decisions twice
Speaker 1: as fast UM, they are more innovative, and ultimately UM
Speaker 1: drive higher returns for investors as well. And so that
Speaker 1: needs really needs to be part of the conversation because
Speaker 1: we're all responsible for for driving UM financial returns. So
Speaker 1: why isn't it part of the conversation, Because you know,
Speaker 1: if if the data don't lie, which we are pretty
Speaker 1: confident it doesn't, let's stipulate that why hasn't this happened before?
Speaker 1: What are the entrenched interests that are essentially fighting this
Speaker 1: from happening. I think the challenges are, first of all,
Speaker 1: the awareness of the impact of diversity is pretty limited UM,
Speaker 1: and so this is the piece was an attempt to
Speaker 1: kind of expand the awareness of it UM. And then
Speaker 1: the second thing is that it's hard. It's actually quite
Speaker 1: difficult to pull off. It's challenging to hire a diverse team.
Speaker 1: So you know, there's this concept of UM diversity death,
Speaker 1: for example, which is similar to technical death, and that
Speaker 1: it is much faster and quicker for you for UM
Speaker 1: a leader to hire a homogeneous team, um, but then
Speaker 1: they're going to pay for it later because when they
Speaker 1: do want to hire that star, you know, black engineer
Speaker 1: for mample, if they're not going to join. And so
Speaker 1: it's a critical to address diversity at the very beginning
Speaker 1: when you're just starting a team or just starting a company,
Speaker 1: because it's becomes excreasingly more difficult over time. How much, too,
Speaker 1: is just unconscious bias. I'm not trying to give people excuses,
Speaker 1: but I do wonder a lot of the conversation. And
Speaker 1: you were kind enough to participate in a panel that
Speaker 1: we did with our Bloomberg Live and Bloomberg Breakaway team,
Speaker 1: a bunch of CEOs. We talked about diversity and inclusion,
Speaker 1: what needs to be done, But how often is it
Speaker 1: people just kind of hire people who they're comfortable with,
Speaker 1: whether they realize it or not. Look, the truth is
Speaker 1: it's human nature to have bias, whether it's unconscious or conscious.
Speaker 1: It's just part of being human. But but but that's
Speaker 1: not We have to take that one step further and
Speaker 1: implement goals and prophecies that are going to counter that bias.
Speaker 1: And that is what you see the best operators and
Speaker 1: best investors do so. For example, UM when when you
Speaker 1: know you know, let' let's say you're an investor and
Speaker 1: you're evaluating a minority founder. Some top investors, including those
Speaker 1: that Andrews and Horwit's NFX Obvious Ventures, have put in
Speaker 1: place on UM bias checks. So there's another and additional
Speaker 1: check that they do UM that's built into their process
Speaker 1: to make sure that they haven't missed anything with this
Speaker 1: female founder or this black founder. But how come then
Speaker 1: we I got to follow up on that for sex Jase,
Speaker 1: Because how come then you know IMAN that there If
Speaker 1: if there's that awareness and they have those checks, why
Speaker 1: is it still in the world of venture capital that
Speaker 1: it's still largely male and white businesses that get funded. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: there's still it's still the tiny, tiny miority investors that
Speaker 1: have implemented some of these changes, whether it's the unconscious
Speaker 1: biased checks that they do UM, whether it's making diversity
Speaker 1: a priority and and and measuring it as well as
Speaker 1: fixing their sourcing by expanding their networks in order to
Speaker 1: in order to UM connect with more black professional GPU.
Speaker 1: First of all, making it an objective that hey, we
Speaker 1: want a diverse team or a diverse portfolio. The second
Speaker 1: piece of it is UM when when doing that you know,
Speaker 1: hiring process or that diligence process, you have an additional
Speaker 1: check in the process and and and the partner spent
Speaker 1: the partnership or the team spends more time on on
Speaker 1: on a on an employee that or or an investment
Speaker 1: that is diverse. UM. It's also built into a lot
Speaker 1: of our software as well, whether it's the investors or
Speaker 1: the operators, so there is there is a metadata or
Speaker 1: a check that this founder or this potential employee is
Speaker 1: a minority. UM person will pay attention and that's incredible.
Speaker 1: Health CEO dr Iman I was a joining us once again.
Speaker 1: And I've loved the way our conversations with her Carol
Speaker 1: have evolved, because I feel like we went to her
Speaker 1: to talk about one crisis, and then we ended up
Speaker 1: talking more and more about another one, and now we're
Speaker 1: really talking about where they come together, this nexus of
Speaker 1: these national crises. Yeah, we've really gone to her for
Speaker 1: a lot of different things that have been impacting our
Speaker 1: world over the last eighteen weeks. You're listening to Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week, we continue our conversation on diversity and inclusion.
Speaker 1: This time from the world of sports. We'll check in
Speaker 1: with the majority owner of Richard Petty Motorsports. They in
Speaker 1: fact announced a new deal on our show, This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason
Speaker 1: Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. Well, today we're bringing you some
Speaker 1: of the most important, we hope informative conversations we had
Speaker 1: across the week on our daily Bloomberg Business Week radio show. Carol, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and one of the conversations we had to wrap up
Speaker 1: this week is Andrew Murstin, founder, president, and largest shareholder
Speaker 1: of Medallion Financial. They're also the majority owner of Richard
Speaker 1: Petty Motorsports. They had some news this week about a
Speaker 1: really important sponsor. Here's our conversation. We're very proud at
Speaker 1: Richard Petty Motorsports to announce a new sponsor, which is
Speaker 1: cash App, which is owned by Square and of course
Speaker 1: backed by Jack Dorsey. They just signed on with us
Speaker 1: and it's a multi year deal and they're new to
Speaker 1: the sport. It's their first sports franchise that they're sponsoring.
Speaker 1: So what does that do to you in terms of
Speaker 1: the financial equation? How does something like that change your story? Um,
Speaker 1: it's changes this significantly. You know, Bubba, as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: is the first African American driver in nearly fifty years
Speaker 1: in NASCAR, which is just remarkable to me that he's
Speaker 1: been the only full time driver since literally the nineties
Speaker 1: seventies or so. And the sport is pretty much based
Speaker 1: off of sponsorship. My partner is Richard Petty and if
Speaker 1: you remember years ago, he had STP as his main sponsor,
Speaker 1: and I really took him to another level, and that's
Speaker 1: what we're hoping for. The world of NASCAR operates differently
Speaker 1: than other sports in that everybody has their own equipment.
Speaker 1: It's strange if you think about in football, you know,
Speaker 1: use one football and use the same equipment basically, but
Speaker 1: here you're building a car from scratch. So money is key,
Speaker 1: and sponsorships starts everything once you have the right sponsor
Speaker 1: in place, when it usually comes after that. So we
Speaker 1: have to talk about this Confederate flag issue if we can. Andrew,
Speaker 1: this has royaled the sport, maybe in an unexpected way.
Speaker 1: I think for a big portion of the population it
Speaker 1: was long overdue. For another part of the population, a
Speaker 1: smaller part of the population, significantly significantly smaller. We hope
Speaker 1: it was an outrageous move on the part of NASCAR.
Speaker 1: How do you see it? Yes, I'm very pleased, you know. Frankly,
Speaker 1: this ang kind of started years ago at Median Financial UM.
Speaker 1: Our board of directors was Mario Cuomo and Hank Garon,
Speaker 1: who actually just retired from the board recently, and we
Speaker 1: look at different sports and see, um, you know, which
Speaker 1: ones really we could help in terms of promoting diversity,
Speaker 1: and NASCAR was at the top of the list. That's
Speaker 1: why we decided to invest in NASCAR about ten years ago.
Speaker 1: So by us UM getting behind Bubba, it's really I
Speaker 1: think opening up a whole new spectrum of fans for
Speaker 1: the sport. And the goal is, and I know it's
Speaker 1: just a goal at this point, but we would love
Speaker 1: for Bubba to kind of be the Tiger Woods of Gulf.
Speaker 1: Tiger transformed the sport, brought a new fans, brought an
Speaker 1: excitement to the sport, and that's what I think you're
Speaker 1: gonna see with Bubba. I've had falls from everybody from
Speaker 1: Jay Z to Lebron James, who love Bubba, want to
Speaker 1: be a part of what he's doing and fully support him.
Speaker 1: But talk to us a little bit more about. You know,
Speaker 1: I want to dig a little bit deeper into this
Speaker 1: Confederate flag scandal. I mean, what does it say about
Speaker 1: motor sports in the United States and the controversy over
Speaker 1: and do you think NASCAR handled it well? To be
Speaker 1: quite honest, yes, you know, I think it was long overdue. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, everyone can have their own view about the
Speaker 1: Confederate flag, but it made for an uncomfortable atmosphere for
Speaker 1: many people in the sport, including Bubba, and Bubba is
Speaker 1: I believe the new face of the sport. And um,
Speaker 1: he stood up on CNN and asked for change in
Speaker 1: the sport, and NASCAR took a giant step. You don't
Speaker 1: see other sports leagues really accomplish what NASCAR did. You know,
Speaker 1: the NFL, the NBA, they perhaps back down when it
Speaker 1: comes to issues like China, but here's a very different situation.
Speaker 1: NASCAR recognized that it was offensive to many people, Bubba
Speaker 1: went on TV spoke about it, and two days later
Speaker 1: they banned the flag. So, um, you know, not everybody
Speaker 1: loved it. Frankly, there's some fans who were against it,
Speaker 1: But overall, the sport I believe will rise to a
Speaker 1: new level. Andrew I want to push you on that
Speaker 1: just a little bit. I'm not sure that many people,
Speaker 1: um would say that NASCAR was progressive in this regard.
Speaker 1: Maybe some people would say that NASCAR was long overdue
Speaker 1: uh in doing this, and and certainly it's it's a
Speaker 1: valid discussion to talk about player empowerment, driver driver empowerment
Speaker 1: in your case, across the different sports. But as you,
Speaker 1: I think yourself said, this should have been done a
Speaker 1: long time ago. I you can argue, yes, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean Nascar, I had a loyalty perhaps or a
Speaker 1: respect for their fans that are been with them for
Speaker 1: fifty plus years, and the sport grew up in the South,
Speaker 1: so they always recognized there was an issue years ago.
Speaker 1: They did try to take action. Frankly, they offered fans
Speaker 1: the opportunity to trade in their Confederate flags or American flags,
Speaker 1: and some did, but it didn't overwhelmingly go over well.
Speaker 1: So you still have the Confederate flags there. But you know,
Speaker 1: I'm proud to be associated with them. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: not familiar with really any other leagues in the last
Speaker 1: thirty days that took such a major step forward as
Speaker 1: NASCART did. You are constantly competing against so many different options,
Speaker 1: whether it's a sports. You know, people's ability to do
Speaker 1: so many different things. And I think that's true of
Speaker 1: motorsports and NASCAR specifically right there they're fighting with you know,
Speaker 1: some of the folks that might come to a NASCAR event,
Speaker 1: they've got a lot of other options. You know, how
Speaker 1: how difficult is that making it for you all? Um,
Speaker 1: It's you know, not thing new. I mean that's always
Speaker 1: been the case. You're right, you know. We looked in
Speaker 1: investing in many different sports. We had one of the
Speaker 1: first sports funds back about ten years ago. I started
Speaker 1: a company called Sports Properties and it was a spack
Speaker 1: before spects really became as popular as they are today.
Speaker 1: And we raised several hundred million dollars and we probably
Speaker 1: looked at more sports teams than anybody. We looked at
Speaker 1: almost every league, and we ended up with NASCAR because
Speaker 1: I think it's different than many other sports. I'd like
Speaker 1: the business model of it. It's um, you know, other
Speaker 1: sports of your pay rolls for example, or significantly higher. NASCAR.
Speaker 1: Basically you have one star athlete. It's probably the first
Speaker 1: or second best attendive sport in the country behind the NFL.
Speaker 1: Its viewership is second behind the NFL, so it has
Speaker 1: a lot of promise. But to me, the key for
Speaker 1: growth is to expand their fan base. You know, they
Speaker 1: had a southern view originally and then it spread through
Speaker 1: other parts of the country, but they still do not
Speaker 1: have a multi diverse fan base, and I think if
Speaker 1: they do and they accept that challenge, they'll go to
Speaker 1: another level. Well, they kind of had to write. I mean,
Speaker 1: if we take a look at some of the stories,
Speaker 1: you know, over the last year or so, I mean
Speaker 1: there were concerns about the NASCAR audience, right, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of declining. NFL has dealt with it as well,
Speaker 1: and so they needed to be supportive of Baba No
Speaker 1: right because they do as you said, they need to
Speaker 1: expand their audience, right. I mean, you know, certain sports
Speaker 1: have niche audiences. You know, hockey, for example, in my view,
Speaker 1: is a very initial audience and they're not expanding their
Speaker 1: fan base like NASCAR is. So you can get by
Speaker 1: and do well with just a niche type of audience,
Speaker 1: but you're right. To get to another level, they really
Speaker 1: should open up their eyes, which they did, and take
Speaker 1: action and really try to make conclusiveness a big part
Speaker 1: of the sport. So, Andrew, let's talk about the money
Speaker 1: that is in and around sports, because ultimately what we
Speaker 1: have seen is economics drive behavior. We talked about that
Speaker 1: all the time on this show, whether it comes to
Speaker 1: Facebook and big companies boy kinning Facebook over their unwillingness
Speaker 1: maybe two police hate speech, the way that some folks
Speaker 1: think they should economic drive sports as well. How much
Speaker 1: of what's happening now in NASCAR specifically is driven by
Speaker 1: the fact that you do have sponsors saying hold on,
Speaker 1: wait a second, maybe we need to be more inclusive,
Speaker 1: maybe we need to think about this sport in a
Speaker 1: different way a lot. That's a good point, you know,
Speaker 1: even though we had the only African American driver, we
Speaker 1: still we're not getting a lot of notice. Frankly, until
Speaker 1: things changed for us. The tipping point for us was
Speaker 1: about thirty days ago when we had an empty race
Speaker 1: car because we didn't have a sponsor on it, and
Speaker 1: we decided to put a Black Lives Matter concept on
Speaker 1: the car in Martinsville, and the hood of the car
Speaker 1: read compassion, love and understanding. Once that occurred, not exaggerating,
Speaker 1: we must have had twenty calls for major corporations within
Speaker 1: the next week after that, asking more about who Bubb is,
Speaker 1: what's happening with the sport. So the first one just
Speaker 1: signed on again about an hour ago with cash App,
Speaker 1: but I can tell you there's many other interested parties
Speaker 1: at significant dollars, and once the dollars start, once somebody
Speaker 1: gets behind a driver, it's these guys are all about
Speaker 1: momentum and confidence, and I can I know it's going
Speaker 1: to portray onto the racetrack that it starts winning, more
Speaker 1: dollars come in, and that leads to better cars and
Speaker 1: then even more winning. So it's a great circle when
Speaker 1: you're going in the right direction. That's Medallion Financial CEO
Speaker 1: Andrew Murstein. They are the majority owner of Richard Petty
Speaker 1: Motor Sports. And I feel like Jason over the last
Speaker 1: couple of weeks we've talked a lot about NASCAR and
Speaker 1: Bubba Wallace and really the role of so many institutions
Speaker 1: and organizations and the world of sports when it comes
Speaker 1: to racism. Absolutely, and we're also talking about it importantly
Speaker 1: through the lens of economics and sponsorship. And so that's
Speaker 1: one of the reasons this was so interesting to talk
Speaker 1: to him on that particular day when cash App comes
Speaker 1: in and basically says they're going to be a new
Speaker 1: sponsor because Bubba Wallace All Eyes are on him is
Speaker 1: very comfortable in that position and so interesting to hear
Speaker 1: Andrew Rstein say, as you pointed out early in the show,
Speaker 1: this is the new face of Nascar. Yeah, exactly. And
Speaker 1: Erstine did say he's working on ways to improve that
Speaker 1: pipeline for NASCAR drivers, So we'll continue checking with him
Speaker 1: to see about those improvements. Well, that's going to wrap
Speaker 1: up the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. I'm Jason Kelly
Speaker 1: and I'm Carol Masser. Be sure to tune into Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week Radio Live Monday through Friday starting at two
Speaker 1: pm Wall Street Time. And if you can't catch us live,
Speaker 1: get our daily Bloomberg Business Week podcast wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcast and get the full conversations like the one
Speaker 1: we had with Dr Ayman Abusaid, one of our go
Speaker 1: to voices, a really important person to understand both from
Speaker 1: the virus pandemic crisis, but also the racial justice crisis,
Speaker 1: and also Dr Wayne Frederick, the president of Howard University.
Speaker 1: I feel like these are important conversations for everyone to
Speaker 1: listen to. And speaking of conversations, check out more of
Speaker 1: the chat we had with wonder Ree Chief Operating Officer
Speaker 1: Jen Sergeant. You heard her earlier in this show, but
Speaker 1: get the full conversation. She talks about why podcasts are
Speaker 1: taking off during the pandemic, how the listening though trends
Speaker 1: are changing. Here that conversation in our extra podcast, and
Speaker 1: you can also watch the show live on YouTube. Our
Speaker 1: daily show just search for Bloomberg Global News. We'll be
Speaker 1: back next week at the same time. This is Woolberg.
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