WEBVTT - Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend-July 18, 2020 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:04.480 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:08.080 Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. I am Jason Kelly and I'm 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:11.160 Carol Masser. Welcome to the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week. 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:13.039 Over the next couple of hours, we're gonna bring you 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:15.880 news of the week, insights from some of our favorite 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.880 interviews throughout the week, and of course, highlights from the magazine. Jason, 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:23.400 it was week eighteen. We definitely had some themes this week, 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:26.279 and I gotta say virus big, big time. Some of 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:29.840 the front runners throughout the week, weighing in on how 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:32.920 they are doing when it comes to creating a vaccine, 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:35.680 also what people have been listening to and buying during 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:37.840 these weeks of living with the virus shutdown, and also 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:41.920 figuring out diversity and inclusion, whether it's NASCAR or in 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:44.960 the investment world. Well, and I feel like we're also 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:47.919 starting to tease out a theme of how this is 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:52.320 affecting everyone and how this is affecting their worldviews. And 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:57.160 this week, one of America's richest men, anonymously we should note, 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.520 opened up to none other than Max Abeles In our 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:04.000 lovely colleague. We love talking to him. About COVID risk 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:06.800 and luck he's going to give us an insider's view. 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:10.160 I realized pretty quickly that there was something sort of 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:13.000 important happening in our conversations that I wanted to try 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:15.800 to get down on paper if I much more on 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:19.440 that conversation later, plus my conversation at Carol with Howard 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:24.080 University President Dr. Wayne Frederick his school's reopening plans, but 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:28.080 also how he's dealing with these dueling crises, not just 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:30.240 as a president but as a father. Yeah, and his 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:33.560 personal story is really really impressive. So looking forward to 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:36.440 that conversation. But first up, Jason, We've got to talk 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:38.600 about the vaccine, because there are a lot of headlines 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:41.760 on the Bloomberg about the pursuit of that by a 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:44.160 lot of different players. We caught up with Bloomberg News 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:47.000 senior writer Stephanie Baker. She wrote the cover story this week. 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:50.120 She's been constantly giving us a front row seat when 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:53.080 it comes to the virus because of her personal story. 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:55.440 This week, she talked to the COVID vaccine front runner, 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:58.640 who's months ahead of her competition. We talked with Stephanie 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:01.400 and the editor of the mag magazine, Jil Weber. One 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:03.200 of the most important people in the world right now? 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:07.880 Who's an Oxford professor named Sarah Gilbert who has basically 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:14.119 been toiling away on VA vaccines for coronavirus, is never 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:18.040 getting any attention. She had, uh, you know, the effort 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:21.400 that is she's is sort of the culminating effort right 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.160 now began actually with a bola and then she went 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:27.120 to Mers and Lo and behold, at the beginning of 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.839 the year, all of a sudden a coronavirus pops up, 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:32.960 and suddenly we have a person who had been working 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:35.400 on a very similar project and was able to pivot 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:40.440 and basically changed some of the approaches that they were 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:44.000 looking at. But there she is months ahead of where 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:47.080 we think other people are in terms of maybe being 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:52.320 able to have a viable vaccine. And Stephanie, UM, I'm 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:55.720 just really curious. What what is she like? What is 0:02:55.720 --> 0:03:01.040 her Gilbert like? Yeah, I mean she's really interesting. I 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:07.280 felt a bit like, um, a pestering student asking for 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:09.680 you know, what the next homework assignment would be. You know, 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:15.800 she has she's extraordinarily sort of focused and efficient and 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:19.399 conscious of keeping her eye on the prize in terms 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:22.680 of not wasting her time. You know on things that 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.960 are not relevant and that it's just it comes across 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:30.000 and every interaction I had with her. Um, you know, 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:35.480 she's a serious minded scientist. Um. And she knows that, 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:37.520 you get the sense when you speak to her, she 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:41.200 knows that this is her moment that years of research 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:45.200 might finally pay off because of a sort of confluence 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.800 of events. Um. And you know that she needs to, 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:52.000 you know, really just keep on with it, keep on 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:55.840 top of it, and take one challenge at a time 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:58.680 to try to you know, sort of push this thing 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:02.360 forward and hopefully across the line. Um. You know, she's 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:04.800 a scientist. She's not she's not a warm and fuzzy person. 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:08.119 She's she's you know, but I wouldn't want I would 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:12.040 want someone to be as serious minded as she is. Um. 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:14.080 If you're looking for someone to save us from this 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:18.880 mass So so, Stephanie, there's there's dozens, I think in 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:21.800 the hundreds of efforts now under underway to actually get 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:27.919 this vaccine. What makes the Oxford approach different than some 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:31.000 of these other ones, including you know Maderna came up 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:34.920 as one that the market got really excited about. What 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:39.240 what is Oxford's approach here? Yeah, I think that one 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:42.839 of the biggest differences is the safety profile. And you know, 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:45.640 we'll find out more about the Oxford vaccine when they 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:51.400 report preliminary results from their Phase one trial on Monday. UM, 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:56.400 but all along UM, Sarah Gilbert has expressed, you know, 0:04:56.600 --> 0:05:00.000 confidence in the safety profile of this vaccine that they've 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.000 tested it in something like twelve different vaccines. In those 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:06.280 vaccines haven't one approval, but they've that that platform, the 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:09.799 technology that she's using, has been in thousands of people already, 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:13.760 so they have a fairly confident sense of you know, 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:17.840 what the adverse event you know, profile of this vaccine 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:19.599 would be, and they're they're quite confident that that's not 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:21.960 a huge hurdle. And I think, you know, some of 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:25.320 the results that came up from Madarrena there the adverse 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:29.800 event profile did take some analysis by surprise, UM. And 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:32.479 if you think about we need a vaccine for not millions, 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:37.720 but potentially billions of people. If you've got five adverse 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.080 event profile and you multiply that by the number of 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:44.200 people they're going to need to have a vaccine, that's huge, right. 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:48.240 So we need something that is safe primarily to be 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:50.440 able to roll it out to a large number of people. 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:55.599 Obviously it's extraordinarily competitive, you know, I think, um, you know, 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:59.120 there's a there's a race to get their first. Um. 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:02.039 You know, I did look at, for instance, the last 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:06.200 the polio vaccine that was developed by Jonas Salk, who 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:11.280 was you know, you know, given banner headlines as you know, 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:16.520 the one who saved the world from the stabilitating disease polio. 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:19.520 You know, I've also often thought that whoever gets to 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:22.400 a vaccine first in this case, even if it's not perfect, 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:26.000 we'll be kind of the Jonas Salk of our time. Um, 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:29.720 I think there is you know, even with the competitive 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:34.120 nature of this, I think there is collaboration among scientists, 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:36.080 and you see it on social media and you see 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:38.400 it in through the research reports. And one of the 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.000 things that Sarah Gilbert said to me is, you know, 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:43.920 no one knows how strong the immune response really needs 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:47.320 to be to achieve protection. And that's Bloomberg Goose senior 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:50.480 writer Stephanie Baker and Business Week editor Joel Weber. Listen, 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:52.559 this is the only story in many ways that matters 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:55.159 the vaccine. That's right coming up next. We actually caught 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:57.719 up with another front runner We're talking about the CEO 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:03.000 of a novel pharmaceuticals that is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:08.160 Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. Well, 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:09.880 today we're bringing you some the most important, we hope 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:13.480 informative conversations we had on our daily Bloomberg Business Week 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:18.320 radio show this week. It really was dominated by I 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.080 think some optimism, Carol, dare I say it in week 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:24.240 eighteen about a vaccine right from the likes of Maderna, 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:26.960 Astra Zenica and some others. Those stocks moved because of 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:29.880 some upbeat news about the vaccine. We caught up with 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:33.920 Anovia Pharmaceuticals. They, Jason are among the front runners among 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:38.160 those looking to create a vaccine for COVID nineteen. We 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:41.160 talked specifically with the president and CEO of Anovio, Dr 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:45.800 Joseph Kim. There's many companies like in Novo and others 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:50.400 for blazing the trail UH just in the last six 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:57.360 months or so, trying to make history and developing several 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:02.760 vaccines UH that can be approved to be used both 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:07.600 safely and effectively against this horrible pandemic. So tell us 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:12.520 where you are and what you've learned so far, Dr Kim, Yes, 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:18.280 absolutely so. We just reported on the preliminary data in 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:24.840 our first clinical study involving forty healthy volunteers UH in 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:29.120 the ages of eighteen to fifty UH, and we demonstrated 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:34.840 very strong safety one of the safest vaccine platforms UH 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:39.920 in this COVID nineteen race, and also demonstrating greater than 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:47.360 of our participants having UH strong overall immune responses in 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:52.600 a balanced way, both in UH antibody responses as well 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:56.439 as having PI cell responses, which is another arm of 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:59.800 the immune system that is very important for protecting against 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.960 our own disease, Dr Kim. When that came out, that 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:05.040 was a couple of weeks ago, and you're you know, 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:09.359 investors certainly reacted to it. A Steeple analyst said. Investors 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:11.920 are likely to focus on the pacity of information in 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:16.160 the release, which may raise more questions than answers. When 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.079 are you going to publish your peer reviewed immune response 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:22.160 data and and where will you will you publish it 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:26.880 at any update? And when larger trials will start here? Yeah, 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:30.640 the second part of that question. First, So we're looking 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:37.160 to start our phase to slash three efficacy trials upon 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:41.840 getting regulatory concurrence this summer, so we're still on track 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:46.000 for that. UH. In terms of the Phase one data, 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:50.280 we are as we stayed, looking forward to publishing it 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:55.559 in a peer reviewed UM publication, hopefully in the next 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:59.760 few weeks as well. So when you think about the 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:05.240 timeline here, Dr Kim, what is a reasonable timeline to 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:10.760 get your first vaccine available for use? And I think 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:16.360 everyone wants to know when it will be widely available. Yeah, 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.320 you know, UH in no view as well as other 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:24.080 companies are racing against as far at UH to bring 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.880 us safe and effective vacs into the public as soon 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:30.960 as possible. That all depends on how well the trials 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:34.920 go in Phase two and Phase three stagies UH and 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:40.280 demonstrating true efficacy and safety of the vaccine. UH. The 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:45.839 FDA just released a guidance documents to the industry which 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:50.439 provides their thoughts on what it's going to require. And 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.680 you know, it's it's it's certainly as rapidly as we're 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:58.400 running all of us. There's dozens of companies around the 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:02.199 world trying to get the vaccine. It's gonna take some time, 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:06.520 but I think there's been a lot of incremental successes 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:10.319 in phase one and and many companies going into Phase two, 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:16.920 including our plans at Inovo is a twenty wide release 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.560 too much to hope for. Well, I think that's a 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:24.040 goal and that certainly is an aspiration that many of 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:27.600 us in the field have. It really depends and and 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:32.440 and ironically it also depends on how bad infection is 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:36.360 around us. Uh. You know, that would put a pressure 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:42.480 or balance to the benefits and the cost of having 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:48.000 a vaccines set of vaccines approved earlier. Conditionally. I mean, 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:52.599 these are the things that the FDA and their policymakers 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:57.959 will have to to decide on. What we focused on 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:02.160 a Innovo and I'm assuming other companies as well, is 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:06.800 to execute the next steps in the development, so next trials, 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:10.959 next testing, so that we will be in a proper 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:15.600 position to get the vaccines approved, uh, through this gauntlet. 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:20.079 You know, it typically takes up to ten years or 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:24.600 longer to get a vaccine approved. And everyone started or 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.560 you know, from from day one at the same place 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:31.480 in January, so you know, we're we're moving in a 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:36.160 historical pace, but it's never fast enough because there are 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:39.320 people dying every day. You said, though, how bad the 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:42.800 infection is around US will determine potentially, I guess how 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.560 regulators how quickly they want to move things along. If 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:49.600 we don't see a second surge or if cases seem 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:53.160 to die down, does this whole movement of finding a 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:59.000 vaccine slowed down as well globally? Well, that's that's always 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:03.559 a potential and certainly that would be great for the society. 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.640 Um But as we're in the middle of the first 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:11.880 wave and there's many experts predicting the second wave, all 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:16.640 we can do as vaccine developers focused on our objective, 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:20.480 which is to test properly the safety and advocacy of 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:24.920 the vaccine and be ready when we're called upon. Some 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:28.960 of your peers have received larger government funding or significance 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.480 amount of funding. What about for you, guys, do you 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:35.920 see getting any additional funds from the government. Well, I 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:42.319 think absolutely. I think Udobio has already received extensive external 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:46.720 funding from US Department of Defense just recently a couple 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:50.000 of weeks ago, as well as from the Bill and 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:54.280 Melinda Gates Foundation and SEPPI in the past. That's Novio 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:58.079 Pharmaceuticals President CEO Dr Joseph Kim. That stock has been 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:00.680 on a tear like so many biotech and farm companies 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:03.040 this year, there are a lot of companies Jason, out 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:07.360 there looking for a cure for COVID nineteens, specifically a vaccine. 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:09.920 What I loved about this conversation is this was one 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.439 of those that I got off air. I came home, 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:15.040 had dinner, and I said, here's what I learned about 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:18.600 the vaccine from the CEO. And that was very purposeful, 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:20.600 I think on our part to essentially say, all right, 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:22.640 all right, let's get down to brass tacks. How many 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:24.320 shots are we talking about, When is this going to 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:26.080 be out? What do we need to be thinking about, 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:28.840 because ultimately that's what matters. I mean, I'm going to 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:31.520 leave the science to the scientists. What I want to 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.760 know is how is this going to affect candidly me, 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.800 my family, my community, and the world in terms of 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:40.000 getting back to whatever the next normal is going to be? Well? 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:42.640 And what's interesting, Jason, as the traditional form in biotech 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:45.720 world hunt for a virus vaccine, others are seeking at 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:47.880 more non traditional methods to help them get through this 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:51.200 stressful time. Simply put, demand for cannabis, folks, it is up. 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:53.400 And we checked in with one of the largest players 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:56.040 in the United States, the co founder of Purely Boris 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:58.400 Jordan's that's coming up next. I can't wait for that. 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:05.800 This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:09.800 Masser and Jason Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. We're bring some 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.560 of the most important and informative conversations we had throughout 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.200 the week on our daily radio show. Reminder to everybody, 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:19.240 we know the news once again happening fast and furiously, 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:21.960 and these interviews happening in real time well and as 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:25.800 the pandemic continues. Carol Cannabis is one of the surprise 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:29.000 winners here. We were delighted to catch up with Cure 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:32.720 Leafs executive chairman and co founder, Boris Jordan's quick reminder. 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:35.560 He was part of the Bloomberg fifty. We actually sat 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.040 down with him. Remember that when we used to physically 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:40.240 do interviews with people in the same place. Well, we 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.440 did that at a big Bloomberg fifty event in New 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.960 York City back in December. A lot has changed and 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.160 actually for the better. With care Leaf, we've seen a 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:53.880 substantial increase in foot traffic UM. We've also seen substantial 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:58.440 increases in in UM basket sizes. So basket sizes and 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.160 some of our states almost doubled uh in size from 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:03.560 what they used to be. Uh. And foot traffic is 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:08.080 up tremendously. UM. I would say that, UM being growth, 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:10.840 That's what I wanted to know. You know, we love numbers. 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:15.360 So the foot traffic and the basket uh increases. Can 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:18.000 you just say that again? Yeah, yeah, foot traffic and 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:23.920 basket increases together with revenue all about quarter over quarder. Wow. 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:29.840 And so obviously a bit unanticipated as everything was about 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:33.360 this pandemic. I mean, tell us, what's what's driving that. 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:36.520 So one of the things that we've noticed this is 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:38.880 that we're seeing a new customer come into the stores 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:44.080 now UM, an older customer uh dealing with UM things 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:48.800 like uh you know, stress anxiety during COVID UH wanting 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:53.520 to get off of uh prescribed drugs from you know, 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:58.240 from uh drug companies and moving on to more natural products. 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:00.760 And so we've seen a huge surge, particularly in the 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:06.800 sleep aid category UH you know, lozengers, tinctures, um, uh, dummies, 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:11.240 that kind of thing helping particularly the older folks deal 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.000 with the COVID stress and anxiety. And that's been a 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.320 really new customer base. I'm not kidding when I tell 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.440 you that we've seen customers over eighty years of age 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:21.639 coming into our store buying these products. And that's a 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:25.760 new thing for you guys. Yes, I I yeah. Generally 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:27.359 the medical sides that we as you know, we have 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:29.520 two different lines. We have a pure Leaf line, which 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:32.440 is a wellness line, and selected adult use line. Generally, 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.200 the Cure Leaf line does see an older so sort 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:37.760 of an average of fifty two years of age customer, 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:41.080 but we've seen a much older customer coming into the stores. 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:43.760 We've seen people in their late sixties, seventies, and I said, 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:46.720 even eighties coming into the stores and buying sleep aids 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.119 as a whole. And I think sleep is going to 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.440 be a major major category on the wellness side of cannabis. 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:55.000 I think you're exactly right. I mean we're seeing that 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:57.920 more and more. I mean, Ariana Huffington certainly was onto 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:01.200 something when she started talking about that a few years ago. 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.320 So Borth, what did you have to do in your 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:08.320 retail locations, because as foot traffic increases, you know, that 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:10.520 used to be just like hey, great, there are more people. 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.600 But now in the age of COVID, in the age 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:16.960 of social distancing, What did you have to do and 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.560 and and how much did you have to do to 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.760 change out your stories. We were very lucky that the 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:26.760 governors really went out and and and liberalize some of 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:28.399 the rules. So one of the things we had to 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:32.560 incorporate is online ordering. So we incorporate online ordering and 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.240 all of the states. We did curbside pickup in all 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:38.000 of the states, so people really would order online. They 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.520 pay well. Now have five of our stations, so using 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:43.639 debit cards, which is a new product for cannabis. So 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:46.160 it used to be all cash, and we're seeing more 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.560 and more banks accepting debit cards and payment processors and 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:51.560 so debit cards, and that's one of the reasons we're 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:53.639 seeing the increase in basket size because in the past, 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:55.600 if you came to the store with a hundred dollars 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:57.280 in your pocket, you can only buy a hundred dollars 0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:00.280 a product. Now you're coming in um with a debit card. 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:02.159 You've got a bigger balance on the debit cards than 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:05.320 a hundred dollars, you can actually buy more products. So 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:07.359 so the debit cards actually helped a lot. So it 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:11.400 was really curbside pickup. It was it was online ordering, 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:15.240 Um it was. It was you know, social distancing in 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:17.040 the store. So we had to add we had to 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.040 do all the things, you know, add the class and 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:22.560 all the stores. We had to control traffic, all these things, 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:25.960 because traffic was extensive. I mean, our New Jersey store 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:30.560 processes over a thousand customers a day. So boris is 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:34.959 it fair to say that from a regulatory perspective, especially 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:37.160 when it comes to payments and things like that? Were 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:40.520 there things that were accelerated owing to the pandemic and 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:42.320 some of the rules that had to come into place 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:44.840 maybe thinks you had been looking for before that maybe 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:48.119 happened a little more quickly. Yes, again, it's happened at 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:50.760 the state level. The federal level hasn't done anything yet 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:53.800 to to help the industry, but the states did because 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:56.000 they were concerned about the well being that I mean, 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:59.520 cannabis was made essential um uh service and therefore they 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:01.359 were con learned about the well being of both the 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:04.240 people working in the stores and the company as well 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:07.960 as the patients. And so the states liberalize these rules, 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:11.240 working together with the cannabis companies in their respective states 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:15.399 and finding ways to deliver these products in a safer way, 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:17.520 and that's what we're able to do. And that's currently 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:21.440 the executive chairman co founder Boris Jordan's joining us. Obviously, 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:24.160 they have been able to meet what is by all 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:28.480 accounts huge demand. They're also taking advantage of some weakness 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:32.200 in the market, Carol, the broader market, some consolidation going 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:34.160 on when it comes to cannabis. Yeah, and we also 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:36.600 talked to him about the regulatory Frontier says that he 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:40.840 expects of the US having access to recreational cannabis by 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:44.000 next year. That to put pressure on Congress to legalize 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:46.439 and clarify the industry. So good to get him to 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:49.199 weigh in on that. Okay, so demand for cannabis is up. 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:52.080 So two is demand for listening to podcasts coming up. 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:54.280 We get more on that from the chief operating officer 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:57.199 at Wandering. Of course, a whole separate segment is what 0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:00.440 happens when you put the two together. This is Bloomberg. 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:08.720 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:12.639 Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. Well, today we'll bring you some 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:15.359 of the most important, we hope informative conversations we had 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:18.560 Carol and I did on our Bloomberg Business Week Daily 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.760 radio show. I love podcast, Carol, I know you do. 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:23.960 You're always suggesting you should be listening to this, you 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:26.520 should be listening to that one. What's interesting is the 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:29.560 podcast producer Jason Wondering. They launched its app last month. 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:32.919 They are tapping specifically into increased demand for podcasts that 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:36.040 is happening right now. Jen Sargent is the chief operating 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:40.520 officer at Wondering. She's also working on expanding the podcasters 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:43.720 audience and developing TV, book and film projects from its 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:46.520 library of podcast programs. She talked with us about all 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:49.560 of that. What we've seen during the pandemic is actually 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:53.639 people really leaning in so listening to podcast and I 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:56.680 think as we've all been social distancing and changing our 0:21:56.720 --> 0:22:00.320 habits and spending more time at home, uh, umers, I 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:03.200 found all these different ways to be listening to podcast, 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:07.359 whether it's cooking or gardening, or walking the dog, um 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:10.679 or just cleaning around the house. Podcasts are a great 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:13.600 piece of kind of mediate to take with you on 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:16.280 the go and and really be able to kind of 0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:20.520 multitask something else around your house. And as a result, UM, 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:24.600 we we've really seen um some some great list and 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:28.800 listening UM recently. And we've also seen shifts in behavior 0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:31.680 where you know, prior to the pandemic, it was all 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:35.240 about commuting and your time at the gym and and 0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:38.360 those were two of the big use cases for for podcasts. 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:41.400 But now we see listening throughout the day and on 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:44.000 the weekends and and just um, you know, we can 0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:47.840 see consumers really um listening in a different way. And 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:49.720 I have a lot of theories of of why that's 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:52.800 happening right now, but UM, it's been a really positive 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:56.040 time for podcasts. I'll also say that, you know, just 0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:58.960 on the production side of things, UM, we've been able 0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:02.760 to keep doucing podcasts during the pandemic. And I think 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:06.159 you know, UM, I mean, I don't know about YouTube, 0:23:06.200 --> 0:23:08.200 but I've I've kind of caught up on my Netflix 0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:11.879 and my Hulu and and and with TV production on 0:23:12.040 --> 0:23:15.480 hold right now, UM, it's the source of new content. 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:19.000 So uh for one gree but but all the podcasting 0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:21.840 UM publishers out there, most of us have been able 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:25.639 to adapt and to really um keep keep things moving 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:29.160 with new content. We've seen interest from talent who would 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:32.920 otherwise be busy with TV production getting involved in podcasts. 0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:36.480 So for the whole ecosystem, I think we've we've seen 0:23:36.520 --> 0:23:38.240