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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Creature Feature, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. I'm your host of Many Parasites, Katie Golden.

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Speaker 1: I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, but my proudest achievement

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Speaker 1: is owning a dog who likes to sniff her own

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Speaker 1: butt and gets mad at her own reflection. Today we're

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Speaker 1: talking about pets. When did humans decide to own pets?

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Speaker 1: Do we own pets or do pets own us? We're

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Speaker 1: also going to go into depth on animals, coronavirus and

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Speaker 1: other zoonotic diseases, and how you can protect yourself and

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Speaker 1: your pet. Discover this and more as we answered the

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Speaker 1: Agel question should we be making dog arcades? So joining

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Speaker 1: me today to talk about dogs, cats and the people

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Speaker 1: who love them are veterinarian Dr Lisa Lippman comedian Richie Redding,

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Speaker 1: who are a couple but most importantly host a podcast

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Speaker 1: together called We Don't Deserve Dogs. Welcome you guys for

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Speaker 1: having us. Thank you. We're big fans, huge fans, such

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Speaker 1: huge fans that we had you on the other week

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Speaker 1: and it was one of my most favorite episodes. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and you're some of your factoids I have, I've battered

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Speaker 1: people with a small gatherings. That's perfect. That's I want

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Speaker 1: people to assault other people with knowledge. Yeah, today we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk all about pets. I think right now people

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Speaker 1: are spending a lot of time with their pets, hopefully,

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Speaker 1: and I certainly am spending more time with my dog

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Speaker 1: than I ever have. Our Rhodesian ridge back Chloe has

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Speaker 1: been thriving in this quarantine. She just thinks it's the

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Speaker 1: longest Sunday ever. Yeah. Uh yeah. And a lot of

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Speaker 1: people are getting pets too, so it's another huge thing

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Speaker 1: that's happening. The shelters are clearing out and people are

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Speaker 1: fostering more than ever, and so it's yeah, so it's

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Speaker 1: a great time. It's a boom. It is interesting because

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Speaker 1: animals have had a long history of helping humans evolved

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Speaker 1: to new situations. So like evolved in the sense of

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Speaker 1: like our we're we're an interesting and unique animal in

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Speaker 1: that our society evolves much faster than our actual bodies,

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Speaker 1: and dogs and companion animals have been totally integral in

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Speaker 1: helping our society evolved. So I wanted to talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the history of pet ownership. Unfortunately, I'm

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Speaker 1: really only going to cover dogs and cats because that

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Speaker 1: is we have the most archaeological evidence on dogs and cats,

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Speaker 1: but it is really fascinating. So dogs in particular are

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Speaker 1: of great interest to geneticists, paleontologists, uh, paleogenomics, biology, archaeology,

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Speaker 1: and bioarchaeology. So all of these fields are really interested

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Speaker 1: in dogs because they have co evolved with us over

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Speaker 1: ten thousand years, which is an incredible amount of time.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know, do you guys know much about

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Speaker 1: sort of the history of uh, how we came to

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Speaker 1: consider dogs pets. I mean, I'm sure Lisa has a

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Speaker 1: much better perspective on this, but I mean, I'm just

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Speaker 1: I'm glad that we're doing this because I've always been

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Speaker 1: fascinated by the evolutionary process, from what I understand, is

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Speaker 1: just basically like inviting the nicest wolves in close, like

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Speaker 1: close to the fire, and then and then you get

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Speaker 1: to a puggle as the finished product. That to me

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Speaker 1: is amazing. And are they still involving? Is my other question.

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Speaker 1: That's I mean, well, we're breeding. I mean, they're making

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Speaker 1: different breeds all the time. I don't really know if

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Speaker 1: we can call that evolution, especially when you when you

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Speaker 1: have people interfere right, because like, for example, the bulldog,

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Speaker 1: the English bulldog would not that is not evolutionarily sound

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Speaker 1: breeding because they wouldn't. They deliver most of their puppies

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Speaker 1: by sea section, and so if they had to do themselves,

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Speaker 1: they would not be able to. So it's artificial so

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Speaker 1: I action, not natural selection, So I don't I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah some days, so it's it's a tough one. But

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Speaker 1: back to how dogs, No, you know, I I guess

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Speaker 1: with evolution, you probably know more about that than I would.

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Speaker 1: So they actually did come from wolves, uh, And so

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Speaker 1: the idea of like how we first domesticated them is

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Speaker 1: a wolf was thinking like, hey, there's a nice fire,

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Speaker 1: there's scraps by the fire. Maybe i'll be a little

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Speaker 1: bold and go up there and see what's going on.

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Speaker 1: And humans are like, hey, that's interesting. I've never seen

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Speaker 1: a wolf just like kind of come meekly up to

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Speaker 1: this fire. Let's see how this all works out. And

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Speaker 1: at first we probably regarded these these wolf ancestors to

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Speaker 1: dogs in terms of like what they could do for us,

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Speaker 1: so they could provide us with meat, pelts and possibly work,

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Speaker 1: but likely over time this relationship evolved into more of

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Speaker 1: a panionships, So they became pets in that we use

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Speaker 1: them not just for survival purposes but for companionship and

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Speaker 1: love and in friendship. So how did they provide meat?

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Speaker 1: Were they hunting with the wolves? Well you're not gonna

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Speaker 1: like the answer to this, but uh, we would actually

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Speaker 1: eat the wolf meat, So we would actually eat these

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Speaker 1: dog ancestors. But it's it's one of those things that

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Speaker 1: it's probably was kind of a fluid relationships, sorry, a

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Speaker 1: fluid or relationships. So probably we would have them around.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they were good at guarding us, maybe they were

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Speaker 1: good at helping us hunt, but we would occasionally eat them,

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Speaker 1: because when you are in these survival situations, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you have this animal that is following you around, and

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Speaker 1: even if it's even if you like it, you're still

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Speaker 1: going to eat it if you need need that meat.

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Speaker 1: It's precarious. For the wolf, it is precarious. But you

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Speaker 1: know they did. It must have not happened enough, or

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Speaker 1: at least it benefited them enough that they stuck around

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Speaker 1: with us long enough for us to be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know what, maybe we should be friends instead. So

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Speaker 1: they are thought to actually be the first domesticated animal

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Speaker 1: from over fifteen thousand years ago, so they all evolved

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Speaker 1: probably from a common wolf ancestor, which is also the

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Speaker 1: ancestor of modern day wolf, So they didn't evolve from

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Speaker 1: like sacy a wolf today. It's probably from a common

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Speaker 1: ancestor that is now presumed to be extinct. So there

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Speaker 1: is some evidence that there were multiple domestication events. One

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Speaker 1: study found there being two separate linear sorry lineages of

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Speaker 1: domesticated dogs from Europe and in Asia around twenty thousand

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Speaker 1: years ago. But there's some debate about this because other

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Speaker 1: researchers think there is like a single domestication event that

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Speaker 1: started in ancient Europe or the Middle East, which then

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Speaker 1: spread out to the rest of the world. And we're

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Speaker 1: still trying to figure that out by sequencing this ancient

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Speaker 1: dog and wolf DNA. Very cool, yeah, very cool. Were

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Speaker 1: they were the ancient wolves bigger bigger than dogs, like

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Speaker 1: bigger than than than current wolves, Probably not that much bigger.

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Speaker 1: It's just like they, you know, we're a different species

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Speaker 1: of animal. It doesn't necessarily mean that they were two

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Speaker 1: morphologically different, but that their DNA has changed enough that

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Speaker 1: the modern day wolves and this ancestor are different enough

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Speaker 1: to be considered different special I don't know why. I

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Speaker 1: just think everything that's like an ancient species was just enormous. Well,

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Speaker 1: dire wolves, which were a real wolf, and it actually

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Speaker 1: loves here, yeah, and it lives here in exactly lived

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Speaker 1: here in North American. In fact, in the tar pits

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Speaker 1: in l A. We've got a bunch of dire wolf skulls,

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Speaker 1: just like a whole mess of them, because a bunch

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Speaker 1: of dire wolves got stuck in these tar pits. And

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Speaker 1: now we have their skulls and we put them on display.

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Speaker 1: And they aren't Game of Throne style gigantic. They were

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Speaker 1: a little bigger than modern day wolves in a little

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Speaker 1: little like um, a little more robust in certain ways,

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Speaker 1: but they weren't like giant like in Game of Thrones unfortunately.

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Speaker 1: And you didn't have mind control over them necessarily. Well

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Speaker 1: I didn't say that. We don't know. Maybe they did.

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Speaker 1: So it's still like a not known exactly when we

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Speaker 1: started domesticating wolves, but it's it's the more evidence comes in,

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Speaker 1: the earlier it seems to be than we previously thought.

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Speaker 1: So recently, there was a canine skull, which is thought

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Speaker 1: to be one of the early ancestors of modern day

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Speaker 1: dogs that was discovered in a cave in Belgium from

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Speaker 1: over thirty two thousand years ago, which is evidence of

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Speaker 1: an even earlier domestication than we had previously estimated. I

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Speaker 1: think it speaks to the human animal bond because we've

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Speaker 1: i mean, people have loved them for as long as

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Speaker 1: we've known, so I think that makes a lot of

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Speaker 1: sense with the caveat that they might have eaten them, yeah,

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Speaker 1: snatch the probably they probably grabbed a baby or two

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Speaker 1: in their day to you know, you never know exactly,

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Speaker 1: you know, we eat them sometimes, maybe they eat one

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Speaker 1: of our babies and then we're like, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: like let's let's let's talk about this like adult dogs

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Speaker 1: and let's work this out. Call it truce. So current

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Speaker 1: estimates of when the domesticated dogs started to split from

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Speaker 1: its wolf like ancestor is now around twenty seven to

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Speaker 1: forty thousand years ago, and there's a lot of new

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Speaker 1: genetic evidence coming in their sequencing these genomes and trying

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Speaker 1: to place like when it's happened. But that's currently and

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Speaker 1: which is a lot it's a wide range, but that

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Speaker 1: it's still an incredibly long, reallyation ship that we've had

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Speaker 1: with dogs. So one thing I was curious about is

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Speaker 1: like when dogs went from being a domesticated animal to

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Speaker 1: a pet, Like, like that shift in our relationship with

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Speaker 1: the dog, because at first it may have been kind

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Speaker 1: of a practical working relationship. The the early dogs were

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Speaker 1: able to get food and shelter from us. We got

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Speaker 1: basically work and sometimes meat and sometimes pelts, but other

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Speaker 1: practical things hunting help They helped us with hunting as well.

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Speaker 1: But like when we started to actually care about them

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Speaker 1: and consider them different from other animals, I think is

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Speaker 1: a really interesting question. Yeah, I mean that's it's definitely

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Speaker 1: an inflection point in the relationship, right when you go

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Speaker 1: from wanting to seeing each other as a snack, as

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Speaker 1: seeing each other as like a snack in a good way.

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Speaker 1: Is it a good thing? Now you think someone's a snack? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think on Instagram somebody's a snack. It's that's what

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Speaker 1: you want. Yeah. I do wonder sometimes because like I

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Speaker 1: will always tell my dog like I'm going to eat you,

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Speaker 1: and chase around and like I'm going to eat you,

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Speaker 1: and then she like she was she was on my

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Speaker 1: hands sometimes and I wonder if there's still some of this,

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Speaker 1: like latent desire to like eat each other somehow. I

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Speaker 1: have strong feelings about that for sure, because Chloe will nibble,

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Speaker 1: Like if Chloe gets excited to see me, or she

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Speaker 1: starts like lick me, and then she gets really excited,

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Speaker 1: she will nibble my mouth or my nose like she

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Speaker 1: she does she was like to ch ch and then

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Speaker 1: and then So I'm positive that, like if I were

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Speaker 1: to pass away, that she would eat me, because that's

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Speaker 1: how they say that. It starts, you know, as they

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Speaker 1: like lick you, they tried it, and then they get

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Speaker 1: over stimulated and then they just get like overstimulated and

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Speaker 1: eat you. So I'm pretty confident. I feel like you're

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Speaker 1: also all about that, like like you're living will should

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Speaker 1: probably be and my carcass goes to Chloe. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean I think there's worse ways to go. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if that's what she wants to do that time

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Speaker 1: with me. Katie doesn't cookie nibble your feet, well, she

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Speaker 1: bites her feet. She gets angry at her feet. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't call it a nibble, I'd call it an actual

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Speaker 1: bite because she she hates different. She is angry angry

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Speaker 1: at feet, so she'll she'll nip at angry and anger.

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Speaker 1: I don't think she realizes that they're attached to a person.

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Speaker 1: She's just like, what are these animals? And then suddenly

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Speaker 1: she's she's attacking these strange creatures. But yeah, so it is.

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Speaker 1: It is an interesting transition from when we maybe consider

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Speaker 1: dogs as like these are these strange beasts that kind

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Speaker 1: of help us around, but you know, we're just we're

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Speaker 1: just cautiously using them to help us survive, to us

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Speaker 1: actually loving them and doting on them. So um, it's

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Speaker 1: hard to say like when we exactly made that distinction

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Speaker 1: and we could have even cared about them even if

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Speaker 1: we did eat them, Like there there could have been

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Speaker 1: something where we loved them but occasionally had to eat

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Speaker 1: them because you know, in ancient times tears. I think

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Speaker 1: that's probably part of the reason that our relationship with

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Speaker 1: dogs change, is that it's hard to spend so much

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Speaker 1: time socializing with an animal and then make that transition

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Speaker 1: to like, well, you're a burger now. So like about

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Speaker 1: twelve thousand years ago, there's evidence of dog and cat

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Speaker 1: burial rituals. So twelve thousand years ago, dogs and cats

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Speaker 1: started to be buried with humans, and we don't really

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Speaker 1: know why, Like we don't have any concrete evidence why

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Speaker 1: they were buried with the humans, but it does indicate

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Speaker 1: a special relationship that we had with them. And around

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Speaker 1: eight thousand years ago humans started bearing dogs with special

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Speaker 1: high value items, which indicates that they that we cared

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Speaker 1: about how these dogs bodies were handled, and we viewed

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Speaker 1: them as as special as is deserving some kind of

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Speaker 1: special ritual, and we we don't know like why necessarily

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Speaker 1: we felt that way. Well, that also like the fact

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Speaker 1: that they buried them with some of them were buried

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Speaker 1: with high, high valued items and others weren't. Like even

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Speaker 1: back then, dogs could get lucky with who they who

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Speaker 1: picked them or who they picked right like you could

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Speaker 1: you could have be with the chief of the village

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Speaker 1: or the town drunk even back then. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I think that that's I think that's definitely definitely dependent

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Speaker 1: on how much somebody loves their animal. I think it's

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Speaker 1: more dependent on that. I definitely have clients who don't

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Speaker 1: have a ton of money but are willing to spend

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Speaker 1: the money that they have on their pet, and then

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Speaker 1: I have very rich clients who will complain about everything.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, you don't want to be a cat belonging

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Speaker 1: to an Egyptian pharaoh and then get buried alive with

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Speaker 1: the pharaoh. Yeah that sucked. Yeah, well, and we've I've

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Speaker 1: had some requests like that where people will put in

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Speaker 1: their will that they want their pets to be euthanized

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Speaker 1: and buried with them, um when they died. Yeah, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've seen I've seen questions vets. I mean, can they Yes,

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Speaker 1: we can euthanize anything, but I have no no vet

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Speaker 1: worth their salt. Who would youthan I is a perfectly

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Speaker 1: healthy animal, So no, no vet's so I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think what's interesting is that we not only started pampering dogs,

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Speaker 1: but dogs really helped us basically build our human society.

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Speaker 1: So they're kind of multiple theories about how dogs and

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Speaker 1: agrarian society is kind of interacted. Um, Like some theories

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Speaker 1: previously we're saying like, oh, dogs were domesticated due to farming,

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Speaker 1: but obviously the new evidence suggests that we domesticated dogs

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Speaker 1: way before we started farming, because we started farming like

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Speaker 1: ten to twelve thousand years ago, and there is it's

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Speaker 1: more likely that we already had this relationship with dogs.

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Speaker 1: But as we started to farm, we are relationships with

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Speaker 1: dogs started to become even deeper because dogs would help

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Speaker 1: us with farming. So apparently like our habit of farming

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Speaker 1: actually changed dogs DNA. So yes, so we were feeding

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Speaker 1: them starchy table scraps like at least seven thousand years ago.

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Speaker 1: So research into dog DNA shows that dogs started to

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Speaker 1: evolve extra copies of starch digesting genes, which probably helped

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Speaker 1: them digest wheat and millet and other farmed crops that

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Speaker 1: they were getting fed by ancient farmers. Yeah. The habit

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Speaker 1: of feeding doggies table scraps that really they shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: having is very very old, the very old habit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's how they evolved. Maybe that's where they became

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Speaker 1: like the maybe that's where they became omnivores too, true omnivors,

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Speaker 1: because they are the true omnivore. So, are you just

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Speaker 1: helping Chloe evolve every time you eat? Yeah, I'm just

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Speaker 1: taken it back to you know, you're helping her evolve

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Speaker 1: a bigger stomach. Their metabolism and ability to digest, these

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Speaker 1: things have dramatically changed from their wolf ancestors. So wolves

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Speaker 1: aren't nearly as omnivorous. That's right, their carnivores, yes, carnivores.

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Speaker 1: This is yeah, where we can also talk about raw

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Speaker 1: diets for people who want to feed their dogs raw

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Speaker 1: diets and talk about, you know, their dogs being kind

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Speaker 1: of like wolf like and stuff like that. So they're

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Speaker 1: not they're not wolves. They are true omnivores um and

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Speaker 1: raw diets carry increased risk of equal i samonella. So

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Speaker 1: it's not something that I am a big advocate of. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Cookie is listening to me saying this, and she's like

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Speaker 1: slowly approaching and going like, oh, so I can have

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Speaker 1: toast then and spaghetti everything in moderation. She gets one

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Speaker 1: strand of spaghetti every time we have spaghetti, and she's

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Speaker 1: gotta jump for it. She's gotta like, like, I hold

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Speaker 1: up the spaghetti and then she's gotta jump and and

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Speaker 1: she likes loved to snatch it out of the air.

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Speaker 1: She's evolved to be able to eat that spaghetti. It's

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Speaker 1: a magnificent evolution from wolf to a tiny thirteen pound

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Speaker 1: dog that just launches herself at spaghetti. So evidence shows

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Speaker 1: that early farmers highly valued their dogs. So nine thousand

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Speaker 1: years ago, farmers from the near East migrated into Europe

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Speaker 1: and Asia, and they brought their dogs with them. So

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Speaker 1: researchers found that the lineage of these farmers dogs replaced

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Speaker 1: that of the dogs that were originally from those areas.

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Speaker 1: So basically we found that farmers were like, hey, I

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Speaker 1: need to take our dogs with us because they are

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Speaker 1: I love them, They're are best friends, and they help

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Speaker 1: us farm. And then those dogs took over these areas

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Speaker 1: where the farmers migrated into. So there are many ways

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Speaker 1: that dogs likely helped with agriculture. There's hurting, guarding livestock

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Speaker 1: from predators or other humans, rat catching, and general cuteness.

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Speaker 1: You know, Tommy rubs never heard a farm, so uh,

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Speaker 1: don't worry, cat owners, I haven't forgotten you. I do

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Speaker 1: want to talk a little bit about our history with cats.

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Speaker 1: Even though it seems like cats have zero interest in

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Speaker 1: helping us, we actually have a very mutualistic relationship with cats.

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Speaker 1: So over five thousand years ago, cats were already helping

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Speaker 1: farmers deal with their rodent problem. So ancient cat bones

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Speaker 1: and china were examined and they were found to contain

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Speaker 1: isotopes that were associated with eating rats that had eaten

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Speaker 1: domesticated crops. Such as millet. Essentially, they are able to

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Speaker 1: find these compounds that were unique to the farmed crops

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Speaker 1: that the rats would eat, and then when a cat

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Speaker 1: eats the rat, they get some of those in their

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Speaker 1: fossils as well. So we were able to check that

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Speaker 1: these cats ate the rats that ate our crops, which

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Speaker 1: I think is really fascinating. That is wild, That is interesting.

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Speaker 1: That just reminds me of a lot of people get

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Speaker 1: worried because of if rats eat rats that eat rat poison,

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Speaker 1: and then the cat eats the rat, so what happens? Then?

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Speaker 1: The truth is it's usually a rat can't eat enough

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Speaker 1: poison to poison a cat, So typically it's not a

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Speaker 1: concern but something to think about. It's more about it

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Speaker 1: happening on a regular basis, So especially for not necessarily

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Speaker 1: for domesticated cats whose most of their diet is from

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Speaker 1: food we give them, but for wildcats like bobcats and

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Speaker 1: mountain lions who actually can start to get sick because

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Speaker 1: all of their diet is from basically rodents or other

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Speaker 1: small animals, and if they are getting a lot of poison,

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Speaker 1: and say you say you have a bobcat or a

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Speaker 1: mountain lion who mostly subsists on some of these rodents,

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Speaker 1: and these rodents are getting a lot of poison. Then

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Speaker 1: they start it's not necessarily enough to kill them, it

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Speaker 1: just it will make them sick. It will compromise the

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Speaker 1: immune systems, so they start getting sort of like one

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Speaker 1: of the signs is like their coats start to get

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Speaker 1: mange because they have their immune system is like being

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Speaker 1: weakened by them, these poisoned rats and other rodents, and

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Speaker 1: so it's harder for them to fight off the mange.

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Speaker 1: So it's not as much, Like you said, it's probably

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Speaker 1: not as much of a problem for domesticated cats, but

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Speaker 1: for these wildcats, where all of their diet is is

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Speaker 1: rodents and little animals, they find that's interesting. I hadn't

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Speaker 1: thought of wildcats the domestic cats. Yeah, usually one rat

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Speaker 1: is like not enough, but I guess if they're eating

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Speaker 1: them all the time, and and then there there are

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Speaker 1: other kinds of rat poison. Most of them are illegal here,

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Speaker 1: but doesn't mean people don't use them. So yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: bad stuff, bad bad, I mean they're all bad, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: these rats are breaking bad. So basically, these cats were

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Speaker 1: coming to human farms and eating the rats and a

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Speaker 1: lot of these cats reached old age. So they found

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Speaker 1: that the teeth of these cats that signified that they

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Speaker 1: were actually quite old, which meant that they were doing

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Speaker 1: very well around these farms, and farmers weren't like shooing

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Speaker 1: them away or killing them. They were keeping the cats around.

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Speaker 1: And it's thought that humans and cats just were like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you want to come eat these rats, that's cool with me,

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Speaker 1: Like I'll put out a plate of milk for you.

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Speaker 1: You're great, and the cats are like, hey, this is great,

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Speaker 1: like I like eating rats, and we just it worked

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Speaker 1: out for both of us. And cats are actually pretty

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Speaker 1: unique amongst pets and domesticated animals, and that their DNA

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Speaker 1: has barely changed from their wild cat ancestors. So domesticated

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Speaker 1: animals actually often show physical signs of domestication. So like

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Speaker 1: the cute little ear folds that we see on dogs

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Speaker 1: and their smaller teeth is because we've when you're domesticating them,

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Speaker 1: you're selecting for these behavioral traits like less aggression but

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Speaker 1: at the same time less timidity, so the animal will

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Speaker 1: approach you but not bite you, essentially, and that is

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Speaker 1: linked to the adrenal gland development in vitro which just

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Speaker 1: happens to also be tied to saying physical traits like

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Speaker 1: your cartilage, coat, coloring, teeth size, So it's like you will.

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Speaker 1: That's why both a goat and a pig and a

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Speaker 1: dog will have these floppy ears and in like little spots.

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Speaker 1: It's really interesting. But cats don't have that because they're

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Speaker 1: fair a little creatures. Yeah. I don't like to have

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Speaker 1: to keep talking about COVID, but I think it's an

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Speaker 1: important thing, and I think it's something where it's been

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Speaker 1: going on for such a long time that people are

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Speaker 1: starting to get tired and fatigued. But then they're starting

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Speaker 1: to think, like, oh, we don't have to worry about

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00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 1: it anymore, and like, but it hasn't, like it hasn't

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Speaker 1: gone away. So I do want to talk about We

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Speaker 1: had previously talked a little bit about zoonotic diseases. This

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Speaker 1: virus actually it comes from animals. It's spread from animals

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Speaker 1: to humans, and it actually can spread from humans to

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Speaker 1: animals again like two cats, which we talked about last time.

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Speaker 1: But I wanted to get really into some more depth

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Speaker 1: about it and how this virus works, how it's able

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Speaker 1: to go from animal to human and human to animal

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Speaker 1: and what are like why we should be concerned about it,

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Speaker 1: and then other other times where people may kind of

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Speaker 1: want to panic but we shouldn't panic. So I know

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Speaker 1: this is very personal for you guys because you have

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Speaker 1: actually been impacted by COVID in your own life. Do

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00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,959
Speaker 1: you want to talk a little bit about your experience. Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And I think it's a really good thing to start

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Speaker 1: off with, because just like you said, people are getting anxious,

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Speaker 1: people are getting antsy and sort of feeling like, oh,

410
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Speaker 1: maybe we're at a little bit of a lull, but

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Speaker 1: we're we're really not. I mean until I can tell you,

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Speaker 1: until we have a vaccine or we have clear antibody testing,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure how comfortable I will be. I mean, obviously,

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Speaker 1: you we go by the numbers and stuff, but I

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Speaker 1: have been personally impacted, and I'm happy to talk to

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Speaker 1: anybody else who has either been impacted personally or um

417
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Speaker 1: or isn't sure because I will send you a picture

418
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Speaker 1: of my father on the ventilator, I mean, or my mother.

419
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Speaker 1: So basically, on March both of my parents were hospitalized

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Speaker 1: for COVID nineteen and they both had severe bilateral pneumonia.

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Speaker 1: My um it started actually with G I mostly g

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Speaker 1: I signs, so they had like vomiting diarrhea and and

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Speaker 1: the low grade fevers, and they didn't they never had

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Speaker 1: any shortness of breath until my father went into a crisis.

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Speaker 1: When the third ambulance arrived. We actually had to call

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Speaker 1: three ambulances because the first two wouldn't take them, because

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Speaker 1: that's what this virus does. You look okay, You look

428
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: okay until boom, you don't. You have what's called this

429
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: cyto kind storm. UM. Right, Well, there's also something called

430
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: happy hypoxia now, which is basically where people will have

431
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: very low blood oxygen saturation levels where you're not oxygen

432
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 1: eating your blood well, but you don't feel it. You

433
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: feel fine. And normally these are people who would not

434
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 1: be able to function UM and so there's been some

435
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 1: debate about how to treat them UM for example, of

436
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: like high high levels of oxygen without putting them on

437
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: a ventilator UM. So on March though, when the third

438
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: ambulance got there, all of a sudden, my father goes,

439
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: I can't breathe, and he had never complained about breathing before,

440
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: and he was immediately taken um to the emergency room

441
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: and intubated and put on a ventilator. UM. My mom

442
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 1: was hospitalized also duble with bilateral pneumonia, but at that

443
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: time she was they were trying to treat her with

444
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: oxygen and antibiotics and UM. At that time they had

445
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 1: treated them with the hydroxy chloroquine that at that time

446
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: they remin They were really one of the first ones.

447
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 1: So ram de severe was not available to them, covid

448
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: plasma was not available to them, UM, and so my

449
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: mom had started that. And what's so scary is that

450
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 1: this disease just takes so long to really run its course.

451
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: And so my mother was in the ICU and then

452
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 1: she got out of the ICU for like literally twelve hours,

453
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 1: and then she was back in the ICU because she

454
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: was breathing at forty breaths per minute. A normal human

455
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: respiratory rate is somewhere between like twelve to twenty breaths

456
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: per minute, and at forty breaths per minute, I mean,

457
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: you can try it. Try breathing at forty breaths per minute.

458
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 1: It's not sustainable or compatible with life. UM. And so

459
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 1: that's that's a sign of you're desperately trying to get

460
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: oxygen in, but you can't actually get enough oxygen in

461
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: with each breath or exactly exactly, and so your pul socks,

462
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: your blood oxygen saturation level is going to be really low.

463
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 1: I was going to say, you explain the pulse socks,

464
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 1: because getting that was what made you realize that it

465
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: was time to go to the hospital. And that was

466
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: one of the things. So what they had had a

467
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: nurse that was here for them when they were just

468
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: having the g I signs, and every all of us

469
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: just thought this was like a bad you know g

470
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: I like upset or they ate something bad or something

471
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: like that, because it was so early, and everybody kept

472
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: saying stay out of the hospital. And but I asked

473
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: the nurse. At that time, we were just starting to

474
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 1: learn that there were g I signs associated with COVID,

475
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 1: and I said, well, you know, can you grab a

476
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 1: pulse oximeter from one of the drug stores. So a

477
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: pulse oximeter is like a little device that usually you

478
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: put on your finger and it's got a little red

479
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: light and and it measures how much oxygen is in

480
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: your bloodstream essentially, and that should be somewhere between is

481
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: what's considered basically normal um, anything below ninety four, you

482
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: start to kind of get concerned. And they the nurse

483
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: took it and it was low. But the thing is

484
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: they were totally fine. They were not complaining of shortness

485
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: of breath. So I was like, oh, you know, can

486
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: we trust this pulse socks. I don't know. We just

487
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: we didn't know at the time. We had no idea

488
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: about the happy hypoxia. But at the time that my

489
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: mom started breathing at forty breaths per minute, she was

490
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: also like paying bills, like she was like, I feel fine.

491
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,719
Speaker 1: She was fighting being intubated and ventilated. She was starting

492
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: rumors about her own release. She was she was a

493
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: troublemaker the whole time she was in the hospital, Like, yeah,

494
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: I'm going home tomorrow. Like you're breathing it forty times

495
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: a minute. Yeah, this is serious. Yeah, the pulse socks,

496
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: it's like forty dollars, and it is apparently the best

497
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: way from home, like just as as much as your

498
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: temperature to know if it's time to go to the hospital. Yeah. Absolutely,

499
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: So I would definitely recommend everybody having a pulse sox. Yep,

500
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: you can get it usually, like even in like grocery

501
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: stores will often have it in like their drug store section.

502
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: Um Amazon, I think a lot of them are sold.

503
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, but they're starting to come back, or

504
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: they may just take a little longer to get to you.

505
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: But if you can find a pulse ox, I would

506
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: strongly recommend it. But that's where she wasn't happy hypoxy

507
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: make anymore because she was breathing at forty breasts per minute,

508
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: which is not sustainable. Do we have any theories on

509
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: how you're having the hypoxy and not having any physical

510
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: or are people having cognitive symptoms because usually with hypoxy

511
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: you're you're you're cognitive functioning suffers. But like, is it

512
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: how is it such a I guess invisible condition. Yeah,

513
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: it's easy. I actually I'm not really sure if we

514
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: know the mechanism, and and it's very rare. Apparently it

515
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: does happen rarely in other diseases. But I mean, this

516
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: is what was so shocking, because I was like, there's

517
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: no way that you know, my dad could have a

518
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: pulse ox of eighty seven and be you know, not

519
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: complaining of shortness of breath or not having any coughing

520
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: or breathing difficulty or cognitive impairment or anything else like that.

521
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: When you talk about cognitive impairment and COVID, I mean,

522
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: so we know now that COVID can cause all kinds

523
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: of weird clotting abnormality. Is so strokes or sudden strokes

524
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: are certainly one of the things that they see as well.

525
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: But thank god that didn't that didn't happen in my parents.

526
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: But I don't think we really know the mechanism by

527
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: which and I'm not sure, I mean, I could be wrong,

528
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: but why people have such low blood oxygen levels but

529
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: um feel just fine or breathe at a normal breathing rate.

530
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: And that's the happy hype poxia where they look totally normal.

531
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: They feel fine in the moment, but then that can

532
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: lead to a sudden crisis. So it's not not that

533
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: like you can continue functioning with hypoxy and be okay,

534
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: like you will eventually have a crisis where you need

535
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: to be hospitals. Yes, I think what they find also

536
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: the happy hypoxi, is that they mostly are able to

537
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: breathe through like other areas of their lungs that are

538
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: not affected. But but we but that's we don't really

539
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: know why. So yes, and then all of a sudden,

540
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: you can have what's called the cytokine storm. Cytokines are

541
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: inflammatory mediators that are part of your immune system. But

542
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: what happens is when you have this massive inflammatory response

543
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: is actually your body's response to the virus rather than

544
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: the virus itself at that point, that is causing all

545
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: that harm um to your lungs and causing this bilateral

546
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: pneumonia and just like fluid and pus and infection um

547
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,959
Speaker 1: and inflammation to fill up your lungs and then lungs

548
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: become fibrotic, which a bus bay basically like scar tissue. UM.

549
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: So it's really hard to breathe through. So my dad

550
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: was on the ventilator for twenty days, so he was

551
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: actually intubated all twenty days, which is highly highly unusual.

552
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: My mom was on the ventilator for nine days. It

553
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: was the most excruciating time of my life for sure.

554
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: I just all of a sudden felt like I had

555
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: no parents and I mean they run a business together,

556
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: and um, yeah, it was was really excruciating. But what

557
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:31,719
Speaker 1: Lisa did and what she mobilized with her network of

558
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: friends and doctors that are experts, but like you know,

559
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: she knew everything about the vet or learned everything about

560
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: the ventilator from a veterinarian, and like, you know, there

561
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: was she she just remained a step ahead of the

562
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: doctors and was staying on top of them in a

563
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: way that like, you know, for me, it was just

564
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: nothing but a powerless situation. And um, she had the

565
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: ability to talk to them, you know, in the language

566
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: of medicine. That um, I mean, part of it was

567
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: probably driving herself crazy because she knew so much about it,

568
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: but like it was, it was able to make recommendations

569
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: and to really know where they were at all times.

570
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: That like, it just made me feel all the more

571
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: for people whose families in this situation and doesn't have

572
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: that resource, you know. And I actually had a friend,

573
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: I actually had a friend who's who lost his father

574
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: to it. But like Lisa was amazing in shepherding them

575
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: through the process. Also, yeah, I think that's one of

576
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: the scary things about this is that because it's not

577
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: we don't fully understand it, it's you kind of have

578
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: to be your own advocate if you're someone you love

579
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: is showing symptoms of it, because especially in areas where

580
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: hospitals are overwhelmed you may not get attention right away

581
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: because like there's this effort to like, Okay, we need

582
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: to kind of triage like who you know, we're we're

583
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: giving aid to so, and like unless you really know

584
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: like what is happening, it's hard to necessarily say like, oh, well,

585
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: you know I have I have hypoxia, but the walking

586
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: kind of hypoxia, Like you're not You're not going to

587
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: know that as someone who who has it directly. So yeah,

588
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: it's really or to be in this situation because it

589
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: happens so because the crisis happens so quickly, which is

590
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 1: I think was the difference between I mean, I guess

591
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: my mom was always a little bit more stable than

592
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:30,720
Speaker 1: my dad, and for some reason they're finding it affects

593
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: men more than women. But um, but my mom was

594
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: in the place where they said, you know, okay, it's

595
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 1: time to intbate you. Let's do this before it gets

596
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: to be an ultimate crisis, Like you're in crisis now.

597
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: You cannot disdain like this, but let's in debate and

598
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: ventilate you before becomes an absolute crisis. And so that's

599
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:50,879
Speaker 1: why you know, she was on the ventilator for nine

600
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: days and he was on for twenty and for being

601
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: as unlucky as humanly possible that both of her parents

602
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 1: were on the ventilator. It is miraculous that they both

603
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: got off, you know, knowing what we know and what

604
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: the survivability rates are, it's it's really crazy. So so

605
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: thank god. Right now, my mom is my mom. I

606
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: picked her up from the hospital and she came home

607
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: and she recovered. Um, she's pretty. She's recovering still, but

608
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: she's I'm pretty recovering pretty uneventfully. She had like a

609
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: little bit of mild vertigo, but um, you know, it

610
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: took a while. She's still a little tired, but she's

611
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: doing all the right things. She's eating, she's sleeping, she's

612
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 1: playing cards online now with her friends. That's the other

613
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: question is a lot of people ask me how I

614
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 1: thought that they got it, um, and we're pretty confident

615
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: that they got it from playing cards in their community.

616
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: Somebody that she played cards with did test positive. Which

617
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: is why I can't emphasize how important testing is, because

618
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 1: if I knew that she had been playing cards with

619
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 1: somebody would test it positive, but would have sent her

620
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: to the hospital a lot sooner. And that day that

621
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 1: she came into contact with it. I very strangely wound

622
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: up here. I was doing shows down here in Miami,

623
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: and against Lisa's doctor's orders, her mom snuck a Jewish

624
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 1: mom kiss in on my head the day that she

625
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: contracted it. So I literally said to them, I was like,

626
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: you guys, I was. I was mad at Richie for coming,

627
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: and I was like, you guys, stay away from each other.

628
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,240
Speaker 1: Don't touch each other, like really, And so I couldn't

629
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 1: kick said, your mom kissed me on the head. And

630
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: she said it to me too, She was like, I

631
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 1: kissed Richie on the head. I was like, okay, whatever.

632
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: So but he didn't get infected. And that's also the

633
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 1: other incredible thing is or he's this asymptomatic carrier. We

634
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: will we don't know right now. But so my mom's home,

635
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: my dad. After forty days in the hospital, Um was

636
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 1: transferred to a really intense rehab where he's learning to

637
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: walk again. And yeah, he had a stomach. And I

638
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: think that's something that people may not realize is it's

639
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: not something it's not and I hate to put it

640
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: this way, but it's like it's not a binary where

641
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: you live or you die. Um totally, and because I

642
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: think that it when you don't, when you don't see like,

643
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: this is something that not only is the recovery and

644
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry that your dad is going through this

645
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: and that your mom had to go through this, but

646
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: the recovery can be very long, very difficult, and it's

647
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: not it's it's it can also have like these really

648
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: long term effects for some people. So it's not something

649
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, well, only occasionally you either survive

650
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 1: or or you die, and then it's only very rare

651
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: that someone um dies from It's like, well no, you know,

652
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: first of all, people are dying from it. But also

653
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: if you survive, that's not that's not like a walk

654
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: in the park, that is it. That can be extremely difficult,

655
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 1: yeaciating and really hard. Yeah, I mean we were. I

656
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 1: was always told, like, you know, your dad's going to rehab.

657
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: Now the hard part starts, you know, So I mean,

658
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: I'm I'm happy to so basically like he couldn't he

659
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 1: couldn't pee on his own because when you have a

660
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: year nary catheter in and you get so weak. He

661
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 1: was a hundred and thirteen pounds. I mean, he lost

662
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 1: so much weight from being so critical, and so the

663
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: urinary capeter and when you're when that happens, your bladder

664
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: just sort of goes to sleep and it's like, Okay,

665
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 1: I don't need to work on my own. Plus all

666
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: the weakness and the decimation. So for a month, over

667
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: a month probably he couldn't urinate on his own. So

668
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 1: he had an indwelling catheter like a catheter that just

669
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: stayed put. And then when they tried to remove that,

670
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: he couldn't urinate on his own. And so he was

671
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 1: being he had a urinary catheter. For every four hours

672
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: he had to be catheterized. So I mean, just disrupts

673
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 1: your sleep cycle, your healing cycle. So every four hours

674
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: he was being catheterized. Now he's being on his own,

675
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: which is amazing, which were so happy about. Um. But

676
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: he also had a great three bedsore, which is like excruciating.

677
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: And then you have he couldn't move himself, so he

678
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: had to be turned every two hours. Now he can

679
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: move himself, thank god, and his bedsore is healing, um,

680
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: just miraculously quickly. Um. And then um, you know he

681
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,879
Speaker 1: was golfing the bet he wasn't. He was a very

682
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: active guy. He was golfing the best golf games of

683
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: his life. And now he can't write. He can bear.

684
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: He mean, he just took a hundred steps for the

685
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 1: first time, you know, on his own. So it's definitely

686
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: gonna be life changing. But you know, nothing is he's

687
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 1: had multiple ct s m R. I think, God, he

688
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: hasn't had any strokes or any of those bascular anomalies

689
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: or anything else like that. He is a complete He

690
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: turned seventy three years old. Um, like a couple of

691
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:24,280
Speaker 1: days after he was discharged to rehab, which was amazing. UM.

692
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: If I could put in a very shameless plug that

693
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: if anybody is in the mood for a good happy

694
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: cry um. Just so coincidentally, we happened to be recording

695
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: and uh talking about it for the first time on

696
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,919
Speaker 1: our podcast about because there was like two weeks where

697
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: they were they were vented and we just weren't talking

698
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: about it. So probably not our best podcast, but U

699
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: And during this episode with marking our Territory, her mom

700
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 1: called and Lisa was able to able to talk to

701
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 1: her for the first time in like ten days. She

702
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: was a debated. She actually called in the middle of

703
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: the podect she got off the vent and I mean

704
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: that was a moment just happened to catch that on. Yeah,

705
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: like you don't know if you're getting I mean I would,

706
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 1: I would definitely cry if I listened to that, and

707
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 1: I have I'm happy to send anybody the videos. So

708
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 1: I took a video and my dad because you know,

709
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: we couldn't see him either, I couldn't be there or

710
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 1: see him. No, that's one of the worst parts. I mean,

711
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: like I don't want to say it's the worst part,

712
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 1: because everything is the worst part. Everything is the worst,

713
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: but it is just such a it's like such an

714
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 1: awful thing that you can't you can't be with them

715
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 1: because it is a virus. And yeah, you yeah, I

716
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 1: just I knew if right, and I knew that as

717
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: hard as it was that if I went there and

718
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: I got infected, who would advocate? Who would do all

719
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: the things that I was doing and making sure that

720
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: you know, all of that was happening. Um, yeah, I

721
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 1: think it's important. And it's not not just to like

722
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 1: I don't want to just like scare people or terrify people,

723
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: but like maybe be a little bit just a little

724
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: more awareness that this is still going on and it's

725
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: the virus didn't just like get bored and go away

726
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 1: like after, you know, because we don't have we we

727
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 1: have like there there's been some progress made on more ppe,

728
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: like some progress made on increasing hospital capacity, but there's

729
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,240
Speaker 1: we have really kind of wasted a lot of time,

730
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 1: not like we haven't really gotten like contact tracing down.

731
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 1: We don't have uh that, Like, we haven't really improved

732
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: therapies that much, like treatments that much, and we certainly

733
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: are not close to a vaccine yet, like that is

734
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 1: going to take until at least, so it's I think, yeah,

735
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: it is. I am concerned that I totally understand the

736
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 1: fatigue I'm feeling it. I miss people so much right now.

737
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 1: I like I want nothing more than to see my

738
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 1: friends and family and hug them. But it it's still

739
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,919
Speaker 1: impacting people, it is, you know, like and like think

740
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: about you know, I'm so sorry that you guys have

741
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 1: had to go through this, but I'm so happy to

742
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: hear that your parents are recovering. But yeah, thank god,

743
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,879
Speaker 1: Like your parents had access to ventilators. And that went

744
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 1: through my mind when we were when the doctor was saying, like,

745
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: let's get her on a ventilator, was like, oh, well,

746
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 1: if we don't do it today, then we might she

747
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 1: might not have one tomorrow, because that was another thing

748
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: like that's so it was so unbelievably scary. Um. So yeah,

749
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: it's still very real, and we still have absolutely no

750
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 1: good solutions to treatment, to tracking, to um vaccines to tracing.

751
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 1: I mean we have We're really, I think, in no

752
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: better position than we were a month. Not much, not really.

753
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 1: It's just abstract until it's on your doorstep. Yeah, And

754
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: I think it's important to hear that. It's important to

755
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 1: hear these stories because when you go outside, just wear

756
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: a mask. It's such a simple thing to do, and

757
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: it protects other people. It's not a replacement for social distancing,

758
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 1: but certainly it helps. I feel like your listeners are

759
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: pretty smart and might be telling that is there anyway

760
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: we can hijack like Alex Jones's feed and get this

761
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,840
Speaker 1: message out there. I think my listeners are a really

762
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: wonderful bunch, So I hope I don't come across as

763
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: like I'm lecturing you guys, but I think like it

764
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,359
Speaker 1: is good for those of you out there who are

765
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 1: like talking to people and trying to get people, you know,

766
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 1: to understand, like if you want to share this story,

767
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: it's like so that you have like, look, this is

768
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: what is happening. It's not abstract. Another thing I wanted

769
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:52,879
Speaker 1: to talk about is there's a lot of confusion and

770
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:58,839
Speaker 1: misinformation about coronavirus and pets and animals. And Lisa, you

771
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 1: are not only a veterinary but you you have you

772
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:07,240
Speaker 1: actually studied viruses, right, actually studied coronavirus and veterinary school.

773
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: I my my research in veterinary school was coronavirus as

774
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 1: sorry was avian coronavirus as a model for stars and

775
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,760
Speaker 1: people and stars is also another one of those corona

776
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: respiratory coronaviruses and people that we had that outbreak of.

777
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 1: I think though that affected like I mean not even

778
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: was it eight thousand people? Eight hundred people? And it

779
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: was eight hundred people actually, um, and now we've just

780
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: infected over over a hundred thousands have died from coronavirus

781
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: as of you know, yesterday. So um. Yeah. So So

782
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: that was my research was all about coronaviruses and and

783
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,760
Speaker 1: every species has their own UM and it can manifest

784
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: differently in avians or birds. With what I was working with,

785
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:52,839
Speaker 1: it was a respiratory virus, which is why we used

786
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: it as a model for stars and people and cats.

787
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: Coronavirus can mutate and turn into actually another pretty deadly

788
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: like g I or systemic disease UM and in dogs

789
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: also it can be like a mild g I or

790
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: respiratory disease as well, but usually it's mild and we

791
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: don't even worry about it. So and you know, coronavirus

792
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: is also responsible for most of the colds that we have.

793
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: There's just so many different versions of it, so um,

794
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 1: each coronavirus is almost like a different virus. Really, I

795
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,399
Speaker 1: have a question that I never thought of. Has there

796
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: ever been like an epidemic that specifically hit like dogs

797
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: and cats and um, there there are usually we tend

798
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 1: to think about that in terms of like our production animals,

799
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 1: so food animals, so um, there are like food animal

800
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 1: viruses that can spread throughout. So one of the concerns,

801
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: one of the big concerns actually is that pigs um

802
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: have the same receptors that we do, these ACE two receptors,

803
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: which I think we're going to get there probably um,

804
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: but but pigs, if pigs were to get infected with

805
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,240
Speaker 1: the stars O V to the coronavirus, the COVID nineteen

806
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:06,720
Speaker 1: that we're seeing now, that would be devastating economically and

807
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: obviously to our food chain supply, and those would be

808
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: are the most devastating types of viruses. But yeah, there

809
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 1: are so just so just so people know. So like

810
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: when you have for a lot of viruses, the reason

811
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: of virus isn't just like universal. So like a virus

812
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:28,839
Speaker 1: that a uh, say, like a deer can get isn't

813
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: necessarily one that a human can get. Is because viruses

814
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 1: have these surface proteins that bind to surface receptors on

815
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: your cells, and that basically is like a key that

816
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 1: gets them access to your cell. So like sometimes the

817
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: virus surface receptors can mutate to be able to fit

818
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 1: onto surface receptors of a different species of animal. But

819
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 1: in this case, we actually share the same receptors right

820
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: with the and it's called the ACE receptor right yea,

821
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: the ACE too receptor yep, So we have basically we

822
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: have the same shape lock on the surface of ourselves.

823
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: In this like the specific surface receptor the stars cove

824
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: two is not new, it's evolved, it's um it's been

825
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 1: Like I said, bats and pengulins, and then you have

826
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: this what's called spill over, which is where the virus

827
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 1: mutates from them where they may not necessarily even become

828
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 1: sick from it, and then UM infects us and UM

829
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 1: and that happens again because of the that like lock

830
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 1: and key combo that you were talking about. UM. But so, yeah,

831
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: the bottom line is where nobody is really sure still

832
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: where I mean, some people had theorized it was from

833
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,399
Speaker 1: the meat markets in China. Obviously we know what originated there,

834
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:49,760
Speaker 1: but because pegulin is such a delicacy in China, that's

835
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 1: that was one thought. So we do know that this

836
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: version of coronavirus can go from a human to a feeline.

837
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,399
Speaker 1: So we know that the tiger is the bronx zoo

838
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 1: got it from a zookeeper that actually had coronavirus, and

839
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: where there's evidence that also like house cats can get it.

840
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: So and that in this case it's not that the

841
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 1: virus is necessarily mutating to be able to infect the cats.

842
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 1: It's that we share the same receptor, right yep. So

843
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 1: we've we've known since you know, we've known for a

844
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 1: little while that cats, ferrets or minx, which are part

845
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: of the same family UM. Pigs and non human primates

846
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 1: have a high density of these ACE two receptors UM

847
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 1: and so, but there have been reports of dogs being

848
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: infected as well, but cats especially and ferrets and pigs

849
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: are the ones who are definitely the most concerned about

850
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: having the same receptors where UM. These viruses will attach

851
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:53,399
Speaker 1: their little surface proteins to the cells of the ACE

852
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 1: two membrane and then inject their genetic material, which is

853
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 1: I mean basically all viruses are are their little parasitic

854
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: packages of DNA or RNA. UM coronavirus happens to be

855
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: an RNA. The problem with the RNA virus is that

856
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: it they're constantly mutating and changing or making mistakes in

857
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 1: their their their sequence and so that's what makes it

858
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: so hard to actually make a vaccine against UM. But anyway,

859
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: so what happens is, yeah, they attached to these A

860
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 1: S two receptors and then UM they inject their DNA

861
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: or their RNA, their little genetic material and then tells

862
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: the cell to make more virus. And that's where you

863
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 1: get replication, and that's where you become emphecticist, and that's

864
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: where you get disease. So yeah, so those animals for sure,

865
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: we've been concerned about. Although even a few dogs we

866
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: know have the A S two receptors but lower level

867
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 1: have been infected as well. So right, So, And it's

868
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: just it's kind of like a game of chance where

869
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: if you have a bunch of AASE receptors, you're more

870
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,399
Speaker 1: likely to get the virus because it has basically it's

871
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 1: like this little this little thing that has like a

872
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 1: little key and it's trying all the locks, and like

873
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 1: if you have a bunch of the locks as compatible

874
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: with this the proteins that are on the on the virus,

875
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 1: then you're more likely to get infectation. You two are

876
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: doing a great job of describing this, because so far

877
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: I'm following and I got nothing. I'm your for Coronavirus

878
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:24,359
Speaker 1: for Dummies. Keep it up. Can we write that book

879
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: by the time Coronavirus for Dummies? Yeah, that book? But yeah,

880
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 1: I think And then a natural question that I think

881
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 1: a lot of people have is, well, then I could

882
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 1: get coronavirus from like a cat. And I think this

883
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: is a question that deserves a lot of nuance because

884
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 1: I certainly don't want people to panic and like get

885
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 1: rid of their cat. I don't think. I don't think

886
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 1: any of my listeners would do that. I think all

887
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: of my listeners are like I write or die with

888
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 1: my cat. But you know, I think that there is.

889
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: It's one of those things where we want to understand.

890
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:08,439
Speaker 1: We want to understand it fully so that we can

891
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: be careful and cautious, but not given to like panic

892
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: and fear. The CDC has been saying for a really

893
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: long time that there has been no evidence of animal

894
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: to human transition UM. There have been since very recently,

895
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: very questionable reports of mink farms farmers getting it from

896
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 1: minx on their farm in Netherland. Now, again, like I said,

897
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 1: these are questionable reports, it's really hard to know what

898
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: you have to Yeah, mink farmers, Yeah, you do have

899
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,839
Speaker 1: to sequence the virus from the animal and the human

900
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 1: and see if it's like the same exact sequence. It's

901
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 1: really hard to know to say if that's actually what

902
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 1: happened or not. That's the only reports I've seen of

903
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 1: potential human to animal transition trans transmission UM. But even

904
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:01,240
Speaker 1: though the CDC says that there is no UM evidence

905
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: of that happening, doesn't mean that it can't happen. So

906
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 1: far though we haven't seen it. UM. But one of

907
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: the biggest things is and where I don't we don't

908
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 1: want people to panic is obviously like it's been a

909
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: very popular time for people to be adopting animals because

910
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 1: we're home and they're foster and they're adopting UM. And

911
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 1: the best guidance I think I can give is there's

912
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 1: a blog I really love called Worms and Germs Blog UM.

913
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 1: It's by a public health veterinarian in Canada, and UM

914
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: he did a whole post about this actually where he said,

915
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 1: you know, should I He's getting the same questions people saying,

916
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 1: should I be nervous about adopting cats, you know from

917
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 1: uh from a shelter, And the answer is he wasn't

918
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 1: worried about it. He actually just got himself a kitten

919
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:45,319
Speaker 1: from a shelter. UM. And so the risk is extremely,

920
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: extremely extremely low. There's never no risk. Again, there's been

921
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: no case reports that I am aware of today, and

922
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: things always change, but as of today, there are no

923
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 1: case reports that I am aware of that say that

924
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 1: cats or dogs have transmitted it to humans. UM. You know,

925
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 1: it's really just about using good hygiene and UM. As

926
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: long as the shelter or wherever you get your pet from,

927
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: is using good hygiene, washing hands, making sure that they

928
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 1: don't kiss you, especially if you feel sick. The people

929
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:16,879
Speaker 1: who work at the vet kissing you or the cat

930
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: kissing you, um, well both. I mean you don't want

931
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 1: like mouth to mouth contacent because the rest, because the

932
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 1: virus is spread through respiratory secretions, if they're going to

933
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:28,280
Speaker 1: get it, that's how they're gonna So that's like, for example,

934
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:30,879
Speaker 1: what Richie was referring to when we when I got

935
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 1: my mother out of the hospital, we still quarantined her

936
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,479
Speaker 1: for we isolated from her for two weeks. I would

937
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 1: just bring her meals in like a mask and gloves. Um.

938
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 1: But I knew, even though there was and at the

939
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: time even less evidence that dogs could get it, I

940
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,359
Speaker 1: knew that, Like I didn't want Chloe licking my mom.

941
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 1: If she saw my mom should probably lick her and

942
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 1: then she'd lick my face. And if that's if there's

943
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: gonna be any transmission there, even though it's so low level,

944
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 1: I just didn't why take that chance. So as long

945
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,879
Speaker 1: as the shelter is using proper hygiene and precautions, kind

946
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,760
Speaker 1: of just like at the grocery store. Then the level

947
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:08,359
Speaker 1: the transmission is so so so low, And if Dr

948
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: Scott Weis can do it, certainly anybody can do it.

949
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,359
Speaker 1: So definitely reading his blog is a great take on that,

950
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 1: and so up to dating conversation also, Um so yeah,

951
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 1: so the risk is so so so low. Yeah, so

952
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: that's good news for everyone considering adopting an animal, I think.

953
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, just like I guess, use common

954
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: sense in the same way that you when you go

955
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 1: get groceries, like you're exposing yourself to a new environment,

956
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 1: which means like an environment that could have had contact

957
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 1: with the virus. And then just use you know, like

958
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,240
Speaker 1: kind of I don't mean don't spray your cat down

959
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: with like alcohol or anything hand sanitizer, but yeah, I

960
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 1: mean maybe like one thing you could do is just

961
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 1: maybe don't give your new pet like mouth kisses for

962
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 1: the first like week or two. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, and

963
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:56,920
Speaker 1: just make sure that before and after you have you

964
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 1: have contact with them, you just wash your hands and

965
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 1: use good hygiene and and um that should be it.

966
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: And you know what, if instant carts started living delivering cats,

967
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 1: also instat cats, I'll set them up. You knock them down.

968
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 1: Come on, just getting kittens sight unseen dropped all of

969
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:19,479
Speaker 1: your door. I guess the related question would be, so,

970
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 1: if you're already a pet owner, how can you protect

971
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 1: your pets and yourself from coronavirus? So, like, I have

972
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 1: a dog, and how I've been thinking about it is

973
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 1: my dog is like another roommate who makes me scratch

974
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: your butt? Yeah, totally. I I mean I think looking

975
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 1: at them as another roommate is an incredible way to

976
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: do it because you're the same rules apply as socially distancing,

977
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 1: So you know, not letting your pets right now if

978
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 1: you if you don't know that the other pet is

979
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 1: healthy or that they live in a healthy household. Just

980
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:55,360
Speaker 1: social distancing six ft from other people and other pets

981
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:58,239
Speaker 1: and making sure you wash your hands before and after

982
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 1: you touch them, you know, not letting random pets kiss

983
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: your face or kiss your your pet. And then the

984
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 1: other thing you can do is also um, you can

985
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 1: wipe them down just like with a wet cloth or

986
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 1: there are like doggie wipes. So don't use hand don't

987
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 1: use hand sanitizer. Hand sanitizer probably what my hand sanitizers

988
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 1: mostly alcohol like probably one you know it won't kill

989
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: a pet. But obviously no, no skinner wipes. No, yeah, skinners,

990
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 1: it's not what you want to do. And obviously we

991
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 1: have to keep them clean on because they look there.

992
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 1: They look their fur too, so anything you put on

993
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: their fur, they're probably getting there. Definitely not what I

994
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 1: would recommend it all for sure, but um, they coronavirus

995
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 1: is very The one good thing about coronasavirus is it

996
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 1: actually is pretty easy to kill in the environment. It

997
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 1: has this lipid layer that is affected by That's why

998
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 1: alcohol works. It breaks up its lipid layer and and

999
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 1: and put polkes holes, right, yeah, and so so that's

1000
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 1: what I was gonna say. So soap even like dawn

1001
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 1: dish to churgent is great, like I would you what

1002
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 1: you can do? I mean, john is very safe. We

1003
00:56:57,239 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 1: use it a lot in like enemas even like um

1004
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 1: it's a barrier every time don gets mentioned in our household.

1005
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 1: Do you think of it as an enema? You you're

1006
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 1: just doing dishes and she's like, you know that's used

1007
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 1: in enemas, right, so like so, so not that you

1008
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 1: need to do what I do, think, um, but like

1009
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: Chloe rolls in like goose poop, every once in a while,

1010
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 1: and if I can't, if I don't have time to

1011
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 1: get her in a bath, I will take like some

1012
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 1: wet paper towel and and wet it down with some

1013
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 1: Don dish detergent and just like wipe her fur down

1014
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 1: and just wipe her down because it's so safe. And

1015
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 1: if it little stays on there, that's just fine. But yeah,

1016
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 1: you kind of like it up, then you water it

1017
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 1: down with a little bit of water, right, yeah, oh

1018
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: totally yeah, yeah, And that's because of the poop, not coronavirus.

1019
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 1: One of one of the record. We don't think there's

1020
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 1: virus on the poop. A vetinarian I knew, actually a

1021
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 1: mobile a house call vetinarian I knew actually was making

1022
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 1: um like packs because she couldn't find hand sanitizer. She

1023
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: was actually creating these little hands I mean essentially hand

1024
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 1: sanitizing cocks with in a zip block bag. She take

1025
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: like sweares of wet paper towel and put in like

1026
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 1: a little Dawn dish detergent, and then in between whatever

1027
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: she needed when she felt like she needed to clean

1028
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 1: her hands, she would walk white with the Don dish detergent.

1029
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:15,439
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a it's a really it is really

1030
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 1: susceptible to detergents and um and so so it's another

1031
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 1: yeah really great again ye yeah, so that is safe

1032
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 1: if you do want to give your pets a path,

1033
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 1: But any bath, any anything should just wiping them down

1034
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 1: should help. So the general is just everybody has made

1035
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 1: out of poison, so touch anybody, yeah danger. So yeah,

1036
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 1: we were just talking about staying safe from coronavirus and

1037
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: how we can stay safe, how we can keep our

1038
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 1: pets safe and like keep everybody safe, but also just

1039
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 1: like how to because during lockdown, it's not just necessarily

1040
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 1: coronavirus that we have to worry about. It's the change

1041
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 1: to our lives and our pets lives and how it's

1042
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:16,959
Speaker 1: affecting us mentally and physically. So I wanted to ask

1043
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:20,920
Speaker 1: you a few questions Lisa, as a vet about what

1044
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 1: this means for caring for our pets. So I think

1045
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: one thing that people may be wondering is like can

1046
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 1: I still take my pet to the vets? So, like,

1047
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 1: under what circumstances should I go take my pet to

1048
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: the vet? Can I still do it? And what is

1049
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 1: your advice as a veterinarian? Yeah, That's a really good

1050
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 1: question as far as specifically going to the veterinarians. So

1051
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 1: know that your veterinarians protocols have probably changed. Um. Most

1052
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 1: veterinarians that I know are now taking pets outside of

1053
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 1: the building, not allowing out owners to come in, just

1054
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: like a human hospital. UM, So they take their pet

1055
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 1: from outside the door. You fill out of form, or

1056
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 1: you do a triage, or you call ahead and see

1057
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 1: what your veterinarians protocols are. Usually a technician will take

1058
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:07,919
Speaker 1: the animal inside and then a veterinarian will call you

1059
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 1: or FaceTime you while they're with your pets, so you

1060
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:12,440
Speaker 1: can still be a part of the exam and everything

1061
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 1: and know what's going on and stuff like that. Obviously,

1062
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:17,919
Speaker 1: you don't want to go for just anything right now,

1063
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 1: you know. I I am an advocate of like you know,

1064
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 1: if it's something that can be put off, it may

1065
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: be worth putting off. There are a lot of telehealth

1066
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 1: services that are popping up now. I'm actually doing telehealth

1067
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 1: myself UM on my website vets in the city dot com.

1068
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 1: So I've got to I've got to tell a health

1069
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 1: service where people want to know is this an emergency?

1070
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 1: Is this not an emergency, and that's really, um the

1071
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 1: biggest thing, UM that that people want to know right now,

1072
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 1: especially in a time where they may not want to

1073
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 1: leave their house. Call first and find out and I

1074
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 1: will tell You'll tell you whether you need to come in.

1075
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 1: Most veterinarians that I know are so unbelievably busy. They're

1076
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 1: totally and sung heroes. Obviously I'm not doing it. I'm

1077
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 1: here taking care of my parents, but they are completely

1078
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 1: unsung heroes to me because just just at home taking

1079
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 1: care of your really, that's all. I will help you

1080
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 1: triage though. But um, but they're so busy right now

1081
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 1: because so number one, so many people are getting pets

1082
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 1: and then they're just home all day staring at them.

1083
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 1: So I think that you know, they see things and

1084
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 1: they're able to catch things. And but yeah, I mean

1085
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 1: there is some there is some phenomenon happening now because

1086
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 1: I cannot tell you how busy all of my friends

1087
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 1: are in vetinary practices. So it's always good to call

1088
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 1: ahead and see what your particular veterinarians protocol is, UM

1089
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 1: and how that will be. But veterinarians are certainly considered

1090
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 1: essential workers and they are open now and um and working,

1091
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 1: so you can't take as an example, cookie ate a

1092
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 1: muffin wrapper that was made out of paper, and I

1093
01:01:55,840 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 1: panicked for like fifteen minutes, and then I checked out, Okay,

1094
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 1: is this actually an emergency? Do I have to take

1095
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 1: her in? And it turns out, as long as they

1096
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 1: are eating and pooping normally, paper is generally not too

1097
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 1: much of a problem. So yeah, but that's where you

1098
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 1: could have come to me too and said, you know,

1099
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:16,080
Speaker 1: I would have said, like, yeah, as long as she's

1100
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 1: not vomiting and she continues usually probably the paper she

1101
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 1: would digest, And I I did ask you. I asked

1102
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:24,480
Speaker 1: you because like I happened to be that was when

1103
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 1: we were recording the podcast, and I was like, like,

1104
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 1: this is okay, right, and I have a free consultation

1105
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 1: because any time for you, Katie. That's also one of

1106
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:37,480
Speaker 1: those questions that Lisa will just refer to me on occasion,

1107
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 1: just to see if I've been paying attention to her

1108
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:42,439
Speaker 1: for the last five and a half years. But our

1109
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: podcast was born out of comedians calling me to ask

1110
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 1: Lisa stupid questions of like so I think I had

1111
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 1: three weed gummy bears and I can only find one Lisa,

1112
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 1: So you're you're the fixer for people who need embarrassing

1113
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:04,880
Speaker 1: pet Yeah. Yeah, and then we just put them on

1114
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:10,680
Speaker 1: the air instead. So another question I have this is

1115
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 1: actually for both of you, is right now, it's like

1116
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 1: not only us that needs more stimulation, it's our dogs

1117
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 1: and cats, right because we can't take our dogs to

1118
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:23,640
Speaker 1: the dog park. We you know, there's a lot less

1119
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:26,880
Speaker 1: social interaction with the dogs in their home with us

1120
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 1: a lot of the time. So like, what what are

1121
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 1: you guys doing to keep Chloe entertained and like to

1122
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: keep yourselves entertained as well. Yeah, that's a really good question.

1123
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:39,200
Speaker 1: So one of the things that I actually did do,

1124
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 1: which nobody loved because I spent too much money on it,

1125
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:44,160
Speaker 1: But I'm obsessed with her weight and a lot of

1126
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 1: people talk about like the COVID nineteen you know, whatever

1127
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 1: you want to call it, um And that's true for

1128
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:51,160
Speaker 1: pets because it is hard to stimulate them, and it's

1129
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 1: so important that they're stimulated both mentally and physically, especially

1130
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 1: because like she's not seeing her doggy friends now and stuff.

1131
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 1: So I actually bought her scale off Amazon because she's

1132
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 1: for most dogs, for small dogs like Cookie, you can

1133
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 1: just pick up. You can get onto a human scale,

1134
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:09,560
Speaker 1: you can hold her, get off way yourself and subtract.

1135
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 1: I find that actually, so she's a seventy two point

1136
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 1: eight pound dog is like really long and really difficult

1137
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:20,120
Speaker 1: to pick up. So for her that was just not

1138
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 1: an option. I needed like a large dog scale. For

1139
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 1: most dogs, that's not the case. Most dogs will like

1140
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 1: tolerate being picked up. But I don't know what was

1141
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 1: the what was the final verdict? Did she gain weight

1142
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 1: or Okay, No, she's been doing great. So you bought

1143
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:37,840
Speaker 1: one scale for a dog that didn't gain any weight. No,

1144
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 1: but I need it for the rest of her life.

1145
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 1: I'm very obsessed with weighing her. What if you got

1146
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:44,640
Speaker 1: like a you could get a harness and then like

1147
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 1: a luggage scale and then like hover her off the ground. Yeah.

1148
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:51,640
Speaker 1: I was thinking to take her to the grocery store

1149
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 1: and put her in the produce in one of those

1150
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 1: little baskets. Yeah, she would be cute there. But I

1151
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 1: think with Chloe in particular, us being home all the

1152
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 1: time means she's awake, wait more than she's used to,

1153
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 1: and that in itself is kind of a form of stimulation. Um.

1154
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 1: But since we Thank God are out of the city

1155
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 1: and in the burbs. Like we're just doing like short

1156
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,360
Speaker 1: bursts and like getting her to sprint a little bit.

1157
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 1: That's uh, well, we're lucky we have a like a

1158
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,760
Speaker 1: backyard area and that she is really good off leash.

1159
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 1: So we've been running around with her in the backyard

1160
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:32,000
Speaker 1: and then going for walks as well around. But I

1161
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 1: actually also just did a post on this on my Instagram,

1162
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:36,680
Speaker 1: which I will plug now is Dr Liese Litman. But

1163
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 1: I actually just did a whole post about um mental

1164
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:42,000
Speaker 1: and physical stimulation. So there are games you can play

1165
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 1: with your dog. Um, there are you completely dry. Um,

1166
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 1: there are treat or food puzzles that they can eat

1167
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:54,440
Speaker 1: out of, which makes mental stimulations so much more fun. Um.

1168
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:56,720
Speaker 1: There's all kinds of training and tricks you can do

1169
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:59,480
Speaker 1: with them. Uh so yeah, there's lots of things you

1170
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 1: can do with um since you have the time in

1171
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 1: your home to keep them mentally and physically stimm. And

1172
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 1: there's always dog TV, right, true big fan of dog TV.

1173
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 1: Oh and the other thing that I am doing is

1174
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 1: UM shout out run. Yeah. We we have a whistle

1175
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:17,520
Speaker 1: tracker too that tracks her, so she has a recommended

1176
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:20,000
Speaker 1: amount of exercise based on her like breed and wait,

1177
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:22,600
Speaker 1: it's thirty six minutes, um, and like there was one

1178
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 1: minute that she got. We were both really busy, and

1179
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 1: like she got eight minutes of exercise and we totally

1180
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:30,439
Speaker 1: failed at parenting that day. But oh my god, how

1181
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 1: dare you? Yeah, it was a sleepy day for all

1182
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 1: of us. Um, But it was also thunderstorms not nonstoppable.

1183
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 1: That's true. That's true too. So that does make it

1184
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 1: hard if you didn't take your dog out for exercise

1185
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 1: and a thunders I still have guilt about it. But

1186
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 1: it really does get you moving because it's like, oh,

1187
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:49,680
Speaker 1: if she needs like an extra five minutes of exercise,

1188
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:51,680
Speaker 1: like we'll go out and get that extra five minutes.

1189
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:54,480
Speaker 1: So I really love the whistle tracker for for that

1190
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 1: that reason. So yeah, Cookie is her own kind of

1191
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 1: self tracker because she has these little squeaky toys and

1192
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 1: every time she requires attention or more exercise, she'll get

1193
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 1: one of her squeaky toys and squeak it and start

1194
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:13,320
Speaker 1: whining in pitch with the squeaky toy, and then it

1195
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 1: just becomes this ever increasing amount of squeaking from the

1196
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:19,880
Speaker 1: toy and from the dog, and we have to. It's

1197
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:21,840
Speaker 1: we don't have a choice. We have to pay attention

1198
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:27,000
Speaker 1: and play with her going outside. So there's actually some

1199
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 1: research and this is actually research that's been done on

1200
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 1: elderly and aging humans and dogs. But I think it

1201
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 1: actually applies a lot to Lockdown right now, because one

1202
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:43,200
Speaker 1: of the problems with elderly dogs and humans is that

1203
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:48,040
Speaker 1: we don't get as much stimulation because of the reduced

1204
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:50,840
Speaker 1: mobility and not being able to go out and do

1205
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 1: as many things anymore. So this which is something like

1206
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:59,400
Speaker 1: now obviously very different from actually aging, but I think

1207
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:03,000
Speaker 1: these fine things can apply to our situation. And so,

1208
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:05,080
Speaker 1: first of all, I think this is kind of neat

1209
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 1: because like there is some early evidence that therapy dogs

1210
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 1: may help patients who are living with dementia, and this

1211
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 1: is like a difficult area to study because it is

1212
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 1: there's a lot of like ethical concerns where when you

1213
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:24,040
Speaker 1: have a therapy that seems to help people, like having

1214
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 1: a therapy dog, and it seems to elevate their mood,

1215
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 1: it's really difficult to have a control group because then

1216
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:34,680
Speaker 1: that means denying people essentially like a therapy dog and

1217
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:38,839
Speaker 1: and having like a control condition in a controlled environment

1218
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 1: where you do that. It's it's just difficult to do. So, uh,

1219
01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:45,639
Speaker 1: this is some very like early research, but what we

1220
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:48,559
Speaker 1: have found from it is it does seem to be

1221
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 1: a positive effects. So, um, the limited data shows that

1222
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 1: therapy dogs seem to be associated with increased sociality, decreased

1223
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:02,599
Speaker 1: stress and aggression, and creased blood pressure and patients who

1224
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:05,599
Speaker 1: are living with dementias. So I think that is really

1225
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:09,800
Speaker 1: interesting that we It's like we have such a long

1226
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:12,760
Speaker 1: history with dogs and like now we're finding all of

1227
01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:18,480
Speaker 1: these medical therapies like basically like that helps our cognitive health. Uh.

1228
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:22,559
Speaker 1: By interacting with dogs and then vice versa, we can

1229
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:26,160
Speaker 1: actually figure out novel ways to care for elderly dogs.

1230
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:30,679
Speaker 1: So we are able to provide dogs longer and healthier

1231
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:33,640
Speaker 1: lives with better nutrition and medical care. But then that

1232
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 1: means that as they get older and their minds are

1233
01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 1: still sharp, like we have to figure out how to

1234
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:45,160
Speaker 1: care for them as they have reduced mobility. And there's

1235
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:48,639
Speaker 1: like this new research. There's this really funny study that

1236
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:53,599
Speaker 1: like they made these like basically dog game consoles, like

1237
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:56,200
Speaker 1: a dog arcade game. But you were serious at the

1238
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:59,320
Speaker 1: beginning when you said dog arcades. Yeah, they made it.

1239
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 1: They called it. They called it Dog Computer Interaction or

1240
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:04,840
Speaker 1: d c I. But it's essentially a dog arcade game

1241
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 1: and they they like to they have a touch screen

1242
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 1: that they can touch and like play these games and

1243
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:14,160
Speaker 1: then get like a treat reward after playing this game.

1244
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:17,160
Speaker 1: I think it's really funny that they're like looking into

1245
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:19,880
Speaker 1: basically making like a dog chuck e cheese, which I

1246
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:22,840
Speaker 1: would love to see. Um, but you don't really need

1247
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:25,719
Speaker 1: an arcy fancy arcade set up to enrich your dog,

1248
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:29,160
Speaker 1: like you were saying, Lucy, you I think we'll probably

1249
01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:31,280
Speaker 1: link to that in the show notes that you're post about,

1250
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:34,799
Speaker 1: like games you can play with your dog, and there's

1251
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:38,400
Speaker 1: some research that shows that there's a lot of benefits

1252
01:10:38,439 --> 01:10:42,719
Speaker 1: to um, both like keeping your dog healthy physically and mentally.

1253
01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:45,559
Speaker 1: So yeah, what you were talking about, Katie reminds me

1254
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:47,519
Speaker 1: of I. Actually when Chloe was little, I used to

1255
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:50,719
Speaker 1: play there's something called Apps for Cats and it's basically

1256
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:53,760
Speaker 1: just like a screen of they're like little bugs that

1257
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:55,680
Speaker 1: pop up and they just and she used to try

1258
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 1: to go after them, you know. So um that I mean,

1259
01:10:58,479 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 1: and that's sort of the concept of dog t V. Two.

1260
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:02,120
Speaker 1: And then the other thing I wanted to mention also

1261
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:07,160
Speaker 1: was actually for actually make this robotic dog for patients

1262
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 1: with Alzheimer's and dementia. It's like a high tech robotic dog.

1263
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:13,200
Speaker 1: I think it's called the tombot. But if you just

1264
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 1: type in like robotic dog for patients without they make

1265
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 1: it like it's a stuffed animal, so like they don't

1266
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:20,760
Speaker 1: actually have to care for it, but it's so incredibly lifelike.

1267
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:24,800
Speaker 1: And cats too, It's like they have robotic cats that, yeah,

1268
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:28,800
Speaker 1: that can really help too. So if you're a yeah,

1269
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 1: it is, it's really it's really sweet. They are these

1270
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:37,080
Speaker 1: videos of elderly patients like petting these little animatronic dogs

1271
01:11:37,080 --> 01:11:41,680
Speaker 1: and cats, and it's just because you're older, you know,

1272
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:44,559
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that you don't still need all mental

1273
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:49,280
Speaker 1: stimulation and physical contact and uh, you know, being able

1274
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:52,559
Speaker 1: to live a full life. In elderly dogs. There have

1275
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 1: been these research studies on cognitive decline and how there

1276
01:11:57,479 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 1: are ways to protect against cognitive decline mind with both

1277
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:06,360
Speaker 1: a healthy diet and cognitive enrichments. So they measured it's

1278
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:10,800
Speaker 1: called a brain derived neurotrophic factor, which it's basically like

1279
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:14,280
Speaker 1: just like a protein that it both protects existing neurons

1280
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:16,880
Speaker 1: and synapses and then also promotes the growth of new

1281
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:21,520
Speaker 1: neurons and synapses. But declines in this protein is associated

1282
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:26,080
Speaker 1: with neurodegeneration, so basically like a cognitive decline or or

1283
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 1: your brain health. So they found that enrichment exercises and

1284
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:34,000
Speaker 1: a healthy diet rich and antioxidants, which by the way,

1285
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 1: we actually just talked about last episode. What antioxidants are.

1286
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:39,960
Speaker 1: It's not just a buzzword. But with this healthy diet

1287
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 1: and then these cognitive exercises, they were able to keep

1288
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:50,120
Speaker 1: that protective protein from decreasing in these elderly dogs. So

1289
01:12:50,479 --> 01:12:52,960
Speaker 1: some of the forms of enrichment that they did was

1290
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:56,519
Speaker 1: housing animals and pairs, so having a dog that has

1291
01:12:56,600 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 1: a companion dog of its own, outdoor walks, and then

1292
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:04,320
Speaker 1: cognitive tests and enrichment with training and rewards like memorizing

1293
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:06,439
Speaker 1: where treats are and then finding the treats, and all

1294
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:08,920
Speaker 1: sorts of games. I'm sure, Lisa, you know lots of

1295
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 1: games that you can play with dogs that are fun

1296
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:15,760
Speaker 1: and cognitively enriching. Yeah, a few of them are on

1297
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:18,760
Speaker 1: my last post for sure. But anything anything even as

1298
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:20,800
Speaker 1: simple as just like putting a treat under a cup,

1299
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:23,400
Speaker 1: like three different cups and moving around the cups and

1300
01:13:23,479 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 1: making your dog like choose, or play the shell game

1301
01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:29,519
Speaker 1: with your dog, the shell game the shells or using

1302
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:32,320
Speaker 1: shells yep, um, any kind of scent work right, And

1303
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:34,760
Speaker 1: and dogs don't innately know how to use their nose.

1304
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:36,720
Speaker 1: Sometimes you have to show them or train them. But yeah,

1305
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:39,599
Speaker 1: there's all kinds of simple games. Ye, and you can

1306
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:41,880
Speaker 1: do the same thing for cat. There's actually been a

1307
01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 1: lot of enrichment studies, especially on wildcats that are kept

1308
01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:49,160
Speaker 1: at zoos. So are you guys familiar with the blackfooted cat,

1309
01:13:49,320 --> 01:13:52,760
Speaker 1: the little teeny tiny wildcat. I was afraid you weren't

1310
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:56,519
Speaker 1: going to get to this. I saw this at like

1311
01:13:57,240 --> 01:14:01,360
Speaker 1: to thirty in the morning on net year wild and

1312
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:05,080
Speaker 1: stayed up the whole time because it it I think

1313
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:08,719
Speaker 1: they pitched it as uh as like the world's most

1314
01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:13,840
Speaker 1: effective hunter. It's one of the deadliest cats in terms

1315
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:16,760
Speaker 1: of the amount of prey per unit of time it

1316
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 1: is able to catch and successfully kill. And but it

1317
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:26,120
Speaker 1: looks like just an adorable to any little house cat.

1318
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:29,280
Speaker 1: But it's a tinier than a house cat. Yeah, but

1319
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 1: they're vicious. Wild animals, and I also went on like

1320
01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:36,240
Speaker 1: I went online looking them up and there's so many

1321
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:39,800
Speaker 1: posts from people like I have a blackfoot a black

1322
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 1: footed cat, and then it's a thousand people being like, no,

1323
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:46,280
Speaker 1: you don't know. If you did it would it would

1324
01:14:46,960 --> 01:14:50,200
Speaker 1: it would scratch your face off it. They are not tame.

1325
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:52,960
Speaker 1: They do not They're very very shy, and they can

1326
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:56,920
Speaker 1: become very aggressive when they feel threatened. So while they

1327
01:14:56,960 --> 01:15:00,439
Speaker 1: can't really do much damage to a human, they certainly

1328
01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:03,439
Speaker 1: would not make good pets. But they one of the

1329
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:05,800
Speaker 1: problems that they have in zoos is like being able

1330
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:10,400
Speaker 1: to keep this extremely active cat enriched and entertained. So

1331
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:13,559
Speaker 1: they did this study where they gave these blackfooted cats

1332
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:16,519
Speaker 1: a Roman therapy, just cat a Roman therapy. So they

1333
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:20,720
Speaker 1: introduced odors to these cats, such as nutmeg, cat nip

1334
01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:24,040
Speaker 1: and the body odor of prey, and they found that

1335
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:27,599
Speaker 1: the cats absolutely loved it. It made them exercise more.

1336
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:32,000
Speaker 1: This increase in activity, So the aroma therapy worked on

1337
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:34,960
Speaker 1: these little murder cats and it made them even more

1338
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:40,519
Speaker 1: excited for murder. Murder cat is a great name for them,

1339
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 1: is adorable little murder cats. But for your your domesticated cat,

1340
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:47,559
Speaker 1: there are plenty of things you can do that are

1341
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 1: research tested. Uh They also your cat likes a Roman

1342
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:54,759
Speaker 1: therapy too, especially in the form of cat nip. And

1343
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:57,640
Speaker 1: some of the things that you can provide easily for

1344
01:15:57,720 --> 01:16:01,439
Speaker 1: your cat to keep them enriched is uh perchase for

1345
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:06,360
Speaker 1: jumping on comfortable areas. Also like giving them choices, so

1346
01:16:06,400 --> 01:16:08,479
Speaker 1: if you're going to switch their food or their litter,

1347
01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:11,880
Speaker 1: like if you are able to kind of like set

1348
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 1: up to litter boxes side by side and say, like, okay,

1349
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:18,360
Speaker 1: which litter do you like best? That choice and that

1350
01:16:18,439 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 1: like autonomy is really important to a cat. They love that.

1351
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:24,280
Speaker 1: Usually we say one more litter box and you have cats.

1352
01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:28,400
Speaker 1: That's the general rule that that to make cats happy, yeah,

1353
01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:31,479
Speaker 1: if you if you want to see a very uh well,

1354
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:35,960
Speaker 1: an example of some very well stimulated cats are Stevo

1355
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 1: from Jackass. His house is covered with these cat walks

1356
01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:44,920
Speaker 1: that are like up all around the ceiling, and so

1357
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:48,360
Speaker 1: the the ultimate human daredevil has the ultimate human daredevil

1358
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:51,120
Speaker 1: cats that they're like they never touched the ground, They're

1359
01:16:51,120 --> 01:16:53,960
Speaker 1: just all over the ceiling at all times. There's got

1360
01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:58,360
Speaker 1: to be happy cats and having like safe havens too,

1361
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:00,479
Speaker 1: especially if you have like a how us that has

1362
01:17:00,520 --> 01:17:03,880
Speaker 1: a lot of like other other critters running around, whether

1363
01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:07,960
Speaker 1: they're people or other animals, having little areas to like

1364
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:10,960
Speaker 1: hide in little nooks and crannies is really will help

1365
01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:15,080
Speaker 1: lower cats stress level. Having puzzle toys and toys that

1366
01:17:15,160 --> 01:17:19,080
Speaker 1: help them express their predatory instincts. They are little murder machines.

1367
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:21,720
Speaker 1: And one of the safe things for the environment that

1368
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:23,960
Speaker 1: you can do and a healthy thing for your cat

1369
01:17:24,040 --> 01:17:25,720
Speaker 1: is to play with them and give them things to

1370
01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:30,720
Speaker 1: pretend to murder. And uh and then also uh, they

1371
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:33,320
Speaker 1: love to scratch things, and that's very natural. You know,

1372
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:36,439
Speaker 1: if your cat is scratching your couch and it's driving

1373
01:17:36,439 --> 01:17:39,680
Speaker 1: you crazy, try to get them something safe that they

1374
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:42,840
Speaker 1: can scratch, like a scratching post or some scratchy cardboard.

1375
01:17:43,040 --> 01:17:45,680
Speaker 1: Although I know it is a struggle because I had

1376
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:48,400
Speaker 1: a cat and we gave her every scratchy toy on

1377
01:17:48,439 --> 01:17:50,880
Speaker 1: the planet, but she loved the couch most of all.

1378
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:54,120
Speaker 1: It was like the forbidden thing, and she loved the forbidden,

1379
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 1: the forbidden couch. YEA, once they started sort of hard,

1380
01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:00,479
Speaker 1: once they start marking a territory. So I would say,

1381
01:18:00,520 --> 01:18:03,920
Speaker 1: get those scratching posts from the day the stretching posts

1382
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:06,960
Speaker 1: from the day that they writing posts in the day

1383
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:09,000
Speaker 1: that they come home. Um, and you can also like

1384
01:18:09,080 --> 01:18:11,280
Speaker 1: direct them towards it or put cat net on the

1385
01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:14,000
Speaker 1: scratching post actually to help direct them towards it. There

1386
01:18:14,080 --> 01:18:16,160
Speaker 1: is something called a no bowl feeder for cats where

1387
01:18:16,320 --> 01:18:19,040
Speaker 1: they're actually like five to ten like little mice that

1388
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:21,519
Speaker 1: are in the like in little bowls, and you put

1389
01:18:21,520 --> 01:18:23,720
Speaker 1: the food in there and instead of feeding them like

1390
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:25,679
Speaker 1: out of a bowl, you feed them in these little

1391
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:27,240
Speaker 1: mice and then you put you hide them all over

1392
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:30,719
Speaker 1: the house so that it actually uses their instinct to

1393
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:34,960
Speaker 1: because cats actually do get they eat small they tend

1394
01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:37,200
Speaker 1: to eat smaller meals and get full quicker, and so

1395
01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:39,880
Speaker 1: it does really go to their instinct and keep them

1396
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:43,160
Speaker 1: more mentally and physically happy. I just always worry about

1397
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:45,920
Speaker 1: the idea of having the one that they missed just

1398
01:18:46,040 --> 01:18:49,639
Speaker 1: rotting in a corner somewhere, you know, where you hide them. Yeah, yeah,

1399
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:52,200
Speaker 1: I feel like this circles back to what we talked

1400
01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:55,160
Speaker 1: about in the beginning about how like domesticated dogs like

1401
01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:58,280
Speaker 1: they've learned to become happy by being our companions, and

1402
01:18:58,360 --> 01:19:01,320
Speaker 1: cats like haven't really changed. They just they're like well,

1403
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:04,280
Speaker 1: you you liked us because we're murder machines, so we're

1404
01:19:04,280 --> 01:19:07,240
Speaker 1: going to keep being little murder machines. So you know

1405
01:19:07,439 --> 01:19:10,320
Speaker 1: now that I can't get get real rats like you

1406
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:12,519
Speaker 1: gotta give them fake rats for them to be happy.

1407
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:17,920
Speaker 1: You change, not me, bro. Well, thank you guys so

1408
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:22,160
Speaker 1: much for joining me, and especially for sharing your personal story.

1409
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:25,479
Speaker 1: I think that's so important for people to hear. And

1410
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:28,920
Speaker 1: I I'm so sorry that you guys have gone through that,

1411
01:19:29,160 --> 01:19:32,280
Speaker 1: and I'm really glad to hear that your parents are

1412
01:19:32,439 --> 01:19:36,960
Speaker 1: making progress. Thank you so much, Thank you so much. Yeah, thanks, yeah,

1413
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:38,880
Speaker 1: thank you for having us. This is really super fun,

1414
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:41,000
Speaker 1: always fun talking with you, Katie. I just wish it

1415
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:46,479
Speaker 1: was more informative. Un actually I learned more. Yeah, and

1416
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:49,599
Speaker 1: you guys have a podcast, right, well, I know you do.

1417
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:52,840
Speaker 1: I'm it's facetious. It's aficious facetious questions because I know

1418
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:55,880
Speaker 1: because you were on it and your episode was the best. Yeah,

1419
01:19:55,920 --> 01:19:58,679
Speaker 1: it was a great episode. It's called We Don't Deserve Dogs,

1420
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:03,920
Speaker 1: available where you listen to things yeah, yeah and people.

1421
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:07,000
Speaker 1: You can find more tips on animal enrichment from your

1422
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:10,680
Speaker 1: instagram right and uh, just at Dr Lisa Litman d

1423
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:12,320
Speaker 1: R l I essay if you put that and it

1424
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:14,519
Speaker 1: usually comes up, but L I double p s and

1425
01:20:14,600 --> 01:20:17,720
Speaker 1: Peterman Yeah, and you guys can follow me. Everything is

1426
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:21,800
Speaker 1: at Ritchie Reading and UH next week, assuming this is

1427
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:25,000
Speaker 1: coming out soon, I have an album coming out or

1428
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:27,559
Speaker 1: to be on pre sale. I very modestly named it

1429
01:20:27,680 --> 01:20:31,760
Speaker 1: number one album of the year and it was recorded

1430
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 1: on the last show before the coronavirus lockdown. It was

1431
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:41,720
Speaker 1: March ten pm. And you can find us on uh

1432
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:45,320
Speaker 1: Instagram at Creature feature Pod and on Twitter at Creature

1433
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:47,800
Speaker 1: feet Pod. That's f e a T, not f e

1434
01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:50,760
Speaker 1: e T though something grower different. Uh. And you know

1435
01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:53,200
Speaker 1: you can find me if you're interested in my Katie thoughts.

1436
01:20:53,280 --> 01:20:56,400
Speaker 1: I'm at Katie Golden. Uh. It's it's just it's it's

1437
01:20:56,520 --> 01:21:00,200
Speaker 1: random Katie thoughts, not necessarily show related. And you can

1438
01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:03,160
Speaker 1: also as always find me at pro bird Rites, where

1439
01:21:03,240 --> 01:21:07,320
Speaker 1: I try to get everyone to recognize our overlords should

1440
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:12,000
Speaker 1: be birds. UM. Thank you guys so much for listening.

1441
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:15,480
Speaker 1: If you're enjoying the show, go ahead and subscribe, download

1442
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:19,800
Speaker 1: Press the Stars, leave rating. I really appreciate it. It It

1443
01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:21,800
Speaker 1: really does help. And I read all of them, and

1444
01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:24,680
Speaker 1: I love you all so much uh, thank you so

1445
01:21:24,840 --> 01:21:27,559
Speaker 1: much to the Space Classics for their super awesome song

1446
01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:31,040
Speaker 1: Exo Lumina. Creature features a production of I Heart Radio.

1447
01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:34,080
Speaker 1: For more podcasts like the one you just heard, visit

1448
01:21:34,120 --> 01:21:36,760
Speaker 1: the I heart Radio website, I Heard Radio app or

1449
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:40,400
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast. You guys, see you next Wednesday.