1 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 1: Welcome to Part Time Genius, the production of iHeartRadio. Guess 2 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: what Will? 3 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 2: What's that Mango? 4 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: Did you hear about that pigeon that sold at auction 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: for over a million bucks? 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 2: You know, I know you may find this surprising, but 7 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 2: I actually don't keep up with the world of pigeon auctions. 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 2: But but seriously, though, did somebody actually pay a million 9 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 2: dollars for a pigeon? 10 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: It's actually slightly better than that. Somebody paid one point 11 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: four million dollars for a pigeon, and they did it 12 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: on this site. It's an auction site called Pippa, which 13 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: is short for Pigeon Paradise, which almost makes all of 14 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: us better. But to be fair, this was no ordinary bird. 15 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: This high priced Belgian pigeon is actually an esteemed champion 16 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: racer and his name is Armando. He's five years old. 17 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: He's widely considered the best of the best long distance 18 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: pigeons in the world. So for the buyer, having a 19 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: champion bird as young as Armando means plenty of chances 20 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: to breed him and to hopefully pass on his traits 21 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: to future flyers. 22 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 2: You know, I actually don't think I realized that investing 23 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 2: in pigeons could be this lucrative. 24 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: I know you should have got into it years ago. Kid, 25 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: most of us don't give pigeons nearly as much credit 26 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: as they deserve. I mean, the ones we're used to 27 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: seeing can look drab or dirty. But the truth is 28 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: pigeons are exceptionally smart animals and they've been using that 29 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: brain power for the good of mankind for thousands of years. 30 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: So in light of that, I thought we could use 31 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: today's episode to give pigeons their due finally, from their 32 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 1: roles in scientific breakthroughs to all the times they delivered 33 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: mail for us. So there's a lot to cover. Let's 34 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: dive in. 35 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 2: Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm 36 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 2: Will Pearson and always I'm joined by my good friend 37 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 2: mangesh Hot Ticketerter. Now on the other side of that 38 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 2: soundproof glass showing off his dance skills by doing the 39 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 2: cou coo pigeon. That's our friend and producer Tristan McNeil, 40 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 2: and I have to say Bert may have invented this 41 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 2: dance and may have made it famous on Sesame Street 42 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 2: back in the seventies. I think it was, but Tristan, 43 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 2: I don't know about you mego, I feel like he's 44 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 2: perfected it. 45 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: He really has, you know, gave actually sent me some 46 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 1: research on this on doing the pigeon And apparently in 47 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: the original opening, Burt is just hanging out watching home 48 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: movies of pigeons projected on his wall, and then a 49 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: few seconds into the footage, he tells the viewer, I 50 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: love pigeons more than anything else in the world besides oatmeal, 51 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: and then he busts out doing this whole choreograph, dance 52 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: and routine, and I just don't remember any of that, 53 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: but it sounds so good. 54 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 2: Well, I can't speak to his oatmeal obsession, but Bert's 55 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 2: right about pigeons. I mean, they are much cooler than 56 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 2: we think. Just as an example, I was reading this 57 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 2: week that pigeons are actually capable of understanding abstract concepts 58 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 2: including space and time. Are you with me on this? 59 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 2: It's pretty interesting, So it's definitely not something that you'd 60 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: guess just by looking at them. But a couple of 61 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 2: years back, there was this team of scientists at the 62 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 2: University of Iowa that showed just how smart pigeons really are. 63 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 2: So the team tested a group of pigeons by placing 64 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 2: them in front of computer screens, and then they would 65 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 2: show them one of two lines, either this six centimeter 66 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 2: line or a twenty four centimeter line, and each of 67 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 2: the lines was paired with its own symbol, So anytime 68 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 2: the pigeons saw a line, they were supposed to peck 69 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 2: the symbol that corresponded with the correct length. So whenever 70 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 2: the birds got it right, the scientists fed them this 71 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 2: treat is a way to reinforce that they had chosen, 72 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 2: you know, the correct answer on this. 73 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: Which shows that pigeons can tell the difference between different 74 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: line lengths. But you said pigeons perceived time as. 75 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 2: Well, right, Yeah, So this is actually where things get 76 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 2: really interesting, because the scientists tested the pigeons not only 77 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 2: on the length of the lines, but also on how 78 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 2: long they were displayed for, so either two seconds or 79 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: eight seconds, and the results showed that pigeons connect the 80 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 2: concepts of space and time in this really interesting way. 81 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 2: So whenever the birds saw a short line displayed for 82 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 2: eight seconds, they would peck the symbol meant for a 83 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: long line. Because the line had been displayed for a 84 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 2: longer period of time, the pigeons actually judged it to 85 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 2: be longer. In length than it really was. And this 86 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 2: way of thinking also persistent when the birds were tested 87 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 2: on long lines being displayed. So anytime the pigeons saw 88 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: a long line displayed for just two seconds, they would 89 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 2: peck the symbol meant for an eight second duration. Because 90 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 2: the line was longer in length, the pigeons thought it 91 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 2: existed for a greater amount of time. 92 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,919 Speaker 1: So that would mean pigeons actually perceived time in relation 93 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: to space, right, which is what humans do, like using 94 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: the number of people in a line to gauge how 95 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: long a weight might be, for instance. 96 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right, And studies have shown that elephants 97 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 2: and a few other primates tend to connect these concepts 98 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 2: as well. The only thing weird here is that pigeons 99 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 2: actually lacked the part of the brain that processes space 100 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 2: and time that other animals have. So pigeons are making 101 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,679 Speaker 2: these same abstract connections that we are, but they're doing 102 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 2: so through some other method that we actually haven't figured out. 103 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: Yet, which is pretty amazing. It actually reminds me of 104 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: this study I read about a while back where this 105 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: Japanese psychologist who's named Shigeru Watanabe. He trained a bunch 106 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: of pigeons to distinguish between paintings done by Picasso and 107 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: one's done by Monet, and the birds got so good 108 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: at recognizing the two different styles that they could even 109 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: sort out works of Cubism and Impressionism done by other artists. 110 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 2: It kind of makes you wonder if they preferred one 111 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 2: style over the other when they were looking at. 112 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: I mean, it's funny because the same researcher later conducted 113 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: a different pigeon experiment where he trained a group of 114 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,799 Speaker 1: them to judge the artwork of elementary students. And apparently 115 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: he showed the birds two dozen paintings made by students 116 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: in Tokyo, and he taught the pigeons which of the 117 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 1: paintings could be considered good and which ones should be 118 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: labeled bad. I mean he did this by taking the 119 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: grades assigned by the school's teachers and a panel of 120 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 1: other adults. And anyway, once the pigeons had a grasp 121 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: on what made a good painting or a bad painting, 122 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: they were presented ten new paintings, and amazingly, the pigeons 123 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: were able to correctly identify which of these paintings would 124 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: get low marks by the panel and what's interesting is 125 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: that the findings suggests that pigeons can naturally categorize things 126 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: based on shape, color, and even texture, which is impressive 127 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: because you know, not a lot of other species have 128 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: that trait. 129 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. I guess it's one more unexpected thing 130 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 2: we have in common with. 131 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: Them, Right, and this list keeps getting longer. Apparently there's 132 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: one more thing. Pigeons are the only non primates we 133 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: know with ability to recognize letters. So in a twenty 134 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: sixteen study this comes out of New Zealand, a team 135 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: successfully trained four pigeons to recognize dozens of English words, 136 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: including whether or not they were spelled correctly, and the 137 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 1: smartest pigeon in the group learned to staggering fifty eight words, 138 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: which it was able to distinguish from roughly one thousand 139 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: made up words. In contrast, the dullest pigeon, or maybe 140 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: the least motivated of these birds, still managed to build 141 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: an impressive twenty six word vocabulary during its time of 142 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 1: the lab. 143 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 2: All right, so these birds weren't actually reading the words, right, 144 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 2: They they didn't learn what the words meant or anything. 145 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 2: They just memorized what the words look like. Is that right? 146 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, So they didn't have the meanings. It 147 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: was just spellings. But you know, wild pigeons are smart 148 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: enough that they can learn all these neat tricks. It's 149 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: not like they're ever really called upon to be art 150 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: critics in the wild. And at the end of the day, 151 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: it does sort of seem like pigeons have all these 152 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: powers of perception, but maybe aren't living up to their 153 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: potential in the wild. 154 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 2: I mean, but there's got to be a reason that 155 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 2: they're capability these skills when you think, yeah, I mean, it's. 156 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: True biologically, but in all the experiments we mentioned, the 157 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: pigeons were kind of making distinctions based on things that 158 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: humans taught them, like impressionist art has all these features, 159 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: or the word banana looks in a spell like this. 160 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I can imagine there are cases where 161 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 2: recognizing visual patterns might help a pigeon, you know, forage 162 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 2: for food or a beda predator like and maybe one 163 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 2: notices their nest isn't the way they left it and 164 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 2: that tips them off that something dangerous is in the 165 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 2: area or something like that. But going back to what 166 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 2: you said about humans guiding and rewarding pigeons behavior, what's 167 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 2: funny is that's something we unconsciously do, like including outside 168 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 2: the laboratory setting. For instance, back in twenty eleven, there 169 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 2: were these two researchers in Paris, and they discovered that 170 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 2: pigeons can remember the appearance and behavior of specific people. 171 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 2: So here's how it went. Over the course of multiple sessions, 172 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 2: these two researchers went to a local park and they 173 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 2: fed this same flock of pigeons. So the first time 174 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 2: they go out, one researcher fed the birds and then 175 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 2: just stood there while they ate this food. I Meanwhile, 176 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 2: the other researcher put some food down and then immediately 177 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 2: turned hostile and chased the pigeons away. I'm sure everybody 178 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 2: else in the park was enjoying this. But the researchers 179 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 2: then repeated the experiment again and again, except during the 180 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 2: subsequent visits, neither of them chased away the pigeons. And 181 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 2: here's the thing. The pigeons actually remembered which researcher had 182 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 2: been nice to them and which one had showed them away, 183 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:57,479 Speaker 2: And so whenever the researchers returned, the pigeons continuously avoided 184 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 2: that researcher who had shunned them. In the first place, 185 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 2: even though he hadn't done anything like that on any 186 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 2: other occasion. 187 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: Huh, that's pretty interesting. So what kind of like visual 188 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: cues were the pigeons picking up, Like was the hostile 189 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 1: researcher bigger or more intimidating or facial hair like, what 190 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: was the distinction? 191 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, when I was reading about this, that was what 192 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 2: I had assumed as well, is that maybe one researcher 193 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 2: just look less threatening or was wearing more attractive color 194 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 2: or something like that. But they actually accounted for all 195 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 2: of this. In the experiment. The researchers were the same sex, age, build, 196 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 2: skin color, They dressed similarly. It's true that each wore 197 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 2: a different colored lab coat, but you know, I mean, 198 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 2: they also switched lab coats on different visits, and the 199 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 2: pigeons could still always tell which researcher had been hostile 200 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 2: on that first encounter. So the most likely explanation for this, 201 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 2: according to experts, is that pigeons recognize the researchers by 202 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 2: their faces. So not only does that show how pigeons 203 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 2: might use their perceptive powers in the wild, it also 204 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 2: shows that pigeons are really smart about which visual information 205 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 2: to keep track of. Like, you know, take the different 206 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 2: colored lab codes for instance. It seems like the obvious 207 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 2: feature to remember, like since a lab code would have 208 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 2: you know, covered like ninety percent of their body. Yeah, 209 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 2: but it's like our version of feathers, you would think 210 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 2: at least. And yet the pigeons zeroed in on the researchers' 211 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 2: facial traits, which is something that couldn't easily be changed 212 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 2: day to day. And so according to these researchers, that 213 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 2: distinction is likely something pigeons have picked up on, you know, 214 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 2: over their years of living in cities and around other humans. 215 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: Which makes a ton of sense. And I'm actually glad 216 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: you're bringing up that city connection. We've talked a lot 217 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: so far about the science of pigeons, So what do 218 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: you say we change gears in and talk a little 219 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: pigeon history and how they came to cities in the 220 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: first place. 221 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 2: That sounds good. But before we get into that, let's 222 00:10:46,880 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 2: take a quick break. 223 00:10:55,160 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: And you're listening to part Time Genius and we're talking 224 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: about all the amazing things you never knew about the 225 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: humble pigeon, And speaking of which, one thing I was 226 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: surprised to learn this week is just how far back 227 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: our relationship with pigeons actually go. For instance, archaeologists have 228 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: uncovered figurines, mosaics, and other works of art depicting pigeons 229 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: at dig sites in modern day i Raq, and those 230 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: artifacts are thought to date as far back as forty 231 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: five hundred BCE. There's also evidence that pigeons were a 232 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: staple food in the Middle East and Europe for thousands 233 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: of years, and when you take all of that together, 234 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: it's likely that the common rock pigeon, which is the 235 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: species you find in most cities, may have been the 236 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: very first bird that humans domesticated. 237 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 2: And if I remember it, did that happen mainly because 238 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 2: pigeons were an easy way to source meat or something. 239 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: Well, I think that was certainly their main appeal at first, 240 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: while game was often seen hard to come by in Mesopotamia, 241 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: so these protein rich rock pigeons would have been a 242 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: godsend in all likelihood, though some hungry ancient farmer probably 243 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: noticed the bird's milling around his crops and decided it 244 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: would be better if he let the birds roost on 245 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: his farm rather than drive him away. But one of 246 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: the side effects from spending so much time in close 247 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: quarters was that humans started to take liking to the birds, 248 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: and not just the way they tasted. Against all odds, 249 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: humans started seeing reflections of their own humanity and pigeons, 250 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: for instance, Unlike other animals, the pigeons were monogamous and 251 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: couples working together to raise their offspring. They were seen 252 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: as intelligent and fiercely protective when necessary, but also peaceful 253 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: and calm when left to their own devices. And all 254 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: these cultures kind of adapted the pigeon as a religious 255 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,679 Speaker 1: symbol or a deity as a result. For example, there 256 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 1: are three different goddesses that were symbolized by the pigeons, ishtar, Aphrodite, 257 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: and Venus, which spans Babylonia and Greece and Roman culture. 258 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: And in Christian iconography, which I know a ton about, 259 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: the pigion is used to represent the Holy Spirit, or 260 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: at least that's what I read now. 261 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 2: I know we probably have a lot of listeners thinking 262 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 2: here that you're getting your birds mixed up, because didn't 263 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 2: those religions use doves as symbols, not pigeons. 264 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: So prepare to have your mind blown, because scientifically speaking, 265 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: the words dove and pigeon refer to the same animal. 266 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 1: They're actually one of three hundred eight different bird species 267 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: in the columbide family. 268 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 2: All right, So you're telling me that the pure white dove, 269 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 2: a universal symbol of peace, is really just another kind 270 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 2: of pigeon. 271 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: And vice versa. The gray rock pigeon you saw in 272 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: the park the other day is also known as a 273 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: rock dove. 274 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 2: All right, So what about the birds themselves, Like, how 275 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 2: did every city in America wind up overrun by pigeons? Yeah? 276 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: I mean overrun's actually a good word for it. Rock 277 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: pigeons are actually an invasive species. They were originally native 278 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: only to Eurasia and northern Africa, but that changed in 279 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: the early sixteen hundreds when European settlers like the French, 280 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 1: introduced the birds to North America for the very first time, 281 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: and the domesticated birds have been brought along as a 282 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:56,439 Speaker 1: source of food or in some cases, just to be 283 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: raised as a hobby. But somewhere along the way, many 284 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: of them escaped to cities and made new homes from 285 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: themselves on the ledges of buildings, which probably reminded them 286 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: of the cliffs back home that they'd nest in the 287 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: wild on. And from that point on, pigeons became a 288 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 1: fixture in American towns and cities, really thriving in parts 289 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: because pigeons aren't picky eaters. They don't have special diets 290 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: like many other birds, so whatever trash or leftovers they 291 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: found on city streets that kind of suited their taste 292 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: just fine. 293 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 2: Which I don't know why I always think about this quote, 294 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 2: but there was that thirty Rock line where Tracy Jordan 295 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 2: sees a pigeon eating trash and he just goes stop 296 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 2: eating people's old French fries. Pigeon have some self respect, 297 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 2: don't you know? You can fly, which is so good. 298 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: But that lack of self respect has benefited them over 299 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: the years. The world pigeon population is estimated at four 300 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: hundred million, with seven million pigeons living in New York 301 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: City alone. That's almost a bird for every New Yorker 302 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: minus the bronx. 303 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 2: I was going to say, the population in the area 304 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 2: is about that. That's pretty crazy. And all those birds 305 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 2: in the US are descended from on that initial crop 306 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 2: of European runaways. 307 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're all imported, but to be fair, that wasn't 308 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: always the case. So when rock pigeons were first brought 309 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: to American chores, in the seventeenth century, the continent actually 310 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: had its own thriving indigenous pigeon species, and that's the 311 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: passenger pigeon. And according to mental Floss, as many as 312 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: five billion passenger pigeons lived here during the colonial era, 313 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: accounting for somewhere between twenty five to forty percent of 314 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: all birds in the entire country. However, as you probably know, 315 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: that's not the case anymore. Over, hunting and habitat loss, 316 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: all of that kind of brought an end to the 317 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: passenger pigeon in the early twentieth century, with the last 318 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: of their kind, this domesticateid female named Martha, passing away 319 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: in nineteen fourteen. 320 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 2: All right, this is probably the strangest transition that I'm 321 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 2: going to make today, but you queued it up so 322 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 2: nicely for me. So, speaking of dead pigeons, one thing 323 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 2: I've always wondered is, if New York is so chock 324 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 2: full of them, then how are there not dead ones 325 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 2: everywhere you look? 326 00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: Like? 327 00:15:57,720 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 2: At least, not that I'm complaining about this, but if 328 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 2: you have thought about that. 329 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: You know I haven't thought about it. But now I'm 330 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: curious what you learn, Like, did you get an answer 331 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: for this? 332 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 2: Well? It turns out that pigeon corpses really are something 333 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 2: of a rarity in American cities, and the biggest reason 334 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 2: for this is that the sheer number of predators that 335 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 2: pigeons are up against in urban areas is greater than 336 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 2: you would think. Like, as someone at the Smithsonian once 337 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 2: put it, rats, cats, raccoons, foxes, possums, they all love 338 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 2: them some pigeon, is what they said. 339 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: That is Sasha Smithsonian thing Smithsonian. So you're saying most 340 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: pigeons get eaten up by predators, But what about like 341 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: the old timers. I mean, there have to be some 342 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: pigeons that make it to old age. So where did 343 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: those guys end up? 344 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 2: Well, you're definitely talking about the minority here. I mean, 345 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 2: most wild pigeons survive for five or six years on average, 346 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 2: and that's compared to fifteen years or even longer in captivity. 347 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 2: So the ones that aren't eaten, like the lucky ones, 348 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 2: who have a lot more control over their deaths, they 349 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 2: tend to choose these peaceful nooks and crannies for their 350 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 2: final resting places. So maybe the air ducts of a 351 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 2: building or the corner ledge of a skyscraper. Some whether 352 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 2: it's you know, not quite as visible. 353 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: So I guess it really does depend on where you look. 354 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you've got to really want to find 355 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 2: a dead pigeon. I guess. 356 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: It's a heck of a scavenger. But you know, the 357 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: whole time we've been talking about this, I keep thinking 358 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 1: of that story about Nixon's inaugurations. Do you remember this one? 359 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 2: I don't think I do remember. This. 360 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: Apparently had a tough go at his first inauguration in 361 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, like the Vietnam War was in full swing, 362 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: and Nixon's motorcade wound up being pelted with tomatoes and rocks. 363 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 1: So when his second inauguration came around in seventy three, 364 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: Nixon remembered how messy things had gotten the last time, 365 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: and he wanted to take every possible precaution to avoid 366 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: another embarrassment. And this is how far he went. Right. 367 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: He had his people paint the branches of trees along 368 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: the parade route with this special chemical called roost no more. 369 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 1: It was this guy chemical that was supposed to make 370 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: a pigeon's feet so itchy that it wouldn't want to 371 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: above the motor kit. I guess, And yeah, and obviously 372 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: he was trying to avoid droppings falling on the car. 373 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: But as you can probably tell about the fact that 374 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: I'm telling you this story, things did not go as planned. 375 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: So for starters, the pigeons didn't mind the itchiness of 376 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: roofs no more, I guess. And what's worse, they didn't 377 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: mind the taste of it either. So so many pigeons ate 378 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,360 Speaker 1: this highly toxic paste that the day of the parade, 379 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: the entire route was like littered with dozens of dead 380 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: and dying pigeons, which is so much worse than dirty windshields. 381 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 2: Oh no kidding. Can you imagine being there? That would 382 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,479 Speaker 2: have been pretty brute, so weird. All right, Well, now 383 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 2: that we've seen the time when pigeons and humans didn't 384 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 2: get along so well, I feel like we should take 385 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 2: a look at a few examples of the opposite, you know, 386 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 2: the times when pigeons and people lived in perfect harmony. 387 00:18:45,480 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do that, But first another break. 388 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 2: Welcome back to part time genius. Somego. I know it 389 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 2: can be dicey to try and pin down the etymology 390 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 2: of a phrase. Any idiom you think of can probably 391 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 2: have a half dozen or so false origin stories. But 392 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 2: there is one that I came across this week that 393 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 2: was just too interesting not to talk about it. So 394 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 2: you've heard the term stool pigeon. 395 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: Before, right, sure, like an informer or rat or whatever. 396 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 2: That's right. And it's kind of a strange phrase when 397 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 2: you think about it, because number one, how does a 398 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 2: stool fit into any of this? And number two, pigeons 399 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 2: aren't that talkative and you know, as far as birds go, 400 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 2: they're actually pretty quiet. 401 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: So I hadn't thought about this before, but I'm pretty 402 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: curious where does the term actually come from. 403 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 2: Well, the working theory is that the phrase is this 404 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 2: throwback to an old sixteenth century hunting practice where pigeons 405 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 2: were used as decoys to lure in larger birds. As 406 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 2: for the stool part, there are a couple of options here. 407 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 2: One is that these decoy pigeons were tied to actual stools, 408 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 2: like the idea of being that the live pigeon would 409 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 2: flutter in place and catch the eye of these other animals. 410 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 2: And then the other option is that stool is really 411 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 2: a corruption of this word stole, which is an old 412 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 2: word for tree stump. It's spelled stoa l e. And 413 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 2: in either case of the stool was whatever you tie 414 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 2: the decoy pigeon to, and then sometime in the mid 415 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds, Americans started applying the term to a different 416 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 2: type of decoy. Those would be these police informers who 417 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 2: hung around the criminal world or the criminal underworld. Really, 418 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 2: and I'm not sure who first made that connection or why, 419 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 2: but that doesmv where it might have come from. 420 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: Well, pigeons may not be very talkative themselves, but they 421 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 1: are pretty amazing when it comes to delivering other people's messages, 422 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 1: and that's thanks to their innate sense of direction. You know, 423 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: pigeons can find their way back home from pretty much anywhere, 424 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: even if scientists still haven't figured out how they do it. Yeah. 425 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 2: I actually remember we covered some of these theories way 426 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 2: back in that Superhero Animal episode, So if you guys 427 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 2: are curious about that, definitely check it out. 428 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: Definitely. And despite all the mystery around their navigational skills, 429 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: the reality is that humans have been using pigeons as 430 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: messengers since at least as far back as three thousand BCE. 431 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 1: The ancient Greeks used trained pigeons to communicate the results 432 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,199 Speaker 1: of the Olympics, and as you might recall, from our 433 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: Genghi's Kan episode, the Mongols developed a whole pigeon based 434 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: postal system to help connect the growing empire. 435 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, and from what I was reading this week, they 436 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 2: weren't the only ones who put pigeons in charge of 437 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 2: their post. So the birds were apparently used to carry 438 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 2: mail in the Middle East. This was as far back 439 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 2: as the fifth century BCE, and pigeon posts still existed 440 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 2: in some regions until as recently as the early twentieth century. 441 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 2: You take New Zealand's Great Barrier Island for instance. They 442 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 2: relied on a handful of competing pigeon postal services for 443 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 2: the better part of a decade in the late eighteen hundreds, 444 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,120 Speaker 2: and since the island is about sixty miles away from 445 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 2: the mainland train pigeons were the fastest way for residents 446 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 2: to communicate back and forth. They even issued these special 447 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 2: stamps that were only valid for pigeon posts and instantly 448 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 2: They're believed to be the first examples of airmail stamps 449 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 2: in the world. 450 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 1: So what about telegraphs, though, weren't those around in the 451 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds? 452 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 2: They were, but you know, even with that, service was spotty, 453 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 2: and the birds were pretty resilient. Like in wartime telegraph 454 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 2: wires could be easily cut and you never knew, you know, 455 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 2: who might be listening in on this, you know, if 456 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 2: they were kind of tapping the line or something. So 457 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 2: pigeon messengers became this crucial means of communication. Actually, one 458 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 2: famous instance comes from a carrier pigeon named cher Ami 459 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 2: that flew for the US Army in France. This was 460 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 2: back during World War One. Now, Shaami delivered twelve important 461 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 2: messages during his military career, but on his final mission, 462 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 2: this was October of nineteen eighteen, the pigeon was shot, 463 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 2: actually shot both in the breast and the leg by 464 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 2: enemy fire. And despite this injury, Sharami flew back to 465 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 2: his roost with the message capsule still tied to his 466 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 2: wounded leg. 467 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: It's just unbelievable, which is crazy, but what the message said. 468 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 2: It was from a battalion of one hundred and ninety 469 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 2: four soldiers who had been isolated from other American forces, 470 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 2: and people just assumed that they were dead. And so 471 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 2: thanks to share on me, the army learned of the 472 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 2: soldiers whereabouts and they were able to get them to 473 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 2: safety back behind American lines. And I mean, I know, 474 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 2: in the bird's mind he wasn't trying to rescue a 475 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 2: bunch of soldiers. He just wanted to make it back 476 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 2: home alive. But I mean, it's still pretty incredible. 477 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: I mean, it is a little surprising. The enemies were 478 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: like clever enough to slice telegraph wires, but they didn't 479 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: think to like bring in a few hawks to like 480 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: feed on the pigeons and disrupt the communication. It feels 481 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 1: like a simpler solution. But you know, here's another thing 482 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: I had no idea about until this episode. Do you 483 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: know that two pigeons unknowingly helped establish the Big Bang theory. 484 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 2: I hate to ask this question, but are we talking 485 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 2: about the sitcom or like the model of the universe, 486 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 2: because one of these seems way more plausible than the. 487 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: Other, so weirdly, it is the latter. Before I get 488 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: into how the pigeons fit into this, let me give 489 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: some quick background. So back in nineteen sixty four, two 490 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: scientists in New Jersey, Robert Wilson and Arno Penzias, were 491 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: experimenting with their radio telescope and they were trying to 492 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: measure the minimum brightness of the sky. But to their dismay, 493 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: something was interfering with their readings, and whatever it was, 494 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 1: it was producing a pronounced hissing noise. Now spoilers, what 495 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 1: they actually heard that day was an ancient cosmic background radiation, 496 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: or as Smithsonian calls it, quote and echo of the 497 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: universe at a very early moment after its birth. So, 498 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: although they didn't know this at the time, Wilson and 499 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: Penzeus had just found what would ultimately become the first 500 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: proof for the Big Bang theory. And in the moment, 501 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:39,959 Speaker 1: though the men weren't sure what they were hearing. They 502 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: thought it could be a stray signal from nearby New York, 503 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: or maybe their equipment was faulty. It really could have 504 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: been anything, but at one point, the most likely suspects 505 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 1: were actually a couple of pigeons that had set up 506 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: shop in the antenna array, and when the scientists discovered 507 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: the bird's roost, their hopes were dashed. It was starting 508 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: to look like this hissing sound was really just this 509 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: embarrassing revelation that it was a couple of pigeons mucking 510 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: about their instruments. 511 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,199 Speaker 2: I kind of love that this is what it boiled 512 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 2: down to, Like, it's either the afterglow of the birth 513 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 2: of the universe, or you know, some birds just going 514 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 2: into the bathroom. It's one of the other. Who knows, 515 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 2: I know. 516 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: But Wilson and Phentzias couldn't rule it out, like they 517 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: had to get to the bottom of this. And so 518 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,719 Speaker 1: here's how Robert Wilson later described what they did. Quote, 519 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,199 Speaker 1: we took the pigeons, put them in a box and 520 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: mailed them as far away as we could in the 521 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: company mail to a guy who fancied pigeons. He looked 522 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: at them and said, these are junk pigeons and let 523 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: them go. But before long they were right back again. 524 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 2: Wait, so the same pigeons came back in like after 525 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 2: being mailed across the country. 526 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, because they have those homing systems, so they can 527 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 1: find their way back from thousands of miles away or whatever. 528 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 1: But you know, thankfully, the scientists were eventually able to 529 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: get the array cleaned out, and after a year or 530 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: so of experiments, they concluded that the hiss they heard 531 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: was indeed cosmic radiation and not defecating pigeons. The birds 532 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 1: confusing contra bbution to history, though, hasn't been forgotten. And 533 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: if you go to the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum 534 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: today you can see the actual metal trap that Wilson 535 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 1: and Penzius used to trap the squatter pigeons some fifty 536 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: five years ago. 537 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 2: That is quite the honor, and I feel like a 538 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 2: well deserved one. So what do you say we end 539 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 2: on that note and get right into the fact off. 540 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: So here's a quick one. Because birds such as pigeons 541 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: have a much higher threshold for detecting movement, they would 542 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: likely see a movie shown at today's industry rate as 543 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 1: a series of flashing slides like the frames we use. 544 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,719 Speaker 1: Twenty four frames per second is fast enough to give 545 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: the illusion of fluid movement to our eyes, but pigeon 546 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: vision has to be able to see signs of fast 547 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: moving prey, so twenty four frames per second is just 548 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: way too slow for the birds to perceive. 549 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 2: All right, Well, pigeon vision may be based on ultra 550 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,239 Speaker 2: quick movement, but do you know what's even faster than 551 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 2: a pigeon? Mango? 552 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: A lot of things. 553 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, a lot of things are. But I was 554 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,959 Speaker 2: specifically talking here about bees because apparently, back in eighteen 555 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 2: eighty eight, a pigeon fancier and bee keeper had this 556 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 2: friendly little contest in Germany. They challenged each other's pet 557 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 2: of choice to this grueling three and a half mile race, 558 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,360 Speaker 2: and when you know it, the bee won by a 559 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 2: full twenty five seconds. 560 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: That is impressive. But I mostly want to know how 561 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: this contest happened in the first place, Like how bored 562 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 1: must these guys have been to like organizer race? Like that? 563 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: It's a question ptty strange, But okay, So since we're 564 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 1: on the subject of pigeon losses, I have to tell 565 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: you that there are catfish in France that have learned 566 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: to lunge out of the water in an effort to 567 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 1: hunt pigeons. And while the catfish aren't the most adept 568 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: hunters on land, as you might imagine, they do pretty 569 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 1: well for themselves in the water, and their success rate 570 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 1: of catching pigeons is an impressive twenty eight percent. 571 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 2: That's a lot higher than I would have guessed, to 572 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 2: be honest with you. Since we're talking to pigeons, I 573 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 2: couldn't leave the episode without, of course talking about Nicolette Tesla, 574 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,199 Speaker 2: who you might remember was totally obsessed with pigeons. I 575 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 2: feel like that fact always has to come up here. 576 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 2: And one female pigeon in particular, so Tesla once said 577 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 2: of her, I love that pigeon as a man loves 578 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 2: a woman, and she loved me as long as I 579 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 2: had her. There was a purpose to my life such romance. 580 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: You know, I was looking up scientists and pisions this 581 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 1: week too, and one thing I didn't realize was Darwin 582 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 1: was also obsessed with pigeons. He belonged to a London 583 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: fancy pigeon club, and he owned a flock. And in fact, 584 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: Mental Floss reports his nineteen sixty eight book The Variation 585 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: of Animals and Plants under Domestication, has two full chapters 586 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: on pigeons. Meanwhile, dogs and cats share a single chapter. 587 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, that seems fair, all right, Well here's one I 588 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 2: really like. This artist named Laurel roth Hope Crochet's suits 589 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 2: for urban pigeons. 590 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: Well, I already like where this is going. Tell me more. 591 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 2: Well, she basically creates these disguises that pigeons can where 592 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 2: to look like extinct birds. It's basically, you know, coseplay 593 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 2: for pigeons, I guess, But I guess it's also to 594 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 2: raise awareness for what our parks could have looked like 595 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 2: if we were a little more careful with nature. 596 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: I like that idea, and I do hope I get 597 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: to see some of these extinct not extinct birds in 598 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: the city, and I like the fact, so I'm going 599 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: to give it to you this week. 600 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much, and it definitely wasn't easy, 601 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 2: but I kind of liked that fact. But that does 602 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 2: it for today's episode of part Time Genius from Gabe, Tristan, Mango, 603 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 2: loll and me. Thanks so much for listening. Part Time 604 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 2: Genius is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 605 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 606 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.