Speaker 1: Wind Down with Jane Kramer and Michael Coffin and I'm
Speaker 1: her radio podcast. So there's a lot of rumors circling
Speaker 1: the interweb, and I wanna just kind of, um, how
Speaker 1: do I say, talk about one of the rumors right now?
Speaker 1: And we actually have someone in the waiting room to
Speaker 1: talk about one of those rumors. So let's there's two,
Speaker 1: so let's bring the one rumor in. Um, she's our
Speaker 1: surprise guest coming on the show, and our surprise guest
Speaker 1: is drumroll please, m is this thing on? That's the
Speaker 1: most perfect Sarah? I know? That was I said, and
Speaker 1: our secret guest is and then we did a drum roll,
Speaker 1: and then you go, is this thing on? No? I
Speaker 1: genuinely like, oh, I didn't see myself. I didn't know
Speaker 1: what was going on. Hi, Hi, honey. You guys know
Speaker 1: that our one and only Sarah now Gretzky. Yep, our
Speaker 1: one and only Sarah Gretzky. Um. So, girlfriend, there is
Speaker 1: a rumor circulating the internet that you are pregnant, and
Speaker 1: I just you know, we got to talk about it.
Speaker 1: Is it true? You know? I'm just glad I could
Speaker 1: come on and speak for myself. Yes, that is a
Speaker 1: true That is a true rumor you've been hearing Sarah
Speaker 1: Gretzky is pregnant. Um, this is your rainbow baby, I know,
Speaker 1: and it's a it's a girl. Man, it's so weird,
Speaker 1: Like I feel so weird, even like I don't know
Speaker 1: how many weeks are you right now? So I am
Speaker 1: also like that's what I'm still getting used to, the
Speaker 1: weak's thing. Like no one tells you how confusing that is.
Speaker 1: I am almost I'm like sixteen and a half. Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, okay, So I just I have I have
Speaker 1: a few things. When so you found out first that
Speaker 1: you well for so how do you find out you're pregnant? So,
Speaker 1: oh my god, what a journey. So I you know,
Speaker 1: I did clone in in December and that did not work.
Speaker 1: I mean it did what it was supposed to do
Speaker 1: for my body, but it didn't. We did not conceive.
Speaker 1: If you don't know what that is, just it's a
Speaker 1: quick google. I don't. I can't get into this thing,
Speaker 1: both honestly, honestly both. So um, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, when you're trying quote unquote whatever trying is,
Speaker 1: you've got tests laying around all all times of every day,
Speaker 1: every hour, and I genuinely I did not think I
Speaker 1: ovulated that month, And so I was we were in Colorado,
Speaker 1: and I was just feeling off, which is like normal
Speaker 1: between COVID and the altitude. I was just feeling weird,
Speaker 1: and I was like, cents certain it was like altitude sickness.
Speaker 1: And I called my sister because I was like, like
Speaker 1: I was. I was already crying because I was like,
Speaker 1: I hate that when i feel off, I automatically think, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe I'm pregnant, you know. I hate that. I want
Speaker 1: to feel that, but it could be COVID, it could
Speaker 1: be anything, but my mind goes there. And she was like, well,
Speaker 1: then just take a test and put that out of
Speaker 1: your mind and then go drink some water and hydrate.
Speaker 1: So I was in the bathroom on face time with her.
Speaker 1: I took a test, and I swear to God, I
Speaker 1: like fainted screaming. I thought I was like having like
Speaker 1: a massive diarrhea, Like he didn't not know what was
Speaker 1: going on in the bathroom because I was like screaming,
Speaker 1: crying because I saw like a faint, like there was
Speaker 1: a line there. But I was like, my mind's playing
Speaker 1: tricks on me, and I turned the camera and back.
Speaker 1: It was like, that's a fucking line, Like, like god,
Speaker 1: So it wasn't exciting or romantic. Tie came barging in.
Speaker 1: He's like, is everything okay? Are you fine? And I
Speaker 1: was like, do I need to wipe your butt? He
Speaker 1: literally was like no, no, this is tight. He knocks
Speaker 1: on the door and he like opens it and he's like,
Speaker 1: are you okay? And I was like on the floor
Speaker 1: and so and then when we found out that it
Speaker 1: was a girl, you found that out by yourself, yes, So,
Speaker 1: I mean with everything, like and I have been staying
Speaker 1: with his parents for the last couple of months, so,
Speaker 1: like everyone's just kind of been all over the board.
Speaker 1: We really did not tell anyone I was pregnant. It
Speaker 1: was actually crazy how the two of us were able
Speaker 1: to keep that. Um. I think again, after a miscarriage,
Speaker 1: it it hits differently. As much as you promise yourself
Speaker 1: you're not going to let it affect you, it does.
Speaker 1: Like you even said, every time you pee, every time
Speaker 1: you like, I mean, sorry to get graphic, but it's
Speaker 1: like every time you pee, you're checking to see if
Speaker 1: there's blood every time, and every time your stomach you
Speaker 1: just you want to believe it and you don't want
Speaker 1: to let the devil win, but like in the back
Speaker 1: of your mind, you just start you're reserved. And so
Speaker 1: we didn't tell anyone, and I always knew, no shame
Speaker 1: to anyone, but I always knew I just didn't want
Speaker 1: a gender I want. I mean, I didn't want to
Speaker 1: gender reveal in the sense that me and I find
Speaker 1: out with everyone else in that sense, only because I
Speaker 1: think the last year there's been a lot of surprises
Speaker 1: the last year. I just wanted to have a moment
Speaker 1: between he and I personally where we could we could
Speaker 1: do this together. So yeah, my doctor called me and
Speaker 1: he's been amazing and he's really been through it all
Speaker 1: with me, and I could just kind of tell, you know,
Speaker 1: They're like do you want to know? And I'm like yeah,
Speaker 1: and he was like it's a girl, and I just froze.
Speaker 1: I just I just like I I didn't even I panicked,
Speaker 1: fully panicked, full sweat and he's like, are you there?
Speaker 1: And then I tried to not cry and I was
Speaker 1: like yeah, and he's like, okay, I have a good day.
Speaker 1: So then I just went and bought a little pink
Speaker 1: rolf lrn Onesie and wrapped it up for Tie and
Speaker 1: then I told him later um. And then it made
Speaker 1: it special because then we could tell both of our
Speaker 1: parents separately, and it was like it was for them,
Speaker 1: like his mom lost it, my mom lost it. So
Speaker 1: it just made it It was I'm like dreaming and
Speaker 1: like I even like talking about it now. It feels
Speaker 1: so weird because I still am like is this like
Speaker 1: a thing? So what do you what do you say
Speaker 1: to the girl? What do you say to you? Because
Speaker 1: you were the girl about, you know, just suffering a
Speaker 1: miscarriage and not having hope that you're going to be
Speaker 1: a year later kind of in this situation. So it's
Speaker 1: like what do you say to what do you say
Speaker 1: to you know, old Sarah, your go what do you
Speaker 1: say to the girl that has just recently miscarried and
Speaker 1: has like, you know, that feeling of like just brokenness
Speaker 1: and no hope, and like what do you say to
Speaker 1: that girl? So I kept a I kept a journal
Speaker 1: after the miscarriage, not even on purpose. I just like
Speaker 1: realized I wanted I wanted to remember how it all
Speaker 1: felt in a weird way. I wanted to remember where
Speaker 1: I was because I knew I was going to get
Speaker 1: out of it, and I went back and was reading it,
Speaker 1: and I was like, to answer your question, what would
Speaker 1: I say to her? What do I say to anyone listening.
Speaker 1: It's so hard to take any advice or to to
Speaker 1: picture anything other than heartbreak, But like, just know that
Speaker 1: it gets better and take everything. Take everything as a win.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you get to go on a weekend
Speaker 1: get away with your best friend, or if you get
Speaker 1: to go now dine outside, have a date with your
Speaker 1: husband or wife or boyfriend or girlfriend, like take every
Speaker 1: little thing as a win because it all started to
Speaker 1: you know, and everyone says when does it get better?
Speaker 1: When does it get better? And you even said, like
Speaker 1: there is no time frame. Everyone's different. For me, it
Speaker 1: started to get better in like the fall when I
Speaker 1: just started realizing like, okay, that was not the plan,
Speaker 1: Like there is a plan and that was just not it.
Speaker 1: Like just I was able to finally live. Because it
Speaker 1: is all consuming, as much as you don't want it
Speaker 1: to be, and as much as everyone tells you. You know,
Speaker 1: people can tell you everything all day long till they're
Speaker 1: blue in the face, but you have to just know
Speaker 1: in your gut that whatever it is it will better.
Speaker 1: And that's what I wish I could just tell myself.
Speaker 1: I mean, when Kloman didn't work in December, I spent
Speaker 1: and I thought it was better too. I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm feeling so much better. I mean,
Speaker 1: I cried all Christmas. I cried, and I just wish
Speaker 1: I could go back and be like, it's just not like,
Speaker 1: just let it go, breathe and just live because whoever
Speaker 1: you're surrounded with, like Ty doesn't want to see me
Speaker 1: like that. It kills him. You know, like as hard
Speaker 1: as it is to go about your day and just
Speaker 1: think of all the positives, just think of the positives.
Speaker 1: I really think that's it, because yeah, Sarah, I am
Speaker 1: so when you sent me the photo, I mean I
Speaker 1: I screamed. So you were in Canada like when this
Speaker 1: was all and I'm like, I am not going to
Speaker 1: call this bitch on set like she's like and then
Speaker 1: she You're like out at this zoo, You're like doing
Speaker 1: things at like these are full days you're having and
Speaker 1: I'm ties like, how have you not? I'm like this
Speaker 1: is that also was another reason why we didn't tell people.
Speaker 1: I'm like, COVID makes it so weird. I wasn't seeing
Speaker 1: anyone face to face, Like what was I gonna do
Speaker 1: send a text to every person? So finally when you
Speaker 1: were like home, I saw you were doing stories and
Speaker 1: you're like, ask me a question. I'm unpacking. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: she's sitting down like she's home, and I was like,
Speaker 1: she's gonna die. And you're like, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: know you called you face time to me right away,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't know, is this real? Yeah? Apparently,
Speaker 1: so like just screaming, I'm so proud. I'm so happy
Speaker 1: for you guys, Like I mean, you're you're glowing obviously,
Speaker 1: and I just I can't wait to meet this little girl.
Speaker 1: I can't wait for Jolly and her to have little
Speaker 1: late dates and like it's so it's so weird, and
Speaker 1: I have to constantly like even doing this, I was
Speaker 1: like hyping myself up because I'm like, I mean, I
Speaker 1: didn't post on Instagram to like last week because I
Speaker 1: was just so it's such a and then I and
Speaker 1: then you feel for everyone because you know, for every
Speaker 1: person who's excited for you, there's someone who just absolutely
Speaker 1: hates me. Yeah, because even I would scroll when I
Speaker 1: would see people. I'm like, well even your own sister,
Speaker 1: Like when your sister got pregnant, it's like you want
Speaker 1: to hate your own sister, but you you you know,
Speaker 1: the jealous of your freaking sister. You know, of course
Speaker 1: and natural that was a wild ride. But that's why
Speaker 1: it's just so hard, because I'm like, and that's why
Speaker 1: I wanted to say, like I get it, Like, trust me,
Speaker 1: this did not come easy. I am not someone who
Speaker 1: tried for two months and was so lucky and it
Speaker 1: just happened. And I don't even know how it happened.
Speaker 1: And you know this, this took us about a year,
Speaker 1: a little over a year, so like it does you know,
Speaker 1: it wears on you, but I don't know. I'm I
Speaker 1: have faith and I now know every single thing, my
Speaker 1: whole life is already planned out for me by someone else,
Speaker 1: and I'm just living it and hoping for the best.
Speaker 1: And I just hope this girl has good hair. Well
Speaker 1: it's so cool that, like you're story, it's just come
Speaker 1: full circle, like on this show and with us and
Speaker 1: all his friends and part of each other's lives, going
Speaker 1: from talking about time not proposing to now you guys,
Speaker 1: you know, having a little baby, and so we're just
Speaker 1: so happy. I'm proud of both of you and I
Speaker 1: just yeah, we like, we want to see you. So
Speaker 1: however we can see you if you're when you're when
Speaker 1: you're ready, just let us know. We want to we
Speaker 1: want to come see you. And um, but for all
Speaker 1: those listening, Sarah has an awesome podcast that she does
Speaker 1: call the net Chicks, and they just talked about different
Speaker 1: shows and it's fun. Here, give your give your best elevator.
Speaker 1: If you like wind Down, it's nothing like wind Down.
Speaker 1: We don't talk about anything personal. No, I'm kidding. Um,
Speaker 1: we just talk about yeah, TV shows, movies, things that
Speaker 1: we're watching, whether it's Bravo, whether it's Hbo, Netflix, Hulu.
Speaker 1: We just Natalie's my co host and it's the two
Speaker 1: of us. We just kind of um. Last year was
Speaker 1: dark and scary, and we wanted an outlet for people
Speaker 1: to literally forget where they were, what they were and
Speaker 1: just laugh with us and talk shows. And I mean,
Speaker 1: half the time you're texting your family what are you watching?
Speaker 1: You should watch this, you should watch this. So now
Speaker 1: we're telling you what to watch, what not to watch,
Speaker 1: and uh, yeah, we we just try and you know,
Speaker 1: bring a little sunshine on a rainy day. Well, it's true,
Speaker 1: it's awesome. So Sarah Gretzky, I love you so much,
Speaker 1: so happy for your congratulations on your baby girl, and
Speaker 1: thank you. Um I'll text you on the side for
Speaker 1: dates and see it. I know I need to hug
Speaker 1: and and thank you and thank all of the Wine
Speaker 1: Down people because honestly, like if I didn't, I mean,
Speaker 1: you were the only person I really knew at this
Speaker 1: during all of this, so you helped so much. And
Speaker 1: I just you, guys, get yourself a friend who who
Speaker 1: knows what what the what the f is going on,
Speaker 1: because it makes life a lot easier to have someone
Speaker 1: you know support you and guide you and and all
Speaker 1: the and and if they have a podcast, you know
Speaker 1: that helps too, So you talk to you somelf. Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, I'm so happy for her. So that was
Speaker 1: I just love her. She's the best. I'm just again
Speaker 1: the fact that her entire stories coming full circle. And yeah,
Speaker 1: it's true. God has a bigger plan for him. We
Speaker 1: knew it was inevitable, but it's hard during those times
Speaker 1: when it's not coming to fruition. So for sure, I'm
Speaker 1: so happy for them. Well, we have a really awesome
Speaker 1: guest Um today and we're reading their book Um Vertical Marriage.
Speaker 1: We're almost done with it. It's Dave and Ann Wilson.
Speaker 1: And just a little backstory about Dave Um. He's actually
Speaker 1: the pastor at UM, the church that my family goes to.
Speaker 1: And while uh so, we got the book from them
Speaker 1: from my my mom and her husband and we started
Speaker 1: reading it and we just love it so much. So
Speaker 1: there's a there's a lot of you connection to a
Speaker 1: higher power in this. That's what it's called a vertical marriage,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of They're so real and they
Speaker 1: have a sense of humor when they talk about it.
Speaker 1: You know, we were compared a lot to our book.
Speaker 1: And before we get him on, before we're about to
Speaker 1: take a break, but I'm gonna read something to kind
Speaker 1: of get you guys interested. This is something that Dave
Speaker 1: said as I read the Apostle Paul's famous statement to
Speaker 1: live is Christ and to die is Gain. I was
Speaker 1: struck with this thought, I would rather be dead than
Speaker 1: married to Anne. Let's take a break and get him
Speaker 1: on there. He is, Hey, Davey doing good? How about
Speaker 1: you guys? We're so good We are so excited to
Speaker 1: be talking to you guys. Um. Yeah, we're just thank
Speaker 1: you for We feel very honored to view on our show.
Speaker 1: So thank you so so, so so so much. We
Speaker 1: are too, We're glad to be here. We feel honored
Speaker 1: to be with you guys. Well we um, we know
Speaker 1: that you guys have a new book. UM that that
Speaker 1: just it's it's did it just come out or is
Speaker 1: it when? Does it come out? Yesterday? Okay, just came
Speaker 1: out yesterday? Okay, So I definitely want to talk about
Speaker 1: that book. But is it cool if we go back
Speaker 1: to the other book as well, Vertical Marriage, Because you know,
Speaker 1: one of our things that we do UM once a
Speaker 1: week is you know, we've been reading from your book
Speaker 1: and we're so close to being done and we've just
Speaker 1: we've learned a lot, but we've written down a bunch
Speaker 1: of stuff that we just we just want to ask
Speaker 1: you because you know, as we're going through our marriage,
Speaker 1: we see so many similarities in y'all's young marriage and
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I don't know, this is just so cool. No,
Speaker 1: it's awesome. And you know, we're just kind of prepping
Speaker 1: our listeners before we got you guys, on here, and
Speaker 1: we fell in love with your book from the beginning
Speaker 1: because there's those aha moments where we're reading it out
Speaker 1: loud to one another and we're like, that's me, like
Speaker 1: I'm so Dave or I'm so in in this, and
Speaker 1: you know that's that relation. There is just what keeps
Speaker 1: keeps readers engaged, right, And we love the humor that
Speaker 1: you add to it too, where you're able to laugh
Speaker 1: at your own selves and be like, what the heck
Speaker 1: was I thinking? So that just continued to to keep
Speaker 1: us engaged. And so I know our listeners again we're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about no perfect parents, but Vertical Marriage really
Speaker 1: just connected with us, especially since you know, our belief
Speaker 1: in Christ and the Higher Power was something that Jan
Speaker 1: and I opened up in our book about losing for
Speaker 1: a long time, and really over the past couple of
Speaker 1: years together, we've we've leaned more into that. So this
Speaker 1: was the perfect book for us because it's just it's
Speaker 1: there's so much connection to a higher power, hence the title,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, we just want our listeners to
Speaker 1: kind of understand where all that comes from for you guys,
Speaker 1: and why you called it the vert marriage. Can't you
Speaker 1: just say, how inspiring it is that you guys read
Speaker 1: do each other at night. I was like, oh, we
Speaker 1: need to start doing that. I don't know if we
Speaker 1: were we can get up to that level, you know.
Speaker 1: So one of the things that I was reading, and
Speaker 1: I can't remember which chapter it was in, but and
Speaker 1: you said, you know, this was kind of like the
Speaker 1: where it started for you guys was when you were
Speaker 1: in the car and you said that you didn't have
Speaker 1: feelings for Dave anymore. And you know when I was
Speaker 1: when we were reading into your chapter more you guys
Speaker 1: talked about in chapter four, it was about you know,
Speaker 1: you had your weekly date nights, so when you have
Speaker 1: and I kind of started thinking, I'm like, okay, well
Speaker 1: we do our weekly date nights. And I'm like, now
Speaker 1: I'm scared that, like and when we have that anniversary
Speaker 1: that I'm like, if I'm to go and I don't
Speaker 1: have feelings for you anymore, I'm like, where did it?
Speaker 1: Where did where was the mishappen? That? Like? Having you
Speaker 1: had you made the time, but then you know ten
Speaker 1: years later you're like, but I don't have feelings for you.
Speaker 1: So it's like, where did the where did that come in?
Speaker 1: I'll let Ann answer because I still had feelings. Let
Speaker 1: the record show Dave still loved. That's a great question
Speaker 1: because we were still going out. It was more sporadic
Speaker 1: back then. But I realized we kind of stopped talking.
Speaker 1: You know, we had a couple of kids. They were little,
Speaker 1: and you're exhausted anyway when you're going out, um, and
Speaker 1: we just stopped talking about how we were doing. And
Speaker 1: then Dave was starting this church that we planted, and
Speaker 1: we were both doing it, but he was gone all
Speaker 1: the time. We just started fighting about you're not home,
Speaker 1: like you're gonna miss it, You're gonna miss these kids,
Speaker 1: you're gonna miss growing them growing up. And I was
Speaker 1: feeling I need your help. So I was getting resentful.
Speaker 1: Even though I loved that we were fulfilling this dream,
Speaker 1: I felt like he was doing it without us, and
Speaker 1: we started fighting about that and we just couldn't agree.
Speaker 1: He I would say, you're gone the time, and he
Speaker 1: would say show me in the calendar, like I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm not gone all the time. And so what happened
Speaker 1: was we just kept fighting and it would go nowhere,
Speaker 1: and I stopped trying, and I realized, like I just
Speaker 1: shut down my heart. At first, I was super angry,
Speaker 1: and then I got really bitter, and then the bitterness
Speaker 1: turned to basically resentment, and then it went to nothing.
Speaker 1: And so it took a while to get there because
Speaker 1: after a while I was like, oh, you're going again.
Speaker 1: Who cares? I'm always used to this, and that's when
Speaker 1: it can get really scary. And we all have ups
Speaker 1: and downs in our marriages, but when you're at that
Speaker 1: place where you have nothing, that's when it's like it's
Speaker 1: like the dashboard of your cars going off, like you
Speaker 1: need to get the engine checked of your heart. And
Speaker 1: that's where we were. And so Dave, I felt like,
Speaker 1: how did you know? How did you not know how
Speaker 1: bad we were? You know, Dave's like we were point
Speaker 1: five out of ten and I was saying, no, we're
Speaker 1: a point five out of ten. And the fact that
Speaker 1: you didn't know that, I just thought, that's because you're
Speaker 1: not even engaged with how we're doing. You know, hearing
Speaker 1: this now, you know this was thirty years ago. Um,
Speaker 1: I was an idiot. I mean, as I listen to
Speaker 1: this and like, how in the world did I miss this?
Speaker 1: And I did? And I think it's not an excuse
Speaker 1: but I think I was finding so much life outside.
Speaker 1: You know. I was traveling with the Detroit Lions as
Speaker 1: their chaplain, I was leading Bible studies, were starting to
Speaker 1: church that grew pretty quickly. People were pattent patting me
Speaker 1: on the back, and I felt, you know, now, looking back,
Speaker 1: I just found my life out there rather than here.
Speaker 1: And yeah, we were fighting. There were constantly yelling we
Speaker 1: go out on a date and we didn't talk about
Speaker 1: this relationship. No, we didn't talk about a relationship. We
Speaker 1: talked about the kids. We talked about my our jobs.
Speaker 1: You know, again, every couple does this. And yet if
Speaker 1: you don't pay attention to the most important relationship in
Speaker 1: your life, which is your marriage, the rest is going
Speaker 1: to fall apart. And that's what was happening. And I
Speaker 1: didn't even see it, you know, and we wrote about
Speaker 1: it in the parenting book you know later. It's because
Speaker 1: your life gets consumed by your kids, which is wonderful.
Speaker 1: But if you're not careful and you don't put the
Speaker 1: marriage first, you're not gonna even have those kids. They're
Speaker 1: gonna be in separate homes and you're gonna be do
Speaker 1: visitations on the weekend, which is the home I grew
Speaker 1: up in, you know, without a dad, and so I'm
Speaker 1: so thankful that on our tenure anniversary and had the
Speaker 1: curios to say I've lost my feelings for you, which
Speaker 1: really was her way of saying, I'm not sure I
Speaker 1: want to stay here anymore because we are done. And
Speaker 1: again I was blindsided by that, but now looking back,
Speaker 1: it was the best moment our marriage because it in
Speaker 1: that moment changed everything. And here's the truth. We all
Speaker 1: drift unless we're intentional. Yeah, David, you know that what
Speaker 1: Jane's question and response brought something I had written down
Speaker 1: from chapter eight where you said, you know, you're realizing
Speaker 1: you or that that push and poll of being the
Speaker 1: man at home, being the same man at home that
Speaker 1: you are when you're preaching to the church, right, and
Speaker 1: kind of like that that the hypocrisy of it. Right,
Speaker 1: You're preaching this word of how to be and then
Speaker 1: you go home and you justify your actions, justify your
Speaker 1: time away and what you're trying to do. So kind
Speaker 1: of speak to us on like when you started to
Speaker 1: realize that's what you were doing and now how hard
Speaker 1: it is to preach that and execute it at home. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you know. I think there's a story in
Speaker 1: our book where you know, it was late at night
Speaker 1: and Anne said to me, and again, this is Sunday night,
Speaker 1: So that means, you know, Saturday night, I did chapel
Speaker 1: for the Lions down at the team hotel. Michael, you
Speaker 1: know all this whole the whole root of a weekend
Speaker 1: with an NFL team. Well, no, no, listen to this.
Speaker 1: So that means that again, I'm not trying to pat
Speaker 1: myself on the back, but it's it's a busy weekend. Saturday.
Speaker 1: I preach at my church first, then drive down to
Speaker 1: the team Hotel du Chapel, go back and preach three
Speaker 1: more servants at my church on Sunday, then zip down
Speaker 1: to the stadium and change into my sideline gear and
Speaker 1: run onto the sideline and do the whole game thing.
Speaker 1: And again most people think, oh, one exciting life. It's
Speaker 1: really exhausting. And then I get home and I'm exhausted
Speaker 1: and I just want to go to sleep. And it's
Speaker 1: got to be eleven thirty at night, and I'm literally
Speaker 1: laying in there bed beside Anne and I'm just closing
Speaker 1: my eyes, and she out of nowhere says, man, it's
Speaker 1: sure would be nice if the man that preaches and
Speaker 1: leads our church was the same guy that lived in
Speaker 1: this house or something. I don't know exactly. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: said that, like, I wish the guy that preached such
Speaker 1: a great leader and is praying up there, I wish
Speaker 1: she lived in our house. But I again, I'm about
Speaker 1: ready to go to sleep, so I barely understood what
Speaker 1: she said. I go, what, what what are you saying?
Speaker 1: She goes, well, it's just like me, and you stand
Speaker 1: up on our stage and you pray with this passion,
Speaker 1: and you lead with big vision and people are following,
Speaker 1: and you come home and you're just like a dud.
Speaker 1: You know, it's just like you're none of that. And
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, man, I wish I could say.
Speaker 1: I said, I am so sorry you were so I
Speaker 1: blew up well, and I was bad timing on every
Speaker 1: part of mine, you know, for me, terrible. I literally
Speaker 1: said something like, you realize how good of a husband
Speaker 1: I am. I'm the best husband you've ever seen your life.
Speaker 1: No other wife has a man like me. You know.
Speaker 1: She just sort of got quiet and that was the
Speaker 1: end of that. But the next day, you know, it
Speaker 1: was you You're referencing in the book. I sort of
Speaker 1: sat down with God in a calmer state and said,
Speaker 1: you know, is was what Anne said to me last night?
Speaker 1: Was that sort of you because often I've said at
Speaker 1: our church, God talks through the pews. It's my acrosstick,
Speaker 1: you know, because you think of pews that at church
Speaker 1: God talks through people, events, word of God and spirit
Speaker 1: of God. That guy can talk anyway he wants, but
Speaker 1: often he'll use a person, even a two year old
Speaker 1: or a five year old, or a stranger can say something.
Speaker 1: You're like, wow, I think that was I think Anne
Speaker 1: was speaking and God was trying to get my attention,
Speaker 1: and I, you know, I realized that's exactly what was happening.
Speaker 1: It was like, man, I was given all my energy
Speaker 1: two strangers in a sense, thousands of people at our
Speaker 1: church that I will never really be held accountable for.
Speaker 1: But I will be held accountable, I think in a
Speaker 1: sense for how I led Anne. And we had three
Speaker 1: boys at the time. We still do there now men,
Speaker 1: But you know how I lead my home. And it
Speaker 1: was one of those moments, Michael, whereas a man and
Speaker 1: as a dad and as a husband, I had to
Speaker 1: look in the mirror and go, you know what, it's
Speaker 1: time to step up. It's more important what I do
Speaker 1: in this house that anything I do out there and
Speaker 1: everything out there is going to get applauded, and people
Speaker 1: are gonna say, man, it's important, and it is important
Speaker 1: what we do out in our workplace. But man, if
Speaker 1: I miss it at home and I miss it in
Speaker 1: my marriage because I'm giving all my energy somewhere else,
Speaker 1: I missed it. And you know, in ministry, in a sense,
Speaker 1: I'll sort of lose my ministry because it's it's a
Speaker 1: credibility integrity thing, and I think every job we do
Speaker 1: is like can I trust this man? Can I trust
Speaker 1: this woman? Are they the same person in public that
Speaker 1: they are in private? And so, in a sense, I'm
Speaker 1: not saying I did it perfectly, but it was a
Speaker 1: moment for me to go, Okay, it's time to step
Speaker 1: up and bring the energy here in my marriage and
Speaker 1: my home that I bring out there. Not that I'm
Speaker 1: gonna bring less energy out there, but man. And so
Speaker 1: I actually developed a little process. On my drive home
Speaker 1: from work. I had this mailbox that was near our house,
Speaker 1: and I would sort of open the it just visually.
Speaker 1: I just sort of open that mailbox and put my
Speaker 1: day job in there and pick up my husband dad
Speaker 1: job so that when I walked in my girl each
Speaker 1: door in a couple of minutes, I wouldn't be I'm exhausted.
Speaker 1: Do you understand how stressed I am at work. I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna sit on the couch here and bed out,
Speaker 1: which I think a lot of us do. And I
Speaker 1: felt like I need to step in that door and go, Okay,
Speaker 1: even though I'm exhausted, I'm bringing everything I got. I've
Speaker 1: got five or six hours tonight with my wife and
Speaker 1: with my kids, and pretty soon they're gonna be grown
Speaker 1: and out of the home. Yours are younger right now,
Speaker 1: but man, that window is gone before you know it.
Speaker 1: And older parents always told us that, you know, like
Speaker 1: they're gonna grow up and be gone in a wink,
Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah, whatever. Every day seems seems like
Speaker 1: a week exactly. All I know is now I'm old
Speaker 1: enough to go. That is true. You'll blink, and looking back,
Speaker 1: I'm glad I made this shift. Again. I didn't do
Speaker 1: it perfectly, but it's like, man, I need to be
Speaker 1: a husband right now, and I need to give Anne
Speaker 1: everything she longs for from her man, and I need
Speaker 1: to be a dad right now, and I'm tired. But
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. You know, you step up as an
Speaker 1: athlete and you get it done when you're injured, when
Speaker 1: you're exhausted, the same thing as a husband and wife,
Speaker 1: as a mom and dad. You know, it makes me
Speaker 1: think about um this analogy from Emerson Edgar's Burke book
Speaker 1: Love and Respect, where kind of talks about and I
Speaker 1: feel the complacency or more comfortability and myself kind of
Speaker 1: like you're talking about Dave of where to me in
Speaker 1: my mind maybe men in general, it's like, well, my
Speaker 1: wife said I love you on our wedding day, so
Speaker 1: I know she's not going you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: I know she's not going anywhere. Like I can come
Speaker 1: home and not be like super husband and super dad
Speaker 1: and all this stuff. And so but reading reading y'all's
Speaker 1: book and you kind of owning that and and calling
Speaker 1: you out was like call, you know, stirred up some
Speaker 1: my own introspection to be like, hey, how can I
Speaker 1: do that too? How can I not justify? Hey? You
Speaker 1: and I worked my ass off today? Like what do
Speaker 1: you what else do you want for me? You know,
Speaker 1: or or in those moments when I think because he
Speaker 1: gets frustrated with me, because I'll be like, I'm not
Speaker 1: happy like if if if we're like in a bad
Speaker 1: rut for a while, I'm not happy, Like I don't
Speaker 1: I don't know if I if this is going to
Speaker 1: continue on, if I can keep doing this, And he's like,
Speaker 1: why does it always have to be? And I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I just like sometimes sometimes and sometimes
Speaker 1: you're right sometimes okay, but it's like, you know, you
Speaker 1: guys just think it's like it'll be fine, but it's
Speaker 1: like we still want we need like a little bit
Speaker 1: more effort out of like the man a little bit,
Speaker 1: because I feel like we're we're we're we're dry in
Speaker 1: that area, like we're we're trying, we're giving as much
Speaker 1: as we can, but we only can give so much
Speaker 1: without getting too Yeah, And I think as women, and
Speaker 1: I think for years, Dave Um, if I was saying
Speaker 1: I don't think we're doing well, he'd be like, I
Speaker 1: think we're fine, you know what I mean. And so
Speaker 1: it's kind of what you're saying, Jane, Like I can
Speaker 1: sense like we're not connecting. Something's off and we're Daved
Speaker 1: before would ridicule it. Now he's I think women we
Speaker 1: just have that natural sense relationally of we aren't doing
Speaker 1: well and we need to do something. Dave used to
Speaker 1: ridicule that. Now he's like, oh, God has wired her
Speaker 1: like that, and I usually know how to get us
Speaker 1: to a better point too. So that was really a
Speaker 1: big thing when he stopped saying like, you're ridiculous or
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? Yeah, we're fine, and you know,
Speaker 1: we put it in the book. But one of the
Speaker 1: things that changed about our date nights after that tenure
Speaker 1: anniversary sort of pivotal moment, is now on our date
Speaker 1: nights and we still do this. I'm asking her, so,
Speaker 1: how are we doing? I'll scale one to ten, and
Speaker 1: I know her number is still going to be lower
Speaker 1: than mine. But then I also ask, you know, how
Speaker 1: can we get the number higher? And I know she'll know.
Speaker 1: And before we weren't talking about our relationship. It wasn't
Speaker 1: because she didn't want to. She wanted to. I didn't
Speaker 1: want to go there. David be all chatty because he's
Speaker 1: a great communicator, so he's talking and then I'd go like, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, besides the lions, you know, the sports teams
Speaker 1: and all that. How do you think we're doing? And
Speaker 1: suddenly he has no words left. He you know, would
Speaker 1: be like, uh, fine, don't know. Yeah, we're good, right,
Speaker 1: We're good. And I do think, you know, sometimes I
Speaker 1: can't talk for all men, but I think for me
Speaker 1: it was like I think I knew what to do
Speaker 1: in my job. I didn't always know what to do
Speaker 1: in my marriage or in my home. It's like I've
Speaker 1: been trained, this is what I'm good at. Then I
Speaker 1: walked in the door and she's saying, can we you know,
Speaker 1: can we be intimate, not sexually, just sold the soul?
Speaker 1: Can we go deeper in our relationship? And I just like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means, you know, and so
Speaker 1: and sometimes to be like, I don't know what it means,
Speaker 1: so I'm not even gonna try. And I had to
Speaker 1: realize I don't know what it means, but I can learn,
Speaker 1: and I can better, and we can get to a
Speaker 1: place I never even knew existed if I'm willing to
Speaker 1: pay the price and go there. And so we've had
Speaker 1: to do that, and it's been a it's it's sort
Speaker 1: of a fun journey, even though it's really crappy. At
Speaker 1: times it hurts, but that's cool though. That's the whole thing.
Speaker 1: And that's what something we loved out your book so much,
Speaker 1: because it's all about finding that uncomfortable, you know, moments
Speaker 1: and leaning into them. And there's one thing I wrote down,
Speaker 1: um in chapter six where you talked about you're gonna
Speaker 1: share an upcoming sermon, and you said that next week's
Speaker 1: sermon is called now that You've married the wrong person,
Speaker 1: And so many people came up to you because so
Speaker 1: many people feel that way at times. And Jane and
Speaker 1: I were like, oh my goodness, like we hear so
Speaker 1: many people we've felt that way at times, like is
Speaker 1: this really the one? Because we have this made up
Speaker 1: perception that the right person everything is gonna be easy
Speaker 1: and perfect. And I just want you guys to touch
Speaker 1: on that topic for our listeners, because I'm sure there's
Speaker 1: someone listening right now that's like, yeah, I did maybe
Speaker 1: the wrong person. I guarantee I did. Oh. It's so
Speaker 1: funny because when we got married, you know, we're all,
Speaker 1: as everyone, you're so excited. You have these expectations of
Speaker 1: what it's going to be like and look like. And
Speaker 1: we have been married six months and we're driving for
Speaker 1: our first job. And if you would have asked me
Speaker 1: on our wedding day tell me Dave Wilson's weaknesses, I
Speaker 1: would have said, weaknesses. Are you kidding? I don't. I
Speaker 1: think maybe as one, I don't know. And I can
Speaker 1: remember as we're driving to this job, looking at him,
Speaker 1: thinking I don't think I like anything about him. And
Speaker 1: then I said out loud and I yelled it, marrying
Speaker 1: you with the biggest mistake of my life. And I
Speaker 1: really thought, oh, I've married the wrong person. The right
Speaker 1: person is out there. Maybe we should split and I'll
Speaker 1: go find the right person. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people feel that. Yeah. And you know, like like I
Speaker 1: said in the book, you know, I was surprised at
Speaker 1: how many people came up about that sermon title. I
Speaker 1: just thought it's a good sermon title. I didn't really
Speaker 1: think people thought it. You know, all these people are like,
Speaker 1: I can't wait for next week. I'm like, oh my goodness, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you didn't rob marry the wrong person. Um, but I
Speaker 1: do think Michael's what you said, Jane. It's like, we
Speaker 1: think if we marry the right person will be happy
Speaker 1: there'll be problems. They they won't really be that big deal.
Speaker 1: And then we get married and it is hard, and
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter who you marry. It's hard. Eventually. It
Speaker 1: could be in the first you know, six months or
Speaker 1: six years or six minutes, you know, but at some
Speaker 1: point it gets difficult and so we sort of go
Speaker 1: back and go, I'm gonna I'm not as happy as
Speaker 1: I thought i'd be. Uh, this isn't turning out the
Speaker 1: way I thought. This isn't what I signed up for.
Speaker 1: I married the wrong person. And what we try to
Speaker 1: say in vertical marriage is you're looking in the wrong place.
Speaker 1: That's what the difference is is because and we all
Speaker 1: do this, and I preached this, and I still didn't
Speaker 1: do it. I was trying to find life and happiness
Speaker 1: from the one we have a name for it. I
Speaker 1: found the one, the one meaning the person that will
Speaker 1: make me happy. You know, it's Jerry McGuire. You completely
Speaker 1: like there was never a Jerry McGuire too, because it
Speaker 1: didn't work. It's like that, hopefully, But when that person
Speaker 1: doesn't complete you or you're not as happy as you thought,
Speaker 1: do you think you married drown person? And here's again
Speaker 1: we think it's the secret because you know, and again
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I watched The Bachelor the Bachelor at
Speaker 1: every week, but I gotta tell you, when it comes out,
Speaker 1: I get hooked, you know. And I'm watching this thing
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of a snicker because we're like,
Speaker 1: it's not gonna work, dude, it's not gonna work. You're
Speaker 1: gonna find her, she's gonna find him. And eventually it's
Speaker 1: not gonna work because they're thinking, out of these twenty
Speaker 1: guys or these twenty women, this is the one. And
Speaker 1: then there's problems. And again, what we believe is there's
Speaker 1: a soul ache, a soul longing that is so deep
Speaker 1: that no person will ever be able to satisfy no thing,
Speaker 1: no amount of money, no square footage or the fastest car,
Speaker 1: the most beautiful woman are the most incredible man. All
Speaker 1: that is good, and there's nothing wrong with all that.
Speaker 1: But if you think your life is going to be
Speaker 1: totally happy by this salary or by this person, you're
Speaker 1: gonna be disappointed. And then you're gonna go, well, it's
Speaker 1: a bigger car or a bigger house, so faster, or
Speaker 1: more money. And it's like we're looking in the wrong place.
Speaker 1: Vertical means there's only one person. He's the divine Creator,
Speaker 1: God made known through Christ, who is the answer to
Speaker 1: our soul ache. You know, he's the He's the thirst
Speaker 1: quencher to our thirst. Jesus literally himself said, if any
Speaker 1: man's thirsty, let him come to me and drink, and
Speaker 1: out of the innermost being will flow living waters, living water.
Speaker 1: It's like, you can look anywhere you want, but until
Speaker 1: you understand what a relationship with Me looks like, you're
Speaker 1: only always gonna be searching. So vertical marriage means, Man,
Speaker 1: when I go vertical and find my life in my
Speaker 1: creator God, everything changes because now I think about this,
Speaker 1: I don't come back to my marriage needing something from
Speaker 1: her or she needing something from me. It's like we
Speaker 1: we just leach off one another and we're disappointed. No,
Speaker 1: I am filled up. I am I am full And again,
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about church or religion or reading a book.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about a real, living relationship with God that's
Speaker 1: so real that it's like he does do what he
Speaker 1: said he do. Out of your innermost beings will feel
Speaker 1: you'll flow with lily water overflowing. Now I come back
Speaker 1: to my marriage. And I think about this. I am
Speaker 1: not needy. I'm a giver. I'm not a taker. I'm
Speaker 1: a giver. So I'm like, okay, how can I serve
Speaker 1: in today? Because I don't need her serve me. I'm filled.
Speaker 1: I mean, it changes the whole ballgame because they're like, wow,
Speaker 1: now I'm not selfish. I'm unselfish. I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: the Bible says husbands love your your wife has Christ
Speaker 1: loved the church. I can't do that, but I can
Speaker 1: do that, you know. It's like, Okay, I'm gonna lay
Speaker 1: down my agenda in my life to fill her up.
Speaker 1: And if she's doing the same thing, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: that's a whole different marriage. Well it's interesting. On that
Speaker 1: tenure anniversary night, we're in the car and I would
Speaker 1: have said, the problem with our marriage is Dave. You know,
Speaker 1: he would get his stuff together. I think we would
Speaker 1: be great. And he was praying out loud, and I
Speaker 1: remember I could hear him praying, but in my heart,
Speaker 1: I felt like God was speaking to me, almost as
Speaker 1: if he was saying, Anne Wilson, you have been trying
Speaker 1: to find your life through your husband. And I felt
Speaker 1: like he was saying I never equipped him or made
Speaker 1: him to fill all of your needs. Only I can
Speaker 1: do that, and that really has made a big difference
Speaker 1: when I start getting really needy a kind of question,
Speaker 1: Am I going vertical? M hmm, well, no, love, we
Speaker 1: love long answers. That's good. What would you say to
Speaker 1: you know, couples like us who you know we have
Speaker 1: more young in our marriage, we're still learning were we
Speaker 1: have turmoil? Um? We have. I thought we were great.
Speaker 1: I thought you know what I mean, like where it's
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's it's it's a lot. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of heaviness, and we're trying to find the light
Speaker 1: and we're trying to get out of it and we're
Speaker 1: you know, we're taking one ft from the other. But
Speaker 1: because we are still young at this, like, what would
Speaker 1: you say to us to you know, help us going
Speaker 1: forward on that path of getting stronger together rather than
Speaker 1: being like I can't do this anymore. Yeah, I have
Speaker 1: a couple of things. I first thought was, this is
Speaker 1: what I wish I would have done as when we
Speaker 1: were married in our early like even the first twenty years,
Speaker 1: I would get in my head. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you guys have ever done this. I think maybe women
Speaker 1: do it more than men. If I get in this
Speaker 1: cycle in my head of negativity about Dave, about our marriage,
Speaker 1: about life, whatever, or maybe it's something he said earlier
Speaker 1: that would offend me or make me mad, and then
Speaker 1: I get in my head and I can get into
Speaker 1: this spiral of well, he never does this, or he
Speaker 1: always does this, and he's never home and he doesn't
Speaker 1: put us as a priority. And you know, as they've
Speaker 1: been doing all this brain study, they're realizing we create
Speaker 1: neurological pathways that our thought life creates. Our brain actually
Speaker 1: creates these ads that we go down continually. And I
Speaker 1: did that early in our marriage a lot. And then
Speaker 1: whatever you're thinking about eventually comes out of our mouth,
Speaker 1: and it was usually negative. And in our book we
Speaker 1: sew and you and you probably read the story in
Speaker 1: our book about you know, I felt like everywhere else
Speaker 1: I when I got cheered, Yeah, I feel like I
Speaker 1: come home and all I hear is boo, you're teaking
Speaker 1: what I do. You're critiquing how I father, You're critiquing
Speaker 1: what I'm doing, how I'm not helping around the house.
Speaker 1: And I said, and he said, you always boom me,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I am not booing you. I am
Speaker 1: helping you. I am helping you to be a better man.
Speaker 1: You know, everybody's patting you on the back, but I
Speaker 1: see all of it and I'm I'm stretching you, and
Speaker 1: he goes it feels terrible. Remember I literally asked six
Speaker 1: guys that I was doing life with. We were in
Speaker 1: a car going to a retreat, and I said to them,
Speaker 1: let me ask you a question. I said, do you
Speaker 1: guys and I know their wives. I know that we've
Speaker 1: been friends, we're friends. I said, do you feel like
Speaker 1: your your wives love you? Every guy said yep. Just immediately,
Speaker 1: I said, let me ask you another question. Do you
Speaker 1: feel like your wives like you? Every guy said nope.
Speaker 1: And I'm like what They're like, dude, why are you
Speaker 1: asking me this question? I go, because I feel like
Speaker 1: Anne loves me. She's not leaving. But man, every day
Speaker 1: it's like, I don't do this right, I don't measure up.
Speaker 1: I should do that. I feel like she really doesn't
Speaker 1: like who I am and what I do. And that's
Speaker 1: where we were at that time, and you know, asking
Speaker 1: those guys, I'm like, wow, and I'm not saying it
Speaker 1: doesn't go the other way because we can do the
Speaker 1: same thing to our wives. But what Anne was saying
Speaker 1: there was negativity that I felt, and again and again.
Speaker 1: I think it's one of the reasons I spent a
Speaker 1: lot of the time at work. It's like there they
Speaker 1: were cheering me. Here I come home and I feel
Speaker 1: like she's booing me. And you know, working for the
Speaker 1: Detroit Lions, we got boot a lot, so you don't
Speaker 1: want to come home to stuff. B Yeah. So anyway,
Speaker 1: I asked God, like, God, is that true? Do I
Speaker 1: boo David? I felt like he was saying, yeah, you
Speaker 1: you really do boo everybody in the house. You know,
Speaker 1: as a mom, you're disciplining, your training your kids, you're
Speaker 1: teaching them. But I realized, man, what I've been thinking
Speaker 1: is coming out of my mouth. So I started listening
Speaker 1: to the words that I speak, like, oh, I am
Speaker 1: super negative to everybody, Like I feel like I'm the
Speaker 1: I'm the person that's going to save the day and
Speaker 1: fix everyone. And I also felt like, why would I
Speaker 1: cheer Dave. If I cheer him, He'll think I'm happy
Speaker 1: and satisfied and that will enable Yes, it will enable
Speaker 1: him to think to stay the same. So I said,
Speaker 1: all right, God, I'm gonna try this. And so this
Speaker 1: one night we're having dinner, and this is new for me.
Speaker 1: I had never really cheered for Dave, Like what does
Speaker 1: that even mean? You know? So before we started eating,
Speaker 1: our kids very younger, and I said, hey, you guys,
Speaker 1: before we start eating, I just want to say, Dave,
Speaker 1: thank you for working so hard, like you kick butt man,
Speaker 1: You get stuff done, you provide for our family. You
Speaker 1: work hard. You're a great dad, your great husband. So
Speaker 1: and you know our kids are like can we eat?
Speaker 1: And I'll never forget that night. I mean literally, I
Speaker 1: was looking at her like, what are you doing? She's
Speaker 1: you haven't said this ever, and I and I knew
Speaker 1: right behind her on the kitchen hutch is Emerson's book
Speaker 1: Love and Respect, Like I know what she's doing. She
Speaker 1: read it in the book. And all I can tell
Speaker 1: you is it didn't matter. It felt so stinking good.
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, I've made my chest sort of
Speaker 1: popped out, and I'm like, hey, I'm a good man.
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't say that, but that's what it
Speaker 1: felt like. It was like, Wow, this this cheering, this
Speaker 1: respect thing, brought life to me and all I can
Speaker 1: tell you now, and it's a long time ago. She
Speaker 1: is my biggest cheerleader. She it's amazing. She cheers me
Speaker 1: every day. She says I'm a good man. At first
Speaker 1: I didn't believe her and I thought she was lying.
Speaker 1: Now I believe her. I think she really thinks that
Speaker 1: about me, and it has motivated me to become a
Speaker 1: better man than I actually was. And I think that
Speaker 1: just works for our kids, it works for our spouse
Speaker 1: both ways. Um, when you're negative, it just sort of
Speaker 1: pulls people away and they sort of become what you
Speaker 1: negatively say they are when you're positive. And again, I know,
Speaker 1: and I know it sounds crazy. It's like she was saying,
Speaker 1: I'm this man up here and I'm feeling like I'm
Speaker 1: not that good, but I wanted to become the man
Speaker 1: she said I was, and I started to change for
Speaker 1: the better. Well, I think that's just really important. Understand now.
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean you don't ever stay negative things or
Speaker 1: hard things. And I feel like, oh am, I supposed
Speaker 1: to not ever speak truth, but I still do. But
Speaker 1: I've I've already made so many deposits of speaking like
Speaker 1: and positive that then the negative. I feel like Dave
Speaker 1: really receives them in a different way. And I believe me.
Speaker 1: I've had women come up to me. This one woman
Speaker 1: came up. She goes, so you're telling me that I
Speaker 1: need to lie, I just need to be an actress
Speaker 1: and pretend that my husband's great because there's really nothing
Speaker 1: to cheer. And I think a lot of women feel
Speaker 1: like that, Like if you knew who I was married to,
Speaker 1: there's really not anything there. And I usually say, go
Speaker 1: back to why you married him. There's usually something that
Speaker 1: you saw. And honestly, I didn't realize how deep down
Speaker 1: how insecure most men are and how they need it.
Speaker 1: I've we've raised three sons, and I'm amazed of the
Speaker 1: power we have as women. This is going back to
Speaker 1: your original question. I wish I had known that, like
Speaker 1: for you guys, as a young couple, the power that
Speaker 1: we have as women to speak life like the Bible
Speaker 1: says that the power, the power of life and death
Speaker 1: is in our tongue, and man, I think I used
Speaker 1: my tongue to really I feel like I lacerated Dave
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, and in our boys thinking
Speaker 1: they're so strong, they're so big, it's not going to
Speaker 1: hurt them. But I wish that I would have realized
Speaker 1: back then, Man, I have great power and influence. I
Speaker 1: see it in our sons and their wives. Their wives
Speaker 1: can look at them and I can see that it
Speaker 1: destroys them with a look. With that look, and men
Speaker 1: do the same thing back to women. It just the
Speaker 1: nonverbals can destroy us. So I felt like so often
Speaker 1: I was powerless and I didn't have a say, Man,
Speaker 1: I have we have as women so much? I would
Speaker 1: just add this, I've watched, like I said, I've watched
Speaker 1: and start to She's been doing it for twenty years,
Speaker 1: speaking life to me, to our sons. She doesn't to
Speaker 1: people in the grocery store. It's crazy. She is a
Speaker 1: life giver. So I mean part of that's like she
Speaker 1: wasn't that way before. So it isn't like like if
Speaker 1: you're listening and thinking, I can't change an. I had
Speaker 1: to train my brain. Here's how I started. God, show
Speaker 1: me the greatness in Dave. Only show many of the
Speaker 1: good things you put in him, show him, Show me
Speaker 1: the good things you put in our kids. And now
Speaker 1: you know because she so, I think her next, I
Speaker 1: think our next book should be her writing to wives
Speaker 1: about the power they have. UM, but women and especially
Speaker 1: reach out to us on our social media Dave and
Speaker 1: Wilson or whatever. And I've watched and train other wives
Speaker 1: just like she's doing now, and it changes her marriage.
Speaker 1: And I try to do the same thing with guys.
Speaker 1: You guys, we have a I have a best friend, Michelle,
Speaker 1: and her husband was traveling all the time when we
Speaker 1: were walking like six miles a day and just complaining
Speaker 1: basically about our husband's and UM and so I was
Speaker 1: kind of sharing with her the journey I was on,
Speaker 1: and she goes, oh my gosh, I'm gonna totally do something.
Speaker 1: So she got this journal out and she started. Every
Speaker 1: time her husband did something right, she would journal about
Speaker 1: it and put it in this book. And then on
Speaker 1: his birthday, she gave him this journal of all these things.
Speaker 1: And I'll give you an example, like, um, hey, Rob,
Speaker 1: thanks that you put the Christmas lights out on the
Speaker 1: tree this year outside. I know you hate it. We
Speaker 1: live in Michigan. It's freezing cold, and I know you
Speaker 1: would never do it, but you do it for me
Speaker 1: and I it really means a lot. Thanks for being
Speaker 1: a great husband. Something like that are you making it
Speaker 1: to a kids soccer game. So she gives him this
Speaker 1: journal on his birthday and it's has a lot of little, little,
Speaker 1: tiny entries. He sat there and cried, like cried hard
Speaker 1: reading it, and she said, I had no idea that
Speaker 1: those words would mean so much to him. I mean,
Speaker 1: we really are a little boys. We are we are
Speaker 1: We're so much more sensitive than society has painted us
Speaker 1: to be. And that's what I've told Janna, because I'll
Speaker 1: take a lot of things personal, you know, almost to
Speaker 1: a fault. But I'm like, we are sensitive. I'm extremely sensitive.
Speaker 1: And so that's why that Love and Respect book hit
Speaker 1: me a lot too. And then what you guys talk
Speaker 1: about and the power of the words that you're saying
Speaker 1: and that women have is not to be taken lightly
Speaker 1: because you guys, do you women have so much power
Speaker 1: in your words. Because I feel like there's a difference
Speaker 1: between codependency and then just uh, the respect and love
Speaker 1: you have for your partner's words, right, And so it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you're codependent if your partner's words affect you
Speaker 1: in a negative or extremely positive way. I know, Janet,
Speaker 1: I mean, just you the story, You're just saying, and
Speaker 1: I mean, give me like goose bumps to even think
Speaker 1: about that, because I know I would just break down
Speaker 1: and cry if I if I read something like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean we long to because he's looking at him
Speaker 1: right now, I'm like what I was thinking. I'm like,
Speaker 1: so like I would the wife would too, because I
Speaker 1: feel like sometimes we don't get this, you know. It's
Speaker 1: like the words too back. I'm like, you're the words
Speaker 1: affect me more than anything, like the actions of what
Speaker 1: you've done. The words are like what still sit with me?
Speaker 1: You know. So it's like it's that same thing. I
Speaker 1: was like, okay to feel so appreciated, you know. It's
Speaker 1: like I think women want to feel appreciated and you know,
Speaker 1: and like yeah, like the scene and like I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: that'd be really freaking cool too. I think that's the word.
Speaker 1: We want to all be seen. And I think that.
Speaker 1: I think I was surprised in marriage, especially younger, how
Speaker 1: lonely you can feel in and I had to learn,
Speaker 1: I mean, and would forever tell me that my words
Speaker 1: were harsh, and I would roll my eyes and make
Speaker 1: her feel belittled and stupid, and I always thought, what
Speaker 1: are you talking? About well there, it is just the
Speaker 1: way I said that is harsh and demeaning, and I
Speaker 1: had to realize that what Janna, what you just said.
Speaker 1: She longs to feel treasured and cherished, and even a
Speaker 1: tone can do the opposite. So my tone being tender
Speaker 1: and appreciative and affirming again, speaking life instead of death
Speaker 1: is really on me in our marriage to build her up.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're talking about how man needs to respect,
Speaker 1: but a woman longs to be cherished and different for
Speaker 1: all of us, whatever you're saying, Jan yours is words
Speaker 1: that's huge for you. Now, let's transition that into y'all's
Speaker 1: y'all's new book, No Perfect Parents, because I think that's
Speaker 1: a good point in that you're talking about, just like
Speaker 1: the power that especially the mom's, like y'all's voice that
Speaker 1: you have so tell us about no Perfect parents and
Speaker 1: like what we can expect when we read that. Mhm.
Speaker 1: It's interesting. I do have a chapter in there just
Speaker 1: about identity of um it's really seeing who your kids are.
Speaker 1: Is this it interesting? You guys have a son and daughter.
Speaker 1: Are they totally different? Yes? So different? Is it crazy?
Speaker 1: And I think one of the great things for me
Speaker 1: was having three kids, and they're three boys, and yet
Speaker 1: they're so different from one another. So I think it
Speaker 1: was really great for me to see, like who has
Speaker 1: God made them to be? I think so many parents
Speaker 1: try to shape them into who they want them to be.
Speaker 1: But I don't know if you guys seen this, they're
Speaker 1: already kind of molded. You know, they're already have this
Speaker 1: bent in them. Um. The Bible says train up a
Speaker 1: child and the way he is formed, and when he's older,
Speaker 1: he won't depart from it. And that formed part it means, like,
Speaker 1: how are they already formed? We can help guide them,
Speaker 1: but like we have kids ones this techie kid, and
Speaker 1: ones this artistic guy, and another one's this leader. So
Speaker 1: kind of seeing the greatness and our kids and pulling
Speaker 1: that out and kind of honing that and developing their
Speaker 1: gifts and strengths. But also that as we were in
Speaker 1: talking about words of Life, I think our oldest, I
Speaker 1: mean our youngest was um, he was going to school
Speaker 1: on a full ride and I remember it was his
Speaker 1: senior year in the spring, and I said, man, I
Speaker 1: can't wait to see what happens for you in college.
Speaker 1: You're you're such a great leader when you talk you
Speaker 1: inspire people. I feel like you're going to have an
Speaker 1: impact wherever you go. And so I'm just kind of
Speaker 1: speaking like, this is what you're so good at. And
Speaker 1: so he's like, whatever, mom. You know. He goes to bed,
Speaker 1: this eighteen year old, and he comes back in the
Speaker 1: room and he goes mom, and he's crying, and I said,
Speaker 1: what happened? He goes, Mom, all that stuff you said,
Speaker 1: I am none of that. I am none of that.
Speaker 1: And I said, and you know that. I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: you are that and he goes, no, I got so
Speaker 1: wasted last weekend, mom, and you didn't even know what that.
Speaker 1: He goes, That's who I am, Mom, That's who I am.
Speaker 1: And I said, that may be what you did last weekend,
Speaker 1: but that's not who you are. And I think, especially
Speaker 1: with our kids in this day and age where they
Speaker 1: have so much being pushed at them, of this is
Speaker 1: who you are, I think we need to remind our
Speaker 1: kids no, like you're this great master, he's that God
Speaker 1: has made. Find out how God has made you, and
Speaker 1: then to speak to kind of help your kids know
Speaker 1: who that is. And I would add I think it's
Speaker 1: really important for us as parents to do it. Because
Speaker 1: outside our home, they're gonna be torn down. You know,
Speaker 1: not that the culture is terrible, but you know other
Speaker 1: people out there trying to build themselves up because they're insecure.
Speaker 1: So they're gonna do that by turning down our kids,
Speaker 1: cutting them down, whatever. And so we hope that our home,
Speaker 1: and we have a chapter called make Your Home BEHN
Speaker 1: is a place where our kids feel like at this place,
Speaker 1: at this house, at this home, I'm seeing, I'm believed in,
Speaker 1: I feel safe. You know, it's like out there, it's
Speaker 1: like swirling around and they walk in here and again
Speaker 1: it's not perfect. That's why we called it no perfect parents.
Speaker 1: We're not perfect. Our kids are our parents perfect. Nobody is,
Speaker 1: but a sense that they when they walk in, they
Speaker 1: feel like, here I'm life is given to me. It's
Speaker 1: almost like a recharge of their batteries to go back out.
Speaker 1: But there's a place where two people or mom or dad,
Speaker 1: a single mom, single or whatever the situation is, they
Speaker 1: see me, they believe in me. They're speaking life into me.
Speaker 1: And again they're not speaking life apart from who I am.
Speaker 1: They're speaking no, I understand who God's made you to be.
Speaker 1: Your unique gifts and I'm gonna celebrate that who you
Speaker 1: are not who I want you just to be for sure.
Speaker 1: And I'm excited to read this and I want to
Speaker 1: get through it because chapter eleven is my top five
Speaker 1: parenting mistakes, so I want to I want to make
Speaker 1: sure because I'm always like, how do I not mess
Speaker 1: up my kids? So I'm trying to like read like
Speaker 1: what do I do to not mess up my kids?
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm excited really to read this because even
Speaker 1: in your prologue, it's as a ditch expectations, embrace reality
Speaker 1: and discover that the one secret that will change your parenting.
Speaker 1: So I'm like when I read that, I was like,
Speaker 1: what's the secret? What's the secret? What's the secret? Where
Speaker 1: is that? To highlight it, like like I'm like, where
Speaker 1: is it? So, um, everyone makes sure to get No
Speaker 1: Perfect Parents, and then when you're when you're checking out,
Speaker 1: to make sure to get Vertical Marriage because that's the
Speaker 1: book that we were also talking about early here. I
Speaker 1: love it all, Dave and Anne. We appreciate your time
Speaker 1: and we feel so privileged to talk to you all,
Speaker 1: and we'd love to have you guys back on once
Speaker 1: we read No Perfect Parents. Because we'll have another page
Speaker 1: full of notes to talk about that and have you
Speaker 1: give us all the answers to how to do that.
Speaker 1: So what you guys are really really good at what
Speaker 1: you do. You really are. Thank you so much, Thank
Speaker 1: you so much, so many in a positive way. So
Speaker 1: I mean, we do it. You probably know this, but
Speaker 1: we do a radio show on a podcast that's daily.
Speaker 1: So we're sitting where you are, asking questions and you
Speaker 1: know it's not easy, and you guys are great. Thank
Speaker 1: you were trying to, you know, learn from our mistakes
Speaker 1: and continue to keep growing um. But hopefully we'll we'll
Speaker 1: still be there in a couple of years. Okay, where
Speaker 1: can our listeners find David an uh simply Dave and
Speaker 1: Wilson and with no e just Van Wilson on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook,
Speaker 1: you name it, or we have a YouTube page where
Speaker 1: you know, our videos of us doing marriage conferences and
Speaker 1: retreats and talking about marriage and family and parenting are
Speaker 1: there and if they want Family Life Today is our
Speaker 1: radio show. It's on syndicated radio stations around the country
Speaker 1: and just listen to as a podcast. People listen and
Speaker 1: it's all on marriage, family, parenting. Wonderful Davin, and thank
Speaker 1: you guys so much, really appreciate it. Thank you guys,
Speaker 1: thank you, bye you guys. They were so awesome. We've
Speaker 1: been so excited and looking forward to having them on
Speaker 1: for for such a long time. And I just love
Speaker 1: what kind of what they're saying at the end about
Speaker 1: having your home be a safe haven, right because like
Speaker 1: as soon as the kids live here, they do so
Speaker 1: much adversity and issues and both teasing or whatever. It
Speaker 1: is like I never want our kids to have fear
Speaker 1: coming home. Well that and fear and you know us
Speaker 1: together too. So it's like like that's why it's so
Speaker 1: important to like have like a healthy marriage or on
Speaker 1: your kids and to keep working together. So it's just
Speaker 1: both books, you know kind of um yeah so yeah,
Speaker 1: so no no perfect parents and vertical marriage. David Ann
Speaker 1: Wilson amazing, amazing people go get their books. Well, I
Speaker 1: guess that is uh, that's the show. Someone's in the
Speaker 1: waiting room back in again. Another surprising guest that maybe
Speaker 1: the same one from earlier. Let's bring it right now,
Speaker 1: just kidding, guys. We wouldn't end the show without um
Speaker 1: one last rumor mill that has been out and we've
Speaker 1: been peppered about that we've been I think I got
Speaker 1: like five text messages even I had buddies calling and
Speaker 1: texting me trying to get validation if it was true
Speaker 1: or false. There we are, So the Queen of all
Speaker 1: things Housewives is back because you need to, I guess,
Speaker 1: ask us a question of a rumor that's been going around.
Speaker 1: So when you started off with me like there's a
Speaker 1: rumor going around the internet, and I'm like, really, because
Speaker 1: I know the big rumor going around the internet. Now
Speaker 1: I just have to come out and ask you because
Speaker 1: I have my theories and I think I know. But
Speaker 1: are you guys filming the Real Housewives of Nashville? No?
Speaker 1: But are okay, we are not filming the real house
Speaker 1: of of of Nashville. We got asked to do a
Speaker 1: Real Houses of Nashville, um, and we said no like
Speaker 1: three times because you know me, like, I don't know
Speaker 1: much about the housewives. And the only reason I kind
Speaker 1: of entertained the one with Ted was because it could
Speaker 1: be fun to be like someone's like kind of sidekick,
Speaker 1: fun buddy that just kind of comes in the friend
Speaker 1: of the friend of Yeah, but to be when they
Speaker 1: were trying to cast the Real Housewives of Nashville, and
Speaker 1: they wanted they were interested in me as one of
Speaker 1: the characters. I was just like, no, like I you
Speaker 1: know me, Like I don't like girl drama. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be a part of it. I
Speaker 1: don't want to feed into it. I don't want to
Speaker 1: like I don't even want to be the runt of
Speaker 1: it where I like to make the girls felt like
Speaker 1: I just I don't. It's not me. I don't like
Speaker 1: it and it's not my it's not I can't stress enough,
Speaker 1: like when my I can't imagine yours because my d
Speaker 1: ms were flooded, and like I want to try back
Speaker 1: and be like I mean, off the top of my
Speaker 1: head no, because like it's so not you. But reality
Speaker 1: TV is you just not that kind? Yeah, so what
Speaker 1: it is is that what it is. So look, we
Speaker 1: are not saying no to reality TV. We know a
Speaker 1: lot of people have asked us to do a reality show.
Speaker 1: It's just about what kind of show it is, because
Speaker 1: I don't want it to be the like girls, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't want it to be like attacking girls. I'm
Speaker 1: fine with them coming in seeing our marriage, you know,
Speaker 1: the ins and outs and then how we kind of
Speaker 1: work through it and but still showing the drama. So
Speaker 1: we did film something, and you know, it's just a presentation.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he'll ever get picked up. And again,
Speaker 1: I don't even know if that's something that at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, if we will really do, because
Speaker 1: it's that's a you know, I mean, I know, I
Speaker 1: know we share so much on the podcast and so
Speaker 1: much here, but it could it's sometimes it's a kiss
Speaker 1: of death. So that's something that we have to also
Speaker 1: think about and you know, be careful of because we
Speaker 1: are like trying. You know, it's scary, it's a lot.
Speaker 1: And I also feel like depending on like you know,
Speaker 1: like you said, who picks it up, what network kind
Speaker 1: of shapes the way it goes in, Like is it
Speaker 1: going to be a fun couples series where this or that,
Speaker 1: or is it going to be like drama drama drama? Yeah,
Speaker 1: because again, like we're fine sharing our fights and stuff
Speaker 1: on here, but in front of millions when we're still
Speaker 1: trying to be like because our whole thing too is
Speaker 1: yes we have issues, No we're not perfect, but this
Speaker 1: is how we're getting through it. And I don't know
Speaker 1: if they would show that side of like this is
Speaker 1: how we're getting through it. And I'm sick of already
Speaker 1: the comments about how much wear train wreck, So I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to read even more. And Sarah, I
Speaker 1: was when we were filming the thing, I kept asking
Speaker 1: the producers and cameraman if we could turn it into
Speaker 1: a mockumentary so I can start looking at the camera
Speaker 1: like Jim in the office. I kept doing it, and
Speaker 1: you weren't having I was just like They're like, um no,
Speaker 1: the camera, we can't use it, like pretend we're not here.
Speaker 1: I'm like, my bad wanted to so bad, so they
Speaker 1: wanted They filmed kind of like a fight of ours,
Speaker 1: like what a fight would look like. And it was
Speaker 1: so funny because Mike was like, so they're like, hey,
Speaker 1: go in and you know, um, you know kind of
Speaker 1: you know, poke a little bit. So I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I got this. You're like easy, yeah, done, Okay. So
Speaker 1: I go in and I'm like, hey, so we walk
Speaker 1: in or I walk in, and it was about like
Speaker 1: kind of him leaving the golf trips. I'm like, hey,
Speaker 1: like are we are we clear with all the boundaries
Speaker 1: and stuff and you know. Mike's like, absolutely, honey, and
Speaker 1: I keep trying to like, you know, because I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm like I can act this to like I know
Speaker 1: how our fights are, but like I can act how
Speaker 1: our fights usually are. So I'm like I keep kind
Speaker 1: of poking him and he's like, oh, honey, absolutely, I
Speaker 1: when thousand percent agree with you. And I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: cut because this isn't to say, this is not how
Speaker 1: you are when the cameras are around. So we're going
Speaker 1: to cut this right now because I'm not going to
Speaker 1: look like just the crazy d one and you're going
Speaker 1: to look the same because you are like, I'm like,
Speaker 1: not happening. I was like, no, cut, and we're redoing
Speaker 1: this again. Was not surprised, but it wasn't like it
Speaker 1: wasn't like a conscious thing because cameras are rolling. It
Speaker 1: was more just like you know, we've we had already
Speaker 1: kind of talked about it, so and through all the
Speaker 1: therapy we've done, I'm trying to practice what a therapy says.
Speaker 1: And the producers like, no, you gotta give us like
Speaker 1: understand too. I'm like, you guys are just setting me
Speaker 1: back therapy right now, Like all ben't working on for years.
Speaker 1: You guys are gonna set me back. But it's still
Speaker 1: like we don't do it perfectly. So it's like showing
Speaker 1: that like those because I'm like, when have you ever
Speaker 1: done that? That's the thing. He's never done that. But again,
Speaker 1: but again, when we're filming it, I was like talking
Speaker 1: to you like this, and I'd be like, look at
Speaker 1: the camera like no, like like, okay, I hope we
Speaker 1: can see this footage one day or the other because
Speaker 1: I just feel like, like you're so natural. I feel
Speaker 1: like like we would all be like, wait, what's happening?
Speaker 1: Why is he an eye going to the left, Like
Speaker 1: there's no way, my kid ignore the cameras at least
Speaker 1: like during that part. But it was fun. I mean
Speaker 1: it was fun to kind of see, you know, just
Speaker 1: kind of feel that and kind of be like, okay,
Speaker 1: like this is going This would be what we would
Speaker 1: be doing, you know, and the cameras would be here
Speaker 1: while we're having this fight. But if he but if
Speaker 1: he is like pretends to be a saint in conversations,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm out, I'm not because I'm like I
Speaker 1: just want to be able to look at the camera.
Speaker 1: Why can't we just acknowledge them, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not reality because they're not supposed to be. No.
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of house husbands get like that,
Speaker 1: Like in the first season, everything's all calm and cool,
Speaker 1: but then as soon as like you get comfortable and
Speaker 1: you know, the cameras are gone, then it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: the gloves come off, like you forget everyone's always on
Speaker 1: their best behavior. I feel like, because you're so aware.
Speaker 1: Even Catherine, you know, James manager, will say, we'll like
Speaker 1: watch our interactions, like when we're getting ready before we
Speaker 1: already filming. She's like, this is when we need the cameras. Yeah,
Speaker 1: She's like, we need him before you actually get on camera,
Speaker 1: because then I'm just like, cameras wrong. You're like, yes, Hannah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I totally understand. I'm like, okay, whatever the love of
Speaker 1: my life needs to make her feel safe, I will do. So. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I don't know. The bottom line is, I don't
Speaker 1: know if we will. But we did film something and
Speaker 1: it was a presentation for a certain network, so we
Speaker 1: shall see. But I will not be on a housewives show.
Speaker 1: Yeah you heard it here. I'm so glad we got
Speaker 1: to clear this up, because even I message you, I'm like,
Speaker 1: that doesn't look like housewives lighting. And I don't know
Speaker 1: if they set up craft services in your garage, but
Speaker 1: I couldn't be wrong. Well, thanks for coming back on
Speaker 1: to clear up that rumor. I mean, this is what
Speaker 1: I'm really here for. Let's be like, let's be very clear. Well,
Speaker 1: now I know now I can sleep, Like now I
Speaker 1: can go by my day because I thought, how did
Speaker 1: I forget to bring up the biggest news? It's no
Speaker 1: biggest news is your babes in the belly? All right, Sarah? Okay, guys,
Speaker 1: that's so funny. Yeah, but it is something that we'll
Speaker 1: have to discuss because I think you like kind of
Speaker 1: like what you said, Like the hardest part about if
Speaker 1: we did do a reality show is because we come
Speaker 1: on here and we want to show it's like, how
Speaker 1: how would they portray us, you know, like just a
Speaker 1: total train wreck. Well that's not fair because that's not
Speaker 1: how we like. Yeah, we have train wreck moments, but
Speaker 1: we're not always like we we have fights. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: fight and they're not perfect, but we get through them
Speaker 1: and we get stronger and we grow and we and
Speaker 1: we do better in most of our arguments now, you know,
Speaker 1: do you sit down in every argument and say yes, honey,
Speaker 1: absolutely like you did in front of the cameras that day. No,
Speaker 1: not at all. Neither do I. But we we have
Speaker 1: more than those than we did in the past, So
Speaker 1: I think that I think people just need to creatively
Speaker 1: think differently, and we need to make it a documentary.
Speaker 1: Can just let me look at the crops? Sure? Well,
Speaker 1: that's a show for us today, See you next week.
Speaker 1: Later