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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the bobst Podcast. My guest

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Speaker 1: today is Dan Huff. We'll do somet of guitarists extraordinaire. Dan,

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Speaker 1: a lot to have you on the podcast. Thank you

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Speaker 1: very much, Bob, honored to be here. Okay, when we

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Speaker 1: were setting up the time, you say you were tracking

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Speaker 1: until six. What are you working on today? I'm working

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Speaker 1: on a young new artist. You will not have heard

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Speaker 1: of him. His name is cam Marlowe spelled with a

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Speaker 1: K and uh new one of the new kind of

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Speaker 1: breed of artists here in Nashville. He's staggering. He's an

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Speaker 1: alpha male vocalist, and by that I mean literally every

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Speaker 1: take he sings on the tracking session would be considered

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Speaker 1: a comp a first rate vocal He's that it's like

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Speaker 1: old school, old school type of recording. As a matter

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Speaker 1: of fact, he's so good that I encourage him to

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Speaker 1: get live vocals on the tracks, which is unheard of

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Speaker 1: these days. How did you get involved? Like I do

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Speaker 1: pretty much with everybody, every artist that usually the label

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Speaker 1: calls me and we'll say we have somebody that we're

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Speaker 1: really excited about and we think you'd be a good

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Speaker 1: fit for for the artist and they usually set up

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Speaker 1: a meeting and you know, usually goes over pretty well,

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Speaker 1: and then it's just working out the I don't develop

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Speaker 1: these artists. They they call me to make records that

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Speaker 1: sound like singles and and you know, I mean it's

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Speaker 1: such a cliche thing, but they want hit records, right,

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Speaker 1: So right, that's that's it's I put my shoes on

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Speaker 1: one at a time, right, and then you want to

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Speaker 1: make hit records. But so so it's it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like a shotgun marriage. You're you're you're trying to two

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Speaker 1: digest the music, the the the vision of an artist,

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Speaker 1: and you go in the studio and start. And so

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Speaker 1: that's it, you know, And that's that's kind of what

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Speaker 1: I've made a living doing the last years, all my

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Speaker 1: years of playing a studio sessions. Is a good tar player.

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Speaker 1: I had no idea, but it was only in preparation

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Speaker 1: for what I do. Now, Okay, let's droll down a

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Speaker 1: little bit. They say we want you to work on

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Speaker 1: this record, want you to make a record, They give

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Speaker 1: you the music. How long does it take to decide?

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Speaker 1: And sometimes do you say no? I do say no,

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Speaker 1: But that brings up a good point. I love to work,

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Speaker 1: so I'll default to yes more than not because I'm

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Speaker 1: fortunate that I have a track record. Labels are pretty

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Speaker 1: selective who they're gonna bring me. It's gonna be pretty

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Speaker 1: top shelf, and that sounds if it sounds up to it.

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Speaker 1: I don't mean it to be that way at all.

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Speaker 1: It's just it's I'm I'm I'm at a good point.

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Speaker 1: I should say that they bring me a really good

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Speaker 1: artists and uhan, once in a while it will be

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Speaker 1: a note. But but for the most part, you know,

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Speaker 1: if I can fit it into my schedule, it's it's

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Speaker 1: a yes, you know, and I've been doing it long enough.

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Speaker 1: Or I really enjoy the Rubik's cube of trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out where people are at musically. At my heart,

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Speaker 1: I'm a session musician, is what I am. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm not a UM Well, other people would argue and

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Speaker 1: say I'm a producer or heart, I see the world

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Speaker 1: through the prism of of a guitar and then it

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Speaker 1: goes out exponentially. But there's always a way to figure

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Speaker 1: out music, you know, And I've always enjoyed so many

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Speaker 1: types of music, so uh, it's it's not always predicated

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Speaker 1: on on on one thing or another. Obviously, I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: one of the older guys uh in in my business

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Speaker 1: right now. I'm I'm I'm way on the old side.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I remember being a young,

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Speaker 1: little snot nose guitar player in Los Angeles when when

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Speaker 1: I was in my twenties and I would see people

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Speaker 1: in their forties and think, what the hell are they

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Speaker 1: doing in the studio those old men? Yeah, yeah, by

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Speaker 1: by those by dog years. I'm I'm Methuselah right now.

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Speaker 1: You know, Okay, let's assume you get the music, you

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Speaker 1: say go, then you want to meet the artists. What

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Speaker 1: does that experience like? It like meeting anybody? I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know personalities. You many times you hear

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Speaker 1: somebody sing, you hear what they do musically, and it

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Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the person their personality when

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Speaker 1: you meet him in a room. More than not, most

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Speaker 1: people that I that I work with, they they they're big,

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Speaker 1: big personalities, and then you meet them and they're they're

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Speaker 1: they're shy, removed, you know. I mean, like I guess

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Speaker 1: like a lot of entertainers are. They they have specifically

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Speaker 1: that they do, and they have a language and and

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Speaker 1: my job at that point is not too um, it

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Speaker 1: is not to ingratiate them to me, It's I had

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Speaker 1: to figure out their language. I had to figure out

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Speaker 1: what they're trying to say. I mean, musicians don't always

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Speaker 1: use the same adjectives. Right. When somebody talks about something

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Speaker 1: being big and expansive, Well, I mean, what does that mean?

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Speaker 1: Big and expansive? Is that? Is that? Uh? Is that

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Speaker 1: led Zeppelin? Right? Right? Is that Vivaldi? I mean it's

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Speaker 1: you know, most of the time, my job seems to

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Speaker 1: be se figuring out what they mean by their adjectives.

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Speaker 1: I need somebody to sound more brown, I need to

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Speaker 1: sound more fuzzy, more more uh intimate? Well again, these

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Speaker 1: are these are these are adjectives that that that could

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Speaker 1: be applied to a lot of things. So you have

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Speaker 1: to figure that out first. You have to figure out

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Speaker 1: what they mean by what they say. A lot of

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Speaker 1: that can be done by listening to their demos, by

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Speaker 1: their previous recordings, if they've done that and you start

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Speaker 1: the conversation there. But it's I guess, I guess what

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Speaker 1: I'm coming to, Bob is it's it's it's different every time.

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Speaker 1: There's no one size fits all, and I guess that's

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Speaker 1: the thing for me musically, that's the that keeps me

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Speaker 1: engaged and interested in this whole thing, because, uh, if

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Speaker 1: it was the same thing every time, I'd get really bored.

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Speaker 1: And in saying that I live in Nashville, Tennessee, now

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'll just say it. I never in a

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Speaker 1: million years would have ever thought I would be involved

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Speaker 1: in country music. Right, let's go back the other thing

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Speaker 1: and then get back to country music. So you meet

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Speaker 1: the act, probably the act already wants to work with you.

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Speaker 1: How long does it take to have this conversation before

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Speaker 1: work on the album begins. It can be ours, it's

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Speaker 1: it's there's no rhyme or reason to any of this stuff.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if if it wasn't a perfect world for me,

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Speaker 1: we would meet several times. We would do rehearsals, we

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Speaker 1: would do pre production, we would spend time really diving deep,

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Speaker 1: getting to know one another, artist myself, doing demos, doing

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Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff way before we record records.

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Speaker 1: That's not the nature of the business. The nature of

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Speaker 1: the business is when these labels put you together with them,

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Speaker 1: they want it, they want it now, and they want

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Speaker 1: it they wanted successful immediately. Okay, so now it's a go.

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Speaker 1: What's the next step in making a record? Do you

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Speaker 1: have any rehearsals or you just go straight to the

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Speaker 1: studio normally. I don't get that. Most of these artists

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Speaker 1: are are are starting their touring already, so their time

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Speaker 1: is limited. The first thing is, you know, I want

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Speaker 1: to hear the songs you want to record. One thing

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Speaker 1: that I'm I'm not interested in doing is being an

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Speaker 1: A and our person. And traditionally in Nashville, the producers

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Speaker 1: were A and our instruments and and and many of

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Speaker 1: them were publishers, and so they would come in with

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Speaker 1: the songs, here's what we're gonna record. I have zero

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Speaker 1: interest in that. As a matter of fact, I think

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Speaker 1: it's I think there's a lot of I think I

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Speaker 1: got into this business because there was there was that

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Speaker 1: component that would would would constitute almost almost a uh.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to say it. It's it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's best if you just help them make their music.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be somebody's publisher. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to have uh incentive to from a financial standpoint. I

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Speaker 1: just want to help people make music. That's that's what

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Speaker 1: I like to do, right, And I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of artists when I started doing this, we're interested in

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Speaker 1: that because they didn't see a producer coming in with

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Speaker 1: another interest in having his songs recorded to help his

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Speaker 1: publishing company. As you said earlier, they hire you to

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Speaker 1: have hit records. When you listen to the demos, do

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Speaker 1: you only pull a project or do a project if

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Speaker 1: you hear a hit? What if you're in the studio

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Speaker 1: and there is no hit. I usually get interest interested

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Speaker 1: because I hear some element of their music that that

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Speaker 1: speaks to me. Most of the people that I work with,

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Speaker 1: they've they've come through the songwriting halls here in Nashville

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Speaker 1: and and they've usually graduated up to the upper tier.

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Speaker 1: And uh so they usually come in with really good music.

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Speaker 1: A lot of times you'll find out what you think

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Speaker 1: as a hit compared to the end of a project,

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Speaker 1: after you've realized the music it's not the hit, they're

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Speaker 1: they're hidden gems there. So I think that what I

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying is that you have to start the process,

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Speaker 1: you have to start making music. I mean, it's really

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Speaker 1: a sad thing if if we think we can cut

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Speaker 1: this down to some kind of algorithm. And and that's

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Speaker 1: what the business would would love for this to be right.

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Speaker 1: We we know exactly what's gonna happen A B C. D. Here.

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Speaker 1: You have this artist as things this good, you get

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Speaker 1: this writer right with them, then you get somebody like

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Speaker 1: me to come in and record the songs. That is

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Speaker 1: a recipe for for success. It doesn't always happen that way,

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Speaker 1: and usually there are sleepers when you record these records,

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Speaker 1: songs that emerge in the studio something that nobody would

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Speaker 1: have ever thought would would possibly be a contender. That's

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Speaker 1: the that's the that's the mystery of all this stuff.

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Speaker 1: So there is the agenda of a record label and

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Speaker 1: and management, and it's all good. It's you know, how

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Speaker 1: else can the business run? But there's the reality of

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Speaker 1: the way this goes. And that's the part that I'm

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Speaker 1: involved then, and it's it's just you get in there

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Speaker 1: and you start making music, and it's you don't know

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Speaker 1: how it's gonna go. That's the way. Needless to say,

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Speaker 1: since you've been doing this, this business has gone through

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Speaker 1: a wild transition with first file trading now ultimately streaming.

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Speaker 1: This has affected a lot of people's recording process. So

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Speaker 1: how has it affected you, if at all, in terms

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Speaker 1: of how much money and how much time and where

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Speaker 1: you record the records. Luckily, for me, I'm I've been

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Speaker 1: in the business long enough to where I can set

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Speaker 1: certain terms as far as budgets go, um, the process

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Speaker 1: of recording, I pretty much do what I've always done.

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Speaker 1: The business is being streamlined. You know this. Everybody now

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Speaker 1: is a producer, right, everybody with a laptop. I'm a dinosaur,

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Speaker 1: I think if you were before categorizing me as far

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Speaker 1: as the way I make music, I'm not. I usually

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Speaker 1: don't write with with artists. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: I never write with artists. What am I saying? I

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Speaker 1: quit writing when I quit my band. Everybody's a producer

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Speaker 1: with a laptop. The demos that come in are are

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Speaker 1: staggeringly good, right, So why does why would an artist

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Speaker 1: need somebody like me? At this point? I asked that

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Speaker 1: question all the time. You didn't ask this question. But

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Speaker 1: I'll kind of circle back kind of what we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: There's something that that Bob and our age group we

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Speaker 1: got to experience musically seventies, right, seventies, sixties, seventies, There

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Speaker 1: that was a renaissance of music. It preceded machines and

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Speaker 1: proceeded a culture and the record business. It was still

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Speaker 1: the wild, wild West, you know. And and with that

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Speaker 1: there was an innocence and there was a fearlessness in

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Speaker 1: making music that existed, and I think it really fostered

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Speaker 1: some of the great pop music of all time. And uh,

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Speaker 1: at this point, I think artists, young kids are speaking personally.

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Speaker 1: They they want to feel a piece of that. I'm

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Speaker 1: abridged to that. I'm not a laptop producer. I still

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Speaker 1: deal with live musicians. I think that's not the only

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Speaker 1: way to make music. But that's there's there's certainly something

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Speaker 1: in sitting in a room with other people. There's there's

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Speaker 1: you can you can't replace that exchange of ideas with

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Speaker 1: with with sitting in front of the laptop. It's it's

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Speaker 1: I'll keep coming back to this this the two words.

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Speaker 1: There's tension and there's mystery to it. You don't want

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Speaker 1: to know what's going to happen next, because it's not

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Speaker 1: just your mind, it's everybody else's mind. So it's a reaction.

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Speaker 1: It's there's something about that that process that is magical

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Speaker 1: in making music anyway, so we live in a business.

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Speaker 1: Your original question was how how is this all affected

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Speaker 1: now with the transition to stream me and whatnot. Basically,

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Speaker 1: I thinks streaming is the greatest thing for music because again,

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Speaker 1: it's it's pushing the boundaries, is saying that the funnel

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Speaker 1: that we go through is not small, it's huge. And

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Speaker 1: and as much as radio has been a phenomenal instrument

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Speaker 1: in getting music to people, there are gatekeepers that that

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Speaker 1: are involved in that process. And and there's too much power.

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Speaker 1: The democratization of of music through technology, as I think

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Speaker 1: it's been a wonderful thing. It's confusing. Um it allows

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Speaker 1: in a lot of mediocrity, but it also allows a

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Speaker 1: lot of people to have control over what they do. Um.

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Speaker 1: Record companies are playing catch up to that, and and

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Speaker 1: I think the first round of their decisions are to say,

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Speaker 1: let's just get They call it content, which is a

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Speaker 1: pretty spite forward and I hate that word. Just it sucks.

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Speaker 1: It's not content, it's music, right, they want the there's

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Speaker 1: an insatiable appetite for music now product content. That's a

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Speaker 1: problem because there's a lot of mediocrity. You can't just

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Speaker 1: make great music quickly. Sometimes it happens in a flash.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it happens over a long period of time. I'm

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Speaker 1: kind of the moderator with the projects that I do

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Speaker 1: on that process. Dinosaur. Yes, but but but we're gonna

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Speaker 1: find a chord of that music that that the artist

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Speaker 1: feels like that they're saying what they want to say.

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Speaker 1: Record company is gonna take it and do what they

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Speaker 1: gotta do with it. Sometimes it works for them, sometimes

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Speaker 1: it doesn't. Sometimes this this new process of just spitting

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Speaker 1: out these demos disposable music that works better for them.

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Speaker 1: I can't. I can't be the answer for all of

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Speaker 1: that stuff. Hopefully that that answers a little bit off

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Speaker 1: your question. I'm sitting down. That's a lot though. It's

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Speaker 1: all good. But let's go back to the nuts and bolts.

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Speaker 1: So you say, yes, you've met the act, you've listened

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Speaker 1: to the demos. How much is the budget that you

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Speaker 1: propose and how long does it take you to make

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Speaker 1: one of these records the budgets that I get. Can

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Speaker 1: I talk about some of this stuff to you? I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to think. I don't think I'm supposed to talk

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Speaker 1: about park because every deal is different. How long does

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Speaker 1: it take him? Is your budget A hundred thousand, three

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand, two hundred thousand. You know what that's That's

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Speaker 1: a great question. And this is an honest answer, even

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Speaker 1: though I preface it by saying I don't know if

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Speaker 1: I should talk about the truth is I don't a

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Speaker 1: hundred percent no, because I have a guy that does it,

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Speaker 1: and he usually he just he's been with me for

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Speaker 1: twenty five years. I know it's I know, roughly to

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Speaker 1: track a song in Nashville with you know musicians, your

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Speaker 1: union musicians that I use will be somewhere up from

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Speaker 1: twenty dollars just for the expenses. And I think that's mixed.

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Speaker 1: So what ten songs and you're talking about what two

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Speaker 1: fifty dollars? Right? Generally speaking? Are you making albums? Sort of?

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Speaker 1: Sometimes somebody come in and want one track or a

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Speaker 1: few tracks. For the most part, gladly I can I

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Speaker 1: can say that it's it's mostly album still to this point,

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Speaker 1: or what do they call collections now? Right, it's more

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Speaker 1: than it's more than eight songs, So it's a body

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Speaker 1: of work. Okay, So you have your read songs, how

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Speaker 1: much time do you need? Various? It just various. Cam

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Speaker 1: Marlow i'm working I'm working with now he's seen he's

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Speaker 1: seen live on the tracks, so if comp his vocals,

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Speaker 1: if they need to be comped from these live tracks,

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Speaker 1: that saves me weeks of doing vocal over depths. We've

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Speaker 1: determined this record is gonna be really simple. There's not

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Speaker 1: gonna be a lot of over depths after the fact,

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Speaker 1: so that again, some records take the I'm trying to think.

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Speaker 1: I just did a record with it with with an

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Speaker 1: artist named Kane Brown, who's a wonderful new hybrid kind

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Speaker 1: of artists. I don't know if you know that name.

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Speaker 1: We've been working on this record place for a year,

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Speaker 1: off and on. He tours all the time, so it's

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Speaker 1: not straight work. This record that I'm working on right now,

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Speaker 1: I probably have it done in six weeks. So they're

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Speaker 1: there there. None of them are the same for me. Well,

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Speaker 1: let me put it the other way. Look at it

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Speaker 1: from your perspective. You have a schedule. How do you

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Speaker 1: schedule all this stuff? That's the main dollar question. It

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Speaker 1: used to keep me up twenty years ago. It kept

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Speaker 1: me up at nights. I discovered ambient right that was

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Speaker 1: that was the only answer for me at that time.

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Speaker 1: It just does Bob. I don't. I don't, you know,

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Speaker 1: And sometimes you have to say to people, you have

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Speaker 1: to say, look, it's gonna take me a little bit longer.

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Speaker 1: You have to wait. That's the beauty of being a

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Speaker 1: senior in this business right now. I don't take advantage

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Speaker 1: of it. I don't. I don't. I'm not heavy with

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Speaker 1: that at all. Um and I have a wonderful relationship

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Speaker 1: with most of the label heads here. They're all my age,

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Speaker 1: and they know that I'm not gonna dick around with them,

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Speaker 1: with with their money, with with their schedules. I will

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Speaker 1: meet deadlines. I just want to know what the hard

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Speaker 1: deadlines are. And I and I usually I mean to

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Speaker 1: this day, I'm knock on some way around here. I've

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Speaker 1: i've never uh not delivered on time. But as far

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Speaker 1: as scheduling, I mean to this day. I don't have

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Speaker 1: an assistant. I'm I'm one of the holdouts. It's too

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Speaker 1: much work to have an assistant. So I do have

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Speaker 1: a production assistant who keep pays the bills and does

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Speaker 1: all that stuff. But that's it. It's just me. It's

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Speaker 1: a mom and pop shop here and I and I

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Speaker 1: actually do a lot of records so there's seven days

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Speaker 1: in a week, twenty four hours in a day. How

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Speaker 1: much you're working less than I did ten years ago.

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Speaker 1: But I've been hit a lot of saturdays lately. I

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Speaker 1: will say that normally I've been married forty years, so

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Speaker 1: in music years, that would be right exact. At least.

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Speaker 1: Sherry and my wife, my my girlfriend since that we

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Speaker 1: were fourteen years old. She's not in music business, and

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Speaker 1: that's probably why we're still married. But I decided a

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Speaker 1: long time ago, well i'll tell you a great little

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Speaker 1: a little story about you. Mind me a little anecdote

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Speaker 1: about Los Angeles. And we just moved out. I think

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Speaker 1: it was two two or three. We've been married a year.

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Speaker 1: I got out there was lucky enough to get in

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Speaker 1: the fast track right off the bat. I was living

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Speaker 1: my dream. My The only thing I want to do

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Speaker 1: is play guitar. About a year and a half, two

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Speaker 1: years in Sherry, I'll never forget. I know where I

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Speaker 1: was sitting on it, on which chair, which house we

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Speaker 1: lived in. She said, Hey, Dan, I love you, but

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna move back to Nashville. She said, this is

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Speaker 1: not really me. She said, we see still stay married.

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Speaker 1: I love you, but I would see you as much

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Speaker 1: as if you came home to Nashville and visited once

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Speaker 1: every too much. And and that was a real warning,

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Speaker 1: right And so my life has been one of balance.

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Speaker 1: And I've raised three kids and um now I have grandkids.

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Speaker 1: But I did, I did find out early that that,

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Speaker 1: like I used to do twelve hour days, I'll put

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Speaker 1: it that way, something suffers that at every point of life,

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Speaker 1: if if, if you're, if you're, if you're doubling down

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Speaker 1: on work, your family is gonna suffer and you've got

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Speaker 1: to make that up. So it's it's just a constant balance.

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Speaker 1: But right now, say I like to work, if I

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Speaker 1: have my way, I like to work between the hours

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Speaker 1: of eleven and six, kind of bankers hours for a musician. Now,

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Speaker 1: the past is history, But in retrospect, did it require

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Speaker 1: that much work twelve hours a day to achieve the

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Speaker 1: status you presently have? And we're the sacrifice is worth it,

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Speaker 1: no doubt, no doubt. I mean, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've been fortunate enough to be around what

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Speaker 1: I would consider greats at every facet of my recording career.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, it does, it does exact some some flesh

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Speaker 1: from you and there's no way to get good without

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Speaker 1: your ten thousand hours. So was it worth it? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was worth it. I think there's some other things

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Speaker 1: that I might have been able to accomplish had I

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Speaker 1: given a little bit more, but that would also wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have been worth the cost to me personally. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: let's go back to the studio. You mentioned earlier that

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Speaker 1: you have your regulars players in Nashville. Do you tend

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Speaker 1: to use players on all the records you make or

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Speaker 1: is it ever the guys in the band they're the

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Speaker 1: ones on the record. It's it's really whatever an artist

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Speaker 1: would like. And there's some artists that come in like

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Speaker 1: they'll and they'll they'll have a particular musician in their

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Speaker 1: band they know can cut it in the studio, and

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Speaker 1: they'll say, would you mind using I love that. The

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Speaker 1: problem is I've you know, I always maintained that I

388
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Speaker 1: have only so many ideas, so you have to change

389
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Speaker 1: the cast or else it's gonna sound like the same

390
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Speaker 1: record all the time. So how do you find new players?

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Speaker 1: Just steen around, just asking around. There's there was a

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Speaker 1: new player that I was working with today, a guitar

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Speaker 1: players in Nashville he's and he's homegrown. I I can't

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Speaker 1: believe that. I've never hardly met anybody in Nashville who's homegrown.

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Speaker 1: This guy. He's the age of my oldest daughter. And

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Speaker 1: his name is Chris Donnegan. And he's just on a

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Speaker 1: tip from an engineer who I've worked with for twenty

398
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Speaker 1: five years. He said, try this guy out. He sounds

399
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Speaker 1: exactly like what you're looking for. A bit irreverent, but

400
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Speaker 1: he's knowledgeable and he and he plays just just on

401
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Speaker 1: the fringes. And I said, okay, great, you know, and

402
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Speaker 1: that's it. He's locked in for life. Now he doesn't

403
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 1: know that, but he's locked in for life, whether he

404
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 1: likes it or not. But but truely, I mean truly,

405
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Speaker 1: do you you have to work. One of my heroes

406
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Speaker 1: in life is Mutt Lang and he was the guy

407
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Speaker 1: that talked me into being a producer. Wait wait, he

408
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: taught you one on one or he taught you because

409
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 1: you listened to the records, both both. I mean, it's

410
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Speaker 1: the greatest honor. When I got my first call to

411
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Speaker 1: play guitar from Mut Lane, that was it. I mean,

412
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Speaker 1: what else A little bit slower? What was that call?

413
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Speaker 1: For the first call? That mutt. Actually, I had moved

414
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Speaker 1: back to Nashville. I was playing in a band Giant

415
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Speaker 1: right by the way. Thank you for those more than

416
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Speaker 1: kind words, all hard felt, all true. Yeah, but that's

417
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Speaker 1: I mean, that was that was sweet. You know, so

418
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Speaker 1: and this you know You're gonna have to tie this

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Speaker 1: narrative because I'm jumping all around. I'm like, I got

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Speaker 1: it all in my head. Just keep going, Okay, great,

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Speaker 1: we had moved back. I thought I was gonna be

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Speaker 1: a rock star, moved back to Nashville to raise my kids,

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Speaker 1: be closer to extended family. Let's just stop for one second.

424
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: When your wife, Sherry said I'm gonna move back to Nashville.

425
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 1: What happened then? Did she move back? No? No, she

426
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: didn't she No, It's just I had to I had

427
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 1: to remember that I was in a relationship and I

428
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: you know, you have to cherish the things that you love.

429
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 1: I was cherishing music right I was given and I

430
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: just had to make sure that I balanced that and

431
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: I did. And she she it makes her sound like

432
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 1: she's a heavy she's not. She just she's just honest.

433
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 1: So and and quite honestly the best music critic too

434
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 1: that I've had because she's not a musician. She she

435
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: doesn't give rats. Asked about how much hours I put

436
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 1: into a guitar show. It's like does the song speak

437
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: to her or not? So anyway, Um, we're back in Nashville,

438
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 1: We're raising kids. I'm I'm gonna be a rock star.

439
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 1: So I thought this is right before Giant tumbled, and um,

440
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 1: Mutt Lange wanted to cut a record in Nashville. He's

441
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 1: loved I found out he loves Nashville. He he was

442
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: cutting a record on his ex wife. Her name is

443
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 1: Stevie and um, so he hired a bunch of Nashville

444
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: musicians and so it was not a rock record, which

445
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: is bizarre because I was not a country musician. Anyway,

446
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 1: we got to know each other in our our relationship

447
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: extended far beyond that. And I watched him work in

448
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:59,239
Speaker 1: various capacities, and and that guy could bring water from

449
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: a stone. He had no fear. He would lead you

450
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 1: to the musical Promised Land, whether you well, no, you'd

451
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: always like it. It was all on him. And yet

452
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 1: he had such a profound respect and a desire to

453
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: hear the ideas of all the people you worked with.

454
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 1: And it really had an effect on me. And I've

455
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: worked with some phenomenal producers. I mean, you know, I mean,

456
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: there's no way you can call one the greatest. There's

457
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 1: no greatest. But I would say he's one of the

458
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: most profound musicians I've ever worked with. We could argue

459
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: whether people are in his league, but he's at the top.

460
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it just I don't have an I don't

461
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 1: have enough vocabulary to say what I think about mud

462
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: life and as a person too. It's just he's the

463
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 1: quintessential music maker. That's just it. So I'm looking at

464
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 1: this guy and and and also just honored to be

465
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: part of making music with him. And he was the

466
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 1: one who said, you're a producer at hard Dan, you

467
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: should you should drop the guitar playing and produce records.

468
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: Well you didn't want to hear that. But what what

469
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: did he pick up on? I'm assuming because I haven't

470
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: really asked him. But but well, I'm an arranger at heart,

471
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: an arranger, so so the it's it's like I've always

472
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: liked making records to to to. If you're a musician,

473
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 1: you're a subcontractor, right You're you're hired to frame the

474
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: house you're a drywall guy, you're a plumber or whatever.

475
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: There's a certain artistic bent to each one of those

476
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 1: those disciplines, shall we say. And the record producer is

477
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: just the general contractor. He's he may be a he

478
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: may be a woodsmith himself, you know, I mean, or

479
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: a plumber, but but he it's his job to pull

480
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: the whole thing together and and it's his job to

481
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: make sure the house is built. That's what a record

482
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 1: producer does. And he just he he noticed some things

483
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: about the way that I related to the way he produced,

484
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: and he probably thought I'm I'm I'm guessing here, I'm projecting.

485
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,239
Speaker 1: They thought I would be a natural doing that, and

486
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: he was the one. Um he didn't get me my

487
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: first gig, but I was actually producing um a Mega

488
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,679
Speaker 1: Death record here in Nashville in the early nineties. It

489
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 1: was my my manager of Giant, Bud Prager, who got

490
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: me that that gig. He thought I'd be good to

491
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: work with Dave Mustain at the same time. Mutt was

492
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: producing Shania Twain at that time, and I was playing

493
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 1: on those records, and um, they were hanging out with

494
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: Faith Hill. It was a huge star at that time

495
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: in faith. It was. It was just kind of like

496
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 1: a drama. You know. Her producer was her fiance and

497
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: they split up, so she just didn't want to continue that,

498
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: you know, and I understand that. And and she was

499
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 1: looking for a producer, and Mutton and I were with her,

500
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: and they said, well, why don't you try Dan, and

501
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: she she had never thought of that. I was playing

502
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: on her records because I was living in Nashville this time,

503
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 1: and I, you know, I was supplementing my income, my

504
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 1: rock income, with playing sessions again. And so that was

505
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 1: the first thing. And you know, I mean, if if

506
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: Mutt Lange suggests you, somebody's gonna listen at that point,

507
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: and there you go. And that was the beginning of

508
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: of kind of my production in Nashville on country music.

509
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: And the irony is Mutt Lange, you know, his greatest

510
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 1: rock producer, you know, one of the greatest whatever you

511
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 1: want to call him. He was such a student of

512
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: Nashville music, of country music. As a matter of fact,

513
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: when he when he we we were in England working

514
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: on a record, and he he asked me what I

515
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: knew about an artist named Shania Twin And I said,

516
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: I don't know that much. I mean, I've heard some

517
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: music or whatever. She's she's gorgeous or whatever. That's about

518
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: the extent of what I knew about. I saw her

519
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: on videos and he said, well, I fancy her, and uh,

520
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: I said, that's great. So I was working on some

521
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: record with him in England at this time and he said,

522
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: he said, but you're not going to play on it.

523
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: And I said what? And he said, you don't know

524
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: anything about country music, which is so true. I didn't

525
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: even though I was living it. Grew up here in Nashville,

526
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: and I was living back in Nashville, I didn't know

527
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: a damn thing about country music. Funny thing was, I

528
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: got a call one day and it was, I think

529
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: the second day that he was tracking Shanai and Nashville

530
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: their first record. He he said, and I won't even

531
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: attempt a South African accent. But then you fancy coming

532
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: down and having a play. He's what he said, having

533
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: a play. And I said, I said, I thought you

534
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: said I didn't know how to play country music. He said, yeah, well,

535
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: I just want your wrist. Is that great? I just

536
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: want your wrist? So yeah, okay, But you know, if

537
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: we talk about the old guy because everything is different now.

538
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: There were producers that were you know, in the sixties,

539
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: they work for the label. Then everybody went independent. The

540
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: producers were mainly people leaving Nashville, which is a subculture

541
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: unto itself. But if we're talking about rock, the producers

542
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: were sort of they and our guys, and they would

543
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: also work with the music. Then we went to an

544
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 1: engineer producer. When you're an engineer, you learn that your

545
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: subsidiary and you don't make waves. And therefore when they

546
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: make records, it's harder for them to speak up with

547
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: their ideas. And what I'm leading to Ism is a

548
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: unique guy because in South Africa he started doing satellite records.

549
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: You know, before that they came to South Africa, they

550
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: would record them, they'd have them for a couple of

551
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: weeks and have the hit in South Africa. So this

552
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,719
Speaker 1: is a guy who can do everything. He can write,

553
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: he can sing, he can okay, and there are not

554
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: many people who can do that. So how did those

555
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: elements come across in the studio? You know, he writes

556
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: it's almost like, um, it's like he writes an acoustic guitar.

557
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: You know, it's like you know, he's like He's a hippie,

558
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: is what he is. He's just he's a beautiful hippie.

559
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: And um music has to work from an arrangement standpoint

560
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: from melody. If he and he he usually has to

561
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: translate on an acoustic guitar for him, whatever his influences were,

562
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: and he has he usually has an idea when he

563
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: comes in. I mean it's not always fleshed out, you know,

564
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: a full demo, but he has an idea. You know,

565
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: he's a he's an arranger. Again, I come back to

566
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: I think that's really what what great records are made of.

567
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: Because when you go back, and I'll just deviate for

568
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: one second, you go back and listen to fourties and fifties.

569
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: You just listening to those records. Quincy was making any

570
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: big band record, right, I mean they were. They were

571
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: doing these records with you know, two or three mics.

572
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: That was it. And it's all the arrangement. It's all

573
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: relations and ship oriented. That's the way Mutt makes records.

574
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: It's arrangement. It's it's melodies, rhythms, the way sounds are

575
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: all orchestrated and arranged, they fall together. It's not just

576
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: a blob of music and then you you find a

577
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: way to do and I'm using my hands here. Great

578
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: for your for your listeners, so they can't see a thing.

579
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: But but it's it's not about moving faders up and down.

580
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: If a piece of music doesn't doesn't sit logically, like

581
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: if you put all your faders flat on the board,

582
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: if it doesn't sound great that way, chances are you

583
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: don't have a great record. That that's what That's the

584
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: crux of Mutt lying, as far as I'm concerned, everything

585
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: when when we down to the point of okay, once

586
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: he's got a drum track and a bass track, right,

587
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: that's got a dynamically musically arrangement wise flow with a song.

588
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: You're pointing something as simple as an eighth note part

589
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: ching ching ching ching ching ching ching, Okay, a lot

590
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: of producers, that's over in five seconds because it's such

591
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: a obligatory part. Dan Dan Dan, dank dank. I mean,

592
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: come on, what is that with Mutt? That's everything. It's

593
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: slow motion. Every note has to relate to that kick,

594
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: snare and high hat in a certain way that makes

595
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: every one of these notes sound large into the best

596
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: that it can sound. It's not slop. It's arrangement within

597
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: an eighth note part. And that doesn't mean that it's

598
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: like if you were to put it on a computer

599
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: screen and on a grid, that it would line up exactly.

600
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: That's not what he's looking for. He's looking for the

601
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: foe right behind each one of those, so that the

602
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: duration of each note makes the drums sound bigger and

603
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: more rich, richer than than they than they sound. So

604
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: if you if you start there and then zoom out

605
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: everything that he does, every note that everybody sings has

606
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: to have that relationship to the next thing. And that's

607
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: why his records sounded so damn good. Does that make

608
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: sense at all? Is that absolutely? Absolutely? But trying to

609
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: dig in a little deeper, you were saying, when you

610
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: make records, you're not in a and our guy to

611
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: what degree since mud has those skills, you may not

612
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: have worked in the studio with him with this happened

613
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: where he said, no, we're gonna rework the song, or

614
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: we're gonna rewrite the song. No, no, no, Then then

615
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: I I didn't make that clear. I've been around you know,

616
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: popular hit music, so so everything is an a and

617
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: our involvement. I don't like to go and and like

618
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,919
Speaker 1: for a lot of Nashville artists, if they don't write

619
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: their own songs, you would go to publishers and and

620
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: listen to songs I would rather an artist. I I

621
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 1: am lucky because I get to work with artists that

622
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: usually write throwing music these days. As a matter of fact,

623
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 1: last I said, in the last fifteen years, almost almost

624
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: every artist that I work with either writes it completely

625
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: themselves or they co write. You know, and and so

626
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 1: you tell me what you want to record, you let

627
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 1: you have a conversation with the label about what songs

628
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: they think are gonna be hits. Right then I'm going

629
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: to accentuate that I'm not interested in that part of

630
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: the process. Now, once it comes into my hands, then

631
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: I'm then I'm on hands on for all of what

632
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: you would call A and R. At that point, we're

633
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: trying to make these songs the most impactful they can

634
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: possibly beat. I sound like kids. I just hate that

635
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 1: language about talking about hits. But you want something to

636
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 1: be impactful, so that if if from that in our perspective,

637
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm a involved on the record, and we

638
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: we we rework sections, add sections. I mean, if we

639
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: have to write it there on the spot. It's fine.

640
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just not interested in in doing a

641
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: label and our's job as far as starting from scratch

642
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: from here's eighty tunes and let's cull this down to

643
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: ten if that makes sense. Okay, you're in the studio

644
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: and you say, okay, this song needs a bridge or

645
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna start with the chorus? Are the acts ever resentful?

646
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: And frequently you have more success than the act. So

647
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: what's the vibe in the studio. It's all in how

648
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,959
Speaker 1: you explain it. I mean, it's it's relationship, right, it's

649
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: and and that's predicated on respect. I mean, I think

650
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: you you have to earn that, you don't demand it,

651
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: you know, like you know, as a matter of fact,

652
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 1: I quit. I took down all the in my studio

653
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: at the house, I took down all the plaques. Number one.

654
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: It started reminded me how old I was. Right, It's

655
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, that was yesterday, right, And so the

656
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: more you think about that, Okay, it was yesterday. And

657
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: I don't want some new artists or that matter, old

658
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: artists to walk into my studio and see this is

659
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 1: who I think I am, or or you know who

660
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: who they relate to needs to be me at that moment,

661
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: and I have to earn their trust and their respect.

662
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: And so most of the time, at least my experience,

663
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 1: these artists will give me. They'll be deferential enough. Some

664
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: of them, I have to tell them to quit calling

665
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: me sir, which drives me batshit crazy, But um, it's

666
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: a trust thing. It's like, I'm not afraid, I'm I'm

667
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: I've been around the block enough. I'll tell people right

668
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: off the bat. Look, you're gonna see you're gonna see

669
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: some of the limits of my creativity here. You're gonna

670
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: there's gonna be some things I say that are just

671
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: absolutely off mark, and I'm gonna I'm gonna fall on

672
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,919
Speaker 1: my face. If you can grant me that, I'm gonna

673
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: grant you the same thing. Because part of finding this

674
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: this thing we're looking for, whatever exists out there that

675
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,760
Speaker 1: we're reaching for, doesn't come with It doesn't always just happen,

676
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: and we can't let our egos dictate. You know, it's

677
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 1: not about being cool, it's about being effective and finding

678
00:37:55,280 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 1: that thing. And so you know anything you say, you're

679
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: the boss number one, and you know this artist that

680
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,479
Speaker 1: I was working for today. What he's twenty four years old,

681
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: He's he's ultimately the boss. It's it's his record, is

682
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: his face. It's gonna go on this thing. I'm gonna

683
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: go on and do other records past this point. So

684
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: I gotta listen very intently to what he's saying. And

685
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: if I hear him him him say an idea that

686
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: I don't think is gonna work, I have to discipline

687
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,839
Speaker 1: myself to not just say no, no, that won't work.

688
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: I've seen that happen that here. Here's here's another good

689
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: thing about being a studio player for for decades. I

690
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: got to see great producers and I got to see

691
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: really bad producers. It's like classroom. You know what doesn't work.

692
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: The one thing that works is respect. You know, and

693
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 1: and and and when you give it, you usually get it.

694
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: Today I tried a couple of ideas that absolutely just suck.

695
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 1: There's no other way to do it. It's okay. We

696
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: ended up finding it by the end of the session.

697
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: Right on. The track came out fantastically, But it became

698
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: It became that way because the artist was willing to

699
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 1: trust me to go down a few rabbit holes. I

700
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 1: thought one thing is gonna work. What absolutely ended up

701
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: working was something that none of us thought was gonna work.

702
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 1: But it would never have happened had we not tried

703
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: some of these stupid ideas that I had. So that's it.

704
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: And and circling back to mutt uh Mut, I noticed

705
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: never panicked when you hit a dead end in the studio,

706
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: um and I and I and I experienced it a

707
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 1: lot of times as a musician. You know that that

708
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: horrible feeling like this, this is not happening, and people

709
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: are starting to look around, and and you know, it's

710
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 1: like what do you do now? It's it's not happening.

711
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: And I've been in a couple of situations with more

712
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: than a couple of situations with producers who you know,

713
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 1: it's exposes them if they don't have an idea, you know,

714
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: what do gonna do? Well, the next thing is to

715
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: blame somebody, blame a player. This sucking thing, doesn't you know,

716
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: it's like, come on, do something. Mutt Lang never went

717
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: to that place. It was just we're gonna get there,

718
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 1: hang hang with me. Let's just you know, talk about

719
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: a bar. And so here I enter, I enter my

720
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: production world with you know, the monkey of all monkeys

721
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: on my shoulder. It's like I've worked with Mudd Lang

722
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 1: and I know it great is I'm not anywhere close

723
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: to that, But you see what I'm saying. I mean,

724
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: it's like, absolutely you get to that point, you go

725
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: anything that I do, number one, I'll never reach that level.

726
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 1: But but that's how that's that's the way to conduct

727
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 1: yourself making music. And at least you have to have

728
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 1: that kind of credibility once you see it, an experience

729
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 1: that that you can never go back. So when you

730
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 1: hit a dead end, what did Mutt do or what

731
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: did you learn from what to do? Take time? Step away, Yes,

732
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: like just beating a thing into the ground is pointless.

733
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: Step back, get a different perspective, Go have a meal,

734
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 1: Go have a cup of coffee or whatever. Step back,

735
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: look at the painting from another angle, Turn it again,

736
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: keep looking at it. All of a sudden. If I mean,

737
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: this is not rocket science, right, I mean we're not

738
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:26,439
Speaker 1: We're not this is not Bach. We're doing pop music here.

739
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: There's a there's a limited scope. And if if you

740
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,399
Speaker 1: can find that, if you just mean number one, if

741
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,399
Speaker 1: you're around people that are proficient, I hire a really

742
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: good musicians, musicians. Most of my things are way better

743
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: than myself. Just give that a minute. Something's gonna come

744
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,399
Speaker 1: up and present itself. And like I said a minute ago,

745
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: it may not be the exact answer, it may not

746
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: be the exact route, but it may be something that

747
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 1: that that takes you into that that area that you'll

748
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 1: you'll you'll see what the final answers and the solution is.

749
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: Patience is the main thing. We were a couple of

750
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 1: your bad ideas. Today I think back, I can't remember it.

751
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: Luckily I can forget all that stuff. There was a

752
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: after the first course. There was I was well on

753
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: to this idea that I hate making just music that's

754
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: predicated for the radio. I was on a rant about that.

755
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 1: You know, it's like what am I saying here? Radio

756
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 1: has fed in my family all these years, but um,

757
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 1: we need to double that up. We need to take

758
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: time with this thing. And we we ran in and

759
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: the artists basically the end of the song we didn't undertake.

760
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: He said, I just think that sounds way too long,

761
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: and I said, yeah, you're you're, you're absolutely right, but well,

762
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 1: you know, just that the really bad ideas have been

763
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 1: reserved for modulations. I grew up like in Barry Manilow,

764
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: so I was like all that that dramatic stuff. Now,

765
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 1: if you could talk about the eighties when there was

766
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: unlimited money, they would be in the big studio. They

767
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: get a drums down, they build it, they cut the basics.

768
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: How do you do it? Hire great engineers. I hate

769
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 1: waiting and you know that great drum sound. Here, here's

770
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: here's my take on it. Like there is no the best.

771
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: I'll just say that, right, it's all relative to the

772
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: setting that it's in, right you. I remember listening to

773
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: a police record. Those sounds were great because they were

774
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,240
Speaker 1: predicated on the band itself. He listened to van Halen.

775
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: Totally different thing. It's predicated on van Halen. Oh here, okay,

776
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: great example here. I remember playing on a on a

777
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: Pattie smythe record in the eighties, and the ron Nevison

778
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: was the producer, talk about a history and a list

779
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: of credits. The other guitar player was this little known

780
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 1: guy named Eddie van Halen. Right yeah, And and when

781
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 1: when he mentioned that Eddie van Hamlen was playing on

782
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:03,320
Speaker 1: some tracks, I almost I almost just soiled my nappies.

783
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 1: Basically I got to the studio and the only thing

784
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: I cared about was hearing what Eddie van Halen did,

785
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: because I was such a massive fan. Right, and Ron

786
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: pull up the tracks and he was playing me some stuff,

787
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: and you could tell that it was Eddie. But it

788
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: was interesting because he didn't turn the guitar up like

789
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: anywhere close to the volume that he that that it

790
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: would have been turned up in a in a power trio,

791
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: right van Halen. It was. It was Eddie's guitar, drums

792
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: and then bass, so the bottom end was even it

793
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: was even subservient to his guitar sound. Well, in this

794
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:45,240
Speaker 1: it was big drums, big loud bass, and then Eddie's

795
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 1: guitar in there. So it was Eddie because you know,

796
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: if you if you worshiped him slash studied him like

797
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: I did, you knew it was him. But it was

798
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: not the same experience. It was the same sound when

799
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: he is solated. It was there's Eddie van Halen contextually, right,

800
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: it was. It was less in volume and in the

801
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 1: elements that were around it. We're not the same, so

802
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,439
Speaker 1: it was a different Eddie van Halen. So that what

803
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: we what everybody calls the brown sound related differently to

804
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 1: that setting. Right That's that's the world of production right there.

805
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: That's that's everything. It's everything is related. It's like what

806
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: I was talking about a minute ago in arrangement. It's

807
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 1: the way that it relates to the next thing. So

808
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: if you set your bottom end, your drums, your base

809
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: a certain way, then the guitar sounds to really poke

810
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: through and be effective have to cut through from a

811
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: different standpoint. Eddie van Halen's guitar sound was this massive beast.

812
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 1: It was a it was a whale of a sound

813
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,399
Speaker 1: with all this bottom end and and this girth that

814
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: didn't relate the same way in the setting that Ron

815
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: had had had queued up for for this. Patty smythe

816
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 1: record Mutt Lange, by the same token, would take little

817
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 1: guitar sounds that, in the context of a record like

818
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: that would sound massive, but if you sold them, they

819
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,720
Speaker 1: were these much more. They weren't miniature, but they didn't

820
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 1: have the girth of Annettie van Halen sound. So when

821
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: you say how do I do records, I get a

822
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,280
Speaker 1: great engineer. I try to be specific about the direction

823
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 1: of the sound that we're going. And because I'm a

824
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 1: guitar player, and I make a lot of guitar sounding records.

825
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: I can dominate that conversation. I hire a lot of

826
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: guitar players that it's you know they we we have

827
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 1: a camarader and we can speak. We speak guitar talk fluently.

828
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: Do you work with the same engineer or do you

829
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: want to mix it up or what's your philosophy there?

830
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: I like to mix it. I have to mix everything

831
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: up because again, if I because of the amount of

832
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: records that I do, it would it would be boring

833
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: very very soon. I have a I would say that

834
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: I have four or five engineers that I like to

835
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 1: track records. I'm a little more limited on the on

836
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 1: the mixing. I I've gone back to UH an engineer

837
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: named Justin ee Bank. I don't know if you know

838
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: credits from Nashville, but if you look at them, Bob,

839
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: it's it's staggering. He's a Chicagoan that came through the

840
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,399
Speaker 1: whole jingle thing and moved to Nashville. I met him

841
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 1: when I did my first Keith Urban record and we

842
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 1: haven't been a part since. I do have other mixing

843
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 1: engineers who are great and not but Justin and I

844
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: seem to really have a kind of just a language

845
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: and and he's he's a musician, and uh, we just

846
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,720
Speaker 1: make records a different way. Same thing on on the

847
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 1: guitar players. I have about five in each instrument. It

848
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: seems to to me that that uh, I kind of

849
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 1: gravitate towards Okay, so let's just assume the engineer gets

850
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: the sound in the studio. How do you like to

851
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: build the record? Do you start? You know, you ever

852
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 1: make a record with a whole band in the room,

853
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 1: or you always start with the drums out. I make

854
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,879
Speaker 1: records usually with the whole band in the room. That's

855
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,399
Speaker 1: that's what people tend to want me to do. They

856
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: want a live situation. You know, even if we have

857
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 1: a lot of like what I call preproduction or you know,

858
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: tracks that we have to work with, they still want

859
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 1: that feel of a band. That's usually what I do.

860
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 1: So you going and you get basic sounds from each instrument,

861
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: and the guys that I hire come in with an

862
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 1: arsenal of of of equipment. That's that's top notch, right,

863
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 1: So you know you're getting great sounds. It's not like

864
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: you're hiring a band that don't have instruments and you're

865
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 1: having to rent amps and all that kind of stuff.

866
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:45,439
Speaker 1: So and you know, you know, I like it that way.

867
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 1: It's not that I won't use studio musicians. As a

868
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 1: matter of fact, sometimes when you hire people who don't

869
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,959
Speaker 1: play in the studio or just live musicians, you get

870
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: you get a different flavor. That's great. Do I have

871
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,879
Speaker 1: the same amount of patients that I had twenty years ago? No?

872
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 1: Am I as interested in doing bands? No? I'm just not.

873
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: You know, that's that window is closed. Not saying that

874
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do a band, but sitting endless hours in

875
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: the studio just trying to get a decent drum sound

876
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: or decent guitarist sound. I'll leave that to some you know,

877
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 1: some younger folks. Okay, do you read music? And do

878
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 1: your studio musicians read music? I read poorly, always have.

879
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,919
Speaker 1: I'm a guitar player. Uh. As a matter of fact,

880
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: I almost didn't move to Los Angeles because I thought

881
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 1: that you had to be a much better reader. And

882
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 1: luckily I had a guy said, nah, that you can.

883
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,800
Speaker 1: You can fake it. They want you for your ideas.

884
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:45,360
Speaker 1: Um in Nashville, it's it's if you heard that number

885
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: system that's used here, no explain it. Yeah, it's it's

886
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: it's instesting, it's music theories. What it is that people

887
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: think it's this weird thing that it's just basically, if

888
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 1: you have a scale right, say you're in the key

889
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,320
Speaker 1: of cf C D E F G A B C

890
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 1: right one, two, five, six, seven, eight, the one chord

891
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 1: would be a C cord, The four chord would be

892
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 1: an F chord, the five chord would be a G chord.

893
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 1: There you go. The sixth chord would be an a

894
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 1: minor chord. If you're it's music theory, you know, I

895
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 1: mean without going into it. So the way I understand it,

896
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: I'm not real big on my music history in Nashville,

897
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: but acts would come in and record there. It's a

898
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: touring uh, basically publishing town. Acts would come in, they

899
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: do their records on Mondays in Tuesdays, and they'd be

900
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 1: out on the road the rest of the week. So

901
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: there was not a lot of pre production. So you know,

902
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:39,959
Speaker 1: if you're doing a song, if you write a chart

903
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 1: out saying the key of of a singer would price

904
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 1: sing it in D flat right, Well, the singer comes in,

905
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 1: they want to sing it in the natural. If you're

906
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 1: looking at a chart and you're looking at a D

907
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 1: flat and you're having to play in the natural. There

908
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,320
Speaker 1: are musicians who can do that wonderfully, but guitar players

909
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 1: not so much. You know some who could, but but

910
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 1: for the most part they so they developed this thing.

911
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 1: That's it's it's a number system. Basically, wherever one is,

912
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,399
Speaker 1: that's your key, right, So you're not looking at courts,

913
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 1: you're looking at numbers. So if we're in D flat,

914
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: one is D flat, right, that's it? And and and

915
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 1: then you five is a flat, Well you want to

916
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 1: move it to the key of E. You still got

917
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: your number chart one, there's E. Five is B. I

918
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 1: don't know if that sounds more complicated or not. No, no,

919
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,280
Speaker 1: especially if you do it every day. I get it completely.

920
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: It's an alternative system as opposed to reading notes on

921
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,280
Speaker 1: the staff. For me, I just memorize stuff. I mean again,

922
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: it's it's how hard is this stuff? It's like you

923
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:45,880
Speaker 1: listen to it once or twice and you got it

924
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: to each his own. I would say. There are some

925
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: musicians that I work with that will come in and

926
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: they will they will write out the actual chord symbols

927
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 1: and and some musicians that I work with that that

928
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 1: prefer not to read at all. You know, it's just

929
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 1: whatever whatever it takes to get to that point. I'm

930
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 1: not a real stickler on it before mixing. How do

931
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 1: you know when a track is done? Instinct? You know,

932
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:12,920
Speaker 1: I mean that's pretty subjective, right when you when you

933
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: take the mantle of the producer. It's when I say

934
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: it's done, you know. And then and then I turned

935
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 1: to the artists, gope, you think it's done, it's we

936
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 1: know nothing still. That's that's the beauty of it. It's

937
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: a humbling job at any juncture. It's just anybody that

938
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:35,919
Speaker 1: says they know this ship is, they're full of ship.

939
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: I'm just telling you that you you you take your

940
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: best guesses, right, people pay me for my best guesses.

941
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 1: And somebody's got to say when you stop you talk

942
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 1: about copying vocals, You pretty much do that on every record.

943
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: I'm hands on. Yeah, that's the main instrument on the record.

944
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: So yes, I I look at the voice like like

945
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 1: it's an It's an instrument. Everything is an instrument to me.

946
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: So I'm listening to the sound of the voice, the

947
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 1: way that the way the vowels and consonants sound, the

948
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 1: way the rhythm against the track, the tonality. There's so

949
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 1: much into to a human voice, and so I comp

950
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,839
Speaker 1: based on that, based on the way it sounds. To me,

951
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: most artists that I work with really like the way

952
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 1: I comp vocals. I mean it's personally I would rather

953
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 1: not have to to have to do that, but but

954
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,919
Speaker 1: it's it's you know, it's a recording. When people say,

955
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 1: you know, people, he used to drive me crazy when

956
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 1: I played guitar solos. The first thing they would say

957
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: the g I t students? Right, how many takes to

958
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 1: take to get get to that solo? Is that? What

959
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: does it matter? It's a recording. It's like did you

960
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:49,760
Speaker 1: get what you wanted to say? It's like a painting.

961
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 1: You don't ask a painter how long it took it

962
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,439
Speaker 1: into paint? Something is it? Is that what you meant

963
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:57,839
Speaker 1: to say? Vocals are that same thing. You can sing

964
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 1: a song a hundred times and you're gonna saying it

965
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 1: slightly different every time. Right. My job is to figure

966
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:09,879
Speaker 1: out what's the most effective, and I tend to hear

967
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:13,919
Speaker 1: vocals as instruments. Do you ever leave the mistakes in?

968
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes things could be copped to the degree

969
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: they lose humanity. So so true. I guarantee I have

970
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 1: aired it made more mistakes. And that the greatest thing

971
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 1: that I ever had said to me early in my

972
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 1: production career. Again, the monkey on my shoulder is the

973
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 1: presence of Mutt Lang, who I you know, just holding

974
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 1: such a high est team. I could never make records

975
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 1: like that, but I'm trying, and it's he's right there.

976
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 1: He would laugh at that, right, but he's right here

977
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,760
Speaker 1: on my shoulder. I was working with Keith Urban, who

978
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: is a brother, and we we really came up through

979
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:59,399
Speaker 1: the ranks together and I owe him a lot. But

980
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: there are is a story that we were we were

981
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: doing a record and and uh, he got really angry

982
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 1: at me, heard this confident and he and he goes,

983
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 1: you made me sound too fucking good, and I was,

984
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 1: I was so I was. It didn't compute. And this

985
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 1: is how dense. I was right, I didn't compute. Well,

986
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 1: excuse me for making you sound he said great. I

987
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 1: don't think he said good. He said to fucking great.

988
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: Whatever he said, it took a while to realize what

989
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 1: he was saying. He wanted the tension, he didn't he

990
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 1: didn't want it to be perfect. He wanted to feel

991
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: like it was going off the rails. It was. It

992
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 1: was probably this one of the most single, singular moments

993
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 1: in my production career that meant more to me musically

994
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,959
Speaker 1: than than probably anything, and it's affected me. So to

995
00:55:54,120 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 1: answer your question, where I've landed his tension. You want

996
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:10,359
Speaker 1: to feel music that makes you feel like you'rere and

997
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: this is hard to do and I don't do it

998
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 1: all the time, and said, this is my aspiration, right, So,

999
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 1: because you hear some of my music I've made and go,

1000
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: you've missed the mark. It's the aspiration. You want to

1001
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 1: feel something that it's both known and unknown. You want

1002
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 1: to feel like you're on a track ready to possibly

1003
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 1: go off the side of the track. You don't want

1004
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 1: to be so safe that there's not a bit of

1005
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 1: mystery and and danger to your to your to your journey.

1006
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: Right So in comps, yes, that's true. I mean you

1007
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:46,239
Speaker 1: can you can make vocals sound too perfect and they're boring, right,

1008
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 1: you also have to You're also answering to an artist

1009
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 1: too and what their threshold for how they want to sound.

1010
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:55,319
Speaker 1: So in a perfect world, though I like the yin

1011
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 1: and yang of of it, of of the impact and

1012
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,320
Speaker 1: of of something being great and yet there being a

1013
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 1: vulnerability at the same time to it. And again subjective.

1014
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 1: None of this stuff is is something that we can

1015
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: objectively say, Yes, this is the definitive answer here. I mean,

1016
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 1: you're in your home studio. Now, people can't see that,

1017
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 1: uh listening. But do you cut all in one room

1018
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: or you just got basics in one room and then

1019
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 1: you go to another room which is cheaper? How do

1020
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 1: you do? I record bands downtown in Nashville and proper

1021
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 1: studios because they're set up for that. You know, it's easier.

1022
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: You get a bunch of people. I'm in a residential

1023
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: neighborhood here, So in my studio I have a great

1024
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: vocal booth. Actually the control room is a vocal booth

1025
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:40,479
Speaker 1: in a in and of itself too. It sounds great

1026
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 1: in here. So they can either stay be in a

1027
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 1: vocal booth or they can sit here in the control

1028
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 1: room with me. We put on some headphones I have

1029
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 1: around me, you know, guitar player, so I have all

1030
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 1: my guitars and amps here, have all that stuff, your keyboards,

1031
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 1: so so I I go go down like on a

1032
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 1: typical record and records. If we we say, let's just

1033
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 1: say ten tracks for for example, take me five days

1034
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 1: six days to get that the basics the structure of

1035
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 1: the record tracks. I then take a hard drive from

1036
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 1: that back to my house and then we do vocals here.

1037
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: I'll do my guitar overdubs here, incidental overdubs. A lot

1038
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 1: of times I have some some harmony background singers who

1039
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 1: this is beautiful introduction because of technology. I'll I'll call

1040
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 1: him up. And doing background vocals sometimes can be like

1041
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 1: watching paint dry. You know, if it's just harmonies, it's like,

1042
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's got a great singer. Hey, I need

1043
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 1: you to sing the third above, maybe a little bit

1044
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 1: below heart here, do this, here, do that. If you

1045
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 1: have some extra stuff you want to do, I'll send

1046
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 1: them over the internet. I'll send them you know, the

1047
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: tracks and and and bounce down and they'll send it

1048
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 1: back to me. Then I'll critique that and we'll we'll

1049
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 1: we'll be more specific and we'll get it. That way.

1050
00:58:58,320 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 1: It saves me a little bit of time. But yeah,

1051
00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 1: i'd say i'd say sevent of making a record I

1052
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 1: do here in my house. And as far as the

1053
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 1: studios you cut basics in. Is it always the same

1054
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 1: one or you don't care? I don't care. As a

1055
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:17,960
Speaker 1: matter of fact. Again, it's just you know, it's decent equipment.

1056
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 1: I'd rather not be in the same place. I mean,

1057
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 1: there's some great studios here in town. But you know,

1058
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 1: I've been in studios since I was a kid, and

1059
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: it's I've never studio has never made a hit record,

1060
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 1: you know. Okay, So you're mixing engineer. Does he have

1061
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 1: his own room? He does? Okay, How involved are you

1062
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 1: in the mix in the process? Where do you say,

1063
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 1: take a whack at it, then let me hear it.

1064
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,960
Speaker 1: By the time I send him what I've what I've

1065
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: landed on, it's in a pseudo mixed state. Um and

1066
00:59:54,960 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 1: I work on pro tools, and so I wanted to

1067
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 1: sound it's to me, it's like taking a polaroid. I

1068
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 1: wanted to be that concise. I wanted to be almost

1069
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:11,440
Speaker 1: the thing. So when I send it to my mixing engineer,

1070
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 1: he knows of my intent and he's and he and

1071
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: he gets It's not like like in the old days

1072
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 1: where you send a tape and and you have to

1073
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 1: pull up faders. Okay, Well, here's the kick drum. Here's

1074
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 1: the base. When he pulls up a session, he's hearing

1075
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: the last thing the way that I that the artists

1076
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 1: as signed off, the labels signed off when they hear

1077
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 1: the rough mixes. So it's in a what I would

1078
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 1: call a more than a rough mix. It's it's it's

1079
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's close to a mixed state.

1080
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 1: It's sub mixed. I should say that, and then then

1081
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 1: yes with with with the guy that I mentioned justin Kneebank,

1082
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 1: he always has he knows he has the freedom too mute,

1083
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 1: things to changed to do. You know, I want I

1084
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 1: want his take on it. I want his reaction to it.

1085
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 1: But but it's not like it's a blind reaction to it.

1086
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 1: He knows pretty much where I'm what I'm thinking about

1087
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 1: this point. Okay, so he fixes alan, he sent you

1088
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:22,040
Speaker 1: his mix. How long does it take to get to

1089
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 1: a final Sometimes he gets it first take. It's staggering

1090
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 1: how good he is. There are other times where it's

1091
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 1: it's great. We just went through something. The artist signed

1092
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: off on it, the label signed off on it. But

1093
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:37,880
Speaker 1: I still had quite a few things that I wanted

1094
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 1: to try. So we we then went to a proper

1095
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 1: studio downtown. Well, I guess we could have gone to

1096
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 1: his house, but we went somewhere in Nashville and we

1097
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 1: sat for three four days and we just we just

1098
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 1: made moves like like kind of the good old days,

1099
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 1: and we had a great time, great laugh just hanging

1100
01:01:54,880 --> 01:02:00,920
Speaker 1: out together. Um again, it's that collaboration. It's it's it's

1101
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 1: the things that you don't know that you're gonna do

1102
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: when you're sitting listening in a room with somebody else

1103
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 1: listening to the same thing. We do a lot of

1104
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 1: what he calls living room. He likes he he likes

1105
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 1: to turn on a mix after he's been working on

1106
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:15,720
Speaker 1: it for a day. He turns in a very low

1107
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 1: he listens at a very low decibel level, and he'll

1108
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 1: sit in the back of a room, almost like there's

1109
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 1: music playing on at a party, and we'll just listen

1110
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,560
Speaker 1: to it and eat lunch or just talk. And more

1111
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 1: things come out from that configuration than sitting in front

1112
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 1: of UH speakers and being just absolutely dedicated to listening

1113
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:37,920
Speaker 1: to a mix and we just we we It's basically

1114
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 1: you just fudge around with something and too it's like, well,

1115
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:42,720
Speaker 1: I got nothing more to say about it, and then

1116
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:46,240
Speaker 1: we're done. You know what about mastering. I got a

1117
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: guy that I've worked with for years and I can

1118
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:51,360
Speaker 1: truly say I've only been up to Gateway one time,

1119
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 1: up in up in uh Main, Yeah, and Bob was

1120
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:00,440
Speaker 1: one of the great rock mastering guys with there. So

1121
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 1: I started using him. And there's a he's so busy

1122
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 1: that there's got named Adam that worked for him, Adam

1123
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 1: an that just started sending records and he was sending

1124
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 1: me back his first you know, his run throughs, and

1125
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 1: it's like, well, that's done. I'm not gonna go up there.

1126
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 1: It's the most perfect scenario. Again, there are other great

1127
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 1: mastering places. Stertling is staggering, you know, it's like but

1128
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 1: but by and large he's he's like he's like an

1129
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 1: automatic and we've done enough records together. It's like very settled. Me.

1130
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 1: Do I hear something go? It's once in a while

1131
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:38,560
Speaker 1: I'll say, hey, back off the compression a little bit,

1132
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 1: or maybe it sounds like we we got cocaine highs.

1133
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 1: You know, it's like it's you know, it's a little

1134
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:47,080
Speaker 1: bristling on the top end. But no, I'm looking for

1135
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 1: as many ways that I can. It's not reduce the workload,

1136
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:54,560
Speaker 1: it's just to reduce to to pinpoint where I can

1137
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 1: be most effective. And just sitting in a mastering studio

1138
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 1: after I've worked on a project for my it's mixed it,

1139
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:04,400
Speaker 1: It's like, I, No, I'm not gonna do that. Are

1140
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 1: you a gear head? I don't know if you saw

1141
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:08,919
Speaker 1: the guitars and amps. I mean to some degree, I'm

1142
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 1: not a collector. And I used to put it this way.

1143
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:16,920
Speaker 1: I used to shoot out Mike's every record. You know,

1144
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 1: you're bringing an artist in and you have ten mics

1145
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: out there in the studio from the rental company, and

1146
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 1: they're singing a verse in the course of each one,

1147
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 1: and then you sit there and I realized that at

1148
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 1: the time, I chose one Mike. And I heard a

1149
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:33,200
Speaker 1: story about a friend of mine going down to a

1150
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:35,960
Speaker 1: hip hop studio down in Atlanta. He wanted to go

1151
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 1: into the mic clocker, you know where you get choose

1152
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 1: all your mics, course, and the guy said, yeah, he

1153
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:44,480
Speaker 1: said that we got a Mike locker, and he showed

1154
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 1: him to the mic locker and he opened the closet

1155
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 1: door and there was a mic and it was when

1156
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:55,480
Speaker 1: Ding Ding ding ding ding ding ding. So I found

1157
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 1: the mic that I like to use. I I just

1158
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:00,480
Speaker 1: I like a T six nine him in too six nine.

1159
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 1: I found just a premium just tweeked old vintage mike.

1160
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 1: And that's the mic. You know, Well, I use an

1161
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 1: SM seven or if I use whatever. If I go

1162
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 1: to other studios, yeah, I use whatever they got. I

1163
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 1: got this great mike. And course a lot of the

1164
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:18,120
Speaker 1: artists that I go, you know that's the now it's

1165
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:20,960
Speaker 1: the mic, right, which just it's the mic because the

1166
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:24,720
Speaker 1: mic we have up in the studio, and it's the same,

1167
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 1: it goes the same way across the board is there'sre's

1168
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 1: a certain point you can sit there. I've set for

1169
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 1: so many hours. I've wasted I think years of my

1170
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 1: life waiting for engineers to try different compressors. Which it's

1171
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 1: so infintesimal. I gotta I gotta feel the difference. I

1172
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 1: it's if if if, if I have to strain to

1173
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:47,520
Speaker 1: hear a difference. It's not different. Right when you're mixing,

1174
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:52,000
Speaker 1: shove a fader up, don't don't don't type in point

1175
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 1: to decibel, right, I mean there's an argument to be made.

1176
01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not No, I am dissing it. I'm

1177
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:00,640
Speaker 1: dissing at all. It's just it's there's got to feel

1178
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 1: the impact. And if the sound doesn't really change drastically

1179
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 1: to where you can feel it here, it it's it's

1180
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:10,760
Speaker 1: it's a moot point. So gear wise, I feel that

1181
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 1: That's the way I feel about all gear. I have

1182
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 1: great gear here at the house, but I'm not gonna

1183
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 1: sit there and have fifteen different preamps because I lose.

1184
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 1: Because by the time you've gone through it, you've lost

1185
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:25,440
Speaker 1: the muse. Right. I used to watch singers just glaze

1186
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 1: over by the time I got through to the mic.

1187
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 1: There's the micro gonna use. They were they were put

1188
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 1: they didn't want to sing, Okay, I can see in

1189
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 1: the video gentile X. So are you a gentile X

1190
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:38,600
Speaker 1: guy or you really don't care? They're they're here, They're great.

1191
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 1: I know it's a horrible thing to say, right, No,

1192
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:43,680
Speaker 1: I mean you made the choice. Some people say genial

1193
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 1: X are great. Some people say this is my sound,

1194
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:48,480
Speaker 1: this is what I want, and the old days over

1195
01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:51,080
Speaker 1: the n S ten ms. You know, I like these.

1196
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:54,480
Speaker 1: I like these, you can I like. I mean, what

1197
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 1: I really like is these little things they don't make.

1198
01:06:56,920 --> 01:07:00,240
Speaker 1: These are called n HT pros, and I used to

1199
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:02,440
Speaker 1: have them even closer. I had them stands that literally

1200
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 1: it was like they were like almost earphones, but not

1201
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 1: ear phones. I listened really quietly, just I don't want

1202
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:10,600
Speaker 1: to lose my hearing. And plus you can't hear when

1203
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 1: you play loud, so I listened to the level it's

1204
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 1: uncomfortably low. But I like to have the speakers close

1205
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:19,040
Speaker 1: to my ears so you hear the bottom end. And

1206
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 1: I don't know how I got those, but I just

1207
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 1: like them. And and the main thing is that you

1208
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:27,200
Speaker 1: just know what you're hearing. You know, the speakers don't

1209
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 1: have to be great that you just have to know

1210
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 1: exactly what you're hearing and how that relates to other

1211
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:34,960
Speaker 1: sound systems. What's your view on analog versus digital. I

1212
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:37,640
Speaker 1: love analog. I just hate working on it. It's just

1213
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:41,560
Speaker 1: it's it's pain. If if I have a PROD project

1214
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:46,919
Speaker 1: to where we're going for a thing right and we're

1215
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:50,240
Speaker 1: we're not we're not dealing with all that XS and

1216
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:59,919
Speaker 1: oh's of programmed percussion, all that stuff. A grid analogs great, Yeah,

1217
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:04,920
Speaker 1: if you have a to me, it's like like you know,

1218
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 1: like you know, when we were kids, what do we

1219
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 1: had the crayon box that had what eight because they

1220
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:11,520
Speaker 1: had it with like thirty two. I never had one

1221
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 1: with a little uh sharpener in the front, right. And

1222
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:16,840
Speaker 1: sometimes there's a reason for having the thirty two, But

1223
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:20,120
Speaker 1: sometimes it's great having an eight, right, and you limit

1224
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:26,960
Speaker 1: the the options. I love that at first you could

1225
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:31,439
Speaker 1: hear a big difference there. The technology has been around

1226
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:35,040
Speaker 1: long enough and the engineers are are so good that

1227
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 1: it's hard to tell the difference now to where it

1228
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:43,080
Speaker 1: matters from an emotional standpoint musically. So it's not an

1229
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:44,880
Speaker 1: argum to me, it's not an argument what's better, it's

1230
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 1: what's what? What's what more facilitates your workflow at that point.

1231
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:51,800
Speaker 1: So your referenced earlier country music today, so what's your

1232
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 1: This is where you work, but what's your take on

1233
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:58,559
Speaker 1: the music? It's it kind of became the receptacle of

1234
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:00,880
Speaker 1: what rock was from the eighties. Well, I mean I

1235
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:04,040
Speaker 1: remember Tom Petty. I saw him once and he said

1236
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:06,160
Speaker 1: he called it the country music of the seventies, of

1237
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 1: the rock music of the seventies. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's

1238
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:15,960
Speaker 1: it's it's it's where I can survive, right, it's no,

1239
01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:21,439
Speaker 1: it's it's a big tent. Having lived now the majority

1240
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:25,080
Speaker 1: of my life here, I've I've I've I've come through

1241
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 1: the back door into an immense appreciation and respect for

1242
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 1: country music that I didn't have when I was a

1243
01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:37,760
Speaker 1: young buck growing up here, Like I wanted to have

1244
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 1: nothing to do with it. There's a real rock and

1245
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:45,160
Speaker 1: roll component to old country music. That's great. I think

1246
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:48,360
Speaker 1: there's some wonderful new country music that's being made that's

1247
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:56,479
Speaker 1: just you know, it's just it's They allow a lot

1248
01:09:56,560 --> 01:09:59,479
Speaker 1: of a lot of differentials now that didn't exist when

1249
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 1: I was a kid. It you know, and you'll and you'll,

1250
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 1: you'll go and and and you can listen to from

1251
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 1: a from a Chris Stapleton to Kane Brown record, you know,

1252
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:13,200
Speaker 1: to a Keith Urban record to you know, just you

1253
01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:17,960
Speaker 1: can you can go down the list and it's yeah,

1254
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 1: it's it's it's the nice thing about I will say

1255
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:23,000
Speaker 1: that I'm and I'm not. You know, it's like, there's

1256
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:24,960
Speaker 1: no better place, but I happen to live here. And

1257
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:27,679
Speaker 1: and so you you tend to be able to see

1258
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:33,559
Speaker 1: the good points and the flaws, right, the good points

1259
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 1: about the strength of Nashville is that it's still wrapped

1260
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 1: around live musicians. And I think that's a real plus

1261
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 1: because that's being lost in a lot of other areas. Right.

1262
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:46,280
Speaker 1: Certainly not the only way to make music. It's not

1263
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 1: the way you make great hip hop music. It can't

1264
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:52,439
Speaker 1: be right. But so this is a place, this is

1265
01:10:52,479 --> 01:10:55,360
Speaker 1: a thing, it's a it's it's a piece of the conversation.

1266
01:10:55,920 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 1: And and I think that's the wonderful thing about country music. Um,

1267
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:02,080
Speaker 1: if you like you know, for for me, I didn't

1268
01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:04,240
Speaker 1: grow up with bluegrass music. I didn't grow up with

1269
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:07,160
Speaker 1: real whiny kind of uh you know what I would

1270
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:09,400
Speaker 1: call whiney country music. Of course somebody that would be

1271
01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:12,960
Speaker 1: fighting words for somebody else, but that just wasn't my culture.

1272
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:19,160
Speaker 1: Right nowadays, you can do this other kind of hybrid

1273
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:22,639
Speaker 1: and and still be a part of the conversation. And

1274
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:25,960
Speaker 1: so I think that's the wonderful thing about Nashville. And

1275
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:28,880
Speaker 1: you know, there's always gonna be a corporate side because

1276
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 1: the business exists to make money. I mean, if you

1277
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:34,559
Speaker 1: if you can't make money, you know, there's no business.

1278
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:38,559
Speaker 1: So that's when you're you balance that art versus commerce thing.

1279
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:42,520
Speaker 1: That's that's never gonna be a conversation that that anybody's

1280
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:44,439
Speaker 1: gonna come up with a with an answer that that

1281
01:11:44,439 --> 01:11:48,120
Speaker 1: that satisfies everybody. But overall, it's it's a good thing.

1282
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:50,760
Speaker 1: And I never thought in a million years that I

1283
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:53,559
Speaker 1: that I would be that guy. As a matter of fact,

1284
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:57,360
Speaker 1: that's what people say. Yeah, Dan's the country producer, and

1285
01:11:57,439 --> 01:12:00,599
Speaker 1: I thought I was a rock guitar player. You know, Okay,

1286
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:05,120
Speaker 1: in the last twenty five years, with all this digital change,

1287
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 1: what do we know? We know the country audience went

1288
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:13,160
Speaker 1: to streaming before the rock audience. We know the paradigm

1289
01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:16,479
Speaker 1: of radio being the be all and end all has

1290
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:19,640
Speaker 1: is not the case anymore, even though it's very important.

1291
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:24,559
Speaker 1: Can you feel less of a stranglehold from the traditional systems.

1292
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:28,720
Speaker 1: Is there an evolution in the overall business that's allowing

1293
01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:32,599
Speaker 1: growth in what kind of sounds and pushing the envelope? Yeah,

1294
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:35,960
Speaker 1: it was. It's it's predicated on streaming, right, it's it's

1295
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:38,640
Speaker 1: it was all. It was all through the funnel of

1296
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:42,000
Speaker 1: radio and hits and and being able to control hits.

1297
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:44,920
Speaker 1: Now we we we don't control what hits are anymore.

1298
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 1: You can control what radio hits are still to some degree,

1299
01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:51,080
Speaker 1: but that's not the music that's moving the masses. Right,

1300
01:12:52,400 --> 01:12:56,800
Speaker 1: you have a real time way of a barometer of

1301
01:12:57,760 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 1: finding out what people care about. And that's exciting and

1302
01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:06,240
Speaker 1: and and terrifying at the same time. Right, you can't

1303
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 1: control it. Moved on and country music, you know, is

1304
01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:18,479
Speaker 1: coming to that realization. Um, yeah, and I think it's great.

1305
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 1: I mean I I had my buddy Randy Goodman who

1306
01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:26,880
Speaker 1: runs Sony Records, great dear friend of mine. He told me,

1307
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:28,920
Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, on this this artist Cam Marlow.

1308
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:33,640
Speaker 1: He said, look, don't don't don't go cookie cutter on

1309
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:37,480
Speaker 1: this thing. Just make music that can that makes Cam excited.

1310
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:41,200
Speaker 1: We'll deal with the rest of it. Just something. If

1311
01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:44,080
Speaker 1: if we need something to be pulled in for radio

1312
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:47,040
Speaker 1: or whatever, we can address that at that At that time,

1313
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:51,920
Speaker 1: basically chains are taken off. Just make some music, do

1314
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:55,680
Speaker 1: something that's compelling, whatever the hell that is. I like

1315
01:13:55,840 --> 01:13:59,320
Speaker 1: that directive. That's that's that's great. Once again, in your video,

1316
01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:02,120
Speaker 1: I can I can see like ten guitars. How often

1317
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:05,000
Speaker 1: do you play guitar as much as I can when

1318
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:07,680
Speaker 1: I produced. It's really hard for me because because I

1319
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:10,920
Speaker 1: am a guitar player at heart, and I just it's like,

1320
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:15,640
Speaker 1: you know, my my vision goes to the guitar. The

1321
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:18,639
Speaker 1: world comes through through the guitar. I ceased to listen

1322
01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:22,760
Speaker 1: to a singer. I forget that I'm supposed to be

1323
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 1: directing something. I do play on tracking sessions sometimes because

1324
01:14:28,439 --> 01:14:31,680
Speaker 1: if it's the best way that I can communicate. Um,

1325
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:36,120
Speaker 1: I didn't play today or the or last Friday. Two

1326
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:40,479
Speaker 1: great guitar players, uh Tom Bukavac and Chris Donegan. They

1327
01:14:40,479 --> 01:14:44,280
Speaker 1: were staggeringly good, and it was better for me not

1328
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:47,800
Speaker 1: to play. I will over dub after the fact, um,

1329
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:49,680
Speaker 1: because there's certain things that we didn't get that I

1330
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:52,400
Speaker 1: know that need need to be done. And and I'm

1331
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:57,160
Speaker 1: a different personality. Um a record that I just played

1332
01:14:57,200 --> 01:14:59,639
Speaker 1: on every one. So I like to flex those old

1333
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:03,760
Speaker 1: must those if there's there's a reason for it. And

1334
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:07,480
Speaker 1: the eighties are kind of coming back around Bob these days.

1335
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:10,320
Speaker 1: It's it's it's something I never thought would happen. But

1336
01:15:10,439 --> 01:15:12,559
Speaker 1: I have some of these younger artists saying, hey, can

1337
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:15,640
Speaker 1: you play some of that stuff? Yeah, well, you know

1338
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:18,040
Speaker 1: I have to. Why Wight slowed down? Tell me more

1339
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:20,320
Speaker 1: about the eighties coming back all of a sudden, It's

1340
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:23,200
Speaker 1: like everything comes back around, right, and some of the

1341
01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:25,960
Speaker 1: values of the eighties. It's like, for we've been in

1342
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:29,600
Speaker 1: a in a how do you describe it, It's like

1343
01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:36,599
Speaker 1: a harmonic and guitar drought for the last fifteen years.

1344
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:40,720
Speaker 1: Right when the eighties ended. I mean it it extended

1345
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:48,160
Speaker 1: far beyond maybe what was necessary and uh, you know, tasteful.

1346
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 1: It was. It was gymnastics, right. I listened to some

1347
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:53,320
Speaker 1: of the stuff I played in the eighties. It's like,

1348
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:56,519
Speaker 1: it's just I'm embarrassed, you know, But that was that

1349
01:15:56,600 --> 01:16:00,240
Speaker 1: was it, That was the culture, right, So you know,

1350
01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:02,800
Speaker 1: the nineties came in and and definitely dealt with that

1351
01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:05,960
Speaker 1: in in in in not too friendly of a way,

1352
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:10,840
Speaker 1: humbled us all right, right, and and and that's evolution,

1353
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:14,559
Speaker 1: and that's the way it goes. And but there's there's

1354
01:16:14,600 --> 01:16:17,559
Speaker 1: some there's some things about the eighties that we you know,

1355
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:21,439
Speaker 1: for all honest that that still resonate, right, And there's

1356
01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:24,799
Speaker 1: something about that guitar thing and not just playing simple

1357
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:28,760
Speaker 1: melodies and drony type things. There's about having that facility

1358
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:33,080
Speaker 1: to to like a violinist, you know, flares and and

1359
01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:36,679
Speaker 1: and maybe an eight barcelos opposed to these freaking four

1360
01:16:36,720 --> 01:16:39,040
Speaker 1: barcelos that have been going around for the last ten years,

1361
01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:41,479
Speaker 1: you know. And so an artist that I was working with,

1362
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:43,400
Speaker 1: he said, you know, I want you to play that stuff.

1363
01:16:43,400 --> 01:16:45,960
Speaker 1: I don't want you to and you know, so the

1364
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:48,320
Speaker 1: funny thing is, you know, I don't play every day,

1365
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 1: so you know I used to play ten hours a day, right,

1366
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:53,640
Speaker 1: that was that was my life. And and so you

1367
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:55,880
Speaker 1: gotta work back up. It's like, yes, you know how

1368
01:16:55,920 --> 01:16:59,519
Speaker 1: to ride that bike, but it's not the same thing. So, yeah,

1369
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:01,760
Speaker 1: I just finished some stuff. I played some cellos, and

1370
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:05,840
Speaker 1: I'm pretty pretty proud of that. Are they self serving? Hill, Yes,

1371
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:09,320
Speaker 1: they're totally self serving, saying yeah, I can still do

1372
01:17:09,400 --> 01:17:13,360
Speaker 1: this stuff. They served the music. So everybody's happy, most

1373
01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:15,760
Speaker 1: of which would be me at this point, just no

1374
01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:17,519
Speaker 1: I can do but I love it. Yeah, I love

1375
01:17:17,560 --> 01:17:20,040
Speaker 1: playing guitar. So you grew up in Nashville. What kind

1376
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:24,719
Speaker 1: of circumstances. My dad was a string orchestrator, string arranger,

1377
01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:27,240
Speaker 1: so music in the family. My mother was a pianist,

1378
01:17:27,479 --> 01:17:30,400
Speaker 1: but she chose not to do it professionally. She had

1379
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:33,720
Speaker 1: the chops. She was really good classical pianist. And I

1380
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:37,120
Speaker 1: grew up in Nashville. He was involved. He started in

1381
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:41,240
Speaker 1: in in He started the onset of Christian contemporary music

1382
01:17:41,680 --> 01:17:47,040
Speaker 1: didn't exist before those years in the seventies, and I

1383
01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 1: wasn't so much interested in that as I just want

1384
01:17:49,320 --> 01:17:51,519
Speaker 1: to go to sessions. And I got to go with

1385
01:17:51,560 --> 01:17:53,640
Speaker 1: my dad when he would do rhythm sessions in the

1386
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:56,880
Speaker 1: seventies and see like the great so I don't know

1387
01:17:56,920 --> 01:17:59,120
Speaker 1: if you know the name Reggie Young people like that

1388
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:02,200
Speaker 1: that played on I mean countless hit records, legends in

1389
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:04,800
Speaker 1: that and these guys would just take me under the

1390
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:06,479
Speaker 1: wing and let me sit next to them and watch

1391
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:10,120
Speaker 1: him play in the studio. That's all I cared about doing.

1392
01:18:10,120 --> 01:18:11,400
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be a rock star. I didn't

1393
01:18:11,439 --> 01:18:13,040
Speaker 1: want to do anything else. I just wanted to be

1394
01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:15,759
Speaker 1: a studio guitar player. I think since I was thirteen

1395
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:19,640
Speaker 1: years old, I didn't. But when I found out what

1396
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:22,360
Speaker 1: but I met David Hungate. You know that, you know

1397
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:29,680
Speaker 1: the name David Huntgate, right, yeah, just base extraordinary And

1398
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:32,519
Speaker 1: he he had moved to Nashville, which is I was

1399
01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:34,960
Speaker 1: always wonder, why are you moving to Nashville. I want

1400
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:37,960
Speaker 1: to just get out at that time, and uh, this

1401
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:40,439
Speaker 1: he loved it. He's a Midwestern guy and he but

1402
01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:42,240
Speaker 1: he told me when I was nineteen. I was playing

1403
01:18:42,280 --> 01:18:44,160
Speaker 1: on a record with him when I was nineteen, and

1404
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:46,200
Speaker 1: he said, yeah, if you really want to make it,

1405
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:49,280
Speaker 1: you know, as you really want to say you've made it,

1406
01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:52,800
Speaker 1: you gotta make it in l A and and uh

1407
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:55,080
Speaker 1: and you know, he played in the band with a

1408
01:18:55,160 --> 01:18:58,639
Speaker 1: guy that influenced me so freaking much. I mean, Steve

1409
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:01,160
Speaker 1: Luca there, you know, I just it's like, what can

1410
01:19:01,200 --> 01:19:04,240
Speaker 1: you say about how great he is. He's he's a

1411
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:07,080
Speaker 1: couple of years my senior. But it's like I listened

1412
01:19:07,120 --> 01:19:08,840
Speaker 1: to him and I heard him play on records in

1413
01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:11,280
Speaker 1: the late seventies and he was, you know, teenagers like

1414
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:14,880
Speaker 1: that's what I want, you know, And I saw, I

1415
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:17,479
Speaker 1: saw it. Steve wrote on a vall he said, yeah,

1416
01:19:17,560 --> 01:19:21,880
Speaker 1: Dan copied me. Hell yeah, I copied him. Absolutely, You're

1417
01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:23,800
Speaker 1: gonna copy the best, right, I mean, that's how you

1418
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:27,240
Speaker 1: get work. There's no there's no shame in that. It's

1419
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:30,920
Speaker 1: that's what you do. And I would never embarrassed to stay.

1420
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:32,920
Speaker 1: I thought he was one of the greatest of all time.

1421
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:36,160
Speaker 1: You know, is period. You you can't look at Steve

1422
01:19:36,240 --> 01:19:39,400
Speaker 1: and go that he has not affected so many guitar

1423
01:19:39,400 --> 01:19:42,000
Speaker 1: plays me being that I'm on the beneficiary. I'm just

1424
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:44,920
Speaker 1: glad that he quit playing sessions when he did, because

1425
01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:49,559
Speaker 1: it gave it was this massive like like like cavern

1426
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:53,040
Speaker 1: cavernists void that that that I got to be able

1427
01:19:53,080 --> 01:19:54,800
Speaker 1: to step into and be a part of. I wasn't

1428
01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 1: the only guy. By the way, Okay, you're growing up.

1429
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:00,640
Speaker 1: How many kids in the family? Three and where are

1430
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:03,440
Speaker 1: you in the hierarchy? One of the oldest and the smallest,

1431
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:07,120
Speaker 1: but I'm the oldest. My brother Dave, uh, you know,

1432
01:20:07,320 --> 01:20:09,400
Speaker 1: if you ever listen to Giant Records, he was, uh,

1433
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 1: the drummer, and he's just great and my youngest brother.

1434
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:15,640
Speaker 1: By the time it came to his he said, screw this,

1435
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:18,479
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go into a different path. Too many musicians

1436
01:20:18,479 --> 01:20:21,559
Speaker 1: in the family, but he's very musical here for him.

1437
01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:25,639
Speaker 1: What was your experience going to school? Good student, bad student? Popular?

1438
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:27,559
Speaker 1: I went to a sports school. I was an athlete

1439
01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:31,680
Speaker 1: and they had a horrible music program, and so it

1440
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:36,160
Speaker 1: was always that tension. You know, great parents. I hit

1441
01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:39,720
Speaker 1: the Jack Pop hit lottery on that one, and they

1442
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:45,040
Speaker 1: they just said, look, you know, life is about if

1443
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:49,120
Speaker 1: you can't. I'll put it this way. My dad knew

1444
01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:52,799
Speaker 1: I was. I was a musician through and through. He

1445
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:55,360
Speaker 1: he pushed me in all the other areas. He said, look,

1446
01:20:55,400 --> 01:20:59,160
Speaker 1: you gotta keep working on your athleticism and your academics

1447
01:20:59,200 --> 01:21:02,400
Speaker 1: because it's gonna fact everything at some point. You're gonna

1448
01:21:02,439 --> 01:21:04,559
Speaker 1: have to make a choice. If it's music, it's music.

1449
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:08,280
Speaker 1: But don't don't shut those doors yet. So high school

1450
01:21:08,320 --> 01:21:11,600
Speaker 1: was fine. All I cared about was we had a

1451
01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:15,080
Speaker 1: local college here called Belmont College, which is now Belmont University.

1452
01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:18,000
Speaker 1: It was a big deal. I had a studio. As

1453
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:21,800
Speaker 1: long as I kept my grades up. Um, my my

1454
01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:23,559
Speaker 1: friends at college would come over and pick me up

1455
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:25,439
Speaker 1: after baseball practice and I'd go and sit in the

1456
01:21:25,439 --> 01:21:28,040
Speaker 1: studio there and play, you know, from midnight until six

1457
01:21:28,080 --> 01:21:31,439
Speaker 1: in the morning, and be just obliterated the next day

1458
01:21:31,479 --> 01:21:33,559
Speaker 1: for school. But as long as I kept good grades,

1459
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:36,880
Speaker 1: my my parents were willing to work with me on that.

1460
01:21:37,080 --> 01:21:38,920
Speaker 1: And that's why I learned to be a studio musician.

1461
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:42,120
Speaker 1: And you graduate from high school and then what I

1462
01:21:42,200 --> 01:21:45,160
Speaker 1: went to work for a on the road for a

1463
01:21:45,200 --> 01:21:49,719
Speaker 1: guy named Bill Gaither Bill Gaither Trio. They were Christian music.

1464
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:53,960
Speaker 1: They were a trio and they were playing arenas. They

1465
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:56,959
Speaker 1: were some of the best people I've ever met, continue

1466
01:21:57,000 --> 01:22:00,519
Speaker 1: to be to this day, absolute integrity. Not the music

1467
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:02,840
Speaker 1: I wanted to do, but I was able to go.

1468
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:04,559
Speaker 1: I went to school, a little bit of college up

1469
01:22:04,560 --> 01:22:07,880
Speaker 1: in Indiana, and I tour on the weekends and made

1470
01:22:07,880 --> 01:22:10,759
Speaker 1: a living that lasted about a year. Year and a half.

1471
01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:15,719
Speaker 1: I came back to Nashville. I went to Belmont College.

1472
01:22:16,600 --> 01:22:19,280
Speaker 1: I had my tuition paid for because I played in

1473
01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:21,240
Speaker 1: a band that you know, went out and played gigs

1474
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:27,559
Speaker 1: for the college, got married one and uh moved to

1475
01:22:27,680 --> 01:22:30,559
Speaker 1: l A. So you never finished college about a year

1476
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:33,720
Speaker 1: and a half. And what'd your parents say about that? Nothing?

1477
01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:39,240
Speaker 1: They didn't they they those those the doors were closing.

1478
01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:42,120
Speaker 1: You know, there was there was there and doors were opening,

1479
01:22:42,160 --> 01:22:44,880
Speaker 1: and they knew that that was the inevitable. I'm sure

1480
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:46,920
Speaker 1: they would have loved it I had I got into college,

1481
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:50,080
Speaker 1: you know, as as I would love for my And

1482
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:53,120
Speaker 1: the funny thing is, Baba, my my youngest kid, is

1483
01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:56,040
Speaker 1: a touring drummer, and I was great drummer. He did

1484
01:22:56,080 --> 01:22:58,080
Speaker 1: the same thing to me. He a year and a

1485
01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:00,799
Speaker 1: half in the college. He said, Dad, you're you're wasting

1486
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:02,880
Speaker 1: your money. I gotta go on the road, and I

1487
01:23:02,960 --> 01:23:05,200
Speaker 1: had no other answers. Yeah, you're right, you gotta go

1488
01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:06,639
Speaker 1: do if you gotta do it, I would I rather

1489
01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:10,320
Speaker 1: you have a degree. Yes, but that's just not gonna happen.

1490
01:23:10,439 --> 01:23:12,760
Speaker 1: How did you decide to get married so young? If

1491
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:16,959
Speaker 1: you saw this woman that I met when I was thirteen,

1492
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:21,120
Speaker 1: you would have gotten married at seventeen. She's my soul mate.

1493
01:23:21,160 --> 01:23:23,320
Speaker 1: I mean that she's beautiful. She's she she is as

1494
01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:26,160
Speaker 1: beautiful as inside is out. I mean that sounds like

1495
01:23:26,160 --> 01:23:30,120
Speaker 1: a cheap shot. Now. I loved her. I just loved her,

1496
01:23:30,160 --> 01:23:33,240
Speaker 1: and that was it. That just it's one of those things.

1497
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:35,400
Speaker 1: And you don't always get right. I mean, you know,

1498
01:23:35,560 --> 01:23:37,639
Speaker 1: I mean people say, how do you keep a marriage going?

1499
01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:40,760
Speaker 1: There's so much luck involved here. This is but it's

1500
01:23:40,880 --> 01:23:43,200
Speaker 1: kindred spirit. We lucked out. We met each other and

1501
01:23:43,240 --> 01:23:46,720
Speaker 1: we you know, we have the same kind of view

1502
01:23:46,760 --> 01:23:49,840
Speaker 1: about life. Yeah, I was a kid, and she was

1503
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:52,920
Speaker 1: willing to move out to l a figure that. You know.

1504
01:23:53,720 --> 01:24:04,160
Speaker 1: We moved out there, no promises, nothing, m So what

1505
01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:07,400
Speaker 1: point does the band White Heart come about? That was

1506
01:24:07,479 --> 01:24:12,280
Speaker 1: between college marriage and me losing moving to the West Coast.

1507
01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:16,080
Speaker 1: That was a Christian man and uh, you know I

1508
01:24:16,479 --> 01:24:19,760
Speaker 1: was raised, you know, in a very evangelical setting. My

1509
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:22,920
Speaker 1: parents weren't didn't weren't heavy on the dog, but they were.

1510
01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:27,200
Speaker 1: They're pretty free thinkers. There was also a lot of

1511
01:24:27,240 --> 01:24:30,200
Speaker 1: great Christian music happening in Nashville. I mean, this was

1512
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:32,519
Speaker 1: that was the cutting edge music I think in Nashville.

1513
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:35,680
Speaker 1: You know. Um, when I had a chance to move

1514
01:24:35,720 --> 01:24:42,439
Speaker 1: to l A, I just unceremoniously quit my quit the band.

1515
01:24:42,520 --> 01:24:44,360
Speaker 1: You know, so I'm gone, guys, And they all thought

1516
01:24:44,400 --> 01:24:47,160
Speaker 1: I was, you know, moving to Sodom and Gomorrah, I guess,

1517
01:24:47,160 --> 01:24:50,599
Speaker 1: And but Sherry was was up and so no, I

1518
01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:53,360
Speaker 1: I that was it. That was that was that was mecca.

1519
01:24:53,439 --> 01:24:56,559
Speaker 1: It was all I wanted to do was play on records.

1520
01:24:56,560 --> 01:24:59,280
Speaker 1: You know. So to what degree is religion part of

1521
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:02,759
Speaker 1: your life? Now, well that's a that's a large question,

1522
01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:06,760
Speaker 1: right religion. I don't know about religion. I mean, religions

1523
01:25:06,920 --> 01:25:13,120
Speaker 1: extremely important. Uh, spirituality, I'd say probably would would dominate that. Um,

1524
01:25:13,200 --> 01:25:17,479
Speaker 1: I borrow from a lot of different religions. Right, Well,

1525
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:19,640
Speaker 1: let's put a different way. Are you a churchgoer? No,

1526
01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:23,280
Speaker 1: there's a value to that. I mean, it's not that

1527
01:25:23,320 --> 01:25:26,320
Speaker 1: I don't like church. Right now, I'm getting more from

1528
01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:29,720
Speaker 1: from from different authors and in different thinkers. So no,

1529
01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:31,519
Speaker 1: you know, there's no criticism of all that. Just when

1530
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:34,400
Speaker 1: you hear someone played in a Christian band, you always

1531
01:25:34,479 --> 01:25:36,800
Speaker 1: ask that. But let's go back to the beginning. Was

1532
01:25:36,840 --> 01:25:39,800
Speaker 1: guitar your first instrument? And how did you get into

1533
01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:42,200
Speaker 1: playing the guitar? Can I be rude for a second,

1534
01:25:42,560 --> 01:25:45,719
Speaker 1: not to you, not rude, but cause just you said

1535
01:25:45,760 --> 01:25:50,439
Speaker 1: something that that it's just about that that that interests

1536
01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:53,200
Speaker 1: me that I just want to remark on. Yeah. Yeah,

1537
01:25:53,240 --> 01:25:57,120
Speaker 1: the thing about the thing about like like like I say,

1538
01:25:57,680 --> 01:26:02,040
Speaker 1: I don't relate to evangelical Christianity he especially these days

1539
01:26:02,120 --> 01:26:08,600
Speaker 1: from a from a political standpoint, it's it's it some

1540
01:26:08,720 --> 01:26:13,720
Speaker 1: of its repulsive to me. And yet the irony is

1541
01:26:13,760 --> 01:26:16,599
Speaker 1: that is it? Life is so complex, you know, I mean,

1542
01:26:17,000 --> 01:26:22,360
Speaker 1: like you don't like people that irritate me. They also

1543
01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:26,240
Speaker 1: have the good side, right religion, any religion. But I

1544
01:26:26,640 --> 01:26:28,599
Speaker 1: was raised in the in the Christian faith, I mean

1545
01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:32,280
Speaker 1: here in the South, the Bible Belt. So no, no

1546
01:26:32,360 --> 01:26:35,240
Speaker 1: surprise to that. There's things I love about it and

1547
01:26:35,280 --> 01:26:37,160
Speaker 1: things I hate about It's kind of like family, you know,

1548
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:41,640
Speaker 1: and you and you I luckily had parents that that

1549
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:45,680
Speaker 1: really we're very encouraging to not throw the baby out

1550
01:26:45,680 --> 01:26:48,639
Speaker 1: with the bath water, I think. And you find things

1551
01:26:48,640 --> 01:26:52,560
Speaker 1: in it there there that are useful, that are beautiful,

1552
01:26:52,720 --> 01:26:54,880
Speaker 1: and the and the some of the ugly stuff you

1553
01:26:55,000 --> 01:26:57,479
Speaker 1: just go, you know, whatever, you call it for what

1554
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:03,800
Speaker 1: it is. And but but religion or spirituality plays a

1555
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:06,439
Speaker 1: great deal in my life, plays a great deal in

1556
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:09,800
Speaker 1: music because there's a balance to it all. It's you

1557
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:12,559
Speaker 1: can't separate your life out. It's I'm not just a musician.

1558
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:15,280
Speaker 1: I'm not just a husband. I'm not just a dad. Now,

1559
01:27:15,320 --> 01:27:19,880
Speaker 1: I'm not just a granddad. I'm I'm a guy who's

1560
01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:24,479
Speaker 1: closer to death than not. You know, right, I'm closer

1561
01:27:24,479 --> 01:27:28,519
Speaker 1: to diapers. We all go through it right now. This

1562
01:27:28,600 --> 01:27:32,799
Speaker 1: life matters, right, Do I have any certainty about another

1563
01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:39,840
Speaker 1: extension life? No, I don't. And but the religious components

1564
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:42,920
Speaker 1: still plays something because because it talks about values and

1565
01:27:42,960 --> 01:27:45,760
Speaker 1: things that matter. So that's that that to me is

1566
01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:47,640
Speaker 1: kind of how I view all that stuff. So I

1567
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:50,639
Speaker 1: it's it's not as simple of an answer of of

1568
01:27:50,680 --> 01:27:52,800
Speaker 1: whether I go to church or not go to church.

1569
01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:56,960
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's it's it's in how I view

1570
01:27:56,960 --> 01:27:59,280
Speaker 1: all that stuff. It's it's it's evolving too. I mean,

1571
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:02,120
Speaker 1: I I'm what I hate. I'm hitting sixty two this year,

1572
01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:04,679
Speaker 1: so I'm not the same that I was ten years ago,

1573
01:28:04,720 --> 01:28:07,800
Speaker 1: twenty years ago. Certainly not when I was twenty in

1574
01:28:07,920 --> 01:28:11,320
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. I was this green, freaking kid who was

1575
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:14,479
Speaker 1: playing rock guitar on all these records. But I was

1576
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:18,200
Speaker 1: just off the boat of Christian contemporary Christian music. So

1577
01:28:18,880 --> 01:28:22,559
Speaker 1: can you imagine how the utter lunacy of that, you know,

1578
01:28:22,600 --> 01:28:27,160
Speaker 1: I'm walking into cocaine, you know, haven you know, it's like,

1579
01:28:27,680 --> 01:28:30,240
Speaker 1: it's just it was it's something a movie. It would

1580
01:28:30,280 --> 01:28:32,280
Speaker 1: be too boring a movie movie to watch, but it's

1581
01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:35,240
Speaker 1: it would be a great humort thirty minute humor show.

1582
01:28:35,320 --> 01:28:39,519
Speaker 1: So anyway, sorry, I hate to go off. Wanted to

1583
01:28:39,560 --> 01:28:41,559
Speaker 1: be clear. Yeah, it's just it's just all. It's all.

1584
01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:44,320
Speaker 1: I don't I don't have any great answers about it,

1585
01:28:44,680 --> 01:28:47,040
Speaker 1: but I do have a lot of patients with the

1586
01:28:47,080 --> 01:28:51,320
Speaker 1: process because of what I said about the inevitability my

1587
01:28:51,360 --> 01:28:53,160
Speaker 1: first you know, I don't I don't want to extend

1588
01:28:53,200 --> 01:28:57,040
Speaker 1: this too far. It's just and kind of contemporary Christian

1589
01:28:57,120 --> 01:29:00,280
Speaker 1: music is a big ten. Uh. It's just when someone

1590
01:29:00,360 --> 01:29:03,160
Speaker 1: is involved in it. You asked, what degree are they

1591
01:29:03,200 --> 01:29:06,559
Speaker 1: involved in the dog, which you were not. There's no

1592
01:29:06,680 --> 01:29:10,040
Speaker 1: prejudgment there, but when someone is probaby, because I certainly

1593
01:29:10,040 --> 01:29:12,639
Speaker 1: know people who were involved in it or very heavily

1594
01:29:12,720 --> 01:29:14,720
Speaker 1: into the dog. But but I think we've covered it.

1595
01:29:15,080 --> 01:29:19,240
Speaker 1: So did you start with the guitar? Yeah? That was it.

1596
01:29:19,360 --> 01:29:22,080
Speaker 1: I don't I have no idea why that came up,

1597
01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:24,040
Speaker 1: but you know what, probably because I went I was

1598
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:26,160
Speaker 1: at It would have to be because of church and

1599
01:29:26,240 --> 01:29:29,200
Speaker 1: my dad was a at that time. Was he led

1600
01:29:29,200 --> 01:29:31,760
Speaker 1: the music at church, and there they'd have these folk bands, right,

1601
01:29:32,040 --> 01:29:35,080
Speaker 1: and the guitar. It was the guitar. So I saw

1602
01:29:35,120 --> 01:29:37,000
Speaker 1: these guys playing guitar, and that was it. I thought

1603
01:29:37,040 --> 01:29:40,200
Speaker 1: that was cool. So how I'd just start with an

1604
01:29:40,240 --> 01:29:43,639
Speaker 1: acoustic guitar, you know, playing chords? You know, I took

1605
01:29:43,680 --> 01:29:47,120
Speaker 1: down in the local music store here in Nashville. It

1606
01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:49,679
Speaker 1: was when I was thirteen. My dad had a friend,

1607
01:29:49,880 --> 01:29:52,519
Speaker 1: his name was John Darnold's a studio guitar player in

1608
01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:57,040
Speaker 1: Nashville and he's still a dear friend. And he came

1609
01:29:57,080 --> 01:29:59,160
Speaker 1: over one night gave a couple of hours of his

1610
01:29:59,280 --> 01:30:01,840
Speaker 1: time to a third jenior old kid showed me some

1611
01:30:01,920 --> 01:30:05,120
Speaker 1: scales and I was hooked. That was it. That was

1612
01:30:05,200 --> 01:30:08,240
Speaker 1: that was like, that's where I'm going with this whole thing.

1613
01:30:09,240 --> 01:30:12,639
Speaker 1: To be that good, you have to practice a whole

1614
01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:15,000
Speaker 1: hell of a lot. So I did. That's that's all

1615
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:19,680
Speaker 1: I did. I mean literally going back to you know,

1616
01:30:20,240 --> 01:30:24,040
Speaker 1: my wife, Sherry. So this is it sounds very southern.

1617
01:30:24,160 --> 01:30:25,760
Speaker 1: I love the sounding. As I always tell people, I

1618
01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:28,880
Speaker 1: married my sister just just to confuse but no, Sherry.

1619
01:30:28,880 --> 01:30:32,879
Speaker 1: I met Sherry when we were thirteen. Right at fifteen,

1620
01:30:32,960 --> 01:30:34,960
Speaker 1: I was so in love with this girl. I was

1621
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:36,599
Speaker 1: in love with the guitar and love with this girl.

1622
01:30:36,640 --> 01:30:39,760
Speaker 1: But the girl was just and my parents, actually, since

1623
01:30:39,800 --> 01:30:42,040
Speaker 1: I was the first kid, made me break up with her.

1624
01:30:42,600 --> 01:30:46,000
Speaker 1: This is beautiful, you know they were. They were just

1625
01:30:46,040 --> 01:30:49,040
Speaker 1: worried I'd probably get pregged at sixteen, you know, there

1626
01:30:49,080 --> 01:30:52,439
Speaker 1: they would that would be it, right whatever, But but yeah,

1627
01:30:52,600 --> 01:30:55,240
Speaker 1: it was. I would I would play ten hours a day,

1628
01:30:55,320 --> 01:30:57,320
Speaker 1: That's all I would do, and to the point that

1629
01:30:57,439 --> 01:31:00,120
Speaker 1: I would irritate my coaches would have they'd call my

1630
01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:02,920
Speaker 1: folks in and say, you know, what's this guy doing,

1631
01:31:03,040 --> 01:31:07,320
Speaker 1: you know, that was my life. I was a good

1632
01:31:07,320 --> 01:31:10,639
Speaker 1: picture and but I cared more about guitar. So I'd

1633
01:31:10,640 --> 01:31:12,640
Speaker 1: sit in my room and just and crack up my

1634
01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:16,000
Speaker 1: amp and play. I turned on records, you know, I remember,

1635
01:31:16,400 --> 01:31:20,320
Speaker 1: you know I heard Larry Carlton's first solo record. I

1636
01:31:20,320 --> 01:31:22,840
Speaker 1: mean these things where I was like fifteen years old,

1637
01:31:23,160 --> 01:31:26,599
Speaker 1: Asia by Steely Dan. I heard all those guitar solos.

1638
01:31:26,720 --> 01:31:29,160
Speaker 1: Is like, what else in the world is there to

1639
01:31:29,200 --> 01:31:32,120
Speaker 1: do but learn this stuff? Okay? What are some more

1640
01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:36,120
Speaker 1: of your influences? And when did you start? You wanted

1641
01:31:36,160 --> 01:31:38,200
Speaker 1: to be a studio musician, but did you start playing

1642
01:31:38,240 --> 01:31:41,160
Speaker 1: in bands? In high school? I had a friend of mine,

1643
01:31:41,200 --> 01:31:43,800
Speaker 1: Gordon Kennedy, who was a son of of of of

1644
01:31:43,800 --> 01:31:48,040
Speaker 1: Country Royalty of Jerry Kennedy. He was great producer and

1645
01:31:48,040 --> 01:31:50,320
Speaker 1: a great guitar players, studio guitar player in the sixties.

1646
01:31:50,720 --> 01:31:52,880
Speaker 1: We did little bands. We played it kind of in

1647
01:31:52,880 --> 01:31:55,360
Speaker 1: our high school. But that was no, it wasn't it

1648
01:31:55,479 --> 01:31:57,320
Speaker 1: wasn't to be a band guy. It was we would.

1649
01:31:57,960 --> 01:32:02,000
Speaker 1: We had a great music teacher. We had a horrible

1650
01:32:02,080 --> 01:32:05,720
Speaker 1: music program at this sports school, and he said, look,

1651
01:32:05,760 --> 01:32:08,920
Speaker 1: if you would, if you'll keep your grades up during

1652
01:32:09,200 --> 01:32:12,720
Speaker 1: during uh what he called study hall. You guys can

1653
01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:14,599
Speaker 1: take your guitars and namps to go down the hall

1654
01:32:14,680 --> 01:32:16,120
Speaker 1: as long as you don't make too much noise and

1655
01:32:16,120 --> 01:32:19,200
Speaker 1: just practice, because he knew that we needed time to

1656
01:32:19,240 --> 01:32:21,720
Speaker 1: do that. That's really what we did. We just we

1657
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:24,439
Speaker 1: just we needle draft on records. That's all. It was

1658
01:32:24,479 --> 01:32:26,800
Speaker 1: when we would try to learn the latest whatever was

1659
01:32:26,800 --> 01:32:29,400
Speaker 1: coming out then it was it was Boston. For me,

1660
01:32:29,439 --> 01:32:32,800
Speaker 1: it was al Dimola Elegant Gypsy, the first record of

1661
01:32:32,920 --> 01:32:35,160
Speaker 1: Note that he came out with. You know, never heard

1662
01:32:35,160 --> 01:32:40,559
Speaker 1: a guitar player play like that. Steely Dan too, Jeff Beck,

1663
01:32:40,680 --> 01:32:45,599
Speaker 1: I mean wired, you know, I mean blow, blow by blow.

1664
01:32:46,720 --> 01:32:48,599
Speaker 1: By the time wired here, I think we were sixteen,

1665
01:32:49,400 --> 01:32:51,639
Speaker 1: you know. So we're just, I mean, we're just it's

1666
01:32:51,680 --> 01:32:53,920
Speaker 1: so rich. We're just we're learning all this stuff. And

1667
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:56,520
Speaker 1: then we would play these little shows at our school assemblies.

1668
01:32:56,560 --> 01:32:59,320
Speaker 1: They would call him and we'd play these songs. Can

1669
01:32:59,360 --> 01:33:02,479
Speaker 1: you imagine the you know, thirteen year old girls listening

1670
01:33:02,560 --> 01:33:04,960
Speaker 1: to us play Jeff back music. You know, but we

1671
01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:07,479
Speaker 1: were we were so into ourselves. But that was what

1672
01:33:07,520 --> 01:33:10,920
Speaker 1: we did for our whole high school career. Basically it was.

1673
01:33:11,000 --> 01:33:13,600
Speaker 1: It was phenomenal. So when you moved to l A

1674
01:33:13,960 --> 01:33:17,880
Speaker 1: to be a session musician, how many connections did you

1675
01:33:18,040 --> 01:33:20,599
Speaker 1: have or did you just go blind? And how did

1676
01:33:20,600 --> 01:33:24,040
Speaker 1: you get work? Specifically? I had played on a lou

1677
01:33:24,160 --> 01:33:26,960
Speaker 1: Rawls record here in Nashville a friend of mine named

1678
01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:31,719
Speaker 1: Ronnie Hafkin, who who was famous because if he produced

1679
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:35,880
Speaker 1: a band called Doctor Hook at that time, remember that right,

1680
01:33:36,000 --> 01:33:39,880
Speaker 1: of course cover the rolling Store Sylvia's Mother, that's it.

1681
01:33:40,160 --> 01:33:43,800
Speaker 1: So Ronnie always wanted young talent. He got me to

1682
01:33:43,880 --> 01:33:48,719
Speaker 1: play when I was probably nineteen on a Lou Rawls

1683
01:33:48,720 --> 01:33:50,720
Speaker 1: record he was producing in town, right, and then he

1684
01:33:50,760 --> 01:33:54,400
Speaker 1: went to overdubb it out in Los Angeles and there

1685
01:33:54,479 --> 01:34:03,160
Speaker 1: was a keyboard player slash arranger named Robbie Buchanan who

1686
01:34:03,240 --> 01:34:05,640
Speaker 1: heard it and inquired who the guitar player on this

1687
01:34:05,760 --> 01:34:10,240
Speaker 1: record was, and that was a connection. Ronnie Afkin came

1688
01:34:10,240 --> 01:34:12,559
Speaker 1: back to Nashville several months later and told me that

1689
01:34:12,600 --> 01:34:16,240
Speaker 1: this guy, Robbie Buchanan wanted to, you know, could he

1690
01:34:16,320 --> 01:34:19,439
Speaker 1: have my name and number. Robbie was doing all the

1691
01:34:19,439 --> 01:34:22,200
Speaker 1: big records at that time. This was in the early eighties,

1692
01:34:22,200 --> 01:34:24,519
Speaker 1: and he said you should move to to Los Angeles

1693
01:34:24,600 --> 01:34:29,320
Speaker 1: and it shocked me. And I think that's when I said,

1694
01:34:29,360 --> 01:34:31,280
Speaker 1: I don't read music that well. He said that it

1695
01:34:31,360 --> 01:34:37,519
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. So we just moved. We just moved. We

1696
01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:42,000
Speaker 1: got back to our What happened, Well, yeah, I mean, yeah,

1697
01:34:42,080 --> 01:34:45,479
Speaker 1: it's weird because for about a month nothing and then

1698
01:34:45,520 --> 01:34:48,000
Speaker 1: the phone started ringing off the hook and and one

1699
01:34:48,040 --> 01:34:50,880
Speaker 1: thing led to another. Well, I go back a little

1700
01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:54,559
Speaker 1: bit before I moved there. This was in the day

1701
01:34:54,600 --> 01:34:57,640
Speaker 1: and age when they had they still they had what

1702
01:34:57,680 --> 01:35:00,240
Speaker 1: did they call him? That people would do the hiring

1703
01:35:00,280 --> 01:35:03,000
Speaker 1: on sessions. I can't even remember the term, but they would.

1704
01:35:03,360 --> 01:35:05,760
Speaker 1: They would, They would put together rhythm sections. And I

1705
01:35:06,120 --> 01:35:09,680
Speaker 1: told this fellow that I that, uh, I said, just

1706
01:35:09,680 --> 01:35:12,320
Speaker 1: booked me in a session, like like I lived there,

1707
01:35:12,680 --> 01:35:15,000
Speaker 1: I'll take care of getting there, and he did. And

1708
01:35:15,040 --> 01:35:19,120
Speaker 1: one thing would lead to another. L A fed off

1709
01:35:19,400 --> 01:35:21,800
Speaker 1: young new talents. As I said, there was a void

1710
01:35:21,880 --> 01:35:25,920
Speaker 1: there and uh so I would. I would load all

1711
01:35:25,960 --> 01:35:28,080
Speaker 1: my gear onto a plane's back before they checked the

1712
01:35:30,200 --> 01:35:32,439
Speaker 1: luggage or any that. I I would bloat two amps, a

1713
01:35:32,439 --> 01:35:36,719
Speaker 1: pedal board and three guitars, pay a porter twenty bucks,

1714
01:35:37,760 --> 01:35:39,840
Speaker 1: ship it to l A get off the fight, rent

1715
01:35:39,840 --> 01:35:41,240
Speaker 1: a car, put it all in there and take it

1716
01:35:41,280 --> 01:35:44,240
Speaker 1: to a studio, do one session, come back to Nashville

1717
01:35:44,280 --> 01:35:47,040
Speaker 1: and do demo sessions. So I would probably lose a

1718
01:35:47,120 --> 01:35:49,439
Speaker 1: couple of thousand dollars each time. I didn't even know

1719
01:35:49,479 --> 01:35:52,799
Speaker 1: I could hire a cartage company and move my gear. Finally,

1720
01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:54,600
Speaker 1: we said this is enough of this. We moved to

1721
01:35:54,760 --> 01:35:58,000
Speaker 1: l A, got a session here to you know everyone

1722
01:35:58,160 --> 01:36:01,000
Speaker 1: you know, but but I'm I just moved to town.

1723
01:36:01,520 --> 01:36:03,679
Speaker 1: And then about a month or two later, the phone

1724
01:36:03,720 --> 01:36:07,240
Speaker 1: started ringing, and it just it was exponential. Were your networking?

1725
01:36:07,360 --> 01:36:09,360
Speaker 1: Were you working it? Are you just waiting for the

1726
01:36:09,400 --> 01:36:11,879
Speaker 1: phone to ring? And I didn't know how to network.

1727
01:36:13,920 --> 01:36:16,360
Speaker 1: It's it's a mystery, Bob. I mean, honest to god,

1728
01:36:16,360 --> 01:36:18,240
Speaker 1: I've had people ask me, and it it just it

1729
01:36:18,280 --> 01:36:22,280
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. Was there a tremendous amount of luck

1730
01:36:22,280 --> 01:36:26,719
Speaker 1: in my career? Yes? Did I deliver every time? Yes?

1731
01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:29,680
Speaker 1: A d percent? And it was just it was the

1732
01:36:29,840 --> 01:36:33,200
Speaker 1: absolute perfect time to move to Los Angeles, to be

1733
01:36:33,240 --> 01:36:37,120
Speaker 1: a guitar player who had practiced all that I had practiced,

1734
01:36:37,160 --> 01:36:41,439
Speaker 1: who knew kind of what to play. When Steve Lucather

1735
01:36:41,640 --> 01:36:47,719
Speaker 1: had abdicated this key position and the world was looking

1736
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:51,719
Speaker 1: for I would say, Steve Lucatherur, that's so, how many

1737
01:36:51,800 --> 01:36:54,160
Speaker 1: years did you do that? What was that lifestyle? Like?

1738
01:36:54,560 --> 01:36:58,680
Speaker 1: It was the probably end of eight two, you know?

1739
01:36:59,560 --> 01:37:03,559
Speaker 1: Was that sick years? Just it was usually three sessions

1740
01:37:03,560 --> 01:37:07,479
Speaker 1: a day, three three hour sessions, sometimes more. And it

1741
01:37:07,720 --> 01:37:09,840
Speaker 1: it was fast and furious, and I was I was

1742
01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:15,000
Speaker 1: in the fast lane right in in gawking most of

1743
01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:17,200
Speaker 1: the time at the people I was around. But then

1744
01:37:17,360 --> 01:37:19,320
Speaker 1: you get confidence and you're you're doing what you do

1745
01:37:19,400 --> 01:37:21,000
Speaker 1: and I, you know, I was, I was good at

1746
01:37:21,040 --> 01:37:25,600
Speaker 1: it and um and it was about eighty eight I

1747
01:37:25,600 --> 01:37:29,840
Speaker 1: would say you start to go, well, maybe there's more,

1748
01:37:29,880 --> 01:37:32,439
Speaker 1: you know, And that's when I started fooling around with

1749
01:37:33,439 --> 01:37:35,680
Speaker 1: We had a rehearsal band, I think Alan Pasqual and

1750
01:37:35,680 --> 01:37:39,840
Speaker 1: I had a rehearsal band with some writers. Tom Kelly

1751
01:37:40,080 --> 01:37:42,519
Speaker 1: was a writer and a singer, a great background singer.

1752
01:37:43,280 --> 01:37:45,960
Speaker 1: Denny Belfield was a bass player that was playing in it.

1753
01:37:47,160 --> 01:37:50,360
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think who was playing drums. I'll think

1754
01:37:50,360 --> 01:37:52,200
Speaker 1: of it in a minute. But it was the rehearsal

1755
01:37:52,200 --> 01:37:53,680
Speaker 1: it was. It was a rehearsal ban. It was on

1756
01:37:53,720 --> 01:37:55,080
Speaker 1: a lark. We were going to try to get a

1757
01:37:55,120 --> 01:37:58,559
Speaker 1: record deal right, and Mike, Oh, Mike Barrett was the drummer.

1758
01:37:58,640 --> 01:38:01,840
Speaker 1: That's who was Mike Barrett. And we would rehearse and

1759
01:38:02,000 --> 01:38:04,120
Speaker 1: rehearsal halls and we just drink some beer and and

1760
01:38:04,120 --> 01:38:07,600
Speaker 1: and and play and do songs and whatever. And the

1761
01:38:07,680 --> 01:38:11,519
Speaker 1: material was okay. But but Alan Pasqua and myself it

1762
01:38:11,600 --> 01:38:15,840
Speaker 1: was like, I guess, I don't remember, but it wasn't

1763
01:38:15,840 --> 01:38:21,280
Speaker 1: scratching an itch effectively. And we just started writing songs ourselves.

1764
01:38:21,360 --> 01:38:24,759
Speaker 1: And I had sung a little bit, so on some demos,

1765
01:38:24,760 --> 01:38:28,040
Speaker 1: I started singing and what emanated out of that was

1766
01:38:28,160 --> 01:38:32,600
Speaker 1: the beginning of our band Giant, and probably within a

1767
01:38:32,720 --> 01:38:35,840
Speaker 1: year we got signed. You know, it was bizarre, but

1768
01:38:35,920 --> 01:38:38,600
Speaker 1: the idea was, like all these records we were playing on,

1769
01:38:38,640 --> 01:38:40,240
Speaker 1: if these guys can do this, hell, we can do

1770
01:38:40,280 --> 01:38:44,960
Speaker 1: this too. We had no no one tell us we couldn't,

1771
01:38:45,000 --> 01:38:46,960
Speaker 1: so we just did. It was so it was a moonlighting.

1772
01:38:47,160 --> 01:38:49,879
Speaker 1: It was basically our way of having some fun before

1773
01:38:49,920 --> 01:38:54,479
Speaker 1: you go to the band. Any memorable session stories. Everybody

1774
01:38:54,479 --> 01:38:56,519
Speaker 1: always likes to know the crazy stuff. There wasn't a

1775
01:38:56,520 --> 01:38:59,640
Speaker 1: lot of crazy stuff because I wasn't necessarily have to

1776
01:38:59,680 --> 01:39:03,599
Speaker 1: be easy. Just an interesting story or any great records

1777
01:39:03,640 --> 01:39:05,479
Speaker 1: you played on, and maybe you didn't think they were

1778
01:39:05,479 --> 01:39:08,760
Speaker 1: gonna be that great or something like that. Okay, in

1779
01:39:08,880 --> 01:39:12,160
Speaker 1: order of your question, memorable, the first time I got

1780
01:39:12,200 --> 01:39:16,719
Speaker 1: asked to Michael Jackson session it was memorable only because

1781
01:39:16,760 --> 01:39:20,400
Speaker 1: I walked into the studios. It was at Westlake and

1782
01:39:20,479 --> 01:39:23,000
Speaker 1: he walked basically off the street into a into a

1783
01:39:23,040 --> 01:39:26,360
Speaker 1: lounge and there was this guy sitting there that looked

1784
01:39:26,520 --> 01:39:29,960
Speaker 1: like he looked horrible. He looked, I mean like he

1785
01:39:30,280 --> 01:39:34,080
Speaker 1: was a wreck. He'd been living on the streets. And

1786
01:39:34,120 --> 01:39:37,240
Speaker 1: I didn't realize until somebody was attending to this guy.

1787
01:39:38,640 --> 01:39:40,960
Speaker 1: And what I didn't realize until a few minutes later

1788
01:39:41,040 --> 01:39:44,360
Speaker 1: was they were taking off makeup. That's the only way

1789
01:39:44,360 --> 01:39:47,639
Speaker 1: he could walk around the streets, right, And so I

1790
01:39:47,680 --> 01:39:51,240
Speaker 1: was just asking him. I said, what it was, dumb question,

1791
01:39:51,240 --> 01:39:52,680
Speaker 1: Now I think about it, Why do you do this?

1792
01:39:52,720 --> 01:39:54,760
Speaker 1: He said, well, that's the only way I can. I

1793
01:39:54,800 --> 01:39:57,600
Speaker 1: can walk down the street and go shopping. So he

1794
01:39:57,640 --> 01:40:01,639
Speaker 1: had some Hollywood makeup artist, you know, duh. That was

1795
01:40:01,720 --> 01:40:03,720
Speaker 1: that was you know, that was just stuff like that.

1796
01:40:03,760 --> 01:40:04,880
Speaker 1: I mean, that was you know, I was a kid.

1797
01:40:04,880 --> 01:40:07,759
Speaker 1: It was twenty five. He was making the Bad record

1798
01:40:07,800 --> 01:40:11,000
Speaker 1: at that time. Any records you worked on your specifically

1799
01:40:11,080 --> 01:40:19,840
Speaker 1: proud of Yeah, there's one specifically um my, uh, you

1800
01:40:19,880 --> 01:40:22,280
Speaker 1: know it was kind of bucket list was to play

1801
01:40:22,320 --> 01:40:25,040
Speaker 1: for Boss Skags because I would think that those were

1802
01:40:25,080 --> 01:40:27,880
Speaker 1: some of the most impactful records for me from from

1803
01:40:27,920 --> 01:40:32,360
Speaker 1: a lot of musical standpoints. And and I got this

1804
01:40:32,479 --> 01:40:36,320
Speaker 1: call from Bill Schnay to play a Boss record that

1805
01:40:36,439 --> 01:40:39,439
Speaker 1: was like that was it, you know, And the rhythm

1806
01:40:39,520 --> 01:40:46,120
Speaker 1: section was Jeff ber Carroll and Marcus Miller and uh

1807
01:40:46,360 --> 01:40:48,800
Speaker 1: different keyboard players. I mean it was like, who's who

1808
01:40:48,840 --> 01:40:52,160
Speaker 1: playing on this record? And Boss asked me to write

1809
01:40:52,200 --> 01:40:56,599
Speaker 1: some songs for it. Right, So again I didn't have

1810
01:40:56,640 --> 01:40:58,960
Speaker 1: a publishing company. I didn't even you know why I

1811
01:40:59,000 --> 01:41:02,960
Speaker 1: wrote songs with him so I could write extended guitar solo.

1812
01:41:03,040 --> 01:41:05,600
Speaker 1: This is how green I was. I mean seriously, I

1813
01:41:05,800 --> 01:41:11,400
Speaker 1: I didn't know what publishing was probably just but I

1814
01:41:11,520 --> 01:41:13,519
Speaker 1: sure as hell knew how to write a section that

1815
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:17,919
Speaker 1: I could blow on a solo. Right. It's just it's

1816
01:41:17,960 --> 01:41:21,599
Speaker 1: it's just silliness, but it's it's it's it's true. And

1817
01:41:21,720 --> 01:41:25,120
Speaker 1: um we did this record. Oh, Peter Wolfe was playing,

1818
01:41:25,280 --> 01:41:28,360
Speaker 1: you know, producer Austrian producer was playing keyboards on it.

1819
01:41:28,439 --> 01:41:31,280
Speaker 1: David Page would come in. There was a song that

1820
01:41:31,360 --> 01:41:33,120
Speaker 1: we that I had written with Bob. I wrote three

1821
01:41:33,160 --> 01:41:36,800
Speaker 1: songs with them, and he wanted to record us. Great,

1822
01:41:37,280 --> 01:41:39,200
Speaker 1: you know, he said, well, who do you want to

1823
01:41:39,200 --> 01:41:42,519
Speaker 1: come and play guitar on this long Steve Steve Luga there.

1824
01:41:42,560 --> 01:41:44,519
Speaker 1: It's like, so I get to play with my my

1825
01:41:45,439 --> 01:41:48,000
Speaker 1: like I'm a kid, I'm a kid in the candy store. Seriously,

1826
01:41:48,040 --> 01:41:50,720
Speaker 1: I just I just didn't even know what to do.

1827
01:41:50,800 --> 01:41:53,639
Speaker 1: I was, you know, hanging out with Jeff Breck Carroll

1828
01:41:53,680 --> 01:41:55,800
Speaker 1: and and just the whole thing it was. It was

1829
01:41:55,920 --> 01:41:59,160
Speaker 1: it was otherworldly, right, I keep checking on make sure

1830
01:41:59,200 --> 01:42:05,280
Speaker 1: I'm recording this. So yeah, and it was. It was

1831
01:42:05,320 --> 01:42:08,960
Speaker 1: in the middle of the eighties and music had changed then,

1832
01:42:09,000 --> 01:42:11,439
Speaker 1: and this was pretty artsy record of some cool stuff

1833
01:42:11,439 --> 01:42:14,680
Speaker 1: on it. And this was this was the time, like

1834
01:42:14,800 --> 01:42:16,920
Speaker 1: the hottest one of the hottest acts on the chart

1835
01:42:17,040 --> 01:42:20,240
Speaker 1: was Debbie Gibson. So that gives you kind of a perspective, right,

1836
01:42:21,120 --> 01:42:25,240
Speaker 1: And the label got this record and even Alan Holdsworth

1837
01:42:25,320 --> 01:42:27,960
Speaker 1: even played I mean, so this is this is I mean,

1838
01:42:28,520 --> 01:42:30,760
Speaker 1: you know, it's just it's deep and wide, right, and

1839
01:42:31,320 --> 01:42:33,320
Speaker 1: this is my this is the greatest thing a young

1840
01:42:33,400 --> 01:42:37,360
Speaker 1: guitar player could be a part of. So and I

1841
01:42:37,360 --> 01:42:39,200
Speaker 1: also had three songs which I got to play some

1842
01:42:39,320 --> 01:42:43,680
Speaker 1: pretty badass guitar solos on it. And the label rejected

1843
01:42:43,680 --> 01:42:47,280
Speaker 1: the record, right, they dismant on and I remember even

1844
01:42:47,280 --> 01:42:49,600
Speaker 1: getting called from some other producers come and redo some

1845
01:42:49,640 --> 01:42:53,559
Speaker 1: of the songs, and it was so ah, Sacharin, you know,

1846
01:42:53,720 --> 01:42:58,719
Speaker 1: just just I you know again, my my, my lens

1847
01:42:58,760 --> 01:43:00,479
Speaker 1: was only that of a guitar players. I was looking

1848
01:43:00,479 --> 01:43:02,680
Speaker 1: at the music business. I just I just it was.

1849
01:43:02,760 --> 01:43:05,960
Speaker 1: It was an abomination, right. The funny thing was this

1850
01:43:06,000 --> 01:43:10,599
Speaker 1: is this record is called Other Roads. The funny thing

1851
01:43:10,760 --> 01:43:14,880
Speaker 1: was that the three most uncommercial songs with the songs

1852
01:43:14,920 --> 01:43:17,599
Speaker 1: I would have written with bos right, they made the record,

1853
01:43:18,040 --> 01:43:21,320
Speaker 1: so they exist there and and to this day that

1854
01:43:21,400 --> 01:43:23,400
Speaker 1: was probably I would say that was one of the

1855
01:43:23,479 --> 01:43:25,439
Speaker 1: highlights of my whole career. I mean, of all the

1856
01:43:25,439 --> 01:43:26,960
Speaker 1: records I've played on a lot of a lot of

1857
01:43:27,080 --> 01:43:29,720
Speaker 1: big records, but that was the one that that that

1858
01:43:29,880 --> 01:43:33,400
Speaker 1: grabbed my heart strings. Other Roads. How did you get

1859
01:43:33,439 --> 01:43:36,719
Speaker 1: involved and meet Budd brag That's a little bit unclear

1860
01:43:36,800 --> 01:43:39,639
Speaker 1: to me. I can't remember exactly how I met him,

1861
01:43:39,680 --> 01:43:43,200
Speaker 1: but It was around when we submitted demos to to

1862
01:43:43,200 --> 01:43:45,360
Speaker 1: to to get to have a band that was signed.

1863
01:43:45,560 --> 01:43:47,439
Speaker 1: I think the label put me in touch with him.

1864
01:43:47,479 --> 01:43:50,000
Speaker 1: I think I can't remember. So you had your deal

1865
01:43:50,080 --> 01:43:53,160
Speaker 1: before you have the manager. I think Bud's not around it.

1866
01:43:53,760 --> 01:43:55,840
Speaker 1: Dispute that how do you get the deal? I think, dude,

1867
01:43:55,880 --> 01:43:59,919
Speaker 1: demos it's a little vague. I don't know. Well who shopped.

1868
01:44:00,160 --> 01:44:02,200
Speaker 1: Somebody had to go to the label say hey, this

1869
01:44:02,240 --> 01:44:04,479
Speaker 1: is what I have. Great. That may be the mystery.

1870
01:44:04,479 --> 01:44:06,479
Speaker 1: I may need to we may need to, you know,

1871
01:44:07,080 --> 01:44:10,599
Speaker 1: put an addendum to this. I don't remember. That's the honesty. Okay,

1872
01:44:10,640 --> 01:44:14,720
Speaker 1: So you get a deal with A and M, and

1873
01:44:14,760 --> 01:44:17,559
Speaker 1: then somehow you get put in touch with Bud Praeger.

1874
01:44:17,640 --> 01:44:20,519
Speaker 1: How did you decide to work with Bud? You know? Bud? Yeah,

1875
01:44:20,560 --> 01:44:24,600
Speaker 1: I do. That's that's a that's a load. Basically, he

1876
01:44:24,720 --> 01:44:27,840
Speaker 1: scared the ship out of me. And it was like

1877
01:44:27,880 --> 01:44:30,840
Speaker 1: the greatest challenge because on one hand he could tell

1878
01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:34,200
Speaker 1: you that you have the raw ability to do this

1879
01:44:34,360 --> 01:44:38,400
Speaker 1: and using his you know, and also basically be honest

1880
01:44:38,400 --> 01:44:40,760
Speaker 1: and say that you are nowhere close to your potential.

1881
01:44:41,360 --> 01:44:45,920
Speaker 1: That's the that's putting it in a very genteel form, right,

1882
01:44:46,000 --> 01:44:50,200
Speaker 1: but that's what that's what he sold. And his track

1883
01:44:50,240 --> 01:44:55,720
Speaker 1: record was staggering. He he was honest, I really and

1884
01:44:55,760 --> 01:44:58,320
Speaker 1: I really appreciate. I learned more about the record industry

1885
01:44:58,360 --> 01:45:00,560
Speaker 1: from Bud Prager than anybody. And I had been in

1886
01:45:00,640 --> 01:45:03,160
Speaker 1: the record industry as a guitar player. I didn't know

1887
01:45:03,160 --> 01:45:08,120
Speaker 1: anything about it. And um, yeah, he was a great friend.

1888
01:45:08,200 --> 01:45:13,400
Speaker 1: He was a great friend, a great mentor. Um and

1889
01:45:13,200 --> 01:45:16,320
Speaker 1: and and he was you know, he was just honest.

1890
01:45:16,360 --> 01:45:17,720
Speaker 1: You know. I mean there's certain things we were good

1891
01:45:17,760 --> 01:45:19,559
Speaker 1: as a band and there were things we were horrible,

1892
01:45:19,600 --> 01:45:22,599
Speaker 1: and he would he would identify both. You know. Okay,

1893
01:45:22,680 --> 01:45:25,280
Speaker 1: so you make the record. Were you happy with the album?

1894
01:45:25,439 --> 01:45:27,240
Speaker 1: That first record? Yeah, I thought it was pretty good.

1895
01:45:27,439 --> 01:45:28,840
Speaker 1: I thought it was pretty good. And you know, that

1896
01:45:28,960 --> 01:45:31,760
Speaker 1: was still in the in the in the A O

1897
01:45:31,920 --> 01:45:34,160
Speaker 1: R radio existed, and it was a it was a

1898
01:45:34,200 --> 01:45:36,400
Speaker 1: big thing in American. We had put out this first

1899
01:45:36,439 --> 01:45:39,439
Speaker 1: single and and and the first single that we put

1900
01:45:39,439 --> 01:45:42,479
Speaker 1: out had a minute guitar. So that started the record

1901
01:45:42,800 --> 01:45:46,000
Speaker 1: and they played it in its entirety. Who wouldn't love that?

1902
01:45:46,040 --> 01:45:48,040
Speaker 1: You know? You I drive around l A and hear

1903
01:45:48,080 --> 01:45:49,920
Speaker 1: that thing playing all the time, and it's like, wow,

1904
01:45:50,160 --> 01:45:52,320
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, we are pretty good. You know, So

1905
01:45:52,400 --> 01:45:56,160
Speaker 1: what was your experience trying to play rock star? You

1906
01:45:56,200 --> 01:46:00,479
Speaker 1: know I could. I was a pretty good singer. Um.

1907
01:46:00,600 --> 01:46:04,880
Speaker 1: By the way, I absolutely what you wrote, by the

1908
01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:09,400
Speaker 1: way you were. You're very kind in some of the

1909
01:46:09,439 --> 01:46:13,559
Speaker 1: descriptions about my guitar playing a musicianship, and I appreciate that.

1910
01:46:13,920 --> 01:46:17,519
Speaker 1: But what I really loved about what you wrote was

1911
01:46:17,520 --> 01:46:19,519
Speaker 1: was in the was in the area of what you're

1912
01:46:19,560 --> 01:46:24,719
Speaker 1: wondering whether it was because maybe the playing was really proficient,

1913
01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:27,680
Speaker 1: sounded really good, and you were wondering whether it was

1914
01:46:27,800 --> 01:46:31,240
Speaker 1: live or prerecorded. And then you said, and then Dan

1915
01:46:31,320 --> 01:46:34,800
Speaker 1: started singing, I busted a gun. I thought that was

1916
01:46:34,840 --> 01:46:36,960
Speaker 1: great because I was a good singer. You know, I

1917
01:46:37,000 --> 01:46:39,120
Speaker 1: was not a great singer. I had a good range

1918
01:46:39,120 --> 01:46:41,559
Speaker 1: and I was convincing. But wait, wait, wait, wait, Just

1919
01:46:41,720 --> 01:46:45,040
Speaker 1: to be clear, this is a big thing, like with

1920
01:46:45,080 --> 01:46:48,519
Speaker 1: the super Bowl. Whatever about people? Are people lip sinking

1921
01:46:48,600 --> 01:46:52,759
Speaker 1: or not? And I will tell you, in my particular world,

1922
01:46:53,400 --> 01:46:57,120
Speaker 1: if I say something is live and the expert's way in,

1923
01:46:58,000 --> 01:47:01,160
Speaker 1: they'll crucify me. Oh yeah, yeah, if I'm wrong, okay,

1924
01:47:01,240 --> 01:47:04,400
Speaker 1: But no, you were. You were so correct. It is

1925
01:47:04,439 --> 01:47:06,880
Speaker 1: a live vocal. I don't care who you are. A

1926
01:47:06,920 --> 01:47:10,360
Speaker 1: live vocal is gonna sound live. Okay. Well but okay,

1927
01:47:10,400 --> 01:47:12,640
Speaker 1: so so that was the contract. I didn't mean it

1928
01:47:12,840 --> 01:47:15,120
Speaker 1: as a point. I didn't. I can't. I'm not saying

1929
01:47:15,160 --> 01:47:19,600
Speaker 1: you're I didn't mean it as a putdown whatsoever, not whatsoever.

1930
01:47:19,680 --> 01:47:22,160
Speaker 1: It's just the guitar part was so faithful, to the

1931
01:47:22,680 --> 01:47:24,080
Speaker 1: point I heard it the first time, I thought it

1932
01:47:24,120 --> 01:47:26,240
Speaker 1: was live, and then the next time I was gonna

1933
01:47:26,280 --> 01:47:28,200
Speaker 1: write about it, well, I really better listen to see

1934
01:47:28,240 --> 01:47:30,719
Speaker 1: if it is live, and I'm listening to guitar part whatever,

1935
01:47:30,760 --> 01:47:33,200
Speaker 1: and then you're saying, okay, that's a live vocal. I

1936
01:47:33,240 --> 01:47:35,519
Speaker 1: didn't think there's anything wrong with it. Okay, Well, okay,

1937
01:47:35,600 --> 01:47:37,439
Speaker 1: thank you, and I take that point. Let's just say

1938
01:47:37,439 --> 01:47:40,280
Speaker 1: I'm a better guitar player than singer. So but that

1939
01:47:40,400 --> 01:47:42,920
Speaker 1: was okay. But as I say, that was not my

1940
01:47:43,080 --> 01:47:46,800
Speaker 1: meeting at all. Well, okay, okay, I appreciate that. But

1941
01:47:47,000 --> 01:47:51,240
Speaker 1: I almost liked it better when I interpreted the other way.

1942
01:47:51,280 --> 01:47:54,120
Speaker 1: But but yeah, we we did it. We did a record,

1943
01:47:54,600 --> 01:47:57,000
Speaker 1: you know. We started it in Los Angeles and and

1944
01:47:57,240 --> 01:48:00,280
Speaker 1: we three songs into it, we decided to moved to

1945
01:48:00,400 --> 01:48:03,280
Speaker 1: England and get away from our culture in l A.

1946
01:48:03,760 --> 01:48:05,519
Speaker 1: And it was the best decision. We worked with a

1947
01:48:05,640 --> 01:48:09,200
Speaker 1: wonderful producer named Terry Thomas, British producer. That's what a

1948
01:48:09,240 --> 01:48:11,960
Speaker 1: Bud's go to go to people. Yeah, and it was

1949
01:48:12,000 --> 01:48:16,960
Speaker 1: in the Van Charlie. Yeah, and you know it was great.

1950
01:48:17,360 --> 01:48:20,439
Speaker 1: Answer to your question about rock star, I was. I

1951
01:48:20,640 --> 01:48:23,560
Speaker 1: was not a rock star. That was the thing. And

1952
01:48:23,680 --> 01:48:26,759
Speaker 1: I think that was very Bud was very painfully aware

1953
01:48:26,960 --> 01:48:30,800
Speaker 1: of that because how I mean, come on, you're you're

1954
01:48:30,840 --> 01:48:33,040
Speaker 1: talking to me. I'm not a rock star. It's just

1955
01:48:33,439 --> 01:48:35,280
Speaker 1: to be a rock star, you gotta be a rock star.

1956
01:48:35,360 --> 01:48:39,720
Speaker 1: I'm a musician, right, I could sing, we played really good, um,

1957
01:48:41,600 --> 01:48:44,280
Speaker 1: but to be a rock star that's a different thing.

1958
01:48:44,560 --> 01:48:48,320
Speaker 1: And I would find myself playing gigs and you know,

1959
01:48:49,920 --> 01:48:53,160
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about guitar parts, I'm thinking about books that

1960
01:48:53,280 --> 01:48:55,720
Speaker 1: I'm reading, and I thought, and I'd be thinking at

1961
01:48:55,760 --> 01:48:58,200
Speaker 1: the same time, I'm so not a rock star. I've

1962
01:48:58,240 --> 01:49:01,400
Speaker 1: been around rock stars. I know what a rock star

1963
01:49:01,560 --> 01:49:05,639
Speaker 1: does and I'm not that that ringleader that that. I'm

1964
01:49:05,680 --> 01:49:09,719
Speaker 1: not a big personality who who just dominates an arena

1965
01:49:09,960 --> 01:49:11,880
Speaker 1: or a you know a stadium that that wasn't me.

1966
01:49:12,080 --> 01:49:14,680
Speaker 1: So I knew it. I was self aware enough to

1967
01:49:15,080 --> 01:49:18,640
Speaker 1: know that. But our music was pretty good. So so

1968
01:49:19,600 --> 01:49:22,200
Speaker 1: we kind of floated on that for a while. Going

1969
01:49:22,280 --> 01:49:25,560
Speaker 1: to record number two, things were changing a bit, and

1970
01:49:25,760 --> 01:49:28,120
Speaker 1: I'll never forget we kind of pretty good record the

1971
01:49:28,160 --> 01:49:29,840
Speaker 1: second one. It wasn't as good as the first one,

1972
01:49:29,880 --> 01:49:33,160
Speaker 1: I don't think, but I'll never forget. We were mastering

1973
01:49:33,240 --> 01:49:36,600
Speaker 1: in in and uh, finalizing the record or mixing it

1974
01:49:36,600 --> 01:49:38,240
Speaker 1: in New York, and I'll never forget. We're up in

1975
01:49:38,280 --> 01:49:41,680
Speaker 1: the Sony building and uh, I saw a video of

1976
01:49:41,960 --> 01:49:46,720
Speaker 1: even Flow, right Eddie Vetter climbing on that whatever, that

1977
01:49:46,800 --> 01:49:49,880
Speaker 1: little theater, and I thought, that's the end right there, right,

1978
01:49:50,080 --> 01:49:56,920
Speaker 1: I never forget that because that is very captivating, that's compelling,

1979
01:49:57,439 --> 01:49:59,920
Speaker 1: and that ain't me. I'm just telling you right there,

1980
01:50:00,720 --> 01:50:03,439
Speaker 1: that dude is not me. I got a lot of

1981
01:50:03,479 --> 01:50:05,080
Speaker 1: good things about I mean, and I'm not. It's not

1982
01:50:05,200 --> 01:50:08,520
Speaker 1: like I'm saying that. It's this is not about self deprecating.

1983
01:50:08,600 --> 01:50:11,800
Speaker 1: This is I would want to watch that way more

1984
01:50:11,880 --> 01:50:14,920
Speaker 1: than anything else. That's that's the difference, you know. So

1985
01:50:15,080 --> 01:50:17,400
Speaker 1: I didn't grow up wanting to be a rock star.

1986
01:50:17,640 --> 01:50:22,040
Speaker 1: I didn't study everything about the great rock stars. You know,

1987
01:50:23,880 --> 01:50:26,080
Speaker 1: Steven Tyler came to Nashville a couple of years ago.

1988
01:50:26,120 --> 01:50:27,760
Speaker 1: We were doing a record in this room, you know,

1989
01:50:27,840 --> 01:50:31,439
Speaker 1: we were in that's a rock star. Oh yeah, He's

1990
01:50:31,479 --> 01:50:34,400
Speaker 1: one of the few who literally lives up to the legend.

1991
01:50:34,640 --> 01:50:38,479
Speaker 1: Most are disappointing, but not He's a rock star. Whether

1992
01:50:38,560 --> 01:50:41,880
Speaker 1: he's on stage or he's sitting there in room, that's

1993
01:50:41,880 --> 01:50:46,080
Speaker 1: a rock star. So so I was not that, And

1994
01:50:46,200 --> 01:50:48,879
Speaker 1: so you learned this stuff, you know. I didn't realize

1995
01:50:48,920 --> 01:50:50,639
Speaker 1: that all the stuff that I was going through though,

1996
01:50:51,400 --> 01:50:53,640
Speaker 1: it's it leads you, life leads you, right, you know,

1997
01:50:53,720 --> 01:50:55,400
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you end up. I did

1998
01:50:55,560 --> 01:50:59,920
Speaker 1: learn about living on the edge week to week. Why

1999
01:51:00,080 --> 01:51:02,439
Speaker 1: cheeking your record on the chart, you know, and the

2000
01:51:02,680 --> 01:51:07,040
Speaker 1: the just what that takes out of you emotionally, you

2001
01:51:07,120 --> 01:51:11,920
Speaker 1: know it. It's tough being an artist, right, an artist

2002
01:51:11,960 --> 01:51:14,840
Speaker 1: whatever you want to an entertainer, because it's based on

2003
01:51:15,120 --> 01:51:19,639
Speaker 1: do they like me? Right, musician. It's just if you're

2004
01:51:19,680 --> 01:51:22,600
Speaker 1: freaking good at what you do, you're gonna find a

2005
01:51:22,640 --> 01:51:26,160
Speaker 1: place to plug in. When you're an entertainer, artist, whatever

2006
01:51:27,160 --> 01:51:29,600
Speaker 1: you get there, there's a there's a lifespan to what

2007
01:51:29,800 --> 01:51:33,519
Speaker 1: you do, and those gray hairs start coming, those pounds

2008
01:51:33,560 --> 01:51:36,479
Speaker 1: start coming on. There's someone coming up quickly and you're

2009
01:51:36,479 --> 01:51:39,439
Speaker 1: gonna get your ask replaced. That's a tough place to be,

2010
01:51:39,640 --> 01:51:45,559
Speaker 1: you know. And people complain about how insulated performers are,

2011
01:51:45,960 --> 01:51:49,519
Speaker 1: you know, how how self center they are. That's the

2012
01:51:49,560 --> 01:51:52,160
Speaker 1: only way to survive that world. So I learned a

2013
01:51:52,280 --> 01:51:55,400
Speaker 1: hell of a lot about what I would be dealing

2014
01:51:55,439 --> 01:51:57,360
Speaker 1: with later in life. I had no idea that I

2015
01:51:57,479 --> 01:51:59,840
Speaker 1: was going to school. Basically during that time, Giant was

2016
01:52:00,120 --> 01:52:04,080
Speaker 1: best school. Of course, Bud God Rest his soul, you know,

2017
01:52:04,360 --> 01:52:06,240
Speaker 1: I mean, because basically I'm saying he was the best

2018
01:52:06,280 --> 01:52:09,599
Speaker 1: headmaster I ever had. He would hate that. So how

2019
01:52:09,640 --> 01:52:12,160
Speaker 1: did it end? With a whimper? We were over touring

2020
01:52:12,240 --> 01:52:14,080
Speaker 1: and I think it was ninety one over in Europe

2021
01:52:14,080 --> 01:52:15,519
Speaker 1: and it was just you could just you could just

2022
01:52:15,640 --> 01:52:17,600
Speaker 1: feel the winds that change. Man, it was just it

2023
01:52:17,760 --> 01:52:20,960
Speaker 1: was that arrow was over. It was over. You could

2024
01:52:21,000 --> 01:52:23,160
Speaker 1: sense it in the room we were playing. We're playing

2025
01:52:23,240 --> 01:52:25,240
Speaker 1: good venues, you know, and people would come out, but

2026
01:52:25,439 --> 01:52:27,360
Speaker 1: it was it wasn't the thing, you know, the thing.

2027
01:52:27,439 --> 01:52:30,720
Speaker 1: We were all turning our our heads to were you know,

2028
01:52:30,920 --> 01:52:32,720
Speaker 1: it was all of a sudden. It was you know,

2029
01:52:32,840 --> 01:52:35,200
Speaker 1: these new bands that were coming coming out and and

2030
01:52:35,720 --> 01:52:37,960
Speaker 1: and that was the that was the winds of change.

2031
01:52:38,800 --> 01:52:41,919
Speaker 1: And you could say whatever you want if you're half perceptive,

2032
01:52:41,960 --> 01:52:43,880
Speaker 1: you knew that was what was going to happen. You know,

2033
01:52:44,320 --> 01:52:46,680
Speaker 1: So you come back from Europe, everybody goes through a

2034
01:52:46,680 --> 01:52:49,439
Speaker 1: separate way. That's it pretty much. Yeah, that was it,

2035
01:52:50,000 --> 01:52:52,400
Speaker 1: you know, I mean there was a culture change, and

2036
01:52:52,680 --> 01:52:54,200
Speaker 1: I mean it happened over the course of what a

2037
01:52:54,320 --> 01:52:57,280
Speaker 1: year or so, right, but right, it was pretty quick though.

2038
01:52:57,680 --> 01:53:01,559
Speaker 1: I mean Kurt Cobain and and crew Man they were

2039
01:53:01,600 --> 01:53:05,000
Speaker 1: they talked about a wrecking crew. That was it. Talk

2040
01:53:05,040 --> 01:53:08,200
Speaker 1: about the eighties what with what records were They spent

2041
01:53:08,320 --> 01:53:10,080
Speaker 1: three quarters of a million dollars on a record to

2042
01:53:10,080 --> 01:53:12,320
Speaker 1: see if they got a hit. They were making records

2043
01:53:12,400 --> 01:53:16,200
Speaker 1: up in Seattle for eighty thou dollars and they were

2044
01:53:16,320 --> 01:53:19,760
Speaker 1: great records. You know, you could sense where everybody was

2045
01:53:19,760 --> 01:53:22,720
Speaker 1: going to record companies. You know, it's just in in

2046
01:53:23,040 --> 01:53:25,120
Speaker 1: in rock and roll. If if rock and roll is

2047
01:53:25,160 --> 01:53:29,240
Speaker 1: not offending somebody, you got problems. And by the end

2048
01:53:29,280 --> 01:53:32,479
Speaker 1: of the eighties, it was it was a corporate gesture, right, yeah,

2049
01:53:32,520 --> 01:53:35,600
Speaker 1: the air bands, etcetera. Was there anybody involved but or

2050
01:53:35,640 --> 01:53:38,240
Speaker 1: the other members wanted to keep going? Yeah, I mean,

2051
01:53:38,439 --> 01:53:40,920
Speaker 1: you know, I mean they're still making some records. By

2052
01:53:40,960 --> 01:53:45,120
Speaker 1: the way, Europe has got this insatiable appetite for eighties music.

2053
01:53:45,320 --> 01:53:49,679
Speaker 1: Right there, there's my brother and Mike Brgner Delo. Mike

2054
01:53:50,040 --> 01:53:53,559
Speaker 1: is great bass player, great friend. They're they're still making

2055
01:53:53,920 --> 01:53:57,080
Speaker 1: giant records. They have, they have you know, different guitar

2056
01:53:57,160 --> 01:54:00,200
Speaker 1: players and different singers, and they're still doing stuff. You know.

2057
01:54:00,320 --> 01:54:02,559
Speaker 1: They I don't know if they'll ever want a tour.

2058
01:54:02,720 --> 01:54:05,360
Speaker 1: I doubt they'll ever go tour. But no, I mean

2059
01:54:05,560 --> 01:54:08,439
Speaker 1: after our second record, no, it was it was like, nah,

2060
01:54:09,560 --> 01:54:13,479
Speaker 1: time to pack it up. Okay, So how depressed were

2061
01:54:13,560 --> 01:54:15,680
Speaker 1: you about that and how did you pick yourself up

2062
01:54:15,680 --> 01:54:17,920
Speaker 1: and make your next move. I don't remember being depressed

2063
01:54:17,960 --> 01:54:20,240
Speaker 1: at all. It was like, this is a reality. I

2064
01:54:20,320 --> 01:54:23,080
Speaker 1: got kids to raise, you know, and luckily for me,

2065
01:54:23,800 --> 01:54:26,160
Speaker 1: I hadn't severed, you know. I there was a bit

2066
01:54:26,200 --> 01:54:30,840
Speaker 1: of cache that I that I had with my recording career,

2067
01:54:31,040 --> 01:54:33,960
Speaker 1: and Nashville was ripe at that time to want to

2068
01:54:34,040 --> 01:54:36,600
Speaker 1: capitalize on that. They wanted something different. I was different

2069
01:54:36,680 --> 01:54:41,120
Speaker 1: because I wasn't from here in their eyes, so it

2070
01:54:41,320 --> 01:54:45,120
Speaker 1: really didn't change things. You know, I never I never

2071
01:54:45,200 --> 01:54:47,280
Speaker 1: stopped being a session I guess what it is, Bob.

2072
01:54:48,120 --> 01:54:50,240
Speaker 1: In some respect, I don't think I ever quit beat

2073
01:54:50,280 --> 01:54:52,000
Speaker 1: a session player. I think I kept my day game.

2074
01:54:52,240 --> 01:54:55,040
Speaker 1: So even when you were enjoying you would play gigs, yes,

2075
01:54:55,160 --> 01:54:57,800
Speaker 1: when I could, Yeah, And and you know what I mean.

2076
01:54:57,920 --> 01:54:59,600
Speaker 1: And you could look at that and say, well, you

2077
01:54:59,720 --> 01:55:02,240
Speaker 1: never were a percent And you know, I think I

2078
01:55:02,320 --> 01:55:05,720
Speaker 1: was a realist and I and I don't know, to

2079
01:55:05,840 --> 01:55:08,320
Speaker 1: some degree, I think that would be true. I don't

2080
01:55:08,400 --> 01:55:11,360
Speaker 1: think that I knew that, but I think if I

2081
01:55:11,440 --> 01:55:14,440
Speaker 1: don't think I knew that on on the surface level,

2082
01:55:14,480 --> 01:55:17,800
Speaker 1: I think intuitively, I think I had this gut feeling

2083
01:55:17,920 --> 01:55:22,160
Speaker 1: like this may not happen, so I didn't cut ties

2084
01:55:22,240 --> 01:55:25,520
Speaker 1: with everything. The two top producers in Nashville are you

2085
01:55:25,920 --> 01:55:29,400
Speaker 1: and Dave Cobb. Dave Cobb makes a completely different type

2086
01:55:29,440 --> 01:55:31,879
Speaker 1: of record. What do you think about Dave and his records?

2087
01:55:32,200 --> 01:55:35,480
Speaker 1: Jake and also mentioned Jay Joyce and Joey Moy. You

2088
01:55:35,560 --> 01:55:39,080
Speaker 1: gotta mention those guys are their beasts too? Um now,

2089
01:55:39,120 --> 01:55:46,840
Speaker 1: I mean, but Dave Cobb oh, lovely and great. Dave does.

2090
01:55:48,560 --> 01:55:51,200
Speaker 1: Dave does what I mean, it's just it's totally organic

2091
01:55:51,280 --> 01:55:56,480
Speaker 1: music right at a top level. I mean I do

2092
01:55:56,720 --> 01:56:00,760
Speaker 1: more of a mixed bag, I think. I think I

2093
01:56:00,800 --> 01:56:04,040
Speaker 1: would love to do that also, But what people call

2094
01:56:04,160 --> 01:56:07,680
Speaker 1: me for is is more of integration into pop music

2095
01:56:07,920 --> 01:56:10,360
Speaker 1: and and then also into rock music. A lot of

2096
01:56:10,400 --> 01:56:13,240
Speaker 1: people like to tap into that rock side. So it's, um,

2097
01:56:14,400 --> 01:56:16,960
Speaker 1: we always want what we're not, right. So I I

2098
01:56:17,280 --> 01:56:19,800
Speaker 1: listened to Dave's records, and I listened to I listened

2099
01:56:19,840 --> 01:56:22,400
Speaker 1: to Jay's records, and I said Joey's records, and it's

2100
01:56:22,400 --> 01:56:24,600
Speaker 1: always they always sound better than mine. I hate that.

2101
01:56:25,240 --> 01:56:28,080
Speaker 1: I freaking hate that. But I think we all do that.

2102
01:56:28,200 --> 01:56:30,160
Speaker 1: I think it's just, you know, it's what you're not.

2103
01:56:30,360 --> 01:56:32,680
Speaker 1: When somebody makes a cup of coffee, they it tastes

2104
01:56:32,720 --> 01:56:35,600
Speaker 1: better than the way I make coffee. I guess it

2105
01:56:35,720 --> 01:56:39,680
Speaker 1: just maybe it signifies you want to grow. So yeah,

2106
01:56:39,800 --> 01:56:44,280
Speaker 1: Dave's brought a a different sensibility into this town. The

2107
01:56:44,360 --> 01:56:48,120
Speaker 1: way he makes records, he's he just he's just his

2108
01:56:48,240 --> 01:56:51,720
Speaker 1: own thing. I wish his producers, I wish we could

2109
01:56:51,760 --> 01:56:54,000
Speaker 1: hang around each other a little bit more. We're all

2110
01:56:54,320 --> 01:56:57,880
Speaker 1: busy enough to where we can. But I would love

2111
01:56:58,200 --> 01:57:00,280
Speaker 1: like when I used to play sessions, I got to

2112
01:57:00,320 --> 01:57:04,200
Speaker 1: see all these great producers work. Right, when you're a producer,

2113
01:57:04,280 --> 01:57:07,960
Speaker 1: you don't get that luxury. You're isolated. So yeah, what

2114
01:57:08,080 --> 01:57:10,920
Speaker 1: i'd like to see and I you know, I mean

2115
01:57:12,040 --> 01:57:14,360
Speaker 1: steal some of their ideas. Heck, yeah, I would love

2116
01:57:14,440 --> 01:57:16,200
Speaker 1: to do that. Okay, if you look at the big

2117
01:57:16,360 --> 01:57:20,320
Speaker 1: rock producers, they had their era, and they were done,

2118
01:57:21,280 --> 01:57:24,720
Speaker 1: and they were done long before your age. So to

2119
01:57:24,840 --> 01:57:28,480
Speaker 1: what degree when you work are you conscious of, well,

2120
01:57:28,560 --> 01:57:30,839
Speaker 1: you know, I gotta have a certain level of successor

2121
01:57:30,920 --> 01:57:33,480
Speaker 1: they're not gonna call me anymore. Yeah, I mean it's

2122
01:57:33,720 --> 01:57:38,240
Speaker 1: you live in abject terror, you know, if you're honest

2123
01:57:38,280 --> 01:57:43,040
Speaker 1: with yourself. Yeah, I'm I'm My expiration date was long

2124
01:57:43,160 --> 01:57:47,760
Speaker 1: time ago. This is a this is a really pertinent though.

2125
01:57:50,000 --> 01:57:53,320
Speaker 1: I think it was six years ago. I'll use the

2126
01:57:53,440 --> 01:57:57,320
Speaker 1: sports metaphors, but for me, it's easy baseball, right, you know,

2127
01:57:57,360 --> 01:57:59,720
Speaker 1: you're getting older and and and all of a sudden

2128
01:58:00,120 --> 01:58:02,920
Speaker 1: just seemed like they're coming in faster, and and it's

2129
01:58:02,960 --> 01:58:05,400
Speaker 1: not necessarily they are coming in faster. It's just that

2130
01:58:06,040 --> 01:58:10,040
Speaker 1: you know, gravity time, your reflexes slow down, things seem faster,

2131
01:58:10,680 --> 01:58:14,000
Speaker 1: and that's how music was starting to hit me, certainly

2132
01:58:14,720 --> 01:58:18,400
Speaker 1: six seven years ago, and uh, I had an artist.

2133
01:58:19,400 --> 01:58:22,880
Speaker 1: His name was Thomas Rhett. He was he was kind

2134
01:58:22,880 --> 01:58:27,560
Speaker 1: of shooting up like a meteor, really fresh ideas, a

2135
01:58:27,600 --> 01:58:30,200
Speaker 1: great guy, good songwriter, great songwriter, a matter of fact,

2136
01:58:30,320 --> 01:58:34,080
Speaker 1: prolific songwriter. He came over to my house and said,

2137
01:58:34,160 --> 01:58:37,480
Speaker 1: I'd like you to this is six years ago, seven

2138
01:58:37,560 --> 01:58:40,360
Speaker 1: years ago at the tops. That could be part of producing,

2139
01:58:40,400 --> 01:58:43,240
Speaker 1: but I'd like you to co produce with this producer,

2140
01:58:43,360 --> 01:58:51,200
Speaker 1: Jesse Fraser. Jesse's a DJ originally a songwriter, great production ideas,

2141
01:58:51,520 --> 01:58:54,040
Speaker 1: totally opposite for mine. He's he's all in the box,

2142
01:58:54,160 --> 01:58:57,840
Speaker 1: he he he draws music, you know. And I heard

2143
01:58:57,880 --> 01:58:59,240
Speaker 1: some of their demos. I said, well, why do you

2144
01:58:59,320 --> 01:59:04,360
Speaker 1: need me? And and and they they you And when

2145
01:59:04,360 --> 01:59:07,080
Speaker 1: I heard their demos, this is funny too. You love

2146
01:59:07,160 --> 01:59:10,120
Speaker 1: this background singer on a lot of the demos was

2147
01:59:10,200 --> 01:59:14,000
Speaker 1: Chris Stapleton. How you like that? Phenomenal? How the world

2148
01:59:14,120 --> 01:59:18,160
Speaker 1: goes so so? And truly I was being honest, I said,

2149
01:59:18,160 --> 01:59:19,680
Speaker 1: why don't need me? And it's just you know just

2150
01:59:19,760 --> 01:59:24,560
Speaker 1: that basically we just what you bring, who you are

2151
01:59:24,600 --> 01:59:27,080
Speaker 1: as a musician, just come and jump on the ship.

2152
01:59:28,240 --> 01:59:31,080
Speaker 1: I said, sure. I talked to my wife that night

2153
01:59:31,160 --> 01:59:34,680
Speaker 1: and I canna be honest with her, and I said,

2154
01:59:34,720 --> 01:59:37,120
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just this is I think I was

2155
01:59:37,240 --> 01:59:40,040
Speaker 1: mid fifties and and and I said, you know, because

2156
01:59:40,080 --> 01:59:41,960
Speaker 1: I'm feeling like, you know, maybe I should step out

2157
01:59:41,960 --> 01:59:44,000
Speaker 1: of this thing and just retire. You know, it's been

2158
01:59:44,040 --> 01:59:47,280
Speaker 1: good to me. I was trying to learn all the

2159
01:59:47,360 --> 01:59:50,280
Speaker 1: new technology, everything, just the way people did records, and

2160
01:59:50,320 --> 01:59:53,320
Speaker 1: it was it was overwhelming. And I found like I

2161
01:59:53,440 --> 01:59:57,360
Speaker 1: reached a saturation point and and you know, fear, you

2162
01:59:57,400 --> 01:59:59,760
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you become very vulnerable. And you

2163
01:59:59,840 --> 02:00:02,360
Speaker 1: know you're used to being in alpha, right, It's like

2164
02:00:02,440 --> 02:00:04,760
Speaker 1: you know everything, and all of a sudden you realizing

2165
02:00:04,840 --> 02:00:09,280
Speaker 1: your mortality here musically speaking. And and she and Sherry

2166
02:00:09,360 --> 02:00:11,800
Speaker 1: just said, she said, why don't she just be you? Dan,

2167
02:00:11,960 --> 02:00:14,480
Speaker 1: Why don't you quit trying to be what you're not?

2168
02:00:15,960 --> 02:00:19,000
Speaker 1: So simple? But it was like I I was so

2169
02:00:19,240 --> 02:00:21,360
Speaker 1: looking in every other direction, and I thought, well, yeah,

2170
02:00:21,480 --> 02:00:23,720
Speaker 1: it sounds like a good idea. So I started that.

2171
02:00:24,840 --> 02:00:30,680
Speaker 1: I started that started to try to enact that in

2172
02:00:30,760 --> 02:00:33,240
Speaker 1: the way that I made music that time and I

2173
02:00:33,440 --> 02:00:36,960
Speaker 1: and I tried to be open when I didn't know something.

2174
02:00:37,680 --> 02:00:42,040
Speaker 1: I also tried not to be the center. And and

2175
02:00:42,240 --> 02:00:48,000
Speaker 1: so this co production venture with with Jesse Frasier basically

2176
02:00:48,800 --> 02:00:52,880
Speaker 1: revived me musically and it was like, oh, I can

2177
02:00:53,040 --> 02:00:57,480
Speaker 1: make music again with another generation. This is a lot

2178
02:00:57,520 --> 02:01:02,400
Speaker 1: of times around the track it can be valid and

2179
02:01:02,560 --> 02:01:05,360
Speaker 1: not only can I contribute, but now I can also learn.

2180
02:01:05,960 --> 02:01:09,560
Speaker 1: But it requires a different uh ego status And I

2181
02:01:09,640 --> 02:01:12,240
Speaker 1: can't be the alpha at all times. I can be sometimes,

2182
02:01:12,320 --> 02:01:14,880
Speaker 1: I mean, but but not all the time. And and

2183
02:01:14,960 --> 02:01:16,919
Speaker 1: it was it's all. It was a whole new discipline

2184
02:01:16,960 --> 02:01:20,120
Speaker 1: for me, and and not not automatic. I will say

2185
02:01:20,160 --> 02:01:24,040
Speaker 1: that it was some bumps and and if I'm honest,

2186
02:01:24,160 --> 02:01:27,520
Speaker 1: there's still some bumps. It's it's it's it's tough. You know,

2187
02:01:27,600 --> 02:01:31,200
Speaker 1: when you're successful, you want to be that person, you know,

2188
02:01:31,440 --> 02:01:35,360
Speaker 1: and and uh, but I think it's it's it's it's

2189
02:01:35,400 --> 02:01:38,240
Speaker 1: been the thing that's kept. It's like the extra lives

2190
02:01:38,280 --> 02:01:40,600
Speaker 1: and on a you know, pac Man video game, right,

2191
02:01:40,680 --> 02:01:45,640
Speaker 1: there's there's the old reference and and it's that humbling

2192
02:01:45,760 --> 02:01:48,960
Speaker 1: thing of of going for a full circle. You see

2193
02:01:49,320 --> 02:01:51,920
Speaker 1: music not only through your lens through the years you've

2194
02:01:51,960 --> 02:01:54,160
Speaker 1: been lucky to experience it, but you also realize that

2195
02:01:54,240 --> 02:01:56,800
Speaker 1: you don't own it. You that it's owned by all

2196
02:01:57,040 --> 02:01:59,800
Speaker 1: and and you realize that that there are eighteen year

2197
02:01:59,800 --> 02:02:03,680
Speaker 1: old are coming up that have as much skin in

2198
02:02:03,720 --> 02:02:07,960
Speaker 1: the game as you do. And either you allow yourself

2199
02:02:08,040 --> 02:02:11,880
Speaker 1: to listen to that fully open minded without this well

2200
02:02:12,160 --> 02:02:14,720
Speaker 1: look kid, oh here's how when it goes in my day,

2201
02:02:15,160 --> 02:02:17,000
Speaker 1: that's the that's the beginning of the end for you.

2202
02:02:17,240 --> 02:02:19,080
Speaker 1: So I I learned that, you know. So it's a

2203
02:02:19,120 --> 02:02:21,880
Speaker 1: balancing act every day. And sometimes I'll be honest, I

2204
02:02:22,080 --> 02:02:24,640
Speaker 1: I come home and I you know, I have I

2205
02:02:24,680 --> 02:02:28,240
Speaker 1: struggle with it, you know, because I struggle with being

2206
02:02:28,360 --> 02:02:31,520
Speaker 1: in control, and I struggle with also the fact that,

2207
02:02:31,960 --> 02:02:35,200
Speaker 1: if I'm honest, some of this stuff is just absolutely

2208
02:02:35,240 --> 02:02:38,120
Speaker 1: new to me, and I can't believe that I can't

2209
02:02:38,160 --> 02:02:42,240
Speaker 1: see it, you know, it's like God. So either I

2210
02:02:42,320 --> 02:02:46,000
Speaker 1: go I've learned something today that's that's fantastic, or I'm

2211
02:02:46,080 --> 02:02:49,240
Speaker 1: just a little bit more not just humbled, but but

2212
02:02:49,560 --> 02:02:51,880
Speaker 1: but frightened by the fact that I don't know all

2213
02:02:51,920 --> 02:02:54,200
Speaker 1: this stuff coming at me. So I don't know if

2214
02:02:54,240 --> 02:02:55,920
Speaker 1: that's an answer to what you're what you're saying, but

2215
02:02:55,960 --> 02:02:57,960
Speaker 1: that's a great answer. But can you tell me a

2216
02:02:58,040 --> 02:03:02,240
Speaker 1: couple of things you know that you didn't, weren't aware of,

2217
02:03:02,400 --> 02:03:04,640
Speaker 1: or that you learned in this change in the last

2218
02:03:04,720 --> 02:03:09,160
Speaker 1: six years. Well, I mean starting with one, that that

2219
02:03:09,880 --> 02:03:12,600
Speaker 1: that my insights are valid still to this day. That's

2220
02:03:12,600 --> 02:03:14,680
Speaker 1: a that was a big one. That In other words,

2221
02:03:14,960 --> 02:03:17,240
Speaker 1: the stuff we were talking about a while ago, about

2222
02:03:17,240 --> 02:03:22,600
Speaker 1: the seventies and in the eighties, that stuff. New musicians

2223
02:03:22,640 --> 02:03:25,080
Speaker 1: are hungry to have access to some of that stuff,

2224
02:03:25,120 --> 02:03:28,600
Speaker 1: and they want people who were there. It's not just uh,

2225
02:03:29,000 --> 02:03:32,960
Speaker 1: exercise and history. They wanted to talk to people and

2226
02:03:33,160 --> 02:03:39,080
Speaker 1: experience those insights. Okay, that's one thing. But the stuff

2227
02:03:39,120 --> 02:03:41,840
Speaker 1: that was that was that was frightening, frightening to me

2228
02:03:42,000 --> 02:03:46,320
Speaker 1: was the technology. How you know, we all hit our

2229
02:03:46,400 --> 02:03:50,920
Speaker 1: threshold of what we're able to do technologically, um just

2230
02:03:51,200 --> 02:03:55,800
Speaker 1: even just even down to something simple like samples, programming,

2231
02:03:55,880 --> 02:03:58,640
Speaker 1: all these things you watch You watch some of these

2232
02:03:58,720 --> 02:04:03,320
Speaker 1: young musicians on a laptop, and the speed with which

2233
02:04:03,400 --> 02:04:06,600
Speaker 1: they can process stuff is it is foreign to me.

2234
02:04:07,880 --> 02:04:11,040
Speaker 1: And when you try to learn that you're learning it

2235
02:04:13,040 --> 02:04:15,320
Speaker 1: it's like you're an old dude. That's all. That's what's

2236
02:04:15,360 --> 02:04:18,280
Speaker 1: just really what it is, right, So you have to say,

2237
02:04:18,680 --> 02:04:20,480
Speaker 1: you know, either I'm gonna spend all my time trying

2238
02:04:20,520 --> 02:04:23,000
Speaker 1: to learn something that somebody's gonna be much more intuitive

2239
02:04:23,040 --> 02:04:25,800
Speaker 1: than I am at, or you can just go, I'm

2240
02:04:25,800 --> 02:04:28,640
Speaker 1: gonna collaborate with you. You do that and I'll do this.

2241
02:04:30,680 --> 02:04:33,080
Speaker 1: Jesse Frasier was great on the I mean what he

2242
02:04:33,120 --> 02:04:35,560
Speaker 1: could do on a laptop and drawing stuff. He didn't

2243
02:04:35,560 --> 02:04:38,160
Speaker 1: even know what the chords were called. The music he's

2244
02:04:38,200 --> 02:04:42,560
Speaker 1: making is phenomenal. I can also play put a guitar

2245
02:04:42,640 --> 02:04:44,080
Speaker 1: and he and he doesn't know how to do that.

2246
02:04:45,120 --> 02:04:48,320
Speaker 1: It's collaboration, That's what it is. What are a couple

2247
02:04:48,360 --> 02:04:51,600
Speaker 1: of records from the last five ten years that you

2248
02:04:51,640 --> 02:04:55,080
Speaker 1: were not involved with that you think are great? Well?

2249
02:04:55,320 --> 02:04:57,400
Speaker 1: You mentioned Dave Cobb. I mean I love his Chris

2250
02:04:57,640 --> 02:05:00,200
Speaker 1: Chris stable Ts. I mean, let's just talk regional here.

2251
02:05:00,240 --> 02:05:03,560
Speaker 1: I mean Nashville. Is that is that? Okay? Yeah? I

2252
02:05:03,600 --> 02:05:06,320
Speaker 1: mean yeah, because it's just that's what I meant, because

2253
02:05:06,320 --> 02:05:09,000
Speaker 1: I would love to mention Silk Sonic. I love that

2254
02:05:09,680 --> 02:05:12,480
Speaker 1: new stuff. Okay, the Silk Sonic, let's go into that.

2255
02:05:12,920 --> 02:05:16,880
Speaker 1: I don't think the material is as good as the execution. Yeah,

2256
02:05:16,920 --> 02:05:19,000
Speaker 1: I mean first at first, blessed. I mean it's just

2257
02:05:19,080 --> 02:05:22,960
Speaker 1: you're just listening to to to to these guys pay

2258
02:05:23,040 --> 02:05:25,760
Speaker 1: homage to to the grades of soul, I mean, and

2259
02:05:25,840 --> 02:05:28,560
Speaker 1: they do it. I'm not even care Again, this is

2260
02:05:28,600 --> 02:05:30,640
Speaker 1: a musician. I don't give a shit about the material

2261
02:05:30,680 --> 02:05:33,520
Speaker 1: at that point. I just care about the sound. You know, well,

2262
02:05:33,560 --> 02:05:36,600
Speaker 1: definitely the sound is there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know.

2263
02:05:36,720 --> 02:05:39,520
Speaker 1: I mean like in like in Okay, in Nashville, since

2264
02:05:39,560 --> 02:05:44,560
Speaker 1: we're just local here right mentioned Dave's records. Jay Joyce,

2265
02:05:44,840 --> 02:05:47,360
Speaker 1: I mean some of some of those Brothers Osborne records,

2266
02:05:47,680 --> 02:05:51,080
Speaker 1: some of the Eric Church records. I mean, Jay comes

2267
02:05:51,120 --> 02:05:53,120
Speaker 1: from a different plan too. He's a real indie kind

2268
02:05:53,160 --> 02:05:57,160
Speaker 1: of music maker. I just I love everything he does.

2269
02:05:57,320 --> 02:05:59,240
Speaker 1: I just I turn it up. That's when I when

2270
02:05:59,240 --> 02:06:00,720
Speaker 1: I hear it, it's like it was on the radio

2271
02:06:00,840 --> 02:06:03,600
Speaker 1: or if I'm streaming it, I just listen because I

2272
02:06:03,760 --> 02:06:06,600
Speaker 1: like the way he processes music. There's a there's a

2273
02:06:09,280 --> 02:06:15,560
Speaker 1: simplicity and almost a kind of a cold hard indifference

2274
02:06:15,680 --> 02:06:19,480
Speaker 1: sometimes to his music that is so appealing to me.

2275
02:06:19,720 --> 02:06:24,240
Speaker 1: You know, like he's not needy, it's it's gotta fuck

2276
02:06:24,320 --> 02:06:28,480
Speaker 1: you attitude, and that's not something that I have. I'm

2277
02:06:28,520 --> 02:06:31,640
Speaker 1: a little more like you like it. You know, Jay

2278
02:06:31,760 --> 02:06:36,960
Speaker 1: makes records that that really appealed to me. Um, yeah,

2279
02:06:38,040 --> 02:06:40,680
Speaker 1: those are records that I really like. Um and pretty

2280
02:06:40,760 --> 02:06:43,600
Speaker 1: much across the board, I will say that I don't

2281
02:06:43,600 --> 02:06:45,200
Speaker 1: even know Jay that well, but I just I'm a

2282
02:06:45,320 --> 02:06:51,360
Speaker 1: I'm a fan. I just think he's great. Um. I

2283
02:06:51,480 --> 02:06:55,440
Speaker 1: mentioned I'm trying to think like Joey Joey Moyd. You know,

2284
02:06:55,560 --> 02:06:57,880
Speaker 1: you know Joey have you ever talked to him? Never

2285
02:06:57,960 --> 02:07:00,640
Speaker 1: talked to him? Canadian Music Acre, you know, he and

2286
02:07:00,720 --> 02:07:04,080
Speaker 1: he came through the Mutt, He came through the God.

2287
02:07:04,520 --> 02:07:08,200
Speaker 1: Now I'm this is this is the a A r

2288
02:07:08,320 --> 02:07:12,400
Speaker 1: P forgetting names of bands, right, I hate this ship? Um,

2289
02:07:13,400 --> 02:07:17,520
Speaker 1: Canadian nickelback. There you go. He came through that camp.

2290
02:07:17,640 --> 02:07:20,720
Speaker 1: That's a pretty tough camp. Right. They made some hardcore

2291
02:07:21,160 --> 02:07:23,520
Speaker 1: commercial rock records, you know, and Mutt actually made a

2292
02:07:23,560 --> 02:07:27,640
Speaker 1: record with them. Right. But Joey came through that camp

2293
02:07:28,240 --> 02:07:32,680
Speaker 1: and learned everything. He's a sponge and he makes some

2294
02:07:32,880 --> 02:07:35,720
Speaker 1: records in Nashville I think are stunning, whether you like

2295
02:07:35,880 --> 02:07:39,360
Speaker 1: him musically or not, for for the content, like I

2296
02:07:39,440 --> 02:07:41,720
Speaker 1: thought some of his Florida, Georgia line stuff was pretty

2297
02:07:41,760 --> 02:07:45,360
Speaker 1: impactful stuff. He's doing this music with this guy named

2298
02:07:45,400 --> 02:07:51,520
Speaker 1: Morgan Wallen right now, that's really resonating. So Joey's multi multifaceted,

2299
02:07:51,600 --> 02:07:57,360
Speaker 1: you know, and and he's he's just a smart music maker. Um. Yeah,

2300
02:07:57,480 --> 02:08:00,360
Speaker 1: I'll turn his stuff up to you know, like I'm

2301
02:08:00,400 --> 02:08:04,040
Speaker 1: looking for any new ideas anything, you know. So what

2302
02:08:04,160 --> 02:08:06,320
Speaker 1: do you think of the Morgan wall And double album.

2303
02:08:06,560 --> 02:08:08,600
Speaker 1: I even listened to the whole thing. I like Morgan Walland.

2304
02:08:08,600 --> 02:08:11,560
Speaker 1: I think he's a really good songwriter. I like his

2305
02:08:11,800 --> 02:08:14,760
Speaker 1: you know, forgetting the whole controversy and all that other stuff.

2306
02:08:14,800 --> 02:08:18,360
Speaker 1: There's a few controversies. The album, the double up is

2307
02:08:18,400 --> 02:08:22,080
Speaker 1: really good, really good people, you know, outside of country.

2308
02:08:22,800 --> 02:08:25,200
Speaker 1: It's one of these things where you listen to the

2309
02:08:25,280 --> 02:08:28,000
Speaker 1: record you can tell why it's so successful. He speaks

2310
02:08:28,280 --> 02:08:32,320
Speaker 1: right to people. It's he's not fabricating hit songs. He's

2311
02:08:32,480 --> 02:08:35,560
Speaker 1: he's he's he's he's telling his life. I mean the

2312
02:08:35,640 --> 02:08:38,120
Speaker 1: funny I just recorded a song of his. He was

2313
02:08:38,160 --> 02:08:40,760
Speaker 1: one of the co writers on uh. Keith Urban and

2314
02:08:40,840 --> 02:08:43,640
Speaker 1: I are kind of re saddling and doing some music together,

2315
02:08:43,640 --> 02:08:46,400
Speaker 1: which has been a lot of fun lately because we've

2316
02:08:46,480 --> 02:08:48,080
Speaker 1: had a few years. We haven't made a lot of music.

2317
02:08:48,280 --> 02:08:49,800
Speaker 1: We made a couple of singles and stuff like that.

2318
02:08:50,400 --> 02:08:51,720
Speaker 1: But we were doing a song on the other day

2319
02:08:51,720 --> 02:08:53,720
Speaker 1: and I asked him who the songwriters where He said,

2320
02:08:54,040 --> 02:08:55,880
Speaker 1: you know, Morgan was one of the songwriters. It's like

2321
02:08:56,440 --> 02:09:00,920
Speaker 1: and the alliteration, the it's like it's poetry, you know.

2322
02:09:01,120 --> 02:09:03,720
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's from a I'm not you can

2323
02:09:03,800 --> 02:09:06,960
Speaker 1: tell I'm not like a like a full on Southerner, right,

2324
02:09:07,880 --> 02:09:09,440
Speaker 1: I've lived most of my life in the South, but

2325
02:09:09,560 --> 02:09:11,720
Speaker 1: my parents are from the North, so consequently I'm a

2326
02:09:11,800 --> 02:09:17,360
Speaker 1: bit more of a Yankee, you know. But but there's

2327
02:09:17,400 --> 02:09:20,440
Speaker 1: a heart to what he does that you can't help

2328
02:09:20,480 --> 02:09:23,320
Speaker 1: but be attracted to. So yeah, and those records that

2329
02:09:23,400 --> 02:09:25,080
Speaker 1: Joey does with him or as good as what he

2330
02:09:25,120 --> 02:09:27,840
Speaker 1: did with Florida Georgia. Okay, but not only is their heart,

2331
02:09:28,000 --> 02:09:32,120
Speaker 1: they're good changes. Yeah, yeah, No, he's he's he's a

2332
02:09:32,200 --> 02:09:34,680
Speaker 1: lightning rod, you know. And and some of this stuff,

2333
02:09:34,720 --> 02:09:38,880
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like this other stuff got for me,

2334
02:09:39,080 --> 02:09:41,360
Speaker 1: got blown out of a context. I mean, you know,

2335
02:09:41,440 --> 02:09:43,160
Speaker 1: i mean, without going into all this stuff, it's just

2336
02:09:43,720 --> 02:09:47,120
Speaker 1: it's it's so pc oriented, you know, it's like, it's like,

2337
02:09:47,320 --> 02:09:53,839
Speaker 1: I love what what Trevor Noah said about YEA Kanye.

2338
02:09:54,000 --> 02:09:56,720
Speaker 1: I can't call him a But the other day he said,

2339
02:09:56,920 --> 02:09:58,680
Speaker 1: you know, he doesn't need to be canceled, he needs

2340
02:09:58,760 --> 02:10:02,320
Speaker 1: he's counseling. You know. It's like exactly life. It's like,

2341
02:10:02,480 --> 02:10:07,480
Speaker 1: come on, come on, you know, yeah, Morgan Morrigan. Yeah,

2342
02:10:07,960 --> 02:10:11,560
Speaker 1: he drink too much, probably yeah, but I mean, come on,

2343
02:10:12,520 --> 02:10:16,400
Speaker 1: he's young. He got drunk one night, made a racial

2344
02:10:16,520 --> 02:10:19,879
Speaker 1: slur that he definitely shouldn't have said, but he apologized profusely.

2345
02:10:20,120 --> 02:10:23,000
Speaker 1: We gotta forgive him, give him a second chance to

2346
02:10:23,120 --> 02:10:25,920
Speaker 1: take somebody like that and to judge because of one

2347
02:10:26,080 --> 02:10:31,200
Speaker 1: snippet one night on somebody's phone. It's like, that's ridiculous.

2348
02:10:31,640 --> 02:10:33,960
Speaker 1: None of us would want that about ourselves, you know.

2349
02:10:34,560 --> 02:10:37,120
Speaker 1: So I think he's I think he's a I think

2350
02:10:37,160 --> 02:10:40,640
Speaker 1: he's a true voice. Do I agree with him and

2351
02:10:40,720 --> 02:10:43,440
Speaker 1: all of his and everything he says and acts? No,

2352
02:10:43,840 --> 02:10:47,320
Speaker 1: he'll no. But I mean, isn't that rock and roll too?

2353
02:10:48,240 --> 02:10:53,280
Speaker 1: But you mentioned ye Kanye? Do you understand that music?

2354
02:10:53,560 --> 02:10:56,680
Speaker 1: And I'm drawn to certain aspects of it, But but

2355
02:10:56,920 --> 02:11:02,440
Speaker 1: culturally I didn't grow up urban inner city right, right?

2356
02:11:02,560 --> 02:11:05,720
Speaker 1: I mean that's not that's that's not my language, it's

2357
02:11:05,760 --> 02:11:11,120
Speaker 1: not my culture. Um. I hear certain bits of hip

2358
02:11:11,160 --> 02:11:14,400
Speaker 1: hop music. Um. And this is where God help me

2359
02:11:14,440 --> 02:11:16,800
Speaker 1: out here, Bob right on the tip of my tongue.

2360
02:11:17,360 --> 02:11:22,480
Speaker 1: Super Bowl dr Nope, it wasn't Snoop dog Nope, keep going.

2361
02:11:22,520 --> 02:11:26,880
Speaker 1: I love them both. I love Snoop Dog. Um, keep going, Nope,

2362
02:11:27,000 --> 02:11:30,360
Speaker 1: keep going, Come on, j no, I love her to

2363
02:11:30,560 --> 02:11:32,920
Speaker 1: keep going. The last one on the on the talking

2364
02:11:32,960 --> 02:11:39,160
Speaker 1: about said nope, nope. Great, Okay, there's and there's Bowl.

2365
02:11:39,360 --> 02:11:41,960
Speaker 1: There was one, there was one more. And this is

2366
02:11:42,080 --> 02:11:46,440
Speaker 1: so embarrassing. He his his brand of hip hop music

2367
02:11:47,120 --> 02:11:50,040
Speaker 1: absolutely obliterates me. Not that I know the titles of

2368
02:11:50,120 --> 02:11:53,080
Speaker 1: his songs. And the embarrassing thing is I cannot remember

2369
02:11:53,200 --> 02:11:58,000
Speaker 1: his name right now. Kendrick Lamar, thank you, thank you.

2370
02:11:58,320 --> 02:12:01,960
Speaker 1: That's in my apologies. If Kendrick and Lamar would ever

2371
02:12:02,040 --> 02:12:06,640
Speaker 1: hear this. This is massive apologies, like for sixty one

2372
02:12:06,800 --> 02:12:10,360
Speaker 1: White Dude. Right. Like when I his his music really

2373
02:12:10,480 --> 02:12:14,160
Speaker 1: impacts me when I hear it presentation that cadence, the

2374
02:12:14,240 --> 02:12:17,600
Speaker 1: chord changes, there's a fusion with with with jazz music

2375
02:12:17,720 --> 02:12:21,280
Speaker 1: that it really excites me. Harmonically with his music. Um,

2376
02:12:23,320 --> 02:12:25,000
Speaker 1: not all rock music hits me, you know, I mean

2377
02:12:25,280 --> 02:12:28,200
Speaker 1: so so so not definitely. Not all hip hop music

2378
02:12:28,360 --> 02:12:31,160
Speaker 1: is gonna strike me, strike the same chord. Not all

2379
02:12:31,200 --> 02:12:34,360
Speaker 1: country music hits me either, you know. So so it's

2380
02:12:34,400 --> 02:12:37,040
Speaker 1: just you know, we all we all gravitate towards a

2381
02:12:37,160 --> 02:12:39,520
Speaker 1: thing that resonates. There's there's a there's a tuning fork

2382
02:12:39,600 --> 02:12:42,800
Speaker 1: in our soul, right, and certain music hits that tuning fork.

2383
02:12:43,680 --> 02:12:45,880
Speaker 1: You know, that's what makes it interesting. Well, I really

2384
02:12:45,960 --> 02:12:48,880
Speaker 1: believe the tuning fork. But ill, I'm checking myself all

2385
02:12:48,960 --> 02:12:51,640
Speaker 1: the time, and I say, well, if I heard the

2386
02:12:51,720 --> 02:12:55,520
Speaker 1: song twenty times, what I feel differently? You know the

2387
02:12:55,600 --> 02:12:57,800
Speaker 1: way we did in the old days. You're driving around

2388
02:12:57,840 --> 02:13:00,600
Speaker 1: with the radio, You're exposed. You're exposed again. I can

2389
02:13:01,000 --> 02:13:05,040
Speaker 1: name I'm teen songs I heard once and I knew it. Yeah, okay,

2390
02:13:05,880 --> 02:13:09,280
Speaker 1: And it's funny because when something resonates with my tuning fork.

2391
02:13:09,320 --> 02:13:12,920
Speaker 1: But moving on, anybody that you would like to work

2392
02:13:13,000 --> 02:13:15,240
Speaker 1: with you haven't worked with? Yeah, my well, I mean

2393
02:13:15,320 --> 02:13:17,960
Speaker 1: my dream you know, I mean is that you know

2394
02:13:18,320 --> 02:13:21,240
Speaker 1: I would love to work with with? You know YouTube?

2395
02:13:22,120 --> 02:13:24,640
Speaker 1: How's that? Okay? What would you do differently? What? What

2396
02:13:24,760 --> 02:13:27,120
Speaker 1: is what would you bring to the party. I can't

2397
02:13:27,360 --> 02:13:29,920
Speaker 1: you know, I wouldn't know off the top of the batot.

2398
02:13:29,960 --> 02:13:32,400
Speaker 1: I have to hear with it. What is There's something

2399
02:13:32,480 --> 02:13:35,600
Speaker 1: about what they did culturally at a time that I

2400
02:13:35,680 --> 02:13:40,720
Speaker 1: was coming through music, Their their intelligence, their life experience.

2401
02:13:43,000 --> 02:13:47,880
Speaker 1: It's it's rock. Music doesn't age gracefully most of the time.

2402
02:13:48,000 --> 02:13:49,800
Speaker 1: You know, it's a tough thing because it's it's a

2403
02:13:49,920 --> 02:13:56,120
Speaker 1: it's an adolescent urge right in necessary you know, so

2404
02:13:56,320 --> 02:14:00,800
Speaker 1: intellectually you have to have a different been, a different

2405
02:14:00,840 --> 02:14:04,760
Speaker 1: pursuit to to to keep connecting. I mean, it can't

2406
02:14:04,800 --> 02:14:07,080
Speaker 1: connect to the same level when you're young. It just

2407
02:14:07,240 --> 02:14:13,320
Speaker 1: it's it doesn't exist. That doesn't exist. But musically, um lyrically,

2408
02:14:13,520 --> 02:14:16,200
Speaker 1: even spiritually kind of where they come from. I'm interested

2409
02:14:16,240 --> 02:14:19,440
Speaker 1: that they interest me. That's the that that type of

2410
02:14:19,760 --> 02:14:22,880
Speaker 1: artists interests me. Now, I'm sure you asked me that night.

2411
02:14:23,320 --> 02:14:26,440
Speaker 1: Immediately that's my dream. That's shooting for the moon, right,

2412
02:14:27,000 --> 02:14:29,120
Speaker 1: will that happened? Oh yeah, you might as well go

2413
02:14:29,240 --> 02:14:33,520
Speaker 1: with the dream. And they've worked with the same people consistently,

2414
02:14:34,240 --> 02:14:37,800
Speaker 1: so for me, it would be interesting. Did you watch

2415
02:14:37,880 --> 02:14:40,840
Speaker 1: that movie? It might get loud with Jack. Why Jimmy

2416
02:14:40,960 --> 02:14:45,000
Speaker 1: Page and the Edge. No, it's just very interesting that

2417
02:14:45,280 --> 02:14:48,920
Speaker 1: so much of the Edge is sound are effects, no doubt,

2418
02:14:49,080 --> 02:14:52,240
Speaker 1: but he is. But the irony about that, right is

2419
02:14:52,320 --> 02:14:56,400
Speaker 1: that he has affected guitar players as much as anybody else. Period.

2420
02:14:56,480 --> 02:14:59,480
Speaker 1: Well I'm trying to say is, since you're starting, it's

2421
02:14:59,480 --> 02:15:03,080
Speaker 1: not like effects coming in and one take whale. Since

2422
02:15:03,120 --> 02:15:06,120
Speaker 1: you're starting someone who's laying effects, that's where you could

2423
02:15:06,400 --> 02:15:09,240
Speaker 1: help out. That's where you can do something. Maybe, I mean,

2424
02:15:10,520 --> 02:15:12,000
Speaker 1: I'm saying it probably because I just like to be

2425
02:15:12,120 --> 02:15:15,440
Speaker 1: in the room. I mean, yeah, it just seems to

2426
02:15:15,560 --> 02:15:19,800
Speaker 1: me more like like like he deals with layers. He's

2427
02:15:19,840 --> 02:15:22,320
Speaker 1: an orchestrator, right, and it's it's a different type of

2428
02:15:22,960 --> 02:15:25,800
Speaker 1: using guitar for a different purpose, right, It's not guitar

2429
02:15:25,920 --> 02:15:29,960
Speaker 1: for guitar, say Jeff Beck, if we're if I'm being honest,

2430
02:15:30,200 --> 02:15:35,000
Speaker 1: the one guitar player who I would most like to

2431
02:15:35,040 --> 02:15:37,240
Speaker 1: be in a room with would be Jeff Beck, period.

2432
02:15:37,600 --> 02:15:39,920
Speaker 1: Hands down. He's gonna die one day and the people

2433
02:15:39,960 --> 02:15:42,680
Speaker 1: who didn't see him are really gonna you know, I

2434
02:15:42,800 --> 02:15:46,120
Speaker 1: think he's the best. Jimmy Page brings other stuff. Hendrix

2435
02:15:46,200 --> 02:15:47,920
Speaker 1: means other stuff. But when you have to choose one.

2436
02:15:47,960 --> 02:15:50,240
Speaker 1: It's Jeff Beck for me and plays without a pick

2437
02:15:50,320 --> 02:15:52,760
Speaker 1: to boot. Yeah, I've seen him several times, like I

2438
02:15:52,880 --> 02:15:55,720
Speaker 1: just you know, all you all you do is sit

2439
02:15:55,800 --> 02:15:57,440
Speaker 1: there and just I got to see him at the

2440
02:15:57,680 --> 02:16:01,320
Speaker 1: the Um at the Rhyman Artistorium one time in Nashville.

2441
02:16:01,800 --> 02:16:05,120
Speaker 1: It's a great small theater, right, but acoustically it's beautiful.

2442
02:16:05,960 --> 02:16:09,280
Speaker 1: And you know, every guitar player in Nashville was there.

2443
02:16:09,360 --> 02:16:11,760
Speaker 1: It was you know, you're you're there talking about they

2444
02:16:11,800 --> 02:16:14,960
Speaker 1: called the Mother Church. Well you're there, you're basically worshiping

2445
02:16:15,040 --> 02:16:19,120
Speaker 1: this guy. And he didn't disappoint you know. No, it's

2446
02:16:19,160 --> 02:16:23,040
Speaker 1: just it's it's it's it's we're soul in electric guitar,

2447
02:16:23,440 --> 02:16:30,880
Speaker 1: meat and the and there's nothing more to say, tone, note, choice, dynamics,

2448
02:16:31,000 --> 02:16:32,880
Speaker 1: just everything about what he does, you know. I mean

2449
02:16:32,920 --> 02:16:36,640
Speaker 1: it's like it's it's it's, it's it's it is there

2450
02:16:36,760 --> 02:16:38,640
Speaker 1: is something. I mean, this is where music is, this

2451
02:16:38,760 --> 02:16:43,080
Speaker 1: transcendent level. Right. It ain't about hit songs, that's the thing, right,

2452
02:16:43,120 --> 02:16:45,400
Speaker 1: There's there's certain things we remember, there are hit songs.

2453
02:16:46,200 --> 02:16:48,920
Speaker 1: This is a different thing and it's and it's it's

2454
02:16:49,040 --> 02:16:53,440
Speaker 1: integral to our lives as those hit songs are. When

2455
02:16:53,520 --> 02:16:58,320
Speaker 1: he plays notes, it says more than a hit song.

2456
02:16:58,480 --> 02:17:00,600
Speaker 1: To me, it certainly does so much longer are you

2457
02:17:00,680 --> 02:17:03,600
Speaker 1: going to do this? It's a great question, you know.

2458
02:17:04,320 --> 02:17:06,960
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm gonna stop making music. I don't.

2459
02:17:07,080 --> 02:17:09,119
Speaker 1: I don't know how long I'm going to continue making

2460
02:17:09,200 --> 02:17:12,840
Speaker 1: what we would call commercial based music. I do have

2461
02:17:13,000 --> 02:17:16,320
Speaker 1: some other types of music. I mean you mentioned Dave Cobb.

2462
02:17:18,240 --> 02:17:22,920
Speaker 1: I love soundtrack music. I love music that's not commercial music.

2463
02:17:23,200 --> 02:17:25,800
Speaker 1: That's the irony that the stuff that I get called

2464
02:17:25,879 --> 02:17:30,360
Speaker 1: to do is is not necessarily what what I spend

2465
02:17:30,440 --> 02:17:33,640
Speaker 1: my time listening to. So I I I hope that

2466
02:17:33,720 --> 02:17:37,720
Speaker 1: I get to do some music. Um, there's just there's

2467
02:17:37,760 --> 02:17:42,680
Speaker 1: just writer in town that writes great poetry. His name

2468
02:17:42,800 --> 02:17:46,640
Speaker 1: is Mike Read. I don't know if you where you

2469
02:17:46,680 --> 02:17:50,680
Speaker 1: would know Mike Read's name is. His most famous song

2470
02:17:50,840 --> 02:17:52,720
Speaker 1: is a song that Bonnie Rate did called I Can't

2471
02:17:52,760 --> 02:17:57,720
Speaker 1: Make You Love Me? Sure right? And and it's like

2472
02:17:58,360 --> 02:18:02,360
Speaker 1: he writes. Mike's in his seventies. He he spends a

2473
02:18:02,400 --> 02:18:05,400
Speaker 1: lot of his time writing poetry now, and his poetry

2474
02:18:05,520 --> 02:18:10,280
Speaker 1: is devastating. He's he's like one of my dearest friends.

2475
02:18:10,400 --> 02:18:15,640
Speaker 1: We spend time talking about authors and everything is sept music.

2476
02:18:15,720 --> 02:18:20,000
Speaker 1: But but but we're musicians, right, And uh, the thing

2477
02:18:20,080 --> 02:18:23,680
Speaker 1: about the he writes songs that are not commercials like

2478
02:18:23,760 --> 02:18:25,920
Speaker 1: what we would call commercial songs now, because he's writing

2479
02:18:25,959 --> 02:18:28,680
Speaker 1: from a perspective of living life seventy plus years. By

2480
02:18:28,720 --> 02:18:31,720
Speaker 1: the way, he was also all pro defensive end for

2481
02:18:31,760 --> 02:18:35,840
Speaker 1: the Cincinnati Bengals, So he's he's in the song where

2482
02:18:35,879 --> 02:18:38,359
Speaker 1: he was all pro and he's also in the songwriting

2483
02:18:38,400 --> 02:18:41,200
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame right here. So but he writes these

2484
02:18:41,280 --> 02:18:46,760
Speaker 1: songs that are so cool. Um, they're not They're not

2485
02:18:46,879 --> 02:18:50,240
Speaker 1: like hit songs for kids to do, right, but they

2486
02:18:50,400 --> 02:18:54,320
Speaker 1: deal with with substance and and thoughts that that are

2487
02:18:54,600 --> 02:18:57,000
Speaker 1: becoming of of somebody who's lived seventy years on earth.

2488
02:18:57,200 --> 02:18:59,640
Speaker 1: I'd love to work with an artist would want to

2489
02:18:59,640 --> 02:19:02,520
Speaker 1: record that kind of music, to do that kind of

2490
02:19:02,600 --> 02:19:05,640
Speaker 1: music right, not on the grid of popular music. And

2491
02:19:06,000 --> 02:19:08,160
Speaker 1: I think I think I have something to add for that.

2492
02:19:08,280 --> 02:19:11,880
Speaker 1: So so and by the way, Alan Shamlin too was

2493
02:19:12,360 --> 02:19:13,880
Speaker 1: co wrote that song with him. I don't want to

2494
02:19:13,920 --> 02:19:15,600
Speaker 1: just give all the credit to might read on that

2495
02:19:15,680 --> 02:19:17,720
Speaker 1: it was one of the best pop songs of a

2496
02:19:17,879 --> 02:19:22,480
Speaker 1: of a couple of decades, right, Um, but that I

2497
02:19:23,040 --> 02:19:25,879
Speaker 1: find that compelling. I'd like to make some music down

2498
02:19:27,280 --> 02:19:30,320
Speaker 1: just I don't know, just something like that. Well, that's

2499
02:19:30,360 --> 02:19:33,280
Speaker 1: the real music. You know. Another great writer. I just

2500
02:19:33,400 --> 02:19:36,320
Speaker 1: have to mention, although he's self contained on those Bondie

2501
02:19:36,400 --> 02:19:40,400
Speaker 1: Rate records, Paul Brady, of those songs like luck of

2502
02:19:40,480 --> 02:19:44,039
Speaker 1: the Draw of the title song and you know it's

2503
02:19:44,120 --> 02:19:47,000
Speaker 1: just a lyrics, etcetera. He had a chance, like thirty

2504
02:19:47,080 --> 02:19:51,400
Speaker 1: years ago to break Biggie, worked with Steely Dan's producer,

2505
02:19:51,560 --> 02:19:56,600
Speaker 1: but didn't happen. Although he's an icon in in Ireland. Brady. Yeah,

2506
02:19:57,360 --> 02:19:59,959
Speaker 1: you're not familiar with Bob Brady. Well, I'm gonna look

2507
02:20:00,000 --> 02:20:03,720
Speaker 1: them up after we finished our conversation. Oh wait, he

2508
02:20:03,920 --> 02:20:08,840
Speaker 1: had one song, the Long Goodbye, was a hit. Okay,

2509
02:20:08,920 --> 02:20:10,880
Speaker 1: now tell me who recorded it, because this is what

2510
02:20:10,959 --> 02:20:14,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna show my ignorance Brooks and done. Okay, yeah,

2511
02:20:15,040 --> 02:20:18,160
Speaker 1: I vaguely remember that. But since you're talking about lyrics,

2512
02:20:18,280 --> 02:20:20,680
Speaker 1: he had this song on this side called Paradise is

2513
02:20:20,760 --> 02:20:23,680
Speaker 1: Here Now, but just lyrics. I'm gonna play this lyrics.

2514
02:20:24,040 --> 02:20:26,440
Speaker 1: I said, you say you want to live some move

2515
02:20:26,520 --> 02:20:29,440
Speaker 1: out into the fast lane. You say, you need excitement

2516
02:20:29,520 --> 02:20:32,360
Speaker 1: to make you come alive, to place a million miles

2517
02:20:32,440 --> 02:20:35,359
Speaker 1: from the shadows that surround you, I look for attention.

2518
02:20:35,440 --> 02:20:38,920
Speaker 1: You're lost in the future where lovers ask no questions

2519
02:20:38,959 --> 02:20:43,160
Speaker 1: and shadows never fall. Some pilgrim round for paradise, no compromise,

2520
02:20:43,640 --> 02:20:47,120
Speaker 1: But paradise is here and then it goes off to me.

2521
02:20:47,640 --> 02:20:50,080
Speaker 1: And that comes with living, right. I mean, you don't

2522
02:20:50,160 --> 02:20:55,720
Speaker 1: write that when you're in your twenties unless you're extremely

2523
02:20:56,040 --> 02:21:00,600
Speaker 1: prolific and you're kind of beyond your years. There's music

2524
02:21:00,680 --> 02:21:04,280
Speaker 1: to be made, I think. I think for all of

2525
02:21:04,400 --> 02:21:08,240
Speaker 1: us who have been through in the trenches of pop music,

2526
02:21:08,320 --> 02:21:10,960
Speaker 1: I think there's more music to be made outside, as

2527
02:21:11,000 --> 02:21:13,240
Speaker 1: long as we can lose the idea that it has

2528
02:21:13,360 --> 02:21:16,480
Speaker 1: to be hit music. You know they're gonna be people. Well,

2529
02:21:16,520 --> 02:21:19,120
Speaker 1: I think a hit. No, there's a definition of a

2530
02:21:19,200 --> 02:21:21,760
Speaker 1: hit on the radio chart, the X number of millions

2531
02:21:21,800 --> 02:21:24,960
Speaker 1: of streams on Spotify. But there are plenty of songs

2532
02:21:25,480 --> 02:21:28,680
Speaker 1: that are hits because they hate you a certain way,

2533
02:21:29,160 --> 02:21:32,320
Speaker 1: they have a certain effect, irrelevant of the commerciality. You know,

2534
02:21:32,360 --> 02:21:36,600
Speaker 1: I could whip out twenty you know that means so

2535
02:21:36,760 --> 02:21:39,120
Speaker 1: much to me that were never charted, but it's like

2536
02:21:39,640 --> 02:21:42,800
Speaker 1: unbelievable just to listen to those songs, which of course

2537
02:21:42,920 --> 02:21:45,040
Speaker 1: brings me to Jason Isbell. What do you think of

2538
02:21:45,160 --> 02:21:47,880
Speaker 1: Jason Isbell? Uh, I've seen him play live. I don't

2539
02:21:47,920 --> 02:21:51,520
Speaker 1: know a lot of his recorded music, but when I

2540
02:21:51,520 --> 02:21:53,240
Speaker 1: saw him play live it was I think a year

2541
02:21:53,280 --> 02:21:55,720
Speaker 1: and a half ago, it was it was stunning. I mean,

2542
02:21:55,760 --> 02:21:58,600
Speaker 1: it's just he doesn't seem to be constrained by what

2543
02:21:59,120 --> 02:22:01,960
Speaker 1: this whole idium of pop music. He just this is

2544
02:22:02,080 --> 02:22:04,440
Speaker 1: kind of weird. I think things are are headed because

2545
02:22:04,520 --> 02:22:07,680
Speaker 1: of of of streaming. It's like people just they're gonna

2546
02:22:07,680 --> 02:22:10,120
Speaker 1: do what they're gonna do, and people are gonna find them.

2547
02:22:10,120 --> 02:22:12,520
Speaker 1: They're gonna find their audience or audience because they find them,

2548
02:22:12,840 --> 02:22:14,640
Speaker 1: and we we don't. We're not gonna have to bother

2549
02:22:14,720 --> 02:22:18,680
Speaker 1: as much with this idea of hit music anymore, at

2550
02:22:18,760 --> 02:22:21,240
Speaker 1: least I hope. So it has been fantastic, Dan. I

2551
02:22:21,360 --> 02:22:23,320
Speaker 1: want to thank you for taking so much time with me.

2552
02:22:23,800 --> 02:22:28,080
Speaker 1: I'm I'm honored. And uh, as I said, you wrote

2553
02:22:28,120 --> 02:22:30,680
Speaker 1: a very kind piece about me, and and and uh

2554
02:22:31,240 --> 02:22:33,119
Speaker 1: it was it was nice because a lot of friends

2555
02:22:33,200 --> 02:22:35,200
Speaker 1: called me that I hadn't heard it from in a

2556
02:22:35,320 --> 02:22:37,320
Speaker 1: long time. So I'm honored to be a part of it,

2557
02:22:37,400 --> 02:22:40,520
Speaker 1: and and and and thank you for for what you

2558
02:22:40,640 --> 02:22:44,760
Speaker 1: do from a historian standpoint, and just your involvement. I mean,

2559
02:22:45,040 --> 02:22:49,760
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, the rule has changed too, hasn't boy,

2560
02:22:49,840 --> 02:22:53,160
Speaker 1: hasn't changed. But the great thing about it is, you know,

2561
02:22:53,360 --> 02:22:55,720
Speaker 1: back in the old days, you knew every record on

2562
02:22:55,760 --> 02:22:59,040
Speaker 1: the chart, even if you never heard it. Now nobody

2563
02:22:59,120 --> 02:23:03,560
Speaker 1: can know everything. No, it's like it's just overwhelming. How

2564
02:23:03,640 --> 02:23:05,920
Speaker 1: long are you going to do this? Bob, I'm gonna

2565
02:23:05,959 --> 02:23:11,720
Speaker 1: do this till I die? But what motivates me? I

2566
02:23:11,800 --> 02:23:17,200
Speaker 1: would articulate it in a different fashion, but it's that resonance.

2567
02:23:17,400 --> 02:23:22,920
Speaker 1: It's that thing. And I ser them, you know, seven

2568
02:23:23,000 --> 02:23:25,480
Speaker 1: years older than you are, and so I was there

2569
02:23:25,520 --> 02:23:28,800
Speaker 1: when the Beatles broke, etcetera. There are a lot of records,

2570
02:23:28,879 --> 02:23:31,400
Speaker 1: not only in the sixties, but in the seventies they

2571
02:23:31,480 --> 02:23:36,520
Speaker 1: had so much meaning. The whole musical culture has changed.

2572
02:23:37,240 --> 02:23:40,320
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of elements in streaming TV.

2573
02:23:41,320 --> 02:23:43,440
Speaker 1: I mean, you could start with the sopranos. I can

2574
02:23:43,520 --> 02:23:46,880
Speaker 1: mention shows were they male? Essence of life? Most of

2575
02:23:46,959 --> 02:23:50,480
Speaker 1: them are four in shows. That's what really resonates with me.

2576
02:23:50,640 --> 02:23:54,640
Speaker 1: And I find just like if you go down that

2577
02:23:54,920 --> 02:23:59,080
Speaker 1: rabbit hole, if you stop worrying about giving people what

2578
02:23:59,240 --> 02:24:03,320
Speaker 1: they want, that's what they're most interested in. They're most

2579
02:24:03,680 --> 02:24:08,080
Speaker 1: interested in the personal and seeing what's going on in life.

2580
02:24:08,879 --> 02:24:11,760
Speaker 1: And you know, and a rock stars completely changed from

2581
02:24:11,840 --> 02:24:16,600
Speaker 1: the seventies where it really became iconic. In the seventies,

2582
02:24:16,640 --> 02:24:19,520
Speaker 1: a rock star was as rich as anybody and would

2583
02:24:19,640 --> 02:24:23,720
Speaker 1: say no and can destroy hotel rooms. But today, in

2584
02:24:23,840 --> 02:24:26,440
Speaker 1: the era of billionaires, you can't make that much money

2585
02:24:26,480 --> 02:24:30,040
Speaker 1: in music. All you can do is speak truth to power,

2586
02:24:30,480 --> 02:24:34,080
Speaker 1: and people have forgotten that. I mean, the power of

2587
02:24:34,120 --> 02:24:36,279
Speaker 1: a good song. If you listen to rock music today,

2588
02:24:36,720 --> 02:24:39,440
Speaker 1: the on the active rock, you need a whole lexicon

2589
02:24:39,600 --> 02:24:42,880
Speaker 1: just to figure out how they got there. You know,

2590
02:24:43,120 --> 02:24:46,520
Speaker 1: it's not something that you hear once and just go wow.

2591
02:24:47,400 --> 02:24:50,840
Speaker 1: So I think, and it's you know. Another thing is

2592
02:24:51,120 --> 02:24:54,160
Speaker 1: this and you references in an oblique way, is the

2593
02:24:54,240 --> 02:25:00,240
Speaker 1: political situation. This is driving our culture. The interesting thing

2594
02:25:00,440 --> 02:25:03,520
Speaker 1: is when I talked to the titans of the live

2595
02:25:03,640 --> 02:25:07,560
Speaker 1: business for years, they just want to talk politics. Yeah,

2596
02:25:07,640 --> 02:25:09,880
Speaker 1: we can talk about the tour or whatever, because there's

2597
02:25:10,000 --> 02:25:14,080
Speaker 1: so much at stake. Even in Nashville, where they redid

2598
02:25:14,160 --> 02:25:19,600
Speaker 1: you know, jerrymandered, etcetera. It's the future hangs in the balance.

2599
02:25:19,680 --> 02:25:23,680
Speaker 1: And now we have Ukraine. Everyone thought Russia would run

2600
02:25:23,760 --> 02:25:26,600
Speaker 1: over them in a minute. So the key is and

2601
02:25:26,720 --> 02:25:29,120
Speaker 1: it's you. That's why I love so much what you said.

2602
02:25:29,680 --> 02:25:35,879
Speaker 1: You can't keep repeating yourself. That's death. You know, as

2603
02:25:35,920 --> 02:25:37,880
Speaker 1: you say, you know what you bring to the party,

2604
02:25:38,120 --> 02:25:40,200
Speaker 1: and there's always a need for that, because only you

2605
02:25:40,360 --> 02:25:43,879
Speaker 1: can deliver yourself. But I know some of these trade papers,

2606
02:25:43,920 --> 02:25:47,240
Speaker 1: these guys in the seventies, the names and the faces changed,

2607
02:25:47,280 --> 02:25:51,680
Speaker 1: they're still doing it. It's like, holy fuck. You know,

2608
02:25:51,879 --> 02:25:54,360
Speaker 1: it's like, there's got to be more to life. Well

2609
02:25:54,400 --> 02:25:58,040
Speaker 1: there is there, there isn't and and and what you

2610
02:25:58,120 --> 02:26:02,880
Speaker 1: said also about some of this streaming via television now right,

2611
02:26:02,959 --> 02:26:06,440
Speaker 1: and people have you gotta give you gotta give people

2612
02:26:06,520 --> 02:26:09,200
Speaker 1: more credit. People have more of an attention span, they're

2613
02:26:09,240 --> 02:26:12,320
Speaker 1: smarter than we give people. But when we give them credit,

2614
02:26:12,520 --> 02:26:15,520
Speaker 1: right an audience, I couldn't I have said, well, I

2615
02:26:15,640 --> 02:26:17,480
Speaker 1: say it in a different way. People just have an

2616
02:26:17,520 --> 02:26:20,880
Speaker 1: incredible ship detector. They go no, no, no, and then

2617
02:26:20,920 --> 02:26:24,280
Speaker 1: they'll watch the streaming show for ten hours. Yeah, and

2618
02:26:24,400 --> 02:26:26,360
Speaker 1: that's and and those are the values I think. I

2619
02:26:26,440 --> 02:26:30,440
Speaker 1: think we're just starting to you can become confronted with

2620
02:26:30,560 --> 02:26:33,840
Speaker 1: again in music. It's like, no, it's not an algorithm.

2621
02:26:34,120 --> 02:26:37,480
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. You've you've got there is a thing called

2622
02:26:37,520 --> 02:26:39,480
Speaker 1: soul and you've got to access that and you've got

2623
02:26:39,600 --> 02:26:42,320
Speaker 1: to listen for it. And it's it's precious and you

2624
02:26:42,440 --> 02:26:45,320
Speaker 1: can stomp the ever living life out of it if

2625
02:26:45,600 --> 02:26:51,520
Speaker 1: you are not, if you're not humble enough to sit

2626
02:26:51,600 --> 02:26:53,680
Speaker 1: and wait for it, you know, and and and for me,

2627
02:26:54,000 --> 02:26:55,840
Speaker 1: you know, it's my small world, but it's in a

2628
02:26:55,959 --> 02:26:59,800
Speaker 1: recording studio, but it does exist. And well when you

2629
02:27:00,040 --> 02:27:03,080
Speaker 1: I witnessed it today. I witnessed it in a beautiful way.

2630
02:27:03,280 --> 02:27:06,240
Speaker 1: It was awesome. This thing came to life out of nowhere.

2631
02:27:06,520 --> 02:27:09,720
Speaker 1: We had no preprogramming, there was nothing. There was not

2632
02:27:09,800 --> 02:27:13,280
Speaker 1: even a demo. There was a guitar work tape, and

2633
02:27:13,440 --> 02:27:16,600
Speaker 1: we just allowed this thing to blossom and and it

2634
02:27:16,720 --> 02:27:18,880
Speaker 1: was it was like it happened. You know. Well, you

2635
02:27:19,000 --> 02:27:21,840
Speaker 1: know how I became aware of your success in the

2636
02:27:21,959 --> 02:27:24,640
Speaker 1: country music world. I have a friend who's in country

2637
02:27:24,760 --> 02:27:29,200
Speaker 1: music agent and his his recommendations are phenomenal. And this

2638
02:27:29,320 --> 02:27:33,080
Speaker 1: goes back to I guess two thousand seven he sent

2639
02:27:33,160 --> 02:27:37,440
Speaker 1: me Keith Urban Stupid Boy. Woh yeah, and holy fuck.

2640
02:27:37,680 --> 02:27:39,800
Speaker 1: You know, people say, oh, country music said, listen to

2641
02:27:39,920 --> 02:27:42,800
Speaker 1: this track. This is better than any of the rock

2642
02:27:42,879 --> 02:27:45,680
Speaker 1: and roll I mean, forget that. It's an amazing guitar solo.

2643
02:27:45,920 --> 02:27:48,920
Speaker 1: It's soulful. Not to mention the song itself, it's so great.

2644
02:27:49,640 --> 02:27:52,400
Speaker 1: Sarah Buxton wrote that, by the way, I sat next

2645
02:27:52,480 --> 02:27:55,920
Speaker 1: to her at Joe Walsh's seventy fifth birthday party. I

2646
02:27:56,000 --> 02:27:58,879
Speaker 1: bet you her. I bet you Tom Bukavit, her husband then,

2647
02:27:59,080 --> 02:28:02,080
Speaker 1: was playing guitar for Joe wash. Well, he was there.

2648
02:28:02,520 --> 02:28:04,760
Speaker 1: Joe played for a little while. You know, some of

2649
02:28:04,840 --> 02:28:07,800
Speaker 1: the regulars that he's played with. I don't remember. We

2650
02:28:07,879 --> 02:28:10,400
Speaker 1: were sitting at the same table. I can't remember who played,

2651
02:28:10,879 --> 02:28:13,080
Speaker 1: but yes, she was. You know. It's funny because such

2652
02:28:13,120 --> 02:28:16,200
Speaker 1: a heavy, serious song and she's such a breezy woman.

2653
02:28:16,400 --> 02:28:19,680
Speaker 1: It's kind of funny. Yeah, she's She's from a different era,

2654
02:28:21,680 --> 02:28:27,000
Speaker 1: but it's listen. The songwriters got fucked in streaming. There's

2655
02:28:27,080 --> 02:28:30,200
Speaker 1: no doubt about that. They got the smaller piece of

2656
02:28:30,440 --> 02:28:35,160
Speaker 1: pie than they deserve, and I hope they can get more. However,

2657
02:28:35,600 --> 02:28:39,680
Speaker 1: you cannot hold back the future. Yes, you used to

2658
02:28:39,720 --> 02:28:42,280
Speaker 1: have one track on a CD. It's old. Millions of

2659
02:28:42,320 --> 02:28:45,360
Speaker 1: cops you got paid. Those days are through. They're just through.

2660
02:28:46,560 --> 02:28:51,560
Speaker 1: And so until you recognize where we are, you're lost.

2661
02:28:51,760 --> 02:28:54,199
Speaker 1: We we can't we can bring elements of the past

2662
02:28:54,520 --> 02:28:57,480
Speaker 1: into the future. But you know, I hear from these

2663
02:28:57,520 --> 02:29:00,560
Speaker 1: people all day long. You know, streaming is not paying enough.

2664
02:29:00,879 --> 02:29:02,480
Speaker 1: Most of these people, they won't even be able to

2665
02:29:02,640 --> 02:29:06,000
Speaker 1: make records in the old days. No, and you know what,

2666
02:29:07,240 --> 02:29:09,800
Speaker 1: you know again, we have our perspective, We've been through

2667
02:29:09,879 --> 02:29:12,600
Speaker 1: it right, and we have our expectations. You tell that

2668
02:29:12,680 --> 02:29:14,720
Speaker 1: to an eighteen year old kid. Man, they don't care,

2669
02:29:14,920 --> 02:29:16,240
Speaker 1: is they? You know what they You know what I

2670
02:29:16,320 --> 02:29:18,600
Speaker 1: want to do. When I was eighteen, I wanted to

2671
02:29:18,680 --> 02:29:22,400
Speaker 1: be able to make my rent so I could play

2672
02:29:22,520 --> 02:29:25,520
Speaker 1: music the next day. That was the value and that's

2673
02:29:25,560 --> 02:29:27,520
Speaker 1: still what it's all about. Man, if you can make

2674
02:29:27,600 --> 02:29:30,119
Speaker 1: your rent, if you can play a show that night.

2675
02:29:30,280 --> 02:29:32,760
Speaker 1: For me, it was playing a session, a demo session.

2676
02:29:33,480 --> 02:29:37,119
Speaker 1: That's it. The rest of it is, whatever your life,

2677
02:29:37,680 --> 02:29:40,200
Speaker 1: it's probably good. The thing got toppled for a while

2678
02:29:40,240 --> 02:29:43,720
Speaker 1: because it needs to reinvent itself, you know. And you

2679
02:29:43,800 --> 02:29:45,320
Speaker 1: can say well, it's easy for you to say because

2680
02:29:45,360 --> 02:29:47,240
Speaker 1: you lived through some fat times. Yeah I did. But

2681
02:29:47,840 --> 02:29:50,040
Speaker 1: but that's not why I got involved in it. That

2682
02:29:50,360 --> 02:29:53,680
Speaker 1: never was the reason. No, not at all, not at all.

2683
02:29:54,040 --> 02:29:57,000
Speaker 1: But the interesting thing is, for the last twenty years,

2684
02:29:57,520 --> 02:29:59,200
Speaker 1: used to be every three to seven years we got

2685
02:29:59,240 --> 02:30:02,680
Speaker 1: a whole new sound. Yeah, and that hasn't happened now.

2686
02:30:02,680 --> 02:30:06,120
Speaker 1: A lot of other things, you know, you can mention,

2687
02:30:06,320 --> 02:30:08,080
Speaker 1: you can go to the coast and you can mention

2688
02:30:08,160 --> 02:30:10,879
Speaker 1: the number one country hit records, and then a lot

2689
02:30:10,920 --> 02:30:13,560
Speaker 1: of people have no idea who these acts are. Same thing,

2690
02:30:14,280 --> 02:30:16,240
Speaker 1: you know, some of these records that are number one

2691
02:30:16,280 --> 02:30:19,760
Speaker 1: on the pop charts the weekend. You can evade things now.

2692
02:30:20,320 --> 02:30:24,960
Speaker 1: Used to be you couldn't avoid hearing certain sounds, and

2693
02:30:25,040 --> 02:30:29,119
Speaker 1: there was a cohesiveness. So maybe it's more of an understand.

2694
02:30:29,160 --> 02:30:32,360
Speaker 1: You know, the major labels you said earlier are so

2695
02:30:32,720 --> 02:30:36,440
Speaker 1: focused on hit singles, they're conceding the rest of the

2696
02:30:36,600 --> 02:30:40,160
Speaker 1: universe to other people. Let's say, that's an interesting thing.

2697
02:30:40,200 --> 02:30:42,200
Speaker 1: Not to and not to be self serving this thing,

2698
02:30:42,280 --> 02:30:45,280
Speaker 1: but but I just finishes working with Kane Brown and

2699
02:30:45,840 --> 02:30:49,120
Speaker 1: and I do a lot of his production. I don't

2700
02:30:49,160 --> 02:30:50,520
Speaker 1: do all of it because He does a lot of

2701
02:30:50,560 --> 02:30:54,280
Speaker 1: collaborative collaborations with with different hip hop artists and I

2702
02:30:54,360 --> 02:30:57,200
Speaker 1: don't do that, you know, And and it's it's it's

2703
02:30:57,240 --> 02:30:59,040
Speaker 1: funny because he's you know, he's he's a new breed

2704
02:30:59,080 --> 02:31:02,640
Speaker 1: of artist. You know, he's he has his roots. He

2705
02:31:02,800 --> 02:31:05,240
Speaker 1: grew up in the South and his he was raised

2706
02:31:05,280 --> 02:31:09,000
Speaker 1: by his grandfather who turned him onto uh to uh

2707
02:31:09,400 --> 02:31:12,400
Speaker 1: Rainy Travis Records. When he's a kid, right, He's from

2708
02:31:12,800 --> 02:31:15,440
Speaker 1: a mixed race family. His grand his granddad was white.

2709
02:31:15,920 --> 02:31:18,800
Speaker 1: You know, here's this young kid, by racial kid, growing

2710
02:31:18,879 --> 02:31:21,960
Speaker 1: up in the South under some pretty tough conditions, just

2711
02:31:22,080 --> 02:31:25,199
Speaker 1: trying to figure it out. Thankfully channeled it through music.

2712
02:31:25,560 --> 02:31:27,840
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, the first time I met him,

2713
02:31:27,879 --> 02:31:30,200
Speaker 1: he was here at my studio playing me songs, and

2714
02:31:30,280 --> 02:31:32,760
Speaker 1: he played me a song they just ripped my heart

2715
02:31:32,800 --> 02:31:36,920
Speaker 1: out called learning. He grew up with a consciousness towards

2716
02:31:37,000 --> 02:31:39,840
Speaker 1: country music, and he knows so much about country music.

2717
02:31:40,360 --> 02:31:44,840
Speaker 1: But then the hip hop role loves this guy because

2718
02:31:44,879 --> 02:31:47,440
Speaker 1: he's a he's he's got a really cool voice, and

2719
02:31:48,120 --> 02:31:52,360
Speaker 1: he's a country artist, but he's not constrained by being

2720
02:31:52,440 --> 02:31:55,520
Speaker 1: a country artist. This guy is playing to every kind

2721
02:31:55,560 --> 02:31:58,960
Speaker 1: of audience in the world, and it's it's I love

2722
02:31:59,040 --> 02:32:01,760
Speaker 1: that because it's you know, the the idea that you

2723
02:32:01,879 --> 02:32:08,520
Speaker 1: can you can label one individual by by a music

2724
02:32:08,680 --> 02:32:11,760
Speaker 1: genre is is to me as a joke. He just

2725
02:32:11,920 --> 02:32:14,240
Speaker 1: loves music. He sings what the hell he wants to sing,

2726
02:32:14,840 --> 02:32:17,520
Speaker 1: and they'll sing a song he just he We just

2727
02:32:17,640 --> 02:32:21,080
Speaker 1: did a song the other day called Pop's Last Name, right,

2728
02:32:21,280 --> 02:32:25,120
Speaker 1: he's singing about his deceased grandfather. He absolutely loves that.

2729
02:32:25,440 --> 02:32:29,240
Speaker 1: That raised him, right, and then what's his latest pop

2730
02:32:29,280 --> 02:32:31,760
Speaker 1: I can't remember the latest pop single that he had,

2731
02:32:31,920 --> 02:32:36,040
Speaker 1: humongous pop single, you know. It's like, and he's just

2732
02:32:36,120 --> 02:32:38,360
Speaker 1: going to help with it all. I'm just gonna put

2733
02:32:38,400 --> 02:32:40,920
Speaker 1: out songs. I'm gonna drop tracks, right, And of course

2734
02:32:41,000 --> 02:32:44,280
Speaker 1: everybody's running after him. You can't do that, well, yeah

2735
02:32:44,360 --> 02:32:47,600
Speaker 1: you can. You know. I think that's phenomenal, you know,

2736
02:32:47,800 --> 02:32:49,360
Speaker 1: and we just all trying to keep up with him

2737
02:32:49,400 --> 02:32:52,440
Speaker 1: because he's you know, he's doing what he does. That's

2738
02:32:52,480 --> 02:32:55,800
Speaker 1: the future right there. It's it's nobody owns nobody owns

2739
02:32:55,840 --> 02:32:59,280
Speaker 1: this stuff, you know, it's it's it's owned by the future. Well,

2740
02:32:59,400 --> 02:33:01,640
Speaker 1: on some little all the baby boomers have to die

2741
02:33:02,600 --> 02:33:05,120
Speaker 1: because the ethos of the younger people is just totally.

2742
02:33:05,240 --> 02:33:08,080
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a crooked business. Younger people don't

2743
02:33:08,160 --> 02:33:10,400
Speaker 1: view it that way. They don't mind making money, but

2744
02:33:10,480 --> 02:33:12,720
Speaker 1: they say, okay, it's ones and zeros, this is what

2745
02:33:12,840 --> 02:33:17,200
Speaker 1: I mowed whatever. And you know, all this focus that

2746
02:33:17,400 --> 02:33:20,520
Speaker 1: we have is not is across the board. It's not

2747
02:33:20,600 --> 02:33:24,520
Speaker 1: only music, etcetera. At some point you have to see it.

2748
02:33:25,040 --> 02:33:27,160
Speaker 1: They're stealing the world's We don't really have to see

2749
02:33:27,160 --> 02:33:29,120
Speaker 1: it because there's a lot of good stuff come out.

2750
02:33:29,120 --> 02:33:31,920
Speaker 1: And you talk about Florida Georgia Line. You know, that's

2751
02:33:31,920 --> 02:33:35,040
Speaker 1: a band that recently broke up and has gotten a

2752
02:33:35,080 --> 02:33:37,560
Speaker 1: lot of ship. But they injected a lot of hip

2753
02:33:37,600 --> 02:33:42,040
Speaker 1: hop into country and and it was good for everybody,

2754
02:33:42,320 --> 02:33:44,959
Speaker 1: no joke. And it's and you know that's these kids

2755
02:33:45,040 --> 02:33:48,000
Speaker 1: growing up playing country music. Right, you go to these

2756
02:33:48,040 --> 02:33:51,200
Speaker 1: country bars and it's hip hop music between sets. Well,

2757
02:33:51,280 --> 02:33:53,360
Speaker 1: that's because that's what they're growing up on. And and

2758
02:33:53,680 --> 02:33:57,080
Speaker 1: they're not interested in just being one thing. And I

2759
02:33:57,240 --> 02:34:01,880
Speaker 1: think that's phenomenal. I mean, to me, that's music is

2760
02:34:01,920 --> 02:34:06,320
Speaker 1: not supposed to be one language. It's supposed to encompass

2761
02:34:06,360 --> 02:34:09,920
Speaker 1: all languages. Right, you have your dialect he's but I

2762
02:34:09,959 --> 02:34:12,000
Speaker 1: don't want to know how they speak in another country.

2763
02:34:12,360 --> 02:34:14,480
Speaker 1: That's the beauty of all this stuff. Nobody owns it.

2764
02:34:15,440 --> 02:34:17,280
Speaker 1: Let the thing out of the bag. And as a

2765
02:34:17,280 --> 02:34:19,040
Speaker 1: matter of fact, we're not letting ship out of the bag.

2766
02:34:19,080 --> 02:34:21,560
Speaker 1: It's it's out of the bag, right, We're just hanging

2767
02:34:21,600 --> 02:34:23,920
Speaker 1: on for dear life. Well, that's one thing we've learned.

2768
02:34:24,280 --> 02:34:26,760
Speaker 1: Nobody is in control. I mean, this is going up.

2769
02:34:27,160 --> 02:34:30,480
Speaker 1: But covid Us, I thought that the world was the

2770
02:34:30,520 --> 02:34:32,640
Speaker 1: country was kind of run by a few people, and

2771
02:34:32,680 --> 02:34:35,960
Speaker 1: it was all kind of worries. Now whatsoever. The fact

2772
02:34:36,040 --> 02:34:38,680
Speaker 1: that the country works at all, any country, is mind

2773
02:34:38,680 --> 02:34:42,240
Speaker 1: blowing to me. It's a million people with a million

2774
02:34:42,400 --> 02:34:45,840
Speaker 1: different thoughts, never mind, you know, right or wrong. It's

2775
02:34:45,959 --> 02:34:50,320
Speaker 1: just astounding. I mean, this is a you know, you go.

2776
02:34:50,480 --> 02:34:53,280
Speaker 1: You talked about the attention span. The other thing that

2777
02:34:53,440 --> 02:34:56,920
Speaker 1: makes me crazy is people bitching about the phone. How

2778
02:34:57,160 --> 02:35:00,120
Speaker 1: great is the phone? You can be in contact with

2779
02:35:00,280 --> 02:35:03,440
Speaker 1: people twenty four seven. You can go down the rabbit

2780
02:35:03,480 --> 02:35:06,480
Speaker 1: hole of the stuff that you're interested in. I mean

2781
02:35:07,040 --> 02:35:09,800
Speaker 1: I could never be in contact with this many people.

2782
02:35:09,920 --> 02:35:12,000
Speaker 1: I couldn't. I mean I never even talked on the phone,

2783
02:35:12,200 --> 02:35:14,640
Speaker 1: so I'm not saying that whatever, but to have that

2784
02:35:14,800 --> 02:35:17,920
Speaker 1: in your hand, and it's a lot more interesting than

2785
02:35:17,959 --> 02:35:19,879
Speaker 1: a lot of ship that's going around a lot of time.

2786
02:35:19,959 --> 02:35:24,120
Speaker 1: That's why people on their phone. The only probably you

2787
02:35:24,360 --> 02:35:26,520
Speaker 1: and I have is we were We were in the

2788
02:35:26,600 --> 02:35:29,640
Speaker 1: same adult class, right and we can talk forever. So

2789
02:35:30,800 --> 02:35:34,480
Speaker 1: for me, this is wonderful because I melled what I

2790
02:35:34,560 --> 02:35:38,520
Speaker 1: already know with a deep dive into your role to country.

2791
02:35:38,520 --> 02:35:39,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I certainly know a lot of people who

2792
02:35:40,000 --> 02:35:45,760
Speaker 1: work in country, but your perspective the best parts where

2793
02:35:46,200 --> 02:35:50,040
Speaker 1: how you do it. You know, the collaboration. I have

2794
02:35:50,120 --> 02:35:53,320
Speaker 1: a friend who was ran publishing a candidate for one time.

2795
02:35:53,320 --> 02:35:57,320
Speaker 1: I mean, big believer in collaboration. And what do you

2796
02:35:57,400 --> 02:36:00,560
Speaker 1: think of the Beatles documentary? You watch it now? Just

2797
02:36:01,240 --> 02:36:03,960
Speaker 1: it's it's what you know intuitively in your heart. And

2798
02:36:04,120 --> 02:36:09,440
Speaker 1: to see your heroes doing that thing, that almost painful

2799
02:36:09,520 --> 02:36:13,320
Speaker 1: family thing was great. The fact that so much of

2800
02:36:13,400 --> 02:36:16,879
Speaker 1: it was spontaneous and not premeditated just blew my mind

2801
02:36:17,280 --> 02:36:21,040
Speaker 1: because the records are so iconic. The fact that they said,

2802
02:36:21,080 --> 02:36:23,200
Speaker 1: well we got a couple of weeks, we're doing something,

2803
02:36:23,800 --> 02:36:27,720
Speaker 1: just unbelievable. Collaboration, is it? That's really what it is.

2804
02:36:27,879 --> 02:36:31,440
Speaker 1: I mean, you can't underestimate what that is worth. I

2805
02:36:31,520 --> 02:36:33,280
Speaker 1: mean for the good and the bad. But it's it's

2806
02:36:33,600 --> 02:36:37,280
Speaker 1: it's what I really seriously think. Everybody has about three

2807
02:36:37,320 --> 02:36:39,880
Speaker 1: good ideas. That's it. Now, there are some people who

2808
02:36:39,959 --> 02:36:43,520
Speaker 1: are extraordinarily gifted above the rest of us, and and

2809
02:36:43,680 --> 02:36:45,320
Speaker 1: take them out of the equation. But the restaurant, we've

2810
02:36:45,320 --> 02:36:48,879
Speaker 1: got three or four good ideas. But exponentially, you put

2811
02:36:48,959 --> 02:36:51,320
Speaker 1: that in the room with with with four people who

2812
02:36:51,600 --> 02:36:53,760
Speaker 1: who have gotten three or four ideas from somebody else,

2813
02:36:53,840 --> 02:36:55,879
Speaker 1: and then then the world. You have the world at

2814
02:36:55,920 --> 02:36:58,560
Speaker 1: that point. And that's that's what I would get. Get

2815
02:36:58,600 --> 02:37:00,040
Speaker 1: a chance to winns I and like I said it,

2816
02:37:00,120 --> 02:37:02,040
Speaker 1: I thought today so it was really nice. Well, you

2817
02:37:02,120 --> 02:37:04,720
Speaker 1: could expand that to many other elements of our universe,

2818
02:37:04,800 --> 02:37:08,959
Speaker 1: even though we're not. But in any event, until next time,

2819
02:37:09,240 --> 02:37:10,640
Speaker 1: this is Bob West says