Speaker 1: Yeah. My name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production
Speaker 1: of the bear Grease podcast called The bear Grease Render,
Speaker 1: where we render down, dive deeper, and looked behind the
Speaker 1: scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f
Speaker 1: HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear
Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. Gary,
Speaker 1: is a sasquatch on your head? Is? Where'd you get
Speaker 1: that hat? I'm not telling man, my people. I got
Speaker 1: it from my That's a nice sasquatch hat. Welcome to
Speaker 1: the Beargrease Render. Man, have we ever have we ever
Speaker 1: got a show for you today? I've got I'll do
Speaker 1: introductions as I usually do. Mr Brant reads, how are
Speaker 1: you doing? I'm doing good. Good to see you. As
Speaker 1: my grandfather would say, I'm good or and snuff and
Speaker 1: I ain't near as dusty to your left. Mr lukeomas back.
Speaker 1: Hey there, welcome back, Miss Nukeleliar. I'm good to be here.
Speaker 1: I have no clever statement last time that I would
Speaker 1: like to recant. Yeah, I said, definitely, wold like to rephrase.
Speaker 1: I said you were supposed to be at the last
Speaker 1: Bargrease Render, but she was quote easily what that was?
Speaker 1: That was a misstep on my part, definitely, but it's
Speaker 1: it's great to have you back. Thank you, thank you
Speaker 1: for making the time to come to the render to
Speaker 1: your left. Josh Landbridge stillmaker acquired man. Hey, you're just
Speaker 1: killing it on being the dumb guy at the front
Speaker 1: of the that doesn't know what we're talking about. I
Speaker 1: need someone. What I'm doing when I when I picked
Speaker 1: these interviews is I'm trying to pick like a representative
Speaker 1: person for like the masses. So I'm taking an average
Speaker 1: of all the smartest people I know, and then the
Speaker 1: not that the land Bridge imagine two continents, and then
Speaker 1: but then Josh he also so he doesn't know what
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about, but he brings in some charm
Speaker 1: and some humor every both times. Did he not thank you? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So that was great. What was sad though, was I
Speaker 1: recorded a couple I recorded a couple other of those
Speaker 1: just kind of impromptu. You know, I'm just like walking
Speaker 1: up to people like at my kids school that I
Speaker 1: know and and and so I don't have to explain
Speaker 1: to him why I'm doing this. I'm just like putting
Speaker 1: a microphone on their face, and so I did this
Speaker 1: twice and one of the ladies just knocked it out
Speaker 1: of the park. I was like, do you know what
Speaker 1: the Comering Gap is? And she was like, oh, yes,
Speaker 1: of course. This is where Daniel Boone came through Key
Speaker 1: Key to the Western United States and the expansion. I
Speaker 1: was like, wow, cool. Do you know about when white
Speaker 1: Europeans went through the gap? And she was like, m
Speaker 1: Jamestown was found in the sixteen sixties. I'm gonna say
Speaker 1: sixteen seventies. And I was like, holy smoke, the first
Speaker 1: documented white man went through the Cumberland Gap in sixteen
Speaker 1: seventy four. And then he got my son on there
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh yeah, yeah. So anyway, Josh's uh Josh,
Speaker 1: is that guys and I are in a class all
Speaker 1: our own solidly And what happened to her interview? Oh yeah, okay, listen,
Speaker 1: I I'm highly nickel with I t gear, computers, all
Speaker 1: these sort of things. Not true, Not true. That was
Speaker 1: a misstatement. I had my my my earbuds in in
Speaker 1: the truck because my truck the radio went out. Okay,
Speaker 1: so I was listening to earbuds in the truck. They're
Speaker 1: on bluetooth. I see this person I want to interview
Speaker 1: in her car. I jump out of the truck, knock
Speaker 1: on the window, do this great interview where she just
Speaker 1: knocks it out of the park. You know, her history
Speaker 1: professor from high school was probably crying and then um
Speaker 1: and I'm I tell her. I'm like, man, that was
Speaker 1: the best one of these I've ever done. You did great.
Speaker 1: I get back in the car and basically listened to
Speaker 1: the recording because I did it on my phone, which
Speaker 1: I rarely do, but I did. And it was picking
Speaker 1: up my bluetooth of my boys in my truck being
Speaker 1: idiots exactly. So I had to. I had the all
Speaker 1: this lady would be like, remember that home run interview?
Speaker 1: Did interview you did? Sorry? It didn't count for anything.
Speaker 1: So that's what I had to go find. Josh. To
Speaker 1: Josh's left, annual Route Professor, Dr Daniel give me all
Speaker 1: the respect possible. Dan has a spot on the on
Speaker 1: the Real Burgery's podcast coming up here, talk about just
Speaker 1: another zan on the podcast, as long as you will
Speaker 1: get some fresh meat on this thing. And then to
Speaker 1: Dan's left, coming back in hot wherever he's been, Gary
Speaker 1: Newcome where you been? Man? Well, you know what, I
Speaker 1: wanted to give you guys a shot at it on
Speaker 1: your own, and uh, you came up short. Came up short,
Speaker 1: so you needed to bring back in kind of the
Speaker 1: a little bit of a little little daddy attitude, keep
Speaker 1: you guys in line. There you go. Well, it's great
Speaker 1: to have you. I'll tell you. I invited my mother
Speaker 1: to be on this render and she turned down. So Juju.
Speaker 1: My mother's name is Judy, we call her Juju. She's
Speaker 1: been on the Burgar's podcast, so she's qualified to be here.
Speaker 1: The other day, she comes up to me and she says, Clay,
Speaker 1: and she kind of looks at me with those momay's
Speaker 1: and she said, now, I'm gonna tell you something. And
Speaker 1: you know you're a grown man. You don't have to
Speaker 1: do it, but when people give you feedback on your podcast,
Speaker 1: you need to treat them nice. Juju was easily replaced.
Speaker 1: She said, I just said I was listening. I was
Speaker 1: listening to that render when you said that those boys
Speaker 1: told you that y'all didn't need to talk over each other,
Speaker 1: and then you said you all laughed and you said,
Speaker 1: keep talking over each other. Anyway. She was like, Clay,
Speaker 1: you need to pay attention. So did she say anything
Speaker 1: about the treatment of Valley. That's where I thought that. No.
Speaker 1: I I did speak to Alex this week, though. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was a gamble to me whether he was gonna
Speaker 1: be upset with me or we're gonna be like best friends.
Speaker 1: Turns out he just came in and was like, you know,
Speaker 1: just we just had a normal little chat, and I
Speaker 1: just said, hey, thanks for being the whistleblower, Alex. It's
Speaker 1: just really cool. Yet stand with Alex, to stand with Alex. Okay,
Speaker 1: speaking of this, Alex, I forgot about this just happened,
Speaker 1: so it's not in my in my render notes here,
Speaker 1: I Okay, I haven't listened to The Meat Eater camp
Speaker 1: Fire Stories yet. I started it because because I'm saving
Speaker 1: it for an eighteen hour road trip that I'm going
Speaker 1: on by myself very soon. Okay, So that's it's not
Speaker 1: like lack of interest. Why I haven't listened to The
Speaker 1: Meat Eater camp Fire Stories, an audible book new Time's
Speaker 1: best selling. Okay, so that's what the scandal was about
Speaker 1: last time. If you remember that I recounted a story.
Speaker 1: How can we forget that I someone had told me
Speaker 1: and then I recounted it, and then people were like,
Speaker 1: oh man, it was way off. Well, I have a
Speaker 1: guy write me today and say, Clay, I heard your
Speaker 1: version of the story and the version of the campfire
Speaker 1: meter story, and then it wasn't that much different. And
Speaker 1: so I'm like, maybe we've been blowing the whistle that
Speaker 1: didn't need to be blown. I guess we'll find out
Speaker 1: because I'm about I'm I'm a couple of hours into.
Speaker 1: Christie and I had to go to Tulsa this weekend
Speaker 1: and we turned it on and listened to it. Men,
Speaker 1: it's really good. This guy sent you got some amazing
Speaker 1: stories in there. He sent you mess His name, I
Speaker 1: guess was Brave crewcom was it? But yeah, yeah, And
Speaker 1: I was like, as a matter of fact, I think
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hunt that guy down and send him my
Speaker 1: hat Beaver Beaver felt out. Okay, Um, so just for
Speaker 1: if anybody's new to the Render, Okay, the the barg
Speaker 1: Rease podcast, our documentary style podcast is so you know,
Speaker 1: just polished produce, scripted, which people get scared of that word,
Speaker 1: but the truth is it is very scripted. The burger
Speaker 1: Ease Render is very much unplugged. Okay, that's the idea.
Speaker 1: And so we do housekeeping for the first section of
Speaker 1: the podcast, where we just kind of go through some stuff,
Speaker 1: and then the last, the last section of the podcast,
Speaker 1: we get serious Dana and we we we talked about
Speaker 1: the content of the Last Burgeras podcast. So I wanted
Speaker 1: to I wanted to tell you all. I have had
Speaker 1: no less than let's just say, fifty two hundred. I'm
Speaker 1: losing count of how many people have sent me messages
Speaker 1: about the Sturgil Simpson album. They've been sending to your messages,
Speaker 1: Oh got you every day, every day, and it's it's
Speaker 1: either one or two songs or the whole album. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you gotta listen to it, like, man, I can't listen
Speaker 1: to it again. It's wonderful. Yeah. So this guy, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I didn't know much about Sturgill Simpson, still don't,
Speaker 1: but he made a as I understand it, it's a
Speaker 1: it's uh, what do they call albums where all the
Speaker 1: songs are connected together to kind of tell a story
Speaker 1: musical concept. I don't know, but he he talks a
Speaker 1: lot about mules hounds, and everybody's like, Clay, you're gonna
Speaker 1: love it. And so anyway, it's a cool album. So yeah,
Speaker 1: so no need to alert me to uh to that anymore.
Speaker 1: The first one was really cool. I mean the first
Speaker 1: guy that did was cool. Um, I think listen to
Speaker 1: Jujuy listen. Everybody that sent me a message felt like
Speaker 1: they were the first person. But my response, well because
Speaker 1: I was just like, thanks, man, that's awesome. That's one
Speaker 1: of response. Thanks man. No, no, it was good. It
Speaker 1: was good. Okay, uh covering covering a few things, and
Speaker 1: then I'm gonna give you all a chance to if
Speaker 1: you have any news or anything that you want to update. So.
Speaker 1: I was recently on the Metiator podcast, and this is
Speaker 1: another thing that my inbox has been full of this week.
Speaker 1: I was on Steve Ronella's Meteor podcast. Man, I was,
Speaker 1: I was bear hunting, was Steve Ronella, And somewhere in
Speaker 1: the back country I brought up that I had read
Speaker 1: somewhere I didn't know where, but I had read that
Speaker 1: a way to measure the amount of bear grease and
Speaker 1: an old way from the eighteen hundred seventeen hundreds, A
Speaker 1: way to measure a volume of bear grease that could
Speaker 1: be used as a monetary exchange like money was called
Speaker 1: an eel e L L of bear grease, which was
Speaker 1: the tanned neck height of a deer that was sold
Speaker 1: together and then used as like a you know, like
Speaker 1: a like a a big, big flask that would hold
Speaker 1: bear oil. So I tell him that and he got
Speaker 1: excited about that, as was I, and he was like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: that's cool. You know this old archaic unit of measurement.
Speaker 1: And so we get on the podcast and he's like, hey,
Speaker 1: where did you hear that kind of got called out?
Speaker 1: I listened to it, yeah, and I was like, man,
Speaker 1: I said, I know, I just know for a fact
Speaker 1: I read it in some type of academic reading years
Speaker 1: and years ago, WIA Wikipedia. And I couldn't. I couldn't
Speaker 1: tell him. I said, I don't know. And then Janis
Speaker 1: gets on there and they start looking and I mean
Speaker 1: pretty soon it's like clay, You're just full of it.
Speaker 1: And I didn't have any I didn't have an answer,
Speaker 1: and I actually, I guess I didn't know it was
Speaker 1: coming because I had written an email to one of
Speaker 1: an author that I thought had said it, and he
Speaker 1: was like, nope, I never said that. But I lost
Speaker 1: sleep over this. I'm serious. It bothered me big time.
Speaker 1: I mean, not that they gave me a hard time.
Speaker 1: I mean I deserved that if I couldn't couldn't find
Speaker 1: it um But just like I knew that it was
Speaker 1: somewhere and I couldn't remember. I mean, it's been so
Speaker 1: many years, but I've said it for years as if
Speaker 1: it was just like truth. And that's why I was
Speaker 1: pretty confident in it. Man, the Burgrease world came through
Speaker 1: for me. Apparently there's people that are a lot better
Speaker 1: at researching phrases, and there are some really technical ways
Speaker 1: to search the internets. Is that what you're saying. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean he was just Google searching, which I did too.
Speaker 1: But the first guy and the first guy, this is
Speaker 1: gonna incur people too. You know, I don't know what
Speaker 1: it's gonna ocur. A we're encouraging the people. I feel good, okay.
Speaker 1: The first guy that sent me the screen capture from
Speaker 1: an academic journal that this was in, and it was
Speaker 1: citing the source of a of a of an old
Speaker 1: journal that said an eel of beargrease is a unit
Speaker 1: of measurement that could be used as an exchange. I mean,
Speaker 1: I can, I'll tell you what. I'll pull him and
Speaker 1: read it I was so excited I sent him a
Speaker 1: beargrease hat. But within minutes, let's say ours like tons
Speaker 1: of people from all over the country started sending me
Speaker 1: the documentation documentation, So anyway, I sent it to. I
Speaker 1: sent it to, I sent it to the to the
Speaker 1: higher ups, let them know. UM. So no, I crushed
Speaker 1: the send button on that one. Okay, here it is
Speaker 1: so it says a black bear was a valuable commodity
Speaker 1: to early settlers of Arkansas. It was. It was. It
Speaker 1: was in UM a thesis project done by University of
Speaker 1: Arkansas student about Arkansas black bears. So I probably studied
Speaker 1: this in two thousand three and four when I was
Speaker 1: supposed to be studying what I was against. You know,
Speaker 1: they're to study in college, but didn't. UM black bear
Speaker 1: was a valuable commodity to early settlers of Arkansas. The
Speaker 1: price for bear skins at Arkansas Post in eighteen oh
Speaker 1: six range from one to two dollars each. Bear oil
Speaker 1: sold for one dollar per gallon in eighteen thirty four.
Speaker 1: In earth In in the early eighteen eighties, and eel
Speaker 1: of bear grease e L L L l L and
Speaker 1: L of bear grease formed from the hide of the
Speaker 1: head and neck of a deer was a standard medium
Speaker 1: of exchange. A man's status as a provider was judged
Speaker 1: by the number of eels of bear grease that stood
Speaker 1: by the fireplace. Bear meats sold for ten dollars per
Speaker 1: hundred pounds. That is the creed of this podcast. We're
Speaker 1: gonna have it stamped into bronze and make a plaque
Speaker 1: like a very heavy place. Is this your tombstone? Could
Speaker 1: be used for that later. I like killing multiple birds
Speaker 1: with one stone. That's good stuff right there. It came from.
Speaker 1: Somebody's gonna ask me where it came, was the wording
Speaker 1: the measure of a man. A man's status as a
Speaker 1: provider was judged by the number of eels of bear
Speaker 1: grease that stood by the fireplace. What if he had
Speaker 1: like thirty of them there, what's he gonna do with
Speaker 1: all that? Well, I mean it was a It was
Speaker 1: a measurement of exchange. They'd take them to the store,
Speaker 1: trade it for something. But it doesn't it make sense
Speaker 1: how so they used the The skin of a deer
Speaker 1: was basically a serious medium of exchange. But they were
Speaker 1: using the big part of the hide, so that like
Speaker 1: the legs, the tail, the neck and stuff would have
Speaker 1: not been as valuable. So presumably you cut the neck
Speaker 1: and head off and make almost like a sock. I mean,
Speaker 1: could imagine a hack poured out his mouth. I'm telling you, ranside,
Speaker 1: if you think they had neck of bar grease, you
Speaker 1: gotta fill a hole deer time. Man. Yeah, what do
Speaker 1: you think about that? Dad? I think it's awesome. Man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what I've got from my wealth. That's what's going
Speaker 1: to my kids. He's got his his elves filled with
Speaker 1: bitcoin rancis bear grease. Okay, moving on, So, uh, we got,
Speaker 1: we got, we got. We took a little flak from
Speaker 1: one person one person over my story of the Captain Rooster.
Speaker 1: Did y'all know that it kind of hurt? Well? I
Speaker 1: knew it there was a chance of that, but also
Speaker 1: knew that and in before I said the story, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember, but I said, anybody that
Speaker 1: challenges me on the treatment of this animal just absolutely
Speaker 1: has no ground to stand on if they've ever eaten
Speaker 1: a chicken an egg that came from any top of
Speaker 1: confinement agricultural farm. Because this chick, this rooster had the
Speaker 1: life of a king, except for when you had a
Speaker 1: rooster actually under every I can't believe how many messages
Speaker 1: we've received from people who want to tell you their
Speaker 1: mean rooster stories. I also can't believe how many pictures
Speaker 1: we found of Captain attacking people in full attack mode.
Speaker 1: It's a he was pretty mean, and I think that
Speaker 1: it's only instinctive to protect yourself. I will say when
Speaker 1: I saw that this man probably did not grow up
Speaker 1: on a farm and has never been around a rooster. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: I mean, but the thing of it was is that
Speaker 1: he lived a very long life for a rooster, and
Speaker 1: we only attempted to kill him once. Proponent ofthanation, Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like if your dog bites your what
Speaker 1: are you gonna do? Shoot your neighbor. I'm wondering if
Speaker 1: he thought that it was unethical to shoot him with
Speaker 1: a bow and arrow. Well, okay, I mean there's factors
Speaker 1: of this story. Buddy. Oh, I'm not talking to you,
Speaker 1: I'm talking to the guy. It's like I didn't want
Speaker 1: to shoot a gun right here. You know, maybe that's
Speaker 1: an US here all the time. Though perhaps perhaps Shepherd's
Speaker 1: a better shot with a botto. Perhaps a bow and
Speaker 1: arrow is a more ethical way to kill something than
Speaker 1: a gun. Oh I could. I mean, I'm being serious.
Speaker 1: That's not the reason we did it, is it philosophical conversation?
Speaker 1: Here to pray on? That is the reason you did it? Well,
Speaker 1: because I wanted shepherd to take care of it for me,
Speaker 1: just real quick. But when I was three years old,
Speaker 1: I went to my grandfather's farm and a rooster attacked
Speaker 1: me and I studed. You know, the family laughed about
Speaker 1: that for years. Yes, you know all that stuff. Well,
Speaker 1: oh you went back, you went back to tell what happened,
Speaker 1: and you stuttered to your mind. Well no, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, and it was bad and and and here's
Speaker 1: how you handle a deal like that. I mean, all
Speaker 1: this stuff y'all doing is it's a waste of time.
Speaker 1: You're saying, how do we handle someone that has a complaint? No? No, No,
Speaker 1: the rooster that night for supper, guess what we had.
Speaker 1: We had cheek and in dumplins. My grandfather went out
Speaker 1: there immediately and killed that rooster and threw it in
Speaker 1: the hey and cooked it. That's a good story. I've
Speaker 1: I've got a Louin knucom story. So my grandfather's name
Speaker 1: is Louin Nukem his pictures right there. That is Dad's father,
Speaker 1: lou and Knucom. When I was a little boy, he
Speaker 1: told me, and and this was a this story was
Speaker 1: right with philosophical proverb. Okay, he told me that when
Speaker 1: he was a boy. You remember this story. I know
Speaker 1: you'll remember. Dad, he said, when he was a boy,
Speaker 1: they had this big rooster, big old rooster. They got
Speaker 1: a new rooster, a young rooster. The big rooster whooped
Speaker 1: on the young rooster. The young rooster he became subordinate
Speaker 1: to the big rooster. Well, the young rooster grew up
Speaker 1: and perhaps said he always knew that the young rooster
Speaker 1: could have whipped the old rooster, but ever did because
Speaker 1: he thought he was the lesser of the two, he said.
Speaker 1: One because chickens don't know how to look at the mirror,
Speaker 1: he said, he said. One day, And I don't know
Speaker 1: if he did this, or if his dad did this
Speaker 1: or what, but I believe the story to bend him
Speaker 1: to have done this. He covered the old chicken in
Speaker 1: black wood ash to change its color, and then pitched
Speaker 1: it out in the yard. And the young rooster sees
Speaker 1: a new rooster and comes and just whoops. The fire
Speaker 1: out of the rooster, and and he was trying to
Speaker 1: tell me that to say, it's all in your head.
Speaker 1: You know, you can do a lot more than you
Speaker 1: think you can do. Do you remember him telling that story.
Speaker 1: He preached that to us. I'm telling you he told
Speaker 1: me that story five times. I think he liked better
Speaker 1: than no. Okay, So I was telling that about the
Speaker 1: guy that was given us a hard time, And tell
Speaker 1: what you said, Dad, Dad called me another day. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, this guy didn't like the captain story, and
Speaker 1: and you know I could see where he was coming from,
Speaker 1: but I didn't particularly like, you know, the way you
Speaker 1: addressed him, even though it was it was very well,
Speaker 1: and I was addressing him just in talking to he,
Speaker 1: like I never officially. Yeah. So anyway, Yeah, I just
Speaker 1: told Clay, I said, you know, when you're dealing with
Speaker 1: people that are coming at you from a negative standpoint,
Speaker 1: my experience working for forty years is you immediately agree
Speaker 1: with him. You know, I mean I have seen so
Speaker 1: many I've defused so many arguments by going, you know,
Speaker 1: you're making a great point that they used to come
Speaker 1: in my office and be so mad they couldn't even
Speaker 1: see straight. And the first thing I would did they
Speaker 1: were dealing with people that would have gone, hey, man,
Speaker 1: this is the regulations, you know, and I would go, man,
Speaker 1: I don't blame you for being mad, I said, I've
Speaker 1: had something like you know, so you defuse them and
Speaker 1: then you eventually tell them where they're wrong and they
Speaker 1: leave happy. And so when I look at this kid,
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, it's ironic, but he believes the
Speaker 1: exact same thing. You know, he he doesn't want the
Speaker 1: animal rights people to take our hunting privileges. So I
Speaker 1: mean he pretty much slapped down his reputation, his love
Speaker 1: for bear grease. He laid it on the line. Man,
Speaker 1: he said, I ain't tolerating this stuff. You know. He
Speaker 1: misinterpreted the whole thing. He made a mistake. But I
Speaker 1: saw that. I like this kid, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: He's got the right, he's got what you're fighting for.
Speaker 1: He just misinterpreted this deal and carried it too far,
Speaker 1: I thought, And I bet you Bill he's under thirty
Speaker 1: years old. I'll tell you why. Because cancel culture is essential,
Speaker 1: where if somebody does anything wrong to you, you cancel them,
Speaker 1: just canceled done. And that that is kind of the
Speaker 1: modern trend where I bet he's on a thirty years
Speaker 1: old could be wrong. Hey, the opposite side of that
Speaker 1: is instead of attacking you, I mean, he could have
Speaker 1: done it in a way where where you know, I
Speaker 1: mean a lot of people don't like your shooting a
Speaker 1: chicken with a boat. You know, well, how did my
Speaker 1: grandfather kill that chicken? He's probably wrong as your neck
Speaker 1: by the same thing. But so he should have been
Speaker 1: supporting you. You should have been supporting him. No, it's wild,
Speaker 1: you know, I read I believe I heard this on
Speaker 1: a podcast, But it was a guy that was He
Speaker 1: basically did a study on the on the humane treatment
Speaker 1: of chickens. That his study was on the humane treatment
Speaker 1: of chickens, and he studied two types of chickens. He
Speaker 1: studied confinement agriculture chickens that are raised in chicken houses,
Speaker 1: and he studied cock fighting roosters. Oh man, Yeah, And
Speaker 1: this guy wasn't like pro cock fighting. What he was
Speaker 1: trying to do was show the hypocrisy inside of mankind
Speaker 1: in general, and basically a confining agricultural chicken, like you'd
Speaker 1: go to your big mainstream grocery store the cheapest chicken
Speaker 1: you can buy, that chicken is genetically modified such that
Speaker 1: it has huge amounts of meat. These animals are designed
Speaker 1: to live six months and then be butchered. If they
Speaker 1: live longer than that, they waste so much they can't
Speaker 1: even function. They're fed all kinds of hormones there. I mean,
Speaker 1: just they they live, you know, literally probably have a
Speaker 1: square foot of space, and we're able to live. We
Speaker 1: had two chicken houses, chickens in each house. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I'm not dogging that. Don't somebody if you write me
Speaker 1: and say that I'm anti agriculture, that's fighting and and
Speaker 1: and then the guy said, so he paints the picture
Speaker 1: that can find them an agriculture chickens in their life
Speaker 1: six months, you know, all this, And then he goes,
Speaker 1: and then I went down. He maybe had to go
Speaker 1: to another country, or maybe the study was done a
Speaker 1: long time ago. I don't him. And he said, cock
Speaker 1: fighting chickens, they usually don't start fighting them till they're
Speaker 1: two years old. So they've already lived three times the
Speaker 1: amount of time that I confined an agriculture chicken would live.
Speaker 1: And he said, they're fed incredible diets, and they they
Speaker 1: get they have much more space. A lot of them
Speaker 1: are raised in bigger spaces. This is not an endorsed
Speaker 1: And the guy was like, Hey, I'm anti cock fighting, Like,
Speaker 1: but I've got a question. Do you think this gentleman
Speaker 1: that wrote in about the captain, if we covered you
Speaker 1: an ash, do you think you whip your tail that's
Speaker 1: a great way to get out of this car? No.
Speaker 1: I really do being being inside the hunting community and
Speaker 1: baiting bears and doing a lot of things that seemed
Speaker 1: controversial to people. I love actually getting down to the
Speaker 1: nitty gritty of the ethics of some of this stuff
Speaker 1: because usually there's like big holes inside of the way
Speaker 1: people think that if you just slowed down and looked
Speaker 1: at a little different you'd be like, well, or fill
Speaker 1: those holes up with information? Yeah, do a little research,
Speaker 1: a little study, read a book. We are about twenty
Speaker 1: minutes past when we should have stopped talking about chicken.
Speaker 1: Chicken was making me hungry. I'm starving. Uh oh okay.
Speaker 1: I did have a guy send me a picture of
Speaker 1: a legit black panther, A white one, A white one. Yep,
Speaker 1: it's called a It's not an albino, but it's a
Speaker 1: lucistic panther. Uh. Animal has partial loss of pigmentation. It
Speaker 1: isn't purely right. This they called a puma, but it's
Speaker 1: essentially I'm not I'm not sure if it's the exact
Speaker 1: same species as our mountain lions, but was found in
Speaker 1: the Brazil's Atlantic rainforest and they've been getting truck camera
Speaker 1: pictures of it. Supposedly this is from so I haven't
Speaker 1: checked on the much more than just a quick service.
Speaker 1: But hey, thanks man whoever sent me that. That was
Speaker 1: nice not to get a black one. Still getting Black
Speaker 1: Panthers photos by the day without any explanation. The Black
Speaker 1: Panthers are literally sending him their selfies. Yeah all right, Josh,
Speaker 1: you have a song for us? No, no, no, oh,
Speaker 1: I forgot the funniest part. I forgot the funniest part
Speaker 1: of the story of the guy that gave it was
Speaker 1: a hard time about the Captain story. He gave us
Speaker 1: five stars. I saw that he gave us five stars.
Speaker 1: Remember the other guy was like the other guy was like, man,
Speaker 1: this is this is the legendary podcast. Two stars. So
Speaker 1: this guy that got onto us, he was like, Claire,
Speaker 1: I'm never listening to this again. YadA YadA, YadA. Five stars. Man,
Speaker 1: you win something, you lose something kind of balances out
Speaker 1: in the end. Yeah, you guys had some reviews you
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about though, didn't you. I've got one, okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: tell me what it is. Josh read it? Uh this guy,
Speaker 1: I thought it was an excellent review. Uh the Bearded
Speaker 1: Mystery Man. I knew this is probably the best podcast
Speaker 1: to ever hit the digital airways. It's informative, interesting, humorous, challenging,
Speaker 1: and so much more. I look forward to the release
Speaker 1: every week. The main podcast is great, but the render
Speaker 1: is next level. The group of panelists every other week
Speaker 1: are some of the most entertaining humans on Earth, especially
Speaker 1: that land Bridge guy. What a shining star. What I
Speaker 1: wouldn't give to have a face to face conversation with him.
Speaker 1: Keep up the good work, Clay and meat Eaters. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's gonna be dead. You wrote that in my mind
Speaker 1: that it was a plan. Okay. I read it and
Speaker 1: I was like, I actually sent it to you right away,
Speaker 1: and I was like, man, this is like I'm thought
Speaker 1: maybe one of your kids did it or something I
Speaker 1: didn't know you did. This is Josh, this is this
Speaker 1: is this is impeachable. Canceled, canceling, canceled, Josh, I felt good. Hey,
Speaker 1: I got one so on Friday. The title of the
Speaker 1: review is great Waste of time. It's from the Wild Archer,
Speaker 1: and I'll just read the as long it's great, I'll
Speaker 1: read the first. In the last sentence, he says, I
Speaker 1: just want to take the opportunity to thank Mr Newcom
Speaker 1: for such a spectacular waste of my time. He of course,
Speaker 1: he's being a tongue in cheek, he's being facetious, but
Speaker 1: he just goes on to talk about he just enjoys
Speaker 1: basically hanging out with us, and and he says, you've
Speaker 1: ever driven through southwestern Wyoming on his way back and
Speaker 1: forth to work, you'd be dozing through the boarding too.
Speaker 1: Thanks for wasting my time in such fashion. Clay and
Speaker 1: guests and all the boys in the render. It's just fun.
Speaker 1: But I say, I really enjoy coming and hanging out.
Speaker 1: And it's cool that this gentleman is hanging out with us. Okay,
Speaker 1: the Chicken thing. I don't look at iTunes reviews, but
Speaker 1: I read that one. I pulled it up to read
Speaker 1: The Chicken and we were in the car and I
Speaker 1: just started reading them, a bunch of them out loud,
Speaker 1: and we came to this one, and he said, I
Speaker 1: honestly was not a fan of Clay when he was
Speaker 1: on The Meat Eater. I thought he dominated the conversation
Speaker 1: too much, and I just looked and said, the story
Speaker 1: of my life. He goes on to say that he
Speaker 1: loves this one, and okay, okay, all right, now give
Speaker 1: it his own podcast. I love his take on on
Speaker 1: issues and topics, great stories, and I like the render.
Speaker 1: Keep it up. But it's pretty funny. Yeah. I love
Speaker 1: it when people are trying to say something nice and
Speaker 1: they started with telling kind of the baseline of how
Speaker 1: they really hated you before. Here's the tip of the spear.
Speaker 1: This is from Acorns five stars. Lots of Acorn talk.
Speaker 1: Quicking to the point, quicking to the point. All right, dad,
Speaker 1: did you have a review? Yeah, I have a It
Speaker 1: was very short. I was gonna read through all of them.
Speaker 1: In fact, I asked Judy to do it and pick
Speaker 1: one out for me. But this thing was just real short.
Speaker 1: And I read it and I thought, well, why I
Speaker 1: read anymore? This kid titled it. I say, kid, you
Speaker 1: know it could be old guy like me. He said, awesome,
Speaker 1: I love the research, I love the information. Very good.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Mr Newkum something like that. But you know,
Speaker 1: when you think about it, I listened to a few podcasts,
Speaker 1: and I enjoy several podcasts, and Uh, my point is this,
Speaker 1: this bear Grease is well researched, It is scripted. There's
Speaker 1: so much time and depth put into it. That's why
Speaker 1: he likes the research and the information. So that's why
Speaker 1: I like it is because it's not just a bunch
Speaker 1: of good old boys sitting around yepping, you know, which
Speaker 1: I like that too. Nobody wants to hear that, but
Speaker 1: but really so I compliment you on the work that's
Speaker 1: put into it. What's interesting is that people say Clay
Speaker 1: is a great storyteller. Well, guess what. When we're deer camp,
Speaker 1: you know who I listened to most. It's not Clay.
Speaker 1: It's not me. It's usually some of our friends that
Speaker 1: are really great storytellers. But if those same people were
Speaker 1: doing a podcast, you probably wouldn't like it too much.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the research, it's the work. So whether
Speaker 1: you're hunting, at your career, whatever you're doing, I mean,
Speaker 1: the work pays off well, and and the add some
Speaker 1: mask to really what he's saying. It's like we're reading
Speaker 1: all this stuff, and people people say plays a good storyteller,
Speaker 1: and me and Dad are like, oh, you want to
Speaker 1: find a good story teller, We'll we'll me, We'll show
Speaker 1: you a storyteller. It's not me. And and I'm being serious. Uh.
Speaker 1: I was interviewed by a lady the other day for
Speaker 1: something and I I She was like, Clay, how do
Speaker 1: you tell stories? How do you formulate this in your mind?
Speaker 1: How do you do this? You know? How did you?
Speaker 1: And I mean, like, you know, she's saying, like, you're
Speaker 1: a good storyteller, and I just said, I said, I'm
Speaker 1: not a good storyteller. I know good storytellers, and I've
Speaker 1: always rejected when people have said that I'm a good storyteller.
Speaker 1: And I told her this, I said, because I reject
Speaker 1: that because every time I've seen somebody that thought they
Speaker 1: were a good storyteller that it corrupted him. M. I
Speaker 1: mean like when you're at a campfire and you're the
Speaker 1: guy that's stepping up to the plate to tell eighty
Speaker 1: percent of the stories, Usually that's the guy you don't
Speaker 1: want to hear talk. Usually it's the guy sitting in
Speaker 1: the back that didn't saying anything that's really got something
Speaker 1: to say. And what I kind of distilled my idea
Speaker 1: of storytelling down is is that a good storyteller is
Speaker 1: passionate about the story. I mean, it's not oratory skill.
Speaker 1: It's not detail, because you could you could be trained
Speaker 1: to tell a story, and there is there is some
Speaker 1: skill involved in like actually learning how to tell a story,
Speaker 1: but but a passion to tell the story for someone else.
Speaker 1: And I think that's what fuels Burgher's like when I
Speaker 1: talk about Roy Clark and James Lawrence and Daniel Boone
Speaker 1: and these guys like, that's what I that's the dry like.
Speaker 1: So I agree with Dad. It's not about good storytelling.
Speaker 1: It's about wanting to get the story, that the truth
Speaker 1: of the story out that. You know. What's interesting is
Speaker 1: that if I had worded, if I had taken the time,
Speaker 1: which I would not do, if I had taken two
Speaker 1: or three hours and written this out, the bottom line
Speaker 1: mine would have been exactly what you said. And here
Speaker 1: I go to tell it and I forget that. You know,
Speaker 1: so you don't forget stuff because you do the research
Speaker 1: and you actually scripted. You know. I'm in a bowl
Speaker 1: shop one day and this guy sees me walk in
Speaker 1: and he tells his buddy he goes place son Man
Speaker 1: is a great storyteller. You I'll go listen to him.
Speaker 1: And I didn't say anything, but I thought, he's really
Speaker 1: not a great storyteller. But really, deck Camp, he's not.
Speaker 1: His storytelling on the Render is unbelievable. So any and
Speaker 1: you think, well, okay, Gary, what you're saying, anybody could
Speaker 1: do this, Well, no you can't. I can't. You gotta
Speaker 1: have the love of the subject first. You gotta have
Speaker 1: the desire to communicate it in a way to captivate people.
Speaker 1: So I mean, it goes deep. And then you can't
Speaker 1: just instantly turn it on. You gotta start reading. In allege,
Speaker 1: instead of studying algebra, you go to the library and
Speaker 1: study bear and then when you get your diploma, you
Speaker 1: don't quit reading. You keep reading, and all of a
Speaker 1: sudden you got a base of knowledge and knowledgice, power
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah. So you know, he said it
Speaker 1: all research, it's information, and that's why these are good.
Speaker 1: Now the Render, oh my goodness, it's good too. The
Speaker 1: people are hungry for stories. I think I think we're
Speaker 1: at a time too in our just in the climate
Speaker 1: of the planet where these stories of connection to the
Speaker 1: land are resonating with people. Yeah, they really seem to be.
Speaker 1: And I'm very, very interested in the identity, always have
Speaker 1: been for a long time. I mean personal identity, but
Speaker 1: also national identity. And that's why boone is so interesting. Hey,
Speaker 1: Josh and Misty have a song, Cumberland Gap song. So
Speaker 1: now we're gonna start talking about the Cumberland Gap. All right, Josh,
Speaker 1: tell us what you're playing. All right, we're gonna we're
Speaker 1: gonna sing a song here about the Cumberland It's David Rawlins.
Speaker 1: David Rawlins so on the on the on the podcast
Speaker 1: that was the Wayfarers song that was, which is an
Speaker 1: old timey version of a song called Cumberly Gap. This
Speaker 1: is a newer version, I mean a totally different songs,
Speaker 1: but a new one. Yeah, okay, best you ready? We
Speaker 1: have never played the song together. This is the part
Speaker 1: I don't like about the Barrias podcast. We're just gonna yeah,
Speaker 1: coming in. Gap is the devil of a gap. Crumbling
Speaker 1: gap is the devil of a cap. Kiss me Mama,
Speaker 1: kiss your boy, bless me well and lucky for I
Speaker 1: won't be back to live return. I'm going to Kentucky
Speaker 1: Cumberling Gap is the devil of a gap. That's what
Speaker 1: the scouts all tell you. Sure enough, it'll make it
Speaker 1: tough if it doesn't kill you, Kill you, Kentucky. She's
Speaker 1: a waiting on the other side. Give you the beaver.
Speaker 1: Put the daiyline in your rye. Brother John's already gone
Speaker 1: with the boot of jerky maiden made the trip from
Speaker 1: the bizard grip. I'd rather rest so Satan Comberland Gap.
Speaker 1: She's the devil. Love a gap. O the snowcap coming.
Speaker 1: Victor of a bon is back. Oh we love that woman.
Speaker 1: Daniel stood on a pinnacle rock. You can tump it
Speaker 1: down the mountain, took his trustee over. Daniel started shouting, shouting,
Speaker 1: She's a waiting on the other side. Give you the beaver,
Speaker 1: the deer in your eye. And cap is the devil.
Speaker 1: Love a gap, comber then cap is the devil. Love
Speaker 1: a cap coming? Then up is the devil. Love a
Speaker 1: gap combling. Cap is the devil. Love a gap? Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome.
Speaker 1: Really good man, that was awesome. You know what I
Speaker 1: what I do love about I think I I like
Speaker 1: things that attract the attention of multiple genres of life.
Speaker 1: So the Cumberland Gap I can connect to a gap
Speaker 1: in a mountain from a hunting perspective, because my whole
Speaker 1: life we've talked about gaps and mountains that animals travel
Speaker 1: through that we hunt, and then this gap is also
Speaker 1: it's just so complex because this gap has become this
Speaker 1: thing that was the gateway to the West for Daniel Boone.
Speaker 1: It was super influential in the travel corridors of Native Americans.
Speaker 1: Just super complex and so and by multiple genres, I
Speaker 1: mean our just flocked to the Cumberland Gap. I mean
Speaker 1: most of the people that I interviewed, even Josh, who
Speaker 1: didn't know much about the Cumberland Gap. He knew that
Speaker 1: folk singers wanted to sing about the Cumberland Gap. But man,
Speaker 1: what did y'all think of the podcast? It was good.
Speaker 1: It was it was full of information that I did
Speaker 1: not know was it was it Uh, it was kind
Speaker 1: of dense, it was very I actually had to listen
Speaker 1: to it a couple of times because I got through
Speaker 1: the first time and I was like, oh wait, I
Speaker 1: missed a big portion of that. I've got to go
Speaker 1: back and listen to that again. I think the I
Speaker 1: think the part that I found the most interesting was
Speaker 1: listening to the gentleman at the end, the Cherokee. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what a what an interesting perspective. Yeah, it was. It
Speaker 1: was neat to hear him talk because you know, I
Speaker 1: I you know, I don't know why, but I think
Speaker 1: a lot about Native American people in Native American history.
Speaker 1: I find it really fascinating. I love the art and
Speaker 1: just the the the tragedies that the Native Americans had
Speaker 1: endured through. Um too, it would be very easy to
Speaker 1: look at that period in history and be bitter. And
Speaker 1: he was very you know, not not sweeping anything under
Speaker 1: the rug, but at the same time saying, look, this
Speaker 1: is the history that's brought us to where we are.
Speaker 1: And uh and the the just the the value that
Speaker 1: he placed on the exploration of Daniel Boone and and
Speaker 1: while not negating the the normalcy of what it would
Speaker 1: have been for Native Americans a thousand years before Daniel
Speaker 1: man he uh, so there's I want to talk about
Speaker 1: him talking about the land Bridge because he I specifically
Speaker 1: didn't say land Bridge. I had I had another guy
Speaker 1: right in and say, hey, quit disseminating false information about
Speaker 1: the land Bridge. There was a time when the land
Speaker 1: Bridge in in the passage of humans across the land
Speaker 1: Bridge was like the prime a theory of how humans
Speaker 1: got to North America. That theory has now been broken
Speaker 1: up and there's been newer things that have happened, and
Speaker 1: ultimately there's and I'm not an expert on all those theories.
Speaker 1: I do know that there's a place called Cooper's Ferry
Speaker 1: Deep in Idaho that supposedly has some of the oldest
Speaker 1: human existence, which shows that potentially there was. It's it's
Speaker 1: connected to water travel into North America, into the Northwest,
Speaker 1: so like these people, you know, they're saying they came
Speaker 1: over on boats. There's also evidence that down in South
Speaker 1: America that humans have been there for way longer than
Speaker 1: people than the stuff we see from the land Bridge.
Speaker 1: So we'll do a podcast at some point on all
Speaker 1: these different theories. But basically he was like, dude, Taylor
Speaker 1: Keane was like, your land bridge story doesn't cut it
Speaker 1: for the Cherokees. That Josh the land Bridge spillmaker was
Speaker 1: soon gonna break up and go the way of the
Speaker 1: old land bridge theory. Well, what about what about the
Speaker 1: Cherokee story of where they came from? Do you do
Speaker 1: you remember said with the blow darts that I was like,
Speaker 1: what that blew my mind? And how okay, okay, the
Speaker 1: reason that there's no more land bridge between Alaska and
Speaker 1: Russia is because glaciers melted, sea levels rose, which would
Speaker 1: have all kind of you know, he said that their
Speaker 1: island flooded there in their stories, I mean, they didn't
Speaker 1: just make this up after here in the science like this.
Speaker 1: These are ancient stories and and big turtles are big
Speaker 1: in their cosmology and anyway, so if that was the case,
Speaker 1: you know, he was saying, maybe they came in from
Speaker 1: the west side, maybe from the east side um of
Speaker 1: the gap. But yeah, I thought Taylor Ken's input was
Speaker 1: it was incredible. It was my It was my favorite part.
Speaker 1: And he didn't gloss over anything, and you didn't either
Speaker 1: in the interview with him or talking to him. But
Speaker 1: when he talked about you know that forever it was
Speaker 1: Daniel Boone, you know, as that was promoted as discovering
Speaker 1: you know, the Cumberland Gap, when the Native Americans have
Speaker 1: been rolling through there for you know, ten thousand years,
Speaker 1: are as long, could be as long as ten thousand years.
Speaker 1: It was it reminded me of some old man I
Speaker 1: used to work with about when somebody else would take
Speaker 1: credit for something a job or or laboring that someone
Speaker 1: else had done. And he would always say, you know,
Speaker 1: that's kind of like we killed a bear, but Paul's
Speaker 1: the one that shot him. Where the credit wasn't going
Speaker 1: actually going. You know, I'm sitting here bragging about you know,
Speaker 1: this this activity that we did, but really it was
Speaker 1: these other folks over here that they did it. But
Speaker 1: I was there. I was with him, yeah, but he actually,
Speaker 1: you know why Europeans we weren't even there. I tried
Speaker 1: to really paint the picture of what I have seen
Speaker 1: painted for me. I mean, this isn't an original thought
Speaker 1: that I had, but from the the books that I've read,
Speaker 1: in research I've done, I mean, Daniel Boone was Daniel
Speaker 1: Boone because of Indigenous people, Like that's what made him.
Speaker 1: And that really is what distinguishes American identity from Europe.
Speaker 1: Like if you really boil it down, like these people
Speaker 1: came over with totally the worldview and ideology coming from Europe, Scotland, Ireland,
Speaker 1: they came here and then they were so influenced by
Speaker 1: Native Americans, especially the first people that got here, because
Speaker 1: they had learned how to hunt. They had to learn
Speaker 1: how to survive on this continent. And and then so
Speaker 1: the Backwoodsman, the Frontiersman. Is this merging of English Western
Speaker 1: views in Native American. This this this merging of it.
Speaker 1: And what's wild is that today? And why I was
Speaker 1: so interested in Boone is that today Boone's influence on
Speaker 1: the American hunter is extremely notable, extremely notable. Um, Misty,
Speaker 1: what was your favorite part? Well, I was gonna say
Speaker 1: that whole last section. I thought you did a good
Speaker 1: job telling this story from a lot of different angles.
Speaker 1: And I thought that Robert Morgan did a good job
Speaker 1: and kind of almost classic professor sort of instructing everyone
Speaker 1: how to hear history and how to how to take
Speaker 1: it in. And what I liked about the podcast is
Speaker 1: that it did show, it did show multiple perspectives of
Speaker 1: this of this piece of history. And I think that
Speaker 1: right now when we went to we went to the
Speaker 1: Cumberland Gap that's on the podcast, and we watched this
Speaker 1: little video with the kids before we we hiked it,
Speaker 1: and in the video they kind of just gloss over
Speaker 1: the fact that Native American people were there first, and it,
Speaker 1: you know, it just really kind of they were a
Speaker 1: blip on the on the picture, and as we were
Speaker 1: a hiking with that was one of my questions is
Speaker 1: what what about that side of the story? You know,
Speaker 1: you're we're celebrating Daniel Boone and we're celebrating him as
Speaker 1: the person who discovered this, but what about what about
Speaker 1: that that side of the story. And I think what
Speaker 1: this podcast did a good job of doing is showing that,
Speaker 1: and I think it's important to do that. Clay and
Speaker 1: I were talking. I've taught some history classes for high
Speaker 1: schoolers and one of the things that we have them
Speaker 1: do before we that I've had them do before we
Speaker 1: go into any type of histories, we just walked through
Speaker 1: the building and do a little a little walk around
Speaker 1: and then make everybody right down all the different things
Speaker 1: that they did that they saw. And you know, the
Speaker 1: people at the front might see someone in the hallway
Speaker 1: who's gone into a room by the time the people
Speaker 1: at the back around the corner, and so they would
Speaker 1: not see that same person. And so the person at
Speaker 1: the front of the line is going to say there
Speaker 1: was someone at the in the hallway, and the person
Speaker 1: at the back going to say the hallway was empty.
Speaker 1: And we all tell the story and we agree, we
Speaker 1: don't think anyone in the room is lying, and these are,
Speaker 1: you know, totally different stories completely, And we talked about
Speaker 1: and the importance of understanding every what everyone sees. That
Speaker 1: you don't actually know the full history of what happened
Speaker 1: in that hallway unless we have all of our perspectives,
Speaker 1: and that that's one perspective does not invalidate another. But
Speaker 1: until we have all the perspectives and really are looking
Speaker 1: at history from all these different angles. So I like
Speaker 1: that you did that, and I think it's important. I
Speaker 1: think it's super important to have those different perspectives of it.
Speaker 1: And Taylor Keens, so, you know, wonderful representative and he
Speaker 1: knows a whole lot of the of the history, and
Speaker 1: I think it's super cool, just on a practical level,
Speaker 1: the oral tradition that they have as a people that
Speaker 1: I we, you know, I would not say we have
Speaker 1: as my family anyway, does not have that type of
Speaker 1: of oral history. And I think those are real important
Speaker 1: components of of looking at history. So I really enjoyed
Speaker 1: the podcast. Dan, What was your favorite part? Probably two things,
Speaker 1: So one was the whole kind of the mechanism of
Speaker 1: smallpox and how like you know, these European settlers came,
Speaker 1: is this this wide open wilderness and just imagining the people.
Speaker 1: You know, I think the Dr Keane said, you know,
Speaker 1: I think if your hundred closest relatives and friends and
Speaker 1: now all of you but five are gone. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: oh my god. I just didn't occur to me. And
Speaker 1: the whole kind of narrative and story. And then the
Speaker 1: other thing that really stuck out to me was the
Speaker 1: right right before the very end where you read was
Speaker 1: supposedly Daniel Boone's own words, John Philson. John Philson pound
Speaker 1: that name into people. There's there's a couple of names
Speaker 1: beside Boon that everyone's gonna know by the time they're
Speaker 1: done with this, John Philson and Lyman Draper, John Philson,
Speaker 1: John Philson was the one, and Ritchie John Philson Lionel
Speaker 1: Richie and Lyman Drake got you so um No. So
Speaker 1: Philson was the one in eighty four who wrote a
Speaker 1: book about Kentucky. One single chapter in the book was
Speaker 1: about Colonel Daniel Boone, who no one knew his name,
Speaker 1: you know, No, he was just regionally famous, and then
Speaker 1: that catapulted him. So go ahead, So when whenever Philson,
Speaker 1: in writing in Daniel Daniel Boone's words, said, I can't
Speaker 1: remember the exact phrase, but he in his mind what
Speaker 1: was on the other side of the gap was a
Speaker 1: second paradise. Yeah, this idea that out there there's something more,
Speaker 1: there's something and just the whole you go out there.
Speaker 1: And he was anxious and worried and and needed extra philosophy.
Speaker 1: You know, he was kind of pushed to his limits,
Speaker 1: but he was in search of, you know, the idea
Speaker 1: of there's a paradise out there. Very I don't know
Speaker 1: if it was a concerted effort. I don't think there
Speaker 1: was like an American marketing team in the eighteen hundreds
Speaker 1: that met together under some administration it was like, we're
Speaker 1: gonna market the Cumberland Gap in the West as this.
Speaker 1: But that's essentially what happened. Well, I think collectively, like,
Speaker 1: are that that kind of part of American culture and
Speaker 1: our consciousness. We wanted that, and so it naturally came out.
Speaker 1: Think think about the direction of movement from where we came,
Speaker 1: where what Europeans came from, and they would have been
Speaker 1: coming from the only reason they left is because they
Speaker 1: didn't like it where they were. So they were they
Speaker 1: were leaving oppression, leaving poverty, leaving something and and just
Speaker 1: moment think about momentum even in physics, like you start
Speaker 1: moving a direction, it's hard to stop. So once they
Speaker 1: came west and got to the colonies and then got
Speaker 1: to America, there was this drive. And you know, he
Speaker 1: talked about how Jefferson and Washington and all these leaders
Speaker 1: of early America were like the West, the West, the West,
Speaker 1: and I'll drop of state meant that you're here. In
Speaker 1: part three, which nobody has heard yet, but Robert Morrigan,
Speaker 1: he tells me that Jefferson said that the Ohio River
Speaker 1: was the most beautiful river in the world, and he'd
Speaker 1: never been there, but he was. And and he he
Speaker 1: changed the entrance of one of his houses. The key
Speaker 1: entrance was originally facing the east, and he changed it
Speaker 1: to face the west. And these are the thought leaders
Speaker 1: of this country. And so the idea, this paradise beyond
Speaker 1: the mountains was just, I mean, had appeal that was unstoppable.
Speaker 1: Daniel Boone really is the forerunner of manifest They were
Speaker 1: just looking for somebody to attach that too. They were
Speaker 1: they were looking for a hero. And then the artist
Speaker 1: came in. You know, I started the podcast by talking
Speaker 1: about George Caleb Bingham's painting and man, those in they
Speaker 1: called them the Romantic artist, perhaps as the Enlightenment artists,
Speaker 1: who um, they that picture it's not in here, it's
Speaker 1: in the house right now, but oh it shows that
Speaker 1: like the the landscape is dark and on ominous, and
Speaker 1: the big dark rocks and and and silhouettes of trees
Speaker 1: with no leaves. And then Boone's it's like he steps
Speaker 1: into this beam of sunlight. His clothes looked like they've
Speaker 1: been pressed, looked like Malachi Nichols, and he just looks
Speaker 1: so stately and and and these guys were were influential.
Speaker 1: I'll read what what was written about, um, George Caleb Bingham,
Speaker 1: And so he was an influential writer or or artist
Speaker 1: in early Americana. He was an early artist in early America.
Speaker 1: And he said, um it said his paintings were a six.
Speaker 1: He was a significant contributor to earlier American genre painting,
Speaker 1: a significant contributor to early Americans. Genre painting were influential
Speaker 1: and crafting and disseminating political ideologies and popular myths about
Speaker 1: American national identity in the era of westward expansion. So
Speaker 1: it's like everything was like going, we gotta go west, boys,
Speaker 1: we gotta go west. And then Dee Boone goes west
Speaker 1: and he's a hero, and he was this phenomenal person
Speaker 1: and just the the American identity just latched onto him
Speaker 1: in such a powerful way, which is which is pretty wild. Dad,
Speaker 1: What was your favorite part of it? Well, the bluegrass.
Speaker 1: You go through the Cumberland Gap, you don't know what
Speaker 1: you're gonna find, and you find the most beautiful place
Speaker 1: on the planet almost, I mean, it's just wonderful. And
Speaker 1: and uh they said somebody said it was almost a
Speaker 1: miracle because there were no Indian tribes. There was nothing
Speaker 1: negative there. Because they looked at it. It's what blood
Speaker 1: something the country, dark and bloody they called it. The
Speaker 1: Native Americans called the dark and bloody ground. That they
Speaker 1: wanted it. You know, I might have misinterpreted the way
Speaker 1: I looked at it. They wanted that ground for themselves,
Speaker 1: all of them wanted it, and so nobody and so
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, Danny Boy walks in and he goes, hey, man,
Speaker 1: I believe I'll take over this problem. I mean, you
Speaker 1: know that that's crazy. And the other thing that I
Speaker 1: noticed is that if we had school teachers, Misty, the
Speaker 1: if we had history teachers that could teach like this,
Speaker 1: I mean, can you imagine the interesting? And that's why
Speaker 1: I think we all want to learn, but we don't
Speaker 1: want to learn in a boring fashion. We want to
Speaker 1: learn in a fun fashion. And and one other point
Speaker 1: is through all this trauma, all this adventure, it's like
Speaker 1: Boon would go, I think you might have alluded to it, Dan,
Speaker 1: is that I'm content. Yeah, my my brother's left me.
Speaker 1: I don't have a horse, I don't have a dog,
Speaker 1: I don't have all my supplies. I'm going to get
Speaker 1: bat dung for wanna for you know, gunpowder, gunpowder, and
Speaker 1: and I'm happy. Man. I just look around and I go, wow,
Speaker 1: So there you go. We'll see We're gonna explore that
Speaker 1: a whole lot more in in the third podcast about
Speaker 1: really where this idea of how we experience wilderness as
Speaker 1: Westerners comes from. Dan and I talked about it quite
Speaker 1: a bit, but you're referring to Boone's account of being
Speaker 1: that in that first part of Kentucky Man. I thought
Speaker 1: it was fascinating that Robert Morgan saw the connection between
Speaker 1: Robinson Crusoe. That was that point clear, I mean just
Speaker 1: about how like it makes total sense that he would
Speaker 1: have done that like that, he would have he would
Speaker 1: have posed his story in the terminology, the fashion, the
Speaker 1: style of the popular thing of the period, and that
Speaker 1: people read it and thought it was true, well Robinson cruizing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: exactly because they wanted it to be true. It fit there,
Speaker 1: you know, just like you said, we wanted this and
Speaker 1: so we attached it to Daniel Boone. They read Robinson Crusoe,
Speaker 1: and of course that's true. Yea's what we Yeah, yeah, hey,
Speaker 1: Clay one one last thing, it sounded to me like
Speaker 1: there were hundreds and thousands of Daniel Boone. We just
Speaker 1: happened to pick up on this guy. That's right, Probably
Speaker 1: not hundreds of thousands. But that's the point that Steve
Speaker 1: Rinella made so well, is that, yeah, there were lots
Speaker 1: of guys doing the same stuff Boon did. And you'll
Speaker 1: hear in podcast number three spoil Alert, the first time
Speaker 1: Dan went into Kentucky, he met white guys over there.
Speaker 1: He met he met white long hunters over there, and
Speaker 1: so like he he certainly was one of the first
Speaker 1: um but wasn't the first. So there's a lot of
Speaker 1: people doing this. Um no, man, if you go back
Speaker 1: and listen to or read, you should go read. You
Speaker 1: can pull it up on the internet. You don't have
Speaker 1: to buy the book. You can pull up on the internet.
Speaker 1: John Philson's you know, type in Adventures of Colonel Daniel
Speaker 1: Boone and you can read the whole chapter in that book.
Speaker 1: And um oh did golly Philson was a good writer
Speaker 1: or Dan was a great speaker, one or the other.
Speaker 1: He said, Philocity, Okay, they use a lot of words
Speaker 1: that we're not familiar with. Pilocity. I haven't looked this up.
Speaker 1: I'm totally going off context clues. Essentially means like happiness.
Speaker 1: Somebody felicity, felicity, felicity, felicity, felicity. Yeah, somebody look up
Speaker 1: what that means. Because let's say I was right, then philosophy.
Speaker 1: Velocity is not a word, Alex, will you check these people.
Speaker 1: You've got some interesting space to pronounce things. Felicity f
Speaker 1: E L I C I T Y felicity. He okay.
Speaker 1: Boone said, felicity is intense happiness. Yeah. Yeah. Felicity is
Speaker 1: the companion of content and is found in our breast
Speaker 1: rather than an earthly treasure. He said that, and then
Speaker 1: he said at another point, he said, never before had
Speaker 1: I had greater need of philosophy and fortitude. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's good. That's a really good line. Oh it was full.
Speaker 1: I wasn't able to write it all down. I wanted
Speaker 1: to come in here and read it. But you can
Speaker 1: listen to on the podcast. Um he said. He said,
Speaker 1: he and Jon Stewart had a pleasing ramble. I'm going
Speaker 1: to use that in the future for um No, but
Speaker 1: just that was that was super fascinating to me that
Speaker 1: Boon did that. Um. I did have some people that
Speaker 1: were confused, and they would have been based upon what
Speaker 1: I presented if they had no context for it. The
Speaker 1: Cumberland Gap, there's a lot of different names. If you
Speaker 1: remember when I was in the Cumberland Gap with my boys,
Speaker 1: I called it the deer path was too, which is
Speaker 1: the Shawnee. What the Shawnee called the gap. They called
Speaker 1: it the deer path. Okay, so that's one. They also
Speaker 1: called the whole mountain range was yoto, which meant area
Speaker 1: with a bunch of deer basically, um, the warriors path.
Speaker 1: So the Cumberland Gap, if you're standing in the Cumberland
Speaker 1: Gap on a trail, you're on the Warriors Path. But
Speaker 1: the Warriors Path is a long stretch of path that
Speaker 1: connected the Iroquois Confederacy to the Cherokees and basically man
Speaker 1: there were times and seasons when they just went to war.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, September one, Tomahawks boys and they just
Speaker 1: went down to their the you know, their rivals territory
Speaker 1: and just raised Caine. I mean. So they called it
Speaker 1: the Warriors Path because that was the middle ground where
Speaker 1: where they passed through. So the other thing that it
Speaker 1: was called by white people was the Wilderness Road. So
Speaker 1: if you were standing in the Cumberland Gap, are you
Speaker 1: on the wilderness Road? Yes you are. But the Wilderness
Speaker 1: Road went from Virginia maybe even up into Pennsylvania, and
Speaker 1: went down through the Cumberland Gap and into Kentucky and
Speaker 1: then back up even into Ohio. As I understood it,
Speaker 1: so Wilderness Road Warriors Path Wasioto deer path, and it
Speaker 1: was it was later called Boone's Trace because in seventeen
Speaker 1: seventy five n went back through and was the first
Speaker 1: guy with machetes and hatchets and men, saws, horses, to
Speaker 1: cut a trail through the Cumberland Gap, and after that
Speaker 1: they called it Boone's Trace, so a lot of different names.
Speaker 1: And then the Highway se and then Highway twenty five
Speaker 1: and then why didn't they just take I forty man?
Speaker 1: I mean they could have come down like low and
Speaker 1: just miss this whole deal. So, I mean, you know, what,
Speaker 1: have you looked at it on topo mapp think about that?
Speaker 1: But as a history student, you know, I go home
Speaker 1: and study. You know, there's a lot of stuff I
Speaker 1: want to know. So you know, it's it's intriguing the
Speaker 1: way your history teaching is. It gets you really curious.
Speaker 1: I want to know how high the Cumberland Gap was
Speaker 1: compared to the rest of the mountains, how far they
Speaker 1: traveled through? You know, why didn't they go south? Why?
Speaker 1: You know, I mean the Cumberland Gap is feet in elevation,
Speaker 1: and it's it's not the highest point that's his highs
Speaker 1: mountains around here around Oh no, it's it's not. They're not. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you get the idea that like if if it was
Speaker 1: this impenetrable barrier, that it was like these huge ten
Speaker 1: thousand foot rocky mountains. Now the coume Ber the mountain
Speaker 1: I think is like in the two thousand foot range.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't just in and Robert Morgan said this.
Speaker 1: It wasn't just a physical barrier. It was a geopolitical
Speaker 1: barrier because they were in the in the accent and pronunciation,
Speaker 1: did you hear me? Pronunciation? He said they were for
Speaker 1: bad to go across the mountains. Anybody catch him saying
Speaker 1: that they were for bad? Man he pulls out some
Speaker 1: old english man. That guy is the coolest guy, one
Speaker 1: of the coolest guys I've ever met. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: so that was that was the place where they couldn't
Speaker 1: go because it was French territory and Indian territory. And
Speaker 1: so it wasn't just that it was mountains. But the
Speaker 1: other thing, when you're restricted by your feet, a horse
Speaker 1: and a wagon and carrying supplies back in there, all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, the two thousand foot mountain that runs
Speaker 1: for two hundred miles is a pretty big barrier, you know, Hey,
Speaker 1: Steve Ronilla's portion, Yeah, when Steve was talking about death
Speaker 1: and how closely acquainted the people back then where with death,
Speaker 1: And tell him the story of Daniel Boone coming back
Speaker 1: through his son's remains. I think that really stuck out
Speaker 1: to me and that was really good as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just thought I thought, it's it's it is. What
Speaker 1: he said there is that we do tend to underestimate
Speaker 1: how much death impacted these people, and you can do
Speaker 1: that either way. And I think both stories about the
Speaker 1: deaths that happened there that when he said that, when
Speaker 1: Taylor Keing said the part about imagine ninety five out
Speaker 1: of a hundred of your family members, and when Steve
Speaker 1: Ronilla kind of gave the narrative of of Daniel Boone
Speaker 1: going back and holding his son, that was I thought
Speaker 1: was really powerful and it really human I is every
Speaker 1: really humanized him. Yeah. Man, see, I finished up episode
Speaker 1: three today, so I'm thinking episode three shouldn't wait till
Speaker 1: you hear Oh man, it's it's it. It to me
Speaker 1: is my favorite one because it really humanizes Boon because
Speaker 1: we basically do clean up and tell all these stories
Speaker 1: about him. Some of it involves his family, a lot
Speaker 1: of it involves his later life, but I think it
Speaker 1: really puts a bow tie on his life and you
Speaker 1: kind of seeing him as human. And yeah, I think
Speaker 1: the part about his family, and of course I live
Speaker 1: with you. And this has sort of been plays life
Speaker 1: for a little bit now, and he's he's shared a
Speaker 1: lot of these stories. But I think it's important for
Speaker 1: people to hear about Daniel Boone the family man and
Speaker 1: what what that that that version of what y'all think
Speaker 1: about historical revision or relativism. Do you think we handled
Speaker 1: that early? Definitely? I think you handled I mean, without
Speaker 1: a doubt. It seems like even in Daniel Boone, like
Speaker 1: in the subsequent just decades right after him, revisionism was
Speaker 1: happening because they're using this mythical character that kind of
Speaker 1: became Daniel Boone to write and broadcast the narrative we
Speaker 1: gotta go west, we gotta do this. And so it's
Speaker 1: not like historical revisionism just started in the last decade.
Speaker 1: We've always been doing that. We're just maybe what about
Speaker 1: going back and looking at really bad stuff? That's that
Speaker 1: That was the point of what I was saying was
Speaker 1: that at the end of the podcast was you know,
Speaker 1: because the cancel culture of today is you find anybody
Speaker 1: that has any tarnish in there in their life and
Speaker 1: then you go cancel them. And today, if you if
Speaker 1: you did some of these egregious things. We're doing it
Speaker 1: right now. In a hundred years from now, they're going
Speaker 1: to be going can you believe what they were doing
Speaker 1: back in two thousand and twenty. I mean, look at
Speaker 1: I think, I think you'll handle it very well. But
Speaker 1: you know, to me, it's a it's but it's there's
Speaker 1: a lot of hypocrisy in that in my opinion, because
Speaker 1: it's so easy to pick on the other guy. Well,
Speaker 1: if you trace your genetics back, guess what your great, great,
Speaker 1: great great your bloodline was doing that, and if you
Speaker 1: had been there, you'd be doing the same thing. It's
Speaker 1: what I think, So you can cut that out. Well,
Speaker 1: that's that's that's just it. It's like, if you go
Speaker 1: back very far anywhere, you're gonna find egregious things because
Speaker 1: humanity has been on a track of I mean, in
Speaker 1: many ways you could say upward movement. There's some parts
Speaker 1: of the place that we've cleaned up. But we've got
Speaker 1: two girls in college now, and these are the types
Speaker 1: of conversations we've had a lot. It's our oldest was
Speaker 1: here this year and she would go into history classes
Speaker 1: and come out and we would talk about sort of
Speaker 1: the take and how the professors were handling all of
Speaker 1: all of history now because it's a tricky time to
Speaker 1: teach things. And and we talk a lot about cancel
Speaker 1: culture because I think that that that idea that we
Speaker 1: just evaluate people by their worst, the worst version of themselves,
Speaker 1: the worst aspect of themselves, and never given opportunity for recovery,
Speaker 1: which we have no choice with these people who have
Speaker 1: been dead for a hundred years. I think are as
Speaker 1: a as humans and as in our family, we want
Speaker 1: to be merciful. We want to be people because mercy
Speaker 1: has been extended to us, and so we want to
Speaker 1: always and we want our kids to have a growth
Speaker 1: mindset about life that you can always improve, and and
Speaker 1: that cancel culture really shuts that down because you are
Speaker 1: judged and and it's current. I mean, people that are
Speaker 1: living are being canceled, and some of them you know,
Speaker 1: probably deserve and should have never been famous, never should
Speaker 1: have been you know known. But but the idea that
Speaker 1: you can't people can't change is such a tragic idea
Speaker 1: and such a I mean, it hinders any actual progress
Speaker 1: or growth from happening. So I think it's a real
Speaker 1: toxic mindset, and I think that's the importance of saying,
Speaker 1: let's tell all of the story, and both stories and
Speaker 1: all sides, because you can't judge a person by one
Speaker 1: aspect of their life, and you can say that's wrong.
Speaker 1: What they did here was wrong, and in in this
Speaker 1: with what we know now, we shouldn't do that. And
Speaker 1: surely there should have been some things that people should
Speaker 1: have never done. It's fair to say that is wrong
Speaker 1: and that should have been wrong back then as well.
Speaker 1: That that being true, I think that there's a real
Speaker 1: tendency right now to just shut people, cancel people out
Speaker 1: of of history because it doesn't match your what the
Speaker 1: standards we have now. I think it's a I mean,
Speaker 1: you said you're very passionate about identity, and cancel culture
Speaker 1: is essentially a faulty way of doing I didn't. It's
Speaker 1: a very convenient way to do I didnity. I can
Speaker 1: look at a person and if anywhere in their past
Speaker 1: or any connections and there, you know, doings they have
Speaker 1: these certain things, I get to just write them off. Um,
Speaker 1: but that's a very faulty way of doing identity because
Speaker 1: all of I mean, who does not have something in
Speaker 1: their past or back to what Gary, nothing I know
Speaker 1: all about it, Oh my gosh, because it's convenient. We
Speaker 1: don't do it because it's right, and it takes out
Speaker 1: the hard work of growth, and it doesn't provide an
Speaker 1: opportunity for people to change and to say, there's no
Speaker 1: incentive I did wrong. I'm so sorry. And that's such
Speaker 1: a powerful humility, such a powerful place, and a powerful
Speaker 1: opportunity to have. The other side is that these people
Speaker 1: are they're dead. They don't have the opportunity to say
Speaker 1: wow with this new information. I realized that when you've
Speaker 1: got when you've got one book and one chapter written
Speaker 1: about you, and we're making gross assumptions about someone's life
Speaker 1: without their ability to explain, it's it's a little too easy.
Speaker 1: Even after hearing Clay's own testimony about the heart behind
Speaker 1: his rooster treatment, I'm still canceling. People change, People change. Hey,
Speaker 1: I don't do that, no more, not yet yet much.
Speaker 1: Oh well, hey, this has been really good. Guys. You
Speaker 1: know I had somebody right in and say I can't
Speaker 1: make up my mind if I love it or hate it.
Speaker 1: Every time you call him Dan during podcast, by legitimate
Speaker 1: internal controversy, you have once again polarized the nation. Oh man,
Speaker 1: gall you ain't talked about Pickles Gap. Pickles Gap, Yeah,
Speaker 1: North Conway. They got saltwater taff in chickens. Hey. The
Speaker 1: only negative thing about them rewilding the Cumberland Gap is
Speaker 1: apparently there was a real famous, cool, old uh like
Speaker 1: pit stop gas station up there somewhere right around the
Speaker 1: Cumberland Gap. That was somebody else tell me what it is.
Speaker 1: But it was like, you know, scooters or spank E's
Speaker 1: or something, and it was like a hill billy hang out.
Speaker 1: It was a story. Well, hey, good render guys. Um yeah,
Speaker 1: episode three and we're done. We're done, We're out with
Speaker 1: the half. I'm I'm grieved though, I really am, I
Speaker 1: really am. I As I wrote this last one, I
Speaker 1: just it's like I wanted to stay. I wanted to
Speaker 1: stay here, but uh what we got move on other topics. Oh,
Speaker 1: and you know what the thing is is that you
Speaker 1: can't listen to three hour and ten minute long podcasts
Speaker 1: and thank you really have the scoop on dB. We
Speaker 1: got a fourth nickname here, d. There's there's so much.
Speaker 1: There's so much, and so I hope that it catalyze
Speaker 1: people to you know, get Mr Morgan's book. And there's
Speaker 1: tons of other good. There's all the Boone biographies, you know,
Speaker 1: there's this new one. I'll mention this new one. There's
Speaker 1: one out right now by Tom Clavin, Blood and Treasure.
Speaker 1: I've got it. Uh. The John mac ferreger one is
Speaker 1: probably right behind um Boons as known as a really
Speaker 1: good one. Um. This one's brand new. This one came
Speaker 1: out just this year. But anyway, I would highly suggest though, uh,
Speaker 1: the my father Daniel Boone, the Liman Draper, papers papers Man.
Speaker 1: That now, that is when it gets real when you
Speaker 1: start reading Nathan Boone talking about his Danny. But all right, guys,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Keep the wild places wild because
Speaker 1: that's where Daniel Boone killed bears and stuff. Traveling music,
Speaker 1: please