1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,599 Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here. 2 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, 3 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for 4 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 2: the future of this show. 5 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest 6 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does 7 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else. 8 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please 9 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and 10 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 2: you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free, 11 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. 12 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent 13 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints 14 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Monday. Have an amazing 15 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:37,599 Speaker 1: show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal Dee? 16 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 1: We do. 17 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 2: There are a million things that are happening in this town, 18 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 2: including the trade war from Trump has officially started. 19 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 3: We've got tariffs in. 20 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: Place against China, Mexico, Canada, and some retaliatory tariffs coming 21 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 2: our way as well. Jeff's Dined from the Washing Post 22 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 2: is going to break all of that down for us. 23 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 2: Elon Musk has basically sees the government give you all 24 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 2: the details there as best we know and what that 25 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 2: is going to mean going forward. We've got new info 26 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 2: about that horrific plane crash here as another plane, a 27 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 2: small plane went down in Philadelphia. Still a lot of 28 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 2: questions about what occurred there as well. The Democrats have 29 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 2: elected a new leader for the DNC. We'll show you 30 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 2: what that guy is all about and what it pretends 31 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 2: for the future of that party. Tucker and Ben Shapiro 32 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 2: have gone to war trading blows, accusations, et cetera. And 33 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 2: a Haretz reporter is going to join us a break 34 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 2: down scoop that he is reporting out in advance of 35 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 2: Bbe's trip to Washington. Bb being the first foreign leader 36 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 2: who will come and visit the new Trump administration, so. 37 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 3: Lots to get to. 38 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: Lots of that actually passed some of these really delegation yesterday. 39 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: I was like, what is this large Secret Service convoy 40 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: coming in? I was like, Oh, that's right. 41 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 3: I wonder if it's on this way. 42 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 2: Brought all of his dirty clothes like he normally does, 43 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 2: all of their credible bring their laundry suit cases full 44 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 2: of their own laundry to Blair House, which is the 45 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 2: President's official guest house, so that the White House tax you. 46 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: Know, it's is that if the taxpayer doesn't pay enough 47 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: for the Israeli government, we also have to literally wash 48 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: their dirty laundry. I'm sure you could write a ton 49 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: of stories about that, but that's Crystal said. Let's get 50 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: to the tariffs. This is absolutely the most important story 51 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: both here in Washington in the global economy. President Trump 52 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: announcing it on Friday. Let's take a listen. 53 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 4: Cities that we're giving to Canada and to Mexico in 54 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 4: the form of deficits, and I'll be putting the tariff 55 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 4: of twenty five percent on Canada and separately twenty five 56 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 4: percent on Mexico. And we will really have to do 57 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 4: that because we have very big deficits with those countries. 58 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 4: Those tariffs and may or may not rise with time. 59 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: So the details of the tariffs there laid out by 60 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Let me just from the top line, it's 61 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: pretty simple. Basically, twenty five percent tariff on Canada, twenty 62 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: five percent tariff on Mexico. There is an exception for 63 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: Canadian oil, but there will be some more tariffs that 64 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: kick in on that. On February twenty third, about twenty 65 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: days from right now. Ten percent on China, and a 66 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: removal of something called deminimus. Matt Stolar will be joining 67 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: us tomorrow to break that down. But effectively, what it 68 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 1: does is it shuts down the loophole for any package 69 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: entering the United States that is under the value of 70 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: eight hundred dollars. That allows huge Amazon China sellers to 71 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: do business. It's the way that Temu, the way that 72 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: she in many of these other Chinese companies which do 73 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: direct e commerce to the United States, arguably in my opinion, 74 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: one of the most important tariffs that was put there. 75 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: But Trump also was asked here about his pledge to 76 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: reduce prices and how that may conflict with tariffs. Let's 77 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: go ahead and take a listen to that. 78 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 5: You promised Americans to try to reduce costs, and so 79 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 5: many of the products that would be tariffed when they 80 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 5: come into the country, the outgoing country is not paying 81 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 5: the tariff. The buyers in the United States pay that, 82 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 5: and then that's passed on to consumers. In most instance, 83 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 5: how would you expect to have prices come down if 84 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 5: you have such a broad plan for tariffs? And what 85 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 5: do you say to the voters who want to see 86 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 5: you reduce everyday costs. 87 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 6: Well, let me just tell you that I got elected 88 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 6: for a lot of reasons. 89 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 7: Number one was the border. 90 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 6: Number two was inflation, because I had almost no inflation, 91 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 6: and yet I charged hundreds of billions of dollars of 92 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 6: tariffs to countries. And I think of it, I had 93 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 6: almost no inflation, and I took in six hundred billion 94 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 6: dollars of money from other countries. And the tariffs don't 95 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 6: cause inflation. They caused success. It caused big success. So 96 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 6: we're going to have great success. There could be some temporary, 97 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 6: short term disruption, and people will understand that I had 98 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 6: that one. 99 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 7: I negotiated some of the good deals for the farmers. 100 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: People will understand that Trump is really betting on that. 101 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: Let's put this up there on the screen. This is 102 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: from his truth social over the weekend. The tariff lobby, 103 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: headed by the globalists, always wrong Wall Street journalists, working 104 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: hard to justify countries like Canada, Mexico, and China who 105 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: continue the decades long ripoff of America. He continues. There, 106 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: he says, make your product in the USA. There are 107 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: no tariffs. Why should the United States lose trillions of 108 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: dollars in subsidizing other countries? He talks there and says 109 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: specifically about the quote unquote pain that may arise. Will 110 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: there be some pain, yes, maybe and maybe not. So 111 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: that is the official word there from Donald Trump. He 112 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: will be speaking this morning, as I understand it, with 113 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: Mexico and Canada. These tariffs, by the way, are not 114 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: yet in effect. They go into effect tomorrow. So that's 115 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 1: where things stand right now. Crystal absolutely dizzying weekend here 116 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: in Washington. As of right now. You know, the markets 117 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: are actually having a pretty modest reaction. So we're filming 118 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: this is about seven to fifty five am. You and 119 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: I are talking S and P five hundred down by 120 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: about one point six percent. But to be honest, I 121 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,359 Speaker 1: mean that's really not much. That basically just returns it 122 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: to the value of where it was just a month ago. 123 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: Remains up to fifteen percent on the last six months, 124 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: so it's not like the markets have taken a major reaction. 125 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: Approximately thirty percent of all US goods enter from Canada 126 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: or Mexico, but they are disproportionately more important for the 127 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: Canadians and the Mexicans. About seventy five percent of goods 128 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,799 Speaker 1: from Canada come to the United States. About eighty percent 129 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: of goods from Mexico come to the United States. 130 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: So Canada, Mexico, and China are three largest trading partners. 131 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: Together they make up about forty percent of US imports. 132 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 2: The areas that will be most impact in jef Stein 133 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 2: can break this down for US as well autumn manufacturing. 134 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 2: So the estimate is that this will increase the price 135 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 2: of cars by about three thousand dollars. A huge amount 136 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 2: of produce coming in particular from Mexico. Canada we rely 137 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 2: on for a lot of building materials. Also, Trump seemingly 138 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 2: recognizing the inflationary impacts that these teriffs will have, put 139 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 2: a lower tariff on oil imports from Canada, and I 140 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 2: believe the amount is between sixty and seventy percent of 141 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 2: all of our oil imports do come from Canada. The 142 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 2: expectation is particular in the Midwest that will spike gas prices. Now, 143 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 2: there's a few things to say about what we know 144 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: from the past and what the impacts were, and also 145 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 2: about you know what it was that American people thought 146 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 2: they were voting for with Donald Trump, As he himself 147 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 2: acknowledged there one of the top reasons they voted for 148 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 2: him was because they were concerned about inflation and the 149 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 2: cost of living crisis. Almost every economist will tell you 150 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 2: these tariffs are going to raise prices. Probably the place 151 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 2: where they will be most immediately felt. 152 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 3: Is in the grocery store. 153 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 2: In terms of produce, you know, things like auto manufacturers, 154 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: because that's a longer timeline to delivery, it may take 155 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 2: a longer time period before you see those price hikes 156 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 2: go into effect. But while it is not inevitable that 157 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 2: producers pass on the cost to consumers, we know that 158 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 2: is in fact what they have largely done in the 159 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: past with regards to the terrffs put in place both 160 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 2: by Trump and Biden, you know, in Biden's term and 161 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 2: in Trump's previous term. We also know that, you know, 162 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 2: in terms of bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US, 163 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 2: Trump's tariffs in the first term, which I supported, by 164 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 2: the way, we're not actually effective at that because they 165 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 2: weren't paired with an overarching industrial policy. Biden continued those 166 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 2: tariffs and expanded them in certain markets, paired it with 167 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 2: somewhat of an industrial policy that did help to reshore 168 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 2: some jobs. The other thing that I'll say here is 169 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 2: that the justification for these is pretty confused. So Trump 170 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 2: has to put a national security justification around this, which 171 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 2: is why you talk so much about Sentinel, even though 172 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 2: you know, with regard to Canada, one percent of all 173 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 2: fentinyl comes in from the Canadian border, Like it really 174 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 2: is a preposterous excuse. 175 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 3: In terms of Canada, even in terms of Mexico. 176 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: Right. 177 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 2: A lot of the reason why the business community was 178 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 2: very comfortable with Trump this time around, and I think 179 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 2: probably even why the stock market isn't reacting even more 180 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 2: than it is, is they still see this as effectively 181 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 2: like a threat they've never really haken seriously, the rhetoric 182 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 2: that he is consistently used, saying I want across the 183 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 2: board tariffs. We're going to really rely on tariff. We're 184 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 2: going to get rid of the income tax and replace 185 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 2: it with tariffs, et cetera, et cetera. And part of 186 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 2: what they thought he would do was to use the 187 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 2: threat of tariffs to coerce behavior. Well, in fact, he 188 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 2: got some wins from Mexico already. Claudia Scheinbaum did some 189 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 2: gigantic fentanyl bust. They significantly reduced the amount of fentanyl 190 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 2: actually coming across the border in December. In anticipation of 191 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 2: Trump coming in. I think they see something like one 192 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 2: thousand pounds of fentanyl. Obviously, that's still a thousand pounds 193 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 2: too many. That is the lowest amount that we have 194 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 2: seen in quite some time. So unclear what they he 195 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 2: even wants Canada to do or what the purpose of 196 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 2: that really is. Mexico is already doing the things that 197 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 2: he wants him to do, and he's still slapping the 198 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 2: tariffs on. So the indication of the rest of the 199 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 2: world is basically like, there's nothing you can do to 200 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 2: appease this guy. You may as well either band together 201 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 2: in some sort of an alternative coalition or you know, 202 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 2: rushed more into the arms of Asia. So you know, 203 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 2: obviously I think that this is incredibly foolish, counterproductive. Is 204 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 2: just going to spike prices, is not going to increase 205 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 2: manufacturing wages or bring manufacturing back because that's not the 206 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 2: track record and prove pretty devastating to our cheoty. 207 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: I totally disagree. I'm very supportive of these tariffs, and 208 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: I'll tell you why, which is that the reason why. 209 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: First of all, look, the fentanyl thing, You're not wrong, 210 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: which is it's obviously a pretext. So there's this law 211 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: called AEPA, which affect the International Economic Emergency Powers Act, 212 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: which was passing the nineteen seventies. Allows the president to 213 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: institute immediate tariffs by going around Congress as long as 214 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: there's a national threat that exists quote solely outside of 215 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: the United States. But you know, if you look at 216 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: that tweet that he put our truth, I apologize where 217 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: he was talking about the tariffs. What did he say? 218 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: He said, we have to make your products in the USA, 219 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: and there are no tariffs. The truth is this is 220 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: again eighty percent of all goods from Mexico come to 221 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: the United States. Now seventy five percent come from Canada. 222 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: The integration of our economies for the auto market has 223 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: devastated manufacturing in the Upper Midwest area, which voted for 224 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Now, the way to accelerate that is to 225 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: renegotiate our trade agreement. The problem, yes, he did, and 226 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: it was not as good on fire we criticize. I meant, 227 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: I remember talk. 228 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 2: We're operating under the trade dis agreement that you put 229 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 2: into blanks, Moundy. 230 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 3: Or can there's a problem. It's on you. 231 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: We cannot renegotiate that until twenty twenty six, if we 232 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: stick with the current policy. However, with the current tariffs, 233 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: we can accelerate renegotiation. We don't have to wait three 234 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: years and then who knows if Congress will even fast 235 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: track it. It could take until twenty twenty seven, twenty 236 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: twenty eight to be able to get that through. This 237 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: is basically the only loophole way to immediately restart negotiations 238 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: of the USBCA, which is effectively the end goal. So 239 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: everyone keeps saying that, and I do want to take 240 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: an opportunity here to dunk on the UAW, who I 241 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: think is acting incredibly foolishly A seven. Can we please 242 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,319 Speaker 1: put that up there on the screen, you know. UAW 243 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: President Sean Fain put out the statement UAW supports aggressive 244 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: teriff faction to protect American manufacturing as a good first 245 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: step to undoing decades of anti worker trade policy. We 246 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: do not support using factory workers as pawns in a 247 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 1: fight over immigration or drug policy. I mean, look, I'm 248 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: an idiot, and I can find out very easily that 249 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: AEPA tariffs are not actually just about immigration or drug policy. 250 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 3: I mean, that's how Trump selling. 251 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: But you have to do it. It's justification. So second, 252 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: he goes, if Trump is serious about bringing back blue 253 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: collar jobs destroyed by NAF, they should do a step 254 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: further and immediately seek to renegotiate our broken trade deals again. 255 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: You literally yesterday they put out a statement saying they 256 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: want to accelerate renegotiation of USMCA. So it sounds like 257 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 1: to me, mister Faine and others would like for pretty 258 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: little words not to include immigration and drug policy. And 259 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: it's like, look, guys, it's not pretty, it's not you know, 260 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: it's not all bow tide, and it's not all process. 261 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: But if you actually want to restore a trade imbalance, 262 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: the only way is to slap terraffs on our largest 263 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: trading partners, to force and compel different behavior, and to 264 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: reset rules that actually are good for the American economy. Now, 265 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: I'm not going to sit here and deny I'm not 266 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: one of those Biden spending egg price or you know people. 267 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:20,439 Speaker 1: I don't think i've ever been. 268 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 2: You said an entire monologue about egg prices under Bido. 269 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: No, but I did not say that it was because 270 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: of his spending. I said it was bad. I certainly agree. 271 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 2: Now is it going to be bad now? When produce 272 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 2: prices spike is. 273 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: Like, I don't think it's a good I don't think 274 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: it's done scouging segments. I don't think it's. 275 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 2: A bad idea too, if you have a strategic industry 276 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 2: like the auto industry, right, and this was the focus 277 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 2: of the you know, some of the Biden administration terrorists 278 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,839 Speaker 2: in particular to protect the domestic ev auto industry because 279 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 2: the truth of the matter is China's kicking our ass 280 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 2: there and if we didn't have have tariffs on Chinese cars, 281 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 2: we would have no domestic ev auto industry. Effectively, I 282 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 2: think that makes sense. Putting tariffs on building materials, on oil, 283 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 2: on avocados, on tomatoes. 284 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: Like why, because that's why. 285 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 2: The only thing you do, the only thing you do 286 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 2: with that is increase prices for consumers and cause countries 287 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 2: around the world to go like, these people are insane. 288 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 2: There's nothing we can do to appease this guy. So no, 289 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 2: I think this makes no sense. I think it is 290 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 2: directly counter to what the American people thought that they 291 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 2: were voting for. Now you can say, like, yes, he 292 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 2: was out there talking about his care full time, but 293 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 2: his tariff policy, when you pull it it has actually 294 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 2: never been popular, which is surprising to me, to be 295 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 2: honest with you, I thought it would be more popular. 296 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 2: Has never been more popular, And the number one reason 297 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 2: that people said they were voting for Trump was to 298 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 2: bring prices down. This is the polar opposite of that. 299 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 2: So listen, I think that this is foolish. I think 300 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 2: it will be economically catastrophic. I do not think it 301 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 2: will accomplish any of the things that he thinks. I 302 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 2: don't even know I know what he thinks is going 303 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 2: to accomplish, because again, the rationale for this has been 304 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 2: completely confused and all over the map, and the idea 305 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 2: that it has anything to do with like fentanel coming 306 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 2: out of Canada is utterly propriable. 307 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: It's a legal pretext. It's the only way that you 308 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: can institute the tariffs. Look, we have Jeff Stein standing by, 309 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: who actually broke the news on a lot of this, 310 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: so we can continue our debate. After we talked to him, 311 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: Why don't we go ahead and bring him in joining 312 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: us now? Is friend of the show, Jeff Stein from 313 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: the Washington Post. He's broken a ton of news on 314 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: this topic, and we're it's great to talk to him. 315 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 7: Good to see you, man, Hey, Thanks edgre Thanks thanks for. 316 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: So Jeff, there's a lot of discussion now here in Washington. 317 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: You've been in the camp always that the tariff threat 318 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: was real. Let's go and put this up there on 319 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: the screen from Axios A five. Please about the average 320 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: cost that the US household could get hit with some 321 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: eight hundred and thirty dollars as a result of these tariffs. 322 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: Could you go ahead and break down for us of 323 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: what we know right now about the institution, whether they'll 324 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: actually go into effect, some negotiation, other and other things 325 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: that you're hearing. 326 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 8: So the executive order is that the President's sign does 327 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 8: order you know, twenty five percent across the board tariffs 328 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 8: on Mexico and Canadad. No exceptions except for I guess 329 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 8: one exception of energy, which is at ten percent, I believe, 330 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 8: and that is moving ahead as far as we can tell. 331 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 8: As you said, stag Aright, every point of this process, 332 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 8: someone has said this is a bluff, this is a 333 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 8: negotiating tactic, this. 334 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 7: Is a way to get extra y. 335 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 8: And you know, every person I've spoken to who has 336 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 8: spoken directly to the president says that he says like, no, 337 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 8: this is not a negotiating tactic. 338 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 7: This is not a ploy. This is like what I believe. 339 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 8: And you know, I was listening to your guys like 340 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 8: debate about sort of the efficacy or the benefits of this, 341 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 8: which I think captured sort of like the broader debate 342 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 8: very well. The thing that has bothered me throughout this 343 00:16:55,720 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 8: whole discussion is that there's a segment of people, particularly 344 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 8: on Wall Street, who have been saying, like, he doesn't 345 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 8: mean this right, And it's just like, what do you 346 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 8: want him to do to prove that he does? Like 347 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 8: he basically just like ripped his shirt off and like 348 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 8: wrote tariffs like on his chest and like campaigned on 349 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 8: that throughout the country. 350 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 7: Like it was impossible to. 351 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 8: More seriously embrace this idea than Trump did in the 352 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 8: twenty twenty four presidential campaign. I was talking last week 353 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 8: to a Republican senator. I'm gonna preserve his anonymity here, 354 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 8: and I said, you know, like what's gonna happen with 355 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 8: the tariffs? 356 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 7: And the senator said to. 357 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 8: Me, like, like I have been begging him to not 358 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 8: do this, Like I'm he's in a state that's like 359 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 8: very dependent on trade with Canada. I was like, so, 360 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 8: what does that conversation. Look like he was, like I 361 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 8: spoke to the president for two hours. All he wanted 362 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 8: to talk about was how great William McKinley was. That 363 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 8: is not like someone who's like using this as negotiating. 364 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 8: That's someone who like is thinking about his legacy, thinking 365 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 8: about like sort of these huge questions about the ordering 366 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 8: of the American economy and trying and is determined to 367 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 8: go there regardless of the people in his orbit. So 368 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 8: I just feel like, like, you can be for the tariffs, 369 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 8: you can be not for the tariffs, but. 370 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 7: Like pick one. 371 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 8: Yeah, like this like like the superimposed quantum state of 372 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 8: like I'm not for the terroiffs, but I'm for Trump's 373 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 8: economic policy is like increasingly untenable. 374 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's like the Tea Party current position on the tariffs. 375 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 2: Well, and so people understand McKinley. When McKinley was in office, 376 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 2: First of all, huge amount of federal government was wildly 377 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 2: smaller than it is now. Huge amount of revenues came 378 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 2: from tariffs. This was before there was even an income tax, 379 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 2: which is something else that Trump has floated, maybe not 380 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: as consistently as a huge tariff regime, but he has 381 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 2: floated we're going to substitute in tariffs for the income tax, 382 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 2: which you know, I mean what a tariff's right now 383 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 2: makeup as a percent of federal revenue. It's like minuscule. 384 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 2: It's a rounding error effectively. Yeah, so this would be 385 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 2: I mean, it's impossible to imagine that such a thing 386 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 2: could happen with the you know, modern country and modern 387 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 2: federal government as it exists. What do you make in 388 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 2: the market reaction so far this morning, Jeff, Because it 389 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 2: seems like there may still be baked in a little 390 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 2: bit like yeah, sure, okay, he's doing these across the 391 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 2: board TIFFs, but he's talking to these leaders today like he's. 392 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 3: Not really going to go forward with this, right. 393 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 8: I do think the markets continue to discount the severity 394 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 8: of this. And also Trump has been talking about, you know, 395 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 8: he campaigned on universal across the world tariffs, and I 396 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 8: see no reason to think that Mexico and Canada will 397 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,479 Speaker 8: be the last countries he slops tariffs. I mean, if 398 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,360 Speaker 8: you follow the economic logic of getting Mexico in Canada 399 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 8: to its conclusion, why not do it to all of Europe, 400 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 8: in all of China, and all of India and all 401 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 8: of etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. I mean, I think 402 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 8: I don't know, there's a lot of different angles here 403 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 8: obviously that are really important to discuss. I mean, Canada 404 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 8: is not the reason that the Midwest has lost its 405 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 8: manufacturing base. I mean, the most articulate, strident critics of 406 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 8: NAFTA would not identify in Canadian labor practices the source 407 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 8: of the long decline in American manufacturing was just like 408 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 8: like nobody would say that, Like none of the people 409 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 8: who like won the intellectual rounding for Trump's push on trade. 410 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,479 Speaker 8: Like there are people obviously, like Michael Pettis and you know, 411 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 8: like here Navar, like people in that orbit. You know, 412 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 8: like they they have like a very coherent sort of 413 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 8: explanation about like how NAFTA and the opening of China 414 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 8: like sort of American trade practices led to the destruction 415 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 8: of the American you know class and sort of blue 416 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 8: collar jobs, you know, blue college jobs in Michigan, et cetera. 417 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 8: But no one would say that Canada was responsible for 418 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 8: any of that because it's just it's just not it's 419 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 8: like non responsive to like the issue. So you know, 420 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 8: if they want to go after China or they want 421 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 8: to go after particular sets of of sectors. But you know, 422 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 8: it's like the democratic responses is still so confusing and 423 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 8: weird because it's like, oh, we like them in some cases, 424 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 8: not all on HLULA, and I think that's a very 425 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 8: confusing message to people. 426 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's interesting as well. Whenever we're talking 427 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,360 Speaker 1: here in the broader context of some of these tariffs. 428 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 1: Some of the things you've also tracked is the legal response. 429 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: So as I understand it, this will almost certainly come 430 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: under juris like under scrutiny from the courts. 431 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 2: Uh. 432 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: These AIPA type tariffs have been used sparingly in the past, 433 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 1: and consumer groups and others are likely to sue. What 434 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: do you think, how do you think that will proceed 435 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: through the federal court system? Considering what just happened with 436 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: the OMB funding. 437 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 8: I actually think the Supreme Court is quite likely to 438 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 8: defer to President Trump's authority here. AIPA, as you mentioned, 439 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 8: is typically you know, this nineteen seventy seven law is 440 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 8: typically used as the basis for economic sanctions. 441 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 7: And even though. 442 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,479 Speaker 8: The Constitution is quite clear in Medicle two that the 443 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 8: Congress has the power to levy taxes there are huge. 444 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 8: There's a huge amount of difference from the court to 445 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 8: the executive branch in matters of national security, and that's 446 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 8: what they're citing here, with defence and all and other things. 447 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 7: So typically, I mean, even. 448 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 8: I've reported, as you guys have me on about economic 449 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 8: sanctions a lot, typically the courts have barely interfered with 450 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 8: that at all. So I actually think the court challenge 451 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 8: is unlikely to be successful. 452 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 2: Jeff, what can people expect in terms of assuming that 453 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,880 Speaker 2: this terror regime goes forward and retaliatory tariffs are levied 454 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 2: from Canada, China and Mexico as have been threatened. What 455 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 2: do you think that people can expect in terms of 456 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 2: impact on their day to day lives. 457 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 8: I mean, I think the macroeconomics here are a little 458 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 8: more complicated than people realize. There is you know that 459 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 8: the Trump people I've been speaking to have been arguing, 460 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 8: not on persuasively, that that currency markets will shift such 461 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 8: that you'll see, you know, the overall prices that you 462 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 8: see at the grocery store may not look you. 463 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 7: Know, dramatically higher one day. 464 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 8: That might happen, you know, I think there's reasonably that, 465 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 8: but there's there's a potential for the sort of the 466 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 8: through line for the cow this actually gets implemented and 467 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 8: actually effectuate in the economy or instead of price appreciation, 468 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 8: sort of changes in currency valuation between the pesto and 469 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 8: US in Canada, and that that might depress our purchasing 470 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 8: power but not necessarily lead to sticker shock at the 471 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 8: grocery store. So people might get horror and not see 472 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 8: the visible impact that they're sort of a custom that 473 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 8: they that they are being primed to see. 474 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 7: Now, which is I think a bit of a danger 475 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 7: for Democrats that they. 476 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,360 Speaker 8: Warren pricex price x pricex price prices and then there's 477 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 8: this more nuance, still very damaging, but more nuanced effect. 478 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 8: I'll just say, like, imagine a Democrat in office doing this. 479 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 8: This is like the biggest taxike, if you want to 480 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 8: call it Teforot taxic, which I think most economists would 481 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 8: the biggest tax hike in decades, I mean close to 482 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 8: a century. More than a trillion dollars worth of stuff 483 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 8: is going to be taxed at twenty five percent. I mean, 484 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 8: is imagine Barack Obama being like, We're going to do 485 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 8: like a trillion dollars on taxes on everything. It's like 486 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 8: it's an incredible, you know thing that that democrat could 487 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 8: never touch with a twenty foot pole. 488 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 1: Well, without getting too crazy, can you just modestly try 489 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 1: and explain some of those currency things, because that's going 490 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: to be a big point of contention. So the peso 491 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: and the Canadian dollar a free fall of this morning, 492 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: the part purchasing power of the dollar, the dollar is 493 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,120 Speaker 1: becoming stronger as a result. Just get into a little 494 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: bit of that so that I don't have to do it. 495 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: And so if that we can prime everybody for this 496 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 1: conversation in the month's head. 497 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 8: You know, I haven't covered this in a couple of weeks, 498 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 8: but my understanding basically is that if the purchasing power 499 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 8: of the US consumer is basically like depressed by the 500 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 8: the tariffs. Basically, if the tariffs make things so that 501 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 8: there's there's you know, each each import is more expensive, 502 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 8: it's possible that the prices of goods for stuff in 503 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 8: the US falls, Right, like the purchase the purchasing power 504 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 8: of a consumer stay is constant, but it gets more 505 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 8: expensive for the imported goods. Right, then the ability of 506 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 8: the US consumer to spend the prices for other things 507 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 8: because there's more demand and supply for the out standing 508 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 8: things that are coming into the country or are being 509 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 8: produced domestically will go down. So there's there's going to 510 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 8: be some substitution effect for the effect of the terraff overall. 511 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 8: Because the basket of goods is smaller than it would 512 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 8: be in a non tariff world, the sort of like 513 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 8: the overall economic benefit that each consumer gets will be smaller, 514 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 8: but because of the substitution effect, it might be a 515 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 8: little hard to detect. 516 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 7: That. Does that make sense? 517 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, that's a better explanation that I would have winn. 518 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,679 Speaker 7: I was kind of rewilling that like midway through that. 519 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 7: I don't know. 520 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: You did a good job. Otherwise I'm just gonna have 521 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: to read from Claude or chech Empyta. 522 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 3: So yeah, I'd rather for Jeff. 523 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, we prefer the job Jeff. 524 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 2: One last thing just before we let you go, because 525 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 2: this will preview our next segment as well. You also 526 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 2: had a big scoop with regard to Elon and his 527 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 2: acolytes seizing control of Treasury payment system. Can you talk 528 00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 2: just a little bit top line about that news you're 529 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 2: able to break as well? 530 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, this is what I've been focused on 531 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 7: a lot. 532 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 8: You know, the senior most career official at the Treasure 533 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 8: Department was told by allies or sort of deputies of 534 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 8: Elon Musk to hand over the sort of system responsible 535 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 8: for dispersing six trillion dollars of payments medicare, so security, 536 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 8: basically everything that the our government does. And this guy said, 537 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 8: you know, you don't have legal authority essentially to access that, 538 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:35,919 Speaker 8: and the Musk people effectively pushed him out. He was 539 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 8: he went on leave and resigned on Friday. And now 540 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 8: we reported on Saturday that these Musk people now have 541 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 8: access to this system. And the Trump administration has been 542 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 8: very clear that it intends to massively kind to exert 543 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 8: unilateral authority to shut down payments approved by Congress. And 544 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 8: what the Musk people will do with that information is 545 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 8: anyone's guest really? 546 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 1: All right? 547 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 3: All right, Jeff, Well, thank you so much. 548 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,439 Speaker 2: I know you got to run because you've got eighteen 549 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 2: other stories that you need to you need to break. 550 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 3: This morning. 551 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 2: So great to see you. Thank you so much as 552 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 2: always for your time. You just so as we just 553 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 2: previewed with Jeff Stein, who originally broke this story Elon 554 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 2: Musk and as acolytes have effectively seized the Treasury Department, 555 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 2: and they have control over all of the payments that 556 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,919 Speaker 2: go out from the federal government, along with seizing various 557 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 2: other agencies that we'll get to in a moment. Let's 558 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 2: go and put Jeff's reporting here up on the screen 559 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 2: from the Washington Post. He says, Scoop the highest ranking 560 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 2: Chargery officials expected to depart soon, and that has now 561 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 2: happened after a clash with Elon Musk allies over their 562 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 2: demands for access to a sensitive internal government payment system. 563 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 2: Musk allies wanted access to that system, responsible for dispersing 564 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 2: trillions in federal government payments annually as part of dog 565 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,959 Speaker 2: Treasury career. Staff saw the request, as he puts it, 566 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 2: highly unusual. David Lebrick viewed internally as consummate non political 567 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 2: civil servant expected to exit after joining Treasury in nineteen 568 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 2: eighty nine. Last week he was acting Treasury Secretary. And 569 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 2: the update there is now Musk has, in fact, in 570 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 2: his aporojects allies whatever you want to call him, have 571 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 2: been given access to that Treasury payment system. 572 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 3: Now. 573 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 2: Just to explain to people how this works, all of 574 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 2: the money, Social Security payments, Medicare payments, veterans benefits, all 575 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 2: of the money that goes out from the federal government 576 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 2: is dispersed by this system. Treasury officials have no authority 577 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 2: to pick and choose which of these payments go out, because, 578 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 2: as we all know from Constitution one oh one, Congress 579 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 2: has the power of the purse. They appropriate the funds, 580 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 2: and so this system is really just about executing on 581 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 2: the payments that have already been congressionally authorized. So that's 582 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 2: why that's one of the reasons why this is such 583 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 2: a big deal. The other reason why this is such 584 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 2: a big deal is Elon Musk is not President of 585 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 2: the United States. 586 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 3: No one voted for this guy. 587 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 2: He hasn't been confirmed for any sort of a Senate position, 588 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 2: and now he and his acolytes have access to all 589 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 2: of this incredibly sensitive information. Also, Elon Musk being the 590 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 2: richest man in the world, having his own massive government 591 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 2: contracts and conflicts of interest, since he is not in 592 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 2: a Senate confirmed position, he has not mitigated any of 593 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 2: those conflicts of interest, and we can put the next 594 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 2: piece up on the screen. He at least claims that 595 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 2: he is using this access to shut down payments that he. 596 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 3: Does not like. 597 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 2: Now, this is based on Mike Flynn, former General Mike Flynn, 598 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 2: who tweeted out, oh, the Lutheran Faith is using this money. 599 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 2: They receive massive amounts of taxpayer dollars, with the indication 600 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 2: being that they're using it for money laundering and human trafficking. 601 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 2: Most of this money actually goes for things like it's 602 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 2: like Medicaid block grants. It goes for things like head 603 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 2: Start and meals on wheels and domestic violence addiction services, 604 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 2: those sorts of things. But whether or not you think 605 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 2: that this organization is good, bad, and different, the bottom 606 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 2: line is it's not up to Elon Musk or General 607 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 2: Mike Flynn to decide whether or not these payments go out. 608 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 3: So that's peace. 609 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 2: Number one is the Treasury. Peace number two. Can put 610 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 2: B three up on the screen. 611 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 3: Here. 612 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 2: This is the Office of Personnel Management, basically the HR 613 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 2: department for the entire federal government. Here you also have 614 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 2: Musk aids locking out career workers from this Office of 615 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 2: Personnel Management system. 616 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 3: I'll go ahead and read this to you. They say 617 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 3: aids to. 618 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 2: Elon mus charge with running the US government Human Resources Agency, 619 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 2: have locked career civil servants out of computer systems that 620 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 2: contain the personal data of millions of federal employees. Those 621 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 2: systems include a vast database called Enterprise Human Resources Integration, 622 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 2: which contains states of birth, social security numbers, appraisals, home addresses, 623 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 2: pay grades, and length of service of government workers. 624 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 3: Quote. 625 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 2: We have no visibility into what they are doing with 626 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 2: the computer data systems. That is creating great concern. There 627 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 2: is no oversight. It creates real cybersecurity in hacking implications. 628 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 2: Next piece before the General Services Administration. Elon Musk's allies 629 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 2: have infiltrated that agency as well, and they're looking for 630 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 2: ways That's sort of like it's almost like the operations 631 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 2: managers of the government looking for ways to use White 632 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 2: House credentials to access agency tech, potentially allowing them to 633 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 2: remote into laptops, read emails, and war sources say. I 634 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 2: will pause from it before we get into what is 635 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 2: the latest with regard to the USAID, which Musk has 636 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 2: said he's been feeding into a wood chipper again, how 637 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 2: we feel about that agency. That's up to Congress to 638 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 2: decide whether or not we're going to eliminate various federal 639 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 2: government agencies, not a man who no one voted for 640 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 2: and has no Senate confirmed position or power. So I 641 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 2: sagram and trying to grapple with what all. 642 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 3: This means, how to describe it. 643 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 2: I think it is somewhere beyond a constitutional crisis. 644 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 3: I think it is. 645 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 2: Probably short of a coup, given that he doesn't, as 646 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 2: far as I know, have control of the military. 647 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 3: But that's the kind of territory we're. 648 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 2: Getting into when you have one guy, richest man on 649 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 2: the planet, not elected, no Senate confirmed position, who has 650 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 2: seized control of the payment system, all of the federal 651 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 2: government's sensitive data. Is you know, deciding willy nilly what 652 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 2: payments should go out and what shouldn't, what agencies should 653 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 2: exist and shouldn't, And has you know, effectively done this 654 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 2: and sees this with this handful of like twenty year 655 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 2: old kids, with as far as I can tell, very 656 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 2: little pushback. 657 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: In principle, it's obviously insane, and I know that there 658 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: are a lot of Doze fanboys and others who are 659 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,320 Speaker 1: out there, but this very much falls in the territory 660 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: of their unilateralism. And in fact, you also you know, 661 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: even my friend Ryan Grdusky made a good point. He's like, Look, 662 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: let's say there's a guy who made all of his 663 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: money based in large part to some federal government policy. 664 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: He's like, should we really give him reins over the 665 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,279 Speaker 1: federal government? This is where I really depart with a 666 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 1: lot of my Silicon Valley tech right friends, Even though 667 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 1: in principle, you know, I may not disagree with, you know, 668 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,279 Speaker 1: getting rid of USAID or whatever, as long if it's 669 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 1: gone through at least somewhat of a more democratic process, 670 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: Like it'd be better for me if the Secretary of 671 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: State were doing it or the president, you know, people 672 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: who are elected confirmed by the United States Senate. Their theory, 673 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: as I understand it, is that they're trying to invite 674 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 1: a lawsuit under the Impoundment and Act that we had 675 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: talked about previously. What they're trying to do is to 676 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: stretch things as much as possible in terms of control 677 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 1: before legal challenges can come and kick in, and under 678 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: impoundment trying to basically challenge what we talked about previously, 679 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 1: that principle where the federal government is not required to 680 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: stick with this and that said, though there is a 681 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: decent amount of executive authority that the president can have 682 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: in disbursement of payment specifically, again, as I understand, is 683 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: around enngos, which because that comes down to like administrative 684 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: judgment for disbursement of funds. So Congress might adjudication might 685 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 1: appropriate x millions of dollars for like you were talking 686 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: about meals on wheels, like paying for the home, that 687 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: the administrators themselves can decide for whom to disperse the contract. 688 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: So I was looking into the legal justification for that 689 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: a bit, and that seems to be the ground that 690 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 1: they're found there standing on on top of trying to 691 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: invite a challenge for impoundment to fast track into the 692 00:35:59,000 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: Supreme Court. 693 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 2: I mean, it is, as far as I can tell, 694 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 2: brazenly illegal for this random dude with you know, no 695 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 2: electoral mandate, no congressional mandate, no mandate whatsoever, to just 696 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 2: go in and be like I don't like what this, 697 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 2: I don't like this appropriation. 698 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,359 Speaker 3: We're not going to push this one out. 699 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,319 Speaker 2: I mean, this is you know, it's it's clearcut not 700 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 2: just separation of powers. But it'd be one thing if 701 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 2: it was the president, if there was any transparency around 702 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 2: this whatsoever. I mean, even that I think is blatantly 703 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 2: unconstitutional but heat has effectively made Congress completely irrelevant. Like 704 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 2: right now, it wouldn't matter even if Democrats had won 705 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 2: the House of the Set or whatever, like, Congress is 706 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,879 Speaker 2: now irrelevant even if whatever they pass, if Elon Musk 707 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:50,799 Speaker 2: can just come in and be like, no, I don't 708 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 2: like that. Not doing that, that is as like clearly 709 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,839 Speaker 2: unconstitutional as it could possibly get. And so you know 710 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 2: it to me, I think you would say, probably sagre 711 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 2: that I was fairly alarmist in the in advance of 712 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 2: Trump getting elected. Yeah, you know, I think he's an authoritarian. 713 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 3: I think he's fascist. 714 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 2: I was deeply concerned about the things that he had 715 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 2: announced that he had planned to do. This is beyond 716 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 2: what I could have anticipated. And it's really the Musk 717 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,799 Speaker 2: Elon Musk factor that I did not weigh in, Like, 718 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 2: I did not anticipate that in week two we'd be 719 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 2: talking about the richest man on the planet having effectively 720 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:37,840 Speaker 2: seized the government with basically no resistance. And so you know, 721 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 2: I knew that there were basically no guardrails in place anymore. 722 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,280 Speaker 2: You know, the Supreme Court has given Trump a pretty 723 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,320 Speaker 2: blanket immunity for anything that's remotely connected to the job. 724 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 2: Any sort of Republican opposition has been by and large 725 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 2: pretty much vanquished, you know, any of the sort of 726 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 2: career civil servants or the type of like the General 727 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 2: Millies or the type of more establishment folks who were 728 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,760 Speaker 2: interested in maintaining the institutions like they've all been excise. 729 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 2: I knew all of this going in. I did not 730 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 2: have the creativity to imagine the richest man on the 731 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:14,359 Speaker 2: planet seizing control of the government in week number two. 732 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 2: Could not see that one particularly coming. And so you 733 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:23,919 Speaker 2: know the fact that there's been next to no institutional 734 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 2: pushback you have. You know, the media is a mess, 735 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 2: The Democratic Party is like basically why do they even 736 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 2: exist at this point? Yeah, I don't know where this goes, 737 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 2: and I don't know how it ends. And even the 738 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,360 Speaker 2: idea like okay, they want to push for this impoundment control, 739 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 2: you know, legal fight or whatever. Jadie Vance came out 740 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:43,879 Speaker 2: and was like, yeah, and if we get a court 741 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 2: ruling that we don't like, we'll be like Andrew Jackson, 742 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:48,759 Speaker 2: go ahead and enforce it with your army. So I 743 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,399 Speaker 2: don't have any confidence that they're gonna abide by any 744 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,800 Speaker 2: legal rulings that would come down against some They seem 745 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 2: dead set and Elon seems dead set on doing whatever 746 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 2: Elon Musk wants to do, and the rest of us 747 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 2: are irrelevant. We just get to stand by and watch. So, 748 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,240 Speaker 2: you know, I'm sort of cheering for Trump and Elon 749 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:12,919 Speaker 2: to have some sort of falling out and for Trump, 750 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 2: who at least is duly elected present in the United States, 751 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,759 Speaker 2: to reassert some control over the government. So far, the 752 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,240 Speaker 2: indications in that direction are not great, given that Trump 753 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 2: is out tweeting talking points seemingly directly from Elon Musk 754 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 2: about South African land appropriation and saying that you know, 755 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:35,320 Speaker 2: he's gonna he's gonna stop sending aid to South Africa 756 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,360 Speaker 2: because of this, you know law that they passed in 757 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 2: their own country. In addition to all of this, I 758 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:43,800 Speaker 2: mentioned the USAID stuff, So let me go through that 759 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,400 Speaker 2: as well. Let's go ahead and we can just go 760 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 2: through an order here B five. This was the first piece, 761 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 2: so CNN reported that senior USAID security officials were put 762 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,760 Speaker 2: on leave after physically trying to refuse Musk's doge access 763 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:03,840 Speaker 2: to agency systems. Must cronies threatened to call US marshals 764 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 2: to be allowed access to USAID they wanted to gain 765 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 2: access to security systems and personnel files, the resources said. 766 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,279 Speaker 2: Two of those sources also said that dough personnel wanted 767 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,360 Speaker 2: access to classified information, which only those with security clearances 768 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 2: and a specific need to know are able to access. 769 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 2: On Sunday, in response to c AND's report about the incident, 770 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 2: Musk said that USAID is a criminal organization. Time for 771 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 2: it to die. Their account, their Twitter account has been 772 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,840 Speaker 2: taken down. Their website has been taken down as well. 773 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,800 Speaker 2: We can put let's put B eight up on the 774 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 2: screen here because this is the very latest. USAID staffers 775 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,839 Speaker 2: were told to stay out of Washington headquarters after Musk 776 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 2: said that Trump agreed to close it. Now USAID it's 777 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 2: effectively a tool of US soft power. There are all 778 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 2: sorts of things that USAID does that are like democracy 779 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 2: meddling that I in no way support. USAID does also 780 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,920 Speaker 2: run some really critical programs, life saving programs, things like 781 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:11,880 Speaker 2: pet far things like you know, tackling malaria in developing countries, 782 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,439 Speaker 2: so they do some good as well. It really doesn't 783 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,960 Speaker 2: matter how you feel about this agency. The truth of 784 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,320 Speaker 2: the matter is it is not up to Elon Musk 785 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 2: or Donald Trump. To just say we're done with this. 786 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:27,320 Speaker 2: This also clearly has to go through Congress. You do not, 787 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 2: as the richest man on the planet, have a right 788 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 2: to just pick and choose which federal government agencies you 789 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 2: like and which you don't. Guess what, the people's elected 790 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,200 Speaker 2: representatives get to have a say and input into this. 791 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 3: So this is where we are this morning. 792 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,440 Speaker 2: Effectively, you know, a hostile takeover from the US government 793 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,480 Speaker 2: of the US government, buy Elon Musk and incredibly, you 794 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,800 Speaker 2: know this would be bad from anyone, right, I promise 795 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 2: you I would be saying the same thing if it 796 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 2: was Bill Gates or George Soros, and I promise you 797 00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 2: Republicans would have a big problem with it if it 798 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,800 Speaker 2: was George Soros who had seized control of the Treasury 799 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:07,239 Speaker 2: Department system and was randomly shuttering agencies US government agencies 800 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 2: that he happened to not like for whatever ideological and 801 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,359 Speaker 2: self interested reasons. So to me, this is an incredibly 802 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 2: I don't even know what words to put it. Like 803 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:21,239 Speaker 2: I said before, way beyond constitutional crisis. Probably not quite 804 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 2: at coup because the military is still under control by 805 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,280 Speaker 2: Donald Trump, but we're somewhere in that range. 806 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,839 Speaker 1: Here's what okay, on usaid, And this is where I mean, 807 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,080 Speaker 1: this is why the constitutional crisis thing is like not 808 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 1: technically accurate. It's been authorized by Congress, but nobody says 809 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,160 Speaker 1: that it has to be an existing agency of the government. 810 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 1: If you fold it into the State Department, which is 811 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 1: what they said that they did, and the programs can 812 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 1: still disperse money. 813 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,759 Speaker 2: He's feeding it into a windshipper, yes, but if he's 814 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,000 Speaker 2: not folding it under. 815 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,720 Speaker 1: The umbrella or from the USA. 816 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,799 Speaker 2: To show up and seizing control of the systems. This 817 00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:58,720 Speaker 2: isn't like, oh, we're going to do a little reform. 818 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,680 Speaker 2: It's just we're getting this. This is we think it's 819 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,160 Speaker 2: bad and evil in a criminal organization. 820 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: But this is what I'm getting at is that if 821 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,520 Speaker 1: you fold it under the State Department, that's actually totally 822 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,000 Speaker 1: within the executive authority of the president. Coming back to this, 823 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 1: and this is actually what I've been thinking about a 824 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 1: lot too. Here is I don't support Elon or any 825 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,759 Speaker 1: person being able to do this, but I think the 826 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,839 Speaker 1: lack of institutional pushback is because I think there was 827 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,560 Speaker 1: actually a broad support for this type of burn shit down. 828 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,160 Speaker 1: I'm not just talking about fig No. I see this 829 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,800 Speaker 1: is where I totally disagree when people do not push 830 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,440 Speaker 1: the red button for Trump popular vote without some serious 831 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:36,200 Speaker 1: shit going wrong. 832 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,160 Speaker 2: When did anyone, when did anyone even mention on the 833 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,240 Speaker 2: campaign trill like we're going to get rid of USA? 834 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,960 Speaker 2: I d Trump is never Trump has never run as 835 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:46,160 Speaker 2: an austerity politician. 836 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,759 Speaker 1: You know that this is not, of course it is 837 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,080 Speaker 1: it's ero point seven percent of the federal budget, like 838 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,400 Speaker 1: you said, fomenting cous in Africa. 839 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,960 Speaker 3: But I'm not just talking about the ID. 840 00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:01,080 Speaker 2: I'm talking about Elon's whole of government seizure. 841 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,360 Speaker 3: This He is a Javier Malay style in arco capitalist. 842 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,440 Speaker 2: He wants to take a massive hatchet to the federal 843 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,359 Speaker 2: government so that it is completely impotent and weak and 844 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,640 Speaker 2: can't stand up against him or any other robber baron 845 00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:15,480 Speaker 2: corporate titan. 846 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,720 Speaker 3: That is his goal. That has never been the Trump approach. 847 00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 2: And I can't believe him here like cheering for Donald 848 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:26,400 Speaker 2: Trump to reassert his ideology. But I actually am in 849 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:31,279 Speaker 2: this case because this is not remotely what people voted for. 850 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:36,520 Speaker 2: Who Greenland wasn't mentioned in the You know, Gusaid wasn't 851 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,560 Speaker 2: mentioned in the campaign. Going to war with Canada wasn't 852 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,719 Speaker 2: mentioned in none of this economic war, none that was 853 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 2: much of this, None of this like austerity, anarcho capitalists, 854 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 2: slash and burn. He made a campaign on any of this. 855 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,759 Speaker 2: He certainly didn't campaign on. He certainly didn't campaign on 856 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,520 Speaker 2: I'm going to allow Elon Musk total and complete control 857 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,600 Speaker 2: of the government. That was ever part of the campaign pledge. 858 00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 2: And you see people don't like it because Elon musk 859 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,920 Speaker 2: approval rating has plummeted. Doge's approval rating is like twenty 860 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,960 Speaker 2: nine percent. People are not excited about this direction that 861 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,640 Speaker 2: they're going in whatsoever. They were upset about gas prices, 862 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 2: they were upset about costs of living, they were upset 863 00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,560 Speaker 2: about what they perceived as border chaos. They voted for 864 00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:22,320 Speaker 2: those things. Yes, does he have a man ate on 865 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,759 Speaker 2: those things. Yes, this has nothing to do with any 866 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:27,920 Speaker 2: of that. No one was like, yes, I would like 867 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,239 Speaker 2: the richest man on the earth, an unelected billionaire, to 868 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 2: have access to every sensitive government system and control over it. 869 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:36,320 Speaker 3: That's insane. 870 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,200 Speaker 1: No one, I don't agree with that because what I 871 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,560 Speaker 1: first of all, Elon was literally on the campaign trail 872 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:42,239 Speaker 1: and he was with him. Doge is one of those 873 00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,399 Speaker 1: things where if you're asking these podcast guys what they're 874 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,600 Speaker 1: the most excited about organically, every single one of them 875 00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:49,640 Speaker 1: is brought up doge to me. They're like, I can't 876 00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:51,799 Speaker 1: wait to see this slash and burn, and I think 877 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,640 Speaker 1: what it gets to is a deep lack of institutional trust. 878 00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,600 Speaker 1: Now coming back to it, I don't agree at all 879 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 1: that none of these things weren't mentioned. Do literally was 880 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,399 Speaker 1: a promise by Trump and Elon on the campaign troll. 881 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,080 Speaker 1: I don't even support a lot of stship. 882 00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:10,480 Speaker 2: Thought it was like a make work irrelevant blue ri Okay. 883 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,360 Speaker 1: In reality, that's probably what it all will be because 884 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,279 Speaker 1: in terms of all of this cutting USA dspunding, it's 885 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,200 Speaker 1: point seven percent of the federal budget. Like in terms 886 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,319 Speaker 1: of even quote seizing control of the payments. If ninety 887 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,080 Speaker 1: nine percent of the payments go through and one NGO 888 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,799 Speaker 1: gets cut off, I'm not going to cry about this, 889 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,040 Speaker 1: is What would. 890 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:30,640 Speaker 3: You say if it was? 891 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,480 Speaker 2: I mean, it's almost unimaginab because they would never do this. 892 00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,280 Speaker 2: It was Kama Harris that got elected and George Soros 893 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,880 Speaker 2: is now in control of the Treasury, the GSA, the OPM, 894 00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:39,799 Speaker 2: cutting agencies. 895 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:40,480 Speaker 3: What would you say? 896 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,280 Speaker 1: No, I agree with you on the on the actual 897 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,400 Speaker 1: conflict of interest. I'm trying to reconcile. 898 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:50,000 Speaker 2: It's not just a conflict of interest. It is blatantly unconstitutional. 899 00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,359 Speaker 2: It is a seizure of the government, is rendering the 900 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:59,560 Speaker 2: congressional duly elected congressional representatives completely irrelevant by the richest 901 00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:00,720 Speaker 2: man on the planet. 902 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:02,279 Speaker 1: What I am trying to direct what is going on 903 00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,000 Speaker 1: is what you just said is that there's no institutional pushback. 904 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:06,800 Speaker 1: There's not even really I don't think that there's some 905 00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:11,239 Speaker 1: major public outcry somewhat Quinnipiac polled Elon. We'll see, all right, 906 00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,440 Speaker 1: in terms of dose and all that. And also, did 907 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,080 Speaker 1: we not just live through an election where polls were 908 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,839 Speaker 1: complete bullshit? How are we supposed to know whether you like. 909 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:19,680 Speaker 3: Those polls when they say what you like on immigration? 910 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,080 Speaker 1: Well, okay, so I can pair that when Donald Trump 911 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,399 Speaker 1: gets elected in the popular vote then and a bunch 912 00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,359 Speaker 1: of a bunch of Hispanic people have on the ones 913 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,840 Speaker 1: you like the weekend. We can't pair elector result with 914 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:33,400 Speaker 1: a poll, and then we can say that there's some 915 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,160 Speaker 1: relative confidence tracking poll on Elon. Like, Look, if anything, 916 00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,839 Speaker 1: the electoral results show people don't give a shit whether 917 00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:43,000 Speaker 1: Elon is their support. If you get creamed in the midterms, 918 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,920 Speaker 1: then yeah, maybe, but I'm very curious to see how 919 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:46,560 Speaker 1: this stuff goes. 920 00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:48,200 Speaker 2: What would it even matter at this point if they 921 00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,640 Speaker 2: get creamed in the midterms since Congress does not even 922 00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,279 Speaker 2: This is where we're. 923 00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,080 Speaker 1: All exaggerating again, like you know, using constant This is 924 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,000 Speaker 1: why I get upset or annoyed about this whole Nazi 925 00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,400 Speaker 1: fascist It's like words have meaning. It's not constitutional crisis. 926 00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:07,760 Speaker 1: Whenever at one meals on wheels NGO gets as. 927 00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:07,320 Speaker 3: That's not the point. 928 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,800 Speaker 2: The point is not, No, there is not The point 929 00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,120 Speaker 2: is not a one n JUO is going to be defunded. 930 00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:18,239 Speaker 2: The point is that this is not the way our 931 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,080 Speaker 2: government is set up to work. We don't have a king, 932 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,520 Speaker 2: we don't We're not supposed to have rule by one 933 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,239 Speaker 2: single oligarch, and that is what we have right now. 934 00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:32,280 Speaker 2: That's why this is a constitutional crisis. And I guarantee 935 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:36,560 Speaker 2: you if it was George Soros, if it was Bill Gates, 936 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,640 Speaker 2: if it was Mark Zuckerberg working hand in glove with 937 00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:44,480 Speaker 2: Kamala Harris and locking out everybody from the government and 938 00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:48,880 Speaker 2: seizing their laptop getting access to their laptops and seizing 939 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:53,600 Speaker 2: control over the entire federal government disbursement system. I guarantee 940 00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,160 Speaker 2: you Republicans would agree. 941 00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:56,239 Speaker 1: I think that it was a. 942 00:48:56,160 --> 00:49:00,480 Speaker 2: Constitutional crisis because you're fundamentally talking about not just the 943 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:02,800 Speaker 2: separate That's why I say it's beyond a constitutional crisis 944 00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,560 Speaker 2: because this isn't even just about some like executive branch 945 00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:10,640 Speaker 2: versus legislative branch dispute. This is about someone who was 946 00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:15,439 Speaker 2: not elected or confirmed to anything taking control of things 947 00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,000 Speaker 2: he has no right to take control of. It is 948 00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,800 Speaker 2: a crime spree that it is a smash and grab 949 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:22,080 Speaker 2: crime spree. 950 00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:24,799 Speaker 1: Well, there's no graund happening, there's smash happening. But this 951 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:26,600 Speaker 1: is where I'm trying to get at. And this is 952 00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:30,839 Speaker 1: where again words matter and terms. For example, under the AOMF, 953 00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,919 Speaker 1: every president since George W. Bush has violated the constitution? Correct? Right? 954 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,040 Speaker 1: Is that a constitutional crisis? By bombing countries which Congress 955 00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,279 Speaker 1: has not declared war on it's bad? Are we going 956 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,920 Speaker 1: to call it a constitutional crisis? No, we're not, because 957 00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,560 Speaker 1: that's been happening for twenty years. Unfortunate has become normalized. 958 00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:47,960 Speaker 1: I fought against it for the entire time, but it 959 00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:51,360 Speaker 1: falls within you know, a scope of how things are working. 960 00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,799 Speaker 1: I would love not follow. Okay, but again, is that 961 00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,600 Speaker 1: right when we think about when I come back to 962 00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,440 Speaker 1: why is it that people support and I don't think 963 00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:06,080 Speaker 1: it's good to have somebody who's unelected, billionaire whatever, tons 964 00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,879 Speaker 1: of conflict of interest, who has his own enrichment, who 965 00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,920 Speaker 1: is totally in control of this. Now, again, when we 966 00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,479 Speaker 1: come back to why is it that so many people 967 00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:16,600 Speaker 1: are totally supportive of this or at the very least 968 00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,279 Speaker 1: a lot of the Republican coalition, it comes down to 969 00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:24,600 Speaker 1: zero institutional trusts and a genuine desire to blow shit up. 970 00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,239 Speaker 1: And I don't think that you're under that. You are 971 00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:31,080 Speaker 1: understanding how many people and this is the through line 972 00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:34,239 Speaker 1: through MAGA. Everyone's like, how can Tulsi and RFK and 973 00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,080 Speaker 1: Elon and Trump, who have all of these conflicting things 974 00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:41,120 Speaker 1: all come together. They are against the system. The system 975 00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,680 Speaker 1: is broadly what people voted against, and in the popular vote, 976 00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:48,040 Speaker 1: we can try and retcon it into inflation, egg prices 977 00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,439 Speaker 1: and all that. I don't really think so. I think 978 00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,120 Speaker 1: really what it comes down to is a giant fuck 979 00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,600 Speaker 1: you for all of the way that things are done, 980 00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,480 Speaker 1: process things, by the way many democratic socialists and others 981 00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,359 Speaker 1: I've heard say, is I screwed the parliament voting? How 982 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,480 Speaker 1: many of them who are vote advocated for rejecting norms, 983 00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,759 Speaker 1: stacking the Supreme voted to be able to get what 984 00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:08,279 Speaker 1: people want. 985 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:10,239 Speaker 3: No one voted for Elon Musk. 986 00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:11,640 Speaker 1: I do know one vot. 987 00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:13,280 Speaker 5: I wish. 988 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:16,960 Speaker 3: Here's the other thing. Here's the other thing. 989 00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:21,600 Speaker 2: Like even if there is, I don't doubt there one 990 00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,160 Speaker 2: hundred percent is the case that there is some constituency 991 00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:28,200 Speaker 2: that's like go doge destroy the federal government, like go 992 00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:32,040 Speaker 2: after them, seize control of the treasury. That doesn't mean 993 00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:35,319 Speaker 2: that it's constitutional, doesn't mean that it's right, doesn't mean 994 00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:37,440 Speaker 2: it's going to be good for the country, doesn't mean 995 00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,520 Speaker 2: it's going to have massive reverberating impacts. So it is 996 00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:43,200 Speaker 2: a weird thing to watch. It's a strange feeling because 997 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:47,600 Speaker 2: there seems to be it is true. I mean you're 998 00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:51,640 Speaker 2: right about there's like a whimper about it. And it's 999 00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:54,359 Speaker 2: so much just happening so quickly too that I don't 1000 00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,320 Speaker 2: think any normal person could really wrap their head around 1001 00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:02,200 Speaker 2: everything that is going on either. But once you have, 1002 00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:07,600 Speaker 2: you know, allowed a single unelected billionaire to take control 1003 00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:12,200 Speaker 2: of the federal government, like you don't really go back 1004 00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:18,280 Speaker 2: to just being a normal democracy after that, and so massive, 1005 00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:25,480 Speaker 2: massively consequential, deeply troubling, incredibly disturbing. And I don't think 1006 00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:29,719 Speaker 2: that there's any like I, you know, I don't think they. 1007 00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:31,760 Speaker 2: I don't think there's any reason we should have confidence 1008 00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:33,719 Speaker 2: they to buy by court decisions. I don't think they 1009 00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:36,600 Speaker 2: have any confidence that they'll just like you don't have 1010 00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,239 Speaker 2: normal elections next time around. Like that's that's where we're 1011 00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:44,920 Speaker 2: at the level of unilateral seizure that is going on 1012 00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,799 Speaker 2: here is I mean, it's it is difficult for me 1013 00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:53,279 Speaker 2: to put into words how disturbing, extraordinary, unusual, what is 1014 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:54,120 Speaker 2: going on with all of her. 1015 00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,360 Speaker 1: So I looked up at JD. Van's quote that you're claiming, 1016 00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:58,120 Speaker 1: and here's what you said. As so, I think the 1017 00:52:58,160 --> 00:52:59,640 Speaker 1: thing you can do in the Senate is push the 1018 00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,200 Speaker 1: legal boundaries as so far as the Supreme Court will 1019 00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,759 Speaker 1: let you take it, to basically make it possible for 1020 00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:08,000 Speaker 1: democratically accountable people and the executive in the legislative to 1021 00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,440 Speaker 1: fire mid level up to high level civil servants like that, 1022 00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:12,880 Speaker 1: to me is the meat of the administrative state. The 1023 00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,239 Speaker 1: keyword there was as far as the Supreme Court will 1024 00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,080 Speaker 1: let you no, no, no, no. This was a fact check 1025 00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,239 Speaker 1: based on this Supreme Court decision of thing that he 1026 00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,080 Speaker 1: apparently said on some podcast in twenty twenty one. I 1027 00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,680 Speaker 1: didn't realize this was. Has he raised the specter of 1028 00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,680 Speaker 1: open disregard for federal court rulings. This is some reason 1029 00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,920 Speaker 1: from the I'll send it if maybe he said something previously, 1030 00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:33,600 Speaker 1: but that's what I was able to find here. 1031 00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:34,680 Speaker 3: I will tell you the cost. 1032 00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:36,760 Speaker 1: Okay, let's courts stop. 1033 00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:41,880 Speaker 2: You stand before the country like Andrew Jackson did and said, 1034 00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:45,200 Speaker 2: the Chief Justice has made his ruling, now let him 1035 00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:45,680 Speaker 2: write and forth. 1036 00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:47,760 Speaker 1: I'm talking from the same I'm talking from the exact 1037 00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,640 Speaker 1: same transcript of where he says as far as the 1038 00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:52,440 Speaker 1: Supreme Court will let you take it, So if we 1039 00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:58,480 Speaker 1: want to cherry pick, you know, part he says, as 1040 00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,239 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court will let you take it. Now, who 1041 00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:02,840 Speaker 1: knows where that will come from. That was from a 1042 00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:06,320 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one podcast that he made where he said 1043 00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:08,440 Speaker 1: this on Yeah. So, first of all, it was what 1044 00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:11,799 Speaker 1: four years ago now at this point, somebody should ask him. 1045 00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:13,720 Speaker 1: Margaret Brennan, whoever, if I ever got a chance to 1046 00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:15,720 Speaker 1: be my I'll ask him about it. But my point 1047 00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:19,640 Speaker 1: falls back on something pretty simple, this idea that like 1048 00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,440 Speaker 1: we're canceling elections or any of this. No, there's no 1049 00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:25,920 Speaker 1: evidence for that, Like you can't extrapolate things beyond. But 1050 00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:27,680 Speaker 1: even again, I'm going to take it to the bigger 1051 00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:31,160 Speaker 1: puts a big democratic point. You made an important thing people, 1052 00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:33,040 Speaker 1: Oh so much is happening. And you know why people 1053 00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,960 Speaker 1: don't care Because most people only care about results. They 1054 00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,239 Speaker 1: don't give a shit about process. That's something I've heard 1055 00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,880 Speaker 1: you say a million times. They don't care about the 1056 00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,640 Speaker 1: parliamentarian you I've heard you talk about carling stack in 1057 00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,040 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. They don't give a shit, but they 1058 00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,880 Speaker 1: want the government that blow up. I mean, it doesn't 1059 00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:51,000 Speaker 1: as long as they get there, as long as they 1060 00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:52,200 Speaker 1: get their security. 1061 00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:59,120 Speaker 2: But then they're about to hike prices okay through massive 1062 00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:02,799 Speaker 2: terror riffs and also price is likely to go up 1063 00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,879 Speaker 2: through the Why does it matter? 1064 00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:07,560 Speaker 1: Why do norms not matter when you want to stack 1065 00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:09,400 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court? Why do norms that matter whenever you 1066 00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,640 Speaker 1: want to disregard the parliamentarium because they agree with the 1067 00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,040 Speaker 1: end goal. My point is always with the same point 1068 00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,520 Speaker 1: you would make. Then people don't care about that. They 1069 00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:23,160 Speaker 1: want what result. They want less immigration. Oddly they want 1070 00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:25,160 Speaker 1: another one. 1071 00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:29,240 Speaker 2: No one voted for Meals on Wheels to be cut Soger, 1072 00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:30,640 Speaker 2: but voted. 1073 00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:35,319 Speaker 3: To get cut. No one voted for mass austerity. 1074 00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:40,359 Speaker 1: People like even the idea of definable term of where 1075 00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:43,040 Speaker 1: you massively reduced probably more than five to ten percent, 1076 00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:46,040 Speaker 1: which is that's what he's pushing for. But that's not 1077 00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:48,239 Speaker 1: what's happened. We're not in mass austerity yet, and if 1078 00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:50,279 Speaker 1: it does that happen, then I'll call it mass austerity. 1079 00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:52,520 Speaker 1: What you have seen is a disruption of heads what 1080 00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:55,040 Speaker 1: not even headstart, by the way, that didn't even happen. 1081 00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:58,200 Speaker 1: Meals on Wheels had a question as to whether they 1082 00:55:58,200 --> 00:55:59,960 Speaker 1: were going to get their funding, and then the funding 1083 00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,480 Speaker 1: was immediately resumed after a twenty four hour period. I'm 1084 00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:05,920 Speaker 1: not going to cry if I'm paying for somebody's health 1085 00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:08,520 Speaker 1: care in Africa and it stops, Okay, I don't give 1086 00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:10,719 Speaker 1: a shop. I don't think most people should either. 1087 00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,320 Speaker 3: Do you think that it is a concerning principle. 1088 00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:15,560 Speaker 1: I've said yes that we should have. 1089 00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:21,160 Speaker 2: Now a billionaire who you know, massively conflicted, like huge 1090 00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,160 Speaker 2: one of the largest government contractors who now has access 1091 00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:28,080 Speaker 2: to all of our social security numbers, to access to 1092 00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:31,719 Speaker 2: the Treasury payment system. And it's just willy nilly deciding 1093 00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:34,760 Speaker 2: who should get paid and who shouldn't as a matter 1094 00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,840 Speaker 2: of principle in terms of where the country goes from here. 1095 00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:39,560 Speaker 3: Do you think that's a problem. 1096 00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,120 Speaker 1: I have so, absolutely yes I do. But you know, 1097 00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:44,480 Speaker 1: as again I have to reconcile this. Most people are 1098 00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:46,560 Speaker 1: not principal. Most people don't care at all. 1099 00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,560 Speaker 3: Talking about most people, why not there lives. 1100 00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:51,560 Speaker 1: They're the bots, They're the ones who do. 1101 00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,839 Speaker 2: Your job is to explain to people why these things 1102 00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,000 Speaker 2: are troubling and why you should care, even if you, 1103 00:56:58,000 --> 00:56:59,440 Speaker 2: you know, are trying to live your life and just 1104 00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,360 Speaker 2: go about your business. Why these things matter not just 1105 00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:04,920 Speaker 2: now but for the future and for the president that 1106 00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,239 Speaker 2: they set So to just wave your hand on no 1107 00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,480 Speaker 2: one cares. You have an important platform here to help 1108 00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:13,560 Speaker 2: to explain to people why it matters and why they 1109 00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:16,440 Speaker 2: should care, and why it would be deeply troubling if 1110 00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:18,840 Speaker 2: it happened. Also if it was a Democrat who was 1111 00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:20,160 Speaker 2: in power at this point. 1112 00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:23,000 Speaker 1: Absolutely listen again, I can Tom Blue in the face 1113 00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:26,600 Speaker 1: having somebody who is unelected make these decisions is bad. 1114 00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:29,440 Speaker 1: But I listen, as a guy who has very unpopular 1115 00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,600 Speaker 1: positions on many things, I have basically given up at 1116 00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:36,240 Speaker 1: a certain point of trying to change people's behavior. I 1117 00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,600 Speaker 1: have seen too many instances of how many people are 1118 00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:41,880 Speaker 1: just willing to go along with something as long as 1119 00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:45,000 Speaker 1: it conveniently aligns, and so as an analyst, now at 1120 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,120 Speaker 1: this point, I'm just trying to understand democratically. As you said, 1121 00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:52,480 Speaker 1: why is this alarmist position either not taking up? Why 1122 00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:55,640 Speaker 1: are there not protests in the street overdose? And I'm like, Wow, 1123 00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:57,920 Speaker 1: it's pretty clear to me that the public is so 1124 00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:00,320 Speaker 1: fed up with this that they are just where they 1125 00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,080 Speaker 1: are absolutely willing to go along and to cut the 1126 00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:06,360 Speaker 1: Trump administration a lot of slack until some serious shit 1127 00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:09,040 Speaker 1: goes wrong in their life now on the tariffs or 1128 00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,560 Speaker 1: on doze or any of this other stuff. It's totally 1129 00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:15,400 Speaker 1: possible if they screw up Medicare, Social Security, any of 1130 00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:18,360 Speaker 1: these other programs. But in the interim, I mean, what, 1131 00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:21,640 Speaker 1: yeah again, PEP far, go ahead and pull PEP far. 1132 00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:24,880 Speaker 1: It was massively unpopular at the time under George W. 1133 00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:25,160 Speaker 7: Bush. 1134 00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:27,480 Speaker 1: She actually got hit a ton from the conservative movement 1135 00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:30,120 Speaker 1: for it. Basically a lot of these global aid programs 1136 00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:31,880 Speaker 1: and all that they exist, and when you try and 1137 00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:33,680 Speaker 1: reconcile with the fact that we don't even pay for 1138 00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:36,040 Speaker 1: our own citizens, they're ludicrous. They don't make any sense. 1139 00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:39,440 Speaker 1: And yes, many USA D programs are basically venues in 1140 00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:42,880 Speaker 1: order to establish regime change abroad. They're not good. So 1141 00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:45,240 Speaker 1: you know, this gets to the question of are people 1142 00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,800 Speaker 1: going to cry about lack of medication going to some 1143 00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,880 Speaker 1: global health program abroad. No, and I don't think they should. 1144 00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:54,680 Speaker 1: They've always foreign eight as always pulled at like the 1145 00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:57,640 Speaker 1: absolute bottom. Yes, when we talk about social if you 1146 00:58:57,720 --> 00:58:59,360 Speaker 1: ask maybe if that's a bit different. 1147 00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,520 Speaker 2: Example the pet far thing, I think there was a 1148 00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:07,360 Speaker 2: huge reaction against the pet far funding being frozen, and 1149 00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:09,840 Speaker 2: because there was a public reaction and this is one 1150 00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:13,760 Speaker 2: of the only things that's encouraging, they actually went back 1151 00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:15,920 Speaker 2: on that and said, no, no, this this can be funded. 1152 00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:18,280 Speaker 2: Like they gave an exemption so that pet far could 1153 00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:21,240 Speaker 2: continue to be funded. So when people here foreign aid 1154 00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,920 Speaker 2: in the abstract, I think you're correct that there's just like, oh, 1155 00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:24,640 Speaker 2: why are we doing that? 1156 00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:28,200 Speaker 1: Good principle, why are we paying for drugs. But because 1157 00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:30,160 Speaker 1: you do, we even pay for our own construct. 1158 00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:33,320 Speaker 2: The reason is because of soft power and imperialism. That's 1159 00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:35,280 Speaker 2: what it really. I mean, it's equivalent of like, you know, 1160 00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:37,920 Speaker 2: similar to like China's Belton Road initiative. They're not doing 1161 00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:39,360 Speaker 2: it out of the goodness of our heart. We're not 1162 00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:42,400 Speaker 2: doing these USAID programs out of the goodness of our hearts, 1163 00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:45,480 Speaker 2: not at the federal government level, at the population level, 1164 00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:47,760 Speaker 2: you know. To counter your point that people don't care, now, 1165 00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:49,120 Speaker 2: actually I think people do care. 1166 00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:50,560 Speaker 3: They like to feel like our. 1167 00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,240 Speaker 2: Government is doing good things around the world, whether it's 1168 00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:56,840 Speaker 2: malaria prevention or dealing with HIV and AIDS in the 1169 00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:00,000 Speaker 2: developing world, a program that's been tremendously successful and say 1170 01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:01,320 Speaker 2: millions and millions of lives. 1171 01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:03,520 Speaker 3: But all of that is really kind of. 1172 01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,600 Speaker 2: Beside the point, because, as I said before, how you 1173 01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:11,800 Speaker 2: feel about USAID isn't really the issue here. The issue 1174 01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:16,160 Speaker 2: here is having some dude who have his view willis 1175 01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:19,360 Speaker 2: amount of planet saying I don't like that agency. I'm 1176 01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:23,120 Speaker 2: feeding it into the wood chipper, with no congressional input, 1177 01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:27,680 Speaker 2: no input from your elected representatives, with no Senate confirmation, 1178 01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:31,200 Speaker 2: having no one having voted for him. That is the 1179 01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:35,200 Speaker 2: issue that is at hand. How you feel about USAID 1180 01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:39,200 Speaker 2: is really quite irrelevant to that conversation, and that is 1181 01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,080 Speaker 2: truly a place we have never. 1182 01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:43,200 Speaker 3: Been in before. 1183 01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:47,040 Speaker 2: So you are correct that, you know, I think most 1184 01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:49,640 Speaker 2: people are not focused on all of these things that 1185 01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:51,160 Speaker 2: are going They don't know what to make of it. 1186 01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:55,439 Speaker 2: They you know, are living their lives. But listen, it's 1187 01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:57,760 Speaker 2: one thing, you know, we're about to talk about the 1188 01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:01,080 Speaker 2: plane crash thing like it's one thing to seize control 1189 01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:04,440 Speaker 2: of a private company Twitter and slash a bunch of 1190 01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:08,040 Speaker 2: jobs and turn it into like, you know, a cesspool 1191 01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:11,560 Speaker 2: of Nazism and whatever in your own personal propaganda outlet, 1192 01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:14,400 Speaker 2: and the consequences be like, oh my damns don't work 1193 01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:17,520 Speaker 2: today once again or whatever. It's another thing when you're 1194 01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:21,560 Speaker 2: talking about, hey, we need people to regulate food safety 1195 01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:24,400 Speaker 2: so we don't have another you know, outbreak of salmonilla 1196 01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:28,440 Speaker 2: and people dying. Hey, we need air traffic controllers to 1197 01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:33,280 Speaker 2: be present in adequate numbers, which is something we dramatically 1198 01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:35,600 Speaker 2: don't have right now, and they send out, you know, 1199 01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:37,120 Speaker 2: the same email that went to everybody else in the 1200 01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:40,000 Speaker 2: federal government that's like, please leave please resign, even to 1201 01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:43,920 Speaker 2: people like air traffic controllers. Some functions of federal government 1202 01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:47,240 Speaker 2: are important. Some of them we really rely on to 1203 01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,040 Speaker 2: have a functioning society. Some of them are even life 1204 01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:54,760 Speaker 2: or death, and we've now we haven't handed over. Elon 1205 01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:59,280 Speaker 2: Musks now sees control of all of those functions. So 1206 01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:01,560 Speaker 2: even if you are cool with leg, I don't really 1207 01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,080 Speaker 2: care about the AIDS funding the kids in Africa or 1208 01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:05,200 Speaker 2: you know, to malaria. 1209 01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:06,880 Speaker 3: What that is really not. 1210 01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:11,000 Speaker 2: What this is about, because the control that he is 1211 01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:16,160 Speaker 2: asserted that he has seized is vastly broader than that, 1212 01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:20,760 Speaker 2: and as I said before, is brazenly unconstitutional. So if 1213 01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:24,400 Speaker 2: that is on the table, then literally anything is effectively 1214 01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:25,520 Speaker 2: on the table at this point. 1215 01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,440 Speaker 1: Okay, again, I just think it's a lot matter of 1216 01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:31,120 Speaker 1: gradations is and my here's my prediction. If they stick 1217 01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:35,520 Speaker 1: to USAID cutting funding to NGOs, that it'll be massively popular. 1218 01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:37,439 Speaker 1: I think. I think that's the truth. If they don't 1219 01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:39,240 Speaker 1: touch so and medicare. 1220 01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:41,200 Speaker 3: They already had to roll back the pup far thing. 1221 01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:42,880 Speaker 1: Okay, the partic issue. 1222 01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:44,840 Speaker 3: Another thing saying okay, not life saving. 1223 01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:46,360 Speaker 1: It It was not there were not people taking to 1224 01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:48,800 Speaker 1: the streets saying please restore pep far. It's because there 1225 01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:50,520 Speaker 1: are a bunch of members of Congress who are very, 1226 01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:53,360 Speaker 1: very pro pep far. So if anything there you go, 1227 01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:56,160 Speaker 1: there's a check on the power. I don't think any 1228 01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:58,360 Speaker 1: of this is necessarily a good thing. I think that 1229 01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:03,080 Speaker 1: if they cut USAID or if they reform USAD, whatever, 1230 01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:06,360 Speaker 1: the end result of this ends up happening, or start 1231 01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:10,400 Speaker 1: cutting fundings to homeless NGOs or sorry, unhoused NGOs as 1232 01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:12,760 Speaker 1: they call themselves. Yeah, I think it's gonna be crazy popular, 1233 01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:15,440 Speaker 1: and I think there's a reason for that is that 1234 01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:18,040 Speaker 1: people are deeply fed up and feel like the government 1235 01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:20,200 Speaker 1: helps all these other people. They're like, wait, why does 1236 01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:21,800 Speaker 1: this money go over there? And I don't feel like 1237 01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:24,240 Speaker 1: I'm being out And so as long as they don't 1238 01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:27,280 Speaker 1: touch the most popular programs which look to be fair, 1239 01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:29,360 Speaker 1: you're right. Elon definitely wants to do that. But if 1240 01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:31,959 Speaker 1: Trump is able to keep him away from that, this 1241 01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:34,800 Speaker 1: is very likely to be a pr coup. Now there's 1242 01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:37,320 Speaker 1: a lot of issues that could fall in is if 1243 01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:40,080 Speaker 1: they do. I just think fundamentally, your view of the 1244 01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:42,800 Speaker 1: federal government is not one that people hold. They may 1245 01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:44,960 Speaker 1: find out now they may find out you're right under 1246 01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:48,160 Speaker 1: FAA or NO or or FEMA or any of these 1247 01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:50,960 Speaker 1: other you might, but something tells me that they're not 1248 01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:51,480 Speaker 1: actually dumb. 1249 01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:51,800 Speaker 3: Enough. 1250 01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:55,680 Speaker 2: Was a huge reaction against when all the payments were 1251 01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:59,640 Speaker 2: frozen last week. Well that was and if you look 1252 01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:02,960 Speaker 2: at so people in general, they feel like, oh, the 1253 01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:05,280 Speaker 2: debt's too high, the deficit's too high, like we should 1254 01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:05,640 Speaker 2: cut the. 1255 01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:06,880 Speaker 3: Government should be more efficient. 1256 01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:11,320 Speaker 2: When you ask people about should the government spend more 1257 01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:14,360 Speaker 2: or less on various programs, the only things they actually 1258 01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:16,800 Speaker 2: say less on are like the military, because they feel like, 1259 01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:18,480 Speaker 2: oh my god, we already spend so freaking much on 1260 01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:22,880 Speaker 2: the military. If you ask them about programs to alleviate poverty, 1261 01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:24,960 Speaker 2: they say we should spend more. If you ask them 1262 01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:27,760 Speaker 2: about programs for education, they say more. If they healthcare, 1263 01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:30,720 Speaker 2: they say we should spend more. So that there was 1264 01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:34,640 Speaker 2: a big reaction when payments were frozen because first of all, 1265 01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:36,919 Speaker 2: I mean, the Medicaid thing was just like obviously people 1266 01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:38,720 Speaker 2: were freaked down about that, But it wasn't just that. 1267 01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:41,640 Speaker 2: It was also head Start, It was also meals on wheels. 1268 01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:44,960 Speaker 2: It was also domestic violent shelters. It was also addiction treatment, 1269 01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:49,000 Speaker 2: like people do believe that the federal government should be 1270 01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:52,600 Speaker 2: investing in the American people and helping to support people 1271 01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:53,640 Speaker 2: in their time of need. 1272 01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:54,600 Speaker 3: They do believe in that. 1273 01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:57,840 Speaker 2: So when you ask the broad question, should we cut 1274 01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:00,960 Speaker 2: the you know, cut spending, of course, sure, yeah, like 1275 01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:03,360 Speaker 2: cut out the waist. But when you get down to 1276 01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:07,160 Speaker 2: any of these individual programs, there's a big reaction to it, 1277 01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:11,560 Speaker 2: and not just the big ticket ones obviously Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, 1278 01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:15,080 Speaker 2: but truly, any of these programs, when you go after them, 1279 01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:19,840 Speaker 2: people and this is pretty bipartisan, really disagree. So you know, 1280 01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:22,960 Speaker 2: as you said, listen, I think you're right that there 1281 01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:27,240 Speaker 2: isn't a big reaction against this yet because they're you know, 1282 01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:29,120 Speaker 2: the rubber doesn't hit the road. People don't see it 1283 01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:31,440 Speaker 2: in terms. It wasn't like when the Medicaid portals froze 1284 01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:34,880 Speaker 2: or whatever. I'm just saying that, I think the consequences 1285 01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:38,920 Speaker 2: of where we are and what it means for having 1286 01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:43,440 Speaker 2: operating like anything approaching in democracy where your elected representatives 1287 01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:46,080 Speaker 2: matter at all. Like, I think we're in a really 1288 01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:47,560 Speaker 2: I think we're in a very dark place. 1289 01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:49,800 Speaker 1: I think it could definitely turn into that. Well, let's 1290 01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:52,720 Speaker 1: get to FAA because yeah, that's where that is where. Look, 1291 01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:54,440 Speaker 1: I'm going to grant it to you. And this what 1292 01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:58,160 Speaker 1: if I said, presidents very often overreach. If I were 1293 01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:01,240 Speaker 1: to predict anything that will be Trump's, it will be tariffs. 1294 01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:03,800 Speaker 1: And I say this as somebody who actually supports tariffs 1295 01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:07,440 Speaker 1: because we live in ultra consumerist society. Look at the 1296 01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:10,439 Speaker 1: TikTok thing. People want to buy cheap shit. That's all 1297 01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:13,680 Speaker 1: they care about. Over and over, we have been proved, 1298 01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:16,440 Speaker 1: we have proven that people, you know, they may support 1299 01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:20,920 Speaker 1: some tariffs on washing machines and others, but overwhelmingly temu 1300 01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:23,760 Speaker 1: is a massively popular business for one reason. People want 1301 01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:24,520 Speaker 1: to buy cheap crap. 1302 01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:26,880 Speaker 3: And can I say, schin but all this other junk, 1303 01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:27,760 Speaker 3: It didn't. 1304 01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:29,800 Speaker 2: Come out of nowhere that just people want to buy 1305 01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:34,680 Speaker 2: cheap crap. We this is what we. Low prices are 1306 01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:36,400 Speaker 2: what we've effectively. 1307 01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:39,200 Speaker 3: Been given in lieu of like yeah a job. 1308 01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:42,760 Speaker 2: Yeah a job, high wages, brought our social safety net, 1309 01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:46,480 Speaker 2: et cetera. So it's not that I don't also share 1310 01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:49,959 Speaker 2: that critique of society that like, okay, do we really 1311 01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:52,720 Speaker 2: need more like cheap crap filling up our homes that 1312 01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:56,280 Speaker 2: we throw in the landfill and whatever. But you can't 1313 01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:59,040 Speaker 2: really blame people because this is this is the deal 1314 01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:02,200 Speaker 2: that has been on. This has effectively been the social 1315 01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:05,560 Speaker 2: contract is. Yeah, we're going to ship your jobs overseas. Yeah, 1316 01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:07,920 Speaker 2: we're going to destroy your wages. Yeah, you're gonna have 1317 01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:10,280 Speaker 2: a worse social safety heat than any other developed or 1318 01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:10,800 Speaker 2: a country. 1319 01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:13,240 Speaker 3: But at least you can buy some cheap shit from Amazon. 1320 01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:16,640 Speaker 2: And if you want to tear up that social contract, 1321 01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:21,680 Speaker 2: you have to have those other pieces in place. And 1322 01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:24,040 Speaker 2: in addition, I mean some of the we don't have 1323 01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:25,520 Speaker 2: to go back to the tariff debate. I'm sure we're 1324 01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:28,000 Speaker 2: going to have the tariff debate again tomorrow, but in addition, 1325 01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:30,520 Speaker 2: like just to do a blanket across the board, it's like, well, 1326 01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:32,880 Speaker 2: why are we tariffing avocados. 1327 01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:34,280 Speaker 3: That's just going to raise the prices. 1328 01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:36,560 Speaker 2: Is they're really a need to have a domestic like 1329 01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:40,480 Speaker 2: massive avocado growing operation. Is that you know that's nothing 1330 01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:43,640 Speaker 2: to do with reindustrialized growing alfhead. No, I don't agree 1331 01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:46,120 Speaker 2: with that, but you know that's sort of my broader 1332 01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:49,320 Speaker 2: point with the tariff conversations. You can't just raise prices 1333 01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:54,000 Speaker 2: without also doing these other pieces that will make that 1334 01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:55,560 Speaker 2: social contract makes sense. 1335 01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:58,200 Speaker 1: I don't disagree. My vision for America is very much 1336 01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:00,840 Speaker 1: exactly what you said. That's still wise sport the tariffs, though, 1337 01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:02,760 Speaker 1: is that when something happens like that, I'm gonna I'm 1338 01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:05,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to go for it. Because again, like the 1339 01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:07,120 Speaker 1: and you know you may ask, you ask a question 1340 01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:09,280 Speaker 1: about avocados, how do you get somebody to buckle on 1341 01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:12,080 Speaker 1: auto parts and all these other price control increases, Well, 1342 01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:13,880 Speaker 1: you hit them where it hurts, which is eighty percent 1343 01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:17,880 Speaker 1: of their exports. But beyond that, my prediction, and this 1344 01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:22,640 Speaker 1: is unfortunate, is that America worships at the altar of consumerism. 1345 01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:26,519 Speaker 1: Every action that Americans take is one where they waste 1346 01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:29,360 Speaker 1: their time on TikTok, which is why it's massly popular. 1347 01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:32,280 Speaker 1: Whenever something is cheaper, they go to Temu. Whenever they 1348 01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:34,320 Speaker 1: want cheap clothes, they go to Shiann. They don't give 1349 01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:36,080 Speaker 1: a shit if it comes from China. They don't even 1350 01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:39,759 Speaker 1: care necessarily if it costs somebody their job here, undercuts 1351 01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:42,559 Speaker 1: US e commerce. They could care less about deminimus or 1352 01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:44,760 Speaker 1: any of these other nerdy terms. You know that I'm 1353 01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:47,720 Speaker 1: going to throw around, and so my unfortunate prediction is 1354 01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:51,720 Speaker 1: that America is now so addicted to two hundred dollars televisions, 1355 01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:55,800 Speaker 1: to Walmart, to Black Friday, to Amazon, you know, replacement 1356 01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:58,880 Speaker 1: phone chargers which are one fiftieth of the price even 1357 01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:01,559 Speaker 1: though they break in two days, that they will revolt 1358 01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:04,800 Speaker 1: only over that. But that kind of fits with this 1359 01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:10,480 Speaker 1: Doze conversation where America now has this quasi secular libertarian 1360 01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:13,280 Speaker 1: ideology where the government sucks and the only thing that 1361 01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:16,280 Speaker 1: really matters for them is the ability to shop to 1362 01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:18,360 Speaker 1: buy a new car every five years and load yourself 1363 01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:20,880 Speaker 1: up in debt. And then you know, it's like, I 1364 01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:25,479 Speaker 1: just when you see the individual choices on balance, you're right, 1365 01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:28,760 Speaker 1: we can absolutely blame government policy. But we're here now, 1366 01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:31,840 Speaker 1: it's been forty years. We live in this world, and 1367 01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:35,479 Speaker 1: this world is not one that rewards unfortunately, industrial policy. 1368 01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:38,080 Speaker 1: It's not one that is not a country or a 1369 01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:40,479 Speaker 1: population anymore that can be told, hey, we're going to 1370 01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:43,280 Speaker 1: do terrorists, but we're trying to build more auto manufacturers 1371 01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:45,400 Speaker 1: and other things. Here they're like, no, I want a 1372 01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:47,000 Speaker 1: new car. I want it to be cheap. You know, 1373 01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:49,640 Speaker 1: it's like, this is the individual choice that people have 1374 01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:51,720 Speaker 1: now told us over the last forty years. I don't 1375 01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:52,840 Speaker 1: know if you can deprogram that. 1376 01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:53,080 Speaker 2: Well. 1377 01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:54,519 Speaker 1: I would like to, I don't think it will happen. 1378 01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:56,400 Speaker 2: Yeah again, and we don't have to belabor this because 1379 01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:57,720 Speaker 2: I do want to get to the plane crash thing, 1380 01:09:57,800 --> 01:10:00,439 Speaker 2: but I don't think that you can. Just the problem 1381 01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:03,120 Speaker 2: with the Trump policy is that it just raises prices. 1382 01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:04,080 Speaker 3: It doesn't you. 1383 01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,879 Speaker 2: Know, if you if you paired it with a national 1384 01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:11,160 Speaker 2: vision of you know, a shift in the social contract 1385 01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:13,479 Speaker 2: of we're gonna lift your wages, we're gonna have universal 1386 01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:15,679 Speaker 2: health care, we're gonna provide you for you in these ways. 1387 01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:17,360 Speaker 2: But yeah, you're gonna pay more at the store for 1388 01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:19,240 Speaker 2: X and Y and Z, Like you're not going to 1389 01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:22,479 Speaker 2: have the same level of access to cheap craft from China. 1390 01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:25,960 Speaker 2: Like we're shifting the values and the priorities in this country. 1391 01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:28,360 Speaker 2: That would be something that you know, you again, you 1392 01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:29,600 Speaker 2: would have to go out and make the case to 1393 01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:32,439 Speaker 2: American people. And we've had decades and decades of people 1394 01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:34,760 Speaker 2: being treated not as citizens, not as family members, not 1395 01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:38,240 Speaker 2: as community members, but just as consumers and low prices 1396 01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:40,560 Speaker 2: being the end all be all that was what was 1397 01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:42,519 Speaker 2: given to us in exchange for Hey, we're going to 1398 01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:45,519 Speaker 2: decimate the industrial Midwest, but your prices are going to 1399 01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:48,719 Speaker 2: be cheaper, and overall GDP will go up by a percent, 1400 01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:51,640 Speaker 2: all of which flowed into the pockets of people like 1401 01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:55,439 Speaker 2: Elon Musk, by the way, but that's not really what 1402 01:10:55,479 --> 01:10:58,040 Speaker 2: we're talking about now with this particular tar off conversation, 1403 01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:01,880 Speaker 2: which is just on the side of raising prices. But 1404 01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:05,080 Speaker 2: to get back to the you know, the crash and 1405 01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:08,080 Speaker 2: the way the rubber can hit the road in terms 1406 01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:10,240 Speaker 2: of whether you know it or not, you know, the 1407 01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:12,679 Speaker 2: federal government when when we want it to be there, 1408 01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:14,320 Speaker 2: we really wanted to be there, and we want it 1409 01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:16,160 Speaker 2: to be effective, and we wanted to deliver, and we 1410 01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:18,080 Speaker 2: want it, for example, to make sure that planes don't 1411 01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:19,400 Speaker 2: crash into each other and fall out, a 1412 01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:21,519 Speaker 1: Facy that I think what everybody could agree on