Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukleman. This is a production of
Speaker 1: the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render, where
Speaker 1: we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes
Speaker 1: of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f HF Gear,
Speaker 1: American Maid, purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed
Speaker 1: to be as rugged as the place as we explore.
Speaker 1: Happy New Year, everybody, Happy new Do you guys notice
Speaker 1: the New year already? We're actually recording live on January first.
Speaker 1: I hope everybody's doing great.
Speaker 2: I'm doing great.
Speaker 1: I'm not recording live. We're not recording. We're not We're not.
Speaker 1: So we've got We've got a We've got a great
Speaker 1: crew here today, doctor mister nukem Hello, you're here, very
Speaker 1: interested in your to hear about your projections for twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five. We've got Caleb Now, I would I thought
Speaker 1: it was spelled flies, but you tell me it is.
Speaker 3: It is spelled flies, but it's pronounced fleece. It's lee German, yes, sir.
Speaker 2: Really, finally our Germans on this show.
Speaker 1: Another German. What we need.
Speaker 2: My last name is Spielmacher. It's spelled it's spelled Speelmaker.
Speaker 1: Nice it's just so unnecessary, over dramatized. Missy always used
Speaker 1: to talk about, uh, our our friends sometimes we go
Speaker 1: to Central America and they would come back and they
Speaker 1: would be like.
Speaker 4: Having a normal conversation and then just all of a
Speaker 4: sudden say I went to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were down, and then just like talk back
Speaker 1: to their American accent, Caleb, good to have you here, man,
Speaker 1: get over here. Thanks. I just I just met Ale today,
Speaker 1: but we've been internet buddies for a pretty long time.
Speaker 1: And followed along on your traditional archery stuff. And uh
Speaker 1: so you're from Norman, Oklahoma, Yes, sir, Norman, Oklahoma. Good
Speaker 1: deer hunting over there, Yes, central ter over there, that's terrible.
Speaker 1: Deer stay away from it anywhere. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: go to Iowa. That's where people should deer hunt. All
Speaker 1: people should deer hunt in Iowa. Deer hunting Oklahoma's terrible.
Speaker 1: Arkansas is terrible. But you live in Norman, Oklahoma, yes, sir.
Speaker 1: And you're you're a.
Speaker 3: Firefighter, yes, for the city of Norman. Yep.
Speaker 1: Nice. How long you've been doing that, I've.
Speaker 3: Been doing it six years. I've been at that department
Speaker 3: for about four.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm gonna come back to you. I need to
Speaker 1: hear like your best fire fireman stories.
Speaker 2: Okay, Caleb, do me a favor and pull that microphone
Speaker 2: just a little bit closer.
Speaker 1: Is that better?
Speaker 2: That's much How about that much better?
Speaker 1: Okay? We've got Josh Lyndbridge Spiel that's right here. And
Speaker 1: we've got Barr John Newcom also here. See it now,
Speaker 1: we're we've got scattered amongst the crew today. We've got
Speaker 1: multiple not just traditional bows, but what they call self bows.
Speaker 1: Tell me what a self bow is, or tell the people.
Speaker 3: So the technical term for self bow would be a
Speaker 3: bow made out of one piece of wood. It's shooting
Speaker 3: the arrow itself. It's not aided by a fiberglass lamination
Speaker 3: or bamboo backing or anything. It's carved out of one
Speaker 3: piece of wood. So it's a bow in the purest form.
Speaker 1: Is that? So they call itself because it's propelling itself.
Speaker 3: It is just it's just made out of one piece
Speaker 3: of wood. It's doing all the work itself. And it's
Speaker 3: commonly confused with be major self But I mean, if
Speaker 3: you made a compound in your garage, it wouldn't be
Speaker 3: a self bow, you know.
Speaker 1: I thought of that. Yeah, Like I made this bow myself.
Speaker 1: It's a self bow. No, you wouldn't say that. I
Speaker 1: would like to talk to the guy that named a
Speaker 1: self bow though. Yeah, it is a little bit misleading.
Speaker 1: It's uh, the marketings all off on it. I mean,
Speaker 1: what could what would be a better name, a little
Speaker 1: more flashy? You got any ideas, Caleb?
Speaker 3: Well, just I think they have to differentiate between long
Speaker 3: bows and recurves because.
Speaker 1: Those are cool names. Though. Yeah, but now you have miss.
Speaker 2: Can you have a self long bow?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like so that's a long bow. This is a
Speaker 3: long bow.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that it should have been called like
Speaker 1: like a one one piece or like like rugged American
Speaker 1: one piece?
Speaker 4: Is it self propelling?
Speaker 3: Well, it's just doing all the work itself that it
Speaker 3: relies on its strength.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's a better expert.
Speaker 2: So there are a.
Speaker 1: Bunch of primitive guys setting around clacking on rocks with
Speaker 1: these things, and they were like, what are we going
Speaker 1: to call these? And they were like, well, they wouldn't
Speaker 1: even have known what They probably would have just called
Speaker 1: them a bow because there wouldn't have been anything else true, Okay,
Speaker 1: so these had to be named later, Yeah, because they
Speaker 1: were like the propels.
Speaker 2: They must have come up with this name after they have.
Speaker 1: There's no wheels there, there's no you know. Anyway, it
Speaker 1: really is the most primitive archery weapon. I never got
Speaker 1: into self bows, or I haven't yet. I've shot traditional
Speaker 1: a lot. I was telling you before we started. I
Speaker 1: I shot traditional archery pretty much exclusively for seven years,
Speaker 1: like that was my go to weapon. I probably did
Speaker 1: a few rifle hunts like out West or something during
Speaker 1: that time, but for the most part, for for whitetail
Speaker 1: and for bear for seven years. And man, I got
Speaker 1: into it really just to see if I could, just
Speaker 1: to see if I could do it. You know, we
Speaker 1: so my we have a really is part of our family,
Speaker 1: not directly, but David Albright is a really good do
Speaker 1: you know. You know a guy named David Alright, he's
Speaker 1: from Arkansas. Bow you're from Arkansas in his seventies and
Speaker 1: he gave me a bow twenty plus years ago, and
Speaker 1: he always hunted public land here in Arkansas and killed
Speaker 1: as limited deer with bows that he made. And I
Speaker 1: was shooting you know, compound bows and just felt like, man,
Speaker 1: that is a that's the way to bow hunt. Like
Speaker 1: I mean, even nobody had to tell me. When I
Speaker 1: met David Albright, I was like, this guy's a real deal,
Speaker 1: and I just was challenged by the way that he hunted,
Speaker 1: and he gave me a bow. I started shooting, but
Speaker 1: didn't hunt for like ten years until after I got
Speaker 1: a bow, and then about twenty thirteen, I was like, man,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go for it now. I killed my
Speaker 1: first deer with a trad bow. I guess that picture
Speaker 1: right there, which would have been two thousand and six.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I killed one in two thousand and six
Speaker 1: and then missed several.
Speaker 2: Are you wearing that baby carrier when you shot?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: That?
Speaker 1: Uh so that's Bear on my back there, Caleb. That's neat. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I'd shot that deer and came home and I
Speaker 1: had to get Misty. Misty was actually sick.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I got really, really sick. I'll never forget that day.
Speaker 4: I got super sick that day. I got a really
Speaker 4: bad migraine, one of the worst I've ever had, knocked
Speaker 4: me out and Bears you was it, little little puppy
Speaker 4: and Clay had cub Yeah that come is it? That's true?
Speaker 4: And Clay threw him in the back and went and
Speaker 4: got the deer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so so, but it wasn't until twenty thirteen that
Speaker 1: I really started seriously hunting with it. And uh, man,
Speaker 1: you asked me why I didn't hunt with it as
Speaker 1: much anymore, and I do occasional. I killed a bear
Speaker 1: two years ago, I guess with a with a bow,
Speaker 1: with a trad bow.
Speaker 2: But at a Foalsom point.
Speaker 1: Man, it is it is. It's stressful to carry one
Speaker 1: of those things, you know. I mean when you go
Speaker 1: out in the woods and in your limitting factor is
Speaker 1: not only getting close to an animal and not being
Speaker 1: detected and finding an animal that you legally can shoot,
Speaker 1: but when you do all that right and then you've
Speaker 1: got to make a shot instinctively, it's tough. So, I mean, period,
Speaker 1: I hats off. Just was like, man, I want to
Speaker 1: remove one of these obstacles to killing wild game, and
Speaker 1: so I started to shoot my compound again. Is that
Speaker 1: a sufficient answer?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you approve of that, Yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Mean, to each their own.
Speaker 3: I was just curious because, like you know, there are
Speaker 3: so many more lows when you're walking around with the
Speaker 3: stick bow. But man, the highs are like nothing I've
Speaker 3: ever felt before. So you know, like I'll I've picked
Speaker 3: up the rifle a few times since I started hunting traditional,
Speaker 3: but I've shot traditional my whole life and hunted with
Speaker 3: a gun until I was seventeen or eighteen, and then
Speaker 3: I shot my first year with one, and man, it
Speaker 3: just it's so addicting that I was okay with seeing
Speaker 3: deer at thirty yards that I couldn't shoot, because when
Speaker 3: I would get one at twenty yards and I'd harvest it, man,
Speaker 3: it's just the ultimate reward.
Speaker 1: That was good. Yeah, that was year. That was way
Speaker 1: better than my reason why I quite Yeah, too hard week.
Speaker 1: So when did you start shooting traditional? Did your dad shoot?
Speaker 1: Did you grow up hunting?
Speaker 3: I grew up hunting and fishing, but the traditional stuff
Speaker 3: wasn't really anything anyone else in my family did. It
Speaker 3: was just as a kid, like watching any kind of
Speaker 3: movie or anything like from Lord of the Rings or
Speaker 3: like leg Loss. For some reason, those guys with the
Speaker 3: long bows and reekers were always so cool to me.
Speaker 3: And so I have one that I would shoot in
Speaker 3: the backyard and I would shoot three D tournaments like
Speaker 3: age nine ten, whatever we travel over and I'd shoot.
Speaker 3: My older brother would shoot compound, and then I shot
Speaker 3: my first deer with a recurve when I was twelve
Speaker 3: or thirteen, and it was like twenty five yards and
Speaker 3: it stuck in right behind the shoulder and then just drooped,
Speaker 3: and so I mean, it didn't hurt the deer, and
Speaker 3: I just remember crying.
Speaker 1: And be like I wounded it. I wounded it.
Speaker 3: My Grandpa's like, no, you're you're fine or whatever. But
Speaker 3: I shot a compound just because that terrible in my
Speaker 3: mind experience, just like I can't I can't shoot a
Speaker 3: heavy enough bow at that point. So I shot compound
Speaker 3: and shot quite a few deer with that in a
Speaker 3: rifle until I finally one day decided like I'm I'm
Speaker 3: taking my recurve back out, and you know it's kind
Speaker 3: of rest as history after that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so you're making your own bows, yes, just
Speaker 1: a couple of.
Speaker 3: Those bows, so this one. And I didn't really start
Speaker 3: making them until about six or seven years ago. I
Speaker 3: went to that bow building festival I was talking to
Speaker 3: bear about called Ojam in Oklahoma, and uh, I learned
Speaker 3: to build one there and I just fell in love
Speaker 3: with it. So that is that is an osage orange
Speaker 3: boat art. And then it's just got a coppread backing
Speaker 3: their beaver tail handle.
Speaker 1: That really snaky. So describe what snakey means. Bear, It's
Speaker 1: basically like where the grain of the wood kind of
Speaker 1: goes back and forth like a snake, you know, instead
Speaker 1: of just straight. So this one has a lot of
Speaker 1: curves in the limb and you're able to when they're
Speaker 1: that that what I I mean, I understand it. But
Speaker 1: it would be wouldn't be intuitive that even with that curved,
Speaker 1: that curved limb, that bow still shoots straight. Yes, if
Speaker 1: you can get there your arrow we even bob. No,
Speaker 1: as long as that snaky. If your era would like
Speaker 1: curve around the trash and stuff, it'd be nice. That's
Speaker 1: beautiful man, that you're a you're a real craftsman.
Speaker 2: Clay described that for people who are just listening.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Is that a sixty two inch bow or sixty inches
Speaker 3: fifty nine fifty.
Speaker 1: Nine inch bow? It's got a beaver beavertail handle, and
Speaker 1: two big copperhead skins that.
Speaker 4: Don't forget about the turquoise dots.
Speaker 1: Are you scared to touch that?
Speaker 4: No, I said, don't forget about that.
Speaker 1: I was a little scared to touch it was phrasing
Speaker 1: gonna bite me. Yeah, and that's a flax. I made
Speaker 1: the string out of flax. So I wanted everything for
Speaker 1: my Oklahoma bear hunt to be all natural materials, all
Speaker 1: primitive and so yeah, that's my first attempt at a
Speaker 1: flax string. And it works really similar to like a
Speaker 1: decron string. It's really yeah, like the serving is even
Speaker 1: flax on it. And then I carved a little bear
Speaker 1: and underneath the handle, and then inlaid it with crushed turquoise, oh,
Speaker 1: a little spar track. And so you tell me about
Speaker 1: tell me about the bear in Oklahoma like it kind
Speaker 1: of you know, you were the first one to kill
Speaker 1: one with a primitive weapon.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so four, I guess maybe five years ago. I
Speaker 3: went right after I got married. My friend invited me
Speaker 3: on a bear hunt and he was gonna hunt with
Speaker 3: his long bow and I was just going along to film.
Speaker 3: And so I set up in the tree and we
Speaker 3: sat three days, all day sits over bait, and we
Speaker 3: finally had a bear come in. It was a cinnamon
Speaker 3: colored bear came in and I looked over at my
Speaker 3: friend and.
Speaker 1: He was asleep.
Speaker 3: He has four kids, two of our twins, so this
Speaker 3: was kind of his getaway vacation. He was tired, and
Speaker 3: I woke him up and she was twenty five yards
Speaker 3: sitting facing frontal and she winded us and just left.
Speaker 3: But I never had any desire to hunt a bear
Speaker 3: until I saw that bear. And it was my first
Speaker 3: time ever seeing a bear in the wild, and just
Speaker 3: I don't know what it was about him, but I
Speaker 3: just knew, like from that moment on, I was going
Speaker 3: to be, you know, pursuing bear myself, especially in Oklahoma
Speaker 3: because those mountains are where my mom's side the family
Speaker 3: is from, so I grew up going down there every year.
Speaker 3: And it's just so it was a culmination of all
Speaker 3: these different things that were just kind of special to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you were the but you wanted to be
Speaker 1: the first guy, or you were conscious of being the
Speaker 1: first guy to kill a bear at least in modern
Speaker 1: times and recorded history with a completely primitive setup. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: so you were you in a stone point? Now did
Speaker 1: you make the point? Yes?
Speaker 3: I didn't have those, you know, because they're obsidian wood
Speaker 3: shaft deer sin you self knocks deer sindu on the knox,
Speaker 3: and turkey feathers. So I tried for four years just
Speaker 3: I would have bear every year, and then you know
Speaker 3: October one or late September they really started pulling off.
Speaker 3: And then you know, last year, just everything came together.
Speaker 1: And was it just last year that you killed it,
Speaker 1: like twenty three.
Speaker 3: Yes, sir, twenty three, so the oko years ago, that's right, it's.
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty five, that's right, yep. But it was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was an addiction. Like my wife would probably
Speaker 3: tell you, I was unwell, like because I live Central
Speaker 3: Oklahoma's four hours from you know, where my bare lease was.
Speaker 3: So I was driving down twice a week to bait,
Speaker 3: and then last year I was doing that and then
Speaker 3: also going to Arkansas.
Speaker 1: So I mean I love it going on yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so ah that's cool. Did it perform good on the Yeah?
Speaker 3: So I got both lungs and then that stone point
Speaker 3: buried in the off side ribs, so I got good penetration.
Speaker 2: How far away was he when you shot him?
Speaker 3: She was like six or seven yards, I mean right there.
Speaker 1: How high were you in the tree? I wasn't.
Speaker 3: I was probably about eight or nine feet, but because
Speaker 3: I was on a hillside, she was probably only five
Speaker 3: or six feet beneath me. Really, so it was a
Speaker 3: really really close shot and she was a good size sow.
Speaker 1: So you know, the the reason that we made the
Speaker 1: bear pit. Have you seen our bear pit?
Speaker 3: Yes, and I've seen that video.
Speaker 1: It was it was It was pretty intentional because I
Speaker 1: wanted to shoot a bear like five yards on the ground,
Speaker 1: you know, or you know, because I didn't. I didn't
Speaker 1: want to be way up above him and get just
Speaker 1: one entry hole and then not get much blood. I
Speaker 1: wanted to be on the ground, and you know, you could,
Speaker 1: you could have made a little ground blind or something,
Speaker 1: but I felt like digging that hole in the way
Speaker 1: we did it would help us with synth. And it
Speaker 1: turns out it's it's a pretty good strategy. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's cool. Yeah, Yeah, it's fun hunting in there. So
Speaker 1: bear killed one in there this year, which will be
Speaker 1: which will be really cool but.
Speaker 2: Awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So how did how did bears come?
Speaker 3: Because I've seen your video and it just seems to
Speaker 3: pop out of the side like, yeah, just right in
Speaker 3: front of you all of a sudden, did you was
Speaker 3: you similar or did you see.
Speaker 2: It the first day?
Speaker 1: It did exactly that. It came around the right side
Speaker 1: of that triangle and then just stuck its head out,
Speaker 1: like I measured it with the bow and it was
Speaker 1: like four inches past my bow, so I mean it
Speaker 1: was like six feet or something. But the second day,
Speaker 1: whenever I actually killed it, it just came in from
Speaker 1: head on and I shot it and I saw it
Speaker 1: coming from a long wayst Yeah, it didn't just swing
Speaker 1: around the corner like yours. But I ended up shooting
Speaker 1: it at like probably ten yards. When you say, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's like, that's part of the rea. When I didn't
Speaker 1: shoot trad for a long time. That was part of
Speaker 1: the reason I dug the pit is because I didn't
Speaker 1: want to miss one at ten yards, right, I was
Speaker 1: just like I want to shoot one. And that bear
Speaker 1: that I killed for real was as close as that
Speaker 1: one was to you. I mean it just was. It
Speaker 1: just walk right up from me. It was like three
Speaker 1: yards like from here to that light.
Speaker 3: You know, what's the like filling contrast of being in
Speaker 3: a tree versus the ground, Because this year I was
Speaker 3: on the ground and I didn't get a shot at anything. Barriess,
Speaker 3: But is that like a whole new level of nerves
Speaker 3: And I.
Speaker 1: Don't know, is it bear? I don't know. I think
Speaker 1: it's pretty when they just swing around the corner and
Speaker 1: you just don't see him at all, and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, there's a bear six feet from you. That's
Speaker 1: a little more different being on the ground with him
Speaker 1: a little different. But when it came in just head on,
Speaker 1: I would say, it was about like being in a
Speaker 1: tree stand.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well let's let's let's let's do a little let's
Speaker 5: do a little thing here.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, So it's it's twenty twenty five and us
Speaker 1: still a little reflection on last year, twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4: Personal reflection, Bear Grease reflection. Well, I was thinking about
Speaker 4: reflection on the world at large.
Speaker 1: I was thinking about like going through kind of your
Speaker 1: your hunting season highs and lows, which you could, Misty,
Speaker 1: you could you could amend that to fit what you want.
Speaker 1: Did you know that Misty is highly involved in a
Speaker 1: pretty sketchy quilting game, quilting club they called it.
Speaker 4: I had no idea. It was this is going to
Speaker 4: be unveiled here with.
Speaker 1: My mother in law, with Josh's mother in law and
Speaker 1: another lady we won't even we won't even say her name.
Speaker 1: But I mean they're constantly quilting, They're constantly getting you know,
Speaker 1: fabric from weird places and stitching stuff together that should
Speaker 1: never be stitched together. It's uh yeah, and they just
Speaker 1: spend so much time. I just feel like it's taken
Speaker 1: away from their families, market fabric. I feel like there
Speaker 1: it's it's really wild. So if you want to talk
Speaker 1: about that, let's reflect on that. You can h Barret
Speaker 1: tell us about your season start, you know, like just
Speaker 1: take this like a few minutes, like what was what?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 1: What were we were your first hunts? How'd you do?
Speaker 1: My years started off really good, even though it's still
Speaker 1: technically last season. Sure, January, what'd you do? I forgot January?
Speaker 1: Oh wait a minute, that was I thought my Bob
Speaker 1: cows in January. I was in December. Okay, okay, January.
Speaker 1: I got a beaver though with the self bow, which
Speaker 1: was my second critter with the self bow. Uh so yeah,
Speaker 1: started out the year with a nice beaver. Uh and
Speaker 1: then a turkey in the spring public land ozark turkey
Speaker 1: bush whacked him. Yeah, then the honorable bushwhack. That's honorable bushwhack.
Speaker 1: After you've hunted for like ten days, you just do
Speaker 1: whatever it takes, that's right. Yeah, And it's probably harder
Speaker 1: than calling them up. Yeah. Well, and then I made
Speaker 1: my first bow in either February or March. Okay. And
Speaker 1: then so well, oh that was you were using David
Speaker 1: Albright's self bow, got it? So you made you made
Speaker 1: yet first my first four yep? Okay. And then let's
Speaker 1: see summertime, caught a forty two pound catfish, noodle, the
Speaker 1: big catfish.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: We don't talk about fishing on this oh yes, okay, uh,
Speaker 1: and then it doesn't count. Late summer, I killed the
Speaker 1: first critter with the bow that I made to killed
Speaker 1: a hog yeah, the copperhead yep. And then killed the
Speaker 1: bear out of the bear it with the copper head. Yep.
Speaker 1: Now you're you're missing. I was. I was hoping for
Speaker 1: a little bit more reflection on failure. Oh okay, well all,
Speaker 1: my my first bow was a pretty big before I
Speaker 1: actually made one. That shot was a total catastrophe. I
Speaker 1: spent like, you know, six hours on it and then
Speaker 1: was like, I'm going to use a table saw got
Speaker 1: right into the back of it. Okay, big mistake. So
Speaker 1: that that was failure number one probably of the year.
Speaker 1: And then I would say probably the biggest failure was
Speaker 1: I shot a deer opening day with the self bow
Speaker 1: like right above it. It was like three yards public land,
Speaker 1: like a two and a half year old eight point,
Speaker 1: and just shot straight down on it and the arrow
Speaker 1: went all the way through it covered in liver blood.
Speaker 1: So it was an ideal but was still mortal thought.
Speaker 1: I heard the deer crash, and then as I'm getting
Speaker 1: out of my tree, I hear it get up take
Speaker 1: off again. And anyway, I ended up walking like and
Speaker 1: it was thick. That whole area was just as thick
Speaker 1: as could be. I ended up walking like sixteen miles
Speaker 1: looking for it the next couple of days. Never found it.
Speaker 2: That's tough.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I would say that's I helped you look
Speaker 1: for that deer too. Yeah, you put down like two
Speaker 1: or three miles. I thought we would find it. And
Speaker 1: then the night that I shot at had like four
Speaker 1: people out there who also put down a couple of miles.
Speaker 1: So there were a lot of miles put into that
Speaker 1: deer and we never found it, which was devastating because
Speaker 1: it just was like, yeah, it was first day public
Speaker 1: land over here in some tough public land, and he
Speaker 1: shot a nice buck. He got a picture of it
Speaker 1: right before it walked by. Yeah, isn't that right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was like it was on the bigger end of it,
Speaker 1: two and a half. It was a nice It was
Speaker 1: a nice buck. And I can see from being right
Speaker 1: above it, like the tip of it. Couldn't find it.
Speaker 1: But I wouldn't expect you to tell that failure story.
Speaker 4: But well that was the most That was the biggest
Speaker 4: feeling was.
Speaker 1: The started it all in from there. Just the deer,
Speaker 1: tough deer season. Yeah, okay, so that yeah, I'd say
Speaker 1: that's it, Josh.
Speaker 2: I had four goals this year outdoor goalsky. I only
Speaker 2: made one of them, Okay, okay, yeah I had. My
Speaker 2: first goal was to kill turkey, and I went hunting
Speaker 2: and put in some miles and tough hunting, tough turkey
Speaker 2: hunting in Arkansas. Couldn't find couldn't get on a bird.
Speaker 2: My second goal, and I don't care what you say
Speaker 2: about fishing, My second goal was to catch a twenty
Speaker 2: five inch brown trout this year, and I caught a
Speaker 2: twenty three inch brown trout. Twenty five inch, oh man,
Speaker 2: so close. My third goal was to kill a but
Speaker 2: kill a deer with a bow because I'd been out
Speaker 2: of the bow hunting game for many years, yep, and
Speaker 2: I got back into it, and I like, I really like,
Speaker 2: I really put in the time and effort. You know,
Speaker 2: I tried to shoot one hundred arrows a day for
Speaker 2: several weeks before deer season, you know, just really dial
Speaker 2: it in. Just met with the bow professional at the
Speaker 2: bow shop and he helped fix my shot, and you know,
Speaker 2: I really felt good about my shooting. And of course
Speaker 2: right early season had a really had a thirty yard
Speaker 2: shot at a really nice buck, and all that learning
Speaker 2: and effort I put in went out the window and
Speaker 2: I just got bow fever and just shot the old
Speaker 2: style and completely missed him. So that was the third failure.
Speaker 2: The fourth one was just to kill a buck this year,
Speaker 2: and I got a decent buck with a rifle, so
Speaker 2: I'm happy about that one. So those are my Those
Speaker 2: are my four goals. As I reflect on twenty twenty four,
Speaker 2: which you know, we've still got a few days left here,
Speaker 2: I know we're recording anything. Anything. I could go out
Speaker 2: and it's true, catch my brown trout. I mean not
Speaker 2: legally get a turkey, but I could kill a deer
Speaker 2: with my bow. And you didn't get the twenty five.
Speaker 1: That's a good year, you know what. I'm proud of you.
Speaker 1: I think you just went out there and and and tried.
Speaker 1: I mean that did I find a lot of times goals,
Speaker 1: you set a goal and then half half of it
Speaker 1: is just going and trying, and then you're like okay,
Speaker 1: and you kind of set your expectations and you're like, well,
Speaker 1: you know what, if I'm going to kill a turkey,
Speaker 1: I guess I'm going to have to hunt a little
Speaker 1: more than I did, or go to a different spot,
Speaker 1: or you know, go in a different time, or you know,
Speaker 1: you just learn stuff.
Speaker 4: Says the The people who show up are always there
Speaker 4: when our luck happens, when luck happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 4: Chef's pretty he's full of inspiration.
Speaker 1: I think it was a little tighter than that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, he's full of inspiration.
Speaker 1: Now bear what I was actually wanting to talk about
Speaker 1: failing man? No, I thought you would bring up our
Speaker 1: Montana bear hunt. Oh that was a job you didn't
Speaker 1: you didn't fail on that? Well, yeah that was also
Speaker 1: you actually didn't. You didn't fail at all. But I
Speaker 1: was I was hoping that would be in the in
Speaker 1: the in the story arc because it was a big deal.
Speaker 1: We went, we were going for like twelve days. I've
Speaker 1: been trying to forget about that, so yeah, thanks for
Speaker 1: salting that one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's take fires day.
Speaker 1: I'm open to that. I plan to. You really don't
Speaker 1: have to focus on the bad things. That was actually
Speaker 1: was just trying to get buried and talk about going
Speaker 1: to Montana and not killing Beart. That's all. And then
Speaker 1: now we're but this, actually it might play right into
Speaker 1: my hand when we talk about the bear Grease podcast
Speaker 1: this week, the bear Grease time Machine. Yes, because Misty
Speaker 1: said that she noticed a theme. Once you go midway,
Speaker 1: go ahead and tell the theme that you noticed in
Speaker 1: the bear Grease podcast.
Speaker 4: Well, listening to the bear Grease podcast for this most
Speaker 4: recent week, and it was kind of my snapshots of
Speaker 4: like some of the highlights from the best of all time.
Speaker 1: I guess, well, just just ones that stood out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, ones that stood out. What I noticed is that
Speaker 4: they all kind of shared a theme of difficulty, trial, failure, suffering,
Speaker 4: you know, things that we typically associate with not good,
Speaker 4: but in the you know, they were all just sort
Speaker 4: of themes about yeah, struggle and failure and what good
Speaker 4: came out redemption redemption.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they were all I kind of picked up
Speaker 1: on a theme of just being some outlaw and in
Speaker 1: three of them, which I'm not four, but I find
Speaker 1: myself and.
Speaker 2: Talk about it a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I do. I do. Point.
Speaker 2: I think you secretly, like deep down inside, wish you'd
Speaker 2: been a I wish you'd been an outlaw in a
Speaker 2: previous life.
Speaker 4: Well, i'll tell you what it is. I don't think
Speaker 4: it's that. I think it's that Clay he likes people.
Speaker 4: He's always been really drawn to people who have very
Speaker 4: a very strong sense of personal identity. True, and I
Speaker 4: think that in Outlaws he finds people who in particular
Speaker 4: personal identity that goes against the trends. There you go,
Speaker 4: And I think that an Outlaws.
Speaker 2: That's why.
Speaker 4: There's probably more reasons just that.
Speaker 1: A few more reasons than that. I think you're right,
Speaker 1: though I know you're right, and a lot of times
Speaker 1: I find well, I don't want to. Yeah, I said
Speaker 1: on the podcast, my intent was never to glamorize breaking
Speaker 1: the law, and somebody could probably make an argument that
Speaker 1: I have, but that is not my intent.
Speaker 2: I think I think you've made it pretty clear that
Speaker 2: the way these stories of these outlaws have turned out
Speaker 2: have brought redemption into either their own personal lives of
Speaker 2: the lives of their family members. Yeah, and so I
Speaker 2: think that's the thing that really that is really celebrated
Speaker 2: inside of these stories.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Well we're going to talk about those, but
Speaker 1: but but perhaps talking about some of our you know,
Speaker 1: goals that we've achieved and failures we'll play into the
Speaker 1: later conversation. Caleb, how was your hunting season? Man?
Speaker 3: I would say really good for this year that me
Speaker 3: and my wife just welcomed our first baby and May graduation.
Speaker 3: We were super excited. We were married six years, so
Speaker 3: it was it was time. It was time, and I
Speaker 3: knew that was going to change hunting season, but I
Speaker 3: still wanted to do some bear hunting Oklahoma. I didn't
Speaker 3: have any time to go down there and bait or anything,
Speaker 3: but just hunting National Forest. After a couple of days
Speaker 3: in hiking quite a few miles, I did find a
Speaker 3: whole bunch of fresh bear sign and I sat up
Speaker 3: on a spring fed pond at altitude where there were
Speaker 3: a ton of white oaks dropping and uh, I actually
Speaker 3: had a group of turkeys come in and I missed
Speaker 3: a turkey I don't want to leave bear hanging out
Speaker 3: on the self.
Speaker 1: Okay, so it was.
Speaker 4: Like I didn't get a turkey either, just to be.
Speaker 3: It was like ten yards too. It was a chip shot.
Speaker 3: So but then I came back home and then hunted.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 1: I don't hunt right where I live. I live.
Speaker 3: I hunt about an hour. I won't say which direction
Speaker 3: from where I live. But I did harvest two really
Speaker 3: really nice bucks, and I was. I was really.
Speaker 1: Happy with that because the year with your bows, Yes,
Speaker 1: you're with my self, bows man, that's a big deal
Speaker 1: to kill to any kind of deer with yourself both. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I didn't hunt that much this year. In the
Speaker 1: previous year, I hunted ten times harder and I ended
Speaker 1: up with one with my bow. And then I did
Speaker 1: take the gun for the first time in a while
Speaker 1: and shot on with my gun. But okay, for the
Speaker 1: amount of time I got to go out, I was.
Speaker 1: I was really blessed this year in the woods for sure.
Speaker 1: Nice cool man. Uh you know what I think? I
Speaker 1: think that Uh. I think if I only had like
Speaker 1: four days a year to hunt, I would probably kill
Speaker 1: more deer than I do. Right now, What do you mean?
Speaker 1: I mean? Because I I would pick the four best
Speaker 1: days of the year to go hunting. I wouldn't. It's
Speaker 1: kind of like, I love to go hunting. I want
Speaker 1: to go, So I might come out after this podcast
Speaker 1: on January first and be like, you know what, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go sit in a tree stand for a couple hours,
Speaker 1: and you know, the conditions aren't great. You know, it's warm,
Speaker 1: or maybe I don't have animals on camera or whatever.
Speaker 1: If you only had four or five days to hunt
Speaker 1: and you could pick those days, you'd be going into
Speaker 1: your spots and they would be super fresh. That's something
Speaker 1: I learned this year hunting a new place that I
Speaker 1: was hunting that actually didn't get to go to until
Speaker 1: the first time I ever set foot on the property
Speaker 1: was on November the eighth, never been there, just seeing
Speaker 1: it on X and went in there, and I mean,
Speaker 1: those deer hadn't been messed with. They were it was
Speaker 1: prime time, you know, and I thought, Man, if I'd
Speaker 1: have been over here messing around down since October first,
Speaker 1: or you know, yeah, I would have messed things up.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes not having much time is good. So
Speaker 1: you're not going to mention that you missed two deer
Speaker 1: that day, it's not.
Speaker 4: It is your turn. No, no, well, I actually just
Speaker 4: perused through my phone to see that was pretty good here.
Speaker 4: I just went and perused through my phone to see,
Speaker 4: like what happened this year? Kind of big stuff all
Speaker 4: around we Mary John.
Speaker 1: Graduated, joined a gang. Oh forgot about that.
Speaker 4: Mary John graduated high school.
Speaker 2: Our oldest daughter a success, our failure success, made it.
Speaker 4: Out, made it out. Our oldest daughter got married. So
Speaker 4: there's a lot of like wedding stuff in my photo.
Speaker 4: Quick perusal of things. Uh, watched a lot of basketball
Speaker 4: m hm, ship played a lot of basketball. Our other
Speaker 4: daughter has, she's started a business, got a new job,
Speaker 4: a couple of different jobs. Uh like, didn't lose a
Speaker 4: couple jobs, like working two jobs, work at two jobs.
Speaker 4: So a lot of a lot of activity around around
Speaker 4: the family. I did. I did when my oldest daughter
Speaker 4: got married. I wanted to make her quilt, and so
Speaker 4: I made one and that kind of got some quilt
Speaker 4: see going, and we decided to keep making them, so
Speaker 4: we made several quilts. We made four quilts since June.
Speaker 4: Pretty impressive. Yeah, I wouldn't call it a gang. They're
Speaker 4: pretty pretty moderate people, you know, pretty moderate people. But
Speaker 4: I would say there's been a lot of stuff that
Speaker 4: I have not had time to do, like.
Speaker 1: Failures.
Speaker 4: Yeah, these be my failures, are you know? I usually
Speaker 4: garden a little bit heavier than I did this year.
Speaker 4: We did grow the flowers for are some of the
Speaker 4: flowers for our daughter's wedding. A friend grew a bunch
Speaker 4: of them. So we did some things like that. But really,
Speaker 4: after the wedding you gave up. Well, it's not that
Speaker 4: I gave I had a surgery right after, so it
Speaker 4: was just kind of like we just were busy and
Speaker 4: the good planning times were focused on different stuff, and so.
Speaker 2: We've gotten to the age where we just have surgeries now.
Speaker 1: Yea.
Speaker 4: But to be fair, mine was a surgery that probably
Speaker 4: should have happened when I was a teenager. I got
Speaker 4: my wisdom teeth taken out this summer.
Speaker 1: Oh, that doesn't count as the surgery. I was sitting
Speaker 1: here thinking what surgery.
Speaker 4: Well, I didn't really want to go into all of it.
Speaker 4: Thanks for mocking it. I had had a ridiculous recovery.
Speaker 4: A bear grease listener bailed me out though, Oh really yeah,
Speaker 4: big shout out to doctor Cross in Bayetteville. If you
Speaker 4: ever need your wisdom teeth taken out, go to that guy.
Speaker 1: Wow, I had.
Speaker 4: I had a kind of tough recovery and I ended
Speaker 4: up pivoting to him.
Speaker 1: Doctor Cross and Fable, Arkansas.
Speaker 4: Yeah, incredible.
Speaker 1: Now, I wasn't saying that I didn't know. I knew
Speaker 1: you had your wisdom teeth.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you were just diminishing. Let's talk about Clay. You're right,
Speaker 4: it's it wasn't like a life threatening surgery.
Speaker 1: I just saying that the lexicon of of dental surgery
Speaker 1: wasn't there.
Speaker 2: So I gall bladder out and he didn't know about it.
Speaker 4: It was like, I hope that that if I have
Speaker 4: a surgery, Clay would know about it. I mean I
Speaker 4: do hope that. I hope. I would like to think
Speaker 4: that he would. Anyway, I just didn't. And then school
Speaker 4: started and things.
Speaker 1: Were busy so great. Did you get to do any hunting?
Speaker 4: I duck hunted, Yeah you did. I did, and I
Speaker 4: was a shoe one. I was told I shot an
Speaker 4: awful lot and surely one of them's mind.
Speaker 2: Many many rounds came out of.
Speaker 4: Duck hunting, like like just kind of going, yeah, I
Speaker 4: do enjoy that.
Speaker 1: Friend, the one, the one, the one duck she really
Speaker 1: legitimately killed. It was like six teal that came in
Speaker 1: just like I mean, they.
Speaker 6: Just swooped in and she just boom. I mean just like,
Speaker 6: I mean it didn't even look like she aimed. Were
Speaker 6: like good shot. Yeah, it just about like that, didn't
Speaker 6: I think? So, Yeah, good job.
Speaker 4: I do enjoy it. And it's about time to go, duck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, filmmaker wants to go.
Speaker 4: I want to set her up for a dunk. I
Speaker 4: want to. I want to. I think I can maybe
Speaker 4: work that out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Uh, I'm gonna go chronologically so I'll get
Speaker 1: to missing those deer. But I'd say the perhaps the
Speaker 1: biggest failure this year was I'd hope to have a
Speaker 1: coon dog by twenty twenty four, and it didn't happen.
Speaker 4: In fact, we lost were net.
Speaker 1: Yeah lost we lost it. We lost it. Not a
Speaker 1: good coon dog, but.
Speaker 4: Gave very good dog. Ye, a retired coon dog.
Speaker 1: He gave us, He gave it all he did. No, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we we lost jed uh. But I'd hope to kind
Speaker 1: of just get things in order to get a coon dog,
Speaker 1: and I haven't yet. But in twenty twenty five, it's
Speaker 1: like happening. I've got I've got a pup lined up
Speaker 1: out of Ohio that I'm going to go get soon,
Speaker 1: so there'll be more on that spring. Turkey hunted had
Speaker 1: had a decent spring turkey season, killed the turkey, and
Speaker 1: Tennessee killed the turkey. Mississippi with Lake Pickle had a
Speaker 1: that was good.
Speaker 7: No Arkansas turkey, So no, no, no about I'm kind
Speaker 7: of just letting letting them, letting them do their thing
Speaker 7: without without me getting after him.
Speaker 1: Uh. The highlight of the year, I would say, from
Speaker 1: from a hunting perspective was, uh was I. I went
Speaker 1: to Alaska on a mountain goat hunt in August and
Speaker 1: uh killed a mountain goat, which was one of the
Speaker 1: one of the toughest hunts that I've ever done. And uh,
Speaker 1: actually a film is going to come out early in
Speaker 1: the year, early this year about about the hunt. It's
Speaker 1: going to come out on the media YouTube channel, which
Speaker 1: is going to be I haven't I mean we haven't.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it yet, but I was there, so
Speaker 1: I kind of know what happened, and it was it
Speaker 1: was a scary, very scary hunts. Most scared I've ever
Speaker 1: been in any hunting scenario, well, really any scenario in
Speaker 1: my life. It got pretty sketchy with high altitudes and
Speaker 1: on a cliff, recovering the goat got really sketchy. So
Speaker 1: that was a big deal. Oh, I will say if
Speaker 1: I'm talking about kind of outdoor stuff. A highlight of
Speaker 1: the year but also a struggle of the year was
Speaker 1: the Meat Eater Live Tour, which was fourteen days going
Speaker 1: from like April twentieth, like May seventh or something. And
Speaker 1: it was a great time. But I had to sing
Speaker 1: every single night, well ten nights, basically in a row
Speaker 1: in front of a bunch of people, and uh that
Speaker 1: was from the mountain. Go That's the most scared I've
Speaker 1: ever been in my life.
Speaker 2: How many record deals were offered to.
Speaker 1: California, I'm still waiting. I'm still waiting, still waiting. No,
Speaker 1: but I had had a I didn't really bear hunt
Speaker 1: much this year in the in oh in the spring
Speaker 1: your biggest Western bear, well, yeah, killed my biggest Western
Speaker 1: bear with on a hunt with bear. We took our
Speaker 1: mules to Montana and uh killed a big color phrase
Speaker 1: bear in Montana, which was really cool that I think
Speaker 1: we just got by the skin of our teeth like that. Hunt.
Speaker 1: We killed a bear and and it turned out really good.
Speaker 1: But we were like that far from going home with
Speaker 1: nothing killed on the sixth day of a seven day
Speaker 1: hunt and a spot we hadn't even been to. Kind
Speaker 1: of just just hike, you know. I want to say,
Speaker 1: I don't want to say we got lucky because we did.
Speaker 1: What you do when you bear hunt is that you
Speaker 1: just keep you just keep pounding, you keep going to
Speaker 1: new areas and there when the luck comes around and
Speaker 1: get It's like shep says, you got to be there
Speaker 1: when the luck shows up. But we did some stuff
Speaker 1: right when we found where a bear was, you know,
Speaker 1: and so I felt good about that. And then I
Speaker 1: had a good year, pretty good year. Yeah, I had
Speaker 1: a pretty good year bow hunting for deer, used my compound.
Speaker 1: How could it get better? Well, man, Gary Newcomb put
Speaker 1: this in me, and I'm forty five. I guess it's
Speaker 1: not leaving if I don't kill a buck in Arkansas,
Speaker 1: I just I don't. I just am kind of like ah,
Speaker 1: like Gary Newkeomb, he he loved to bow hunt. Caleb.
Speaker 1: I mean he's still he's Wow, he's not hunting a
Speaker 1: lot right now, but I mean he's still alive, and
Speaker 1: he would always he would say, if you can't do
Speaker 1: it at home, you don't have any business going off
Speaker 1: somewhere else to try to do it.
Speaker 3: Okay, so you're saying it's it just can damp in
Speaker 3: your whole season. You can do everything, but if you
Speaker 3: don't get a home state deer, Okay.
Speaker 1: I mean for real, I can't help it. Like I
Speaker 1: I when I think about my season, I'm just like, oh, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I killed deer in Oklahoma because a nice one in Kansas.
Speaker 1: And I mean, I'm telling you, they just don't feel
Speaker 1: like they count because those places are so good. You
Speaker 1: did kill more like total inches of deer this year. Like,
Speaker 1: have you ever killed.
Speaker 4: Records here? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Just after what I did to you, I probably have.
Speaker 1: I had a couple of couple of years I rekilled
Speaker 1: two bucks over. I'd have to think about it. Yeah
Speaker 1: maybe maybe. But you're right, and I'm not. Well, I'm
Speaker 1: still gonna I've still got a tag left that I'm
Speaker 1: hoping to feel. But no, I don't want to take
Speaker 1: anything away from those other bucks I'm having. I had
Speaker 1: the time of my life hunting in Kansas and Oklahoma.
Speaker 1: I truly did. But when I like, in the in
Speaker 1: the corners of my mind, in the in the darkness
Speaker 1: of the night, I am like, well, I didn't get
Speaker 1: one in Arkansas. But I really didn't hunt much in
Speaker 1: Arkansas because Bear brought up my failures. The first time
Speaker 1: I went to this property that I got access to
Speaker 1: this year, I it was November the eighth, never been
Speaker 1: there and was just walking around. The first time I
Speaker 1: got out of the truck, I saw a buck and
Speaker 1: a dough and I was just like, Wow, cool, man,
Speaker 1: there's there's some deer. I wasn't expecting to really see
Speaker 1: any deer. The next time I got out of the truck,
Speaker 1: I walked into a spot I wanted to looked up
Speaker 1: on on X and went to wanted to see it.
Speaker 1: I got to the spot and there was a buck
Speaker 1: making a scrape like just right there, and he just
Speaker 1: jumped out there like twenty yards and turned around and
Speaker 1: watched me. And I was like, I could shoot that deer,
Speaker 1: and it was nice. It was a nice little buck.
Speaker 1: I'd have probably shot him. And so the next time
Speaker 1: I just hit it at this like that day of
Speaker 1: the year that it was just incredible. So I said, man,
Speaker 1: the next time I get out of the truck, and
Speaker 1: I was just scouting, never been here, like I'm gonna
Speaker 1: carry a bow and man, ave darn if I didn't
Speaker 1: get out of my truck and walk sixty yards and
Speaker 1: I see a nice probably three and a half year
Speaker 1: old eight point And I'd been training for shooting a
Speaker 1: mountain goat, and so I mean I was shooting long distance.
Speaker 1: I mean I you know, on the range. I mean
Speaker 1: I could dial that bow to eighty yards and shoot good.
Speaker 1: This deer was at sixty and he was standing there broadside,
Speaker 1: not a twig between us. I had time to dial
Speaker 1: my my sight in, take my time, and I was
Speaker 1: kind of waiting for him to run off because I
Speaker 1: really didn't want to shoot at it.
Speaker 4: What podcast listeners are missing is Clay loosening up his
Speaker 4: shoulders and.
Speaker 1: Kind And I was just like, come on, dude, run off.
Speaker 1: And he didn't run off, And so I just drew
Speaker 1: back and put it low because I knew he was
Speaker 1: going to duck the string shot and by the time
Speaker 1: the ear got there, he was about probably eight feet
Speaker 1: to the to the west in that area. Just went
Speaker 1: I ca cank hang, I'm sure he didn't. And uh
Speaker 1: so I did shoot at that deer. And then that afternoon,
Speaker 1: I didn't have time to hang a stand, and I
Speaker 1: just found a little pinch point and and and sat
Speaker 1: down in this pinch point and built a little little
Speaker 1: brush line of cedar bushes, and uh.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 1: I didn't have a chair to sit in, and so
Speaker 1: I was kind of moving around a little bit, but
Speaker 1: I was I was hitting pretty good, and but I
Speaker 1: couldn't see beyond the bushes. It was kind of one
Speaker 1: of these deals where I had to kind of lean up,
Speaker 1: and I knew if I heard one or saw one coming,
Speaker 1: I could stay, hunker down, draw back, and do whatever
Speaker 1: I was going to do. Well this buck. I heard
Speaker 1: this buck and messed around, and I think he saw
Speaker 1: me moving a little bit in the meat a little bit.
Speaker 1: And I think it was it was that day they
Speaker 1: were rutting so hard. I think that buck saw movement
Speaker 1: and just ran straight towards it, because he literally ran
Speaker 1: straight towards me. And I'm like, holy count, who it comes?
Speaker 1: And I get my bow and get drawn, and a
Speaker 1: by the time I get drawn, he just like slams
Speaker 1: on the brakes at about five yards. I mean, he
Speaker 1: was coming to me right. There's no reason for him
Speaker 1: to come over there, and anyway, he he I didn't
Speaker 1: want to shoot him head on and he uh, that's
Speaker 1: not that's not true. I didn't draw my bow yet.
Speaker 1: I got ready and he bounced there and we just
Speaker 1: kind of stared down, and then he took two big
Speaker 1: bounces and I drew and I thought he was thirty
Speaker 1: and he was twenty four, and it just shot right
Speaker 1: over his back. That was the same day. So I
Speaker 1: was calling Bear every every deer I saw. I was
Speaker 1: just like, I just missed one. I just saw one.
Speaker 1: I just so there we go. Sorry to bring it up,
Speaker 1: but I felt like I had Yeah you did, you did?
Speaker 1: You absolutely had to. Wow. Have we been talking forty
Speaker 1: six minutes?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: What did y'all? What did y'all think of the what'd
Speaker 1: you think of the podcast? Caleb? Would you have heard
Speaker 1: those pod some of those podcasts before.
Speaker 3: I'd heard uh Gershtalker, I'd heard the Donnie Baker. I
Speaker 3: think I heard one of Warner Glenn's. Yeah, so i'd
Speaker 3: heard those, and then the rest were the first time
Speaker 3: i'd heard those kippets.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, any of them stand out to you, Like,
Speaker 1: do you have any thoughts about Yeah?
Speaker 3: The Gershtalker one, you know, just really the thing that
Speaker 3: stood out to me was the dogs. So like I
Speaker 3: grew up, we were homeschooled, and we always had dogs.
Speaker 3: We raised boy and spaniels and sold them and so
Speaker 3: we had a lot of good dogs. And as a kid, like,
Speaker 3: when you're raising a lot of dogs, you're going to
Speaker 3: see some, you know, dying. So we lost some good dogs.
Speaker 3: And like, I just think about how much, you know,
Speaker 3: that hurts and doesn't feel good to lose a good dog.
Speaker 3: And then I was at work last night. My wife
Speaker 3: calls me and I could tell something was wrong, and
Speaker 3: so it was like, oh no, and she told me
Speaker 3: that our our family dog of ten years she had
Speaker 3: found last night dead.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was our family dog my mom had rescued
Speaker 3: off the streets and whatever ten years ago and just
Speaker 3: a really good Great Pyrenees Anatolian dog that just was
Speaker 3: a good guard dog for the property. And uh so
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, man, that that's makes me feel sad
Speaker 3: or whatever. And then when you listen to that and
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about this dog that's on a property that
Speaker 3: I see every day, that I pet occasionally, you know,
Speaker 3: like that hurts to lose that dog, And I'm thinking
Speaker 3: about these guys on the frontier and this dog is
Speaker 3: you know, not only their companion in this remote expanse
Speaker 3: of wilderness. You know, some nights serve by a fire
Speaker 3: and that's the only friend they may have. But they're
Speaker 3: relying on that dog to put food on the table.
Speaker 3: And then to watch four of those dogs get killed,
Speaker 3: you know, in a few seconds, like I can only
Speaker 3: imagine like the heartache, and like that's obviously why they
Speaker 3: risk their lives to you know, yeah, so then you know,
Speaker 3: and then to you know, ger Stoker to wake up
Speaker 3: the next day like seeing it's not a bad dream,
Speaker 3: it's real, like for your dogs and your friend, Like, man,
Speaker 3: it's just that's just sad. Yeah, yeah, it just like
Speaker 3: breaks your heart.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, that was a that was a wild story
Speaker 1: that that every time I read it or hear it,
Speaker 1: like they're I'm just it's just such a way. It's
Speaker 1: has so many complexities in it, from them bear hunting
Speaker 1: in the eighteen forties, which is cool, but them bear
Speaker 1: hunting with hounds owned by Native Americans, and then I
Speaker 1: can't remember if in that little section it said it,
Speaker 1: but there was Cherokees and choktaws in that camp and
Speaker 1: then for the bear to kill him. And you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of little inference points of authentification when
Speaker 1: you hear some of these old stories, because you know,
Speaker 1: some stories are like tall tales and just aren't true.
Speaker 1: But when I heard that story and I heard that
Speaker 1: Girshtalker went in to save the dog or Erskine went
Speaker 1: in to save the dogs, that is the exact response that,
Speaker 1: like every big game houndsman would have. It's just like period,
Speaker 1: which is kind of surprising, because you would think if
Speaker 1: your dogs were attacking a bear, wouldn't You wouldn't risk
Speaker 1: your life to save the dog. You just wouldn't be
Speaker 1: It was like dogs are just a tool, you know,
Speaker 1: if they die, it's not as that big of a deal.
Speaker 1: But holy cow, you're exactly right. I mean, these houndsmen
Speaker 1: view these dogs. I mean they hold them in very
Speaker 1: high esteem and they did back then. And uh, I
Speaker 1: think if that story was made up, they wouldn't have
Speaker 1: they wouldn't have done that. I mean, I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: not even suggesting that the story isn't real, but like
Speaker 1: a point of authentication, like yeah, those guys how big
Speaker 1: anything that bear was shoot. I don't know. It wouldn't
Speaker 1: have had to have been very big to kill a
Speaker 1: man and a bunch of dogs. I mean a lot
Speaker 1: of times these guys say that the the smaller bears
Speaker 1: are are the are the bad ones?
Speaker 4: You know, you saying that there's a I heard Michael Lewis,
Speaker 4: who's a well known author. He was given an interview
Speaker 4: and he said, the fiction in when you're writing fiction,
Speaker 4: it has to be plausible. When you're writing truth, it doesn't.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And if they wouldn't have had a I was just
Speaker 4: thinking about you. You would not have thought people would
Speaker 4: give their lives for their risk their lives for their dogs. Yeah,
Speaker 4: bears grease.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say that story when I
Speaker 1: read that, I don't know when. It would have been
Speaker 1: in the early two thousands sometime. That was the first
Speaker 1: time I'd ever consciously seen the word bear Grease. Was
Speaker 1: was him talking about his dog, and I was like grease,
Speaker 1: and I went and and that's kind of what put
Speaker 1: me on the trail of rendering bear fat And uh. Anyway,
Speaker 1: as I give credit to old Gershtalker for that, I.
Speaker 4: Always thought the dog's name was was actually Bear Grease.
Speaker 1: But it was Bear's grease, Bear's grease. But that story
Speaker 1: was translated from Germany into English, so Gershdagger wrote it
Speaker 1: in German like the dude could barely speak English, but
Speaker 1: you guys might not be able to police and Sebacher, Josh,
Speaker 1: which one stood out to you?
Speaker 2: You know, I'm always impacted when I hear stories about
Speaker 2: Warner Glenn. Yeah, I think, you know, talking about redemption.
Speaker 2: I have great admiration for a man who makes a
Speaker 2: big mistake and learns from it. And I think I
Speaker 2: think you could tell in his voice and in the
Speaker 2: way that he communicated about assaulting the border patrol agent
Speaker 2: that he recognized that, hey, this was me letting my
Speaker 2: emotions and my feelings come unchecked and uh and having
Speaker 2: a physical response to that. And I think I think
Speaker 2: that's something that he He showed great gratitude that he
Speaker 2: didn't go to jail, you know what I mean. He recognized,
Speaker 2: like this could have gone south really really quick, and
Speaker 2: he didn't let it happen again. You know, I think
Speaker 2: I think that taught him an incredible lesson. And to
Speaker 2: be able to learn a lesson from a situation like that,
Speaker 2: you know, there's a scripture that talks about a wise
Speaker 2: man falls seven times, but it's in the getting back
Speaker 2: up that is the where the honor comes from. And
Speaker 2: I think he got back up, you know, and he
Speaker 2: learned from it, and so I think that's the one
Speaker 2: that that really stood out to me.
Speaker 1: And you know, the rest of that podcast, it talks
Speaker 1: about how he became this really strong diplomat dealing with
Speaker 1: people that had way different viewpoints than him. So you know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't necessarily dealing with border agents, I mean, but
Speaker 1: but but he dealing with the federal government, dealing with
Speaker 1: through his that Malpai Borderlands group, like they became like
Speaker 1: really effective, and so he had to he had to
Speaker 1: kind of like slow down. But uh yeah, yeah, if
Speaker 1: you hadn't listened to that episode, it's uh, I wish,
Speaker 1: I wish. Uh Tessa's got something treated out here. Squirrels
Speaker 1: see a squirrel? Uh yeah, No, that Warner Glenn. Really
Speaker 1: when I got to know Warner Glenn that episode, I
Speaker 1: literally drove to Douglas. Now we we drove, me and
Speaker 1: Mike Schultz drove to New Mexico and just met with
Speaker 1: him for a few hours and then left. But I
Speaker 1: would later come back and spend five days with him
Speaker 1: at his ranch and when we filmed, and that's when
Speaker 1: I really got to know Warner. I kind of wish
Speaker 1: we'd have done that episode after. I think, yeah, it
Speaker 1: would have been it, just it would have been a
Speaker 1: little better. When I heard it, I just pulling a
Speaker 1: clip out of the podcast, I recognize that, like we
Speaker 1: didn't have the rapport that we would later have together,
Speaker 1: you know. But I came home from that trip Warner
Speaker 1: and was truly impacted by the man's humility, work ethic,
Speaker 1: and the way that he made everyone feel. I don't
Speaker 1: think I've ever been around a person that did what
Speaker 1: he did. And it wasn't just what he said, it
Speaker 1: was just who he was. But he would the way
Speaker 1: he would treat the cameramen that get these guys that
Speaker 1: you know are like behind the scenes. He was just
Speaker 1: like super encouraging, NonStop. And I came home and and
Speaker 1: really was impacted by Warner. Glenn. Yeah, an incredible work ethic.
Speaker 1: One time he was waking up, we had a big
Speaker 1: film crew, and so he was saddling like seven mules
Speaker 1: and then trailering them and we were trailering them like
Speaker 1: two hours to where we were line hunting, and we
Speaker 1: were trying to be where we were line hunting by daylight.
Speaker 1: So he was waking up at like three am to
Speaker 1: saddle mules. Wow. And one day he I said, hey,
Speaker 1: I'll help you saddle the mules. And he said okay.
Speaker 1: He said, be out here in the kitchen, and I
Speaker 1: promise you missed it. He said, three fifteen. Mister Warner,
Speaker 1: if you're listening to this, you know that I love you.
Speaker 1: He said, be out here at three fifteen. Well, so
Speaker 1: I wake up about three and get dressed, and I
Speaker 1: keep hearing him out in the out in the out
Speaker 1: in the kitchen, and he's like out there early and
Speaker 1: I step out there at three fifteen and he's like
Speaker 1: he didn't say anything, but I could tell I was late, right,
Speaker 1: And I was like three fifteen. I don't remember the
Speaker 1: exact but I remember him being like, you're late, young man,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I didn't defend myself, but I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm a pretty sure he's that three fifteen,
Speaker 1: not three, but he was. He was very nice to me,
Speaker 1: but I could tell I let him down. So, mister Warner,
Speaker 1: I have a feeling Morner Glenn's not gonna listen to
Speaker 1: this episode. Yeah, I think not probably so bear. Which
Speaker 1: one stood that to you? I think definitely the gersh
Speaker 1: Talker one too, really, yeah, because I would have grown
Speaker 1: up like hearing that story. Yeah, whenever I was a
Speaker 1: little kid, You're like reading that book to me. But
Speaker 1: there were a few interesting points. The first one was
Speaker 1: that he said, like the wolves came around and started
Speaker 1: howling yep, which like we don't have wolves here anymore.
Speaker 1: I guess that would have been like red wolves though, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I made a mistake. I think I said
Speaker 1: gray wolves. But there wouldn't have been like a gray
Speaker 1: wolf or a timber wolf. It would have been Yeah.
Speaker 1: But like two, what was interesting about it was that
Speaker 1: like two hundred years ago or however long ago that was,
Speaker 1: it was like a totally different ward because wasn't he
Speaker 1: after like a woodland bison? Yep? And I mean he
Speaker 1: killed he was here seven years and he killed one
Speaker 1: single woodland bison. Yeah, and he and he that's why
Speaker 1: he came to Arkansas. Is he wanted to kill a bison?
Speaker 1: Well yeah, but yeah, And it's like I know, like
Speaker 1: here in that really that those stories growing up and
Speaker 1: then now like hunting in those areas or just kind
Speaker 1: of you know, in the Ozarks in general, just kind
Speaker 1: of going around. It's like it's pretty unique to think
Speaker 1: how or it's just cool to think of how different
Speaker 1: it would have been then, because like you go to
Speaker 1: like areas where they've never logged before, and the trees
Speaker 1: are like giant in the woods are just like totally different,
Speaker 1: and it's like that's how everywhere would have been. And
Speaker 1: so like now whenever I'm kind of out and about,
Speaker 1: it's like it's hard to really comprehend, but like the
Speaker 1: woods would have looked like he would have been in
Speaker 1: like a totally different but it's been a little bit
Speaker 1: like a different planet. Yeah, And so yeah, I thought
Speaker 1: that story was really cool, But then the other one
Speaker 1: was just kind of like the yeah, how wild of
Speaker 1: an experience that would have been. Like the part that
Speaker 1: really got me was, you know, Erskine's arms lifting up
Speaker 1: and his eyes wouldn't shut, and like just yeah, you
Speaker 1: can just imagine now he had to lay rocks on
Speaker 1: Erskine's eyes so that his eyes didn't glimmer in the
Speaker 1: fire and freak him out. Yeah, but yeah, it just
Speaker 1: would have been And then the dead dogs and the
Speaker 1: dead bear. I like how he described how people on
Speaker 1: the American frontier die like that all the time, and
Speaker 1: he said their memories are just yeah. Yeah, gersh Soaker
Speaker 1: was a he was a master storyteller. I mean he
Speaker 1: really was. And and and how it translated from the
Speaker 1: Germans so so powerfully into English is I mean maybe
Speaker 1: that's common, but usually I feel like you would be
Speaker 1: able to kind of tell that, you know, it wasn't
Speaker 1: quite right. But but whoever did that, I think did
Speaker 1: a good job. Because it's it is written, it is
Speaker 1: hard to read, like if you when I remember when
Speaker 1: I made that section, it was like a ended up
Speaker 1: being like eleven minutes years ago. When I made it,
Speaker 1: it took me like an hour and a half to
Speaker 1: read it because I would mess up like you would
Speaker 1: because the Senate structure was often kind of but it
Speaker 1: still sounds good to the ear.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So that and then oh he's got more, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: got more. The whole story was wild, but like how
Speaker 1: tough he was like to not you know, he said
Speaker 1: he didn't make a didn't make a noise whenever they
Speaker 1: snapped his shoulder back into place, and then writing back
Speaker 1: he just said he was in like immense pain. But like,
Speaker 1: over no, we just talked about how he wasn't gonna
Speaker 1: even acknowledge it. Yeah, but yeah, overall that story was
Speaker 1: just they didn't have microplastics back then or mock estrogens
Speaker 1: in the water, That's right, I mean for real, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean everybody talks about how somebody sent me a
Speaker 1: picture of the other day about saying that, you know, like
Speaker 1: men used to be tough. It is like a guy
Speaker 1: carrying a deer or something, some old black and white picture. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's kind of it was. You know, people say
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff all the time, and but it's
Speaker 1: actually quite true.
Speaker 4: I like how Clay looks at me for corroboration whenever
Speaker 4: he does these things. Is true, well yeah, that there
Speaker 4: are those things now, Yeah, it is true. But it's
Speaker 4: always it always puts me on the spot because Clay
Speaker 4: is he's a good storyteller. I don't know how far
Speaker 4: Clay would have actually gone in the research world, because
Speaker 4: there's a lot of caveats to almost everything. You know,
Speaker 4: you you like, exception, exceptions to the rule, and it
Speaker 4: it drives me bonkers sometimes when we when we walk
Speaker 4: out here, I'm just like, I don't know if you
Speaker 4: could actually say it quite like that, and we'll I'll
Speaker 4: tell him what what he got wrong. And he's like, yeah,
Speaker 4: but that's not the point, and he's not lying, he's
Speaker 4: just not like well, but then there's this one instance.
Speaker 2: He's a storyteller.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a I'm a researcher.
Speaker 2: You are a researcher. But you're not an academic. You're
Speaker 2: not an you're not a lecturer. You're a storyteller.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, on the on the render. The render is
Speaker 1: just informal conversation.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, No, I think it's great.
Speaker 4: I think it's great. I think it's good. He takes it.
Speaker 4: He makes things interesting and.
Speaker 1: Uh, talking about we're talking about basically testosterone, right, And
Speaker 1: they were tough, that's true.
Speaker 2: Yes, they were tough.
Speaker 1: They were tough.
Speaker 2: And and you look at those guys compared to today,
Speaker 2: to the were smaller men, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: just thinks just on average, you know, the height of
Speaker 2: an average man was probably five seven, five eight, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 2: So you got these you got these guys, and it's
Speaker 2: just had a tremendous, tremendous athleticism, physical prowess that were today,
Speaker 2: according today today's standards would be little guys. You know
Speaker 2: that that had all these things that they did.
Speaker 1: You know, I so have we done everybody's misty? Which
Speaker 1: one stood up to you? Well? Is it? Mister Britt,
Speaker 1: mister Britt Davis?
Speaker 4: That story when he tears up in that story and
Speaker 4: you ask him about what that was like, and he's
Speaker 4: probably what eighty five.
Speaker 1: Years old, Well he was ninety now.
Speaker 4: He's ninety two, Okay, When he tells that story and
Speaker 4: he thinks back to when he was thirteen and his
Speaker 4: dad died and he had to go to work and
Speaker 4: buy the farm, and he's still and he got teary eyed.
Speaker 4: I thought that was just a human moment. And he
Speaker 4: he is. He's treated very well by his descendants. I
Speaker 4: mean they really respect him. And he has earned it.
Speaker 4: I mean he's clearly clearly earned it. But that that
Speaker 4: is truly an incredible story. And you think about the
Speaker 4: value of that land. Now, you know that's out there
Speaker 4: where it's almost impossible to buy land out there now
Speaker 4: if you grew up there, it's so expensive. And him
Speaker 4: being a thirteen year old and bought it with a.
Speaker 1: Grew a crop of tobacco. I'm thinking about growing a
Speaker 1: crop of tobacco.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I knew. I actually thought, I hope neither
Speaker 4: of our boys listen to this today because they might
Speaker 4: be coming in with a proposal.
Speaker 1: For So I tried to find a way to tell
Speaker 1: this story in the vo about mister Brett, but I
Speaker 1: just couldn't do it. I just couldn't figure out how
Speaker 1: to do It was just too a little too clunky
Speaker 1: of a story. But the first time I stayed with
Speaker 1: Roy Clark is his son in law, so mister Brett,
Speaker 1: mister Brett stays with Roy a lot at their house.
Speaker 1: He kind of has a room there. And the first
Speaker 1: time I stayed and hunted with Roy Clark in East Tennessee,
Speaker 1: went to his house late in the evening and Roy
Speaker 1: was like, well, you can stay down here. They had
Speaker 1: to bed kind of in the basement, and I went
Speaker 1: down there and he said, my father in law's down there,
Speaker 1: kind of off in a little side room, and he said,
Speaker 1: so just so you know, there's like somebody else down here,
Speaker 1: you know. And so anyway, I didn't think much about
Speaker 1: it and just went to leap in the next day
Speaker 1: I met mister Britt and uh, and he you know,
Speaker 1: he he would he would sit over there and not speak. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like you know, you kind of got to talk to
Speaker 1: him to get him to talk. But he's very attentive,
Speaker 1: very together. He knows what's going on. Anyway, I introduced
Speaker 1: myself to him. I said, mister Britt, my name is
Speaker 1: Clay and uh and he said uh. He said, I
Speaker 1: was afraid you're gonna rob me last night and I
Speaker 1: was like, no, no, I wasn't. I wasn't. I can't
Speaker 1: remember the way, just the way he said it. But basically,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like I'm coming into his house. He
Speaker 1: doesn't know who I am. It's the middle of the night.
Speaker 1: He knew I was coming, but he was just like
Speaker 1: all night he was just like it was anyway, mister Britt.
Speaker 1: A little clunky, little stories, a little clunky.
Speaker 4: Did you tell your favorite one? I did, just making sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I don't know that I had a favorite one.
Speaker 1: The those when when we came up with those, we
Speaker 1: had this idea to do like a time machine podcast,
Speaker 1: and I just instinctively.
Speaker 2: Rattled off like five or six and.
Speaker 1: So that's what I so they We didn't we didn't
Speaker 1: think about it. It was just like what stood out
Speaker 1: to me, and I'll never forget when mister Britt told
Speaker 1: me about buying that land. I'll never forget when Warner
Speaker 1: Glenn told me about, you know, beating up that officer.
Speaker 1: I'll never forget when I'd known Louis Dell and Charlie
Speaker 1: in where I was from my whole life and knew
Speaker 1: their story and or knew a part of their story.
Speaker 1: And then when I finally kind of gave it the
Speaker 1: story enough attention to go to Stony and say, hey,
Speaker 1: tell me about your dad and your uncle. The first
Speaker 1: thing he did was pull out those newspaper clippings from
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty six when their uncle was killed, you know, murdered.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and his other uncle shot in the ear.
Speaker 1: Yeah. They who they grew up with their whole life,
Speaker 1: like Uncle Andy they called him, I mean, just died
Speaker 1: like I mean in recent times, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: and who had half an ear his whole life. And
Speaker 1: then going, oh, I get it, you know, I kind
Speaker 1: of see the at least the start of kind of
Speaker 1: how this family got going the way they were. You know,
Speaker 1: I just never forget that, you know, And it's kind
Speaker 1: of like people are the way they are a lot
Speaker 1: of times for reasons that can go way back, and
Speaker 1: that again that doesn't justify it, but I think as
Speaker 1: if you understand that you have the right to overcome stuff,
Speaker 1: you know, because sometimes stuff like that's blind, like you
Speaker 1: don't know why you're.
Speaker 4: This way, you don't even realize you this way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then but so it's like just awareness of
Speaker 1: your own life, your own past, the way you were
Speaker 1: raised is powerful. I think. So I'll never forget that
Speaker 1: the Gershocker thing, favorite story of all time. And I
Speaker 1: think I learned something when I made that Girshtocker podcast
Speaker 1: that was that was actually the third It was played
Speaker 1: as the fourth, but it was the third episode of
Speaker 1: bear Grease that we ever made. And I remember it
Speaker 1: being an eleven minute section of me just reading a
Speaker 1: book and I just thought, there's no way that this
Speaker 1: is going to be good. And I read it and
Speaker 1: we we put music to it and we put it
Speaker 1: in context, and it just like it just like hit
Speaker 1: and uh and and it's kind of like we learned
Speaker 1: something you know that you could you could. I mean,
Speaker 1: a good story is a good story, no matter when
Speaker 1: it's told. And uh and and that was the story
Speaker 1: that Rogan talked about on his podcast and he liked,
Speaker 1: you know, and I mean it just it just kind
Speaker 1: of gained a lot of traction. But I felt like
Speaker 1: I learned something there and that hat tip to Ger
Speaker 1: Shtocker for well being yeah, but teaching me what Bargeras was.
Speaker 1: And then Donnie Baker. I had to include Donnie Baker.
Speaker 1: Of all the episodes, of all the interviews I've ever done,
Speaker 1: I was probably most surprised by his because partly mainly
Speaker 1: because I didn't know him, had no information on him.
Speaker 1: No nobody referred me to Donnie Baker. Donnie Baker had
Speaker 1: reached out to me just probably like you did years ago.
Speaker 1: I mean, just just talking about something, you know. And
Speaker 1: I messaged him back and then he just threw out
Speaker 1: like a very short sentence about how he got in
Speaker 1: trouble with the law a few years ago and had
Speaker 1: killed this two or nine inch buck like he wasn't
Speaker 1: he was. He just said it to me and it
Speaker 1: made sense in our context, and I just immediately just said,
Speaker 1: would you be willing to tell me about that? And
Speaker 1: he was like sure, And I called him on the
Speaker 1: phone for a pretty short conversation and basically was like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm going to be in Missouri next week. How about
Speaker 1: I just come by? And I told him, and he
Speaker 1: would tell you this today. I told him, I said, Donnie,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can use this episode, So
Speaker 1: please don't don't have your right heart set on, heart
Speaker 1: set on you know what we're going to do with this.
Speaker 1: And I also was just like, hey, you don't have
Speaker 1: to do this, like I don't want you to feel compelled,
Speaker 1: because he was a big he liked bear grease, and
Speaker 1: I felt like he was just kind of doing me
Speaker 1: a favor, which was kind of odd to me that
Speaker 1: he would be like, well, sure, i'll tell you about
Speaker 1: this like terrible thing that happened, you know. And so
Speaker 1: I was like trying to feel him out, like are
Speaker 1: you doing this just because if you're doing this for me,
Speaker 1: we're not going to do it, like I don't want
Speaker 1: to like drag up your dirty laundry just so I
Speaker 1: can have something so we can just peer in and
Speaker 1: look at somebody who did something wrong. But so I
Speaker 1: kept trying to figure out like why he would talk
Speaker 1: to me, and and so I basically just said, let's
Speaker 1: just try it and we'll just see. We'll just have
Speaker 1: a conversation. And I mean usually when I interview someone,
Speaker 1: you really you kind of you talk to him and
Speaker 1: you ask him questions and you kind of come in
Speaker 1: from this way and that way. And I remember we
Speaker 1: just put the headset on and I just said, I've
Speaker 1: got the recording. I've listened to it before. I gave
Speaker 1: like a five minute preamble of me just being like, well,
Speaker 1: where are we going to start, Donnie dud dud da
Speaker 1: da da duh. And finally he started talking, and he
Speaker 1: basically didn't stop talking for two hours.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And he told me the whole story of the buck
Speaker 1: and just just just like unusual vulnerability and transparency in
Speaker 1: the way that he communicated about that. I think there's
Speaker 1: very few people that could have done what he communicated
Speaker 1: the way that he did. Because I actually thought, and
Speaker 1: Donnie will probably be listening to this. Donnie knows, Donnie
Speaker 1: knows I appreciate him.
Speaker 3: I thought, and I've said this to him before. I
Speaker 3: didn't know this guy.
Speaker 1: I thought, maybe when I get there, he's gonna to
Speaker 1: try to justify what he did. And think, well, he'll
Speaker 1: have this national platform to kind of clear his name,
Speaker 1: you know, which you could do in like nuanced ways,
Speaker 1: you know, like you could you could tell the story
Speaker 1: but kind of put some qualifiers here in there, or
Speaker 1: just the tone, like you can talk to somebody. And
Speaker 1: he was a really good at discerning intent, whether they
Speaker 1: want to or not. But you can tell someone's intent
Speaker 1: just by just just the vibe that they put out.
Speaker 1: And I was just really surprised at Donnie's transparency and
Speaker 1: his just the way he told the story and then
Speaker 1: the sequence that he told it, because he tells about
Speaker 1: this deer and then I'm like, basically was like, well,
Speaker 1: was this a big deal? And he was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: as a big deal, but let me tell you about
Speaker 1: what was really a big deal. And he starts telling
Speaker 1: me about his wife ye, And I mean, I'm just like,
Speaker 1: where is this story going? And the story ends with
Speaker 1: his wife passing away. And I couldn't have weaved that
Speaker 1: story together. It just came together just as he told it.
Speaker 1: And it was just this powerful moment of just seeing
Speaker 1: the bigger picture of someone's life in a way kind
Speaker 1: of like Louis Dell and Charlie, Like if you could
Speaker 1: get away from them and their outlawn and their brash
Speaker 1: nature at times and kind of see a little bit
Speaker 1: bigger picture, and like the people that actually knew them
Speaker 1: had in the community, they had a lot more empathy
Speaker 1: for somebody like that. But like a Donnie Baker killed
Speaker 1: two or nine inch year on public land, tried to
Speaker 1: hide it. Oh man, they they him. I mean, just mercifully, mercifully, merciless, mercilessly,
Speaker 1: you know, And I would feel justified in doing the
Speaker 1: same thing. I mean, just this week that C. J.
Speaker 1: Alexander guy, Uh did you see that? Yeah? Yeah, he
Speaker 1: was convicted. Yeah yeah, this guy to Ohio killed a
Speaker 1: world class typical Have you seen that, Josh, you've seen it? Bear, Yeah,
Speaker 1: this guy. I mean, it's not like I'm revealing something
Speaker 1: people haven't already known that this guy c. J. Alexander,
Speaker 1: pretty young guy, I don't know, probably thirty. So he
Speaker 1: killed this big buck, put it all over the internet,
Speaker 1: talked about it, went on podcasts, had it scored maybe
Speaker 1: it was it going to be a state record. I
Speaker 1: don't remember those, but it was huge. It was one
Speaker 1: of the biggest deer killed in America last year. As
Speaker 1: I'm Ohio, I think, Ohio. Yeah, Well, then we find
Speaker 1: out that he, I mean, he's been convicted of like
Speaker 1: completely killing it illegally on land he didn't have permission
Speaker 1: on and taking it to land he did, and there
Speaker 1: was this big cover up. And uh, I mean I
Speaker 1: would have no problem talking negatively about that guy. And
Speaker 1: I don't know his story. I don't know. I just
Speaker 1: and I don't think I could do a story on
Speaker 1: that guy. Yeah, Donnie Baker was just like a really
Speaker 1: rare casep that just happened all on its own. You know.
Speaker 1: I said in that episode that I kind of felt
Speaker 1: the need, like, you know, coming into the fourth year
Speaker 1: of our podcast, where people kind of begin to expect
Speaker 1: certain things from you, and it's like, I guarantee you
Speaker 1: the stories are just gonna keep getting better in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five, and man, yeah, we've got a lineup and
Speaker 1: we've got plans and we're gonna do this and we're
Speaker 1: gonna do that. And I'm like, no, I can't guarantee anything, right,
Speaker 1: And I never I never had a guarantee on anything.
Speaker 1: I mean, these stories and and and what anything that
Speaker 1: has that that has been good that has happened through
Speaker 1: this podcast has happened on its own. I mean it's
Speaker 1: it's it's not been fueled by by me or by
Speaker 1: Josh or by anybody. It's it's uh, it's I don't know,
Speaker 1: just uh. I mean I think I think God's helping us,
Speaker 1: no doubt, but it's uh so I can't I can't
Speaker 1: guarantee anything.
Speaker 2: So tune in for some real crap and.
Speaker 4: I ain't gonna be good. We'll get good stories that come.
Speaker 1: Along, no, But that's what gives me confidence in the
Speaker 1: future autely is that, man, they're a great story worries
Speaker 1: out there.
Speaker 2: There are some great stories.
Speaker 1: There's no When we first started this podcast, Caleb Day,
Speaker 1: I had to make twenty six right right out, twenty
Speaker 1: six mock episodes, which would be a full year of
Speaker 1: Burgers because we do a Burgrease documentary style podcast every
Speaker 1: two weeks. And I remember like writing all these things
Speaker 1: out and being like, man, that's that's about all I got,
Speaker 1: you know, you just couldn't really think of anything. And
Speaker 1: then very quickly we saw that content was not there's
Speaker 1: no shortage of great stories.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: You start getting a lot of listener leads of hey,
Speaker 3: you should check this out or is it just all
Speaker 3: naturally stuff?
Speaker 1: That I mean a lot of everything, you know. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's been some good listener leads that we've followed, and
Speaker 1: probably hundreds that we haven't that would would be legitly
Speaker 1: good episodes. People almost every day give me and I,
Speaker 1: you know, say hey, you should do this, and I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: he's right, I bet that would be good. But but
Speaker 1: more so it's just the kind of the the natural
Speaker 1: trajectory of just stuff I'm exposed to, you know, that
Speaker 1: kind of see. I mean I would say most of them,
Speaker 1: but there's no one place that they come from, right,
Speaker 1: But no.
Speaker 4: So it was a good year. Good way to start
Speaker 4: with Donnie Baker, good way to end with Donnie Baker.
Speaker 1: Yep, yeah, yeah, M.
Speaker 2: I really like Donnie's just genuineness, just a genuine guy.
Speaker 2: He's just a just a guy. I appreciated how he
Speaker 2: you know, when you ask him the question like were
Speaker 2: you like hesiting, He's like, nope, I decided to kill it,
Speaker 2: like he was honest, like just I made like you could.
Speaker 2: He had that moment and he's like he made that
Speaker 2: moment where he made the decision that he was he
Speaker 2: never made that decision before, like it was an never
Speaker 2: even on the table, but when it came, he was
Speaker 2: like I made that decision, and that's when he recognizes
Speaker 2: was the downfall from that moment on. You know, if
Speaker 2: you talk to him today, I'll tell you the same thing,
Speaker 2: you know, m.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: Anyway, it was a great year. Great podcast, man, it's good.
Speaker 1: It's a good year. Caleb. You have a podcast.
Speaker 3: I have a little hobby cast. Yeah, it's just over
Speaker 3: bow building. And so I told myself, like, and me
Speaker 3: and my friend decided to start it. He builds bows
Speaker 3: as well, and we call it the Primitive Archery Podcast.
Speaker 3: But I figured it was a tool I could use
Speaker 3: to talk to some of these you know, kind of
Speaker 3: clothes shelled bowyers, these old timers that are phenomenal bowyers
Speaker 3: that maybe don't want to give their their secrets. When
Speaker 3: not that I'm expelling all their secrets for everywhere here,
Speaker 3: but maybe it's an olive branch that I could start
Speaker 3: a conversation with some of these guys so they don't
Speaker 3: that information is not lost. So selfishly, like, I want
Speaker 3: to have conversations with these guys. And then you know,
Speaker 3: why would I hold that, you know to myself? Why
Speaker 3: not share it as long as they're okay with that obviously,
Speaker 3: And so you know, I haven't touched it during hunting
Speaker 3: season like that's priority. But yeah, it is fun and
Speaker 3: it is a it's a great community, just like the
Speaker 3: traditional archery community. Like I'm sure like the bear grease community.
Speaker 3: It's a lot of like minded people that just I
Speaker 3: don't know if you've been to any like traditional shoots
Speaker 3: or anything like that, but it just seems like there's
Speaker 3: a lot. It just seems like there's always good people
Speaker 3: on that kind of stuff. So yeah, yeah, I enjoy it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, man, the traditional archery world is a great world.
Speaker 1: Well they got one treat again out there. Shoot, man, Caleb,
Speaker 1: I was gonna I was gonna ask you. I mean
Speaker 1: we're already it's closing time, but uh, I was gonna
Speaker 1: ask you your best firefighting story?
Speaker 2: Do you actually fight?
Speaker 1: Do you put out many fires?
Speaker 3: That's probably five percent of our job. Yet ninety percent,
Speaker 3: i'd say is medical calls where we respond with an
Speaker 3: ambulance and help them. And then maybe five percent is REX.
Speaker 3: And so like when you say good story, percent is REX,
Speaker 3: this is guestimations. I don't know, Like I could get
Speaker 3: in the computer do REX every day now and you
Speaker 3: know we've got I thirty five cuts through my area
Speaker 3: and then Highway nine as well. Highway nine is one
Speaker 3: of the most dangerous sections of highway in the country,
Speaker 3: and we run a lot of res a lot of
Speaker 3: I don't know the real reason, honestly, you know, like
Speaker 3: a lot of it. They four laned a lot of it,
Speaker 3: but it used to be two lane undivided, and so
Speaker 3: you'd have a lot of head on collisions and there's
Speaker 3: some curves and there's a lake out there. So I
Speaker 3: don't know if a lot of you know, partying at
Speaker 3: the lake and people driving home. I mean, there's speculations.
Speaker 3: But when you think I think of good stories like
Speaker 3: that we might tell at the coffee table in the morning,
Speaker 3: you know, a lot of them are probably not stuff
Speaker 3: you want to share.
Speaker 1: Maybe, like I can think of one I was.
Speaker 3: I was a brand new Rooky and a lot of
Speaker 3: times Ricky's they're messing with you all day and you're
Speaker 3: just you're trying to earn your spot at the coffee
Speaker 3: table and just you know, earn your spot on the team,
Speaker 3: and so you're taking out of trash and they're dumping
Speaker 3: flour and water on you all the time and stuff,
Speaker 3: and so you're always trying to earn your spot and
Speaker 3: do stuff to earn that spot. And so one day
Speaker 3: our chief walked in was like, hey, the you are
Speaker 3: called and they can't get a ring off a lady's finger.
Speaker 3: One of y'all needs to take the drimal on my
Speaker 3: office and go down there and help them.
Speaker 1: And so.
Speaker 3: My captain was like, okay, we'll go, and then he
Speaker 3: was like, does anyone use the dremmal? And none of
Speaker 3: those guys had used the drimal. Well, I use them
Speaker 3: on my bow stuff, like that's what I carved the
Speaker 3: bear Paul with. And so I was like, oh, I've
Speaker 3: used one, not realizing what we were about to do.
Speaker 3: And then we get in the er and there's doctors
Speaker 3: and nurses all around and there's just a dremal with
Speaker 3: no guard or anything, and this lady's finger is super
Speaker 3: swollen and starting to separate because what happens is your
Speaker 3: blood gets past it ring, but it can't return because
Speaker 3: your arteries are pumping that blood harder than your veins
Speaker 3: can return it. And so like she could have lost
Speaker 3: her fingers.
Speaker 1: So I just have someone.
Speaker 3: Pouring water, Yeah, the bow, you're and I got my drimal,
Speaker 3: just like hoping it doesn't grab and like shoot into
Speaker 3: this lady's finger or something, you know, and like, anyways,
Speaker 3: we got it off and saved your finger.
Speaker 1: How did you do it when you got right down
Speaker 1: to the last little part.
Speaker 3: So they took like these four steps and stuck them
Speaker 3: under to give me some space, a little bit of space,
Speaker 3: and they were pouring water out of like a flush
Speaker 3: that they would use an IV to keep it cool,
Speaker 3: to keep it from heating up.
Speaker 1: But you know, like I.
Speaker 3: Don't have I don't doctor's protection and liability and stuff
Speaker 3: like that. And I'm sure the doctor's got the bill too,
Speaker 3: like I didn't see my cut. Yeah, we joke about that,
Speaker 3: but I just thought it was funny, like you would
Speaker 3: expect a doctor to be able to save your finger.
Speaker 3: And they're like, we don't know quali fire because they
Speaker 3: have ring cutters that are kind of like can openers,
Speaker 3: and they weren't working. Whatever her ring was made out
Speaker 3: was too tough.
Speaker 2: Wow wow, good.
Speaker 1: Job, good job. So that's a PG one. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: oh gosh, yeah, I bet so well. Happy New Year
Speaker 1: to everybody, very happy new year, and and uh it's
Speaker 1: gonna be it's gonna be a good year. Keep the
Speaker 1: wild places, wild because that's where the Brady to be.
Speaker 2: M m hmmmmmm
Speaker 1: Mm hmm