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Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast, and

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Speaker 1: we explore some of the big money issues in the

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Speaker 1: world of sports. On Michael Barne. I'm Scarlett Foo and

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Speaker 1: I'm Damiens. And you want big money, let's talk pickleball. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I know I would never have said that a year ago,

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Speaker 1: but you know what, it is one of the big

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Speaker 1: crazes that's going on right now. You've got a lot

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Speaker 1: of leagues that are popping up and a lot of

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Speaker 1: big name investors that are putting their cash into it.

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Speaker 1: And with us. Old friend came back to the show.

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Speaker 1: He went all Hollywood now on us. Everybody, the ladies

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Speaker 1: and gentlemen, it's Bloomberg's Jason Kelly. Let's hear it for him.

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Speaker 1: Everybody nice to be here. Yeah, talk about Hollywood. I

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Speaker 1: mean pickleballs going Hollywood, guys. I mean anybody who's anybody

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Speaker 1: has a pickleball teams? Car Do you have a pickaball team?

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Speaker 1: I don't, And I just looked up what it looks like.

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Speaker 1: It looks like it's table tennis but on a tennis court. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean what's interesting about this is both the participant side.

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Speaker 1: It's all the rage you've got country clubs, you've got

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Speaker 1: retirement communities, you've got city parks all converting tennis courts

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Speaker 1: to pickleball courts. And at the same time, you've got

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Speaker 1: this professional league cropping up where you have a lot

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Speaker 1: of famous people talking about Tom Brady, We're talking about

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Speaker 1: Larry Fitzgerald, We're talking about Heidi klum Eva, Longoria, Chris

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Speaker 1: Evert buying teams a couple million bucks and they're going

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Speaker 1: to have a really robust, ongoing championship at the professional level.

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Speaker 1: This is happening, Damien's assar. I have to think you've

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Speaker 1: got some You've got some pickleball playing friends, your country

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Speaker 1: club I've got I definitely do. And now you're hitting

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Speaker 1: right where it hurts from me, because you know, we've

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Speaker 1: been talking about this, by the way, Jason, for some

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Speaker 1: time now. I'm talking Scarlett, Michael and myself, and we've

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Speaker 1: been like, where are these pickle ball players coming from?

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Speaker 1: Where you're gonna find the talent? And I've been, you know,

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Speaker 1: on the record of saying you're gonna go to country clubs,

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Speaker 1: You're gonna go to Westchester County. You got Pamfield County,

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Speaker 1: that's where. But now that we see the actual lineup.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking to Brooklyn Aces, I'm talking to Texas Ranchers.

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Speaker 1: I'm still looking at these names. We're trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out where we found them from. Jason, I mean, where

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Speaker 1: are you finding pickupball players from in today's day and age.

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Speaker 1: So here's one really interesting thing that like goes right

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Speaker 1: to the heart of like the Bloomberg business of sports.

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Speaker 1: I spoke with the interim CEO of the Major League

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Speaker 1: Pickleball League, and that's gonna be sort of where everything's

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Speaker 1: gonna call us on the press professional level. Twenty five

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Speaker 1: years at Goldman sachs Uh former partner NBA, from goys

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Speaker 1: wet to business school. He's invested in professional teams, including

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Speaker 1: the Las Vegas Golden Knights in the NHL, and he's

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Speaker 1: running pickleball on an interim basis. Is Guy Brian Levine.

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Speaker 1: He's super into it and he came to it because

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Speaker 1: he loves pickleball. By the way, Larry Fitzgerald, who I

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Speaker 1: also talked to, started playing pickleball during the pandemic, built

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Speaker 1: a court in his backyard in Phoenix, Arizona, and played

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Speaker 1: every day with his three sons. So that's where they're

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Speaker 1: coming from take me through. Now. What people don't know

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Speaker 1: is that Scarlet, Damien and me we had a secret

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Speaker 1: meeting and we're going to invest in the Anthill Mob

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Speaker 1: in the Wacky Races League for a pickle ball team.

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Speaker 1: And we all said, okay, it's like, you know, we

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Speaker 1: got our twenty dollar bills, how do we get started

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Speaker 1: in investing in a pickleball team? If you're you're like me, well,

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Speaker 1: I mean what's interesting is there have been a number

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Speaker 1: of leagues that have essentially now come together. Major League

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Speaker 1: Pickleball seems to be what's going to be kind of

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Speaker 1: the defining professional league at least when it comes to

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Speaker 1: putting on the big tournaments that you know, at some

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Speaker 1: point down the line, we'll have a big TV contract.

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Speaker 1: I mean big and I'm using scare quotes there. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, we'll see how it how it emerges. Um,

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Speaker 1: but you know, they have created this league. You they're

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Speaker 1: putting franchises up for zero. They have put franchises up

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Speaker 1: for sale, their regionally base. One of the most interesting

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Speaker 1: things I think about this is they are going to

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Speaker 1: have promotion and relegation, so you're actually going to have

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Speaker 1: like European soccer style teams competing and over the course

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Speaker 1: of Tom Brady's team is going to try and get

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Speaker 1: to the championship level um from the challenger level. I mean,

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Speaker 1: so they're trying to build some drama into this. And

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Speaker 1: to me, one of the really interesting things is this

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Speaker 1: kind of participant and slash professional element to this that

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Speaker 1: you know we see another sports like tennis and golf, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: But you know, they are definitely trying to leverage the

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Speaker 1: sort of broader popularity of this game's car and the

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Speaker 1: broader popularity means that all these big name athletes are

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Speaker 1: investing in the sport, but are they playing the sport

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Speaker 1: as well? I mean, you talk to all these athletes,

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Speaker 1: do they play pickleball? And why is it called pickleball?

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Speaker 1: You know, there's a whole lot of lore around pickleball

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Speaker 1: and where the name comes from. There are a lot

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Speaker 1: of competing interests. One says one myth says the it's

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Speaker 1: named after a dog named pickle um. I've read some

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Speaker 1: other stuff, so who knows, somewhere the truth will will

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Speaker 1: come out. I do think to your point about the athletes,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of them play um. I mean,

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Speaker 1: and the other really interesting thing. And this goes to

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Speaker 1: the sort of country club of it all is. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's huge in retirement communities because it's easier to um,

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Speaker 1: it's easier on the body than tennis. It's impact, it's

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Speaker 1: lower impact, it's a smaller court, it's a whiffleball um

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Speaker 1: it has, but it has a lot of the same

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Speaker 1: sort of hand eye coordination. Our colleague here at Bloomberg,

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Speaker 1: Adrian to Scano, who runs booking for all of our

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Speaker 1: live events, massive pickleball player. She has been like in

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Speaker 1: my ear about pickle ball. I sent her the story

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Speaker 1: that that we put out in the past week or

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Speaker 1: so and she just wrote back, This makes me so

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Speaker 1: happy because she feels validated that this is all this

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Speaker 1: is all happening. Damian, you're seeing it. Come on, I

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Speaker 1: want you to come are you? Are you a closet

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Speaker 1: pickleball player being pick a ball and paddle and and

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Speaker 1: admittedly I had a paddle injury. I did get injured.

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Speaker 1: You know, my my calf. I what you got injured? Yah? Know?

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Speaker 1: You play in the cold weather, you Scarlett. This is

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Speaker 1: the way it works. You're play in the cold weather.

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Speaker 1: You wear the goggles and the neat pads and the

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Speaker 1: whole thing. And you know, if you're cutting or you're

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Speaker 1: moving around somewhat quickly, which I like to do in

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Speaker 1: the cold weather. At fifty years old, nearly something gives.

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Speaker 1: And so that kind of happened to me last year.

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Speaker 1: So I'm taking a little bit of a hiatus from

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Speaker 1: the sport. But I mean, I love it. It's awesome.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing. I mean, I'm just looking here. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Jason sam Query was the first draft pick up the

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Speaker 1: pick A Ball League, right, and so here here's just

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Speaker 1: to give everyone one ten a TV Tour titles, you know,

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Speaker 1: reach the semifinals of Wimbledon. So these are real tennis players.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like there's real talent there, you know. I'm

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Speaker 1: just I find it so interesting. You're gonna have people

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Speaker 1: like Jason Verlander, you know, Chris Everett, you know Heidi Clumb,

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Speaker 1: you know everyone. Derek Spentley, by the way, Deer Spentley

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Speaker 1: went to Banderbilt University with me. Dear Spentley country music

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Speaker 1: pop legend is going to be scouting tennis players and

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Speaker 1: bringing them into this league. Gonna be the analytics on

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Speaker 1: pickleball players, like the moneyballs coming, moneyballs coming. I mean

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Speaker 1: that this is this is how this happens in a

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Speaker 1: lot of ways. But you know, we have seen celebrity ownership,

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Speaker 1: you know, start to creep in to you know, other

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Speaker 1: big professional sports. You know, I mean, Scott and I've

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Speaker 1: been talking about this. Uh you know You've got Ryan

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Speaker 1: Reynolds making a play for the Ottawa Senators. That's a

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Speaker 1: that's one to to watch. So the first major celebrity

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Speaker 1: owner of an HL team if it goes if it

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Speaker 1: goes through exactly. So you know you've seen and I

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Speaker 1: think the other really interesting aspect of this, which we've

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Speaker 1: talked about lots on this show before, and I know

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Speaker 1: you guys continue to talk about, is athletes being business owners.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Larry Fitzgerald is really interesting. It was so

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Speaker 1: fascinating talk to talk to him because obviously one of

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Speaker 1: the greatest football players of all time, second only to

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Speaker 1: Jerry Rice in reception seventeen years in the league. But

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Speaker 1: also fun fact, is on the board of Dick Sporting Goods.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, he's a very serious businessman and so

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Speaker 1: you think about the lens through which he sees this.

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Speaker 1: Again both from the participant in the professional perspective. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's what brings me to the next question, is that

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Speaker 1: this is really going to explode when you get the

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Speaker 1: real big name sponsors in these in these games here.

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Speaker 1: And it wouldn't surprise me to see a Dick Sporting

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Speaker 1: Goods in this, but you know, and and a guy

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Speaker 1: like me who plays gnipkop. You know that's the see

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Speaker 1: you've got to look that up. I mean, maybe I'll

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Speaker 1: get into this is like, you know, when you see

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Speaker 1: the sponsors come in, well, and I think you are

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Speaker 1: going to see some I think that's a great point

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Speaker 1: bar because I think you're gonna see the typical sort

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Speaker 1: of endemic sports sponsors come in. You know, the light

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Speaker 1: Beers of the World, the Gatorades, the Gatorades, you know,

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Speaker 1: all those sorts of things. But you know, this is

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Speaker 1: tends to be a relatively on the scale of things

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Speaker 1: affluent game. Um, you know, given who's playing. And so

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Speaker 1: you think about luxury car as you think about technology companies,

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Speaker 1: You think about all these different things, and you think

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Speaker 1: about and building on bars point, you think about the relationships,

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Speaker 1: the existing relationships that these athlete owners or these business owners.

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Speaker 1: Because Mark Lazzarie, who wants some Milwaukee Bucks. He owns

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Speaker 1: a team. Um you have so you have these people

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Speaker 1: with existing relationships with big corporate sponsors who are going

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Speaker 1: to be saying, yeah, you know, why don't you get

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Speaker 1: behind my pickleball team. I still wonder, though, if pickleball

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Speaker 1: is going to be something that years later we'll look

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Speaker 1: back and be like, oh, yeah, that was really big

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Speaker 1: for a while, you know, like that was the sports

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Speaker 1: of could be absolutely could be. I mean I think

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Speaker 1: the what what will what will be interesting to see

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Speaker 1: is you know, five years from now, does the infrastructure exist,

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Speaker 1: you know, because it does take a physical change in things.

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Speaker 1: You know, people are having to make decisions at you know,

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Speaker 1: clubs and city parks and things like that. You can't

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Speaker 1: trust use a tennis court for pickleball. I mean you can,

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Speaker 1: but it requires different It requires different lines and a

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Speaker 1: different net. And so. But one of the very appealing

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Speaker 1: passes that you you actually, I know, the pickle All

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Speaker 1: the pickleball people are listening are like, how dare he

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Speaker 1: say that? Um, but you can you know it basically

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Speaker 1: takes up half the space. Uh, and so, but I

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Speaker 1: I do wonder, Damien, what the what the sort of

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Speaker 1: like paddle pickle Um showdown maybe as it as it

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Speaker 1: comes out like, because they are kind of similar, right,

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Speaker 1: and they are, and well they're but they're very different, right.

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Speaker 1: I Mean, one's more like a racketball you get to

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Speaker 1: play off the walls. The other's more of a two

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Speaker 1: on two. But my question for you, Jason is, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's take a step back. I mean, you talk about

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Speaker 1: the involvement of celebrities and you know, entrepreneurs and whatnot,

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Speaker 1: and look, they are incredibly smart, incredibly savvy these days.

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Speaker 1: My question is, what isn't I guess the average value

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Speaker 1: right now today for a major league pickleball team? Is it?

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Speaker 1: You know, is it you know, seven figures? I mean

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Speaker 1: it's a couple of million bucks. Million bucks, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: so that's that's low, right, I mean you could you

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Speaker 1: could see maybe a ten x or more if this

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Speaker 1: actually takes off. Is you know, pretty savvy totally, and

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Speaker 1: you know, and we're at this moment I think, I mean, listen,

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Speaker 1: we're talking at a time where an NBA franchise is

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Speaker 1: going for a reported four billion dollars, and so if

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Speaker 1: you want to be a sports owner, if you want

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Speaker 1: to sort of have that vibe about you. You know,

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Speaker 1: there are some more affordable on a relative basis options

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Speaker 1: out there, So I think that is that is definitely

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Speaker 1: part of the appeal. And you know, if it does

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Speaker 1: take off, there's a lot of upside and probably for

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Speaker 1: for a lot of these folks. You know, this is

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Speaker 1: not you know, this is probably money they found in

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Speaker 1: the couch. Okay. So one thing that we never talked

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Speaker 1: about out loud, but happens every single time we do

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Speaker 1: one of these interviews is one of us is googling back,

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Speaker 1: you know, furiously at the computer to look for some

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Speaker 1: background information. There's a New York Times article why is

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Speaker 1: pickle ball so popular? And one of the comments just

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Speaker 1: made me laugh out loud. It's the loudest game of

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Speaker 1: patty Cake. You'll never want to hear. Yeah, shots fired, Mama,

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Speaker 1: where's the back team pick up all airs catching strays?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what that's about. Well, listen,

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Speaker 1: and I think this is ya is probably going to

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Speaker 1: take off big time, which is already doing now. And

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Speaker 1: you know, and and Scarlett, you hit the nail on

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Speaker 1: the head. Let's let's see if it gets past the

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Speaker 1: so called fad face and if it continues on look

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Speaker 1: out and by the way, I thought the question about

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Speaker 1: you know, how do you get the name pickleball? That

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Speaker 1: was a deally of a question after talk. Didn't you

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Speaker 1: miss this, Jason? Come on, come on, come on, come back.

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Speaker 1: Between dil dill, pickle jokes and schlitz, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: lions references, bowling, I've got I've got a half sour

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Speaker 1: taste in my mouth. Boy, Jason Kelly, my man, our

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Speaker 1: own Bloomberg we're talking about pickleball, of course. Uh. He

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Speaker 1: brings the knowledge big time and he's coming with it always.

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Speaker 1: You know, a pleasure to talk with you, Jason, Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much. Good to see you guys. This has

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Speaker 1: been the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast and we explore

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Speaker 1: some of the big money issues in the world of

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Speaker 1: sports on Michael Bar. You can follow me on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at Big Bar Sports and look for me on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at Scarlet Food and on on Twitter at the Scotts Sour.

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Speaker 1: And do not forget to catch our podcast that is Monday's,

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Speaker 1: Wednesdays and Thursdays. We call it the m WT. All

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Speaker 1: on your podcast platforms and right here on Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: of Sports and Bloomberg Radio.