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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From house stuff works dot Com. Hello and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Caroline and I'm Kristin Kristen. I grew

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Speaker 1: up in a household where both of my parents worked

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Speaker 1: the exact same amount, essentially they broke. Both worked for

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Speaker 1: an airline. My dad was a pilot, my mom is

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Speaker 1: still a flight attendant, and so they kind of split

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Speaker 1: household and parenting duties. While one was flying, the other

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Speaker 1: would be home watching their precious little snowflake daughter. Is

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Speaker 1: that you? That would be me? Not your sweet sisters. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: not not the sister they keep locked up in the closet. Uh.

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Speaker 1: But despite the fact that they worked the exact same

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Speaker 1: amount and they were home kind of the same amount,

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Speaker 1: my mother was still sorry dad. My mother was still

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Speaker 1: always the one who was responsible for the cooking and

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Speaker 1: most of the cleaning, and actually I was kind of

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Speaker 1: bombed when my mom would go on a trip because

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Speaker 1: that meant that I would be eating kid cuisine out

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Speaker 1: of the freezer, and I just always got upset that

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Speaker 1: the pudding went in the oven. With the rest of

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Speaker 1: the food. The pudding was hot. But anyway, my point

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Speaker 1: is that in straight households such as the one I

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Speaker 1: grew up in, the chores are not always shared equally.

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Speaker 1: No um. And first of all, my response to the

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Speaker 1: kid cuisine thing is, I thought that penguin mascot was

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Speaker 1: really cool, but I never got that kid cuisine. So

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Speaker 1: you were kind to live in my dream. Wow, the

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Speaker 1: grass is always greener, yes, but similar to your household,

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Speaker 1: my folks, same kind of deal. Both working parents and

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Speaker 1: mom cooked dinner every night, ended the dishes. And now

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Speaker 1: that I am an adult who cooks her own food

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Speaker 1: and understand what it takes to prepare a meal, um,

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Speaker 1: just for one. She was cooking for like like twelve

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Speaker 1: early twelve, anywhere from like five to seven people, and

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Speaker 1: I used to go in and nag her all the time,

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Speaker 1: like she would have gotten home from work working on

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Speaker 1: a large dinner and here comes little Kristen like wines dinner. Enemy. Ready,

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Speaker 1: I still do that. I now understand her frustration with that,

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Speaker 1: because my goodness, those are a lot of balls to juggle.

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Speaker 1: But that imbalance of household duties is certainly not unique

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Speaker 1: to our upbringings. This happens all the time, especially in

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Speaker 1: straight couples. Right there was a New York Times article

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Speaker 1: talking about they profiled a few straight couples who aren't

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Speaker 1: letting gender determine the division of labor at home. But

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Speaker 1: this is not really reality for a lot of couples

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Speaker 1: out there. Um. The University of Wisconsin's National Survey of

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Speaker 1: Families and household shows that the average wife does thirty

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Speaker 1: one hours of housework a week while the average husband

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Speaker 1: does fourteen, is about two to one. And when the

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Speaker 1: wives stay home and the husbands are the sole earners,

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Speaker 1: that ratio goes up to about three to one, with

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Speaker 1: the women doing thirty eight hours of housework versus twelve

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Speaker 1: hours for the men. But when both have full time

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Speaker 1: paying jobs, do you think that do you think it

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Speaker 1: evens out? No? No, you're you are right, Christen Conger. Noe.

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Speaker 1: The women still end up doing twenty eight hours of

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Speaker 1: housework versus sixteen, which is still about two to one.

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Speaker 1: And even if the wife is working and the husband

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Speaker 1: is not, And guys, this isn't we're not We're not

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Speaker 1: out to give you a hard time here, But even

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Speaker 1: when the husband is not working, the wife still ends

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Speaker 1: up doing most of the housework, and that does not

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Speaker 1: even take into account childcare, and the ratio is ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: For the yes, the ratio is incredibly skewed, and this

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Speaker 1: is probably news to absolutely no one, um, but but

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Speaker 1: the ratio of female to male child hairgiving is around

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Speaker 1: fifteen to one to one. And as the New York

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Speaker 1: Times article points out, that's not much different from ninety

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Speaker 1: years ago. So our grandparents and great grandparents still had

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Speaker 1: this same sort of childcare ratio. And it's this interesting

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Speaker 1: phenomenon where socially and professionally women and men now enjoy

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Speaker 1: a lot of equality. But once we come back home,

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Speaker 1: there's something that happens. There's some sort of breakdown. Now

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Speaker 1: that's not to say that people, even just among my

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Speaker 1: roommates for example, um, we are not we're not in

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Speaker 1: a relationship, but I mean we've lived under the same

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Speaker 1: roof now for going on two years, and over that

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Speaker 1: period of time we've adopted kind of our own chores.

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Speaker 1: For instance, I never take out the trash. God, Kristen,

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Speaker 1: I hope my roommates aren't listening, but you know what

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Speaker 1: they've probab we realized that I hate taking out the trash.

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Speaker 1: It just does not It's not something that I do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you have to find your niche. Exactly what is your niche?

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Speaker 1: I am a fantastic dish washer filler I do. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I will go in and I will if someone goes

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Speaker 1: in there and sloppily throws in mugs and whatnot, I

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Speaker 1: will go back. I will rearrange things and I will

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Speaker 1: clean out the dishes in a very tidy fashion. The

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Speaker 1: trash can no. Thanks. Well, so, yeah, it's it would

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Speaker 1: be hard to break down your situation since you're living

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Speaker 1: with a bunch of women folk. But in a in

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Speaker 1: a man woman's straight marriage household. Uh, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of gender norm gender scripts and schema going on that

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Speaker 1: kind of dictate what people do. Even when people go

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Speaker 1: into a marriage thinking, oh, we're going to be equal.

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Speaker 1: I am a woman and I am powerful and equal

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Speaker 1: and I have my rights, I can vote. But you know,

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Speaker 1: then things chores that the house still end up falling

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Speaker 1: along certain lines. And that's probably why that New York

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Speaker 1: Times article mentions that when straight couples argue, it is

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Speaker 1: most likely to be about children. There's a fifteen no

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Speaker 1: one raisio children, money, or the division of labor. But

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Speaker 1: the question that we're asking today is whether or not

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Speaker 1: gay households are more egalitarian because the article by Leasta

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Speaker 1: Belcon goes on to explain how a growing body of

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Speaker 1: evidence shows that the straits have some things to learn

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Speaker 1: from same sex couples because most studies show very um

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Speaker 1: a few differences in dynamics among gay straight couples, But

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Speaker 1: when you come down to how the household duties are

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Speaker 1: divvied up and conflict resolution happens, there are some pre

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Speaker 1: compelling differences. According to Charlotte Patterson, a psychology professor at

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Speaker 1: University of Virginia, hetero sexual fathers work in average of

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Speaker 1: forty hours each week, hetero mothers twenty four, and lesbian

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Speaker 1: mother's so there's an interesting breakdown of who's who's doing,

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Speaker 1: who's working, and how much. And studies showed that lesbian

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Speaker 1: couples experience little of the inequity that heterosexual couples do

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Speaker 1: around the house. And in regard to child rearing, there

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Speaker 1: still is not a lot of data around UM gay

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Speaker 1: mail couples in child ring just because UM gay mail

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Speaker 1: adoption is still not the data set is not as

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Speaker 1: large as because UM it hasn't caught up to UM

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Speaker 1: the adoption trends, So a lot of this focus is

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Speaker 1: on heterosexual UM couples raising kids versus lesbian couples raising

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Speaker 1: kids and USC. San Francisco psychiatrist Nannette Gartil says that UM,

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Speaker 1: there there is an interesting difference in UH conflict over

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Speaker 1: childcare among lesbian couples because it's not a thing that

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Speaker 1: that with the one ratio, where one UM person might

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Speaker 1: be very frustrated that they're doing all of the work,

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Speaker 1: but actually the big conflict comes that they're not getting

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Speaker 1: enough time with the kid, right instead of UH straight

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Speaker 1: couples households where the mom and dad tend to fight

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Speaker 1: over who is shirking responsibility as far as child rearing

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Speaker 1: and UM, the dynamic can change in lesbian households based

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Speaker 1: on whether one mom is the biological mother, and according

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Speaker 1: to Nanette Gartrell's research of couples she interviewed, considered themselves

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Speaker 1: co parents while considered the birth mother the primary parents.

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Speaker 1: So this looks like, you know, even if this is

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Speaker 1: not an adoption, obviously, this is when one mother has

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Speaker 1: the baby. Most of these couples are saying like, no,

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Speaker 1: we're we're co parents, even if she carried the child.

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Speaker 1: We are co parents. Were in this together, and I

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Speaker 1: want to spend time with my child. And so if

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Speaker 1: you look at straight couples, not only is there some

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Speaker 1: a lot of frustration that that naturally builds up because

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Speaker 1: of a lack of co parenting. Because one thing that

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Speaker 1: that New York Times article which was profiling parents who

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Speaker 1: were hell bent on making things as equal as possible,

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Speaker 1: at some point that the skills tip toward one parent

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Speaker 1: or another doing a little bit more um. But normally

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Speaker 1: and on average, those skills tips so much more um

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Speaker 1: against the mother who is often working and often you know,

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Speaker 1: taking care of the kids most of the time. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then also adding on that the bulk of the

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Speaker 1: housework each week, whereas lesbian and gay parents and heterosexual

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Speaker 1: fathers all report doing around six to ten hours, it's

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Speaker 1: the same for all of them. But once you tossed

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Speaker 1: in her sexual women were the number of skyrocket for us. Right,

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Speaker 1: And this is from Esther Rothbloom, his women study professor

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Speaker 1: at San Diego State University, and she says that heterosex

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Speaker 1: well married women live with a lot of anger about

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Speaker 1: having to do the task, not only in the house

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Speaker 1: but in the relationships. So heterosexual women report in several studies,

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Speaker 1: including Roth Blooms that we'll talk about here in a minute, um,

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Speaker 1: that they're having to do a lot of the household

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Speaker 1: chores on top of paying work, sometimes full time paying work,

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Speaker 1: and then they have to be in charge of the

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Speaker 1: relationship maintenance as well, finding out what's wrong, you know,

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Speaker 1: talking about the problems where you know, and we'll get

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Speaker 1: into withdraw and demand also, um. And before we go

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Speaker 1: any farther, just to reiterate again, this is this is

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Speaker 1: not some kind of diet tribe against um, straight men

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Speaker 1: in household because what we discovered through this research is

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Speaker 1: that gender is not necessarily the crucial variable here. It's

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Speaker 1: not a man versus woman thing. It's about a balance,

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Speaker 1: a basic balance or imbalance of power. It all comes

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Speaker 1: back to the power and the money, the power of

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Speaker 1: the babe. Um. Ria Roslin study that that I was

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Speaker 1: referencing h was published in the journal Sex Roles in

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Speaker 1: two thousand five, and it looked at whether same sex

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Speaker 1: households are more egalitarian, and she and her team surveyed

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Speaker 1: same sex couples who had civil unions in Vermont during

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Speaker 1: the first year of that legislation, which was two thousand,

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Speaker 1: two thousand one. She also looked at same sex couples

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Speaker 1: not in civil unions and heterosexual married couples, and I

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Speaker 1: think she pulled the heterosexual married couples from uh, the

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Speaker 1: same sex couples who were in civil unions. They were siblings,

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Speaker 1: I believe, yeah. And she found that married heterosexual couples

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Speaker 1: had a more traditional gender division of finances, household tasks,

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Speaker 1: and relationship maintenance behaviors, and found that few differences existed

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Speaker 1: between lesbians and civil unions and those not in civil unions.

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Speaker 1: It was slightly different for gay me in UM because

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Speaker 1: gay men and civil unions did differ from men not

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Speaker 1: in civil unions as far as relationship stuff, division of finances,

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Speaker 1: and whatnot. And a lot of the imbalance was often

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Speaker 1: related back to power and income, and this is not

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Speaker 1: a new concept at all. UM. A lot of social

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Speaker 1: science research has found that within households, the person who

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Speaker 1: earns the higher income, which typically happens to be the guy,

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Speaker 1: ends up doing less housework than those who earned a

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Speaker 1: lower income, which has traditionally been the female. UM. In

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Speaker 1: this study, the married heterosexual women were more likely to

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Speaker 1: report their partner paid for items in general, including the rent, utilities, groceries.

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Speaker 1: And I would just like to point out the woman's

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Speaker 1: clothing and personal spending money. That's weird. Um. These women

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Speaker 1: also reported doing more of the household tasks, while our

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Speaker 1: partner was more likely to do the outside chores, drive

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Speaker 1: the car when traveling together, and fixing drinks for company

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Speaker 1: because we live in mad men, but it in. I

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Speaker 1: think that some of this is probably a natural byproduct

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Speaker 1: of people playing to their own strengths, such as my

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Speaker 1: impeccable dishwasher arranging skills versus your maybe better trash taking

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Speaker 1: out if we were I'm very yes, now, I am

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Speaker 1: very good at taking the trash out. I am terrible

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Speaker 1: at emptying the dishwasher. I would rather throw myself into traffic.

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Speaker 1: See we would, we would complement each other, well, we

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Speaker 1: would if we got married. Um let's see. But as

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Speaker 1: opposed to the heterosexual women who who felt saddled with

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Speaker 1: more of the housework, lesbians were more likely to report

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Speaker 1: sharing finances and household chores more equally, and the look

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Speaker 1: at gay men. Both men and civil unions and those

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Speaker 1: not in civil unions reported dividing finances more equally, with

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Speaker 1: the exception of paying for utilities. Gay men and civil

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Speaker 1: unions reported more equality and paying for utilities than did

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Speaker 1: either the heterosexual men or the game and not in

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Speaker 1: civil unions. And according to the rath Bloom study, sexual

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Speaker 1: orientation was a stronger predictor of division of household tasks

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Speaker 1: than income difference. So one of the cornerstone findings of

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Speaker 1: this Roth Bloom study is that sexual orientation is a

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Speaker 1: stronger predictor, perhaps of division of household tasks than income difference.

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Speaker 1: And that adds a whole new spin to this issue

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Speaker 1: of how power influences the household duties because, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: in in same sex couples, that issue was virtually eliminated,

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Speaker 1: right because you know, I mentioned the typical gender scripts

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Speaker 1: and schemas that heterosexual couples have when they when they

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Speaker 1: tend to fall back on gender roles when they get married. Um,

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Speaker 1: but the same gender scripts don't exist right otherwise, But

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Speaker 1: this might come back to conflict resolution. Perhaps there uh,

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Speaker 1: there are some community patian lessons that opposite sex couples

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Speaker 1: can learn from same sex couples. Um. According to a

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Speaker 1: study published in two thousand three in the Journal Homosexuality.

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Speaker 1: When same sex couples argue, they tend to fight more

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Speaker 1: fairly than heterosexual couples, making fewer verbal attacks and more

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Speaker 1: of an effort to diffuse the confrontation. It seemed like

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Speaker 1: there was less um, there were fewer kind of games

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Speaker 1: and cattiness for lack of a better word, right, and

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Speaker 1: I mean like you were saying a minute ago. There

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Speaker 1: seems to be, according to the study, the ability to

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Speaker 1: see the other person's point of view better. It's a

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Speaker 1: more automatic seeing of the other side in same sex

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Speaker 1: couples and uh. They found that heterosexuals who can relate

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Speaker 1: to their partner's concerns and who are skilled at diffusing

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Speaker 1: arguments have stronger relationships also, so it's not like gay

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Speaker 1: couples are the only people who can resolve conflict easily.

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Speaker 1: It's more of a can you be empathetic and see

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Speaker 1: the other person's point of view and fight fair? And

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Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting that a follow up study

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Speaker 1: to Rothbloom's original UH egalitarian household study found that this

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Speaker 1: was I think three years after the study found that

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Speaker 1: both types of same sex couples reported greater relationship quality, compatibility,

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Speaker 1: and intimacy and lower levels of conflict than their heterosexual counterparts.

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Speaker 1: Now this doesn't mean that they are they're fighting any less.

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Speaker 1: Um Statistically all couples have about the the our rate

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Speaker 1: of fighting with each other averages out. But it seems

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Speaker 1: like we it's the way that we fight and listen

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Speaker 1: to each other and respond to each other that can

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Speaker 1: make all of the difference. And this reminds me of

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Speaker 1: a recent episode of the podcast Savage Love where Dan

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Speaker 1: Savage UM has Ira Glass from This American Life on

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Speaker 1: as a guest, and Dan Savage is talking about how

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Speaker 1: UM he and his partner tend to fight a lot,

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Speaker 1: and Ira Glass like, oh, my my wife and I

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Speaker 1: actually had to go to therapy because we weren't fighting enough.

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Speaker 1: It was like they were I and his wife were

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Speaker 1: completely scared of um making any sort of conflict known whatsoever,

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Speaker 1: Whereas Dan was like, no, this is the fighting is great. No,

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Speaker 1: it's like the best part of the relationship in some

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Speaker 1: ways because it forces you to, uh, to put things

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Speaker 1: out on the table and then you get over and

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Speaker 1: it's fine. And it was. It was kind of interesting

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Speaker 1: to see those two. Um. It made me think of

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Speaker 1: of that conversation. Reading this, these studies on the differences

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Speaker 1: in conflict approach and resolution and going back to my parents,

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Speaker 1: I'm really sorry not to harp on you guys. I

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Speaker 1: love you. UM, But going back to my parents, when

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Speaker 1: when they fight, UM, it's typically the dynamic is typically

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Speaker 1: that my mother is telling my father that he needs

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Speaker 1: to do something. She is demanding that certain things get done,

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Speaker 1: that they get done a certain way, and my father

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Speaker 1: is more like likely to be like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it'll get done. And that is something that is seen

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Speaker 1: across a lot of relationships, the old demand withdraw problem.

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Speaker 1: You see something that you want changed in your partner,

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Speaker 1: you issue a demand, and that partner quickly withdraws yeah,

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Speaker 1: or like I'm going to the basement. Well the you know,

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Speaker 1: the traditional script for the demand withdraws based on heterosexual

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Speaker 1: couples UM, and this idea that UM is thought to

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Speaker 1: stem from essential differences between men and women, where women

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Speaker 1: are essentially needling their husbands into doing things that their

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Speaker 1: husbands would really rather not do because it requires communication

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Speaker 1: and straight men don't want to communicate. Stereotype stereotypes exactly,

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Speaker 1: and Berkeley researcher Sarah Holly found that the stereotypical pattern

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Speaker 1: really does not just apply to straight couples. It applies

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Speaker 1: to anybody who's fighting. But it depends on power. And

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Speaker 1: so she offers the alternate explanation that, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: not just women are this way, men are this way,

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Speaker 1: but that wives desire more change, possibly because they have

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Speaker 1: less power, and so they therefore demand, whereas husband's desire

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Speaker 1: less change because they typically have more power and more money,

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Speaker 1: and so they withdraw to maintain the status quo. But

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Speaker 1: Holly and her team looked at sixty three heterosexual, gay,

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Speaker 1: and lesbian couples and found at the demand and withdraw

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Speaker 1: pattern existed in all of them. Right, But when you

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Speaker 1: remove that variable of gender, it completely debunks those, um,

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Speaker 1: those gender stereotypes about women as the more nagging and

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Speaker 1: needling in men as the more withdrawn and resistant. Because

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Speaker 1: it all comes back again to power and um she

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Speaker 1: phrases it as discrepancies in desire for for change and

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Speaker 1: you know, building on the whole removing gender from the

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Speaker 1: equation and then having it this particular fight pattern built

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Speaker 1: on power. Um. I know we're going back a little bit,

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Speaker 1: but this this ties into what we're talking about study

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Speaker 1: and sex Roles backed up the whole income power issue,

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Speaker 1: but for lesbians, and it looked at their households and

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Speaker 1: found that imbalances in their involvement were linked to imbalances

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Speaker 1: in income. Not so much that male power, that masculinity

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Speaker 1: that we think is such a stereotype as far as

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Speaker 1: the demand and withdraw, and found that women in equal

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Speaker 1: power relationships reported greater personal satisfaction and closeness and anticipated

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Speaker 1: fewer problems in their relationship. So there's really no relationship

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Speaker 1: script that says who is the dominant decision maker powerholder,

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Speaker 1: you know, as you might think in a typical stereotypical

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Speaker 1: male female marriage. Um, so the study posits that lesbians

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Speaker 1: may be less comfortable than heterosexual couples with unequal power relationships.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that that script is such a

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Speaker 1: good point because it's not only the influence of you know,

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Speaker 1: a man in a woman living in the same household. Because,

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Speaker 1: like that New York Times article that we've referenced a

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Speaker 1: few times, really hammered home is that despite best intentions,

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Speaker 1: sometimes it is impossible to completely equalize power because not

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Speaker 1: only are you dealing with your own interpersonal relationship, but

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Speaker 1: also the expectations um of employers, of friends, and family

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Speaker 1: on who will do what in a marriage, and especially

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Speaker 1: once kids are tossed into that um. One example that

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Speaker 1: one of them the interviewees pointed out was if a

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Speaker 1: woman gets pregnant, a lot of people ask her, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: how much time are you taking off from work? They're

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Speaker 1: not asking her her male partner the same question, right,

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Speaker 1: And a similar example was when the when both parents

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Speaker 1: provided their email addresses to the teachers, that if there

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Speaker 1: was a problem, the teachers would typically just email the mom,

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Speaker 1: thinking that, well, well she's the mommy, she's going to

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Speaker 1: be more involved than the dad. And I feel like

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Speaker 1: that's why the Berkeley research about the demand and withdraw

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Speaker 1: UM it's pretty revolutionary because she points out that power

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Speaker 1: to find roles have come to be seen as gender

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Speaker 1: defined roles, which is only perpetuated those those stereotypes and

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Speaker 1: kind of um place that undo burden on women that

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Speaker 1: were now kind of having to unravel as we are

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Speaker 1: becoming more active or as active outside of the household

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Speaker 1: as men are. And this has been going on for

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Speaker 1: decades obviously, but it takes a long time to break

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Speaker 1: down those cultural scripts. So as if we have not

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Speaker 1: made the case already that yes, indeed, statistically, gay households

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Speaker 1: are more egalitarian than hetero sexual households. A study in

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Speaker 1: the Journal of GLBT Family Studies from two thousand seven

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Speaker 1: reviewed the domestic arrangements of gay and lesbian couples and

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Speaker 1: found a strong pattern of here it is again egalitarian,

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Speaker 1: as in the fluidity, complexity, and deliberateness in which house

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Speaker 1: work is shared. And I think that deliberate nous is

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Speaker 1: really key. You you have to make a decision about

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Speaker 1: who's going to do what, and things aren't naturally falling

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Speaker 1: along the like the man's going to mow the lawn

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Speaker 1: and the woman's going to scrub the dishes kind of things, right,

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Speaker 1: Because if you and I, let's see, you and I

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Speaker 1: are living under the same roof, you probably don't know

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Speaker 1: that I really enjoy cutting the grass. I do perfect. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: lawnmowers terrifying me. I worked with a man who lost

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Speaker 1: a finger to a lawnmower once, but I'm not gonna

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Speaker 1: dust and I hate to work. We would be perfect

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Speaker 1: married people together, but we couldn't walk in assuming that now.

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Speaker 1: So yet again, this kind of relates back to the

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Speaker 1: Orgasm podcast and that that heteroscript of you know, ladies first. Um, again,

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Speaker 1: it's time for us to just abandon those scripts because

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Speaker 1: in all of these examples, whenever um, same sex cut

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Speaker 1: bowls like have no choice but to operate outside of

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Speaker 1: the the adopted gender scripts, usually things are a lot better. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we could learn something. There's always higher rates of self

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Speaker 1: reported rates of relationship satisfaction when you operate outside of

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Speaker 1: the scripts. Exactly. So, now I want to hear from

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Speaker 1: listeners about how they divide up chores, cohabitating couples out there.

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Speaker 1: Is there a balance of power? Right? Have you tried

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Speaker 1: to divide things up equally? Or is one person always

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Speaker 1: in charge of more? Is there a demander and a drawer?

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Speaker 1: How do you work through how do you work through conflict? Um?

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Speaker 1: I am so excited to hear from people on this

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Speaker 1: mom stuff. At Discovery dot com is our email address,

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Speaker 1: and we've got a couple of letters to share. And

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Speaker 1: speaking of that orgasm episode, we've got one here from

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Speaker 1: a guy named d A and he writes one thing

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Speaker 1: that some people don't know is that while some women

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Speaker 1: can never achieve orgasm during intercourse, some men cannot or

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Speaker 1: have extreme difficulty achieving orgasm during intercourse as well. It's uncommon,

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Speaker 1: but it does exist. It's called delayed ejaculation and is

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Speaker 1: defined as an unofficial condition, and it's not meant to

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Speaker 1: be confused with a rectile dysfunction because there is no

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Speaker 1: difficulty ejaculating be a masturbation, oral and other means, but

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Speaker 1: intercourse does not work. I think there's a double standard there,

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Speaker 1: because when a woman can't achieve an orgasm during intercourse,

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Speaker 1: there are no labels, but men who can't have an

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Speaker 1: orgasm during sex automatically have delayed ejaculation, even though I

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Speaker 1: think there's a correlation between the two conditions already. This

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Speaker 1: is an email from Brooke that is in response to

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Speaker 1: an email we read earlier about role models and the

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Speaker 1: scientific community. She says, I'm a woman and I'm currently

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Speaker 1: pursuing a bachelor's degrees in both mechanical engineering and physics,

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Speaker 1: and I completely disagree with the sentiment that a woman

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Speaker 1: who does not desire, or who does not prioritize family

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Speaker 1: over everything else does not have a human side. I

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Speaker 1: may have misunderstood, and I don't know chloes experiences, but

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Speaker 1: this is a common and downright trusting frustrating perception that

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Speaker 1: many people have. Regardless, I know that there are many

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Speaker 1: women who do wish to have a family one day

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Speaker 1: or do currently or have concrete plants regarding it, but

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Speaker 1: I feel like they are the norm. This is something

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Speaker 1: that is not only expected of women, but it is

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Speaker 1: assumed of them. Scientists who enjoy their works, been a

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Speaker 1: lot of time doing it, and even travel a lot

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Speaker 1: are not in human emotionless automatons. It's a stereotype that

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Speaker 1: is actually quite baffling to me, and it's especially present

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Speaker 1: for women scientists. Being involved in STEM careers does not

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Speaker 1: preclude motherhood, of course, but not prioritizing family, or even

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Speaker 1: not desiring a family at all, does not make you

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Speaker 1: in human. I don't know what constitutes plenty of successful,

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Speaker 1: intelligent female scientists, but it is certainly much less than

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Speaker 1: their male counterparts. I think we need more women role

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Speaker 1: models and STEM careers period. If this included happy, successful,

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Speaker 1: single or childless women who weren't stigmatized for that, I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't complain. So thank you, Brooke, and thanks to everyone

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