WEBVTT - Bruce Hornsby 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:15.956 Pushkin. 0:00:20.236 --> 0:00:22.356 The magic of Bruce Hornsby isn't just that he's one 0:00:22.396 --> 0:00:25.636 of American music's great piano stylists, or that he wrote 0:00:25.676 --> 0:00:27.716 one of the most unlikely pop hits of the eighties, 0:00:27.876 --> 0:00:30.836 a song about racism with two improvised solos that nobody 0:00:30.876 --> 0:00:33.396 at his label thought should be the single. It's how 0:00:33.436 --> 0:00:36.316 he relentlessly has kept moving long after he had any 0:00:36.356 --> 0:00:39.876 commercial reason to. Hornsby grew up in Williamsburg, Virginia, got 0:00:39.876 --> 0:00:41.876 discovered a playing a stake, and ale joined across the 0:00:41.876 --> 0:00:45.116 street from the Hampton Coliseum by Mike MacDonald the Doobie Brothers, 0:00:45.996 --> 0:00:49.196 grinded for years as a staff songwriter at twentieth Century 0:00:49.196 --> 0:00:52.676 Fox before finally getting signed. Then The Way It Is 0:00:52.756 --> 0:00:55.636 blows up in England, and suddenly he's lip syncing on 0:00:55.716 --> 0:00:58.436 top of the pops and getting bare hugged backstage by 0:00:58.436 --> 0:01:02.236 Elton John and a Tina Turner Wig. What followed was 0:01:02.316 --> 0:01:06.156 a long, restless second act, teaching himself two handed independence 0:01:06.156 --> 0:01:08.836 by scheduling benefit concerts just to give himself a hard 0:01:08.836 --> 0:01:11.596 dead line, making jazz records with Jack Dee, Jeannette and 0:01:11.676 --> 0:01:15.796 Christian McBride, bluegrass records with Ricky Skaggs and going deep 0:01:15.836 --> 0:01:20.436 into Shastakovich fugues that now shape everything, he writes. On 0:01:20.476 --> 0:01:23.236 today's episode, Bruce Hedlam sat down with Bruce Hornsby at 0:01:23.236 --> 0:01:26.036 the piano to talk about all of it. But they 0:01:26.076 --> 0:01:30.196 started somewhere unexpected, the Steak and Ale restaurant in Hampton, Virginia, 0:01:30.276 --> 0:01:36.396 in the fall of seventy eight. This is broken record, 0:01:36.836 --> 0:01:46.236 real musicians, real conversations. Here's Bruce Headlam with Bruce Hornsby. 0:01:47.636 --> 0:01:51.316 We were discovered. I we with the band. We were 0:01:51.316 --> 0:01:54.876 discovered by Mike McDonald, the Dewie Bruthers, beautiful, beautiful soul, 0:01:54.956 --> 0:02:00.316 great person, credible talent. We were big fans. We were 0:02:00.356 --> 0:02:05.476 playing the uh the Steak and Ale, the Jolly Oks 0:02:05.556 --> 0:02:10.196 restaurant across from the Hampton Coliseum. The Doobie Brothers were 0:02:10.196 --> 0:02:14.876 playing the Colisseum. We were doing our gig, so we 0:02:14.956 --> 0:02:17.436 decided that we'd go. We knew where they were staying, 0:02:17.476 --> 0:02:21.476 the Sheraton Coliseum. So my drummer, John Molo, and I 0:02:21.996 --> 0:02:23.996 two big guys. He's a big, strong guy. He's just 0:02:23.996 --> 0:02:27.436 a big bony ass, but still tall. We went to 0:02:27.436 --> 0:02:31.596 the Sharraton Colisseum and we walked in looking for Mike, 0:02:31.636 --> 0:02:33.876 and he's standing right there in the lobby. So we 0:02:33.956 --> 0:02:36.156 go up to him and we're sort of towering over him. 0:02:36.196 --> 0:02:39.556 We said, hey, Mike, we're the baddest motherfuckers in this 0:02:39.716 --> 0:02:42.676 town and we're playing at the stake and ale over there. 0:02:42.876 --> 0:02:47.676 Of course, those two statements don't go together, really, So 0:02:47.756 --> 0:02:49.716 sure enough he did come. It was their night off, 0:02:49.716 --> 0:02:52.116 and the next night they were playing at the Hampton Coliseum, 0:02:52.916 --> 0:02:55.996 and we'd saved all our what we called the originals, 0:02:56.076 --> 0:02:59.956 my songs that we had played. We'd actually pulled off 0:02:59.956 --> 0:03:05.196 a pretty difficult trick as lounge entertainers. We were starting 0:03:05.236 --> 0:03:07.876 to we'd started maybe six y eight months before this. 0:03:07.996 --> 0:03:12.556 Two slipped songs of mine in between brick House and 0:03:12.636 --> 0:03:16.716 Shake Your Booty, and we acquired an audience gradually who 0:03:16.996 --> 0:03:19.516 wanted us to wanted to just hear those songs and 0:03:19.636 --> 0:03:24.236 not the top forty dance material. So that was great, 0:03:24.436 --> 0:03:26.036 it was good. That was hard. It's hard to do. 0:03:27.396 --> 0:03:31.676 So he so we saved originals. He came in, he 0:03:31.796 --> 0:03:35.116 brought a couple of his roady friends and the crew 0:03:36.076 --> 0:03:40.036 and and we just wore it out. And he came 0:03:40.116 --> 0:03:43.636 up and was a little blown by it. He said, Hey, 0:03:44.076 --> 0:03:48.516 that was really something. Come over and join me at 0:03:48.516 --> 0:03:51.556 the Share It and let's just hang out. So we did, 0:03:53.396 --> 0:03:56.036 and then we're sort of sitting around whatever bar in 0:03:56.356 --> 0:03:57.676 the coliseum. 0:03:58.116 --> 0:03:58.196 Uh. 0:03:58.356 --> 0:04:01.156 And then and while we're hanging he says, hey, coming 0:04:01.236 --> 0:04:03.236 up to my room where we got our new record 0:04:03.316 --> 0:04:05.436 coming out tomorrow, I'd like to play it for It's 0:04:05.476 --> 0:04:10.116 called Minute by Minute. It's okay, Sure. So we go 0:04:10.276 --> 0:04:12.436 up there and he's playing What a Fool Believes in 0:04:12.436 --> 0:04:17.076 a Minute by Minute and it's fantastic. We're just kind 0:04:17.076 --> 0:04:23.036 of blown away by the whole experience, and he started 0:04:23.036 --> 0:04:25.956 talking about turning us on to his producer, Ted Templeman, 0:04:26.076 --> 0:04:29.196 and I drove home just going, oh my god, is 0:04:29.676 --> 0:04:32.796 this it? Is this the big thing? Next night he 0:04:32.876 --> 0:04:35.276 came back after the gig, he sat in with the 0:04:35.276 --> 0:04:37.796 place was packed. If we worred have gotten out, he 0:04:37.876 --> 0:04:40.876 sat in with us on a song, and a couple 0:04:40.916 --> 0:04:42.876 of nights later we sat in with them at the 0:04:42.956 --> 0:04:48.796 Richmond Coliseum and we're going, Wow, is this the big break? 0:04:49.116 --> 0:04:53.156 So that was say December one, nineteen seventy eight, and 0:04:53.196 --> 0:04:58.676 I got signed in April of nineteen eighty five, so 0:05:00.236 --> 0:05:03.036 no such luck. We went out and slept on his 0:05:03.196 --> 0:05:06.476 floor for ten nights in February of seventy nine, Molo 0:05:06.556 --> 0:05:09.756 and I and he was at that point he was 0:05:09.796 --> 0:05:12.636 singing on every record under the sun in La. So 0:05:15.196 --> 0:05:18.276 many great moments of Mike being a background singer on 0:05:18.916 --> 0:05:22.396 great records. He would take our tape, which was pretty 0:05:22.436 --> 0:05:25.756 bad alas it was not great. He would take our 0:05:27.196 --> 0:05:33.876 little reel to reel and give it to producers. From that, 0:05:34.036 --> 0:05:37.796 we got some producer interests from that tape got me 0:05:37.996 --> 0:05:41.236 a songwriter deal, and a year and a half later, 0:05:41.316 --> 0:05:43.436 I moved to La as a staff songwriter for twenty 0:05:43.476 --> 0:05:48.436 seventury Fox in nineteen eighty and was grinding away again 0:05:48.596 --> 0:05:50.596 five years after that, which was a year and a 0:05:50.636 --> 0:05:53.876 half after Mike. After we met Mike, I got my 0:05:54.036 --> 0:05:57.916 record deal and so that wasn't luck. It took me 0:05:57.956 --> 0:06:03.316 a while to find my own voice, something that was 0:06:03.516 --> 0:06:07.356 unique to me in some way. Before that, I guess 0:06:07.436 --> 0:06:10.516 I probably sounded kind of like Abie Brothers copy or 0:06:10.716 --> 0:06:17.396 Steely Danish copy. Uh. But finally I I assimulated a 0:06:17.436 --> 0:06:20.556 bunch of different influences that were always influencers that I loved. 0:06:20.596 --> 0:06:24.116 But I featured some more sort of Americano with more 0:06:24.236 --> 0:06:29.476 folk or Appalachian instruments. We got the great David Mansfield 0:06:29.476 --> 0:06:33.756 playing fiddle mandolin, so the range I was playing accordion. 0:06:34.956 --> 0:06:38.076 That was the range was sort of our version of 0:06:38.076 --> 0:06:41.236 of the band, and we were going for that kind 0:06:41.236 --> 0:06:47.796 of feeling. Uh uh so uh then but the but 0:06:47.836 --> 0:06:50.636 then we didn't get signed with that. I was frustrated 0:06:50.676 --> 0:06:53.156 with the way my song sounded with this with the band, 0:06:53.276 --> 0:06:54.956 so I went in with a drum machine and a 0:06:54.996 --> 0:06:58.916 piano and made about four demos and that's the tape 0:06:58.916 --> 0:07:03.316 that didn't get passed on. And the former rhythm guitar 0:07:03.356 --> 0:07:05.716 player of the Zombies, who was the head of R, C, A, 0:07:05.876 --> 0:07:10.596 A and R beautiful man named Paul Atkinson, he came, 0:07:10.796 --> 0:07:15.316 he came forth and offered us. And so then there 0:07:15.356 --> 0:07:18.636 was another company, big company Epic, that came in as well. 0:07:18.676 --> 0:07:23.956 But we were feeling Paul signed with him and then okay, 0:07:23.956 --> 0:07:26.076 then the record comes out and this is the luck 0:07:26.156 --> 0:07:32.996 part everyone several most people in powerful positions thought that 0:07:33.036 --> 0:07:36.716 the way it is was a B side, for it 0:07:36.756 --> 0:07:39.596 makes sense. It's a song about racism with not one 0:07:39.636 --> 0:07:43.836 but two improvised piano Soulos that's hardly the formula for 0:07:43.996 --> 0:07:50.596 pop success. So that's what they thought. They released another song, 0:07:50.596 --> 0:07:53.556 Every Little Kiss. It got up to seventy two with 0:07:53.596 --> 0:07:56.596 an anchor on the Billboard one hundred, and then plummeted 0:07:56.636 --> 0:08:04.396 away the poor uh embattled and embittered. Our BMG promo 0:08:04.516 --> 0:08:07.876 rep in London went to his friend who was a 0:08:07.916 --> 0:08:11.636 disc jockey had radio on BBC, said mickey, me, boy, 0:08:11.676 --> 0:08:13.316 we got this record. We don't know what to do it. 0:08:13.356 --> 0:08:16.116 We really like it. It's kind of country, kind of jazz. 0:08:16.156 --> 0:08:17.916 We don't know what to do with it. Would you 0:08:17.956 --> 0:08:21.316 give it a listen? So this guy, Nick del Koitch 0:08:21.396 --> 0:08:25.676 is his name, put it over the weekend, played the record, 0:08:25.676 --> 0:08:28.316 picked this one song, put it on the radio Monday, 0:08:28.956 --> 0:08:32.876 blew up and throughout the UK and there we were. 0:08:32.996 --> 0:08:36.676 So that's the that's the luck part could have easily 0:08:36.716 --> 0:08:37.956 as not happened. 0:08:38.196 --> 0:08:41.396 Has happened the good old days when one DJ in 0:08:41.476 --> 0:08:42.156 one city. 0:08:42.636 --> 0:08:44.996 If it happens to happen that kind of effect, yes, 0:08:45.596 --> 0:08:50.716 it has to really make a mark. And so the 0:08:50.756 --> 0:08:53.556 way it is did and we were over there quickly 0:08:53.636 --> 0:08:57.116 making a video in London and lip syncing on top 0:08:57.156 --> 0:08:59.516 of the pops and the Terry Wogan Show, which was 0:08:59.516 --> 0:09:02.396 the Johnny Carson of the time. That's where I went 0:09:02.436 --> 0:09:04.636 and met Elton John. He was on the Wogan Show 0:09:04.956 --> 0:09:09.636 when I when We Fledglings were also on, and I 0:09:09.716 --> 0:09:13.276 hear I'm getting made up before I learned how to 0:09:13.316 --> 0:09:16.556 say no to such things. I'm in there getting makeup 0:09:17.756 --> 0:09:21.956 put on, and I hear this undistakable voice, Wes Bruce holmespeed. 0:09:21.956 --> 0:09:26.036 Wesbruce fucking Holmes speed. Where is he? I'm thinking, well, 0:09:26.516 --> 0:09:28.436 I think that's Elton John because I'd heard he's on 0:09:28.476 --> 0:09:30.836 the show. He walks in with a Tina Turner wig on, 0:09:31.316 --> 0:09:33.756 which is how he appeared on the show, and just 0:09:33.796 --> 0:09:36.076 threw his arms around me. He's the most beautiful person. 0:09:36.796 --> 0:09:40.036 And he was a supporter then and all the way 0:09:40.036 --> 0:09:45.236 through until now. So yeah, great, beautiful moments like that 0:09:46.236 --> 0:09:47.236 continue to happen. 0:09:47.636 --> 0:09:51.036 And he was a big early influence on you. You 0:09:51.076 --> 0:09:53.996 didn't really start piano seriously until no, quite No. 0:09:54.116 --> 0:09:59.476 I was a hooper. I was a jock. So right, 0:09:59.756 --> 0:10:13.876 elp what is it, Amarna? My brother played it for 0:10:13.916 --> 0:10:16.996 me from the Tumblewee Connection record. We're riding down the 0:10:16.996 --> 0:10:21.796 Colonial Parkway from Willisburg Virginia to Yorktown, Virginia and he 0:10:21.876 --> 0:10:25.996 puts on this eight track and it just blew me. U. 0:10:26.116 --> 0:10:29.836 I just moved me so deeply. I got the record 0:10:29.876 --> 0:10:47.596 and every song was amazing. Burned down the mission, you know, anyway, 0:10:48.476 --> 0:10:48.996 so great? 0:10:49.356 --> 0:10:50.316 Now what do you are? 0:10:50.356 --> 0:10:53.516 There are there parts of his playing that showed up? 0:10:53.516 --> 0:10:53.716 Then? 0:10:54.116 --> 0:10:55.196 Not really? 0:10:55.316 --> 0:10:59.396 No, not really And then and my other influence was, uh, 0:10:59.556 --> 0:11:03.636 it was Leon Russell and uh I never wrote anything 0:11:03.676 --> 0:11:18.876 that sounded like that's the uh you know, I didn't do. Subsequently, 0:11:19.036 --> 0:11:22.956 I've been in influenced by Leon. I have a song 0:11:22.996 --> 0:11:47.276 called Country Doctor that goes like this, Yeah, that's necessarily lyon, 0:11:47.476 --> 0:12:02.436 but that's that's my stuff. That's something I developed later's 0:12:02.476 --> 0:12:03.676 too handed independence. 0:12:03.716 --> 0:12:05.876 Think what was it about Leon Russell? 0:12:05.916 --> 0:12:08.356 Then that? Well, Leon Russell? What I was just playing 0:12:08.676 --> 0:12:14.236 the letter and I loved it, and so I thought 0:12:14.276 --> 0:12:16.756 I'd really grocked it. Really sort of ingested all the 0:12:16.836 --> 0:12:19.796 Leon until I started working with him in the early nineties. 0:12:20.876 --> 0:12:24.676 Then I saw at the foot of the Master, Oh yeah, no, 0:12:24.756 --> 0:12:27.036 I don't have it. But then I was able to 0:12:27.116 --> 0:12:30.676 learn it from just standing here watching. 0:12:30.316 --> 0:12:33.516 That You have relative pitch, Yeah, that's right. 0:12:33.756 --> 0:12:37.836 If I hear. I can hear basic pop harmony. If 0:12:37.876 --> 0:12:41.996 it gets too chromatic, then I'm kind of probably out 0:12:42.036 --> 0:12:46.276 of it, probably probably done, but yeah, definitely not so 0:12:46.596 --> 0:12:49.836 I can sit in with the band. I went in 0:12:49.956 --> 0:12:52.756 off the street with no rehearsal and started winging it 0:12:52.796 --> 0:12:55.916 with the Grateful Dead at Madison Square Garden. So that 0:12:56.076 --> 0:13:00.476 sort of relative pitch allowed me to I didn't play 0:13:00.476 --> 0:13:03.276 too many chords on one because I didn't not the song, 0:13:04.036 --> 0:13:09.236 but I could go okay, yeah, okay, I think of 0:13:09.276 --> 0:13:15.316 the song. Yeah, So as I considered. 0:13:15.036 --> 0:13:19.196 Playing on the day when I was born and he 0:13:19.276 --> 0:13:29.156 went down, so. 0:13:29.156 --> 0:13:31.196 I would I know that. I knew that when I'm 0:13:31.236 --> 0:13:33.556 just it's just something that came into my head, so 0:13:33.556 --> 0:13:36.756 that if I didn't know it, they know on the 0:13:36.836 --> 0:13:40.676 day when I was okay, I got Daddy went down 0:13:40.756 --> 0:13:41.356 and hid. 0:13:51.796 --> 0:13:54.476 So yeah, when you say things like I love the 0:13:54.516 --> 0:13:56.516 tents in the in this hand, I love these kinds 0:13:56.516 --> 0:13:59.916 of chords, how did that develop? Were you just at 0:13:59.916 --> 0:14:02.476 a piano all the time, Well, I. 0:14:02.436 --> 0:14:07.516 Guess so more than more than most. I guess it's 0:14:07.716 --> 0:14:16.236 just uh exploration and going with what moves you with 0:14:16.236 --> 0:14:19.116 with My favorite my favorite people were people who gave 0:14:19.156 --> 0:14:22.836 me chills or on a groove level, like Leon Russell, 0:14:22.996 --> 0:14:26.556 just sat so deeply in this thing that I wanted 0:14:26.596 --> 0:14:28.516 to try to replicate that. I'm a short not sure 0:14:28.596 --> 0:14:35.396 I did or do, but that's the intent. So I 0:14:35.396 --> 0:14:39.796 guess I'm just following, uh, following the goosebump, following the chills. 0:14:41.116 --> 0:14:43.876 And if I play something now, I kind of know 0:14:43.956 --> 0:14:47.196 what gives me chills, and they're the chors like this. 0:14:49.356 --> 0:14:54.476 H I have a song on a record three or 0:14:54.476 --> 0:14:58.636 four albums ago called My Resolve, and the chorus goes. 0:14:59.316 --> 0:15:06.996 In my resolve, I move rock, maybe fall down. 0:15:07.156 --> 0:15:13.996 Try I indepted to stares me down in this face 0:15:14.196 --> 0:15:19.356 high come. I tried to stand up both the free 0:15:20.036 --> 0:15:23.676 stand up par not by yet. 0:15:23.756 --> 0:15:25.196 I'll move on up. 0:15:25.156 --> 0:15:30.076 Above the hill to maybe fully five hour. 0:15:34.196 --> 0:15:37.876 Our flower. And I just like, I just love that sound. 0:15:38.036 --> 0:15:41.916 And so that's that's what gets me going. Homember. One 0:15:41.956 --> 0:15:42.596 of the things that. 0:15:43.396 --> 0:15:46.036 And were you did you know theory back then? 0:15:46.116 --> 0:15:47.916 Did you could you say, oh, I'm about to play 0:15:48.756 --> 0:15:48.956 you know? 0:15:49.556 --> 0:15:51.916 I was learning it quickly, I was. I was totally 0:15:51.916 --> 0:15:57.796 involved in it, totally immersed in knowing the harm the 0:15:57.796 --> 0:16:01.356 theoretical aspect of harmonic movement chords. 0:16:02.836 --> 0:16:04.516 We'll be back with more from Bruce Hornsby. 0:16:08.836 --> 0:16:11.836 So I'm talking about earlier in your career, when you, 0:16:13.316 --> 0:16:16.556 for example, went in. We were talking earlier about the 0:16:16.596 --> 0:16:18.836 song you did with Bonnie Ray. You've done many songs 0:16:18.836 --> 0:16:20.116 with her, but the most famous. 0:16:20.436 --> 0:16:25.236 Yes, I changed that, Okay, I changed So when. 0:16:25.116 --> 0:16:28.356 You given all these influences, you had, all these people 0:16:28.396 --> 0:16:30.836 you had heard when you went in, you heard the song. 0:16:30.916 --> 0:16:32.356 I don't know were you given chet music? 0:16:32.436 --> 0:16:35.716 Were you given they gave me a cassette? Okay, I 0:16:35.796 --> 0:16:40.316 was staying at some hotel in Hollywood. It's a big one, 0:16:40.436 --> 0:16:42.396 right on Melrose. It's changed names. 0:16:43.476 --> 0:16:44.836 By the way, we should say the name of the song, 0:16:44.876 --> 0:16:46.516 which is I Can't Make You Love Me? 0:16:47.036 --> 0:16:52.836 Yes, yeah, fantastic Mike Reid and Alan Shamblin. Right, the 0:16:52.876 --> 0:16:59.716 two guys reloaded hats off, sitting oh for them. So right, 0:16:59.756 --> 0:17:01.836 I heard this. They gave you this cassette. Was it 0:17:01.876 --> 0:17:04.876 a bare bones I guess barre bones enough. I guess 0:17:05.196 --> 0:17:07.356 from my memory it has it being played on an 0:17:07.356 --> 0:17:11.196 electric piano. But I could have that wrong, so. 0:17:11.356 --> 0:17:29.556 Right, uh I uh, I think it was basically uh. 0:17:23.676 --> 0:17:24.676 So I changed it to. 0:17:44.756 --> 0:17:47.636 So that that chord that you substituted in that first 0:17:48.396 --> 0:17:50.876 what did you turn it into from what that's. 0:17:50.596 --> 0:17:53.116 What I turned it into is Yeah, yeah, so. 0:17:53.516 --> 0:17:57.116 It was it was just it was just straight, yeah, 0:17:57.756 --> 0:17:58.396 very churchy. 0:17:58.756 --> 0:18:04.076 Yeah. And when I first played, I played the electric 0:18:04.116 --> 0:18:06.996 piano the intro and I played him like that, so 0:18:07.276 --> 0:18:09.996 have some place to go, and I came in four 0:18:10.036 --> 0:18:14.876 bars later, so I was I was pretty faithful to 0:18:14.956 --> 0:18:17.396 the original for the first four bars when I'm playing 0:18:17.996 --> 0:18:19.516 some sort of electric keyboard. 0:18:19.636 --> 0:18:22.156 Okay, so now tell me what tell me what sound 0:18:22.236 --> 0:18:32.436 you wanted when you started in on the piano just then, not. 0:18:32.356 --> 0:18:37.556 Really Bill evan Z, but sort of h lush in 0:18:37.636 --> 0:18:47.916 a stark way rather than you know, that's very Klaus 0:18:47.916 --> 0:18:53.676 Ogerman or Ravel issued it, and I like that, but 0:18:53.756 --> 0:18:57.636 I like the other more that moves me more so. 0:18:57.676 --> 0:19:01.356 I'm just I'm just always looking to to feel something 0:19:01.396 --> 0:19:05.156 emotional and all this thing, everything that I'm doing for you, 0:19:05.196 --> 0:19:17.516 whether it's that or the tenth, it's all something that 0:19:17.756 --> 0:19:22.356 has something deep to me, a deep souls what I'm 0:19:22.356 --> 0:19:22.756 going for. 0:19:23.196 --> 0:19:26.956 That version of the song also has a wonderful surprising 0:19:27.516 --> 0:19:28.356 chord at the end. 0:19:29.116 --> 0:19:30.876 Yeah, well, I think that was there. I think that 0:19:30.996 --> 0:19:33.836 was there. I don't remember remember. 0:19:33.556 --> 0:19:37.556 Precisely, but the uh, it's the uh measure of that. 0:19:37.756 --> 0:19:59.956 Domind said, they have the sharp Yeah, yes, uh yeah, 0:19:43.796 --> 0:20:03.436 h m hmm. Yeah, that's exact thing. 0:20:03.516 --> 0:20:05.996 Yeah, which is wonderful because that is so that is 0:20:06.036 --> 0:20:08.476 such a beautiful song. It deserves to fade out and 0:20:08.516 --> 0:20:10.156 then just as it's fading, you hear this. 0:20:10.836 --> 0:20:13.036 Oh is that right? It fades out like it fades. 0:20:12.796 --> 0:20:14.516 A little bit, but then you hear that beautiful chord 0:20:14.556 --> 0:20:16.916 in the end. It's got such such a it's got 0:20:16.956 --> 0:20:18.356 such such power at the end of that. 0:20:18.556 --> 0:20:20.636 Well, it's very nice you to say. I wouldn't give 0:20:21.116 --> 0:20:23.876 myself too much credit for that. I think the vote. 0:20:24.116 --> 0:20:26.756 I think the song is so great and her vocal 0:20:26.876 --> 0:20:29.756 is so great. That's what really to me makes it. 0:20:29.796 --> 0:20:30.716 But I don't know. 0:20:30.876 --> 0:20:33.876 But to me, what's interesting for me is you do 0:20:33.996 --> 0:20:36.436 have these influences, and you probably have other influences we 0:20:36.476 --> 0:20:39.516 haven't talked about, but they all informed somehow. 0:20:40.036 --> 0:20:43.356 Yeah, sure, how you came to to that piece? 0:20:43.476 --> 0:20:47.276 Were there are there different influences on your song writing. 0:20:49.196 --> 0:20:49.676 Back then? 0:20:51.716 --> 0:20:55.836 I'm sure there there were, depends on what record you're 0:20:55.876 --> 0:20:58.756 talking about. I've gradually moved on. Each record was a 0:20:58.796 --> 0:21:00.196 little different from the previous. 0:21:00.716 --> 0:21:01.676 I'd say you're early. 0:21:01.876 --> 0:21:03.596 You know, if I think of End of the Innocence 0:21:04.676 --> 0:21:09.276 or Valley Road, you you love your suspended chords? 0:21:09.556 --> 0:21:12.676 Yeah, okay, right, I don't think, say into the Niss 0:21:12.836 --> 0:21:15.596 Value Road have a lot harmonically in common. One's just 0:21:15.596 --> 0:21:16.396 a straight. 0:21:16.116 --> 0:21:27.956 Ahead there's not a chord, that's the chord, and then 0:21:27.996 --> 0:21:30.116 the NIS is just is a leg. 0:21:34.516 --> 0:21:45.356 You know, there's nothing that's uh. So they're very different. 0:21:45.396 --> 0:21:48.276 You know, one's just kind of a groove thing, sort 0:21:48.316 --> 0:21:51.116 of a Steve Miller ish idea value. 0:21:51.236 --> 0:21:55.596 But they both have the I guess, particularly some suspensions. 0:21:55.636 --> 0:21:58.196 Yeah, yeah, they have. Right, that same chord that I 0:21:58.276 --> 0:22:01.796 was singing my so on my resolve over that's that's 0:22:01.796 --> 0:22:04.276 in Valet Road. That's kind of the first, the first 0:22:04.276 --> 0:22:06.076 little harmonic trick. I guess. 0:22:06.436 --> 0:22:10.916 You know we've talked about, uh and you don't love it. 0:22:11.396 --> 0:22:15.836 What people say is the Bruce Hornsby sound sound style. 0:22:15.836 --> 0:22:16.556 I can't switch to. 0:22:16.596 --> 0:22:19.676 Everybody's saying I got to play like you now then 0:22:19.716 --> 0:22:21.116 you completely changed your style. 0:22:21.316 --> 0:22:23.516 They might people might not know what you're referring to. 0:22:23.756 --> 0:22:25.796 You're referring to a story I told you about running 0:22:25.796 --> 0:22:28.436 into Nashville piano players who would come up to me, 0:22:28.516 --> 0:22:31.836 running into them at airports or wherever, and they'd come 0:22:31.916 --> 0:22:35.516 up to me and say, Man, all day long, people 0:22:35.556 --> 0:22:38.196 are asking me, hey, can you give me he played 0:22:38.236 --> 0:22:41.916 a little more like Bruce hornsby, And I would always say, Man, 0:22:42.516 --> 0:22:48.396 I'm sorry, Yeah, I'm not. Really, I'm not. You're probably 0:22:48.396 --> 0:22:50.196 not a fan of it either, because you get asked 0:22:50.196 --> 0:22:52.396 to do it, and I'm not really either. It's too 0:22:52.476 --> 0:22:54.956 bright for me. It's just something that happened. 0:22:55.436 --> 0:22:58.636 But as I told you before we were you should 0:22:58.636 --> 0:23:00.796 probably tell them. Yeah, my record company says the same 0:23:00.836 --> 0:23:03.636 thing to me. What do you mean, well, your record 0:23:03.636 --> 0:23:06.316 company would like you to play more like the Bruce 0:23:06.356 --> 0:23:08.076 horns Yeah. 0:23:08.116 --> 0:23:12.076 Well, but see he is an interesting uh story, But 0:23:12.156 --> 0:23:18.396 that that was lucky for me. Uh So. Paul Atkinson, 0:23:18.916 --> 0:23:22.356 the ex Zombies rhythm guitar player who signed me at RCA, 0:23:23.276 --> 0:23:24.956 he and a lot of others thought that way it 0:23:24.996 --> 0:23:26.636 is was a b side. They said it because of 0:23:26.676 --> 0:23:35.516 the unexpected massive success of that record. The big shots said, well, 0:23:35.556 --> 0:23:39.076 we we don't know what to do with this. We 0:23:39.076 --> 0:23:43.236 we didn't predict this, we predicted the opposite. Uh, so 0:23:43.316 --> 0:23:47.156 they left me alone. They they did not, they did 0:23:47.196 --> 0:23:51.476 not pressure me in that way, because again the song 0:23:51.516 --> 0:23:57.796 that really blew up was a completely unexpected, uh piece 0:23:57.836 --> 0:24:00.716 of music. So the next record, the Scenes from the 0:24:00.756 --> 0:24:04.396 South Side, we had this. You mentioned Valley Road, and 0:24:04.716 --> 0:24:08.956 uh that was also unlikely. It's a song about you 0:24:09.636 --> 0:24:12.116 city girls, society girl who gets involved with the young 0:24:12.116 --> 0:24:14.236 country boy and he puts her in the family way 0:24:14.276 --> 0:24:16.556 and they send her away to the school for unwood mothers, 0:24:17.236 --> 0:24:19.836 which is an old notion. I don't think that exists anymore, 0:24:19.876 --> 0:24:26.156 but uh it may. But uh, it's again hardly it's 0:24:26.196 --> 0:24:31.196 it's it's sort of hardly standard pop fare lyrically, and 0:24:31.276 --> 0:24:34.676 again I'm soloing like crazy on that when I'm playing 0:24:34.756 --> 0:24:35.716 McCoy tyner. 0:24:37.116 --> 0:24:48.876 You know, uh, what's it called chordal harmony? 0:24:54.036 --> 0:24:55.156 You know that sort of thing. 0:24:55.276 --> 0:24:58.436 Can you give us just a quick definition chordal harmony 0:24:59.156 --> 0:24:59.796 chords and force? 0:24:59.916 --> 0:25:09.436 Yes, yeah, the uh the interval of the fourth for 0:25:13.956 --> 0:25:14.556 so there's a. 0:25:16.236 --> 0:25:26.556 Extended wow that sounds like my song lawn Talk clup one. 0:25:27.516 --> 0:25:32.076 So that's a different one. So right, So that it 0:25:32.236 --> 0:25:36.116 was chordal harmony on the radio. What the hell? So 0:25:36.476 --> 0:25:39.196 I got away with this sort of thing twice way 0:25:39.236 --> 0:25:42.876 it is Vali Road. And then I guess it was 0:25:42.996 --> 0:25:45.356 kind of I think of those records in a certain 0:25:45.396 --> 0:25:49.116 way as novelty records because because they were in the 0:25:49.116 --> 0:25:52.916 best sense novelty, because they were so different sounding, and 0:25:52.956 --> 0:25:58.036 it was a sound that was not off putting. It 0:25:58.156 --> 0:26:04.076 was not incredibly it wasn't like it wasn't like that. Uh, 0:26:04.476 --> 0:26:07.036 And but that was it. That was that was all 0:26:07.076 --> 0:26:10.356 I was going to get out of the out of 0:26:10.796 --> 0:26:12.916 the morning zoo crowd. 0:26:14.476 --> 0:26:19.916 Then later with I think Hothouse, Yeah, Spirit Trail. Right, 0:26:20.196 --> 0:26:23.956 you're changing takes, You're playing takes a very different. 0:26:24.116 --> 0:26:25.116 That's right direction. 0:26:25.356 --> 0:26:30.836 Yes, I was. I turned forty years old in the 0:26:32.596 --> 0:26:39.516 late fall of nineteen ninety four, and I thought to myself, Okay, 0:26:39.596 --> 0:26:41.916 what are you going to do? You're going to rest 0:26:41.956 --> 0:26:46.796 on your laurels like most of your pop star friends, 0:26:46.876 --> 0:26:50.076 or they're just kind of not really deeply involved in 0:26:51.556 --> 0:26:58.996 moving forward as a player as a creator, kind of 0:26:59.196 --> 0:27:01.436 riding along with the same stuff that you've been doing. 0:27:01.476 --> 0:27:02.596 Am I going to do that? Or am I going 0:27:02.676 --> 0:27:04.596 to push to a new place? Well? I took the 0:27:04.636 --> 0:27:10.836 second road back to Keith Charrett. He was incredible. He 0:27:10.876 --> 0:27:16.836 had an incredible gift or skilled development that I call 0:27:17.716 --> 0:27:25.956 two handed independence, and he could play something in the 0:27:26.036 --> 0:27:29.476 left hand and then play something very rhythmically opposed to 0:27:29.516 --> 0:27:31.956 that sounded like two people playing this sort of thing. 0:27:34.556 --> 0:27:38.876