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Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host

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Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology,

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Speaker 1: and today on the show, animals who like to play doctor.

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Speaker 1: These critters have degrees in pharmacology they earned at Pile

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Speaker 1: of Twigs and Leaves University. Paging doctor Yogi Bear, We've

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Speaker 1: got a serious case of the itchies and bities. From

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Speaker 1: insect repellents to treating dangerous bites. We'll find out that

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Speaker 1: animals can look at a tree and see a pharmacy.

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Speaker 1: Discover this and more as we answer the angel question

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Speaker 1: would you call an elephant midwife more of a mega wife?

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Speaker 1: Joining me today is friend of the podcast and producer

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Speaker 1: of many lovely iHeartRadio shows, including the podcast Fake Doctors,

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Speaker 1: Real Friends. Joel Monique. Welcome, Hey Katie, Thanks for having

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Speaker 1: me back on such a dope topic. I'm assuming no

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Speaker 1: birds are into doctoring. Well, there's like a few a

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Speaker 1: few birds. Okay, Once again, I will face my fears

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Speaker 1: with you. Joel does not like birds. It is something

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Speaker 1: that somehow we're still friends even though Joel doesn't like birds.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know how we've respect birds I just

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Speaker 1: fear them right as well. Yeah, I want to hunt

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Speaker 1: them down. I don't, you know, have a vendetta against

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Speaker 1: the birds. I just would prefer they stay on their

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Speaker 1: side of the street. Okay, they get the sky, I'll

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Speaker 1: stay on the ground. It's no problem. What about penguins.

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Speaker 1: Penguins are more like plushies, and therefore they can stay

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Speaker 1: I see they don't. They don't kind of need to

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Speaker 1: learn to fly qualify as birds to you. Yes, So

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Speaker 1: if a bird is I guess, if a bird is

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Speaker 1: round enough and on the ground enough, that's okay with you.

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Speaker 1: If it's cheeks can apple, it can hang around, okay, adorable, adorable.

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Speaker 1: Love a penguin, all of them, the little ones, the

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Speaker 1: tall ones, that tuxedoed ones. All penguins are welcome here,

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Speaker 1: the business, casual ones, all of them, all of them.

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Speaker 1: Turkeys need to learn to fly, though, I need them

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Speaker 1: to get the hell out of here. Terrified turkeys are

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Speaker 1: a little more dinosaur like. I get that. They are

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Speaker 1: sort of you know, the head. The head is a

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Speaker 1: little bit you know, gnarled. Yeah, yeah, Well, we aren't

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Speaker 1: focusing on birds today. We're just talking about all the

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Speaker 1: animals who use natural medicine. I feel like we think

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Speaker 1: as humans that we've kind of quartered the market on medicine,

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Speaker 1: that we're the only ones who use it. But in fact,

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Speaker 1: animals have been using medicine probably far longer than humans

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Speaker 1: ever have, and they find everything out there in nature.

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Speaker 1: So Joe, well, have you ever seen a bear scratching

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Speaker 1: its back against a tree? Sure? Have I have too.

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Speaker 1: I actually saw one in person. Ones from far away,

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Speaker 1: Otherwise I would have peepeed and poo pooed my pants.

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Speaker 1: It was close up. I have a healthy fear of bears, yeah,

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Speaker 1: very reasonable, but this one was quite far away. It

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Speaker 1: was from I think I was staying at a lodge

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Speaker 1: or something in the Sequoias and there was a window

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Speaker 1: you could look out, and I saw in the distance

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Speaker 1: a bear scratching its back against a tree, and it

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Speaker 1: was so cute. It's adorable. They look like they're dancing,

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Speaker 1: just shaking their groove thing. I know, they look so

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Speaker 1: into it. It It looks so like they are just having

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Speaker 1: the time of their life. They look adorable. I know

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Speaker 1: they could rip my face off and eat it like

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Speaker 1: a big lasagna, But I still think they're really cute,

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Speaker 1: especially when they do the whole back scratchies against the tree.

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Speaker 1: They just they seem like they are an utter bliss

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Speaker 1: when they do that topier moment for bears. So what

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Speaker 1: do you think that they are trying to do when

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Speaker 1: they are scratching their back against a tree, Katie? Are

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Speaker 1: they not trying to scratch an itch? They probably are.

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing is that it's probably a number of things.

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Speaker 1: Like it's probably itchy for the itchies. They may also

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Speaker 1: be marking territory. It's probably like a multi functional thing, right,

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Speaker 1: Like they get the itchies out, and then also other

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Speaker 1: bears know that Gerald was here and he had an

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Speaker 1: itchy butt. But there maybe yet another reason. Recently, as

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Speaker 1: reported by The New York Times, researchers have found that

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Speaker 1: brown and black bears seem particularly attracted to using specific

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Speaker 1: species of conifer trees, and furthermore, they are attracted to

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Speaker 1: the scent of beach tar in experimental settings, and the

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Speaker 1: researchers suspect that they may be selecting specific trees for

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Speaker 1: a reason. Zoo pharmacognosy, which is a big word which

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Speaker 1: basically means animals that select specific plants or substances and

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Speaker 1: either eat them or apply them topically to treat themselves

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Speaker 1: for a variety of conditions, such as parasite infestation or

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Speaker 1: the itchies. Oh my gosh, trees are so helpful. The

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Speaker 1: trees are good in general. Hot take. I like trees.

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Speaker 1: They're good for Yes, they keep the birds away from me. Yes,

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Speaker 1: there you go up off the floor and away from

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Speaker 1: where I walk. And that's beautiful of them. Pretty Yeah,

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Speaker 1: keeps them birds arboreal. So you may have observed zoo

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Speaker 1: farm a cognosy yourself. Every time your cat or your

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Speaker 1: dog eats grass and throws up, maybe a case of

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Speaker 1: your cat or dog medicating itself. So often, but not always,

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Speaker 1: grass eating is a way for your cat or your

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Speaker 1: dog to help with a tommy egg or infection of

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Speaker 1: an intestinal parasite, And as you may know, it causes

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Speaker 1: them to throw up or sometimes have diarrhea, which can

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Speaker 1: help them get rid of the parasite or stomach bug

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Speaker 1: whatever it is causing them distress. Although sometimes they just

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Speaker 1: eat grass because they like how it tastes. So my

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Speaker 1: dog is definitely the latter, because we will just like

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Speaker 1: mow along on. I'm like, what are you doing, kid, Like,

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Speaker 1: get out of here? Yeah, you know, it's gonna make

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Speaker 1: you sick, and she's like, well, what if I said

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Speaker 1: a little bit more of this grass? Yeah, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: it'll be fine. Yeah. Like my dog, I think, sometimes

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Speaker 1: likes to nibble grass. It's very specific grass. She likes

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Speaker 1: to eat though, that like this thicker. I don't really

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Speaker 1: know the species of grass much, but it's like the

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Speaker 1: thicker grass and she maybe it's called crabgrass. I'm not

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Speaker 1: really sure, but she likes that. And she's also a

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Speaker 1: dog who likes a good vegetable, so she'll eat bell

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Speaker 1: peppers um with a gusto. So I think in her case,

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Speaker 1: sometimes grass eating is more of a culinary exploration than

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Speaker 1: trying to get rid of a tummy ache. But for

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Speaker 1: other cats and dogs, sometimes they will eat it because

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Speaker 1: they've got a tummy ache. That's good to know. And

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Speaker 1: then you can kind of keep an eye like, oh

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Speaker 1: he's not feeling good. Yeah, you track of it a

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Speaker 1: little bit. It's a good thing. Yeah, it's not something

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Speaker 1: to panic over, like you said, Like if your cat

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Speaker 1: or dog regularly eats grass and they've otherwise got a

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Speaker 1: clean bill of health from the vet, like they probably

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Speaker 1: just like the flavor. It's sort of like I love

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Speaker 1: ginger and ginger beer, and I also love it for

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Speaker 1: tummy aches. It's great, It's perfect for tummy aches and

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Speaker 1: delicious just for no reason. Yeah exactly, I'll drink it

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Speaker 1: just because it's good, but I'll also drink it when

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Speaker 1: I've got a tummy ache. Fortunately, it doesn't make me

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Speaker 1: yack up a bunch of grass onto the carpet. Awful. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's me big farm us. So they can get pills

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Speaker 1: that don't make them sick. So yeah, So it is

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Speaker 1: a relatively common thing found in animals that they will

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Speaker 1: eat stuff or apply stuff to make themselves feel better.

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Speaker 1: And so back to the bears. Researchers found that bears

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Speaker 1: seem to select specific trees, specific conifers, and they also

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Speaker 1: found that beech tar and turpentines. Turpentine is distilled tree resin.

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't really find it much in nature, but it

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Speaker 1: like the the tree resin in this distilled form. But

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Speaker 1: still it is a strong smell that would be similar

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Speaker 1: to the kinds of like tree resin that you would

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Speaker 1: find in the trees. And so in experimental settings, both

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Speaker 1: of these compounds seem to attract bears, and more importantly,

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Speaker 1: they seem to repel ticks. So ticks are a menace

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Speaker 1: to furry society. And it's hard when you're a big bear,

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Speaker 1: even though you got those big arms with big old claws,

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Speaker 1: still to get get all those ticks off you, especially

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Speaker 1: ones that are like right right on your back. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's hard. No, oh, right in the middle where if

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Speaker 1: you get a bad itch you would need a tree

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Speaker 1: to scratch. Yeah, got pull ticks out, plus takes care

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Speaker 1: of you so much disease. So that's exactly exactly. Parasites

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Speaker 1: are not just a nuisance. They can be quite dangerous,

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Speaker 1: and so far, while the evidence is circumstantial, it seems

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Speaker 1: plausible that the bears are in addition to getting that

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Speaker 1: nice scratch on which gosh it just if you, I mean,

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Speaker 1: like I imagine being a bear and getting that nice

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Speaker 1: itchy tree would just be the best feeling. But then

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Speaker 1: also they are getting potentially some tree sap as insect

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Speaker 1: repellent when they are scratching themselves on the bark, and

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Speaker 1: so they are getting this like it's like a backscratcher

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Speaker 1: plus zeet combination. Well might start selling that immediately, Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, yeah, I'd buy it in the summer. It's high.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to move around too much. Love a two

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Speaker 1: and one appliance brilliant, just pocket sized conifer. Give me

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Speaker 1: a little pocket tree to scratch my back on. Amazing. Also,

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Speaker 1: bears have been observed mixing Osha roots and their own

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Speaker 1: saliva into a kind of sticky paste that they rub

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Speaker 1: all over their bodies, which may double as an insect

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Speaker 1: repellent and bite soothing substance. Bears are foraging for moisturizers.

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Speaker 1: That is crazy. They belong on TikTok. They really get

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Speaker 1: bears on TikTok right now. Yeah, I know. I'm so

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Speaker 1: intimidated by like skincare routines online where it's just there's

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Speaker 1: like a five thousand serums that you put on in

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Speaker 1: a specific order, you know, masks you're you're supposed to.

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Speaker 1: I mean like it's like your face is an old

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Speaker 1: timey photograph that you're trying to treat in dark room,

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Speaker 1: and it's intimidating. Once I got to the droppery, so

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Speaker 1: I was like, this is so much. I was so

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Speaker 1: I got one that has like retina and collagen in it,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, it's like firm and like

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Speaker 1: refine perfect. But then I was scared of it, like

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Speaker 1: it was a chemical only use like pipe pets and

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Speaker 1: chemistry labs. Do I touch it? Is it safe? It's

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Speaker 1: very weird. It's so weird. It is very strange. I

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Speaker 1: have to admit I do use like do like have

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Speaker 1: my own very small in comparison skincare routine, but it is.

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Speaker 1: I try to keep it simple. Otherwise it's just it's madness.

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Speaker 1: It's timax out at five steps, five skincare routine steps,

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Speaker 1: and that's that's yeah. Yeah, It's like I wash my

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Speaker 1: face maybe some kind of exfoliation, and then moisturize, and

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Speaker 1: then that's it. I can't. I can't think about it anymore.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise it's all I'm gonna be doing all day. But

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Speaker 1: that seems like what you need on a very day

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Speaker 1: to day basis. And then I'll have like mass and

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Speaker 1: like overnight moisturizers because I don't know. That's what older

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Speaker 1: ladies did before me, when they hit their thirties, they

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Speaker 1: were like, okay, now a night cream, that's it. That's

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Speaker 1: that's what we're doing. Pet. Maybe just like I could

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Speaker 1: fill an immersion tank up with some sort of viscous

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Speaker 1: goo that gets me youthful, and I sleep in that

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Speaker 1: like a Disney villain, right right, Don't ask what the

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Speaker 1: goo is made out of. Certainly not the blood of virgins.

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Speaker 1: Don't worry about no yeah nood extract. But yeah, So,

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Speaker 1: bears have a very skimple, very simple skincare routine definitely

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Speaker 1: belongs on TikTok, though, I'd watch the heck out of

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Speaker 1: a bear beauty influencer just chewing on rocks and slathering

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Speaker 1: its own saliva all over its face. Just adorable. Can

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Speaker 1: you how to put on lashes? A little bear? I'm ready?

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine a Paddington Uh influencer just like Paddington

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Speaker 1: on TikTok? That that's that would get me in. That

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Speaker 1: would finally get me into TikTok like I've resisted so far.

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Speaker 1: But if Paddington was on TikTok talking about his little

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Speaker 1: his little beauty routines, that'd be it. I'd be done.

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Speaker 1: His overall collection alone would be enough to draw me in.

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Speaker 1: Let's go team off of the century. So this habit

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Speaker 1: of bears potentially to be using these substances as bug

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Speaker 1: repellent is not unprecedented at all in the Animal Kingdom.

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Speaker 1: There are lots of other examples, For instance, Capuccian monkeys.

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Speaker 1: These are New World monkeys found in Central and South America,

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Speaker 1: and they have a habit of rubbing smelly, acidic plants

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Speaker 1: all over their bodies as insect repellent. They've been found

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Speaker 1: to rub citrus, clematis, flower, and pepper plants over their

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Speaker 1: fur to deter parasites, which makes them smell lovely. I

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Speaker 1: was gonna say so now we're also making perfumes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: very lovely again foraged in the forests with their bare hands.

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Speaker 1: Talk about work uh hashtag Amish life. I would absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I absolutely watch these berries get down on the TikTok.

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Speaker 1: I also feel like I have enough of those ingredients

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Speaker 1: that I could be making my own at home, which

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Speaker 1: is nice. Yeah yeah, around and pepper root. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: these these uh capuchin monkeys also in captivity, they will

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Speaker 1: use plants that are not available to them in the

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Speaker 1: wild but still effective at the Dudley Zoo in England.

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Speaker 1: Captive capuchin monkeys use spring onions given to them by

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Speaker 1: caretakers and rub them all over themselves. They just go

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Speaker 1: they love these these spring onions. They'll grab them and

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Speaker 1: apparently immediately start rubbing themselves down, rubbing under their little armpits, uh,

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Speaker 1: rubbing Like, no, this is what you think. It's like

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Speaker 1: l or some sense that they have that's heightened that

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Speaker 1: we don't where they're like, oh this is yeah for me. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a strong smell and it may even

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Speaker 1: be sort of a like they may be able to

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Speaker 1: smell that it's kind of acidic, and it's that acidic

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Speaker 1: smell that's like, oh this this goes right on my body.

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Speaker 1: And parents will rub their young with it as well,

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Speaker 1: so it just kind of like rub down the babies

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Speaker 1: that are too young to kind of know how to

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Speaker 1: do it themselves. And so it's my my suspicion is

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Speaker 1: that it is a combination of instinct and learning because

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Speaker 1: they are social animals and so they probably instinctively know

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Speaker 1: like which smells kind of right to them, but there

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Speaker 1: may be some aspect of social learning in them because

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Speaker 1: their their parents will rub them down as well. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I love that onions is protection, yeah, which is do

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Speaker 1: it too human? Which is monkeys? I keep I always

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Speaker 1: get garlic and onions mixed up, so I feel like

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Speaker 1: I would probably try to ward off a vampire with onions,

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Speaker 1: and then it's like, oh wow, it's great. Now my

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Speaker 1: human meal comes with some onions. Mixing garlics and onion

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Speaker 1: is the best way to start any dish. I mean honestly,

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Speaker 1: it really. This is the magic to make your kitchen

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Speaker 1: smell divine garlic. So yeah, yeah, that's like goesn't anything.

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Speaker 1: Chocolate cake? Yeah yeah, Lessen, you can highlight your chocolate

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Speaker 1: cake with it. Just roast a little garlic, sprinkle it

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Speaker 1: on top. I promise you was a surprise. You'd be like, bam,

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Speaker 1: that's really flavorful. So another animal who likes to rub

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Speaker 1: stuff on themselves are the white nose coates, who are

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Speaker 1: adorable mammals who live in Mexico, Central and South America

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Speaker 1: and cowates sort of they look like a long game

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Speaker 1: a raccoon, Like he took a raccoon and just kind

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Speaker 1: of stretched it out a little bit. Oh. They've got

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Speaker 1: longer snouts, longer tails, and they they're very cute. They

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Speaker 1: like to scratch the bark of certain plants and then

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Speaker 1: rub themselves or others in the sap. So they might

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Speaker 1: even take some of the sap and rub like a

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Speaker 1: comrade up with this sap, and the SAP has been

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Speaker 1: found to have insect repellent properties. Nice. I like that

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Speaker 1: they're like, listen, mosquitoes. I know we're out here in

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Speaker 1: the jungle all animals, but what we won't be doing

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Speaker 1: is devouring me as somebody who was allergic to mosquitoes

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Speaker 1: as a child. I get it, man. I wish that

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Speaker 1: there was this team up between you and the cowads

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Speaker 1: and they were just like rub and sap on little

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Speaker 1: child Joel and mean like it's all right, we're your

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Speaker 1: magical animal friends and we're here to help you. I

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Speaker 1: used to rub popsicles on them because they hurt, so

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Speaker 1: they'd be like icy. But then now I'm covered in

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Speaker 1: like sticky sugar. So the mosquitoes game and ate me somewhere.

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Speaker 1: What are you doing for baby Joel? It was like seven,

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Speaker 1: It was really a problem. You really did. You really

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Speaker 1: did need the Disney princess treatment of having some magical

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Speaker 1: kawatee and bear friends. I have been so great. I

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Speaker 1: would have been less lonely and less bitten off, unfortunately

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Speaker 1: for you. The last animal we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: is birds in relation to animals who rub anti insect

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Speaker 1: or pellent on them. The ironic twist here is that

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Speaker 1: the birds use insects to get rid of insects sons. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so tons of bird species do something called anting, where

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Speaker 1: they rub ants all over their feathers, which causes the

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Speaker 1: ants to release formic acid, which is a defense mechanism.

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Speaker 1: And then this formic acid is not strong enough to

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Speaker 1: hurt the birds, but it cuts their feathers and acts

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Speaker 1: as a lice killer. This is horrific and ingenious. So

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Speaker 1: for these poor ants who are like, no, I know

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Speaker 1: what I'll do. Let me just ooze out this thing

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Speaker 1: that usually stops things from killing me. And they're like,

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Speaker 1: it's not working, it's just making them stronger, and then

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Speaker 1: they're crushed to death. There they don't exist anymore. For

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Speaker 1: the birds, like what A find it just if I

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Speaker 1: roll around as some ants Now I don't have lice.

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Speaker 1: I mean for human me, that's a really that's a

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Speaker 1: difficult trade off. Yeah, I hate swarms of things and

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Speaker 1: both of these creatures. No, I can't. I can't do it.

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Speaker 1: I want either, Please can't do it? WHOA No, See

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Speaker 1: this is the difference between you and me. When you

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Speaker 1: were seven, you're getting attacked by mosquitos and trendys popsicles.

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Speaker 1: When I was seven, I was eating ants and trying

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Speaker 1: to attack birds. Well, not attack you, lie, A thorn bear.

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Speaker 1: What was it. I don't know. I mean maybe a

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Speaker 1: little bit. I tried to catch birds. I would say,

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Speaker 1: like I think I saw some wily coyote cartoons and

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Speaker 1: I set up like a box with a stick and

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Speaker 1: put some bird seed under it, and I thought this

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Speaker 1: will work. It didn't. It didn't work at all, But

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Speaker 1: ants were easier to just maybe. Okay. When I was seven,

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Speaker 1: I probably wasn't eating ants at that point. I think

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Speaker 1: that was more of a five year old me activity

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Speaker 1: because I was curious, and they taste, you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of peppery. They're not bad. That's your scientist adventurer spirit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And they've become quite idelic to see across the culinary world.

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Speaker 1: So clearly there's something right. It's just going on exactly.

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Speaker 1: I haven't discovered it yet. So before we start asking

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Speaker 1: animals to be our doctors handing out m d's, I

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Speaker 1: think it is important to point out that while some animals,

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Speaker 1: like primates, may learn how to use medicine by observing

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Speaker 1: their elders or through cause and effect. For many animals,

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Speaker 1: it is most likely instinctive. Just as animals instinctively seek

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Speaker 1: out food and find food appetizing that fulfills their nutritive needs,

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Speaker 1: medical substances may simply taste good or be attractive to them,

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Speaker 1: and it may be instinctive, but still what's really interesting

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Speaker 1: is that animals seem to not just passively eat beneficial

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Speaker 1: plants all the time, like as part of their diet,

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Speaker 1: but seem to respond dynamically to having certain symptoms or

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Speaker 1: injuries and will use the substance to treat themselves, which

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Speaker 1: I think that is what's so interesting to me is

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Speaker 1: like it kind of makes sense like to you know,

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Speaker 1: if you eat a certain plants like oh, this plant

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Speaker 1: also has anti inflammatory properties and it's like great. But

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Speaker 1: if you eat something like you have something happen to you,

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Speaker 1: like when a dog or cat has a tummy ache

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Speaker 1: and then they eat grass. That's so interesting to me

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Speaker 1: that there is there is this instinctive ability to treat

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Speaker 1: a current ailment. Yes, it definitely comes across as like thinking,

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Speaker 1: like reaching for something very specific as opposed to like

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Speaker 1: this is my natural instincts, like oh, tell me hurts

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Speaker 1: eat grass which I'm sure is what bare thought processes

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Speaker 1: as opposed to be like oh my, this grass will

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Speaker 1: cure me, help that parasite pass. It's just very I

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Speaker 1: think it's kind of cool to think about, like what

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Speaker 1: instinctually humans know to do well, thirsty drink water. We're

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Speaker 1: not like, well, this will help my cell homeostasis of

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Speaker 1: my cells work good when I drink this water. We're

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Speaker 1: just like king this water now, exactly exactly. Although I

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Speaker 1: don't know, maybe some people think in terms of their

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Speaker 1: cellular homeostasis. I don't know. It's not me, it's not

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Speaker 1: I can tell you I have never considered that as

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Speaker 1: recent for a gospel of homeostasis. I just had myself

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Speaker 1: a big gulp of homeostasis. So before I continue, I

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Speaker 1: want to do a shout out to Eraldo Medeiros Costaneto,

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Speaker 1: who is a professor at the University Estete Fierra de

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Speaker 1: Santana of Resilt, who wrote an excellent and comprehensive article

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Speaker 1: called zoo farm a cognosi the self medication behavior of

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Speaker 1: Animals from which I got a ton of info. So

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Speaker 1: that is a great article if you want to learn more.

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Speaker 1: So some zoo farm a cognozi behaviors may be hard

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Speaker 1: to catch in lab environments, but have been observed by

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Speaker 1: people living near these animals for centuries. So a lot

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Speaker 1: of times like things will be written in folklore or

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Speaker 1: passed down kind of in oral histories. And it's really

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Speaker 1: important to pay attention to these things because while it's

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Speaker 1: true that like it is good to have scientific method

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Speaker 1: and try to establish things in these experimental settings, these

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Speaker 1: observations by a lot of cultures are really really significant

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Speaker 1: when it comes to understanding animal behavior, because it is

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Speaker 1: it can be really hard to be able to witness

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Speaker 1: animal behavior being in the right place at the right

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Speaker 1: time for a wild animal. And also when you take

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Speaker 1: a wild animal and say, put it in a laboratory setting,

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Speaker 1: they won't have the same behaviors. So I think it

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Speaker 1: is so important to take seriously these accounts of cultures

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Speaker 1: over many centuries of the animals that they have observed.

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Speaker 1: I don't watch animals that closely, like like I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe my dog, but like you like my

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Speaker 1: roommate almost, I'm like, hey, good, you know ed f water, Like, oh,

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Speaker 1: she's just a little authargic today. But I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: imagine like being out in the wild and being like,

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Speaker 1: oh that animals medicating itself. Really, people are so smart

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Speaker 1: people are That is an incredible skill. I think the

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Speaker 1: people who are like I can sit patiently and wait

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Speaker 1: for animals to respond and react and teach me something

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Speaker 1: about the environment. Yeah, seriously. And also, like throughout history,

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Speaker 1: I think there's been a lot of evidence of humans

401
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 1: like observing animal behavior, especially when it comes to what

402
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 1: they eat and medicate with, and then copying that and

403
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 1: discovering things that are helpful in human medicine. So there

404
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 1: is this example of species of tegu. So these are

405
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 1: large lizards found in central South America and Panama. So

406
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Speaker 1: Tagus are black, brown, and white lizards. They typically grow

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Speaker 1: a little over three feet long about a meter. The

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Speaker 1: largest species, the black and white tigu, grows a little

409
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Speaker 1: over four feet long or one point three meters. So

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Speaker 1: they're hefty, you know that. Big lizards. That's a big lizard. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They are burrowing lizards and they live and rainforests, deciduous forests,

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Speaker 1: and grasslands. So they are omnivores and will eat anything

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Speaker 1: that they can from small rodents, birds, eggs, insects, fruits,

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Speaker 1: amphibians and carrion to human food that they steal from

415
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Speaker 1: mini marts. Wow, they're not picky, no, no, there. They

416
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Speaker 1: have a wide palette and they are not too snooty

417
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Speaker 1: to say no to some fast food that for them.

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Speaker 1: So some tagus are actually kept as pets, and they

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Speaker 1: can apparently be quite chill in captivity, but in the

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Speaker 1: wild they are not that chill. They will whip you

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Speaker 1: with their tail if they think that you're trying to

422
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: attack it. But apparently pet tagus can be, you know,

423
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: pretty relaxed. Oh cute, I want one. They're adorable. For

424
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: some reason, pet lizards always crack me up. I just

425
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's it's so funny to me because

426
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: I definitely respect lizards, and I think they are conscious,

427
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 1: but I suspect that they're sort of entire philosophy on

428
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 1: life is so different from anything even remotely human that

429
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: they are probably completely bewildered by being a pet. Like okay,

430
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: well I'm in this thing's lap. Now, that's interesting. I

431
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: just you know, because like I can, like with a

432
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: with a cat or a dog or a pig or

433
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: a bird, I kind of see certain social behaviors they

434
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: have that like they kind of like, Okay, yeah, I

435
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: guess some buddies with this human then, But like with

436
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: tagus and other lizards, like, it's not that I think

437
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: they can't have affection for their owners, but it's something

438
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: lizardy and I'm not sure what it is harder to

439
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: show for a lizard even really any reptile. Like people

440
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: love snakes and you know, power to you, but I

441
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: don't even know if that pet really sees you as

442
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: like owner and pet as your relationship. I don't know,

443
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: ye like thing that cleans my environment every once in

444
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: a while, right, The problem is, I mean the thing

445
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: is like a lot a lot of reptiles are not

446
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: particularly social. That doesn't necessarily mean an animal can't have

447
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: the cognition to like be friendly to a human. That

448
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: that's not because you know, cats aren't like super social

449
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: either in a wild ct like certainly the types of

450
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: cats that are domesticated cats came from, but they can be.

451
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: I think it's just like reptiles are so their brains

452
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: are just so different, and so I just I feel

453
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: like maybe they're like, wow, this is a cool tree.

454
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: It like moves around and yeah, it's warm, and I

455
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: like that. So in Brazilian folklore, there are various anecdotal

456
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: accounts over the centuries that hold that tagus will eat

457
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: a certain type of root after being bitten by a

458
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: venomous snake. So the root is called batata detau, which

459
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: I think means tagu root, and it's also known as

460
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: the Jatropha elliptica Jatropha elliptica, and this plant has also

461
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: been used in human folk medicine for snake bites. So yeah,

462
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: so research on the plant has revealed that the plant

463
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,959
Speaker 1: does contain compounds that can have a neutralizing effect on

464
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: pit viper venom. So I find it highly credible, highly

465
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: likely that people saw these take goose chewing on these

466
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: roots after being bitten by snakes and then copied that

467
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: and found that the roots had this neutralizing effect for

468
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: snake bites. That is incredible that because literally, in Allow,

469
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: that's such a miracle. Like when I think about all

470
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: the things we do nowadays to like create an anti venom,

471
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: they have to collect the poison and the only do

472
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: your science thing and change it, and here's this root

473
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: that grows naturally. I mean, I will say, don't give

474
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: up on the anti venoms, because I think probably a

475
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: good deal more effective holistic medicine only Katie, Oh my god, no, no,

476
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: trust the anti venom, yes, how I want it if

477
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: I'm bitten, right, but how but if you are in

478
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: dire straits, right, you don't have access to anti venom

479
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: or in times before we were able to develop anti venom. Yeah,

480
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: this stuff seems to have had an effect, and it's

481
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 1: you know, we this is sort of the course of

482
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: human history. There we discovered plants and substances that have

483
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: these properties. Now we can refine those too much greater extent.

484
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: We can like isolate the compounds that actually have the

485
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: effect that we want. But a lot of these compounds

486
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: are things that originated from nature. So we learn from nature.

487
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: We can. You know, back before we were able to

488
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: develop medicine in the same way that we do today

489
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: with pharmaceuticals, we were able to find stuff. You know. Again,

490
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: that's not saying like go and eat a bunch of

491
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: roots and see what happens. It's nice that a lot

492
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: of people did that before our time, and trial tested

493
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: various roots and berries and stuff, so we don't have

494
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: to do that as much. Thank you for your sacrificing ancestors,

495
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: because I don't want to right, not to torment you

496
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: too much, Joel, but I do want to talk about

497
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: birds real briefly. Again, Okay, let's do it. Let's do it.

498
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: So sometimes birds will build their entire homes out of medicine.

499
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,959
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's just like man. If I could have

500
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: walls made out of thailannel and just lick the wall

501
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: whenever I had a headache, I'd so do that. It's

502
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: very helpful. It's like the Charlie the Willie Wonka is

503
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: chocolate factory, but it's like Willie Walker's funky house of pharmaceuticals,

504
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: and the walls are made of thailannel and the chairs

505
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: are made out of I don't know, xanax, all good stuff.

506
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. So European starlings will line their nests

507
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: with wild carrot plants, which contain be sidosterol, which deters

508
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: mites and stops mites from laying eggs. Well that's good.

509
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: Yeah again, diseases so many, Yes, it's like kind of

510
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's like putting mothballs in your closet,

511
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: except you live on the mothballs. I'm not sure it's

512
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:14,240
Speaker 1: healthy to live on mothballs, it would now, no, but cedar.

513
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: I mean people have used cedar, like cedar chests and

514
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: cedar furniture, which helps deter things like moths and insects.

515
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: So you know. Also, house sparrows are sophisticated enough in

516
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: their behavior that they may switch their building nest materials

517
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: based on environmental factors. During malaria outbreaks, It's been observed

518
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: that house sparrows use more paradise flower leaves in their nests.

519
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: These leaves are rich in quinine, which can help with

520
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: symptoms of malaria. So researchers suspect that the birds may

521
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 1: be instinctively selecting leaves that help ease their malarial symptoms,

522
00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:00,439
Speaker 1: which I think is really interesting. I mean, that's great. Again,

523
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: what do I know about malaria? It's painful and not fun. No,

524
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: the fact that they can switch it up just by

525
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: using different building materials. You have you ever gotten malaria? No?

526
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,399
Speaker 1: Thank god? I was like, because you're when you're saying

527
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 1: like what I know about malaria is like, oh my god,

528
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: just from that my text book learning. Yeah, it's good, good,

529
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: good man, because I've had like I've had I have

530
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 1: not had malaria, but I have had um, you know,

531
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: tummy troubles that have caused lots of bathroom time, let's say,

532
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: and to the point where sometime like, wait is this

533
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: am I dying? Am I just gonna potty myself to death? Here?

534
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: Nobody liked that moment. And malaria is like that, but

535
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: on steroids from what I can tell, and that's it's horrifying.

536
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: And it sweeps through a community very quickly, yes, easily transferable,

537
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: like malaria is not anything to mess around with. No, no, exactly,

538
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 1: would build a house to protect me from malaria if

539
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: I could? Yeah, it's it's it's not great. I mean,

540
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: it is amazing how many interventions that humans have come

541
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 1: up with for malaria, from mosquito nets to a sort

542
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: of like decreasing mosquito populations through like gene editing and stuff.

543
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: So it's we do have ways to combat it. I'm

544
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 1: just it's so interesting to me that animals as well

545
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 1: of like, you know, like, screw this malaria thing. This

546
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 1: is horrible. I don't know how they do it, but

547
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,760
Speaker 1: it's I'm glad they did. And ess looks really dope.

548
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: So so you did it. If a style function, it's

549
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 1: all there there you go. Yeah, so I think it's

550
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: kind of interesting that a lot of complaints about medicine

551
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: is that it's unnatural. Have you heard that kind of

552
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: thing where it's like, oh, oh, sure, you're putting random

553
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: things in your body blah blah blah. Yeah, which is funny.

554
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: Some people who say that are like anti medicine, are like, oh,

555
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: why would I put these toxins in my body? And

556
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,800
Speaker 1: then they like turns out like they smoke and drink alcohol,

557
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, or like don't bother reading anything that's

558
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: in their food. Right, But I also think people get

559
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: like weirded out. They're like, oh, it's genetically modified grow.

560
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's really good. That helps us not start Yeah,

561
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,280
Speaker 1: it helps make our plants more resistant to things like acidarine.

562
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: You want some genetically modified materials in the food you

563
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: eat that it's not all bad, Like you have to

564
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:48,439
Speaker 1: be discerning. Yeah, genetic modification doesn't worry me in terms

565
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,720
Speaker 1: of like my health. So like when if you genetically modify,

566
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: say a tomato, it's not gonna poison you. They would

567
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 1: notice if they accidentally modified a tomato to be poisonous.

568
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: The all the big thing scientists, Oops, this tomato has teeth.

569
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 1: Now we didn't mean to do that, So yeah, that's

570
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 1: not really a concern. The only like, the only concern

571
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: with like genetic modification is you don't want to make

572
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: a plant that's like so tough it outcompetes natural plants.

573
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 1: But we do that anyways, just through selective breeding of

574
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 1: plants and farming practices. We already do that. So it's

575
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 1: not like genetic modification is unique in that respect. It's

576
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: just you know, the same problems we have with say

577
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 1: agriculture and say like introducing a species somewhere or monocultures.

578
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: It's the same, it's the same stuff. Like genetic modification

579
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: has the same potential perils as that, but it is

580
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: not inherently a dangerous thing. It's just like any other

581
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: technology that could have negative outcomes. But certainly it's not.

582
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,760
Speaker 1: It's not just oh it sounds sciency and therefore it's dangerous.

583
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 1: It's like no, I mean, like certain like the dust bowl,

584
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: that kind of ecological disaster was just from farming practices.

585
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 1: It had nothing to do with like you know, modern

586
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: science of genetic modification. That that was just classic farming

587
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 1: problems and weather issues. I think it's always funny that

588
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: people think natural things are inherently better, which I feel

589
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: like listeners to this podcast, No, can't be true, given

590
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: that nature is full of terrifying parasites, animals who eat

591
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: their own offspring, and general mayhem. So it's not like

592
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: nature is this soft, gentle place. It's just it is

593
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 1: what it is. It's nature. It's full of all sorts

594
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: of things. It's literally chaos. It is literally chaos. So

595
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: many things have some things that are like highly organized

596
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 1: and function in the same way for millennia, something just

597
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: new and pop it off every day. And nature is

598
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 1: wild and complete, unpredictable, and if so, glad science was

599
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: like what if we try to put some order to

600
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 1: some of this right exactly, And so when it comes

601
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: to medicine, it's like, well, medicine, you know, being a

602
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: like upset that medicine isn't natural. I mean, animals, you know,

603
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: use medicine, so they they kind of seek out their

604
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: own medical treatments in ways, and so it's like, you know,

605
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 1: it is not it is not unnatural to use medicine.

606
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: It's just that we have often refined medicine to a

607
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: much greater extent than animals are capable of doing one

608
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: thing in particular. I think that people have hang ups

609
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: about are like a reproductive health use of hormone treatments.

610
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: We're like, oh, but that's like it's unnatural to do

611
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: those things. Like there's this it's this specific thing, like

612
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: once you start like controlling your own reproductive health, there's

613
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: there's a lot of like pearl clutching over it, being like, oh,

614
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 1: that's not natural, but act Actually, there's some evidence that

615
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,760
Speaker 1: animals may have figured out how to have some control

616
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: over their reproductive health for a long time. That is

617
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:15,760
Speaker 1: mind blowing, Katie, what how so? The Southern miriqui, also

618
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: known as the wooly spider monkey, is a New World

619
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 1: monkey found in Brazil. They are the largest primates found

620
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:29,280
Speaker 1: in the Americas, although they really cannot compete with Old

621
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: World monkeys or Old World primates in terms of size.

622
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: So these way around thirty pounds or fifteen kilograms. They

623
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: are brown, they are fluffy, They are absolutely adorable. They

624
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: eat fruit and they help disperse fruit seeds. They are

625
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: sometimes called the hippie monkey because aggression within groups of

626
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: monkeys is rare and they are super peaceful. Oh I

627
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,879
Speaker 1: love them already. I know, so female and males are

628
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: similar in size, so there's not really any aggression based

629
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: on sex, and there's not really much hierarchy in these groups.

630
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: The only aggression they really have is sometimes they will

631
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: attack like outsiders, monkeys that aren't in the group, and

632
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: it's unknown exactly why or when they do that. So

633
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: it's not like they are one hundred percent pacifists, but

634
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: they are a very, very surprisingly peaceful species of monkey.

635
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: I am upset that they have a bad rap when

636
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 1: they're actually out here just being kind, generous souls. Okay,

637
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,399
Speaker 1: what do these This is possibly racist? I don't like it.

638
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I get yeah, Like I don't know, it's

639
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 1: kind of funny to me calling them hippie monkeys. It's

640
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: like kind of insulting. I don't know. But they are, Yeah,

641
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:01,720
Speaker 1: they're they're very sweet species of monkeys. And really interestingly,

642
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:07,399
Speaker 1: during mating periods, female mariquis have been observed to eat

643
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: plants that contain isoflavonoids, which can raise the female's estrogen

644
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 1: and decreases her fertility. Ah yeah, but these same monkeys

645
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: have also been observed eating plants that contain stig masterol,

646
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 1: which may increase her fertility. So these two plants they

647
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,879
Speaker 1: will eat, you know, alternatingly throughout mating periods that can

648
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: either increase or decrease their fertility. So this, while this

649
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 1: hasn't been proven, it is possible that these monkeys are

650
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 1: able to control the chance of reproductive success based on

651
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 1: eating these plants. So I think it is something that

652
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: would be really really fascinating to see more research on

653
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: because it appears like they have the tools to be

654
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: able to exert some amount of reproductive control, which, to

655
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: be fair, like a lot of animals do. It's just

656
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 1: usually has something to do with biology, like being able

657
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 1: to reject sperm packets or you know, like um, but

658
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: with these they might actually be using plants to control

659
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: their fertility. That is so smart. Oh my gosh, Oh

660
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 1: my gosh. I had no clue any animal could do this,

661
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: but to know that they can do it, you know,

662
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 1: in both directions they get to choose, Uh, that's wonderful. Yeah. Yeah.

663
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: And so you know it's like I one of my

664
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 1: pet peeves. Now I don't have any children, but I

665
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: have seen these things about like people talking about how

666
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: like if you have any medical assistance with like pregnancy

667
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: or fertility, or like say you have a C section

668
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,439
Speaker 1: rather than giving you know, a quote unquote natural birth,

669
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: Like that's how it doesn't count. And that is so

670
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: silly to me. It's like, sure, okay, just don't wear glasses, then,

671
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,879
Speaker 1: I guess because that's not natural, don't you know? Like

672
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: so many like you're wearing clothes, Like what are you

673
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: talking about? That? It's not it doesn't count if someone

674
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: has medical interventions for pregnancy. Right. People are stingy with

675
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: their acknowledgements sometimes, and I'm sure they just want to

676
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: chalk it up to like, oh, they're just dumb animals,

677
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: they're just eating food, like it doesn't make a difference

678
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: when I feel like even animals, even when they're moving

679
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: on instinctly, like nothing is happening for just no reason.

680
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 1: It is chaos. But you know, again, people are out

681
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 1: here making choices, and even animals get to make choices,

682
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 1: right Like your dog prefers the crab grass some of

683
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: the others. That's what she likes. So you know, I

684
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: think it's it's strange and especially given the way we've

685
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:02,760
Speaker 1: seen you know, animals that mimic our way of thinking,

686
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: or maybe not mimic, but have similar patterns for example,

687
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: like elephants more and they're dead and like raise their

688
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: kids and they have like whole protective stances. Like we

689
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 1: know animals have feelings and cognitive thoughts about how they

690
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,399
Speaker 1: want to move through the world. And so I think

691
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: to deny you know, these animals, they're reproductive rights. Shame

692
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 1: on you world, boo, Yeah, shame on us. We're also

693
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 1: denying ourselves reproductive rights. Hey, there it is. Yeah. And actually,

694
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 1: speaking of elephants, Joel, African elephants have been observed to

695
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: possibly exhibit reproductive zoo pharmacognosi, as they will seek out

696
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 1: leaves from the boragin us say no, wait, boragins. Yeah,

697
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:54,760
Speaker 1: I think I got it. Bagginess say trees to induce labor.

698
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: So these, these same trees, these same leaves is something

699
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: that humans have been using for centuries to induce labor

700
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: in folk medicine in many parts of the world where

701
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 1: these breagness say trees exist, And it seems like through

702
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:14,879
Speaker 1: observational evidence that elephants may do the same thing. How

703
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 1: very midwife of them. Yes, I knew elephants are like

704
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 1: a top three animal for me love an elephant, and

705
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: so this does not surprise me at all that they

706
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: found ways to be there, like that baby is in breach.

707
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 1: We got to induce labor immediately, get them out here.

708
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: Please make a great anatomy show. But with elephants, Oh

709
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 1: my god, I'll be here. I would watch that so much.

710
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: I mean, Grandma elephant really holding down the foe like

711
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 1: you got your bulls on the outside. They're definitely the

712
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: surgeons where they're just all cocky for the reason I

713
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: see it. Yeah, no, I mean it is I would

714
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 1: look like Elephant society is so fascinating. First of all,

715
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 1: it's like pretty much a matriarchy, so it is the

716
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: female elder female elephants sharing all their knowledge, passing it down.

717
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:08,720
Speaker 1: The males are typically will be the ones that disperse,

718
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: so they will leave the group when they are adults

719
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 1: and go off and find a new group of elephants

720
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: to like, mate with and such. So the females are

721
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 1: kind of the constant core of a group of elephants,

722
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:26,800
Speaker 1: a pack of elephants, so they will kind of pass

723
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,399
Speaker 1: on a lot of parenting skills as well. So you'll

724
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 1: have like these grand grandmas and mom and aunts and stuff,

725
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 1: and they all they often show a lot of interest too.

726
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 1: When an elephant is giving birth, like there will be

727
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 1: a crowd of elephants, including juvenile elephants who have not

728
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 1: had experience with this yet, and it's like they're just

729
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: passing all this information along. Often, like the elder elephants

730
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: will teach younger mothers, like how they're supposed to take

731
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: care of the young elephants and stuff, and kind of

732
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 1: like correct them on how to you know, say the

733
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 1: elephant trips over. It's like, look, this is what you do.

734
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,240
Speaker 1: So it is. It is really amazing. I think also

735
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 1: that they seem to have I mean, it's not surprising

736
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 1: to me, given that they seem to have very sophisticated

737
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 1: abilities to understand, like remembering information that is important, like

738
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 1: remembering certain routes that they need to take, or like

739
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: if the weather is a certain way, they know to

740
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: take a different route in this case, being able to

741
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: identify a plant that is potentially helpful to induce labor

742
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: when you know they are having perhaps some issues or something.

743
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: I think it's it's I think it's very very plausible

744
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: that this is totally intentional. And I also think it's

745
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 1: plausible that this is something that they've learned and that

746
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,399
Speaker 1: this is something that's passed out as information. I mean,

747
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: of course, this is something that would need more observational

748
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 1: studies to kind of confirm. But yeah, I think that

749
00:49:55,719 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: elephants are sophisticated enough that I would I would suspect

750
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 1: that they would be able to pass on information about

751
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 1: like these medicinal plants too. Too. Younger elephants, oh for sure.

752
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 1: And they're so being a lab cooking. Yes, the young

753
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: just I don't know, they're so uh they're they. I

754
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 1: also just they's so the wrinkliness of elephants. It's like

755
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:27,959
Speaker 1: they're always wearing pants. I like their little eyes. There's

756
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 1: also they are have boobs like people, like they're one

757
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:34,839
Speaker 1: of the only they do. They're one of the only

758
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: animals out there where the females have boobs like human

759
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: women do. Most most animals, like their teats are smaller,

760
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: less boobuler. But yeah, elephants got big old honkers and

761
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about their trunks. It was shocking the

762
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,760
Speaker 1: FaceTime my STI I was like, wait, what, oh my gosh, okay,

763
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 1: and then I wanted to get her bra but I

764
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 1: was like, I bet support from down there is easier

765
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,800
Speaker 1: than us trying to balance these things on our chest

766
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 1: for walking around all day. They're like, no, that just

767
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 1: hangs low down there. It's fine, Yeah, nothing, do not

768
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 1: need support. I would like to see someone trying to

769
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 1: fit an elephant for our bra though, that would be yes, please, Yeah,

770
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 1: volunteers should be adorable. I feel like you would need

771
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 1: some structural engineers to figure out how like the tensile

772
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: strength for you, an assistance you'll need. There'll be trial

773
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,839
Speaker 1: and r you know, trial tests and when we put

774
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 1: on the sides and oh yes, but no bows because

775
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: we're over that. Well job. Well, before we go, we've

776
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 1: got to play a little game, and that game is

777
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 1: called the Mystery Animal Sound Game. Every week I play

778
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 1: a mystery animal sound and you the listener, and you

779
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: the guests, trying to guess who is squawking and it

780
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:10,240
Speaker 1: can be any animal in the world. So last week's

781
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 1: Mystery Animals sound hint was is there a frog in

782
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 1: your mouth? Or are you just happy to see me?

783
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: So here is the sound. No, that's a ad. Don't

784
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: worry about that. I was like, what animal was that?

785
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:34,720
Speaker 1: It's an ad for Fanta, which I get now. So Joel,

786
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,800
Speaker 1: can you guess who is making that sound. It sounded

787
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 1: like a ghost frog. Wow. I don't know what that is,

788
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 1: but that's what it sounded. I mean. This is sometimes

789
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 1: called a ghost bird of this Yes, this is the

790
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 1: common poe two. It is a bird related to frog

791
00:52:55,960 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 1: mouth birds and night jars. Congratulation to Auntie B, Grant

792
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: W and Joey P. Who all gives correctly. So like

793
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 1: frog mouth birds, they have wide frog like mouths. They

794
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 1: are found in tropical regions of Central and South America.

795
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: They hunt insects at night and during the day. They

796
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 1: like to pretend to be a part of a tree,

797
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 1: with their coloring and stiff posture resembling a jagged end

798
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 1: of a tree stump. So they'll kind of like like

799
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 1: sort of put their head in the air and flatten

800
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 1: their bodies out to make themselves look more convincingly like

801
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 1: part of a tree. It's it's very funny, all right,

802
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 1: But yes, unfortunately it is a bird, and it is

803
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 1: one that I think. It's on the creepier side of

804
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 1: birds to me. It's really cute though, like the huge

805
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 1: mouth is funny to me, But I could I could

806
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 1: also see an argument for it being horrifying. I'm not

807
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 1: here for the muppet birds, the giant mouths that could

808
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 1: swallow me whole. All right again, Once these things remember

809
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 1: that they're actually dinosaurs, it's over for us. I yeah,

810
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 1: but see, this is why I'm trying to be on

811
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 1: the side of the birds, so that when that time comes,

812
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 1: they'll use me as like their millet butler. Oh I

813
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: like that. I like that. That's a good plan. My

814
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:24,919
Speaker 1: long game is just they know that I respect them,

815
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 1: and so when they become our overlords, I'm gonna just

816
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: do what they say. I'm like, okay, mister bird, you

817
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 1: already know I'm afraid. Just tell me what to do

818
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 1: and I'll do it. I don't like it here, It's fine.

819
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: You want me to use this toothbrush to give you

820
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: little head scratches. I will do that anything you say,

821
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:50,880
Speaker 1: hopefully not my toothbrush. This bird punishment using your toothbrush

822
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:58,319
Speaker 1: to give them scratcheese. All right, now, onto you this

823
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: week's mystery animals. Sound the hint This is one peeved, pissed,

824
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: particularly provoked pond paddler. Oh did you hear that? I did?

825
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:21,919
Speaker 1: He's an angry fella. So Joel, who do you think

826
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 1: is making that sound. I am going to suggest that

827
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 1: is a vampire pig. Again. Not sure what that is,

828
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 1: but it sounds like a big between like an angry

829
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 1: Jacula and a struggling pig. Interesting vampire pig. That's my vote.

830
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:52,879
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. Um. Well, maybe next

831
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 1: week we will find out if this is indeed a

832
00:55:55,760 --> 00:56:00,359
Speaker 1: poor sign Dracula or something else. If you just think

833
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: you know who is making this sound, you can write

834
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 1: to me at Creature feature Pod at gmail dot com. Joel,

835
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on the show and

836
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 1: tolerating a few birds here and there. Where can people

837
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 1: find you maybe? Thank you so much for having me back.

838
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:18,239
Speaker 1: And every time I come I faced my fear of

839
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:23,320
Speaker 1: birds and I can less afraid. So I'm grateful for you.

840
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,879
Speaker 1: You guys can follow me all over the internet at

841
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Speaker 1: Joel Meek. That's Joe L E m O and I

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Speaker 1: que please do that. Joel is fantastic, And yeah, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for coming on. And thank you the

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Speaker 1: listener for you know, using your ears to listen to it.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate that, and I also appreciate whatever you leave

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Speaker 1: a rating or review. I read all the reviews and

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Speaker 1: they mean so much to me and I really really

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Speaker 1: do appreciate it when you take a little bit time

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Speaker 1: out of your date. Tell me what you think of

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Speaker 1: the podcasts. This is really wonderful and thank you to

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Speaker 1: the Space Cossacks for their super awesome song. Exo loom

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Speaker 1: Enough Creature features a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

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Speaker 1: like the one you just heard, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or Higgins, what where have you listen to

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Speaker 1: your favorite shows? See you next Wednesday.