Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance head Day.
Speaker 1: I'm joining with John White of Northwest spur Chasers. John
Speaker 1: served thirty five years in the military doing military aviation work.
Speaker 1: He's originally from the Northwest Hardwoods of Connecticut, where he
Speaker 1: started hunting at the young age of ten. He moved
Speaker 1: to Washington twenty eight years ago and started hunting turkey
Speaker 1: shortly thereafter, and he's never really looked back. He's had
Speaker 1: died in the Wool Mountain turkey hunter with a running
Speaker 1: gun style of chasing and setting up on gobbling birds
Speaker 1: and prefers. This one hundred to one over out of
Speaker 1: a blind or pattern turkeys. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: John, Hey, how's it going on, Jason, Good to see you.
Speaker 1: Good good. We're only about two months away from opening
Speaker 1: day here and it's getting close.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The countdown is rolling and everybody's comptable.
Speaker 1: How I mean, you're over there more than I am.
Speaker 1: How was the hatch last year? Everything looking good, numbers
Speaker 1: looking good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the hatch actually was pretty decent. Birds are actually
Speaker 2: strutting and moving up already amazingly because we just don't
Speaker 2: have much snow, so that's great.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, these these Mountain Meriams that we hunted together
Speaker 1: last year. They love to be at that snow line.
Speaker 1: They love to be at the top of the mountain
Speaker 1: if the weather and the food sources let them. So
Speaker 1: I imagine this year even more so than last year,
Speaker 1: we're going to be apply chasing birds.
Speaker 2: Oh I sure hope. So looking forward to let them
Speaker 2: spread out a little bit before everybody else shows up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, perfect, perfect. So we're gonna start today's episode like
Speaker 1: we do on all of our Cutting the Distance, We're
Speaker 1: gonna take some question and answers from you know, our
Speaker 1: our listeners, our users, Phelps game Calls customers, and if
Speaker 1: you want to submit any questions of your own, feel
Speaker 1: free to email us at CTD at Phelps game Calls
Speaker 1: dot com or send us a social media message and
Speaker 1: we'll do our best to get them in. These three questions.
Speaker 1: I just got done with the Pacific Northwest Sportsman show, John,
Speaker 1: and these were some of the most questions asked by
Speaker 1: either new turkey hunters or turkey hunters that started hunting
Speaker 1: and maybe don't have the experience. So this is where
Speaker 1: I kind of gathered these three questions from the day.
Speaker 1: In your opinion, what's the best time of the day
Speaker 1: to hunt turkeys and Gona. I'm gonna add my own
Speaker 1: little twist to this because I think there may be
Speaker 1: a best time of the day to hunt turkeys if
Speaker 1: you want to hear gobbles and get in action. And
Speaker 1: there may be a different answer for if you want
Speaker 1: to kill birds, but I'm gonna let you go ahead
Speaker 1: and take that and then we'll all add on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, it's definitely a best
Speaker 2: time of the day if you want to hear them.
Speaker 2: We all know, get out there early in the morning,
Speaker 2: you know, listen for them, and you know, so nine
Speaker 2: o'clock is fantastic. It's one of the best hours, i'd say,
Speaker 2: of the morning hours, just because birds have come down.
Speaker 2: Those that are hand up are going to get hand up,
Speaker 2: and then, depending on the time of season, obviously some
Speaker 2: are going to cut away and the times are going
Speaker 2: to get lonely and start talking again sometime after nine
Speaker 2: and ten o'clock and they'll start talking. I'm pretty heavy,
Speaker 2: but I'd have to add to that. At the same time,
Speaker 2: one of my favorite times would be two o'clocking on
Speaker 2: in the afternoon as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm you know, as I can remember, back
Speaker 1: as a new turkey hunter, it was all about that
Speaker 1: early morning hunt, you know, sitting under a treaty, hearing
Speaker 1: the roosted birds. And I loved everything about hearing the
Speaker 1: woods wake up, you know, hearing the hundred two hundred
Speaker 1: gobbles plus whatever, you know, just birds all over. But
Speaker 1: then I started to learn, you know, is all good
Speaker 1: hunters do, or people that should be reflecting. I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know what, it's real fun, but I don't kill
Speaker 1: near as many as many birds right then as I
Speaker 1: do later in the morning. And then it was kind
Speaker 1: of always the running joke is the old timers that
Speaker 1: have been turkey huting for a long time, they'll sleep in,
Speaker 1: They're going to make themselves a nice breakfast, be a
Speaker 1: little more rest, and then then we're all coming in
Speaker 1: because we're whipped and tired. They're going to go out
Speaker 1: and kill the birds that we've been hunting all morning,
Speaker 1: you know. And it's just it's just that natural biology.
Speaker 1: It's not saying that you can't kill a bird first
Speaker 1: in the morning. It happens all the time, especially if
Speaker 1: you've got you know, if you've got them past and
Speaker 1: to know where they're going to want to fly down
Speaker 1: which way they're going to want to feed out. But
Speaker 1: it's just the nature of turkeys. And especially as that
Speaker 1: season moves on and more and more of the turkeys
Speaker 1: are nesting or going to lay eggs in the nests,
Speaker 1: are potentially even sitting on the nest full time. At
Speaker 1: that point, those toms become more and more lonely. And
Speaker 1: it's just it's by nature, those toms are more susceptible
Speaker 1: and easier to kill.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, without a doubt. I mean it's like
Speaker 2: you said, you could dissect that question. This month or
Speaker 2: this week would be this thing, next week could be
Speaker 2: a different one, and then the other Later in the season,
Speaker 2: you'll change those times again, it just depends on what
Speaker 2: cycle they're in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like you know, you mentioned the two o'clock
Speaker 1: I don't remember. We mean, I can remember me and
Speaker 1: you driving around on my truck looking at the temperature gage.
Speaker 1: I think it was like in the low nineties, two
Speaker 1: thirty three o'clock. We were doing short little hikes and
Speaker 1: we're like, man, we're just it's hot, like we you know,
Speaker 1: you kind of feel your percentage you're really low. We
Speaker 1: stop at one spot, probably our fiftieth spot we stopped
Speaker 1: to locate get a bird to hammer, and it was
Speaker 1: one of the cooler hunts we had that, you know,
Speaker 1: And it was a two point thirty you know, three
Speaker 1: o'clock calling. Yeah, it took a long time. The birds
Speaker 1: weren't super active. They came in a little more cautious.
Speaker 1: But yeah, those birds you know, you say two o'clock,
Speaker 1: we talk about nine o'clock. I like anywhere that's not
Speaker 1: like within that roosting time where the birds become more
Speaker 1: talkative early morning. Like anything that gobbles in that mid
Speaker 1: day seems like you have a pretty good chance of
Speaker 1: capitalizing or having a good chance at calling that bird
Speaker 1: in if he's very active middle of the day. Anytime
Speaker 1: from like you said, ten or nine, ten o'clock to
Speaker 1: two three o'clock is going to be a good hunt
Speaker 1: if you can get them to talk.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. On top of that, you know, getting out
Speaker 2: in the morning, we all want to hear them gobble,
Speaker 2: and it gives you a chance to listen to different
Speaker 2: voices and you know, maybe dial in on a voice
Speaker 2: you really want to focus on. So that's really important too.
Speaker 2: And then understand they're hearing you when you're calling in
Speaker 2: the morning. A lot of people make that mistake that
Speaker 2: you know, he walked away, he's not coming back. Well
Speaker 2: give him time, he is coming back. You know. Patience
Speaker 2: skills more birds sometimes than anything else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and doctor I've mentioned this study multiple times, doctor
Speaker 1: Mike Chamberlain out of the University of Georgia, while Turkey
Speaker 1: Lab references it and they've they've had birds monitored where
Speaker 1: if if that turkey, when he eventually loses his hands,
Speaker 1: they will typically come back by that spot three to
Speaker 1: four hours later. It might be a long time, but
Speaker 1: that turkey almost with very very pinpoint accuracy, knew where
Speaker 1: that hen was calling from.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: You and they'll come.
Speaker 2: Back, yeah, Yeah, they don't forget.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they'll eventually come check on you once they're their
Speaker 1: their live hens leave, So keep that in mind. Like
Speaker 1: patience is a virtue, I don't have a whole lot
Speaker 1: of it, you know, similar to John may have more
Speaker 1: patients than me. But I like the run and gun.
Speaker 1: I like to be on an active bird and not
Speaker 1: like slow play it. But it can be effective.
Speaker 2: Oh heck yeah. I mean we walk away from so
Speaker 2: many birds all the time. For the same reason myself,
Speaker 2: I want to run a gun. I want to play,
Speaker 2: I want to hear the voice. Yeah, it's just like
Speaker 2: you want to sit still and wait for an elk
Speaker 2: to come by, and you want to chase bugles.
Speaker 1: I mean you know I want to chase bugles. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: I can I sit in a tree stand. I could
Speaker 1: sit in the tree stand until I heard the first bugle. No,
Speaker 1: I figure out how quick I can get down on
Speaker 1: the ground and go chasing around.
Speaker 2: So exactly.
Speaker 1: Nope, Yeah, that was one of the things we heard that.
Speaker 1: Of course, being at a trade show, that's second most
Speaker 1: or the probably the most asked question. I'm new to
Speaker 1: turkey hunting or I'm I'm getting into it. I'm not
Speaker 1: a real good caller. What turkey call should I get
Speaker 1: for hunting? In your opinion? Like where should you start?
Speaker 1: What should you have in your kit? And then like
Speaker 1: how do you progress to become a better turkey caller?
Speaker 1: And what does that look like?
Speaker 2: I think straight off the bat, for anyone brand new
Speaker 2: starting out, you can't really beat a box call. I
Speaker 2: mean it's not super hard to make the right sounds. Obviously,
Speaker 2: spend time listening to real birds and try to mimic
Speaker 2: and I try to learn the language as much as
Speaker 2: you can. But you know, a box call, as you
Speaker 2: well know too, they're fantastic, they work great, and I've
Speaker 2: had birds coming down the line that I swore. I'm like,
Speaker 2: well that's another turkey hunter, you know, with a box call,
Speaker 2: and around the corner comes a hand and it happens
Speaker 2: every once in a while, like yeah, man, they sounded right.
Speaker 1: Yeah last year on the hunt. You know, we're proud
Speaker 1: mouth callers. I think anybody that's hunted for a long time,
Speaker 1: like always always wants to go to mouth call. But
Speaker 1: we got on a few birds last year where I
Speaker 1: don't remember if it was yours or size bird it was.
Speaker 1: We tried to, like I always call it, like switch
Speaker 1: them to a mouth call, Like we got them fired
Speaker 1: up on the box, right, and then we wanted to
Speaker 1: switch them to the mouth caall so we can be
Speaker 1: hands free. And we kind of looked at each other
Speaker 1: and we're like, we're gonna keep running the box like
Speaker 1: they were just hooked on that. And then my bird
Speaker 1: the long calling where me and you said had to
Speaker 1: run back to town. It was me and you. I
Speaker 1: can remember you had your bigger camera and I would
Speaker 1: like pick up my box just to make sure they
Speaker 1: were still there, but we could never really get them
Speaker 1: to gobble to a diaphragm. It's like they just like
Speaker 1: the sound of that box. And you know, pot calls
Speaker 1: are considered easy to run too, but you watch people
Speaker 1: at these shows pick up a pot call and if
Speaker 1: they don't know how to angle the striker with allabit
Speaker 1: a little without a little bit of training, they struggle.
Speaker 1: But everybody can pick that box up make a sound.
Speaker 1: And you know pot calls are easy. There's you know,
Speaker 1: we don't make them, but they are pushpin type calls
Speaker 1: that are very, very easy. And then I always feel
Speaker 1: unless you've tried and practice, And when I say tried
Speaker 1: and practice, like you're not just saying you had to
Speaker 1: call in your mouth for fifteen minutes and give up.
Speaker 1: But if you've put in time and tried to everybody
Speaker 1: should try to run a diaphragm and learn it and
Speaker 1: makes you know, hands free, you can you know, make
Speaker 1: all the sounds with it. We're like on a box call,
Speaker 1: you're kind of limited to yelps. You can purr, you
Speaker 1: can cluck, but you're not gonna make like bubble clucks
Speaker 1: and you're not going to be you know, do do
Speaker 1: certain things where you can on a diaphragm. The same
Speaker 1: with the pot call. There's just certain sounds that they
Speaker 1: don't allow you to make where a full range of
Speaker 1: sounds on a diaphragm. So and it's a lot of practice.
Speaker 1: Like you know, you didn't get to be as good
Speaker 1: as calor as you did by putting the thing in
Speaker 1: for five minutes, and that's how good you were or me.
Speaker 1: It takes a lot of time, a lot of practice,
Speaker 1: and so give yourself ample time prior to season. Pick
Speaker 1: up some diaphragms, you know, and and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: ultimately if you if those don't work, there's always a
Speaker 1: chance to buy a box or a pot and still
Speaker 1: be able to make turkey sounds and effective turkey sounds
Speaker 1: out in the wood now. And we all know that
Speaker 1: does it does limit your you know, movement, It doesn't
Speaker 1: limit your you know, eliminate some ability to be hands free.
Speaker 1: You know, for those of you this may be a
Speaker 1: question that's new for turkey hunters, Like until you realize
Speaker 1: what movement you can get away with, you may you know,
Speaker 1: with having a box call on your hand, you may
Speaker 1: be very surprised that your your first few birds don't
Speaker 1: come in, And it's because they will pick up any
Speaker 1: sudden movement. And I mean that's one of those other
Speaker 1: things like we don't probably talk enough about, is until
Speaker 1: you've been in enough call ins and enough situations where
Speaker 1: you realize like how slow and subtle and what you're
Speaker 1: allowed to get away with. I think people underestimate a
Speaker 1: turkey's ability to like, you know, it's that turkey sided
Speaker 1: you know, eighty yards. You don't like, I really don't
Speaker 1: know why he left or didn't commit, and you're like, well,
Speaker 1: did you move anywhere? Like you might not even question
Speaker 1: yourself that you had moved, but it may be some movement,
Speaker 1: you know, along along the way.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, without a doubt. I mean, those are really
Speaker 2: good examples. Jason too. I'm talking about distance and a
Speaker 2: bird's ability to peg.
Speaker 1: You.
Speaker 2: I learned early, early in the in the years when
Speaker 2: I tried scouting birds at seven hundred yards and the
Speaker 2: whole group would stop and just stare at me, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, that's amazing. They are actually seeing me cutting
Speaker 2: through branches at seven hundred yards. I was totally not
Speaker 2: moving much. So it doesn't take much yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And we had a couple setups last year. I
Speaker 1: remember the one that came down on like the horseshoe
Speaker 1: or Saia was hunting, like, you know, we he was coming.
Speaker 1: We didn't know, like maybe we were in a We
Speaker 1: had that weird set up in a green bank, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: was there any little bit of movement? There was there?
Speaker 1: You know, So you question yourself and and I always
Speaker 1: think like, yeah, it could be the setups wrong, or
Speaker 1: we didn't want the bird didn't want to leave his
Speaker 1: hand to go there. But a lot of times if
Speaker 1: you get real critical and look back, like maybe we moved,
Speaker 1: or maybe we didn't look right, or maybe we weren't
Speaker 1: you know, tucked in or hidden or concealed enough. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But so back to back to what call should use
Speaker 1: for turkey hunting, I would say number one, not to
Speaker 1: answer a specific type of call, but whatever your most
Speaker 1: confidence in, you know, whatever you got the most confidence in,
Speaker 1: whatever you feel like making out there, you know, be
Speaker 1: willing to use it. Yeah me pers me personally. We
Speaker 1: we can talk about all these fancy sounds, you know, yelps, klucks, purs.
Speaker 1: I would say, you always want to have as many
Speaker 1: tools in the toolbox as possible. But if you if
Speaker 1: I had to go out with just one call, like go, go,
Speaker 1: be able to make your good seven to nine note,
Speaker 1: YELP is going to do the majority of what you need.
Speaker 1: But you know, we but then we will talk about
Speaker 1: last year's and we'll talk about each situation where we
Speaker 1: had to cut at this bird and we had to
Speaker 1: you know, get this one fired up. And so that's
Speaker 1: where I think, Yeah, you can hunt pretty effectively, but
Speaker 1: the more you can do, the better off you're gonna be.
Speaker 2: For sure, oh, without a doubt. And it, like you said,
Speaker 2: we're talking about the box call is hard to beat
Speaker 2: for a beginner. But yeah, you want to definitely start
Speaker 2: moving into that mouth call and get your reads figured
Speaker 2: out definitely. What's nice about Philips is they have different
Speaker 2: size diaphragms, you know, their frames are different sizes, and
Speaker 2: you get one that fits right. And that takes time
Speaker 2: to figure all that out, but yeah you can. I
Speaker 2: mean you can sit there and cup over it and
Speaker 2: you can make the sound throw in one direction the
Speaker 2: other direction. You've been able to create amazing realism. And
Speaker 2: that's the difference over time. You want to move there.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, so the the third question has a little
Speaker 1: more to do with locating turkeys. You know, when we
Speaker 1: hear this every year, you've already hinted on it in
Speaker 1: the early question, and so it is, you know, these
Speaker 1: flocks I'm gonna I'm gonna go all the way back,
Speaker 1: you know, these winter flocks, especially merriams, and you know
Speaker 1: we're hunting kind of a hybrid mariams rios. I think
Speaker 1: they're more considered merriams. But these birds will will and
Speaker 1: the winter congregate and be in flocks of hundreds and
Speaker 1: hundreds of birds, right, and then as spring comes along,
Speaker 1: as you're saying, they're already strutting, they will start the
Speaker 1: pair down into smaller flocks. And then that smaller flock
Speaker 1: may go up a certain valley, and then they'll pare
Speaker 1: down to ten groups of ten, you know, and then
Speaker 1: that group may and so you get this dispersion, and
Speaker 1: you hear a lot of guys new hunters, or even
Speaker 1: you know, people that are new to an area, like
Speaker 1: I located a whole bunch in February and I can't
Speaker 1: find them in the spring, or there are a lot
Speaker 1: smaller groups. How do people in your opinion, how should
Speaker 1: people scout, and then how should people like translate that
Speaker 1: to the spring opener or the early May season.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, scouting is a double edged sword. For
Speaker 2: one thing, you definitely want to hear him from a
Speaker 2: distance early in the morning. He's probably the safest way
Speaker 2: to scout. But if you start moving in physical and
Speaker 2: doing a lot of moving around and the birds start
Speaker 2: noticing you, they pick up really fast on the fact that, okay, pressure,
Speaker 2: things are going to change, they're going to disperse even
Speaker 2: more so. So really, if I'm going to scout a
Speaker 2: new area at all, it's going to be with my
Speaker 2: ears more than anything else. And buyos from a large distance.
Speaker 2: But be really careful. If you really have an area
Speaker 2: you know you want to hunt, turkeys are going to
Speaker 2: be there, especially you know, we're blessed here in Washington
Speaker 2: and you know Idaho as well, Montana some sorts. But uh,
Speaker 2: there's birds. If you've got public land, if you're on it,
Speaker 2: you're going to find birds. So you know, use your
Speaker 2: ears more so than letting them see you constantly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now let's let's say we scouted, but finding turkeys,
Speaker 1: you know, during hunting season, you're in an area, what's
Speaker 1: what's your what's your go to? I know we we
Speaker 1: had a little debate because I'm a guy and I
Speaker 1: was testing a new call, right, so I've got this
Speaker 1: this other business case why I want to blow a
Speaker 1: woodpecker call or this or that? What's your go to
Speaker 1: when you're just locating turkey? You know during season? Like
Speaker 1: is this a good area? Should I keep running and gun?
Speaker 1: And should I keep running this ridge?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: What's your go to to locate birds during season? To
Speaker 1: get the hunt started?
Speaker 2: Well, my go to is to get up high originally
Speaker 2: and listen earlier in the morning. If I can get
Speaker 2: up on a good elevation point, and if I'm going
Speaker 2: to make a call, if it's early in the morning,
Speaker 2: you know, you can blow a crow call. You can
Speaker 2: make just about any loud noise there is. You can
Speaker 2: use a coyote call. Respectfully, you don't want to be
Speaker 2: too close doing that because you can set them on
Speaker 2: edge a little bit too. But evenings are great for
Speaker 2: coyote calls. They'll gobble to it. Mornings you had that
Speaker 2: woodpecker call. It was fantastic. So I mean just about
Speaker 2: any loud noise that you can make that's reasonable and
Speaker 2: makes sense in the woods they're going to gobble at it.
Speaker 2: So that's that's one of the best ways. But I
Speaker 2: like to start up high.
Speaker 1: Yep, start high. And then you were more of a you.
Speaker 1: You tend to go to your just turkey calls for locating,
Speaker 1: right you. You We did use some locators throughout, but
Speaker 1: you tend to you know, loud alps, loud, you know,
Speaker 1: some cutting, and then that was typically your go to
Speaker 1: wire in hunt mode. Might as well be the real
Speaker 1: thing and get that turkey to gobble at you, you know,
Speaker 1: oh y, turkey calling more so than locator calls.
Speaker 2: A lot of people say, hey, man, you call kind
Speaker 2: of a little too much, and I'm like, yeah, I've
Speaker 2: heard that before, and i know some other ELK callers
Speaker 2: have heard that before too, right, Yeah, but yeah, my
Speaker 2: favorite honestly, because I have followed hens that are looking
Speaker 2: for a tom. I followed one hen many years back,
Speaker 2: and she literally went over three different mountain ranges. She
Speaker 2: never stopped talking. I mean literally, I'm like, is this
Speaker 2: girl ever going to take a breath? And she was
Speaker 2: looking for a tom. So I've learned from the real birds.
Speaker 2: You can call a lot, you can call an awful
Speaker 2: lot and become very realistic and they're going to answer
Speaker 2: if they're there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't like to. I mean, we have
Speaker 1: did some some podcasts with some biologists and we talk
Speaker 1: about difference in subspecies. I do want to know that.
Speaker 1: Like when I'm in Easterns, back in can this not
Speaker 1: as much calling. Where we're out here in the mountains
Speaker 1: merriam or Rio's chasing, I tend to call a whole
Speaker 1: lot more and they're more responsive to call. So it's
Speaker 1: you know, keep that in mind. We got listeners all over,
Speaker 1: so we may not be talking you know, your normal
Speaker 1: you know what we'd call like your ag edge, hardwood
Speaker 1: edge type turkey hunting. This is more of our our
Speaker 1: mountain hunting where you can get away with a lot
Speaker 1: more calling and just due to the terrain and vegetation,
Speaker 1: we might walk one hundred to two hundred yards and
Speaker 1: this new bird could hear us where you know, when
Speaker 1: you're in Kansas or you know, Tennessee or where miss it,
Speaker 1: wherever you might be those you know, flat as a pancake,
Speaker 1: you can you know that turkey you can hear from
Speaker 1: a long way, So maybe you're not. You don't just
Speaker 1: have to call that much to get responses.
Speaker 2: No, that's a really good point. Yeah, for the most part,
Speaker 2: when I'm talking, I'm talking about our birds here. For
Speaker 2: the most if we're going to talk about Easterns, the
Speaker 2: whole game is going to change completely.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep. Yeah. So thanks a lot, John for helping
Speaker 1: answer some of those questions. Those are the three most
Speaker 1: asked questions we had here at the Pacific Northwest Sportsman
Speaker 1: Show in Portland last week. Once again, you have questions
Speaker 1: for me and my guests, feel free to email them
Speaker 1: to us at CTD at phelpsgame Calls dot com or
Speaker 1: send us a social message and we'll do our best
Speaker 1: to get it on here. Now we're gonna kind of
Speaker 1: jump into our discussion, John, you know, we're getting excited.
Speaker 1: Me and you were gonna try to coordinate a hunt.
Speaker 1: We're gonna be what may tenth to fifteenth, So I'm
Speaker 1: without giving without giving away all of our secrets. I
Speaker 1: really love that time of year. You know, the hunting
Speaker 1: is typically pretty good. The birds tend to do what
Speaker 1: you want them to do, so I'm excited about that.
Speaker 1: But uh, yeah, everybody hates when we compare elk hunting
Speaker 1: the turkey hunting. But I challenge somebody that hunts them
Speaker 1: the way we do out here and Washington, Idaho, you know,
Speaker 1: even Eastern Oregon to find, aside from the physical animal
Speaker 1: we shoot at the end and the sound, that they
Speaker 1: make very very similar strategies, very very similar terrain and country,
Speaker 1: me and you and side and people might this might
Speaker 1: add the or confirm that we're crazy. I think the
Speaker 1: one day when so I was hunting, we did what
Speaker 1: sixteen miles the one day?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean that's not uncommon for me, that's
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so, I mean there's there's a lot of similarities.
Speaker 1: And I know people hate to you know, out West.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a pride thing or all.
Speaker 1: Turkey hunting isn't the same as outcome. I get very
Speaker 1: very similar from any way that I've did it, you know,
Speaker 1: so very exciting.
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean some people, yeah, you're you're absolutely right,
Speaker 2: But it just comes down to how do you like
Speaker 2: the hunt turkeys. Sure you can go sit on a
Speaker 2: field somewhere at a farm's place and you know, set
Speaker 2: yourself up in a blind, but I mean that's not
Speaker 2: what we're looking for personally. On top of that every
Speaker 2: turkey hunt an opportunity to scott for elk as well,
Speaker 2: and they tend to be in the same places just
Speaker 2: as difficult to get into. So that's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, both turkeys and elk this time of year,
Speaker 1: you know that April May time frame, they're falling the
Speaker 1: snow up, eating that newest, freshest growth, and they seem
Speaker 1: to be in the same spot. So yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: I'm going to start this one a little different for you, John.
Speaker 1: We're going to do kind of a rapid fire twenty
Speaker 1: questions here, just your opinion. If you had to pick
Speaker 1: box call, slate, collar, diaphragms, you can only take one.
Speaker 2: I'm going to take a diaphragm every time.
Speaker 1: Diaphragm, and then we probably know your reasons, but explain
Speaker 1: why you're picking diaphragms on this one.
Speaker 2: For me personally, I can make every sound that I
Speaker 2: need to make with a diaphragm, whether it's making it
Speaker 2: like a coyote. If I want to play like all
Speaker 2: the kinds of animals, just to do a locator call,
Speaker 2: I can do that on a diaphragm. I can sound
Speaker 2: like a young bird, like an old bird, and I
Speaker 2: can change the direction in distance and make myself sound
Speaker 2: like I'm in one place compared to another. And they're
Speaker 2: easy to pack. It doesn't take much for space they either,
Speaker 2: So it's just really convenient with lots of practice.
Speaker 1: Gotcha, Okay, decoys are no decoys on You don't know
Speaker 1: if you're going two miles or twenty miles, you're taking
Speaker 1: decoys or you're leaving them in your truck.
Speaker 2: For me, personally, I always have a decoy, and I
Speaker 2: know a lot of people don't think that's even right,
Speaker 2: but then again, they're not filming all the time either,
Speaker 2: and I enjoy filming, so a decoy just gives me
Speaker 2: more bird time on film, especially if I can get
Speaker 2: them to come in and strut around it and hang out.
Speaker 2: I'll stay there as long as I can before pulling
Speaker 2: the trigger.
Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah, we actually I just got done with the podcast,
Speaker 1: and I know, you know you're you're teamed up with
Speaker 1: a different company, but we you know, one of the
Speaker 1: meat Eater brands is Dave Smith Decoys, and just just
Speaker 1: got done with a podcast on meat Eater with Dave
Speaker 1: and and they're almost to the point where they've got
Speaker 1: some people within that company that don't like using the calls.
Speaker 1: They want to use the decoys almost, you know, they do,
Speaker 1: they do team them up with calls, but like sometimes
Speaker 1: they're like just decoying. So like take the calls away.
Speaker 1: You got the bird's pattern, let's set this out and
Speaker 1: see if we can get this bird to do nothing
Speaker 1: but decoy and kind of kind of you know, for me,
Speaker 1: I'm like, we got to use calls and tricky, but
Speaker 1: there are people that you know, just there are different
Speaker 1: ways to do it right. And we always pack decoys
Speaker 1: now whether I get that, you know, they're running and
Speaker 1: gunning set up a lot of times you're like, well
Speaker 1: we were. It's it's you can't do it on this setup.
Speaker 1: But there are times where you know, a lot of
Speaker 1: our birds we end up on on a logging road
Speaker 1: or somehow that seems to be our setup, and and
Speaker 1: you can get them, you know, putt on the outside
Speaker 1: corner so the bird can see it, it can't see
Speaker 1: your location. And there are times where the decoys really
Speaker 1: do help and and add to the situation for sure.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. And sometimes the negatives are when people don't
Speaker 2: really set them up properly, or they had the decoy
Speaker 2: facing directly at where the tom is coming from. And
Speaker 2: a lot of times will come around the corner and
Speaker 2: see a hend and staring them down and he'll back off. So,
Speaker 2: you know, try to face the decoy slightly away on
Speaker 2: a forty five degree angle. Let them know it's just
Speaker 2: a missive hand and she's just looking for action.
Speaker 1: Yep. I know your answer this one, but I'm asking
Speaker 1: it anyways. Ground blind or natural setup.
Speaker 2: Run a gun definitely no ground blind, don't need extra
Speaker 2: stuff to carry. But then again, I'm not in Kansas
Speaker 2: or some other place too, So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you if you had some private ground, you know,
Speaker 1: this might be for some of our listeners. They're not
Speaker 1: doing it the way we and we hunt for a
Speaker 1: specific reason. I do want to preface this whole thing.
Speaker 1: Like me and John are out there, we hunt a
Speaker 1: certain way where we're wanting to work the birds without
Speaker 1: being set up or necessarily patterning them. So we're not
Speaker 1: saying this this isn't effective or won't work. But if
Speaker 1: you had birds on private that were really patternable, and
Speaker 1: maybe it was a little more open ad country where
Speaker 1: you know, these these birds don't like to be tight
Speaker 1: in the timber. You know, Southwest Oregon, these birds they
Speaker 1: fly down, and they're out in the open for ninety
Speaker 1: nine percent of the day. Ground blinds might be your
Speaker 1: best solution, especially if you've got good patterns on them.
Speaker 1: So we're not saying it doesn't work, but a lot
Speaker 1: of times these birds that we find, we literally really
Speaker 1: had no idea they were there. We had a good
Speaker 1: idea there should be birds around, but we don't know
Speaker 1: which pocket, and we're locating birds that we have no idea,
Speaker 1: and we're just hunting them for the first time in
Speaker 1: that moment, right, So we have no idea about these birds.
Speaker 1: And so you know, we're talking into natural training. I
Speaker 1: like that. I like, you know, the idea that we're
Speaker 1: playing them kind of on their turf. We're having to
Speaker 1: adapt and try to make it work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean definitely, if you're going to be in
Speaker 2: an open field or maybe at a farmer's place or
Speaker 2: even property that someone's just giving you access to, even
Speaker 2: in the yard, I mean, yeah, they're going to be
Speaker 2: in the open areas and obviously set up a blind,
Speaker 2: get in there in the dark, hang out, let them
Speaker 2: do their thing.
Speaker 1: Yep. If you if you had to declare on your
Speaker 1: turkey tag, you could hunt from five to nine or
Speaker 1: nine to one o'clock. What are you picking?
Speaker 2: Five to nine or nine till one o'clock? I go
Speaker 2: five to nine for sure. I want to hear them,
Speaker 2: and then I'll get in as tight as I can
Speaker 2: and be the first hen on the ground at the roost.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're going early, even though we've talked, you
Speaker 1: can have success in both places. You're out there. You
Speaker 1: want to hear the gobbleys, want to be in the
Speaker 1: action and make that work. That's a tough one because
Speaker 1: I mean we've killed birds and you know, at both times.
Speaker 1: But I agree. I'm a guy that likes the action.
Speaker 1: I like to hear all the gods, like to know
Speaker 1: where all the birds, how many birds are out there,
Speaker 1: And there's just something about that fly down and birds
Speaker 1: dispersing and doing their thing that I love to be
Speaker 1: a part of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, I mean, but if you're looking for
Speaker 2: just success rate, then another timeframe is probably better for
Speaker 2: success rate. But if you just want to suffer and
Speaker 2: really enjoy the calls morning early.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to hunt alone or you can hunt
Speaker 1: with a buddy.
Speaker 2: Oh, I like them both equally. Fifty to fifty. I mean,
Speaker 2: I love doing solo hunts. I love filming solo hunts.
Speaker 2: But then I really love the camaraderie and everything that
Speaker 2: comes with that, and that's just another hole epic opportunity.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I'm in the same boat. Yeah, I've probably
Speaker 1: hunted more turkeys with buddies and you and maybe set
Speaker 1: a collar back just a little bit. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: think the hunting alone, especially when I did somewhere around
Speaker 1: here back when you know we have easterns here in
Speaker 1: western Washington, we'd go out. Yeah, I love just like
Speaker 1: working a bird on my own or firing a bird
Speaker 1: up on my own. You know, it's like yeah. But then,
Speaker 1: but like you said, hunt with buddies. I had a
Speaker 1: blast last year with you inside. So I like, like
Speaker 1: you said, it doesn't really matter. As long as I'm
Speaker 1: turkey hunting, I'm gonna be good. Exactly this this question,
Speaker 1: I know your answer, running and gunning or sitting and waiting.
Speaker 2: Running and gunning without a doubt. I mean, it's it's
Speaker 2: all about the action. It's about the fun, excitement, the exercise,
Speaker 2: just being out there and moving through the mountains and
Speaker 2: seeing more terrain.
Speaker 1: Now with that said, let's let's dive into sitting and
Speaker 1: waiting a little bit more during a call, and like,
Speaker 1: let's say you've running gun to a point, how long
Speaker 1: are you willing to sit and wait as long as
Speaker 1: the bird's responding and you feel like you're working him?
Speaker 1: Or is there a point within a call and you're like,
Speaker 1: we gotta get up and get a little closer, like
Speaker 1: he's been stuck for too long or he's unwilling to
Speaker 1: get closer. Like how do you make that determination where
Speaker 1: you're maybe I don't want to say too aggressive, but
Speaker 1: you know you're being aggressive versus you're willing to sit
Speaker 1: and wait during part of a setup.
Speaker 2: Well, for me, I mean one of the reasons I
Speaker 2: like being out there early is to hear how many
Speaker 2: voices there are in a certain area. And just because
Speaker 2: they went quiet doesn't mean they left. I mean that's
Speaker 2: something you learned. So then it becomes time to just
Speaker 2: sit down and shut up and wait for that next
Speaker 2: gobble to kick off on his own, because that's going
Speaker 2: to happen eventually. At some point, Tom's going to get
Speaker 2: alone or he's going to lose his girl. And you're
Speaker 2: there knowing that they were there and they still are
Speaker 2: and you just got to believe it. Have confidence. Wait
Speaker 2: for that gobble, it's coming. It might be ten o'clock, gotcha.
Speaker 1: Traditional camos or gilly.
Speaker 2: Suits, traditional camos, Turkey traditional camos. All the Usterns like
Speaker 2: to wear the elk stuff, which is fantastic and works good.
Speaker 2: I just I love the more greens. You know, you
Speaker 2: pick your shuit yep, yep.
Speaker 1: So turkey vest or like a chess pack. How are
Speaker 1: you organizing your stuff and what do you need to take?
Speaker 2: Well, because I'm filming, the Turkey vest is better because
Speaker 2: I'm loading it up with gear, extra batteries, extra this,
Speaker 2: And for me, I just enjoy the turkey vest. It's
Speaker 2: convenient for me. For a lot of people who running gun.
Speaker 2: If you're not filming, you're not hauling a lot of stuff,
Speaker 2: then a chess pack is fantastic.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and I you know, I ran that new
Speaker 1: FHF gear. You got to see it a little bit.
Speaker 1: We had one of the prototops last year. It's kind
Speaker 1: of a hybrid. It's got you know, it's basically a belt,
Speaker 1: a tactical belt where we could keep our box and
Speaker 1: our pots. You couple that with a chest rig that
Speaker 1: kind of holds it all together. You got the foldable seat.
Speaker 1: It worked really well, especially out west. Now you know,
Speaker 1: back East, I've I don't want to call it lazy.
Speaker 1: I've even kind of got Steve and you know, hooked
Speaker 1: on this idea when you're hunting Kansas and and that
Speaker 1: you're you know, we're using the electric buggies or we're
Speaker 1: using side by sides to get kind of there. I
Speaker 1: love a low seat and then just you know, kind
Speaker 1: of keep my my my calls in the chest pack.
Speaker 1: I don't need a bunch, but I love having like
Speaker 1: those very low to the ground, you know, recliner chairs,
Speaker 1: because with the Easterns it seems like I have to
Speaker 1: be a whole lot more patient. I'm gonna sit underneath
Speaker 1: my tree for a whole lot longer, and the last
Speaker 1: thing I want to do is my you know, butt
Speaker 1: cheet going numb or falling asleep, and then you're rocking
Speaker 1: and you're rotating while you're trying to you know. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I love that new lightweight system. But yeah, with you
Speaker 1: being self contained or filming yourself, I could see where
Speaker 1: the vest and additional pockets and additional space to throw
Speaker 1: your decoys and stuff really really starts to pay off.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, definitely. And yeah, like you said, I mean
Speaker 2: even your bird with last calling. We were sitting a
Speaker 2: long time, I think I remember you and not able
Speaker 2: to almost get up.
Speaker 1: Oh my, both of my feet had fell asleep. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so after I shot the bird, it was like
Speaker 1: three or four minutes before you weren't going to like
Speaker 1: break your ankle trying to trying to walk. So yeah,
Speaker 1: we were. We were there for a long long time.
Speaker 1: And that's where my stubbornness comes in because I was
Speaker 1: more than well to kill that bird and wake my
Speaker 1: feet up and move around. So we were, we were.
Speaker 1: We were locked in for the long haul there.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's all film coming out in another couple
Speaker 2: of weeks.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, we're getting We're getting real close. So I'm
Speaker 1: excited to see how that all comes together. Yeah, if
Speaker 1: if you, if you had your own private land, I
Speaker 1: know we do a lot of public. Are you gonna
Speaker 1: hunt public or private?
Speaker 2: I prefer public personally. I mean I have access to
Speaker 2: a lot of private, but I honestly rarely go there.
Speaker 2: What I do is I say it for maybe kids
Speaker 2: or other people that need help, or older folks as well,
Speaker 2: that we take out and mentor. But for me personally,
Speaker 2: I'll just go to public because there's so many birds.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so dang good. Yeah, I know. Last you know,
Speaker 1: if you follow along your adventures with Northwest Purchasers, you know,
Speaker 1: you you you utilize that private at certain times or
Speaker 1: people's first birds or kids, like you said, and it
Speaker 1: definitely has it's use. And I'm I'm neither. I don't.
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people, Oh it was a
Speaker 1: private land bird, or it was a private land elk
Speaker 1: or a private land. I don't care. Like hunting is
Speaker 1: hunting to me, but I agree with you. I like,
Speaker 1: I like at this point to challenge myself on public
Speaker 1: land or land that everybody has to hunt, and it's
Speaker 1: just it adds a little bit of a level of difficulty.
Speaker 1: Not that I'm out there trying to find the toughest
Speaker 1: to kill bird, but it's just it's not not quite
Speaker 1: as easy as private land. And yeah, you once again,
Speaker 1: it goes back, do we get done them exactly where
Speaker 1: they are? We're not like waiting here for three hours
Speaker 1: because eventually they're gonna come through this pinch point in
Speaker 1: the field. You know, You're like, I'm just wherever I
Speaker 1: found the bird never been here before. It's all brand
Speaker 1: new to me, and I love that. Like you know,
Speaker 1: it's you know, there's always a wild card. You can't
Speaker 1: plan for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just adds a whole different level of stress
Speaker 2: and adventure to it, for sure. And then sometimes just
Speaker 2: because you got private property doesn't mean it's always going
Speaker 2: to be easy either, because a lot of people, if
Speaker 2: they want you, they're killing turkeys. They want everybody else
Speaker 2: they're killing turkeys too, so you might find it's worse.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep for sure. Shotgun or bow, Oh, I love
Speaker 1: them both.
Speaker 2: I used to do archery turkey a lot in earlier times.
Speaker 2: I just got tired of the mess, to be honest.
Speaker 2: And the shotgun is this easier again to pack along
Speaker 2: for filming?
Speaker 1: Yep. And one thing that doesn't get talked about enough.
Speaker 1: We're hunting these in mountainous terrain, right and andy, if
Speaker 1: you may, even if you make a great shot on
Speaker 1: a tricky yeah, you can, you know, without getting too detailed,
Speaker 1: you can decapitated. You know, you can do some things.
Speaker 1: But if you make a perfect turkey, a shot on
Speaker 1: a turkey, there's nothing saying that thing doesn't pitch off
Speaker 1: that mountain and end up flying over a group of
Speaker 1: trees before it decides it's going to die or expires
Speaker 1: or you know, they leave bad blood trails. And so
Speaker 1: why I I love the challenge of bow hunting. I'm like,
Speaker 1: there's something about not losing a bird that I feel
Speaker 1: like I owe them a little bit in a certain
Speaker 1: terrain and you know where sometimes private land, you know
Speaker 1: it's flat ground, so the turkey just kind of runs
Speaker 1: off or you can, you know, keep track of them
Speaker 1: wearing these mountains. These birds get spooked or get shot,
Speaker 1: they might pitch off of a mountain and you may
Speaker 1: never find the thing. And that's not what I'm out
Speaker 1: there for either.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, definitely. And it is definitely a much smaller
Speaker 2: target obviously. And I've been on a few boat hunts
Speaker 2: with other people where a lot of time was spent
Speaker 2: trying to recover bird which was never recovered. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's not not enjoyable.
Speaker 1: Open open uh in the woods or open terrain or vegetation.
Speaker 1: Excuse me.
Speaker 2: Both have their adventures depends on where you live. But
Speaker 2: I mean for us out here, I'll always go for
Speaker 2: the thick and dark and all those inside of twenty
Speaker 2: yard shots.
Speaker 1: Yep, I there. I mean like that spot where U
Speaker 1: n s I killed your bird, Like it was pretty
Speaker 1: open up top and then it was timbered. So it's
Speaker 1: not like thick timber, but it's it's kind of a
Speaker 1: mosaic and it seems like we end up finding ourselves.
Speaker 1: You know, some a lot of this is industrial timberland
Speaker 1: where you're gonna have, you know, thick timber patches, you're
Speaker 1: gonna have clearcuts, you're gonna have your road systems. And
Speaker 1: that's why a lot of time these road systems inside
Speaker 1: the you know, these heavy timber, it ends up being
Speaker 1: like good travel corridors. So it's, yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 1: I want to be in the woods, be tight, but
Speaker 1: you know, you may find yourself in a road. You
Speaker 1: might find yourself in an old clearcut or a thin
Speaker 1: piece of timber. You know. It's really wherever we find
Speaker 1: the birds.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're definitely gonna use every easy access because
Speaker 2: they love easy traveling too, So you're gonna find them
Speaker 2: wherever you're walking easy.
Speaker 1: Are you hunting the rain or you're gonna just wait
Speaker 1: for clear weather.
Speaker 2: I hate hunting turkeys in the rain. They I hate
Speaker 2: it as much as they enjoy it. Basically, you'll see
Speaker 2: them just sitting there, all hunched over like somebody without
Speaker 2: a rain coat, just miserable. So I'll stay home. It's
Speaker 2: not worth it. There's better days.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have a luxury. Guy was gonna say, you
Speaker 1: have the luxury of being close and you you dedicate
Speaker 1: so much time to it that you'll just pick the
Speaker 1: good day. And now let's say I'm I'm coming over
Speaker 1: or I'm coming to an area, I've only got five
Speaker 1: days to hunt. Might as well be out there. Right.
Speaker 1: It might not be as good, but there's always a chance.
Speaker 1: And it seems like we talked a little bit last
Speaker 1: year where we want the weather patterns to kind of
Speaker 1: stabilize for you know, a short stretch. But do you
Speaker 1: notice like if you come off the backside of a rainstorm,
Speaker 1: maybe there's a break in the weather and it really
Speaker 1: clears up. Are you going to get better action? Is
Speaker 1: that like a good time to be out in the woods.
Speaker 2: If the pressure stays the same, then yeah. And even
Speaker 2: in the heavy downpour, we've called birds in in the
Speaker 2: pass on times, Like you said, people came in out
Speaker 2: of town and you know, we got these three days,
Speaker 2: and these three days are bad. But we can go
Speaker 2: out there in a heavy downpour and still call a
Speaker 2: bird and gobblin. Even though he looks terrible, he'll come in.
Speaker 2: But you know, if I have a choice, it's different.
Speaker 2: And like you said, if it breaks, usually they're going
Speaker 2: to light back up pretty quick, or you'll find them
Speaker 2: on the edge of a field out here or an
Speaker 2: opening where they can catch a breeze and dry off.
Speaker 2: So go to those openings where the wind is live,
Speaker 2: giving them a chance to dry off.
Speaker 1: If you only had you have to hunt your water
Speaker 1: or hunt your food.
Speaker 2: I don't find that hunting near water with our birds
Speaker 2: is critical, not at all. So food seems to be
Speaker 2: more important, and that changes depending on what time of
Speaker 2: the season it is.
Speaker 1: Gotcha, we have to make an assumption on this one.
Speaker 1: You've got a hint decoy, but you have to grab
Speaker 1: your second decoy. You're grabbing a long beard, you're grabbing
Speaker 1: a jake.
Speaker 2: And that's a tough one too. I mean, a long
Speaker 2: beer is going to work if you don't put them
Speaker 2: in a dominant area. And it depends on how I've
Speaker 2: found personally, it depends on how many birds are in
Speaker 2: that zone. If there's a lot of dominant tom's already there,
Speaker 2: then a tom's not going to make a difference. If
Speaker 2: there's maybe not quite so many, I've found that a
Speaker 2: jake works really good at a distance from the hen.
Speaker 1: Gotcha are you going? Are you bringing a twelve gage
Speaker 1: or a four to ten or twenty?
Speaker 2: If I had a choice between all of them and
Speaker 2: I only had to choose one gun, I'd probably bring
Speaker 2: that twelve gage because sometimes out here you are shooting
Speaker 2: through so pile of junk, So that's going to be
Speaker 2: the number one choice. If I had to pick.
Speaker 1: TSS heavy shot or copper.
Speaker 2: TSS every time, Let's see, if I could buy a
Speaker 2: really cheap Walmart arrow to go elk hunting, would I
Speaker 2: do that? No, So I'm gonna GOSS.
Speaker 1: And TSS like and with to add to that, we
Speaker 1: both use custom ammal and you've got a custom amimal supplier.
Speaker 1: I'm using some fox trot that it's just good, and
Speaker 1: it's it's amazing when somebody takes a little more time
Speaker 1: and and you know, gets the right buffer and gets
Speaker 1: like the right load. Just how much more you can
Speaker 1: pull out of these shotguns which you can only kill
Speaker 1: a turkey so dead. But like you said, when you're
Speaker 1: shooting through brush or I don't I'm very hesitant to
Speaker 1: use the word marginal shots. It's they're good shots, but
Speaker 1: you need to know your equipment and that you're gonna
Speaker 1: have enough bebies going through there to be very lethal
Speaker 1: and effective. But yeah, some of these custom loads that
Speaker 1: people are using, now, you know in some of these
Speaker 1: you know you use pattern Master chokes. I use Indian Creek,
Speaker 1: you use it different, just regardless. I guess the moral
Speaker 1: of the story is know your know your choke, know
Speaker 1: your load, and know that when you pull that thing,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a whole lot of TSS hitting inside
Speaker 1: of you know, the head and neck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you said, I mean time on paper, we
Speaker 2: can't say that enough. Get out there and know exactly
Speaker 2: what's happening at different distances, what it's capable of doing
Speaker 2: and TSS. You know, you don't need to spend that
Speaker 2: much money on a shell. But I mean, if you
Speaker 2: want to take your best shot, then you might as
Speaker 2: well be using a number nine BB that has the
Speaker 2: weight of a number four or five with small, amazing penetration.
Speaker 2: So why not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, that's the thing Like I make a point,
Speaker 1: especially with my wife, I never add up what it
Speaker 1: costs to kill these turkeys, you know, after gas and tags,
Speaker 1: and it's like, all right, yeah, these these some of
Speaker 1: these shells are five to you know, five to ten
Speaker 1: bucks apiece at times there they are expensive, but like
Speaker 1: that's the that's another gallon the gas when I just
Speaker 1: drove across the state and then got to drive all
Speaker 1: the way back. So it's like, when the time comes,
Speaker 1: I just assume kill the turkey, be very effective, have
Speaker 1: additional effective range if needed, or a follow up shot.
Speaker 1: So I'm with you there. I like TSS. You know,
Speaker 1: heavy shot was the best we had for while. And
Speaker 1: then you know, it's like I had rigs built for
Speaker 1: copper plated too. It's like, as long as it's good
Speaker 1: enough on paper, just make sure you're confident in it
Speaker 1: and know your effective range, and then go out and
Speaker 1: make it work.
Speaker 2: I mean, pick the company you want to work with,
Speaker 2: whatever shot you're happy with, and what you feel confident
Speaker 2: with equipment wise, That's really what it comes down to.
Speaker 1: Okay, would you rather if you can only hunt in
Speaker 1: one place? Would you be feeding areas or roosting areas?
Speaker 2: Uh? Probably feeding areas to be honest, if I only
Speaker 2: had a choice of one place, because they're going to
Speaker 2: go there guaranteed.
Speaker 1: Yep. When you call, you either can call very aggressively
Speaker 1: or you can only call once every twenty minutes.
Speaker 2: It's going to be aggressively for me because I really
Speaker 2: like to make a point and you can demand a
Speaker 2: tom come. There is a way to doing that when
Speaker 2: you understand the language a little bit better, and I
Speaker 2: have a lot of examples of it. So if you're experienced,
Speaker 2: then you can get aggressive. If you're not, then take
Speaker 2: your time and listen to what they're saying back if
Speaker 2: you can.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that kind of that kind of wraps up
Speaker 1: our little rapid fire section. There is there anything you
Speaker 1: want to elaborate on? You know, you're a wealth of knowledge.
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed. I had never hunted with you until
Speaker 1: last year. And it's it's funny when you know size
Speaker 1: has been successful. I've been successful, You've been successful. Like,
Speaker 1: is there anything that you feel like you do different
Speaker 1: or maybe things that people don't talk about enough as
Speaker 1: far as like you know, finding success or things that
Speaker 1: you do a little bit differently. Is it is it
Speaker 1: areas that matter. Is it the way you hunt that matters?
Speaker 1: Is it what are what do you think you know?
Speaker 1: Give give our listeners. You know three to five good
Speaker 1: tips that you feel you know, maybe not everybody talks about,
Speaker 1: or things that really matter. Like if you could take
Speaker 1: these three to five things and implement them, everybody out
Speaker 1: there would be successful.
Speaker 2: Uh for me again, I'm going to go back to
Speaker 2: I really don't have a problem walking and calling constantly
Speaker 2: all the time. Uh. Basically, I'm not going to walk
Speaker 2: too far without a call because if you're going to
Speaker 2: pretend to be an then be a real hen and
Speaker 2: call pretty consistently in the morning when you're looking for
Speaker 2: another time, because you're telling them that you're a hen
Speaker 2: without a time and you're looking to breathe. So do
Speaker 2: it every thirty to forty yards. Literally, that's one of
Speaker 2: my success rates. It's really high. Don't be afraid to
Speaker 2: go into areas you've never been in before. Don't feel
Speaker 2: you have to scout it. Just get in there and
Speaker 2: put your time in. Walk around the perimeter of properties
Speaker 2: rather than down the middle of them. That's another really
Speaker 2: good successful point. If you're doing small parcels, don't overlook
Speaker 2: small parcels. A lot of people want to find that big,
Speaker 2: giant piece of land that they can go in and
Speaker 2: play with birds all day long. Some of the tiniest
Speaker 2: piece of properties that get overlooked are extremely good. Just
Speaker 2: walk around the outside of it and don't think. If
Speaker 2: you see sign, know they're there. So you can stay
Speaker 2: there all day and keep walking around it calling like
Speaker 2: a hen. You can demand they come, they will just
Speaker 2: be patient.
Speaker 1: I mean, we were hunted an area last year that
Speaker 1: had some very very steep terrain kind of over where
Speaker 1: I ended up killing my second bird with you, and
Speaker 1: you know, I looked up and there are turkey's up there.
Speaker 1: It's like everything is holding birds. The mountains are holding birds.
Speaker 1: It doesn't look like you're cookie cutter Turkey country because
Speaker 1: there isn't any ag. There isn't grassy roads, there isn't
Speaker 1: you know, open clearcuts. It's it's all steep, you know,
Speaker 1: reprod big timber. But there are birds up there, goblin
Speaker 1: and it's like if you put an effort up there.
Speaker 1: I don't want to say I guarantee, but with pretty
Speaker 1: good certainty, nobody else's messed with those birds because of
Speaker 1: where they're at. People don't want to climb a thousand
Speaker 1: and fifteen hundred feet above the road to a high point.
Speaker 1: But there are birds that are roosting up there on
Speaker 1: that ridge line, and you're going to be in birds,
Speaker 1: you know, and walk us through real quick. One of
Speaker 1: the big things, and one of the things I still
Speaker 1: struggle with is I'm maybe maybe too much of an engineer,
Speaker 1: a mathematician or a guy that wants like everything's a probability, right.
Speaker 1: And then one of the most difficult things I struggle
Speaker 1: with in the morning still to this day, is either
Speaker 1: you roosted a bird at night and you might not
Speaker 1: know the exact tree, might there might be multiple gobblers.
Speaker 1: Is it's just you know what, thirty minutes before daylight
Speaker 1: and they start to gobble. I never know which one
Speaker 1: to sit by, or which one to set up on,
Speaker 1: or you know, in a lot of times it comes
Speaker 1: down to just our gut feel. But it's like, all right,
Speaker 1: here's on X. I think these ones might fly down here,
Speaker 1: I think this is a tree therein Should I call?
Speaker 1: Shouldn't I call? What's your process in the morning, Like
Speaker 1: is it a gut feel that this one's the closest,
Speaker 1: or like last year, we moved a couple times because
Speaker 1: you specifically thought a bird was bigger based on his gobble.
Speaker 1: So we may be like, we're going to set up
Speaker 1: on that one, like, is there a better way to
Speaker 1: figure that out in the morning? Is it really just
Speaker 1: try your best set up close, set up where you
Speaker 1: think he's gonna fly down.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, again, we're talking about our birds, and
Speaker 2: I'm not talking about birds in a different part of
Speaker 2: the United States. So I'll go with that instinctively and say,
Speaker 2: if I hear him gobbling, I want to try to
Speaker 2: get in reasonably tight, preferably between honestly fifty to seventy
Speaker 2: five yards, depending on the cover. Out of course, if
Speaker 2: you don't have a lot of cover, then you're going
Speaker 2: to maybe be at one hundred yards. But if I
Speaker 2: can get into fifty and still have good cover and
Speaker 2: start working, then when they start working, letting them gobble
Speaker 2: in the morning. And then you've got to understand tree talk,
Speaker 2: and you got to understand what that means and start
Speaker 2: talking like a hen that's up in a tree. And
Speaker 2: if you can get him fired up, and if he's
Speaker 2: gobbling in your direction, basically telling you he's locking in
Speaker 2: on your tone and you know there's hens there because
Speaker 2: he probably wouldn't be there if there wasn't any ends.
Speaker 2: Then you want to flap slapping your hat on your
Speaker 2: pants or having a wing whatever you have, and be
Speaker 2: the first hen on the ground and then start doing
Speaker 2: a demanding gather up call. And for me, that honestly
Speaker 2: has worked more often than not. And have a lot
Speaker 2: of videos that show you roost work and demanding they
Speaker 2: come because you're the hand on the ground. And usually
Speaker 2: if you have more than one time in a tree,
Speaker 2: it's even better because the younger Tom is going to say,
Speaker 2: here's my opportunity. She's on the ground. I better get
Speaker 2: down there fast before he does. And that works really good.
Speaker 1: How much can you get away with when they're in
Speaker 1: the tree, like with the flap down, like they need
Speaker 1: to be out of visible, like they can't see where
Speaker 1: that's happening, or can you get away with it early enough?
Speaker 1: And then like getting into your tree, are you okay?
Speaker 1: You know once they're gobbling, Like do you feel like
Speaker 1: you've got a little bit of security to move without
Speaker 1: them picking you off? Like that's always always my concern,
Speaker 1: Like all right, they're already gobbling they're obviously awake on
Speaker 1: the limb. Can I get to seventy yards or do
Speaker 1: I need to stay out of there? Can they see yet?
Speaker 1: You know? Like those are some of the things you
Speaker 1: just play with. In some mornings you're like, I think
Speaker 1: I screwed that up, or other mornings you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I got right in here and didn't seem to bother
Speaker 1: them at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again, if you had the cover and you
Speaker 2: can get in that, that's fine. But if you don't
Speaker 2: know the area, you obviously you better be pretty darn
Speaker 2: careful if light is starting to come up. If I
Speaker 2: can see what's in the tree myself, they can see
Speaker 2: what's on the ground for the most part. But turkeys
Speaker 2: are kind of funny in this regard. Out here, if
Speaker 2: if they're up in a tree, they feel extremely safe,
Speaker 2: and if it's not a heavily pressured area, you have
Speaker 2: a lot of leeway to get in. The goal is
Speaker 2: get in and shut up for at least half an hour.
Speaker 2: You don't give away the fact that you just sat down,
Speaker 2: and then they pretty much will forget about the fact
Speaker 2: that they heard a deer or heard an elk crashing
Speaker 2: in their way through. I don't worry about making noise,
Speaker 2: because everything's making noise in the woods.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, no. And that's the thing that usually can
Speaker 1: let him settle down. Last year in Kansas, the very
Speaker 1: first day we were there, we didn't get a chance
Speaker 1: to rouse a night before. It just had to guess
Speaker 1: set up right under the bird like sixty yards away,
Speaker 1: had a decoy out. You know, it got daylight and
Speaker 1: a few jakes flew down and then his hens hung
Speaker 1: out for like an hour and he didn't come down
Speaker 1: to fly into those hens until like an hour and
Speaker 1: a half after daylight because we were so tight. And
Speaker 1: that's one of those things where like they knew he
Speaker 1: knew something was wrong. He knew at some point something
Speaker 1: but you know, ultimately had to fly down to those
Speaker 1: hens which were out in front of us and ultimately
Speaker 1: led to his demise. But yeah, can you can buger
Speaker 1: him up pretty easy on that roost. And so I
Speaker 1: think that's where I play a real conservative back out
Speaker 1: and it might not work all the time, but yeah,
Speaker 1: we were we were really aggressive. We did. We It
Speaker 1: didn't work the one time last year on the roost
Speaker 1: with us, but we had birds everywhere around this We
Speaker 1: had hens popping their head up. We were on a
Speaker 1: we were kind of on a bench that had a
Speaker 1: real steep drop off, and so it was kind of
Speaker 1: a an interesting setup how close we and it was
Speaker 1: it was fun because you never knew what was going
Speaker 1: to pop up. But yeah, no kidding, Yeah no, that
Speaker 1: was that was fun. So, uh no, I really appreciate
Speaker 1: you having you on, John. You're one of the you know,
Speaker 1: one of the guys I look up to when it
Speaker 1: comes turcky hut and get it done year in, year out.
Speaker 1: You spend you spend as much time turkey hunting as
Speaker 1: I do el hunting. So I respect that. And uh yeah,
Speaker 1: you're your wealth of knowledge and can you let other
Speaker 1: people know where to find out about you Northwest purchasers.
Speaker 1: Let people know a little bit. I don't want to
Speaker 1: mess it all up. You do some veterans hunts. You
Speaker 1: take a lot of kids in youth their first time hunters,
Speaker 1: elaborate on that a little bit where people can find
Speaker 1: you and then can't wait to go hunt with you
Speaker 1: in May.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, looking forward to We're going to have a blast.
Speaker 2: Let's just hope for that weather again. Ye yeah, we
Speaker 2: need some weather, right Although looking really good so far.
Speaker 2: But as far as finding me, you know, you can
Speaker 2: find me on Instagram at Northwest spur Chasers, no problem.
Speaker 2: You can also go on YouTube and I'll answer anything
Speaker 2: you guys want to talk about. For the most part,
Speaker 2: unless you're looking for an exact location, you know that's unrealistic.
Speaker 2: Beyond that, those are the easiest ways to get a
Speaker 2: hold of me. I stay on top of it. You
Speaker 2: can message me through either one and we can talk more.
Speaker 2: And you know, you look back at the videos. I
Speaker 2: got stuff up there that's even embarrassing for me to watch.
Speaker 2: So it's fun to lead the progression and not be
Speaker 2: afraid to show people. Look how it was in the beginning,
Speaker 2: and you know here it is now, so you can
Speaker 2: learn a lot. The veterans thing. I do want to
Speaker 2: put a pitch out there for that. So one of
Speaker 2: our passions is we're always looking for opportunities give back,
Speaker 2: and so you know, here's harvest Is who I like
Speaker 2: to work with, and we've been running a camp over
Speaker 2: in Idaho. We're actually taking a break this year simply
Speaker 2: because we want to secure more property rather than constantly
Speaker 2: bringing people back into the same places and taking birds
Speaker 2: from a lot of the same places, so we're kind
Speaker 2: of taking a break to secure a bunch of private
Speaker 2: properties so we can work our heroes harvest for next
Speaker 2: year and years coming as well. But we are going
Speaker 2: to work with the BHA chapter from Washington of the
Speaker 2: AFI Armed Forces Initiative and we're going to do a
Speaker 2: multi joint camp with them, so we'll be helping out
Speaker 2: there as well. The other passion I have, of course
Speaker 2: is taking out kids, always looking for young kids that
Speaker 2: don't have dads or maybe someone that is just not
Speaker 2: in their life that needs to They have a need
Speaker 2: to learn more and want to learn more, so we
Speaker 2: put a lot of time into that too, and that's
Speaker 2: probably the two big passions we have.
Speaker 1: Paying attention to you. You're always helping, You're always wanting
Speaker 1: to help. It's one of the awesome things about you,
Speaker 1: as well as just knowing a ton about Turkey, so
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you having you on John and good
Speaker 1: luck in your Turkey season prior to us getting there,
Speaker 1: and then can't wait to be it up for me.