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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. In this this episode number one

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Speaker 1: hundred and eleven tennis show, we're joined by white Tail

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Speaker 1: Properties land specialist and white tail habitech insultant Jake Linger

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Speaker 1: to talk about micromanaging small properties for big deer. All right,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you

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Speaker 1: by sick Gear. Today we've got a terriffic guests, someone

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Speaker 1: who's actually nearly my neighbor as he hails from south

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Speaker 1: central Michigan, and he's someone who's got a vast amount

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Speaker 1: of white tail knowledge to share, and that's Jake and Linger.

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Speaker 1: He is a white tail habitat consultant and currently is

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Speaker 1: a land specialist for white tailed properties, and he's definitely

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Speaker 1: an expert on all things related to hunting white tails

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Speaker 1: and heavily pressured areas and managing small properties to make

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Speaker 1: that possible. And so that's exactly what we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: to Jake about today. You know exactly how to manage

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Speaker 1: a small property in a situation kind of like what

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Speaker 1: I have in Michigan or a lot of other people.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure they're listening. You know, how do we do that?

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Speaker 1: How do we hold and hunt big mature bucks in

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Speaker 1: situations like that? So that's the game plan for the

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Speaker 1: next hour, hour and a half, however long this runs, Dan,

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Speaker 1: what do you think about that plan? I like it,

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Speaker 1: You're like it? I like it. I always like talking

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Speaker 1: about deer hunting and management and property and all that

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Speaker 1: good stuff. I agree, it's a I don't know, I've

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Speaker 1: found some level of fascination with like every different type

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Speaker 1: of scenario for deer hunting. Like I love the idea

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Speaker 1: of like how do you micro manage a tiny property

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Speaker 1: with habitat improvements and stuff? But I also am like

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Speaker 1: really intrigued with like how do you hunt big public

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Speaker 1: land parcels out in the far West or something like that.

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Speaker 1: And I'm interested in how do I, you know, try

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Speaker 1: to figure out big properties of private land versus small

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Speaker 1: properties of privately All all the different types of scenarios

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Speaker 1: and ways you can kill and hunt white tails. There's

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Speaker 1: something kind of cool about all of them. So how

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Speaker 1: do we do though? Oh, oh, not too much? Um,

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Speaker 1: I accidentally eat dog food Monday? How do you accidentally

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Speaker 1: eat dog food? Well, you know, some of these gourmet

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Speaker 1: dog foods have like the cover on them, it kind

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Speaker 1: of looks like beef stew type of deal. And so

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Speaker 1: for some reason, my wife decided to get this gourmet

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Speaker 1: dog food. And I came home and I was in

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Speaker 1: a hurry because I had to record a record a podcast.

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Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, you know, I pulled this

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Speaker 1: can out and look at it, and it on the

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Speaker 1: front cover is like rice and beef and carrots, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, well, that kind of looks good. So

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Speaker 1: I I didn't, you know, real fast put it in.

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Speaker 1: There's no way this is real. There's no way this

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Speaker 1: is real. This is real, Mark, this is real this

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Speaker 1: Have you ever been that? Well, it was on Monday.

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Speaker 1: So I scoop it out. You know, I'm in a

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Speaker 1: hurry because I'm a little behind, so I scoop it out.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I gotta stuff in my face because

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Speaker 1: I haven't eaten anything all day. Throw it into the microwave,

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Speaker 1: turn it on, and I pull it out and I'm

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Speaker 1: like mm hmm, well, you know, maybe it's just the

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Speaker 1: Cheapo brand. So I put a spoon in it, put

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Speaker 1: a little bite in my mouth, and I'm like, that

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Speaker 1: doesn't taste like beef stew. So I look back at

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Speaker 1: the can and it said perk purina on it, and

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Speaker 1: uh so that was the last time I ate dog food.

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Speaker 1: You realize that there are so many people listening right

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Speaker 1: now that they have serious questions about your ability to read,

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Speaker 1: for reason, function as an adult. Well, this even blows

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Speaker 1: my mind. Well, I'll tell you what. First off, I'm

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Speaker 1: not proud of it right. Second off, you add you

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Speaker 1: add two kids into the equation of your life, and

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Speaker 1: your mind disappears like you're you are so scatter brained

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Speaker 1: all over the place that you know sometimes you accidentally

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Speaker 1: dog food. Did I tell you what? This is a

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Speaker 1: clear indication of your state of well being right now,

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Speaker 1: I'd say, like, I think all of us need to

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Speaker 1: be a little concerned about your well being. If you're

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Speaker 1: at the point where where you're accidentally eating gourmet dog food,

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Speaker 1: and I guess this to give you, you've got a

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Speaker 1: free pass Dan now for the rest of the next

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Speaker 1: couple of months at least. If things are so rough

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Speaker 1: right now that you're eating dog food by accident, if

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Speaker 1: you if you forget to check a trail camera or

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Speaker 1: if you hang a bad tree stand, don't worry about it.

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Speaker 1: You It's understandable. That's that stuff's important, all right, Like

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Speaker 1: eating Accidentally eating dog food really is like, oh, oh no,

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Speaker 1: I accidentally ate dog food. Now if I put the

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Speaker 1: stand in the wrong spot or forget to turn the

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Speaker 1: trail camera on, that's a big deal. That's more that

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Speaker 1: has bigger repercussions and accidentally dog food, I suppose. So

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Speaker 1: what did you tell your wife about this? Oh? No,

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Speaker 1: I didn't so really, I mean, it's a little embarrassing.

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Speaker 1: The only thing I asked her to do is, hey,

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Speaker 1: can you do the little Yeah, hey, can you do

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Speaker 1: me a favor and not put the dog food, the

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Speaker 1: gourmet dog food next to the serving side canned food

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Speaker 1: items that we have in there. She's like, I go,

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Speaker 1: it could be it could be a little you know, mistaken,

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Speaker 1: And she's like why, And then I didn't say anything.

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Speaker 1: So how would you describe the taste real quickly? Here?

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Speaker 1: Like kind of like dog food? I don't know how

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Speaker 1: that I can't relate to That means I've never eaten

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Speaker 1: dog food, I don't. I mean it had kind of

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Speaker 1: a beefy taste to it, you know, but you know

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't go I wasn't going in for a second

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Speaker 1: a second scoop If that makes sense, Yeah, yeah, it does.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna do your favorite here. I'm gonna move

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Speaker 1: on from this topic. Hey, I want to talk real

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Speaker 1: quick about scouting in Montana. Have you seen anything else

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Speaker 1: while you've been out scouting? I do have some quick

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Speaker 1: updates on that. Great, great topic to bring up, actually,

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Speaker 1: because just yesterday I called the Fishing Game Agency here

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Speaker 1: trying some information about some of these public land areas

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Speaker 1: that well they're private land that's open to public hunting

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Speaker 1: through their walk in hunting program here in Montana. And basically,

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Speaker 1: you know, I've been I've had some maps I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at the show these properties, and so I was targeting

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Speaker 1: handful of these properties that I've been trying to start

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Speaker 1: to scout from the road and stuff, and I was

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Speaker 1: gonna try to, you know, get on them and walk

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Speaker 1: around to try to figure them out a little bit

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Speaker 1: before I come back and hunt. So I called them

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Speaker 1: to ask a couple of questions about, you know, how

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Speaker 1: do I go about doing that? Can I just show

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Speaker 1: up or do anything to sign in or something, and

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Speaker 1: this person, um just was really short with me and

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Speaker 1: just did not seem to be in a good mood.

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Speaker 1: And um, you know, they just basically said that you

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Speaker 1: can't do anything that the new the new property listing

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Speaker 1: blah blah doesn't come up till mid August, and every

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Speaker 1: time I had a question about anything additional, they just

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Speaker 1: said that, well you gotta wait till augu Um. So

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Speaker 1: I got completely shut down and I just kind of

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Speaker 1: like with stammering on the phone for like thirty seconds.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know how to handle this response got But

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Speaker 1: long story short, I was bummed out about that because now,

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Speaker 1: well what properties. I have no idea where I can

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Speaker 1: hunt because they can't confirm whether or not these properties

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Speaker 1: are open to the public or not. So I can't

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Speaker 1: go scout. I can't do anything like that. Um. So

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Speaker 1: last night I'm like, well, what the heck am I

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Speaker 1: gonna do? I start thinking, you know, should I just

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Speaker 1: start knock on doors, try to get private permission somewhere? Um,

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Speaker 1: these are all things I'll starting to think about last night.

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Speaker 1: But I thought, you're not gonna go for a drive

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Speaker 1: in this general region again and just try it again,

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Speaker 1: get a better idea of where the you know, where

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Speaker 1: the deer are, where some of these better bucks might be.

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Speaker 1: And two good things happened. Number One, Um, I saw

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Speaker 1: five shooters. I saw some really nice bucks, probably in

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Speaker 1: the hundred and thirty forty class, I'd say, Um, so

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Speaker 1: some definitely mature deer in the general area that I'm looking,

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Speaker 1: which is encouraging. And then the second thing that was

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Speaker 1: a bit serendipitous would be that as I was riding

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Speaker 1: back from this deer drive at what one, I saw

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Speaker 1: black bear, which is cool. He came around across the road.

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Speaker 1: And then number two, as I'm driving back from my drive,

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Speaker 1: there's a truck and trailer off side of the road

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Speaker 1: and they waved me down and pull over and they've

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Speaker 1: got a flat tire. So I end up helping these folks,

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Speaker 1: um get back to their house, try to get to

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Speaker 1: jack and all that kind of stuff. And after you know,

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Speaker 1: chit chatting and stuff and helping them along, they mentioned

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Speaker 1: that they own a bunch of land in the area.

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Speaker 1: And then I'd be lucky, lucky son of a gun. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they said I'd be welcome to hunt it. So, um,

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Speaker 1: you know that isn't for sure for sure, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've got to you know, foul up on and everything.

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Speaker 1: But based on this, uh, this uh encounter last night,

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Speaker 1: some really nice people, Um, I might have a place

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Speaker 1: to hunt. So very lucky. I've never had that happen before. Um.

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Speaker 1: You always hear these stories about getting lucky like that

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Speaker 1: and running across someone who happens to have a place

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Speaker 1: even hunt, And finally happened to me, So I'm not complaining.

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Speaker 1: I had a friend who was had a situation like that.

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Speaker 1: He headed over to ellenor Way to do a quick scout,

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Speaker 1: um like a I don't know, a quick scouting because

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Speaker 1: he wanted to go hunt in Illinois and he was

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Speaker 1: looking around. So all this property in this area that

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Speaker 1: he was looking around had been leased and uh leased

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Speaker 1: by outfitters and like I guess some notable outfitters that

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Speaker 1: have like do really good at management. We're talking you know,

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Speaker 1: several booone and Crockett Deer every year. And uh so

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Speaker 1: he's driving down the road and he sees this lawnmower

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Speaker 1: on its side in a ditch. Well luckily the guy

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Speaker 1: riding it was not hurt, but he ended up helping

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Speaker 1: this guy tip a lawnmower back on and help him

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Speaker 1: drive it out of this ditch. And this guy owned

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Speaker 1: like twenty five acres. And then that's how this guy

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Speaker 1: and he's like, hey, man, I see you got all

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Speaker 1: these bow hunting stickers on your truck. You bow hunt.

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Speaker 1: And the guys like, yeah, I'm look, I'm actually down

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Speaker 1: here looking for you know places the hunt. He goes,

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Speaker 1: you're more than welcome to hunt my place. And it

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Speaker 1: was just an overgrown and overgrown pasture or that hadn't

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Speaker 1: had cows in it for like thirty years. So he

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Speaker 1: puts choke camera up and just like I think three

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Speaker 1: Boone and Crockett deer were making their way through that

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Speaker 1: through that area in between these two bigger chunks of timber.

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Speaker 1: So he he got real lucky. Yeah, that's awesome. It Uh,

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Speaker 1: you shouldn't do good things to try to get a

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Speaker 1: nice reward, but every once in a while it's it's

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Speaker 1: kind of neat that karma comes around. I suppose, right,

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Speaker 1: that's right, that's right, So you gotta start doing nice

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Speaker 1: things for people. Damn. I do nice things for people

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Speaker 1: every single day. I know I'm kidding. I opened doors

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Speaker 1: for people. I tell random strangers. Hey, like things like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you got some nice teeth in your mouth. You you

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Speaker 1: have literally said that to somebody. No, I've never said that,

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Speaker 1: but you know that's one thing people don't comment comment

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Speaker 1: a lot on is teeth. That's true. Maybe you could

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Speaker 1: make somebody's man, you got some good teeth. I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: that this. We're really quickly about to get side for health.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna sponsor here pretty soon if if we

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Speaker 1: don't get the guests on the line. Yeah. So we

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Speaker 1: we've covered dog food, we covered Montana scouting, We've covered compliments.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's a great place to end this intro.

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Speaker 1: And we're gonna take We're gonna take a quick break

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Speaker 1: for a word from our partners at Sick of Gear.

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Speaker 1: And I'm actually in their basement again recording as I

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Speaker 1: told you a second ago. And uh, we'll take a

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Speaker 1: word to hear from Sicka and then we'll give Jake Cale.

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Speaker 1: So we do want to give it a big thank

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Speaker 1: you to Sick a Gear for the support of this podcast.

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Speaker 1: You know, they've contributed in a lot of ways that

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Speaker 1: helped us keep this show on the air, most notably

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Speaker 1: at the moment by letting me record here and today

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Speaker 1: I want to mention briefly one of their new pieces

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Speaker 1: for two thousand and sixteen, and that's the Fanatic Light bibbs.

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Speaker 1: These are similar in form and function to the original

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Speaker 1: Fanatic bibs, which I love. But the big difference here

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Speaker 1: is that while the originals were super insulated for those

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Speaker 1: long cold, you know, November late season days, these Fanatic

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Speaker 1: Lights they offer a much thinner, gritted flace installation, which

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Speaker 1: is going to make these perfect for those early two

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Speaker 1: mid season sits. And what's super nice about is if

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Speaker 1: you layer some kind of installation underneath, you could probably

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Speaker 1: rock these right into the later parts of the year.

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Speaker 1: So it's a very versatile lower body piece and something

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Speaker 1: that I know I'm going to be wearing a lot

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Speaker 1: this year. In addition all that, the Fanatic Lights have

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Speaker 1: got great handwarming pockets and full two way zips that

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Speaker 1: go up and down the pant legs, allowing you to

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Speaker 1: vent when you're walking, to keep you from sweating when

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Speaker 1: you're going in and out of stands, or just make

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Speaker 1: it easy to get them on and off maybe before hunt,

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Speaker 1: after hunt, whatever might be. So I'm excited to try

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Speaker 1: these this year, and if you would like to learn more,

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Speaker 1: you can visit sa gear dot com. And now let's

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Speaker 1: get back to the show with us. Now on the

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Speaker 1: line is Jake e Linger. I screwed up last time. Sorry, Jake,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Hey, thank you Mark. Great to

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Speaker 1: be on a show with you, And couldness be with

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Speaker 1: Dan as well? Absolutely? Well, we're we're excited chat. And

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Speaker 1: you know, this is one episode where we occasionally have

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Speaker 1: these episodes we hadn't one a couple of weeks ago

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Speaker 1: where me or Dan or both of us are selfishly

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Speaker 1: particularly interested with our guests because we think they can

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Speaker 1: really help us, and I think you can really help

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Speaker 1: me because we have very similar scenarios. You know, we're

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Speaker 1: right down there in south central Michigan hunting similar properties

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Speaker 1: and similar types of areas at least. So I'm looking

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Speaker 1: forward to picking your brain about how you've had so

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Speaker 1: much success here in Michigan. And I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of other people will be able to have some things

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Speaker 1: they can learn from you too. But I suppose before

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Speaker 1: we get too far into that, Jake, you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you knew this, but I actually first

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Speaker 1: heard about you from my friend Corey Daniel. You know

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Speaker 1: Corey Um. And Corey had told me about this guy

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Speaker 1: who he used to bring his antlers to to get

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Speaker 1: your amounted. And he told me about this guy, Jake,

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Speaker 1: that lives down in such and such area, and he

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Speaker 1: brought some antlers over and he remembered once that it

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Speaker 1: was either I think your house or your barn or something.

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Speaker 1: You brought him out there back and you looked out

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Speaker 1: over the back of this building down into this lush

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Speaker 1: food plot and he told me, oh man, this is

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Speaker 1: just the coolest place, this beautiful food plot and all

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Speaker 1: these deer coming out. He's like that guy really knew

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Speaker 1: what he was doing. And so ever since then, I

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Speaker 1: was like, I need to meet Jake. And so since

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Speaker 1: then we've been able to meet, we've been able to chat,

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Speaker 1: and it's been really great getting to know you and

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Speaker 1: learn from you. But for those who don't have that

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Speaker 1: background with you, Jake, could you tell us a little

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Speaker 1: bit about you know, what you do, what's your background,

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Speaker 1: and what you're doing today related to deer and whitetail

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Speaker 1: habitat Sure Sure Mark Um. I started a business habitat

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Speaker 1: Foolish in three sixty about fourteen fifteen years ago um

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Speaker 1: and my goal at that time was to try and

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Speaker 1: help the small landowner who had lived all trials and

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Speaker 1: tribulations that I have is in wanting to hunt bigger

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Speaker 1: and better deer hunting in southern Michigan, high pressure with

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Speaker 1: non cooperative neighbors the kind of sum it up and U.

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Speaker 1: So I spent a lot of years young in my

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Speaker 1: life learning everything I could about white tailed deer. And

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Speaker 1: I was lucky to have permission, probably when I was

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Speaker 1: in my early to late teens, to hunt on a

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Speaker 1: really nice property in Hillsdale County. And I'm just one

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Speaker 1: of those guys that notices everything. And the thing that

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Speaker 1: stuck in my head was the diversity the different types

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Speaker 1: of cover, the different types of cover that deer used

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Speaker 1: at different types of the year, food sources, things like that.

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Speaker 1: So you know, when I was in my early thirties,

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Speaker 1: my wife and I were lucky enough to buy a

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Speaker 1: sixty seven and three quarter acre farm here in Lenuay County,

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Speaker 1: and and from the day we closed on it, I

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Speaker 1: came out here and I started making changes immediately, from

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Speaker 1: planning trees to uh trying to increase the cover, trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out where the deer we're betting if there

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Speaker 1: was an ey betting in those types of things. So

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Speaker 1: over the years, my background has always been prior to

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Speaker 1: this business, I was a mechanical engineer in the high

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Speaker 1: speed automation business and the Detroit automotive world. From a

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Speaker 1: real detail oriented guy, a lot of drafting and engineering

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Speaker 1: type of thought processes. So when I built this business,

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Speaker 1: I thought, well, why can't I do this just like

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Speaker 1: I did all my proposal work when I was an engineer.

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Speaker 1: So I put the plans together, basically started out with

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Speaker 1: written plans, very detailed written plans, and then my design

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Speaker 1: layouts that I do of the property itself. I take

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Speaker 1: these satellite photo and I reproduced that in hand drawing,

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Speaker 1: and I draw the kind of detail that a lot

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Speaker 1: of people in this business won't do, and I break

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Speaker 1: it right down into you know, every screen meaning uh,

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Speaker 1: you know every betting area, of the separation of does

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Speaker 1: and bucks and that sort of thing, stand locations, entry

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Speaker 1: and exit strategies, really get into a lot of detail. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's you know, it's just been a blast, uh to

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Speaker 1: be a part of and grow this business. The Achilles

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Speaker 1: heel is the amount of time and detail it takes

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Speaker 1: out of me to provide that kind of service, so

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Speaker 1: I can only help so many people a year. And

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Speaker 1: through the through this business, I became associated with the

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Speaker 1: people that own white Tail Properties about four years ago. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They saw some of my YouTube videos, were really intrigued

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Speaker 1: with what I was doing and asked me to come

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Speaker 1: help them with some of their Illinois and Missouri properties.

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Speaker 1: And through that relationship really got to know the guys

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Speaker 1: and they asked if they could film some of the

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Speaker 1: techniques I do and put it on their hunting show,

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Speaker 1: which I had no problem doing. And they said, geez,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know land so well, You're so good

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Speaker 1: with people, You're so passionate about what you're doing. We're

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Speaker 1: thinking about opening up Michigan, as you know, another one

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Speaker 1: of their states to put land specialists into to to

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Speaker 1: us sell hunting lands and farms. So they offered me

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to to uh work directly with them, representing

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Speaker 1: the company as a land specialist. And white Tail Properties

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Speaker 1: has come into Michigan about a year ago, just about

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Speaker 1: this time last year, and so I went ahead and

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Speaker 1: got my my real estate training, took the test, past

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Speaker 1: the test, and I'm a land specialist for white tail

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Speaker 1: properties real estate as well, and that's such a good

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Speaker 1: you know, both businesses benefit one another, you know, the

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Speaker 1: the properties that I do designs on and help the hunters.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's a gee, do you know of any

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Speaker 1: property for sale or cheese? You know, you did such

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Speaker 1: a good job on my property. I've killed some great books,

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Speaker 1: but I'd like to take this forty acres and turn

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Speaker 1: it into a hunt or do you know of any

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Speaker 1: properties in the area to sell? So it's working out

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Speaker 1: really good as a companion business. So that's pretty much

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Speaker 1: how I got to where I'm at today. That sounds

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Speaker 1: like a pretty fun gig. I gotta believe there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of a lot of fun times out there on

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Speaker 1: those properties, whether you're selling them or managing and improving

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Speaker 1: them or just talking to people about them. You know,

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Speaker 1: it really is, mark Um. I've been blessed to be

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Speaker 1: able to see so many different properties, so many different

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Speaker 1: habitats that deer use, and you know, be that the

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Speaker 1: urban environment, the deep woods the Midwest that you know,

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Speaker 1: deep ravines are just uh we'll call Billiard table flat

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Speaker 1: land that you would see in certain parts of central

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Speaker 1: Michigan and central Ohio and Illinois. Uh, you know, and

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Speaker 1: so dear our deer. They all react in similar situations,

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Speaker 1: but depending on topography, you're going to do a habitat

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Speaker 1: plan a little bit different, you know. Uh. So, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I I take everything I learned from each property, and

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Speaker 1: at this point, I think I've been to just under

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Speaker 1: six d properties in the last fourteen years, and so

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Speaker 1: as a heck of a lot of data I can

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Speaker 1: throw into my brain to help out the next guy

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Speaker 1: that calls me and wants me to do a plan form. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: so what I kind of want to do, what I'm

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Speaker 1: hoping we can do, is I'm hoping we kind of

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Speaker 1: mine all of that data that you've accumulated to help

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Speaker 1: each of us as individuals better look at our own

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Speaker 1: properties or our own situation and apply some of these

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Speaker 1: things you've learned, hopefully. And I thought it might be

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Speaker 1: interesting if you're willing to share, um, taking a look

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Speaker 1: at your own property, or at least the property um

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Speaker 1: that I've I've read about in the past that I

396
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Speaker 1: know you've done some work. I'm not sure if that's

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Speaker 1: still the same one, um, but but that's sixty seven

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Speaker 1: and a half acres or whatever. Is that still the

399
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Speaker 1: farm that you hunt the most or manage the most

400
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Speaker 1: of your own. Yet oh it is it's a it's

401
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Speaker 1: the only farm I hunt in Michigan. Uh. You know

402
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Speaker 1: one of the things. You know, you can travel throughout

403
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Speaker 1: the Midwest, go to a lot of different states hunt

404
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Speaker 1: some great deer, hunting some great areas. UH. To me,

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Speaker 1: the biggest challenge I like is trying to make based

406
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Speaker 1: on uh, I have certain uh I call it realistic expectations.

407
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Speaker 1: You know, I'm certainly not going to produce and grow

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Speaker 1: multiple boon and crocketts on this small farm, Okay, but

409
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Speaker 1: I really enjoy doing the work and getting the best

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Speaker 1: deer that I possibly can have grow on this property.

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Speaker 1: And just to give you a little background, it's uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's your typical half mile deep. Uh. It

413
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Speaker 1: was a seventy acre farm and a small little uh

414
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Speaker 1: three and a half acres was taken out of the

415
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Speaker 1: corner that the original farm house and barn was split

416
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Speaker 1: off of the property before it was sold. It's what

417
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Speaker 1: you call gently rolling over here. I'm gonna say. The

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Speaker 1: topography changes about to thirty five feet nothing really steep.

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Speaker 1: There's one small steep bank that goes to a swamp,

420
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Speaker 1: but but not the kind of ridges that you would

421
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Speaker 1: see in you know, say Illinois and Missouri and that

422
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: type of thing. And it does have a really very

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Speaker 1: interesting wetland. It winds through kind of the the central

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Speaker 1: core of the property, and so it divides the north

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Speaker 1: and the south sections with the high lands. It actually

426
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Speaker 1: separates the two and there's peninsulas and small islands, and

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Speaker 1: so I've come to really appreciate having the water and

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Speaker 1: that transition area where you go from flooded timber to hardwoods.

429
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: And when I first bought the property, that's where the

430
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,439
Speaker 1: deer movement was because there's a big change in stem

431
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: density from where you have open you know, where the

432
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 1: sunlight's getting in creating early successional growth where there's a

433
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,679
Speaker 1: swamp system to where it transitions over to say a

434
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 1: mixture of oaks and maples, which is typical forest habitat

435
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,639
Speaker 1: that we have here in southern Michigan. But it was

436
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 1: a closed canopy for forest. Uh it. It had about

437
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 1: twenty two acres tillable on it, and at that time

438
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure what I was gonna do, so I

439
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: kept just cutting away at it, and uh I found

440
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,239
Speaker 1: out that there was only two small locations that there

441
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: were any deer doing any betting on this property. Uh.

442
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: You know, I see a lot of closed canopy woods

443
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: here in Michigan. So if you've got no understory and

444
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: no cover, you're not gonna have a lot of betting.

445
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 1: But you know, on the other hand, there were some

446
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: good stands oaks, So depending on the year, uh mass crops,

447
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,360
Speaker 1: you could have great acorn drop and you'd have quite

448
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 1: a few deer using the property. But you know, when

449
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 1: you go back to uh, it was when I bought

450
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: this property and I knew nothing about scent control and

451
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 1: over hunting stands, and I made all those mistakes, you know,

452
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 1: I mean, you name it, I did it. But on

453
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: the other hand, you know, that's the best way to learn.

454
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: So it didn't take very long. Mark when I where

455
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: I I started, uh cutting trees. Okay, I actually had

456
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 1: some some select cut timber up cut done on this property.

457
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: I think I had three cuts on this property, staged

458
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: at seven year intervals, and once in a while i'd

459
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: i'd have some good cutting situations that took place where

460
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 1: I did get a lot of early successional growth. Right away.

461
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: I had deer betting in them, and you know, and

462
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: I know all during this time I bought them, uh

463
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: a Deer and Deer Hunting magazine. I was just trying

464
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 1: to suck up every piece of information you could about

465
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: Dear Habitat. I read every book that John Ozoga had written,

466
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 1: and you know, he talked a lot about clear cutting

467
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: and selective cut and creating cover. And so I just

468
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 1: went off on my own trying to create cover on

469
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: this property. And probably in the I want to say

470
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 1: mid eighties to early nineties, people were discussing food plots.

471
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 1: So I started getting into, you know, rather than leasing

472
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: my farm out for corn and soybeans and that type

473
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: of saying, uh, telling the farmer, hey, you know, I'm

474
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 1: gonna take this seven acres and I'm no longer going

475
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:06,880
Speaker 1: to plant it, you know, and he'd have he'd looked

476
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: at me with that what are you doing look, because

477
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: he doesn't want it taken away, and he thinks a

478
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,719
Speaker 1: lot of you know, what are you gonna do with him?

479
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make dear habitat, you know. And so my

480
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: wife and I got two sons, and at the time

481
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 1: though both my boys were probably you know, uh, mid

482
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: to late teenage years and you know, and so I'd

483
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: tell them, hey, you know, I bought a bunch of trees,

484
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 1: We're gonna plant some trees, and oh, you know, they

485
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 1: would they would disappear on weekends. You don't even know

486
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 1: where they were, you know, because the guy would be

487
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: a lot of work. But but the truth is it

488
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: was a lot of fun. And we planted all kinds

489
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: of conifers and hardwoods as well, and masked you know, uh,

490
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: different type of mass trees that we're not common from

491
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: around here, and really got into you know, growing food

492
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 1: and creating cover and uh turning it. At the time,

493
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: I didn't you didn't realize what I was doing. But

494
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: I'd been one property in Central Hillsdale County that I

495
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: had permission to hunt that there were pods of trees

496
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: rather than trees being in a block. They didn't they

497
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: didn't seem to make any sense, but you felt like

498
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: you were in amaze when you walked around. So I

499
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 1: basically emulated that and planted trees and all, you know,

500
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: a few straight lines here and there, but a lot

501
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: of crazy groupings and fingers and points and alcoves and

502
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: ended up taking seven acres and over about ten years

503
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: at seven acres developed into just an incredible core area

504
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: of buckandole movement and you know, great food plots and

505
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: you know it just you know, so each year I

506
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 1: would learn I'd learned from my successes and you evaluate

507
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: my failures just like anybody. Uh, but got real good

508
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: at planning food plots, and then really got into uh

509
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: you know, into the technique of hinge cutting, started hearing

510
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: about it, started reading about it, had friends of mine

511
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: that had tried it or been somewhere where they had

512
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: seen it done, and got into hinge cutting, and that

513
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: completely blue things up on this property as far as

514
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: you know, instant success for bedding and predictability, a dear movement.

515
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 1: And then from that I learned, you know, what the

516
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,919
Speaker 1: size of a hinge cut you should have. And probably

517
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: I want to say mid eighties, early nineties, we had

518
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: a really dead ice storm here one year and you've

519
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: seen it, you know, you know, right there where you hunt.

520
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: Sometimes we'll have an ice storm in February and it

521
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: will never get warm enough and the ice hangs on

522
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: the trees for weeks. So what I had was I

523
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: had a peninsula that went out into this swamp and

524
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: there was about a dozen the fifteen red cedar trees

525
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: it might have been you know, six to eight inches

526
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: in diameter, but twenty ft tall. Although all that ice

527
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: took those trees and just been them in a big arch.

528
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: And anyways, after the ice thought those trees never returned

529
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: in an upright position. So you had this beautiful arching

530
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: that was that you could literally walk underneath. And it

531
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: didn't take long for me to figure out that's where

532
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: all the bucks were betted. And then I started trying

533
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: to copy all that either polling trees down with ropes

534
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: and uh you know, hinge cutting and stacking trees on

535
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: top of each other to basically duplicate that effect. And uh,

536
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: you know, just over the years, I have created this

537
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: property with a lot of good food of some great

538
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: betting locations. And I learned early on in this when

539
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,719
Speaker 1: I started doing the timber management, that there were certain

540
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: locations those seemed to prefer to bed and and locations

541
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: that bucks seemed to prefer to bed. And they were

542
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: not the same two locations. And now you read about it,

543
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: and you know, in in a lot of different tuff places.

544
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: But you know, if you go back twenty years ago,

545
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: nobody talked about that. So that was one of the

546
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: first things I noticed on my own was that seemed

547
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: like bucks and does like to have segregated bedding, and

548
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: the dope families were into larger bedding groups, and the

549
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: bucks like to be isolated, and they were solitary creatures.

550
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: And so I really started focusing on that and developing

551
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: more and more isolated small betting areas for bucks, and

552
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: larger betting areas created for dope family groups, and then

553
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: attaching them with travel corridors. And and this property is

554
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: just a really great property. I mean, it's it's something

555
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: to watch during the hunting season, and you know, as

556
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: the years went by, you know, I mean, they're it

557
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: just you know, things that you'd learned, you know, like

558
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: you know, any of us who's hunted, we saw plenty

559
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: of ground scrapes. And I'm a real watcher, and so

560
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: I'd always sit in these trees of binoculars from a

561
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: long distance away and just watch, you know everything, Why

562
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: is a buck doing what he's doing? And even though

563
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: I never really understood it a hundred percent, I started copying.

564
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: And so before you even read about mock scrapes, I

565
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: was doing that myself, pulling limbs down trying to create

566
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: places for bucks to scrape. And through the years I

567
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: found out that you can create an awful lot of

568
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: competition within your bucks on small properties by putting those

569
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: in key locations, close to bedding areas, on the edge

570
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: of food plots. And so I think for anyone that's

571
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: listening to this, if they've got a small property and

572
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: they you know, they want the best hunting they can

573
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: have up there's a phrase I coined about fifteen years ago,

574
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: and I call it the magic triangle, and that is,

575
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: you want to have the three most important things, at

576
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: least in my opinion for deer on a small pressured property,

577
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: is security, cover, food, and water all closely associated each other.

578
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: So so jake them. A question then, is, in your

579
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: particular instance, how did you go about actually implementing those

580
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: things you talked about, the cuttings and things like that.

581
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,239
Speaker 1: But I'm kind of curious about, well maybe maybe more

582
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: I'm curious about what it actually looks like today. Can

583
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: you walk us through specifically? Now, you know, do you

584
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: have two food plots or is it ten food plots?

585
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,959
Speaker 1: Do you have you know, one major area of hinge cutting,

586
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: or is there six or how can you describe a

587
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: little more detail of what that now looks like, how

588
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: you actually implemented this magic triangle on your property? Yes, yes,

589
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: I can. Um. I started with I think a lot

590
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: of people went off in this direction. Early in the

591
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: food I planted a large food plot, not knowing any better. Okay,

592
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: and I'm going to say something of an anchor and

593
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: a half or so, which which I would now classify

594
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: as a destination food plot. And uh um, But I

595
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: have kept that food plot because the location's right. There's

596
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,479
Speaker 1: a lot of cover around, a lot of trees around it,

597
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: and I've changed the shape of it, and I've planted

598
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: some trees in it and and that sort of thing

599
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: to break it up and compartmentalize it. But this property

600
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: exists with I have a total by the time I

601
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: get my fall plantings in, there's probably about nine and

602
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: a half to ten acres of food on sixty seven

603
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: acres planted solely for deer. And out of that there's

604
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: about three and a half to four acres or what

605
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: I would deem destination food plots in an acre or

606
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: larger in size. And my largest up food plot is

607
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: probably about two and a half acres and then I

608
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: have an you know, I have a number of small

609
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: food plots, micro food plots, and I'm gonna say are

610
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: in the one of an acre to a third of

611
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: an acre in size, And basically the small food plots

612
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: are closest to the bedding areas to where the gray

613
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: cover is. And what I tried to do a stage

614
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: the deer from the in these bedding willcasions. If you

615
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: saw this property of magic, imagine looking down at a

616
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: property and in the center of the property is a

617
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: swamp and it's flow. It's more flooded timber than your

618
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 1: typical swamp. There's oaks and maples and small islands out

619
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 1: in there, so it's wood duck heaven, and so it's

620
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: got a bunch of fingers and points and things like

621
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 1: that in it. So anywhere you have a large peninsula,

622
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 1: I started creating these betting areas out into those peninsulas,

623
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 1: and then on the edge of where I would stop

624
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 1: the hinge cutting or stop the cutting process, then probably

625
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,479
Speaker 1: within twenty yards of that area, thirty yards of that area,

626
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: I have a small little micro food plot, but a

627
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: very well defined travel corridor where I would bring the

628
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: deer out of the bedding areas to the first small,

629
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: little micro food plot, and then you know, they travel

630
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 1: another six seventy five yards to another food plot, to

631
00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: another food plot, they may pass another bedding area, and

632
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: ultimately they reach the destination food plot. And that's really

633
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: how this property is set up. And I've pretty much

634
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: broken into like three segments. So imagine three three small properties,

635
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: all with that design, contained within this sixty seven acres

636
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: if that helps you understand it. What did you picture? Yeah,

637
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: what did you design first? The Did you put the

638
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: destination plot first and then design the rest of the

639
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: property around that, or did you find a betting area

640
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: and and and start from that end. Actually, you know,

641
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 1: I was working on the woods is before I was

642
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: planning food plot, so I actually developed the betting areas first,

643
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: and then it was a natural betting area to start with.

644
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I would you know, I would jump deer

645
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: in there, and not knowing any better at the time,

646
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 1: trying to hunt a spot in November, not understanding you know,

647
00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: I was going in the wrong time of the year

648
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: with a sec control, So I knew deer preferred this

649
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: particular peninsula. And to this day it is the greatest

650
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: betting peninsula on this property. So then from there, so

651
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: you had a betting area, and then did you create, um,

652
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: knowing that they're going to a destination food plot? Did

653
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: you are you able to basically influence deer movement between

654
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: this betting area and the the destination plot with these

655
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: micro plots in these other little thick areas in your

656
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: on your property. Yes, Dan, and that's exactly what happened.

657
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: And you know, throughout this process, I was planning trees.

658
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: I had different tree ages. You know, I had trees

659
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: there were three ft tall trees that were fifteen ft tall,

660
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: all these different diverse tree uh you know, species. And

661
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: then I would have areas open areas where I was

662
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 1: planning warm seas and grasses and one but I found

663
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 1: it I could take literally, you can take a five

664
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: acre section of a property and create these micro habitats

665
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 1: and deer socialization areas, areas that deer like to spend

666
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 1: a lot of time rubbing, scraping, showing off to each other.

667
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: Uh food, you know, there's betting clothes. There's half a

668
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: dozen small food plots. And then I was real specific

669
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: about mowing these these three foot wide travel corridor. I

670
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: really you know, I bought Now you call it a

671
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: d R field and brushmower, but at the time this

672
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: one was made by a company called uh Swisher and

673
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: it was a thirty inch wide walk behind brush hawk

674
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 1: and I probably bought that thirty years ago. And I

675
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: started connecting every food plot at every bedding area with

676
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: a thirty inch wide mode path through the woods, through

677
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: the hinge cuts, through the warm season grasses, through the

678
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 1: spruce trees that I planted. And I did it. I

679
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: never did in anything any path with any straight lines

680
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: to it. It was constantly winding. And what I in

681
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 1: the beginning it was a lot of times a mistake.

682
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: I'd cut a big tree at a tree tops. Oh shoot,

683
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: I gotta go around this. Well. I found that if

684
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: deer can't see a long distance, then they have to

685
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 1: walk down these these curving, winding trail systems to look

686
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: into the next food plot, or to come down on

687
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: the edge of a betting area. And you know, during

688
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: that seeking phase that we all love to hunt. Um,

689
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 1: I use this term compartmentalization, you know, Uh. I like

690
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: to take what was ten acres of a wide open

691
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: field and make it so deer can't see any more

692
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,399
Speaker 1: than thirty yards anywhere in there, no matter where they're at,

693
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 1: they could never see any more than twenty to thirty yards.

694
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: And I've said in a tree stand and watched the

695
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: same three and a half year old buck for four

696
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: hours wander all over seven acres and never leave that

697
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: area during the run. We're twenty years ago. He cut

698
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 1: across a wide open wheat field and went on to

699
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 1: the neighbors and was gone and just about forty seconds,

700
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: you know. So it was a real eye opener for me,

701
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: and um, I hope that that opens your or answers

702
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: your question for you. Yeah, so super interesting. I've actually

703
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 1: seen similar results on you know, one of my Michigan

704
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: properties where I did something kind of similar. There was

705
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,879
Speaker 1: just a great, big, wide open field of grass and

706
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 1: I went and added food plot screens around screen it

707
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: up into three different sections and then add some food

708
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: in between there. So, like you said, when you compartmentalize it,

709
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: you give a deer, you give deer incentive to to

710
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: travel more because they want to see what's in the

711
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: next one, or they wanted when they're moving, or in

712
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: a buck's case, you know, cruising checking for does that

713
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 1: time of year. Also, I think that that also provides

714
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: a greater level of security during daylight. It also reduces stress.

715
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: I think I've read a lot about how, you know,

716
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: for example, dope family groups will feel more stressed if

717
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 1: they're a whole bunch in one area versus split up

718
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: into their own separate, you know, more covered secure regions.

719
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: So there seems to be a lot of benefits to that.

720
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: But I'm kind of curious. You know, we we've heard

721
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 1: about all these changes you've made to your property, from

722
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: adding the betting areas, to the micro food plots, to

723
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: the destination food plots, and creating this core region where

724
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: there's so much activity um in addition to like an

725
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: example you just brought up there where you saw this

726
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: one buck use a small area for hours. Are there

727
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: any other tangible results? Now? What's what's been the the

728
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: end outcome now of all these changes when you when

729
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 1: you go out there during November or whatever, you know,

730
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: what are you seeing now? I'm kind of I kind

731
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: of asked this because I imagine the r V people

732
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: listening at home who live in Michigan or Pennsylvania and

733
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: New York and they have sixty acres or forty acres

734
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: and they're wondering, Okay, if I did this, what what

735
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: could I actually produce? Well here's uh, I will I

736
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: will give you. I'll tell you exactly what I've been

737
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 1: able to see and what I did produce. But I

738
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: want to put a disclaimer on there, and that is, uh,

739
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 1: all of these things ings on a small property mean

740
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: little to nothing in your ability to see dear on

741
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: a predictable basis unless you, as a hunter, really understand

742
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 1: scent control and also understand when and how to understand

743
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: and when not to inderstand and so so that's part

744
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: of what I teach each each one of my clients,

745
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 1: you know, is not only do I go through all

746
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: these habitat changes, but boy, I'll tell you if you want,

747
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,439
Speaker 1: if you really want this to work, because you're gonna

748
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: put all this time and energy into it, scent control

749
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: is highly important. And then you know, don't enter a

750
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: betting area the first week in November, first week of October. Okay,

751
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: you know, you know how everybody can't wait for October one,

752
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: you know, counting down the days. So what do they do.

753
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,240
Speaker 1: They get on their camouflage and they had their stands

754
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: hung sensed August and they go right into a betting area. Well,

755
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: you know, at that time of the year, it's really

756
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 1: really hard to get into a betting area in the

757
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 1: morning and beat the deer there because the really is

758
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 1: not happening yet. So I try to work with people

759
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: and pass what I know and let them know that

760
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: the more they know about dear biology, the better hunter

761
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: and land manager they're going to be. You know, there

762
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: are certain times of the year that you can enter

763
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: betting areas in the morning, and then there are certain

764
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: times of the year you can't. And and same with feeding,

765
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: you know, I can. I can tell you if I

766
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 1: had it to do over again, I would make some changes.

767
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,240
Speaker 1: But I've got so much invested in time and energy

768
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,320
Speaker 1: and and and creating these large food plots. One of

769
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 1: the things I learned, Uh, because I had such good

770
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: betting and such good habitat, I increased the deer population

771
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: on the property significantly. So then I couldn't hunt in

772
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: the mornings in octob were because no matter where I went,

773
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,439
Speaker 1: I was bumping deer. You know. Yeah, but it didn't

774
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: take me long ago. That's all right. I can deal

775
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: with that, you know. And uh, but I mean there

776
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 1: are good problems, but what But ultimately, you know, to

777
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: answer your question, what have I seen? Um, you know,

778
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 1: it's along with with developing this property, I went through

779
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 1: my own personal development of learning to pass year. And

780
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: you know, if you only hunt southern Michigan and you

781
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 1: know how many hunters as part of Michigan gets uh

782
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:27,280
Speaker 1: trying to trying to pass a hundred and twenty five inchineer.

783
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: At least for me, you know, I definitely had to

784
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: go through some steps to get there. Okay, but you know, um,

785
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: I've been able to do that, and I will tell

786
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 1: you that there he probably has not been a year

787
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: in the last ten or fifteen years that I've not

788
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:48,359
Speaker 1: had a say, one thirty five to one fifty ish

789
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 1: type buck around me multiple times. And there are days

790
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 1: that I have four or five of them. And that's

791
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: the beauty of the change that I've made on this

792
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: small property. So uh, um, you know, I would say

793
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 1: that anybody can do this if they put their heart

794
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:11,320
Speaker 1: into it and understand how important betting is and safe

795
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: zones you know the term sanctuary, and you know where

796
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 1: to walk when not to walk. Uh. You know, it's

797
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 1: it's all, you know, it's all tied into one another.

798
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 1: But anyone can have it. I've seen very small properties

799
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 1: right here in southern Michigan, say ten to eighteen acres

800
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: treated exactly the way I mentioned how I've handled my

801
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:38,240
Speaker 1: own and watched these landowners have very similar results. Yeah,

802
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, I want to make sure

803
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: that you know, for those listening that maybe aren't familiar

804
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: with the setting like where we're at, you know, those

805
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: kinds of results. Like even even if you just said

806
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: every year you see at least one buck that's over

807
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: one thirty, that's pretty incredible for most people in Michigan.

808
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: Just to see a buff like that, that's like a

809
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 1: once in a lifetime buck for some people around us.

810
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 1: Um and except for people that are working like you

811
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 1: are to manage these properties, or if you happen to

812
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: to live in an area near an area like that,

813
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: or have a great sanctuary or swamp or whatever it

814
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 1: might be. But there's of course there's some guys like

815
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: like Tan in Iowa where that's like an average Tuesday.

816
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, but in these situations, like to say

817
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: that you're saying multiple deer like that, I mean, that

818
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: is that's really impressive to me because I know, you know,

819
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: even for me, heck, I'm not seeing I'm not very

820
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: often seeing deer like that ever in that area. So

821
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 1: it really seems like there's there's proof in the pudding

822
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: to what you're doing. Um, and it's fascinating, you know,

823
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: It's yeah, you know, to this day, you know, I'm

824
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 1: constantly learning. I'm always trying something new. There's not a

825
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: year goes by that I don't come up with some

826
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: crazy idea. And and you know, my wife says, I'm

827
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 1: just absolute dear crazy the man. And uh, and I

828
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: usually give it about two or three years before I

829
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 1: will then um offer it to my lions. And uh.

830
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 1: I have just recently, I'm gonna say, in the last

831
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: two to three years, focused a lot with going into

832
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:14,720
Speaker 1: betting areas and and irregardless of how that betting area

833
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 1: is created, where whether it's a hinge cut, a combination

834
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: of select cut timber harvest and hinge cut, or say

835
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 1: a clear cut, or just say an early successional growth.

836
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: Maybe it was a field and it hasn't been planted

837
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,760
Speaker 1: in fifteen years, you know, when it starts with grass

838
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: and weeds and now you've got you know, all kinds

839
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: of different things including automolive growing in there. One of

840
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,800
Speaker 1: the things I've keyed in on are these small little

841
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: alcove openings within the bedding structure itself. And uh and

842
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: I go into those openings and I kill them with roundup.

843
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: I kill, I cut everything, and I kill everything. I

844
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 1: spray it, and then I come back and I seed

845
00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: it heavy with about sixty chicory in about durrain of

846
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 1: clover to actually have the kind of food that bucks

847
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: crave in November in a betting area because if you

848
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 1: understand what a deer goes through during the day, you

849
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,839
Speaker 1: know they bed, but they also they still feed, you know,

850
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 1: every hour and a half two hours they're up and

851
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: they've got to feed a little bit. So I've used

852
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 1: this philosophy to do this and my small property to

853
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 1: hold these bucks in my betting areas and keep them

854
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 1: close or they're not moving around and exposing themselves and

855
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: getting in trouble. And what I can tell you is

856
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 1: my Dame cameras and my last two years experience has

857
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 1: proved that it's working. Interesting, So then are you you're

858
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: holding those bucks there with these terrific betting areas have

859
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: both great covering, great food, but how are you taking

860
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: advantage of that from a hunting standpoint. Are you eventually

861
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: going into those betting areas during the rut or are

862
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,760
Speaker 1: you always hanging out of the sanctuary and hunting the edges.

863
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: I'm you know, it's a combination of two things. Um.

864
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,879
Speaker 1: But I will tell you that I cut a very

865
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:04,840
Speaker 1: really you'd have to see it to believe it. And

866
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 1: I just uh again, I'd love to have you come

867
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,959
Speaker 1: out here and see these sometimes. But I cut these

868
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:14,760
Speaker 1: very distinct travel corridors from the from the core section

869
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:18,959
Speaker 1: of the betting area through that opening and right out

870
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: past my hunting stand. And these travel corridors are from

871
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,800
Speaker 1: thirty inches to four ft wide. I've got trees cut

872
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: parallel on each side, not never thick enough to be

873
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: a wall, you know, you want it porous enough for

874
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 1: a deer and go right or left any time. It

875
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 1: has to have some overhead cover there. And I actually

876
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 1: plant that food all the way through, right up right

877
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 1: up that travel corridor, right up past the stand. Okay,

878
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: So they come out of their great bedding area, they

879
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 1: eat in that little clearing, and I basically give them

880
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 1: a freeway ramp right on to to the exit zone.

881
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,439
Speaker 1: That they want to head to, and it just gets

882
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 1: some you know, the those come in there and of

883
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 1: course eating brows, and you know, I'll cut a lot

884
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 1: of the small saplings right at ground level, and the

885
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: saplings of course will send up suckers, which is highly

886
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 1: nutritious because you've got a great root system there. So

887
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: that's great native brows. And so it's a combination of

888
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: a few things I do, but it really creates predictable

889
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: dear movement. Sounds like it. There's it's funny. You know,

890
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,800
Speaker 1: we have a lot of different guests on the show

891
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: who have all sorts of different experiences and the hunt

892
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 1: different areas and I can't remember I'm already forgetting maybe

893
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: maybe I mentioned this at the beginning of this show

894
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: with you, Dan, but I've come to just really get

895
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 1: a kick out of the very different ways of going

896
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: about this. And you know, there's some people like the

897
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: kind of a situation like yours, Jake, where you're able

898
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 1: to manage and manipulate and adjust a property, you know,

899
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 1: through your own work and time, and that's really fascinating

900
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,760
Speaker 1: and interesting. And then there's other people who maybe hunt

901
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: public lands somewhere where they can't manipulate the habitat at all,

902
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:01,839
Speaker 1: but they're hard work and they're strategy is put into Okay,

903
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:03,399
Speaker 1: how do I figure out what the deer are doing

904
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 1: right now, regardless of the habitat and try to take

905
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: advantage of that or take advantage of the hunters. And

906
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: there's there's something really cool about all those different ways,

907
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: and I appreciate all the different ways and I find

908
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 1: them so interesting. And and as you were, as you

909
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: were walking through how you're you know, setting up this

910
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: this line of travel you're creating for deer, I just

911
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:24,879
Speaker 1: got to thinking, Um, how I think there's something great

912
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 1: about all of them. And I love this idea of

913
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 1: how you're manipulating it. But I know some people will

914
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 1: hear this and say, ah, well, where's the hunting in that,

915
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 1: because he's just leading the deer right to him or

916
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 1: something like that. And I, personally, I think it's all

917
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: really interesting and fascinating. The different ways we go about

918
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 1: hunting is pretty cool. And I don't know I'm going

919
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: off on a tangent here, but I just started thinking

920
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: about this idea. I don't know if you have you

921
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 1: ever encountered that, Jacob. People not liking these types of

922
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 1: ways you're going about it, or or anything like that.

923
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: You know, occasionally I do, and and I will tell

924
00:50:55,160 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 1: you that anyone who was spent plus year this hunting

925
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: high pressure deer in southern Michigan will soon find out

926
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 1: that the reason I'm doing this. These deer are the

927
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 1: most challenging deer to kill. I think there isn't a

928
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: whole Midwest. I've met so many people from out of

929
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 1: state that came to Michigan and tried to and off

930
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 1: camera will say, I don't know how you kill those deers.

931
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 1: I'm still trying. Yeah, Dan, Dan would get a kick

932
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: out of it, you know, uh, because hey, let's face it.

933
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 1: You know, I've spent some time recently in Iowa and

934
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: northern Missouri, and you know, we're talking areas where there

935
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: maybe three or four miles and only one or two

936
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 1: bow hunters in an entire three or four miles. So

937
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 1: those deer are completely different deer. And then you take

938
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,760
Speaker 1: the kind of deer that you hunt mark in Michigan,

939
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 1: that I hunt here in Michigan. Um, they're dealing with

940
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:54,720
Speaker 1: fifteen plus bow hunters per square mile some areas, maybe

941
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: maybe much more than that. So these deer are on edge,

942
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,240
Speaker 1: and it doesn't take much pressure to have them leave,

943
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: you know, their safe zone and go somewhere else, or

944
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 1: just decide you're only going to move, you know at night.

945
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 1: You know a lot of people say, oh, they go nocturnal.

946
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 1: I think a lot of that has to do with us.

947
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 1: You know, we're our worst nightmare, you know, when it

948
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: comes to that. But so I've just tried to adapt

949
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 1: what works for me. But you're right, I have met

950
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: a few people that say, well, geez, you know, it

951
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 1: seems too easy. Well, isn't that the goal? I mean,

952
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 1: I'm real, I'm very ethically oriented as far as how

953
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: I take a deer, And for me, my biggest challenge

954
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: is how close can I get a mature Michigan deer

955
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: to me and still be able to take it with

956
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 1: a ball. And I've killed from three and a half

957
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 1: an older deer at less than ten yards, and a

958
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 1: lot of them at that ten to fifteen yards, And

959
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,799
Speaker 1: as you know, Mark, that's not an easy attack. Uh,

960
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:57,439
Speaker 1: to accomplish property in the world, that's still really challenging.

961
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: And I've probably killed three or four bucks you know

962
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 1: that would flirt with that to low one twenties. To

963
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:05,879
Speaker 1: low one thirties on the ground with a bow at

964
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: ten yards. Wow. And it's just it's just a blast.

965
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 1: I just so enjoy the chance. Now, Oh yeah, there's

966
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 1: something like I get a kick out of traveling to

967
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 1: bow hunt other areas. You know, it's totally different. You know,

968
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: when I go to Iowa or wherever, it's very different

969
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 1: and very fun in a certain kind of way. But

970
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 1: then it's also really fun to try to do it

971
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 1: here in Michigan where there are these inherent challenges that

972
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: are very different. Um And there's a different kind of

973
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 1: fun to all of it. So it definitely forces you

974
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 1: to learn and adjust try different things. Um And. And

975
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 1: I guess to that point, when we're talking about some

976
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:46,760
Speaker 1: of the different create things that you've created on your property, first,

977
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 1: one of the things I want to talk about was

978
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: your cover, how you're creating cover, because I've learned a

979
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 1: lot about creating cover from some of the things I've

980
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: seen you do on your videos and and talked about

981
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 1: hinge cutting in particular, something that seems to be something

982
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 1: you've really utilized well. And we've dabbled with it over

983
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 1: some episodes over the past couple of years, but never

984
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: really dive too deep into it. So it's curious, Jake,

985
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: could you walk us through exactly how to hinge cut

986
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 1: the right way, because I think I've been doing occasionally

987
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: the wrong way and I want to make sure that

988
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: I fixed that for the future. Yes, you know. And

989
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 1: and rather than get into the mechanics of hinge cutting,

990
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 1: because I think everybody, you know, there's so many videos

991
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 1: and pictures available. Uh you know, hey, you're you're cutting up.

992
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 1: You know. Basically, you're cutting to through the tree, depending

993
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 1: on the species, to get it to fall in the

994
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 1: direction you want it to fall and stay connected and

995
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,440
Speaker 1: stay alive. And even if the tree dies, if it

996
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: stays connected, then you can hinge additional trees across it.

997
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 1: And that becomes say what we call foundation tree to

998
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 1: create overhead living cover. And we're also letting sunlight into

999
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:59,760
Speaker 1: the ground, which creates early successional growth in the terms

1000
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:05,360
Speaker 1: of deer cover and and brows. Okay, you know, I

1001
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 1: think people don't realize how important brows for deer truly is.

1002
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:12,799
Speaker 1: So I'm a big proponent of early successional growth. But

1003
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 1: to kind of help the listeners understand why, and and

1004
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 1: this is clearly my opinion Okay, it's my years of

1005
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 1: watching and cutting and cutting on other people's properties. Well,

1006
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:27,879
Speaker 1: any time I look at a property, I always tell

1007
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: people this is the easiest way to understand it. Imagine

1008
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: you have just built a seventy acre pond. You want

1009
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 1: to plant walleyes, large mouth baths, northern play in. So

1010
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 1: now you're gonna put structure in there to fish form it, right,

1011
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 1: And so I literally go about creating structure on these

1012
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:50,800
Speaker 1: fifty to seventy acre properties. And one of the neatest

1013
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:54,240
Speaker 1: things that happens when you create a hinge cutting area

1014
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 1: is you have a spot where you quit hinge cutting,

1015
00:55:57,560 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 1: and then you have the existing woods, whether it's a

1016
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 1: closed canopy woods or medium age woods, and that's an edge.

1017
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 1: And a lot of hunters may not be able to

1018
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: see that edge until you show it to them. Then

1019
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 1: they go, oh yeah, I can definitely see that. And

1020
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a change in stem density, a change

1021
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: in in a tree age, and of course a change

1022
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 1: in the canopy. And that is where probably seventy of

1023
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 1: the deer movement takes place. So I use the edges,

1024
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I actually create my own pinch points with

1025
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 1: hinge cuts. You know, people say, well, I don't want

1026
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 1: to have any natural funnels, and I don't. We'll cripe

1027
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 1: you can make one, you know, give me a half

1028
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:34,799
Speaker 1: an hour with a chainsaw and I'll make you a

1029
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 1: good one, you know. And uh, it's just, you know,

1030
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:42,359
Speaker 1: it's really cool to manipulate deer movement and have them

1031
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 1: go where you want them to go. Because anybody has

1032
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 1: a small property has clearly got a lot of locations

1033
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 1: they can't easily get into and get out of without

1034
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: bumping deer. So if you can come up with the

1035
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: great location that's easy to get in with screening and

1036
00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 1: easy to get out of, then you can create you know,

1037
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 1: a up a larger hinge cutting area for betting, and

1038
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: then create pinch points and uh what you call neck

1039
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 1: down funnel areas with low cut trees that they don't

1040
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 1: bet under. Uh. But I hope that sort of answered

1041
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 1: the question. Uh. You know, ideally for dear betting, you're

1042
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 1: the canopy of the hinge cut has to be you know,

1043
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: pretty much chest to head high, because you want dear

1044
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 1: to be able to walk underneath, move around and lay

1045
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: down and within that hinge cutting where you're gonna have

1046
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 1: trees going in different directions. You've got to go back

1047
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 1: in there and cut trails for deer to move from

1048
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 1: one location of the hinge cut to another. You've done

1049
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 1: enough of up mark to know that when you start

1050
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 1: hinge cutting, like it or not, the top of that

1051
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 1: tree is gonna end up on the ground, right yep.

1052
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 1: And then you're gonna cut two or three other ones,

1053
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 1: and two or three of those trees are going to

1054
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 1: cross that tree that you hinged, and so you're definitely

1055
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 1: going within it hind cut. You're gonna have areas deer

1056
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 1: cannot move the tree tops are there, but you're also

1057
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: going to have areas where the trees cross each other,

1058
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 1: lay parallel to each other, um are being held up

1059
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 1: by the structure that you've created so that deer can

1060
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 1: move around safely underneath. And I think this goes back

1061
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 1: to what I observed many years ago when I told

1062
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 1: you the story about the feeder trees. It got been

1063
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 1: over by the ice. These deer really liked that overhead

1064
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 1: canopy and that's what really that's when the light bulb

1065
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 1: went off for me. So we just watched and that

1066
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 1: deer did this, you know, from a natural situation. So

1067
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 1: why not just start doing it myself. Makes sense now, Jake,

1068
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 1: There there seems to be two different camps that I've

1069
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 1: kind of encountered when it comes to, you know, creating

1070
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 1: or manipulating betting areas. There's some folks that like to

1071
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:51,240
Speaker 1: just create an area, a general region, and there's some

1072
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 1: people that like to have a region but then try

1073
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: to create actual individual beds that they think maybe a

1074
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 1: buck would use based on some criteria. Which do you

1075
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: do you believe in either one of those is better

1076
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 1: or the other? You know, I've had success with both. Um.

1077
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 1: I will tell you for myself when I create the

1078
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 1: what I call the Doll family betting group, and that

1079
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 1: that's going to be a large area because let's face it,

1080
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 1: dope families are multiple deer in the fall. Okay, you

1081
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 1: know you're gonna look at anywhere from seven to eleven

1082
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 1: adult doze and young fonds all betting together because there

1083
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: were really a related family groups. So that's going to

1084
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 1: take an area, say a quarter two half the three

1085
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 1: quarter of an acre of a hinge cut to create

1086
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 1: what I call these bedrooms for dear to bed in.

1087
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 1: But I may not go in there and clear out

1088
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 1: the individual areas. I'll go in and clear some areas

1089
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 1: and give them locations, but nothing like I will for

1090
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 1: isolated buck betting. And I may go to a hundred

1091
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: yards in that doe betting area and find a isolated

1092
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 1: point or peninsula and build a isolated betting location for

1093
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 1: one buck so that he can satellite that betting area.

1094
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 1: Because you know the stress that does put on bucks

1095
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 1: until the time is right, they really don't want a

1096
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 1: whole lot to do with each other. So I've I've

1097
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 1: had good luck with both, but I think on a

1098
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 1: small property, um, I have had probably better luck with

1099
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 1: the isolated you know, identifying these eight or nine locations

1100
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 1: I'm making just for buck betting, and then I've got

1101
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 1: these three or four locations I'm designating just for Doe

1102
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 1: family betting. And you know, more than likely here in

1103
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 1: southern Michigan, if you've got forty or more acres, you're

1104
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 1: gonna have one to maybe three different Doe family groups

1105
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 1: are not related. And that gets into that stress factor

1106
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 1: you mentioned a while ago. And that's the beauty of

1107
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 1: compartmentalization and having smaller food plots is now you can

1108
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 1: have unrelated dope family groups that compete and everybody see

1109
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:04,920
Speaker 1: them when they if anybody's watched them in food plots,

1110
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 1: for on say, bait piles, they stand on their iron

1111
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 1: legs and swat each other. So you can now you

1112
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 1: can not only you can take the same idea from

1113
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 1: how they treat each other in a feeding situation and

1114
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 1: do that in a betting location. You can produce enough

1115
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 1: isolated betting locations large enough for multiple deer for these

1116
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: these family groups to each have their own spot. Now

1117
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean they won't rotate from one to the other.

1118
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 1: And you know, because when I mean, there's so many

1119
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 1: factors involved, I mean, like I said, I I run

1120
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 1: cameras and I test stuff all the time, and I

1121
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:43,280
Speaker 1: note everything from barametric pressure to wind direction. So you know,

1122
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:45,840
Speaker 1: you might have a Dolle family group of seven. Uh

1123
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 1: you know, a total of seven Antler list deer betting

1124
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 1: in one area today and tomorrow the wind direction is

1125
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 1: completely opposite, and the temperatures are different. And now they're

1126
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: betting forty yards away facing a different direction entering and exiting.

1127
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 1: I'm a different direction. Uh. So I love to build

1128
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 1: a hotel Hilton for a hundred guests, and uh, you know,

1129
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: a hundred rooms, but I'll let those thirty guests pick

1130
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 1: the rooms. Okay, it's good analogy. Yeah, no, cremit if

1131
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:19,760
Speaker 1: I'm wrong, Jake. But for most of the things I've

1132
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:22,400
Speaker 1: seen and heard from others when you're trying to when

1133
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 1: you're thinking about dough betting areas versus buckbetting areas, most

1134
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:29,680
Speaker 1: of the time, when you relate it to a food source,

1135
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 1: you're gonna have the doughs betted or creating your doughebetting

1136
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 1: group closer to the food source and then typically a

1137
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 1: buck would be back behind that doe betting group even

1138
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:40,600
Speaker 1: further back into the cover. Would you say that's accurate?

1139
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 1: Is that how you typically go about trying to create

1140
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: these You know that that's a pretty accurate standard. Uh, analogy?

1141
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:52,439
Speaker 1: It is it is marked um other than UM. Time

1142
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 1: of the year can have a big impact on that. UM.

1143
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 1: If we have really cold weather and deep snow, these

1144
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:03,200
Speaker 1: doughs are gonna move so close to the food then

1145
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 1: they're going to literally be right on the edge of it.

1146
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 1: And so part of my holistic plan for every property

1147
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 1: is winter thermal cover, which is going to be in

1148
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 1: the form of Norway spruce and white pine or a

1149
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 1: mixture of both up close to the food, so that

1150
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:20,960
Speaker 1: you don't really expect those does to be betting in

1151
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:24,440
Speaker 1: there in mid October, but you would in mid December.

1152
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:28,200
Speaker 1: But what you're getting at is, yes, I like the

1153
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 1: bucks farther back, and I like the does and a

1154
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 1: designated you know. So so you stage where these deer

1155
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:37,200
Speaker 1: are betting, You've got a layer of buck betting areas

1156
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 1: and a layer of dough betting areas, and then of

1157
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:43,000
Speaker 1: course you've got the food. Okay, interesting, So I'm curious

1158
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 1: Dan over there, what are your thoughts on this? This

1159
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 1: is a little bit different than your situation back home, right, Um,

1160
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:52,320
Speaker 1: I mean I got a lot of questions. But in

1161
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 1: regards to the different locations of the dough verse buck

1162
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 1: betting areas, Um, you know, you mentioned a smaller type

1163
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 1: of betting area for a buck. But is there anything

1164
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:09,840
Speaker 1: different that you're doing, you know? Or are you still

1165
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:12,840
Speaker 1: hinge cutting, are you still you know, clearing some areas

1166
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:16,959
Speaker 1: out or are there two different things that you're doing,

1167
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 1: one for dough and one for buck. Um? In general terms,

1168
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:26,440
Speaker 1: the process is quite identical. But I will tell you

1169
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 1: that the isolated buck bed is generally gonna be three

1170
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 1: or four trees hinge cut in a tight isolated area,

1171
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:40,439
Speaker 1: and I'm going to create, uh, I'm going to create

1172
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 1: an area for one deer to bed. I'm going to

1173
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:47,200
Speaker 1: cut a number of logs what I call backstops, that

1174
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 1: are going to be eighteen to two inches in diameter

1175
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:53,760
Speaker 1: and four ft long, so that I can set some

1176
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,560
Speaker 1: of those logs ay on the north side of where

1177
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:58,400
Speaker 1: you would bed and then some on the south and

1178
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 1: the southwest side, so that depending on the prevailing wind,

1179
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 1: he can put his back up against that, you know,

1180
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 1: and look look down wind and then smell what he

1181
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 1: can't see from behind his back. And then what I

1182
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 1: will do is I will hinge cut a number of

1183
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:16,680
Speaker 1: trees around this bedding area low to create what I

1184
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 1: call fringe cover, so that when he's bedded in there

1185
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:23,840
Speaker 1: all by himself, uh, he feels like he's not out

1186
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:26,120
Speaker 1: in the open. Okay, you know it's a small enough

1187
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:28,280
Speaker 1: you know, you're really talking about doing a ten by

1188
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 1: ten area, you know, if you're trying to give you know,

1189
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 1: provide a dimension, you know, tend to ten to fifteen

1190
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 1: feet long tent or you know, three or four trees

1191
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 1: hinge cut creating a really nice oval of that's fort

1192
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 1: to five ft long. And and I actually flat I

1193
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 1: use a shovel, and I flattened him out. I cut

1194
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 1: every tree, every twig, and I also put about four

1195
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:53,160
Speaker 1: inches of pine needles in him. And I just like

1196
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:57,480
Speaker 1: it was my lab laying down. And I've had the

1197
01:05:57,640 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 1: best of luck with him. I mean I've I've gotten

1198
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 1: know and a lot of bucks using them, you know,

1199
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 1: going there, and the investigate and the hairs everywhere, and

1200
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 1: I've I've found some real nice antlers in these beds

1201
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 1: in the wintertime. And so so you know, the buck

1202
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:18,240
Speaker 1: bed is small and by itself, and and and Dan

1203
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:20,840
Speaker 1: had to help you a little bit. You know, one

1204
01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:23,480
Speaker 1: thing we didn't talk about is topography. If you're in

1205
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:28,439
Speaker 1: areas of rain change, say forty to fifty ft train

1206
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:32,080
Speaker 1: change and ravines and things like that, then you you

1207
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:34,919
Speaker 1: deal with a little bit differently because there's what's called

1208
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:38,440
Speaker 1: the military crest where you've got a point and then

1209
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 1: it drops off pretty steep on the end of that point,

1210
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 1: and that buck typically likes to be right out there

1211
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 1: just before it drops off. And then the larger, more

1212
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:52,000
Speaker 1: flat region fifty yards backwards on that point where it's

1213
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 1: more flat, that's where the dose bet So does that

1214
01:06:55,520 --> 01:07:00,320
Speaker 1: kind of explain things for you? Dan? Yeah? Yeah? What

1215
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 1: what else you got, Danny? Get last questions? I I

1216
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:05,400
Speaker 1: want to make sure that we're getting this different perspective

1217
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:07,600
Speaker 1: because I've done a lot of this habitat work and

1218
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:09,760
Speaker 1: I'm kind of a similar situation to Jake. But I

1219
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 1: always want to make sure, you know, for people in

1220
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:14,360
Speaker 1: your situation that might be looking at this from a different,

1221
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:19,640
Speaker 1: different viewpoint. So you know, you're talking about your your

1222
01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 1: property is you know, over sixty five acres? I Mark,

1223
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:24,920
Speaker 1: I don't know what your property is. How big is

1224
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 1: your farm in Michigan that you hunt on? The main

1225
01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:35,440
Speaker 1: farming hunts is cover So dropping it down all the

1226
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:40,760
Speaker 1: way to like a ten acre piece or uh, you know,

1227
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 1: or a twenty acre piece. Obviously, people who own those

1228
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:48,320
Speaker 1: type of you know that number, those number of acres

1229
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:52,680
Speaker 1: have less room to work with. But are you can

1230
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:57,440
Speaker 1: you relate those property or those principles to a smaller

1231
01:07:57,480 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 1: piece just on a smaller scale or is there are

1232
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:03,200
Speaker 1: there things more things that you have to consider, like

1233
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:07,640
Speaker 1: neighboring properties, when you know, putting a plan together for

1234
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 1: your actual piece absolutely, you know, up the neighbors and

1235
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 1: depending on the neighbor, uh, and what's going on on

1236
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:18,679
Speaker 1: the neighbor's property. Key to make it, you know, work

1237
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 1: really well or make it almost impossible. You know, if

1238
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 1: you happen to have a UH and I say, you know, um,

1239
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:29,519
Speaker 1: a neighbor that's uh. You say, he's got forty five

1240
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:32,440
Speaker 1: of his buddies there every weekend and they're shooting their pistols.

1241
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:36,280
Speaker 1: Probably not a good place to put betting, you know,

1242
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:38,920
Speaker 1: and believe it. Then I've I've run into these situations

1243
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:43,160
Speaker 1: in this business. And uh. But ideally, you know, say

1244
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:46,040
Speaker 1: say maybe you've got a neighbor and he's interested in hunting,

1245
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 1: and he's got four or five tree stands right along

1246
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 1: your property border, you know, And I think that's a

1247
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 1: normal Michigan scenario. People run into that. So you have

1248
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:59,720
Speaker 1: to look at well, you know, how can I how

1249
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:02,720
Speaker 1: can I developed the property and be strategic and be

1250
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 1: somewhat competitive? How can I get these bucks older? Maybe

1251
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:09,360
Speaker 1: that neighbor shoots the first He doesn't care about deer

1252
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 1: age structures, so he shoots the first year and a

1253
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:13,559
Speaker 1: half hold that comes across the fence, or a long

1254
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:16,280
Speaker 1: sense or whatever. So there's things you have to do

1255
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 1: as far as where you established the betting areas. Uh,

1256
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:22,519
Speaker 1: screening is a great you know, it is a great

1257
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 1: tool that I use, you know. So, so in the

1258
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:29,280
Speaker 1: process of hinge cutting, there's a number of different heights

1259
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:32,280
Speaker 1: that you hinge cut depending on the purpose you want

1260
01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:35,080
Speaker 1: to use them. You know, betting is a high hinge cut.

1261
01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:37,840
Speaker 1: Screening is a low hinge cut. You're literally building. You

1262
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:41,440
Speaker 1: imagine building a fence with trees that are laying sideways,

1263
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:45,920
Speaker 1: and of course deer won't bed underneath trees if there's

1264
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:48,600
Speaker 1: no not sufficient room for them to bed. So you

1265
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 1: can create great screening, get sunlight in there and get

1266
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:54,599
Speaker 1: early successional growth, and maybe create a wall and then

1267
01:09:55,160 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 1: forty yards from that wall deeper into your property than

1268
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 1: you build a betting area, so that then a lot

1269
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 1: of the deer movement is far their away from the

1270
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:08,599
Speaker 1: neighbor's property. But every property depending on topography. Uh, you know,

1271
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:12,519
Speaker 1: the all important water. I can't say that enough how

1272
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:16,479
Speaker 1: important water on the property is. And the natural water

1273
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:18,360
Speaker 1: is great, but if you don't have it. I've seen

1274
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:21,679
Speaker 1: some creative guys that I've worked with that have done

1275
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:25,320
Speaker 1: everything from the small plastic tubs to thinking a well

1276
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:28,759
Speaker 1: and you know, investing some money in creating a natural

1277
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:31,120
Speaker 1: pond and that type of thing. But but water is

1278
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:34,080
Speaker 1: definitely important for deer. They've got to have it, and

1279
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 1: it creates edges and monocultures that you're just not going

1280
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:42,800
Speaker 1: to get without it. But any small property can be

1281
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:46,479
Speaker 1: tuned in, you know, to literally know where the deer

1282
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:49,519
Speaker 1: are betting and know where they're feeding. And then it's

1283
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:54,160
Speaker 1: up today landowner to be disciplined enough to not hunt

1284
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 1: when it's the wrong time of the year and enter

1285
01:10:56,400 --> 01:10:58,360
Speaker 1: an exit at the right time. And of course you've

1286
01:10:58,920 --> 01:11:02,519
Speaker 1: sent control all right now, Before we move on to

1287
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:04,720
Speaker 1: the next question, we do need to take a very

1288
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,440
Speaker 1: quick break for word from our sponsors of this episode,

1289
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 1: the White Tail Institute of North America, and today we've

1290
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 1: got a few quick tips from White Tail Institute employee

1291
01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:17,360
Speaker 1: John Cooner in regards to perennial food plot. So, first, John,

1292
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:23,200
Speaker 1: what's the difference between perennials and annuals. Okay, Perennials are

1293
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:27,720
Speaker 1: basically plants that are products. They're designed to last for

1294
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:32,000
Speaker 1: more than one calendar year from a single planning uh.

1295
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:36,280
Speaker 1: The annuals are plants that are designed will last for

1296
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:39,240
Speaker 1: for part part of one calendar year from stay for instance,

1297
01:11:39,240 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 1: from spring through summer, or from you know, during hunting

1298
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:45,720
Speaker 1: season or through winter fall to spring, that sort of thing.

1299
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:48,320
Speaker 1: So then how do you choose the right perennial option

1300
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:51,719
Speaker 1: for your own plot? Right? There are so many options

1301
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 1: out there to choose from, it can really bottle the mind.

1302
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:58,479
Speaker 1: Of course, you know, you can talk to your friends.

1303
01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 1: They'll tell you what works well for them in your area. Uh.

1304
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:03,720
Speaker 1: You go to a farm supply store, they will be

1305
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:06,840
Speaker 1: able to tell you different kind of seeds. Uh, they

1306
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:09,679
Speaker 1: are appropriate for a certain planning time, like cool season

1307
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:13,760
Speaker 1: or warm season. Our products run a run a very

1308
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:16,640
Speaker 1: broad gamut. Uh, it's very easy to select the right

1309
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:18,760
Speaker 1: product with ours. We've got a little product selector on

1310
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 1: our website, and we design our products uh other almost

1311
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:26,920
Speaker 1: entirely blends because it's rare to find, if ever, you

1312
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 1: find one plant variety that does everything you wanted to

1313
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:35,479
Speaker 1: in terms of attraction, nutrition, longevity, fast growth. So we

1314
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:39,920
Speaker 1: use compatible forages of different types and then test them

1315
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:43,479
Speaker 1: individually and together to see which one's which one's give

1316
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:46,800
Speaker 1: us the best over broad performance. You know, we get

1317
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:49,960
Speaker 1: calls sometimes people say, you know, what's your best product? Uh?

1318
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:52,600
Speaker 1: And my answer is always what's the sight like? Is

1319
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:54,400
Speaker 1: it a good soil or is it a light so one?

1320
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 1: Is it something you can get into with equipment or not?

1321
01:12:57,000 --> 01:12:59,000
Speaker 1: Is it slope? Is it not slope? Do you want

1322
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:00,800
Speaker 1: a perennial, do you want an annual? You have to

1323
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:03,880
Speaker 1: run through those factors uh to get to get a

1324
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:06,599
Speaker 1: really good answer. And that's what that product selector does does.

1325
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 1: It's a little program I wrote, and I remember when

1326
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:11,679
Speaker 1: I did it. I was thinking, you know, I could

1327
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:13,160
Speaker 1: look at the food plot and I know in half

1328
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:15,280
Speaker 1: a second when I'm gonna put in there. I thought, well,

1329
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:17,240
Speaker 1: how do I know that? I realized what I'm doing

1330
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:20,040
Speaker 1: is taking all of our products and putting them into

1331
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 1: a mental bucket, excuse me, and then running through a

1332
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:26,800
Speaker 1: series of short questions about three or four in a

1333
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:30,439
Speaker 1: certain order and calling things out as I go. And

1334
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:32,320
Speaker 1: when I get to the end, I have water, maybe

1335
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 1: steven several forges their ideal for that will produce optimum

1336
01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:39,759
Speaker 1: performance in that specific situation that's soil type and slow

1337
01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:43,240
Speaker 1: equipment access, time of the year and all that. If

1338
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:45,599
Speaker 1: you'd like to learn more about white Tail Institute perennial

1339
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:48,479
Speaker 1: food plot options or to check out that product selecting tool,

1340
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:52,679
Speaker 1: you can visit white Tail Institute dot com. And now

1341
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:55,280
Speaker 1: let's get back to this show. So we've talked about

1342
01:13:55,400 --> 01:13:57,839
Speaker 1: we've talked about, you know, two corners of this triangle

1343
01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:00,800
Speaker 1: you brought from beginning the betting the water just a

1344
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 1: little bit here. What about some of the food tactics

1345
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:06,080
Speaker 1: that you use on these small properties, whether it be

1346
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:08,559
Speaker 1: your own or your clients. Do you have any advice

1347
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:11,600
Speaker 1: for small property owners when it comes to trying to

1348
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:15,360
Speaker 1: establish a food source or improve food sources or anything

1349
01:14:15,360 --> 01:14:19,840
Speaker 1: like that. Um, you know, Uh, it's kind of a

1350
01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:22,760
Speaker 1: big subject about trying come go through it pretty quick.

1351
01:14:22,800 --> 01:14:27,519
Speaker 1: I guess, if if I had my choice, I always

1352
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:31,800
Speaker 1: tell the property owner to focus on cover because if

1353
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:35,120
Speaker 1: you focus on your cover, you're gonna produce way more

1354
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 1: food than the landowner realizes at the time. You know,

1355
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 1: Woody Browse uh pretty much. Uh, you know, is responsible

1356
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:50,800
Speaker 1: for about of a deer's daily diet. So if you're

1357
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 1: good with creating early successional growth, you're producing a food plot.

1358
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:57,600
Speaker 1: You just don't know it, okay, Um, Depending on the

1359
01:14:57,680 --> 01:15:01,040
Speaker 1: soil conditions, you know, you can have the greatest food

1360
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:04,559
Speaker 1: plots in the world when you have uh, you know,

1361
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:08,960
Speaker 1: good loamy soil with with great nutrients in it. And

1362
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:14,759
Speaker 1: then I also see by that it's yellow blow sand,

1363
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:16,880
Speaker 1: you know, and and uh, you know, they can't get

1364
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:19,080
Speaker 1: they can't get a weed to grow in it, you know.

1365
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 1: And when it does rain, it's you know, the moisture

1366
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:23,639
Speaker 1: is gone and just a day or two. So it's

1367
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:27,160
Speaker 1: a lot of work to grow good food. So you know,

1368
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:30,639
Speaker 1: so the soil has so much to do with your

1369
01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:34,559
Speaker 1: success when it comes to growing a food plot. So um,

1370
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:39,040
Speaker 1: I like to have a destination food plot with you

1371
01:15:39,080 --> 01:15:43,880
Speaker 1: know again and attractive food source and that could be

1372
01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:48,720
Speaker 1: you know, anything from turn ups. Nebraska's a mixture of

1373
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:53,919
Speaker 1: boat and I also want multiple small micro food plots

1374
01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:57,800
Speaker 1: that go from that destination food plot back towards the

1375
01:15:57,880 --> 01:16:02,080
Speaker 1: bedding area. And it's some wearing between those micro plots

1376
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:05,000
Speaker 1: and the destination food plot where you're hunting. Setups are

1377
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:07,120
Speaker 1: going to be to take advantage of that deer movement

1378
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:10,799
Speaker 1: from betting where they stage and go from one small

1379
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:14,600
Speaker 1: plot to the next and eventually they hit the destination

1380
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:18,920
Speaker 1: food plot just before dark by minutes before dark. That's

1381
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:21,439
Speaker 1: the idea. That doesn't always work that way, but generally

1382
01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:23,960
Speaker 1: that's how it works. Yeah, what are your thoughts on

1383
01:16:24,479 --> 01:16:27,599
Speaker 1: positioning of these food plots on a small property? You know,

1384
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:29,320
Speaker 1: my my intuition, and what I've seen a lot of

1385
01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:31,640
Speaker 1: times is people talk about, you know, trying to have

1386
01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:33,920
Speaker 1: these food plots away from the edges, more towards the

1387
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:36,559
Speaker 1: center portion of your property. But then are you're more

1388
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:38,600
Speaker 1: at risk of your neighbors blown out betting areas if

1389
01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:40,559
Speaker 1: you're betting areas are on the outsides. You know, if

1390
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:43,040
Speaker 1: you could pick the perfect scenario, or if you could

1391
01:16:43,080 --> 01:16:45,719
Speaker 1: create this perfect scenario, how would you like to position

1392
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:48,040
Speaker 1: these things? Well, I'll tell you what. You know, you

1393
01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:51,920
Speaker 1: go back twenty thirty years ago, the few people that

1394
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:56,519
Speaker 1: were talking about managing properties then always talked about putting

1395
01:16:56,520 --> 01:16:58,640
Speaker 1: the sanctuary in the center of the property and the

1396
01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:02,519
Speaker 1: food along the out side. So imagine that you've got

1397
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:06,200
Speaker 1: deer in the center of your property now heading in

1398
01:17:06,240 --> 01:17:09,840
Speaker 1: a direction to leave your property right at dark. And

1399
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:13,200
Speaker 1: I would just as soon, especially with small properties, put

1400
01:17:13,240 --> 01:17:16,599
Speaker 1: all the bedding along the outside edges of the property

1401
01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:22,320
Speaker 1: and put the micro food plots around, say the interior

1402
01:17:22,920 --> 01:17:25,160
Speaker 1: one half of the property, and then the center of

1403
01:17:25,160 --> 01:17:28,240
Speaker 1: the property is where the destination food plot is. So

1404
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:32,800
Speaker 1: then the deer are staged bedding along the outside perimeters

1405
01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:35,919
Speaker 1: of your property, moving towards the center of your property

1406
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:39,759
Speaker 1: right at dark. And that way they're not moving across

1407
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:43,080
Speaker 1: your your fence, going over to your neighbors. And if

1408
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:45,680
Speaker 1: you know, if you're trying to say maybe get that

1409
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:47,160
Speaker 1: two and a half year old for a three and

1410
01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:48,760
Speaker 1: a half class, or to get that three and a

1411
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:51,360
Speaker 1: half year old to four and a half, because that's

1412
01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:55,360
Speaker 1: your goals, you'll have better luck doing that. And that's

1413
01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:59,240
Speaker 1: a lot of my property is set up that way.

1414
01:17:59,280 --> 01:18:05,519
Speaker 1: I actually had of a a property border where I've

1415
01:18:05,560 --> 01:18:10,200
Speaker 1: had a few years of problems people hunting on the

1416
01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:13,320
Speaker 1: line hunting. I caught them hunting in my stands, and

1417
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:16,200
Speaker 1: it's it's it's the farthest edge for me to reach

1418
01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:18,840
Speaker 1: the property, so it's hard for me to get there.

1419
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:21,280
Speaker 1: I don't hunt all that often, but it's a good location.

1420
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:25,439
Speaker 1: And ultimately what I did was I took that entire

1421
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:28,519
Speaker 1: property border and hinge cut it and turned it into

1422
01:18:28,600 --> 01:18:30,599
Speaker 1: bedding and thick cover. It's the best thing I ever

1423
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:34,519
Speaker 1: did interesting. So, speaking of those types of issues, you

1424
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:36,880
Speaker 1: talked about the challenge of getting a buck from two

1425
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:40,320
Speaker 1: to three or one to three or four and then

1426
01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:43,120
Speaker 1: dealing with, you know, neighbors that might have different goals

1427
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:46,160
Speaker 1: or whatever it is when it comes to small properties.

1428
01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:48,280
Speaker 1: Have you do you have any advice for those people

1429
01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:50,679
Speaker 1: that are trying to get those older age class bucks

1430
01:18:50,680 --> 01:18:53,439
Speaker 1: other than some of the habitats. Have you found there's

1431
01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:57,280
Speaker 1: any relationship things or other ways to go about, you know,

1432
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:00,640
Speaker 1: better being able to implement the age of quality of

1433
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:03,559
Speaker 1: your management. Well, I mean, there's no doubt that one

1434
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:05,400
Speaker 1: of the best things you can do is talk to

1435
01:19:05,439 --> 01:19:09,160
Speaker 1: your neighbors and and try to establish just a friendly

1436
01:19:10,240 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 1: rapport with Hey, this is what I'm doing, and I'm

1437
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:17,040
Speaker 1: I'd really like to hunt older age class dear and

1438
01:19:17,080 --> 01:19:20,400
Speaker 1: see where they stand. Okay, And as you know, Mark,

1439
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:22,880
Speaker 1: and you probably know a lot about these two dan

1440
01:19:23,240 --> 01:19:26,439
Speaker 1: uh Deer Management co ops are really popular here in

1441
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:30,599
Speaker 1: Michigan for that reason, and we have one established in

1442
01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:34,639
Speaker 1: this area. But I can tell you, as great as

1443
01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:37,000
Speaker 1: this property is that I own right here, I do

1444
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:41,560
Speaker 1: not have one property owner that borders me that practices

1445
01:19:42,680 --> 01:19:46,160
Speaker 1: or participates in this deer management co Op. So the

1446
01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:49,920
Speaker 1: most impressive thing about my property is at sixty seven

1447
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:53,439
Speaker 1: acres and I'm consistently growing deer four and a half

1448
01:19:53,439 --> 01:19:56,519
Speaker 1: and five and a half years old and sixty seven acres.

1449
01:19:57,280 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 1: And this is my takeaway from it. Um, I've been

1450
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:05,680
Speaker 1: doing this long enough that these young button bucks that

1451
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:08,479
Speaker 1: are born here or that say they're a year and

1452
01:20:08,479 --> 01:20:11,920
Speaker 1: a half old and they dispersed to this property. However

1453
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:14,120
Speaker 1: they end up here, they find out in a really

1454
01:20:14,120 --> 01:20:17,240
Speaker 1: short amount of time that it's really dangerous outside of

1455
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:21,120
Speaker 1: my property borders and really a great place to live inside.

1456
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:24,320
Speaker 1: And some of my target bucks I get the biggest

1457
01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:28,880
Speaker 1: kick out of because I strategically put uh my game

1458
01:20:28,920 --> 01:20:32,360
Speaker 1: cameras to watch these bucks movement patterns before I go

1459
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:34,920
Speaker 1: in and hunt stands at that you know, magic ten

1460
01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:37,519
Speaker 1: days out of the year, and I will notice these

1461
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:40,840
Speaker 1: bucks will spend all day on the property, leave the

1462
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:45,839
Speaker 1: property after dark, and come back onto the property before daylight.

1463
01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:49,120
Speaker 1: And so what you're doing is is you can't save

1464
01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:51,000
Speaker 1: them all. Some are gonna cross and they're gonna get

1465
01:20:51,000 --> 01:20:54,120
Speaker 1: shot by the neighbors. That's that's the reality of hunting

1466
01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:56,720
Speaker 1: in southern Michigan. But you know what, a few of

1467
01:20:56,720 --> 01:20:58,599
Speaker 1: them are gonna make it. And those are the ones

1468
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:00,519
Speaker 1: I call them homeboys, And those are the ones you

1469
01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:03,760
Speaker 1: can you can personally watch at game camera data on

1470
01:21:04,120 --> 01:21:06,639
Speaker 1: and take the risk and say, you know what, I've never,

1471
01:21:07,439 --> 01:21:09,519
Speaker 1: I've never. You know, you can't kill a one fifty

1472
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:15,120
Speaker 1: if you kill a one forties, right. Yeah. So actually,

1473
01:21:15,200 --> 01:21:18,760
Speaker 1: last the last muzzleoading season, I did that with a

1474
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:21,320
Speaker 1: buck here that I actually targeted and had been watching

1475
01:21:21,400 --> 01:21:24,560
Speaker 1: him from the house and went out with my muzzleloader,

1476
01:21:25,560 --> 01:21:27,080
Speaker 1: and you know, my wife had been watching him with

1477
01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:28,960
Speaker 1: an ox man. You want to go kill him? He's

1478
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:31,840
Speaker 1: he's a really nice eight point. I'm definitely in the

1479
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:35,919
Speaker 1: mid one thirties. He might have been low one. And anyways,

1480
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:38,000
Speaker 1: he came out just like he was supposed to, walk

1481
01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:41,120
Speaker 1: right in front of me, and I didn't kill him

1482
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:43,320
Speaker 1: because I looked at him. And you know what, muzzle

1483
01:21:43,360 --> 01:21:45,040
Speaker 1: oder season is going to be over in a couple

1484
01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:48,240
Speaker 1: of days, and imagine why he'd be next year if

1485
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:51,400
Speaker 1: he makes it. And sure he made it, that's tough

1486
01:21:51,439 --> 01:21:55,519
Speaker 1: to do in Michigan right there. You know, I guess

1487
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:58,280
Speaker 1: the one thing I'd add to this mark is and

1488
01:21:58,320 --> 01:22:02,400
Speaker 1: you've probably heard this, but it is true. We all

1489
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:07,040
Speaker 1: need to have realistic expectations. If you've got a forty

1490
01:22:07,160 --> 01:22:10,160
Speaker 1: or nine are property and you've got a bunch of

1491
01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:14,440
Speaker 1: neighbors that, for whatever reason just do not want to cooperate,

1492
01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:17,559
Speaker 1: and the best years getting on game camera and visual

1493
01:22:17,600 --> 01:22:21,880
Speaker 1: observation is a hundred and fifteen inch two and a

1494
01:22:21,960 --> 01:22:24,439
Speaker 1: half year old, then that probably should be your goals

1495
01:22:24,439 --> 01:22:29,080
Speaker 1: for deer harvest. And if you're lucky enough though to

1496
01:22:29,160 --> 01:22:31,439
Speaker 1: be able to get the occasional three and a half

1497
01:22:31,720 --> 01:22:33,200
Speaker 1: and that's what I try to do. I try to

1498
01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:36,120
Speaker 1: hunt the top five percent of the deer herd, you know,

1499
01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:38,320
Speaker 1: whatever I've got that showed up on camera, and I

1500
01:22:38,360 --> 01:22:41,200
Speaker 1: get a good a good inventory of them, then I go, okay,

1501
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:44,759
Speaker 1: these these two, these three deer, these are on my hitlist.

1502
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 1: Nothing else is on the hit list. I'm letting everything

1503
01:22:47,280 --> 01:22:50,240
Speaker 1: else go. And if the neighbors kill them, and hey

1504
01:22:50,280 --> 01:22:52,439
Speaker 1: it does. I I see deer that I get pictures of,

1505
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:54,880
Speaker 1: and I've got you know, I've got a family that

1506
01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:58,560
Speaker 1: lives right next to me, and they do not participate

1507
01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:01,519
Speaker 1: in passing young bucks. So I see some really nice

1508
01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:03,400
Speaker 1: young bucks that I get pictures of and then they

1509
01:23:03,439 --> 01:23:05,240
Speaker 1: call me and tell me they got a six point hanging.

1510
01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:07,000
Speaker 1: Then I go over and go, oh, yeah, I know that, dear.

1511
01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:11,559
Speaker 1: You know, but it's there, you know, in the grand

1512
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:13,559
Speaker 1: scheme of things. It's just one or two, dear. And

1513
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:16,519
Speaker 1: I think that's probably another good piece of advice. I

1514
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:20,800
Speaker 1: think people overthink it and get too worried about it. Um,

1515
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:22,840
Speaker 1: you know what you're if you do things right and

1516
01:23:22,960 --> 01:23:25,360
Speaker 1: you you focus on what you can control, not what

1517
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:27,800
Speaker 1: you can't control, and I think you know, you're going

1518
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:31,200
Speaker 1: to be just a lot more successful and just really

1519
01:23:31,400 --> 01:23:33,519
Speaker 1: have a lot more time and enjoy what you're doing

1520
01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:36,400
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, it's great advice for for all of us,

1521
01:23:36,439 --> 01:23:39,400
Speaker 1: whether we're in situations like this, you know, with so

1522
01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:41,919
Speaker 1: many of their hunters right around us, or or anywhere,

1523
01:23:42,200 --> 01:23:45,800
Speaker 1: you know, having having the right expectations and having fun

1524
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:49,400
Speaker 1: with it. That's that's an important takeaway from every conversation

1525
01:23:49,439 --> 01:23:53,120
Speaker 1: about dear Hunter. Now, I thank you. I've got another

1526
01:23:53,200 --> 01:23:56,480
Speaker 1: question for you, uh, kind of related to my situation

1527
01:23:56,520 --> 01:23:58,280
Speaker 1: in Michigan at least, the way I go about hunting

1528
01:23:58,280 --> 01:24:01,679
Speaker 1: in Michigan is that I am very very particular about

1529
01:24:02,040 --> 01:24:04,760
Speaker 1: when I hunt and how often I hunt UM. Even

1530
01:24:04,760 --> 01:24:06,559
Speaker 1: on a ninety acre property, you know, like I mentioned,

1531
01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:09,040
Speaker 1: half of it essentially isn't huntable because it's just why

1532
01:24:09,040 --> 01:24:12,679
Speaker 1: I don't crop field UM. So I basically have forty

1533
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:15,800
Speaker 1: five acres to work with, and I have very, very

1534
01:24:15,880 --> 01:24:19,200
Speaker 1: rarely hunted just when there's the right conditions because I'm

1535
01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:21,559
Speaker 1: really concerned about pressuring those deer, and if I if

1536
01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:24,040
Speaker 1: I make one mistake with the one buck on the

1537
01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:26,720
Speaker 1: property that I'm interested in killing, I'm probably gonna blow it.

1538
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:30,920
Speaker 1: So for me, I spend maybe you know, my season

1539
01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:32,599
Speaker 1: in Michigan kind of looks like I'll hunt the first

1540
01:24:32,680 --> 01:24:34,920
Speaker 1: night or two if the conditions are right, and then

1541
01:24:34,960 --> 01:24:36,960
Speaker 1: I might not hunt it again until the rut. Towards

1542
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:39,719
Speaker 1: the beginning of the rut face um, because at least

1543
01:24:39,760 --> 01:24:42,880
Speaker 1: in my section, that's when I end up possibly having

1544
01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:44,760
Speaker 1: a chance of seeing some daylight movement from some of

1545
01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:46,879
Speaker 1: these deer. Maybe it's different, you know in the property

1546
01:24:46,920 --> 01:24:48,720
Speaker 1: that you're able to do as much work as you've done.

1547
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:51,240
Speaker 1: But I'm just curious when it comes to hunting these

1548
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:54,360
Speaker 1: smaller properties in heavily pressured areas. What are your thoughts

1549
01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:56,920
Speaker 1: on the timing of when you hunt them or anything

1550
01:24:56,960 --> 01:25:01,280
Speaker 1: related to that, you know, Mark, I I tell people

1551
01:25:01,320 --> 01:25:05,439
Speaker 1: I want to be the invisible hunter. My goal is

1552
01:25:05,520 --> 01:25:10,519
Speaker 1: to extremely low pressure. Exactly what you said. And then, uh,

1553
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:12,120
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if you know much about

1554
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:15,680
Speaker 1: my scent control or regiment. But some people think I'm

1555
01:25:15,720 --> 01:25:20,360
Speaker 1: absolutely crazy, but I do everything I can to eliminate

1556
01:25:20,520 --> 01:25:24,760
Speaker 1: human odor. And of course you can't. But um, I

1557
01:25:25,439 --> 01:25:28,080
Speaker 1: only hunt at the right time of the year. And again,

1558
01:25:28,160 --> 01:25:31,360
Speaker 1: conditions have to be right. And uh, I'm lucky enough

1559
01:25:31,400 --> 01:25:34,479
Speaker 1: to live here, and we built the house so that

1560
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:36,600
Speaker 1: we can have great viewing, and so I do a

1561
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:41,080
Speaker 1: lot of scouting from my kitchen windows. You know, I

1562
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:44,320
Speaker 1: watched the food plots and I've got you know, uh,

1563
01:25:44,479 --> 01:25:47,320
Speaker 1: twelve acres of warm season grasses, and I can see

1564
01:25:47,600 --> 01:25:52,400
Speaker 1: uh the food plot, my destination food plots right here

1565
01:25:52,439 --> 01:25:55,280
Speaker 1: from the house. And I can go upstairs with my

1566
01:25:55,320 --> 01:25:58,160
Speaker 1: spotting scope, and you know, I can see uh two

1567
01:25:58,360 --> 01:26:01,000
Speaker 1: d and fifty yards away and watch Bucks from does

1568
01:26:01,120 --> 01:26:05,160
Speaker 1: and and uh. But yes, I'm I think the best

1569
01:26:05,200 --> 01:26:08,520
Speaker 1: takeaway that a small property owner can take from from

1570
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:12,960
Speaker 1: my advice is the worst thing you can do is overhunted,

1571
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:18,439
Speaker 1: because exactly what you said in explaining your situation will happen,

1572
01:26:19,200 --> 01:26:22,320
Speaker 1: You'll tip off that mature buck and you know they

1573
01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:25,200
Speaker 1: will get so frustrated because they keep getting nighttime pictures

1574
01:26:25,240 --> 01:26:27,320
Speaker 1: of him but they've never seen you know, and you've

1575
01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:30,760
Speaker 1: probably been down that road, right and uh, you know

1576
01:26:30,800 --> 01:26:34,040
Speaker 1: when it really is that the result of their uh,

1577
01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:37,000
Speaker 1: their pressure on him. And as you know, these Michigan deer,

1578
01:26:37,040 --> 01:26:41,600
Speaker 1: they're they're they're really uh, you know, they are amazing

1579
01:26:41,680 --> 01:26:46,479
Speaker 1: survivors considering what they go through here. And so yeah,

1580
01:26:46,520 --> 01:26:50,400
Speaker 1: I only go in under the right conditions. And you know,

1581
01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:53,479
Speaker 1: probably like yourself, because I know last year you had

1582
01:26:53,640 --> 01:26:59,280
Speaker 1: early seasons success in that dealt with cold front, and

1583
01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:02,439
Speaker 1: you know, and so I'm, uh, normally I'm a lot

1584
01:27:02,479 --> 01:27:04,599
Speaker 1: like you. I will hunt the first couple of days,

1585
01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:07,400
Speaker 1: and typically that is for me to take out one

1586
01:27:07,520 --> 01:27:11,200
Speaker 1: or two large doughs. If I've got enough deer based

1587
01:27:11,240 --> 01:27:13,599
Speaker 1: on my surveys to tell me I need to take

1588
01:27:13,640 --> 01:27:15,920
Speaker 1: a couple of big, mature doughs out. That's pretty much

1589
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:19,680
Speaker 1: my goal I'm hunting, you know, really not exactly a

1590
01:27:19,680 --> 01:27:22,400
Speaker 1: buck killing stand. I'm trying to kill a couple of

1591
01:27:22,439 --> 01:27:24,640
Speaker 1: big doughs. But you know, you never know, if you know,

1592
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:26,280
Speaker 1: you might get a hundred and thirty inches year from

1593
01:27:26,320 --> 01:27:29,719
Speaker 1: walking out that that same exact trail at that time

1594
01:27:29,720 --> 01:27:32,960
Speaker 1: of the year. And usually then I back off. I

1595
01:27:33,000 --> 01:27:35,640
Speaker 1: just you know, I like to hunt grouse in Woodcock

1596
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:38,000
Speaker 1: in northern Michigan, and I'll do I'll do a little

1597
01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:41,519
Speaker 1: of that. I'm always busy working on you know, uh,

1598
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:46,839
Speaker 1: hunters layouts and designs and habitat plans for this business.

1599
01:27:46,880 --> 01:27:49,040
Speaker 1: So I keep busy doing that, and I just run

1600
01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:54,200
Speaker 1: my trail cameras, and usually two or three days before Halloween,

1601
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:58,360
Speaker 1: depending on the temperature and the conditions, I get a

1602
01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:01,240
Speaker 1: little more interested about trying to hunt these mature bucks.

1603
01:28:02,560 --> 01:28:05,360
Speaker 1: And last year, the best, the best morning hunt I

1604
01:28:05,439 --> 01:28:10,400
Speaker 1: had with Halloween morning and and you know, uh fantastic

1605
01:28:10,439 --> 01:28:14,479
Speaker 1: morning target buck came came from the betting area just

1606
01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:17,519
Speaker 1: like he was supposed to, following a dough. I mean

1607
01:28:17,560 --> 01:28:19,559
Speaker 1: it was just it was textbook, you know, less than

1608
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:22,720
Speaker 1: ten yards. I mean, you know, everything was perfect right

1609
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:25,240
Speaker 1: until the moment I took the shot. You know, that's

1610
01:28:25,280 --> 01:28:30,479
Speaker 1: another story that happens. Well it does. You know, That's

1611
01:28:30,479 --> 01:28:33,360
Speaker 1: the great thing of bow hunting is you know, uh,

1612
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:35,320
Speaker 1: if it's going to go wrong. It'll go wrong. Then

1613
01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:40,360
Speaker 1: nothing is guaranteed. Now, if I remember right Halloween in Michigan,

1614
01:28:41,000 --> 01:28:43,519
Speaker 1: because I at that point I think I had, I

1615
01:28:43,560 --> 01:28:46,080
Speaker 1: was in Iowa, but a big cold front was hitting

1616
01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:48,200
Speaker 1: right around the thirty thirty first in Michigan. So it

1617
01:28:48,240 --> 01:28:51,840
Speaker 1: is probably what happened for you. Yes, yep, And that's

1618
01:28:52,040 --> 01:28:54,120
Speaker 1: I really am a guy that keys in on cold

1619
01:28:54,160 --> 01:28:59,400
Speaker 1: front and I love the northwest wind. Uh. Probably sevent

1620
01:29:00,160 --> 01:29:04,000
Speaker 1: of my hunting stands set ups are strictly for northwest

1621
01:29:04,040 --> 01:29:07,840
Speaker 1: wind conditions. Um, every good buck I ever killed with

1622
01:29:07,880 --> 01:29:11,320
Speaker 1: a bow evening or morning was killed pretty much in

1623
01:29:11,360 --> 01:29:14,400
Speaker 1: a northwest wind cold front. And not that I have.

1624
01:29:14,479 --> 01:29:17,600
Speaker 1: And I've killed some of the typical west and southwest

1625
01:29:17,600 --> 01:29:19,760
Speaker 1: wind you know, the what you call the fair weather deer,

1626
01:29:20,320 --> 01:29:23,320
Speaker 1: but most of them are always moving under that cold

1627
01:29:23,360 --> 01:29:27,000
Speaker 1: front condition. Yeah, I'm a huge fan of the same thing,

1628
01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:29,080
Speaker 1: that's for sure. Oh and you know, I have a

1629
01:29:29,080 --> 01:29:32,400
Speaker 1: couple of funnels that i've well, number one there there's

1630
01:29:32,479 --> 01:29:35,240
Speaker 1: somewhat natural that I've enhanced them, and I've got the

1631
01:29:35,320 --> 01:29:38,120
Speaker 1: betting areas there and one is really difficult for me

1632
01:29:38,200 --> 01:29:41,640
Speaker 1: to get to. But I have one that when the

1633
01:29:41,640 --> 01:29:44,040
Speaker 1: conditions are right, and it's the first week in November.

1634
01:29:44,120 --> 01:29:46,400
Speaker 1: I can't sleep that night. I can't wait to get

1635
01:29:46,439 --> 01:29:49,320
Speaker 1: in there. And I mean it never ever lets me down.

1636
01:29:49,479 --> 01:29:52,679
Speaker 1: I mean I've never gone in there and not had

1637
01:29:52,800 --> 01:29:55,360
Speaker 1: you know, exactly what I expected to have happened. It

1638
01:29:55,400 --> 01:29:58,800
Speaker 1: doesn't always mean you kill the deer, okay, but boy,

1639
01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:01,000
Speaker 1: it sure his neat to have one or two of

1640
01:30:01,040 --> 01:30:04,759
Speaker 1: those those go to and it clearly is a result

1641
01:30:04,840 --> 01:30:08,360
Speaker 1: of the habitat the food and the fact that I

1642
01:30:08,439 --> 01:30:10,400
Speaker 1: don't go in there. You know, if you were in

1643
01:30:10,439 --> 01:30:13,840
Speaker 1: there six or seven times during October during what people

1644
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:16,960
Speaker 1: call the October Law, those bucks would be, you know,

1645
01:30:17,080 --> 01:30:20,160
Speaker 1: all about you. They'd have heard you, smell you. Uh.

1646
01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:23,240
Speaker 1: And so now that the time is right, you go

1647
01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:26,439
Speaker 1: in there and you don't see it because he's onto you.

1648
01:30:27,400 --> 01:30:29,599
Speaker 1: So well, I think they pattern us much better than

1649
01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:32,479
Speaker 1: we're able to pattern them. Oh yeah, that's for sure.

1650
01:30:33,120 --> 01:30:35,360
Speaker 1: I think me and Dan have experienced that many times.

1651
01:30:35,439 --> 01:30:41,400
Speaker 1: Unfortunately every season, yeah, every year. Yeah, yeah. So you

1652
01:30:41,400 --> 01:30:43,720
Speaker 1: know it's funny something you mentioned there is one of

1653
01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:46,880
Speaker 1: my absolute favorite things about a hunting season, and it's

1654
01:30:46,920 --> 01:30:50,040
Speaker 1: that day before or the night before when you just

1655
01:30:50,160 --> 01:30:53,080
Speaker 1: have those perfect conditions, and you have a spot that

1656
01:30:53,120 --> 01:30:56,400
Speaker 1: you've been waiting for, and everything feels like it's lining up,

1657
01:30:56,520 --> 01:30:59,000
Speaker 1: like that level of anticipation that I get the night before,

1658
01:30:59,120 --> 01:31:01,080
Speaker 1: or like on the drive to my property or whatever,

1659
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:03,479
Speaker 1: and you just have that feeling in your gut like

1660
01:31:03,680 --> 01:31:06,439
Speaker 1: something good is going to happen. I lived for that.

1661
01:31:06,439 --> 01:31:09,080
Speaker 1: That is the best, you know. I mean, I guess

1662
01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:10,960
Speaker 1: that's what keeps us out in the woods every day

1663
01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:12,920
Speaker 1: and gets you getting up at four thirty in the morning,

1664
01:31:12,960 --> 01:31:15,960
Speaker 1: isn't it? Yes? Exactly? Because it can be tough sometimes

1665
01:31:17,040 --> 01:31:20,080
Speaker 1: I can't can You know? It's a lot of It's

1666
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:24,080
Speaker 1: a lot of work, okay, you know, especially someone like you.

1667
01:31:24,080 --> 01:31:26,920
Speaker 1: You're hunting multiple states. I know you hunt Ohio and

1668
01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:30,240
Speaker 1: last year you hunted Iowa, So you're really putting in

1669
01:31:30,280 --> 01:31:33,759
Speaker 1: your time. And you know, back in the old days

1670
01:31:34,040 --> 01:31:36,680
Speaker 1: when I was still a pretty successful deer hunter, I

1671
01:31:36,760 --> 01:31:39,240
Speaker 1: killed a lot of deer with a bow and a

1672
01:31:39,280 --> 01:31:41,960
Speaker 1: lot of small bucks before I understood the age class

1673
01:31:41,960 --> 01:31:44,960
Speaker 1: and all that kind of thing. So I would hunt.

1674
01:31:45,160 --> 01:31:46,880
Speaker 1: I had two different I had this property and then

1675
01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:49,439
Speaker 1: I had permission to hunt another property in Hillsdale County,

1676
01:31:49,520 --> 01:31:51,519
Speaker 1: and I was one of those guys, I hunted every

1677
01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:55,160
Speaker 1: available day I had, okay, and that becomes a lot

1678
01:31:55,200 --> 01:32:00,360
Speaker 1: of work. Uh So, yeah, I can only imagine, you know,

1679
01:32:00,400 --> 01:32:02,160
Speaker 1: for the people that are in the business that you know,

1680
01:32:02,200 --> 01:32:03,880
Speaker 1: they're just in the filming and they you know, they

1681
01:32:03,960 --> 01:32:06,280
Speaker 1: hunt forty five sixty days in a season. That's a

1682
01:32:06,320 --> 01:32:09,720
Speaker 1: long cold season. Yeah, Kenvy, that's for sure. And kind

1683
01:32:09,800 --> 01:32:12,479
Speaker 1: to that point, you know, as we're talking about, you know,

1684
01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:15,760
Speaker 1: this idea of of not hunting your small property a

1685
01:32:15,800 --> 01:32:17,920
Speaker 1: whole lot, being really careful about that. You know, we

1686
01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:19,840
Speaker 1: talked about I've talked about this sometimes in the past,

1687
01:32:19,880 --> 01:32:22,120
Speaker 1: and then you get people who hear that and they say, well,

1688
01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:24,559
Speaker 1: I want to hunt. You know, I love to dear

1689
01:32:24,640 --> 01:32:25,920
Speaker 1: him because I want to be out there. So this

1690
01:32:25,960 --> 01:32:28,120
Speaker 1: sounds like a stupid idea if I can never hunt

1691
01:32:28,120 --> 01:32:30,880
Speaker 1: my property, and I totally I totally get that and

1692
01:32:30,880 --> 01:32:33,240
Speaker 1: and the way I kind of combat that, at least

1693
01:32:33,280 --> 01:32:36,160
Speaker 1: in my situation. And you know, it depends on your goals, right,

1694
01:32:36,320 --> 01:32:38,120
Speaker 1: If you just want to be out hunting a lot,

1695
01:32:38,160 --> 01:32:41,720
Speaker 1: that's perfectly fine, and you know that's great, But if

1696
01:32:41,760 --> 01:32:44,599
Speaker 1: you are trying to kill a big or mature deer

1697
01:32:44,640 --> 01:32:47,040
Speaker 1: on a small property in a place like Michigan or wherever.

1698
01:32:47,600 --> 01:32:49,320
Speaker 1: You know, you have to go about a little differently.

1699
01:32:49,360 --> 01:32:52,000
Speaker 1: So for me, what that means is that you know,

1700
01:32:52,040 --> 01:32:54,720
Speaker 1: I've got If I know there's a buck that I'm after,

1701
01:32:54,760 --> 01:32:57,120
Speaker 1: a mature buck, let's say on this main Michigan property

1702
01:32:57,200 --> 01:32:59,000
Speaker 1: or one of the other ones. You know, I go

1703
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:02,760
Speaker 1: into like mature buck hunting mode for that property. So

1704
01:33:02,840 --> 01:33:07,120
Speaker 1: that means this, you know, very careful timing, very few hunts,

1705
01:33:07,160 --> 01:33:09,120
Speaker 1: just when it's right. But that doesn't mean I'm not

1706
01:33:09,200 --> 01:33:11,519
Speaker 1: hunting on the other weekends or the other days that

1707
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:13,519
Speaker 1: I can hunt. You know, I'll still go hunt somewhere

1708
01:33:13,560 --> 01:33:15,679
Speaker 1: I just have, you know, maybe it'll be a public place,

1709
01:33:15,760 --> 01:33:17,240
Speaker 1: or maybe it'll be one of the other properties that

1710
01:33:17,360 --> 01:33:19,160
Speaker 1: permission on where I can just go out there and

1711
01:33:19,240 --> 01:33:21,600
Speaker 1: hunt and have a good time. But I'm not necessarily

1712
01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:25,160
Speaker 1: so concerned about you know, me actually seeing a mature

1713
01:33:25,200 --> 01:33:27,720
Speaker 1: buck or spooking mature buck. Yeah, it's great, I'm out there,

1714
01:33:27,720 --> 01:33:29,920
Speaker 1: so I might have a chance, but it's in an

1715
01:33:29,920 --> 01:33:32,800
Speaker 1: area where I'm not as concerned about possibly blowing it

1716
01:33:32,920 --> 01:33:35,160
Speaker 1: on the deer I'm really after. So you know, if

1717
01:33:35,200 --> 01:33:36,439
Speaker 1: you can go out there and get a couple of

1718
01:33:36,479 --> 01:33:39,680
Speaker 1: additional properties by asking for permission or finding piece of

1719
01:33:39,680 --> 01:33:41,200
Speaker 1: public land that you can still go hunt and have

1720
01:33:41,240 --> 01:33:44,360
Speaker 1: fun on um, but then be particularly careful in the

1721
01:33:44,479 --> 01:33:47,040
Speaker 1: smaller areas. Maybe that you are trying to be careful

1722
01:33:47,040 --> 01:33:49,320
Speaker 1: with that maturity here. That's one way to still get

1723
01:33:49,360 --> 01:33:51,000
Speaker 1: to hunt but also have a chance of those kind

1724
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:55,240
Speaker 1: of deer. Right yep. And I would say one of

1725
01:33:55,240 --> 01:33:58,759
Speaker 1: the things I have done on this property, and actually

1726
01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:01,400
Speaker 1: three or four of my clients in the last four

1727
01:34:01,479 --> 01:34:03,880
Speaker 1: or five years with similar sized properties have done it.

1728
01:34:04,479 --> 01:34:07,280
Speaker 1: I've established stands that I'm going to call them low

1729
01:34:07,360 --> 01:34:12,080
Speaker 1: productive stands, but good visual stands. So you're just dying

1730
01:34:12,120 --> 01:34:13,679
Speaker 1: to get out there and see what the deer are doing,

1731
01:34:13,720 --> 01:34:16,040
Speaker 1: but you don't want to even think about entering your

1732
01:34:16,080 --> 01:34:18,920
Speaker 1: good zones. I've got places that I can hunt that

1733
01:34:18,960 --> 01:34:24,559
Speaker 1: are literally seventy hundred yards from my house. Uh, you know,

1734
01:34:24,920 --> 01:34:26,920
Speaker 1: probably not going to run into Mr Big, but you

1735
01:34:27,000 --> 01:34:29,040
Speaker 1: never know. But hey, you can go out there and

1736
01:34:29,080 --> 01:34:30,720
Speaker 1: hunt any evening, you know, and still see what the

1737
01:34:30,720 --> 01:34:32,720
Speaker 1: deer are doing and use your you know, got your

1738
01:34:32,720 --> 01:34:35,680
Speaker 1: binoculars and glass and see where they're coming in and

1739
01:34:35,680 --> 01:34:37,880
Speaker 1: out of the bedding areas. And what time you're moving

1740
01:34:37,920 --> 01:34:40,519
Speaker 1: in because they let's safe that that's what you know,

1741
01:34:40,600 --> 01:34:42,880
Speaker 1: we do all this work all year long just for

1742
01:34:42,960 --> 01:34:45,720
Speaker 1: that short window of time. And so if if you're

1743
01:34:45,760 --> 01:34:49,960
Speaker 1: not lucky enough to have that state land or from

1744
01:34:49,960 --> 01:34:52,720
Speaker 1: private land that somebody else lets you, uh, you know,

1745
01:34:52,760 --> 01:34:55,960
Speaker 1: gives you permission to hunt on, you can establish some

1746
01:34:56,040 --> 01:34:57,720
Speaker 1: other you know what you call what I call them

1747
01:34:57,760 --> 01:35:00,720
Speaker 1: low productive, more observation type stand but you're still out

1748
01:35:00,760 --> 01:35:03,280
Speaker 1: there hunting, and then that's that's good. Yeah, that's a

1749
01:35:03,280 --> 01:35:06,519
Speaker 1: great point. It's a great idea. Then, any any of

1750
01:35:06,560 --> 01:35:08,559
Speaker 1: the questions from you before we wrap things up here.

1751
01:35:11,520 --> 01:35:14,840
Speaker 1: I have one question, and I don't believe we quite

1752
01:35:14,920 --> 01:35:18,160
Speaker 1: touched on it. You know, a lot of creating it's

1753
01:35:18,160 --> 01:35:23,160
Speaker 1: going back to creating betting areas, but based off of

1754
01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:30,519
Speaker 1: how the property lays will determine where these um deer

1755
01:35:30,600 --> 01:35:35,080
Speaker 1: are betting on certain winds. So, for example, on a

1756
01:35:35,080 --> 01:35:37,920
Speaker 1: piece of property that I hunt UM, the south side

1757
01:35:37,920 --> 01:35:40,320
Speaker 1: of the property is all high ground and then it

1758
01:35:40,439 --> 01:35:45,080
Speaker 1: all drops off on UM as it works its way

1759
01:35:45,160 --> 01:35:48,360
Speaker 1: north down to a creek, and all these little fingers

1760
01:35:48,439 --> 01:35:51,960
Speaker 1: and um spurs come off of this huge valley and

1761
01:35:52,080 --> 01:35:54,880
Speaker 1: it's like they're pointing north, so the deer like to

1762
01:35:54,920 --> 01:35:58,800
Speaker 1: bed there on a south wind. Now the deer on

1763
01:35:58,840 --> 01:36:02,559
Speaker 1: a north wind aren't really betting there because based off

1764
01:36:02,600 --> 01:36:07,840
Speaker 1: of the terrain, it's it's not beneficial for them to too.

1765
01:36:08,960 --> 01:36:12,320
Speaker 1: You know, they don't have the wind advantage if they're

1766
01:36:12,320 --> 01:36:14,360
Speaker 1: betting down at the end of those points. So are

1767
01:36:14,439 --> 01:36:19,760
Speaker 1: you are you making betting areas on your property for

1768
01:36:20,160 --> 01:36:26,320
Speaker 1: every wind direction? Um? You know, like you're The topography

1769
01:36:26,400 --> 01:36:30,320
Speaker 1: situation you talked about makes it extremely difficult. Probably the

1770
01:36:30,360 --> 01:36:33,280
Speaker 1: only place you could build betting is on the south side,

1771
01:36:34,280 --> 01:36:37,240
Speaker 1: the highest the highest point of the property. You know, say,

1772
01:36:37,280 --> 01:36:39,559
Speaker 1: if you wanted betting for north wind and I don't

1773
01:36:39,560 --> 01:36:42,160
Speaker 1: know if you if you enter that property from the

1774
01:36:42,200 --> 01:36:46,360
Speaker 1: south side, uh, but you know, it limits your ability

1775
01:36:46,400 --> 01:36:50,280
Speaker 1: for access. So if it's not so, if it doesn't

1776
01:36:50,280 --> 01:36:52,799
Speaker 1: have a lot of topography change, then you can really

1777
01:36:52,840 --> 01:36:57,800
Speaker 1: get creative and build multiple betting locations for different wind directions.

1778
01:36:58,880 --> 01:37:03,160
Speaker 1: But topography in either give you a lot of options

1779
01:37:03,240 --> 01:37:06,519
Speaker 1: or take those options away, depending how it lays. So

1780
01:37:06,640 --> 01:37:09,519
Speaker 1: every property is different. And that makes sense, you know,

1781
01:37:09,680 --> 01:37:14,200
Speaker 1: because right topography is such an influencer of betting that

1782
01:37:15,120 --> 01:37:16,960
Speaker 1: if I understand that correctly, JA, because I'm hearing you

1783
01:37:17,000 --> 01:37:19,320
Speaker 1: say this. In an area with that type of topography,

1784
01:37:19,439 --> 01:37:22,280
Speaker 1: that's going to preempt almost anything else when it comes

1785
01:37:22,280 --> 01:37:24,439
Speaker 1: to where a deer will bed, because that's such a

1786
01:37:24,520 --> 01:37:28,519
Speaker 1: highly desirable factor one of deer's deciding word bed versus.

1787
01:37:29,080 --> 01:37:31,639
Speaker 1: Let's say you've got a flat piece of ground, then

1788
01:37:32,280 --> 01:37:35,640
Speaker 1: the highly desirable features for betting can be anything you

1789
01:37:35,680 --> 01:37:37,680
Speaker 1: want them to be if you're creating that cover. And

1790
01:37:37,760 --> 01:37:41,320
Speaker 1: so there isn't that there isn't that additional natural influencer

1791
01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:44,000
Speaker 1: that would impact it one way or the other. Yeah,

1792
01:37:44,120 --> 01:37:46,360
Speaker 1: you can literally just you know, uh, start with a

1793
01:37:46,360 --> 01:37:48,640
Speaker 1: blank slate and say, you know, we're gonna put you know,

1794
01:37:48,880 --> 01:37:51,760
Speaker 1: X number of buck bets here and so many dol

1795
01:37:51,840 --> 01:37:53,920
Speaker 1: beds here. Then we're gonna go to the southwest corner

1796
01:37:53,920 --> 01:37:55,400
Speaker 1: and we're gonna put buck the bets here and do

1797
01:37:55,600 --> 01:37:58,200
Speaker 1: beds here, and we're gonna put destination food. And because

1798
01:37:58,200 --> 01:38:00,960
Speaker 1: it's flat ground, they're just in a bed on say

1799
01:38:01,000 --> 01:38:03,320
Speaker 1: the north side of the bedding area one day and

1800
01:38:03,320 --> 01:38:06,160
Speaker 1: on the south side of the betting area another day,

1801
01:38:06,240 --> 01:38:08,240
Speaker 1: just based on wind, but still bed in the same

1802
01:38:08,320 --> 01:38:12,520
Speaker 1: basic betting structure. For a half acre hinge cut. Yeah,

1803
01:38:12,520 --> 01:38:15,280
Speaker 1: that's some pretty interesting stuff to me. I love when

1804
01:38:15,320 --> 01:38:18,559
Speaker 1: you start looking at all the tiny variables, like, you know,

1805
01:38:18,600 --> 01:38:21,080
Speaker 1: how will win direction impact where they're betting? And if

1806
01:38:21,120 --> 01:38:23,160
Speaker 1: I can take that and faret where I think they're betting,

1807
01:38:23,360 --> 01:38:25,240
Speaker 1: then where do I think they're going to want to feed?

1808
01:38:25,360 --> 01:38:27,479
Speaker 1: And based on that where I think there, how will

1809
01:38:27,520 --> 01:38:29,840
Speaker 1: they travel from A to B? And I get that

1810
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:33,120
Speaker 1: kick out of trying to micro analyze it. Probably it's

1811
01:38:33,120 --> 01:38:34,720
Speaker 1: a fault. I probably take it too far and it

1812
01:38:34,760 --> 01:38:38,200
Speaker 1: screws me up more than it helps. It's maybe one

1813
01:38:38,280 --> 01:38:40,760
Speaker 1: piece of information I can put into this. And I

1814
01:38:40,800 --> 01:38:44,519
Speaker 1: think this this is more about pressured deer than non

1815
01:38:44,600 --> 01:38:50,120
Speaker 1: pressured deer. But many of my betting areas and food

1816
01:38:50,160 --> 01:38:53,120
Speaker 1: plot locations, as far as what I would call deer

1817
01:38:53,120 --> 01:38:56,639
Speaker 1: pattern movements where you would expect dear to move, are

1818
01:38:56,720 --> 01:39:00,000
Speaker 1: based on deer betting in a being in a particular

1819
01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:03,000
Speaker 1: to a betting area. And as they start moving towards

1820
01:39:03,040 --> 01:39:06,439
Speaker 1: the food, they're gonna want the wind somewhat in their face.

1821
01:39:06,520 --> 01:39:09,360
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean they go directly into the wind, okay,

1822
01:39:09,680 --> 01:39:12,040
Speaker 1: but it often means they're gonna quarter into the wind

1823
01:39:12,040 --> 01:39:15,240
Speaker 1: they want, you know, they're in a betting area, and

1824
01:39:15,320 --> 01:39:17,360
Speaker 1: so they want to be able to detect danger, whether

1825
01:39:17,400 --> 01:39:21,760
Speaker 1: that's a coyote man, you know, a neighbor's dog. For

1826
01:39:21,840 --> 01:39:24,320
Speaker 1: a lot of my setups that I do on my

1827
01:39:24,360 --> 01:39:29,080
Speaker 1: own property and I design on client properties are focused

1828
01:39:29,320 --> 01:39:33,840
Speaker 1: on you know, that northwest wind cold front, and here's

1829
01:39:33,920 --> 01:39:36,240
Speaker 1: you know, here's the betting location, here's the food plot.

1830
01:39:36,320 --> 01:39:38,080
Speaker 1: So this is where your stand is going to be set.

1831
01:39:38,320 --> 01:39:41,519
Speaker 1: And then what you call a fair weather, your west

1832
01:39:41,640 --> 01:39:44,479
Speaker 1: southwest wind, and so we're gonna have a betting area

1833
01:39:44,520 --> 01:39:46,160
Speaker 1: over here, in a food plot over here, And so

1834
01:39:46,240 --> 01:39:49,680
Speaker 1: you would completely change the location of hunting maybe two

1835
01:39:49,760 --> 01:39:51,640
Speaker 1: days in a row if the wind changes from the

1836
01:39:51,640 --> 01:39:54,280
Speaker 1: northwest cold and then it goes back to you know,

1837
01:39:54,400 --> 01:39:59,280
Speaker 1: your fair weather conditions. Yeah. Interesting, interesting to go into

1838
01:39:59,320 --> 01:40:03,559
Speaker 1: each of those different behavioral tendencies based on factory. So

1839
01:40:03,640 --> 01:40:06,240
Speaker 1: many facets of this we could go on forever. We

1840
01:40:06,280 --> 01:40:10,920
Speaker 1: could turn this into a d podcast. There's always the

1841
01:40:10,960 --> 01:40:15,840
Speaker 1: risk of that, that's for sure. So I guess what

1842
01:40:15,840 --> 01:40:18,479
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to do. Jake is trying to wrangle

1843
01:40:18,520 --> 01:40:20,600
Speaker 1: you around for coffee sometimes, so I can continue to

1844
01:40:20,640 --> 01:40:22,560
Speaker 1: pick your brain about this stuff without the risk of

1845
01:40:22,600 --> 01:40:26,920
Speaker 1: a hundred hour podcasts. There you go. I would encourage

1846
01:40:26,920 --> 01:40:29,280
Speaker 1: you to when you do get back to Michigan and

1847
01:40:29,320 --> 01:40:31,360
Speaker 1: before it's hunting season, reach out to me and I'll

1848
01:40:31,360 --> 01:40:33,799
Speaker 1: give you a tour that would be awesome. And speaking

1849
01:40:34,000 --> 01:40:35,760
Speaker 1: speaking of that, you know what you're doing with your

1850
01:40:35,760 --> 01:40:38,080
Speaker 1: own property and elsewhere. For those that do want to

1851
01:40:38,160 --> 01:40:40,559
Speaker 1: learn more from you um or get a hold of

1852
01:40:40,560 --> 01:40:43,320
Speaker 1: you about you know what you're doing from from work standpoint,

1853
01:40:43,360 --> 01:40:46,920
Speaker 1: whether it be real estate or habitat consultations, how can

1854
01:40:46,960 --> 01:40:48,760
Speaker 1: they find how can they find you online? How can

1855
01:40:48,800 --> 01:40:53,280
Speaker 1: they get ahold of you? My habitat business is Habitat

1856
01:40:53,360 --> 01:40:56,760
Speaker 1: Solutions three six dot com and I've got some free

1857
01:40:56,840 --> 01:40:59,360
Speaker 1: videos there and a lot of information on that website,

1858
01:41:00,400 --> 01:41:03,840
Speaker 1: and that would be everything from habitat management to improving

1859
01:41:03,920 --> 01:41:08,040
Speaker 1: and developing a property. And from a real estate listing

1860
01:41:08,160 --> 01:41:12,600
Speaker 1: or selling standpoint, you'd want to reach me at, you

1861
01:41:12,600 --> 01:41:16,240
Speaker 1: can go to the white Tail Properties dot com website

1862
01:41:16,400 --> 01:41:19,439
Speaker 1: and go to Michigan agent finder and you'll be able

1863
01:41:19,439 --> 01:41:21,320
Speaker 1: to find me right there and my email and my

1864
01:41:21,400 --> 01:41:26,639
Speaker 1: contact information is right there available for just one click away. Awesome. Well,

1865
01:41:26,680 --> 01:41:28,760
Speaker 1: we'll make sure to include those links too in the

1866
01:41:28,800 --> 01:41:33,080
Speaker 1: blog post for this podcast if anyone's interested. So, Jake,

1867
01:41:33,120 --> 01:41:35,839
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. I I definitely

1868
01:41:35,840 --> 01:41:37,479
Speaker 1: got to kick out of this and I think a

1869
01:41:37,479 --> 01:41:40,160
Speaker 1: lot of our listeners did too well. Thank you, Mark

1870
01:41:41,160 --> 01:41:43,559
Speaker 1: is an honor to speak with you guys. Absolutely well,

1871
01:41:43,600 --> 01:41:45,639
Speaker 1: let's stay in touch, Jake, and good luck this season

1872
01:41:46,439 --> 01:41:49,439
Speaker 1: and you too, thanks so much. All right, ye see

1873
01:41:49,479 --> 01:41:53,200
Speaker 1: you byye And with that we are going to wrap

1874
01:41:53,320 --> 01:41:58,400
Speaker 1: up this episode number one and eleven. Before we go, though,

1875
01:41:58,400 --> 01:42:00,720
Speaker 1: we do need to thank our partners to help make

1876
01:42:00,760 --> 01:42:03,519
Speaker 1: this podcast possible, and we need to thank you all

1877
01:42:04,000 --> 01:42:07,040
Speaker 1: for you know, taking listen to these occasional advertisements and

1878
01:42:07,120 --> 01:42:09,760
Speaker 1: supporting these companies that have been so helpful for us

1879
01:42:10,040 --> 01:42:14,840
Speaker 1: to make this podcast reality so big. Thanks to Sick Gear, Trophy, Ridge,

1880
01:42:14,840 --> 01:42:19,800
Speaker 1: Bear Archery, Redneck Blinds, Hunt, Arra, Maps, Osonics, Carbon Express,

1881
01:42:20,000 --> 01:42:23,720
Speaker 1: Maven Optics, and the White Tailed Institute of North America.

1882
01:42:23,880 --> 01:42:27,599
Speaker 1: And finally, most importantly, thank you all for spending some

1883
01:42:27,680 --> 01:42:30,400
Speaker 1: time with us here today for listening to this episode.

1884
01:42:30,439 --> 01:42:34,200
Speaker 1: Hopefully you found Jake's advice interesting and helpful, and of

1885
01:42:34,240 --> 01:42:38,760
Speaker 1: course we hope until next time you'll stay wired to

1886
01:42:38,880 --> 01:42:39,160
Speaker 1: Hunt