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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Histories, a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show,

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much for tuning

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Speaker 1: in Skirt Skirt. Before we do anything, I think we're

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Speaker 1: gonna have to. We're gonna have to talk about the

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Speaker 1: events of this weekend, maybe with a pat on our

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Speaker 1: collective backs for not gonna shout out our super producer

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Speaker 1: Super I was getting there for Superproducer Max for Go Brown.

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Speaker 1: They called me Ben Guys. We had an adventure pretty recently.

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Speaker 2: Of epic proportions. Yes, we went to mostag It was

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Speaker 2: we chose very specifically. We could have gone on Saturday

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Speaker 2: Saturday Saturday, but that wouldn't have been the same as

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Speaker 2: Sunday Sunday Sunday. So that's what we did. We went

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Speaker 2: to Monster Jam at the Atlanta Motor Speedway. I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure about you, fellas, but I'd never been to a

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Speaker 2: motor speedway of any variety before, so it was really

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Speaker 2: a whole new experience for me. And brought the kid

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Speaker 2: along too, who had a sensory overload explosion of a time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I had grown up a little closer to that area,

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Speaker 1: spent the formative years there, so I had been to

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Speaker 1: the Motor Speedway before, most recently a number of years ago,

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Speaker 1: when good friend of the show Ramsey, and I went

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Speaker 1: to see Burt Reynolds at an exhibition of all the

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Speaker 1: stunts from Cannonball Run. But the scale of the Motor

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Speaker 1: Speedway is egregious. It's the most American sized thing you

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Speaker 1: could imagine. And I think we were all prize when

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Speaker 1: we were recording our previous episode on the Origin of

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Speaker 1: Monster Trucks to learn that Monster Jam was in fact

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Speaker 1: not only still a thing, but coming to our fair

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Speaker 1: metropolis of Atlanta that very weekend. So we decided that

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Speaker 1: we would get together and go on a little bit

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Speaker 1: of day trip of a day trip, and I just

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Speaker 1: had such a lovely time with you guys. Great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we had a little bit of lunch beforehand one

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Speaker 2: of our favorite local spots, shout outs on Manuals.

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Speaker 1: Manuals, that's the.

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Speaker 2: Way to the Jimmy Carter's favorite restaurant, the Peanut Man.

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Speaker 2: A lot of politicians over the years have made that

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Speaker 2: kind of their home. I think Barack Obama posted up

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Speaker 2: there for like some sort of events at one point.

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Speaker 2: You're right, I remember hearing that they checked the light bulbs. Yes,

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Speaker 2: they checked. They didn't just check them, they replaced them.

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Speaker 1: That's right. That's right, because apparently apparently security is way

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Speaker 1: tighter at manuals when the president and shows up versus

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Speaker 1: the you know, the podcasters getting brunch. But I wanted

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Speaker 1: to ask you guys before we get into this week's

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Speaker 1: two part episode, which we're all very excited about. What

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Speaker 1: was something that really surprised you about Monster Jam.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was definitely surprised to see, I believe Ben

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Speaker 2: you pointed out or heard maybe while I was off

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Speaker 2: getting an overpriced slushy in a creepy skull stein that

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Speaker 2: the original Grave Digger made an appearance and won the day,

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Speaker 2: by the wayay, which prompted some people to say it

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Speaker 2: was rigged.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so surprised.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was surprised to see that because I guess

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Speaker 2: I wasn't expecting you know, it wasn't expecting that. But

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Speaker 2: there were T shirts obviously very much a draw. I

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Speaker 2: was just surprised, as I think you were, Ben, by

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Speaker 2: the diversity of the crowd. It was all kinds of

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Speaker 2: folks that were there to enjoy Monster Jam.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was. I was surprised by that. A bit.

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Speaker 1: We also realized pretty quickly that this was the biggest

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Speaker 1: event in that town, you know, as Max said, a

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Speaker 1: few counties wide probably. And another thing that surprised me

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Speaker 1: that I hadn't really thought of seeing a monster jam

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Speaker 1: as an adult was that a lot of the trucks

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Speaker 1: break constantly and it doesn't really affect their score.

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Speaker 2: Rights, right, yeah, and they've got like cruise to come,

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Speaker 2: you know, roll up on the roll up on them

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Speaker 2: and then help them out.

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Speaker 1: Also, there was a loader I guess you'd call it.

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Speaker 2: That was you know, what was a caterpillar I guess

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Speaker 2: is the big company that makes those kind of back

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Speaker 2: ho things. But it was a custom job. Where the

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Speaker 2: front part of it, which I'm affectionately referring to as

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Speaker 2: the bucket, I think that's actually right, but I'm just

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Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure. Let us know what you think

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Speaker 2: out their ridiculous historians, anyone working in construction. But it

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Speaker 2: looked like a dinosaur head kind of. And then on

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Speaker 2: the back the little part that I guess is usually

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Speaker 2: like a little pick kind of for like, you know,

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Speaker 2: stabilizing the thing. It looked like a a dinosaur's tail

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Speaker 2: and it would flip the trucks back over when they

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Speaker 2: maybe miscalculated on some sort of maneuver and landed, you know,

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Speaker 2: upside down or on their side.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, that happens pretty often. But we saw the backflips.

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Speaker 1: A couple of those landed successfully. These trucks, which are

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Speaker 1: already massive, went incredibly high at the air. Oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's just like you know, the Motor Speedway

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Speaker 2: is basically the part around the edges where the NASCAR races.

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Speaker 2: You know, they go around in circles, but it's huge,

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Speaker 2: and it's like, you know, Max pointed out that these

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Speaker 2: types of arenas are the biggest of any types of

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Speaker 2: sporting arena, and it makes sense because for it to

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Speaker 2: be a meaningful race, it's got to be a decent

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Speaker 2: amount of space and then the But none of that

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Speaker 2: is used for the Monster Truck Rally.

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Speaker 1: I guess we'll call.

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Speaker 2: It only the part in the middle, which is maybe

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Speaker 2: where like a rock band might play. And they obviously

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Speaker 2: had to do a lot of work basically excavating it, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean, all of these hills and ramps and stuff.

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Speaker 2: That stuff's not always there, you know. They had to

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Speaker 2: build that stuff with dirt, you know, from scratch. So

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Speaker 2: that was pretty impressive, just the whole I don't know

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Speaker 2: the logistics of the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: The production. Yeah, the production. Everybody's got there. So they've

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Speaker 1: got the they've got like the profile video that plays

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Speaker 1: for every driver, which those things are I think on purpose,

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Speaker 1: really funny. And they all have their cool nicknames. All

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Speaker 1: the trucks are themed. There's like Megaladon, which I think

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Speaker 1: was your favorite. That was uh with uh what was

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Speaker 1: his name? La Due? There was le duc Le Duke

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Speaker 1: was the driver of Megaladon. No, maybe he was the

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Speaker 1: driver of the now I think he was.

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Speaker 2: Mildon had a bit of a rough run though. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: if we were called I think he you know, we were.

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Speaker 2: We made it a little late and we got there

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Speaker 2: for the freestyle event, which is like you know, it

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Speaker 2: sounds like with skateboarding brav where you basically just show

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Speaker 2: bowed around and do all the flips and maneuvers that

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Speaker 2: you can hand. And yeah, something went broke down on

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Speaker 2: old Megaladon. He didn't make it for more than thirty seconds,

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Speaker 2: but the rules were if you get up to thirty seconds,

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Speaker 2: you still get scored, and he got a respectable he

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Speaker 2: got a respectable smort because he did some pretty cool moves.

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Speaker 2: El Toro did a neat flex where he has the

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Speaker 2: thing is obviously looked like looks like a bull. He

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Speaker 2: kind of climbed up to the top of a hill

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Speaker 2: and then started shooting steam out of his his anthropomorphizing

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Speaker 2: this truck here nostrils, I guess, headlamp nostrils El Toro Loco.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And I went and looked up some of their

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Speaker 1: other work. I think I might have a new obsession.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure I might. I might assume when they

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Speaker 1: come back now that we know it's such a big production,

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Speaker 1: both as a show and getting there. Another thing that

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Speaker 1: they did that I really enjoyed calling out to Max's

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Speaker 1: KFE wrestling references. They all had snippets, dare we say,

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Speaker 1: samples of plane as as they're introu That's what this

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Speaker 1: week's two part episode is all about. Free samples, right,

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Speaker 1: you know?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, costre oh exactly, little cubes of cheese, all that good.

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Speaker 1: Slice of pepperoni.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or if you go to like a super h

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Speaker 2: smart perhaps a little ramikin plastic rammichin of noodle soup.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps I love the things that look like a medical

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Speaker 1: sample sized cup of kimchi, just enough to mess with

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Speaker 1: your breath, just enough. No, thank you, I'll give that

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Speaker 1: what it passed.

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Speaker 2: No, no, we we just we are talking today about

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Speaker 2: the history of sampling. Sampling in music, and I mean

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Speaker 2: the term really it does come from, you know, something

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Speaker 2: very similar to what we're talking about with food stuffs,

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Speaker 2: the idea of taking a little snippet and recontextualizing it,

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Speaker 2: you know, putting it in a new light or a

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Speaker 2: separate little cup. Let's just say, so, what exactly is sampling.

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Speaker 2: It is exactly what I said. It's an art. It

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Speaker 2: is a very controversial thing over time, and we're gonna

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Speaker 2: talk all about that, but essentially, it is taking something

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Speaker 2: from a song, whether it be a part that is

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Speaker 2: highly recognizable or a part that no one would ever

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Speaker 2: be able to recognize. Out of context, you can transform it.

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Speaker 2: You can use it as the basis for a tune,

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Speaker 2: you can use it as a refrain of some kind,

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Speaker 2: or just some extra little bit of texture. We also

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Speaker 2: will run into terms like remixes, covers, and interpolations. All

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Speaker 2: of these things play into the fascinating history of sampling

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Speaker 2: and our research associate Extraordinary Jeff went above and beyond

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Speaker 2: on this one.

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Speaker 1: We are really good.

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Speaker 2: This is definitely gonna be a preemptive two parter because

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Speaker 2: there's so much history wrapped up in this, so much

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Speaker 2: cool pop culture. It's just really kind of a whole

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Speaker 2: thing that we're gonna get into, and I think it's

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Speaker 2: something that's close to both you and i've been as

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Speaker 2: music fans and fans of hip hop and music production.

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Speaker 1: This is something that's very close to both of us.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, so say we all you know the

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Speaker 1: I like they're bringing up samples, remixes, covers, interpolation. They

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Speaker 1: all kind of orbit around the same concept, but they

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Speaker 1: apply it in different ways. One thing you noticed, you

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Speaker 1: noted about the way a sample could be transformed. I

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Speaker 1: would say there's also something that's pretty common in hip

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Speaker 1: hop where a sample is sped up or slowed down

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Speaker 1: to hit the tempo of whatever else the producer has

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Speaker 1: in the sonic cauldron. I like what I like the most, though,

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Speaker 1: I gotta confess I love a good sample, But I

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Speaker 1: am a sucker for a cover. And we're not going

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Speaker 1: to talk too much about cover songs day, but folks,

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Speaker 1: I can nearly guarantee you unless you have done some

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Speaker 1: digging already. I can nearly guarantee you that one of

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Speaker 1: your top twenty favorite songs in the world, the version

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Speaker 1: you like is probably a cover totally.

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Speaker 2: Like I mean, you know, we get this out of

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Speaker 2: the way because it really isn't exactly part of the

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Speaker 2: podcast today. But like, for example, of the song without

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Speaker 2: You by Harry Nilssen, you know.

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Speaker 1: I can't leave lieve it is with that.

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Speaker 2: The original version of that is by a band called

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Speaker 2: Bad Finger, who were on Apple Records, was the Beatles label,

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Speaker 2: and they were like really kind of you know, taken

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Speaker 2: under the wing of the Beatles, and they had a

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Speaker 2: couple other hits of their own. But the version of

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Speaker 2: without You by Bad Finger is so incredibly dull, like

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Speaker 2: it's you know, the bones of it are there. It's

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Speaker 2: the same song, but it took Harry Nilssen's kind of

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Speaker 2: soaring vocal and like schmaltzy, you know, overwhelmingly you know,

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Speaker 2: cinematic production with all the strings and stuff to really

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Speaker 2: take that song where it needed to go. Or for example,

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Speaker 2: you know, Jimmy Hendrix's version of All on the watch Tower.

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Speaker 1: Or another example would be and this is one where

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Speaker 1: all the artists come out as winners. I will always

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Speaker 1: love you. Dolly Parton has a beautiful original version of it.

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Speaker 1: Whitney Houston, though, brought it to a new audience and

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Speaker 1: brought it to a level of worldwide renown and fame.

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Speaker 1: And the neat story about that all praise due to

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Speaker 1: Dolly Pardon. I'm legally required to say that, being from Tennessee.

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Speaker 1: The neat part about that is that Dolly Pardon was

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Speaker 1: absolutely over the moon happy with Whitney Houston's version. She's

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Speaker 1: had all this beautiful stuff to say about it. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna get into probably in part two, we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: into some of the more controversial stuff about sampling. But

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Speaker 1: just so we've got all our our guidelines clear here

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Speaker 1: for this monster jam of music. We've talked about a cover,

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Speaker 1: we talked about remixes. We've we mentioned interpolation, but nol

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Speaker 1: I guess the best way for us to say that

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Speaker 1: is an interpolation occurs when you hear some part of

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Speaker 1: a previous song exactly as it is included or woven in.

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Speaker 1: I don't know you. Could you talk about that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you definitely, and it's definitely something you hear a

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Speaker 2: lot in songs today, like you know, for example, and

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Speaker 2: it might sometimes be paired with the sample, so there

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Speaker 2: could be a little vocal nod you know, to the

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Speaker 2: original song that actually either sings the exact melody, and

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Speaker 2: it's not meant to be sneaky. It's kind of meant

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Speaker 2: to be an homage, but it's sort of like it's

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Speaker 2: it's it's using that to add to the kind of

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Speaker 2: gravitas of the song by putting it in the light

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Speaker 2: of that original song, you know, and sort of saying,

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Speaker 2: here's our style on this, but it's not. It's maybe

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Speaker 2: like think of it as like a modernization of like

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Speaker 2: a Beach Boys song.

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Speaker 1: You know, there was a I think there was a Garbage.

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Speaker 2: Song back in the day on their album Versus two

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Speaker 2: point zero where she says, I'm like you're the talk

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Speaker 2: of the town. You're the talko of the that's I

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Speaker 2: think is a is a Beach Boys. Uh, it's like

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Speaker 2: literally a little snippet of a Beach Boys song. But

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Speaker 2: I think this is a really great place to start

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Speaker 2: be because it used to you know, it took advancements

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Speaker 2: in technology for sampling as we know it to even

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Speaker 2: become possible for like manipulation of pre existing sound to

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Speaker 2: even become possible, you know, in the earlier days sampling,

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Speaker 2: you know, for what it was at the time, I

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Speaker 2: guess would have really been more kind of interpolations or nods,

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Speaker 2: like say, like a jazz riff that somebody made really popular.

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Speaker 2: You know, you might hear somebody recontextualize that same riff,

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Speaker 2: you know, in a new piece of music, right because

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Speaker 2: that was the only thing they could do. They had

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Speaker 2: to play it, and it would not have been considered

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Speaker 2: theft necessarily if it was done in a clever way

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Speaker 2: and it was woven into the fabric of kind of

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Speaker 2: a new piece of music. But it wasn't until turntables

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Speaker 2: and you know, the audio tape you know, came around

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Speaker 2: that people were able to take a recording, cut out

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Speaker 2: a little snippet of it literally either loop it, or

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Speaker 2: you know, physically manipulate the media in such a way

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Speaker 2: that you could stack that on top of other pre

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Speaker 2: existing kind of production bits.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, man, and this I like that. We're porting this

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Speaker 1: out too, because sometimes, especially if you're not a hip

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Speaker 1: hop fan, sometimes it's a little too easy for people

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Speaker 1: to say, oh, sampling, you're just taking something and you're

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Speaker 1: taking you know, let's say six seconds of it or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and you're just popping it in and looping it. That

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Speaker 1: does happen. But there really is an art and as

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Speaker 1: science to this, and you can do really really creative

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Speaker 1: dare I say postmodern things. Let's let's start there with

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Speaker 1: the jazz musicians. Okay, so this is not plagiarism. That's

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Speaker 1: an important thing to know. Often when jazz musicians are

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Speaker 1: playing and say the early nineteen hundreds or whatever, they

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Speaker 1: might see another musician they know in the crowd, right,

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Speaker 1: and when they see that person, let's say you're doing

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Speaker 1: your trumpet solo or whatever, they see that person and

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Speaker 1: they might add a little riff that they know that

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Speaker 1: person created as kind of a nod, a mark of respect,

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Speaker 1: and let's play together. This was a really cool thing.

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Speaker 1: And then of course, if you're a jazz aficionado in

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Speaker 1: the crowd and you get it, then what an easter egg.

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Speaker 1: And people love this. That's why they liked seeing the

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Speaker 1: live music, even if they had the records when records

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Speaker 1: became much more common.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this stuff really was a way of rewarding

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Speaker 2: the careful listener or the fan. These are kind of

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Speaker 2: little in jokes almost or just ways of kind of

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Speaker 2: everyone feeling included.

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Speaker 1: Of course, I love that you pointed out that this was.

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Speaker 2: A way of commune to other musicians, but as these

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Speaker 2: things made their way onto records, it's a way of

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Speaker 2: kind of carrying on the legacy of other players. And

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Speaker 2: I don't think at this point people were necessarily clamoring

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Speaker 2: to be like, now that was mine.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: It's certainly not the same as say, like stealing a

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Speaker 2: joke verbatim from another comedian, right, you might maybe borrow

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Speaker 2: the setup of another comedian and then make it your own,

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Speaker 2: you know, do a little twist on it. But this

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Speaker 2: is kind of more like that. You're taking a little

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Speaker 2: thing as a out of respect and saying, look, I

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Speaker 2: think I dig what you're doing, so I'm gonna throw

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Speaker 2: it in here into the mix. And then you got

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Speaker 2: yourself a bit of a got yourself a stew.

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Speaker 1: A sonic stew.

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Speaker 2: And what I wanted to mention too, just about the

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Speaker 2: idea of what you pointed out, people maybe mischaracterizing sampling

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Speaker 2: as like lazy or like in some way just like

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Speaker 2: stealing because you didn't have an idea of your own.

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Speaker 2: I would and if I think you were saying some

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Speaker 2: people think that, we don't think that. I think what

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Speaker 2: we think is it's more like making a collage, you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's more like taking cool things that you see in

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Speaker 2: the world, in nature perhaps, or in different magazines, and

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Speaker 2: cutting it up and put it together to make something

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Speaker 2: that is in fact greater than the sum of their parts.

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Speaker 2: And a French composer named Pierre Schaeffer really pioneered this

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Speaker 2: at the advent of being able to manipulate sound through

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Speaker 2: literal physical manipulation of magnetic tape.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and Arpal Pierre thought of this more like

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Speaker 1: a a study in the art of sound. In the

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Speaker 1: world of literature, the analog to this would be the

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Speaker 1: postmodern movement. Right, you are taking pre existing concepts, stories,

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Speaker 1: and so on, and you are putting them together. I

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Speaker 1: had a really interesting conversation last night about this about

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Speaker 1: art as synthesis, right, And art as synthesis means that

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Speaker 1: every creative mind, whatever they make and whatever given medium,

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Speaker 1: they are taking snippets of their own life experience, of

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Speaker 1: other art and creations that they like. They are analyzing them.

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Speaker 1: They're applying a critical eye and then through this through

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Speaker 1: this interrogation, they synthesize and they make something new out

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Speaker 1: of something existing. Now that sounds a little high faluting

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Speaker 1: for a comedy podcast about history, but I think it's

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Speaker 1: a good way to describe it. And this, Okay, this

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Speaker 1: Pierre guy, by the way, in this regard, he's tremendously important.

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Speaker 1: He's often not acknowledged as widely as he should be.

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Speaker 1: He is the one who is at the bleeding edge

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Speaker 1: of technology at the time. This music concrete is this

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Speaker 1: way of taking that tape music, making this sound collage.

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Speaker 1: And for him, really you can think of him as

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Speaker 1: a guy who created a technique of composing. He wanted

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Speaker 1: to take all these sounds with the technology available and

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Speaker 1: kind of vivisect them, cut him up, put him together,

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Speaker 1: collage them. I think it was later, actually pretty briefly

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Speaker 1: after there was the German electroniche music, right, Yeah, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean sure with folks like craft Work eventually, but Stockhausen

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Speaker 2: there's all these like, you know, synthesizer kind of pioneers

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Speaker 2: who were using you know, combinations of tape machine and

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Speaker 2: like things like I don't know for mely the history

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Speaker 2: of music is riddled, as you would say, Ben with

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Speaker 2: misuse of technology right in the best possible way. Let

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Speaker 2: me let me let me clarify what I mean by that. Like,

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Speaker 2: you know, you take a piece of equipment that was

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Speaker 2: maybe designed for a broadcast purpose, like literally recreating speech,

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Speaker 2: you know, like like magnetic tape or wax cylinders, which,

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Speaker 2: by the way, that's more what Schaeffer and then his

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Speaker 2: partner Pierre Henry were using.

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Speaker 1: This is pre magnetic tape.

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Speaker 2: They were using disc cutters, you know, to act create

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Speaker 2: these kind of recreations of sound they could then manipulate.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't until a little bit later that magnetic tape

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Speaker 2: became widely available. But magnetic tape and things like tone generators,

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Speaker 2: a lot of these were developed by the military, you know,

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Speaker 2: like for example, tape would have been used during World

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Speaker 2: War Two as ways of sending transmissions that could just

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Speaker 2: play on a loop, right, you know, that would have

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Speaker 2: been important, whether it be things like number stations or

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Speaker 2: you know, just warnings or whatever things that would be

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Speaker 2: broadcast out. And I saw the most incredible walk through

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Speaker 2: of Abbey Roads studios in England, and that is you know,

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Speaker 2: ground zero for a lot of evolution of music technology. Again,

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Speaker 2: they figured out how to use it wrong in the

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Speaker 2: best possible ways. And they were talking about the studio

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Speaker 2: managers talking about this one particular tape machine they have

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Speaker 2: there as being you know, basically they went after the

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Speaker 2: war was over, they were able to kind of, you know,

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Speaker 2: some technicians from Abbey Road were able to go and

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Speaker 2: look at some of the military tech that was now

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Speaker 2: kind of considered to be now part of the public record,

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Speaker 2: I guess, you know, and they kind of retro engineered

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Speaker 2: it or reverse engineered it and figured out how to

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Speaker 2: make because they were hearing these transmissions like why does

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Speaker 2: it sound so good? How are they able to make

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Speaker 2: it sound so clean? Because prior to that it would

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Speaker 2: have been on things that were much more low fidelity. Right,

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Speaker 2: So that's exactly what we're talking about here with music Concrete.

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Speaker 2: And then now back to Abbey Road. The Beatles, you know,

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Speaker 2: were fans of these types of techniques, and they even

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Speaker 2: use some of this tape splicing and you know, using

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Speaker 2: different sounds and combining them, you know, like train sounds

399
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Speaker 2: and field recordings of nature and use it on a

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Speaker 2: piece of music called Revolution number nine on.

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Speaker 1: The White album. Yeah. Yeah, And we also see that

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Speaker 1: this this practice sort of gates in the world. In

403
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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one, there's a guy named James Tenney. He

404
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Speaker 1: creates something called Collage number one most creative name, but

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00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 1: it's an important It's an important track because he takes

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Speaker 1: an existing, very popular song, Elvis Presley's recording in blue

407
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Speaker 1: suede shoes, and he clips out parts of it. He

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Speaker 1: moves them around. Anybody who has worked with editing of

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Speaker 1: any sort, you can kind of picture the timeline right

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00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 1: the different tracks he's doing an analog version of that,

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Speaker 1: and then he plays them with this tempo. This is

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00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: pretty experimental. You can hear this. By the way, you

413
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: can find this online and check out what we're talking

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00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: about for pretty much all of these examples, so you

415
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 1: can find them somewhere. There was another one just a

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Speaker 1: few years later by two guys Bill B. Cannon and

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Speaker 1: Dicky Goodman. This was called Flying Saucer, and it was

418
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Speaker 1: like an early version of Girl Talk with a weird

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Speaker 1: UFO agenda, which I love. It's they took a bunch

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Speaker 1: of rock and roll hits, they smushed them together in

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Speaker 1: this creative way, and then they also have a fake

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Speaker 1: news report. Before the term fake news became weaponized they

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Speaker 1: have this like made up comedy sketch news report about

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Speaker 1: aliens coming from outer space, and this becomes popular, I

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Speaker 1: mean not you know, it's not like topping the charts popular,

426
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Speaker 1: but becomes known enough, becomes a novelty to the point

427
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: that lawyers get involved, right, and then we're gonna you know,

428
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 1: obviously this is this is a only the beginning shadow

429
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: of that can of worms being busted wide open. So

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Speaker 1: we start to see music recordings being treated as instruments

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Speaker 1: on their own, right, Like that's sort of what each

432
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 1: individual piece here is. You know, you're making a piece

433
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: of music that's combining different pieces of pre existing stuff,

434
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: and you're kind of using them as elements in some

435
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: sort of arrangement or orchestration. Not necessarily like SYNCD up rhythmically, right,

436
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: These are more like kind of you know, amorphous sort

437
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: of sound collages, you know, that are meant to be

438
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,719
Speaker 1: sort of experiential. But we're not really we don't have

439
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 1: the technology yet necessarily, or maybe no one's thought of

440
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 1: it on how to get things to kind of rhythmically align.

441
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: It wasn't until the invention of a really cool instrument

442
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,959
Speaker 1: called the chamberlain that we really start to see this

443
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 1: idea of manipulation of sound being used as another instrument

444
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 1: in the orchestra and the ensemble. A guy named Harry

445
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 1: Chamberlain invented this electro mechanical keyboard which contained within each

446
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 1: key in this very large, very clunky piece of equipment

447
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: is a loop of tape. And let's just really quickly

448
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,719
Speaker 1: talk about what a tape loop is. Typically, you know,

449
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: tape is a on reels, you know, and it would

450
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: be a.

451
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 2: Song perhaps, you know, if you're in a studio, you

452
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: might mix mixed your song down onto a reel of

453
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 2: tape that has a stereo you know, two tracks, a

454
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 2: left track and a right track. If you make a loop,

455
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 2: you can actually splice together a discrete piece and have

456
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 2: it play over and over again over what's called a

457
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 2: tape head, and that is the part at the bottom

458
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 2: of between the reels, kind of the big chunky part

459
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 2: at the bottom of the tape machine if you've seen

460
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 2: a upright reel to reel. Chamberlain did this per key.

461
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 2: So essentially, each key triggers a loop of tape that

462
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 2: has a single sound, a single note of that sound,

463
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 2: and then when you can play them all together, you

464
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 2: get a chord, and they would be things like flutes

465
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 2: or strings or even the human voice.

466
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: And it's a brilliant application of technology and art. He

467
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: also wasn't really in it for the money. These were

468
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: very expensive to build, they were pretty expensive to buy.

469
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 1: There weren't very many made. But it was interesting because

470
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 1: it sounds like we're talking about nine ancient history, but

471
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: I think the last chamberlains were actually made in the

472
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, In like the early eighties or from what

473
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 1: is it, nineteen seventy nineteen eighty one, there were around

474
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 1: one hundred Chamberlain M one, M two's nim fours made.

475
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 1: So this is this is really cool. I love unique

476
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: musical instruments, and I think this is as neat as

477
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: Ben Franklin's glass harmonica totally.

478
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,479
Speaker 2: And if you want to think about like the sound

479
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 2: of a chamberlain or what we're gonna go on to,

480
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: it's kind of you know what came after it, the melotron.

481
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: Think of the sounds of bands like Electric Light orchestra yelo.

482
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,479
Speaker 2: You know you have like these big sweeping pad sounds

483
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 2: that sound like string.

484
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: It was like, that doesn't sound quite like.

485
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 2: An orchestra something's a little uncanny valley about in a

486
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 2: cool way, or if you know the Smashing Pumpkins album's

487
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: Sorry Siamese Dream, there's a song on it called space

488
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 2: Boy that has this cool kind of like tapey out

489
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 2: of tune, kind of like the choir sound or music

490
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 2: of the band Genesis or Emerson, Lake and Palmer. These

491
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: were all kind of adopters of Oh and of course

492
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 2: Strawberry Fields Forever by the that that is you know,

493
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 2: classic melotron slash Chamberlain tape, you know, keyboard and yeah,

494
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 2: it's a beautiful sound because it is its own thing.

495
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: You know.

496
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 2: It's like it's interesting with music technology, things get invented

497
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 2: kind of in a wave off. What if we replaced

498
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 2: the orchestra, you know, but that it ends up not

499
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 2: being what it becomes. It becomes more like this is

500
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 2: something that's different than the orchestra. The orchestra is the orchestra,

501
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 2: but this gives us it's it has its own unique

502
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: quality to it. And that carried on with the melotron,

503
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 2: which was developed a little bit later. Well, I want

504
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 2: to go back to Electric Light Orchestra, especially to shout

505
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 2: out one of my favorite songs by them turned to

506
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 2: Stone because because the band themselves said that when they

507
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 2: would do this in live performances, the part where it

508
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 2: gets really really fast. I talked with our pal Casey

509
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 2: Pegrin about this at length when I was going through

510
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 2: an el O phase when they get to the really

511
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 2: really fast part of the lyrics. They said they had

512
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 2: about an eighty percent success rate in live shows just

513
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 2: getting through it and getting every word.

514
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: So shout out to you Elo. They didn't replace the

515
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: vocals there, they did my hand or by a voice

516
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: box every time. Yeah. Melotron though, So with our shoutout

517
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: to Yello, let's talk about the melotron, we need to

518
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: shout out a guy named Bill franzen Bill franzen Is

519
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: starts off as a money dude. He's an investor, and

520
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: he says, look, I'm going to get two of these

521
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: Chamberlain instruments. It's nineteen sixty two. I'm gonna get him

522
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: shipped to the United Kingdom. I'm going to make a

523
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 1: deal with a company that was called Brad Mattock Limited

524
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: later street Lee Electronics, and we're going to mass produce

525
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: these with the economy of scale. We're going to give

526
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: it a new name the melotron, and this is where

527
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: they make like the very first melotron that you could buy,

528
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: the Mark one is essentially a clone of the Chamberlain.

529
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: You could say it's a cover of the instrument. This

530
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: of course, they start to evolve and make their own innovations.

531
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: They get the Melotron in four hundred, the M four

532
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: thousand came out in two thousand and seven. And want

533
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: to shout out a couple of different cool blogs we found.

534
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: Let's let's give a shout out to a brief history

535
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: of sampling on tommin dot de. This was this was

536
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: where we got a lot of cool information. There's also

537
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: some videos you could watch of people playing Chamberlain's doing

538
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: the disc cutting for music concrete and then also playing

539
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: a melotron.

540
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 2: Melotrons are neat because, like you said, they really are

541
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 2: just a carryover of the Chamberlain and and you know,

542
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 2: the first ones were clones, and they started getting a

543
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 2: little more elaborate where you could have multiple tape sets

544
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 2: in each one, and that may have been the case

545
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 2: with the Chamberlain as well, but I kind of have

546
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 2: a sense that would have been much more limited I've seen.

547
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 2: I think maybe it was a Melotron M four hundred,

548
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 2: like one of the maybe like eighties versions, but it

549
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,479
Speaker 2: has a knob on it that has a real clicky knob,

550
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 2: and it basically it does a shift, a physical shift

551
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 2: of some kind of the tape head over to a

552
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 2: different set of tapes. So I think on each one

553
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 2: of these you could maybe have like four sounds. And

554
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 2: the beauty of it now is obviously we're going to

555
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 2: get into digital stuff a little later. All of these

556
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 2: tapes have been archived and stored, so the Melotron Company

557
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 2: now has what's called the M four thousand and D,

558
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 2: which is a digital version of the melotron. They're still

559
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 2: quite expensive, but they're not the same as like having

560
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 2: this massive behemoth, you know, full of magnetic tape and

561
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: tape heads and you know, electro mechanical equipment. But they

562
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 2: have very faithfully sample do their own stuff, and you

563
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 2: can get on one of these melotron in four thousand d's.

564
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 2: They even have mini versions and there's several different models.

565
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,959
Speaker 2: You can get every single one of these sounds that

566
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 2: would have been throughout the history of the melotron and

567
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 2: the Chamberlain pretty cool and a lot of them too.

568
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 2: Ben would have been little loops of like a band,

569
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: like little jazz bits, you know, a little like background

570
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 2: music or like swing jazz. And you can get all

571
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 2: of those two. I have a few plug in versions

572
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 2: of them. I don't have an actual melatron, I would

573
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 2: love one, but you can get them in plug in

574
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 2: form as well, and they're all very meticulously recreated from

575
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 2: the original tapes.

576
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,719
Speaker 1: Pretty cool stuff. The December is third. Remember they use

577
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: they use a melotron, and that's what we're talking about,

578
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: is almost like a personality or an accent that it

579
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: can give a band, right or a song.

580
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: It has a certain vintage quality that you can't get

581
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 2: any other way.

582
00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: Right, And we are talking about a lot of very

583
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: smart people. First they're doing kind of live samples for

584
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: each other, honestly, and then we're building contraptions right to

585
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: utilize the latest technology. To your point, we haven't gone

586
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: digital yet, but fear not, it's on the way, right.

587
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 2: We're not into digital yet, And I just want to

588
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 2: say too, up to this point, we've largely been talking

589
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 2: about sampling. I mean, aside from some of the music

590
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 2: conqurette stuff, as like recreating sounds of instruments in a

591
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 2: way that is easily recallable, right, Like so the Melatron,

592
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,479
Speaker 2: it's not sampling as we know today in terms of

593
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 2: like cutting out a piece of popular music and making

594
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 2: it into something new. But these these devices are still

595
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 2: called samplers. And you know keyboards that say have meticulously

596
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 2: recreated multi recordings of a drum kit or like a

597
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 2: guitar or whatever, those are still called samplers. So there

598
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 2: are kind of two sides of the sampling. And then

599
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 2: sometimes people kind of lump it all into the idea

600
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 2: of taking someone's song and stealing it is not It's

601
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 2: way more than that, that's all we're trying to say.

602
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, like we said earlier, it is more of a

603
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: creative act. And that's something I think we'll keep re

604
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: emphasizing to here because we're obviously team sampler. We're advocates

605
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: for this practice and this philosophy. Quick note too, on

606
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: the on that earlier statement, the when we say sampling

607
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 1: of these recorded instruments, we're counting vocals as an instrument absolutely,

608
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: because that's where you hear a choir tones or you know, yeah, yeah,

609
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: that's one of the other things get to all right,

610
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 1: it's the nineteen seventies it's nineteen seventy one. There's a

611
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 1: musician named John Congo's with a K out of South Africa,

612
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: and John is, according to the Guinness Book World Records,

613
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: not the most reliable source. Just being honest, John is

614
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: the creator of the first song to use a sample.

615
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: He takes a sample of a drumming track, an African

616
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: drumming track, and uses it in his song He's Gonna

617
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: Step on You Again. Okay. Now, people, even people at Guinness,

618
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: argue about this because whenever you're talking creative acts, it

619
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: can get kind of muddied, right, parallel thinking, right, right.

620
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 2: I mean, this is like the stuff was out there

621
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 2: at this point to do these kinds of things. It

622
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 2: was just who was going to do it first and

623
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 2: the most popular version of it, I would argue, and

624
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 2: I think we would both agree that this was probably

625
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 2: happening in all over the place. People were trying experimenting

626
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 2: with this stuff. That's just how humans work.

627
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so there's all right, brief side note on

628
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: the Guinness Book of World Records, which we could totally

629
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: do an episode on the Guinness Book of World Records.

630
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: Is a lot of fun, but is by its own admission,

631
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: not perfect. It was actually made to settle bar disputes

632
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: when people would be drinking and arguing in bars. So

633
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: it's not exactly a scientific work, but it is really

634
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: cool and the folks working there do their best. They

635
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: do a lot of fun things. They take it seriously,

636
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: but in some cases it can be difficult to figure

637
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: out the real first of something, So you will find

638
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: a lot of people saying Guinness might have gotten this

639
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: one wrong and that the real first song to use

640
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: a sample in this way was Mike Stephenson or Michelle Bernauld,

641
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: a French composer, was his song Burundi Black. It also

642
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: has a sample of a group of drummers. These are

643
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 1: from the Ingoma tribe in Burundi. This appeared on a

644
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight album Music of Burundi. This guy Mike,

645
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: he adds guitar, he adds keyboard, and he creates this

646
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: song Burundi Black. So it's kind of like in hip

647
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 1: hop where you might take a nice, a tasty beat,

648
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 1: just the drum sample from it, and then boom you

649
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: add the organ, Boom, you add some vocal samples of

650
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 1: someone going oh yeah, are youre ah yeah, and then

651
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: someone else being like okay, and now it's suddenly a

652
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: different song.

653
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's it is very transform and then that's

654
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 2: we're also going to sorry transformative. We're going to get

655
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 2: into that whole debate too as to when is it

656
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 2: like okay to borrow like this and when are you

657
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 2: putting yourself in serious legal jeopardy if you end up

658
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 2: with a hit on your hands. The very basis of

659
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 2: technically not technically truly belongs to somebody else. And it

660
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 2: also to your point earlier, Ben about synthesis, this is

661
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 2: all a big conversation about just the nature of creativity,

662
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,399
Speaker 2: you know, and like where we where ideas come from,

663
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 2: and like you know, what is and is not off limits,

664
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 2: and like with the finite nature of the human imagination

665
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 2: and all of that good stuff. So seventy one, you're right,

666
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 2: we have this, Brendi Black. It's a loop of this, this,

667
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 2: this drumming, this kind of field recording, you know, from

668
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 2: indigenous drummers, from the Ngomont tribe drums to your point earlier, Ben,

669
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 2: as well, you know, they're some of the easiest things

670
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 2: to sample because they're cyclical and repeating by their very nature.

671
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 2: So you you know, this point we would be talking

672
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 2: about people probably making actual tape loops, you know, perhaps

673
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 2: recording it onto a real to reel that we said,

674
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 2: and like you know, the beatles of this all the

675
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 2: time where you are are Pink Floyd, you know all

676
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 2: any band that uses this kind of sound, you know,

677
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 2: this kind of like looping tape y kind of stuff.

678
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 2: You can actually just take a real to reel tape

679
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 2: machine or like a portable Nagra tape machine and you

680
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 2: can make the loop and you splice it together with

681
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 2: splicing tape and you can make a seamless loop that'll

682
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 2: just go over and over again. You can even do

683
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 2: stuff where you take the tape, spool it off of

684
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 2: the the real and loop it around like a microphone

685
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 2: stand or some believe and used like beer bottles that

686
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 2: they would hold, you know, and then that that loop.

687
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 2: Those are usually for more amorphous, less precise loops. But

688
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 2: to make a really precise rhythmic glube, you have to

689
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 2: cut it like really really accurately and then have it

690
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 2: loop like that. So this is all done by hand

691
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 2: with with raizors, you know, and and tape using these

692
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 2: splicing blocks. It was like film reels exists very it's

693
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 2: exactly the same. And in fact, film editing, you know,

694
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,439
Speaker 2: there's a there's an aspect of audio editing as well,

695
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 2: because you're you're you're splicing. You have the audio track

696
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 2: and the video track and they're both, you know, videos

697
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,240
Speaker 2: on film, the audio is on magnetic tape.

698
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 1: And you know, I.

699
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 2: I'm not going to purport to be able to understand

700
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 2: how magnetic tape works exactly, or like how graglets were

701
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,240
Speaker 2: on a vinyl. It's magic. As far as I'm concerned,

702
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 2: I understand the basis of it. I mean, it is a

703
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 2: way of storing data. You know, you use magnetic tape

704
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 2: to store data. So that's the best that I can.

705
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 2: You know, essentially, audio is just capturing sound waves through

706
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 2: a microphone. That is a way of picking up vibrations

707
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 2: on the air. You know, air carries sound their different

708
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 2: wave forms. You know, if you use a synthesizer, the

709
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 2: purest waveforms are just like a saw tooth wave or

710
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 2: a sine wave or whatever. Complex waveforms are when all

711
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 2: those things combine together and create these like really interesting harmonics.

712
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 2: And that's literally what sound is. It's not much more

713
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 2: complicated than that. And then you're using various electronic components

714
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:34,760
Speaker 2: to translate the vibrations that microphone is picking up, combine

715
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 2: them with other ones, and then store them on a

716
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 2: thing that can be replayed. But we're getting right up

717
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 2: on the advent of the first digital sampler.

718
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's step back to sew up RUNDI Black.

719
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: It comes out, It does pretty well. It sells one

720
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five thousand copies in the United Kingdom,

721
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: and generally those two guys, Mike Stevenson and John Congos,

722
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: those two guys will be mentioned as the first people

723
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: to use a sample in a song. Right. If we

724
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: look at nineteen seventy six, this is where we see

725
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: the dawn of the digital the computer music melodion, which

726
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 1: sounds like a really cool job. It's actually the first

727
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: digital sampler. It's monophonic, meaning it doesn't have those two channels.

728
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 1: It's vented by a guy named Harry Mindel. And this

729
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: is a contraption. I love the word contraption. I don't

730
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: think it has negative connotations. I think it should be

731
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: used more often. This thing is a contraption. It's heavy.

732
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 1: If you look at it, and you pull pictures of

733
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: this up pretty easily, Folks, if you look at it,

734
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: it's like an old school cathode ray nineteen sixties television

735
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: looking thing, and it's got a keyboard, and then under

736
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: it it's got something that's about the size of a

737
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: household microwave that is the processor. Remember this is before

738
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: a lot of miniaturization of technology, so this is a

739
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: charm and uh and people start using it. One of

740
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 1: the most famous early adopters is the man myth legend

741
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:12,439
Speaker 1: Stevie Wonder on his nineteen seventy nine album Journey through

742
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: the Secret Life of Plants, which still is a great name.

743
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and folks like Herbie Hancock, you know, would have

744
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 2: been aware. Anyone that was like at a certain level

745
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 2: of fame. You know, they would have had first crack

746
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 2: in these kind of things because they could afford it.

747
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 2: They could afford it or not only they were probably

748
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 2: just let allowed to use it, just so that the

749
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 2: manufacturer and like the creators they needed to get co

750
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 2: signed by like these big artists like Mogue for example,

751
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 2: Moge synthesizers. They were not popular until you had folks

752
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 2: like Emerson, Lake and Palmer bringing these giant things out

753
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 2: on tour. And then you know when they started making

754
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 2: more miniaturized versions of them, like with the Mini mog

755
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 2: you started to see the Beatles using them on records,

756
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 2: you know, on Abbey Road for example, And that's what

757
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 2: leads to these things becoming household names because these these

758
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 2: megastars you know, are using them. Same with this one,

759
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 2: the computer music melodeon, and essentially all it is, I mean,

760
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 2: we think about computers now how easy it is for

761
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 2: us to record and playback sounds and do video and

762
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 2: do any number of things that would have been absolutely

763
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 2: just impossible to do at the time. All it is

764
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 2: is basically the same concept as that melotron. Each key

765
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 2: plays back a sound. It can be a set of

766
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,359
Speaker 2: sounds where each key is just a note in a

767
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 2: particular instrument that's recorded to each you know, key position,

768
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 2: and so you can play back sets. But then you

769
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,240
Speaker 2: could do things like I don't know if you remember,

770
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 2: speaking of Stevie Wonder, there's an episode of The Cosby

771
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 2: Show where Stevie Wonder is in it and they're in

772
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 2: the studio with Stevie Wonder and he's showing THEO or

773
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 2: whatever whichever character was, I can't recall his sampler, his keyboard,

774
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 2: and he's like he records his voice into it and

775
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 2: he goes jamming on the one jamming on the one

776
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 2: drumn on the w DR. It's pitched. You can record

777
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 2: it and then pitch it. Each key takes it down

778
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 2: a certain interval of musical steps.

779
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: So you could.

780
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 2: Really create things that were impossible to do beforehand. Oh yeah,

781
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 2: and this, So the way this stuff proliferates is that

782
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 2: you're talking about rarefied air right with these musicians. So

783
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 2: once one person does something really creative and interesting with it,

784
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 2: everybody else wants to explore. It's not necessarily in a

785
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:28,760
Speaker 2: competitive way. It's more like, imagine you are a painter

786
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 2: and one of your buddies who is also a painter,

787
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,879
Speaker 2: discovers a new color right right, and then you it's

788
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 2: not you being a jerk, it's you saying, I want

789
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 2: to paint with that color too, which I think is

790
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 2: pretty amazing. And we're getting to one of we're not

791
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 2: doing you I want to jump the gut. But we're

792
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,879
Speaker 2: getting to one of my favorite parts of music history here.

793
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 2: We've got to earn our way to it. We've got

794
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 2: to talk about some more of these digital innovations. Man, Like,

795
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,720
Speaker 2: there's still really nice ments. Yeah every time.

796
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's still yeah, there's still like okay, like the

797
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 1: oh the fair Light computer musical instrument called the Fairlight CMI,

798
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: that's what it says for a computer musical instrument. Uh.

799
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: This was polyphonic. It's a digital synthesizer and it had

800
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,280
Speaker 1: it was like an early version of a one stop shop,

801
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: you know. It kind of I think, I don't know.

802
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: It reminds me of that technology that came out back

803
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: in back in the eighties where they had early versions

804
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:42,240
Speaker 1: of like smartphones or early versions yeah, like touchscreen stuff,

805
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 1: and it just never caught on because it was very expensive.

806
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: But this thing, the fair Light, had a digital audio

807
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: workstation and it also had a touch screen.

808
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 2: Which is essentially Yeah, we think of digital audio workstations

809
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 2: today as like any computer software that allows you to

810
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:03,919
Speaker 2: make multi track recordings like Adobe Audition. Adobe Audition would

811
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 2: be a digital audio workstation. The real popular ones for

812
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: music production things like pro Tools or Logic Logic Pro

813
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 2: you know on Apple, or there's free ones, just one

814
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 2: called Reaper that people really like.

815
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: Fruity loops.

816
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 2: Back in the day, loos is dope, fretty lous is

817
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 2: really and actually there's fl studio is still quite popular.

818
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: People still use it.

819
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 2: There's lots of different ones, and there are lots of

820
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:26,839
Speaker 2: debates over which one is the best one. I love

821
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 2: the one called Ableton Live that is very loop based

822
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,359
Speaker 2: and it's a real creative tool. A lot of that's

823
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 2: It's made by a German company and it is kind

824
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,839
Speaker 2: of the go to for electronic musicians. I've always loved

825
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 2: it for its kind of creative sketch pad ability, but

826
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 2: I've recently started using Logic as well for band more

827
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 2: band kind of recordings.

828
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: But the fair Light CMI really was sort of an.

829
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 2: Early version of that because you could record audio into

830
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 2: it and have it playback more than one thing at

831
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 2: the same time you hit on it. Ben the idea

832
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 2: of it being polyphonic, and I actually, when I was

833
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 2: doing my Stevie Wonder story earlier, I sort of was

834
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 2: incorrect because the melodion was monophonic, meaning you can only

835
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 2: play back one sound at a time, which isn't you

836
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 2: know that's a limitation of you know, certain instruments that's

837
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 2: actually done always a bad thing, Like certain synthesizers are monophonic,

838
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,399
Speaker 2: meaning you can only play lead lines, you can only

839
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 2: play melodies. You can't play chords, but on the fair

840
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 2: Light you could. And I've actually seen one of these

841
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 2: in person. They're white, they're very stark and futuristic kind

842
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 2: of looking, and that touch screen was huge. And so

843
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,879
Speaker 2: then you had folks like Quincy Jones using these again,

844
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 2: Herbie Hancock, Peter Gabriel. You know, any eighties kind of

845
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,879
Speaker 2: luminary would have gotten their hands on one of these.

846
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,759
Speaker 2: And that's where you know that orchestra hit sound been

847
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 2: that first came out on the fair Light, And legend

848
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 2: has it that it was actually a sample of a

849
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,840
Speaker 2: Stravinsky performance of the Rights of Spring, and that sound

850
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 2: has been put on cassio keyboards and you know, like

851
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 2: cheapy kind of like you know a little you know,

852
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 2: learn how to play kind of keyboards ever since. And

853
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 2: now it's being brought back a lot and a lot

854
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 2: of this like hyper pop music and stuff that is

855
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 2: very kind of referential of these these older periods. But

856
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 2: that is a sample of an orchestra that you know,

857
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 2: when you get a keyboard like this, all of the

858
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 2: sounds on it, technically you're allowed to.

859
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 1: Use them, right Otherwise they wouldn't be on the machine

860
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: unless you're buying something homebrew, which you can. You can

861
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,959
Speaker 1: find people who will make these things for you. They're

862
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: mad scientists, and I am in love with every one

863
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: of them. The big thing that happens now is this

864
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 1: economy of scale. Right as technological innovations occur, unless somebody's

865
00:48:55,800 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: playing some reindeer games, inevitably a piece of technology will

866
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: become affordable to more and more people. That's just the

867
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: pattern we see throughout history totally, unless someone's trying to

868
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 1: interfere with that, like in the world of nuclear weaponry.

869
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 2: Well frankly with creativity. It's kind of the pattern you

870
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:20,240
Speaker 2: want because it is a It is the democratization of creation.

871
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 1: You know. It doesn't mean that only.

872
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 2: The super rich can go to acting school and become

873
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 2: you know, a star an actor, or go to music school.

874
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 2: It now means that through YouTube videos, tutorials and free

875
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 2: software garage band fruity loops, anyone can make the can

876
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,359
Speaker 2: get their ideas out, and it just means we have Sure,

877
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:41,879
Speaker 2: it means we have a lot more to sift through,

878
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 2: but usually the really good stuff rises to the top

879
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 2: by its own merit. And I think, I think, yeah, hopefully,

880
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 2: but in a perfect world, I really think that that's

881
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 2: it's it's there's nothing, there's nothing greater than anybody being

882
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,760
Speaker 2: able to exercise some creative muscle, you know, because anybody

883
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 2: could do it if they had the tools. That That's

884
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 2: why I'm a huge proponent of the democratization of knowledge, Right,

885
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 2: it should not be restricted because it is powerful. And

886
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 2: knowledge is another type of technology, I would argue because

887
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 2: a lot of it's human created. Well, technology, writing is technology,

888
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 2: you know. I mean the way to spread these ideas

889
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 2: is in and of itself technology too, you know.

890
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so this this idea of things becoming affordable,

891
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:25,240
Speaker 1: this is key, This is the next problem to solve.

892
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:31,800
Speaker 1: It happens in the early nineteen eighties. We see digital

893
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: samplers become much more affordable, much more accessible. This is

894
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: the era of the MPC getting on the scene, the

895
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 1: SP twelve hundred, the EBUSP twelve hundred, These things all

896
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: of a sudden seem to be everywhere. And people who

897
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: have really creative minds that could not afford an orchestra,

898
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 1: that could not you know, maybe have the time and

899
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: energy and cap all to play producer and say, let

900
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: me go find somebody who has a French horn, right,

901
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 1: and can spend the afternoon doing this riff with me.

902
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: Now they are able to become the authors of their

903
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: own sonic destiny. And Folks, we did say this was

904
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 1: going to be a two parter, so we we actually

905
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: went a little further and decided we were going to

906
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: hold the rest for part two. No, I can't wait

907
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: till we get to hip hop, because we were going

908
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:30,800
Speaker 1: to talk just about the some of the controversies of sampley.

909
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: But I think maybe we say a good thing too

910
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 1: for parts Yeah, No, I undercent me.

911
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:35,719
Speaker 2: And the thing is, like like I said at the

912
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:37,399
Speaker 2: top of the show, this is something that's very near

913
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 2: and dear to both of us and Max as well,

914
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 2: and so we're gonna we've got a lot of our

915
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 2: own little size to share, you know, because this is

916
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 2: something that's very close to us, that we've kind of

917
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 2: grown up with as well, and you know, as fans

918
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 2: of all kinds of music and music production, we got

919
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 2: a lot to say about the subject, and we're happy

920
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 2: that you're along for the ride with us. Meanwhile, huge

921
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 2: thanks to research associated Shordinaire Jeff Bartlett for this absolutely

922
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 2: whopping research grief on on topic that we are all

923
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 2: super super excited to talk about Jonathan Strickland, the Quistor,

924
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 2: Long may he rain in anonymity hopefully yes, And Big

925
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 2: Big Things, of course, as always, inevitably have repeater Bowmans

926
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 2: in every show. Big Thanks to Max Williams, thanks to

927
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 2: Jonathan Strickland, thanks to Chris Frosciotis, thanks to Eve's Jeffcoat,

928
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 2: thanks to The Grave Digger, and thanks to Caleb Blood.

929
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 1: Those last two are from Monsters Jam.

930
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:41,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts

931
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 2: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

932
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 2: you listen to your favorite shows