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Speaker 1: So if there's anything I've learned from this crazy story,

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Speaker 1: it's that it's one thing to catch the thief, but

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Speaker 1: it's another to understand one. Because everything Vasilis Paliocostas does,

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Speaker 1: it's drama. Okay, He's holding up banks with Kalisa Covs,

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Speaker 1: he's leading police on dukes of hazard style chases, escaping

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Speaker 1: jails by helicopter, abducting millionaires, and somehow he's winning praise

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Speaker 1: while doing it. And that's actually the part. I can't

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Speaker 1: get over the praise. By now, We've interviewed almost what

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Speaker 1: like fifty people for this podcast, and the praise is

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Speaker 1: something we keep hearing no matter where we go or

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Speaker 1: like who we talk to, from city folks in Athens

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Speaker 1: to police officers on the hunt, to even Alexander Hayte,

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Speaker 1: the man he kidnapped.

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Speaker 2: Frankly, it got us all wondering.

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Speaker 1: Is Vasili's just that good? Is his charm that irresistible?

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Speaker 1: I mean, why are there so many sympathizers or is

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Speaker 1: there just something about Greece that makes people all over

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Speaker 1: the country.

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Speaker 2: Just want to cheer for outlaws.

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Speaker 1: So in one of our favorite investigative reporters offered to

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Speaker 1: help us out. We obviously couldn't pass it up, so

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Speaker 1: we sent him on a rambling adventure from the den

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Speaker 1: of anarchists with this have.

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Speaker 3: Been a place of tany of Prussos who come and

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Speaker 3: to hang out or not really from what we was

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Speaker 3: got today to.

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Speaker 1: A holy mountain rumored to hide bad guys.

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Speaker 4: If somebody was running from the little would they come ahead?

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Speaker 1: Do you think Honda, in search of clues for our

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Speaker 1: modern Robin.

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Speaker 5: Hood, just said that he had a client many years ago,

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Speaker 5: and apparently it was by those questions.

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Speaker 1: I'm Miles Gray for iHeart Podcasts and Kaleidoscope. This is

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Speaker 1: the Good Thing, Chapter one, Sympathy for the Devil. Greece

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Speaker 1: is a country of contradictions. On one hand, it's super old,

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Speaker 1: you know, after all, it is the cradle of democracy,

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Speaker 1: and at the same time it's super young. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the modern state isn't even two centuries old. Also, Greece

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Speaker 1: is technically part of Europe, but culturally it's more similar

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Speaker 1: to the Balkan states. So everywhere you turn there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of push and pull, and that has made Greece

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Speaker 1: a very difficult place for a government to unify what

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Speaker 1: works in one region doesn't always work in another so

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Speaker 1: Greece has kind of become a Petri dish of descent.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the country claims to be the birthplace of anarchism,

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Speaker 1: and it's home to anarchist communes and autonomous neighborhoods. There

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Speaker 1: are even entire islands that thumb their nose at the state.

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Speaker 1: These are the kinds of places where people don't just

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Speaker 1: cheer for Vasilis Paliocostas, they agree with him. One day

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Speaker 1: we got chatting about all of this with our friend

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Speaker 1: Nick Nachos. He's an investigative reporter, a Greek, albeit one

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Speaker 1: who grew up abroad, and it turns out he's been

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Speaker 1: obsessed with the Vasilis Palocostas story for years. He thought

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Speaker 1: that to understand Paliocostas, we needed to understand Greece, and

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Speaker 1: not the picture postcard version with the white buildings and

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Speaker 1: the beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Ocean, but some of its most remote corners.

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Speaker 1: And lucky for us, Nick has contacts all over the

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Speaker 1: country and he specializes in exploring the many corners of

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Speaker 1: the globe. Like when we first made contact, he was

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Speaker 1: reporting in Democratic Republic of the Congo. Then he was

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Speaker 1: in a nickel mine in Indonesia, and then the next

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Speaker 1: time we pick up the phone, he's in Yemen. So

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Speaker 1: while George and Christina are hunting down leeds in Tricola,

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Speaker 1: we sent Nick and our producer cost Us to Athens

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Speaker 1: with the mission to explore some of the remotest parts

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Speaker 1: of Greece in search of outlaws and outcasts and hopes

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Speaker 1: that though find what makes Palio Costa so alluring. So

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Speaker 1: for this episode, I'm throwing it over to Nick and

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Speaker 1: Costas and letting them tell the rest of the story.

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Speaker 6: So we just come into Exarchia.

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Speaker 7: I'm starting out in Athens, and right next to the

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Speaker 7: bars and cafes where Greece's most powerful people gather in

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Speaker 7: central Athens, there's a place where the shadow of Vasilis

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Speaker 7: Paliocosa salooms large, a community called exad Here. So Cossus

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Speaker 7: and I decided to go there.

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Speaker 3: You understand that you're coming into exad Here when you

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Speaker 3: see the police trucks on the side.

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Speaker 8: Of the street.

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Speaker 9: Yes, so those are riot policemans.

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Speaker 3: You have stories of friends who visited Athens for the

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Speaker 3: summer and took eb and B's and Exa here and

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Speaker 3: ended up you know, being tag asked, which is always

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Speaker 3: a good part of the holiday.

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Speaker 5: I guess.

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Speaker 2: Exarkia has been at the center of Greece's anti establishment

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Speaker 2: movement since the seventies. In fact, it's one of the

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Speaker 2: oldest anarchist neighborhoods in all of Europe. We're here because

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Speaker 2: we're hoping this place can give us some insight into

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Speaker 2: the culture that turned Vasilis into a folk hero. We

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Speaker 2: park and start our walk through the neighborhood, hoping this

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Speaker 2: place can give us insight into the culture that turned

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Speaker 2: Vasilis into a folk hero. One of the first things

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Speaker 2: we notice is that there's graffiti everywhere. There are signs

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Speaker 2: for collectives and communist bookstores, anarchist slogans and posters plastered

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Speaker 2: down alleyways.

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Speaker 7: All cops are bussing or its go home. I still

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Speaker 7: fucking hate the nationalist ideas give birth to graveyards. The

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Speaker 7: various politics are, to say the least in your face.

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Speaker 6: We're trying to find this cafe that we lant about

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Speaker 6: from one of our sources.

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Speaker 8: So so Celes Cafe is the anarchist stronghold within the

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Speaker 8: anergist stronghold.

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Speaker 5: But when you google it on Yelp, the reviews are

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Speaker 5: all one star because apparently it's monitored by the security services,

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Speaker 5: that it's full of cops.

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Speaker 7: The people running this place are friendly, but they do

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Speaker 7: not want us recording. That're afraid our microphones might pick

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Speaker 7: up conversations the regulars are having, so we turn off

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Speaker 7: our mics. We order beers, and we chat and people

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Speaker 7: tell us about the neighborhood, how it's changed, and it's true,

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Speaker 7: just ten or fifteen years ago, visitors would be worn

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Speaker 7: to avoid exad here. But what everyone really wants to

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Speaker 7: talk about is how the state wants to gentrify Exadia

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Speaker 7: out of existence. In twenty nineteen, after the new center

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Speaker 7: right government came in, things started to change and people

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Speaker 7: started feeling that, in fact, this gentrification was a political

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Speaker 7: tool to get rid of the anti government activity.

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Speaker 2: But as we sat there, it was hard for me

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Speaker 2: to see the cafe as a threat. It's just a

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Speaker 2: place to have a beer and some strong espresso, and

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Speaker 2: yet the ideas that get shared in a space like

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Speaker 2: this have made it a place authorities fear. So I

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Speaker 2: just went to the bathroom and there was a very

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Speaker 2: telling slogan scribbled on the wall. It read, if you

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Speaker 2: want robbers make banks and if you want criminals make laws. Frankly,

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Speaker 2: it sounds exactly like something Vasilies would say. Actually, it

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Speaker 2: is something he says in his book. He says democracy

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Speaker 2: needs enemies to sustain itself, and it invents them by

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Speaker 2: inventing crime.

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Speaker 9: Do you want to go in, like.

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Speaker 4: If you want to be the parking Okay, let's go.

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Speaker 9: We just have time to.

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Speaker 7: Eventually we leave the cafe and head towards Exactia's main square.

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Speaker 5: A lot of riot police and what is it?

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Speaker 8: It's a Tuesday night.

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Speaker 9: There's no there's nothing happening.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, because there are noise, there's no no one on

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Speaker 5: the street.

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Speaker 9: There's more crops than there are citizens.

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Speaker 7: There's been visible tension here for a while now, and

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Speaker 7: it goes beyond anger over development. Back in December two

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Speaker 7: thousand and eight, a police officer killed a fifteen year

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Speaker 7: old kid named Alexandroskirigoropolos, who was hanging out with his

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Speaker 7: friends in the neighborhood. Within ours, demonstrators filled the streets

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Speaker 7: of Exadia and violence escalated quickly. Crowds through rocks, fireworks,

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Speaker 7: hugged molotov cocktails at police cars. As news spread to

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Speaker 7: other Greek cities. Protests and riots followed. Mass demonstrations has

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Speaker 7: led to mass arrests, arseness, lit up banks, police fired

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Speaker 7: tear gas, anarchists deathonated firebombs, and swat teams were called.

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Speaker 7: In what began as a reaction to a teenager's murder

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Speaker 7: grew into an expression of more widespread anger at police brutality,

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Speaker 7: at Greece's political elite, at the financial tsunami slowly consuming

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Speaker 7: the country. Frankly, the kinds of things that would make

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Speaker 7: Vasilis Palocosta say, I told you so. Our sound guy Alexis,

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Speaker 7: who has more than a bit of sympathy for anarchists,

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Speaker 7: remembers when police had flooded exactly here.

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Speaker 9: Up until three years ago, you didn't really have police here,

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Speaker 9: A lot of undercover police, but not really police in uniform.

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Speaker 4: And now it feels sort of more like under occupation exact.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, certainly, if peace under occupation doesn't feel it is underratuation.

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Speaker 7: Clearly things are different now. But before there were cops

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Speaker 7: on every corner, and before he became the most wanted

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Speaker 7: man in the country. I have to wonder if Fasilis

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Speaker 7: Paliucostas would have felt at home here.

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Speaker 4: Would this have been a place that Palocostus would come

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Speaker 4: and hang out.

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Speaker 5: I'd be surprised if he'd never been here before. I'd

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Speaker 5: very very surprised if he wasn't intimately familiar with these

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Speaker 5: streets or with the people who live here. I mean,

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Speaker 5: this is the hotbed of the ideology and the culture

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Speaker 5: that celebrates by low Costas.

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Speaker 2: Not everyone in Greece celebrates by Loo Costas. There's definitely

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Speaker 2: some animosity towards him from both politicians and cops. What's

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Speaker 2: really interesting is that there's this shared understanding of why

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Speaker 2: Greek people are so sympathetic towards this culture of rebellion.

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Speaker 2: Before we started on our tour of the country's nooks

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Speaker 2: and crannies looking for Greek dissidents, before we even came

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Speaker 2: to excite here, we reached out to some of the

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Speaker 2: most powerful people we could think of, and surprisingly, a

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Speaker 2: former foreign deputy Minister, Marcus Boulleries and the former Prime

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Speaker 2: Minister of Greeks, George Papandreau, both sat down to talk.

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Speaker 10: With us and let's say, would you like something doing.

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Speaker 7: When pap Andreu approached us, I was surprised at how

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Speaker 7: tall he was. He's got an impressive mustache and his

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Speaker 7: vibe is professorial.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, let's start with this big question, why the goold

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Speaker 4: pay for?

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Speaker 9: Why does this exist?

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Speaker 10: There has been a culture in Greece of you know,

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Speaker 10: people who have stood up to authority, people who are

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Speaker 10: loan you know fighters or resistance fighters. So this is

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Speaker 10: part of the part of the Greek history and tradition

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Speaker 10: and culture to somehow resisting the higher power, resisting authoritarianism,

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Speaker 10: resisting a dictatorship occupation.

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Speaker 7: This was a point we actually heard from multiple people

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Speaker 7: that Greeks, because of their history with occupation with the

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Speaker 7: Ottomans and the Hunda, are by default defiant. Of course,

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Speaker 7: Greece has a history, a very recent history at that

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Speaker 7: of government officials abusing power for personal gain. In twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 7: the government's top anti corruption watchdog reported that almost every

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Speaker 7: contract between the government and private corporations involved kickbacks. The

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Speaker 7: company Siemens in particular, had budgeted ten to fifteen million

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Speaker 7: dollars every year just to bribe Greek officials. To say

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Speaker 7: the least, this has compelled people to take a skeptical

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Speaker 7: view of the government and large corporations make for.

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Speaker 10: These complex financial systems, banks and so on, have made

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Speaker 10: people feel not so much controlled. One of the reactions

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Speaker 10: is to look for an authoritarian figure, or maybe a savior.

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Speaker 10: A savior could be a robin Hood. You put your

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Speaker 10: hope in this robin hood.

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Speaker 7: It's human nature in times of crisis to look for help,

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Speaker 7: and a robin Hood figure feeds that need. But Valerius

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Speaker 7: told us it's never pure charity. Robin Hood always wants

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Speaker 7: something in return.

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Speaker 5: So even under automan occupation, when the thieves would come

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Speaker 5: down to rub from the Turks, they didn't keep it

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Speaker 5: from themselves.

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Speaker 9: They would give it to the other villagers. It's an

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Speaker 9: ancient logic, it's not a new one. By redistributing you

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Speaker 9: you create friends, you create allies, and you find hideouts immediately.

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Speaker 9: So it's also a practical thing.

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Speaker 2: Balerie's words were spinning through my mind as we Twurdic

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Speaker 2: start here. I just kept thinking, who's Balocost has given

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Speaker 2: money to? Was it a strategic way to find new

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Speaker 2: friends and new hideouts? And as I looked at the

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Speaker 2: people walking by, I wondered, who here is keeping his secrets.

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Speaker 7: We keep walking and past the intersection where Kirigoropolos was murdered.

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Speaker 7: There's a memorial there now, and directly across from it,

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Speaker 7: a swanky real estate development is under construction. And then

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Speaker 7: we see a music store. It's a plain and simple

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Speaker 7: looking place, no warning, no sign outside, but just a

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Speaker 7: large glass window that has been caked over with years

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Speaker 7: of grime. This shop makes and sells buzuki. That's the

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Speaker 7: type of Greek loot that you've definitely heard before in

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Speaker 7: the theme song for this show, for instance.

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Speaker 2: And there are buzukis everywhere on the walls, hanging from

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Speaker 2: the ceiling. The air is steeped in this beautiful smell

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Speaker 2: of fresh wood, and we begin chatting with a little

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Speaker 2: shop owner, an old timer who has been here for decades.

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Speaker 4: Do you think Palocrossus ever came to this neighborhood?

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Speaker 5: Od siple gun shoulders? He said, Well, he was an

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Speaker 5: alley cat that goes everywhere, so he must have been

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Speaker 5: here as well. But also there was a knowing pause

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Speaker 5: when I asked her, do you think mister bel Costas

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Speaker 5: came by excited here?

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Speaker 2: He said, do I think?

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Speaker 9: As though you were suggesting that you know?

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Speaker 7: And then, just as we're about to leave, the guy

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Speaker 7: starts telling us a story about a delivery he made

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Speaker 7: to an unusual customer.

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Speaker 5: Just said that he had a client many years ago

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Speaker 5: who was renting a house to someone for whom money

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Speaker 5: was no object and who would always pay rent on time.

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Speaker 9: So he delivered the buzuki to this house.

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Speaker 5: To this house in the outskirts of Athens, and apparently

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Speaker 5: it was Balo Costas.

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Speaker 7: To be clear, we have no way of fact checking this,

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Speaker 7: but what is true is that apparently you can walk

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Speaker 7: into a random buzuki shop in exat here and meet

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Speaker 7: someone with a first hand story about Basilis Palio Costas.

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Speaker 7: As we return to the streets, I can't help but

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Speaker 7: see traces of Vasilis everywhere, traces of his beliefs, his

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Speaker 7: antagonism toward police. It's literally written on the walls.

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Speaker 6: So we're just coming down through the cloud cover towards

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Speaker 6: the career. Wow, look at it, it's incredible.

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Speaker 8: Wow.

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Speaker 7: Chapter two and of Exiles. We're in a small twin

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Speaker 7: prop plane just thirty miles off the coast of Turkey.

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Speaker 7: Below us, the a GMC is rough and choppy. Our

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Speaker 7: plane banks right and out of the window we can

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Speaker 7: see our destination. And then over here on the left

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Speaker 7: is that there's a hole in a rock, and that's

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Speaker 7: supposedly where Akras fell to. Karia is named for Icarus,

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Speaker 7: who you might recall from the folk tale, died after

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Speaker 7: flying too close to the sun. It's a bit ironic too.

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Speaker 7: In the story of Icarus, he flew here because he

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Speaker 7: was trying to escape political persecutions, which, as you'll see,

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Speaker 7: is a theme in these parts.

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Speaker 11: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Ikaria.

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Speaker 4: Please keep your signal fast.

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Speaker 12: And up feel the single stop before leaving.

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Speaker 7: Like Zaria, Ikaria is an enclave for anarchists, communists, and

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Speaker 7: other political dissonance, but the similarities end there. Ikarias olive

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Speaker 7: trees and hot springs. It's self sufficient, it's distant, and

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Speaker 7: it resists authority by staying far away from that's because

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Speaker 7: for a long time the Islanders were outlaws themselves. After

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Speaker 7: the Ottomans claimed KaiA as part of their empire in

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Speaker 7: fifteen twenty one, the Islanders faked the destruction of their

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Speaker 7: towns and retreated to the mountains, building houses with no

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Speaker 7: chimneys to avoid the tailtale signs of smoke. For over

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Speaker 7: one hundred and fifty years, the Islanders adopted a tactic

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Speaker 7: of invisibility and almost everyone thought the island was empty.

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Speaker 7: It's retained that independent street ever since.

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Speaker 8: This is our.

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Speaker 5: Our deep now. Well, there's four of us, four suitcases

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Speaker 5: audio equipment, trying to squeeze into Nissan Nika, which is

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Speaker 5: a very very small car.

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Speaker 2: Almost immediately we get a tip from some locals that

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Speaker 2: there might be a name the celebration, a party at

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Speaker 2: a restaurant nearby. So we drove down this desolate road

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Speaker 2: and actually missed it a couple of times, but we

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Speaker 2: finally spot the taverna stop outside and decide to head

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Speaker 2: in to speak to some people.

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Speaker 7: In the taverna. We meet an American expat who's more

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Speaker 7: than happy to tell us about the charms of island life.

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Speaker 9: But here is like.

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Speaker 12: The clocks don't work. There is no time for anything,

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Speaker 12: and it goes on and on and on and on.

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Speaker 12: Back in the day, all these old people that they

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Speaker 12: lived to be one hundred and plush, you know, they

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Speaker 12: slipped all pretty much whenever they felt like it, and

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Speaker 12: they had no stress. They they had no bills.

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Speaker 7: A few years ago, the New York Times magazine called

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Speaker 7: Ikaria the island where people forget to die. And it's true.

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Speaker 7: The island is a so called blue zone, one of

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Speaker 7: five places in the world where people just seem to

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Speaker 7: live forever. Studies suggest that the reasons for this longevity

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Speaker 7: are simple. People eat from their own gardens, they socialize

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Speaker 7: a lot, They rest when they need it, They don't

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Speaker 7: work too hard, They live simply.

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Speaker 12: Most of these people here, they are I would say socialist.

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Speaker 12: I would say ninety percent of us of them are socialist.

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Speaker 12: It's how it's been for many, many years, and I

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Speaker 12: don't see it changed.

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Speaker 5: In any time soon.

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Speaker 12: And if I know somebody has a lot of money,

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Speaker 12: he's not a good person.

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Speaker 7: Hikaria is one of the most left wing parts of Greece.

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Speaker 7: In the nineteen forties, during the Greek Civil War, the

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Speaker 7: government arrested leftists and deported them to the islands. It

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Speaker 7: was a policy they called administrative banishment. About thirteen thousand

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Speaker 7: people connected to the Communist Party were exiled to take

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Speaker 7: the carrier. And when these communists arrived, they stumbled upon

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Speaker 7: an old world society that was essentially already living their values.

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Speaker 7: But there is a dark side here. It's isolation and

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Speaker 7: anti state politics didn't just appeal to exiles and misfits,

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Speaker 7: it also gained a reputation as a place for bad

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Speaker 7: guys to hie. After the Pravadna, we hit the road again,

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Speaker 7: and I'm thinking about something A source told us about

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Speaker 7: Vasili's pale cost us that the only way he has

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Speaker 7: stayed hidden for so long is if the whole community

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Speaker 7: is willing to keep his existence a secret.

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Speaker 5: That smells our cladge to be.

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Speaker 9: We're also definitely lost.

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Speaker 8: No we're not, believe we're not.

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Speaker 13: Wait wait, wait, we are.

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Speaker 9: We are loves the wrong way.

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Speaker 7: We eventually find our bearings and stop at a few places.

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Speaker 7: We learned that in town has its own cooperative community,

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Speaker 7: and that there are self organizing neighborhoods everywhere. Some places

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Speaker 7: pay using an honor or a barter system.

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Speaker 8: So everyone who who we've asked do you think vasilis

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Speaker 8: is here? Do you think he could be here, or

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Speaker 8: do you think he was here? Has been pretty doubtful.

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Speaker 8: But at the same time, and I mentioned this earlier today,

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Speaker 8: no one has laughed us out, no one has said

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Speaker 8: you're silly, But there's almost.

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Speaker 3: A a sort of sense of pride.

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Speaker 14: They think, well, he could come here in a way.

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Speaker 7: The next day, when we sat down with the journalist

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Speaker 7: Jord Goswutzadas. We asked him if there was any chance

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Speaker 7: that you Carria could still be a place for someone

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Speaker 7: who might want to self excellent.

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Speaker 15: My grand grand grandfather he cames from visage because it

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Speaker 15: was against the system, and he came here to hire himself. Okay,

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Speaker 15: it was very difficult to find him. Today, it's not

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Speaker 15: They can find you very easy, very so you can

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Speaker 15: hire here.

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Speaker 7: People we spoke to agree that this isn't a good

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Speaker 7: place to hide these days. And perhaps it's because, like

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Speaker 7: exaia I, Carrier is changing. If Vacilis is in Greece,

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Speaker 7: it's not just a place that embraces his ideology or

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Speaker 7: a place with a strong sense of community, but a

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Speaker 7: place that has also resisted change. So our next stop

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Speaker 7: is one of those places, a place where time has

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Speaker 7: stopped and where outlaws are rumored to walk free. Chapter three,

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Speaker 7: The Holy Mountain.

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Speaker 14: So we're just arriving here at the small port of Vafni,

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Speaker 14: which is the main port of Mount Athos, and we're

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Speaker 14: mixed in with monks, man even a small child, but

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Speaker 14: only man here, as this peninsula is only open to

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Speaker 14: the male sex.

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Speaker 7: It's damp and windy, but we're excited because our last

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Speaker 7: stop is one of the holiest and most secluded places

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Speaker 7: in the world. We're here to visit Mount Athos, a

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Speaker 7: peninsula in northeastern Greece. According to legend, the Virgin Mary

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Speaker 7: came here and was so armed by the region's beauty,

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Speaker 7: by its towering cliffs and lush forests, that God granted

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Speaker 7: it as her dominion. Orthodox monks established a monastery and

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Speaker 7: decided that no other woman would ever step foot here again.

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Speaker 7: Athos has been a men's only retreat ever since. About

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Speaker 7: two thousand monks live here in twenty small monasteries. They

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Speaker 7: spend six hours each day in church, spending their free

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Speaker 7: time beeking, in, gardening, and praying. Unlike Exadhya and Nikaria,

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Speaker 7: this is not an anarchist stronghold. The Eastern Orthodox Church

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Speaker 7: is an establishment to be reckoned with in Greece, but

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Speaker 7: this patch of land is politically unique. For more than

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Speaker 7: a thousand years it has been functionally independent. Allegedly, that

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Speaker 7: independence has called criminals here, some to repent, others to hide.

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Speaker 2: We heard that a group of robbers came here once

402
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Speaker 2: and tried to steal from two elderly hermits who lived

403
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Speaker 2: in the mountain that after they broke into the house,

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Speaker 2: the crooks were immediately paralyzed by the Holy Spirit, so

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Speaker 2: they repented, and as soon as they regained control of

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Speaker 2: their bodies, they decided to stay and become hermits themselves.

407
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Speaker 2: More recently, one of Vasilis Peleocostas's prison bodies, a cop

408
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Speaker 2: killer known as the Beast of the Balkans, claimed that

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Speaker 2: when he gets out of jail, he'll join the monks

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Speaker 2: on Athos too, but not everybody sees the light. In

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Speaker 2: twenty fourteen, a Greek civil servant convicted of embezzling nine

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Speaker 2: million euros from taxpayers fled to Athos and disguised himself

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Speaker 2: as a mind. Since then, the tabloid press has turned

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Speaker 2: these kinds of stories into their own genre, painting Athos

415
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Speaker 2: as a place where criminals and shady oligarchs come to hide.

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Speaker 2: It takes time to get permission to visit Athos. You

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00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 2: need a special entry permit and the blessing from the

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Speaker 2: monks themselves. Luckily, we had contacts at two monasteries, and

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Speaker 2: the monks made sure our paperwork was organized.

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Speaker 9: So you've just come round the corner.

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Speaker 7: We bought a bus that takes us up a winding

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Speaker 7: road up to the monastery.

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Speaker 3: It's a tower hanging over the sea with a huge

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Speaker 3: mountain amount Athos, draped in snow, looming behind it.

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Speaker 7: The bus stops and we get out at the monastery

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Speaker 7: of Simonopetra. It's a hulking building carved into the side

427
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Speaker 7: of a cliff. It reminds me of something out of

428
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Speaker 7: Grim's fairy tales. The monks here were black cassocks and long,

429
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Speaker 7: wispy beards. Many have simple crucifixes dangling from their necks.

430
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Speaker 7: We get a tour and from a point high above

431
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Speaker 7: the sea, they ring the church bells for us. So

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Speaker 7: the first night we tried to speak to some people,

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Speaker 7: but none of the monks wanted to talk to us.

434
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Speaker 7: It was cold. We got up early for church. I mean,

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Speaker 7: Athos is, for all intents and purposes, a big trick.

436
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 7: It's a complex of monasteries that attracts pilgrims. So if

437
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,360
Speaker 7: you're going to Athos, you're going to church. I think

438
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,719
Speaker 7: we arrived at midday and started our day off with church.

439
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 7: Then we took a bit of a break, went on

440
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 7: a beautiful walk into the vineyards and the farms and

441
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 7: the fields below the monastery, and then ran back up

442
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 7: as soon as the bells started ringing to go right

443
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 7: back to church. And after church we went to a

444
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 7: dinner where more psalms were kind of red as we

445
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 7: ate and felt like church. And from there we were

446
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 7: hurried to our room, which was actually really beautiful, but

447
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 7: we were instructed to sleep quickly in order to be

448
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 7: able to wake up at three am. For you guessed it,

449
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 7: more church. It was on last day, and we were

450
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 7: incredibly disappointed. We'd spent two days asking people whether they

451
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 7: wanted to speak to us, and nobody would speak to us.

452
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 7: Then the most amazing thing happened. I found out that

453
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 7: a hermit that I'd met a couple of years ago

454
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 7: had ridden a muse all downside of the mountain and

455
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 7: he was willing to help me out. They asked us

456
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 7: not to include their names or the exact monastery they're

457
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 7: affiliated with.

458
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 4: If somebody was running from the law, would they come here,

459
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 4: do you think or not?

460
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 9: There's many stories, there's many instances, and there's a tradition

461
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 9: of thieves repenting in the Greek Orthodox Church. However, there's

462
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 9: as many examples of thieves coming amound Athos hiding, but

463
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 9: then being introduced to the way of Jesus, repenting and

464
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 9: ultimately becoming monks. Because everyone here has come with sin.

465
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 9: Everyone here has come with something that they need or

466
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 9: they can repent. This place is welcoming to anyone if

467
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 9: they are willing to kind of change their lives.

468
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 7: This monk sees things from more cosmic perspective, doesn't differentiate

469
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 7: between palucosas or myself. The legal definition of criminal has

470
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 7: very little meaning here because everybody is a sinner, everyone

471
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 7: has something to repent. But it is Athos's unique political

472
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 7: status that makes it so attractive for people avoiding the law.

473
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 9: If you feel comfortable to explain what Athos is, at

474
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 9: least in English, I think that would be very helpful

475
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 9: so that we don't lose any information or tone in

476
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 9: the translation because you're speak English very well.

477
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 11: Mount Athos is in territory into the land of Greece, independence,

478
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 11: independent of the law of Greece. We have constitution, we

479
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 11: have a government. But here we have is something more important.

480
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 11: We have the ghostpel of Jesus Christ.

481
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 7: Athos was declared autonomous thousands of years ago during Byzantine times.

482
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 7: As far as monks are concerned Byzantium is still alive.

483
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 7: They casually name drop ancient mp for it's like everybody

484
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,959
Speaker 7: knows who they are. Athos certainly resists change from the outside.

485
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 7: But is it a place for somebody like Vasilissas?

486
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 4: I just wanted to ask you whether people come to

487
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 4: hide on Mount Athos?

488
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 9: Is a place to hide?

489
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 4: If somebody was running from the law, would they come here,

490
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 4: do you think or not?

491
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 11: I think that this is a place here that can

492
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 11: only give the chance to these people to confess their

493
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 11: sins and to find the right way to go to God,

494
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 11: if they are criminal or not.

495
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 4: So if somebody were to come here as a criminal,

496
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 4: they'd be encouraged to confess their sense.

497
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 11: Yes, of course all of us were criminal, of course.

498
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 9: But in a spiritual sense, of course?

499
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 11: Who knows?

500
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 7: Chapter four, School in the Shadows. We spent a lot

501
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 7: of time planning our trip and setting up interviews, but

502
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,479
Speaker 7: it turned out the thing that stuck with me the

503
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 7: most happened by accident. On our way to Athos. We

504
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 7: had an overnight layover in the northern city of Thessaloniki.

505
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 7: It's a beautiful town of white buildings and universities, small

506
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,719
Speaker 7: enough to feel personal and large enough to have everything

507
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 7: a modern urban night might want. Costas and I were

508
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 7: walking around where we found a beautiful nineteenth century building

509
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 7: with an anarchist flag flying above it. There was a

510
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 7: guy brewing beer in the garden, and he seemed happy

511
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 7: to chat.

512
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 9: So, what's your name?

513
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 13: My name is Zaraka. Zaraka means the vaga pond. It's

514
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 13: a spirit or name because I'm working on a path

515
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 13: of meditation and yoga.

516
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 7: Saraka is forty seven years old. At least his body is.

517
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 7: He said, in his heart he's twelve, and in his

518
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 7: spirit maybe three hundred and fifty. He invites us inside

519
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 7: for a tour and explains that the building is an

520
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 7: abandoned school. When the state gave up on it, a

521
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 7: group of anarchists turned it into a community education center.

522
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 7: All the services here are free.

523
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 13: We're having Greek lessons for the references.

524
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: We walk upstairs and we find a young woman giving

525
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 2: Greek language classes to a refugee from North Africa. Refugees

526
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 2: in Greece today are people who really have to live

527
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 2: outside of the law. There are people who have to

528
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 2: hire and who have to come to places like this

529
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 2: because assistance to integrate them into European society are almost

530
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 2: entirely broken.

531
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 14: So this school is basically here because of the failure

532
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 14: of the state to provide.

533
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 13: Because the state doesn't want the people, it doesn't want

534
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 13: the humans. It's humanoids, humanoids, humanoid created by the priests,

535
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 13: the politicians. So after all this repression, some people escape.

536
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 13: So these people came together and connect their knowledge, their love,

537
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 13: and slowly, slowly we created this kind of place.

538
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 7: Saraka used that term humanoids a lot. He told us

539
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 7: that society has brainwashed the masses into giving up their freedoms,

540
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 7: and this place is for the select view who resist

541
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 7: in a way. That's really what we've been exploring. This

542
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,240
Speaker 7: thing we've seen all over Greece, the desire to escape

543
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 7: the idea of a state. Not just political excilece, but

544
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 7: people who choose to live out of bounds in a

545
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 7: way that's self sustaining and solidarity with others. And of

546
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 7: course Vasilis Paliucostas, who's both a thief and a symbol

547
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 7: of this phenomenon. So I asked Saraka, why do you

548
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 7: think this is so prevalent in Greek society.

549
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 13: Our heart is still burning. They didn't make it like

550
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 13: a stone like in every other country.

551
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 7: I found that on so just uestly beautiful. The idea

552
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 7: that in this country there's something special. Greece's heart is

553
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 7: still bunning.

554
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: We sent Nick and Costas to these far flung places

555
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: because we wanted to understand why Greece is such an

556
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 1: incubator for people like Vasilis Palio Costas, and after hearing

557
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 1: about Nick and Costas's adventures, I keep coming back to

558
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: this idea of the social bandit, the idea that a

559
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: criminal can both break the laws of the state but

560
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:45,959
Speaker 1: still live by a higher law.

561
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 2: I think that's the appeal of Vasilis. He's not just

562
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 2: an outlaw.

563
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: He's an outlaw with a point, a point that resonates

564
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: because he knows you can't break a career up system

565
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: by playing by its rules. And that's why wherever Vasilis

566
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 1: is hiding, he's doing it with the help of friends, friends,

567
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 1: in places where people are cheering for him, protecting him,

568
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: praying for him. If we're going to track him down,

569
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:22,919
Speaker 1: we need to find more of those people. Next time,

570
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: on the Good Thief, George and Christina are back and

571
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: they stumble into a lead.

572
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 2: They never expected.

573
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: That's the Good Thief is a Kaleidoscope production in partnership.

574
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 2: With iHeart Podcasts. I'm Miles Ray.

575
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Mangesh Hatikadur Costas, Linos, Oz Wallashan

576
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: and Kate Osborne. From iHeart, executive producers are Katrina Norvel

577
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: and Nikki Itto. This episode was produced, reported, and hosted

578
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: by Nick Miarcos. Our sound engineers in Greece were Alexis

579
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 1: Kucias Pantalis and Dimitris Repus. Our partners at the Greek

580
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: Podcast Project. Our executive producer Daphney Carniss, Field producers Christina

581
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: Pilioni and George Miadis, and sound designer Nico Sclavnitis. Mary

582
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,280
Speaker 1: Phillips Sandy is our supervising producer. Shane McKeon is our producer.

583
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: The show is written and researched by Lucas riland fact

584
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: checking by Donia Suleman. Initial edit, mix and sound design

585
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: for this episode was by Kieran Matthew Bannerci at Palm

586
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: Tree Island. Sound designed and final mix by Pran Banning.

587
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Imam Baldi with additional music

588
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 1: by Boden. Finally, thanks to will Pearson, Connell Byrne, Bob Pittman,

589
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: and John Marinapolis,