Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here
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Speaker 3: Good morning everybody, it is a Monday. We have a
Speaker 3: great show for everyone today.
Speaker 1: What do we have course, indeed we do, of course,
Speaker 1: we have you covered again from all angles of what
Speaker 1: is unfolding in Israel and in Gaza. There are some
Speaker 1: huge developments this morning, so we'll take you on the
Speaker 1: ground in Gaza. Will also talk to you about the
Speaker 1: US response which continues to take shape. Potential visit by
Speaker 1: President Biden in the works too Israel. So we've got
Speaker 1: all of that for you. The geopolitics, could this spark
Speaker 1: a broader war, something we are all, of course fearful of.
Speaker 1: We're also excited to be able to bring you some
Speaker 1: results from our own focus group.
Speaker 4: We did ask participants.
Speaker 1: These were Democratic base voters outside in and around Atlanta
Speaker 1: about this conflict and how they are viewing it, what
Speaker 1: type of news they're consuming, how they view Hamas, how
Speaker 1: they view Gaza, how they view the Palestinians, how they
Speaker 1: view Israel, what they think we should be.
Speaker 4: Doing in response.
Speaker 1: Really interesting stuff, and of course it's always invaluable to
Speaker 1: hear from the American people themselves about how they are processing.
Speaker 4: All of this.
Speaker 1: We also wanted to zoom out and take a look
Speaker 1: at some of the overwhelming state backed censorship that is
Speaker 1: occurring on this issue. We'll give you some really striking
Speaker 1: examples this as protests have been sparked literally around the globe.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a look at how Israelis are
Speaker 1: processing this and how they feel about their government. We've
Speaker 1: got some new polling there as well, and we've also
Speaker 1: got some news for you with regard to how our
Speaker 1: own media is handling this conflict and who they are
Speaker 1: allowing on air, and who they are allowing to voice
Speaker 1: their view and who they are not. So a lot
Speaker 1: to get into this morning, but let's go ahead and
Speaker 1: start with what we've got on the ground in Gaza
Speaker 1: this morning. Let's go ahead and put some of these
Speaker 1: images up on the screen. Of course, the Israeli bombardment
Speaker 1: of Gaza, in particular Northern Gaza continues. These are images
Speaker 1: of the rubble at this point in Gaza City. Of course,
Speaker 1: they have issued evacuation orders for the more than one
Speaker 1: million residents of Northern Gaza, pushing them south as that
Speaker 1: complete siege. Conditions continue, no food, no water, no electricity.
Speaker 1: And one of the big concerns this morning is you
Speaker 1: see this baby who is on an incubator, and this
Speaker 1: director of the main hospital in Gaza is that that
Speaker 1: main hospital is actually in the evacuation zone. It is
Speaker 1: already overwhelmed based on the number of wounded who have
Speaker 1: been struck and severely injured in these strikes from Israel.
Speaker 1: And what you could see there is footage of people
Speaker 1: who are laid out on the floor because there are
Speaker 1: already not sufficient beds. The leadership of that hospital saying
Speaker 1: there is no way we can evacuate, there is no
Speaker 1: way we can move all of these severely wounded individuals.
Speaker 1: You can see people being brought into the hospitals here,
Speaker 1: so you know thousands of people who depend on that hospital.
Speaker 1: You can already see the mass grave there that is
Speaker 1: being dug and filled in based on again, this is
Speaker 1: in Gaza, the people who have been killed by Israeli strikes.
Speaker 1: And this is before we even consider any sort of
Speaker 1: ground invasion, which hasn't occurred. We're now looking at images
Speaker 1: out of Israel. This is courtesy of sixty Minutes. This
Speaker 1: is the fallout from the horrific carnage that was inflicted
Speaker 1: on many Israeli civilians. You can see here footage from
Speaker 1: that music festival, bodies laid down. I know these images
Speaker 1: are incredibly disturbed, and we're going to get to go
Speaker 1: this later. These are some of the protests that have
Speaker 1: been sparked around the world. In addition, Sager, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the things I was looking at this morning
Speaker 1: is there's been this conversation about allowing aid convoys in
Speaker 1: opening up the Egyptian border so there could be some
Speaker 1: sort of a humanitarian cord or established those negotiations.
Speaker 4: Both sides different.
Speaker 1: Stories about what's going on there, but the bottom line
Speaker 1: is there is no humanitarian cord or that border has
Speaker 1: not been opened, and diplomatic officials are saying the reason
Speaker 1: that Egypt hasn't allowed those aid convoys in that they
Speaker 1: have masked at the border is because number one Israel
Speaker 1: already struck that border crossing, and number two Israel will
Speaker 1: not promise to not strike those AID convoys coming in
Speaker 1: as well. So the situation is incredibly dire on a
Speaker 1: humanitarian front. And as I said, this is before we
Speaker 1: even get into any sort of ground invasion, which is
Speaker 1: what Israel's right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2: The Israeli say that they're not allowing for proper security
Speaker 2: screening of set AID convoys. And this is of course,
Speaker 2: has now become the focal point of US policy of
Speaker 2: really global energy as the entire world focuses on what's
Speaker 2: happening in Gaza, and the National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan
Speaker 2: actually announced yesterday that water would be turned on back
Speaker 2: in southern Gaza outside of the evacuation zone.
Speaker 3: Here's what he had to say.
Speaker 5: Take a listen to what Secretary Blincoln said last year
Speaker 5: when Putin was targeting Ukrainian infrastructure.
Speaker 6: Heat, water, electricity, for children, for the elderly, for the sick.
Speaker 7: These are President Putin's new targets. He's hitting them hard.
Speaker 6: This brutalization of Ukraine's people is barbaric.
Speaker 5: Now, look, Israel is not Russia. Gaza is not Ukraine.
Speaker 5: It's a different situation. But cutting off supplies, cutting off heat,
Speaker 5: cutting off water to civilians, what's the difference.
Speaker 8: Well, first, thank you for saying that Israel is not Russia,
Speaker 8: because Israel is not Russia's second.
Speaker 5: Civilians are civilians.
Speaker 4: Civilians are civilian.
Speaker 8: Yes, absolutely they are, and they deserve, as I said before,
Speaker 8: access to water and medicine and food, and we are
Speaker 8: working actively to ensure that that happens. And I can
Speaker 8: tell you this morning, Jake, that I have been in
Speaker 8: touch with my Israeli counterparts just within the last hour
Speaker 8: who report to me that they have in fact turned
Speaker 8: the water pipe back on in southern Gaza. That has
Speaker 8: been the subject of discussion over the course of the
Speaker 8: past few days. The United States is going to continue
Speaker 8: working with Israel, with the UN, with Egypt, with Jordan,
Speaker 8: and with a lot of the groups on the ground
Speaker 8: to make sure that innocent Palestinians get access to those
Speaker 8: basic necessities and are protected from bombardment because they deserve
Speaker 8: that right, the right to those necessities and the right
Speaker 8: to safety and security every bit as much as Ukrainian
Speaker 8: civilians do, or civilians anywhere do in the United States
Speaker 8: hasn't made any bones about that. We're working hard on that.
Speaker 8: We're working to make sure that that is the case
Speaker 8: as this unfolds, and it's something that has been a
Speaker 8: high priority for President Biden, for Secretary Blincoln, and for myself.
Speaker 2: That's a pretty big deal though for Jake Sullivan to
Speaker 2: be the one announcing it and yeah, almost offhanded, to
Speaker 2: be honest, not though from Israeli officials or and hasn't
Speaker 2: yet really been confirmed all that much by Gaza officials.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, they're paying all this lip service.
Speaker 1: And Biden put out a tweet like, oh, we've got
Speaker 1: to make sure innocent lives are protected, and you know,
Speaker 1: I expect Israel will follow international law with regards to
Speaker 1: they're already not. I mean, that's the thing that drives
Speaker 1: me crazy, is they're pretending like they haven't already clearly
Speaker 1: violated international law and committed wark rhymes here when it's
Speaker 1: unfolding in front of our eyes. Good for Jake Taffer
Speaker 1: for asking this question. This is something you and I
Speaker 1: have in track, and we may talk more about this yesterday,
Speaker 1: because you have all of this video of Anthony Blincoln
Speaker 1: and the head of the EU and all of these peoples.
Speaker 1: Lensky talking about what a war crime it is for
Speaker 1: Russia to be turning off electricity and messing with civilian
Speaker 1: infrastructure during a time of war.
Speaker 4: Suddenly when it's.
Speaker 1: Israel, it's like, well, it's different for reasons, but specifically
Speaker 1: with regard to this idea that oh they turned back
Speaker 1: on the water pipe, that's not really how things work.
Speaker 1: And also if you don't have electricity, then you can't
Speaker 1: pump that water and it's not actually doing anyone any good.
Speaker 1: So a reporter on Al jazeero Ho explained some of
Speaker 1: the logistics and mechanics of this.
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to that.
Speaker 9: Also, the black out of electricity inside Gaza is the
Speaker 9: main factor that even providing water to the Gaza Strip
Speaker 9: won't be enough, simply because without electricity, Gazans won't be
Speaker 9: able to fill the water tanks. So with the black
Speaker 9: with the ongoing black out of electricity inside Gaza, the
Speaker 9: humanitarian crisis inside the Gaza Strip will continue and will deteriorate.
Speaker 1: More So, in the best of times, the infrastructure in
Speaker 1: Gaza is incredibly compromised, and in the best of times,
Speaker 1: under the current you know, a typical Israeli blockade. You
Speaker 1: have the majority of the citizens without access to clean water.
Speaker 1: So now when you have no electricity, you have no
Speaker 1: ability to pump that water. The one power plant that
Speaker 1: does exist in Gaza has already run on a fuel,
Speaker 1: hospitals having to rely on a generator. I mean, it
Speaker 1: is an incredibly dire situation. Again, you're talking about two
Speaker 1: point two million people. You're talking about a densely packed enclave.
Speaker 1: You're talking about nearly a majority of those individuals are children.
Speaker 1: Hundreds of children have been killed already in these assaults. Again,
Speaker 1: this is before the huge exodus, this is before the
Speaker 1: ground invasion potentially begins. So there is a lot to
Speaker 1: be concerned about here with regard to Americans, because remember
Speaker 1: there were a number of Americans who were killed by
Speaker 1: Hamas in those assaults, and we think some of Americans
Speaker 1: who have been potentially taken hostage and a number who
Speaker 1: continued to be unaccounted for. Interesting development here, I mean
Speaker 1: horrible development here. Put this up on the screen. So
Speaker 1: as of yesterday, well, these are the overall casualty numbers.
Speaker 1: We've got thirteen hundred who were killed in Israel, over
Speaker 1: three thousand who are wounded in Gaza. Now we have
Speaker 1: over twenty three hundred who have been killed and nearly
Speaker 1: ten thousand who have been wounded. With regard to the US,
Speaker 1: put this next piece up on the screen. They're now
Speaker 1: saying that thirty Americans have been killed. Yesterday the count
Speaker 1: was twenty nine. Now it's risen to thirty. But this
Speaker 1: is interesting, Sager. They'll no longer comment any further on
Speaker 1: the circumstances of the US citizen deaths. Jeff Stein taking
Speaker 1: portrial note of this. And the reason why this is
Speaker 1: significant is because remember, if you have Americans who are
Speaker 1: held hostage in Gaza right now, it could be the
Speaker 1: case that they are dying not at the hands directly
Speaker 1: of Hama, although Hamas obviously bears quite a lot of
Speaker 1: responsibilities since they're the ones who freaking took them hostage.
Speaker 1: But when you have Israel mounting this overwhelming bombing campaign,
Speaker 1: dropping more bombs in Gaza then we dropped in Afghanistan
Speaker 1: over a number of years, some of those Americans could
Speaker 1: be getting killed right now by Israeli fire. And this
Speaker 1: is we're going to talk about the Israel domestic political context.
Speaker 1: There you have the latest number I saw is potentially
Speaker 1: two hundred hostages that were taken by Hamas. The families
Speaker 1: and a lot of supporters of the families very concerned
Speaker 1: about their lives and protecting them and seeing if they
Speaker 1: can be brought back, if there can be some sort
Speaker 1: of negotiations to bring them home. So that's why it's
Speaker 1: so noteworthy that the US government will no longer discuss
Speaker 1: the circumstances surrounding these American deaths.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, And also it comes in the face
Speaker 2: of we also need to know how many American citizens
Speaker 2: are inside Gaza. The current number is somewhere around five
Speaker 2: or six hundred US citizens. Breaking Actually this morning, Crystal
Speaker 2: is that the Rafa crossing in Egypt might be opening
Speaker 2: for a few hours at nine am time local for
Speaker 2: foreign national specifically to cross. It could come this is
Speaker 2: just from a White House spokes.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, we'll see, because they said that before and
Speaker 1: it didn't happen.
Speaker 2: It didn't happen exactly, and it's because there was also
Speaker 2: an insistence from Egypt side. They said, we'll only open
Speaker 2: the crossing for foreign nationals to come across as long
Speaker 2: as AID convoys are allowed to cross in so could
Speaker 2: indicate this is just from a White House spokesperson minutes ago.
Speaker 3: They say they.
Speaker 2: Hope in order to open it up, we'll see, we'll
Speaker 2: see everybody, you know, remain on standby. Overall, the situation
Speaker 2: remains dire, largely because so many people are unable to
Speaker 2: flee from the northern evacuation zone approximately a million people.
Speaker 2: In the past, what we often observed in Syria whenever
Speaker 2: people were able to leave cities like Aleppo or others,
Speaker 2: it's really retirees. I mean, if you think back to
Speaker 2: Hurricane Katrina or any of the other times in which
Speaker 2: we have a major design here in which a lot
Speaker 2: of people flee. Most of the time, the people who
Speaker 2: remain are unfortunately the old, the sick, the infirm, who
Speaker 2: are unable to do so. And then sometimes you know,
Speaker 2: also we've got people in the hospital system, as you said,
Speaker 2: which are overwhelmed international organizations inside the hospital saying that
Speaker 2: they're unable to go because they not only have patients,
Speaker 2: but they don't have the existing infrastructure in the south.
Speaker 2: And that's all before we see what this coming invasion
Speaker 2: is going to look like into Gaza. The current indication
Speaker 2: that we've seen from Israeli military plans that have been released,
Speaker 2: is that they will have basically a full blown urban
Speaker 2: war against Hamas leadership, militants, and infrastructure. Hamas is extensive
Speaker 2: tunnel network all throughout Gaza and specifically northern Gaza. That's
Speaker 2: how they believe that many of the weapons and the
Speaker 2: people were able to cross in the first place. Although
Speaker 2: you know they're vaunted border security fence also literally just
Speaker 2: moved open with a piece of construction equipment. That seems
Speaker 2: to be an issue anyway, That appears to be what
Speaker 2: it is for now. The officials off the record are
Speaker 2: saying that occupation is quote not on the table, that
Speaker 2: that's not what they want to do, but we don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, you could technically say that we won't occupy something,
Speaker 2: but you could stay for six months to a year
Speaker 2: while you have clearing operations at the very least. I mean,
Speaker 2: they are expecting significant amounts of Israeli casualties because this
Speaker 2: is probably going to be a bloody urban conflict the
Speaker 2: likes of which the world has not seen in a
Speaker 2: long time. I mean, the Battle of Mosel is probably
Speaker 2: the most analogous from twenty seventeen, I believe, between the
Speaker 2: Iraqi security forces and Ice and that was an absolutely
Speaker 2: savage conflict, like not even blocked by block, but you know,
Speaker 2: city house by house fighting that occurred, and it was
Speaker 2: horrible for the civilian population also that was there, and
Speaker 2: the city really never recovered either.
Speaker 1: There are more and more nine to eleven parallels here,
Speaker 1: both in the horror of the initial attack, the shock
Speaker 1: of the public, the way it changed their whole conception
Speaker 1: of safety, dean security, and what it would take to
Speaker 1: you know, feel like they and their families are going
Speaker 1: to be safe. But also you know, the way we
Speaker 1: went into a rock, which obviously was based on a
Speaker 1: pack of lies, but there was also no plan for
Speaker 1: the aftermath. And I'm looking at you know what Israel
Speaker 1: is planning here. You know, it's easy for them, with
Speaker 1: all of their you know, equipment and modern weaponry supplied
Speaker 1: in part by US, to come in and bomb the
Speaker 1: hell out of Gaza City like they're already doing that.
Speaker 1: That's easy, right, the ground invasion. I mean, I'm sure
Speaker 1: Hamas will put up whatever fight they can, but that also,
Speaker 1: in a sense is easy for them. But it's easy
Speaker 1: to say, We're going to take out all of Hamas's
Speaker 1: political and military leadership. But what then what then, is
Speaker 1: it just you know, more Hamas come in to fill
Speaker 1: the void. Is there a separate government that's going to
Speaker 1: come into Are you going to do nation building in Gaza?
Speaker 1: Are you going to occupy Gaza and run it yourself.
Speaker 1: I haven't heard any answer to those questions. And those
Speaker 1: are very big questions. So it's a lot more complex
Speaker 1: than just coming in and bombing the hell out of
Speaker 1: the people who live here. You have to have some
Speaker 1: plan for what are you going to do next? Who
Speaker 1: is going to govern? How are you going to relate
Speaker 1: to those people who are governing? And clearly you've seen,
Speaker 1: even if you don't give a shit about the Palestinian people,
Speaker 1: if you care about your own people, you've seen the
Speaker 1: way that all of your modern gadgets, tech, etc. Can
Speaker 1: be thwarted by you know, a few hundred dollars drones
Speaker 1: and a bulldozer.
Speaker 4: So what then?
Speaker 1: And you know you're also seeing a level of dehumanization
Speaker 1: which is really abhorrent. That Israeli President Herzog he made
Speaker 1: some comments about how debunking quote unquote the idea that
Speaker 1: there are innocent civilians because his thinking is that, well,
Speaker 1: some of these Palestinians support Hama, so you know, they
Speaker 1: are basically complicit here. This is the same logic that
Speaker 1: Osama bin Laden used to justify nine to eleven. While
Speaker 1: the Americans elect these governments that do these awful things.
Speaker 1: This is the same type of logic that Hamas would
Speaker 1: use with regards to Israeli, says Page and does use exactly, Hey,
Speaker 1: they elected these governments. And you know what, when you're
Speaker 1: talking about America and Israel, places that are basically democracies,
Speaker 1: there's actually more of a connection between the citizenry and
Speaker 1: the government than you know, when was the last time
Speaker 1: there was election in Gaza was seventeen years ago. I
Speaker 1: believe innocent civilians are innocent civilians. And you're seeing some
Speaker 1: of this, you know, horrible hate crime that appears to
Speaker 1: have unfolded in Chicago where a six year old Palestinian
Speaker 1: American child was stabbed to death by a landlord that
Speaker 1: they're investigating as a hate crime, potentially because of his
Speaker 1: Palestinian and Muslim roots. So it is horrifically ugly what
Speaker 1: is unfolding right now, and there are many more questions
Speaker 1: than answers about where we go from here. The last
Speaker 1: piece of this with regard to Israel, go ahead and
Speaker 1: put this up on the screen. Human Rights Watch has
Speaker 1: confirmed that white phosphorus was used in Gaza and Lebanon.
Speaker 1: They say that it puts civilians at risk of serious
Speaker 1: and long term injuries. They verified videos that were taken
Speaker 1: in Lebanon and Gaza on October tenth and eleventh. This
Speaker 1: was something that was a subject of a lot of
Speaker 1: speculation online because there were videos that appear to show
Speaker 1: the use of white phosphorus. It can cause severe burns
Speaker 1: in people. It can set structures, fiels, and other civilian
Speaker 1: objects in the vicinity on fire. The use of white
Speaker 1: phosphorus and Gaza one of the most densely populated areas
Speaker 1: in the world, they say magnifies the risk to civilians
Speaker 1: and violates international humanitarian law prohibition on putting civilians at
Speaker 1: unnecessary risk. Israel, though adamantly denies the use, but the
Speaker 1: video evidence seems pretty clear.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: White phosphorus munitions are specifically banned by international law, in
Speaker 2: specifically in populated areas by civilian populations. And you can
Speaker 2: go and you can read about past US use of
Speaker 2: white foster munitions in Vietnam, where it really became famous
Speaker 2: but really we saw deployment of it by I believe
Speaker 2: it was Syrian and Russians, you know, inside of the
Speaker 2: battle for Aleppo and all throughout Syria.
Speaker 3: It was horrible.
Speaker 2: What it inflicts really on the civilian population, which is
Speaker 2: what we're keeping an eye on. So, look, it's all
Speaker 2: pretty nightmarish where we are right now. We've already got
Speaker 2: several thousand killed already on both sides and the invasion
Speaker 2: is not even begun. So with the invasion, you can
Speaker 2: really only expect things to go exponential, especially if we
Speaker 2: see an urban campaign combined with a air superiority that
Speaker 2: the Israelis have and our ability their ability, and then
Speaker 2: not even mentioning here the nightmare of a two front war,
Speaker 2: which we will get to.
Speaker 4: Yeah, a little bit.
Speaker 1: We're going to get to that. Let's focus in a
Speaker 1: little bit on the US response present. Biden was on
Speaker 1: sixty Minutes and was asked about the possibility of setting
Speaker 1: up a humanitarian corridor to assist those in Gazalis.
Speaker 7: Take listen, are you asking Israel to establish a humanitarian
Speaker 7: corridor in that area or get humanitarian supplies?
Speaker 6: Yes, our team is talking about that, and whether there
Speaker 6: could be a safe zone. We're also talking with the
Speaker 6: Egyptians whether there's an outlet to get these children and
Speaker 6: women out into out of that area at this moment,
Speaker 6: but it's hard.
Speaker 7: You would like to see a humanitarian corridor that allows
Speaker 7: some of the two million gosms out of the area.
Speaker 7: You would like to see humanitarian supplies brought into Gaza. Yes,
Speaker 7: So you do not agree with the Israeli total siege
Speaker 7: of the Gaza strip.
Speaker 6: I'm confident that Israel is going to act under the
Speaker 6: major the rules of war. There's a standards that democratic
Speaker 6: institutions and countries will go go by, and so I'm
Speaker 6: confident that there's going to be an ability for the
Speaker 6: innocence in Gaza to be able to have access to
Speaker 6: medicine and food and water.
Speaker 7: Would you support Israeli occupation of Gaza at this point?
Speaker 6: I think it'd be a big mistake. Look what happened
Speaker 6: in Gaza. In my view, is Hamas and the extreme
Speaker 6: elements of Moss don't represent all the Palestinian people, and
Speaker 6: I think that it would be a mistake to for
Speaker 6: Israel to occupy Gaza again, but to going in and
Speaker 6: taking out the extremist the hes Boa is up north,
Speaker 6: but hamas down south is a necessary requirement.
Speaker 1: So he says he's confident they'll follow the rules of war.
Speaker 1: Of course, as I've already said, they're not. So I
Speaker 1: don't know why you would have that confidence, the thing
Speaker 1: that drives you. I mean, it's interesting, he says. I
Speaker 1: think it'd be a big mistake if they occupied Gaza.
Speaker 1: Indications are that they do not want to reoccupy Gaza,
Speaker 1: so we'll see what happens there. But crazy Sager, is
Speaker 1: this like feigned impotence, Like, wow, we want to, it's
Speaker 1: just really hard. Well, if you actually wanted to, the
Speaker 1: United States of America has tons of leverage in this situation.
Speaker 1: I mean, just like with Ukraine, when we would love
Speaker 1: it if they didn't strike in Russia, and we've asked
Speaker 1: them really nicely, but there's not any willingness to actually
Speaker 1: put the force of US policy carrots and sticks behind
Speaker 1: any of these words, which makes them completely empty and meaningless.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a huge problem.
Speaker 2: And it actually reflects also the biparts and consensus here
Speaker 2: in Washington, which.
Speaker 3: Is really unable to think for the future.
Speaker 2: You laid out also as well with the Israeli side,
Speaker 2: So they're like, Okay, we're going to destroy Hamas, and
Speaker 2: I look, I support that. I think Amas deserves to pay.
Speaker 2: But you know what, what about day two? We never
Speaker 2: had that plan in any rock.
Speaker 4: That's right.
Speaker 2: They have to have the same plan in Gaza. And
Speaker 2: we tried occupying Iraq.
Speaker 3: Didn't work.
Speaker 2: We tried building a democratic system that didn't work either
Speaker 2: ended up backfiring spectacularly. We tried to capitating Aqi al
Speaker 2: Qaeda in Iraq. We killed Zarkawi, mission accomplished Oaks, then
Speaker 2: we created ISIS and that took over all of Iraq
Speaker 2: and Syria.
Speaker 3: Fortieth order consequences exists.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying Israel can do nothing, but they're going
Speaker 2: to really have to. If they had a plan to
Speaker 2: decapitate Hamas and then truly engage in some sort of
Speaker 2: diplomatic process which led to political resolution of the entire thing,
Speaker 2: I'd be like, okay, you know that seems reasonable.
Speaker 3: But we also know that.
Speaker 2: The current government and probably the populace at this point,
Speaker 2: after suffering the terrorist attack, doesn't support that, which means
Speaker 2: we're going to be in a year's long embroilment, just
Speaker 2: like we were in Iraq. The other problem is that
Speaker 2: the White House right now is facing so much pressure
Speaker 2: from the pro Israel politicians and really democratic sentiment. Let's
Speaker 2: also be honest that they are putting things off the
Speaker 2: table that in the future they may want to actually
Speaker 2: call for. You flagged this one in particular, calls for
Speaker 2: a ceasefire called quote repugnant by White House spokesperson Karmie
Speaker 2: Jean Pierre.
Speaker 3: Here's what she had to say.
Speaker 10: What is the president's message to members of Congress who
Speaker 10: seem to be equating the Hamas terror attack with actions
Speaker 10: that were previously taken by Israel.
Speaker 11: Look, here's the thing, and which congressional members.
Speaker 10: Of some members of Congress who have called for a ceasefire,
Speaker 10: and they have not gone as far as backing the
Speaker 10: administration's call for support for Israel.
Speaker 11: So, look, I've seen some of those statements this weekend,
Speaker 11: and we're going to continue to be very clear. We
Speaker 11: believe they're wrong, we believe they're repugnant, and we believe
Speaker 11: they're disgraceful. Our condemnation belongs squarely with terrorists who have
Speaker 11: brutally murdered, rape, kidnapped hundreds, hundreds of Israelis. There can
Speaker 11: be no equivocation about that there are not two sides here.
Speaker 11: There are not two sides. President Biden has been clear
Speaker 11: on where he has stood. You heard him, You heard
Speaker 11: from him directly today, you heard from him also on
Speaker 11: Saturday on this. There's been multiple statements from this president
Speaker 11: and he's taking action to provide additional support to ensure
Speaker 11: that Israel has what they need to defend themselves.
Speaker 1: So question from Phil Wegman there specifically, what do you
Speaker 1: think of these calls for a ceasefire? And she says
Speaker 1: they are repugnant and we believe they are disgraceful to
Speaker 1: call for a ceasefire repugnant and disgraceful. Now put that
Speaker 1: in context with what Biden is saying there about home.
Speaker 1: We want the innocent civilians and we're concerned about and
Speaker 1: we don't want to reoccupation, humanitarian order, etc. On one hand,
Speaker 1: and on the other they're saying anyone who would even say, hey,
Speaker 1: stop the violence repugnant.
Speaker 4: And it's not just that. By the way, this is
Speaker 4: the official poll.
Speaker 1: This wasn't something just like koreein Jean Pierre messed up
Speaker 1: and she didn't get the question right or the answer
Speaker 1: writer or whatever. Put this up on the screen Huffn
Speaker 1: and Posts had this originally washed and Post is now
Speaker 1: confirmed it. The State Department sent out a memo warning
Speaker 1: diplomat's no Gaza de escalation talk, and they gave them
Speaker 1: specific language that they do not want to appear in
Speaker 1: any communications. They wrote that press materials should not include
Speaker 1: three specific phrases de escalation or ceasefire, end to violence
Speaker 1: or bloodshed, and restoring calm. So any talk of peace
Speaker 1: or ending the violence and bloodshed. Officially, the US government's
Speaker 1: policy is that is off the table.
Speaker 2: I think that the major issue is that they see
Speaker 2: this as calling for negotiation or something like that with Hamas,
Speaker 2: and I think that there is a very easy middle
Speaker 2: ground of why they will regret I believe in the
Speaker 2: future is that and what we're going to talk about
Speaker 2: very soon in geopolitics. But I'll mention here is that
Speaker 2: the message is being received loud and clear across the
Speaker 2: Arab world, from MBS in Saudi Arabia and Riod to
Speaker 2: the Qatar, you know, the emir to Iran and the Ayatola,
Speaker 2: which is that the UNITEDS and Egypt actually in Cairo,
Speaker 2: that the United States is co signing what ever Israel
Speaker 2: wants to do. And whatever Biden may say, actions speak
Speaker 2: longer than louder than words. Behavior itself is a language.
Speaker 2: Whenever you do nothing, then that sends a very clear signal.
Speaker 2: And this is reigniting really like a complete like we
Speaker 2: have not seen the Islamic world this united really since
Speaker 2: probably the invasion of Iraq against US, and by unequivocally
Speaker 2: siding with Israel and by not actually drawing any sort
Speaker 2: of nuance or leaving things open in the future, we
Speaker 2: absolutely invite possible escalation in the future, future terrorist attacks
Speaker 2: against US, but more importantly sentiment across the Arab world
Speaker 2: against US. And we're watching this really unfold as President Biden,
Speaker 2: Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln is finding himself really not
Speaker 2: as welcome as he once was in the region two
Speaker 2: weeks ago, two weeks ago, let's put this up there
Speaker 2: on the screen. Anthony Blincoln trying to recreate the Shuttle
Speaker 2: diplomacy famously done by Henry Kissinger. In the last seventy
Speaker 2: two hours, he's visited Israel, the West Bank, Jordan, Qatar, Bahrain,
Speaker 2: Saudi Uae, Saudi again, Egypt, Jordan again, and Israel again.
Speaker 2: On Monday, this all comes you know, before a possible
Speaker 2: visit by President Biden. If we can put the next
Speaker 2: one please up there on the screen. Benjamin Natanyahu, Prime
Speaker 2: Minister of Israel, has invited President Biden. We will see
Speaker 2: whether President Biden does show up in some sort of
Speaker 2: show of support. Obviously it'll be kept under wraps. You
Speaker 2: actually canceled a visit to Colorado today, Crystal. Usually these
Speaker 2: trips are you know, shrouded in secrecy. Yeah, we'll find
Speaker 2: out when he lands in Tel Aviv.
Speaker 1: I saw this morning Channel twelve, which is Israeli on television.
Speaker 1: They're reporting that they're making preparations for a Wednesday or
Speaker 1: Thursday visit. So it's not confirmed. We'll see what happens.
Speaker 1: But it looks like Biden maybe had a to the
Speaker 1: region as well. But let's talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: the reception. Yes, that Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln has
Speaker 1: been getting in some of these countries. So this is
Speaker 1: from the Washing Post. Reporting just came out this morning,
Speaker 1: so we don't have an element for it. But in Riad,
Speaker 1: Saudi ruler MBS kept blink and waiting overnight there was
Speaker 1: a meeting I was supposed to happen in the evening.
Speaker 1: Crown Prince did not show up till the next morning,
Speaker 1: very intentional. Once the meeting began, MBS stressed the need
Speaker 1: to stop the military operations that claim the lives of
Speaker 1: innocent people. They're talking about the Israeli offensive and lift
Speaker 1: the siege of Gaza that has left the Palestinian territory
Speaker 1: without water, electricity, or fuel. That is according to the
Speaker 1: Saudi summary of the meeting. Crown Prince also called for
Speaker 1: a halt in the current escalation in the conflict, direct
Speaker 1: contradiction of US policy, which is back to Israel to
Speaker 1: pursue its maximus goal of eradicating Hamas. Similarly, Chili reception
Speaker 1: in Egypt with Ceci, who took note of I don't
Speaker 1: know if you remember, we played Anthony Blincoln's comments when
Speaker 1: he arrived in Israel saying I am here.
Speaker 4: As a Jew.
Speaker 1: Ceci says, you said, you are a Jew Wish person,
Speaker 1: and I am an Egyptian person who grew up next
Speaker 1: to Jews in Egypt. They have never been subjected to
Speaker 1: any form of oppression or targeting. Not true, but anyway,
Speaker 1: and it has never happened in our region that Jews
Speaker 1: were targeted in recent or old history.
Speaker 3: Also not true.
Speaker 1: Lincoln responded to CC saying, I come as a human
Speaker 1: being who is appalled by habasatrocities. But Sagar, you took
Speaker 1: particular note of what a diplomatic faux pas it was
Speaker 1: that Lincoln made here in Israel.
Speaker 2: I was debating talking about this because I know it's
Speaker 2: so sensitive, but I will because clearly it's ignited a
Speaker 2: firestorm in the Middle East, which is Henry Kissinger, whenever
Speaker 2: he was in the midst of Israel negotiations at the
Speaker 2: height of the Am Kippur War, and all throughout his tenure,
Speaker 2: while trying to bring a solution to the crisis, always
Speaker 2: emphasized a neutral party in shuttle diplomacy to try and
Speaker 2: make sure that the Arab States did not view him
Speaker 2: as like some sort of quote Jewish plant, not my words.
Speaker 2: That's what he was trying to avoid the appearance of.
Speaker 2: And he famously told the Israeli Prime Minister gold in
Speaker 2: my air quo uote Golden, you must remember first, I
Speaker 2: am an American, Second, I am Secretary of State. Third
Speaker 2: I am a Jew. She famously responded, quote, Henry, you
Speaker 2: forget an Israel that we read from right to left.
Speaker 2: It was a great quip and it's famous for her wittiness.
Speaker 2: But the emphasis that he was trying to make all
Speaker 2: throughout his Shuttle diplomacy was I am here on behalf
Speaker 2: of President Richard Nixon, who said some problematic things I
Speaker 2: think about Jews, as we all found out whenever the
Speaker 2: recordings came out. The point though, being that he always
Speaker 2: led with I'm here as a representati of the United
Speaker 2: States and a neutral arbiter who wants to try and
Speaker 2: bring this to a close, as an ally of Israel,
Speaker 2: but also an ally of actual balance in the Middle East.
Speaker 2: I think that Anthony Blincoln, by going to Israel first,
Speaker 2: by leading with that which I can, of course understand
Speaker 2: on a human level from being raised told the stories
Speaker 2: of persecution, he did not understand that it would ignite
Speaker 2: both offense and conspiracy all across the Arab world. Telling
Speaker 2: you this earlier. The thing is, in two thousand and six,
Speaker 2: the Arab world did not have as much social media,
Speaker 2: and we already saw the impact of social media during
Speaker 2: the so called Arab Spring ISLAMISMINT or whatever you want
Speaker 2: to call it. The point though, is that now in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, everybody's got data and everybody's got WhatsApp.
Speaker 2: This stuff flies around all across the world. There are
Speaker 2: two billion Muslims on the planet, and the emotionality of
Speaker 2: the Palestine issue of Jerusalem, of the Alaxamsque is at
Speaker 2: a ten out of ten in terms of what it ignites.
Speaker 2: As we've all watched, there's a lot of Muslims all
Speaker 2: across the world, and even in the West are taken
Speaker 2: to the streets. So really, what I think we're watching
Speaker 2: is that the Arab States, both from Blincoln's rhetoric, from
Speaker 2: Biden's actions and everything in the last week, are like, Okay,
Speaker 2: they're one hundred percent taking Israel side. They're not even
Speaker 2: trying to listen to our perspective, and we're watching as
Speaker 2: the entire Arab world from Cairo. Don't forget this, Cairo
Speaker 2: is the second largest recipient up until Ukraine, of US eight.
Speaker 2: We have paid these people eighty billion dollars over the
Speaker 2: last I think seventy something years, specifically as a counterweight
Speaker 2: to Israel and to try you know, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of legacy of it from Oslo and negotiations and all
Speaker 2: those things in the past. The point, though, is that
Speaker 2: this is supposed to be a friendly regime, and to
Speaker 2: have our secretary of state slapped across the face effectively, rhetorically, yeah,
Speaker 2: in a meeting like this, in a public was a
Speaker 2: direct signal to the rest of the Arab world. And
Speaker 2: I also think of some small d democratic sentiment where
Speaker 2: people are furious I think with Anthony Blincoln for that,
Speaker 2: rightfully or not. I'm just trying to explain how a
Speaker 2: lot of people there are going to internalize a comment
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: Also, when you lead with your religious identity, you instantly
Speaker 1: pour fuel on the fire of what is already a
Speaker 1: very sectarian conflict, and that is the polar opposite of
Speaker 1: the direction that we want to go in. You know,
Speaker 1: if you want to preserve any credibility as some sort
Speaker 1: of a go between a negotiator an actual diplomat, you
Speaker 1: have to try to maintain some semblance of neutrality. Another
Speaker 1: thing you should keep in mind about Cci he is
Speaker 1: no Islamus. He has been jailing a bunch of Islamists
Speaker 1: in Egypt. So for him to take offense in such
Speaker 1: a way that he, as you said, sort of like
Speaker 1: smacks Blincoln in this very public rebuke is quite noteworthy Egypt. Also, obviously,
Speaker 1: you know a critical actor in terms of if we're
Speaker 1: actually serious about some sort of a humanitarian corridor there,
Speaker 1: we're going to be negotiating directly with them, and Egypt
Speaker 1: has historically played a really critical role as a negotiator
Speaker 1: to try to achieve ceasefires and calm between these two parties. So,
Speaker 1: you know, huge huge misstep there from Blincoln and night
Speaker 1: and day between. Before you had the the Abraham Accords
Speaker 1: under the Trump administration, you had this new effort at
Speaker 1: Saudi normalization with Israel under the Biden administration, the idea
Speaker 1: being We're just going to pretend like these Palestinians and
Speaker 1: this whole little issue over here does.
Speaker 4: Not even exist. Those days are long gone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right, And that is the big
Speaker 2: takeaway about US policy and how it's being received. It
Speaker 2: actually connects to our next important segment around the geopolitics
Speaker 2: in the region, and also about the increasing likelihood that
Speaker 2: I think everyone needs to prepare themselves that the United
Speaker 2: States is this close from getting involved in this conflict,
Speaker 2: regardless of what these people say. President Biden frankly even
Speaker 2: setting the ground for that in his sixty minutes interview,
Speaker 2: saying we can do both. We can have a conflict
Speaker 2: in the Middle East and embroils US where the world's
Speaker 2: petroleum supply. We can have a conflict happening in Ukraine
Speaker 2: which is draining US weapons stack piles because we're America.
Speaker 3: Man, here's what he had to say.
Speaker 7: Are the wars in Israel and Ukraine more than the
Speaker 7: United States can take on at the same.
Speaker 6: Tary of the United States of America, for God's sake,
Speaker 6: the most powerful nation in the history, not in the world,
Speaker 6: history of the world, the history of the world. We
Speaker 6: can take care of both of these and still maintain
Speaker 6: our overall international defense.
Speaker 2: We can take care of both of these and maintain
Speaker 2: our overall international defense and crystal. Once upon a time,
Speaker 2: we may have believed that post I Rock and post Afghanistan,
Speaker 2: post shipping AMMO to Ukraine and depleting our weapons stock piles,
Speaker 2: post COVID finding out that we don't make anything in
Speaker 2: this country, that is just absolutely not true. There is
Speaker 2: a very limited amount of military firepower that we have
Speaker 2: access to now. Yes, that is far more than everybody
Speaker 2: else on the planet, but it is not infinite and
Speaker 2: endless as we once thought that it was. For example,
Speaker 2: we are now committing extraordinary amounts of military resources to
Speaker 2: the Eastern Mediterranean. Let's put this up there on the screen. Unprecedented.
Speaker 2: The United States is now sending a second air aircraft
Speaker 2: carrier to the Eastern Mediterranean.
Speaker 3: The US S.
Speaker 2: Eisenhower will join the USS forward off of Israe in
Speaker 2: the Eastern Mediterranean region. Secretary of Defense said that he
Speaker 2: was beginning moving to the Eastern med Quote as part
Speaker 2: of our effort to deter hostile actions against Israel or
Speaker 2: any efforts toward widening this war following Hamasa's attack on Israel.
Speaker 2: This of course is meant to really be a deterrence
Speaker 2: against Iranian involvement. But something you talked about yesterday and
Speaker 2: which again bears highlighting. Please put this up there on
Speaker 2: the screen, is a secret message has been communicated via
Speaker 2: Tehran to Tel Aviv. They warn Israel through the United
Speaker 2: Nations against a ground offensive in Gaza. What they said
Speaker 2: via the UN was this, if you go into Gaza
Speaker 2: in a full scale invasion and a major offensive and
Speaker 2: it results in mass civilian death, that Iran does not
Speaker 2: want to be in this conflict, it does not want
Speaker 2: to be into a regional war, but that they will
Speaker 2: have no choice and they stressed quote Iran has red lines.
Speaker 2: He said that if the Israeli military operation continues, and
Speaker 2: especially if Israel follows through on its promise of a
Speaker 2: ground offensive, Iran will have to respond. That is almost
Speaker 2: certainly a threat of Hezbolah increasing involvement. Already we have
Speaker 2: minor clashes that are happening in a possible two front scenario.
Speaker 2: We could put this up there on the screen. Confirmed
Speaker 2: by the Times of Israel. One person has already been
Speaker 2: killed in Israel in a renewed Hesbola missile attack, and
Speaker 2: the IDF is heavily restricting the Lebanon border area, in
Speaker 2: addition to rocket fire and other things that are exchanged
Speaker 2: across both sides. That is the complete nightmare scenario in
Speaker 2: signs of even more widening conflict.
Speaker 3: For example, put this up there. Just a couple of
Speaker 3: days ago.
Speaker 2: Israel bombed one of the major Aleppo airports in Syria
Speaker 2: and actually put it out of service because they said
Speaker 2: that it was the source of missile attacks and has
Speaker 2: previously had simultaneous missile attacks by IDF forces, for example
Speaker 2: in Damascus. All of this just shows us that you
Speaker 2: could easily have a spiraling scenario where one wrong person
Speaker 2: is killed where and.
Speaker 3: Exactly as I've laid out before.
Speaker 2: If we get into a scenario where mass death happens
Speaker 2: inside Gaza, I'm talking ten to fifty thousand and fifty
Speaker 2: thousand to one hundred thousand civilians, then it is just
Speaker 2: there is simply no scenario in my mind where Hesbola
Speaker 2: and the regional actors do not get involved in some way,
Speaker 2: maybe Crystal, they don't declare official war.
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter. These are non state actors in and
Speaker 3: of itself.
Speaker 2: And you could have a flocking to Syria, to the
Speaker 2: borders all surrounding Israel, Egypt, Jordan, and Egypt, Jordan and Syria,
Speaker 2: where global like a call for global jihad happens, just
Speaker 2: like happening in Isis, you'll have a swarming inside of
Speaker 2: the country, suicide bombers, all the other nightmare that we
Speaker 2: saw in Mosl and throughout the Islamic State. And there's
Speaker 2: from the posture that we already have and the rhetoric
Speaker 2: in the United States, do you really not see how
Speaker 2: close we are right now to war with Iran, or
Speaker 2: war with hesbel Lot, or US getting involved even from
Speaker 2: a you know, from an air perspective, don't forget what
Speaker 2: happened in Libya. And the thing is is that, let's say,
Speaker 2: even if we do avoid a war with Iran, well,
Speaker 2: our intervention with Libya was no peach and the destruction
Speaker 2: of the entire country. We could see regimes toppled even
Speaker 2: by this. If they work with the US, they're going
Speaker 2: to face major pushback from their own populations. If they
Speaker 2: declare war, they could you know, end themselves up in
Speaker 2: a problem. Who knows the level of destabilization that could
Speaker 2: enter this. So I think everyone needs to really keep
Speaker 2: in mind we are entering a period of extreme uncertainty,
Speaker 2: and with this much firepower dedicated in this region and
Speaker 2: direct US backing for whatever happens, we could easily find
Speaker 2: ourselves in this, in this conflict in days from now.
Speaker 3: Easily it could happen.
Speaker 1: You're going to hear some of this when we play
Speaker 1: for you our focus group. The American people very very
Speaker 1: sympathetic to Israel and what they're going for and mostly
Speaker 1: behind their actions in Gaza. Very different question when you
Speaker 1: ask about do you support us getting more directly involved?
Speaker 1: A very different question if you're talking about an active,
Speaker 1: hot war with Iran and I don't think anyone should
Speaker 1: delude themselves about what a chaotic and dangerous situation that
Speaker 1: we're in right now. I thought doctor Parsi had a
Speaker 1: good thread about how even though it appears that none
Speaker 1: of the three parties, Iran, Israel, or the US actually
Speaker 1: wants to go to war, even that being the case,
Speaker 1: there is still a very real possibility that we end
Speaker 1: up in one in spite of that, because of the
Speaker 1: actions that the three parties are taking. In particular, he says,
Speaker 1: Israeli success in Gaza will give Israel freer hands to
Speaker 1: go after Hesbla. Hesbela may not be able to prevent
Speaker 1: an Israeli victory, but it will have a compelling interest
Speaker 1: to turn it Puric and by that make it too
Speaker 1: costly for Israel to extend it into Lebanon. So the
Speaker 1: idea being, if Israel is too brutal in Gaza, Hezbela
Speaker 1: will feel compelled to get more directly involved. You're already
Speaker 1: seeing this sporadic fighting as it is. Hesbelah's involvement, in turn,
Speaker 1: will bring Iran much more directly into the conflict. Aroun's
Speaker 1: foreign ministers warned that unless Israel stops its attacks, the
Speaker 1: war will be widened in Israel will suffer quote a
Speaker 1: huge earthquake. Those are the comments that we were mentioning
Speaker 1: before Iran and Hesbla's involvement will pressure Biden to intervene
Speaker 1: despite clear US interest in staying out. There is little
Speaker 1: in Biden's conduct that suggests he will prioritize America's long
Speaker 1: term strategic interest over what is politically expedient for him
Speaker 1: in the immediate term. Direct American military intervention in Gaza
Speaker 1: or against HESBLA and Iran is all but certain to
Speaker 1: generate major attacks against US troops throughout the Middle East.
Speaker 1: So there is that's the chain of escalation that could
Speaker 1: quickly get out of hand based on the actions that
Speaker 1: all three of these parties are already taking in their
Speaker 1: reas y.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, and just to again underscore about what I
Speaker 2: was talking about previously with respect to Anthony Blincoln and
Speaker 2: how he has been badly received in the Middle East.
Speaker 2: We are realigning old adversaries towards each other who are
Speaker 2: united against US and against Israel by proxy. Put this
Speaker 2: up there on the screen. For example, Iran's president and
Speaker 2: the Saudi Crown Prince NBS spoke for the very first
Speaker 2: time ever in history that did not happen as a
Speaker 2: result of US diplomacy trying to get Saudi Israel. Instead,
Speaker 2: we realigned the two of them where they agreed on
Speaker 2: a call to watch what currently happens in the Gaza
Speaker 2: strip and to come out against Israeli airstrikes, just to
Speaker 2: give people an example of how these governments will be
Speaker 2: either forced by their own policy or by their people
Speaker 2: to respond to the actions that are inside and which
Speaker 2: will absolutely impact US policy, US troops, even if we
Speaker 2: don't end up in an actual nation state war, it's
Speaker 2: a nightmare enough to be involved with na should state actors.
Speaker 2: Ask anybody who fought against ISIS or AQI or any
Speaker 2: of those others inside of Iraq, and it just means
Speaker 2: more instability, more chaos, more likelihood of a domestic terror
Speaker 2: attack here at home, which then invites more foreign intervention abroad.
Speaker 2: All of these are parts of a very very vicious
Speaker 2: cycle of which there absolutely is a major, major risk
Speaker 2: right now ahead. And it's clear that the US policymakers
Speaker 2: are either to inept or don't care, or are I
Speaker 2: guess desirable for this sort of outcome based upon the
Speaker 2: entire bipartisan system that in the way it's operating right now. Anyway,
Speaker 2: you teased our focus group and how voters are thinking
Speaker 2: about this. We've got James, our moderator, standing by and
Speaker 2: an addition, will show you the clips.
Speaker 3: Let's get to it.
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, very excited to have some focus group
Speaker 1: results to bring you all. We're going to bring this
Speaker 1: to you all. This week they tackled a whole variety
Speaker 1: of topics, but today we wanted to keep the focus
Speaker 1: on Israel and gozen So joining us to break down
Speaker 1: the results. We have James Johnson of Jail Parks Or,
Speaker 1: who was there conducting the focus group.
Speaker 4: Great to see Usar, thank you, great to see too,
Speaker 4: fur So.
Speaker 1: Keep in mind, guys, these were democratic base voters in
Speaker 1: and around Atlanta. Let's take a listen to what they
Speaker 1: thought about what's going on in Israel and Gaza.
Speaker 12: I'm sure some of people have seen in the news
Speaker 12: or something that's been dominating in the news recently. Is
Speaker 12: with the events that have been happening in Israel, in
Speaker 12: the Middle East, obviously in Gaza as well.
Speaker 3: How closely, if at all, are you following this.
Speaker 13: I was interested to see because I thought this could
Speaker 13: be the first of a lot of bad things that
Speaker 13: could happen in the Middle East, especially like was saying,
Speaker 13: with Russia and Ukraine, and I feel like a lot
Speaker 13: of things are often uneasy, And I was also worried
Speaker 13: to see if this would lead to any kind of
Speaker 13: anti Semitic or anti islam sentiments both in Western Europe
Speaker 13: and the US outside of what was going on.
Speaker 14: In the Middle East.
Speaker 15: I try to look at both sides because it seems
Speaker 15: like each side has been kind of hammering at the
Speaker 15: other one for so long that it's hard to take sides.
Speaker 15: I just feel really sad for the humanitarian crisis. I mean,
Speaker 15: one point one million people being forced to leave their
Speaker 15: homes and they have twenty four hours to do that.
Speaker 15: Where are they going to go?
Speaker 16: For me, I needed to educate myself more about the
Speaker 16: history before, you know, trying to choose a side, because
Speaker 16: I know through throughout, especially on social media, a lot
Speaker 16: of people are taking side. So I took more of
Speaker 16: the stance and was trying to educate myself about the
Speaker 16: history of both countries to kind of get a better
Speaker 16: understanding of like how did they get to this point today?
Speaker 17: Probably innocent victims would be number one for me, some
Speaker 17: concerns for America and also sadness for my Jewish friends.
Speaker 18: I was watching and they was talking about all the
Speaker 18: peoples that had died and how they did the children
Speaker 18: and how they cut the babies and children heads off.
Speaker 18: It was like kind of really disturbing. You know, what's
Speaker 18: going on in the area is terrible. When is it
Speaker 18: gonna end or with?
Speaker 3: What do you think Israel's response is going to be?
Speaker 15: Now?
Speaker 14: Well, I fear that we're going to escalate so that
Speaker 14: more countries will have to get involved, and so it
Speaker 14: will end up being something much more major and a
Speaker 14: lot more people are going to die.
Speaker 15: Well, I feel like Israel is always really hardcore when
Speaker 15: it comes to defending themselves, and so they're gonna just
Speaker 15: blast the Palestinians.
Speaker 17: Retaliation was the first thought that came to my mind.
Speaker 3: That's scary.
Speaker 13: I'm worried that there's been a weird situation where Israel's
Speaker 13: going to say that they haven't committed any war crimes
Speaker 13: because they tell the people of Palestine they have twenty
Speaker 13: four hours to move out when they don't have the
Speaker 13: ability to do that, and then when civilians do die,
Speaker 13: Israel's going to say that they didn't commit war crimes.
Speaker 13: Obviously Palestine's going to say that they do. And it's
Speaker 13: going to be a weird situation because Israel has the
Speaker 13: support of the UN and Palestine doesn't. But palsin does
Speaker 13: have the local support of it the entire region other
Speaker 13: than Israel, and so I think it's going to end
Speaker 13: up with even worse relations between the Western world in
Speaker 13: Israel versus all of the rest of their reas.
Speaker 12: If there is now an invasion of Gaza by Israel,
Speaker 12: which is being talked about, I think it's being referred
Speaker 12: to as a ground invasion and occupation. Is that a
Speaker 12: reasonable response? Is that an unreasonable response from Israel? And why?
Speaker 12: I mean, how do you feel about that?
Speaker 17: That's so hard for me to say, because I don't
Speaker 17: want anybody to be fighting. I don't want anybody to
Speaker 17: be losing their lives. But you also have to people
Speaker 17: have to protect their citizens too, So I.
Speaker 14: Think there's a reasonable response. You should have stayed in
Speaker 14: your place and not this alone. I don't think you
Speaker 14: can go to the country's land and you know, do
Speaker 14: that and not expect the response back.
Speaker 18: We got to protect that says that not just for them,
Speaker 18: that's for everyone. It is really just trying to stand
Speaker 18: up and protect their people. You know they've been invaded,
Speaker 18: So what do you do?
Speaker 3: Do you do nothing?
Speaker 19: Is just that?
Speaker 3: Or do you fight?
Speaker 12: Thinking specifically about how President Biden's responded to the crisis
Speaker 12: so far, how do we feel you're doing well? You're
Speaker 12: doing badly.
Speaker 13: I saw the biggest worship we have in our navy movies,
Speaker 13: the Air Force. It's the largest scholarship or so that
Speaker 13: they have. They put it in the Mediterranean, and I
Speaker 13: think that's a really good sign that we're there to support.
Speaker 13: I wouldn't want him to take action against the Palestinians,
Speaker 13: but I like that he's showing the US as a presence.
Speaker 14: I agree that I don't want him to take action.
Speaker 14: We have our own issues to deal with.
Speaker 17: My opinion is he doesn't quite know what to do
Speaker 17: yet or what to say. He's maybe still thinking everything
Speaker 17: through it in the options and doing a wait and see.
Speaker 3: Good thing. We're bad thing? To me, it's a good thing.
Speaker 12: What role should the US play now? Should they be
Speaker 12: trying to break a peace? Should they be supporting Israel militarily?
Speaker 12: Should they be doing something else? What? What should the
Speaker 12: US do in response.
Speaker 18: Now continue to partake Israel because I think the majority
Speaker 18: are blesses and I'm spiritual a lot, but I'm used
Speaker 18: to kind of natural because I've been praying for Israel
Speaker 18: since you know, God say me, so, I say they
Speaker 18: gonna be He's gonna be full forced to protect Israel.
Speaker 12: Costs, coasts, all costs.
Speaker 3: It's no answer.
Speaker 18: What you're gonna do to protect Israel.
Speaker 17: I think the US now should also do what they
Speaker 17: can to protect the innocent victims in Israel. I mean,
Speaker 17: there's so many children, Yeah, and it's heartbreaking.
Speaker 3: What does that mean though?
Speaker 14: That mean?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you're president, but what.
Speaker 2: Does that mean?
Speaker 4: It just goes back to my whole. I just don't
Speaker 4: want there to be any more.
Speaker 17: And if we I feel like, if we take a
Speaker 17: super strong stance, it's not going to stop, and it's
Speaker 17: going it's gonna get worse.
Speaker 14: We go over there and like step in, it could
Speaker 14: be a lot worse.
Speaker 13: I think they should maintain the original borders that Israel
Speaker 13: had to protect Israel, but also not have them push
Speaker 13: a ground war into the Godsa Strip. If they need
Speaker 13: to have a military presence to protect Israel, I would
Speaker 13: get behind that, but moving anything into what currently or
Speaker 13: as of two weeks ago, palaced in Inland, I think
Speaker 13: is too far.
Speaker 15: I don't think we should get involved militarily. I think
Speaker 15: you mentioned something about broker in peace. I think that's important.
Speaker 15: I think probably we would provide humanitarian aid for those
Speaker 15: who have been displaced, help with the refugees, and kind
Speaker 15: of dovetailing off of what he said, I think providing
Speaker 15: intelligence and targeting Hamas because there's so many innocent people
Speaker 15: who are involved in Just like in this country, everybody
Speaker 15: wants to live a happy, peaceful life, and these folks
Speaker 15: lives have been disrupted by this terrorist group. So just
Speaker 15: like we targeted al Qaida, we need to go, you know,
Speaker 15: target Hamas.
Speaker 16: I mean the role that I would like them to
Speaker 16: play is just to kind of just be like that
Speaker 16: mediary like for both sides, so they can just get
Speaker 16: to some time of peace or resolution, because in the
Speaker 16: sense of like all these innocent lives on both.
Speaker 3: Sides, they're dying.
Speaker 16: They have nothing to do with this war and this conflict.
Speaker 16: This was going on for years, so it's just unfair
Speaker 16: to the general population on both sides of what's.
Speaker 3: You know, happen to them now.
Speaker 19: I just think that when you start getting involved and
Speaker 19: then it's just gonna escalating, they may bring all of
Speaker 19: that here. It's like, what's gonna bring peace?
Speaker 3: What's gonna bring peace?
Speaker 14: I think that we should provide some humanitarian aid, try
Speaker 14: to broke your peace. But I also think we need
Speaker 14: to pay attention to the other regions of the world
Speaker 14: because I think they're watching us closer to see what
Speaker 14: the response is gonna be.
Speaker 12: Who would support in principle US military involvement.
Speaker 18: I think that you just gonna get in there and
Speaker 18: just wipe them out and be through with it, you know,
Speaker 18: to wipe out that people that's fighting again Israel. I
Speaker 18: think that I think he should be for is real
Speaker 18: at all.
Speaker 16: College cool, I guess, because right now what's happing on
Speaker 16: is just innocent people dying on both sides that are dying.
Speaker 4: So zach ceriance, you know, just to clarifying.
Speaker 18: Yeah, but we got the ready that we didn't start
Speaker 18: the war, you know, and we wasn't really a part
Speaker 18: of the war. The war wasn't for us, but by
Speaker 18: the United States standing for Israel. I think they need
Speaker 18: to stand for fourth.
Speaker 19: I'm just for peace. I just feel like, what would
Speaker 19: bring peace? You said nothing, no peace, But I don't
Speaker 19: agree with people dying.
Speaker 3: This is just the beginning of wars and roumans of wars.
Speaker 18: I mean, more stuff gonna happen that we don't see
Speaker 18: going on with Israel, and.
Speaker 13: I would support military involvement as long as they stay
Speaker 13: within the current borders of Israel West anyone.
Speaker 15: Else, I would just support sending in peacekeepers.
Speaker 3: I'd rather.
Speaker 14: Stay out of it, but if we had to, then.
Speaker 20: We have to.
Speaker 14: I'm thinking that a defensive posture for Israel would be okay.
Speaker 14: I wouldn't want to see us take any offensive action.
Speaker 3: I think the rest of the world is watching to
Speaker 3: see what we're going to.
Speaker 1: Do, really really interesting. Obviously you have a wide variety
Speaker 1: of views there. You know, people are saying, just want peace.
Speaker 1: I think Mary is in the front row, who you know,
Speaker 1: is very adamant, like we should get in there at
Speaker 1: all costs. What was the energy in the room because
Speaker 1: one of the things, honestly that I was struck by
Speaker 1: after you know, we spent so much time online seeing
Speaker 1: just the like insanely like outright genocidal talk and hatred
Speaker 1: and vitriol on both sides, that they were even able
Speaker 1: to have this conversation which is very emotionally fraught with
Speaker 1: a variety of opinions, in like a human, respectful kind
Speaker 1: of way.
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think it's a reminder not to underestimate the public.
Speaker 12: You know, they are capable of having noticed these things
Speaker 12: and talking about it in an intelligent way. You saw
Speaker 12: a range of opinions there, as you say, Mary and
Speaker 12: a couple of others on the more strident side, others
Speaker 12: a bit more of the sort of view of well,
Speaker 12: there are both sides, we need to look at peace.
Speaker 12: I think two things run through that group as a whole.
Speaker 12: One was is that they're quite sort of up for
Speaker 12: being led on this issue.
Speaker 1: I took that away too, that if you had someone
Speaker 1: coming out make it a strong message or whatever the
Speaker 1: media is saying, you could see them being very swede
Speaker 1: by people that they trusted.
Speaker 12: On the issue exactly, and particularly if it came from Biden.
Speaker 12: We'll see later through the week. You know their views
Speaker 12: on President Biden. But actually there's a respect for him
Speaker 12: amongst this group, and they think they think of him
Speaker 12: an experienced figure who can sort of help lead them through.
Speaker 12: So certainly on that side. I think there is that
Speaker 12: leadership point. And the second thing that came through is
Speaker 12: that you know, this is the Democrat base in Atlanta.
Speaker 12: These are Democrat primary voters. Polling tends to show them
Speaker 12: being a little bit more on the liberal side of
Speaker 12: perhaps democratic leadership, and particularly Joe Biden. You saw here
Speaker 12: a more strident military role being called for by them
Speaker 12: than we've already even heard from the Biden administration so far.
Speaker 12: Even the more softly spoken members of that group were
Speaker 12: quite up for having US troops in Israel defending their
Speaker 12: current borders. So, you know, a much more strident view,
Speaker 12: perhaps a little bit unexpected if you looked at what
Speaker 12: the polling might say.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is fascinating.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's why we like doing these and we
Speaker 2: like you being able to tease them out, is because
Speaker 2: we get to things here and see things that you know,
Speaker 2: not even in the public realm and not even necessarily
Speaker 2: how people would think comport with you know, supposed public
Speaker 2: opinion polling. What else did you notice in terms of
Speaker 2: the conversation, not just Israel, Gaza and all that, but
Speaker 2: their ability to disagree with each other. Where were the
Speaker 2: broad agreements and disagreements and what were the contours. Was
Speaker 2: it about media diet, was it age? Like where did
Speaker 2: you see these things start to break apart?
Speaker 12: I think there's an age element for sure. I think
Speaker 12: the younger and more people more likely to get news
Speaker 12: from sources other than cable news. There was a bit
Speaker 12: more of a sort of openness to what perhaps was
Speaker 12: going on the other side, that sort of both sides ism,
Speaker 12: I suppose you sort of saw coming through there for
Speaker 12: the younger groups, the older groups much more of a
Speaker 12: sort of cultural affinity with Israel. And you saw that
Speaker 12: exemplified by Mary so clearly. Yeah, you know, for her,
Speaker 12: as she said, there, you know God and Jesus had
Speaker 12: saved her, and she said, you know, she prays for
Speaker 12: Israel in the same way that she prays to God.
Speaker 12: So there's that cultural affinity for her there that perhaps
Speaker 12: wasn't so clear in the younger groups. But look, another
Speaker 12: thing that unified group was the horror and discuss of
Speaker 12: what had happened. There was no sort of conspiracy theory
Speaker 12: in there. There was no sort of sense that Israel
Speaker 12: might have Mani placed these images, which is one of
Speaker 12: the theory you know of one of the crazier conspiracy
Speaker 12: theories going around online. There was a sense of, you know,
Speaker 12: of real sort of abject horror what happened. And it's
Speaker 12: interesting because that's quite different from what we see in
Speaker 12: our UK focus groups. There there's a lot more sort
Speaker 12: of doubt and conspiracy, and I think we see that
Speaker 12: in Europe as well, and a lot more of a
Speaker 12: sort of doubt about what what Israel are saying. I
Speaker 12: think it comes down to that cultural affinity point, you know,
Speaker 12: in the US and Israel stronger allies.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's absolutely right, and the media here
Speaker 1: has consistently been much more pro Israel and has done
Speaker 1: very little to ever centerity the humanity of Palestinian. So
Speaker 1: you mentioned while we were watching, there was a real
Speaker 1: conflation oftentimes of Humas and the Palestinian people, and a
Speaker 1: number of participants you know, really didn't have a clear
Speaker 1: line in their mind between these two groups. Another thing
Speaker 1: that's stuck out to me as at odds with how
Speaker 1: the Biden administration has positioned themselves is you had, you know,
Speaker 1: the majority of the group saying we want peace, we
Speaker 1: don't want war, we want to send in peacekeepers, we
Speaker 1: want you know, we want negotiations, we want to plumac,
Speaker 1: we want the US to be involved in that. Whereas
Speaker 1: you had Kareem Jean Pierre as representative the Biden White
Speaker 1: House saying calls for a ceasefire quote unquote repugnant. You
Speaker 1: had a memo going out to State Department officials saying
Speaker 1: we do not want you using words about ending the bloodshed,
Speaker 1: ending the violence, restoring calm, or cease fire. So in
Speaker 1: that way, the Biden administration appears to be very dissonant
Speaker 1: with where a bulk of the group is, outside of
Speaker 1: a few like Mary, who you know, was very clear
Speaker 1: about how her faith is very much informing her view
Speaker 1: of this conflict as well.
Speaker 12: I think that's where we get, you know, public opinion
Speaker 12: and policy rubbing up against each other. Some of the
Speaker 12: people in the group who talks about the need for
Speaker 12: peace and peacekeepers and you know, we just need to
Speaker 12: make sure we minimize civilian lives. When I push them
Speaker 12: on the how quite fairly, they didn't. They didn't know how,
Speaker 12: And I think you know that that's where we're going
Speaker 12: to see a bit of a bit of attention. The
Speaker 12: other thing I felt about that group was it was
Speaker 12: pretty they've got a very bleak view of where this
Speaker 12: is going to head. There's no optimism in here.
Speaker 4: I don't know how you could have other than them.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 12: Absolutely, But you know, they also thought that this would
Speaker 12: spill into a potential global conflict, even potentially with the
Speaker 12: US involved.
Speaker 2: Right, James, how much are they paying attention? That's one
Speaker 2: thing that struck me is I was like, wow, you know,
Speaker 2: in the particularly the younger gentlemen, I was like, this guy
Speaker 2: is reading the news. And I talk a lot about
Speaker 2: here on the show, the news is not centered for
Speaker 2: the vast majority of people.
Speaker 3: You know, they're going about their lives.
Speaker 2: They may tune in every once in a while, but
Speaker 2: this seemed like a pretty informed group. Now, of course
Speaker 2: they are primary voters, they're probably going to be more
Speaker 2: engaged than normal, but it did seem like they were
Speaker 2: playing pretty close attention to the situation right now.
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think this is one of these rare moments
Speaker 12: where people turn on table news and they watched the
Speaker 12: live footage. And I know that a couple of reporters
Speaker 12: said that over the weekend last weekend, after the attacks,
Speaker 12: they're on planes and they were seeing you know, sort
Speaker 12: of twenty five fifty percent of people on the plane
Speaker 12: watching the the live cable news you know shows which
Speaker 12: they never has it. Yeah, right, So I think I
Speaker 12: think this was this was one of those rare moments
Speaker 12: where it's a cable news moment, and obviously that's not
Speaker 12: go a hold, but I think that informs a bit
Speaker 12: of what we saw that I think you're.
Speaker 1: Right, James, just give us a little bit of a
Speaker 1: preview of some of the other interesting divides that we're
Speaker 1: going to be sharing with our audience here throughout the week.
Speaker 12: Absolutely so, we sent it in on President Biden's leadership
Speaker 12: as well as Kamala Harris. So we saw some really
Speaker 12: interesting insights. I won't spoil it, but it might not
Speaker 12: be the best reading for Kamala Harris, the best listening
Speaker 12: for for Kamala Harris.
Speaker 1: Mary I heard had some strong people.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 12: Later we also did this fantastic exercise where we asked
Speaker 12: the respondents to draw what they thought Biden would be
Speaker 12: if he was an animal and Trump would be if
Speaker 12: he was an animal. And we've got some great artwork
Speaker 12: for you. That's such a cool you know what, It's
Speaker 12: entirely down to one of my colleagues. I can't take
Speaker 12: credit for this idea, but it was genius and it
Speaker 12: tells you a lot about how they see the few candidates.
Speaker 12: So lots more coming in store.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, Well, I just want to thank all of
Speaker 2: us a premium subscribers. You guys enable us to be
Speaker 2: able to do this news content that some other channels
Speaker 2: are not doing. Jail partners James as well of course,
Speaker 2: and shout out to Adam Duffy, a college newspaper guy
Speaker 2: from Atlanta who helped out our crew as well. That's
Speaker 2: from Griffin as well as all of our crew that
Speaker 2: was able to travel down there to Atlanta. You guys
Speaker 2: are the ones helping enable and pay for this, so
Speaker 2: we thank you all very much. Breakingpoints dot com if
Speaker 2: you are able and James, we are going to have
Speaker 2: great content featured by you all over our channels being.
Speaker 1: Great job leading these discussions and making people feel comfortable
Speaker 1: expressing whatever it is their opinion is.
Speaker 4: So thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, guying Absolutely It's not the last time
Speaker 2: we'll be working together, so we'll see you again. At
Speaker 2: the same time, we are tracking global public opinion. There
Speaker 2: have been massive protests all across the world. We can
Speaker 2: show you some video from the here you can see
Speaker 2: in London right in the middle of the UK.
Speaker 3: This is in Cairo. Here we have New.
Speaker 2: York City, we have continuing in Glasgow and Scotland. We
Speaker 2: have Aman, Jordan. The Jordanian one in particular was massive.
Speaker 2: This is in Lahore in Pakistan, Dublin in Ireland. These
Speaker 2: been put together by Al Jazeerra Cape Town, South Africa,
Speaker 2: where their president also voice support Baghdad.
Speaker 3: In Iraq, Naples in Italy.
Speaker 2: The point that we're trying to put together here, Crystal
Speaker 2: is that yes, we've seen massive pro Israel protests of
Speaker 2: course here in the United States, but a major highlight
Speaker 2: from these is cities with large Islamic populations and then
Speaker 2: also Islamic and Arab countries themselves, is seeing a huge
Speaker 2: outpouring of protests for the Palestinian cause. The reason again
Speaker 2: that this connects to our geopolitics segment that we did earlier,
Speaker 2: is about dragging the US possibly further into the conflict,
Speaker 2: mobilizing much of the world against US if we do
Speaker 2: not finesse our policy here very very carefully. It also
Speaker 2: comes at a time when Western governments are really beginning
Speaker 2: to crack down on dissent in their own countries put
Speaker 2: this up there on the screen. We have a bit
Speaker 2: of a mash up here. For example, from the Independent
Speaker 2: flying a Palestinian flag in the UK quote may not
Speaker 2: be legitimate according to their Home secretary. In France, they
Speaker 2: have ordered a ban on all pro Palestinian protests from
Speaker 2: the Interior minister themselves in order to quote clamp down
Speaker 2: on anti Semitism. From Haretz, the Lacude Minister has formulated
Speaker 2: an emergency regulation to imprisoned citizens who quote.
Speaker 3: Harm national morale.
Speaker 2: This is inside of Israel, to be clear, that's like
Speaker 2: alien and sedition level stuff. And then even here I
Speaker 2: gotta say not too happy about this one, Senator Josh
Speaker 2: Holly calling for the DOJ to investigate student led pro
Speaker 2: Palestinian groups on college campuses person all weaponization. The governments
Speaker 2: really like to keep our FBI out of student groups.
Speaker 2: Didn't go so well the last time that that happened,
Speaker 2: even if you know any group in particular. And finally,
Speaker 2: in terms of social media, it has been such a
Speaker 2: nightmare for our team sifting what is true what is not,
Speaker 2: to try and frame everything and make sure and be like, hey,
Speaker 2: this is from al Jazeero, So it's got a pro
Speaker 2: Palestinian bias. Hey, this is from BBC or whatever from
Speaker 2: the West, so it's got this type of bias. But
Speaker 2: the problem is that we are seeing mass censorship now
Speaker 2: applied on social media. We can put this up there,
Speaker 2: for example, on the screen from Meta aka Facebook suspending
Speaker 2: the page of the Kuds News network. That's a Palestinian
Speaker 2: news organization that, to be clear, is affiliated with Hamas.
Speaker 2: I'm not defending their affiliation or any of that, but
Speaker 2: I do think it is important. As always, I spoke
Speaker 2: up for our tea and I'll speak up for it now.
Speaker 2: Is I want to know what these people are saying.
Speaker 2: You know, it was a very important moment Chris, when
Speaker 2: we played here on the show. That translated segment from
Speaker 2: a HAMAS leader being like, hey, we're going to slaughter
Speaker 2: people if we don't see if we have air strikes
Speaker 2: that continue. It's important to hear what the quote unquote
Speaker 2: enemy or with the other side is saying, just to
Speaker 2: be like, okay, this is what they're telling people in
Speaker 2: terms of their internal communications. It is actually to be
Speaker 2: able to see and to hear, and we can always
Speaker 2: I think all of us are smart enough to take
Speaker 2: things with a grain of salt and to sit here
Speaker 2: and to actually try and look at things in context.
Speaker 2: And so to see the banning of this massive Facebook
Speaker 2: page which was like a center for sharing information, I
Speaker 2: understand why people are like, oh, but we have to crack.
Speaker 3: Down on it.
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, less information just
Speaker 2: means we're more in the dark. And that's more that
Speaker 2: we have to rely on, you know, somebody else's translation
Speaker 2: or somebody else's view of what's happening with this and this.
Speaker 2: I just I really would venture to say, not a
Speaker 2: single person on earth is going to be like pro Israel.
Speaker 2: Then see a Goods News Network thing shared to their
Speaker 2: page and be like, you know what, Nope, now I'm Palestinian.
Speaker 3: But it's not how the world works.
Speaker 1: Well, it's especially critical in a situation like this when
Speaker 1: I mean there are very few journalists allowed into Gaza.
Speaker 1: I mean in terms of getting actual information, video footage, etc.
Speaker 1: From the ground, it is really important to have it
Speaker 1: as many sources as we possibly can. And you know,
Speaker 1: this is something we stood up for our Tea when
Speaker 1: they were getting banned all over the place. Not that
Speaker 1: we have any love for them, They're not full of
Speaker 1: propaganda and all that stuff as well. So it's you know,
Speaker 1: about applying a consistent principle here and this is not.
Speaker 1: This is far from the first time that Facebook slash
Speaker 1: Meta has worked directly with the Israeli government who told
Speaker 1: them you need to censor or take down this and
Speaker 1: that and the other group in a similar fashion that they,
Speaker 1: you know, have also worked with the United States government.
Speaker 1: I'm sure other governments around the world. I just want
Speaker 1: to give you to give you a sense of how
Speaker 1: wild and insane and heavy handed some of this censorship
Speaker 1: has become. I mean, on its face, banning protests in France,
Speaker 1: also in Germany, and this is not you know, we're
Speaker 1: just going to ban like if you're pro Homa, no
Speaker 1: any sympathize sympathy with the Palestinian cause.
Speaker 4: That protest completely banned. That is wild.
Speaker 1: This proposed regulation with in Israel, which there's a lot
Speaker 1: of talk about, oh Israel, the Middle easterns, democracy, etc.
Speaker 3: Etc.
Speaker 1: Which you know, the Palestinians will live in Israel, may
Speaker 1: beg to differ. But what is being suggested here is
Speaker 1: that these regulations would allow the Communications Minister directly to
Speaker 1: tell police to arrest civilians remove them from their homes
Speaker 1: or seize their property if he personally believes that they
Speaker 1: have spread information that could quote harm national morale or
Speaker 1: serve as the basis for enemy propaganda. This was drafted
Speaker 1: in consultation with National Security Minister in Amar Ben Gavier,
Speaker 1: who is one of, if not the most extreme member
Speaker 1: of Natanyahu's cabinet. It would apply to the general public
Speaker 1: and the media as well as both local, local and
Speaker 1: foreign media. Will also apply to the publication of factually
Speaker 1: correct statements at the Minister's discretion. So it is the
Speaker 1: most dystopian, big Brother nightmarish thing you can poss imagine
Speaker 1: that is being proposed here. And you know, Soger, this
Speaker 1: issue has always even when emotions intentions are not as
Speaker 1: high as they are right now, this issue and how
Speaker 1: you talk about Israel and Palestine, i would argue, has
Speaker 1: always been the most central locus of quote unquote cancel culture,
Speaker 1: especially when you consider explicit laws against supporting the DS
Speaker 1: which have been enacted in a lot of states across
Speaker 1: the country. When you see the number of jobs that
Speaker 1: have been lost, calumnists have lost their jobs, you know,
Speaker 1: university positions which have been canceled, et cetera. And and
Speaker 1: we're about to get into this when you see the
Speaker 1: reaction to that statement which I objected to, that Harvard
Speaker 1: student groups put out. But it's not just hey, let's
Speaker 1: you know, call it out and say we disagree. It's
Speaker 1: we want to know who they are, we want to
Speaker 1: dock them, we want to blacklist them for literally their
Speaker 1: entire lives. That is the reaction to saying the quote
Speaker 1: unquote wrong thing on this issue.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, we know a lot of people who are
Speaker 2: pro Israel who are getting caught up in the moment
Speaker 2: and who otherwise would not be for or would oppose
Speaker 2: much of that type of action that is happening here
Speaker 2: because they could also recognize that it would be very
Speaker 2: easily used against them on a whole host of other
Speaker 2: issues that they care about. Now, if you care about
Speaker 2: this the most and trying to crack down on it
Speaker 2: this at the time, but then you just have to
Speaker 2: admit that you're really not for principles. And that's the
Speaker 2: issue is we watched this happen with Russia. Remember at
Speaker 2: that you know, in the invasion of Ukraine, we had
Speaker 2: what the Russian tennis players that weren't allowed at Wimbledon,
Speaker 2: we had like the banning of Russia. You know, there's
Speaker 2: actually a restaurant near where I live which is a
Speaker 2: Russian Uzbek cuisine. They took the word Russian off their side.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 2: You know here in Washington there was a famous restaurant
Speaker 2: Russia House, where I think either it took its signed
Speaker 2: down or something like that, which used to you know
Speaker 2: again serve Russian food and drinks and all those things,
Speaker 2: And now I don't believe, you know, advertises because they
Speaker 2: were facing vandalism. This level of insan reminds me very
Speaker 2: much of like the post nine to eleven period and
Speaker 2: exactly what do we all look back on freedom Fries
Speaker 2: as fucking stupid? Like, let's all be on really, I
Speaker 2: cannot believe that this country ever backed the freedom Fries thing.
Speaker 1: And that was the least of it. Think of the
Speaker 1: national security state. Think of the Patriot Act. Think of
Speaker 1: the surveillance of citizens that was justified by you know,
Speaker 1: the horrific acts terror attacks of nine to eleven. Think
Speaker 1: of what that allowed, the power that that allowed politicians
Speaker 1: to grab in the name of national security. Think of
Speaker 1: the way that the FBI was used to rather than
Speaker 1: actually fighting crime, and keeping people safe, to entrap young
Speaker 1: muslim Men so that they could have some big press
Speaker 1: conference and some big steam of disrupting staying and disrupt
Speaker 1: a terrorist attack that was never going to happen if
Speaker 1: they weren't like radicalizing people and buying them, buying them
Speaker 1: guns and give the money and convincing them that they
Speaker 1: should conduct a terror attack. So do not underestimate the
Speaker 1: insanity that can come with this type of justifiable upset
Speaker 1: and emotion and desire for people to stay safe. And
Speaker 1: we are seeing it spread like wildfire around the globe.
Speaker 2: Just look, don't get caught up in the hysteria, you know.
Speaker 2: And then, just the short amount of time you and
Speaker 2: I have been doing the show, just this show Breaking Points,
Speaker 2: We've lived through three major conflicts Afghanistan, Ukraine and now
Speaker 2: Israel and Hamas, and we see a consistent period every time.
Speaker 2: Both of our beliefs are very much rooted in the
Speaker 2: insanity of the post nine to eleven world, and anything
Speaker 2: that reminds me of that, I start to get very
Speaker 2: very skeptical. I think it will generally serve you well
Speaker 2: to keep that skepticism, especially when we're in the heat
Speaker 2: of things and six months or seven months before you
Speaker 2: can look back our six seven months later, you can
Speaker 2: look back and be like, yeah, that was pretty silly.
Speaker 2: So just try and avoid being that person.
Speaker 3: To the next one.
Speaker 2: This is a really fun discourse that has erupted that
Speaker 2: I've watched, absolutely rip the right apart.
Speaker 3: Where do we oppose canceler culture at.
Speaker 2: All times or not especially whenever it comes to college students, Krystal,
Speaker 2: I thought you and I had for a fun discussion
Speaker 2: about this.
Speaker 3: People can go watch it.
Speaker 2: It was a post on our channel on Friday, and
Speaker 2: a war has broken out by two conservative commentators. Let's
Speaker 2: go and put this up there on the screen. First
Speaker 2: was from Megan Kelly. She was actually responding to something
Speaker 2: from a Vake Ramaswami, which will show you, but she
Speaker 2: effectively is saying, quote that it is unable to persuade
Speaker 2: college students that quote murdering babies is wrong. There's no
Speaker 2: persuading them. We don't hire those who do the killing,
Speaker 2: and we don't hire those who applaud killers while the
Speaker 2: savagery is underway, if you are open to hiring one
Speaker 2: of those lunatics, though, good to know. This actually was
Speaker 2: responded to by Candice Owens. So let's put this up
Speaker 2: there on the screen. This is an important corollary to
Speaker 2: her discourse. She says, Oh, stop it. This is incredible disingenuous, Megan.
Speaker 2: You know that many of those students are not out
Speaker 2: there because they want babies to be murdered.
Speaker 3: College kids are stupid. I used to be radically pro choice.
Speaker 2: I'm glad I didn't get put on a conservative black
Speaker 2: pavist for wanting babies murdered. As it turned out, I
Speaker 2: was just young and temporarily brainwashed from a public school
Speaker 2: education coupled with mainstream Hollywood lies, and not because I
Speaker 2: legitimately wanted to see inference torn from their mother's wombs.
Speaker 2: Doctor Thomas Sole used to be a radical socialist who
Speaker 2: ardently supported communism. Thankfully he wasn't put on a conservative blacklist,
Speaker 2: and he was accused of being a person who wanted
Speaker 2: worldwide suffering and starvation as socialism and communism bring. Students
Speaker 2: are young and experimenting. You're an adult woman who's advocating
Speaker 2: for their lives to be permanently pigeonholed because they have
Speaker 2: the wrong ideas, which they are likely being spoon fed
Speaker 2: in the classroom, and you know, I got to say.
Speaker 3: I actually thought it.
Speaker 2: Was an important kind of addendum to all of the
Speaker 2: discourse around this, because I have watched people who I
Speaker 2: think correctly have decried all of these efforts in the past,
Speaker 2: absolutely sign on to this one now. I did, you know,
Speaker 2: I made a comment previously about like trying to distinguished
Speaker 2: between undergrad and law student, but especially with the undergraduate.
Speaker 2: I think Megan is encompassing within that. I just you know,
Speaker 2: absolutely oppose like anybody undergraduate who's involved in this. As
Speaker 2: Candace said, people do and say a lot of stupid things,
Speaker 2: you know, when they are young.
Speaker 3: That doesn't mean.
Speaker 2: They don't deserve to be employed, you know, later on
Speaker 2: and follow this for them for the rest of their life.
Speaker 2: And as Candace correctly says, people change their minds all
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 3: In fact, this will probably be a learning learning thing.
Speaker 2: They're like, hey, I probably shouldn't just you know, co
Speaker 2: sign whatever somebody puts in front of me for quote
Speaker 2: unquote solidarity purposes. I should think for myself, that can
Speaker 2: be a good lesson without having to then endure permanent
Speaker 2: you know, professional blacklist.
Speaker 1: Crews yah from some of the most powerful people in
Speaker 1: the country, CEOs billionaires, conservative commentators, et cetera. Definitely, Just
Speaker 1: so everyone's clear what we're talking about here, Can you
Speaker 1: guys put D seven up on the screen the part
Speaker 1: of this Harvard statement, because the when Meghan characterizes it,
Speaker 1: it sounds like they were like, we want babies to
Speaker 1: be murdered. The part that people objected to from the
Speaker 1: Harvard student statement, which is there under the Instagram label
Speaker 1: they're on the right. They say, we, the undersigned student organization,
Speaker 1: hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence.
Speaker 1: As I said before. To me, that's insane, Like I
Speaker 1: am perfectly comfortable criticizing the Israelis as I do their government,
Speaker 1: the apartheid regime, the blockade, the war crimes. You can
Speaker 1: do all of that and also say, you know what,
Speaker 1: the terrorists in Hamas who massacred Israeli innocent civilians at
Speaker 1: a music festival are also to blame.
Speaker 4: They do share blame for the unfolding violence.
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's my issue, but that's what they said,
Speaker 1: they hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding months.
Speaker 1: Look at this tear sheet in the New York Times
Speaker 1: on the other side from opinion columnist Brett Stevens. Hamas
Speaker 1: bears the blame for every death in this war. It's
Speaker 1: the exact same logic what the Israeli government which is
Speaker 1: decided to conduct this complete siege and deny all of
Speaker 1: the innocent civilians within Gaza, water electricity, food, force a
Speaker 1: million of them to evacuate in a humanitarian crisis, bomb
Speaker 1: civilian infrastrure. They don't bear any blame for that, They
Speaker 1: have no culpability. So that's allowed to be published in
Speaker 1: the New York Times with zero controversy response, no problem whatsoever.
Speaker 4: Harvard student groups.
Speaker 1: Use the very same, completely flawed logic, and there is
Speaker 1: an absolute vendetta out for these young people's heads of
Speaker 1: we want you ducks, we want you blacklisted. We're funding
Speaker 1: a truck to put your faces on it and say
Speaker 1: you're anti Semites, to drive around the town. We want
Speaker 1: you named and shamed and to be drummed out of
Speaker 1: polite society forever. How do we feel about this conflict?
Speaker 1: We need to have some space for grace and learning
Speaker 1: and evolution and growth in this country. And that is
Speaker 1: why I have always been opposed to this sort of approach.
Speaker 1: Whether it's an issue I happen to have more sympathy for,
Speaker 1: or if it's one I vehemently oppose because this is
Speaker 1: a nightmarish direction to go in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and let's give credit where due. All of this
Speaker 2: was sparked by Vivek Ramaswami, presidential candidate. Let's put this
Speaker 2: up there on the screen. He put out this statement quote,
Speaker 2: the Harvard students who co sign the anti Israel letter
Speaker 2: are simple fools. But it is not productive for companies
Speaker 2: to blacklist kids for being members of student groups that
Speaker 2: make dumb political statements on campus. Colleges are spaces for
Speaker 2: students to experiment with ideas, and sometimes kids join clubs
Speaker 2: that endorse boneheadedly wrong ideas. I have been as vocal
Speaker 2: as anyone in creditizing left wing cancel culture. But it
Speaker 2: is bad no matter who practices it. It wasn't great
Speaker 2: when people were wearing Trump hats were fired from work,
Speaker 2: and it wasn't great when college graduates couldn't get hired
Speaker 2: unless they have signed oppressive DEI pledges. It's not great
Speaker 2: now if companies refuse to hire kids who are part
Speaker 2: of student groups that once adopted the wrong views on Israel.
Speaker 2: This is not a legal point, it's a cultural point.
Speaker 2: I say, this is someone who vihently disagrees with those
Speaker 2: student groups. Those calling for blacklisting students right now are
Speaker 2: responding from a place of understandable hurt. But I am
Speaker 2: confident that in the fullness of time they will agree
Speaker 2: with me on the wisdom of avoiding these cancel culture tactics.
Speaker 2: And this also, as I said, is splintering much of
Speaker 2: the institutional right. Here's a good example here that we
Speaker 2: can put on the screen. Ben Dominic the husband of
Speaker 2: Megan McCain and a prominent conservative commentator here in Washington.
Speaker 2: He says, quote, if Charlie Kirk remains the head of TPUSA,
Speaker 2: the right has an anti Semite problem that will follow
Speaker 2: them into coming elections. The real beef by Ben was
Speaker 2: Charlie bringing up Israeli intelligence failures and saying that he
Speaker 2: didn't want to wait until later and wanted to dwell
Speaker 2: on it right now. Charlie, for example, is having to
Speaker 2: fight back against this. Let's put this up there on
Speaker 2: the screen. He put out of this long tweet statement.
Speaker 2: For the last four years, I've been accused of being
Speaker 2: a Jewish shill sponsor three hundred people year to visit Israel,
Speaker 2: et cetera. We kicked out a Jew hater at an
Speaker 2: event we have successfully thwart at BDS campaigns.
Speaker 3: This type of libel is poison.
Speaker 2: You know nothing of what you speak except a two
Speaker 2: minute clip where I ask questions about the intelligence failures
Speaker 2: of the Israeli government which were reported by Axios and others.
Speaker 2: If stuff like this continues, Israel will lose support from
Speaker 2: a major faction of voices on the right support Israel,
Speaker 2: and you get called a Jew hater. This is a
Speaker 2: repugnant lie from the pit of hell. You should be ashamed.
Speaker 2: I think it just demonstrates once again the level of
Speaker 2: vitriol you know on the issue, and already seeing a
Speaker 2: splinter not only you know, much of the left, but
Speaker 2: also on the right. You know, in terms of trying
Speaker 2: to prove your bona fides about who is more pro
Speaker 2: Israel or not. None of this ends up standing in
Speaker 2: the long run, you know, in the long run, none
Speaker 2: of this ends up looking particularly good. So I did
Speaker 2: appreciate the comments by Candae and by Vivek, and also
Speaker 2: I do think at tracks to a foreign policy commitment.
Speaker 2: We didn't end up putting this into the show, but
Speaker 2: there was a big, you know, divine between you know,
Speaker 2: Ben Shapiro and Candace on this. Candace is like, I
Speaker 2: think America should only care about our borders and not
Speaker 2: get involved in the rest of the world, whereas Shapiro
Speaker 2: eviscerated you know, Tucker Carlson for effectively saying the same thing.
Speaker 2: He's like, well, we should care more about our border
Speaker 2: than we do about other countries. It's a very common sentiment,
Speaker 2: I think, and that itself will also further split apart
Speaker 2: the right should war come on the table, because the
Speaker 2: main criticism right now of Biden, if anything, from the
Speaker 2: institutional right is that he's not pro Israel enough and
Speaker 2: not willing enough to bomb Iran or get involved in
Speaker 2: a conflict. So this is the same ideological fissure I
Speaker 2: think that exists on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's nice to see that there are
Speaker 1: a few people who are trying to remain consistent with
Speaker 1: some sort of principle, because it's rare that you see that.
Speaker 1: You know, oftentimes people when it's their side that's being canceled,
Speaker 1: they care a lot. When it's something they disagree with,
Speaker 1: suddenly they're really silent. And this issue in particularn't Israel bad?
Speaker 1: This has always been like the main area of silence
Speaker 1: on the right when it comes to cancel culture, because
Speaker 1: this is an insistent thing that comes up, as I said,
Speaker 1: even when you're not in incredibly heightened moments. So you know,
Speaker 1: as much as there was and continues to be a
Speaker 1: lot of censorship around views on the Russia Ukraine situation,
Speaker 1: certain things you're really not allowed to say. You'd be
Speaker 1: branded as the Putin puppet, and Cumlin a poll of
Speaker 1: this sort of stuff, it really is magnified and amplified
Speaker 1: on this issue where there are so many deep personal
Speaker 1: connections and ties and just a lot of very very
Speaker 1: fraught and understandable, frankly emotions here as well.
Speaker 2: Yes, you're right, and it also highlights the height of
Speaker 2: emotions and the real reckoning that's happening inside of Israel.
Speaker 2: Let's get to this because this is a story that
Speaker 2: is not being properly reported by the American press. There
Speaker 2: is far more descent, vitriol and debate inside that country
Speaker 2: than there is in this country, which remains shocking to me.
Speaker 2: And just to show you from the Jerusalem Post, which
Speaker 2: is a right wing publication by the way inside of Israel.
Speaker 2: Put this up there on the screen. Eighty six percent
Speaker 2: of respondents in the Jerusalem Post poll, including seventy nine
Speaker 2: percent of the Coalition government supporters, said that the attack
Speaker 2: from Gaza is a failure of the country's leadership.
Speaker 3: Quote.
Speaker 2: A staggering ninety two percent said that the war is
Speaker 2: causing anxiety. And furthermore, all the respondents ninety four percent
Speaker 2: believe the government must bear some responsibility for the lack
Speaker 2: of security preparedness that led to the assault, over seventy
Speaker 2: five percent saying the government holds most of the responsibilities.
Speaker 1: That was the thing Charlie Kirk was trying to take
Speaker 1: exact us to be and.
Speaker 2: The rest of it, as can you put it back
Speaker 2: up there on the screen, please, just because I want
Speaker 2: people to be able to see that as I read,
Speaker 2: Netanyahu must resign, most Israelis say. New survey from six
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty Israelis from across the country found that
Speaker 2: the majority of respondents believed he should resign following the
Speaker 2: conclusion of the next operation quote a slim majority fifty
Speaker 2: six percent, but still twenty eight percent of Coalition view
Speaker 2: voters agreed, and fifty two percent said that the Defense
Speaker 2: Minister himself must also resign.
Speaker 3: That highlights just the.
Speaker 2: Immense amount of anger inside the country against the security
Speaker 2: establishment for which they have given up their children. They
Speaker 2: have given up years of their life in the IDF,
Speaker 2: They've given up all civil liberties that they ever had,
Speaker 2: or even had a pretense of. They gave up so
Speaker 2: much for the promise of being kept safe, which is
Speaker 2: what bebe ran on over and over and over again,
Speaker 2: and people have taken to the streets. Here is one
Speaker 2: example of a foreign correspondent from ABC News in the
Speaker 2: midst of one of these protests.
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.
Speaker 21: I think the concern is that if there is a
Speaker 21: significant ground incursion into Gaza, film that they're going to
Speaker 21: lose those hostages. Hamas has honeycombed all of Gaza with
Speaker 21: these tunnels. That's where they keep the militants, That's where
Speaker 21: they keep the rockets in their weapons. That's where it's
Speaker 21: believed they are keeping all.
Speaker 3: Of the hostages.
Speaker 21: They are the most valuable commodity in all of Gaza
Speaker 21: right now.
Speaker 3: And I want to see what's going on here.
Speaker 21: There appears to be a protest breaking out, some.
Speaker 3: Anger with police.
Speaker 21: Looks like they're taking over the road. I'm not exactly sure,
Speaker 21: but the anger here is that not enough is being
Speaker 21: done about the hostages, and Israel seems to be willing
Speaker 21: to fight in Gaza but not bring these people home.
Speaker 21: And basically, to a person here, we've been told that
Speaker 21: everybody is willing to give up the ten eleven thousand
Speaker 21: Palestinian prisoners being held in Israel in exchange for the
Speaker 21: one hundred and fifty or so, and that includes the Americans.
Speaker 21: Of course, we're trying to figure out what's going on,
Speaker 21: but tensions have been.
Speaker 3: High all afternoon.
Speaker 21: At one point protesters here tried to block the entrance
Speaker 21: and there's a truck that kind of nudged up against them.
Speaker 21: Now they've taken over the street.
Speaker 3: Right now, there you go.
Speaker 2: I mean, you could see that was literally in the
Speaker 2: streets of Tel Aviv. And what he's pointing out is
Speaker 2: that there's a lot of concern in Israel about the hostages.
Speaker 2: This is something I highlighted last time around. But it's
Speaker 2: important to remember the Israeli population was very supportive of
Speaker 2: Bibie whenever he traded almost i believe Hamas or Palestinian
Speaker 2: prisoners for a single Israeli soldier, and it was because
Speaker 2: people there all have a direct connection. They see themselves
Speaker 2: and their children in the eyes of the kids who
Speaker 2: in many cases you know, do not even necessarily want
Speaker 2: to serve in the military, who do end up there.
Speaker 2: And then the last thing, you know, we debated putting
Speaker 2: this into our show, but just to explain before we
Speaker 2: play it is we don't want to say that this
Speaker 2: is all of Israeli sentiment, but again we want to
Speaker 2: play a voice of an Israeli American who has a
Speaker 2: very different view of how the government should respond to
Speaker 2: this conflict, just to show you not everybody inside of
Speaker 2: Israel is, you know, clamoring for blood in Gaza. This
Speaker 2: was during an interview with CNN, and keeping in mind
Speaker 2: this is a person who lost a member of his
Speaker 2: family actually in the attack from Hamas.
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.
Speaker 20: What I wanted to say is the most important for me,
Speaker 20: and I think also for my brother was that his
Speaker 20: death won't be used to kill innocent people. And sadly,
Speaker 20: my government are my government is using cynically the best
Speaker 20: of people to just kill like they promised us it
Speaker 20: was going to bring. It's going to bring us like security,
Speaker 20: But of course it's not security because they always tell us,
Speaker 20: oh that if we're going to kill n F Palestinians
Speaker 20: or they're gonna so it's going to be better for us.
Speaker 20: But of course it never brings us peace and it
Speaker 20: never brings us better lives. It just brings more and
Speaker 20: more terror and more and more people killed like my brother,
Speaker 20: and I don't want anything to happen to people, and
Speaker 20: guys are like it happens the way brother, and I'm
Speaker 20: sure he wouldn't have any either. So that's my call
Speaker 20: to my government to stop killing instant people and that's
Speaker 20: not the way that brings us peace and security tool
Speaker 20: people in israelm that's a very.
Speaker 2: Courageous statement by somebody who just lost their brother in
Speaker 2: a terrible terrorist attack. And yeah, again, look there are
Speaker 2: also a lot of people whose relatives were killed who
Speaker 2: are like, wipe them off the face of the earth,
Speaker 2: let's kill them all. So we're not pretending that's the
Speaker 2: majority sentiment, but I do think it's important for people
Speaker 2: to understand, you know, Israel is a country just like
Speaker 2: anybody else, with a lot of different people, and they're
Speaker 2: having a lot of descent and a lot of debate
Speaker 2: over there. No, overwhelmingly they agree both that something needs
Speaker 2: to be done and that the government is to blame.
Speaker 2: So let's follow their lead and actually talk about it
Speaker 2: in a nuanced way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Yahoo.
Speaker 1: In the wake of these attacks, where as you can
Speaker 1: see from these numbers, he is overwhelmingly being blamed for
Speaker 1: the failure of the.
Speaker 4: Response and anticipation.
Speaker 1: We now know that he was directly warned at least
Speaker 1: by Egyptian intelligence, also appears by US intelligence. Also to
Speaker 1: appears his own intelligence services picked up some signs Hamas
Speaker 1: was out there doing wargames, and they're like, I think
Speaker 1: this is fine. It had been his strategy, his stated
Speaker 1: strategy over years to sort of prop up Hamas as
Speaker 1: a way of foiling any efforts at establishing an actual
Speaker 1: Palestinian state. He found them to be a useful adversary.
Speaker 1: So in the wake of all of this, with Ra
Speaker 1: among so many of the citizens of Israel, we played
Speaker 1: for you, you know, one of the cabinet ministers getting screamed
Speaker 1: at and kicked out of a hospital by the people
Speaker 1: there who were absolutely irate. Nanya, who has been really
Speaker 1: pretty silent, not taking questions from press because he doesn't
Speaker 1: want to have to face any of these very difficult questions.
Speaker 1: Doing very little and saying very little about the families
Speaker 1: who have loved ones who are being held hostage right now,
Speaker 1: certainly seems to be no openness to that sort of
Speaker 1: negotiation to try to bring those hostages home safely. Now, again,
Speaker 1: it is the fault of AMAS that they are holding
Speaker 1: these hostages.
Speaker 4: They should release them.
Speaker 1: It is barbaric and it is inhumane, and it is
Speaker 1: insane that they are doing so.
Speaker 4: But the Israeli people see that the.
Speaker 1: Government is not doing anything to really try to bring
Speaker 1: their loved ones home, very emotional issue, and as I said,
Speaker 1: you know, apparently they've looked more to Joe Biden for
Speaker 1: leadership in the wake of these attacks than they have
Speaker 1: their own Prime minister.
Speaker 4: Biden giving that big.
Speaker 1: Speech, it was watched by a huge proportion of the
Speaker 1: Israeli public. Natanyahuo doing nothing similar and as I said,
Speaker 1: not making himself available to the press for any sort
Speaker 1: of questioning on these failures. So you know, there is
Speaker 1: a real there are peers from the outside. We're not there,
Speaker 1: so we can only say what we're seeing from these
Speaker 1: opinion polls and from the media. Eclips and coverage. But
Speaker 1: there appears to be a real rally around the flag,
Speaker 1: as you would expect, but also a sort of unity
Speaker 1: in opposition of Netanyahu in the direction that he has
Speaker 1: taken the Israeli government in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that, and that's important because we didn't
Speaker 2: have that after nine to eleven, and it led to
Speaker 2: a lot of massive mistakes. We you're both rallied around
Speaker 2: the flag and then the guy we elect present and
Speaker 2: we didn't end up questioning that for a long time,
Speaker 2: and by that time there were hundreds of thousands of
Speaker 2: people who were dead, including many US soldiers. So I
Speaker 2: would just hope and I would pray that many people
Speaker 2: inside Israel don't make the same mistake that we did.
Speaker 2: You can rally around your flag and you could protect
Speaker 2: our news while also recognizing that your politicians are not
Speaker 2: always the same people behind that flag.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's move on to some media coverage here,
Speaker 1: because this is an important piece of the story of censorship,
Speaker 1: of the way that this conflict is portrayed, of who
Speaker 1: is granted humanity in this conflict and who is not.
Speaker 1: Put this up on the screen. This was a bombshell
Speaker 1: report from Semaphore. The headline here from Max Tanny is
Speaker 1: inside MSNBC's Middle East conflict. He reports that MSNBC has
Speaker 1: quietly taken three of its Muslim broadcasters out of the
Speaker 1: anchors chair since Hamas's attack on Israel last Saturday, among
Speaker 1: amid America's wave of sympathy for Israeli terror victims. The
Speaker 1: specifics here, which I'm going to tell you, MSNBC vehemently disputes,
Speaker 1: but I think it's pretty hard to deny when you
Speaker 1: see Ali Velshi, Mehdi Hassan and Amon Moyaltein all taken
Speaker 1: out of their normal anchor chair slots, pretty undeniable. There
Speaker 1: is something going on here. So they didn't air a
Speaker 1: scheduled Thursday night episode of the Medi Hassan show on Peacock.
Speaker 1: They reversed a plan for Aiman to fill in on
Speaker 1: the network for host Joy Reads seven pm primetime show
Speaker 1: on Thursday and Friday. They say, loyalty and Egyptian American
Speaker 1: journalists and veteran NBC News correspondent covered the conflict from
Speaker 1: Gaza for two years. Wouldn't she think that the guy
Speaker 1: who was in Gaza for two years covering this conflict
Speaker 1: might have something to add to your coverage, one might
Speaker 1: think so.
Speaker 4: In twenty twenty one, they point out.
Speaker 1: He aggressively question is Raley leaders on strikes in the territory.
Speaker 1: Two network sources with knowledge of the plans told Semaphore
Speaker 1: the network also plans to have Alisia Menendez, Bob andn Ededez'
Speaker 1: daughter fill in this upcoming weekend for ali Velshi, a
Speaker 1: third Muslim American host who on Sunday interview to spokesman
Speaker 1: for the Palestinian authority. So all three of those sidelined
Speaker 1: from their normal anchor chair slots. No, let me tell
Speaker 1: you their side. Ali Velshi has actually been on the
Speaker 1: ground Israel reporting. He is now back in the US,
Speaker 1: but rather than being put in his normal time slot
Speaker 1: on his own, he was co hosting with Alex Witt. Now,
Speaker 1: if you've worked in this industry, you know that there
Speaker 1: is a big difference between being a guest and being
Speaker 1: a co host and having your own show that you
Speaker 1: get to pick the guests, the line of questioning, the
Speaker 1: way stories are framed, the elements that are drawn from,
Speaker 1: very big difference. So they also say, you know aim
Speaker 1: In and Maddie, they've been on the network as guests, etc.
Speaker 4: Etc.
Speaker 1: Very different from being a host of your own program.
Speaker 1: In addition, outside of sidelining three of the individuals who
Speaker 1: have the most in depth knowledge, by the way, also
Speaker 1: of this conflict and the history and all of that.
Speaker 1: There's also been a lot of internal uproar that they
Speaker 1: reported on.
Speaker 4: In this piece as well.
Speaker 1: So there was an event that was created to quote
Speaker 1: here updates about the situation in Israel and a place
Speaker 1: to share family and friends stories from on the ground.
Speaker 1: Noting that there would be a rabbi in attendance, One
Speaker 1: of the producers for Ali Velci's show asked in this
Speaker 1: internal communication, why is there no Palestinian representation? The response
Speaker 1: from the organizer, which tagged NBC's HR director, So, going
Speaker 1: to the HR director, this is not about Palestinians and
Speaker 1: Jesus raleies. This is about terrorists and Jesus rallies. Anyone
Speaker 1: entering this group needs to denounce terror and what happened
Speaker 1: on Saturday. Claims of freedom fighting, rationalizations, really anything not
Speaker 1: explicitly and unequivocally about being supportive during this difficult time.
Speaker 4: These do not belong here.
Speaker 1: And Velshi's producer said that that same employee sent him
Speaker 1: a private message including some quote incredibly offensive boy things.
Speaker 1: So it is getting ugly over there at MSNBC.
Speaker 2: Ah, yeah, I mean they I just think it's so
Speaker 2: funny to watch because all of this is things that
Speaker 2: they accuse others of doing. All of this demonstrates their
Speaker 2: one sided nature. But more so, it just shows you
Speaker 2: who they really take their orders from, and that's the ADL.
Speaker 2: How can we forget that the ADL president appeared on
Speaker 2: their network, looked straight into the camera and gave them orders,
Speaker 2: and then they followed those orders only hours afterwards. Well,
Speaker 2: relive that from last week. Let's take a listen.
Speaker 22: I must say, I love this show and I love
Speaker 22: this network, but I've got to ask who is writing
Speaker 22: the scripts Hamas the people who did this. They are
Speaker 22: not fighters, Jonathan, they are not militants, and I'm looking
Speaker 22: right at the camera. They are terrorists. So I just think, like, guys,
Speaker 22: get this story right, and all these pictures of like
Speaker 22: you know, missiles or the rubble in Gaza, please talk
Speaker 22: to the Israeli mothers and fathers who lost their children,
Speaker 22: talked to the grandchildren whose grandparents were seized as hostages,
Speaker 22: and please stop up calling this a retaliation.
Speaker 2: Wow, So guys, get the story right, who's writing the scripts.
Speaker 2: Those are all vary, by the way, very intentionally, I
Speaker 2: think used words, and considering now the fallout from that,
Speaker 2: it does show you that they are absolutely listening to
Speaker 2: the ADL in terms of that criticism.
Speaker 3: We had talked.
Speaker 2: I remember after that and I was like, I was like,
Speaker 2: I said, I think to you, I said, I think
Speaker 2: they're going to take them off the airs.
Speaker 3: Oh and so there's no way.
Speaker 4: Felt very confident that they would be, and they did.
Speaker 2: What's really crazy is how quickly that they did it.
Speaker 2: As you laid out, I mean to reschedule people, keep
Speaker 2: them all up in the air. We don't know what's
Speaker 2: going to happen. And with all of that, that's a
Speaker 2: very clear sign. It also just shows you even when
Speaker 2: they come back, you think they're going to say the
Speaker 2: same thing. You think they're going to say what they
Speaker 2: think these people, and look on a personal level, I
Speaker 2: get these people, they love kids, you know all that.
Speaker 2: By the way, I can't even stand Mehdihas. I really
Speaker 2: despise him that said I will speak up for him.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's right, you know, for somebody to
Speaker 2: be taken off for their views on something like this,
Speaker 2: and I especially think it's egregious for them to do
Speaker 2: so at the behest of a direct lobbying organization and
Speaker 2: not actually even attempt to try and try and tell
Speaker 2: a fulsome story.
Speaker 3: Something that even CNN has been able to do in
Speaker 3: this conflict.
Speaker 1: I have disagreements with Mehdi has On. He's one of
Speaker 1: the few anchors on MSNBC that ever actually challenges Democrats
Speaker 1: and has shown more courage on certain issues than virtually
Speaker 1: any other host there. But you know the other there's
Speaker 1: there's so many things here. I mean, we last week
Speaker 1: after that ADL dude said what he said, We played
Speaker 1: for you the commentary that sparked those comments, and it
Speaker 1: was none of it was like Hama's talking point.
Speaker 3: It was not beyond the pailout.
Speaker 4: Not at all.
Speaker 1: No one was saying it's really civilians deserve to die
Speaker 1: and this is what they get and they're freedom fighters
Speaker 1: and I justify this, you.
Speaker 4: Know, murdering Abate.
Speaker 1: No one was saying that. You had Mehdi who was
Speaker 1: talking about Listen, you got two point two million people
Speaker 1: in Gaza nearer majority of them are children, helping people
Speaker 1: understand the reality of what's going on. Here, and it
Speaker 1: drives you every time I hear that, because he says
Speaker 1: the ADL guy, he says, go out and interview the
Speaker 1: mothers who lost their children, and MSBC has done that,
Speaker 1: but he does not want the Palestinian mothers interviewed. He
Speaker 1: does not want the images of rubble. He wants them
Speaker 1: to quote, get the story right. And at a network
Speaker 1: that really talks a big game about diversity, suddenly they're
Speaker 1: pushing are there any other Muslim men who are anchors
Speaker 1: at that network? Or have they sidelined literally all of
Speaker 1: them at this point.
Speaker 2: At this point, their best bet is to just play
Speaker 2: identity politics and being like you're silencing people of colors void,
Speaker 2: which why do we have to phrase it that way too?
Speaker 3: I actually the.
Speaker 1: Fact that they have backgrounds in the region I was
Speaker 1: knowledge of and reporting on the ground in the region.
Speaker 4: That's a valuable asset.
Speaker 3: That's my Yeah.
Speaker 2: For me, It's like I don't care whether Amon is
Speaker 2: a Muslim or not. I care that he spent some
Speaker 2: time in Gaza, so I'm like, Okay, I want to
Speaker 2: hear what he has to say.
Speaker 3: I don't know that many people have been to Gaza.
Speaker 2: It's really hard to get to, especially for a man
Speaker 2: American citizens who are journalists. I believe he's Egyptian, so
Speaker 2: he has some background that he can give some there
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 3: That's great.
Speaker 2: That's what I want to hear from. I want to
Speaker 2: hear from people, anybody who has spent significant time there.
Speaker 2: That's really what the disservice is, as opposed to what
Speaker 2: somebody is in New York who's never even been to
Speaker 2: the region. I mean, how can you possibly give context?
Speaker 2: I mean, I rely on a lot of my experience
Speaker 2: in the Middle East and even in Israel as well,
Speaker 2: just to try and inform some of the commentary that
Speaker 2: I bring here. I like to think that it's helpful
Speaker 2: for people. And yeah, I just can't imagine you being
Speaker 2: taken off from that in lieu of whatever the political
Speaker 2: preferences are.
Speaker 3: Have said bosses, but that's why we don't have bosses.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, they're doing special primetime coverage at the network.
Speaker 1: Have these guys been included, right, people who have actually
Speaker 1: Amon spent two years on the ground of Gaza. Has
Speaker 1: he been included? You think his thoughts might be useful
Speaker 1: for people to hear and understand what life is like there. No,
Speaker 1: he has been excluded from that coverage. So it is
Speaker 1: very interesting to watch in real time the way that
Speaker 1: these stories are shaped and how, you know, anyone that
Speaker 1: might have a dissident view or something else that they
Speaker 1: could bring to the table. They're not you know, they're
Speaker 1: not fired, they're not completely censored.
Speaker 4: They're still allowed to be a guest.
Speaker 1: But they're going to be they're going to be rained in,
Speaker 1: they're going to be managed, they're going to make sure
Speaker 1: that they can stay in their lane.
Speaker 4: And we have another perfect.
Speaker 1: Example of the way that the media covers this conflict.
Speaker 4: This is this is really, this was wild. Put this
Speaker 4: up on the screen. Reuter's.
Speaker 1: A Reuter's video journalist was killed and six other journalists
Speaker 1: were also injured in an Israeli strike.
Speaker 4: In southern Lebanon.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you could say, look, technically, maybe
Speaker 1: it came, but they they're headline here isn't Reutter's journal
Speaker 1: is killed by and is really strike killed in Lebanon
Speaker 1: in missile fire from the direction of Israel. Okay, from
Speaker 1: the direction of Israel. Their own person was killed and
Speaker 1: they can't even say how or why. Now imagine that
Speaker 1: it was a Hamas rocket that killed this Reuter's journalists, You.
Speaker 4: Think they have any qualms?
Speaker 1: You think they need to launch a nine month investigation
Speaker 1: to figure out what happened and be able to tell
Speaker 1: the public how and why their own journalist was killed.
Speaker 1: Do you think they would have any problems with that?
Speaker 2: Of course, Look, nobody thinks that they wanted to do it.
Speaker 2: They didn't intentionally do it. It's a war zone, and
Speaker 2: it's terrible that had happened. It was fired by Israels
Speaker 2: to be like, yeah, the Israeli's fired a rocket and
Speaker 2: a killed one of our journalists. We condemned this, and
Speaker 2: we urge the military to be more careful with indiscriminate rockets.
Speaker 3: They're being fired into Southern lovet. Why is this difficult?
Speaker 3: You know, it's not difficult.
Speaker 2: You don't have to just sit there and soothe everybody's feelings.
Speaker 2: But most likely they did it, Crystal, because they don't
Speaker 2: want get kicked out of Israel.
Speaker 3: You know, they don't want.
Speaker 2: The Israeli government to retaliate against the Reuter's journalists. And yeah, like,
Speaker 2: as you said, either the direction of it from the
Speaker 2: direction like you just say it it's fine, it really is.
Speaker 3: You know, people will be like, yeah, stuff happens in
Speaker 3: the middle of a war. It's terrible. That's why it's awful.
Speaker 2: Whenever any journal was killed in any conflict zone, and
Speaker 2: it is a day. It is a job oftentimes that
Speaker 2: is fraught with risk, as we've had journalists who have
Speaker 2: been killed in Ukraine, We've had journalists killed before, you know,
Speaker 2: in Iraq and many.
Speaker 3: Of these other types of places.
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to morally equivocate, it's just being honest
Speaker 2: and straight up with people is the only and the
Speaker 2: best way I think to operate with this, and it
Speaker 2: does a disservice. And also can you imagine being the
Speaker 2: family and the guy who was killed, right, you know,
Speaker 2: you can't even say something like that, but these are
Speaker 2: people who employed you, and you were you were you know,
Speaker 2: you died whenever you were just trying to do your
Speaker 2: job pointing a camera. I'm sure you knew, you know,
Speaker 2: a little bit of what you were getting into. You
Speaker 2: didn't think you were gonna die. So I just think
Speaker 2: it's awful you know that this happened, and that they
Speaker 2: just try and downplay it like this. So look, we're
Speaker 2: trying our best here as well. And I like to
Speaker 2: think that you know, we genuinely are trying to provide
Speaker 2: a relatively like or at least like a zoomed out
Speaker 2: view of a conflict through which people who are new
Speaker 2: to this can try and wrap their heads around all
Speaker 2: the complex nature and the unfortunate thing I think that
Speaker 2: happens in situations like this is they zoom in onto
Speaker 2: a single part and they try to pretend that this
Speaker 2: all just happen. And look, I understand that, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe in the first four hours, but we're a week
Speaker 2: almost into this, and we're on the precipice of a
Speaker 2: major war in the Middle East, and that is when
Speaker 2: I would hope cooler heads try to prevail, although unfortunately
Speaker 2: I don't see a way there, given the way that
Speaker 2: our political establishment is, given the way that Hamas has
Speaker 2: decided to behave, and given the way that the Israeli
Speaker 2: government has decided to behave, and what we always try
Speaker 2: to speak up for here are like innocent people who
Speaker 2: get caught up in these because every conflict, no matter
Speaker 2: if it's just or not, has led to colossal losses
Speaker 2: of life, especially in the modern era, and it's something
Speaker 2: that we have tried as a state to always try
Speaker 2: to move past and fortunately we just keep moving right
Speaker 2: back to where things are, which is why war itself
Speaker 2: is so awful.
Speaker 1: I just deeply fear that we learned nothing from our failed, disastrous, brutal,
Speaker 1: horrific response to nine to eleven.
Speaker 4: It seems like we learned nothing.
Speaker 1: I mean, the same type of rhetoric, the same type
Speaker 1: of you know, unchecked, this desire for revenge with no
Speaker 1: plan for Okay, what comes after the revenge?
Speaker 4: What is next? What is the goal?
Speaker 1: How do we actually achieve peace and security for you know,
Speaker 1: Israelis and for Palestinians. I just that's the piece that
Speaker 1: the demands for censorship, the shaping of the narrative, all
Speaker 1: of these things feel so like such a flashback to
Speaker 1: that time. And so, you know, try to think about
Speaker 1: what we learned from those mistakes, try as best we
Speaker 1: can to apply them to the current situation, which is
Speaker 1: always difficult when you've just watched this absolute monstrous slaughter
Speaker 1: of innocent civilians. So that's, you know, that's what we're
Speaker 1: trying to do here, as best we can, is not
Speaker 1: only bring you exactly what's happening on the ground, but
Speaker 1: also situated in terms of the past, in terms of
Speaker 1: the risks for the future, so you know, we're going
Speaker 1: to continue to cover it as best we can. As
Speaker 1: you guys have seen, we've kind of gotten all in
Speaker 1: on this because I think it is such an important moment,
Speaker 1: potentially really pivotal moment, and so we're going to continue
Speaker 1: to bring you as extensive coverage as we possibly can.
Speaker 1: We also, though, have you know, additional focus groups that
Speaker 1: we can bring to all of you this week. And
Speaker 1: thank you so much again to all of you who
Speaker 1: have enabled all of this work.
Speaker 4: We are incredibly grateful.
Speaker 2: It means a lot to us as us and the crew.
Speaker 2: We're all working over time in order to make sure
Speaker 2: all of this happen. So if we appreciate it very much,
Speaker 2: Breakingpoints dot com, if you're able to support us, we'll
Speaker 2: see you all tomorrow.