Speaker 1: Failure doesn't have to be this life shattering event. You know,
Speaker 1: depression doesn't have to be this life shattering event. You
Speaker 1: can still be happy in moments even if you are
Speaker 1: feeling that depression. It doesn't have to have this hold
Speaker 1: over you. Welcome to the one you feed throughout time.
Speaker 1: Great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have.
Speaker 1: Quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what
Speaker 1: you think ring true. And yet for many of us,
Speaker 1: our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity,
Speaker 1: self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't
Speaker 1: have instead of what we do. We think things that
Speaker 1: hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not
Speaker 1: just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent,
Speaker 1: and creative effort to make a life worth living. This
Speaker 1: podcast is about how other people keep themselves us moving
Speaker 1: in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us. Our guest today is Amy Clover,
Speaker 1: founder of Strong inside out dot com and the driving
Speaker 1: force behind the two thousand fourteen Strong inside Out Tour.
Speaker 1: Eight years ago, she was battling depression and o c D,
Speaker 1: and after a near suicide, checked herself into the hospital.
Speaker 1: Now she helps other people take back the power to
Speaker 1: fight their own demons through fitness and positive action. And
Speaker 1: before we get to the interview, here's a quick message
Speaker 1: from Eric. Hey, everybody, I wanted to let you know.
Speaker 1: Over the last several months, I've gotten requests for whether
Speaker 1: I work individually with people, and up till now, I
Speaker 1: have been saying no to that. But I'm gonna start
Speaker 1: working with a few select people on feeding your good wolf,
Speaker 1: whether that be thing is like behavior change, mindset change,
Speaker 1: or just generating ideas for how to move forward in
Speaker 1: your life. So if that's something you're interested in, dropped
Speaker 1: me a line at Eric at one you feed dot net. Thanks. Hi, Amy,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Hey, thanks so much for having me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm really glad to get you on and and to
Speaker 1: explore some of the things that you've built and some
Speaker 1: of the ideas you've come up with around strong inside out.
Speaker 1: So before we get into that, though, i'd like to,
Speaker 1: as we always do, go through the parable. So there's
Speaker 1: a grandfather who's talking with his grandson in life and
Speaker 1: he says, there are two wolves inside of us that
Speaker 1: are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which
Speaker 1: represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the
Speaker 1: other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed
Speaker 1: and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he
Speaker 1: thinks about it for a second, and he looks up
Speaker 1: at his grandfather and he says, grandfather, which one wins?
Speaker 1: And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd
Speaker 1: like to start off by asking you how that parable
Speaker 1: applies to you in your life and in the work
Speaker 1: that you do. I think it directly resonates with what
Speaker 1: I do. I um over its strong insight out I
Speaker 1: help people overcome struggle, namely depression and anxiety with the
Speaker 1: use of fitness and positive action. So it's all about
Speaker 1: the wolves as far as what I do UM, as
Speaker 1: far as like fitness goes getting healthier. There's the you know,
Speaker 1: the the wolf that that cries for you know, binge
Speaker 1: eating and junk food and and staying still all day long.
Speaker 1: And then there's a good wolf who cries for you know,
Speaker 1: movement and healthy foods, whole foods and all of that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. UM. But as far as depression, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's it's it's almost um literal in that sense with
Speaker 1: the good and the bawd wolves there. But I think
Speaker 1: that the key thing is that a lot of UM
Speaker 1: kind of personal development bloggers, I think UM misjudge is
Speaker 1: that it's not necessarily about starving one wolf and only
Speaker 1: feeding another. It's about paying attention to them both, but
Speaker 1: knowing when to feed each one of them. If that
Speaker 1: makes sense. Yep, there's something there, even in you know,
Speaker 1: the things you describe binge eating or or any uh
Speaker 1: you know over drink or anything saying any of those things,
Speaker 1: there's something that your emotions are trying to tell you. Oh, definitely, definitely,
Speaker 1: And if you starve that wolf, it's gonna be really
Speaker 1: hungry one of these days, and it's going to come
Speaker 1: back to the vengeance. Yep. So maybe you could tell
Speaker 1: listeners a little bit about your about your story to
Speaker 1: what sort of led you to where you are, and
Speaker 1: then from there maybe we can talk a little bit
Speaker 1: more about the methods and approaches you take to helping
Speaker 1: people get healthier again. Yeah. Sure. So when I was
Speaker 1: growing up, I was kind of ruled by bad wolves,
Speaker 1: and UM, I grew up and I was diagnosed in
Speaker 1: high school with clinical depression and obsessive compulsive disorder, which
Speaker 1: is an anxiety disorder UM and I it was already
Speaker 1: made fun of. I was kind of a nerd in school,
Speaker 1: and I just was really shy. I've always been kind
Speaker 1: of awkward, still am proudly now though, UM and I
Speaker 1: just I didn't want to bring any attention to myself,
Speaker 1: so I wouldn't talk about it. I refused to acknowledge
Speaker 1: that it existed. I hid my medications away from people.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to believe that it was true because
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be so different UM with with
Speaker 1: all of these diagnoses. So I had held it inside,
Speaker 1: and I held it inside and I didn't seek help.
Speaker 1: And then it just exploded UM when I was in
Speaker 1: high school and I rebelled and UM I started lashing
Speaker 1: out of teachers and not my friends and at other
Speaker 1: kids and that kind of stuff, and and it just
Speaker 1: kind of went in a downward spiral. I started to
Speaker 1: self medicate, and I started to seek UM love and
Speaker 1: all the wrong places, getting into the wrong kinds of
Speaker 1: relationships for the wrong reasons. And I just reached this
Speaker 1: point in my early twenties where I just didn't want
Speaker 1: to UM fight anymore. I just didn't feel like it
Speaker 1: was worth it, and so I tried to give up.
Speaker 1: And I was hospitalized for threatening to take my own
Speaker 1: life back in UM two thousand five UM. And it
Speaker 1: was when I was thrown into that hospital, and I
Speaker 1: didn't really know that I would be thrown into that hospital. UM.
Speaker 1: But I am not the biggest fan of being told
Speaker 1: what to do. UM. And that's all that you're that's all.
Speaker 1: That's all that happens in a hospital like that. You're
Speaker 1: told when to eat, when to be in group, what
Speaker 1: you eat, when you take medications. You don't have a
Speaker 1: say in what medications you take or if you take
Speaker 1: them at all, UM, all of those kind of things.
Speaker 1: And I just realized, Wow, I have all these choices
Speaker 1: that I make every single day outside of this place,
Speaker 1: and I feel like I don't have any control over them.
Speaker 1: When I have complete control over them, I might as
Speaker 1: well try to make choices to make my life better
Speaker 1: instead of just saying that, oh, it's not worth it,
Speaker 1: Oh it's this life sentence, I'm it's not worth fighting. Instead,
Speaker 1: I went and after that hospital, I did devote myself
Speaker 1: to really turning my life around. UM. And it took
Speaker 1: a few years to actually find something. It worked for
Speaker 1: me because there was a lot of failure in in
Speaker 1: that initial trying. UM I kind of just roller coastered
Speaker 1: up and down, and UM I finally found fitness and
Speaker 1: it was the one thing that could really helped me
Speaker 1: consistently make progress. UM while working with my therapist at
Speaker 1: the same time with cognitive behavioral therapy, UM, so I
Speaker 1: started thinking more positively. I started catching my my negative
Speaker 1: automatic negative thoughts in their tracks and and rewiring them.
Speaker 1: But the fitness was what really helped me to almost
Speaker 1: form this discipline to keep working on myself and not
Speaker 1: give up on myself. You were using therapy, um, you
Speaker 1: were in fitness. Were you tell me about medication? Were
Speaker 1: you on medication at that time? Did you? Did you?
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just I'm always curious about that as
Speaker 1: a fellow depression stuffer. And if you don't want to
Speaker 1: talk about you don't have to. But I'm just kind
Speaker 1: of curious how that route played out for you and
Speaker 1: the role it's played. I'm a totally open book as
Speaker 1: far as this stuff goes. I'm I'm gonna discuss my
Speaker 1: full story on Strong inside out with all the integritty details. UM.
Speaker 1: If you guys want to read that, it's strong inside
Speaker 1: out dot com slash about UM and it's just um.
Speaker 1: I did, in the very beginning do it with medication.
Speaker 1: And I'm actually not of the thinking that, you know,
Speaker 1: all medication is bad. I think it's really great for
Speaker 1: some people to get to a foundation, to get to
Speaker 1: a base where they can start taking action to change
Speaker 1: their lives, because they was seriously depressions so crippling that
Speaker 1: to get out of bed was my goal for the
Speaker 1: day at the very beginning. To to to make eye
Speaker 1: contact with somebody was a goal for the day. And
Speaker 1: I think your laugh because you know how that feels
Speaker 1: right just to have that one goal be so just
Speaker 1: astronomical and overwhelming. UM and just I don't know if um,
Speaker 1: I don't know if a lot of people know what
Speaker 1: it's like to feel such that that that crippling sense
Speaker 1: of depression, of just not being able to get up.
Speaker 1: And I think that medication is a tool to be
Speaker 1: used wisely, not to be relied upon, but to to
Speaker 1: get you to a point where you can start taking
Speaker 1: that action and hopefully you won't need it forever. But
Speaker 1: some people, honestly do it seems to be something that
Speaker 1: has I have been involved with longer than I thought
Speaker 1: I would, And even though being really healthy and other respects,
Speaker 1: there just seems to be a big difference between taking
Speaker 1: it and not taking it, regardless of exercise and all
Speaker 1: those different things. But everybody's got these different different approaches
Speaker 1: that I was just kind of curious. So my first
Speaker 1: question would be, you found fitness and we're really into it.
Speaker 1: Had you been into it before? Was it ever something
Speaker 1: that had been part of your life and you you
Speaker 1: liked it and then you came back to it, or
Speaker 1: had you previously been like, oh, I hate working out?
Speaker 1: I mean, what would be your relationship with it been
Speaker 1: in the past? Um? In high school and kind of
Speaker 1: growing up, I UM, I lived in northern California, UM,
Speaker 1: so I was kind of active in that we were
Speaker 1: outside a lot. But when I got into high school,
Speaker 1: I kind of became this like kind of cyberpunk kid
Speaker 1: and I didn't really like all the jobs were the
Speaker 1: ones who made on of us, and all the people
Speaker 1: who did sports were the ones who made fun of us.
Speaker 1: So I didn't want to work out. I thought it
Speaker 1: was stupid. I didn't want to be involved with the
Speaker 1: people who were working out with me, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: UM and so I actually did do a few sports
Speaker 1: in my freshman year, but they really tailed off towards
Speaker 1: my my UM sophomore, junior years, and um they were
Speaker 1: completely non existent in my senior year and throughout college.
Speaker 1: UM but so I hated it because of what, um
Speaker 1: the connotations that came with it, the kind of people
Speaker 1: who were involved with it. But um, but I don't
Speaker 1: think that that was fair either coming from me at
Speaker 1: that age. But I started um working out again because
Speaker 1: I was UM. I originally moved to l A when
Speaker 1: I was nineteen to do acting, and um so, as
Speaker 1: an actress, if I'm not a size double zero, I
Speaker 1: need to lose some weight. So I went into the
Speaker 1: gym and I worked out. You know, I used to
Speaker 1: say it was for the wrong reasons, but I don't
Speaker 1: think that there's any wrong reasons to start moving your body.
Speaker 1: So I kind of take back all of the times
Speaker 1: I've said that. Um So, I did start moving my body,
Speaker 1: but I wasn't fueling my my body correctly, and UM,
Speaker 1: I just kept going through these cycles of working out
Speaker 1: too much, burning myself out, and then leaving it for
Speaker 1: months on end. And then picking it back up and
Speaker 1: doing the same thing over again. Um, when I really
Speaker 1: started fueling my body with what it needed, and when
Speaker 1: I really started taking care of a lot of the
Speaker 1: kind of negative mindset I had around eating as well, Um,
Speaker 1: that really helped me to get more consistent and to
Speaker 1: find workouts that really I loved. And so is that
Speaker 1: Is that a big part of it? Do you think
Speaker 1: to continue to try different things to you find the
Speaker 1: workout that clicks for you? Oh? Yeah, for sure. I
Speaker 1: hope no one else's journey is as long as mine
Speaker 1: for funding things that work. But it really is about
Speaker 1: trying all different things. Because I tried yoga way back
Speaker 1: at the beginning of like my discovery of fitness, and
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, it's it's pretty good. I liked
Speaker 1: this one teacher. But then when he disappeared off the
Speaker 1: face of the earth, I I didn't do yoga for years,
Speaker 1: and I picked up again just a few years ago,
Speaker 1: and I fell in love with it and now I
Speaker 1: can't get enough of it. So you have to find
Speaker 1: that thing you just keep You have to keep trying,
Speaker 1: go by as many group ons as you can, right, right.
Speaker 1: So you talk a lot about change that. Obviously, in
Speaker 1: order to to to move from that place of being
Speaker 1: really depressed and unhappy with ourselves, we have to we
Speaker 1: have to make change. And you talk a lot about
Speaker 1: how that change has to come from us. And you've
Speaker 1: got something that you say, the truth of changes that
Speaker 1: a no one's going to do it for you and
Speaker 1: be there is no magic pill. Yep, it's so true.
Speaker 1: Sorry guys, Well I I you know, I love that
Speaker 1: because that's I'm certainly always I'm skeptical of anything that
Speaker 1: sounds like a magic pill. Um. And so but what
Speaker 1: what you've got and what I really liked when I
Speaker 1: started looking at your stuff is it's a very no nonsense,
Speaker 1: like you're just gonna have to go do this stuff, um,
Speaker 1: whether you feel like it or not. But what are
Speaker 1: ways that people can who are really stuck? How do
Speaker 1: you get going? You talk about momentum. It's it's another
Speaker 1: thing that this show talks a lot about how once
Speaker 1: we're moving. It's it's pretty good, But what are ways
Speaker 1: that people who are really stuck get moving? That's actually
Speaker 1: the main struggle I find in people who read Strong
Speaker 1: inside Out is just taking that first step. Um, That's
Speaker 1: what I wrote make this your moment about But um,
Speaker 1: we're specifically I have this strong Inside Out boot Camp,
Speaker 1: which is my workout program specifically for people who struggle
Speaker 1: with depression or anxiety, and it's just it's it's as
Speaker 1: soon as people start there like how do I get started?
Speaker 1: Please help me get started? And since I'm a personal
Speaker 1: coach in there, it's it's really exciting getting these people
Speaker 1: to realize that they can take those steps and that
Speaker 1: they can develop this consistent exercise program. But what I
Speaker 1: usually tell them is on their very first week, if
Speaker 1: they're really struggling, I'll just say, look tomorrow, I want
Speaker 1: you at this time of day, um, whatever time of
Speaker 1: day is best for them to get up and do
Speaker 1: ten minutes of movement, usually the workout that I have
Speaker 1: programmed for them. So do ten minutes of this workout.
Speaker 1: However many sets that ends up being. And when you
Speaker 1: get to ten minutes, you either can stop or you
Speaker 1: can keep going. It's totally up to you. The workout
Speaker 1: counts if you just do ten minutes and that's it,
Speaker 1: and then email me afterwards. And usually people will come
Speaker 1: to me after that ten minutes is done be like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, it was so much fun after the
Speaker 1: ten minutes. I really struggled in the first five, but
Speaker 1: after the ten minutes it was great, and I kept
Speaker 1: going and I felt really good. I finished two sets.
Speaker 1: So it's usually just challenging yourself to just ten minutes,
Speaker 1: because with exercise, it usually takes about that ten minutes
Speaker 1: to get over the hard stuff. So your body's processes
Speaker 1: are kind of you know, getting used to all the
Speaker 1: excess oxygen, all the extra effort that you're exerting, and
Speaker 1: it takes about that ten minutes for your body to
Speaker 1: chill out and just go with the flow. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: first ten minutes is it seems terrible no matter how
Speaker 1: in shape or not terrible is the wrong word, but difficult,
Speaker 1: no matter how in shape. I mean, you know, when
Speaker 1: I could run, you know, twenty miles, the first two
Speaker 1: miles were still like, oh god, they were the worst
Speaker 1: two miles totally, totally and uh and I always, you know,
Speaker 1: I think about that now where I'm like, well, if
Speaker 1: you never if you never run more than two miles,
Speaker 1: you never get to the good part. Yep, exactly. There's
Speaker 1: lots of workouts out there, so what's what's the difference
Speaker 1: about the approach that you're taking with people. Well, there's
Speaker 1: no program that's specifically for people who struggle with depression
Speaker 1: and anxiety. And I think that people who meet these
Speaker 1: very specific struggles need different kinds of workouts in a
Speaker 1: different kind of approach than any other program out there.
Speaker 1: Most of the programs you'll find out on the market
Speaker 1: right now in the fitness industry are too overwhelming there,
Speaker 1: you know. The a lot of them are those quick workouts.
Speaker 1: They're they're like really intense, and they're not maintainable and uh,
Speaker 1: the food programs that go with them or can actually
Speaker 1: worsen some people's anxiety. There's a lot of people in
Speaker 1: our program that have recovered from eating disorders and those
Speaker 1: kinds of things. UM, So my primary focus is mindset
Speaker 1: and just getting you moving. It's not a weight loss program,
Speaker 1: though some people are using that because we tailor everything
Speaker 1: to your goals because of the personal aspect with the
Speaker 1: coaching and the Facebook coaching and UM weekly group coaching
Speaker 1: as well or bi weekly excuse me, but it's really
Speaker 1: about UM giving you the right kinds of movement that
Speaker 1: will help destress you and de overwhelm you. So, for instance,
Speaker 1: for the depression group, because there's two tracks. There's the
Speaker 1: anxiety and stressed out group and there's the depression or
Speaker 1: lack of motivation group. So for the depression group, it's
Speaker 1: just about getting started and not overwhelming with too much movement,
Speaker 1: too much stress, because if you do things like I
Speaker 1: love HIT workouts, which is high into excuse me, high
Speaker 1: intensity interval training, and it's really like short burst quick activity,
Speaker 1: really sweaty, like really just panting and like sweating out
Speaker 1: your eyeballs. But that is not the best for people
Speaker 1: in this program, especially since most of these people are
Speaker 1: just starting out. So it's usually just um, very simple
Speaker 1: uh strength training, maybe circuits, um, but not going too fast,
Speaker 1: to tell people to just go with their own pace,
Speaker 1: take as long as it needs to go, and um,
Speaker 1: really focusing on the breath as well. Let's talk about
Speaker 1: mindset for example, because you're your your site is strong
Speaker 1: inside out, so you know, exercises sort of at least
Speaker 1: on the surfaces outside in right, I do something on
Speaker 1: the outside and it makes me feel better inside. How
Speaker 1: do you help people from the inside out? What are
Speaker 1: the what are the pieces inside that you're working on?
Speaker 1: What are what are the keys there? There's monthly mindset challenges.
Speaker 1: Our support system is really unique in that it's crazy
Speaker 1: supportive and they're for you wherever you need it. Um.
Speaker 1: We have the the Facebook group coaching, which we're very
Speaker 1: active in and most of our members are very active
Speaker 1: in there as well and very supportive. It's a completely
Speaker 1: positive and safe space. We have the personal coaching aspect,
Speaker 1: which is done over email, but it's it's completely personalized
Speaker 1: so that people are going after their own goals with
Speaker 1: the help of the boot camp, so it's them first,
Speaker 1: boot camp second, if that makes sense. And then we
Speaker 1: also have bi weekly group coaching calls where they get
Speaker 1: to meet each other and I get to talk to
Speaker 1: them face to face and remind everybody that I'm not
Speaker 1: a robot, that I'm a human being and I'm there
Speaker 1: for them, and that each person in here is there
Speaker 1: for them to um. So the support aspect is really
Speaker 1: really wonderful in tailoring that to a specific mindsets. But
Speaker 1: also we have mindset challenges in there that change every month,
Speaker 1: So every month you'll get a mindset challenge in For instance,
Speaker 1: one of them is meditate five days a week and
Speaker 1: that's for the anxiety track, and that's just to kind
Speaker 1: of build up a good habit, and a lot of
Speaker 1: these things you will not are not a lot of
Speaker 1: these things. Some of these things you won't relate with.
Speaker 1: Some of these things will not help you personally, but
Speaker 1: at least you gave them a shot and you tried
Speaker 1: them and you found out they don't work for you,
Speaker 1: So hopefully a few of them will work really well
Speaker 1: for you. UM And that's what we aim to do
Speaker 1: through It's it's a six month program, so you get
Speaker 1: six mindset challenges altogether, and so it sounds like a
Speaker 1: big part of what you think is important to making
Speaker 1: changes that accountability and support, accountability support and just habit.
Speaker 1: Really focus on habits, not so much just you know,
Speaker 1: one thing for you know, this week, and then something
Speaker 1: else next week. What do you recommend for people when
Speaker 1: they are we get moving, We're doing a few things,
Speaker 1: but inevitably those days come where it's like, I just
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to do this, all right,
Speaker 1: you know I don't. I'm really I'm really battling with
Speaker 1: doing the thing that I know is good for me.
Speaker 1: What sort of thought process do you go through, um
Speaker 1: or or you recommend other people can go through to
Speaker 1: kind of get past that stuck moment where they're really
Speaker 1: whether they're really wrestling with sort of falling back into
Speaker 1: those older patterns, or not wanting to get out of
Speaker 1: bed that day, that sort of thing, a honor it
Speaker 1: with a break or be have that source of support
Speaker 1: behind you so that when you feel like that, you
Speaker 1: can reach out to those people and say, hey, I'm
Speaker 1: really struggling today, this is what I'm feeling. Tell me something.
Speaker 1: And either they're gonna say, hey, it sounds like you
Speaker 1: just need a break. You've done this many days in
Speaker 1: a row, and so just take a day off. Let's
Speaker 1: go get coffee or something, or they're going to say, no,
Speaker 1: you need to get up because you know you're going
Speaker 1: to feel X, Y and Z way if you do.
Speaker 1: And these are your goals and just put them out
Speaker 1: in front of you. Having that support system, it really
Speaker 1: is so key. I've heard you talk in other places.
Speaker 1: I think it would be safe to say that UM
Speaker 1: depression or feeling bad is not like eliminated from your life.
Speaker 1: How do you what's that like for you today and
Speaker 1: how are you able to deal with it better now
Speaker 1: than you were before? Well, what I struggle with clinical
Speaker 1: depression so it's always going to be here. It's not
Speaker 1: anything that I can make go away completely. If I
Speaker 1: said that, I would be in total denial. And so
Speaker 1: that's one thing that I think people come to my
Speaker 1: site and they don't realize is that I still struggle.
Speaker 1: I still struggle every so often, a few times a year,
Speaker 1: I'll go into these depressions. I just went out into
Speaker 1: one in the fall, and I was honest and I
Speaker 1: wrote about it. But the difference now is that I
Speaker 1: don't let it rule my life. I don't make it.
Speaker 1: I don't let it make decisions for me. I don't
Speaker 1: let it keep me from living a life that I
Speaker 1: want to live. I live in spite of it. So
Speaker 1: that's what I hope to help other people do too. Um.
Speaker 1: And when it comes around, I really do honor it.
Speaker 1: I don't try to, you know, I don't. I try
Speaker 1: not to feed that wolf so much. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't like dwell in it. Um. I know. I'll do
Speaker 1: a good cry every now and then, But then when
Speaker 1: that cry has done, I'm like, well, that was good
Speaker 1: time to take action and start moving forward again. Time
Speaker 1: to do the things that I know we're going to
Speaker 1: pull me out of this faster than if I'm I
Speaker 1: just sit in my house and dwell in it. So
Speaker 1: I'll call my friends I have. I have a wonderful
Speaker 1: support system. Is so grateful for I pull out my
Speaker 1: gratitude journal as I say something I'm grateful for. Um,
Speaker 1: I'll go to the gym, or I'll go I don't
Speaker 1: actually go to the gym. That's that's kind of a lie.
Speaker 1: At What I do when I'm in those um down
Speaker 1: points is I'll go for a run outside. That really
Speaker 1: helps to reroute me into grounding myself in the in
Speaker 1: the good. Um. But I have all of these tools
Speaker 1: on my tool belt. Now, that did take a few
Speaker 1: years to kind of get there. But that's what I'm
Speaker 1: hoping to help people do for themselves too. You have
Speaker 1: a line that says it's beyond important to realize that
Speaker 1: you don't have to be living the perfect life to
Speaker 1: be happy. M tell me what you mean by that, Oh,
Speaker 1: exactly what I just said. I don't. I don't live
Speaker 1: a perfect life for sure. I mean I I I
Speaker 1: fail sometimes, I get depressed sometimes, but it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: I can't be happy in the middle of it. Failure
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be this life shattering event. You know,
Speaker 1: depression doesn't have to be this life shattering event. You
Speaker 1: can still be happy in moments even if you are
Speaker 1: feeling that depression. It doesn't have to have this hold
Speaker 1: over you. That wolf doesn't have to devour you every
Speaker 1: single day, every single moment, you know. UM, So I
Speaker 1: think that that's it's just about really choosing the life
Speaker 1: that you want to live and whatever else happens to you,
Speaker 1: because you can't control everything that happens to you, just
Speaker 1: react accordingly. That's great. So you talked about UM making
Speaker 1: your own motivation. So we've talked a little bit about
Speaker 1: using UM you know, people to support you and do
Speaker 1: all that, and you talk about making your own motivation.
Speaker 1: And then there are two other concepts that you talk
Speaker 1: about with that. One is the resistance and the other
Speaker 1: is the wall. Can you explain that or you know,
Speaker 1: unpack that a little bit more sure? So, the resistance
Speaker 1: is something that we come up against a lot, so
Speaker 1: a lot of you. If you, if you guys are
Speaker 1: struggling with getting moving or or getting past a plateau
Speaker 1: or something like that, then you're up against a lot
Speaker 1: of resistance because you know that you need to change
Speaker 1: the way that you are right now in order to
Speaker 1: get a different result. Right, but that change is massive.
Speaker 1: Any any change like that is massive that that's going
Speaker 1: to get you to you know, a body change, of
Speaker 1: mindset change, um, anything like that. So the resistance that
Speaker 1: pops up in you is completely normal. But it's all
Speaker 1: about just becoming aware of that resistance and breathing into
Speaker 1: it and not necessarily fighting it, not like pushing it down,
Speaker 1: pushing it away, but really just honoring what you're resisting,
Speaker 1: why you're resisting it, and then doing it anyways. Just
Speaker 1: going for it and and knowing that it's gone has
Speaker 1: probably suck, and that's totally cool, but just go for it.
Speaker 1: You owe yourself at least to try. UM. And the
Speaker 1: wall is very much like like the resistance is. The
Speaker 1: wall is just something that it's just really really basically
Speaker 1: intensified resistance. Walk me through in in your own head.
Speaker 1: So you know you're in one of those low periods
Speaker 1: for you, and there's things you know that are good
Speaker 1: for you, and you don't feel like you know you
Speaker 1: you you come up against that resistance, What what goes
Speaker 1: on in your own head? What do you tell yourself? Well,
Speaker 1: first I acknowledge it, so it's really important to acknowledge
Speaker 1: it and not pretend that nothing's there, that nothing is
Speaker 1: keeping you back besides yourself. But it's something that a
Speaker 1: lot of my friends tell themselves, like the only person
Speaker 1: holding you back is you, and that's true, but it's
Speaker 1: also like, hey, tell you're really resisting, Like, go a
Speaker 1: little bit deeper into that and you'll find that resistance there,
Speaker 1: just like a block right in front of you. So
Speaker 1: what are your resisting and why? Is something that I
Speaker 1: constantly ask myself. I like to do a lot of
Speaker 1: questionnaires with myself. So what are you resisting and why? Um?
Speaker 1: What are you what do you see in your future
Speaker 1: that that's causing all this resistance? And then I usually
Speaker 1: I'll sometimes i'll journal, but usually I just think it
Speaker 1: through or I'll talk it through with I'm a huge
Speaker 1: fan of therapy and I think it's great for everybody,
Speaker 1: So I'll talk it through with my therapist or a
Speaker 1: good friend of mine or my husband and just um
Speaker 1: really work it out, UM down to the detail of
Speaker 1: why I'm resistance is usually fear, So what I'm scared of? Um?
Speaker 1: And uh, why I need to take action anyways? And
Speaker 1: if this is particular action is really causing a lot
Speaker 1: of resistance. Is there another action that I can take
Speaker 1: that would get me the same result? So I'm really
Speaker 1: analytical when it comes to that kind of stuff. UM,
Speaker 1: But usually I need somebody else to help me through that.
Speaker 1: I need the assistance of like my husband or a friend,
Speaker 1: or a therapist or something. Said that resistance for you
Speaker 1: is usually some sort of fear that you find inside.
Speaker 1: Can you can you give any examples of what those
Speaker 1: what those might look like, what those might be. I'm
Speaker 1: just I really think it's interesting for somebody who has UM.
Speaker 1: You know, you've you've you've found a way to overcome
Speaker 1: that that stuck spot. And I just think it's really
Speaker 1: interesting to see what it's going on in people's heads
Speaker 1: that have the ability to do that. Oh thank you.
Speaker 1: I think that the fear is fear is the main
Speaker 1: motivation behind most resistance, behind you know, most people's lack
Speaker 1: of motivation to change UM. And I think that it's
Speaker 1: you know, we can go through an example of maybe
Speaker 1: you're afraid to take that first step into moving your
Speaker 1: body because you're afraid of how much work it's going
Speaker 1: to take, UM, because what if you fail? And You've
Speaker 1: done all this work and it was all for nothing.
Speaker 1: But the thing is that you owe yourself that shot.
Speaker 1: You owe yourself at least to try um to see
Speaker 1: if it works, because who knows you could, you know,
Speaker 1: discover all of these things that make you really happy
Speaker 1: by just trying. I mean, life isn't meant to be
Speaker 1: sat at a desk and waiting waiting for somebody to
Speaker 1: change your life for you. Life is meant to be
Speaker 1: an adventure. It's really meant for you to go out
Speaker 1: and ask all these things and find out what doesn't
Speaker 1: work for you. And that's going to mean failure, and
Speaker 1: it's gonna hurt so bad, but it's gonna be awesome
Speaker 1: because after that you're gonna learn what is going to
Speaker 1: work for you. But in order to learn all those things,
Speaker 1: you have to go try it. You have to go
Speaker 1: do it for yourself, because no one will do it
Speaker 1: for you. Another line that you use it I really like,
Speaker 1: and I think it's a little bit it's probably slightly
Speaker 1: intentionally provocative, but it's a great line, which is a
Speaker 1: lot of us need to grow up in what ways
Speaker 1: did you need to grow up? I really grew up
Speaker 1: when I started taking responsibility for my own life. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people get stuck in and it's
Speaker 1: part of the depression mindset. To man, it's just that
Speaker 1: you get stuck in this place where you think it's
Speaker 1: not fair and that you shouldn't have to deal with
Speaker 1: this depression. You shouldn't have to deal with this disorder.
Speaker 1: Not everybody has to deal with this. Why am I
Speaker 1: going through this? And then that causes a lot of
Speaker 1: negative actions that make your life worse or keep it
Speaker 1: exactly the same in this dark hole, and it's I
Speaker 1: started saying, Actually, I wrote about this one where I
Speaker 1: was talking with my friend and I had just recently
Speaker 1: gone through a really horrible breakup, and this was right
Speaker 1: before I really changed my life for the better. And
Speaker 1: I was just crying to him one day and I said,
Speaker 1: I'm just so tired of being the victim. And it
Speaker 1: just looked at me and just kind of stared at me,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I think I'm making myself the
Speaker 1: victim by not choosing not to be one. And that's
Speaker 1: what a lot of us do. Is by you choosing
Speaker 1: not to be, you know, the hero of your own life,
Speaker 1: you're choosing the victim role. So yeah, us gently, lovingly.
Speaker 1: I'm saying, some of us need to grow up, but
Speaker 1: it's not easy, and I respect that it's hard for
Speaker 1: a lot of us. It was really hard for me. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I think it's a lot of what you're saying is
Speaker 1: that it's that to me means m becoming realistic about
Speaker 1: what's what's really going on, which is kind of some
Speaker 1: of the you know, the tough pills to swallow, even
Speaker 1: though there's no magic pill, but that's one of them, right,
Speaker 1: there's no magic and that it's going to be hard
Speaker 1: to change and it's going to take effort, and um,
Speaker 1: I'm the only one that can do it. And I
Speaker 1: think that's not childish thinking. That's that's a much more
Speaker 1: mature way of looking at the world and challenging but
Speaker 1: ultimately fruitful. Another thing that you recently wrote about was
Speaker 1: something that you we called three mindset changers to make
Speaker 1: any situation suck less. Can you talk about what those are? Sure?
Speaker 1: It's um, I'm big on mantras. Um. They really helped
Speaker 1: me through a lot of my recovery. They really speak
Speaker 1: to me and I use them when I work out.
Speaker 1: Basically through everything that I do in my life. Mantra
Speaker 1: helps me through it. Um. So mantra is kind of
Speaker 1: just like an affirmation that you say to yourself that
Speaker 1: helps UM to rout you and what really matters to you. UM.
Speaker 1: So I constantly share them on Strong Inside Out. But UM,
Speaker 1: this past couple of weeks UM, my rise Up group,
Speaker 1: which is my depression group UM in the Strong Inside
Speaker 1: Out boot Camp has been just kind of thrown for
Speaker 1: a loop. It feels like everybody's going through some major
Speaker 1: changes that they didn't necessarily know we're coming. Some people
Speaker 1: are losing their jobs, some people are you know, breaking
Speaker 1: up with people. Some people are just just major changes
Speaker 1: in their life and they're just like not sure how
Speaker 1: to handle them. It's just really overwhelming and they're doing
Speaker 1: a great job with it. But I thought that maybe
Speaker 1: I could write something that would help them to start
Speaker 1: to UM to view it differently, or or maybe move
Speaker 1: through it a little bit faster. So UM the very
Speaker 1: first one was that the story doesn't end here. So
Speaker 1: a lot of us that struggle with depression. UM. The
Speaker 1: one of the biggest risks is UM dwelling, and dwelling
Speaker 1: will keep us in it longer. UM. So I believe
Speaker 1: that if you tell yourself that the story doesn't end here.
Speaker 1: If you read any good book, the story won't end
Speaker 1: where the hero is just right in the middle of
Speaker 1: a really big struggle and then it ends. It doesn't.
Speaker 1: It doesn't end that way, and it shouldn't end that
Speaker 1: way for you either. UM. So if you just keep
Speaker 1: thinking that the story doesn't end here, the hero will prevail.
Speaker 1: Just keep telling yourself things like that that will help
Speaker 1: you through it. UM. But also the next one was, UM,
Speaker 1: the I don't remember the next one. UM, this is
Speaker 1: your not this is not your forever. Reminding yourself that, UM,
Speaker 1: this one instance is temporary. It's not permanent. It's not
Speaker 1: always going to be like the US. There are waves,
Speaker 1: the tide will go out again. UM. That is something
Speaker 1: that helps me a lot of the time if I'm
Speaker 1: going through a dark period. UM. And then the last
Speaker 1: thing is which UM is for an extremely psuchy situation.
Speaker 1: Sometimes we do something that we're responsible for and we
Speaker 1: end up ruining it, and that's something that's bound to
Speaker 1: throw anybody into a depression. So say you you cheat
Speaker 1: it on somebody, or you did something at work that
Speaker 1: got you fired, or something like that. UM. The mantra
Speaker 1: that I'm using UM for to help those people is
Speaker 1: that this one event doesn't determine my worth. This doesn't
Speaker 1: make you who you are. This one time that you
Speaker 1: did something crappy doesn't make you crappy person. It just
Speaker 1: means that you did something crappy. So Okay, take a
Speaker 1: deep breath, apologize, but now move on from it. Don't
Speaker 1: let it own any more of your life. It doesn't
Speaker 1: deserve any more of your time. Just move forward. You
Speaker 1: don't have to let own you. Yeah, and that can
Speaker 1: even hold true for multiple crappy things you've done for
Speaker 1: a lot of us. Right, it's not one, it's a
Speaker 1: it's a string of crappy things sort of strung together
Speaker 1: in a period of time. And then, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that that's also like something that A is based on.
Speaker 1: Two is they they call and um, you know, apologize
Speaker 1: to people in the past that who they've heard. I
Speaker 1: think that's a that's a really great way to heal. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it's similar to that idea that um, you know,
Speaker 1: failure is an event, not you know, it's not who
Speaker 1: you are. It's a very similar concept to be able
Speaker 1: to separate our identity of who we are from the
Speaker 1: actions that we take in the results we get from those,
Speaker 1: which is very you know, it's that can be a
Speaker 1: very difficult thing to do. H We're near the end
Speaker 1: of our time. But one last thing I wanted to
Speaker 1: just touch on briefly is you talked about one of
Speaker 1: the big things it was important to you and that
Speaker 1: early recovery was was using cognitive behavioral therapy and using
Speaker 1: it to question those automatic negative thoughts and not asking
Speaker 1: you to be a counselor in this case. But can
Speaker 1: you give a quick walk through what that process is? Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: So it's it took me a really long time to
Speaker 1: make it habit, but eventually did UM. And that was
Speaker 1: that with the help of an amazing therapist. And I
Speaker 1: actually worked with a social worker in the beginning of
Speaker 1: my my journey with that and she was wonderful. UM.
Speaker 1: But it's it's really about becoming aware of the negative
Speaker 1: thoughts that happen, uh, their triggers, what what makes you
Speaker 1: feel that way, so that you can be more prepared
Speaker 1: for for those events, and then UM looking for the
Speaker 1: truth in it or looking for evidence within it, and
Speaker 1: if there isn't any, then you can talk yourself out
Speaker 1: of it. That much easier. If there is some then
Speaker 1: what can you do to to um, take care of it,
Speaker 1: to lessen the anxiety that it's causing you. UM. So
Speaker 1: that's basically cognitive behavioral therapy. And I would suggest that
Speaker 1: you read more from me because that was a very
Speaker 1: simplified person of what it is, but just being aware
Speaker 1: of of what we're thinking and then being able to
Speaker 1: question the validity of that. Yeah, And it really did
Speaker 1: help me a lot with mindfulness as well, which is
Speaker 1: so just so helpful with depression at all. I'm always
Speaker 1: a thing that I'm intrigued about, and we talked about
Speaker 1: on the show a lot, and I'd be interested in
Speaker 1: get in your perspective on it. Is somebody who deals
Speaker 1: with depression and recognizes that there's both a need to
Speaker 1: feel the feelings that are happening and also the need
Speaker 1: to take action that moves beyond those How how for
Speaker 1: yourself do you know when it's time to do which
Speaker 1: of those things right? Because it's one we can go
Speaker 1: way too far in either direction where I just wallow
Speaker 1: in my feeling, or the flip side is you can
Speaker 1: jump into action and use business and action to avoid
Speaker 1: things that legitimately need to be dealt with in your life.
Speaker 1: How how does that balance strike? How do you strike
Speaker 1: that balance? It's it's like a tight rope walking that
Speaker 1: So that's a really good question. I think that that
Speaker 1: it's um it's really hard because I think it's so
Speaker 1: personal for me personally. When I feel it coming is
Speaker 1: when I usually, you know, cut back on the high
Speaker 1: intensity workouts, cut back on um, you know, saying yes
Speaker 1: to every single thing that comes my way, which I've
Speaker 1: actually brought in a lot better about in the past
Speaker 1: couple of years. But I get really excited about pretty
Speaker 1: much everything. So UM, I have a problem with that. UM.
Speaker 1: But I think that it's just just about really again,
Speaker 1: that awareness. I'm a kind of a broken record when
Speaker 1: it comes to this kind of thing, But it really
Speaker 1: is about that awareness and and asking yourself what you need,
Speaker 1: what you need to feel the best you possible, what
Speaker 1: you need to move forward, and sometimes what you need
Speaker 1: to move forward is just to be here and feel
Speaker 1: it just for a few days or just for a
Speaker 1: day even and depending on the how much the depression
Speaker 1: is getting you. UM. But then really just staying aware
Speaker 1: of the fact that you want to do there are
Speaker 1: things in your life that don't include lying around the
Speaker 1: house and not doing anything. So so really just kind
Speaker 1: of watching yourself with an outside eye and and being
Speaker 1: able to honor those other things that you want to
Speaker 1: do just as much as what you need. Yep. That's
Speaker 1: always such a a tricky balance to find. And but
Speaker 1: I think that, um, it is that I feel like
Speaker 1: a broken record too lately with on some podcasts I've
Speaker 1: been on where I just it's like I just keep
Speaker 1: coming back to awareness, Like if I'm not aware, none
Speaker 1: of this other stuff works. I mean, just you can't
Speaker 1: do any of it if if we're I can't do
Speaker 1: any of it if I'm not aware of what's actually
Speaker 1: happening and trying to catch those thoughts, think about them,
Speaker 1: interrogate him, question them, and then try and think about
Speaker 1: what's the direction forward. Yeah, so so true. So we
Speaker 1: can be broken records together, all right? Perfect? Well, Amy,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for taking the time to come on
Speaker 1: the show. Um. I will have links to your strong
Speaker 1: inside Out pages on our show notes, and I really
Speaker 1: appreciate you taking the time. Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1: This is a lot of fun. Okay, take care, bye bye.
Speaker 1: You can learn more about Amy Clover and this podcast
Speaker 1: at one you Feed dot Net, slash Clover, and just
Speaker 1: as a reminder, if you're interested in working with me
Speaker 1: one on one on feeding your good Wolf, send me
Speaker 1: an email at Eric at one you Feed dot Net.
Speaker 1: Thanks bye,