Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey, y'all, today, we have one of the great
Speaker 1: innovators in popular music ever on the show. And I
Speaker 1: don't say that lightly, Missy Misdemeanor Elliott. This year is
Speaker 1: the twenty fifth anniversary of Missy's certified classic debut album,
Speaker 1: Super Dupa Fly. When that album first dropped, Missy's unconventional
Speaker 1: rhyme scheme and unique flavor, paired with her childhood friend
Speaker 1: Timberland's futuristic production, set a precedent for what was creatively
Speaker 1: possible in hip hop, and throughout her career, Missy's maintained
Speaker 1: that level of playful creativity. You can hear it on
Speaker 1: her slew of radio hits like get Your Freak On,
Speaker 1: Work It, Lose Control, and definitely on her album cuts.
Speaker 1: As of this year, Missy has more platinum albums than
Speaker 1: any other female rapper. Of course, Missy can also flex
Speaker 1: as a producer and songwriter. She's the first female rapper
Speaker 1: to be inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame, having
Speaker 1: written songs from Mariah Carey, Beyonce, Destiny's Child, and of
Speaker 1: course Aliyah's biggest hits One in a Million and If
Speaker 1: Your Girl Only Knew Today. Rick Rubin talks to Missy
Speaker 1: Elliott about her wide reaching influence and creative process. She
Speaker 1: explains what it was like writing for Eliah, who was
Speaker 1: one of the first artists to embrace Missy and Timberland's
Speaker 1: unique style. She also talks about why she and Timberland
Speaker 1: made a pact not to listen to any other music
Speaker 1: while recording her debut. This is broken record liner notes
Speaker 1: for the Digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's Rick Rubin
Speaker 1: and Missy Elliott. Hello, Hello, what, I'm Laddie. Hello. What
Speaker 1: have you been listening to these days? To be honest, nothing.
Speaker 1: Do you not listen to music regularly? Well, you know
Speaker 1: it's weird because I do listen to a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of music, but a lot of it. I
Speaker 1: catch it when I catch it, especially when I'm starting
Speaker 1: to work on stuff. I go into this place of
Speaker 1: not listening to anything. And that's how, you know, pretty
Speaker 1: much started. When I first started, me and Tim just
Speaker 1: like not listening. You know, we were forbidden to listen
Speaker 1: to other people's stuff or watch videos, and I think
Speaker 1: in a crazy way, that ended up working in our
Speaker 1: favor because we didn't see nor hear, so we ended
Speaker 1: up creating a sound that we didn't know we were creating.
Speaker 1: We just didn't know what was hot, so we didn't
Speaker 1: know it was hot to mimic it. And I think
Speaker 1: that always works because then it allows you to not
Speaker 1: be so afraid to try something new because you don't
Speaker 1: know what's hot out there to know if yours is
Speaker 1: too far or not enough. What about listening to classics? Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I know, people get in my car and feel like
Speaker 1: day in the eighties and the nineties because I'm gonna
Speaker 1: always play those joys, like those classics, the timeless records
Speaker 1: will always stay in my car. I know. My little
Speaker 1: cousins hated know, they hate it. They be like, don't
Speaker 1: you got don't you got the TikTok those? Nah, But
Speaker 1: listen to this, Listen to this one twelve record. It's
Speaker 1: just something about it that warms my heart for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: What was the music playing in your house when you
Speaker 1: were growing up? Was their music in your house when
Speaker 1: you were growing up? Oh? Yeah. So the funny thing
Speaker 1: about when I was growing up, my mother was into
Speaker 1: gospel and my father was into R and B, which
Speaker 1: you know in the gospel world they say worldly music.
Speaker 1: So I had the best of both worlds, because I
Speaker 1: had my mother playing gospel records and and then you know,
Speaker 1: my father would be playing Marvin Gay, Prince Michael. Then
Speaker 1: he would go to minute work, I remember whipp It,
Speaker 1: you know, Grace Jones or whatever like he So it
Speaker 1: was Gospel on one side and R and B on
Speaker 1: the other side. Did your parents listen to each other's music?
Speaker 1: Did your dad like the gospel and did your mom
Speaker 1: like the R and B? No? Absolutely not. That's probably
Speaker 1: why they didn't stay together. No, my mother was really
Speaker 1: in the gospel, and I would be in my room
Speaker 1: and I'm the only child, so you they would turn
Speaker 1: the music up on both ends. And when you come
Speaker 1: from a gospel world, you know, hearing R and B
Speaker 1: and especially Marvin Gay's sexual healing, it's like what you know,
Speaker 1: my mom was not having it, and my father didn't
Speaker 1: want to hear the gospel either, so they it was
Speaker 1: like a DJ contest that for whatever reason, it felt
Speaker 1: like that. Do you feel like you were more influenced
Speaker 1: by hearing the R and B or the gospel? I
Speaker 1: was influenced by both. I think I learned harmonies by
Speaker 1: listening to the gospel. I think I learned feeling by
Speaker 1: listening to the gospel. Something about gospel music just has
Speaker 1: a conviction when you hear the singers. The R and
Speaker 1: B side, there was a sauce that that I learned
Speaker 1: from that and lyrical content love, you know, heartache, what's
Speaker 1: going on in the world, And so I think God
Speaker 1: I had the best of both. A matter of fact,
Speaker 1: I know I did in a weird way, being in
Speaker 1: the middle in the in my room hearing both sides,
Speaker 1: I was absorbing both like a sponge at the time.
Speaker 1: Did you like them both when you were a kid?
Speaker 1: Do you remember liking them both as a kid? I
Speaker 1: feel like I did like them both, because you know church,
Speaker 1: you go to church. You're going to church Wednesday for
Speaker 1: prayer meeting, Thursday for choir rehearsal Sunday. You know, you
Speaker 1: just it's like church, church, church, church. So you had
Speaker 1: no choice but to like that. And I liked it
Speaker 1: anyway because I just come from a spiritual family. The
Speaker 1: R and B side I loved like I stayed in
Speaker 1: the mirror memoryking these artists, and I would get in
Speaker 1: the mirror and I would make up these speeches that
Speaker 1: you know, I was at the awards thinking Michael and Janet.
Speaker 1: I hadn't even met these people yet. I you know,
Speaker 1: it was like, thank you, Madonna for letting me write
Speaker 1: records for you. I hadn't met none of them, and
Speaker 1: I was constantly doing that in front of my doll babies.
Speaker 1: So it was something about that that I knew I
Speaker 1: was gonna go in that direction. Were your parents supportive
Speaker 1: of your interest in music or did they laugh at
Speaker 1: you for, you know, thinking this is what you were
Speaker 1: going to do. By the time I decided to become
Speaker 1: an artist, my mother and father had separated. My mother
Speaker 1: was trying to get me in the military, and I
Speaker 1: was like, I can't even walk from here to the
Speaker 1: car without getting tired. I know, you don't expect me
Speaker 1: to go and nobody's navy or army and be running
Speaker 1: for my dear life, you know. So they in my
Speaker 1: family they didn't take me serious because in Virginia at
Speaker 1: that time, artist wasn't going through Virginia like that, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe a show here there, It wasn't like it is now.
Speaker 1: So it was hard to believe that I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: away and I'm gonna be famous. But I have been
Speaker 1: saying that since I was a little girl, like I
Speaker 1: remember in kindergarten. Every Friday, the teacher would ask what
Speaker 1: we want to be, and I would listen to the
Speaker 1: kids saying, I'm gonna be a fireman, I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: a policeman, I'm gonna be a teacher, and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be a doctor. And they come around to me and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm gonna be a superstar in a whole
Speaker 1: class with just bust out laughing, and I never wavered.
Speaker 1: Every Friday I said the same thing, and they laughed
Speaker 1: every Friday, And I always wanted to do those kids
Speaker 1: remember me because I remember them, I remember them well.
Speaker 1: But yeah, my family they didn't think that that could happen,
Speaker 1: and they didn't think it was best for me because
Speaker 1: they I think they thought that I would be naive
Speaker 1: and go out there and be willing out and get
Speaker 1: on all kind of situations that I had no business,
Speaker 1: So they didn't think it was good for me at first.
Speaker 1: Tell me about growing up in Virginia. Just tell me
Speaker 1: about Virginia a little bit. Describe the place you grew
Speaker 1: up in the area Virginia. I grew up in Portsmouth, Virginia,
Speaker 1: and everybody knew everybody. Small town feeling, yes, very small town.
Speaker 1: Like you know in New York, you may run into
Speaker 1: somebody and you may never see them ever again. In
Speaker 1: life in Virginia, you're going to no matter whether you're
Speaker 1: from Virginia, Beach Hampton, Rose, Newport News, Suffolk, Norfolk, in
Speaker 1: those places, you're going to run into them again. And
Speaker 1: you know, in Virginia everybody is just like family. You know,
Speaker 1: I remember time where we used to we can't do
Speaker 1: that now, but we used to go up to each
Speaker 1: other house and just knock on the screen door and
Speaker 1: be like coming in. We didn't lock our doors, and
Speaker 1: you know, we all played together and it just was
Speaker 1: a fun place growing up. Was it more like the
Speaker 1: country or was it more like the suburbs? Would you
Speaker 1: say Portsmouth was country? We had the dirt roads. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: like we had the dirt roads like mad Woods, and yeah,
Speaker 1: we didn't see we didn't see like paved roads like that.
Speaker 1: And I and were I used to stay in a
Speaker 1: place called pews Bill and we didn't see that for
Speaker 1: a long time. Like our roads were very rocky now
Speaker 1: where Tim and for Real is from, they were kind
Speaker 1: of like the upscale in Virginia Beach, so they might
Speaker 1: have had paid roles in Portsmouth. Nah, we when coming up,
Speaker 1: we had a lot of dirt roads. I've only been
Speaker 1: in Virginia Beach one time, and that was to visit
Speaker 1: Teddy Riley in his studio back a while Bure. I
Speaker 1: think it was Future Records. Yes, do you know I
Speaker 1: love Teddy? When I tell you I love Teddy? And
Speaker 1: my group went to Teddy and sung for him like
Speaker 1: we were so scared. We used to drive past his
Speaker 1: studio all the time, and we finally got up the
Speaker 1: nerve to go to his studio and sing, and it
Speaker 1: was maybe like five of us and we sang and
Speaker 1: he was like, I see five of y'all, but I
Speaker 1: only hear two part harmony, like no, and he didn't
Speaker 1: sign us. I was like, oh my god, I like
Speaker 1: it was like starting all over again because we had
Speaker 1: spent so much time working up the nerve to finally
Speaker 1: go to his studio because we used to always drive
Speaker 1: past it see all of these fly cars, and finally
Speaker 1: got in there and he was like, I see five
Speaker 1: of y'all, but I only heard two far How old
Speaker 1: were you at that time? Do you remember? Um? We
Speaker 1: had to been nineteen. How much did you record with
Speaker 1: the group. Oh, we did a whole album. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: used to be in a group called Sister, which was
Speaker 1: signed to Jodicee and we were signed under Sylvia Ron
Speaker 1: and Sylvia Roone let DeVante label go, which means we
Speaker 1: got dropped two any anybody that was under him, and
Speaker 1: then she came back and signed me as a solo artist. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We always me and her always joke about that and
Speaker 1: it's like you dropped me and then you signed me.
Speaker 1: It all worked out. It all worked out. When the
Speaker 1: group ended, was it clear that you were gonna do
Speaker 1: solo as opposed to either continue with the group or
Speaker 1: put together a new group. I had no clue I
Speaker 1: was gonna ever go solo. So the story behind that
Speaker 1: is I was in the group, we got signed, We
Speaker 1: went to a Joe to See show, and we performed
Speaker 1: for Dalvin, and then Dalvin made us perform for Casey.
Speaker 1: Casey made us perform for Jojo, and then we ended
Speaker 1: up performing for Devonte and so he said, Hey, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sign y'all. I'm gonna fly y'all up to
Speaker 1: New York next week. We didn't believe him, but he
Speaker 1: really did, and so I signed with him and I
Speaker 1: kept telling him, Hey, you know, I got this guy
Speaker 1: and he does all of our music and I'm telling
Speaker 1: you he is amazing and his name is DJ Timmy Tim,
Speaker 1: and he was like, I don't care who he is.
Speaker 1: He say, you know me, and I'll be sure, are
Speaker 1: gonna do you all album? And I said, please, please,
Speaker 1: you know, bring him up here? Can I please bring
Speaker 1: him up here? And I begged and begged until he
Speaker 1: finally bought Tim. And then once Tim came, I said, hey,
Speaker 1: I got another friend. His name is Magoo. I promise
Speaker 1: he is so dope. He was like, you're not gonna
Speaker 1: bring everybody from Virginia, and so I got them up there.
Speaker 1: So I ended up leaving and I was the first
Speaker 1: one to leave, and I didn't know where I was going.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what I was going to do. I
Speaker 1: had no plans or nothing. It was a scary thing
Speaker 1: because you know, mind you my family had already thought this,
Speaker 1: this was a bad idea. So I go somewhere and
Speaker 1: now I'm back at the crib. I'm home and it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: what are you doing here? I thought she was going
Speaker 1: away to be a star and I'm like, no, I'm back.
Speaker 1: But before any of that, Magoo introduced me to Timp,
Speaker 1: So I know I'm going backwards. But we were in
Speaker 1: high school and Magool I always asked him, like, I
Speaker 1: don't even remember how I met Magoo, but it's so crazy.
Speaker 1: He Magoo ended up giving me the name Misdemeanor because
Speaker 1: he said it was a crime for one to have
Speaker 1: as many talents as I had, and I stuck with
Speaker 1: that name, and he was just like, hey, I got
Speaker 1: this guy. And he actually didn't introduce Tim to me
Speaker 1: for work. It was really for us to just hang out.
Speaker 1: And so I went to Tim's house and he was
Speaker 1: a j He didn't even understand his gift that he had,
Speaker 1: and when I got there, he was just you know,
Speaker 1: scratching and stuff. He was dope as a DJ too,
Speaker 1: And then he started He had a little Cassio keyboard
Speaker 1: and he started playing on the Cassio keyboard and I
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember Cassio's back then they had
Speaker 1: the little dog sounds, and this is where I believe
Speaker 1: all of this sounds came from in the songs, because
Speaker 1: the Cassio had those like front and me just like
Speaker 1: animal sounds, and he found a genius way to make
Speaker 1: beats with that stuff in it. And he really at
Speaker 1: the time wasn't calling himself a producer at all. And
Speaker 1: he one day he was just doing a beat on
Speaker 1: the cassio and I started rapping, and he was like, Yo,
Speaker 1: that's crazy. And I remember all of us being in
Speaker 1: the room and it's just going just rapping. I went
Speaker 1: from rapping and singing, rapping and singing, and he just
Speaker 1: kept doing beats and then McGoo would come in and
Speaker 1: we was having a cipher and you know, we just
Speaker 1: this was something that this was our pastime. Yeah, at
Speaker 1: the time, we didn't think, oh, we're gonna go on
Speaker 1: to make records. We just was having fun. And every
Speaker 1: day after school, me and McGoo would get together and
Speaker 1: we started going to Tim's house and just started doing
Speaker 1: records and we were recording from tape that to take that.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember how people recording like
Speaker 1: that until the song sounded real fuzzy and muffled, But yeah,
Speaker 1: we was recording like that. Yes, yes, So if people
Speaker 1: don't people don't don't under the artists these days, They
Speaker 1: they don't realize how good they got it. I said,
Speaker 1: I have these reels in my house and I'm trying
Speaker 1: to get them converted over And I say, these artists
Speaker 1: don't even realize these reels, what these reels was like,
Speaker 1: cutting them and all the stuff is crazy. It's funny
Speaker 1: now looking back, like it's easy now. But there was
Speaker 1: something about the limitations that we had back them that
Speaker 1: forced us to make more interesting things, you know, just
Speaker 1: forced forced you to be creative. Yes, absolutely, because when
Speaker 1: you think about those reels, when you think about tape
Speaker 1: recording from tape that, the tape that like I always
Speaker 1: wonder who came up with that? Like who thought to
Speaker 1: do that? And to be able to I was able
Speaker 1: to put harmonies that way without us even having a studio.
Speaker 1: It's so crazy. And you've worked with Tim from the
Speaker 1: beginning throughout your career pretty much. Yes, oh yeah, from
Speaker 1: that day, that first day of going to Tim's house,
Speaker 1: and his dad hated when that doorbell would ring because
Speaker 1: his dad, I think, drove trucks and so he would
Speaker 1: be driving late at night and he would just be fussing,
Speaker 1: like y'all got the go, y'all gotta get out of it,
Speaker 1: making all that boom bab I got to drive like
Speaker 1: he would be fussing us out, but we we were
Speaker 1: so and we were so intrigued. It's so crazy when
Speaker 1: I tell you, I think back to just the beginning,
Speaker 1: like the first song that I ever heard, because I
Speaker 1: heard him. I've seen an interview with him not too
Speaker 1: long ago, and he was like, you know, Missy taught
Speaker 1: me so much. And it's funny because I learned so
Speaker 1: much just from the first song. I remember Donna Summer
Speaker 1: Last Dance, and and I said, at a young age,
Speaker 1: I was so intrigued at the structure of that record,
Speaker 1: and like, I was like, what made her start this slow? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it starts slow and then it turns into a dance
Speaker 1: song and you're not expecting it to turn into a
Speaker 1: dance song. Yeah, Like and I and at a young age,
Speaker 1: that intrigued me that I hadn't heard a record do that.
Speaker 1: And till this day, that is a structure that I
Speaker 1: always say. It was just so amazing to me. That
Speaker 1: was the first record that caught my attention. So I
Speaker 1: always gravitated to things that probably people wouldn't have paid
Speaker 1: attention to. But then when we by the time I
Speaker 1: met Tim and we started getting into hip hop really crazy. Well,
Speaker 1: I was in the hip hop before I met Tim,
Speaker 1: because you know, I'm quite sure he was into it too.
Speaker 1: Round junior high school, we were you know, in the
Speaker 1: UTFO Run DMC days. But by that time we was
Speaker 1: in the Public Enemy when I met Tim, and everything
Speaker 1: was Chuck d like and play, everything was yeah boy,
Speaker 1: And we would just sit and listen to the eight
Speaker 1: oh eights and stuff that they would have in their records,
Speaker 1: in the breakbeats that they would use in Public Enemy records,
Speaker 1: and we were just always so so amazed. Then, you know,
Speaker 1: we were most definitely in the tribe. And I always
Speaker 1: used to say, Magoo, you sound just like Q Tip.
Speaker 1: Everybody tell me that. So those days really shaped us
Speaker 1: to just in in the whole hip hop culture. Like
Speaker 1: we were so heavy, heavy, heavy heavy into it. We'll
Speaker 1: be right back after the break with more from Missy
Speaker 1: Elliott and Rick Rubin. We're back with more from Missy Elliott.
Speaker 1: Tell me about Tim as a person, Tim timber Lad.
Speaker 1: First he was DJ Timmy Timber So he was so quiet,
Speaker 1: a quiet genius. And what I always say about Tim
Speaker 1: Ann for real just amazed me in two different ways.
Speaker 1: Tim because he didn't play. He went off a feeling
Speaker 1: when he created music. Somebody that went to school probably
Speaker 1: would technically say these sounds put together are wrong, this
Speaker 1: is not in the correct key. But he because he
Speaker 1: went off a feeling if it was right, it was wrong,
Speaker 1: but it was right and it was new and it
Speaker 1: was new. Yeah, and you know, we really showed people
Speaker 1: how to wrap and sing over a catenance that hadn't
Speaker 1: existed before us. That cadence was so off two people.
Speaker 1: I remember One in a Million was hard to get
Speaker 1: played because they were saying a lot of people were
Speaker 1: saying a lot of the program directors were saying that
Speaker 1: they couldn't mix it in or blend it in with
Speaker 1: the record before it or after because of the rhythm
Speaker 1: of it. And it was weird because although it was
Speaker 1: so slow, it still made you bounce in the weirdest way.
Speaker 1: Like all the songs that we did just had this bounce,
Speaker 1: even if they were slow records. So I think that's
Speaker 1: the genius in that is that sometimes it's not just
Speaker 1: about just being technical, because I've had people who are
Speaker 1: amazing technically, but the feeling is not there. And so
Speaker 1: that's why I think Tim was always so great at
Speaker 1: what he did because he went off a feeling it
Speaker 1: felt right. It's amazing that there was a time that
Speaker 1: that was too unusual to you know, to go on
Speaker 1: the radio when it had so much of an effect
Speaker 1: in all music that came after it. Tell me the
Speaker 1: story of that song from the beginning. First time you
Speaker 1: heard the beat. I was out working with seven or
Speaker 1: two and Tim called me and was like, hey, you know,
Speaker 1: we got this opportunity to do something on Aliyah. Now
Speaker 1: you know, we still knew like nobody really knows who
Speaker 1: we are. So when me and Tim got together, I'm like, Tim,
Speaker 1: you know what we're gonna do because she was already
Speaker 1: a superstar, So I'm like, Yo, let's just give her
Speaker 1: our old sound. Nobody never heard it, so it'll be
Speaker 1: like a new sound because we that sound was probably
Speaker 1: four years old to us, wow, because we had been
Speaker 1: signed and no, you know, we the stuff didn't come out,
Speaker 1: so we have been on that way, that that whole rhythm,
Speaker 1: and I said, let's just give her that. So Tim
Speaker 1: was like you show him? Like yeah, like dude, that
Speaker 1: you know, we were still in a place of we
Speaker 1: didn't know what was hot or not all we knew
Speaker 1: was what we did. Yeah, you know this, this this
Speaker 1: is hot, not knowing it was really hot, but it
Speaker 1: was hot to us because that's all we had been
Speaker 1: hearing the song. The song was already written. I mean
Speaker 1: I played it for after I had demo the vocals,
Speaker 1: so because that's me at the again and saying love,
Speaker 1: love you baby, Me and Tim went in and recorded
Speaker 1: it and then I played her you know, the version
Speaker 1: with my vocals on it, and she loved it and
Speaker 1: she got it immediately, which when I think about it,
Speaker 1: it just shows that she was aligned with us musically anyway,
Speaker 1: because we had to show people how to sing and
Speaker 1: wrap over something that, like I said, that hadn't existed before.
Speaker 1: People didn't know where to place this music. They didn't
Speaker 1: know whether to go to the R and B and
Speaker 1: hip hop or to the pop. They didn't know where
Speaker 1: to place it. But she got it immediately. But that
Speaker 1: actually wasn't the first record that she did. The first
Speaker 1: record she did was if Your Girl Only Knew And
Speaker 1: even for her to get that record and it went
Speaker 1: were only supposed to do one record on Aliah, and
Speaker 1: it went from one to two to three to four
Speaker 1: to five, like it just kept going Wow. And she
Speaker 1: took a chance because she was Aliah already to the world,
Speaker 1: you know, she had the chance to be able to
Speaker 1: work with any major producer out there. And here we
Speaker 1: were two young kids coming in with nothing really under
Speaker 1: our belts, and she just was like, I love what
Speaker 1: y'all doing. And she just kept recording each record that
Speaker 1: we would do. She be like, I want that one,
Speaker 1: I want that one. Yeah, I love that, and she
Speaker 1: did it. Typically when you would write for someone else,
Speaker 1: would it typically happen like that you would write it
Speaker 1: through a demo of the whole song and then present
Speaker 1: it to the artist or was it ever more collaborative
Speaker 1: than that. No. I always wrote it and always demoed it,
Speaker 1: and then I started as time went on, I started
Speaker 1: to get I would write it and then I would
Speaker 1: get Jasmine or Tweet or somebody to demo for me.
Speaker 1: But actually, the one person I did have demo early
Speaker 1: on on one song was Gina Thompson. She demoed I
Speaker 1: Care for You for Aliah. But yeah, I would just
Speaker 1: go in there and write the songs and then demo it.
Speaker 1: And then I was not like I didn't I didn't
Speaker 1: consider myself like a singer. Singer like that, I wasn't
Speaker 1: giving you no Whitney Houston notes, and so by me
Speaker 1: not being a singer, I would just kind of rap singing.
Speaker 1: That's how if you listen to one in a million,
Speaker 1: it's like rap singing because I wasn't a person who
Speaker 1: could do all of those runs and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So I would just rap sing songs and it just
Speaker 1: ended up being a new kind of rhythm too. Have
Speaker 1: you ever written a song for someone else? Have they
Speaker 1: not do it and then you end up doing it yourself?
Speaker 1: Has it ever happened? No, I've never written a song
Speaker 1: for someone else and then I ended up doing it.
Speaker 1: I always ended up giving it to someone else. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Because for me, I'm so critical on myself. Like that's
Speaker 1: probably been the hardest thing for me is once I
Speaker 1: do it for the artists, I have them in mind
Speaker 1: or an artist in mind, and not me, because I
Speaker 1: know when I do stuff for myself, it's always like
Speaker 1: some weird and crazy stuff. So I know that those
Speaker 1: artists probably be like, oh nah, you bugging. So I've
Speaker 1: never taken a record that I had for somebody else
Speaker 1: and use it on myself. So when you say critical
Speaker 1: of yourself in that way. Let's let's I want to
Speaker 1: understand it better. Is it that the song's not good
Speaker 1: enough for you, or that it doesn't suit your personality,
Speaker 1: or if there's a song that you think is great
Speaker 1: but that it's not right for you that you wrote.
Speaker 1: What's the thought process? Well? Me, as the artist, I
Speaker 1: do stuff so differently for myself that a lot of
Speaker 1: times it's so like out there, I couldn't imagine you know,
Speaker 1: somebody else saying, uh, don't don't. Don't you know I
Speaker 1: could something I said and working. I couldn't imagine somebody
Speaker 1: else saying some of the stuff that that I've said,
Speaker 1: not to say they wouldn't, but I just know like
Speaker 1: stuff that is more suitable for me. So when I
Speaker 1: do those records, they're more tamed down than what I
Speaker 1: would do for myself, because for myself, I'm taking a chance.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, you know, I'm gonna say whatever. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say she's a bit, I'm gonna say pussy
Speaker 1: don't fail me now and sing it. And you know,
Speaker 1: these artists will probably be like now, Missy, I do
Speaker 1: many things, but that nah. So I'm just different as
Speaker 1: the artist yes, So your records tend to be more extreme,
Speaker 1: and you could say lyrically harder or more challenging or crazier.
Speaker 1: It wouldn't feel right to give someone else a song
Speaker 1: like that expecting them to do it. Yes, even to
Speaker 1: this day, like it's a few artists that probably would
Speaker 1: do it's just because I say, yo, I'm telling you
Speaker 1: it's gonna go. It's hot. But for the most part,
Speaker 1: I'm taking more of a risk on myself. So those
Speaker 1: records that I do for other artists, once I do them,
Speaker 1: I just say, hey, this will go to somebody, but
Speaker 1: just not me. Who was the first artist that you
Speaker 1: or the first group of artists that you looked up
Speaker 1: to and felt like, this is my inspiration, this is
Speaker 1: what I want to do. Who were the people that
Speaker 1: got you to want to do it? Oh, so many artists.
Speaker 1: The gospel I would have to say to Clark's sisters,
Speaker 1: as far as R and B, Prince, Michael Janet. When
Speaker 1: you come to you know, hip hop, I would go
Speaker 1: back to Rock, Sand Queen, Latifa, Light, Salt and Pepper.
Speaker 1: The reason I started rapping l L. Big Daddy King,
Speaker 1: Public Enemy Mony all you know, all of the hip
Speaker 1: hop mothers and fathers of this thing. I would say,
Speaker 1: to be honest, like the whole nineties for me, early
Speaker 1: nineties really just like inspired me. But the eighties also
Speaker 1: because I feel like the eighties people were experimental with music.
Speaker 1: But Salt and Pepper is the reason that I started rapping.
Speaker 1: They are most definitely the reason. We have to take
Speaker 1: a quick break, but we'll be right back with more
Speaker 1: from Missy Elliott and Rick Rubin. We're back with the
Speaker 1: rest of Rick Rubin's conversation with Missy Elliott. Tell me
Speaker 1: about your writing process. How does it start? What's the
Speaker 1: first thing that happens my writing process. A lot of
Speaker 1: times I could be riding down the street thinking of
Speaker 1: something I listened to a lot of my friends problems.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm just sitting and listening to a conversation and
Speaker 1: just pick up ideas and listen to what they going through.
Speaker 1: And then I'll get a track. And sometimes I'll already
Speaker 1: sing melodies in my now that I you know, we
Speaker 1: can do that on our phones. I'll sing melodies on
Speaker 1: my note thing on my phone before there's even to beat. Yes,
Speaker 1: And then once I get a track, you know, I
Speaker 1: can adjust it to whatever track it is. Once I
Speaker 1: have the words and somewhat of a melody, I can
Speaker 1: adjust it to what ever track. Is it all about
Speaker 1: the words or could it be about the phrasing or
Speaker 1: the melody? Oh, sometimes it's depending on what the vibe is. Sometimes,
Speaker 1: you know, music, you may hear a track, and I
Speaker 1: believe music speaks to you, you know, and kind of
Speaker 1: tells you. You can hear a record, and you may
Speaker 1: hear a track and to say, oh, these sounds like
Speaker 1: sound like sexy chords and make you want to, you know,
Speaker 1: sing a song about sex. Or you may hear a
Speaker 1: song and it sounds like a motivational chords. I believe
Speaker 1: chords really do give you a place of feeling. But
Speaker 1: a lot of times when I'm just walking, sometimes I
Speaker 1: walk in the mountain and I'll just think of a melody.
Speaker 1: So the melody for me a lot of times be first,
Speaker 1: because I sometimes I'll get get on the mic and
Speaker 1: I'll just hum some stuff and then the lyrics account
Speaker 1: I honestly was like I had to just do an
Speaker 1: album where I'm just humming a bunch of gibberish just
Speaker 1: to show this is how most people. A lot of
Speaker 1: people create that way. Have you ever written a song
Speaker 1: with another person, like sitting together looking at each other
Speaker 1: and writing a song together, or it's always each person
Speaker 1: does their own thing. Last year was the first time
Speaker 1: in my whole career that I have collapsed with a writer.
Speaker 1: I have written every last one of minds, every last
Speaker 1: one of anybody else's I've done, and at some point,
Speaker 1: you know, you just feel like, hey, it's good to
Speaker 1: just have a some freshness come in. You can't. At
Speaker 1: ninety years old, I'm still talking about to write Unfender
Speaker 1: right for Cardivfenna, right for for for Beyonce. Like you
Speaker 1: gotta know when when it's like okay, it's okay, you know,
Speaker 1: to bring in help because I've I've done this, well
Speaker 1: another five years it to be thirty years. Yeah, twenty
Speaker 1: five is a good number. Twenty five is a great number.
Speaker 1: And congratulations on the anniversary of the first solo album.
Speaker 1: That's an incredible milestone. Uh and and a funny thing
Speaker 1: when I tell you that album. We did that album
Speaker 1: in two weeks, and we did it because I wanted
Speaker 1: to have my own record label so bad. And Sylvia
Speaker 1: Rone said, the only way that I'll give you a
Speaker 1: record label is if you give me an album, give
Speaker 1: me one album. And I was like, Tim, come on,
Speaker 1: let's get her to album so I can get this label.
Speaker 1: So we did it out of like hurrying up, like
Speaker 1: I really wanted the label so bad, and because at
Speaker 1: that time, I remember I had left and went back home,
Speaker 1: so I didn't want to be an artist anymore. And
Speaker 1: so we did it so quick. It was two weeks
Speaker 1: and I was like here and from that album it
Speaker 1: went on to the next album, the next album, the
Speaker 1: next album. But initially it was just like I just
Speaker 1: wanted the label. So that's how that album came about.
Speaker 1: Fasten it. So in some ways, when you took a
Speaker 1: break in two thousand and five, it's almost like you
Speaker 1: that's how you wanted it to be from the beginning,
Speaker 1: and then just other stuff happened. Yeah, that's amazing, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: I love doing both, but I'm very shy it hall
Speaker 1: though it may not seem like it because I get
Speaker 1: to talking, but I'm very shy. So so people have
Speaker 1: to understand, like I started it in a group, so
Speaker 1: to go from a group to a solo artists, you
Speaker 1: have to mentally already know that that's what you wanted
Speaker 1: to do, and that's not something that I came in
Speaker 1: this thing thinking. So I ended up being a solo
Speaker 1: artist and everything you feel like everything is on you.
Speaker 1: Now you don't have you know, other people that you
Speaker 1: could talk to when things go crazy. And then you know,
Speaker 1: the second album became more stressful the first album. I
Speaker 1: always tell people, you are at your most vulnerable, like
Speaker 1: you know, you don't care is you don't have nothing
Speaker 1: to compare it to. It's that second album that is
Speaker 1: going to give you that headache because if your first
Speaker 1: album is successful, then you're chasing trying to find the
Speaker 1: success of whatever records you put out that made that
Speaker 1: album go. You're trying to find that same style for
Speaker 1: that second album, and it just feel like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: like nothing is right. And I didn't even appreciate my
Speaker 1: second album until later and realized that actually that album
Speaker 1: was a masterpiece because we used a lot of theatrical
Speaker 1: loops and stuff in that album mixed with hip hop.
Speaker 1: But I didn't I at that time. It was just
Speaker 1: like that was that was a had to think that
Speaker 1: second album because it's scary. You know, it is a
Speaker 1: thing called sophomore jinks. Yeah, for sure, I didn't want
Speaker 1: to be an artist, but now I'm in it, and
Speaker 1: so now I gotta make sure I don't fail the
Speaker 1: second album. So that was hard, but it worked out. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it most definitely, most definitely worked out. By the time
Speaker 1: my third album, we was having fun again. But I
Speaker 1: remember the third album we were finished where I didn't
Speaker 1: think we were finished, and him, he was like, I'm
Speaker 1: telling you, this album is solid. I was like, na,
Speaker 1: something is missing and he was like, man, he was.
Speaker 1: So he was so mad at me because I say, no,
Speaker 1: something is missing. So I say, just see what else
Speaker 1: you got in the keyboard. So he got on the
Speaker 1: ASR ten and he started going down a thing and
Speaker 1: he hit hit one of the things and it was
Speaker 1: like dud. And I'm like, yo, that was it. And
Speaker 1: he was like what because now he going so fast
Speaker 1: up and down the keyboard he can't find it no more.
Speaker 1: So now he even more mad because I'm like, yo,
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, I know what I heard. So he
Speaker 1: hitting the keyboard all hard because he ready to go
Speaker 1: like He's like, what it ain't in here? I don't
Speaker 1: know what you're talking about. So he finally hits it
Speaker 1: again and I'm like that, and I'm like, that joint
Speaker 1: is crazy. So when I rapped on it, it was
Speaker 1: only that sound and a kick. Wow, Because that's how
Speaker 1: tim A lot of times we would do stuff. He
Speaker 1: would you know, it would just be like one sound
Speaker 1: and a kick, and then after I finished rapping, he
Speaker 1: would go and place all the other things around it,
Speaker 1: and so that's where you got all the spacey noise
Speaker 1: and stuff so good. That was a really common practice
Speaker 1: in the early days of hip hop to leave a
Speaker 1: really long instrumental at the end so that other people
Speaker 1: could wrap over it themselves. Yeah, and you know, just
Speaker 1: me sitting there listening actually to it just speaks to
Speaker 1: the genius in Timberline too. Again is the fact that
Speaker 1: he would make hip hop those records. He would treat
Speaker 1: them like R and B records if you really like
Speaker 1: when you get a chance to go back and listen,
Speaker 1: he was placing strings in different sounds. He was having
Speaker 1: a separation. It wasn't just a flat beat straight through,
Speaker 1: so he would add different sounds, Like every four bars
Speaker 1: he would put in another sound. When the hooks came,
Speaker 1: it would be strings. And he would do that to
Speaker 1: a lot of his records. Absolutely, they never get boring.
Speaker 1: You never just get used to the groove. It always
Speaker 1: feels like even if you're not paying attention. Like it
Speaker 1: really became clear after the vocals, all the changes that
Speaker 1: were going on in the music, because they're subtle, you know,
Speaker 1: they don't make you listen to them, but they have
Speaker 1: an effect on your subconscious that it feels like it's
Speaker 1: always evolving, it's always new. Yeah, especially when yeah, when
Speaker 1: you get to that that end and you see how
Speaker 1: he starts to break it down. That's I always say
Speaker 1: that too in that record, Is that your chick? He
Speaker 1: does that heavily in there too, But most of the
Speaker 1: records he did that. So when just listening now because
Speaker 1: I never like listen to the end, made me just
Speaker 1: realize he treated those records like you would treat R
Speaker 1: and B record. Would you say that spirituality plays a
Speaker 1: role in your music, Oh, spirituality plays a role in
Speaker 1: Missy period. In this industry, If I didn't have some
Speaker 1: kind of spiritual connection, I don't know how I could
Speaker 1: have made it. You know, in this in this industry,
Speaker 1: a lot of artists come in, uh, just thinking it's
Speaker 1: going to be You're gonna make a lot of money.
Speaker 1: You're gonna be famous. You know, you're gonna be hot
Speaker 1: forever in all of these different things. You know, that's
Speaker 1: that's what you come in thinking, and then you realize, oh,
Speaker 1: you've been duped. You know. I always tell people you
Speaker 1: will you you won't be hot forever. You can always
Speaker 1: have respect, though, because it will come a time where
Speaker 1: even the hottest of the hottest won't be sitting at
Speaker 1: the top of the charts anymore. But you the impact
Speaker 1: and respect will always be there. But spiritually you have
Speaker 1: to have some you know. For me, I feel like
Speaker 1: I had to have some kind of connection because when
Speaker 1: those times come, of those ups and downs like that,
Speaker 1: you have to be able to you know, I come
Speaker 1: from a praying family, so being that, I feel like
Speaker 1: God gonna work it out. If I didn't have that,
Speaker 1: I don't know how I would be able to manage.
Speaker 1: Because there has been way ups and then there has
Speaker 1: been way downs. And that's a lot, especially if you're
Speaker 1: coming from way up, you know, and a lot of artists.
Speaker 1: People don't prepare artists for that, and that's you know
Speaker 1: a lot of times where you may get a lot
Speaker 1: of artists deal with mental health issues because they came
Speaker 1: in and nobody prepared them for those different ups and downs,
Speaker 1: regardless of what's hot and what's not hot, and or
Speaker 1: even doing it professionally. Do you feel like on any
Speaker 1: given day you could write a song that you would love,
Speaker 1: you could always do that. Is that something that you
Speaker 1: feel confident in or is that moving target? Would you say, Oh,
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm gonna always make some joints that
Speaker 1: I love. That's you know, I always feel like that
Speaker 1: that that I haven't wavered from. Now whether the people
Speaker 1: feel the same, if a whole another you know, you
Speaker 1: just don't know. That's the problem. They just might not
Speaker 1: know exactly. Yeah, you know, you don't know what the
Speaker 1: people will will feel. But I always say I'd rather
Speaker 1: do something that I believe in and if it don't work,
Speaker 1: then I can still sleep good, opposed to do something
Speaker 1: that let's say, if the label say hey, this is
Speaker 1: the one and I don't feel like that, and then
Speaker 1: it don't work and I'm kicking myself in the ass
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life. So you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of times, if I do something and if it
Speaker 1: don't work, I'll just be like, hey, maybe this you know,
Speaker 1: I do understand and not to be bragging, but some
Speaker 1: people are ahead, and I do understand that some things
Speaker 1: may be ahead. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's part of what
Speaker 1: makes you you, and that's why you're in the role
Speaker 1: that you're in, and that's why you You were very
Speaker 1: early in the movement and you just you felt it early. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure not everybody felt it at the time that
Speaker 1: you felt it. Oh absolutely not. I remember like when
Speaker 1: I did She's a Bitch, And remember Puff hitting me
Speaker 1: like money, what are you doing? When he's seen that
Speaker 1: ball ahead? He was like, what your money? What are
Speaker 1: you doing? So so you know, at that time, we
Speaker 1: didn't even think like, like the way we are now,
Speaker 1: we're probably more open to just playing stuff and seeing
Speaker 1: what people think. We didn't do that. Then we came
Speaker 1: in saying, okay, this is gonna be the first single
Speaker 1: and then we're gonna come with this. We we wasn't
Speaker 1: playing it for somebody to tell us if it was
Speaker 1: hot or not. We was playing it because we thought
Speaker 1: it was hot, exactly. And as time went on, your
Speaker 1: confidence can either build or you know, it could stagger,
Speaker 1: or it could just go to nothing. And I think
Speaker 1: as time went on, we probably started to ask people.
Speaker 1: But then I got to a point that I'm just like, nah,
Speaker 1: I just want to do music that feels good to me,
Speaker 1: and I've done it, you know, just like you, you
Speaker 1: are legendary, legendary at this point, you're probably doing it
Speaker 1: like I'm just having fun. There was a time where
Speaker 1: you may have felt like you was concentrating on making
Speaker 1: this kind of music or timeless, or you're not even
Speaker 1: thinking like that now, like i'd improve myself what I'm
Speaker 1: having fun. I'm going to take two spoons and hit
Speaker 1: on this trash can and throw this out because it
Speaker 1: feels good to me right now. While you you have
Speaker 1: proven yourself time and time again. And what's the use
Speaker 1: of doing music if you can't have fun with it? Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I've always tried to make music that I like and
Speaker 1: never question what anyone else is going to think, because
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't imagine what anyone else is gonna think.
Speaker 1: And at least if I'm true to what I like,
Speaker 1: at least I know some one person likes it. You know,
Speaker 1: It's better than making something that maybe nobody likes like
Speaker 1: I'm making the things that I like and I care
Speaker 1: about that. That's all I could do absolutely. I said,
Speaker 1: just think if there was one person in the room,
Speaker 1: if I always say Michael and Quincy or whoever else
Speaker 1: was in that room when they were creating thriller, they
Speaker 1: all had to be aligned in the same space because
Speaker 1: if one person had been like, what is close to midnight?
Speaker 1: Some evil is? What kind of song is this? It
Speaker 1: could have threw them all the way off and made
Speaker 1: them trash that record. But they was all aligned in
Speaker 1: that room where they had to be like visually, they
Speaker 1: was in the same place. I see it, I hear it.
Speaker 1: This is gonna be huge. And those are the type
Speaker 1: of people that I try to, you know, keep around,
Speaker 1: not just yes ma'am people. You know, if it's something
Speaker 1: that is truly whack, I want my friends to be
Speaker 1: like yo, absolutely absolutely, Otherwise you're living in a world
Speaker 1: of not reality, Like you have no idea. It's like,
Speaker 1: I want to make something that I like it. If
Speaker 1: someone else doesn't like it, it's cool, but I want
Speaker 1: to know if they don't like it. It's just so
Speaker 1: I understand the world, you know, right right? But yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you're such a legend and people dream to
Speaker 1: get to that place, and you have an impeccable ear.
Speaker 1: So I know that. You know, when when you have
Speaker 1: an ear like that, you would have to be one
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty for anybody to be like, nah, if
Speaker 1: you was to say even at ninety, you'll be like, nah,
Speaker 1: that ain't it. I'm gonna believe me. But I feel
Speaker 1: I feel like you're exactly the same. We've both been
Speaker 1: doing it long enough where we you know, it's like
Speaker 1: it's obvious, we know what we're doing. It's okay. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I almost definitely probably had a few producers mad at
Speaker 1: me when I'd be like, Nah, that ain't it. That
Speaker 1: means that means you care and you're honest, you know,
Speaker 1: like that's your That's part of the job too. It's
Speaker 1: not just going along with it. Yeah, you know, especially
Speaker 1: in this time when you've been around for so long.
Speaker 1: But then you you may get some young, younger ones
Speaker 1: that come in and be like, nah, you don't know
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. This, I'm telling you this, This
Speaker 1: what everybody listened to. And that's the That's the great
Speaker 1: thing about I think what we have done is we
Speaker 1: created something in yourself that hadn't been done, and so
Speaker 1: you are in a position to be able to say
Speaker 1: that because you wasn't following what everybody else was doing.
Speaker 1: And if you can teach any upcoming producers like hey,
Speaker 1: you know you stand out because at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, you don't want it to be five of you's,
Speaker 1: because they if you got five of you's, then most
Speaker 1: of the time the label gonna go with the cheapest
Speaker 1: one anyway, So you you better hope you the cheap
Speaker 1: one because otherwise you're not gonna be picked like you.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be easy for them to go with the
Speaker 1: one that is, you know, popping right now. So you
Speaker 1: better off just trying to do something that will be
Speaker 1: game changing and game changing. You don't get a lot
Speaker 1: of those, like you can count those. It ain't a
Speaker 1: lot of game changes, It's true. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for speaking to me. This was beautiful. I thank you
Speaker 1: and hopefully we will see each other. But it's been
Speaker 1: fun and I appreciate you. Just know that you are
Speaker 1: legendary and will continue to be and it was an
Speaker 1: honor speaking to you. If the honor is all mine,
Speaker 1: thank you so much, and we speak soon and hopefully
Speaker 1: I get to see you and give you a big
Speaker 1: hug and thank you for personally, Yes, well, you enjoy
Speaker 1: yourself and be safe out there. Thanks to Missy Elliott
Speaker 1: for talking through her career with Rick and sharing insight
Speaker 1: into her creative process. You can hear all of the
Speaker 1: songs mentioned in this episode, along with the rest of
Speaker 1: her now twenty five year old album Super Duper Fly,
Speaker 1: on a playlist at broken record podcast dot com. Next week,
Speaker 1: we kick off a month long slate of interviews Rick
Speaker 1: Rubin did with the Red Hot Chili Peppers to commemorate
Speaker 1: the release of their newest album, Unlimited Love. This is
Speaker 1: the Peppers like you've never heard them before, and trust me,
Speaker 1: you don't want to miss it. The first episode comes
Speaker 1: out Friday, April first, the same day as the album.
Speaker 1: Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube
Speaker 1: dot com slash broken record Podcast, where you can find
Speaker 1: all of our new episodes. You can follow us on
Speaker 1: Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced of help
Speaker 1: from Lea Rose, Jason Gambrell, Ben Holiday, Eric Sandler, and
Speaker 1: Jennifer Sanchez. Our executive producer is Melobell. Broken Record is
Speaker 1: a production of Pushkin Industries. If you like this show
Speaker 1: and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to pushkin Plus. Pushkin
Speaker 1: Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content an
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Speaker 1: Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions, and if
Speaker 1: you'd like the show, please remember to share, rate, and
Speaker 1: review us on your podcast app. Our theme music, spect
Speaker 1: Anny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.