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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Margaret phil Joy. Sophie says that I

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Speaker 1: have to start each episode with a joke in order

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Speaker 1: to be part of the Cool Zone Media network of podcasts. Yeah, so, okay,

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Speaker 1: let me tell you. I remember that detail of my

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Speaker 1: contracts because I've got a photographic memory. It's just that

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Speaker 1: i left the lens cap on bump. That's my joke. Okay.

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Speaker 1: And today we've got a returning guest, the one and

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Speaker 1: only Sharene Sharne. How are you hi, I'm okay, Hi,

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Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Yeah, what do you? What do

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Speaker 1: you do? How do you justify your existence? That's a

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Speaker 1: hard question for me to answer right now. I've been

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Speaker 1: going through a very extended existential crisis, like extended by

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Speaker 1: like years. Uh oh, Now I feel guilty. It's fine.

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Speaker 1: I should know at this point how to answer that

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Speaker 1: after all this time. But I uh, I make stuff

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Speaker 1: and try every day to stay alive. But yeah, I've

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Speaker 1: I write and wrecked and I can't say that I've

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Speaker 1: done that in a while though. So there's what. There's

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Speaker 1: what the imposter syndrome comes in. But you're not asking

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Speaker 1: me all these questions. This is not therapy. I do

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Speaker 1: need therapists and want to shut up. Yeah, hotly, I

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Speaker 1: was trying to get you to talk about your podcast

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Speaker 1: really quickly. Oh my podcast. I do co host a

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Speaker 1: podcast called Ethnically Ambiguous. It's uh, it's evolved over the years.

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Speaker 1: It used to be about news, and we do a

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Speaker 1: lot of guests in tributes now because the news hurts.

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Speaker 1: That's true. Yeah, Sophie is our producer and is on

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Speaker 1: the line too. How are you, Sophy? It's just Sophie.

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Speaker 1: As we established ahead of this podcast, we do believe

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Speaker 1: I have been cursed. So, um, if if you're listening

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Speaker 1: and you are the one who did that, how dare you?

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Speaker 1: How dare you? And I believe we could probably do

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Speaker 1: like a Peter Pan thing where if everyone starts clapping

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Speaker 1: and says I believe and Sophie, then that will help

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Speaker 1: lift Sophie's curse. If everyone who listens to this does that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: please let me know or if you know how to

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Speaker 1: lift a curse? Um, you know? Yeah? Thanks Ian as

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Speaker 1: our editor and on women wrote our theme music. So

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Speaker 1: Sharine Margaret, I want to talk to you today about

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Speaker 1: that sacred bond between two people the bond of marriage. No,

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Speaker 1: in particular, we're going to talk about the most important

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Speaker 1: part of any successful marriage, which is to say, today

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about women who have murdered their husbands. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's better, Okay, cool, I'm doubt. I'm doubt. I'm doubt.

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Speaker 1: I like that twist. I told Serene that we we

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Speaker 1: picked this episode specifically for her, so it would have

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Speaker 1: been particularly cruel. Yeah, yeah, I do. I mean the

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Speaker 1: context behind that is that I do not like marriage,

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Speaker 1: and that's all you need to know. Like, oh great, Well,

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Speaker 1: today we are going to talk about a multi generational

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Speaker 1: crew of which is roughly we'll call them, which is

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Speaker 1: in seventeenth century Rome, who sold poison to anywhere between

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Speaker 1: forty six and six women so that those women could

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Speaker 1: murder their abuse of husbands during an arrow. And I

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Speaker 1: know this is during an arrow where divorced wasn't a

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Speaker 1: thing and where women were basically the legal property of men.

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Speaker 1: And we're also going to talk about the the real

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Speaker 1: and yet also mythical concoction that they came up with

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Speaker 1: called aqua to fauna. And along the way, we're going

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Speaker 1: o to also talk about skincare routines like bathing in

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Speaker 1: the Blood of innocence. I do love skincare. All right, well,

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Speaker 1: this is some good stuff for you today. So everyone

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Speaker 1: buckle up for the How to Kill Your Husband episode,

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Speaker 1: which we're going to call the how to Kill your Husband.

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Speaker 1: We're just gonna call it how to Kill your Husband

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Speaker 1: and see if we get in trouble. M cool. Cool,

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Speaker 1: So first we have to talk about whenever we talk

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Speaker 1: about the cool things people did, we have to talk

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Speaker 1: about the bad things that they're going against. Right, So

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Speaker 1: marriage m hm, the history of marriage in Europe, really

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Speaker 1: anywhere that's been controlled by Catholicism or even more importantly, patriarchy.

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Speaker 1: But the research I did for this episode was primarily

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Speaker 1: about Europe. It's dark as fun, it's so dark. The

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Speaker 1: history of marriage is so bad. Italy didn't legalize divorce

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Speaker 1: until nineteen seventy. What, Yeah, it was way late three

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Speaker 1: years ago. Yeah, No, it feels like thirty years ago. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it feels like yeah, you know what I mean, the

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Speaker 1: real ones now, okay, yeah, Spain didn't legalize it until what.

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Speaker 1: Ireland didn't legalize marriage until nine six. I was alive

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Speaker 1: in both of them. Wait, what was the second one,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm spring Chicken, but that was way to nineties

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Speaker 1: six and and the reason for I mean the reason

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Speaker 1: for those three is all Catholicism, but but Ireland in particular,

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Speaker 1: because they the Catholic Church that is very clever thing

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Speaker 1: where they position themselves as like the anti colonial choice

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Speaker 1: for the Irish rebels right against that damnable Protestant England.

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Speaker 1: And so when Ireland got it's like kind of independence,

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Speaker 1: the Catholic Church was like, hell, yeah, now you're free

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Speaker 1: from England and you can just serve the pope and

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Speaker 1: no one's allowed to enjoy sex anymore. Um, and kind

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Speaker 1: of instituted a theocracy, which is not what we're talking

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Speaker 1: about today. But I always want to get that off

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Speaker 1: my chest. Yeah, yeah, I I I don't like marriage

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Speaker 1: for a lot of reasons. One of them is that

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Speaker 1: it's usually really based in religion and control and it's

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Speaker 1: just become this archaic thing we've gotten used to in

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Speaker 1: my opinion. But um, that's just my two cents. Because

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Speaker 1: also not all of the hashtag all religions, Um, but

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Speaker 1: I'm not. I don't really believe in anything, but I

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Speaker 1: will say that in the Muslim faith, the woman keeps

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Speaker 1: her name because she's not necessary, because why would you

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Speaker 1: take your name if she's not related to you? Is

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Speaker 1: the logic behind that, Like she's not your sister, she's

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Speaker 1: not your mom, So she's going to keep her maiden

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Speaker 1: name or her just her name, and she can divorce

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Speaker 1: anytime she wants. Like it's in the it's in, it's allowed,

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Speaker 1: you know. So I'm not saying every religion is that way.

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Speaker 1: I think it's become. I think the institution of marriage

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Speaker 1: itself has become something really out of our control, regardless

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Speaker 1: of religion. Yeah, totally. I started trying to look up more,

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Speaker 1: you know, like I was looking up divorce in Islam,

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Speaker 1: and you know, finding overall a much better history than

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Speaker 1: divorce into various Christian faiths. Although ironically, the Puritans, who

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Speaker 1: hated sex and all this other ship, they were more

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Speaker 1: pro divorce then the Catholics. Maybe hating sex has something

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Speaker 1: to do with that, I wonder, Oh yeah, maybe, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're like, oh yeah, I get divorced, you can't funk anymore. Totally. Um, alright,

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Speaker 1: so divorce hard. In a lot of times in places

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Speaker 1: and a lot of places, men were allowed to divorce

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Speaker 1: their their wives but not vice versa. So like, because

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Speaker 1: the woman is property, the man can be like I'm

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Speaker 1: done with this property, but the property can't be like

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Speaker 1: I'm done with my owner, you know. M hmm makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah and yeah, so okay, throughout history you've got this

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Speaker 1: this ship that says wives of the legal property their husbands.

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Speaker 1: In medieval England it was called coverture, which means that

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Speaker 1: the wife's legal identity is subsumed by her husband's and

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Speaker 1: so an unmarried woman could own property, but a married

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Speaker 1: woman couldn't because if once you're married at all goes

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Speaker 1: to the husband. Wow, that is backwards as ship, I know.

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Speaker 1: So it's like, why the funk would anyone get married?

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Speaker 1: And mostly it's because of arranged marriages and being forced to.

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Speaker 1: So there wasn't any like benefit. There wasn't the excuse

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Speaker 1: of like tax breaks, right like back then, there wasn't

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Speaker 1: really like why wouldn't woman get married if she had

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Speaker 1: the choice? I you know, everything that I was reading

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Speaker 1: just basically had the like you kind of like couldn't.

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Speaker 1: It was very hard to Also in many ways it's

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Speaker 1: very hard to go through life as an unmarried woman.

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Speaker 1: And I think this, I think it does change like

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Speaker 1: century to century and like country to country, like exactly

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Speaker 1: how free people are kind of in the same way

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Speaker 1: that I feel like whenever I read about like historical gayness,

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Speaker 1: it's so different. It will be like twenty years of

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Speaker 1: awesome on this island and then everyone dies and that,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like and I feel like the rights

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Speaker 1: of women, um, as best as I can tell, in

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Speaker 1: medieval Europe would would fluctuate a lot. But I think

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Speaker 1: people were getting married because they're you're like fucking told to. Basically,

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Speaker 1: it's just like the path of life that was laid

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Speaker 1: out for you. Yeah. And I think you also literally

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Speaker 1: don't have a choice in a lot of cases. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so so English law does this thing. And there's

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Speaker 1: this problem where if English law does this thing, then

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Speaker 1: the rest of the fucking world's law does this thing.

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Speaker 1: Because I don't know if you knew this shream, but

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Speaker 1: England hasn't always stayed on its island, Oh really, has

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Speaker 1: it go other places? English people been places they don't belong. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, and they showed up as tourists and took

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Speaker 1: some pictures and went home and then um, for some

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Speaker 1: weird reason, when they showed up as tourists. All the

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Speaker 1: other countries swore allegiance to their monarchy and um anyway

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Speaker 1: with all colonization and ship their bullshit legal institutions get

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Speaker 1: inherited by legal systems all around the world, including the US.

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Speaker 1: And in the US all coverture wasn't really challenged until

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Speaker 1: the nineteenth century, and it lingers in legal codes today

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Speaker 1: still in various places, but state by state, each state

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Speaker 1: slowly got rid of coverture. Louisiana, I'm the stand in

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Speaker 1: for the dummies in the room. What is coverture? Oh? Sorry,

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Speaker 1: So that's the the idea that the wife's legal identity

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Speaker 1: is absumed by the husband. Okay, got it. And so

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's a little bit like because the wife

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Speaker 1: is the property, but it's a little bit like the

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Speaker 1: wife doesn't exist like legally, you know, it kind of disappears. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Louisiana was the last state to get rid of coverture. Nine.

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Speaker 1: They finally got rid of it and in the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court ruled it federally unconstitutional. And I'm currently I'm hoping

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Speaker 1: that the current Supreme Court is not listening to this

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Speaker 1: podcast at getting any ideas. Yes, I hope not, Sophie.

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Speaker 1: Can we add a legal disclaimer that anyone who is

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Speaker 1: currently serving on the Supreme Court or who determines what

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Speaker 1: cases are heard by the Supreme Court isn't allowed to

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Speaker 1: listen to this episode. I think you just did all right.

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Speaker 1: If you are listening and you are on the Supreme Court,

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Speaker 1: you have broken the law and you should report directly

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Speaker 1: to jail. Also, most of you fuck off. Yeah. Non

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Speaker 1: English conquered areas also managed to have similar ship because

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Speaker 1: of other like kind of internal colonization of Europe. You

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Speaker 1: have the Napoleonic Code which spread throughout Europe, which may

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Speaker 1: women the property of husbands as it went. Ironically, the

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Speaker 1: Napoleonic Code, I think also like spread legalization of homosexuality,

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Speaker 1: but it also spread anyway, makes bag double edged. French

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Speaker 1: women didn't get the right to work outside the home

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Speaker 1: without their husband's permission until nineteen wow, famously liberal or

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Speaker 1: I guess famously neutral. Switzerland didn't offer marriage equality until

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Speaker 1: with like a super narrow vote that is unsettling. I know,

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Speaker 1: it was like it was like fifty three or fifty

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Speaker 1: six percent of the population was like, yeah, let's let's

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Speaker 1: make women equal in marriage. Yeah, we're always just like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that place is fine, they're neutral, nothing bad happens over there.

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Speaker 1: They make pocket knives, yeah, exactly, and hide all the money. Okay. Um,

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Speaker 1: So in the US, women didn't have the right to

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Speaker 1: open credit card accounts, or rather, they could be denied

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Speaker 1: open credit card accounts if they don't have their husband's

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Speaker 1: permission or whatever until guess what year I mean at

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Speaker 1: this point Okay, well, well it was actually I kind

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Speaker 1: of set you up. I was really thinking the worst

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Speaker 1: of humanity, which is fine usually usually that's true. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In n seventy four, the Equal Credit Opportunity Act prevents

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Speaker 1: creditors from discriminating against people based on race, sex, or

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Speaker 1: marital status. And even then, the thing about sex and

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Speaker 1: marital status was literally slipped into the bill at the

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Speaker 1: last minute. There was a congress person named Lyndy Boggs

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Speaker 1: who hand wrote it onto the bill and made photo

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Speaker 1: copies to pass out and was like, oh, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: this was just an oversight that you made this Credit

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Speaker 1: Opportunity Act and didn't include women in marital status in it, right,

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Speaker 1: And they were like okay, fine, and they passed the bill. Wow.

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Speaker 1: Interesting critical support for someone I know nothing else about

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Speaker 1: bog BLUs. So most of the past thousand years or

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Speaker 1: so Western women again, at least Western women. That's what

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Speaker 1: I've looked at in the context of this particular episode

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Speaker 1: ship run of It. When it comes to marriage, there's

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Speaker 1: this essay that I think you Sharene would like. It's

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Speaker 1: from nineteen o seven and it's by Voltering Declaire, and

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Speaker 1: it's called those who marry do ill Oh yeah, that

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Speaker 1: sounds sick. Yeah, And it was a response to there

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Speaker 1: was like this like debate and someone else presented those

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Speaker 1: who marry do Well, and so she was like, Nah,

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Speaker 1: those who marry do ill well Epic seven. That's that's

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Speaker 1: a good Who's it by Vulturing Declare one Future Friend

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Speaker 1: of the Pod Vulturing Declaire. She wants um. She's like

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Speaker 1: against the prison system, and so when someone tries to

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Speaker 1: assassinate her, she like doesn't call the cops on him

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Speaker 1: even though he shot her, and then like gets handled

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Speaker 1: in other ways and all this ship Um, I don't

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Speaker 1: think he disappears or anything. Anyway. I don't know enough

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Speaker 1: about that story yet because I haven't researched that episode yet.

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Speaker 1: But Future Friend of the Yeah, that's a little crumb

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Speaker 1: for later. Okay, And so if you know this show,

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Speaker 1: you know, if there's a bad set of laws and

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Speaker 1: social practices, there are people fighting against it. And how

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Speaker 1: do you think people fought against marriage shrine when divorce

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Speaker 1: wasn't an option assuming they're already married or like, I mean,

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Speaker 1: the only logical like solution seems like they would have

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Speaker 1: to kill their husbands. Yeah, poison. Poison is a really

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Speaker 1: um women solve the problem of marriage with poison. Hell yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: but like, honestly, like really think about it. What was

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Speaker 1: the choice? There wasn't like not all murder. Actually I

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Speaker 1: shouldn't say that, but I think, uh, when you push

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Speaker 1: people against the wall, this isn't in context of so

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Speaker 1: many things, so many things, but people will do things

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Speaker 1: that they wouldn't normally do. Uh, And everyone's capable of

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Speaker 1: the same amount of things. You know, no one's like

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Speaker 1: born unless it's like actually like a chemical thing. But

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Speaker 1: I think anything that you see someone do and you're like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, you can also do that because you're

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Speaker 1: like you're the same species and you have the capability

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Speaker 1: of like, in my opinion, anything can push you to

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Speaker 1: the edge. Yeah, you know, so my point is I

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Speaker 1: support this kind of murder. Yeah, and that's all I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna say. I mean, I I am putting them on

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Speaker 1: my show, cool people who did cool stuff. So no,

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Speaker 1: but that that makes a lot of sense. And even

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Speaker 1: that point about anyone can do any of these things

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Speaker 1: is worth thinking about also from the other point of

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Speaker 1: view of like, you know, when when we do episodes

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Speaker 1: that are about like people who like organized and did

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Speaker 1: all this crazy ship that is a little bit more

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Speaker 1: above boord and a little bit less murder. Um, that's

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Speaker 1: stuff we can do, you know, And I like, I

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Speaker 1: do a history podcast not to be like all the

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Speaker 1: cool people are dead and everyone to listen as this sucks,

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Speaker 1: you know. But like I mean, it's hard for me

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Speaker 1: to remember that even like I just said it out loud,

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Speaker 1: like soundly, like I really believe that I was saying.

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Speaker 1: But it's hard for me to believe that like real

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Speaker 1: change can happen because you hear about all these revolutionaries

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Speaker 1: and you hear about people that were like fighting in

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Speaker 1: a much more impressive time, and you're like, wow, those

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Speaker 1: are badasses, and you forget that you can do the

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Speaker 1: same thing. Um, I forget anyway for myself because I

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Speaker 1: think we get a little bit complacent. And also I

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Speaker 1: think like history in general makes things seem really romantic

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Speaker 1: and like far away. So yeah, I think reminding ourselves

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Speaker 1: that we are just as capable, if not more so,

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Speaker 1: if we wanted to be. But it's just about wanting

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Speaker 1: to be, and it's about executing executing that want, executing

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Speaker 1: something something. Wow, I did not even set that up. Yeah, no, no,

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Speaker 1: and it's such a I don't know. That's an important point.

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Speaker 1: And and I will say the institution of marriage is

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Speaker 1: still not inherently great, but is a different structure than

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Speaker 1: it was before, and divorce is available to more people.

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Speaker 1: Um So I'm not advocating. I'm just describing what people

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Speaker 1: who had their backs up against the wall I chose

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Speaker 1: to do. So. Medieval Italy had this reputation that may

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Speaker 1: or may not have been deserved, of being fucking obsessed

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Speaker 1: with poison. Supposedly, Medieval and Renaissance Italy had in whole

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Speaker 1: poison factories. The authorities were like constantly testing poison and

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Speaker 1: antidotes on prisoners and animals. Italian perfumers had side gigs

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Speaker 1: making poison. Wait, so what was this? What was most

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Speaker 1: of this poison comprised of like was there like a

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Speaker 1: hot one. Yeah. Well, we'll actually talk about a lot

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Speaker 1: of what people used to poison people in detail on

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Speaker 1: this episode. Um, but the big new poison on the

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Speaker 1: scene for most of what we're talking about is Arsenic Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: I was I was gonna say that. I was just like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, smart suggestion, but I'm glad in my

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Speaker 1: mind was on the in the right trap. Yeah, yeah, no, totally.

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Speaker 1: And so Italians had this reputation of being these master poisoners,

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Speaker 1: and so they would get hired by courts all over

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Speaker 1: Europe to be like, oh, we need a court poison er,

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Speaker 1: come on over, or like at one point supposedly, and

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Speaker 1: but all of this is wrapped up in myth right,

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Speaker 1: and we'll talk about that some too, But supposedly at

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Speaker 1: one point, like you know, some monarch is like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I need fifty poisoners to win this war for me

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Speaker 1: by going and poisoning all the wells over you know,

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Speaker 1: enemy land or whatever. That's crazy. One English guy wrote

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Speaker 1: at the time, the Italians, above all other nations most

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Speaker 1: practiced revenge by treasons and are especially and especially are

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Speaker 1: skillful in making and giving poisons. Um, and so it's

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Speaker 1: kind of this like oh those sketchy Italians, right, but

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Speaker 1: you know whatever, that's so interesting. I mean, I guess

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Speaker 1: it kind of it makes sense. Like I mean, obviously

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Speaker 1: there are movies or whatever, all the stories you hear

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Speaker 1: about that time. There is a lot of poison involved.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of like assassinations involving poison or like whatever,

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Speaker 1: and so I guess I for I forget that that

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Speaker 1: that's like an actual thing that makes sense, yeah, because

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Speaker 1: it seems like like a like a wizard spell or yeah, totally. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the dragon came or the court poison or slipped their

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Speaker 1: ring open and poison the king drank the wine and

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Speaker 1: then fell over and whatever. Yeah. Oh no, And I

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Speaker 1: actually didn't write this in the script, but the kings

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Speaker 1: and ship were fucking obsessed and paranoid where they would

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Speaker 1: have like food testers, and the food testers would like

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Speaker 1: like the kings ate ship because like the food tester

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Speaker 1: would come and eat a little bit of everything, but

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Speaker 1: sometimes we just stir it all up to other and

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Speaker 1: like and so the food by the time it is

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Speaker 1: ready for the king to eat is like cold and

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Speaker 1: like take like just destroyed and also strong flavors would

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Speaker 1: mask the scent and taste of poison, so they would

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Speaker 1: avoid the like strong flavors. And their concept of strong

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Speaker 1: flavors was like onions and garlic. Maybe not explains English cuisine.

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Speaker 1: I know, That's what I was trying to figure out.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't find a direct link, but it seems because

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Speaker 1: it's like, well, we don't know about those. But then

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Speaker 1: I'm like, but I bet the peasants, I mean, they're

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Speaker 1: already like turnips and ship, right, so the peasants are

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Speaker 1: probably eating some spicy ship. Yeah, I mean the solution

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Speaker 1: to that, Mr King's whoever you are, is to make

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Speaker 1: your own fucking food, totally. Yeah, And and they would

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Speaker 1: like eat alone, and then they would like, like one king,

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Speaker 1: I can't remember which one because again it didn't make

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Speaker 1: it in the script, he would like wet all of

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Speaker 1: his napkins and have his like testers lick the napkins,

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Speaker 1: and so the like the fucking handkership is cleaning his

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Speaker 1: face with or whatever is like wet and covered in

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Speaker 1: someone else's spittle. Well, why in case there's poison on

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Speaker 1: doesn't happen? Oh my gosh, that's a little bit too far.

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Speaker 1: And the best part is none of it worked, because

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Speaker 1: these these poisons don't take five minutes to show up.

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Speaker 1: They take take a couple of hours at least, you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so poison times, ye oldie poison times. But a lot

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Speaker 1: of it was fake. But there was like everyone was

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Speaker 1: like freaked out about it, and it's hard to tell

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Speaker 1: how much was real or not. One Italian poison of

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Speaker 1: note was used by the Borgia family to murder a

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Speaker 1: ton of political folks like bishops and all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: And it was cantarella or thought and it might have

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Speaker 1: been copper arsenic and phosphorus prepared in the decaying carcass

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Speaker 1: of a hog. Because what's cool, And we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: to more of this. This is the time when science

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Speaker 1: and magic are just fucking science and magic are just

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Speaker 1: in bed, just fucking I I appreciate that. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was gonna say that sounds kind of witchy. Yeah, you know. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And one of the reasons why I think that's a

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Speaker 1: lot of this is exaggerated. There's so many things to say. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Italy was obsessed with poison, there's all these poisons, blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah. But then like for example, Palmero,

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Speaker 1: Paul Armo, Palmaro. You'd think I would have spelled it

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Speaker 1: right when I wrote it down into my script. The

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Speaker 1: town in Sicily that a lot of this story takes

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Speaker 1: place in it only had over like a three hundred

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Speaker 1: year period, there was only seven executions for poison. So, like,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of this is this sort of

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Speaker 1: moral panic where basically anytime anyone important dies, people like

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Speaker 1: it was poison. You know, Yeah, they've just like perpetuated

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Speaker 1: this like fearful rumor, I mean more than it probably was. Yeah, yeah,

393
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Speaker 1: that sounds like what we do now, So it checks out.

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Speaker 1: But people definitely fucked with poison. Killing people never goes

395
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Speaker 1: out of style. Poison has always also been a weapon

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Speaker 1: of those who don't have access to more direct means

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Speaker 1: of violence, which is to say, a woman's weapon again

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Speaker 1: or has it been? Who knows? Because women kill people, right,

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Speaker 1: Obviously we're gonna talk about some women who absolutely kill

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Speaker 1: some people. Um, but patriarchal society condemns women in what

401
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Speaker 1: amounts to which trials over and over again. Also, and

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Speaker 1: everyone loves a good moral panic. So a lot of

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Speaker 1: the killing we're going to talk about this week of

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Speaker 1: women and by women was actually about robbing property, and

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Speaker 1: so I want to talk I'm gonna go on this

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Speaker 1: like little side quest before we get back to the

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Speaker 1: main question. I really excited about side quest. I want

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Speaker 1: to talk about Countess Elizabeth but Torri, which I always

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Speaker 1: thought was pronounced Bathory. Have you ever heard of this person?

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Speaker 1: Just that not I have not heard of the tor Okay,

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Speaker 1: So so this just to be clear listeners. Also, there's

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Speaker 1: a little bit more of a content warning than usual

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Speaker 1: on this episode because I'm not going to linger on

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Speaker 1: anything in graphic detail. But there's some torture and murder

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Speaker 1: and sexual assault and ship in this week's topic. It's

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Speaker 1: very medieval, and I'm sort of making a pun but

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Speaker 1: also realizing that's just where the fucking word medieval, meaning

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Speaker 1: torture and ship comes from. Guess that's yeah, that makes sense,

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Speaker 1: that's the root meaning of that word. Yeah. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: the story goes there was this woman, Countess Elizabeth Pattory,

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Speaker 1: the Blood Countess, the alleged inspiration for Dracula. She's been

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Speaker 1: claimed to be the most successful serial killer in history,

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Speaker 1: with upwards of six fifty bodies. And I'm gonna tell

424
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 1: um I'm going to tell the most commonly heard version first.

425
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: But first before we do that, I want to know

426
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 1: so normally we're sponsored by very positive things. Um. I

427
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: think this time we're sponsored by Arsenic. But I'm wondering, um, uh, Sharine,

428
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: if you have anyone that you would like this show

429
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 1: to be sponsored by something that's just like a pure,

430
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: unadulterated positive thing for the world, like potatoes or arsenic,

431
00:24:54,640 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: a positive thing for the world. Uh. I mean I

432
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 1: need more of this. Uh. This is sponsored by my

433
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: will to live because it's running out and I need more.

434
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: So if I can buy some, that'd be great. Yeah.

435
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: So if you purchase the products and services that we advertise,

436
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: you will have more will to live. That is the

437
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 1: promise and trap of consumer capitalism. Here's some ads, Okay,

438
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: So the commonly heard version of that. Tori. She was

439
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 1: born in fifteen sixty royalty in the Kingdom of Hungary.

440
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 1: She wasn't born in Transylvania, but which was a region

441
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 1: and Hungry at the time now Romania. But her uncle

442
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 1: was in charge of Transylvania and she was She was

443
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: an epileptic child, or what got called at the time

444
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: the more metal name falling sickness and how do you

445
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: treat falling sickness? Well, Sharine, you should try rubbing the

446
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 1: blood of someone without falling sickness on your lips or

447
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:04,439
Speaker 1: just drink that mixed up with powdered skull. Oh, I

448
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: mean they do do that like plasma facial these days,

449
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 1: the vampire facial where they like literally take plasma out

450
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: of you and put your your face. So yeah, and

451
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 1: it's supposed to like do wonders for keeping you young

452
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: forever and like skin rejuvenation. So it sounds like she

453
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 1: was onto something then. But Torre is definitely ahead of

454
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: her time because we're going to get to even more

455
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: of her skin care rotine. Hell, yeah, she probably looked

456
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 1: so good. So her family was in bread as hell

457
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: because their royalty and falling sickness and insanity ran in

458
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: her family. Again, this is the sort of legend version

459
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 1: of all this. Her family raised her up to be cruel,

460
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 1: as rulers were at the time, so she grew up

461
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 1: watching brutal torture and executions at the hands of her family.

462
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: She watched one Roma woman who was accused of stealing

463
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 1: and selling children into slavery, which was almost certainly like

464
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: a racist attack on the Roma woman, because Roma people

465
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 1: get accused of that kind of ship. This woman was

466
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: sewn into a horse's stomach. Yeah we alive, Yeah, I

467
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: think so. Not for that long though. Mm hmmm yeah,

468
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: m I'm sorry. There's going to be some yep. The

469
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: medieval ship. She watched her own cousin cut out the

470
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: ears and noses off rebellious peasants. Mm hmm. Now I

471
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,959
Speaker 1: feel bad. I feel like I've done a bastards. No,

472
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: you have not notice. Notice how I'm not flinching so

473
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: used to the sewing of the inside of the horse.

474
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: I've never heard that, and if I have, I blocked

475
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: it out my memory. That is that is sick. There

476
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: are numerous types of torture and execution in this episode

477
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: that I had never heard of, and I have been

478
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: reading fantasy books since before I knew how to read.

479
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: I don't know how that worked, but I was probably

480
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: doing it. Her family was Calvinist on paper her, but

481
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 1: they practiced Satanism and witchcraft at home. She spoke Hungarian, Slovak, Greek, Latin,

482
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: and German, and was one of the most educated people,

483
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: let alone women, of her era. When she was thirteen,

484
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: she bore her first child, who was fathered by a

485
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: peasant boy. The child was whisked away and never seen again,

486
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: and the peasant boy was castrated for having dared. And

487
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: then the same year she was married off to a

488
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: baron named friend Dadsi, who was about five years older

489
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: than her and was from a family that supposedly wasn't

490
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 1: all fucked up like the Batteries. And this joined like

491
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,959
Speaker 1: two of the most powerful families in the country, right,

492
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: because women don't have any fucking choice and they're married,

493
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: especially if you're fucking royalty and your Yeah, totally, she

494
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: did get given a castle that she didn't even have

495
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: to live in. She had a different castle to live in.

496
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: She got like her own extra castle and seventeen villages

497
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: to own, because feudalism is fucking weird. Her husband was

498
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: a noble on a soul journey, was always away from home,

499
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: which I think probably suited her just fine. They didn't

500
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: conceive their first child until they've been married for like

501
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: ten years. He fought mainly against the Ottomans, because I

502
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: think everyone who was an Ottoman was fighting against the

503
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: Ottomans at that point, and he was a brutally effective

504
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: leader and a monster to his prisoners. He would impale

505
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: them for fun. The Black Knight of Hungary, leader of

506
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: the Hungarian troops. And yeah, it's pretty cool. I can't

507
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: deny that it's kind of metal. I know. Yeah, no,

508
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: this whole there's multiple metal bands that I mean. One

509
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: of them is just called Bathory or maybe but Tory.

510
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: Maybe it's pronounced correctly. I'm not sure. He teaches his

511
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 1: wife even more cruelty. At one point, he punishes a

512
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: girl by smearing her with honey so insects bite her.

513
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: He has this whole game called kicking the Stars. I

514
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: don't understand this game. To quote Alexandra Bartoswitz is right

515
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: up of this legend. It consisted of putting a piece

516
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: of oil soaked paper between the fingers of a disobedient

517
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: servant and setting it on fire. What was it, king

518
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: called kicking the stars? I don't know. If it was

519
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: between the toes, it would make a little bit more sense.

520
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: That sounds way more pleasant than it is. I don't

521
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: know totally. Hey kid, you want to play kicks in

522
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: the stars. Yeah, it's where I sent some stuff on

523
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: fire in your hand. That's interesting and strange. I never

524
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: heard of that from the same I know, from the

525
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: same source. He also presented Elizabeth with a pair of

526
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: gloves that ended in claws, which she used to punish

527
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: her servants, the original Wolverine and Dracula. Well, she really

528
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: had had had layers absolutely like like Shrek. Yeah, I mean,

529
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: also just like a side note that I haven't forgotten

530
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: since you said it. I forget that Transylvania was a

531
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: real place, and I know there are people out there

532
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: that do the same thing. So that's already wild to me,

533
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: Like it's already set in this fantasy reality time. Yeah. Absolutely, Um,

534
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: I have a friend of mine gave me a necklace

535
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: that's a little vial of dirt from Transylvania. That's cool,

536
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: that's okay. And so meanwhile, while her brave and cruel

537
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: husband is off at war, Lizzie Bettore is at home

538
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: and she's getting into the evil ship all of her own. Now.

539
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: She's making potions and casting spells and fucking people, even women.

540
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: She travels around and has lesbian orgies. She invites witches

541
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: and wizards to court. She keeps a guy who looks

542
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: like a vampire around. He's pale and has sharp teeth

543
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: and wears all black, and she gets the name the

544
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: Beast of Setcha, which is the name of her castle.

545
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: It was. I mean, this is definitely not something you

546
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: need to know, But when did the vampire myths start? Like,

547
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: when when did that being first get introduced into lore?

548
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: I wonder. I used to know the answer to this

549
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: better I got. I fell into a vampire rabbit hole

550
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, I want to say. I mean,

551
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: historically versions of it have kind of existed forever. It's

552
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: kind of from the like we thought someone was dead,

553
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: so we buried them, but they weren't dead, so then

554
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: they came back and it scared us, right. Um. But

555
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: it's around this time period that you start getting more

556
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: and more folkloric vampires, and they're kind of interesting. In

557
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: the old vampire stories, some of them are like, um, aristocrats,

558
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: and it's kind of this like fear of the aristocratic,

559
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: but then some of them are also like all kinds

560
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: of other ship. I should do a vampire episode at

561
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: some point when I actually know the off the top

562
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: of my head, you're atively sucking the blood of the people. Yeah, yeah, exactly, Um,

563
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: like staying young forever by you know. Um, and so

564
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: by her mid twenties, again, supposedly, she's torturing people, mostly

565
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: peasant women in her castle because you see, Sharine, have

566
00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: you ever had a migraine? Yeah? Yeah, they suck. Okay,

567
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: Well what if I told you that nothing cures a

568
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: migraine like the screams of your victims? Mm hmm I do.

569
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: I am pausing for a moment of thought. Um oh yeah,

570
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: that'd be hard to turn down if it was really

571
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: bad migraine. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, fair enough. So

572
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: so she starts torturing people to cure her migraines. And

573
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: that's that's that's what she believed, Like my my, that

574
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: is if my victim screaming. Yes, this is what the

575
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: legend about her has right, right right, allegedly all of this. Yeah,

576
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 1: and she's doing all kinds of ship according to this

577
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: legend that I'm not going to get into details about.

578
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: By the time she's forty one, she's got a which

579
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: best friend who moves in with her. Um just a

580
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: gal pal named Anna Darvoulia, who is described as a

581
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: wild beast in a female body, which is objectively cool.

582
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: So with Anna around, but Torre gets crueler and starts

583
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: killing her victims. She claims that there's a aller outbreak,

584
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: and that excuses all the dead people, including now the

585
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: daughters of the gentry who have come to learn manners

586
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: at her court. So she's like, oh, send your daughters

587
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 1: to learn manners. They will live as prey in my

588
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: castle and I will hunt them. She probably leaves that

589
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: part out of the letters Interesting and most Famous, so

590
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: she's not just killing peasants at that point the right

591
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: she moves on to the royalty or the gentry. Most famously,

592
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: she's known to bathe in their her victim's blood to

593
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: stay young forever, which is why it's a shame it's

594
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: pronounce batory instead of bathroing um. Supposedly she put other

595
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: girls and women into iron maidens with drains at the

596
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: bottom of the iron maiden and like attached it to

597
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 1: a chain that swings above her takes showers and blood

598
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: h and I know. And the way that she learned

599
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,879
Speaker 1: that blood is good skincare, much like century has learned

600
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: that blood is good skincare, is that whenever maids would

601
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: suck up while doing her hair for she would massacre

602
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 1: them and noticed that their blood was good for her skin,

603
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: but the blood of aristocrats works better. So I would

604
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: say that basically, the blood of billionaires will keep you

605
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: young forever. I would say that as a fact. Yeah,

606
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: In case anyone's wondering, is this is this where the

607
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 1: problematic vampire facial thing comes from? I was, I was

608
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: thinking about that. I don't know, there's no way this

609
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 1: is how it started. Maybe, but like the the modern

610
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: version of that is definitely interesting to think about because

611
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: a lot of people dismissed it, but apparently it's actually

612
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: a very um it works like because I mean what

613
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: what the first thing you have to do is though,

614
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 1: is like you have to like micro needle your skin,

615
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 1: so you're you're you're wounding your skin and then the

616
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: blood over it your your face is apparently like the

617
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: act of your face healing the wound and like generating

618
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 1: new skin. That's what it used. It used to be.

619
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: And the reason why it was um. Where there was

620
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: primarily the issues is they were using not your own blood.

621
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: That was the thing. I didn't do that. That was

622
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: a thing. Um, But I can't create market for blood.

623
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 1: Where does the blood come from? Great question? And there

624
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: was all kinds of you know, as you can imagine

625
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: health and sanitary issues there. Um that is that is bad.

626
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, no, but what I know exactly what

627
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: you're talking about, which is you know, he or like

628
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 1: it's and it's done by like board certified like dermatologists.

629
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: You don't know what's like. But no, this other thing,

630
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: you just can't create a market for blood, that's the

631
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 1: bad thing. Yeah, yeah, I did not realize that, but

632
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: um that yeah, it was in fact a thing. I'm

633
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: just wondering if this is the original source of it.

634
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: I mean it sounds like which would be kind of cool.

635
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: And what Margaret saying is you're remperencing something from pop

636
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: culture Sharena and Sophie. I don't know the answer to that.

637
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: Fair enough, Yes, that is what's happening, fair enough, Um,

638
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: please continue. Yeah, but I mean, you know, sixteenth and

639
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: seventeenth century vampires. I have a little bit more knowledge about. Yeah,

640
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: thank god, I will say I I if I had

641
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 1: the money. I don't think I'm above the real, like

642
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,760
Speaker 1: the actual version of the PRP plasma facial thing, because

643
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: collagen your body can't create college and once it's gone,

644
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: you're just gonna get more hollow and sad. There's nothing

645
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 1: wrong with the hollow and sad. But but the thing is,

646
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: if something works, regardless of how weird it is, you

647
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 1: will do it. And I think this lady is doing

648
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: the same thing, you know, like it's working for her,

649
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,919
Speaker 1: and so she's gonna keep doing it fair enough and sick.

650
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 1: Oh okay, and so yeah, so she she doing this

651
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 1: bathing of blood, and she also keeps girls as prey

652
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: in her castle to be hunted at a whim. Why girls?

653
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 1: Why just girls? I'm not sure be easier to get Probably,

654
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 1: so I actually I do have an answer that will

655
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 1: come in the second half of when I'm talking about her,

656
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: when I when I say what the actual story is,

657
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 1: and I think that all In sixteen o four, her husband,

658
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 1: the Black Knight, is off at war again and he's

659
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: forty eight years old, and he either gets slain in

660
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: battle or gets poisoned by his wife, depending on the

661
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,720
Speaker 1: story you read. And with him dead, suddenly his widow

662
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: inherits everything, and rumors are spreading about what's happening in

663
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: the castle at this point, and the king sends his guy.

664
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: His Palatine is the name of the title, basically the

665
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,280
Speaker 1: hand of the King I can make a pop culture

666
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: reference that just has to be about two shows about

667
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: people with swords. The Hand of the King goes to

668
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: go investigate over three witnesses to torture and murder come forward.

669
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 1: They're exhuming all these bodies and shipped from graveyards to

670
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: find all of the torture. They find other bodies and

671
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 1: the tunnels under the castle. So on December six ten,

672
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 1: the Hand of the King goes personally to her castle

673
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: and arrests her and four of her servants accomplices. When

674
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 1: they arrived, she's covered in blood over the corpse of

675
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: a mutilated girl with another living as prey in the castle.

676
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: And when they searched her castle, they find her journal

677
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: detailing the deaths of six hundred and fifty people. She

678
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: kept a diary about all this. Again, well anything like

679
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: no DNA nothing, you're writing how many people you've killed? Yeah,

680
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: but I have a question. Sorry, it's okathi about the answer.

681
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: What was the gender of the kid that they had together?

682
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: Was it a boy or a girl? And I don't know?

683
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, you said that they oh they did.

684
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: I think she ended up having like ten of his

685
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 1: kids in the end. But like I don't remember how

686
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: many of them are vibed. All of these stories are like,

687
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: and then they had seven children, three of whom survived

688
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: to adulthood. I guess my question is, like, would normally

689
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: the air get everything versus the queen. I oh, it's

690
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: an interesting point. I don't know how the inheritance was

691
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 1: working in this particular setup. I do know that she

692
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: inherited everything from her dead husband. That's pretty I mean,

693
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: that's a cool point to think about, because it's a

694
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: pretty sick deal. Yeah. And it might have been because

695
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: she wasn't a ruler. I mean, she was a ruler,

696
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: you know, not high up, right, or she was high up,

697
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: but she wasn't the fucking queen of Hungary ever. Right.

698
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: So they all get arrested, The accomplices confess, and three

699
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: of them are executed, one is given life in prison,

700
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: and the countess gets convicted of vampiresm sorcery, paganism, and

701
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: it's bricked up in a room in her own castle

702
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: and lived out the rest of her days. And the

703
00:40:54,480 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: blood Countess was defeated. Wow. Except basically none of that's

704
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: sucking true. Oh, which is like, I know, I'm a

705
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: little bit like I mean she was. She's a terrible

706
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,439
Speaker 1: person if that was true. If that was true, she's

707
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 1: like a disgusting torturer, serial killer person that had great skid.

708
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 1: But yeah, interesting. But I find I found a bunch

709
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: of things in this when i'm when I'm finding this

710
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: kind of history where they'll be like a woman who

711
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 1: is like attacked as this horrible witch or whatever, right,

712
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 1: and then it'll be like, oh, actually, all that's lies,

713
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: and so then people will be like, actually, she was

714
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: perfectly fine and normal and everything was fine, and she

715
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,479
Speaker 1: was upstanding, and then you go like one step further

716
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, no, she was really interesting and

717
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: cool in a different way than being a vampire. Okay,

718
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: i'm I'm I'm in. You've hooked me. So. She was

719
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: raised Calvinist, She had falling sickness, she might have been

720
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: treated with blood. She probably witnessed cruelty at the hands

721
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 1: of her parents. The sewing the woman into the stomach

722
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: of a horse thing it was probably didn't happen, not

723
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: because they didn't do that, but because they did that too.

724
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,879
Speaker 1: They didn't do it to peasants, because a peasant's life

725
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: isn't worth killing a horse for, because a peasant is

726
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: worth less than a horse, so she probably did see

727
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 1: someone get sewn into a stop horse of whatever stomach

728
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: of a horse. H She certainly married the Black Knight,

729
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: who absolutely was the Black Knight and a cruel, fucking

730
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 1: terrible person. He likely didn't die valiantly in battle. It's

731
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: also really unlikely that she poisoned him, although I would

732
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,720
Speaker 1: not rule it out. He'd been mysteriously sick for several

733
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 1: years before he died, and actually had been unable to

734
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: walk the last several years of his life. It was

735
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: likely that he had poisoned himself with the treatment he

736
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: was taking for venereal disease, but some of those same

737
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: treatments were used in popular poisons around that same time,

738
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: so I don't know. She might have been trying to

739
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: get rid of her cruel husband. That's the head canon

740
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: for me, is that she did poison him and he

741
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,879
Speaker 1: deserved it. But the investigation into be tory about want

742
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: and murder and witchcraft. It started at the same time

743
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: as her husband started getting sick, because is when they

744
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 1: knew that she was going to inherit his wealth um

745
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 1: and most importantly, the king owed them a funck ton

746
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: of money, and that debt was canceled when she was convicted. Interesting,

747
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: so the whole trial was almost certainly just about money

748
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 1: and power. And then later the folkloric demonization of this

749
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: Hungarian aristocrat was useful for Slovak nationalism, So so it

750
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: became a useful folklore. Right when she was arrested, she

751
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: was eating dinner and not probably covered in blood. Um.

752
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:38,760
Speaker 1: The evidence of her journal was that a servant claimed

753
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,240
Speaker 1: to have talked to an investigator who saw the journal,

754
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: but the journal was never entered into um evidence during

755
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 1: the trial, so it didn't exist. Her three accomplices did

756
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: confess to doing all those things while they were having

757
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: their fingers ripped off with red hot pinchers and being

758
00:43:56,239 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: burned alive. One who was I think would say, little person,

759
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,720
Speaker 1: he got off lucky and he was just beheaded. Um,

760
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: he wasn't quick. And they never acted as witnesses in court.

761
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: They just had their confessions before they were tortured to death. Wait,

762
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: so you're saying the killing of the the young girls

763
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: to stay a young thing was true? No, No, so

764
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: they didn't know. They didn't kill anyone as far as

765
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 1: I can tell. No, So they only confess under torture

766
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 1: the deal. Yea, and huh interesting. She was never bricked

767
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: into her castle. She was just put under house arrest

768
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 1: um despite theoretically having like personally murdered more people than

769
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: anyone before since it ever personally murdered. And they just

770
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 1: were like, whatever, you have to stay in your castle

771
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: because we successfully robbed you. It would also take about

772
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 1: thirty people's blood to fill a bath, and the detail

773
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 1: about the blood baths was added to the folklore a

774
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: hundred years after her death. There were probably no lesbian orgies,

775
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: which is the saddest part for report. And she actually

776
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 1: so she real yes, and I believe in the gal

777
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: pal being gal pals m because and she wasn't accused

778
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: of witchcraft or satanism in court, just the murders. All

779
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: the witchcraft was added later. The Iron Maiden never really

780
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,760
Speaker 1: existed in Europe. Uh, it's an invention. Like the concept

781
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: of the Iron Maiden is like, so we the Victorians

782
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: were like kind of being like it was like a

783
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: Victorian like con artist was like, look at this murder

784
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,720
Speaker 1: thing that the medieval people had pay me a dollar

785
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 1: to go look at it or whatever. Damn that guy

786
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: really grifted, I know, you know, speaking of more metal

787
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: bands that came out of this um and you know,

788
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 1: an iron maiden For anyone listening who doesn't listen to

789
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,439
Speaker 1: Iron Maiden, it's an upright human shaped coffin with metal

790
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 1: spikes that you put the person in your close in

791
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: and they die, right. But it is true that they

792
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: would soep people up into the stomach of horses. Um,

793
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: so maybe they did have spiky boxes. It wouldn't surprise

794
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,879
Speaker 1: me if they had spikey boxes. You know, they also

795
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 1: had things close to iron maidens. They would like put

796
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 1: you in like kind of a barrel with spikes, but

797
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 1: you the spikes don't puncture you unless you move, so

798
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 1: it's so like, hey, don't move kind of bullshit. I mean,

799
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,840
Speaker 1: if you were rolling down a fucking hill, that sounds

800
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: worse than just a quick little snap of the iron maiden,

801
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. That's true, that's true. And

802
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:32,839
Speaker 1: where did have an iron maiden was ninth century bag Dad.

803
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: The vizier Ibn al Zayatt made a wooden chest full

804
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: of spikes and would like throw people in it, but

805
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 1: live by the wooden chest full of spikes, died by

806
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: the wooden chest full of spikes in ety seven, he

807
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: got thrown into his own box and killed. Wow, karma,

808
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 1: I guess that's what you would call that. But what

809
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 1: but Tor was is really fucking interesting. She was a

810
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 1: healer and her accomplices basically were witches. They were midwives

811
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:08,240
Speaker 1: and healers that she hired and her her She turned

812
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,760
Speaker 1: her castle into a place that taught women in natomy

813
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: and medicine, which of course was all of medieval as

814
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,720
Speaker 1: hell and involved blood letting and like burning people's wounds

815
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 1: with hot irons and ship um. The like red handed

816
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:25,439
Speaker 1: that she got caught was well, actually, before I tell

817
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 1: you that, you know who else will heal you and

818
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 1: heal your soul and give you the will to live.

819
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 1: Everything that comes after which we have personally that we

820
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:36,399
Speaker 1: have not personally bet it the ads that are coming

821
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 1: after a randomly generated and we are back from those

822
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 1: ads that we all personally endorse in love because everyone

823
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: who participates in capitalism appreciates their own role in the

824
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 1: perpetuation of a society that's destroying the entire globe. Yep, okay,

825
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: where were we handed? She was caught red handed, So

826
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 1: she was caught red handed, which was because yeah, she

827
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: was there. She was in the middle of like I mean,

828
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: she was a mile of eating dinner. But there was

829
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: someone there who was being treated, a young local woman

830
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: who had been attacked by a wild animal and so

831
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,839
Speaker 1: had like been taken to the castle where you know,

832
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: the weird ass countess with all of her like weird

833
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 1: ass probably lesbian, which friends would heal you up. And

834
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: so that was where like the dead bodies and stuff

835
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: would come from that, and like there were all of

836
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: these you know, disease outbreaks happening at the time. I

837
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: was killing a lot of people. But interesting, that's a

838
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 1: that's a really unfortunate twist or like way to change

839
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:43,720
Speaker 1: that story. You know, like she was just because before

840
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 1: you said, but you described her as very smart, like

841
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: knowing all these languages and like all this stuff, and

842
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 1: so it makes sense that she would be interested in

843
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: like their version of medicine back then. That's that's a

844
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 1: I mean, not surprised that I got twisted that way,

845
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 1: but it's unfortunate and it's just like such a classic

846
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 1: way that like I mean it all has to do

847
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,240
Speaker 1: with witch hunts and not serial murder, you know. Yeah,

848
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:13,399
Speaker 1: And also just like that stereotype of like I guess

849
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: it's like a witchy stereotype, like an older like someone

850
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 1: uh like sucking the life out of a young person

851
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: to stay young because that's what they because like it's

852
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: vanity and like whatever. So in this case it was literal.

853
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: But I mean you can say that about a lot

854
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 1: of I don't know, shitty people. Yeah, but in my

855
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,919
Speaker 1: head canon version, they're doing blood letting and they're using

856
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:41,359
Speaker 1: leeches and showing people why not use some of that

857
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 1: blood for your own skin? So I mean he said

858
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 1: that when she was younger, her epilepsy was treated that way.

859
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 1: I don't think she's above that. I think it's especially

860
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: with these vampire facials. I'm calling them that because that's

861
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: essentially what they are. There's blood, but they work apparently,

862
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,839
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I don't think she would have had

863
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: to gone gone out of her way if that, if

864
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 1: she was already doing healing and stuff anyway, like blood living,

865
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: you know what I mean totally yeah, exactly yeah. And

866
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, because like people want to be like,

867
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,880
Speaker 1: ah ha, she was actually perfect, right, Like she's still

868
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: like in my head she still might have murdered her husband,

869
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: who might have probably had it coming, you know, and

870
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: she's still like I don't know, like it, like we

871
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 1: just don't know. Because when things get muddied so completely

872
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 1: by like misogynist trials and the misogynist folklore, you take

873
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 1: someone who is probably genuinely really weird, but you don't

874
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: know how you know. Wait, so did you tell me

875
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:48,839
Speaker 1: how she died yet or no? So she so she

876
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: gets put on house arrest and she kind of just

877
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 1: like way, so she like doesn't actually live all that

878
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: long after that, but she doesn't die of any like

879
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 1: particularly notable way. Maybe she don't kill her, just like

880
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 1: exile her essentially into her own castle. Um, yeah, but

881
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: they banish There is one really interesting end of this story.

882
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: So she was buried at the local church and the

883
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,399
Speaker 1: locals were like, no, what are you fucking doing. She's

884
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 1: like an evil vampire sorcerers Deamon from Hell, get her

885
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,800
Speaker 1: out of here. So she was moved to the family

886
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 1: crypt somewhere else in the country. But that crypt was

887
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: open and her body wasn't there. Oh damn, that's cool

888
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 1: as shit, right, that's so interesting. So maybe she was

889
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,839
Speaker 1: a vampire maybe. Okay, so she's like a healer vampire, right,

890
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,440
Speaker 1: who like occasionally has to cop or whatever, but like

891
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 1: mostly she's like, yeah, she uses her powers for good. Yeah,

892
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 1: and her husband sucks so away with him. And you know,

893
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 1: I mean, where is her body that you have to

894
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 1: want her? I don't know, Like maybe someone like unearthed

895
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:03,240
Speaker 1: her to keep the legend alive or something or total

896
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: a lot of effort though to like years and years later,

897
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, and it was before black metal

898
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 1: kids were really much of a thing. So like, although

899
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 1: I mean basically black metal kids have always you know,

900
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:16,399
Speaker 1: the black metal kids in our hearts have been doing

901
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:22,879
Speaker 1: this kind of ship forever some so they're absolutely were

902
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: some women doing some some poisoning, and like most cool

903
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,280
Speaker 1: things in history, that wasn't done by a single person.

904
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 1: And we're going to talk the main Okay, we finished

905
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:35,720
Speaker 1: our side quest and we're off to the main quest.

906
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:38,399
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about a whole multi generational ring

907
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: of women in seventeenth century Italy. Collectively, they've got upwards

908
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: of six kills, which might make them the most successful

909
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: serial killer group in history. But as you kind of

910
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 1: pointed out the top of the hour, I think that

911
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: murdering men who legally own you from whom there is

912
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 1: no divorce should not be a crime, and neither should

913
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 1: be providing the poison. So I don't really see them

914
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,439
Speaker 1: as serial killers. Yeah, if anything, gets an active self

915
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: defense because who knows what they were experiencing too, to

916
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 1: like we to have to do that. Oh we we

917
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: unfortunately know what they what they were experienced. I won't

918
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: get into the details about that, but I'm prepared, prepared. Yeah,

919
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 1: And maddeningly, this beautiful, like multi generational group of of

920
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 1: women gets their complex history has been reduced to a

921
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: legend of a single woman, which is also untrue. It's

922
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 1: the era of arranged marriages seventeenth century Italy, so not

923
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 1: only are women in capable of leaving unhappy marriages, they

924
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 1: don't even get to pick their husbands in the first place.

925
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 1: They're basically auctioned off. Ah, so your best bet was

926
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 1: to be a aspiring widow and to get a sense

927
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 1: for the life of married women. At the time, there

928
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: was a best selling book from the previous century, Rules

929
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: for Married Life, which advised husbands, you must be your

930
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 1: wife if delights in standing at the window and willingly

931
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: lends a ready ear to any dishonest young men. WOWK, Yeah, sir, what, Yeah,

932
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 1: them's the rules, sofiae Yeah, okay, gaze like foreloring ly

933
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 1: or whatever out of window because it's the only thing

934
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 1: that we could do. There wasn't any TV. They're like window, window,

935
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 1: not find door. Okay, yeah, no, yeah, it's just such

936
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 1: a like you can't Yeah, the fact that you can't

937
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: even gaze forlornly at the wind, like oh, you better

938
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 1: not be looking sad in your life, that I have

939
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 1: made into a nightmare. Yeah, basically, Yeah, And so this

940
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 1: is going to be the murkiest story I've ever told

941
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 1: on this show because it's the one I found the

942
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: greatest variety of versions of. I'd even written a ton

943
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: of this script before I found history book that basically

944
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 1: through out everything else. And so I'm gonna do my best.

945
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 1: But I'll say that half the pop retellings of the

946
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:07,959
Speaker 1: story you'll find on various websites are completely fucking wrong,

947
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 1: and so mine might be completely fucking wrong. But again,

948
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 1: I've read a fuctin of sources around this try to

949
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 1: try to piece it all together. I mean, essentially, all

950
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:19,800
Speaker 1: of history is made up. You know, no one actually

951
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 1: knows whatever happened, and books are written by people that

952
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 1: wanted to write them. That makes sense absolutely, And I

953
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 1: have so much respect for historians who actually just like

954
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 1: do the work of trying to piece together all of

955
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 1: these fucking things and be like, Okay, here's why the

956
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 1: court record might be biased in the following ways, and

957
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 1: here's why you know. Um and I'm I'm one of

958
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 1: these pop historians I'm complaining about because I'm not actually

959
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,439
Speaker 1: a historian. But ah, the story that gets passed into

960
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 1: legend is that there's a woman in Italy named Julia

961
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 1: too Fauna. She's a second generation poisoner, and she concocted

962
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 1: a poison that mixed arsenic lead and belladonna. It was

963
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:01,879
Speaker 1: odorless and flavorless when put into wine, that would kill

964
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 1: a man with only four drops over the course of months.

965
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 1: You do one drop like once a month or so,

966
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,800
Speaker 1: and it made the man appear to die of natural causes.

967
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 1: She sold this poison to ambitious and evil women who

968
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:16,919
Speaker 1: wanted to rob their poor, unsuspecting husbands. It was sold

969
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 1: as awkwate fauna, a cosmetic so as to not arouse suspicion,

970
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 1: or alternatively, a vial of holy water with St. Nicholas

971
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:28,439
Speaker 1: on the label. This is a whole con like, oh yeah,

972
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 1: we'll get to the an entire operation rest. Juliet Ta

973
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 1: Fauna supposedly worked for fifty years killing the six hundred

974
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 1: people before being found out and execute in sixteen fifty nine,

975
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:39,840
Speaker 1: which is an awkward way for her to have to

976
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: work for fifty years because she was born in sixteen

977
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 1: supposedly born in six thirty nine years before I supposed death.

978
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 1: Never mind such details. Fifty years six people all by herself.

979
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 1: When she died, she passed on her legacy to her kid,

980
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:55,439
Speaker 1: and that version of the story conflates a ton of people,

981
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 1: Like I was saying, so I'll try my gust to

982
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 1: get it right, but this isn't like the Elizabeth Patry story.

983
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 1: Don't worry. They actually did some murder, a lot of

984
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 1: people getting poisoned, and the lies and the histories are

985
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 1: around the motives and around who did the poisoning and

986
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 1: the scope of the world they lived in. But that's

987
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 1: where I'm going to cliffhanger it, because that's where we're

988
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 1: gonna leave it today. When we come back Wednesday, we're

989
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 1: going to hear the true story, which is actually cooler,

990
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 1: like just frankly cooler. And involves a whole underworld of

991
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 1: magicians and witches and cities, which is cool, which is

992
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 1: very cool. You're a pro even I'm excited about that

993
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: even there yet, Sue, do you have any thing you'd

994
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 1: like to plug? Uh? Not particularly. You can follow me

995
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: on the Internet if you want, but to be honest,

996
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 1: I don't even post on there anymore. I'm very disillusioned

997
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 1: with the act of posting right now and have been

998
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: for a minute. But you know what followed me anyway.

999
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: It'll give me a little ego boost when I say,

1000
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: when I see it on my phone, which is sometimes

1001
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 1: all I need. And you you host a podcast with

1002
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: callically ambiguous um, and listeners can also catch you on

1003
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 1: on Clozon Media's Daily show. It could happen here like

1004
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 1: several times a month, right, Yeah, Sophie, can you just

1005
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 1: do all my interests for now? On? I mean, because

1006
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: I appreciate that I do. I do Margaret's too, what? Yeah?

1007
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 1: So you could? You can follow Margaret on Twitter at

1008
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 1: magpie ki okay, and you can follow her on on

1009
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 1: Instagram at Margaret Killjoy. I knew there was my handles okay, okay.

1010
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: You can follow Sharne on Instagram at shiro hero and

1011
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 1: you can follow Shrine on Twitter at sharer hero six

1012
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: six six. Hell yeah, okay, I really I really know that. Also, Margaret,

1013
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 1: you have a book coming out? Correct or is it?

1014
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 1: It's out? I'm on tour for it right now. Yeah.

1015
00:58:56,760 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 1: Margaret is recording in a in a car vehicle. Yeah,

1016
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 1: dedicated to to uh you know, her book and her podcast.

1017
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah that too, Margaret. What what's your book called?

1018
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 1: And where can people find it? Well, it's called we

1019
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 1: Won't be Here Tomorrow because we'll be here Wednesday. No,

1020
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 1: I've already made that. Oh my god, that was perfect though. Yes,

1021
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 1: the Book of Short Stories. If you like the kinds

1022
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 1: of things that I tell stories about here, whether it's

1023
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 1: which is or revolutionaries, you will find both in my

1024
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 1: book about people who feed men to mermaids or whatever. Um. Yeah,

1025
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 1: and you can get from a cake press. Oh yeah, bye.

1026
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1027
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

1028
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 1: visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check

1029
00:59:57,200 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 1: us out on the I Heard Radio app, Apple podcast,

1030
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. M HM