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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's me Josham. For this week's select I've

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Speaker 1: chosen our episode on the Flann and Isle Mystery from

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Speaker 1: November twenty twenty one. This is one of those rare

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Speaker 1: instances of a missing person's unsolved mystery disappearance case where

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Speaker 1: the people weren't murdered. Well, I almost certainly weren't murdered.

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Speaker 1: That is one theory, but it's a lesser theory and

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Speaker 1: isn't that refreshing. Hope you enjoy this one even if

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Speaker 1: you've heard it before. I can attest it's still good again. Enjoy.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and

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Speaker 1: there's Charles W Chuck Bryant over there, and Jerry's out

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Speaker 1: here too, So since the gang's all here, the three

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Speaker 1: of us alone on a deserted eye Stuff you should know?

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Speaker 2: Can I mention a couple of things here?

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Speaker 1: I think you should.

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Speaker 3: I want to pre apologize to our Scottish listeners, whom

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Speaker 3: we love. We toured in Scotland, had a great time,

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Speaker 3: one of our best live shows in the beautiful city

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Speaker 3: of Edinburgh. Yes, wonderful people love the Scots, but we

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Speaker 3: are going to butcher some of these names, and I apologize.

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Speaker 1: That's yeah, we're sorry.

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Speaker 2: And what was the other thing?

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Speaker 3: Oh, the other thing was it's impossible to talk about

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Speaker 3: the Flannon Isles Lighthouse Mystery and research it without almost

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Speaker 3: always thinking about the movie The Lighthouse.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and actually it comes up a lot in the

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Speaker 1: research too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think one reason is because it's clear that, oh,

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Speaker 3: what's the guy's name he made it.

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Speaker 1: I can't think of his name, William Akers. It's not

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Speaker 1: William Aker's well, flinnin day Viggers.

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Speaker 2: It's an Eggers, right, Yeah, I'm Robert, I think Robert.

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Speaker 1: Yes, okay, Robert Eggers, Okay, yes.

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Speaker 3: He clearly did his research. And you know, I remember

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Speaker 3: when that movie came out. I spoke on the show

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Speaker 3: that I wrote a movie, a period movie about a

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Speaker 3: lighthouse and a murder that takes place, and then the

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Speaker 3: movie The Lighthouse came out, and I was like, so

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Speaker 3: much for that. But I did a lot of research

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Speaker 3: at the time, and it was clear that Eggers did

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Speaker 3: a lot of research because it was a very accurate film,

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Speaker 3: especially when you read and research the flann And Isles

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Speaker 3: Lighthouse Mystery you're.

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Speaker 2: Like, Oh, yeah, that's like from the movie. And that's

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Speaker 2: like from the movie.

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Speaker 1: Apparently they mentioned it in the movie. I didn't go

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Speaker 1: back and watch it again, but I saw something really

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Speaker 1: that they may they make a reference to the mystery

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Speaker 1: in the movie.

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Speaker 2: Oh cool, that's awesome, I thought so too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I can't wait for that Viking movie to

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Speaker 1: come out.

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Speaker 2: Me too.

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Speaker 3: And this made me want to see the lighthouse again,

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Speaker 3: which I didn't think I wanted to do, but now

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Speaker 3: I do.

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Speaker 2: Same.

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Speaker 1: Here, so we are talking about one particular lighthouse called

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Speaker 1: the flann And Isles Lighthouse, and it was located on

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Speaker 1: one island in the Flannin Isles called Island More. That's

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Speaker 1: not exactly like Chuck was saying, the Scottish pronunciation scott Gaelic,

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Speaker 1: but it's close enough and it actually means in English.

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Speaker 1: I guess the More island, right, Okay, So anyway, that's

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Speaker 1: where this lighthouse is and it's situated. It's still there today.

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Speaker 1: It's automated, though it went automated in nineteen seventy one,

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Speaker 1: but it sits Its light is about seventy five feet

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Speaker 1: atop the cliff, which is the highest point of island.

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Speaker 1: More and that cliff is two hundred feet above sea

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Speaker 1: level and it's a pretty good place for a lighthouse

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Speaker 1: because this area of Scotland is kind of treacherous for ships.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and it's important how high this one was. It

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Speaker 3: figures into the story.

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Speaker 1: I'm not just showing off with stats here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is treacherous. It's a windy area.

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Speaker 3: There are big winds in Scotland, especially out there on

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Speaker 3: those islands. I think it is close And this is

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Speaker 3: kind of funny the name of it, But isn't it

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Speaker 3: nearby supposedly the windiest place?

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Speaker 2: Is it the windiest place in the UK? And what's

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Speaker 2: the name of it?

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Speaker 1: The Butt of Lewis. Come on, I'm serious, but it

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Speaker 1: makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Twelve years old.

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Speaker 1: Lewis is a nearby island which is inhabited in the region,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty rare I think, But this part of it,

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Speaker 1: one end of the island, is called the Butt of

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Speaker 1: Lewis Island and it's the windiest part.

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Speaker 2: The Butt of Lewis is the windiest island right.

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Speaker 1: So the area that these flann And Isles are in

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Speaker 1: so Island More is in the Flannin Isles. The flann

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Speaker 1: And Isles are part of the larger island chain on

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Speaker 1: the northwest of Scotland called the Outer Hebrides, and to

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Speaker 1: the west of them, you can just keep going and

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Speaker 1: going and going, and then you'll finally reach North America.

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Speaker 1: They're pretty remote, they're pretty isolated. They are indeed windy,

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Speaker 1: and like we were saying, the seeds are kind of

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Speaker 1: rough around there. I think that's kind of putting it mildly. Plus,

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Speaker 1: the islands themselves are often very rocky and jagged and

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Speaker 1: so it's treacherous. So of course you'd want to put

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Speaker 1: a lighthouse there.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, the winds blow strong from the butt of Lewis.

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Speaker 1: But the lighthouse that was built there finally on Island

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Speaker 1: More wasn't installed until eighteen ninety nine, which is kind

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Speaker 1: of late considering that Scotland had something called the Northern

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Speaker 1: Lighthouse Board that they organized in seventeen eighty six to

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Speaker 1: basically oversee and standardize lighthouse keeping in that country.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so they were headquartered there in Edinburgh. And here's

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Speaker 3: how it worked at the time. And this checks out

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Speaker 3: according to my research. When I was writing my movie

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Speaker 3: and the movie The Lighthouse, Oh and Xicot they were staff.

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Speaker 3: You had your principal lightkeeper called the principal keeper, and

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Speaker 3: then usually depending on you know, where the lighthouse was,

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Speaker 3: how busy it was, how big it was, and as

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Speaker 3: far as needed personnel for operation, you had one or

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Speaker 3: two assistants, and they were all ranked as you know,

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Speaker 3: you weren't just like, oh, I'll be the first keeper

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Speaker 3: this week, like you earned that spot. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 3: a promotion. And then you were assigned to these stations

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Speaker 3: by the board. Just like in the movie. You don't

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Speaker 3: stay there forever. You kind of rotate and you go

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Speaker 3: there for a little while, and you may get stationed

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Speaker 3: with someone you've never worked with before, and you have

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Speaker 3: to get to know that person very intimately over the

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Speaker 3: course of you know, a short period of time, or

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Speaker 3: it's somebody you have worked with before and you're old

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Speaker 3: friends with maybe or old enemies, yeah, exactly, or old enemies.

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Speaker 3: So aside from these two to three people as principles

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Speaker 3: and assistants, you had what was called the occasional keeper,

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Speaker 3: and this is someone who actually lived nearby, either an

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Speaker 3: inhabited island resident or if it was uninhabited, if it

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Speaker 3: was at least close enough to where they could get

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Speaker 3: there easily and they would help out during the day,

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Speaker 3: but they would go home at night and sleep and

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Speaker 3: stuff in their own betty bye.

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Speaker 1: And that was the standard. But for a place like

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Speaker 1: Island More, where the Flann and Isle's Lighthouse was located,

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Speaker 1: if you were an occasional, you were there for two weeks.

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Speaker 1: That's how hard it was to get to the island

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Speaker 1: and how hard it was to get off of the island.

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Speaker 1: So the purpose of the occasional was to give two

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Speaker 1: weeks rest off to one of the other two or

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Speaker 1: three people who were permanently temporarily stationed there for much

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Speaker 1: longer than.

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Speaker 3: You, right, And then those cases, the keeper the occasional

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Speaker 3: does not go home and sleep right.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things that stuck out to meet

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Speaker 1: Chuck was that, you know, when you think about lighthouse keeping, like, yes,

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Speaker 1: the person has to live there, and it's a lot

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Speaker 1: of work and they have to attend to the light

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Speaker 1: and everything. But I think lighthouse keepers are very frequently

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Speaker 1: portray is weirdos. Yeah, just complete alcoholics who can't do

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Speaker 1: anything else but live by themselves, almost like they're placed

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Speaker 1: there because there's nothing else for them to contribute to society.

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Speaker 1: So they're kind of cast off for ostracized. That's not

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Speaker 1: the case, at least not in Scotland. That was not

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Speaker 1: the case. Like, if you were a lighthouse keeper, that

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Speaker 1: was a very very important job. You took it very

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Speaker 1: very seriously, so much so that there was a study

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Speaker 1: that found between eighteen fifty and nineteen hundred, fifty years,

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Speaker 1: there were only fifteen recorded instances of a lighthouse keeper

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Speaker 1: falling asleep at their post, which was about as bad

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Speaker 1: as it gets as a lighthouse keeper.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean that's not to say there weren't drunks and

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Speaker 3: myths andthropes here and there. Maybe those are the fifteen.

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Speaker 1: Yes, But I did a little more further math, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: if I may be so indulged as to share it.

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Speaker 2: I saw that. I thought that was pretty funny.

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Speaker 1: So get this. Let's say you have about one hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty lighthouses in operation between eighteen fifty and nineteen hundred,

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Speaker 1: and if you calculate that number of lighthouses times the

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Speaker 1: number of nights that occurred over that fifty years in Scotland,

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Speaker 1: you have what we'll call two point seventy five million

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Speaker 1: lighthouse nights. Out of those two point seventy five million

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Speaker 1: lighthouse nights in Scotland over those fifty years, only fifteen

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Speaker 1: of those nights found a lighthouse keeper asleep on duty.

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Speaker 1: That's how seriously they took it.

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Speaker 2: Did you account for leap years?

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Speaker 1: Oh, Chuck, I just really wanted to drive that home. Man.

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Speaker 1: I really thought that was an important point and it

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Speaker 1: didn't come across with fifteen instances of fifty years.

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Speaker 3: Who cares, no, I mean it's a big deal because

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Speaker 3: you know, the purpose of a lighthouse I guess we

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Speaker 3: have not really said, is to light the way around

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Speaker 3: rocky shores and islands. Boats don't run into them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, unless you've been living under a rocky shore, you

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Speaker 1: know that it's.

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Speaker 2: A very important job. Though.

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Speaker 3: I love lighthouses. We've talked about him quite a few

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Speaker 3: times on the show, Big Big Fan. Every time I

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Speaker 3: am near a lighthouse, I will do my best to

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Speaker 3: climb that thing if it's allowed.

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Speaker 1: So who'd done it? In your lighthouse mystery?

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Speaker 2: Who did do it? It was a good story.

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Speaker 1: Actually, well, then maybe you should hang on to it

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Speaker 1: in case somebody comes along, because it's not like The

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Speaker 1: Lighthouse is the only lighthouse movie you ever made.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: The briefest synopsis is it's two sisters who are tending

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Speaker 3: the lighthouse because it was their family job and their

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Speaker 3: parents died there. So it's these two sort of like

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Speaker 3: a like maybe a twenty year old and a sixteen

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Speaker 3: year old out there alone in this island. And then

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Speaker 3: these two men wash ashore one day in a shipwreck,

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Speaker 3: and they tell the awful story of their ship going down,

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Speaker 3: and it turns out that the real story as they

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Speaker 3: were prisoners aboard a ship being transferred and they escaped

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Speaker 3: their shackles and murdered everyone aboard. Wow, and then there

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Speaker 3: was a shipwreck. So they were bad guys who got

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Speaker 3: washed ashore.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's a bit like a reverse dead calm.

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Speaker 3: Sort of, and they charmed the girls. But there is

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Speaker 3: I guess I didn't know the name was an occasional keeper.

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Speaker 3: There's a guy that lives one guy that lives on

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Speaker 3: the island that helps them out that is sort of

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Speaker 3: suspicious of the guys, and it sort of plays out

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Speaker 3: over the course of the movie where they're exposed ending

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Speaker 3: in a game of cat and mouse. One night nice

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Speaker 3: and I actually remember how it actually it was, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I mean I did it as an experiment because all

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Speaker 3: I've ever written is comedy, and I thought, hey, maybe

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Speaker 3: I'll write a serious thriller and it could be better

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Speaker 3: if a really good thriller writer got a hold of it,

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 1: But were there's still like little jokes peppered as a sides,

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Speaker 1: like one of the sisters is running from the murderer

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Speaker 1: and says to herself, I left the mainland for this,

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Speaker 1: like you're he shines through Still.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know. I'll have to dust that thing off.

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Speaker 1: You should, man, it sounds like a good one, thank you.

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Speaker 1: So this lighthouse back to the flann And Isles lighthouse

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Speaker 1: on island more like we said that most of the

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Speaker 1: Outer Hebrides are uninhabited. I think we said that, didn't we?

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Speaker 2: Uh, I don't know, but you just said it then.

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Speaker 1: I think there's seventy islands in the Outer Hebrides and

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Speaker 1: only fifteen of them are populated, and Island More is

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Speaker 1: definitely not one of them. The only remote, it is

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Speaker 1: extremely remote. The only people, the only beings that live

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Speaker 1: there what you would recognize as a genuine normal being

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Speaker 1: as opposed to say paranormal, which we'll get into, are

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Speaker 1: the lighthouse keepers and some sheep. Even the people whose sheep.

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Speaker 1: Those are don't live on the island or even stay

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Speaker 1: there overnight. They go out a few times a year

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Speaker 1: check on the sheep, and then leave before nightfall. That's

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Speaker 1: kind of how Island Moore is viewed. It seemed kind

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Speaker 1: of as a place where maybe gods or ghosts or

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Speaker 1: just something otherworldly lives on island more according to the locals.

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Speaker 1: According to lore written about the locals, I've never spoken

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Speaker 1: to an outer Hebridian. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And I think the other thing we need to mention too,

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Speaker 3: because I believe it comes up later in one of

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Speaker 3: the supernatural explanations for what is to come here with

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Speaker 3: this mystery is the name Saint Flannin comes from the

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Speaker 3: fact that Island Moore was the site of a chapel

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Speaker 3: in the seventh century built by a traveling Irish monk

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Speaker 3: who eventually became Saint Flannin.

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Speaker 2: And that's going to come up. Just put a pin

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Speaker 2: in that.

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Speaker 1: It's a big time pin. Hang on to it, Okay?

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Speaker 2: Is that a good setup? Should we take a break?

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Speaker 3: I think so, man, all right, we'll come back with

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Speaker 3: more spooky lighthouse mystery stuff right up to this, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, So we should probably mention the steamship actor or

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Speaker 1: arched actor. I've seen it both ways, but that kind

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Speaker 1: of kicks off the story for us, don't you think.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we haven't mentioned the major players either yet,

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Speaker 2: have we.

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Speaker 1: No? No, I guess we could go either way. We

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Speaker 1: can mention one or the other.

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Speaker 3: First, all right, let's mention the players, because these are

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Speaker 3: the actual keepers of that lighthouse. You had the principal keeper,

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Speaker 3: James Ducatt, You had the second assistant.

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Speaker 2: Wouldn't he be the first assistant though?

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Speaker 1: No, Donald MacArthur, We'll get into that.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Thomas Marshall was the second assistant, and then Donald

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Speaker 3: MacArthur was the occasional right.

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Speaker 1: Here's my bit. So he was filling in for a

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Speaker 1: guy named William Ross. William Ross was the first assistant keeper,

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Speaker 1: which meant that since Donald MacArthur was filling in for him,

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Speaker 1: Donald MacArthur was the first assistant keeper, even though he

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Speaker 1: was an occasional keeper.

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Speaker 3: Okay, that makes sense. And William Ross was on sick

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Speaker 3: leave and just judging from the movie The Lighthouse and

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Speaker 3: all this research, like you must have had to been

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Speaker 3: really sick to get taken off the island.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but I think yes, that's what I thought too,

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Speaker 1: But doing research for this, I found that these guys

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Speaker 1: had all of them had a rotating two weeks off.

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Speaker 1: So at any given point over a stretch of two weeks,

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Speaker 1: one of those men, James Ducott, Thomas Marshall or William

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Speaker 1: Ross would not be on the island because they rotated

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Speaker 1: two week shore leave basically. So I yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: of the impression that if you went and tended a lighthouse,

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Speaker 1: they dropped you off, left you with some food and

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Speaker 1: said see you never.

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Speaker 2: But that's not the case.

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Speaker 1: No, No, I think they were well taken care of.

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Speaker 1: I get the impression of the Northern Lighthouse Board was

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Speaker 1: pretty good at its job and really cared about these

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Speaker 1: people and looked after them. I didn't see anything to

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Speaker 1: deny that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well it's a brutal and important job, so surely

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Speaker 3: that they were taking care of at least to a

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Speaker 3: certain degree.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But the upshot of all this is that there were

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Speaker 1: three men on the island, three dudes working that lighthouse,

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Speaker 1: and aside from some sheep, that was it, that was

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Speaker 1: the only people on the island. And this, by the way,

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Speaker 1: this is December of nineteen hundred, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so this thing is brand new.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they built it in eighteen ninety nine. That was

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Speaker 1: scheduled to take two years. It took four years. The

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Speaker 1: construction was started in eighteen ninety five, and what they

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Speaker 1: built was at the time a state of the art lighthouse.

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Speaker 1: But it took so long. It took twice as long

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Speaker 1: as they anticipated because the cliffs and the island itself

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Speaker 1: was so treacherous. That's how long it took just to

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Speaker 1: get materials up the cliff to build the lighthouse.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So it's finally in operation, and then now comes the actor,

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Speaker 3: which is what you mentioned earlier, not act R, but

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Speaker 3: the actor, aht er.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It was a Transatlantic steamship from Philadelphia to Leith,

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Speaker 1: which is a port for Edinburgh.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 3: So they were out there. I was about to say

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Speaker 3: sailing around, but I guess they were steaming around and

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Speaker 3: they waited out of storm for a few days. And

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Speaker 3: then this part got confusing to me.

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Speaker 1: So the actor was passing by flann And Isles. It

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Speaker 1: passed by on December fifteenth, and the actor noticed that

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00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,439
Speaker 1: the light was out, not that they couldn't see the

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00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,439
Speaker 1: light because of weather or anything like that. Like the

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Speaker 1: light was straight up, not lit on the lighthouse on

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00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,760
Speaker 1: flann and Isle's lighthouse like that. It was a very

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Speaker 1: strange thing to see and it was very noteworthy. They

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00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,239
Speaker 1: ran into some weather on their way to Leith and

340
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Speaker 1: had to wait it out for a few days, and

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Speaker 1: when they finally made it into port, I guess they

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Speaker 1: passed the information along, but the Northern Lighthouse Board didn't

343
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Speaker 1: catch wing of it until the official relief supply ship

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Speaker 1: showed up a few days later, and the actor's observation

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Speaker 1: that the light was out wouldn't come into play until

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Speaker 1: an investigation was launched later on.

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Speaker 3: Right, So that relief ship was the Hesperus hgsp r Us,

348
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Speaker 3: and that arrived on December twenty sixth, nineteen hundred, which

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Speaker 3: was Boxing day after Christmas.

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Speaker 2: And what these.

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Speaker 3: Ships brought was they usually brought either supplies or fresh

352
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,239
Speaker 3: dudes or both, and in this case I think they

353
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Speaker 3: had supplies and a fresh lighthouse keeper. And it was

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Speaker 3: captained by Captain Harvey, and they were like, all right,

355
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,200
Speaker 3: something's going on here. This light's out, the flag's not flying.

356
00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,200
Speaker 3: Let me toot on the horn a few times. Nobody

357
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,439
Speaker 3: comes out. They're all right, well, let me send up

358
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,960
Speaker 3: a flare they send up a flare. No one comes out,

359
00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,160
Speaker 3: and what they're trying to do is say, hey, we're here,

360
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,359
Speaker 3: get you little your little railcar system going. It had

361
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,280
Speaker 3: a little cable a little cable pulled railroad system that

362
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,919
Speaker 3: was operated by a steam engine and a shack, and

363
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,960
Speaker 3: so when the hip pulls up, they would toot the

364
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,600
Speaker 3: horn and the dudes would come down and they would

365
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,200
Speaker 3: get that steam engine going and get that cable car

366
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Speaker 3: ready to transfer the goods onto this thing. So they

367
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Speaker 3: could you know, it's like hundreds of pounds of stuff

368
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Speaker 3: going up a really really steep cliff side.

369
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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's just no way to move that stuff. Otherwise, no,

370
00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:37,800
Speaker 1: you'd have to do it.

371
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,640
Speaker 3: So nobody came out, no one gets that steam shack going,

372
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,720
Speaker 3: and they're like, all right, something's going on. We're gonna

373
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Speaker 3: have to go on land and figure this out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And just the fact that they weren't greeted by

375
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Speaker 1: one or more of the guys from the lighthouse, which

376
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:58,320
Speaker 1: is apparently custom, like even the most grizzled misanthrope lighthouse

377
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,240
Speaker 1: keeper just knew it was to come down and greet

378
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 1: the relief ship.

379
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Speaker 2: You're still dying to see someone else. Pretty much, I think, so.

380
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. So that like the fact that no one showed

381
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 1: up and then no one responded to their signals. They

382
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 1: were like, something really weird is going on here. And

383
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 1: they had Joseph Moore who was the relieving keeper, which

384
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,240
Speaker 1: makes me think that William Ross was really really sick

385
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,240
Speaker 1: because he would have been on sick leave for way

386
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Speaker 1: over two weeks by this side, because I believe the

387
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 1: relief ship was five days late because of weather, so

388
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,040
Speaker 1: he must have really been laid up. And they sent

389
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Speaker 1: another relieving keeper, Joseph Moore instead, and Joseph Moore went

390
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 1: ashore and he was friends with these guys. He wasn't

391
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,439
Speaker 1: some new dude or anything like that. So he was

392
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,480
Speaker 1: genuinely concerned. And he went up the steps to the

393
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,920
Speaker 1: lighthouse there's apparently one hundred and sixty of them, and

394
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,400
Speaker 1: he just knew right away that something was way off.

395
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,120
Speaker 1: There was no sign of life, there was nobody around,

396
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:59,679
Speaker 1: there was the just nothing was going on. It was abandoned, basically,

397
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 1: and he didn't have a very good feeling about it.

398
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,200
Speaker 1: So he runs back down to the boat to say,

399
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Speaker 1: I think we have a problem here.

400
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,800
Speaker 3: Yes, so he says, I think we have a problem.

401
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,600
Speaker 3: And then that's when basically everyone on board said, all right,

402
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,199
Speaker 3: we got to this is a situation now that we

403
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 3: all have to deal with. I think it was the

404
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 3: captain who went with more to search for other stuff,

405
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,720
Speaker 3: and they said, in the meantime, you other guys, you

406
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,240
Speaker 3: got to get up there and start operating this lighthouse

407
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 3: because it's been down and we need to get that

408
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 3: thing cranked up again.

409
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: Yes, they so the first, for the first time, possibly

410
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 1: since December fifteenth, the lighthouse was lit again by these

411
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 1: relief guys who took over and kind of settled in

412
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 1: and were like, all right, this is our job now.

413
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 1: But that follow up search, it's weird. Like we'll talk

414
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 1: about some of the legends and layers that were added

415
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: to it over the years. But to me, the thing

416
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,879
Speaker 1: that was like so weird about the follow up search

417
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,400
Speaker 1: was that everything was in place. Yeah, like it would

418
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 1: be way more like kind of middle of the road

419
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 1: to me, this mystery if there was like signs of

420
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 1: struggle or you know, there were like everything was just

421
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 1: kind of a skew. It's way more eerie to me

422
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: that like everything was exactly how it should have been.

423
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 1: It's just the three human beings that were supposed to

424
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:25,160
Speaker 1: be there were missing. But that's what Joseph Moore found

425
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 1: and the others found when they searched a lot more thoroughly.

426
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, the door to the keeper's house was closed, the

427
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 3: gate was closed. In the kitchen, everything was all spick

428
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 3: and span. Everything was all cleaned up that it was

429
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 3: clear that someone had done some cooking in the grate,

430
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 3: but not anytime soon. There were ashes in there. The

431
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 3: beds were made, the clocks had all stopped because no

432
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 3: one was there to whine them, obviously, And everything was

433
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 3: fine except like you said that there was no one

434
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 3: around that there was a full fountain of paraffine oil.

435
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 3: It was all like the light was ready to be burned.

436
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 3: The lamp that Frenelle lens was cleaned up and ready

437
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 3: to go. The blinds were drawn, the records were all

438
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 3: filled out, you know, all the way up until Saturday,

439
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 3: I think, the morning of December fifteenth, right, yep. And

440
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 3: so everything was great, except for there were two missing

441
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 3: sets of rain gear they're called oil skins, their coats

442
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 3: and their boots. Two of those were missing out of

443
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 3: the three guys, and so that's sort of the only

444
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 3: thing out of the ordinary at this point.

445
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that was basically the only trace of the

446
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: missing men. Like, had those oil skins still been there,

447
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: you would have taken the lighthouse in the area as

448
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: like having been prepared for somebody else. They just hadn't

449
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: shown up yet. Like the missing oil skins were the

450
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,439
Speaker 1: only trace that those men were missing, that there had

451
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,400
Speaker 1: been men there that were no longer there anymore.

452
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 3: Right, And then there were a couple of pieces of

453
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,200
Speaker 3: literature that kind of confused things after the fact, right.

454
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that really kind of made this, like to a

455
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: lot of people, like a much bigger mystery. I think

456
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 1: some people came along and weren't satisfied with how mysterious

457
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: it was on its own, and so added to it

458
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: and added to it over the years through magazine articles

459
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: and newspaper reports and then later on like podcasts and stuff,

460
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: and so you really have to be careful navigating these waters.

461
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 1: I feel excuse the pun or the stupid metaphor when

462
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 1: you're researching this, because so much of it is just

463
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 1: regurgitated as fact because it has been part of the

464
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: story for one hundred years that it was actually thanked

465
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: to thanks to the efforts of a journalist named Mike Dash,

466
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: who if you are at all interested in nonfiction writing,

467
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 1: especially nonfiction history writing, go check out Mike Dash's website.

468
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 1: He's probably the best in the business. Oh yeah, but yes,

469
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: he's just amazing. But he he set his sights on

470
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: getting to the bottom of this, and he did some

471
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: stuff and basically finally definitively proved no. This was added

472
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 1: to it later on. This was added to it later on.

473
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 1: This is not true that kind of stuff. So it

474
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: hats off to Mike Dash for demystifying a lot of it.

475
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 3: True but also making it not as fun because it's

476
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 3: decidedly creepier with these newspaper stories as they were written.

477
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 3: One of the newspaper stories talked about the log book

478
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 3: and this is completely fabricated, you know, like Mike Dash

479
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 3: exposed it as fabrication, but it's still pretty creepy. The

480
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 3: log entries in the fake log entries were by a

481
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 3: second well not by a second assistant, Marshall, but this

482
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 3: is how they wrote it, and wrote on December twelfth,

483
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 3: they saw severe winds the likes of which I've never

484
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 3: seen before in twenty years, and wrote, and these are

485
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 3: people that have seen some of the worst storms you

486
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 3: could imagine out there on these outer islands and pretty

487
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 3: unshakable guys, I would think, And he said he wrote

488
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 3: in the next few days that the storm continued. It

489
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 3: was so unbearable that Ducat, their principal keeper, was struck

490
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 3: mute by the storm, and that occasional keeper MacArthur, who

491
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 3: was supposedly a really tough guy, was recorded as weeping

492
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 3: uncontrollably for days because of how bad the storm was.

493
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, it's good stuff.

494
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 1: It is good stuff, but Mike Dash made mincemeat out

495
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 1: of it, and he's kind of my hero for it.

496
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: One of the things that he basically just points out

497
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: is if this were an official logbook, if you were

498
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 1: a second assistant you put that in there, you would

499
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: you would basically get fired for that kind of thing,

500
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: Like that's not what a logbook is for, And you

501
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: certainly wouldn't put that your superior was weeping uncontrollably in

502
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 1: the log book, Like that's just not what you would

503
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: put in a logbook for the for in the first case.

504
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 1: And then secondly, he also said that somebody being quiet

505
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: because of a storm or whatever or their mood, like

506
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: it also kind of mentions their mood a lot too,

507
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: that that would have no bearing on anything. In the

508
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: only way that that makes sense in relation to the

509
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: story is after the fact, which he said obviously, that

510
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: means that these were written after the fact. And then

511
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: years later, after he'd first investigated it, he finally turned

512
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: up a copy of the magazine that this came out

513
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: in in like nineteen twenty one, and it was like

514
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: a like a pulp magazine called like True Confessions or

515
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 1: something like that. So he definitely deconstructed that for sure,

516
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 1: to my great satisfaction. I love it.

517
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of funny though, like the logbook was

518
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 3: basically like your diary.

519
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: That's exactly right, he said, like logbooks were not diaries. No,

520
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 1: he actually specifically said that, Yeah.

521
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 2: That's funny.

522
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 3: The other thing he uncovered or did he uncover the

523
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 3: poem or was that just.

524
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 1: I think that was a little more common knowledge. But yeah,

525
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: he wrote about the poem being the poem too.

526
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 2: Okay.

527
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 3: So in nineteen twelve, there was a poem by Wilfred

528
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 3: Wilson Gibson who wrote a poem about this mystery where

529
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,959
Speaker 3: he says there was an untouched meal on the table,

530
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 3: cold meat pickles and potatoes. The kitchen chair was knocked over.

531
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 3: The only sign of life was the keeper's canary half

532
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 3: starving on his spurch Like, these are all the things

533
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 3: that you mentioned would have made this a different story.

534
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 3: But everything was really just fine. I don't even think

535
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 3: the chair was turned over, right, I don't know. I

536
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 3: think the guy later on, well, we'll get to him.

537
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. The way that Mike Dash treated it is that

538
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: it's possible. Okay, I don't know if Mike Dash treated

539
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: it like that way. Mike Dash wrote about a later

540
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: guy who will talk about who treated it as facts, So.

541
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, I I don't.

542
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: I think what the upshot of it is that in

543
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: doing like this research on primary resources, like what Joseph

544
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: Moore wrote, what Robert Muirhead who will talk about wrote,

545
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: these people who were actually there when it happened or

546
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: right after it happened, that nobody mentioned anything like a

547
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: turn overchair, and based on what they did mention, it

548
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: seemed like they probably would have mentioned a turned overchair.

549
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: They were so meticulous in the details.

550
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 3: All right, Well, let's talk about some of the evidence

551
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 3: that was there, okay, because what we're really talking about is.

552
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 2: Was there.

553
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 3: I mean, the kind of obvious thing you would think

554
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 3: about is was there some big storm that washed these

555
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 3: guys away forever? Like That's kind of the one reasonable explanation.

556
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 3: And so as far as evidence goes, most of it

557
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 3: is storm related. For the you know, to sort of

558
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 3: support that and to go against it, there was a

559
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 3: railway that we talked about and that had a crane,

560
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 3: and the crane was sort of, you know, built to

561
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 3: help unload things off of this platform, off the cargo container.

562
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,719
Speaker 3: And it was about seventy feet above sea level, and

563
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 3: it was fine. It was It even still had the

564
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 3: canvas wrapped around it. So if there was some big storm,

565
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 3: and evidence shows there probably was one, right mm hm,

566
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 3: but at least this crane seventy feet up wasn't damaged

567
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 3: and that canvas was still there, which is a little weird.

568
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,959
Speaker 1: It is a little weird because even a little higher

569
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: up toward the top of the cliff, So the crane

570
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: was at about seventy feet above sea level, right, yeah,

571
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: a little higher up than that, at about one hundred

572
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: and ten feet above sea level. There was a box,

573
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,479
Speaker 1: a big box that held a lot of like mooring

574
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: ropes and ropes for the crane and to some really

575
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: important stuff tackle, and it had been busted open and

576
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: the contents like strewn all down the cliff's face. There

577
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: was a booy that was tied to the railing right

578
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: around the same place as that crate, one hundred and

579
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: ten feet above sea level. It had been torn clean

580
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: away from the ropes that had lashed it to the railing.

581
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: The ropes were still there, but the buoy, just a

582
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: little piece of booy was left attached to it, and

583
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: yet the crane was intact. And then even weirder, the

584
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: iron railings around on the crane that you would use

585
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: as handrails had just been completely twisted and wrenched out

586
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: of place.

587
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 2: That's a heck of a storm.

588
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: It's an amazing storm. It's crazy to me that the

589
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: crane was left intact and that the canvas was even

590
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: on it still.

591
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 2: That was really weird.

592
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 3: There was a two thousand pounds stone that was up

593
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 3: on the cliff that slid down, and then I believe

594
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 3: the railway tracks were even torn up from the concrete.

595
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 3: And then the grass at the top of the cliff,

596
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 3: this is two hundred feet up at the very top,

597
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 3: was ripped up as far back as thirty feet from

598
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 3: the edge.

599
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: That's nuts, Like, do you know how much force a

600
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: wave would have to have to tear up grass in

601
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: the first place, and then that thing would have to

602
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: be over two hundred feet tall to even reach that grass.

603
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 2: That's a bad storm.

604
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: It's a monster wave. But the storm part that kind

605
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: of confounds things big time. And I think we should

606
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,959
Speaker 1: take another break and we'll talk about how everything's just

607
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: so confounded still to this day, which is why this

608
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: is a mystery.

609
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 3: Right after this, all right, we've got this mystery brewing.

610
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 3: These three men are missing. It's pretty clear that there

611
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 3: was a big storm that blew through there. So, like

612
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 3: I said earlier, the obvious explanation was these strong windsors

613
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 3: came along and just blew these guys the heck off

614
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 3: this island and they were never seen again.

615
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: That's not entirely out of the question because of the

616
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: butt of Lewis.

617
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 3: That's right, strong winds flow from the butt of Lewis.

618
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 3: As everyone knows, and I'm twelve years old. Robert Muirhead

619
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 3: he was a super tendant of lighthouses, and he investigated

620
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 3: this disappearance. He knew all these guys, some really really well.

621
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 3: But I think the occasional keeper he knew the lease,

622
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 3: but he still knew pretty well.

623
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:12,239
Speaker 2: Right.

624
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 3: He's the one that did this investigation personally and went

625
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 3: out there, wrote up this report. And I think he

626
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 3: was the last person. He was out there, you know,

627
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 3: because it was a new lighthouse, I guess, sort of

628
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 3: finishing up, and I don't know if he christen it

629
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 3: or whatever, but he was one of the last, in fact,

630
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 3: maybe the last person even see them alive.

631
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 2: Right.

632
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: He says in his report that he's probably the last

633
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: person to shake hands with these men and see them

634
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: alive when he shoved off on December seventh, when the

635
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: last relief ship, the previous release ship had come along all.

636
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 3: Right, So in his official report, he said, I don't

637
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 3: think it was a strong wind that literally blew them

638
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 3: off the island. It was blowing westerly that day, and

639
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 3: that means it would have blown them back inland toward

640
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 3: the island, and there's there's no way that these guys

641
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 3: would have blown completely across the whole face of the

642
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 3: island off the other side. Because they know what to do.

643
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 3: They know to drop and get flat and hold on

644
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 3: and they probably would not have been blown all the

645
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 3: way off if it was westerly.

646
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 1: They need to stop drop and do not.

647
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: Roll yet, don't roll, please, don't roll. Not in that case,

648
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 2: I grab something heavy.

649
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, anything, a sheep, whatever, anything that will keep you

650
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: from being blown off. But that's just nuts. It shows

651
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: you how windy it is up there. That was a

652
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: possibility that Merr had considered and was plausible enough that

653
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: he had to at least put it in the report

654
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: as a possibility.

655
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 2: That's right.

656
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: The one that he focused on that most people who

657
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,439
Speaker 1: think in level headed ways kind of agree with two

658
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 1: is that instead a wave probably came along and knocked

659
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: these men off.

660
00:34:58,640 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this one.

661
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 3: I'm an amateur when it comes to like figuring out

662
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 3: island Scottish Island mysteries and weather. This one makes a

663
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 3: lot of sense to me.

664
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally agree. So being blown away by wind tuns

665
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: kind of nuts unless you think about it, in which

666
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 1: case it's not super nuts. In this instance, at least,

667
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: there were more slightly nuttier explanations. And like the thing is,

668
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: you can't fully discount any one of these because the

669
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 1: men's bodies were never found, so there was never any

670
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: conclusive proof of what happened, even still to this day,

671
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: and some of the likelier, less likely scenarios seem to

672
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: always focus on Donald MacArthur, who was supposedly a bit

673
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: of a hot head, quick to fists, kind of dude,

674
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: not necessarily the kind of occasional keeper you'd want to

675
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,760
Speaker 1: have on rotation for two weeks with you, But that's

676
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: what a lot of these secondary theories kind of presuppose.

677
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,919
Speaker 2: He would have been the Willem Dafoe, right, I.

678
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,760
Speaker 1: Guess so, yeah, I kind of imagined him as such.

679
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 2: He had got the story from this, didn't he?

680
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: I don't know.

681
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 2: I'm curious that she did.

682
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 1: I don't know.

683
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 2: I'd have to.

684
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:15,959
Speaker 1: Watch it again now that I know that. I hadn't

685
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: even heard of this story when I saw the Lighthouse,

686
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: so I need to watch it again and see what

687
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: I think.

688
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do some research on that.

689
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 3: I doubt if he like based it on this, but

690
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be surprised if it triggered the idea or

691
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 3: something gotcha.

692
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 2: All right?

693
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 3: So he MacArthur was, like he said, a tough guy,

694
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 3: a hot head, and he of course there's gonna be

695
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 3: speculation that he started a fight and they all got

696
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 3: in a big fight and they all fell off the

697
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 3: cliff together. Or maybe he murdered these two guys and

698
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,439
Speaker 3: then knew what his come uppance would be and flung

699
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 3: himself off the cliffs himself in sort of a murder

700
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 3: suicide situation.

701
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, again, it's plausible, like some people can go nuts, like,

702
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: especially in extreme isolation kind of thing. But there's just

703
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: no know evidence whatsoever of any sort of fight. It's

704
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: possible to fight started entirely outside, but it just doesn't

705
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: satisfy all of the evidence, right, I.

706
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 2: Don't think so.

707
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: Like the guy whose weather proof coats were still there

708
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: was Donald MacArthur. So why would he start a fight outside?

709
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 1: And whether that was bad enough that his comrades would

710
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: put on their weather.

711
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 3: Gear, right, or maybe when it comes to fighting, you

712
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 3: don't want that raincoat on.

713
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: I guess maybe you found it restrictive. That's entirely possible too,

714
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: But that's again as far as like these secondary kind

715
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,240
Speaker 1: of paranoid theories go, those make a lot more sense.

716
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: The other ones, sister, are much more squarely in the

717
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: realm of paranormal.

718
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could say that.

719
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 3: The outer hebrides are home of the Kelpie, and the

720
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 3: Kelpie is a water spirit, a shape shifting water spirit

721
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 3: that drowns human victims. But there are two problems with this.

722
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 3: One that is not real, and two even if it

723
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 3: was real, let's just do a thought experiment. Everyone knows

724
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 3: that the Kelpies are not seaside dwellers. They are inland

725
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 3: at the locks.

726
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: Right, They're not known to frequent the seaside.

727
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 2: No, they don't like that saltwater.

728
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: No, so the Kelpies probably did not kill these men

729
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 1: and cart them away.

730
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:23,439
Speaker 2: There's more supernatural there.

731
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, the island being named after Saint Flannin and

732
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: that ruined chapel being there, and the idea that the

733
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,240
Speaker 1: locals just kind of view that island as a weird place.

734
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,760
Speaker 1: There was this one author, a supernatural like a Fortian

735
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: type author who came along and said, all right, I've

736
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: got it. Everybody ready for this. So the locals think

737
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 1: that this place is kind of inhabited by spirits. I'm

738
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,240
Speaker 1: guessing that the pagans who used to live here sacrificed

739
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: people on this island, and that the gods came to

740
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 1: be used to a certain type of sacrifice, and that

741
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: with the Northern Lighthouse Board installed these three men in

742
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,320
Speaker 1: a tower on island More.

743
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:10,280
Speaker 2: It awoke something and.

744
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: The gods mistook it as a sacrifice, so they took

745
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 1: their sacrifice, and that's what happened to the three men.

746
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 3: I think he skipped over the best part of this

747
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 3: whole thing though, what it was an ancient race of

748
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 3: tiny people?

749
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: Well so I can't tell if that guy made that

750
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: part up or if that is actually a local belief,

751
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: but yeah, that was part of it too.

752
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 2: How small were they?

753
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: Supposedly they found small bones that seemingly belonged to humans,

754
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: and so there was a race of tiny people who

755
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 1: supposedly lived there before.

756
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 3: But are we talking like, are they the size of

757
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 3: a of a sea rat or a like two or

758
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:47,760
Speaker 3: three feet tall person?

759
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: Am I Scottish? I don't know, Uh huh, all right, I.

760
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 2: Was just curious a sea rat. He was tiny.

761
00:39:55,400 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: That's a very tiny, tiny person, pagan. But I think

762
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 1: that's really interesting that the idea that the gods mistook

763
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: the lighthouse keepers as a human sacrifice, that's what happened

764
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: to him. I love that one.

765
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 2: It's like a big wicker man or something.

766
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. I think that's exactly the point that I

767
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: was making.

768
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 3: All right, so those are obviously all bunk. What probably

769
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 3: really happened is as follows. And I think this is

770
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 3: a pretty plausible. I think this is pretty plausible.

771
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: Was but even still it's still astounding if you step

772
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: back and look at it.

773
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and there's no way to prove it. So

774
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,359
Speaker 3: it's kind of like these mysteries where you just don't know,

775
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 3: you know. So here's what could have happened. Is that

776
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 3: there was bad weather reported, but it wasn't maybe that

777
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 3: bad on the fifteenth. But let's say that that box

778
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 3: is looser, well, I got to get loose. Let's say

779
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 3: that box needs tending to. That's holding all this stuff.

780
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,919
Speaker 1: Right, it's an important box. Don't forget it's an important box.

781
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 3: And I think Marshall had previously been fined what would

782
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 3: be about twenty pounds a day for having lost some equipment,

783
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 3: so he may have been like really quick to like, hey,

784
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 3: we got to secure that box. And so maybe Ducott

785
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 3: and Marshall went out there to like they left their

786
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 3: quarters while the other dude, the occasional keeper MacArthur, is

787
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 3: up there in the lighthouse still and they're securing this

788
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 3: box down and then maybe this freak wave comes through,

789
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 3: or maybe they just get in trouble, and then MacArthur

790
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 3: needs to really leave quickly, which would explain why they

791
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,479
Speaker 3: did have their rain gear on and MacArthur didn't because

792
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 3: MacArthur had to leave really quickly to go down there

793
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 3: and help these guys.

794
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: Yes, so like that definitely checks all the boxes that

795
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: after that MacArthur was swept away as well. But the

796
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:57,959
Speaker 1: thing is is, like that supposes something really amazing, Chuck,

797
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: that there was a freak wave that the men just

798
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: did not expect that carried at least one of them away.

799
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: The second one who survived that wave ran back to

800
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 1: get help from MacArthur to help get the first guy

801
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: who went in, and a second freak wave washed those

802
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: two away, just cleaning the island of its human inhabitants

803
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 1: in two swift waves over the course of a minute

804
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: or two.

805
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 3: Because the idea is that the storm wasn't bad enough

806
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 3: to just sweep them all away.

807
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the act had to be a rogue wave, right.

808
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: And the steamer the actor noted that the area because

809
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: the actor passed by just a few hours, a couple

810
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 1: hours probably after this event, happened, and they noted that

811
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 1: it was calm but stormy, which is the opposite of

812
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 1: what you would think. You would think it was not

813
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,919
Speaker 1: stormy which would draw the men out to make them

814
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 1: I mean, stormy enough that they needed to secure the box,

815
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 1: but not so stormy that they felt like it couldn't

816
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 1: go out. But calm really kind of makes it. The

817
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: idea of two freak waves really freaky, because that would

818
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: mean that those waves just came out of nowhere and

819
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 1: swallowed the men up.

820
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 3: But in the whole I mean, we did an episode

821
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 3: on rogue waves, and the idea is that it's a wave, yeah,

822
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 3: or is there a set of rogue waves?

823
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: I think if I remember correctly, it was a wave.

824
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: But that's what I think. Maybe there is more. I

825
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,720
Speaker 1: don't know, but yes, that's how this That's the only

826
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 1: way that could happen is because MacArthur wasn't wearing his

827
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 1: rain gear, which suggests that he ran out in a

828
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: hurry into bad weather, which means that one of them

829
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: would have had to have come and gotten him. He

830
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been there with the other two, so it

831
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,399
Speaker 1: could not have just been one freak wave. It would

832
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: have had to have been two successive freak waves that

833
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:46,919
Speaker 1: cleared all three.

834
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,760
Speaker 3: Well, and this does lend some credence to the idea

835
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 3: that this thing was big enough to damage the turf,

836
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 3: you know, two hundred feet above sea level and destroy

837
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 3: that box and wash that two thousand pounds stone down

838
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 3: the cliff too.

839
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And there was also there's a chance that

840
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,720
Speaker 1: all that stuff that just was evidence of a terrible

841
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: storm actually came after the men had been washed away

842
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: from the island several days later, when there was a

843
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 1: really bad storm on December twentieth.

844
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 2: Okay, that makes sense. I didn't think about that.

845
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: Isn't that weird to think that that damage had happened after.

846
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 2: The fact, right? And sure, that makes sense.

847
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: Because it's almost certain that this event happened on December fifteenth.

848
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: The last info they had on the log slate was

849
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,760
Speaker 1: nine am December fifteenth, like we said, so it couldn't

850
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: have happened earlier than that, and it would have happened

851
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: before dark on December fifteenth, which would have happened about

852
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: four pm, because otherwise they would have lit the light

853
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 1: that night and the steamer actor would have seen the

854
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 1: light in the lighthouse as it passed by on December fifteenth.

855
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 2: That's right.

856
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 3: I think all this gets really interesting nineteen fifties when

857
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 3: a lighthouseman named Robert Aldebert who worked there served as

858
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 3: principal keeper between fifty three and fifty seven. He lived there,

859
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 3: obviously had a little time on his hands, and was

860
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 3: really enthralled by this mystery and was like, I'm going

861
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:17,800
Speaker 3: to do some research and I'm going to take a

862
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 3: lot of pictures and do keep a lot of records

863
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 3: in my diary. And he said that, you know, I

864
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:29,359
Speaker 3: was in the lighthouse itself, and and so that's how

865
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 3: many feet above sea level.

866
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 1: They got the top of that seventy five Yeah.

867
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 3: Like two hundreds close to three hundred feet up and

868
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 3: got sea spray from some waves. So he's like, it's

869
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 3: very possible that a big wave could come through and

870
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 3: reach these heights.

871
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. He did tests where he took coils of rope

872
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: and put them on the top of the cliff and

873
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: they get washed away by some of those horrible waves.

874
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: So he basically said it was almost certainly a wave

875
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 1: that got these guys. That's not the craziest part. The

876
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: craziest part is it was two waves, almost like the

877
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 1: sea was waiting for all three of them and took

878
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:01,399
Speaker 1: them all.

879
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 2: It's pretty weird. I wonder if he got fine for

880
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 2: losing those ropes.

881
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe so if it's the Northern Lighthouse Board,

882
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: I know he definitely did well.

883
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 2: And he what was his final exp because he's the one.

884
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 3: That we mentioned earlier that said that that one of

885
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 3: the chairs was turned over in the kitchen, right, like

886
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 3: he kind of bought into that.

887
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, false narrative.

888
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I wonder because this is a good you know,

889
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 1: forty years after that poem had been written, maybe it

890
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: was so woven into the story by then he just

891
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: presumed that it was true or not.

892
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,399
Speaker 3: So how that comes in is he's basically like, all right,

893
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 3: after dinner happens, like there's bad weather going on, these

894
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 3: two guys go out there and are see this doesn't

895
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 3: make sense to me, and I'll tell you why in

896
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 3: a second. But these two guys go out there to

897
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:53,479
Speaker 3: secure this box or whatever, cookies back in there washing

898
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 3: up and cleaning up, and that's where everything's nice and tidy. Yeah,

899
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden they need help, and

900
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 3: so he turns the chair over because he just like

901
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 3: runs out of there real quick. Yeah, but wouldn't that

902
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:05,439
Speaker 3: be wouldn't someone have to be in the light too,

903
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 3: isn't that four guys?

904
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 1: No, that's why they think that this happened in the

905
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: afternoon of the fifteenth, because they never went to light

906
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: the light. They hadn't lived the light yet. Remember the

907
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 1: light was all set up and ready to.

908
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 2: Be lived for the easies. It was daytime, yes, it

909
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 2: was before.

910
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 1: It was before sunset, which would have been before four pm.

911
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 3: All right, that's the one part I didn't get. I

912
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 3: get it now. White House is China night yep, And

913
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 3: I forgot that part when I wrote my movie. Everything

914
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:32,240
Speaker 3: takes place during the day.

915
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: Right, I left the mainland for this. You got anything else?

916
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 2: Good stuff?

917
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 1: No?

918
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 2: I like a good mystery. You're good at finding.

919
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 1: These, man. I love this one, so thank you very much. Yes, well,

920
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 1: if you want to know more about the flann And

921
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: Isles mystery, go read Mike Dash's work on it. It's

922
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: really interesting stuff. It's pretty comprehensive too. And since I

923
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 1: said it's pretty comprehensive, everybody, that means it's time for

924
00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: listener mail.

925
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 3: I thought this is really interesting. This is a follow

926
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 3: up to the Dingoes episode about dingoes not really barking much.

927
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 3: Hey guys, In response to the statement that dingoes don't bark,

928
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 3: you left out a very fun fact and perhaps a

929
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 3: topic for another show. While domesticated dogs bark throughout their lifetimes,

930
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:22,760
Speaker 3: wild adult dogs do not routinely bark. One popular theory

931
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 3: is that domesticated dogs were bred for tameness, which, as

932
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 3: a result, selected for dogs that never reached full maturity.

933
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 3: The upshot of this is that our domesticated dogs are

934
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 3: trapped in a state of suspended adolescence. They are more

935
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:39,720
Speaker 3: or less trapped in puppyhood, an age where all dogs

936
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 3: wild and domestic, bark, play, lick, and, most important of all,

937
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 3: don't kill, which is an important trait for the family

938
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 3: pet and send an article from Tampa Bay dot com

939
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 3: Whys why do dogs Bark? From nineteen ninety one Love

940
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 3: the show That is from of Vonnier vo n I E. R.

941
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 2: Bonier.

942
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, either one of those will work, depending on whether

943
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 1: you're in France or not.

944
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:12,280
Speaker 2: And Peter's a PhD an owl oncology.

945
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 1: Research also with an interest in dog barking.

946
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 2: Sounds like Peter just is interested in stuff, which is

947
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:19,280
Speaker 2: our favorite kind of listening.

948
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 1: Yes, there is a died in the wool Stuff you

949
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 1: Should Know listener. Thanks a lot, Peter. That was a

950
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 1: very interesting email and we appreciate it. Belated congratulations on

951
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 1: your PhD. If you want to get in touch with us,

952
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,240
Speaker 1: like Peter did, you can send us an email, right, Chuck.

953
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:36,720
Speaker 2: You surely can. Then you might get a response even.

954
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, or you might end up on listener mail. Who knows? Yeah,

955
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: I try to answer these Why don't you roll the

956
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: dice and find out by sending your email to Stuff

957
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 1: podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

958
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 2: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

959
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 2: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

960
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite show else