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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone. We wanted to let you know that this

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Speaker 1: is our final episode of season four and Caroline Borega's story,

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Speaker 1: But don't worry, there's a lot more Betrayal coming your way.

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Speaker 1: We will be returning on Thursday, August seventh with a

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Speaker 1: brand new season of Betrayal Weekly. Be sure to subscribe

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Speaker 1: to make sure you never miss an episode, and there's

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Speaker 1: more Betrayal news. If Betrayal is your must listen, you

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Speaker 1: should subscribe to Beyond Betrayal, our new substack community. It's

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Speaker 1: free to join impact with the extras we can't squeeze

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Speaker 1: into the show. Our team shares behind the scenes conversations,

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Speaker 1: never before seen videos, and personal essays from the survivors

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Speaker 1: you've met on the series, including Caroline, Stacey, Ashley, and Me.

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Speaker 1: Upgraded members can even jump into live chats with us.

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Speaker 1: Ready to dig deeper, click the link in the show

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Speaker 1: notes or visit Betrayal dot substack dot com, hit subscribe

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Speaker 1: and join for free today. Okay, now onto the show.

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Speaker 2: There was a woman whose husband was eventually arrested for

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Speaker 2: sexually abusing children in a school, and the police found

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Speaker 2: all these stacks of child pornography sitting around his living

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Speaker 2: room in plain sight, and they interviewed his wife and

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Speaker 2: she said she did not see them. She could have

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Speaker 2: her eyes on them and not see them.

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Speaker 1: I'm Andre Gunning and this is Betrayal, Season four, Episode

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Speaker 1: ten Courage. In our last episode, we closed the book

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Speaker 1: on Caroline's story, but before we end our season, we

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Speaker 1: wanted to dive deeper in to one aspect of Caroline's

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Speaker 1: healing journey.

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Speaker 3: Within a day of Joel's disclosure, I was seeking therapeutic

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Speaker 3: intervention for myself and my kids, and I am grateful

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Speaker 3: for that therapist. She definitely was there for crisis intervention.

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Speaker 3: That being said, though there was never this term betrayal trauma,

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Speaker 3: I never heard the term and our duration of therapy.

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Speaker 3: I'm not faulting her, but I hadn't had anyone actually

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Speaker 3: walk me through the emotions and that how I was

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Speaker 3: feeling was actually a normal part of being betrayed. The

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Speaker 3: reason why I wrote to the podcast was because listening

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Speaker 3: to season one driving with my daughter was life changing.

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Speaker 1: Caroline was on a road trip with Nicole when they

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Speaker 1: came across our first season of Betrayal. This was the

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Speaker 1: first time either of them heard a professional speaking about betrayal. Trauma,

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Speaker 1: and I.

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Speaker 3: Must have played that episode a dozen times. It was

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Speaker 3: just a description that was so empowering and so relatable,

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Speaker 3: and I just wanted to continue to have that connection,

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Speaker 3: even if it was through a podcast.

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Speaker 1: The shame, the guilt. Caroline thought she was alone in

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Speaker 1: these feelings. She had no idea that there were others

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Speaker 1: out there suffering from the same form of trauma. The

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Speaker 1: people who've shared their stories in prior seasons and on

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Speaker 1: the Betrayal Weekly podcast felt the same way.

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Speaker 4: The person I had loved and been in a relationship

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Speaker 4: with disappeared, and with him went three years of my

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Speaker 4: life into a black hole.

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Speaker 2: I was like, what's wrong with me?

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Speaker 3: I was just heartsick, gut sick, heartsick.

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Speaker 4: My whole body responded in All I could think of

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Speaker 4: was who are you?

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Speaker 2: How could you do this?

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Speaker 1: All these people experience betrayal trauma. It's the thread that

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Speaker 1: binds all the stories we tell. And we got the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to speak to the person who coined the term

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Speaker 1: betrayal trauma in the first place. She is a retired

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Speaker 1: research psychologist who pioneered the field of betrayal trauma. So

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Speaker 1: to close out our season, we wanted to share parts

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Speaker 1: of our conversation with you.

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Speaker 2: My name is Jennifer Fried. I was a university professor

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Speaker 2: at the University of Oregon most of my career, where

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Speaker 2: I taught psychology and did a lot of research, specifically

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Speaker 2: developing betrayal trauma theory, the concept of betrayal blindness all

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Speaker 2: the way through to institutional courage.

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Speaker 1: After going to graduate school for cognitive psychology, doctor Fried

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Speaker 1: made her way to the University of Oregon.

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Speaker 2: Some years into my time at the University of Oregon,

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Speaker 2: I really changed pivoted the kind of research I was

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Speaker 2: doing to the psychology of trauma.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Fried started compiling research on a specific form of trauma,

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Speaker 1: the kind you experience when someone close to you breaks

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Speaker 1: your trust.

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Speaker 2: At the time, in the early nineteen nineties, there was

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Speaker 2: still within academic psychology a disbelief in the prevalence of trauma,

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Speaker 2: particularly interpersonal, particularly sexual trauma, as well as its significance

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Speaker 2: or importance. And I remember very well in around oh

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Speaker 2: maybe nineteen ninety one, ish I gave a talk in

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Speaker 2: my own department about my new research and ideas, and

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Speaker 2: people were just like looking at me like I had

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Speaker 2: gotten nuts.

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Speaker 1: Still, she kept going. She knew there was something here.

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Speaker 1: Eventually this pattern developed into a theory, a theory of

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Speaker 1: betrayal trauma.

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Speaker 2: A betrayal trauma is when somebody that you depend on

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Speaker 2: and trust does something that harms you. It's that combination

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Speaker 2: of harm with the nature of the relationship you have

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Speaker 2: with the person the victim perpetrator relationships.

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Speaker 1: Betrayal trauma theory accounts for how we process traumas differently

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Speaker 1: when they're perpetrated by someone close to us. And there

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Speaker 1: was always one aspect of processing betrayal at Intrigue, doctor Fried,

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Speaker 1: how people can block out experiences like childhood abuse or

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Speaker 1: sexual assault, or how they can forget moments when they

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Speaker 1: caught a partner and a lie.

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Speaker 2: Betrayal trauma theory was always about understanding how and why

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Speaker 2: people could forget seemingly extremely important experiences and events in

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Speaker 2: their life, very important traumas.

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Speaker 1: This is something we've seen over and over again on

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Speaker 1: our show. We've received emails from people of all ages, professions,

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Speaker 1: and backgrounds who say they didn't see what was right

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Speaker 1: in front of them. Here's the thing, not seeing when

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Speaker 1: someone close to you is betraying you. It isn't just denial,

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Speaker 1: it's a very real psychological experience, one that doctor Fried

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Speaker 1: has spent her career researching. She gave us an example

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Speaker 1: she uses in one of her books.

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Speaker 2: There was a woman whose husband was eventually arrested for

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Speaker 2: sexually abusing children in a school. And the police raided

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Speaker 2: his house and found all these stacks of child pornography

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Speaker 2: sitting around his living room in plain sight. And they

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Speaker 2: interviewed his wife, and she said she did not see them.

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Speaker 2: She would look at the coffee table and she would

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Speaker 2: not see them. She could have her eyes on them

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Speaker 2: and not see them.

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Speaker 1: When I read doctor Fried's book Blind to Betrayal, I

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Speaker 1: was struck by another story, a story of a woman

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Speaker 1: who decided to visit her husband at his go to bar.

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Speaker 1: She was waiting there to surprise him, and when her

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Speaker 1: husband showed up, another woman approached him and kissed him.

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Speaker 1: He explained it away, and the wife forgot about the

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Speaker 1: kiss for years. At first, these two examples seem unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: How can people fail to see what's right in front

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Speaker 1: of them or forget experiences entirely?

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Speaker 2: How does that happen? And why does that happen? And

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Speaker 2: the answer that I provided that I came to call

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Speaker 2: betrayal blindness was that it's a survival mechanism.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Fried explained that our brains block out information that

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Speaker 1: could threaten vital relationships.

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Speaker 2: We are programmed to fall in love with people we

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Speaker 2: take care of, and people we take care of are

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Speaker 2: also programmed to fall in love with us. We have

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Speaker 2: a really strong attachment system, and it's a good it's

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Speaker 2: a beautiful thing. It makes life worth living. Is this

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Speaker 2: love that we feel? I mean, it keeps us alive.

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Speaker 1: Think of a child relying on a parent. The child

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Speaker 1: depends on that parent for love, food, and shelter, and

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Speaker 1: the child trusts the parent to continue to care for them.

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Speaker 2: But here's the problem. What happens if you've got an

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Speaker 2: abusive parent? What happens if the parent is the betrayer.

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Speaker 2: If you withdraw or confront, you risk not getting your

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Speaker 2: survival needs met at all, or you may get more abuse.

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Speaker 2: It's not safe. The solution out of that is what

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Speaker 2: I came to call betrayal blindness. The attachment system matters more.

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Speaker 2: It's great to detect betrayal, but attachment matters more if

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Speaker 2: it's keeping you alive.

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Speaker 1: Our brains are constantly making choices about what information matters.

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Speaker 2: Most humans are amazing in how they filter information. We

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Speaker 2: do it all the time. We sort information out as

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Speaker 2: it's coming into the eyes and the ears and the nose.

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Speaker 1: That filtering happens subconsciously. We don't notice it, but we've

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Speaker 1: all experienced it. Like when you're in a crowded room.

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Speaker 2: Even though there's twenty people talking at the same time,

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Speaker 2: you're not going to hear other parts of the conversation,

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Speaker 2: but suddenly your name pops out you or you know,

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Speaker 2: if there's a really juicy topic they're talking about, some

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Speaker 2: good gossip over in the corner, you might suddenly be

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Speaker 2: aware of that conversation. All that time, your brain has

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Speaker 2: been filtering out the information coming in and kind of

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Speaker 2: deciding which parts of it to be aware of. Because

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Speaker 2: we can't be aware of everything at once.

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Speaker 1: It can be unsettling to think about, but our brains

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Speaker 1: are always selecting what we perceive and how we interpret

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Speaker 1: that information, and when terrible things happen, our brains work

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Speaker 1: to preserve important relationships. We can subconsciously delete information, or

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Speaker 1: sometimes even when we know the information, when we saw

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Speaker 1: and experienced something firsthand, our brain can create an entirely

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Speaker 1: new story It's.

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Speaker 2: Not just that we can block out information and not

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Speaker 2: see things right in front of us or not remember

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Speaker 2: things that happen. There are other ways we can twist reality.

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Speaker 2: So for some people, the way they engage in betrayal blindness,

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Speaker 2: they see the events happening, they remember it, but they

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Speaker 2: twist around who's response, so they blame themselves, not the

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Speaker 2: person who's harming them.

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Speaker 1: Like doctor Fried explained, this is a survival mechanism. That's

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Speaker 1: why she first conceptualized betrayal blindness using the parent child relationship,

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Speaker 1: because it's an essential relationship for that child survival. But

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Speaker 1: adults experience betrayal blindness too.

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Speaker 2: For many people, their intimate marriage or partnership relationships have

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Speaker 2: these same dynamics, where one party feels very dependent on

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Speaker 2: the other. They may be financially dependent, they may be

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Speaker 2: emotionally dependent, they may have been betrayed themselves in childhood,

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Speaker 2: whatever it is. Adults can also have terrible betrayal blindness,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes that is also serving a major survival benefit.

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Speaker 2: If you are dependent on your partner and your partner's

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Speaker 2: betraying you and you confront her with draw, you risk

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Speaker 2: potentially losing access to resources you need. It's serving an

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Speaker 2: enormous survival benefit for many people in many situations, but

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Speaker 2: it does come at a cost. If you don't see it,

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Speaker 2: it's hard to stop it, it's hard to get help,

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Speaker 2: it's hard to get justice if you don't see it.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Jennifer Fried is the leading expert on betrayal trauma,

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Speaker 1: but she also has researched the psychology of people that

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Speaker 1: commit betrayals. She has identified common tactics that perpetrators use

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Speaker 1: to keep victims quiet. She calls this collection of tactics DARVO.

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Speaker 2: DARVO is an acronym that stands for deny, attack, and

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Speaker 2: reverse victim and offender, and it's a tactic that perpetrators

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Speaker 2: can use when they're being held accountable for a misbehavior.

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Speaker 1: We asked doctor Fried to break down the elements of DARVO.

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Speaker 2: The denial typically is aggressive, a little over the top,

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Speaker 2: very angry denial. The attack is often an attack on credibility.

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Speaker 2: It often takes the form of saying you know you

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Speaker 2: are drunk, or you're mentally unhealthy, or they're sitting wrong

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Speaker 2: with your memory. And the RVO is the most insidious part.

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Speaker 2: This is reversing victim and offender, and this is when

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Speaker 2: the true victim gets put into the offender role by

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Speaker 2: daring to, you know, make this accusation.

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Speaker 1: Even just hearing this description, we thought of Caroline's story

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Speaker 1: like the time she heard about Joel having an affair

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Speaker 1: with their tenant. Joel denied the accusation, and he even

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Speaker 1: went with Caroline to confront her.

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Speaker 5: This psychopath is got me on the road to the divorce.

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Speaker 5: My kids won't be out of the house.

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Speaker 1: Instead of taking accountability, he made himself the victim. Then

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Speaker 1: there was the moment Caroline confronted Joel about lying about

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Speaker 1: where he was in the middle of the night. He

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Speaker 1: said he was at an accident scene, but his location

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Speaker 1: on Life three sixty told a different story. Caroline described

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Speaker 1: Joel exhibiting the first element of darvo denial.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, that had to be a wrong cell

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Speaker 4: phone tower pinging and I was not even close to their.

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Speaker 1: Then the second element, Joel attacked her.

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Speaker 2: Why would you say that? Don't you think I want

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Speaker 2: to be home?

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Speaker 1: And finally the third element, Joel reversed the victim and offender.

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Speaker 1: He made her feel as though she had done something wrong.

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Speaker 4: I start feeling guilty for asking him something that I

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Speaker 4: factually see and then I start doubting myself and almost

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Speaker 4: believing could a self on.

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Speaker 3: Tower being wrong on life three sixty?

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Speaker 5: Is that?

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Speaker 2: Is that even possible? We found that one of the

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Speaker 2: consequences of being darvoed when somebody does that to you

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Speaker 2: is blaming yourself. When people blame themselves, they're much more

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Speaker 2: likely to go silent, and so if the perpetrator's goal

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Speaker 2: is to get the victim to be silent, darvo has

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Speaker 2: that effect too.

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Speaker 1: This strategy worked on Caroline. It kept her doubting herself

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Speaker 1: instead of doubting Joel and darvo is not just a

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Speaker 1: tactic used interpersonally. It's commonly used in trials.

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Speaker 2: It's often a technique used by defense attorneys in say

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Speaker 2: a sexual abuse case, where the defense attorney will very

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Speaker 2: consciously deny on behalf of their client the event happened

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Speaker 2: and attacked the credibility of the victim, and then reverse

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Speaker 2: victim and offender by painting the true victim as the

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Speaker 2: offender in the situation.

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Speaker 1: This also made us think of Joel and how he

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Speaker 1: shifted the blame onte his home life during his internal

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Speaker 1: Affairs interviews. We played Doctor Fried this tape from when

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Speaker 1: he was investigated for sexually harassing reporters.

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Speaker 5: I'm sorry, right, things were good at home, and I

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Speaker 5: think I fell into the trap of, you know, being

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Speaker 5: excited about the attention.

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Speaker 2: What he does in the clip is really puts himself

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Speaker 2: into the victim role, you know, that crying and the

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Speaker 2: way he's painting himself. You know, he's a person who

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Speaker 2: we might want to feel sorry for. He sort of

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Speaker 2: put himself in the position of the one being wronged.

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Speaker 1: In this next clip, Joel goes even farther. When internal

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Speaker 1: affairs demanded accountability for having sex in his police car,

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Speaker 1: he put the responsibility of his rehabilitation on the police department.

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Speaker 1: In his interview as part of the IA investigation, he

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Speaker 1: said the following, we pay a lot of.

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Speaker 6: Loop service about our employees as our family and all that.

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Speaker 6: But I like to maybe somehow believe in that and

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Speaker 6: recognize that I've had issues, and I've had issues for

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Speaker 6: a long long time, and every day is a struggle

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Speaker 6: and I want help.

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Speaker 2: There may be a truth to all that, in the

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Speaker 2: sense that he has issues and it's been a traumatic job,

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Speaker 2: but it's a way to deflect responsibility regarding his own

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Speaker 2: behavior in a police car with this woman.

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Speaker 1: Fried can't speak to Joel's specific psychological profile, but she

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Speaker 1: says in her research she's learned a lot about the

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Speaker 1: kinds of people who use DARVO.

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Speaker 2: People that use darvo are quite a bit more likely

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Speaker 2: to also engage in sexually harassing behaviors.

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Speaker 1: Once again, Joel appeared to align with the profile Doctor

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Speaker 1: Fried developed. You may recall from an earlier episode, his

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Speaker 1: behavior had grown so disruptive that he was eventually banned

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Speaker 1: from the family doctor's office. Caroline learned the truth when

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Speaker 1: she went to get tested for STDs.

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Speaker 4: And so she does a full exam and she leaves

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Speaker 4: the room, and when she came back in, she just

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Speaker 4: had this horrible kind of fearful look on her face.

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Speaker 4: And I just was sobbing, and I said, you can

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Speaker 4: tell I have something, can't You can already tell I

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Speaker 4: have something? And she shook her head and she said no,

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Speaker 4: And she said she was debating on telling me that

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Speaker 4: Joel had essentially been blacklisted from seeing her because he

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Speaker 4: had come in four different appointments before and had been

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Speaker 4: and appropriate with his commentary. I'm very sexualized with his

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Speaker 4: commentary toward her, and I was mortified.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Fried offered more details about people who use darvo.

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Speaker 2: They are more likely to hold beliefs that blame women

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Speaker 2: for being victims, and they are more likely to have

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Speaker 2: certain personality characteristics three in particular that are often called

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Speaker 2: the Dark triad narcissism, machia, alianism, and psychopathy.

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Speaker 1: People with Dark triad characteristics can be cunning, self interested,

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Speaker 1: and manipulative. They often lack empathy and are willing to

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Speaker 1: exploit others to achieve their goals.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't mean if somebody uses darvau they are for

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Speaker 2: sure any of those things, just it's just much more likely.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Fried's research does offer one encouraging insight.

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Speaker 2: We find if we educate people about darva, it reduces

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Speaker 2: the power of darvaux. If people know that this is

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Speaker 2: a pattern, they're not as swayed by it.

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Speaker 1: We've been talking to betrayal trauma researcher doctor Jennifer Fried.

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Speaker 1: Her groundbreaking work has transformed how we understand and support

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Speaker 1: victims of betrayal. One reason we wanted to speak with

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Speaker 1: her for this season is her focus on a concept

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Speaker 1: she's termed institutional betrayal.

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Speaker 2: Institutional betrayal in its broadest sense, is when the perpetrator

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Speaker 2: of a betrayal is just something larger than one person.

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Speaker 2: So families are little tiny institutions. It can be a family,

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Speaker 2: it can be you know, the workplace. It can be

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Speaker 2: the church, or the school, or the government. It's the

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Speaker 2: larger entity that is betraying somebody who is dependent on

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Speaker 2: that institution, cares for it, very often loves the institution.

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Speaker 2: So the dynamics of betrayal trauma all apply to institution betrayal.

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Speaker 1: After Joel was exposed, no one in the department came

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Speaker 1: to Caroline's aid. She felt shut out and alone. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Fred's research confirms this added layer of betrayal can be devastating.

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Speaker 2: People are very vulnerable to being hurt by institutions they

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Speaker 2: trust it and depend on fail to protect them, fail

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Speaker 2: to respond well. When they've been harmed in that institution,

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Speaker 2: it's a whole new level of harm. I sometimes think

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Speaker 2: about like the second concussion, where you know it's bad

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Speaker 2: to be hitting the head once, but then you go

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Speaker 2: and you hit the head again. That's, you know, way worse.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Fred explains the way we depend on institutions is

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Speaker 1: a lot like the way we depend on people in

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Speaker 1: our lives.

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Speaker 2: Almost everyone has some institution they love. Most people love

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Speaker 2: their family, most people love their church if they have one,

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Speaker 2: or their school. They have emotional attachments, and the institutions

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Speaker 2: can't actually love you back. But it doesn't stop people

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Speaker 2: from loving the institutions. And that's not a bad thing

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Speaker 2: that we love institutions, just a very human thing, but

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Speaker 2: it does make us vulnerable to the harm of betrayal.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Fried found this idea of institutional betrayal deeply troubling,

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Speaker 1: but it also felt like an exciting issue to tackle

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Speaker 1: when doctor Fried and her students could have a real

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Speaker 1: impact on.

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Speaker 2: It's actually easier to think about fixing an institution than

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Speaker 2: fixing all the interpersonal violence in the United States, and

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Speaker 2: we developed steps one can take to make institutions less betraying.

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Speaker 1: These steps and the idea that institutions can prevent further

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Speaker 1: betrayal big up doctor Fried's theory of institutional courage. One

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Speaker 1: of the main steps is transparency.

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Speaker 2: Betrayal really loves secrecy and really doesn't survive transparency very

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Speaker 2: well at all. In families where you've got institutional betrayal occurring,

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Speaker 2: there's almost always secrets. They're things that aren't known, can't

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Speaker 2: be talked about and most therapists of healthy family systems

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Speaker 2: will tell you that secrets are bad for families, and

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Speaker 2: the more that can be shared openly and transparently the better.

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Speaker 2: The more transparency, the less likely these betraying things will occur.

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Speaker 1: This made us think of Caroline too. She made the

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Speaker 1: choice to be very transparent with her children about what

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Speaker 1: Joel had done. We asked doctor Fried for her opinion

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Speaker 1: on this.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting because if you were talking about eight to

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Speaker 2: nine year olds, this would be a tougher issue. With children,

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Speaker 2: you know, you have to be sensitive to their developmental

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Speaker 2: stage and not overwhelm them with information they may not

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Speaker 2: really have a way to understand. By the time you're sixteen,

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Speaker 2: that's no longer really an issue. Sixteen, seventeen, and certainly

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Speaker 2: nineteen twenty year olds are fully capable of understanding these

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Speaker 2: sources of issues and are only going to benefit from

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Speaker 2: honesty and only going to suffer from secrets.

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Speaker 1: She also brought up that this isn't just a question

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Speaker 1: of knowing or not knowing. Transparency in this case is

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Speaker 1: key to ensuring the cycle of trail ends with Joel.

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Speaker 2: Secrecy is corrosive. Secrecy allows dysfunctional harmful patterns to repeat

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Speaker 2: over and over again. One way to think about this

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Speaker 2: is in terms of what's the probability that our teenager

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Speaker 2: who grows up in a family like this goes on

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Speaker 2: to repeat this dynamic as an adult, versus the probability

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Speaker 2: they go on to have a healthy relationship when they

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Speaker 2: develop their own family. The more things are hidden, unspoken secret,

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Speaker 2: the more likely they are to just repeat it. One

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Speaker 2: of the best ways to kind of innoculate people from

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Speaker 2: repeating dysfunctional family dynamics is to really shine a light

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Speaker 2: on them and be fully honest about what was messed up,

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Speaker 2: giving people that conscious awareness so they can choose not

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Speaker 2: to repeat that.

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Speaker 1: We played Doctor Fried a clip of Caroline Son speaking

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Speaker 1: about this issue.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to know everything. The truth hurt, but it

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Speaker 2: was powerful and it was needed. That was the only

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Speaker 2: way to move forward. One of the things that struck

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Speaker 2: me in that clip was how much courage this young

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Speaker 2: man has as well. It's not like he wants to

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Speaker 2: learn that his father's done harmful things. It takes courage

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Speaker 2: to learn that, but it does make it possible for

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Speaker 2: him to support the other family members in a really

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Speaker 2: meaningful way, and for him to go and develop his

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Speaker 2: own life without repeating this harmful pattern.

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Speaker 1: The need for transparency also applies to larger institutions. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Fried pointed to the issue of sexual assault in the military.

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Speaker 2: What people who've experienced that very often say is that

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Speaker 2: when they went to the authorities in the military to

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Speaker 2: report what had happened, what happened after that from the

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Speaker 2: authorities of the military was even worse than the sexual

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Speaker 2: assault in the first place.

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Speaker 1: When victims aren't taken seriously or investigations are dropped or

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Speaker 1: covered up, it adds to the pain.

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Speaker 2: We've compared groups of military sexual trauma survivors who went

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Speaker 2: on to have an institutional betrayal experience versus ones who didn't.

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Speaker 2: Everybody you know had bad effects from the sexual trauma,

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Speaker 2: but the ones who went on to have institutional betrayal

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Speaker 2: on top of that, we're doing much worse. In fact,

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Speaker 2: we're even more likely to attempt suicide. That's how bad

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Speaker 2: it is. So we know from now dozens of studies

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Speaker 2: that institutional betrayal harms people over and above the interpersonal

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Speaker 2: betrayals they've experienced.

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Speaker 1: The institution can counteract this by taking accountability for the

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Speaker 1: wrongs for being complicit or even directly eating in betrayal.

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Speaker 2: If they have the courage to really look at what's happened,

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Speaker 2: then they can move forward in a healthier way.

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Speaker 1: This examination is especially needed when the perpetrator walks away.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that can really help healing is

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Speaker 2: having a community that validates the reality. Even if the

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Speaker 2: betrayer never fully discloses or fully takes account a community

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Speaker 2: around them.

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Speaker 1: Ken Caroline may never get that validation from the CSPD,

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Speaker 1: but doctor Fried says Caroline is doing what she can

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Speaker 1: to take healing into her own hands.

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Speaker 2: There's a wonderful quote that I won't get exactly right

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Speaker 2: from trauma therist Judith Hermann. The antidote to despair is activism,

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Speaker 2: and activism can take many pass It sounds like in

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Speaker 2: Caroline's case, her telling her story is activism because she's

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Speaker 2: being courageous. She's sharing her vulnerability, her personal pain, all

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Speaker 2: with the hope that it will help other people.

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Speaker 1: Thank you to doctor Jennifer Fried. If you want to

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Speaker 1: learn more about betrayal trauma, we highly recommend her book

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Speaker 1: Blind to Betrayal. You can also check out the Center

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Speaker 1: for Institutional Courage, a nonprofit founded by doctor Fried. It's

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Speaker 1: dedicated to understanding institutional betrayal and the steps needed to

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Speaker 1: prevent and counteract it through institutional courage. We've linked the

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Speaker 1: book and the nonprofit in the show notes. This is

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Speaker 1: the final episode of season four, Caroline Story. If this

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00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: story resonated with you, or if you have a betrayal

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00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: experience of your own to share, you can write to

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Speaker 1: us at Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com. We'll be

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00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,239
Speaker 1: back with new weekly stories starting August seventh. Thank you

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00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: for listening to Betrayal season four. If you would like

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Speaker 1: to reach out to the Betrayal team, email us at

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Speaker 1: Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod at

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00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. Also, please be sure to follow us

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00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: at Glass Podcasts on Instagram for all Betrayal content, news

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00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: and updates. One way to support the series is by

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00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. Please rate and

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00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: review Betrayal. Five star reviews help us know you appreciate

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Speaker 1: what we do. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts,

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00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: a division of Glass Entertainment Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts.

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Speaker 1: The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason.

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Speaker 1: Betrayal is hosted and produced by me Andrea Gunning, written

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00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: and produced by Kerry Hartman and Caitlin Golden, story editing

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00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: and producing by Monique Labourd, also produced by Ben Fetterman.

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Speaker 1: Our associate producer is Kristin Melcury. Our iHeart team is

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00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: Ali Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Audio editing and mixing by

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00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: Matt Ovechio, editing by Tanner Robbins, and special thanks to

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00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: Caroline and her family. Betrayal's theme is composed by Oliver Baines.

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Speaker 1: Music library provided by my Music and For more podcasts

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Speaker 1: from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts,