WEBVTT - One Step Forward, Two Steps Back 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.759 Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:08.240 This episode contains discussion of suicide. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:15.720 So many stories half told and half heard, so many 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:21.400 grim intimations, so many obfuscating euphemisms. We were a classic 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:27.880 New England family, incapable of discussing such things openly, everything 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:31.840 enveloped in a haze of mystery and shame. There was 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:34.720 nothing I could do with the questions that I had, 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:38.640 the unmanageable anger and fear and nameless other feelings. I 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.879 was having no place to put it all, so I 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:46.880 kept it inside. When you can't talk about something, you're 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:50.400 prevented from naming and describing it, from making it real. 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.720 And what you can't name and describe and make real 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:58.960 becomes infinite and limitless and impossible to decipher or resolve, 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:02.480 because it can band to fill your whole life and 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:07.000 self to its tiniest corners, or it can shrink to nothing, 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:11.400 nothing being the size of things that are not real. 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:22.520 You are alone with it, with yourself, with this unsolvable problem. 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:26.320 That's Isaac Fitzgerald, frequent contributor to The Today Show and 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:30.280 author of the New York Times bestselling memoir Dirt bag, Massachusetts. 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:34.400 Isaac's is a story about the intricate dance between shame 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:39.080 and secrecy, and the complex process of putting our burdens down, 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:43.640 then picking them up again, and onward we go, doing 0:01:43.680 --> 0:02:00.840 our best, trying, failing, failing better. I'm Danny Shapiro and 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:04.080 this is family secrets, the secrets that are kept from us, 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:06.920 the secrets we keep from others, and the secrets we 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:08.800 keep from ourselves. 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:18.880 So my parents were married when they had me, just 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:23.800 to different people. And that is a line that I've 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:26.960 used throughout my life, and it is a line that 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:30.800 I learned very early in my life. As I grew older, 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:33.200 I did get to know my parents better and I 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.560 did get to hear more of their history. They met 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:39.920 at Theology School, of all places, to have an affair. 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:45.320 My mother was married to a Unitarian minister. My father 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:49.160 was I think, a very smart man, but a bit 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.639 at sea, a bit lost, and had gone to school 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:55.480 maybe to try and find an anchor of some sort, 0:02:56.000 --> 0:03:00.519 and instead they found each other. My mom's family could 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.760 be a bit harsh, would be one way to put it. 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.320 Is a very common New England family. Could be another 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:08.919 way to put it, which is to say a little 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:14.079 withholding a little judgmental. My father came from an Irish family, 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:17.360 a little more open, a little more joyful, but his 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:21.480 parents had both been mill workers, my mother's parents farmers, 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:26.760 and so they both came from little meets. When they met, 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:32.280 fell in love, had an affair. Eventually, my mother told 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:35.840 my father that it couldn't go on. She cut it off. 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:39.280 They both had young children, my half brother and my 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:43.520 half sister, and not long after that my mom realized 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:47.680 that she was pregnant with me. So the way that 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:51.640 I viewed the landscape of my childhood for many years 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:55.520 was that I was a bomb that blew up my parents' lives, 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.920 and not just their lives, but the lives of their partner, 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:04.440 the lives of their children, my half siblings. I felt 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:08.600 like I'd really come in and wrecked a lot of things. 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.800 And it took me a lifetime to recognize that that 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:14.400 kind of shameful version of the story that I held 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.720 with me for so long was, of course, not the 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:19.839 full story, and not the way that even my parents 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:22.600 would describe it, That my siblings would describe it, even 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:28.000 their partners would describe it. So that was their story, 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:32.800 and then for me my childhood. The earliest years on 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:36.280 paper would be the ones you might think were the worst, 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:39.600 which is both of my parents kind of rejected from 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:43.680 their families, eventually telling their partners the truth, didn't have 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:46.880 a home and said they turned to the Catholic Worker. 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:49.839 If you're unfamiliar with the Catholic Worker started by Dorothy Day, 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:55.640 it is a socialist, really believing in the Bible, give 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:59.039 the shirt off your back to help your neighbor. Organization 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:04.720 much less Vatican, much less you know, opulence, and much more. 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:08.160 How can we help one another? And that is the situation. 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:11.200 I was raised and raised in an unhaf shelter, eventually 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.599 making our way to a place called John Larry House, 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:16.920 which is kind of like a halfway home run by 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:20.000 the Catholic Worker. You look at that on paper and 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:22.400 you'd think, oh, those must have been the hard years. 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.520 But in this interesting way, those were the happiest years 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:26.599 of my life. 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:31.599 So those years, you know, up until age eight, you're 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:35.600 living in these facilities that are under the auspices of 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:40.440 the Catholic Worker. Correct, does it feel like a community? Literally? 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:41.800 The landscape? What was it like? 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:45.440 You know? I remember this big sign that I'm pretty sure, 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:49.560 said like no drugs, no drinking, no violence. There were 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:53.039 people from of course, all different types of backgrounds, but 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:57.719 you had altercations. Absolutely difficult place to have a kid. 0:05:57.960 --> 0:05:59.320 Were there other kids around. 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:01.800 Not many, every once in a while, but for the 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:05.240 most part is a very adult place. But the other 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:09.880 aspect of it is it was this incredible community and 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:12.200 people for the most part. Of course, you had your 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:15.800 moments of sharpness or violence, but for the most part, 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:18.760 what you had were people watching out for one another, 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:22.000 were people taking care of one another. I was a 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:25.280 very talkative kid. I was a very inquisitive kid. I'm 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:29.080 sure at times, especially somebody with a hangover or just 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:31.240 having a really rough day, I'm sure I annoyed the 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:34.240 heck out of them. But for every one of those moments, 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:37.039 there were so many people who tried to be charming 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:39.360 to me, who would tell me stories, who would try 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:43.840 to entertain me with magic tricks or long tales. There 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:46.359 was one guy named Albert. He always called me the Captain. 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:48.599 I don't know why he called me the Captain, but 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.760 I know that I loved it so so much, And 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:54.800 so it was also this really joyous, wonderful place. I 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:57.960 mean the food. It wasn't going to win any awards, 0:06:58.000 --> 0:06:59.880 but there was a lot of it, and everybody was 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:03.280 sharing and everybody lended a hand. And that's what I 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:06.240 really remember. And I remember my parents very early on 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:10.640 went from this situation where they were there because they 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.080 didn't have a place to go. But the more they 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:16.760 became involved with the community, the stronger they got. And 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.160 that was something that I even as a child, I 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:22.280 could just kind of feel that, and so that place 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:24.960 was very very special to me. 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:30.560 And how was your parents' marriage during those years, How 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.320 did that period of time kind of impact them? 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:35.880 Well, so that's I mean, this is the thing. They 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:39.400 were trying to get their feet under them. They were 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.920 both in their early to mid thirties, and through the 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:47.400 Catholic worker they eventually got jobs, and then they eventually 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:50.400 got better jobs. And so it gets to the point 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:53.400 where my mother's working at the Cathedral the Holy Cross 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:57.000 there in Boston and my father gets a job at 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:03.920 a Catholic school teacher. Incredible. It's an incredible moment and 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:06.080 something I think they both felt very proud of. But 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:09.560 at the same time, you know, I'm not blowing anybody 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:13.200 away by saying being poor is very very hard. Getting 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:16.440 on your feet is very very hard. Especially you can 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:18.320 have the support of the Catholic worker. But when you're 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.880 lacking support from family and maybe you're feeling shameful about 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.200 everything that's happened, you know, life can be confusing and 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:29.360 can be complex. So their marriage was already I would 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:35.120 argue difficult. I think they were really thrown together in 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:37.880 all these different ways, and one of those ways was 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.440 me like, they made this commitment to stay together and 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:44.640 figure it out. And so there are arguments. There were 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:48.559 difficult times, but for the most part, even with the difficulties, 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:50.840 those were the good years. And then it's when me 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:54.000 and my mother moved to north central Massachusetts that things 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:55.000 really took a turn. 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:59.720 Right. You're right about this very It's sweet and touching 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:02.040 and sort of funny and ironic all at once. But 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:04.440 the place that you were living was not far from 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:11.559 Fenway Park in Boston, and your father would get the 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:14.120 you know, the cheapest, cheapest, cheapest seats, you know, way 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.920 high up, and then you'd find your way down to 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:19.600 the really good seats that people had that were empty. 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:22.559 And then if an usher came along and checked your tickets, 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:25.160 your father would say, oh please, it's you know, if 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:28.360 nobody's using these seats, it's my son's first game. And 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:30.760 you write, I mean I must have had one hundred 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:34.080 first games at Fenway Park. And there was something so 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:36.480 I mean, on the one hand, your father's you know, 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.520 was a man of faith. He's doing something that's like 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:44.160 not so not so kosher, shall we say, And on 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:46.080 the other hand, it's this very loving thing to do 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.280 that he just constantly wants to have. You have that experience. 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:51.480 It's a moment filled of love, and that's why I 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:54.199 remember it so warmly. But yeah, it was this absolute 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:56.560 act of love on his part, and that is something 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:01.199 that I credit both of my parents. They had tough 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.760 decisions to make. They failed in a lot of ways, 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.120 I don't want to shy away from that, but they 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:09.640 also had these moments of brilliance. And I think that's 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:13.640 what makes families so complex, especially when you want to 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.559 portray it with all its dirty parts, but also all 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:18.800 its good parts too. You know, these are human beings 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.160 that are doing their best for all their faults and 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:23.680 all the struggles that they had. When I was young, 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:26.680 another thing they gave me was just a love of books, 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.560 a love of literature. No matter where we lived. You know, 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:32.640 a lot of the furniture we'd find on the street 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.080 or whatever, but they always made sure that our books 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.120 came with us. They were taking me to the library 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.320 whenever they weren't working, whenever they had the chance to. 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:45.480 They weren't giving me this cookie cutter, happy suburban childhood, 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:47.640 but they wanted to make sure that I at least 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:51.160 felt won the power of education, but to the power 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:54.040 of imagination. And so you bring up my dad being 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:55.959 a man of faith, which is absolutely the truth of 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:59.520 my mother too, a woman of faith. But in that moment, 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:02.000 I think for he loved a little bit of a story. 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:05.240 He loved a little bit of an imagination of a 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:08.120 little bit of a con in a way, especially you know, 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:09.920 when there was nobody that was actually going to get 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:14.200 hurt by it. And that was that fun way part story. 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:19.520 Isaac's parents are indeed bound by their faith, their faith 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:23.480 in Catholicism as well as their faith in literature. These 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:27.119 become obsessions for them, and in turn, they become obsessions 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:30.800 for Isaac too. This can happen when parents are hard 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.320 to hold onto. It's almost as if their obsessions and 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:39.680 values become proxies for themselves, so Isaac holds on tight. 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:45.000 Things change for Isaac and his family when, at age eight, 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:46.679 he is mugged at gunpoint. 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:50.960 I was taking a shortcut home that of course, I 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:54.520 was told one hundred times not to take. The person 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.680 who was mugging me apologizes, and at the time, I 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:00.920 remember feeling like I was being really brave. And then 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.320 I looked down and without even knowing it, I'd wet 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:07.120 myself and that's that's why the person apologized. I have 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:09.640 other memories of that time period. There was a Halloween 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:11.440 where a woman got in the head with a bottle. 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:13.960 There you know, somebody had been shot on the front steps. 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:17.319 There was blood on the sidewalk. My parents had been 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:21.319 working to get their feet under them, and I think 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.040 they were starting to feel My father was becoming more 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:26.680 secure in his role as an educator. My mother was 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:28.720 feeling more secure in the role that she'd had at 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:31.480 the Cathedral of the Holy Cross. She'd learned these skills, 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:33.640 she knew how she could apply them to other jobs. 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:37.520 I think they started to realize we want to be 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:41.719 in a better place. But like everything I'm saying here, right, 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:45.880 there's the romantic version. They're arguing a lot more. And 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.920 I think my mom maybe needed a break, and so 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.000 we moved to north central mass which is right next 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:51.880 to her parents. 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:56.240 Right, and so it being right next to her parents' place, 0:12:57.600 --> 0:12:59.840 you know, in one world, could be a great thing, 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.839 but that in fact comes with a lot of challenges. 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.800 My mother's mother was a very harsh and critical person, 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:14.120 and my mother had done everything right in my grandmother's 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.080 eyes up until when she didn't. And that was the 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:23.600 affair that was deciding to leave her first partner trying 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:27.440 to start this family. She had a notion, which is 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.560 you were cheating. He was cheating. This isn't going to work. 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:34.480 You should have stuck with your first marriage. And she 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:37.880 let those criticisms be known. At the same time, I 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.439 think my mother was questioning a lot of where she 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.440 was in life. I think when you're in your again 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.560 it was early thirties to mid thirties to approaching forty, 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.440 you start to wonder, have I made the right decisions? 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:53.720 What's going on? We have a society that treats women poorly, 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:58.959 treats mothers poorly, and is very judgmental of them. And 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.880 you want to let's not forget we're talking now about 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:05.480 the eighties, the early nineties. I think there's a lot 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:08.640 of pressure that she was feeling, and so we moved 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:12.640 to this farmhouse that had no heat. There was a 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:16.480 cast iron wood stove in the middle. And my mother 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:18.960 doesn't really know anyone in the area, so all she 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:21.560 hasked is to go over and talk to her parents, 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.480 who basically are telling her all the mistakes that she's 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:27.720 made over and over and over again and again. I 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:29.760 was young, I was eight years old. But you can 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:34.360 feel when the only other person in the house starts 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:35.440 to go dark. 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:53.120 We'll be right back. I think absorbs a great deal 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:57.600 of his grandmother's disapproval. After all, if she's unhappy about 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.320 his mother's choices, which began with his parents, it's a 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:03.760 fair and culminated in his berth. It would be hard 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:06.840 not to feel that his grandmother disapproves of his very 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:11.560 existence alone in that desolate farmhouse. The feeling that all 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:14.600 this is somehow his fault begins to set in. 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:20.160 I have this very clear memory. My mom once a 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:22.440 week would go over to her parents' house. I was 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:24.480 supposed to stay at the house, but I never would, 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:26.400 and I would kind of sneak over, and I remember 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:30.440 like looking through a window and she was crying. And 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:33.680 very soon after that she would start crying in the 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:36.480 house all the time as well, she would stop getting 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:40.800 out of bed. There are very very hard years, but 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:44.840 I just remember realizing that I'm the reason that she said. 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:47.400 That's how it sat inside me. So my grandmother would 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:50.920 look at me as scants. My grandmother would be so 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.320 cold to me, and I realized it was because of 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:57.160 her her dislike for my father, but really it was 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:01.560 this feeling that I had ruined her daughter, but just 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:05.480 by existing, and that wasn't something I couldn't fix. I 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:11.120 did not like sitting with this feeling of worthlessness, so 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:13.880 I started turning to books because there that would take 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:18.200 my mind off of everything that was happening their mound well. 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:22.280 And also I think with books it's not only the 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:26.040 distraction or this sort of escape into other worlds, but 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.520 also at times a feeling that there are other people 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:31.960 out there who have also felt some of these things. 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:36.360 That is exactly right. One of my favorite quotes comes 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.760 from the play The History Boys, and I'm probably not 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:42.080 going to say correctly here, so part of it for 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:44.240 not getting word to word. But it's basically like you 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:46.800 can be reading a book and you can come across 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.600 a line or a thought that is a thought or 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.800 a feeling that you thought only you had had you 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.200 truly you'd never shared it with anyone, and then you 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:56.840 see it there on the page, and it's like a 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:59.400 hand comes out of the book and grabs your own. 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.560 All of a sudden, you feel less alone in the world. 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:05.520 And I think that's absolutely right. That is when I 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.600 had a very difficult conversation with my mother. At that point, 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:12.960 her mental health is starting to deteriorate. She's leaning on 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:15.040 me more and more. She started talking to me like 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:17.800 I was a friend, not like a child. She started 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:20.080 treating me like somebody she could lean on instead of 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:20.719 take care of. 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:27.359 But Isaac needs to be taken care of. He's gone 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:30.960 from city poor to country poor. He misses his father, 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.760 he has a very disapproving set of grandparents, and he 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:37.320 feels in some way like he doesn't have any right 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:40.320 to be here at all. He writes, but he can 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:43.600 feel the trouble, though he can't at the time put 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:47.680 words to it. Then if there are before and after 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:50.879 moments in life when you hear something you can't unhear. 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:54.919 You learn something you can't unlearn. This is one of 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:58.760 those moments for Isaac. His mother tells him something that 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.879 perhaps no parent should ever tell a child. 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.800 All then forget, we're driving and it must have been 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:08.680 a warm day, because I remember there was that shimmer 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:10.800 on the road, you know, where it almost looks like 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:14.040 the road is turning into water. And she basically tells 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:16.880 me the story of when my parents met. And they're 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:21.280 at school and she decides, I'm gonna cut this affair off, 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.199 and they actually went for one last day, would tell 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:27.040 their partners they were going on retreats for school with 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:28.840 other people at the school, but of course it was 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:30.199 just the two of them, and they would go up 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.800 to the White Mountains in New Hampshire and that is 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:36.639 where they would conduct their affair. And she shared so 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:38.800 much that I even know the mountain that I was 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:41.720 conceived on. I know that they were using birth control 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:45.240 and clearly it didn't take. And she shared with me 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.080 that because she'd broken up afterwards, she decided kind of 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:49.920 not to talk to my dad for a little bit, 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:52.840 and she had to decide. She walked me through every 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:55.240 decision she thought she was like maybe I could tell 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:59.280 her partner at the time, maybe we could just this 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:03.280 is your kid. Maybe okay, maybe I tell the truth, 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:06.080 but maybe there's forgiveness there and then she can seers 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:09.520 her maybe I can have an abortion. And she goes 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:11.880 so far as telling me that she scheduled the abortion, 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:17.480 and she got to the clinic and she got to 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:19.800 the front room and that is when she decided not 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.119 to and she walked out. But then she ended it 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:23.920 the way she started, and she told me all this, 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:26.800 this wall of words, its wave of words, and she 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:28.840 just said, but maybe it would have been for the best. 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:33.199 And that's what rings in my head. And this is 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:36.360 the difficult thing you want to talk about. Family secrets 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.520 or secrets we don't tell ourselves, the secrets we don't 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:41.239 share with other people, but we know are in our 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:44.600 heart at all times. There's a way where I can 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:47.679 look at my entire life and we can get to 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:52.360 the complex relationship with my parents now. But maybe it's 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:55.600 for the best. That's not wrong. There is a world 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:58.720 where if she had made that choice, her life might 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:02.280 have been a lot move there. And I know if 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:03.959 she was here in this room and I said that, 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.679 she would be so angry at me because I know 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:10.240 she loves me. I know she loves me, but maybe 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:11.960 for the best. Maybe that's not the right way to 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:13.359 put it. But if you want to say, maybe it 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:18.359 would have been easier, she's probably right. And I didn't 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:20.800 understand that at eight, of course, but I definitely did 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:22.879 by the time when I was fourteen, and I was 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:24.120 able to see that for her. 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:28.280 Yeah, which only contributes to that sense of being the bomb. 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:36.000 Exactly During this time, Isaac's mother's mental health deteriorates. She 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:38.959 attempts to take her life a number of times. 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:43.360 It was just me and her with her very critical 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:47.000 parents next door, and she was grappling with shame, and 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:51.359 she didn't have anyone to talk to about it. And 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:53.480 I didn't know what to do. I mean, I knew 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:55.639 how to cook spaghettio's. I knew how to try and 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:58.000 get her out of bed so she could get to 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:01.520 her job. I knew. I started doing a lot of 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:04.400 the caretaking. We had a washer, we didn't have a dryer, 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:10.080 hanging clothes on the clothesline. I just watched, as you know, 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:11.720 I didn't have the words for at the time, but 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:17.000 as her mental health deteriorated, and eventually that turned into 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:20.720 basically kind of crying all the time, or being quiet 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:22.240 all the time, or not being able to get out 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:27.879 of bed. Manifested in one time. The memory I have, 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:30.960 which is so this is you know, not every memory 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:33.520 we have right as crystal clear. But she was wearing 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:37.520 a green Champion sweatshirt and she had a knife in 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:39.920 her hand, and she went to stab herself in the stomach, 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.440 and I remember grabbing her and saying no, no, no, 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:45.920 no no, and crying. Now, I want to be very clear, 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:49.359 she didn't cut into her skin. She cut that sweatshirt. 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:52.960 She cut that sweatshirt, but she was She's having these 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:56.120 outbursts in these moments. Around this time, my father actually 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:59.480 does move out, makes the decision to move out. In 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:01.159 my mind, and things are going to get better, but 0:22:01.240 --> 0:22:03.760 actually they get worse because while he was in the city, 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:06.920 he had another affair. My mother finds out about it. 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:10.000 This does not help with the mental health that she's having. 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:13.000 And even as he comes out, I would argue to 0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:16.639 try and make amends, it's almost like gasoline is added 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:20.480 to the fire. Now they are fighting constantly. He sees 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:22.640 what I'm doing with her he sees how I'm trying 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:25.600 to help her in these ways, but I at one 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:27.320 point I have to call an ambulance because of the 0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:30.080 suicide attempt. She gets put I get told that she's 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:32.640 going away for a little while, but she actually gets 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:35.800 put in a state run facility for a week. It's 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:37.840 not like we had money or health insurance. This was 0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:40.440 literally the state was just like, all right, we need 0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:45.639 to put this person somewhere else. She gets medication, which 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:47.680 we think is going to be a good thing. Instead 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:50.639 at one point, neither of my parents' drink, but I 0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:52.800 find her with an empty bottle of pills and an 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:57.040 empty bottle of vodka. Now with therapy, I have a 0:22:57.080 --> 0:22:59.640