WEBVTT - The Odyssey Episode 0:00:01.500 --> 0:00:10.539 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:15.220 and welcome to the Epic Cast. This is Josh. There's Chuck. 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:19.529 Jerry's here, too. We're all wearing breastplates, and that means 0:00:19.570 --> 0:00:20.690 this is Stuff You Should Know. 0:00:21.270 --> 0:00:22.489 To protect our chest. 0:00:23.450 --> 0:00:26.630 Yes, I'm also wearing a codpiece, but that's not unusual 0:00:26.650 --> 0:00:26.840 for me. 0:00:27.730 --> 0:00:28.550 To protect your cod. 0:00:29.700 --> 0:00:30.860 I know. Why is it called that? 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:31.760 Fish of the day. 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:35.659 What if you dated somebody who referred to that as 0:00:35.700 --> 0:00:40.260 your cod? Wouldn't you be like, please stop calling it that? 0:00:40.979 --> 0:00:42.839 Yeah. It's like, do you mind giving me some privacy? 0:00:42.860 --> 0:00:45.440 I'm in here washing my cod. Right. 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:49.280 They would say, I'm sorry. I majored in the Canterbury Tales. 0:00:50.300 --> 0:00:53.840 What a weird way to start the odyssey. I know. 0:00:54.410 --> 0:00:56.910 I know. And you're the one who wrote those lines. 0:00:57.330 --> 0:00:57.850 I know. That's true. 0:00:59.070 --> 0:01:01.690 Uh, yeah, we're talking about the Odyssey. You saw the 0:01:01.770 --> 0:01:04.509 Odyssey and you were like, how's the Odyssey work? And 0:01:04.530 --> 0:01:05.570 here we are, right? 0:01:06.150 --> 0:01:08.089 Yeah. I mean, you know, I saw the movie. Uh, 0:01:08.130 --> 0:01:10.710 I thought it was really good. I am no Christopher 0:01:10.750 --> 0:01:13.560 Nolan fan boy. I'm about 50, 50 with him. Maybe, 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:16.380 maybe 60, 40 with ones I like. 0:01:17.420 --> 0:01:20.119 Which ones do you like? Aside from Memento, obviously. 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:23.240 Well, I liked Memento. I liked the prestige. I liked 0:01:23.300 --> 0:01:24.420 the Batman movies. 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:25.300 Yeah. 0:01:25.740 --> 0:01:29.270 Um, Didn't love, I mean, Oppenheimer was quote-unquote good, I guess, 0:01:29.310 --> 0:01:30.690 but it was a bit of a slog for me, 0:01:30.709 --> 0:01:31.990 and I never wanted to see it again. 0:01:32.010 --> 0:01:34.070 I could see that. 0:01:34.250 --> 0:01:38.550 I think you and I had the same problems with Interstellar. Yeah. 0:01:38.650 --> 0:01:40.190 I did not see Tenet because I heard it was 0:01:40.209 --> 0:01:42.250 so bad. So, yeah, he sort of hit or miss 0:01:42.270 --> 0:01:44.640 for me, but I really thought the Odyssey was great, 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:47.350 and it kind of hit me after I saw it. 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:50.280 I was like, it's kind of just crazy, this idea 0:01:50.300 --> 0:01:53.900 that this story that's this old, like one of the 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:58.180 oldest stories... like can still resonate with an audience in 2026. 0:01:58.180 --> 0:02:01.220 And like, what is it about that story itself? And 0:02:01.260 --> 0:02:06.230 I knew nothing about just the Odyssey as a literary piece. 0:02:06.330 --> 0:02:09.190 And I didn't know much about Homer. Like I was 0:02:09.210 --> 0:02:11.350 an English major, but we didn't, I guess I didn't 0:02:11.370 --> 0:02:13.490 do the classes where we studied this stuff. 0:02:14.150 --> 0:02:18.220 Well, in your defense, it was written in Ionic, not English. 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:19.400 So yeah, good point. 0:02:20.830 --> 0:02:24.400 So, yeah, I can totally see where you're coming from. 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:27.280 The story has legs, I guess, is how you'd put it. 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:29.600 Yeah, it's just kind of fascinating to me as a 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:30.500 piece of work. 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:32.880 For sure. And let's talk about this piece of work 0:02:32.900 --> 0:02:36.200 because there's a lot to talk about, not just recounting 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:39.910 the highlights of the story and spoiling the movie, I guess, 0:02:39.950 --> 0:02:43.750 for anybody who hasn't paid attention over the last, like, 0:02:43.770 --> 0:02:46.290 2,000-something years. Yeah, if you can't. 0:02:47.100 --> 0:02:51.060 If you can't, uh, spoil something written in the eighth century, then, uh, 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:52.620 I'm just sorry. 0:02:53.250 --> 0:02:59.410 Yeah. Yeah. So about almost 3000 years ago, the 700s BCE, right. 0:03:00.389 --> 0:03:05.070 That's where they think Homer first put this to paper. Uh, 0:03:05.169 --> 0:03:07.639 but the whole thing, and it's attributed to the Greek 0:03:07.700 --> 0:03:10.560 poet Homer, uh, who I guess this would have been 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:16.100 post bronze age, um, Like after the Bronze Age collapse, 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:19.900 I think, is when Homer was walking around. If Homer 0:03:19.940 --> 0:03:22.480 was even walking around, we'll talk about in a second. 0:03:23.020 --> 0:03:27.049 But they attribute both the Odyssey and the Iliad, which 0:03:27.130 --> 0:03:31.389 is kind of the prequel to the Odyssey, to Homer. 0:03:32.070 --> 0:03:33.750 And they think that it was first written down, like 0:03:33.790 --> 0:03:37.460 I said, in the 700s, the 8th century BCE. But 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:41.820 it was probably around way longer than that because the 0:03:41.860 --> 0:03:47.660 whole thing is set up as a form of oral storytelling. Yeah. 0:03:47.780 --> 0:03:50.420 I mean, you know, just you mentioned quickly that it 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:53.630 was sort of a sequel or the Iliad was a, 0:03:53.810 --> 0:03:54.530 did you say prequel? 0:03:55.820 --> 0:03:56.430 You bet I did. 0:03:58.170 --> 0:04:00.790 Well, the Odyssey is 24 books, one book for each 0:04:00.810 --> 0:04:02.810 letter of the Greek alphabet. But the Iliad that you 0:04:02.850 --> 0:04:07.340 were talking about, um, talks about Agamemnon's return from the 0:04:07.420 --> 0:04:12.900 Trojan war. And then the Odyssey basically covers Odysseus, uh, 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.970 his return from the very long delayed return from the 0:04:17.010 --> 0:04:20.610 Trojan war. And what was your question that you asked 0:04:20.650 --> 0:04:21.750 before I sidetracked us? 0:04:23.010 --> 0:04:26.390 Do you remember? I asked you, uh, what, um, Christopher 0:04:26.450 --> 0:04:27.609 Nolan movies you like. 0:04:28.630 --> 0:04:28.850 Yes. 0:04:28.910 --> 0:04:29.890 He said that right before. 0:04:29.930 --> 0:04:32.010 That's the last question I remember asking you. 0:04:32.250 --> 0:04:35.580 Oh, that's okay. Um, But I think I know what 0:04:35.620 --> 0:04:38.980 you said. Something about it being an oral tradition that 0:04:39.020 --> 0:04:40.250 was much older, right? 0:04:40.290 --> 0:04:40.550 Yeah. 0:04:40.990 --> 0:04:41.190 Yeah. 0:04:41.290 --> 0:04:42.270 I must have said right. 0:04:42.750 --> 0:04:44.190 That's right. 0:04:44.210 --> 0:04:46.270 That was my question. Am I right? 0:04:46.290 --> 0:04:48.589 I can't believe how good we are at this 18 0:04:48.589 --> 0:04:49.950 years in. 0:04:49.950 --> 0:04:50.570 18 years in. 0:04:50.830 --> 0:04:53.410 It astounds me sometimes. Masters. 0:04:53.750 --> 0:04:56.790 I know. It's almost like we're both sleepwalking right now. 0:04:56.830 --> 0:04:57.549 No, no, no. Not sleepwalking. 0:04:57.589 --> 0:04:58.120 On the phone. 0:04:59.210 --> 0:05:03.520 So we don't know how closely the Odyssey resembles the 0:05:03.580 --> 0:05:06.840 story of That Homer told in 700s because you were right. 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:08.000 It was an oral. 0:05:09.380 --> 0:05:09.620 Story. 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:11.670 It was an oral tradition and it was supposed to 0:05:11.690 --> 0:05:16.510 be told by memorizing it and retelling it by, you know, 0:05:16.570 --> 0:05:19.410 from bards telling the story to people in a crowd, 0:05:19.970 --> 0:05:23.589 maybe changing a thing or two. You know, the idea 0:05:23.610 --> 0:05:26.390 is that we it's pretty likely that this thing was 0:05:26.430 --> 0:05:29.349 a little bit like a game of telephone, right? Yeah. 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:31.800 You know, like as you learned it and you passed 0:05:31.860 --> 0:05:34.599 it on, you could kind of embellish it in this way. 0:05:34.620 --> 0:05:37.880 You're like, I don't really care that much about the siren, 0:05:37.930 --> 0:05:39.770 so I'm not going to give them as much play 0:05:39.830 --> 0:05:41.730 as maybe the guy who taught you how to say 0:05:41.770 --> 0:05:46.590 this did. And then it really started to take its 0:05:46.650 --> 0:05:50.250 final shape again when it was finally put to papyrus. 0:05:50.330 --> 0:05:53.410 I want to say pen to paper, but probably quill 0:05:53.470 --> 0:05:55.620 to papyrus is how it was first done. 0:05:55.630 --> 0:05:57.090 Right. Right. I love that. 0:05:57.490 --> 0:05:59.550 That's when it really kind of started to take a 0:05:59.589 --> 0:06:02.290 solid form because now it was like now you just 0:06:02.330 --> 0:06:03.350 basically copied it. 0:06:03.350 --> 0:06:03.750 Right. 0:06:03.770 --> 0:06:05.930 You didn't have to memorize it or anything like that. 0:06:06.430 --> 0:06:11.740 But it was far from the only like legend or 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:15.890 tale of like Greek culture and Greek heroics and like 0:06:15.950 --> 0:06:17.900 Greek moral lessons and all that. 0:06:17.940 --> 0:06:18.120 Right. 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:20.520 But it was just for some reason that I don't 0:06:20.540 --> 0:06:23.400 think anyone's really put their finger on. It just has 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.719 resonated throughout the years. So it's the one. that we 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:28.919 tend to think of when we think of this whole stuff. 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.160 But it was a cornerstone of Greek culture. Like this 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:35.680 was just part of your indoctrination into growing up in 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:39.380 ancient Greek culture. You knew the Iliad among other things, 0:06:39.420 --> 0:06:42.620 or the Odyssey, probably the Iliad too, among other things, 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:45.440 you'd at least heard it probably more than once. And 0:06:45.460 --> 0:06:47.850 then finally Plato comes along and he's like, this is 0:06:47.910 --> 0:06:51.410 all rubbish. We need to start using our noodles. So 0:06:52.010 --> 0:06:54.230 he tried to actually ban the Odyssey and it didn't 0:06:54.250 --> 0:06:55.990 take because people love it that much. 0:06:56.390 --> 0:07:00.529 That's right. It lived on. You mentioned it was an 0:07:00.670 --> 0:07:04.190 Ionic Greek, which is an Asiatic dialect, and it's been 0:07:04.230 --> 0:07:07.029 gone for more than 2000 years. So if you're wondering 0:07:07.650 --> 0:07:10.510 how we got to the point where Christopher Nolan is 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:16.100 working on a screenplay adapted from a 21st century novelized version, 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:19.680 I guess, it's sort of a winding road. The first 0:07:19.740 --> 0:07:23.880 print copy came around in 1488, and it was produced 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:29.430 in Italy in that Ionic Greek. And then I guess 0:07:29.450 --> 0:07:31.410 about 100 years later or so, or at least in 0:07:31.430 --> 0:07:36.550 the next century, it was finally translated to some European languages, 0:07:37.110 --> 0:07:40.710 some actual living languages. And then in 1616, we got 0:07:40.750 --> 0:07:44.660 our first English translation of this epic poem from a 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:47.480 British poet named George Chapman. 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:50.420 That's a pretty British name if I've ever heard one. 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:51.160 Yeah, for sure. 0:07:52.020 --> 0:07:56.040 So, yeah. So now it starts to come into our awareness, 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:56.740 our understanding. 0:07:57.190 --> 0:07:59.809 And, you know, him translating it and then other people 0:07:59.870 --> 0:08:02.910 translating it from the original, you know, we talked a 0:08:02.910 --> 0:08:05.790 little bit about just the original oral translations. But when 0:08:05.830 --> 0:08:09.050 you finally get to like written translations, it also took 0:08:09.150 --> 0:08:10.710 a bit of a winding road, obviously. 0:08:11.210 --> 0:08:15.560 Yeah, because the thing was written originally or created originally 0:08:15.620 --> 0:08:19.920 to be spoken. And it actually follows a specific meter, 0:08:20.220 --> 0:08:22.400 like the rhythm that you're supposed to say it in. 0:08:22.420 --> 0:08:27.780 It's called Homeric hexameter. Or dactylic hexameter I've also seen. 0:08:27.820 --> 0:08:35.940 In each line, there's six three-syllable units. And in these 0:08:36.020 --> 0:08:40.300 three-syllable units, these dactyls, the first syllable is stressed and 0:08:40.330 --> 0:08:44.109 then the next two are not stressed. So it's like, hi, 0:08:44.230 --> 0:08:50.590 how are you doing today, guy? Right? 0:08:50.610 --> 0:08:51.809 Do you have to sing it? 0:08:52.190 --> 0:08:55.920 I actually saw a video of somebody not only reading 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:58.800 it in English, but reading it in Ionic. Oh, wow. 0:08:59.340 --> 0:08:59.560 Yeah. 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.380 And I couldn't tell any difference from somebody just reading 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:07.260 it normally. But that's not something that literally translates very 0:09:07.300 --> 0:09:13.150 well into other languages, including English. So the translators basically 0:09:13.190 --> 0:09:16.230 had to make some big decisions, essentially. 0:09:16.250 --> 0:09:16.330 Yeah. 0:09:16.580 --> 0:09:19.280 Yeah. I mean, it's almost like translating the Bible, you know, 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:21.420 through the various translations of the Bible over the years. 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.740 There was, you know, each time someone's doing that, there 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:27.020 are writers that are doing that. So each version is 0:09:27.059 --> 0:09:28.100 going to be a little bit different. 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:29.220 Right. 0:09:29.540 --> 0:09:32.100 You know, a language, especially, you know, in the case 0:09:32.140 --> 0:09:33.680 of a poem, it's going to have a unique rhythm. 0:09:33.730 --> 0:09:37.430 But people's native tongue have unique rhythms as well. And 0:09:37.510 --> 0:09:41.309 just where they're from, there are unique cultural experiences that happen. 0:09:42.190 --> 0:09:45.550 Some of these translate better than others, I guess. 0:09:45.809 --> 0:09:45.989 Yeah. 0:09:46.630 --> 0:09:51.380 And so, you know, you're really, you know, you're not 0:09:51.540 --> 0:09:54.339 rewriting in like, I don't think people made up like 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:56.929 a ton of stuff out of whole cloth, but making 0:09:56.970 --> 0:09:59.170 it relevant for the audience that they're writing it for, 0:09:59.230 --> 0:10:01.900 which would have been. in their language for the people 0:10:01.980 --> 0:10:04.699 in their country because they wanted them to get something 0:10:04.780 --> 0:10:05.819 out of it. Yes. 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:06.480 Yeah. 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:10.160 Most translators have ignored the there's a joke in one 0:10:10.179 --> 0:10:12.929 of the books about laying with a goat and it 0:10:12.950 --> 0:10:15.350 just does not translate well into modern times. 0:10:15.370 --> 0:10:17.600 That's right. Got to leave that one behind. And the 0:10:17.620 --> 0:10:19.800 other thing is, you know, there's a few things here. 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:22.679 You're translating from a dead language, which is a big deal. 0:10:23.980 --> 0:10:25.820 We already mentioned that they were things meant to be 0:10:25.860 --> 0:10:28.480 spoken aloud to something read, which is going to change it. 0:10:28.950 --> 0:10:31.690 And then it's just something that's just thousands of years 0:10:31.850 --> 0:10:34.450 old that you have to make sense. So it's a 0:10:34.570 --> 0:10:35.450 it's a hard job. 0:10:36.170 --> 0:10:39.809 Right. It's a hard knock life for translators of the Odyssey. 0:10:40.270 --> 0:10:41.849 That's right. That's what Annie said. 0:10:42.870 --> 0:10:47.819 So there there were some. There's some like standout translations 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.300 over the years, but the one that everyone's talking about 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:54.739 right now is from Emily Wilson. And she, I think, 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:59.300 did hers in 2017. Okay. 2017 is how most people 0:10:59.340 --> 0:10:59.740 say that. 0:10:59.980 --> 0:11:00.140 Right. 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:07.230 And she basically, she turned it into English heroic couplets, 0:11:07.250 --> 0:11:11.710 which is basically a tea drinking way of saying like 0:11:12.250 --> 0:11:15.830 exactly the kind of rhyming words pairs that you hear 0:11:15.850 --> 0:11:17.250 in any modern song. 0:11:17.809 --> 0:11:19.929 Yeah. And this is the one that Christopher Nolan used 0:11:19.970 --> 0:11:24.969 specifically to adapt his version of the story on screen. Um, 0:11:25.770 --> 0:11:28.130 I think we should probably talk a little bit about 0:11:28.230 --> 0:11:32.030 the Homeric question because you, you teased earlier the, uh, 0:11:33.250 --> 0:11:35.250 if Homer was really a person and that it's sort 0:11:35.270 --> 0:11:37.610 of one of these things where, you know, we don't 0:11:37.650 --> 0:11:40.189 have any hard facts when it comes to Homer, like 0:11:40.290 --> 0:11:44.819 everything that we know, um, historians, literary historians have surmised 0:11:45.300 --> 0:11:48.640 from reading the text? Like, well, it's written in this language, 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:51.260 so he's probably from this place that spoke that language. 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:52.760 Like stuff that makes sense, though. 0:11:54.220 --> 0:11:57.290 Yeah, no, there's plenty of stuff that makes sense. It's 0:11:57.350 --> 0:12:01.070 more just like a question of like, did he actually 0:12:01.130 --> 0:12:05.030 exist if he was a bard, if he was a 0:12:05.090 --> 0:12:09.520 group of people? It's very similar to the Shakespeare question, too, 0:12:09.540 --> 0:12:13.140 we did an episode on. But there, I mean, just 0:12:13.340 --> 0:12:16.719 even though everything is a guess that we've kind of 0:12:16.740 --> 0:12:21.500 compiled from Homer, strictly from, I guess, his own writing. 0:12:21.580 --> 0:12:24.760 I don't think he's referenced in any other, like, historical 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.230 text or anything like that. It's just the stuff he's 0:12:27.260 --> 0:12:29.610 writing about just kind of lines up. And they think 0:12:29.650 --> 0:12:32.970 that he was probably from Ionia, which is along the 0:12:33.050 --> 0:12:37.030 west coast of Turkey today, because the whole thing was 0:12:37.050 --> 0:12:41.870 written in Ionic. And... He almost certainly lived during this 0:12:42.070 --> 0:12:45.689 age that they attribute it to. And they also are like, 0:12:45.830 --> 0:12:49.570 it's possible that he might be a known historic blind 0:12:49.630 --> 0:12:54.390 bard named Demoticus. Demoticus. 0:12:55.210 --> 0:12:55.410 Yeah. 0:12:56.350 --> 0:12:59.710 That's the hardest one, I think, out of this whole article. 0:13:00.070 --> 0:13:00.170 Yeah. 0:13:00.210 --> 0:13:03.309 I mean, that's a character in the Odyssey that like 0:13:03.429 --> 0:13:07.270 a lot of space is devoted to. So I think 0:13:07.330 --> 0:13:09.140 there are people who are like, I wonder if this 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:11.020 is just a stand in for him because, boy, there 0:13:11.059 --> 0:13:13.650 is a lot of stuff in there about this, you know, 0:13:13.730 --> 0:13:15.390 minor character. Right. 0:13:15.429 --> 0:13:19.189 He's like, and let me sing the praises about Demodocus's cod. 0:13:19.530 --> 0:13:19.750 Yeah. 0:13:20.370 --> 0:13:22.150 There's just verse after verse about that. 0:13:22.470 --> 0:13:25.500 A lot of stuff. So I also think we should 0:13:25.540 --> 0:13:29.200 talk before we break about sort of a central concept 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:31.540 because in Act Two, everybody, we're going to give you 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:33.480 the CliffsNotes version of the Odyssey. 0:13:34.340 --> 0:13:34.540 Yeah. 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:35.540 It's very exciting. 0:13:36.110 --> 0:13:36.850 I'm very excited. 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:39.970 But we should a little bit more before we get 0:13:40.020 --> 0:13:43.590 into that is sort of conceptually what the Odyssey was 0:13:43.610 --> 0:13:49.130 about in a lot of ways was homecoming and hospitality, 0:13:49.950 --> 0:13:54.590 which are Nostos and Xenia in ancient Greece. And these 0:13:54.670 --> 0:13:57.270 two things were like really big deals in ancient Greece 0:13:57.309 --> 0:13:59.910 that figured heavily in like their life and culture. 0:14:00.370 --> 0:14:03.760 Yeah, they're not only like. things that you should do 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:05.939 to be like a good host. There are actual like 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.420 rules that you have to follow. And if you don't, 0:14:09.460 --> 0:14:12.870 you're actually upsetting Zeus because this is Zeus, the king 0:14:12.890 --> 0:14:16.750 of the gods, a real God's God, if you ask 0:14:16.809 --> 0:14:21.160 other gods. This is his divine law that he's passed down. 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.780 That's how important these rules for treating guests are. 0:14:25.390 --> 0:14:30.110 So, yeah, Xenia is a big deal. And the rules 0:14:30.150 --> 0:14:36.120 specifically are if you happen to hop through town and 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:39.020 you knock on a stranger's door, they're supposed to say, 0:14:39.260 --> 0:14:41.560 come on in. I don't need to know anything. Here's 0:14:41.580 --> 0:14:43.540 some food. Here's some wine. Why don't you go? I'll 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:45.900 draw you a hot bath. Sure. And then we'll get 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:49.400 to why you're here. And also, while you're doing this stuff, 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:51.830 like maybe while you're in the bathtub, I'm going to 0:14:51.990 --> 0:14:53.950 stand sentry out front with my sword and make sure 0:14:53.990 --> 0:14:54.870 you stay nice and safe. 0:14:55.350 --> 0:14:58.150 Yeah, you have to guarantee their protection while they're staying 0:14:58.210 --> 0:15:02.910 at your home. Yeah, like a heaping helping of hospitality 0:15:02.970 --> 0:15:06.250 is what you're supposed to offer a stranger, according to Xenia, right? 0:15:06.710 --> 0:15:07.030 For sure. 0:15:07.970 --> 0:15:11.570 That figures in so much to the story that essentially 0:15:12.190 --> 0:15:17.710 entire groups and individuals are characterized by how they treat strangers, 0:15:17.770 --> 0:15:21.250 how they act as guests, how they act as hosts. 0:15:21.700 --> 0:15:24.200 Like this is a really important thread that goes through 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:28.620 all of the Odyssey. That's Xenia. Then there's also Nostos, right? 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:31.980 Yeah, homecoming. I mean, that's basically what the Odyssey is. 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.450 It's about somebody coming home. And this was a very 0:15:35.490 --> 0:15:38.550 big deal in Greek society because they were seafarers. They 0:15:38.570 --> 0:15:43.890 were adventurers and wanderers by sea. And so they would 0:15:44.070 --> 0:15:46.670 go out a lot and coming home was a big deal. 0:15:46.730 --> 0:15:48.580 They would be separated from their family. They would have 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:53.540 these brutal, you know, sea journeys. And so coming home 0:15:53.710 --> 0:15:56.170 was a very big deal. And so it's no surprise 0:15:56.190 --> 0:15:58.650 that these two sort of prominent things that figure in 0:15:58.670 --> 0:16:01.430 Greek culture and society at the time were sort of 0:16:01.450 --> 0:16:03.630 the two big themes of the Odyssey. Right. 0:16:04.370 --> 0:16:06.310 If you're in high school and you have a crush 0:16:06.390 --> 0:16:10.600 on somebody who likes to read the classics, just go 0:16:10.630 --> 0:16:12.030 up to them and say, would you like to go 0:16:12.100 --> 0:16:15.300 to Nostos with me? And they will, they'll be putty 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:16.320 in your hand after that. 0:16:17.890 --> 0:16:19.750 That's great. I started Moby Dick, by the way, just 0:16:19.790 --> 0:16:22.070 so everyone knows it's officially happening. 0:16:22.810 --> 0:16:24.970 Awesome. How's it going so far? 0:16:25.410 --> 0:16:27.920 Well, I read chapter one and then I watched that, 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:32.560 you know, I mentioned the Rob Delaney podcast that he's 0:16:32.580 --> 0:16:35.780 doing with the professor. And so I'm going to do 0:16:35.820 --> 0:16:38.360 that like in lockstep. So I did that and then 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:41.320 I watched their chapter one recap and it's helping a lot. 0:16:41.380 --> 0:16:42.350 I like it so far. 0:16:42.370 --> 0:16:44.970 That's awesome. Keep us posted, will you? 0:16:45.350 --> 0:16:46.870 I will. So far, so good. Okay. 0:16:47.980 --> 0:16:51.820 So that was, I think we covered Xenia and Nostros 0:16:51.860 --> 0:16:55.180 pretty well. And that's probably a pretty good place to break, right? 0:16:55.580 --> 0:16:55.780 Yeah. 0:16:56.020 --> 0:16:59.560 And everyone, hold on your hats, because Act 2, we're 0:16:59.580 --> 0:17:02.280 going to go over these books of the Odyssey. 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:03.900 Whoa, whoa, whoa. 0:17:21.450 --> 0:17:32.409 Learning stuff with Joshua and Charles. Stuff you should know. 0:17:33.540 --> 0:17:37.260 All right. I'm back with Josh. He's screwed his head 0:17:37.300 --> 0:17:40.840 back onto his body. Cartoon style. 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:43.100 And if you don't know what Chuck's referring to, that 0:17:43.140 --> 0:17:44.459 means we edited that thing out. 0:17:44.940 --> 0:17:47.100 Oh, perhaps. You never know. But we're going to kind 0:17:47.140 --> 0:17:50.000 of do, like I said, the CliffsNotes version of the Odyssey. 0:17:50.700 --> 0:17:53.530 Spoilers will abound. If you haven't seen the film and 0:17:53.590 --> 0:17:55.690 you really don't want to know anything about it, then 0:17:55.730 --> 0:17:58.010 don't listen to this chapter. But, you know, I think 0:17:58.050 --> 0:17:59.729 it might help going in to know a little bit 0:17:59.750 --> 0:18:02.389 about the story if you really don't know anything. And 0:18:02.410 --> 0:18:08.570 I'll also point out the actors who feature in and 0:18:08.930 --> 0:18:10.130 who they play. How's that? 0:18:10.810 --> 0:18:13.390 I think that's great. Can you also do their voices, maybe? 0:18:13.990 --> 0:18:15.300 No, I can't do any of those voices. 0:18:15.540 --> 0:18:16.939 You can do a great Matt Damon. 0:18:17.700 --> 0:18:18.639 How about them apples? 0:18:18.660 --> 0:18:22.699 There you go. Exactly. That actually sounded like Matthew McConaughey 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:23.900 trying to do a Matt Damon. 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:25.219 It sort of did. 0:18:26.140 --> 0:18:28.700 All right. So let's get started, Chuck. We start with 0:18:28.770 --> 0:18:32.330 book one. And actually, this kind of covers books one 0:18:32.390 --> 0:18:33.090 through four. 0:18:33.450 --> 0:18:33.630 Yeah. 0:18:33.990 --> 0:18:38.409 And we find we start the Trojan War has ended 0:18:38.410 --> 0:18:42.369 10 years before. And the Trojan War itself has taken 0:18:42.369 --> 0:18:45.900 10 years. So it's been 20 years since our hero, 0:18:46.220 --> 0:18:48.140 literally the hero of the story, Odysseus. 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:48.840 Matt Damon. 0:18:49.460 --> 0:18:53.060 Yes. Which I'm not crazy about that casting. I'm sorry. 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:55.800 There's a lot of people upset about this casting. 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:57.000 Yes. 0:18:57.340 --> 0:18:59.679 Not him, like all kinds of the casting. I know. 0:18:59.740 --> 0:19:02.919 Everybody's like, Matt Damon's fine. So he's been gone for 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:06.639 20 years. And from what I understand, this was initially 0:19:06.700 --> 0:19:11.010 considered a fairly quick errand. The Trojan War started because 0:19:11.470 --> 0:19:17.290 Paris stole Helen of Troy. And now I think everybody 0:19:17.330 --> 0:19:19.909 kind of set out to get her back. And it 0:19:19.950 --> 0:19:21.890 turned into this 10-year Trojan War. 0:19:22.530 --> 0:19:25.649 That's right. Helen of Troy is played by Lupita Nyong'o 0:19:25.690 --> 0:19:29.400 in this film. And Elon Musk is so mad about that. 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.679 He's going to make his own AI version that he 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:37.139 thinks is more historically accurate. That's what he said. 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.380 I heard about that. I'm waiting for its IPO. 0:19:39.980 --> 0:19:42.680 I'm sure it's going to be great. So Matt Damon 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:45.060 is Odysseus. He's been gone for those 20 years, like 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.730 you said. He has a wife named Penelope, played by 0:19:47.770 --> 0:19:50.359 Anne Hathaway in this film, and he has a son 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:54.480 called Telemachus, who's played by Tom Holland, who you might 0:19:54.540 --> 0:19:56.060 know more as Spider-Man. 0:19:57.020 --> 0:19:57.160 Yeah. 0:19:57.660 --> 0:19:59.340 All right. So where we pick up with them, they 0:19:59.460 --> 0:20:04.119 are living in their big house, their mini mansion. And 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:07.820 there are 100 suitors vying for Odysseus' throne and the 0:20:07.859 --> 0:20:09.639 hand of Penelope to marry. 0:20:10.020 --> 0:20:10.760 Yeah. 0:20:10.940 --> 0:20:15.610 The most villainous in the film, at least, is Antonis, 0:20:15.810 --> 0:20:17.369 played by Robert Pattinson. 0:20:17.790 --> 0:20:19.530 I'll bet he does a great job. 0:20:19.869 --> 0:20:21.710 He's great. The acting is really, really good in this 0:20:21.790 --> 0:20:24.850 entire film. But these guys are all living there, kind 0:20:24.890 --> 0:20:27.670 of really have made themselves at home, let's just say. 0:20:27.690 --> 0:20:27.770 Yeah. 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.640 And not keeping up their end of the Xenia bargain, 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:33.919 which is, I don't even know if we mentioned, as 0:20:33.980 --> 0:20:36.380 a guest, you're also supposed to be awesome in return. 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:38.880 And these guys are not. We left that out. It's 0:20:38.940 --> 0:20:40.840 not just incumbent on the host. 0:20:41.100 --> 0:20:41.399 That's right. 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:43.820 So, yeah, they're being pretty terrible. And one of the 0:20:44.020 --> 0:20:46.949 main things they're doing as suitors, this whole hundred of 0:20:46.970 --> 0:20:52.350 them who've taken over Odysseus' home, they're like really pressing 0:20:52.390 --> 0:20:54.930 Penelope to be like, your husband's dead. It's been 20 years. 0:20:56.150 --> 0:20:58.169 you need to choose a husband to sit on the 0:20:58.210 --> 0:21:01.210 throne next to you and become king of Ithaca. Who 0:21:01.270 --> 0:21:04.030 are you going to choose? And she keeps hemming and hawing, 0:21:04.450 --> 0:21:09.609 hemming literally because she says that when she finishes the 0:21:09.690 --> 0:21:16.210 funeral shroud that she's weaving for Odysseus's elderly father, Gary, She, um, 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:19.940 she will make this, this decision, right? And then every 0:21:20.020 --> 0:21:23.040 night after she has woven all day, she goes and 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:25.580 undoes the weaving that she did that day so that 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:28.959 she will never finish. And this, I guess the suitors 0:21:29.020 --> 0:21:32.640 are all idiots and it's working quite well because they 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:34.520 still haven't caught on, I guess. 0:21:35.260 --> 0:21:38.110 You know, sometimes when we get emails that are like, 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:42.470 I can't believe Josh said that Odysseus' father's name was Gary. 0:21:43.250 --> 0:21:46.179 Didn't he read it or do his research? I wonder 0:21:46.220 --> 0:21:48.140 if people even know you. 0:21:49.140 --> 0:21:52.610 I do, too. After 18 years, you know? 0:21:52.619 --> 0:21:58.710 So barren, desert dry. Like, get with it, people. He 0:21:58.770 --> 0:21:59.690 knows it's not Gary. 0:22:00.810 --> 0:22:03.090 Chuck, I love how well you know me. Thanks, man. 0:22:04.170 --> 0:22:06.420 I mean, you still fool me. So I guess I 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:07.520 shouldn't throw stones. 0:22:08.220 --> 0:22:13.560 I'm going to take issue with that. There's probably... 98% 0:22:13.890 --> 0:22:16.909 of the time, you're just like moving on. Not that 0:22:16.950 --> 0:22:19.520 you don't think it's funny. Not that you don't get it. 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:23.100 You're just like, we're burning up time here. That's enough 0:22:23.140 --> 0:22:25.380 of your shenanigans. I'm just going to let that sit. 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:26.120 All right. 0:22:26.500 --> 0:22:27.020 Thanks, Gary. 0:22:27.820 --> 0:22:34.460 So Penelope and Telemachus are, you know, it's been 20 years. 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:37.859 So they're also losing hope that dad and husband are gone. 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:38.240 Sure. 0:22:38.380 --> 0:22:42.810 Like for good. So Athena, played by Zendaya in the film, 0:22:43.650 --> 0:22:47.270 the goddess of wisdom and warfare, she's on Odysseus' side 0:22:47.290 --> 0:22:50.790 this whole time. She's like, hey, kid, why don't you 0:22:50.830 --> 0:22:52.970 go out and actually do something and see if you 0:22:53.020 --> 0:22:55.100 can find out if your dad's alive? That'd be a 0:22:55.100 --> 0:22:55.500 good start. 0:22:56.560 --> 0:23:00.760 I'm guessing Zendaya does a great job, or Zendaya. 0:23:01.660 --> 0:23:04.360 Is it Zendaya? Yeah, she's awesome. She's a really good actor, 0:23:04.500 --> 0:23:05.100 I think, in everything. 0:23:05.460 --> 0:23:07.870 I read recently that people thought of her as like 0:23:07.900 --> 0:23:10.350 a nepo baby or something like that. I don't know 0:23:10.390 --> 0:23:12.770 where that's coming from. And I think she's really good 0:23:12.810 --> 0:23:13.990 at everything I've ever seen her in. 0:23:14.010 --> 0:23:15.410 Who are her parents? Are they famous? 0:23:15.430 --> 0:23:17.469 I don't know. I don't know. I'll have to go 0:23:17.510 --> 0:23:20.020 back and double check that. But I saw somebody reference it. 0:23:20.060 --> 0:23:22.060 And I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. 0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:22.560 She's great. 0:23:23.020 --> 0:23:25.379 Yeah, she's great. And she was also in Spider-Man, the movies. 0:23:25.560 --> 0:23:26.600 So it's a reunion of sorts. 0:23:27.300 --> 0:23:27.540 Yes. 0:23:27.900 --> 0:23:31.770 And Benny, I can't remember. He's one of the creators 0:23:31.850 --> 0:23:33.250 of Uncut Gems. 0:23:33.490 --> 0:23:34.030 Benny Safdie. 0:23:34.390 --> 0:23:38.430 Yes, he's in this movie. And he directed Robert Pattinson 0:23:38.550 --> 0:23:40.590 in Good Time. That's right. 0:23:40.690 --> 0:23:42.730 He plays, Benny Safdie plays Agamemnon. 0:23:43.230 --> 0:23:43.380 Yeah. 0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:45.220 Man, look at all this. 0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:45.680 Yeah. 0:23:45.920 --> 0:23:48.540 Go ahead, though. I'm sorry for sidetracking us so badly. 0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:51.139 Oh, that's okay. So she says, why don't you go 0:23:51.180 --> 0:23:53.700 out and see if your dad's still alive? He goes 0:23:53.740 --> 0:23:56.649 and meets with John Bernthal from The Walking Dead, who 0:23:56.690 --> 0:24:01.310 plays King Menelaus in Sparta. And from him learns, hey, 0:24:01.590 --> 0:24:05.390 your dad's alive. He's sort of being held captive, but 0:24:05.950 --> 0:24:08.449 in the best way he can be held captive on 0:24:08.550 --> 0:24:11.580 Calypso's island. And that's where book five picks up. 0:24:11.859 --> 0:24:17.479 Right. Calypso is a nymph, a goddess nymph, who has 0:24:17.520 --> 0:24:21.750 basically turned Odysseus into a sex toy after he washed 0:24:21.850 --> 0:24:24.830 up on her island after a shipwreck, which we'll come 0:24:24.869 --> 0:24:28.300 to later. That's another cool thing about the Odyssey. It's 0:24:28.380 --> 0:24:31.900 not completely linear. It actually spins around. There's different, like 0:24:32.380 --> 0:24:35.040 this entire part we're talking about is a flashback, as 0:24:35.080 --> 0:24:35.520 we'll see. 0:24:35.540 --> 0:24:38.790 Yeah, this starting with book five, yeah. Yes. 0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:43.669 Thank you. And so Calypso falls in love with Odysseus. 0:24:44.190 --> 0:24:47.450 And she's like, don't forget, I'm a goddess nymph, not 0:24:47.490 --> 0:24:49.470 just a nymph. So I can make you stay here. 0:24:49.510 --> 0:24:52.310 And she does. She holds him captive there for, I think, 0:24:52.369 --> 0:24:56.219 something like seven years. Yeah. And then finally, Athena, who 0:24:56.240 --> 0:24:59.900 has really chosen Odysseus as like one of her favorite 0:24:59.940 --> 0:25:04.470 humans and really intervenes on his behalf throughout this whole, 0:25:05.710 --> 0:25:09.650 I guess, odyssey. She goes to Zeus and is like, 0:25:09.670 --> 0:25:12.750 you got to get this guy out of Calypso's clutches. 0:25:12.910 --> 0:25:15.430 And Zeus is like, sure, I'll see what I can do. 0:25:15.970 --> 0:25:20.620 That's right. Calypso, by the way, is played by Charlize Theron. So, again, 0:25:20.740 --> 0:25:23.369 he was being held captive. as a sex slave for 0:25:23.410 --> 0:25:27.010 seven years to Charlize Theron and still wants to leave. 0:25:28.790 --> 0:25:31.649 He's like, my God, it's exhausted. 0:25:34.369 --> 0:25:37.090 Uh, so he has resumed his journey home to Ithaca. 0:25:37.230 --> 0:25:40.840 He leaves on a raft. Um, Poseidon, Poseidon is a 0:25:40.880 --> 0:25:43.660 real jerk throughout this whole story. Really doesn't like Odysseus. 0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:47.100 So he destroys, he plays Poseidon. So no one plays 0:25:47.140 --> 0:25:48.220 Zeus or Poseidon in this. 0:25:48.720 --> 0:25:49.879 Oh, are they CGI? 0:25:50.440 --> 0:25:50.820 No, no, no. 0:25:50.859 --> 0:25:54.040 They, they, he, bite your tongue, he uses very little CGI. 0:25:54.130 --> 0:25:56.859 Yeah, I heard it's all practical effects, but I don't 0:25:56.880 --> 0:25:58.600 understand what you mean. They're just off screen? 0:25:58.920 --> 0:26:01.240 They're not in the movie, like at all. 0:26:01.260 --> 0:26:02.200 Okay, they're just referenced. 0:26:02.820 --> 0:26:03.439 Yeah, exactly. 0:26:03.619 --> 0:26:05.520 Like Poseidon really did me dirty. 0:26:05.960 --> 0:26:06.580 Yeah. Okay. 0:26:06.800 --> 0:26:11.859 So Poseidon wrecks the raft as punishment because he blinded 0:26:12.500 --> 0:26:16.840 his son, which was a cyclops. And we'll get to 0:26:16.880 --> 0:26:19.040 that in a minute because that's coming by way of 0:26:19.080 --> 0:26:24.400 flashback a little bit later. And Odysseus is shipwrecked once 0:26:24.460 --> 0:26:27.020 again and taken in by the, I guess, the Phaeacians. 0:26:28.220 --> 0:26:30.620 And they are showing some serious Xenia. They are like 0:26:30.920 --> 0:26:35.210 great hosts to him. Say, come on into the royal court. 0:26:35.330 --> 0:26:37.929 Here's everything you need in the way of food and 0:26:37.970 --> 0:26:38.830 wine and protection. 0:26:39.150 --> 0:26:41.550 Right. And the reason we said that book five starts 0:26:41.609 --> 0:26:45.160 as a flashback because it's Odysseus is being really well 0:26:45.220 --> 0:26:47.640 taken care of by the Phacians, and the Phacian king, 0:26:48.060 --> 0:26:50.280 I guess one night while they're feasting, says, Hey, man, 0:26:50.859 --> 0:26:54.129 tell us your story. What's going on with you, buddy? 0:26:54.869 --> 0:26:58.850 And Odysseus basically tells the story of the Odyssey, everything 0:26:58.869 --> 0:27:03.210 he's been through up to that point. And this is 0:27:03.369 --> 0:27:07.470 kind of... I mean, this is the part where everybody's like, 0:27:07.710 --> 0:27:09.840 when they talk about the Odyssey, this is the stuff 0:27:09.859 --> 0:27:14.320 they're talking about, where he's recounting his adventures in flashback 0:27:14.380 --> 0:27:15.280 to the Fascians. 0:27:15.780 --> 0:27:18.060 That's right. And this is the real flashback. I guess, 0:27:18.280 --> 0:27:20.460 I mean, we sort of misspoke earlier, but I think 0:27:20.520 --> 0:27:23.040 everyone gets it, right? Sure. Okay, great. 0:27:23.060 --> 0:27:26.379 This is the part where Matt Damon goes, do-do-do, do-do-do, do-do-do. 0:27:28.130 --> 0:27:31.870 So as soon as Odysseus leaves with his big fleet 0:27:31.890 --> 0:27:34.350 of ships, there are about 600 soldiers. They're all headed 0:27:34.410 --> 0:27:39.940 home from The war at Troy, once again. Athena sends 0:27:40.000 --> 0:27:43.390 some storms that way, veer the ships off course. Athena 0:27:43.430 --> 0:27:45.250 is mad at this point about war crimes that they 0:27:45.270 --> 0:27:50.230 committed in the battles when they conquered Troy. And they 0:27:50.290 --> 0:27:54.900 landed initially at the land of the lotus eaters, which are, 0:27:55.140 --> 0:27:58.020 you know, they're eating lotus. So they're very blissful and, 0:27:58.200 --> 0:28:01.980 you know, they're basically sort of doing drugs. And Odysseus' 0:28:02.020 --> 0:28:04.040 crew is like, this place is awesome. Can we stay here? 0:28:04.530 --> 0:28:08.630 Yeah, I was curious what that's an allegory for, what 0:28:08.690 --> 0:28:11.290 drug or whatever, you know? 0:28:11.310 --> 0:28:13.600 I mean, I guess it was lotus at the time, right? 0:28:14.220 --> 0:28:16.280 I guess, but I've tried lotus and it doesn't get 0:28:16.320 --> 0:28:19.840 you messed up. Okay. But yes, this is what these 0:28:19.880 --> 0:28:22.640 people were doing. And Odysseus' crew was like, I'm not 0:28:22.760 --> 0:28:25.140 sure we need to keep going back home. Like, this 0:28:25.200 --> 0:28:28.250 is pretty great. These lotuses are amazing. The lotus eaters 0:28:28.330 --> 0:28:32.260 are great people. Let's just stay here. Odysseus has to 0:28:32.380 --> 0:28:36.300 drag every single one of his men, all 600 of them, 0:28:36.400 --> 0:28:39.120 back to their ships where he ties them up until 0:28:39.160 --> 0:28:41.240 he finally gets the last one and is able to 0:28:41.290 --> 0:28:44.370 set sail again from the land of the lotus eaters. 0:28:44.950 --> 0:28:47.890 That is far and away the best experience that these 0:28:47.950 --> 0:28:53.130 guys have on the Odyssey as a whole. Because the 0:28:53.190 --> 0:28:56.190 next thing that happens to them is actually the turning 0:28:56.250 --> 0:29:00.650 point that really brings on everything else. All of their misfortune, 0:29:01.340 --> 0:29:05.459 they seem to have started. And then Odysseus really drives 0:29:05.500 --> 0:29:08.640 it home on the island of the Cyclops. 0:29:09.120 --> 0:29:15.230 That's right. Obviously, one-eyed beasts, cannibalistic even. And they end 0:29:15.290 --> 0:29:17.770 up trapped in a cave there. We mentioned Poseidon's son 0:29:17.810 --> 0:29:22.830 is a Cyclops. That's Polyphemus. And he's just eating these guys. 0:29:23.330 --> 0:29:26.450 If you see the movie, this is an actual puppet. 0:29:26.600 --> 0:29:28.760 It is not CGI, which is incredible. 0:29:29.640 --> 0:29:29.820 Oh really? 0:29:29.840 --> 0:29:31.600 Because it looks amazing, yeah. 0:29:31.620 --> 0:29:32.240 I'll bet. 0:29:32.800 --> 0:29:36.410 And Odysseus blinds Polyphemus to get everyone out of there, 0:29:36.950 --> 0:29:39.330 out of the cave, and they are able to flee 0:29:39.370 --> 0:29:44.440 the Cyclops and then suffer another attack by a tribe 0:29:44.480 --> 0:29:46.520 of giant cannibals called. 0:29:47.700 --> 0:29:49.400 The Laestrygonians. 0:29:49.980 --> 0:29:50.480 Yeah, nice work. 0:29:51.380 --> 0:29:53.880 So I just want to go back to, is it 0:29:54.100 --> 0:29:56.160 Polyphemus or Polyphemus? 0:29:57.220 --> 0:29:58.180 I would say Polyphemus. 0:29:58.200 --> 0:29:58.280 Okay. 0:29:58.320 --> 0:30:01.450 Okay. So, like you said, he's the son of Poseidon. 0:30:01.970 --> 0:30:04.459 I read that Odysseus and his men came onto the 0:30:04.580 --> 0:30:08.000 island of the Cyclops and just started eating all of Polyphemus' 0:30:08.380 --> 0:30:12.320 sheep and basically made terrible guests of themselves. Is that 0:30:12.380 --> 0:30:12.900 not correct? 0:30:14.110 --> 0:30:16.490 Well, I don't know if that's in the movie. I 0:30:16.510 --> 0:30:17.030 can't remember. 0:30:17.290 --> 0:30:21.330 Okay. But either way, I read that it wasn't just 0:30:21.390 --> 0:30:25.260 completely one-sided, that Polyphemus was wronged first. At any rate... 0:30:26.180 --> 0:30:31.460 After they escaped the Lestrigonians, which is another tribe of giants, 0:30:31.550 --> 0:30:33.590 but I believe they're more human-like, right? 0:30:34.810 --> 0:30:37.430 They're not in the movie either. Okay. Everything I know 0:30:37.450 --> 0:30:39.470 about the Odyssey, I know from a little research and 0:30:39.510 --> 0:30:40.310 then seeing that movie. 0:30:40.490 --> 0:30:43.950 Okay, gotcha. So in the book, the Lestrigonians, they come 0:30:43.990 --> 0:30:48.890 right after the Cyclops, and they're another tribe of giant cannibals. 0:30:48.990 --> 0:30:51.950 But from what I saw, they're more human-like. They're like soldiers, 0:30:51.990 --> 0:30:56.360 but giant. They eat a bunch of guys. And after that, 0:30:57.440 --> 0:31:00.640 there's the shipwreck. And the reason why there's the shipwreck 0:31:01.020 --> 0:31:05.500 is because Polyphemus, son of Poseidon, prays to his father 0:31:05.560 --> 0:31:09.510 and says, please mess Odysseus' junk up. 0:31:10.730 --> 0:31:13.950 That's right. And so they end up on the island 0:31:14.250 --> 0:31:17.810 of Circe, who was a goddess, sort of enchantress, sort 0:31:17.830 --> 0:31:19.510 of portrayed like, sort of witch-like. 0:31:19.610 --> 0:31:19.850 Yeah. 0:31:20.570 --> 0:31:23.880 And she falls in love with Odysseus. Um, she turns 0:31:24.060 --> 0:31:27.860 the guys, his, his dudes into pigs and Odysseus gets 0:31:27.880 --> 0:31:29.440 a little help from the gods and forces her to 0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:31.360 turn them back into men so they can get on 0:31:31.380 --> 0:31:31.760 with stuff. 0:31:32.270 --> 0:31:32.380 Yeah. 0:31:32.420 --> 0:31:34.690 I saw, I've read that that was like the coolest, 0:31:35.050 --> 0:31:37.530 most disturbing scene in the whole movie. Is that right? 0:31:38.710 --> 0:31:39.850 I mean, I don't know. It was great. 0:31:40.260 --> 0:31:45.420 Okay, so Odysseus ends up getting kind of hooked up 0:31:45.480 --> 0:31:49.430 by Circe, who basically says, head on to the land 0:31:49.470 --> 0:31:50.910 of the dead, because you're going to get a lot 0:31:50.950 --> 0:31:55.010 of important, valuable information there. He meets Agamemnon there, who 0:31:55.070 --> 0:31:59.760 was killed in the Iliad, and he meets his mom there, 0:32:00.000 --> 0:32:03.420 which is nice. And then, most importantly, he meets Tiresias, 0:32:03.460 --> 0:32:06.500 who is a prophet of Apollo, who, as a side note, 0:32:06.520 --> 0:32:09.560 became a woman for seven years, which is kind of interesting. 0:32:10.100 --> 0:32:14.530 And then Tiresias basically says, you really need to make 0:32:14.590 --> 0:32:17.390 an offer to Poseidon, some sort of sacrifice or something, 0:32:17.410 --> 0:32:21.110 because he's really mad that you blinded Polyphemus, his son, 0:32:21.130 --> 0:32:25.330 the Cyclops. And one other thing, this is very important. 0:32:25.690 --> 0:32:29.630 Do not let anyone eat the sun god's sacred cattle 0:32:30.010 --> 0:32:32.410 on the island of Helios. You're going to end up 0:32:32.490 --> 0:32:35.410 on Helios, by the way. I'm a prophet, so I know. 0:32:36.010 --> 0:32:36.190 Yeah. 0:32:36.620 --> 0:32:39.920 So he says, all right, check. Do not eat sacred cattle. 0:32:40.320 --> 0:32:45.000 Got it. So before going on to Ithaca, Odysseus goes 0:32:45.060 --> 0:32:48.440 back to Circe's island. She's like, I'm going to hook 0:32:48.460 --> 0:32:50.709 you up even further. Here's some beeswax because you're not 0:32:50.770 --> 0:32:52.190 going to want to hear that siren song. 0:32:52.350 --> 0:32:53.070 Sure. 0:32:53.110 --> 0:32:58.530 Protect all your guys. You need to steer towards Scylla because, 0:32:58.550 --> 0:33:00.590 as we'll see, there's a very narrow sort of passage 0:33:00.610 --> 0:33:01.390 that's very fraught. 0:33:01.670 --> 0:33:01.870 Yeah. 0:33:02.050 --> 0:33:07.040 And she says, go towards Scylla and not Charybdis because 0:33:07.060 --> 0:33:09.900 that's the bad way. Mm-hmm. And also, by the way, 0:33:09.930 --> 0:33:12.210 I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but man, do 0:33:12.270 --> 0:33:13.760 not eat any of that guy's cattle. 0:33:15.020 --> 0:33:18.740 So now the second person to mention this, which suggests 0:33:18.840 --> 0:33:21.610 strongly that they are definitely going to eat the cattle. 0:33:22.130 --> 0:33:22.590 Yeah, for sure. 0:33:23.360 --> 0:33:27.840 So after leaving Circe's island and setting sail, remember, every 0:33:27.860 --> 0:33:31.360 time they set sail, they're going toward home, toward Ithaca. 0:33:31.420 --> 0:33:35.280 They just keep getting delayed and shipwrecked. And Poseidon's really 0:33:35.320 --> 0:33:40.480 messing with them as per Polyphemus's request. The next challenge 0:33:40.550 --> 0:33:43.590 that they go to is the Sirens, which is why Circe's, 0:33:43.610 --> 0:33:47.930 like you said, gave Odysseus earwax. And Odysseus is like, 0:33:48.010 --> 0:33:49.910 I got to see what all this is about. So 0:33:49.950 --> 0:33:53.640 he gives the earwax to all of his men. And says, 0:33:54.110 --> 0:33:57.000 lash me to the mast. I want to hear it. 0:33:57.090 --> 0:34:00.130 But no matter what I say, while I'm under the 0:34:00.170 --> 0:34:03.610 spell of the siren song, do not untie me. And 0:34:03.730 --> 0:34:05.070 apparently it works out pretty great. 0:34:05.790 --> 0:34:11.180 Yeah. He makes it through that. They all survive. And 0:34:11.219 --> 0:34:14.080 then they reach that strait that Cersei had warned him about, 0:34:14.780 --> 0:34:20.259 which has monsters on both sides. That's Scylla and Charybdis. 0:34:21.390 --> 0:34:23.549 On the Scylla side, you've got a six-headed beast who 0:34:23.969 --> 0:34:26.319 is going to eat you. On the Charybdis side, you're 0:34:26.340 --> 0:34:30.100 going to encounter some massive whirlpools that will destroy your 0:34:30.140 --> 0:34:32.960 ship like it's going down a toilet. And so Odysseus 0:34:33.000 --> 0:34:35.980 is like, all right, she said to steer, to avoid 0:34:36.000 --> 0:34:40.160 that whirlpool and steer toward that monster, toward Scylla. And 0:34:40.180 --> 0:34:42.070 they do that, and the monster eats a lot of 0:34:42.110 --> 0:34:45.469 those guys. But Odysseus managed to escape with all but 0:34:45.550 --> 0:34:47.430 I think like six guys that get eaten. 0:34:47.800 --> 0:34:49.800 Right, which is a pretty good trade-off. It's like a 0:34:49.940 --> 0:34:52.940 utilitarian lesser of two evils, right? Lose the whole ship 0:34:52.960 --> 0:34:56.400 to the Whirlpool or lose six guys to Scylla. It's 0:34:56.440 --> 0:34:59.719 a pretty smart move, honestly. And if you're like, wow, 0:34:59.780 --> 0:35:03.140 he really didn't have a good option, that's because caught 0:35:03.160 --> 0:35:06.939 between Scylla and Charybdis is the original version of caught 0:35:06.960 --> 0:35:08.859 between a rock and a hard place. That's where that 0:35:08.930 --> 0:35:09.390 came from. 0:35:10.010 --> 0:35:14.430 That's right. So they eventually land at Helios. The sacred 0:35:14.469 --> 0:35:18.690 cattle are everywhere. They've gotten the two warnings by now. And, 0:35:18.730 --> 0:35:22.710 of course, like Josh said, Odysseus' men eat that cattle 0:35:22.910 --> 0:35:27.359 pretty quickly. And more divine punishment is wrought upon them. 0:35:28.000 --> 0:35:30.040 And Zeus, because Helios is like, you've got to do 0:35:30.080 --> 0:35:32.900 something here, Zeus. Zeus destroys the ship when it departs 0:35:32.940 --> 0:35:35.480 the island. And at this point now, Odysseus is the 0:35:35.580 --> 0:35:40.339 only one still living. And he washes ashore to meet Calypso. 0:35:40.500 --> 0:35:42.200 And that is where the flashback ends. 0:35:42.620 --> 0:35:46.440 Right. And then so let's go take a break and 0:35:46.480 --> 0:35:48.680 we're going to come back and wrap up the Odyssey 0:35:48.719 --> 0:35:51.950 and talk a little more about what it means for everybody. 0:35:51.969 --> 0:35:53.430 All right. We'll be right back. 0:36:10.700 --> 0:36:20.090 Learning stuff with Joshua and Charles. Stuff you should. 0:36:22.360 --> 0:36:25.700 Okay, Chuck, now we're at book 12. The last 12 0:36:25.700 --> 0:36:29.160 books are about his homecoming, his nostos, which shares the 0:36:29.200 --> 0:36:31.920 root with nostalgia. And like you said, the Fascians are 0:36:32.020 --> 0:36:36.420 excellent hosts. So they get him directly to Ithaca, finally 0:36:36.460 --> 0:36:39.140 get him home. But his homecoming is not just him 0:36:39.600 --> 0:36:42.620 showing up and everything's great. Like his kingdom has fallen 0:36:42.640 --> 0:36:46.379 to shreds. In the 20 years that he's been gone, 0:36:46.719 --> 0:36:49.440 Penelope's been doing everything she can to hold it all together, 0:36:49.500 --> 0:36:51.660 but she can only do so much. So he's got 0:36:51.680 --> 0:36:54.799 to disguise himself, which he does as a beggar, to 0:36:54.840 --> 0:36:57.050 kind of get the lay of the land to figure 0:36:57.150 --> 0:36:58.870 out how to put things right again. 0:36:58.890 --> 0:37:03.069 That's right. So in disguise, only his old dog and 0:37:03.110 --> 0:37:08.069 his childhood nurse, played by John Leguizamo, recognize him. But, 0:37:08.350 --> 0:37:09.650 you know, he doesn't sell him out. He keeps it 0:37:09.690 --> 0:37:13.320 a secret. And he is being mistreated at the palace 0:37:13.380 --> 0:37:15.940 by the suitors, of course, who I think we've established 0:37:16.020 --> 0:37:16.680 are big jerks. 0:37:16.820 --> 0:37:18.040 Sure. 0:37:19.060 --> 0:37:22.180 Telemachus returns from his journey and he's like, all right, 0:37:22.239 --> 0:37:25.819 this is my son. He's a grown up Spider-Man now. 0:37:25.880 --> 0:37:27.960 And when I left him, he was just a little kid. 0:37:28.400 --> 0:37:30.940 And so I got to like at least meet this 0:37:31.020 --> 0:37:34.200 guy and reveal myself to him. And he does that. 0:37:34.219 --> 0:37:36.140 So he reveals himself to his son at least. 0:37:37.110 --> 0:37:40.920 He does. And his son's like, great, let's figure out 0:37:40.960 --> 0:37:44.740 how to get the house back, right? And your kingdom 0:37:44.780 --> 0:37:47.040 and everything. So they get together and start planning how 0:37:47.080 --> 0:37:51.240 to get everything back. And meanwhile, Penelope's finally like, okay, 0:37:51.300 --> 0:37:55.870 my husband is dead. And I'm going to hold a 0:37:56.850 --> 0:37:59.270 contest for all of you suitors. Whoever can shoot an 0:37:59.390 --> 0:38:02.950 arrow through 12 axe heads in a row, which only 0:38:03.010 --> 0:38:05.529 Odysseus has been able to do, whoever can do that, 0:38:06.290 --> 0:38:08.770 I will marry. And so they hold a contest, or 0:38:08.810 --> 0:38:11.590 she does, and every single one of the hundred suitors misses. 0:38:12.180 --> 0:38:15.239 Can't do it. Then Odysseus is the beggar, is like, 0:38:15.300 --> 0:38:18.600 can I have my try? And she allows it. And 0:38:18.700 --> 0:38:21.799 he successfully shoots the arrow through the 12 axe heads. 0:38:22.500 --> 0:38:25.830 And she knows that that's Odysseus, but she still has 0:38:25.890 --> 0:38:26.690 a test for him. 0:38:27.370 --> 0:38:30.210 That's right. Well, before that, though, the big part of 0:38:30.270 --> 0:38:34.239 that is being able to string that bow. Because apparently 0:38:34.440 --> 0:38:38.259 it's just some bow that's so powerful that no one 0:38:38.300 --> 0:38:39.950 has ever been able to even string it. 0:38:40.210 --> 0:38:40.450 Wow. 0:38:41.150 --> 0:38:45.310 So Odysseus, of course, once he strings that thing, everyone's like, oh, 0:38:45.630 --> 0:38:48.610 is that the dude? Okay. And then the shooting the 0:38:48.670 --> 0:38:50.469 arrow through is almost like the cherry on top. 0:38:50.630 --> 0:38:51.390 Gotcha. Okay. 0:38:51.550 --> 0:38:51.720 Yeah. 0:38:52.300 --> 0:38:55.120 And then, of course, the suitors are like, well, if 0:38:55.160 --> 0:38:57.200 they suspect who he is or now they know who 0:38:57.239 --> 0:39:00.739 he is, a huge battle takes place with Odysseus and Telemachus. 0:39:01.719 --> 0:39:05.239 vanquishing is probably the best word for it. All hundred suitors, right? 0:39:05.260 --> 0:39:07.220 And I'm sure it's very satisfying to see them all 0:39:07.260 --> 0:39:07.910 get their due. 0:39:08.550 --> 0:39:11.690 Yeah, they get their due. And after the battle, Penelope, 0:39:11.770 --> 0:39:14.190 who is at this point, she's like, I think that 0:39:14.250 --> 0:39:17.850 might be my guy. Like, first of all, he looks 0:39:17.890 --> 0:39:18.410 just like him. 0:39:18.630 --> 0:39:18.830 Right. 0:39:20.110 --> 0:39:21.790 And second of all, he could string that bow and 0:39:21.830 --> 0:39:23.490 no one else could. And then he made that shot. 0:39:23.570 --> 0:39:25.790 So it's just one of those things where you have 0:39:25.810 --> 0:39:28.190 to suspend disbelief a little bit. It's an ancient text. 0:39:29.790 --> 0:39:31.120 You know, Because you would think as soon as her 0:39:31.160 --> 0:39:33.240 husband walks through the door, he'd be like, honey, I'm home. 0:39:33.280 --> 0:39:36.430 And she's like, oh my God, it's you. But she 0:39:36.489 --> 0:39:39.810 suspects that it's him and confirms it in this way. 0:39:40.330 --> 0:39:43.230 In front of Odysseus, she's asked for a servant to 0:39:43.350 --> 0:39:45.430 move their marital bed. Like, hey, can you move this 0:39:45.489 --> 0:39:48.910 over here? I'm doing a little redecorating. And Odysseus knows, 0:39:48.969 --> 0:39:51.460 he was like, You can't move that thing. I carved 0:39:51.480 --> 0:39:54.799 that bed from a still live olive tree. So that 0:39:54.830 --> 0:39:57.569 thing is still like literally rooted to the ground. And 0:39:57.630 --> 0:39:59.690 I know that it can't be moved. And she's like, 0:39:59.950 --> 0:40:00.950 it is him. Yeah. 0:40:01.890 --> 0:40:05.230 And so they get back together. It's very sweet, I'm sure. 0:40:06.670 --> 0:40:11.669 Telemachus is there. Everything's going really great. Then a civil 0:40:11.710 --> 0:40:15.239 war breaks out among the Souter's families, who many of 0:40:15.280 --> 0:40:18.420 them are ready to avenge the death of their family members. 0:40:19.090 --> 0:40:21.660 And before things can get really out of hand, Athena, 0:40:21.739 --> 0:40:23.920 who's also the goddess of war in addition to wisdom, 0:40:23.960 --> 0:40:27.100 steps in and says, stop this war. That's enough war 0:40:27.180 --> 0:40:31.200 for now. And everybody lays down their arms and Odysseus 0:40:31.580 --> 0:40:34.299 is finally home and things are back to normal. It's 0:40:34.320 --> 0:40:37.739 like the end of a Brady Bunch episode. Everything's just 0:40:37.780 --> 0:40:38.680 back to normal. 0:40:39.580 --> 0:40:42.100 That's right. Except Cousin Oliver's there. So everyone's kind of 0:40:42.120 --> 0:40:45.060 wondering where he came from. So we should probably talk 0:40:45.100 --> 0:40:46.180 a little bit more about. 0:40:47.950 --> 0:40:52.069 Just the history, because I wondered after I saw it, because, again, 0:40:52.110 --> 0:40:53.609 I hadn't studied this, so I didn't know a lot 0:40:53.650 --> 0:40:55.509 about it. I was like, I mean, what about like 0:40:55.610 --> 0:40:58.150 was any of this true? Was there a sort of 0:40:58.190 --> 0:41:00.890 stand in for Odysseus? And was there even a Trojan 0:41:01.010 --> 0:41:03.589 War and all this stuff? And it turns out like 0:41:03.730 --> 0:41:04.469 probably not. Right. 0:41:05.680 --> 0:41:08.600 Well, they do think that there is probably a Trojan War. 0:41:08.660 --> 0:41:14.560 They do think that they've kind of identified Troy. Now, 0:41:14.680 --> 0:41:18.200 it's a town that's called Hizarlik. There's a mountain nearby 0:41:18.360 --> 0:41:21.859 called that Hizarlik. And they're like, we're pretty sure this 0:41:21.940 --> 0:41:24.940 is the actual Troy that was originally discovered in the 0:41:25.120 --> 0:41:29.259 19th century by Heinrich Schliemann. And it shows evidence of 0:41:29.320 --> 0:41:31.969 having been burned and rebuilt time after time after time. 0:41:32.230 --> 0:41:36.129 But there's one layer, layer seven, That they're like, this 0:41:36.190 --> 0:41:40.500 coincides with Homer's time. And they found some things like 0:41:40.540 --> 0:41:42.620 they found a pile of rocks that they think is 0:41:42.660 --> 0:41:46.980 slingshot ammunition outside of the city. And they're like, evidence 0:41:47.020 --> 0:41:50.980 of war. So historians seem to think that this is 0:41:51.120 --> 0:41:57.200 probably Troy. And it conceivably gives some backup to the 0:41:57.280 --> 0:41:59.469 idea that there was a Trojan War and it did 0:41:59.510 --> 0:42:01.830 take place during Homer's time. Right. 0:42:02.390 --> 0:42:04.549 Whether or not there was a Trojan horse, there have 0:42:04.570 --> 0:42:08.870 been some archaeological finds that were pre-Odyssey that depicted men 0:42:09.090 --> 0:42:11.109 climbing out of a giant wheeled horse. So you might 0:42:11.130 --> 0:42:12.430 think like, boom, of course there was. 0:42:12.450 --> 0:42:13.310 Yeah. 0:42:13.410 --> 0:42:15.410 But a lot of people think it was probably like 0:42:15.469 --> 0:42:20.970 symbolic or maybe a metaphor that Homer adapted. There are 0:42:20.989 --> 0:42:24.940 definitely routes and paths that they sail that are, you know, 0:42:24.980 --> 0:42:28.930 historically accurate throughout the Mediterranean Sea. Right. although they don't 0:42:28.950 --> 0:42:31.770 know the exact path and if that's a real thing. 0:42:32.790 --> 0:42:34.790 But they think that a lot of the stuff, like 0:42:34.830 --> 0:42:42.140 the monsters, may be, again, symbolic about seafaring things that 0:42:42.160 --> 0:42:46.340 you had to navigate around, basically. Like Scylla and Charybdis 0:42:47.200 --> 0:42:50.879 are the opposing currents of the Strait of Messina, or 0:42:50.960 --> 0:42:54.739 the Sirens are maybe the shoals along the Mediterranean that 0:42:54.760 --> 0:42:55.279 are dangerous. 0:42:55.810 --> 0:43:01.089 Right. Somebody pointed to Mount Etna on Sicily as the Cyclops, 0:43:01.450 --> 0:43:05.030 one-eyed Cyclops, which was really destructive. Sure it does. It 0:43:05.070 --> 0:43:07.989 seems like a stretch to me. But the idea that 0:43:08.030 --> 0:43:12.670 these are metaphors for navigating conditions that you have to 0:43:12.710 --> 0:43:15.490 look out for makes a lot of sense because these 0:43:15.570 --> 0:43:19.030 stories were told by seafaring people. So that definitely holds 0:43:19.090 --> 0:43:20.140 a lot of weight for sure. 0:43:20.860 --> 0:43:21.060 Yeah. 0:43:21.780 --> 0:43:23.700 So my initial question is like, why is this thing 0:43:23.719 --> 0:43:27.009 still interesting? people and it's you know, it's because the 0:43:27.030 --> 0:43:31.360 story like it is a truly timeless story because and 0:43:31.380 --> 0:43:33.759 it has a lot of Universal appeal because it's it's 0:43:33.840 --> 0:43:36.239 about homecoming and everyone can identify with that kind of 0:43:36.260 --> 0:43:40.719 thing at one point You know a hero struggle. That's 0:43:40.739 --> 0:43:44.000 certainly nothing new like that's still a thing and you know, 0:43:44.060 --> 0:43:48.260 almost every movie You know, there's coming of age there's 0:43:48.440 --> 0:43:53.950 there's regret there's adventure Uh, there's family, there's, there's good 0:43:53.989 --> 0:43:55.870 guys and bad guys. It's like a lot of just 0:43:55.910 --> 0:43:59.430 the tenants of great movie making, uh, are just kind 0:43:59.450 --> 0:44:02.080 of right there in black and white, or I guess 0:44:02.140 --> 0:44:05.060 papyrus and whatever color they printed, uh, ink with. 0:44:05.239 --> 0:44:05.439 Right. 0:44:05.760 --> 0:44:08.320 And I think it also goes to show like it 0:44:08.420 --> 0:44:12.140 touches on values that are so universal, at least, you know, 0:44:12.200 --> 0:44:16.180 to Western eyes and ears that they, we still hold 0:44:16.219 --> 0:44:18.890 those same values today. They still make sense to us. 0:44:18.930 --> 0:44:20.330 They don't seem totally foreign. 0:44:20.969 --> 0:44:22.190 Yeah. Exactly. 0:44:23.270 --> 0:44:25.609 Uh, what else you got? Anything else? Yeah. 0:44:25.660 --> 0:44:28.720 I mean, there's been adaptations over the years, uh, beyond 0:44:28.760 --> 0:44:33.560 this movie, obviously, uh, 1922, the novel Ulysses by James 0:44:33.600 --> 0:44:36.620 Joyce was a big one because Ulysses is the Latin 0:44:37.200 --> 0:44:41.009 version of Odysseus. So that's what he's writing about in that. Yeah. Uh, 0:44:41.050 --> 0:44:43.230 there was a great novel. Um, I haven't read it yet, 0:44:43.250 --> 0:44:45.730 but I want to Margaret Atwood in 2005 wrote a 0:44:45.770 --> 0:44:51.319 novel called, uh, the Penelopiad? The Penelopiad? How do you 0:44:51.360 --> 0:44:51.680 say that? 0:44:51.780 --> 0:44:53.390 The Penelopiad is what I'm going with. 0:44:53.410 --> 0:44:54.390 The Penelopiad, I guess. 0:44:54.410 --> 0:44:57.790 Yeah, like the Iliad and Penelope. It's Penelope. She combined 0:44:57.810 --> 0:45:01.009 those two because it's the Odyssey told from Penelope's point 0:45:01.050 --> 0:45:01.330 of view. 0:45:01.350 --> 0:45:02.890 Yeah, that's kind of cool. 0:45:03.310 --> 0:45:06.190 And then, oh, brother, where art thou? is obviously an 0:45:06.310 --> 0:45:09.850 allegory for the Odyssey. I've never noticed it before. I've 0:45:09.870 --> 0:45:12.810 heard that ever since the movie came out, and I 0:45:12.850 --> 0:45:14.910 still didn't ever notice it. But I wonder now if 0:45:14.950 --> 0:45:16.950 I went back and watched it, if I would get it. 0:45:17.820 --> 0:45:20.419 I think so. I mean, it opens with a quote 0:45:20.460 --> 0:45:23.040 from Homer on screen. So they clearly tell you like 0:45:23.080 --> 0:45:23.680 what this is. 0:45:23.900 --> 0:45:24.080 Right. 0:45:24.980 --> 0:45:28.370 Up front. And, you know, George Clooney's characters name Ulysses, 0:45:30.650 --> 0:45:32.770 which is, again, the Latin version of Odysseus. 0:45:32.810 --> 0:45:33.870 Okay. 0:45:34.030 --> 0:45:35.029 It's their journey home. 0:45:35.330 --> 0:45:36.569 Sure. 0:45:36.710 --> 0:45:41.940 Very, you know, sort of plainly. Penelope in the movie, 0:45:42.000 --> 0:45:43.819 his wife's name is Penny, Holly Hunter. 0:45:43.940 --> 0:45:44.240 Okay. 0:45:45.660 --> 0:45:48.820 There are suitors trying to. Take her hand that he 0:45:48.840 --> 0:45:49.400 has to fight. 0:45:49.600 --> 0:45:51.000 Stay out of Woolworths. 0:45:52.300 --> 0:45:57.410 Exactly. There's a blind prophet that is, you know, there's 0:45:57.430 --> 0:45:58.870 just a blind prophet in the movie. There's just like 0:45:58.890 --> 0:45:59.590 a blind seer. 0:45:59.610 --> 0:46:00.690 Right. 0:46:00.790 --> 0:46:03.970 The Cyclops is Big Dan Teague, John Goodman's character. 0:46:04.370 --> 0:46:07.300 Why is he the Cyclops? Oh, he has a patch 0:46:07.380 --> 0:46:08.760 over his eye. That's right. I forgot. 0:46:09.260 --> 0:46:13.169 Yeah. So he's a Bible salesman. Uh, the sirens are 0:46:13.489 --> 0:46:16.029 like very clearly in there. They're like literally singing at 0:46:16.050 --> 0:46:19.730 the Creek and like they're under their trance. Uh, Circe 0:46:20.030 --> 0:46:22.969 and the pigs is more like the toad. They told 0:46:23.100 --> 0:46:24.719 us you was a toad. 0:46:25.320 --> 0:46:25.959 Yeah, that's right. 0:46:25.980 --> 0:46:28.200 So it turns John Turturro into a toad instead of 0:46:28.280 --> 0:46:29.440 a swine in this case. 0:46:30.460 --> 0:46:30.720 Okay. 0:46:31.120 --> 0:46:31.379 All right. 0:46:31.420 --> 0:46:32.520 I guess I'm convinced now. 0:46:33.080 --> 0:46:37.490 Yeah. And there's also like, uh, Poseidon's wrath is in there. Uh, 0:46:37.510 --> 0:46:39.549 there's the, the song, the suitors in the song when 0:46:39.570 --> 0:46:41.750 they sing man of constant sorrow, it's like, It's very 0:46:41.810 --> 0:46:44.710 kind of directly taken from the Odyssey and only the 0:46:44.750 --> 0:46:46.549 way that the Coen brothers could do something like that. 0:46:46.590 --> 0:46:47.190 They're great. 0:46:47.950 --> 0:46:49.770 They're so great. And there's a sequel too, right? 0:46:50.390 --> 0:46:51.790 To the O Brother, Where Art Thou? 0:46:52.270 --> 0:46:53.070 No, to the Odyssey. 0:46:53.450 --> 0:46:58.640 Yeah, the Telegony, which is about Odysseus' other son that's 0:46:58.680 --> 0:47:03.100 not mentioned in the Odyssey. But it supposes that he 0:47:03.140 --> 0:47:08.120 had a son with Circe on that island and they 0:47:08.160 --> 0:47:13.080 produced the son Telegonus. And Telegonus is not quite as 0:47:13.280 --> 0:47:17.200 loyal to his father as Telemachus is because he goes 0:47:17.260 --> 0:47:22.969 home and kills Odysseus and he marries Penelope. Telemachus just 0:47:22.989 --> 0:47:25.530 shrugs and says, OK, well, I guess I'll marry Circe's 0:47:25.610 --> 0:47:28.150 to get back at you. And they all become immortal. 0:47:28.910 --> 0:47:32.950 That's right. They believe it was written by a Greek 0:47:32.969 --> 0:47:37.629 poet named Eugamon of Cyrene. The funny thing about this 0:47:37.710 --> 0:47:39.710 one is it was actually lost to history. So what 0:47:39.750 --> 0:47:43.990 we know about the telegony is references from other writings 0:47:44.070 --> 0:47:44.509 about it. 0:47:44.710 --> 0:47:44.950 Right. 0:47:45.930 --> 0:47:48.690 Maybe one day, if the Odyssey is ever truly lost 0:47:48.989 --> 0:47:52.250 to history, it will listen to this podcast. 0:47:52.410 --> 0:47:52.810 Oh, yeah. 0:47:53.330 --> 0:47:55.110 To write the next version. 0:47:55.190 --> 0:47:59.489 Man, that was amazing. That's it for the Odyssey. We 0:47:59.530 --> 0:48:02.600 could turn this into a 20-part series if we wanted to, 0:48:02.980 --> 0:48:05.779 but we don't. And if you're like, I really like 0:48:05.800 --> 0:48:08.390 the movie, I really like this episode, there's so much 0:48:08.610 --> 0:48:12.450 to read about interpreting the Odyssey that's just super fascinating. 0:48:12.510 --> 0:48:16.510 So go forth and multiply your awareness of the Odyssey. 0:48:16.530 --> 0:48:19.299 And in the meantime, everybody, I think it's time for 0:48:19.380 --> 0:48:22.580 Listener Mail. 0:48:22.620 --> 0:48:25.819 This is about rope. Hey, guys. Longtime listener. I love 0:48:25.840 --> 0:48:28.440 the rope episode. I especially enjoyed the history of rope making, 0:48:28.500 --> 0:48:31.839 the explanation of how something so seemingly simple is actually 0:48:31.860 --> 0:48:34.450 a pretty ingenious piece of technology. Mm-hmm. I do think 0:48:34.469 --> 0:48:37.800 you guys missed a cool opportunity, though, to talk about 0:48:37.910 --> 0:48:42.620 rope as a transformative lifting technology. I think we might 0:48:42.640 --> 0:48:45.379 have briefly said something about raising houses, but maybe not even. 0:48:46.780 --> 0:48:49.640 While sailing ships were undoubtedly critical to connecting the world, rope, 0:48:49.700 --> 0:48:52.239 especially combined with pulleys, is what allowed us to turn 0:48:52.280 --> 0:48:55.560 human and animal muscle into something enormously more useful. Think 0:48:55.600 --> 0:48:57.879 about how much of ancient civilization depends on moving very 0:48:57.920 --> 0:49:01.410 heavy things upward. Temples, city walls, aqueducts, bridges, you name it. 0:49:01.900 --> 0:49:04.540 Rope didn't just rig the ships and build civilizations. help 0:49:04.560 --> 0:49:08.500 build the civilizations themselves. Anyway, great episode, guys. Thanks for 0:49:08.540 --> 0:49:10.410 making me spend the rest of the day thinking about rope. 0:49:10.930 --> 0:49:13.610 Not something I expected to do. That is from Jonathan. 0:49:13.810 --> 0:49:16.549 Thanks a lot, Jonathan. You make a great case, just 0:49:16.570 --> 0:49:19.670 like you did, Chuck, with comparing your brother, Warthog, and 0:49:19.770 --> 0:49:23.680 the odyssey okay uh if you want to be like 0:49:23.719 --> 0:49:25.960 jonathan and send us an awesome email we love that 0:49:26.000 --> 0:49:38.140 kind of thing uh you can wrap it up Stuff 0:49:38.160 --> 0:49:40.960 You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more 0:49:41.000 --> 0:49:45.170 podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 0:49:45.190 --> 0:49:46.890 wherever you listen to your favorite shows.