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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Wednesday, November nineteenth, and we

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Speaker 2: have a stacked night of headlines.

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Speaker 3: Boy do we ever?

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Speaker 2: By the way, everybody buckle up because President Trump has

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Speaker 2: signed the bill that will officially get the Epstein files released.

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Speaker 3: The clock has started.

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Speaker 2: He has thirty days and the DOJ is on board

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Speaker 2: to hopefully set all those names and files and gigabytes free.

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Speaker 2: So high five to the room. Everybody's feeling encouraged and excited. Also,

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Speaker 2: pop star singer David Now, this news is everywhere and

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Speaker 2: it seems as though he is going to be an

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Speaker 2: actual suspect in this and it's upsetting and are there

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Speaker 2: other people involved? It seems as though the walls are

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Speaker 2: closing in on all things David, So so much to

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Speaker 2: unpack there. Brian Walsh, the accused wife killer, is confessing

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Speaker 2: to some of it, not all of it, but some

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Speaker 2: of it. So when we have to break that down

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Speaker 2: to what does that mean? How can you confess to

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Speaker 2: dismembering a body and not confess to the actual murder

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Speaker 2: of So here we go on that, and also it's

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Speaker 2: true crime and chill everybody. So hopefully you have watched

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Speaker 2: the Netflix documentary about Eileen. She is the Queen of

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Speaker 2: the serial killers and it's super disturbing but a case

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Speaker 2: that we definitely have to unpack.

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Speaker 3: But we've had a lot of legal.

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Speaker 2: Questions and thankfully it is a Wednesday because we have

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Speaker 2: the prosecutor himself. The prosecutor, Jarrett Farentino, is in the

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Speaker 2: house with us tonight and we have them for a

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Speaker 2: couple of what do we call this acts, We have

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Speaker 2: them for a couple of egments segments exactly, and he's

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Speaker 2: going to answer all of our legal questions and we've

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Speaker 2: been stacking them up all the way time, saving them up.

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Speaker 2: We put this in a little special column called the Prosecutor.

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Speaker 2: So welcome everybody. I'm Stephanie Leidecker. We hope you had

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Speaker 2: a beautiful day. I'm here of course with my True

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Speaker 2: Crime girls. Body move in Courtney Armstrong. We have Tahar,

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Speaker 2: our producer, and of course Sam and Adam tending all

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Speaker 2: the phones and doing all that fancy stuff in the

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Speaker 2: control room. And of course we have Jarrett Farantino with.

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Speaker 3: US live and Act one.

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Speaker 2: Come on, Jarrett, are you ready to rumble?

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Speaker 4: Or what?

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Speaker 5: Another quiet true time night right in America?

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Speaker 3: Unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the day starts one way and BOYD, does

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Speaker 2: it end another. So I will just go on record

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Speaker 2: and saying I feel really excited by the speed with

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Speaker 2: which things have passed through the Congress into the Senate,

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Speaker 2: and now President Trump has signed the bill, and I

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Speaker 2: feel confident that we will get some real answers and

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Speaker 2: all things epstein period the end. And let's sa add

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Speaker 2: an exclamation point.

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Speaker 6: I want a question mark?

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Speaker 3: How about that?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: No, wait, so a question mark with a side of

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Speaker 2: a side eye.

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Speaker 3: Okay, understood, understood. Everybody's nodding in approval on that.

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Speaker 2: So I again, I'll remain the last man standing on

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Speaker 2: this one.

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Speaker 6: I love the optimism.

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Speaker 2: I listen, We're listen, slow and steady, slow and steady.

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Speaker 2: I have confidence. So, Boddy David, where should we begin

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Speaker 2: with this?

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Speaker 4: Well, let's just kind of summarize what happened. A police

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Speaker 4: source with LAPD has said that singer David is now

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Speaker 4: being considered a suspect in the death of fourteen year

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Speaker 4: old Celestie Hernandez as investigators start treating.

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Speaker 6: This case as a homicide.

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Speaker 4: Finally, Celestivus Hernandez, as we know, was found deceased in

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Speaker 4: the trunk or fronk of David's abandon tesla on September eighth,

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Speaker 4: a day.

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Speaker 6: After what would have been her fifteenth birthday.

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Speaker 4: It's being reported fifteen year old Celestias Hernandez, but she

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Speaker 4: was fourteen years old when she passed, so let's let's

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Speaker 4: clear that up.

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Speaker 3: She was fourteen years old.

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Speaker 4: Her death is still the manner of death is still

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Speaker 4: listed as deferred. Although the singer has not been charged officially,

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Speaker 4: police are investigating his potential connection to the case, while

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Speaker 4: conflicting accounts emerge about his cooperation. And the reason that

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Speaker 4: we're kind of bringing this up today is because we

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Speaker 4: have Jarrett here, right, We have Jarrett here, and we

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Speaker 4: were saving some of the We had some really good

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Speaker 4: talkback sisterday asking about this case, and there were a

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Speaker 4: couple of things that we Jarrett weren't really one d

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Speaker 4: percent confident in answering, because you know, we're not you know,

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Speaker 4: the prosecutors like you. You know, so we thought, oh, let's

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Speaker 4: ask Jared. So we just had a couple questions from

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Speaker 4: some of our listeners if that was.

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Speaker 3: Okay with you, sure, talcol.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so one of them was, and this was, you know,

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Speaker 4: a pretty I had my own answer.

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Speaker 6: But let's see what you say.

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Speaker 4: If David is a murder suspect, why hasn't he been

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Speaker 4: arrested or taken into custody.

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Speaker 5: That's a really common question when somebody becomes a suspect

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Speaker 5: as opposed to becoming a defendant.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 5: One is a legal act, the other is an investigative act.

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Speaker 5: So to call someone a suspect, you don't need to

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Speaker 5: go into a courtroom and push forth probable cause or

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Speaker 5: any charges or meet any standard. You just throw it

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Speaker 5: out there and you say this person. It goes from person,

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Speaker 5: here's the list you don't want to be on your

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Speaker 5: person of interest. Then you become a suspect, and eventually

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Speaker 5: you become a defendant. Okay, it appears it's heading that way.

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Speaker 5: It's it's it's momentous in this investigation. Because this is

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Speaker 5: a source within the LAPD. They've been pretty hush on this,

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Speaker 5: but sometimes investigative agencies plant this information. They get it

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Speaker 5: out there to get a tactical advantage to put pressure

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Speaker 5: on an individual like David or people in his inner circle.

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Speaker 5: They do it to build probable cause they want people talking,

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Speaker 5: they want people nervous, they want suspect tracked and how

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Speaker 5: much you want to bu biggie at biggies to prevent

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Speaker 5: flight if they if David is planning on going underground

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Speaker 5: now people at bus stations and airports and that they

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Speaker 5: know this guy's really being looked at. So again, those

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Speaker 5: are the reasons behind calling some of the suspect.

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Speaker 4: It's so I'm so glad you said that when you

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Speaker 4: were talking about this, the pressure and whatnot, because the

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Speaker 4: next question that a listener could the LAPD source revealing

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Speaker 4: this update to the me be a strategic leak to

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Speaker 4: get others who may have been involved in the case talking.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think definitely. Because once people feel like the

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Speaker 5: LATD is you know this no information, they think they're

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Speaker 5: a step ahead of investigating. Once this sentiment comes out,

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Speaker 5: people who don't have as much to worry about like David,

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Speaker 5: may start to get nervous and start to talk or.

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Speaker 4: Making phone calls, right emails, text messages. You know things

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Speaker 4: that the police can eventually go, oh, look at that.

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Speaker 2: Right, you're literally dropping a bomb in his circle and

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Speaker 2: then seeing who reacts. Right, So it's every one of

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Speaker 2: the buddies, you know, I'm paraphrasing here. We don't know

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Speaker 2: who's been identified in his circle, but let's just assert

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Speaker 2: the fact that there's probably more than.

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Speaker 3: One person, as it's been at least reported on.

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Speaker 2: So they are basically saying it's a homicide, which is

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Speaker 2: the first time they're really saying that degree.

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Speaker 3: That's pretty major.

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Speaker 2: You had said it last night, Body that it's only

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Speaker 2: been two months since this happened, or since at least

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Speaker 2: we've been talking about it, and for some reason, it

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Speaker 2: seems like one hundred months.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it seems like a really long.

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Speaker 2: Time that we haven't had a person of interest or

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Speaker 2: something hitting the press in a more meaningful way. And

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Speaker 2: that seems to me like strategy that the LAPD we're

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Speaker 2: keeping it very very close, which must mean they know

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Speaker 2: that there's something in the mix here and they have

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Speaker 2: maybe some probable cause, I'm assuming, and that by dropping

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Speaker 2: this to the media, they can now see who calls who,

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Speaker 2: in which one of the friends is freaking out and

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Speaker 2: maybe one of them will turn on the other and

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Speaker 2: people start.

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Speaker 3: Chatting and talking.

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Speaker 2: Right, So I think we're going to have an arrest

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Speaker 2: within days.

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Speaker 3: Heart I think I said, I think you said by

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Speaker 3: the weekend. I do.

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Speaker 2: I think even by the weekend. Now I'm saying that

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Speaker 2: on a Wednesday. So maybe that was an overshot, but

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Speaker 2: maybe not. I don't think you plan that if you

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Speaker 2: don't think there's something actionable right behind it, Because again,

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Speaker 2: David's a very popular guy, he's a successful artist. I

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Speaker 2: don't think you throw that out there if you're not

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Speaker 2: ready to catch the kill. And that would also have

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Speaker 2: some potential backlash. And I think everyone's been pretty kind

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Speaker 2: to David the pop star. It's kind of been out

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Speaker 2: of the news. I've actually been shocked that it wasn't

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Speaker 2: breaking news every single day. How do we find answers

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Speaker 2: for Celeste? She was fourteen years old at the bare minimum.

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Speaker 2: If there in fact had a inappropriate relationship, that was

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Speaker 2: one problem. But now they're saying she was in fact dismembered,

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Speaker 2: and this wasn't just a basic composition. You know, we

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Speaker 2: were wondering and we talked about this with Joseph Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps the fact that we haven't heard more is because

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Speaker 2: her body was in such a state of decomposition. I

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Speaker 2: was paraphrasing and desition. Yeah that maybe it wasn't just member,

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Speaker 2: but now what they looking like it was.

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Speaker 4: They would be able to see tool marks from that

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Speaker 4: and whatnot. So it's very specific language though that they used.

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Speaker 5: So of the other information body too. As they're saying

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Speaker 5: she was dismembered by a group. If you saw that

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Speaker 5: being reported, which means someone's talking exact think of Robert Durst.

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Speaker 5: You can dismember a body on your own, and he

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Speaker 5: was a little guy.

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Speaker 3: He was an older guy too. He was like a

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Speaker 3: little old guy.

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Speaker 5: So somebody is talking, Why doy know a group was

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Speaker 5: part of that process? There's only one way you could

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Speaker 5: definitively conclude that.

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Speaker 7: Man, this information just keeps coming out, and we'll obviously

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Speaker 7: keep everyone abreast as it continues.

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Speaker 3: This is true crime tonight. You're listening to Courtney Armstrong.

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Speaker 7: I'm here luckily as always with Body Move and Stephanie Leidecker.

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Speaker 7: And on this Wednesday, we are joined by Prosecutor Jarrett Farrantino.

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Speaker 7: If you have questions for him, and in the legal realm,

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Speaker 7: give us a call eighty eight three one crime. We

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Speaker 7: were just talking about Celeste Reevas Hernandez, whose body was

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Speaker 7: found in the trunk of the pop star David. And

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Speaker 7: now I think we're going to turn our attention to

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Speaker 7: a different story. Body, Can you give us the update

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Speaker 7: on Melody Buzzard and our mother?

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Speaker 4: Yes, this Melody Buzzard case. I just where's Melody? Where

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Speaker 4: where is Melody? Where's Melody? So investigators are continuing to

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Speaker 4: search for a missing nine year old Melody Buzzard as

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Speaker 4: her mother, Ashley was in court today facing an unrelated

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Speaker 4: false imprisonment charge. Melody Buzzard again, She's nine years old.

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Speaker 4: She disappeared during an October road trip with her mother,

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Speaker 4: who later returned alone and has not been cooperating with

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Speaker 4: the police to explain her child's whereabouts. The FBI and

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Speaker 4: the local Sheriff's office are investigating this disappearance, and Ashley

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Speaker 4: Buzzard is simultaneously facing a separate felony case for this

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Speaker 4: fall imprisonment. Remember this Tyler, I think his name is

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Speaker 4: Tyler person who's maybe an acquaintance of her, some kind

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Speaker 4: of paralegal went to her house to see if he

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Speaker 4: could offer her assistance in the case of her missing daughter,

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Speaker 4: and apparently Ashley kind of started talking and said something

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Speaker 4: that she would you know later, Regret pulled out a

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Speaker 4: box cutter of some kind and basically helped him hostage

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Speaker 4: and he called the cops. And this is when she

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Speaker 4: got arrested and she was released with a GPS monitor

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Speaker 4: and she was in court today.

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Speaker 6: Melody again.

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Speaker 4: She was reported missing October fourteenth, after school officials noticed

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Speaker 4: her prolonged absence. Investigators are saying that Ashley has been

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Speaker 4: uncooperative and has not provide any explanation.

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Speaker 3: For her daughter's whereabouts.

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Speaker 4: I still kind of think mom thinks that, you know,

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Speaker 4: Melody might be in danger or something, and has you know,

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Speaker 4: taken her to somebody's house or I don't know. I

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Speaker 4: just this whole thing is kind of kind of crazy.

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Speaker 4: But I know that we have a talkback for Jarrett.

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Speaker 3: Is that right? Can we play that talkback?

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Speaker 8: Yes, we do. We have one about that case. So

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Speaker 8: let's get that one going.

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Speaker 9: Okay, Hey, y'all step from Bama. So I have a

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Speaker 9: question about the Melody Buzzard case. The mom was wearing

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Speaker 9: a wig, and they said that she was known to

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Speaker 9: wear wigs. I'm wondering if her wearing a wig was

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Speaker 9: an indication that she was about to do something deceptive,

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Speaker 9: like it was an indication that she's about to do

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Speaker 9: something she knows she shouldn't do. And if they were

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Speaker 9: to go back and look at times where she wore wigs,

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Speaker 9: would they find something curious?

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Speaker 4: So, yeah, Mom was known to wear wigs. In fact,

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Speaker 4: she wore a wig in court today, the same one

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Speaker 4: that she was wearing at the car rental center.

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Speaker 2: You did a full analysis on her wigs, you really did.

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Speaker 2: There's an Excel document that body has put together on

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Speaker 2: her wigs, honestly, which is a big piece of this,

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Speaker 2: because they sometimes a disguise. Sometimes it's just a daily

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Speaker 2: thing that you put a wig on. Right, Yeah, she

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Speaker 2: had not reality.

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Speaker 4: But see the thing is though, is in that in

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Speaker 4: that in this case at the car rental facility, it

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Speaker 4: looks like the little girl is wearing a wig exactly

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Speaker 4: and that has beautiful, big chilli hair.

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Speaker 2: She di hiding that.

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Speaker 4: And then the other big issue in this is not

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Speaker 4: so much Mom's wigs. I think we can kind of

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Speaker 4: maybe put that on the shelf fairhaps put that aside.

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Speaker 4: Put that aside, for a moment. But you know, the

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Speaker 4: little girl looked like she was wearing a wig, and

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Speaker 4: mom is changing the license plates, right, Jared. In your experience,

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Speaker 4: you've prosecuted hundreds of cases, maybe thousands, I'm not sure,

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Speaker 4: but hundreds of cases. Is this kind of behavior something

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Speaker 4: that you've experienced before, like this changing of license plates

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Speaker 4: and possible disguises, and is this something.

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Speaker 3: You're familiar with?

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Speaker 5: Yes, So look at the wigs alone. I agree with you.

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Speaker 5: If it's something she would regularly do, doesn't say much,

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Speaker 5: but the changing of license plates and the wigs on

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Speaker 5: Melody are indicative of hiding identity. They're trying to keep

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Speaker 5: her face off camera, and the changing of the rental

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Speaker 5: car license plate is avoiding license plate readers. She knows

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Speaker 5: someone that tracking her whereabouts and movement. That's how you

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Speaker 5: frustrate that process. So I would argue one percent the

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Speaker 5: whigs are disguise at this point and change of license

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Speaker 5: plates is hiding out in its consciousness of guilt and flight.

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Speaker 3: That is a firm statement.

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Speaker 7: We'll stick around because Prosecutor Jarrett Farentino will be with

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Speaker 7: us and he is going to help us break down

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Speaker 7: the latest in the Brian Walsh murder trial, as well

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Speaker 7: as potential legal roadblocks or questions for the Epstein survivors,

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Speaker 7: and also later where is Rebecca Park Keep it here.

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Speaker 3: At your Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here of course,

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Speaker 2: with Courtney Armstrong and body Move in and listen. It

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Speaker 2: is true crime and chill night. So hopefully you've watched

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Speaker 2: your documentary on Netflix, because we're going to be talking

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Speaker 2: about it later in the hour. But we're also answering

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Speaker 2: all of your legal questions. We have the prosecutor, Jarrett

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Speaker 2: Farantino is here himself and by the way, creating quite

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Speaker 2: the swell. So we have had quite a few questions

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Speaker 2: for you, Jarrett, and there are a lot of legal

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Speaker 2: things up in the air right now, so we are

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Speaker 2: going to jam through as many as humanly possible. And

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Speaker 2: I know what is borrowed time. So where should we

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Speaker 2: go next, Courtney?

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Speaker 7: Oh, okay, Brian Walsh, and we do have a tonage

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Speaker 7: of questions for you, Jarrett, because this is actually a

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Speaker 7: confusing one.

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Speaker 3: To get everyone up to speed.

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Speaker 7: Jury selection is continuing for the trial of the Massachusetts

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Speaker 7: man Brian Walsh. So Walsh shockingly pled guilty to moving

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Speaker 7: his dead wife's body. He also pled guilty to lying

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Speaker 7: to police about it. However, he still maintains his innocence

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Speaker 7: for a first degree murder of his wife, Anna.

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Speaker 3: Walsh, which he is also accused of. And Anna Walsh

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Speaker 3: she disappeared.

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Speaker 7: It was after New Year's Eve twenty twenty three, and

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Speaker 7: what investigators allege is that Walsh killed her, dismembered her,

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Speaker 7: and disposed of her remains. Her body never has been found.

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Speaker 7: But the prosecution, for my money, seems to have a

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Speaker 7: pretty strong case. They've got digital searches, surveillance footage, they

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Speaker 7: have recovered items as part of their case. So that's

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Speaker 7: the case, and those are what he has pled to,

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Speaker 7: which is insane. So what we wanted to know, I mean,

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Speaker 7: first of all, have you ever heard of such a

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Speaker 7: thing of saying, yes, I disposed of a body.

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Speaker 3: Yes I lied to about it, but I did. I

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Speaker 3: don't know how they died.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but not in the form of yet. I've seen

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Speaker 5: it happen in cases. For example, somebody can say I

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Speaker 5: was involved in the interment of a body. I wasn't

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Speaker 5: involved in the murder. You got me on that. I

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Speaker 5: have not seen somebody charge you with the murder plead

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Speaker 5: guilty to the dismemberment and disposal on the eve or

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Speaker 5: during jury selection of your trial. Practically, I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I know what they're thinking. It ain't gonna work.

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Speaker 6: Okay, tell me what tell me you said you know

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Speaker 6: what they're thinking. What are they thinking?

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Speaker 5: I didn't agree. Okay, they didn't offer him anything of

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Speaker 5: short of murder. So my defensor attorneys are saying, we

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Speaker 5: can go to the jury and say we fell on

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Speaker 5: the sword. Here we acknowledge he hacked her body up,

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Speaker 5: he lied to the investigators, he dumped her in dumpsters,

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Speaker 5: but he didn't kill her, and that, you know, obviously

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Speaker 5: it saves him imprisonment versus ears. So again it's an

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Speaker 5: inconvenient or it's a convenient defense. Really.

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Speaker 4: So I follow a lot of people on law to

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Speaker 4: you know, you're one of them that I follow on YouTube.

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Speaker 4: And I was watching the jury selection yesterday on a

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Speaker 4: channel of a Massachusetts lawyer who I followed for Karen Reid,

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Speaker 4: and she said, and I was like, I have forgot

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Speaker 4: to ask Jared this. She said, Oh, well, he just

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Speaker 4: pled guilty to these two lesser charges. So now the

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Speaker 4: jury is not going to hear that he pled He

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Speaker 4: pled to that, and I was like, what, Yeah, So

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Speaker 4: that's when I thought all the evidence surrounding the like

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Speaker 4: they found like a rug that you know, Anna was

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Speaker 4: rolled up in and a saw in a dumpster near

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Speaker 4: his mom's house, they're not going to hear that. And

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Speaker 4: I was like, are you kidding me?

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Speaker 3: What do you mean? So that's not true, right.

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Speaker 5: No, they're going to hear the evidence. They may not

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Speaker 5: know he pled guilty to that crime.

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Speaker 10: They do.

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Speaker 5: But here's the thing, I'm thinking, more likely now that

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Speaker 5: Walsh may take the stand because he's admitting to this.

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Speaker 5: Now in the likelihood it just became more likely. I

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Speaker 5: don't know that he's going to so he can't take

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Speaker 5: a position that he did not dismember her body or anything.

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Speaker 5: Then obviously the fleet can come in, But all of

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Speaker 5: the evidence surrounding her dismemberment and her body being disposed

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Speaker 5: of comes in because it's part of the crime. It's

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Speaker 5: part of the police So you do not forego the

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Speaker 5: presentation of bad evidence by strategically pleading guilty to a

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Speaker 5: lesser charge.

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Speaker 2: That's fascinating then, So what could possibly be the theory

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Speaker 2: here that he confesses to the lesser charges, which are

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Speaker 2: the results of the main charge. You can't dismember a

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Speaker 2: body without having an understanding of what happened to the

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Speaker 2: body in the first place.

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Speaker 3: Well, he could.

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Speaker 4: Say, he could say, I came home and I found

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Speaker 4: her dead, like, so I decided to remember her, right

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Speaker 4: because I'm a nut job.

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Speaker 6: Look, I just got hospital Stephanie.

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Speaker 5: Are you trying to apply logic to an ill logical situation? Right?

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Speaker 2: It appears so, sir, tell it to the judge because

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Speaker 2: that yeah, Like, but who's advising him? He obviously has

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Speaker 2: a lawyer that's obviously a little bit rogue as well.

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Speaker 2: Does that have any real added benefit if you're, you know,

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Speaker 2: up against a murder charge and you have to do it.

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Speaker 3: I don't get that.

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Speaker 5: And well, body and what body asks is and the

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Speaker 5: comment that that attorney made day more, the jury may

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Speaker 5: not hear he pled. I don't think he's going to

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Speaker 5: hide that fact. I think he's going to advertise that fact.

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Speaker 5: And that's what his lawyers. That's the play here. It's like,

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Speaker 5: that's that's the wrong we do. That's the strategy look,

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Speaker 5: how honest we are, right, it's not going to rights being.

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Speaker 2: You cannot get like you know, in trouble for dismembering

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Speaker 2: a car if you had no part of the theft.

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Speaker 2: I guess that's the theory here, right, But we're not

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Speaker 2: talking about a car, We're talking about a human. And

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Speaker 2: by the way, it's everywhere. So as much as you

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Speaker 2: think the local area where they're selecting a jury is,

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Speaker 2: they're not sequestered. You're going to see this information. So

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Speaker 2: I would imagine it would be very badly played to

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Speaker 2: let this information leak out to the media into the

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Speaker 2: public while a trial is happening, that he's confessing to dismemberment.

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Speaker 2: It seems to me like game.

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Speaker 3: Over, right.

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Speaker 5: I don't think he's going to hide it. Do you

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Speaker 5: ever hear the expression like who would you call if

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Speaker 5: you needed to dispose of a body?

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Speaker 10: Like?

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Speaker 5: What friend do you call? Okay? So yeah, that is

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Speaker 5: the situation where somebody comes into a situation where there

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Speaker 5: was a murder. That's not the situation with Brian Walsh.

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Speaker 5: This is his wife right right, and who he lied

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Speaker 5: about and kicked off search in Washington, DC that she

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Speaker 5: didn't know where she was. Now he's saying, well, I

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Speaker 5: didn't know where she was. I hacked her up. I mean,

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Speaker 5: he's at And let me tell you little lies when

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Speaker 5: the loved one is hurt or missing. Look at Murdall,

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Speaker 5: look at all these people. These little lies are what

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Speaker 5: nail you in the end.

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Speaker 2: Great comparison, by the way, Yeah, what a sicko.

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Speaker 7: So we have a couple of other legal questions regarding

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Speaker 7: the Brian Walsh case.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So the.

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Speaker 7: Defense attorney has asked the judge to bar testimony that

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Speaker 7: describes the victim Anna as a quote loving mother or

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Speaker 7: dedicated employee. And what the argument is is that the

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Speaker 7: statements would be inflammatory or prejudicial. Another thing the defense

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Speaker 7: is objecting to is testimony relating to the fact that

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Speaker 7: people think Anna would never abandon her children. So what

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Speaker 7: the judge says ed was that the defense may object

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Speaker 7: during the trial, but she's likely to allow the general

440
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 7: observations about her interactions. What is the precedent of not

441
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 7: being able to hear about a victim?

442
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 3: That seems very strange to me.

443
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 5: That's coming in. So what you said, Courtney, were two

444
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 5: things they're saying. It's prejudicial and inflammatory. It's prejudicial. But

445
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 5: all evidence that we put on in a prosecution that

446
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 5: would be prejudicial to your case. It's not inflammatory, though,

447
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 5: it's not inflammatory to the extent that it's so beyond

448
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 5: the pale that a jury can't understand, you know, saying

449
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 5: nice things about a victim happens in every case. You

450
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 5: can't go you cannot go beyond you know, is it

451
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 5: wrong to say she was a loving mother? No, I

452
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 5: mean it's a truthful statement and the jury needs to

453
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 5: know it. They also don't necessarily conclude from the fact

454
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 5: that she was a loving mother that Brian Walls killed her.

455
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 7: God, And so is this is this strategy common? Like

456
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,959
Speaker 7: does do a lot of defense attorneys try it just

457
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 7: to see a fiddlestick?

458
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 11: Yeah?

459
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 5: I think they. I've had defense attorneys asked not to

460
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 5: use the word victim in cases because I haven't established

461
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 5: that this person was a victim of anything. So that's

462
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 5: the kind of games that get played. And look, they're

463
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 5: going to protect that. They're trying to protect their client

464
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 5: from anything that's going to move the needle. Anything that

465
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 5: they say is irrelevant to the case. So that's what

466
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 5: they're going to do. And it's just it's so common

467
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 5: in cases there's no case a lot that's going to

468
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 5: support preventing saying that.

469
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 4: Right, This is True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we're

470
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 4: talked to krim all the time. Imbody moving on here

471
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 4: with Stephanielei Decker and Courtney Armstrong, and we are so

472
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 4: lucky enough to be joined by Prosecutor Jarrett Farantino, who's

473
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 4: here to answer all of our pesky legal questions that

474
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 4: we constantly have for him. He's probably so tired of us,

475
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 4: but he's so kind to be here. And we're talking

476
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 4: about the Brian Walsh case and he just plaged guilty

477
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 4: to a couple lesser charges. One was the basically the

478
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 4: dismemberment of his wife's body and lying to police, and

479
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 4: we're asking him about the strategy about that. But there's

480
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 4: another like wrinkle in this case, right, and that wrinkle

481
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 4: is Michael Proctor. Can we talk about that, Courtney?

482
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 3: Yes.

483
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 7: So Michael Proctor, his name may ring a bell because

484
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 7: he's the former state police trooper. He's the guy who

485
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 7: led the investigation both into what we're talking about victim

486
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 7: Anna Walsh's murder, but also was the guy who was

487
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 7: fired due to his crazy, misogynistic conduct in the Karen

488
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 7: Reid case, So Karen read as we remember her, and

489
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 7: the first child was a hung jury, and then in

490
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 7: the second one, Karen walked well Proctor, who again is

491
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 7: no longer a state trooper. There are nineteen different cases

492
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 7: that he investigated that have all been granted access to

493
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 7: data from Proctor's electronic devices, and it's so they can

494
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 7: search for evidence of possible biases. Right now, Walsh's lawyers

495
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 7: haven't indicated what material from his device they'll seek, if any,

496
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 7: to introduce, but the defense attorney has listed Proctor as

497
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 7: a potential witness.

498
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 3: So that's what's going on.

499
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:35,199
Speaker 7: So jareded, how significant can having an unreliable investigator?

500
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 3: How can that impact a case? Imagine this was your case, Jared,

501
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 3: would you be panicking.

502
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 5: Right now it's happened. I'd be panicking if, first of all,

503
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 5: I can't believe we're talking about Michael Procter anyway. Yes, obviously,

504
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 5: the credibility of your investigators is key. That's the heart

505
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 5: of your case. If the jury doesn't like or believe

506
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 5: your investigators, you got a mountain to climb. Okay, But

507
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 5: the question becomes now in the Karen Reid case, Michael

508
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 5: Proctor was the major affient, major investigator. What is his

509
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 5: role in the Brian Walston He is a supporting investigator.

510
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 5: So in my opinion, the defense can attack the credibility

511
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 5: and integrity of the investigation by going after Proctor. He's

512
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 5: a distraction. He could put the prosecution on their heels.

513
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 5: But this ain't Karen Reid.

514
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 3: Okay, that's true.

515
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 2: And by the way, he had a personal relationship to

516
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 2: he did you know, the victim, Brian O'Keeffe, and of

517
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 2: course to Karen Reid herself, and was at the house

518
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: where this crime actually occurred outside. So that was a

519
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: unique set of circumstances which made it even more troubling

520
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 2: for Michael Proctor that he wasn't recused from that case

521
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 2: in the first place. I would imagine and Jerret correct

522
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong in other cases that are not

523
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 2: so aligned in his personal life. Certainly, if he's a

524
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 2: support player, there could be an argument that he was

525
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 2: just doing his job and he was off the rails

526
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 2: because of his connection to the Karen Reid case. I

527
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 2: would assume Courtney's giving me sidey. She's saying no, no,

528
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 2: I'm just listening. It's complicated.

529
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 3: I'm listening to you.

530
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 5: I think, well, you're right, Stephanie. Here's the thing. You

531
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 5: in the Karen Reid case, you had to believe Michael

532
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 5: Proctor that there wasn't this setup, there wasn't this deep

533
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 5: blue operation going on to Frank Karen Read here. If

534
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 5: Proctor is a minor player, much of what he's investigated

535
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 5: and meeted out is buttressed by other evidence, digital evidence,

536
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 5: you know, the search is on Walsh's kids, iPad, things

537
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 5: of that nature. Where you're saying, how much of a belief

538
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 5: of faith do you have to take with Michael Proctor

539
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 5: at this point, She's not the key here, and the

540
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 5: defense is only trying to distract you because their guy's guilty, you.

541
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 2: Know, and it was big news, you know, the Karen

542
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 2: Reid case was such a big story and such big news.

543
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 2: Everybody that was associated with it got kicked out of

544
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 2: the club.

545
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 12: So yeah, interesting, it's almost like a the Karen readcase

546
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 12: was so it was so toxic, it was so toxic. Yeah,

547
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 12: it just the hazard ed the hazardous waste from that

548
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 12: you know, toxic case just spilled over to everyone and

549
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 12: that was involved with it, right, Like.

550
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 2: Does it make Brian Walsh a savior and a prince.

551
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 2: You know, based on what we are hearing now. The

552
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 2: idea that this clown could show up and say he

553
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 2: dismembered his wife but has no idea what happened past that,

554
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: and lied about it to law enforcement and now is

555
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 2: changing his tune as his trial is gearing up is

556
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 2: nothing short of sickening.

557
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 3: Totally.

558
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 7: I had one and we only have one brief minute left.

559
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 7: But just back to the fact that he, you know,

560
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,040
Speaker 7: pled guilty to the dismemberment and lying. There was no

561
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 7: plea deal because the prosecutors refuse to negotiate unless he

562
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 7: also pled to murder. Real quick, do you think that

563
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 7: the defense hoped that prosecution would plea.

564
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 5: No, this was a tactic. They knew, they knew he

565
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 5: wasn't They weren't going to grant that plea just to

566
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 5: the minor charges.

567
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 3: Wow.

568
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,479
Speaker 4: Well, Jarrett, thank you so much for joining us. We

569
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 4: love having you with us. You can find more of

570
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 4: Jarrett Instagram at Jarrett Farentino and pre order his upcoming

571
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 4: book on Amazon. It's called Mothers, Murders and Motivation. Mmmmm

572
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 4: for sure.

573
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 2: And man, oh man, oh man, how great is Jarrett

574
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 2: Farantino's the best. We need to walk on music or

575
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 2: some sort of like music cue for him as well.

576
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 4: It needs to be kind of intimidating, because listen, he's

577
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 4: very easy to talk to you, but I'm very intimidated.

578
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 2: Did we need like a gavel, like what is that

579
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 2: sound or something that we need that's like dun dun.

580
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 3: Dumb dabble you want to hear it? Yes? Yes, Oh,

581
00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 3: court is.

582
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 2: Very cool, though it's not Courtney in session or look, Courtney,

583
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 2: you could be in session.

584
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 3: You would be a good judge. Session you would be

585
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 3: a good judge. Both would be good judges.

586
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: By the way, I think, as I'm replaying the last

587
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 2: conversation we just had, I think I just said that

588
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 2: Brian Michael Proctor was at the crime scene when Karen

589
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 2: Reid was accused of hitting her boyfriend with her car,

590
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 2: which she was later found not guilty of. He was

591
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 2: not present there. Brian Higgins was present there. Did I

592
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 2: say that, well, so Brian Proctor. Michael Proctor was not there. Rather,

593
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 2: but he was the lead investigator and they didn't work

594
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 2: together and there was obvious connections, but he was not

595
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 2: present at the Albert's house.

596
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 3: Is that accurate. It's to make sure that is.

597
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 7: And I also had him because otherwise I would have

598
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 7: said something.

599
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 3: I was also thinking of Brian Higgins. That whole party

600
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 3: was a weird Karen read case.

601
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, so much to be unpacked to that it feels

602
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 2: like there's a quiet sifter.

603
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we should talk about that.

604
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 10: Well.

605
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,719
Speaker 2: She also has faced so much financial burden. I mean

606
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 2: imagine being like, you can't work when you've been on

607
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 2: trial twice in a row, back to back.

608
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 3: All the legal fees, there's a civil suit, yeah, I.

609
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 7: Mean she can't go back to being a normal you know,

610
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 7: professor of finance or whatever.

611
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 3: Specifically, she was so.

612
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: Good luck getting that money. We look at it now too.

613
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 2: Not to digress, I know, we have a lot to

614
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 2: get to. But in the OJ Simpson case, for example,

615
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,959
Speaker 2: victim and the Goldman's, you know, the family has you know,

616
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 2: filed their civil suit.

617
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 3: How many years has this been?

618
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 2: And yes, they've been awarded a large lump sum, not

619
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 2: that anything can take their beautiful sun back.

620
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 3: But you know where do you get that from? Right?

621
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 2: It's from the OJ estate, But you know.

622
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 4: Part of it is also the triucational Yeah, yeah, crazy,

623
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 4: so much to kiss you where should.

624
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 11: We go next?

625
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, so.

626
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 7: Listen, it seems like justice is coming fast and furiously,

627
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 7: just as you had suggested, Hopton wish for and manifested

628
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 7: Stephanie Laideker, because President Trump indeed has officially signed the

629
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 7: Epstein Files Bill.

630
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 3: So this orders the.

631
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 7: Department, the Justice Department, to release all the federal records

632
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 7: tied to Jeffrey Ebstein. And this of course comes after

633
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 7: the really massive bipartisan push. It was four hundred twenty

634
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 7: seven to one in the House and also had the

635
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 7: nanimous unanimous approval of the Senate.

636
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 3: So in this moment, the Department of.

637
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 7: Justice has about thirty days to begin releasing the more

638
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 7: than three one hundred gigabytes of evidence and it's grand

639
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 7: jury transcripts, search warrants, photos, videos, thousands of documents from

640
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 7: Epstein's estate, and the survivors are calling this a major

641
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 7: step forward to the unbelievably overdue transparency.

642
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 3: However, just one.

643
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 7: However, questions do remain about how much will be redacted.

644
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 2: So I was reading and again, there's two sides to

645
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 2: this coin, right, So on the one hand, yes, it

646
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 2: has felt really swift. It's been an extraordinary twenty four

647
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 2: hours of unity, transparency, accountability, teamwork as a country, men, women,

648
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 2: both sides of the aisle, all rallying together for a

649
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 2: shared a shared wish for justice. Right, So I think

650
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 2: that's so beautiful and should not get lost period. The

651
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 2: other side to that is, yes, Pambondy, of course we

652
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: know last Saturday opened an investigation to look into several

653
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 2: Democrats Bill Clinton specifically, and as a result that investigation

654
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 2: would be open air quotes, and therefore that could hinder

655
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 2: some of these documents being actually shared or not heavily

656
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 2: redacted and by redacted, that's like everything's blacked out. So

657
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 2: you know this happens a lot. We deal with redacted

658
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 2: information pretty much every day. Certain details that are either

659
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:32,919
Speaker 2: too gruesome or could affect another investigation get redacted by

660
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 2: law enforcement. Very common names ages addresses that kind of thing.

661
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 2: It's privacy, right. So this is a double edged sword here.

662
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 2: So if the pam bondis of it all is saying, oh,

663
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 2: open investigation, I think the fear would be, which is

664
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 2: why I think you guys are hesitant for a good reason,

665
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 2: by the way, and I can't optimist you guys out

666
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 2: of this or the truth of this, which is what

667
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 2: you guys are really holding on to appropriately is that

668
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 2: it's very possible that they could say, yep, I signed it.

669
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 2: Here's the documents, but they've all been redacted because there's

670
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 2: an open investigation and we want to protect the victims,

671
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 2: even though the victims are saying, please, please, please, please

672
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 2: release them.

673
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 3: So it's a little bit of a loophole.

674
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 2: However, I think because we've all been talking about it

675
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 2: so much, us included, and anybody listening, and everybody's participation

676
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 2: I think has been so valuable. We've all been saying

677
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 2: that so much that I think now we're at the

678
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 2: point that if something is redacted out of these you know,

679
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 2: what is it, three hundred gigabytes of information. If anything

680
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 2: is redacted, there must be a subtext as to why.

681
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 2: So it's just if this is a victim's name, and

682
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 2: that particular victim has actually asked for their privacy.

683
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 3: Who cares.

684
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 2: Of course, we don't need to be outing any of

685
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 2: the victims who have been through enough. But if it

686
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:05,240
Speaker 2: is also names that are associated with this case, I'm sorry,

687
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 2: too bad. That's a part of the puzzle here. You know,

688
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 2: it was pretty astonishing. Harvard, the man who was associated

689
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 2: with the case. I won't even use his name who

690
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,760
Speaker 2: is at Harvard. He started his class today by basically

691
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 2: acknowledging he's in the Epstein files. And there is something

692
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 2: to be said for coming clean and clear and even

693
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 2: it's like we talk about Marjorie Taylor, for example, whether

694
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 2: you love her or hate her. The idea that someone

695
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 2: can say, hey, I know better now, or my feelings

696
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 2: on something have changed, or I've grown learned changed, that

697
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 2: carries a lot of weight, I think because it's authentic.

698
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 2: I do too, And we should allow grace for people

699
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 2: to grow and change and have it be in a

700
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 2: different place today than maybe they were then. And I

701
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 2: think that's the hesitation, right. So, yeah, some people are

702
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 2: going to get washed in it. That is sort of

703
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 2: where we are. The Epstoin files have been held so

704
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 2: close to the vest and it's in such a hidden

705
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 2: secret that, yeah, there might be some there might be

706
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: some people that get it's death by association.

707
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 3: In some ways.

708
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 2: But I think we really need to be mindful of

709
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,399
Speaker 2: where is the money. It's the banking records, who are

710
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 2: making the transfers, where are they coming from, and who

711
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 2: are they two and why NDA's things like that, Why

712
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 2: is there so much hush money? What was the initial

713
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 2: reason to actually give the hush money in the first place.

714
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 2: I think that's all pieces of this puzzle that I

715
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 2: think is bigger than just a list.

716
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, the money is going to be the key, right,

717
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 3: who's's the only key? Yeah? I agree?

718
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 4: Well, obviously want the names r the powerful men and

719
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 4: maybe women that were participating in the.

720
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 6: Disgusting as.

721
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, obviously, But I also want to know where

722
00:39:58,480 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 4: the money is coming from.

723
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,879
Speaker 2: Who do you think Gilaine Maxwell is thinking right now?

724
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: Like what is going on in her head in her

725
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 2: cushy little side show.

726
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 4: I think she's worried, Actually, I think she well, I

727
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 4: I think she might be worried that. You know, she's

728
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 4: not going to really have those secrets anymore, right, She's not.

729
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 4: She's not going to hold the chance to the castle.

730
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, that's a really good point. I hadn't

731
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 2: occurred to me, right, Visibility Vera would be gone, It's gone,

732
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 2: bargaining chips right.

733
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 11: Back to the regular prison, no more.

734
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 3: It'll be no more.

735
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 4: Does she get transferred back to a regular person. I

736
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 4: doubt it because that would just be so obvious at

737
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 4: that point, Like if she gets transferred, it's just like

738
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 4: a big red flag. But here we are, you know,

739
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 4: we're in the in the the year of red flags.

740
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 3: So who knows? Twenty twenty five has been wild. I'm

741
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 3: my wild.

742
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 2: It's been a wild run. Yeah, it has been wild.

743
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 6: But I thought twenty twenty was the you know, the

744
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:56,399
Speaker 6: wild one.

745
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 3: Man.

746
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 6: This is not wrong.

747
00:40:59,360 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 5: I don't know.

748
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 4: I just the timing of everything is just so suss

749
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 4: to me. So I'm gonna I'm gonna. I'm gonna try

750
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 4: to be optimistic and say we're going to see the files.

751
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 4: But I still, deep out of my heart think that

752
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 4: this the timing has suspect me of opening this investigation. Listen,

753
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 4: I want this investigation to happen into bulp Clinton. I

754
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 4: think it needs to happen for one hundred percent, Like,

755
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 4: I'm on board with it. The timing is very suss.

756
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 3: I thought it was a hoax. No, I mean, but

757
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:26,280
Speaker 3: here's what I'm saying.

758
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 2: I don't doubt you are one hundred percent right, Like

759
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,359
Speaker 2: opening that investigation on a Saturday when you've already said

760
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 2: there was no investigation needed because there was nothing there,

761
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,760
Speaker 2: because it was a hoax and the investigation was complete.

762
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 2: It's pretty extraordinary. Of course, that was a loophole effort. However,

763
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 2: I think everyone's so hyper aware of that tactic that

764
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,919
Speaker 2: now I think there will be even more accountability, even

765
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 2: if that's the company line, if you will. So if

766
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 2: the DOJ or the White House or Pambondi is saying like, oh,

767
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 2: I wish I could, but we can't, I think everyone's

768
00:41:59,000 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 2: going to.

769
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 3: Lose their minds because I think the gig is up.

770
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 2: So yes, I think everybody's right, Yes, that was suspect. Yes,

771
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 2: no one's opening an investigation into somebody that's air quotes Democrats.

772
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 2: This is not a Democrat versus Republican thing. But by

773
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 2: the way, let it rip to all parties down. But yeah,

774
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 2: that is like here, we're setting the stage for a

775
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,760
Speaker 2: loophole or a technicality, and I don't think anyone's feeling

776
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 2: that anymore. I think the tides have changed. Yeah, that

777
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 2: we won't accept that.

778
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 4: Well, Thomas Massey, he's the Republican out of Kentucky.

779
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 6: That's kind of, you know, at the.

780
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 4: Forefront of all this, one of the forefronts of this, right.

781
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 4: He calls it the smoke show. He's with the smoke screen.

782
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 4: He calls this investigation, and you know he because he

783
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 4: called it out. He's like, this is a loophole to

784
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 4: try to prevent these files from being released. And in

785
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 4: the bill that was just passed yesterday, it gives the

786
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 4: authority to Pam Bondi to redact anything that is in

787
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,879
Speaker 4: an open investigation. So for me, that's like in black

788
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 4: and white, there's no gray area if there's no if

789
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 4: there's an investigation into quote unquote Democrat ties to Bill

790
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,320
Speaker 4: cl Or, I'm sorry to Epstein, it's gonna halt release.

791
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 6: That's how I read it. But I'm very black and

792
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 6: white so or.

793
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 2: But to that end, is it possible that anything that's

794
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 2: redacted has to have a little subtext and an explanation

795
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 2: to someone to approve that redaction? Like who is the

796
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 2: final say on what is redacted? To whom is there?

797
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 2: Like literally one is it Pam Bondi herself, that's like

798
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,439
Speaker 2: I approve that redaction. I think at this point we're

799
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 2: so like side eyed and have we are? You know,

800
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 2: everybody's sort of like really with the redactions that I

801
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 2: don't know that they'll get away with it as much

802
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 2: as perhaps they had. But remember they did the release

803
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 2: of the last they were like, we released a whole

804
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 2: bunch of files, and it's like it's the exact same files.

805
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 3: That were released prior. How dumb do you think we are? Like,

806
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:54,800
Speaker 3: We're not that dumb.

807
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 2: So but you know, again, I'm curious, but it does

808
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 2: seem like it's at least moving into pace that was

809
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 2: pretty unexpected this time last week.

810
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 7: Well, it came to such a point of inevitability. I

811
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 7: think it just came to a point of inevitability that

812
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 7: the public swayed the congressman congress people, pardon me very much.

813
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 3: Do you think because I don't think they did. I don't.

814
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 3: I don't.

815
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 4: I don't think the Republican side of Congress was not

816
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,879
Speaker 4: moving until Trump said go ahead, vote yes.

817
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 7: No, That's why he said it, because it was an inevitability.

818
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 7: People Republicans had gone to him this is this is

819
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 7: fact and said, because they're constituents. It's people who keep

820
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 7: them in office, so it's preservation. I'm not saying that

821
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 7: every person involved had some you know, change of heart.

822
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 3: That's that's promising. So it was no.

823
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 2: I think the reason why there was a call by

824
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 2: the President himself, who had long said do not release

825
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 2: the files, there's nothing to see. I think there was

826
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 2: a change of heart because of the optics of him

827
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 2: getting a sense that everybody was about to vote in

828
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 2: favor of the release.

829
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 6: So getting ahead of it, getting ahead of it, saying

830
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 6: I told him it was okay.

831
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 2: Well, no one's disobeying me because I already gave them

832
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 2: a free pass after there was no free pass.

833
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,720
Speaker 6: After they already decided they were doing it anyway.

834
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 2: And by the way, if Bill Clinton's at the heart

835
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 2: of it, go ahead, yeah, yeah, this is you know,

836
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 2: this is.

837
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 4: I don't have any Bill Clinton hats or car wraps

838
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 4: or T shirts that I'm going to be burning anytime soon,

839
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 4: so please go ahead. Mhmm, you know what I mean, Like,

840
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 4: it's not my entire personality.

841
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 3: Look at.

842
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 2: So predictions, do we think by this time next week

843
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 2: there will be some new developments?

844
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 3: What's everybody's prediction?

845
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 8: Maybe because the holidays coming up? Would that be strategic

846
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 8: to try to do something around that time?

847
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 2: So it would seem that everyone's very busy, So is

848
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 2: it a good time? Just because we've learned, even just

849
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,800
Speaker 2: making this show, that on Fridays oftentimes things get released

850
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 2: to the press. Knowing that it's a weekend and people

851
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 2: aren't paying as close attention. I don't know if that's

852
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 2: totally accurate, but if that's the case what it was,

853
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 2: wouldn't this time next week be the perfect time?

854
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:25,959
Speaker 7: Yeah, everyone on the West Wing and also through that

855
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 7: is how Jennifer Aniston and Brad Pitt broke up.

856
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 3: It was on a Friday. I remember it.

857
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 2: Really in Mexico when they were doing the walk on

858
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 2: the beach. It was a Friday, tu loom. Oh no, yes,

859
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 2: where were you when?

860
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 7: Well, if you remember where you were, give us a

861
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 7: call a A three one crime. But coming up the

862
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 7: top of the hour, we later later we are going

863
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 7: to talk about true crime and chill and we're diving

864
00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 7: into Eileen Queen of the serial Killers, and then also

865
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,879
Speaker 7: we're going to be going into the case of Rebecca Park.

866
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 7: She's a pregnant woman who has disappeared seemingly True Crime Tonight.

867
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

868
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

869
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,439
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and Body. Move in and listen. If you've

870
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,280
Speaker 2: missed any of the first hour of the show. Big

871
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 2: thanks to Jared Farantino for being with us. You could

872
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 2: always catch it right after as a podcast because we

873
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 2: have so many cases to get through. We also would

874
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 2: love to hear from you, so if you want to

875
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 2: jump in Live eight eight eight three one crime, or

876
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 2: hit us up on our socials at True Crime Tonight's

877
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: show on Instagram in TikTok or at True Crime Tonight

878
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 2: on Facebook, or you could always leave us a talk back.

879
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 2: Which you're doing so well and we're very, very proud

880
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 2: of you, so thank you. Sam and Adam are waiting

881
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,879
Speaker 2: in the con room to hear from you, so don't

882
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 2: disappoint them, buddy. This big case that you have been

883
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 2: telling us about all day.

884
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:12,280
Speaker 3: Is now mind bending, so yeah, so share.

885
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 4: So this is the case of this is a new

886
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 4: one that we're probably going to start following. This was

887
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 4: the case of the twenty two year old missing pregnant woman,

888
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 4: Rebecca k Park, who is thirty nine weeks pregnant and

889
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,839
Speaker 4: has been missing since November third of twenty twenty five.

890
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 4: In fact, her due date was yesterday and she is

891
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 4: still missing. So she reportedly disappeared after entering a dark

892
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,839
Speaker 4: vehicle at her mother's home. Her biological mother's home in

893
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,399
Speaker 4: northern Michigan, kind of just north of Lake Cadillac, if

894
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 4: you're familiar with the area she got into the dark

895
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 4: car authorities are continuing searches with no new leads or

896
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 4: evidence of foul play, although there are a lot of

897
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 4: red flags being raised due to the amount of registered

898
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 4: sex offenders in like per circle and criminal history basically

899
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 4: of a lot of the people that she, you know,

900
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 4: is has in her family and whatnot. It's really really sad,

901
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 4: and we're just going to stick to the facts right now.

902
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 3: This case is.

903
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 4: Right now currently blowing up on social media, Like my

904
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 4: friends will not stop talking about it, and they're like,

905
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 4: you body, you gotta watch that. I'm like, I have

906
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:26,919
Speaker 4: no time because i'm you know, I'm working. I'm working,

907
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 4: I'm working, and I have time to sit and watch

908
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 4: a four hour video about you know, this case right now?

909
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 3: Can you just tell me a lot of shady players.

910
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 6: There's a lot of shady players.

911
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they all in this circle.

912
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 4: And all these shady players are going live with these

913
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 4: other creators and telling these stories and it's it's insane.

914
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 4: So let me just stick to the facts for now.

915
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 4: Let's just lay the table set the table for everybody.

916
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 4: And you know, as Courtney so eloquently says, November three,

917
00:49:55,600 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 4: twenty twenty five, between eight thirty and eleven, Rebecca again,

918
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 4: she's thet pregnant woman. She's twenty two years old and

919
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 4: thirty nine weeks pregnant. She was last seen leaving her

920
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 4: biological mother, Courtney's home in Boone Township, Michigan, and basically

921
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 4: her she was telling her mom, don't worry, I've got

922
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 4: a ride, but didn't say who it was, didn't, you know,

923
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 4: give any information about who she was getting in the

924
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 4: car with nothing and took off. Shortly after, her cell

925
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 4: phone was found nearby on a two track road, which

926
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 4: was unusual because she reportedly never leaves home without it.

927
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:38,799
Speaker 4: They found her phone like right after so the day,

928
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,320
Speaker 4: November fourth. The next day, the Wexford County Sheriff's Office

929
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 4: issued a bulletin about her disappearance and began coordinating searches

930
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 4: with Michigan State Police and other agencies. And in the

931
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 4: following days there's been extensive ground and air searches they'd

932
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 4: been conducted. No additional evidence of Rebecca's location or a

933
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 4: foul play has been discovered, and you know, there's been

934
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:04,879
Speaker 4: drones and they've had you know, a TVs out there.

935
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 4: This is like a I don't know if you guys

936
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 4: ever been to northern Michigan.

937
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:16,320
Speaker 3: Familiar? So yes, it is next level so beautiful. You

938
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 3: want to move tomorrow?

939
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I, you know, grew up in Detroit and

940
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 4: we would go up north. That's what you call it

941
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 4: every year, like every it's a and everyone I think

942
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 4: who lives in southern Michigan does that.

943
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. And it's like a different world up there. Like camping, yes,

944
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 3: a huge.

945
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 4: Pine tree like nature, a lot of hunting, a lot

946
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:42,879
Speaker 4: of deer hunting and fishing, and you know outdoors time water,

947
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 4: a lot of water.

948
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 6: Oh my god.

949
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:50,800
Speaker 4: Oh so this is just right near Lake Cadillac Cadillac.

950
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 4: Isn't that great for Michigan Cadillac Motor City anyway, So

951
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 4: I'm getting sidetracked. Anyway, this is a beautiful area, but

952
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 4: it's very very and so when there's drones, the canopy

953
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 4: right can't it makes it makes it really hard. But

954
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,399
Speaker 4: there are drones out there and things like that. So

955
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:12,839
Speaker 4: you know, ongoing though authorities are. They've issued a ten

956
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 4: thousand dollars reward for information leading to her safe return

957
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 4: and warned against misinformation spreading online. I mean, listen, this

958
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 4: is spreading so fast and so quick on social media

959
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 4: that the police department is getting overwhelmed with calls asking

960
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:33,280
Speaker 4: questions about this case because the character surrounding poor Rebecca.

961
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 4: I mean, just she she literally had no chance in

962
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 4: life and just for real, like no chance.

963
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 6: It's horrible. It's hor I hope she's okay.

964
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 4: There has been no evidence of assault or bloody clothing

965
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 4: or file play reported at the time. There's a big

966
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 4: rumor that there was a big car fire, and you know,

967
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 4: they found all these bloody clothes and whatnot.

968
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 6: You guys know how social media is, right.

969
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,319
Speaker 4: The Sheriff's department has had to take time out of

970
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,240
Speaker 4: this investigation and issue statements warning people to be careful

971
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:06,320
Speaker 4: about the social media stuff. Rebecca did have two thousand

972
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 4: dollars in cash, and no financial activity has been detected

973
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 4: since her disappearance.

974
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 3: Do we know how it's known how much cash she

975
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 3: had on her person?

976
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I don't have the exact details, but it's

977
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 4: something like she borrowed the money from her grandma or something, right,

978
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 4: which makes me okay, So she Rebecca the missing woman

979
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 4: in this case, she has two other kids.

980
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 3: Okay, and she's twenty two.

981
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 4: She has two other kids with the baby on the way,

982
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 4: and her two other kids she had to give to

983
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 4: the state.

984
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 2: So by the way, we mentioned yeah, sorry, we were

985
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 2: simply shady, Like it's such like who are these characters?

986
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 3: There's they're registered sex offenders.

987
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 2: There's several registered sex offenders in her immediate circle.

988
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 3: So when we say shady, literally they're registered like her fianders.

989
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 2: It's not just a disparaging remark, right your friends and.

990
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 6: Family, No, of course, not nor her fiance.

991
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 4: The baby's father that she's pregnant with is a registered

992
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 4: sex offender of little girls between the ages of thirteen

993
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 4: and fifteen, and it goes back decades and he's had

994
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 4: several several charges. I mean, this isn't just like, you know,

995
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 4: he stole a candy bar at the grocery store, you

996
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 4: know what I mean. Like we're talking shady, I mean shady.

997
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:21,879
Speaker 4: We're not trying to like, you know, talk smack about

998
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 4: these people. But anyway, you know, she had to give

999
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 4: her kids to the state, her other two kids, and

1000
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 4: so there's a lot of online speculation that maybe she

1001
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 4: borrowed this money to kind of maybe escape and get

1002
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 4: away because she knows that she's going to have to

1003
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 4: give her baby up to the state as well. Okay,

1004
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 4: there's there's a speculation of that. There's a lot of

1005
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 4: things surrounding mom. You know that is we'll talk about

1006
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 4: it later. But yeah, there's a lot of a lot

1007
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 4: of a lot of things. And it's but again, it's

1008
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:56,800
Speaker 4: all social media stuff coming directly from their own mouse.

1009
00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 4: By the way, not this isn't made up, it's coming

1010
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 4: from the family mouth. But there's just been live after

1011
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 4: lilent or Lie told it's not looking like it's going

1012
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 4: to be good. But the sheriff does warn not to

1013
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 4: believe everything you see on social media.

1014
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 6: So hopefully the sheriff is right in this.

1015
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 3: Case, good life lesson as well.

1016
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 7: Right, do we one other just factual curiosity? Do we

1017
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 7: know was it Rebecca Park the missing woman's mother who

1018
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,399
Speaker 7: reported her missing? Like, how do we know who called

1019
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 7: it in that?

1020
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think it was her.

1021
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 4: I think she said she went missing at eight thirty,

1022
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 4: when she left and got the car, and when she

1023
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,800
Speaker 4: didn't hear from her by eleven thirty, they alerted the

1024
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 4: authorities copy.

1025
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so okay, yeah, I do.

1026
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 4: Believe that to be correct, and somebody can call in

1027
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 4: eight A eight thirty one crime if you know me

1028
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:46,959
Speaker 4: to be incorrect. This is there's a lot of moving

1029
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,839
Speaker 4: pieces and it's happening very quickly, so I might have that.

1030
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 6: I might have that incorrect, but I do believe that's correct.

1031
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 4: Anyone with information about Rebecca or her whereabouts is asked

1032
00:55:55,360 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 4: to call Wexford Central Dispatch at two three one seven

1033
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 4: seventy nine nine two one one and request to speak

1034
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 4: to a Wexford County Deputy.

1035
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 11: Perfect.

1036
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 8: Yeah, do you want to give a was there a

1037
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:14,280
Speaker 8: little description of how she looks or any details.

1038
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,920
Speaker 3: About listen, I would just google her.

1039
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:22,359
Speaker 4: Her name is Rebecca Rebecca K Park okay, and that's

1040
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 4: ka y p A r k Okay. She's a petite

1041
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 4: little thing and she's but she's very, very very pregnant.

1042
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,320
Speaker 4: She has a tattoo that says Queen above her eye

1043
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 4: or her eyebrow.

1044
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 3: She's got like long dark hair, and she's about five

1045
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 3: foot two.

1046
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 7: She I mean she's pregnant, but weighs about one hundred

1047
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 7: and forty pounds when she was last seen, she was

1048
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 7: wearing a black coat. She was wearing light blue jeans,

1049
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 7: great shoes, and carrying a black bag.

1050
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 4: See, and this is this is the things information, This

1051
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 4: is the thing. That's what that's what mom says now.

1052
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 4: But previously she said she was wearing all black.

1053
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 11: Oh, so Mom's stories changed to.

1054
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:06,760
Speaker 3: How is that? It's crazy?

1055
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 4: It's it's so much so that her best friend, her

1056
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 4: best friend's name is, uh, what's your best friend's name?

1057
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:13,439
Speaker 3: Page?

1058
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 4: Page posted on her Facebook today. Okay, Courtney, that's mom.

1059
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 4: I can't believe. You don't even know her daughter. She

1060
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 4: would never wear all black. And then now Courtney come

1061
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 4: outs and say, oh, she's wearing blue jeans. They were blue,

1062
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 4: Like it's it's crazy you guys like, wow, there's a

1063
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 4: lot there.

1064
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 8: Okay, all right, well well we'll hold off on any

1065
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 8: of the details with that, but thank you.

1066
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 11: That's a good one to continue following.

1067
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, so we're going to continue to follow it, hopefully

1068
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 4: not for long. Hopefully they find her well and well

1069
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 4: taken care of and the baby's okay, it's good.

1070
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 6: But that's where we are right now.

1071
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 3: We're going to continue to follow it, though tragic, horrible tail.

1072
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 2: I mean, that's such an incredibly beautiful time when you're

1073
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 2: about to give birth, and it's also very dangerous to

1074
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 2: be away from actual medical care, at least not you know.

1075
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 3: It's worth mentioning too.

1076
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 4: She was nesting, she was taught a couple of her

1077
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 4: texts have been released, and she was talking about getting

1078
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 4: the baby room ready.

1079
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 11: Wow.

1080
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 4: So I don't know, a lot of people are saying, oh,

1081
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 4: maybe she took off because of the two thousand dollars.

1082
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 3: I don't think she.

1083
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 7: Took off, no, right, not if she was preparing, or

1084
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 7: maybe it was not if she left of her own

1085
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 7: volition perhaps.

1086
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 11: And it's freezing cold, I'm sure in that region.

1087
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 4: Oh it's oh my god, it's unbearably cold. You're so

1088
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 4: cold up there.

1089
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1090
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 7: Oh man, Well, as details come out and we will

1091
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 7: try and keep it factual.

1092
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 3: Sorry about the what we because.

1093
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 2: That's an important thing, by the way, just to that point.

1094
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,439
Speaker 2: You know, it's like if you had, if you were called,

1095
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 2: if any of us listening right now were called to say,

1096
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 2: what was everybody in your life wearing. I like to

1097
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 2: think I would have a good memory for this and

1098
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 2: could clock it, because only because I work in this

1099
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 2: job that I'm really hyper aware of my surroundings. But

1100
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 2: it is something to just think about. You know, who's

1101
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 2: wearing what when, what's your surroundings?

1102
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 3: Let me tell your child wearing what you did, got.

1103
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 4: Into a car that you didn't know whose car it was,

1104
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 4: you would probably take a quick snapshot that.

1105
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good I don't know. I argue that.

1106
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 7: I mean, people like eyewitnesses can be so unreliable. And

1107
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 7: if it's and I'm me and it's night time.

1108
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 2: And I blind, Yeah, we don't have hear.

1109
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 8: Glasses on, probably multitasking, doing a few other things, washing dishes.

1110
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 2: Through a foggy window because of the same from the cooker.

1111
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's I don't think there's a lot of

1112
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 4: cooking going on.

1113
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:51,920
Speaker 7: But all right, well listen, we'll we'll keep you updated

1114
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 7: for sure. This is true crime tonight. And we've been

1115
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 7: talking about twenty two year old Rebecca k. Park again.

1116
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 7: If you have any information call two three one seven

1117
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 7: seventy nine nine two one one. And do you guys

1118
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 7: want to talk about the Florida cheerleader Anna Okner.

1119
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:16,840
Speaker 6: I'm dying to talk about the clea don't walk.

1120
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:21,760
Speaker 2: I I have been like yelling at all that yesh yeah,

1121
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 2: So it's a rough one.

1122
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 3: It's a rough one. It is.

1123
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 7: It is so Anna Keepner again. She's eighteen years old,

1124
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 7: Florida cheerleader, and she was found dead on November seventh,

1125
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 7: And this was on a carnival cruise ship. So her

1126
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 7: remains reportedly were discovered hidden under a bed, and the victim,

1127
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 7: Anna Kepner's stepmother, has requested a delay in custody due

1128
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 7: to the ongoing FBI investigation into Anna's death. It may

1129
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 7: potentially involve one of Anna's step siblings as a suspect.

1130
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 2: So, ye's unpack this, Ye, we just like do a

1131
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 2: little deeper dive. So everyone goes in a family vacation.

1132
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 2: Family seems cool, right, Everyone's like, this is a carnival

1133
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 2: cruise for goodness sake, You're going there to be together

1134
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 2: and to celebrate and to soak up the sun.

1135
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 3: Now someone goes.

1136
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 2: She's literally shoved under a bed, covered in life preservers

1137
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 2: and left to obviously she was going to be found.

1138
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 3: So this is the worst cover up possibly ever.

1139
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 2: Right, and now the finger is being pointed at a

1140
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 2: step sibling, that's right.

1141
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 7: And she I mean it's really it's it's wild. If

1142
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 7: what's being reported is true, and there's no reason to

1143
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 7: believe it's not. But she Anna was on this cruise

1144
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 7: with her father, her stepmother and the step siblings, you know.

1145
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 7: And as you said, it sounds so ridiculous to put

1146
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 7: a deceased body and think that covering with a blanket

1147
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 7: and a life jacket will do the job of concealment. However,

1148
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 7: when you realize that one of the people of interest

1149
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 7: is a sixteen year old step sibling, if indeed please

1150
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:18,880
Speaker 7: involved case.

1151
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 3: This cannot be the case.

1152
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 2: And listen, we were pretty assured when we spoke about this,

1153
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 2: you know, a few days ago when this was all happening,

1154
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 2: that dad and stepmom they were all being really receptive

1155
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 2: to authorities, and the Miami Dade Police was involved, and

1156
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:39,520
Speaker 2: there was an autopsy being done, which was pretty comforting

1157
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 2: that the family was participating. It seemed like it was

1158
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 2: possibly an outsider. It's an insider, potentially.

1159
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 7: Potentially, and this is another case. We will keep you up.

1160
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 7: But listen, stick around. We've got true crime and chill Eileen,

1161
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 7: Queen of the Serial Killers, and we'll be hearing from

1162
01:02:57,040 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 7: you that much more true crime tonight.

1163
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 3: We're talking true crime all the time.

1164
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 2: Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1165
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:17,760
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

1166
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and body move in.

1167
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 3: My voice was cracked a little bit.

1168
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 2: Was that excitement?

1169
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 3: So I was going to say, you're excited? Am I

1170
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 3: just maybe that's like my yeah, maybe it's mormones.

1171
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:33,760
Speaker 2: I don't know. That was totally strange. Hey, listen, talkbacks

1172
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 2: were coming for you, so keep them coming. Number one

1173
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 2: if you want to join us live eight eight eight

1174
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 2: three one crime.

1175
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 3: Let's go to a talkback now.

1176
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:47,080
Speaker 9: After seeing her interviews, do you view Eileen Moore.

1177
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 11: As a predator or a product of the extreme abuse

1178
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:52,080
Speaker 11: or a combination of both?

1179
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:55,919
Speaker 3: Right? Was she born a monster or was she made one?

1180
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 2: So tough Tahan, I think this.

1181
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 3: Was a hard watch.

1182
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:04,280
Speaker 8: It was, yeah, I mean, I mean important, but it

1183
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 8: was really important. I mean, of course, because the subject

1184
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 8: matter is so heavy and it's so hard and what

1185
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:12,440
Speaker 8: she went through in the abuse. I think I was

1186
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:16,200
Speaker 8: sort of analyzing a little bit also of the documentary itself.

1187
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 8: It was I know, it was trying to get to

1188
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 8: the emotional side of things, but I wanted to see

1189
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 8: a little bit more understand more about the specifics of

1190
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:25,440
Speaker 8: some of the crimes and the way that.

1191
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 11: Some of the other documentaries are laid out. So maybe

1192
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:30,000
Speaker 11: that's comment on that. So I love it please.

1193
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:32,960
Speaker 4: I think that they couldn't because if you if you notice,

1194
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 4: it was all archival footage. The entire documentary is all

1195
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,800
Speaker 4: archival footage, so they could only really like talk about

1196
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:42,440
Speaker 4: things that they could show you interesting.

1197
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and by the way, if you don't know what

1198
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 2: archival means, it's like a little insider chatter about what

1199
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 2: documentaries are often made of. Archival refers to, you know,

1200
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:57,920
Speaker 2: footage of yesteryear. So whether it's home video, news clips,

1201
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 2: news footage, things that were gathered back in the day

1202
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:06,040
Speaker 2: that are authentic, they're not recreated. It's not like you know,

1203
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 2: sometimes when you watch a documentary you'll see a hand

1204
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 2: on a knob turning. That's something that was shot today,

1205
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 2: but the hand on the knob is referencing an earlier day.

1206
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 2: And then this documentary, it was a lot of found

1207
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 2: footage and a lot of archive was from yester year.

1208
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:30,440
Speaker 7: This documentary is of course Eileen Queen of the Serial.

1209
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 3: Killers is what true crime and chill also yes.

1210
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 11: And that's on Netflix if you haven't seen it.

1211
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 13: But so to answer our talk back, I think, in

1212
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 13: in Eileen's case, I think monsters are something you become.

1213
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 6: I don't think she was.

1214
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 3: I think she was. I don't think I don't. I

1215
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:55,959
Speaker 3: don't think she was.

1216
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 4: Born with this urge to kill or her killing was

1217
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:02,479
Speaker 4: more or you know, like an urgency kind of kill.

1218
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:05,480
Speaker 4: Like she says that she was doing these killings and

1219
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 4: self defense, but it was often provoked by a need

1220
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:12,120
Speaker 4: for money. You know, they were they were constantly getting

1221
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:14,400
Speaker 4: kicked out of hotel rooms and whatnot. I think they

1222
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 4: call it existence urgency or something.

1223
01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:17,840
Speaker 3: I'll have to look it up.

1224
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:21,320
Speaker 6: But she's not like a typical serial killer.

1225
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 4: There wasn't like these cooling off periods and whatnot, like

1226
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:27,000
Speaker 4: that she was killing out of the need for There

1227
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:31,480
Speaker 4: was a sense of urgency, right, not this sense of

1228
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 4: I need to kill.

1229
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 2: Do you think anybody has a born with need to kill? I? Yes,

1230
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 2: I do, Really I do. Oh my goodness, I so disagree.

1231
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:44,360
Speaker 2: Do you really we actually disagree on something? Okay, okay,

1232
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:48,440
Speaker 2: And maybe this is a wishful thought, but after every

1233
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:50,840
Speaker 2: interview I've done, and I feel like I've done thousands.

1234
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 5: I don't know.

1235
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:53,240
Speaker 3: I can't count that way.

1236
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 2: And by the way, not only in true crime and

1237
01:06:56,080 --> 01:06:59,360
Speaker 2: just life like reality shows. Maybe it was a love

1238
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:01,600
Speaker 2: show or something completely different. But I feel like I've

1239
01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:04,240
Speaker 2: been in a lot of homes and in a lot

1240
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 2: of lives, specifically in the crime one. I believe in

1241
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:10,840
Speaker 2: my heart of parts, and I mean this at the core,

1242
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 2: that you are born perfect and that life might just

1243
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 2: take a tumble on you. Now, sometimes you're born with

1244
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 2: a thing that's maybe you know, something that's maybe a

1245
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:28,560
Speaker 2: something that if you're not born into the perfect family

1246
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 2: that has the resources to you know, help the thing

1247
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:35,080
Speaker 2: you know. I don't even want to name it. But

1248
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:37,840
Speaker 2: like if there's a disorder, or you know, if there's

1249
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:41,120
Speaker 2: some sort of a mental illness or something that could

1250
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:43,360
Speaker 2: have the proper care early.

1251
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:44,760
Speaker 3: On, that's not always given.

1252
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 2: So you might have mental illness of some sort that

1253
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:50,840
Speaker 2: maybe goes unchecked for a long period of time and

1254
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:54,919
Speaker 2: therefore is exacerbated. But I don't know that anybody's ever

1255
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 2: born evil. This is not a religious thought, by the way,

1256
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:02,080
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, based on my experience at work, I

1257
01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 2: think that everybody. I think monsters are made Okay, what

1258
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 2: do you think?

1259
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 3: Tell me why?

1260
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:10,200
Speaker 6: Well, I think, I mean, I don't know why, I

1261
01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 6: just do, but I do. I mean, I'm not.

1262
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:14,920
Speaker 2: A bad egg like sometimes people hear I do you

1263
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 2: think people talk about they get a lemon of a car, right,

1264
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:19,040
Speaker 2: like it's just like a clunker.

1265
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:24,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean because also and I hear your point, Stephanie,

1266
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:27,040
Speaker 7: but also and I can't think of a good example

1267
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 7: the top of my head think of cases we've covered

1268
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:35,639
Speaker 7: where like what's the what is the ration now where

1269
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 7: they were raised in what what you would call a

1270
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:41,640
Speaker 7: loving environment?

1271
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:46,519
Speaker 2: Well, nobody or by the way, I just think environment. Right,

1272
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:49,679
Speaker 2: So you could have a perfect human that was born perfect.

1273
01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 2: And again this is not a religious thought, despite my

1274
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 2: religious thoughts, and no, certainly I'm religious now, but like

1275
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:59,719
Speaker 2: we're taking that aside. Truly, just like the bare bones

1276
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:03,920
Speaker 2: for crime, a perfect human is born in a less

1277
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:07,120
Speaker 2: than perfect environment. And you know, we've worked on so

1278
01:09:07,160 --> 01:09:10,080
Speaker 2: many of these cases. And yeah, you add, you know,

1279
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 2: an abusive household, and you add a lack of and

1280
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 2: you add, you know, some people are less affected maybe

1281
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 2: or have the wherewithal to survive countless amounts of abuse

1282
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:25,679
Speaker 2: and sexual abuse. For mom, and I mean some people

1283
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:29,880
Speaker 2: can stand that storm early on and some people can't.

1284
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 2: And then there's no care, and then it gets pushed

1285
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:35,960
Speaker 2: under the rug, and then it grows and nobody talks

1286
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 2: about it, and then it grows a little further, and

1287
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:39,599
Speaker 2: then we talk about it, and then it just gets

1288
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 2: real weird and everyone's like, oh, they're a monster, and

1289
01:09:42,479 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 2: it's like, well, yes, they are behaving as a monster,

1290
01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:51,679
Speaker 2: and there's no question about that. Well, alien's a hard one.

1291
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:54,040
Speaker 3: It's a perfect example of hard. It's a hard one.

1292
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:55,080
Speaker 3: She's act.

1293
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:59,200
Speaker 4: She was born into chaos, into the worst scenario, so

1294
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 4: she was did even have a fighting chance, right.

1295
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:03,240
Speaker 6: She was born in nineteen fifty six.

1296
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:08,120
Speaker 4: She was a leapier baby, born into a total dysfunction

1297
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 4: so deep that by the time she walk the damage

1298
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:14,840
Speaker 4: had a really already begun. Her dad, Leo Pittman, he

1299
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 4: was a diagnosed schizophrenic and a convicted sex offender.

1300
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, perfect storm.

1301
01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:21,479
Speaker 11: Right.

1302
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:23,880
Speaker 4: He never held his daughter, he never saw her face.

1303
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 4: He was in prisoned when she was born, and he

1304
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:30,320
Speaker 4: died by suicide behind bars when she was thirteen. Her mom,

1305
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:33,479
Speaker 4: her name was Diane, and she was a teenager trying

1306
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 4: to survive her own trauma, you know what I mean.

1307
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:36,400
Speaker 3: She was literally a teenager.

1308
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:37,639
Speaker 6: She was literally a teenager.

1309
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:39,719
Speaker 4: She had two kids by the time she was eighteen,

1310
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:41,560
Speaker 4: she was overwhelmed.

1311
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 3: She had no support.

1312
01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:46,000
Speaker 4: She literally just vanished out of the kid's life and

1313
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:48,960
Speaker 4: left her and her brother Keith in the care of

1314
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:54,320
Speaker 4: their grandparents. And the grandparents were also violent and alcoholics.

1315
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:58,320
Speaker 4: And you know, they were all sexually abusive.

1316
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 2: Now they were sexually abuse seeing her the entire time,

1317
01:11:01,479 --> 01:11:03,920
Speaker 2: So like, where does she go to see a world

1318
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:05,479
Speaker 2: that is not hideous?

1319
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 13: Right?

1320
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:08,720
Speaker 2: You know, when you see the world as hideous, you

1321
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 2: behave hideous.

1322
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:11,479
Speaker 3: Right to one percent.

1323
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:14,360
Speaker 4: And by age eleven, she's eleven years old, and she

1324
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:17,679
Speaker 4: had already learned like the simple rule that would guide

1325
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:21,120
Speaker 4: her life moving forward, and that was like her body

1326
01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:21,919
Speaker 4: is a currency.

1327
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:25,120
Speaker 3: You have to use it or starve. Yeah, and she's

1328
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:27,519
Speaker 3: only eleven at this point. Yes, And by the way,

1329
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:31,360
Speaker 3: it was also true for her that was her reality, you.

1330
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:33,519
Speaker 2: Know, like that is not like something she made up

1331
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:36,759
Speaker 2: in her head. This is something that was her truth.

1332
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 2: And although that was out of alignment from everything else

1333
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 2: in the real world or the healthy world, I should say,

1334
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:46,240
Speaker 2: I don't know, it kind of breaks my heart.

1335
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:48,800
Speaker 4: She began she was eleven years old, and she was

1336
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:51,640
Speaker 4: trading sexual acts to boys at school for money and

1337
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 4: cigarettes or rides. She slept in abandoned cars in the

1338
01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:59,639
Speaker 4: woods behind houses, in like little makeshift shelters she built

1339
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:03,120
Speaker 4: from like little tent scraps she would find. And when

1340
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:07,280
Speaker 4: she was fifteen, she became pregnant after being raped by

1341
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:09,160
Speaker 4: a man she later said was a friend of her

1342
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:11,160
Speaker 4: grand her grandfather's.

1343
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:12,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, grandpa's buddy, by the way.

1344
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:15,479
Speaker 4: She gave birth at a home for unwed moms, and

1345
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:18,679
Speaker 4: the baby was immediately adopted out. And I don't really

1346
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:21,879
Speaker 4: think she really ever kind of recovered from that, honestly.

1347
01:12:22,680 --> 01:12:24,680
Speaker 4: Her grandfather kicked her out of the house and she

1348
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:28,640
Speaker 4: was fifteen years old. She was homeless. She she was

1349
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:31,719
Speaker 4: truly homeless, on the ground in the snow, totally alone.

1350
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:34,240
Speaker 4: And that was when you know, she was like, Okay,

1351
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:37,080
Speaker 4: I'm getting out of here. And as a teenager, she

1352
01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:40,400
Speaker 4: learned to live her life through drifting. She was basically

1353
01:12:40,479 --> 01:12:44,240
Speaker 4: she hitched tike across the Midwest. She slept in cars

1354
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:47,519
Speaker 4: and truck stops and anywhere she could. The highway became

1355
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:52,240
Speaker 4: her family passing strangers became her income. Right, she was

1356
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:56,040
Speaker 4: she was, you know, a sex worker, and that's Rourke.

1357
01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:58,680
Speaker 4: I'm not you know, I'm definitely not degrading her for that.

1358
01:12:59,080 --> 01:13:03,800
Speaker 4: And by eight she was drinking hard. She was in

1359
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:06,200
Speaker 4: a lot of fights. She was committing a lot of

1360
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:10,160
Speaker 4: petty crimes to survive. There are tons of arrest records

1361
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:16,839
Speaker 4: from Michigan, Colorado, dy disorderly conducts, assaults, car theft, armed robbery.

1362
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:19,719
Speaker 6: And you know, she was tough.

1363
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:22,479
Speaker 4: She was quick to anger, she was defensive, She was

1364
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:26,720
Speaker 4: very emotional, and she was always ready to kind of

1365
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:28,600
Speaker 4: like stand up for when people were getting kind of

1366
01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:29,160
Speaker 4: like bullied.

1367
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:30,960
Speaker 3: That was kind of like how that was thing?

1368
01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:34,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, she wassion a little version of her.

1369
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 5: Right.

1370
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 4: So then she meets She's and she's she's been with men,

1371
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:42,040
Speaker 4: you know, her whole life, you know. And then she

1372
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:45,439
Speaker 4: meets this woman Tyra, and we and we meet her

1373
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:49,160
Speaker 4: in the documentary Tyra. Right, And this was in nineteen

1374
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:52,320
Speaker 4: eighty six. She had moved to Florida, she had hitchdiked

1375
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:54,439
Speaker 4: to Florida and she meets this woman named Tyra. She

1376
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:58,960
Speaker 4: was a hotel maid living in Daytona Beach and Tyra

1377
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 4: was pretty stable. You know, she was pretty stable, She

1378
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:06,080
Speaker 4: was quiet. She offered Aileen, you know, something she had

1379
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:08,240
Speaker 4: never really felt, which was like a sense of belonging.

1380
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:12,040
Speaker 4: Like Tyra and her really loved each other, I.

1381
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:12,800
Speaker 3: Think, I think.

1382
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:15,640
Speaker 2: And they were consistent, like there were a consistency.

1383
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:18,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, there was a stableness like, yeah, I think that

1384
01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:20,560
Speaker 4: Aileen had been missing her entire life.

1385
01:14:20,280 --> 01:14:22,880
Speaker 2: And didn't even know how to probably function in right.

1386
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:26,519
Speaker 4: And you know, Aileen just fell deeply in love with her.

1387
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:28,679
Speaker 4: She didn't, she said she didn't know she could even

1388
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:32,240
Speaker 4: feel that way about a woman, you know. And they

1389
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:36,959
Speaker 4: basically moved in between cheap motels, rented rooms, borrow couches.

1390
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:42,599
Speaker 4: Money was always tight and Tyra expected like a lot,

1391
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:45,160
Speaker 4: I think, and Eileen could not provide that for her.

1392
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:48,040
Speaker 4: And that's why I was saying, like her killings were

1393
01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:52,599
Speaker 4: a sense of urgency and that's like this exit, you know, spree.

1394
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:56,400
Speaker 3: He would leave me if I did exactly interesting.

1395
01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:59,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's kind of how I feel she felt like,

1396
01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 4: and you know, we have her continuing to do sex

1397
01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:07,720
Speaker 4: work to provide and that's when she's like, Okay, I

1398
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:10,320
Speaker 4: have to do this because I need to provide for

1399
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 4: this woman that I love, that is providing me all

1400
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 4: this love that I wanted my entire life, right.

1401
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:18,880
Speaker 2: Like money can't be the thing that makes it go away.

1402
01:15:19,120 --> 01:15:20,240
Speaker 3: Right right.

1403
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:25,040
Speaker 4: So again they were moving around and you know, she's

1404
01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:28,880
Speaker 4: going to truck stops and wooded pull offs and this

1405
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:32,559
Speaker 4: became her hunting ground basically, you know, and to pick

1406
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:35,040
Speaker 4: up victims, right And.

1407
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:37,400
Speaker 2: Do you feel like she was picking up victims because

1408
01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:40,200
Speaker 2: she had like I hate men, and I've been I've

1409
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:42,600
Speaker 2: been had one too many times, so don't get in

1410
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:46,880
Speaker 2: my way because at some point I've had enough. And

1411
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:50,360
Speaker 2: these were like I'm fighting with a demon that I

1412
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:53,680
Speaker 2: was fighting with when I was young, and you're just

1413
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:54,840
Speaker 2: the face of it right now.

1414
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:56,599
Speaker 3: So it's a little more cold.

1415
01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:59,720
Speaker 4: Well, you know, that's a really interesting question because the

1416
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:02,639
Speaker 4: first first man that she killed, his name was Richard

1417
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:05,760
Speaker 4: Mallory and this was in nineteen eighty nine. He was

1418
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:09,160
Speaker 4: an electronics like store owner, and we found out in

1419
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:14,120
Speaker 4: the documentary that he had a violence, yes, which was and.

1420
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:16,759
Speaker 2: She was almost like in her mind of Robin Hood

1421
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:20,479
Speaker 2: of sorts. Again, I'm not justifying a Leen the Serial

1422
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:22,839
Speaker 2: Killers Rivers in any way.

1423
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:24,240
Speaker 11: But you're trying to understand.

1424
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:25,480
Speaker 3: But we're just the unpacking.

1425
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:28,720
Speaker 4: So it's interesting now that she said that she killed

1426
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:31,880
Speaker 4: him because he started attacking her and raping her. Yeah,

1427
01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:35,679
Speaker 4: and she was trying to get him off of her basically,

1428
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:36,439
Speaker 4: and she killed him.

1429
01:16:36,720 --> 01:16:39,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, because her grandfather had done that before and she

1430
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:42,519
Speaker 2: was born into a story that revolved around a lot

1431
01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:43,560
Speaker 2: of sexual event.

1432
01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:45,559
Speaker 4: You come to find out this guy has a past

1433
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:48,840
Speaker 4: of that of that is that a coincidence or not happen?

1434
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:53,679
Speaker 7: That was stunning in the documentary, by the way, when

1435
01:16:53,680 --> 01:16:57,720
Speaker 7: the reporter tells the prosecutor, I found this information in

1436
01:16:57,760 --> 01:17:02,200
Speaker 7: a day day dateline dateline. Yeah, but even I mean,

1437
01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:06,200
Speaker 7: you know, Stephanie said, you know she picked up the

1438
01:17:06,240 --> 01:17:08,360
Speaker 7: gun or as I heard it, you know, did the

1439
01:17:08,439 --> 01:17:13,040
Speaker 7: murder because as it was happening in Grandpa in this regardless,

1440
01:17:13,080 --> 01:17:15,040
Speaker 7: I don't know, I think anyone.

1441
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:19,479
Speaker 3: Being attacked in that way. It's so true.

1442
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:22,200
Speaker 2: Even if it's yeah, if there's no care to your point,

1443
01:17:22,280 --> 01:17:25,320
Speaker 2: if there's no backstory story, you know, there is a

1444
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 2: piece that you're like, no, yeah, and they raised here

1445
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:35,759
Speaker 2: we are and because she's a sex worker, it's supposed

1446
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:40,960
Speaker 2: to be cool. But in this regard it was no,

1447
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:43,280
Speaker 2: and different times.

1448
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:45,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, at different times, so really quick to sum up,

1449
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:48,519
Speaker 4: each man was shot with the twenty two. Several were

1450
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:51,559
Speaker 4: found nude or partially unclothed. Their cars were missing, their

1451
01:17:51,560 --> 01:17:55,360
Speaker 4: wallets were gone, their bodies left in wooded areas, and

1452
01:17:55,840 --> 01:17:59,559
Speaker 4: they found this pond slip and they had did the

1453
01:17:59,560 --> 01:18:02,519
Speaker 4: finger and that's how they caught her because she was

1454
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:05,720
Speaker 4: pawning the items that she would steal from these guys.

1455
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:09,040
Speaker 2: He which was also pretty messy. By the way, we're

1456
01:18:09,080 --> 01:18:12,080
Speaker 2: not saying he had it come in any means.

1457
01:18:12,160 --> 01:18:12,960
Speaker 3: It's for priority.

1458
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:16,280
Speaker 2: But I do think it's such an interesting cases and

1459
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:20,320
Speaker 2: as women, it's a very rare thing for another woman,

1460
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:24,160
Speaker 2: very rare kill so many so and.

1461
01:18:24,120 --> 01:18:26,080
Speaker 4: Again, I don't think she was really a serial killer,

1462
01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:27,920
Speaker 4: and any know, I don't think I don't think she

1463
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:30,600
Speaker 4: was really a serial killer. I think she was an

1464
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:32,360
Speaker 4: exigent spree killer.

1465
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:35,719
Speaker 2: We can we talk about that in this next Okay,

1466
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:36,559
Speaker 2: let's stay.

1467
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:37,920
Speaker 3: Well, well, keep it here.

1468
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:40,439
Speaker 7: We're all going to learn a new vocabulary from our

1469
01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:44,680
Speaker 7: body boo, and we also have some pop backs to

1470
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:47,759
Speaker 7: get into. So yeah, keep it here to Crime tonight

1471
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:50,040
Speaker 7: or give us a call. Eighty eight through one Crime

1472
01:18:50,479 --> 01:18:52,040
Speaker 7: and the show with us.

1473
01:19:02,560 --> 01:19:05,479
Speaker 2: Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1474
01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:08,720
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. Steph here with Courtney and

1475
01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:12,559
Speaker 2: Body and it's true crime and chill. Maybe we're talking

1476
01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:16,799
Speaker 2: about the Netflix documentary. If you haven't watched it, technically

1477
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:19,120
Speaker 2: you were supposed to watch it, so this was your

1478
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:20,400
Speaker 2: homework that you're late on.

1479
01:19:21,120 --> 01:19:23,599
Speaker 3: So spoiler alert. We're talking about Eileen.

1480
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:25,920
Speaker 2: She's a Queen of the serial Killers and it's a

1481
01:19:25,960 --> 01:19:29,000
Speaker 2: documentary about what is a very rare thing, which is

1482
01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:32,400
Speaker 2: a female serial killer. And Boddy, you had just said

1483
01:19:32,439 --> 01:19:35,559
Speaker 2: before the break that you did not believe that she's

1484
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:39,439
Speaker 2: an actual, air quote serial killer, that she actually was

1485
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:41,240
Speaker 2: falling into a different category.

1486
01:19:41,479 --> 01:19:43,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, describe and tell I don't know for sure.

1487
01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:46,040
Speaker 4: I'm not an expert, but you know, I do read

1488
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:49,519
Speaker 4: a lot, and I think that Eileen was an exigen

1489
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 4: spree killer.

1490
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:51,880
Speaker 3: I don't think she was a serial killer.

1491
01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:53,759
Speaker 4: And I would actually really like to talk to somebody

1492
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:55,400
Speaker 4: who like an expert about this.

1493
01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:56,599
Speaker 6: Because I always don't know.

1494
01:19:56,840 --> 01:19:58,519
Speaker 4: So there's a couple differences, and I can get through

1495
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:00,559
Speaker 4: it very quickly because I know we got some talkbacks.

1496
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:02,120
Speaker 4: We got to get too about this, Okay, So the

1497
01:20:02,120 --> 01:20:03,000
Speaker 4: cooling off period.

1498
01:20:03,080 --> 01:20:03,320
Speaker 6: Okay.

1499
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:06,320
Speaker 4: Serial killers have a cooling off period. The times can

1500
01:20:06,439 --> 01:20:09,720
Speaker 4: range from like days to months years. They return to

1501
01:20:09,840 --> 01:20:12,760
Speaker 4: normal life in between the killings and violence is part

1502
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:16,439
Speaker 4: of a cycle. It's a fantasy preparation, kill, cool down,

1503
01:20:16,479 --> 01:20:20,720
Speaker 4: repeat right, right, with a yes, it's.

1504
01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:24,400
Speaker 3: It's scary, is the cooling down. It's so scary.

1505
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:28,519
Speaker 4: Exigent spree killers, there's little there's no cooling off period.

1506
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:30,880
Speaker 4: There's or there's no where, there's a little one that

1507
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:35,600
Speaker 4: The killings happen in rapid succession, often within days or

1508
01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:36,040
Speaker 4: weeks of.

1509
01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:37,519
Speaker 3: Each other, sometimes even hours.

1510
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:41,200
Speaker 4: By the way, violence is driven by immediate pressure, not

1511
01:20:41,360 --> 01:20:45,840
Speaker 4: ritual Okay, so that's the most important difference. Serial killer

1512
01:20:46,080 --> 01:20:49,519
Speaker 4: is a cycle cool kill, cool down, repeat right. With

1513
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:53,439
Speaker 4: exigent spree killings, it's a collapse. There's a sense of

1514
01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:58,240
Speaker 4: urgency you're killing. The motivation is different for serial killer motivations.

1515
01:20:58,240 --> 01:21:04,080
Speaker 4: It's fantasy driven, ritualistic, oftentimes sexually motivated, power control dynamics.

1516
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:08,320
Speaker 4: The kill satisfies a need temporarily, and then they go

1517
01:21:08,400 --> 01:21:10,519
Speaker 4: on this cooling off period and the need comes back.

1518
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 4: With exigent spree killing, it's survival based, it's crisis driven.

1519
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:20,560
Speaker 4: It's often tied to stress paranoma.

1520
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:22,400
Speaker 3: Do you see the different.

1521
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:27,599
Speaker 2: Money or as in this case, it's she needed money,

1522
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:30,760
Speaker 2: she was in love, she wanted to maintain a relationship,

1523
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:31,559
Speaker 2: and this was.

1524
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:32,760
Speaker 3: A housing and.

1525
01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:39,120
Speaker 4: Interesting also, victimology is it's kind of a big deal too.

1526
01:21:39,240 --> 01:21:42,960
Speaker 4: Serial killers they plan and fantasize for long periods. Sometimes

1527
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:45,560
Speaker 4: they even stalk their victims. They develop kind of a

1528
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:50,240
Speaker 4: signature modus operandi. They have organized behavior, even if they're

1529
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:55,200
Speaker 4: disorganized in real life. Right exigence spree killers are opportunistic,

1530
01:21:55,520 --> 01:22:00,439
Speaker 4: they're disorganized. They kill out of necessity or some kind

1531
01:22:00,439 --> 01:22:03,080
Speaker 4: of crisis. Like I've been saying, their.

1532
01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:06,360
Speaker 2: Own rage is emotional rage, right, So if I'm being

1533
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:10,320
Speaker 2: sexually assaulted for the tenth time and I've had enough,

1534
01:22:10,680 --> 01:22:14,839
Speaker 2: then there's it's like emotionally based and it's in the moment, right.

1535
01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:18,240
Speaker 3: So they're doing I get it's such a great distinction.

1536
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:20,120
Speaker 8: At the end of the doc, I think they were

1537
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:22,640
Speaker 8: talking to another woman where she said, right before she

1538
01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:25,240
Speaker 8: was on death row, she called herself for admitted to

1539
01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:28,240
Speaker 8: being a serial killer. But now I'm as we're talking

1540
01:22:28,240 --> 01:22:30,880
Speaker 8: about this, I bet at that time they probably wouldn't

1541
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:33,360
Speaker 8: have the definition that you just had, and she didn't

1542
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:35,080
Speaker 8: know how to refer to herself as anything.

1543
01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:39,400
Speaker 2: And there's not enough women to even dissect and interestingly

1544
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:42,080
Speaker 2: look at I mean, body has done such a great

1545
01:22:42,160 --> 01:22:45,639
Speaker 2: job unpacking that, because you know, there's not a ton

1546
01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:46,840
Speaker 2: of examples to point to.

1547
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:47,559
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1548
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:49,840
Speaker 8: I did a quick search and I saw about they're

1549
01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:53,439
Speaker 8: like only about five notable female serial killers that I

1550
01:22:53,439 --> 01:22:55,960
Speaker 8: could come up with, So which I think we might

1551
01:22:56,000 --> 01:22:58,400
Speaker 8: have something on that topic one night as well.

1552
01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:02,040
Speaker 3: We should kill her women killer women? Killing women are

1553
01:23:02,120 --> 01:23:02,839
Speaker 3: less common?

1554
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:05,880
Speaker 8: Yeah, what did I see? It's only ten to fifteen

1555
01:23:05,920 --> 01:23:07,599
Speaker 8: percent of all serial killers of women.

1556
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:11,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, killer women as a general is not less common,

1557
01:23:11,439 --> 01:23:12,880
Speaker 2: but I think in the serial.

1558
01:23:12,560 --> 01:23:15,679
Speaker 3: Killer department even more so, there are less.

1559
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:18,880
Speaker 2: And I think women there's a lot of like you know,

1560
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:21,040
Speaker 2: I love you, I hate you.

1561
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:24,120
Speaker 7: You're dead, right, but percentage wise it has to be

1562
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:28,040
Speaker 7: right less than men. But oh yeah, you know, I

1563
01:23:28,040 --> 01:23:30,519
Speaker 7: was gonna say on what you were saying, Stephanie, like

1564
01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:33,679
Speaker 7: I don't condone violence of any kind.

1565
01:23:34,200 --> 01:23:37,880
Speaker 3: Oh, obviously you're the sweeter everybody here. There were all

1566
01:23:38,080 --> 01:23:42,479
Speaker 3: we're all lovers and gators, we're all passive. That said

1567
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:47,000
Speaker 3: Eileen's life. I know what she didn't mean.

1568
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:49,679
Speaker 2: The only thing that makes sense it is the original

1569
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:52,080
Speaker 2: story that makes a monster, you know. And by the way,

1570
01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:55,200
Speaker 2: it's really hard to watch the documentary if you haven't

1571
01:23:55,200 --> 01:23:57,559
Speaker 2: seen Charlie's their own in the film.

1572
01:23:58,120 --> 01:23:59,960
Speaker 3: Oh why did she do an extraordinary job?

1573
01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:02,400
Speaker 2: When you watch the documentary, we're like, hey, can we

1574
01:24:02,439 --> 01:24:06,920
Speaker 2: give her another Academy Award because she really rushed it.

1575
01:24:07,000 --> 01:24:10,080
Speaker 2: And by the way, even then, when I saw that movie,

1576
01:24:10,240 --> 01:24:12,360
Speaker 2: and it was likely at different time, and certainly I

1577
01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:15,000
Speaker 2: didn't work in true crime at that time, it didn't

1578
01:24:15,080 --> 01:24:18,280
Speaker 2: hit me the same way. But her performance of course

1579
01:24:18,320 --> 01:24:22,360
Speaker 2: did and her make under But I remember thinking she

1580
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:27,799
Speaker 2: played a killer. I didn't really appreciate the origin story

1581
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:28,799
Speaker 2: and sort of.

1582
01:24:28,680 --> 01:24:30,400
Speaker 3: They don't go into it that put. They don't go

1583
01:24:30,479 --> 01:24:32,640
Speaker 3: into it in that film. As much as just surprising,

1584
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:33,439
Speaker 3: it is surprising.

1585
01:24:33,760 --> 01:24:36,360
Speaker 2: But she did a great representation of her.

1586
01:24:36,240 --> 01:24:38,599
Speaker 6: She really did so, I mean visually too.

1587
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:40,320
Speaker 3: It's astounding.

1588
01:24:40,479 --> 01:24:42,160
Speaker 2: As I was watching it, I was like, maybe I'm

1589
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:44,760
Speaker 2: not loving this as much because it's so difficult to

1590
01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:46,280
Speaker 2: watch because it's so painful.

1591
01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:49,200
Speaker 4: I often watch these documentaries and I never really ever

1592
01:24:49,240 --> 01:24:53,200
Speaker 4: feel sorry or sympathy for the defendant, right, the suspect,

1593
01:24:53,240 --> 01:24:55,479
Speaker 4: the killer, whatever, but her I did.

1594
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:57,160
Speaker 3: I looked at her and I just felt sorry. I

1595
01:24:57,160 --> 01:24:59,040
Speaker 3: felt bad for her. Yeah, I feel like she didn't

1596
01:24:59,040 --> 01:24:59,679
Speaker 3: have a chance.

1597
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:02,760
Speaker 2: Like it's just like, yeah, but this is what a

1598
01:25:02,800 --> 01:25:05,880
Speaker 2: one plus one equals too, right, Like again, not justifying

1599
01:25:06,280 --> 01:25:10,680
Speaker 2: and there's no justification obviously on any side but me

1600
01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:12,479
Speaker 2: and if you guys want to do a top.

1601
01:25:12,360 --> 01:25:16,519
Speaker 3: Breaker's, hey, this is producer Ava.

1602
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:19,519
Speaker 10: And I just wanted to wait in on the Eileen

1603
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:22,960
Speaker 10: doc because it just made me so mad when they

1604
01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:25,880
Speaker 10: were interviewing her prosecutor and he was bragging about how

1605
01:25:26,200 --> 01:25:28,000
Speaker 10: he knows the judge and he got the judge to

1606
01:25:28,080 --> 01:25:31,200
Speaker 10: let him submit the evidence for the other cases, the

1607
01:25:31,240 --> 01:25:33,479
Speaker 10: other six murders that weren't even part of that trial.

1608
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:36,040
Speaker 10: It just seems so unfair and like the whole system

1609
01:25:36,080 --> 01:25:37,679
Speaker 10: was rigged against her, and it made me really sad

1610
01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:38,120
Speaker 10: to watch.

1611
01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:43,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so you're producer Ava, so wait, we love

1612
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:47,960
Speaker 2: you Ava, rost Star. You are yeah right though correct,

1613
01:25:48,040 --> 01:25:49,920
Speaker 2: it was horse garbage.

1614
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:52,559
Speaker 3: That was almost whoa that would.

1615
01:25:52,439 --> 01:25:57,040
Speaker 2: Not happen today's even today as the bill has been passed.

1616
01:25:57,080 --> 01:25:59,560
Speaker 2: In the mcne files, I don't think this would have

1617
01:25:59,560 --> 01:26:02,519
Speaker 2: been hen in the same way. And the hope would

1618
01:26:02,560 --> 01:26:05,880
Speaker 2: be if Eileen was born into the same world, maybe

1619
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:08,519
Speaker 2: somebody would have stepped in, maybe there would have been

1620
01:26:08,600 --> 01:26:12,480
Speaker 2: child protective services, maybe she would have had an education

1621
01:26:12,760 --> 01:26:15,719
Speaker 2: or somebody that like looked back, there's so many amazing

1622
01:26:15,760 --> 01:26:18,040
Speaker 2: foster people. I don't know. The world is better than

1623
01:26:18,040 --> 01:26:18,439
Speaker 2: we think.

1624
01:26:18,680 --> 01:26:21,719
Speaker 7: Okay, yes, I agree there is more good than bad,

1625
01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:23,799
Speaker 7: which is the thing I really do need to remind myself.

1626
01:26:23,800 --> 01:26:27,080
Speaker 7: And you say, however, Rebecca Park, that we're just talking

1627
01:26:27,080 --> 01:26:31,480
Speaker 7: about and no one's taking the right the children involved

1628
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:34,800
Speaker 7: with seventeen different And I'm not making light of this

1629
01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:35,760
Speaker 7: at all, no, but.

1630
01:26:35,640 --> 01:26:40,679
Speaker 3: That's why it's shot in Rebecca's personal life that kids

1631
01:26:40,680 --> 01:26:41,559
Speaker 3: have been taken from her.

1632
01:26:42,800 --> 01:26:46,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great, okay, Yeah, because every single person around

1633
01:26:46,080 --> 01:26:48,800
Speaker 2: her is a registered sex offender. By the way, when

1634
01:26:48,840 --> 01:26:51,240
Speaker 2: Eileen was coming up, again, I'm not justifying, but.

1635
01:26:51,160 --> 01:26:53,200
Speaker 3: There weren't really registered sex offenders.

1636
01:26:53,439 --> 01:26:56,479
Speaker 2: There was no registry of the stiff one who was

1637
01:26:56,560 --> 01:27:00,479
Speaker 2: being called to the carpet for crimes against children. If

1638
01:27:00,479 --> 01:27:04,240
Speaker 2: you were raping your child or your student, or you're

1639
01:27:04,280 --> 01:27:07,240
Speaker 2: in your parish, it was just sort of like looked

1640
01:27:07,320 --> 01:27:09,680
Speaker 2: the other way, we've seen the movie Spotlight. We know

1641
01:27:09,800 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 2: what has happened in the world since then, and I

1642
01:27:12,439 --> 01:27:14,800
Speaker 2: like to believe we've come so far, which is why

1643
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:17,240
Speaker 2: the epscene thing makes me so crazy, because it's like, really.

1644
01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:19,200
Speaker 3: Guys, how do we not evolved?

1645
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:22,400
Speaker 2: And by the way, honestly, my takeaway in most of

1646
01:27:22,439 --> 01:27:26,479
Speaker 2: the cases that we've worked on is that abuse behind

1647
01:27:26,479 --> 01:27:29,880
Speaker 2: closed doors, physical abuse and sexual abuse is more rampant

1648
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:32,680
Speaker 2: than anybody knows. I think that numbers are so far

1649
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:36,920
Speaker 2: higher than anybody will know. There's no consensus, so there's

1650
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:41,280
Speaker 2: no statistics because there's so much shame attached, and then

1651
01:27:41,320 --> 01:27:43,599
Speaker 2: it repeats, and it repeats, and it repeats, and then

1652
01:27:43,600 --> 01:27:46,519
Speaker 2: the shame and then that repeats. It's actually shocking. I

1653
01:27:46,520 --> 01:27:48,600
Speaker 2: think that would be the one. I don't even know

1654
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:50,920
Speaker 2: why we're talking about this, but it is the one

1655
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:54,320
Speaker 2: factor that I would say is the unspoken truth to

1656
01:27:54,400 --> 01:27:56,600
Speaker 2: a lot of things that happen in the cases that

1657
01:27:56,640 --> 01:27:57,120
Speaker 2: we work on.

1658
01:27:57,600 --> 01:28:00,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, well this was a hot topic out of

1659
01:28:00,240 --> 01:28:02,519
Speaker 8: our listeners, So we have another talk back if we

1660
01:28:02,560 --> 01:28:03,439
Speaker 8: want to go to one more.

1661
01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:08,519
Speaker 14: About Yeah, of course, did anything in the never before

1662
01:28:08,680 --> 01:28:15,280
Speaker 14: seen Death Row interviews change your understanding of Eileen's motives

1663
01:28:15,320 --> 01:28:16,679
Speaker 14: and maybe point of view.

1664
01:28:17,080 --> 01:28:17,519
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1665
01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:20,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well when I first saw some of the interview,

1666
01:28:21,040 --> 01:28:23,120
Speaker 4: I saw a lot of tenderness in her when she

1667
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:26,240
Speaker 4: talked about her girlfriend, yeah, and that she loved her

1668
01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:28,599
Speaker 4: and she still loved her even though she had turned

1669
01:28:28,640 --> 01:28:30,759
Speaker 4: on her and testified against her and you know, basically

1670
01:28:30,760 --> 01:28:33,040
Speaker 4: set her up for this confession, right. I saw a

1671
01:28:33,040 --> 01:28:35,320
Speaker 4: lot of tenderness that I had never seen. I mean

1672
01:28:35,320 --> 01:28:37,720
Speaker 4: I saw it in Monsters, you know, a little bit

1673
01:28:37,760 --> 01:28:40,479
Speaker 4: with her performance and was done so well. But seeing

1674
01:28:40,520 --> 01:28:44,080
Speaker 4: it with her, you know, it personally, and then seeing

1675
01:28:44,080 --> 01:28:47,320
Speaker 4: her kind of like spiral a little bit mentally.

1676
01:28:48,080 --> 01:28:48,760
Speaker 3: I never seen that.

1677
01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:50,400
Speaker 4: You know, I'd heard about it, but I had never

1678
01:28:50,400 --> 01:28:54,280
Speaker 4: seen it, and it just really listened. Like I said,

1679
01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:56,920
Speaker 4: I never really saw I never feel sorry for these people. Ever,

1680
01:28:57,520 --> 01:28:59,920
Speaker 4: I'm like, you deserve it whatever. I felt sorry for her.

1681
01:29:00,439 --> 01:29:05,680
Speaker 7: It's so funny because I often will feel I don't

1682
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:09,559
Speaker 7: know crazy. In Love, which fifty two stories that really

1683
01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:14,120
Speaker 7: did change me of under just an understanding of every

1684
01:29:14,200 --> 01:29:15,320
Speaker 7: piece of the puzzle.

1685
01:29:15,520 --> 01:29:17,960
Speaker 3: And how so anyways, in Love as.

1686
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:21,840
Speaker 2: A podcast we did every episode is a new episode

1687
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:25,040
Speaker 2: of an amazing love story that goes real South and

1688
01:29:25,240 --> 01:29:28,080
Speaker 2: ends ultimately a murder and Courtney worked in a very

1689
01:29:28,120 --> 01:29:31,960
Speaker 2: closely and I would say fifty two episodes later, you

1690
01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:35,599
Speaker 2: had a different understanding or feeling for like, sometimes love

1691
01:29:36,080 --> 01:29:39,559
Speaker 2: is so intertwined with rage. We're not justifying it, but

1692
01:29:39,640 --> 01:29:44,200
Speaker 2: this is true, right, and that can make circumstances unbearable.

1693
01:29:44,560 --> 01:29:47,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, and how people can be driven and it was

1694
01:29:47,760 --> 01:29:52,240
Speaker 7: heartbreaking body to see. Maybe the layers was. Yeah, I

1695
01:29:52,320 --> 01:29:52,960
Speaker 7: just part of it.

1696
01:29:53,360 --> 01:29:56,559
Speaker 2: I've interviewed so many people that on the nose have

1697
01:29:56,680 --> 01:29:59,240
Speaker 2: done very bad things. I have never left an interview

1698
01:29:59,240 --> 01:30:01,559
Speaker 2: and that one thing time. Let me just think for myself.

1699
01:30:01,640 --> 01:30:04,280
Speaker 2: I don't think kirk me. I will kirk myself if

1700
01:30:04,320 --> 01:30:06,680
Speaker 2: I remember when when I fall asleep tonight, which I'm

1701
01:30:06,680 --> 01:30:08,920
Speaker 2: sure I will. But top of head, there isn't a

1702
01:30:09,160 --> 01:30:11,559
Speaker 2: single human being that I have sat down.

1703
01:30:11,360 --> 01:30:12,240
Speaker 3: With ida eye.

1704
01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:14,680
Speaker 2: And by the way, they have may have done some

1705
01:30:14,800 --> 01:30:18,240
Speaker 2: messy things and made some very bad choices on its nose,

1706
01:30:18,520 --> 01:30:22,759
Speaker 2: and then when you hear them speak. I have never, ever, ever,

1707
01:30:23,040 --> 01:30:27,400
Speaker 2: ever left an interview not thinking I hear you, Oh, really,

1708
01:30:28,120 --> 01:30:32,400
Speaker 2: I feel you, Like we have to allow perspective, like

1709
01:30:32,680 --> 01:30:36,040
Speaker 2: none of it is given the same playbook and it

1710
01:30:36,200 --> 01:30:39,000
Speaker 2: doesn't justify. You got to do the time when you

1711
01:30:39,080 --> 01:30:42,400
Speaker 2: do the crimes. Like the end, I'm pretty judging jury

1712
01:30:42,439 --> 01:30:45,840
Speaker 2: on that front, so you got to pay up. But

1713
01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:48,880
Speaker 2: I literally have never left a single interview where it

1714
01:30:48,920 --> 01:30:52,200
Speaker 2: was ida I where I was like, well I those

1715
01:30:52,320 --> 01:30:55,760
Speaker 2: black wack of news. In fact, quite the opposite. I've

1716
01:30:55,800 --> 01:30:58,559
Speaker 2: always kind of left a little changed and sort of

1717
01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:00,000
Speaker 2: felt like it gives.

1718
01:30:59,800 --> 01:31:00,840
Speaker 6: You a different perspective.

1719
01:31:01,000 --> 01:31:02,760
Speaker 2: Is that just like, yeah, it's not a justif I

1720
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:04,920
Speaker 2: don't feel good about it or bad about it.

1721
01:31:05,120 --> 01:31:10,320
Speaker 3: I always right, like humans are, you know, complicated. Yeah,

1722
01:31:10,320 --> 01:31:11,800
Speaker 3: and you got to connect a little bit.

1723
01:31:11,840 --> 01:31:15,720
Speaker 7: If you're literally sitting across from someone and speaking to them,

1724
01:31:15,760 --> 01:31:18,600
Speaker 7: it is. It's a different thing than reading about Believe me,

1725
01:31:18,640 --> 01:31:23,200
Speaker 7: if anyone read some article about every bad or questionable deed.

1726
01:31:23,040 --> 01:31:26,880
Speaker 3: I've done in my life not so charming, you.

1727
01:31:26,840 --> 01:31:30,880
Speaker 2: Know, even in Britain, But like, yeah, now add every

1728
01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:35,200
Speaker 2: crappy circumstance known to man dumped on a human at birth,

1729
01:31:35,600 --> 01:31:37,479
Speaker 2: and you're like, I don't know why I didn't thrive.

1730
01:31:37,760 --> 01:31:40,680
Speaker 2: You know, some thrive so well. And again it's all

1731
01:31:40,720 --> 01:31:43,240
Speaker 2: about talk. If you do not talk about it, if

1732
01:31:43,280 --> 01:31:46,040
Speaker 2: you do not widen the circle and talk outside of it.

1733
01:31:46,120 --> 01:31:48,880
Speaker 2: If you're the victim of a crime and you don't

1734
01:31:48,880 --> 01:31:51,679
Speaker 2: get the chance to talk about it, it gets weird.

1735
01:31:52,040 --> 01:31:55,400
Speaker 2: It just builds into the snowball of craziness. We only

1736
01:31:55,439 --> 01:31:57,280
Speaker 2: have one minute left, but maybe another talk back.

1737
01:31:57,439 --> 01:31:58,800
Speaker 11: I'm not sure. I don't think we're going to have

1738
01:31:58,800 --> 01:32:01,840
Speaker 11: the time for it because this one. I know. I

1739
01:32:01,880 --> 01:32:04,000
Speaker 11: know I teased you by accidentally saying with.

1740
01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:07,360
Speaker 2: My headline, but listen, I get not the soapbox that

1741
01:32:07,439 --> 01:32:08,760
Speaker 2: we're not justifying.

1742
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:10,120
Speaker 11: My eyes in a different way.

1743
01:32:10,240 --> 01:32:12,160
Speaker 8: So thank you for that, because I look at this

1744
01:32:12,280 --> 01:32:14,040
Speaker 8: documentary and a lot of what you're saying, it's a

1745
01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:14,920
Speaker 8: tough documentary.

1746
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:18,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not justifying Eileen though. Are we clear on that?

1747
01:32:18,479 --> 01:32:21,240
Speaker 2: Raise your right hand. If we think serial killing is bad.

1748
01:32:21,240 --> 01:32:22,559
Speaker 11: We all, I think we can all.

1749
01:32:22,600 --> 01:32:25,800
Speaker 3: We all thank you, thank you.

1750
01:32:28,200 --> 01:32:31,080
Speaker 2: Oh boy. But I think we're just going to leave

1751
01:32:31,080 --> 01:32:33,920
Speaker 2: this with it. I don't know, courting.

1752
01:32:33,080 --> 01:32:37,000
Speaker 7: Ad that we look forward to being with you tomorrow.

1753
01:32:38,800 --> 01:32:40,280
Speaker 3: All right, stay safe out there.