WEBVTT - Locked Out 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.360 bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:26.520 can't predict anything. You're telling me. You're telling me nine 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:33.720 point five two nine point five to million acres of 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:42.600 American ground, public publicly owned American ground is inaccessible. The 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:47.520 people who like to hunting fish and walk around landlocked landlocked. 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:50.760 If you added up all the acreage I own, that's 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:56.800 four point to five six million times the acres I own. 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:03.280 It's a big chunk of land. Dude. Yeah, Uh, how 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:05.640 do you put it in terms of how do you 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:07.720 put it in terms of like, you know, everybody, when 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:09.880 everyone's trying to make something seem big, they compared to 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:13.680 Rhode Island. Right, if you want to make something small, 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:16.560 you compare it to Texas. But you guys don't even 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:20.640 need to do the Rhode Island comparison. New Hampshire in 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:24.720 Connecticut right to state combo. Still it's still the dinky 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:30.000 states in the East. But still nine point five two 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:33.760 million acres of landlocked land in America. Well, isn't yellow 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:36.600 still like two million acres. It's a way of putting it. 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:40.759 It's like five times that size five Yellowstone National Parks 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:45.320 owned by the American people but not accessible to the public, 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:52.400 and most of them are BLM land. It's mostly BLM 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:55.200 and it's like a Western deal, right, But there's not 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:58.120 a lot of landlocked land in the East. Not that 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:00.880 what listen, Easterners do not now because this is gonna 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:04.160 because we're talking about your ground, your dirt here. It's 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:07.880 just far away from your house, I'm sure. But it's 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:10.360 in the West. Well, that's what we looked at. I mean, 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.359 the majority of it is. But I'm sure there's landlocked 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.320 lands across the nation that we just have them looked at. 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:22.240 Can you guys introduce yourselves? Go ahead, John, all right, Sure. 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:26.320 I'm Joel Webster. I'm the Western Lands Director with Theodore 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:30.120 Roosevelt Conservation Partnership TRCP. I'm based in Montana. I grew 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.720 up out West and I work across the West on 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:39.959 public land issues, so habitat conservation, but also access. I'm 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.959 Eric stick Freedom, the founder of on x. We make 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:46.760 a GPS app that helps people get outdoors and stay 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:50.760 safe and stay legal and stay frustrated when they're looking 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:53.720 at and when they're looking at landlocked land. Being like dude, 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.600 but it's right there. I just can't get to it. 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.920 No matter how I finagle my way around, I can't 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.720 them that get to it. We're gonna define landlocked playing 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:06.760 a minute here, okay, And I'm Lisa Nichols. I'm one 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:09.320 of the g I S supervisors at on X, and 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:14.000 explain g i S geographic information systems or geographic information 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:18.960 science UM basically compiling data that has a location component 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:21.760 into a system so that you can make maps from 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:26.600 it or run analyzes like this. Okay, And then Mark 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:29.600 Kenny from Wire to Hunt's here, Sir, Mark Gills is 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:33.000 on a daily basis. I don't know about daily basis. 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:35.520 Being in Michigan, you do it a lot. You're just 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:37.040 dealing with the R day. Why are you? Why are 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.800 you trying to knock me down? You gotta be like 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:43.040 hourly bro. I was dealing with this like two weeks 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:45.200 ago on my white Tail hunt Montana and then this 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:49.000 weekend chasing ELK. I wasn't dealing with this all the time, 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:50.960 but I was looking at a couple of situations like 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.840 that on my map using my Onyx maps all weekend. 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:58.560 So yeah, very we're we're very well aware of the 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:03.440 issue and then jay as poodless, well get anything you 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:06.240 want to hell here still here after all these years, 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:10.080 So define landlocked man? Like I I think I feel 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:11.720 like everybody's cann know because one of my favorite things 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:13.560 to talk about is uh, I like to talk about 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:21.280 corner happened, how it's right kind of right behind not recommended? 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:24.400 Well yeah yeah yeah the day I defind I like 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.560 my two favorite subjects lately would be like different names 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:30.760 for how one loads chew and then um things that 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:33.599 make Turkey's gobble, and then corner happened is right up 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:38.040 there with it. But but we're we'll get into corner happened. 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:42.720 Maybe who wants to take on what a landlocked land is? Okay? 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:45.320 So um For this analysis, we were just looking at 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:49.320 places where public roads do not provide access to pieces 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:52.880 of public land. So certainly there's opportunities to fly into 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:57.479 places with helicopters. There's opportunities to access places um by water. 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:00.520 When you say public roads, public roads or trails or anything, 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:04.080 well just for this was public roads. Yeah, there's certainly 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:06.760 places where you could hike in. You know that a 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:08.880 landowner would allow you to cross their land, or that 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.960 there's an established trail and there's a trailhead outside of 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:14.520 the land. But for this purpose, for the purpose of 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:21.080 this analysis, we were just looking at access from roads. Uh, quickly, 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.320 what happens that number? If you turn it into that 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:27.880 you can walk in across public land. It's just not 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.000 um something that we could really capture with the data. 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:33.560 What do you call NASH what do you call designated wilderness? 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:36.640 You can't walk, you can't drive on it. It's not landlocked. 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:41.159 We explain the direct indirect analysis. So yeah, so UM, 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.160 we kind of broke it down into two different categories. 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:46.680 So the direct access component would be like if you 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.120 had a public road that would cross or intersect a 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.240 peace of public land or actually skirt alongside next to 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:55.800 the public land where you could park your vehicle, get 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.400 out and get right onto the public land without crossing 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:01.640 any sort of private property. UM, that's direct access. And 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:05.400 then the indirect access component was if you could access um, 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:09.320 a piece of public land through another accessible land, so 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:11.480 like if you could take BLM to get to force 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:15.800 service or vice versa. UM, then then we considered that 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:19.720 indirect access and that's not counted in this figure. UM. 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:22.760 So yeah, if if you could access it indirectly. It's 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:24.159 not part of this number. It's not part of the 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:28.919 nine million. And I think trail access across private land 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:34.359 to public land with established permanent easements, which we'll get into, 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:38.479 that's pretty rare. That's rare. It's pretty rare. Yeah, I 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.200 got you. But Steve to like to your point of 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:43.360 can you walk across it? Yeah, if there's a road 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:45.600 that touches any piece of that public land, and it's 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:48.400 a huge chunk of public land, we considered it accessible 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:50.240 as long as there was a public road touching it. 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.680 Anywhere you could walk across, anywhere there might be trails. 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:57.400 But yeah, it's it was considered in the will, not 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:02.200 considered in the number of of land law. A million 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:05.960 acre parcel with one roil to the corner that would 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:09.600 be considered accessible. So it's not that you need to 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:11.960 be able to drive across, but you can get to it, 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:15.800 that's right. Um. So I think actually, if you wanted 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:22.080 to look at accessibility um in terms of like terrain right, Um, 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:23.760 Like there could be a giant piece of land that 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:25.880 has an access point on one side of it and 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:29.600 the other side of it's very difficult to access. Um 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:33.440 that by is you know that's pretty inaccessible, but that 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:34.960 was not counted to this report. So I think you 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.200 can actually argue that there's a lot more land than 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.280 this that isn't accessible if you wanted to change the definition. 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:42.000 But we had to create a definition. So that's what 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.800 we did. Can we talk from it, uh? Can we 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:46.720 talk from it? Just to help people understand what we're 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:53.320 talking about the Dirty Hills situation, because here you have like, 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.320 unless it's a better case, unless there's a better case study, 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:58.600 do you guys not like that one because it's so sticky? 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:03.240 I think it's great virchel. Okay, So there is a 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.120 place in Montana known as the Dirty Hills, which five 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:08.160 years ago, ten years ago, whatever it was, no one 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:13.640 knew what the Dirty Hills were. But they've become an emblem, right, 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:18.320 they become like symbolic of landlocked lands in general. Where 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:25.760 you have a acre two acre chunk of ground that 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:27.480 has really good hunting on it, has a lot of 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:34.960 elk on it, surrounded by lands owned by uh two individuals. 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:38.520 I think there's a pair of brothers the own lands 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:42.240 surrounding this thing. There's no public access to it, and 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:44.199 what kind of makes it one of the reasons that 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:49.080 makes it kind of sticky and and interesting is that 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:52.080 at some point in time people started saying, well, Okay, 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:55.800 if I can't access it by walking in or driving in, 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:59.439 I'm gonna find a way to start accessing it with aircraft. 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:04.640 So some number of people, maybe thirty to sixty people 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:08.440 a year, have begun flying in on helicopters or flying 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:11.960 in on fixed wing aircraft and landing on old roads 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.560 to go and hunt this land locked area. And I 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:20.920 think on one hand they're making a statement is that fair? 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:23.240 And no one hand, they just want to get some 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:26.600 good hunting. There's a lot of good hunting. I think 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:30.560 it's almost like, um, it's not even civil disobedience, because 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:36.280 it's not disobedient. It's like exercising of one's rights to 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:39.880 fly in to the Dirty Hills. The way this gets 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.880 even more interesting as a as a case study, is 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:47.400 that the same people that own the Dirty Hills own 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:54.680 a bunch more properties, including a property that is has 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:59.080 the potential to block vehicular access to fifty tho acres 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.400 of public land. And some years ago they proposed to 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:04.600 the Bureau of Land Management. They came and said, I'll 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:10.360 tell you what I'll give you one of my ranches 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:15.280 which will open up roaded access to fifty thousand acres 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:20.320 of public land in exchange for the two thousand, five 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.480 hundred acres of public land you own in the middle 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:27.120 of my ranch. And the BLM wasn't able to take 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.679 the deal. I must pay some big balls on that ranch. 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:34.079 Well some so when when this ranch that allows the 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.040 access to the fifty acres, when they enrolled themselves in 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:42.800 a public access program, eight hundred public users signed up 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:47.640 to access through that ranch. So eight hundred public users 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:53.120 use that ranch to access the Bullwhacker Creek drainage, and 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:57.400 around thirty people hunt this Dirty Hills section. So there 0:10:57.480 --> 0:10:59.520 was like competing interests for some people saying it's not 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:04.240 a fair swap, the hunting opportunities aren't equal, or it's 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:06.960 not a fair swap for whatever. But anyways, the BLM, 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:09.800 I think not because they were interested. Because of cost 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:15.760 and manpower and other issues with with roads and whatnot, 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:20.360 they were not able to to seriously entertain the deal. 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:23.840 While are you guys giving knowing glances, Well, I think 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:26.360 the reason that deal wasn't entertained is because there was 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:30.200 so much backlash from from Montana sportsman in Central Montana. 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.079 You mean the thirty guys that like hunting Dirfy Hills. No, 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:36.360 I mean there was significant blowback from that proposal. What 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:40.800 was the I only see the real quick. I only like, 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:44.600 without knowing the particulars, it seemed like at the surface level, 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:47.640 for what I explained, it seems like an enticing deal. 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:51.679 But I haven't dug into it. What makes it not enticing? 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:57.120 I you know, I'm not claiming to be an expert 0:11:57.160 --> 0:11:58.840 on a sort of ball whacker deal. I do know 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:03.280 that there was an alternative route proposed, um, you know 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:06.960 to access those blm lands we've wanted off canoes. Yeah, 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:08.280 and you can also get in there if you walk 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:10.959 along ways from a different direction. I just know that 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:12.960 there's some folks that are pretty passionate about the dirties 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:14.800 and they'd love to hunt it. Um you know, some 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:16.600 pretty good all cutting and then there's some big bowls 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:19.040 on that ranch around there, and so aircraft. I think 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.040 part of it too is that, um there was a 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:23.120 big you know, legal fight over and now we'll get 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:26.800 into Eastman's probably later, but um, you know, there was 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:29.800 a route that crossed that ranch that was open to 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:32.480 the public and then the Wilkes brothers who owned that 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:36.400 piece of property closed it. There was some litigation over 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.559 that that went to court, and um, the sportsman's community 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:41.960 lost people who are involved in that. And so as 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:43.840 a result that that route was closed. And so I 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:45.559 also think that there's UM a little bit of a 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:50.800 taste in people's mouths. Yeah, I got you. There's another one, um, 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:52.959 just to give it people another example of what we're 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.560 talking about. We're talking about struggles over landlocked lands. There's 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:57.959 a ranch in Colorado where Joel, you and I have 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:02.439 been there. Why are you give an annoying lands? But 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:06.880 we're good, Okay. There's a ranch called the High Lonesome 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:10.200 Ranch who's in a big legal piss and match with 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.160 the county in this case where there's a county road 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:18.280 that accesses public lands and they're in a protracted legal 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:21.480 battle where where the county gets outspent the county or 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.120 you know, they put forty dollars in the legal fees 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:27.320 and it's not I don't know if it's sustainable. They 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.120 keep getting outspent. But they're saying, hey, man, that's our road. 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:32.600 That's an open road. The ranch has a gated They 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:34.600 say no, it's not open. We got a gate across 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:39.560 it to prevent to prevent people from accessing big chunks 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:41.800 of public land. So the point being, these are like 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.320 battles that are being waited. There's like battles being waged 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:46.800 around public land access all the time. And I know 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:48.720 that you're not coming out of saying that everything should 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:50.560 turn into a fight, because there's a lot of situations 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:54.400 where these things can be resolved with willing sellers, willing buyers, 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.079 there's public money available. I don't want to act like 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.920 it's all the contentious and nasty and people suing each other, 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.040 but I'm just trying to raise the idea that there 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:07.440 are little battles in the war over public land access 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.040 that do turn ugly and contentious. And I think those 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.720 battles are becoming more common as we see a shift 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.880 in ownership patterns across the West, with you know, new 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:17.679 people moving in with a lot of money who aren't 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.360 from there that maybe don't you know, traditionally a lot 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:22.640 of these places are open um. You know, just by 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:24.640 knocking on the door helping somebody out on their ranch 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:26.680 or whatever, you get access to go hunt their property. 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:30.120 And that's changed, and so as a result, there's more 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:35.000 and more conflict, and um, I think, you know, I 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:36.960 think what's going on in Colorado, I think what's happened 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:40.560 in the Crazy Mountains. Um, it's just emblematic of what's 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:42.880 happening in today's world. And I think the intent of 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:45.280 this project we're working on and then we put together 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:49.200 here that was really focused on cooperative solutions that bring 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:51.720 people together to help solve this problem prevent that from 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:54.160 happening in the first place. Can you give me a 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:58.240 quick rundown and anyone on if you had to say, 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:05.840 like generally, what allowed um lands to become landlocked? Like 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:08.080 what were the mechanisms in place that it seems like 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.280 a really weird oversight, Right, Well, I think it just 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:13.640 happened by the nature of the West and how the 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:16.400 West was settled. Um, there's a whole you know, bunch 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:18.160 of laws that are tied to I mean, I'll start 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:20.880 out with the Homestead Act, right, which in eighteen sixty 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:24.280 two was the first one, and there were several where, uh, 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:27.120 you know, settlers are coming out um from the east 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.160 and coming out here and getting their hundred and sixty 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:30.640 acres and they're gonna make a go at it. But 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.080 that was when you like stake the claim. That's right. 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:36.640 There's a lot of movies on that, um, and you 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:39.160 know that that that's where it all began. But then 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:42.000 you know, there were the railroad land grants where there 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:46.320 are these individual um attempts by Congress to get these 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.800 railroads to these specific areas where, um, if a company 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.280 went and built a railroad, they get alternating sections, so 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:57.760 a checkerboard checkerboarded style landscape. UM, you know, alternating sections 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:00.120 will be given to that railroad across the lands. If 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:02.520 you'd have a you know, one section zoned by the 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:04.760 federal government or the General Land Office at the time, 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:06.520 and then the other section zoned by that railroad. And 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:08.960 they allowed him to be corner to corner, corner to corner. 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:10.440 And I know you guys have talked a lot about 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.120 the access. So there that's like you can, I mean 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:16.720 there you can like vividly see the problem. Yeah. And 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:20.680 there's other crazy stuff too, like during the depression, and um, 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.360 there's this one thing, this one law that was called 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:26.880 the Bankhead Jones Farm Tenant Act, which I find really interesting. 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:29.840 It was past the seven and what it did is 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:35.120 it bought a bunch of like um, you know, failed 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:39.240 farms back from private landowners in places where it just 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:41.920 wasn't suitable for farming. People had gone and homestead of 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:45.200 that land. It was rough and rocky, and they probably 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.880 used it pretty hard and it just wasn't proving. And 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:50.840 so the federal government actually went and bought that land back, 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:53.200 and that went back. Originally all went to them, the 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:54.720 four Service, but some of them ended up going to 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:56.800 the BLM. And if you look at like the Dakota 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:00.720 Grasslands and in North Dakota and South Dakota like that 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:03.440 that bad lands country, which is really great meldeer hunting. UM. 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:06.240 You look at like the high line in Montana, and 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:08.359 then also the lowest town like some of that breaks 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.960 country right or right right right around it anyway. Um. 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:15.560 And then also down in Wyoming and uh in New 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.760 Mexico and Colorado, there's just eleven million acres went went 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:21.080 back to the federalist state that were private, right. And 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.040 this is all happening and disjointed, and so as long 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:27.240 as they're surrounding neighbors stayed solvent. That piece of land 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:31.359 in the middle became federally owned but not federally accessible, 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.280 that's right, that's right. And then there's like you know 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:39.760 the notorious Oregon in California sort of railroad scheme where um, 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:42.840 there were like three point seven million acres made available 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.280 um for a railroad company that would build a railroad 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:50.440 across western Oregon again in a checkerboard pattern, and then 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:55.000 they were required to uh sell that land as settlers 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:58.120 for a hundred and sixty acre chunks for two dollars 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:00.000 and fifty cents an acre. But they found it about 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.000 all that stuff. Man, what's that at that price? All right, 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:05.879 I'll take it. I'll take it. And I think they 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:08.240 felt the same way because they wanted to turn into 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:10.760 timber companies, and so instead of giving it to settlers, 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.679 they figured out a scheme to turn it into timber 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:15.480 companies so they could cut a bunch of trees and 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:17.000 make a bunch of money and just to have like 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:19.760 ghost individuals purchases. Yeah, they go down to the bar, 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:21.640 I think, and get somebody to help them to come 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:23.880 in and buy that land for two lany cents an acre, 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:25.720 and then they get it from him for the same price. Probably, 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:27.600 I don't know what they'd give them an exchange for it. 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:30.159 I'm sure there was some compensation, but then they just 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:33.200 accumulated these you know, mass holding to land and then 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:35.000 you know that county people went to jail for it. 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.720 And then in nineteen sixteen, two point eight million acres 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:41.520 of that land came back to the General Land Office, 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:45.760 which eventually became BLM Land Oregon. In California, lands in 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:49.000 like a southwest and northern California, And if you look 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:50.680 at that on the map, it's a mess and that 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:54.280 stuff want to be in a messy and inexcestible messy. Yeah, 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:56.040 And some of it's accessible because there's a lot of 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:58.800 timber production in that country where you've got a lot 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:00.919 of timber roads, and so they kind of cut in 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:03.400 and out of the checkerboard patterns. So not all checkerboard 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:07.920 lands are inaccessible, right, especially like in timber country where 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:12.080 oftentimes a four service will own a road easeman across 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:16.200 that private land onto their own section, and as a result, 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.080 that access is sort of maintained to some of those 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:21.560 sections where those roads exist, but not all. And we're 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:23.120 talking about a lot more. When we say a section, 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:25.600 we're talking about a square mile. So like if you 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:29.120 live in one of the many states that has townships. 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:32.560 Your township is six by six, so six so thirty 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:35.680 six square miles is a township. A square mile is 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:39.240 only six hundred forty acres. But what's the biggest chunk 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:42.720 of landlocked land in the country. The biggest one that 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:45.280 we found was twenty two thousand, two hundred and sixty 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:50.119 four acres in southern Wyoming. Twenty two thousand acres in 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:54.080 one chunk, it's like thirty five square miles. So, without 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:56.879 getting into names, does the dude who owns some of 0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:01.679 this is he just like man, um, I really like 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:06.800 this set up where basically you have access to a 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:11.160 lot of land, you have no tax burden. I'm sure 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:14.600 some dudes are, oh they got yeah. Yeah. Some people 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:17.320 gotta hate that this is a conversation that's going on 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:20.240 right now. They gotta be like, man, I just want 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:23.879 to keep quiet, enjoy my two acres of land that 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:28.320 I don't pay taxes on. There are like five to 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:31.840 twenty acre parcels all over the place that have no 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:36.359 permanent legal public access And doesn't mean that some of 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.640 them are acre pieces just all over the place. There's 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.720 tons of them. I see where you got it broken 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:45.080 out by state where California has almost a half million, 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:51.200 but then Wyoming far and away three million acres in 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:57.360 Wyoming's landlocked. It's not something you want to win at, dude. 0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:03.960 It's incredible. So how um this has always been the 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.119 case because like one was Bankhead Jones. Again, it was 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:10.480 in thirty seven, Okay, So we started making our problems 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:14.000 around the time they were caught in big railroads like 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:16.639 the Northern Pacific and stuff. Eighteen sixty two with the 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:18.760 homestead X when it really started and people begin to 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:21.880 accumulate chunks of land, and they were just I mean, 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:23.800 if you look at you know, if you a few 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:26.280 hunt right you you're trying to figure out, like where's 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:28.200 that topography where I can go kill Amelie Buck or 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:30.919 whatever in eastern Montana or eastern you know, Wyoming, and 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:33.840 you're looking Often times that public land is like following 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:36.760 a like a little break of a of a stream, 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:39.000 or it's in some bad lands or some coolies where 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:42.240 it's just not good farmland or ranch land. And so 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:44.439 a lot of these guys were they were settling the 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:46.399 prime land and Nevada, they were settling, you know, the 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:48.520 right parian areas where the water was. That's the only 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.840 place there's water, and they're leaving the uplands in public. Um. 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:54.240 The railroad stuff is a real mess in in Nevada, 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.920 but um, you know, in places like eastern Montana and Wyoming, 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:00.840 like it was really about, you know, how is which 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:03.040 land is most suitable for for farming and ranching and 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:06.800 the rest was left public and it's rough, it's rough country. 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:08.280 And so these guys would you know, some people would 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:10.480 be really good at accumulating land and these giant ranches 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:12.320 and they just ended up, you know, having these public 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:15.760 parcels inside their estates. And it wasn't it wasn't inadvertent, 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:19.720 but it happened. So what is your um and why 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:23.760 do you guys explain how TRCP and on X worked 0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:27.080 together to compile information and what the goal of it was. 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:30.240 But what was the thing that initiated the conversation in 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:34.440