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Speaker 1: This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely

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Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything. You're telling me. You're telling me nine

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Speaker 1: point five two nine point five to million acres of

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Speaker 1: American ground, public publicly owned American ground is inaccessible. The

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Speaker 1: people who like to hunting fish and walk around landlocked landlocked.

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Speaker 1: If you added up all the acreage I own, that's

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Speaker 1: four point to five six million times the acres I own.

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Speaker 1: It's a big chunk of land. Dude. Yeah, Uh, how

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Speaker 1: do you put it in terms of how do you

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Speaker 1: put it in terms of like, you know, everybody, when

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Speaker 1: everyone's trying to make something seem big, they compared to

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Speaker 1: Rhode Island. Right, if you want to make something small,

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Speaker 1: you compare it to Texas. But you guys don't even

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Speaker 1: need to do the Rhode Island comparison. New Hampshire in

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Speaker 1: Connecticut right to state combo. Still it's still the dinky

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Speaker 1: states in the East. But still nine point five two

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Speaker 1: million acres of landlocked land in America. Well, isn't yellow

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Speaker 1: still like two million acres. It's a way of putting it.

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Speaker 1: It's like five times that size five Yellowstone National Parks

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Speaker 1: owned by the American people but not accessible to the public,

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Speaker 1: and most of them are BLM land. It's mostly BLM

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Speaker 1: and it's like a Western deal, right, But there's not

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Speaker 1: a lot of landlocked land in the East. Not that

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Speaker 1: what listen, Easterners do not now because this is gonna

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Speaker 1: because we're talking about your ground, your dirt here. It's

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Speaker 1: just far away from your house, I'm sure. But it's

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Speaker 1: in the West. Well, that's what we looked at. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the majority of it is. But I'm sure there's landlocked

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Speaker 1: lands across the nation that we just have them looked at.

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Speaker 1: Can you guys introduce yourselves? Go ahead, John, all right, Sure.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joel Webster. I'm the Western Lands Director with Theodore

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Speaker 1: Roosevelt Conservation Partnership TRCP. I'm based in Montana. I grew

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Speaker 1: up out West and I work across the West on

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Speaker 1: public land issues, so habitat conservation, but also access. I'm

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Speaker 1: Eric stick Freedom, the founder of on x. We make

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Speaker 1: a GPS app that helps people get outdoors and stay

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Speaker 1: safe and stay legal and stay frustrated when they're looking

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Speaker 1: at and when they're looking at landlocked land. Being like dude,

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Speaker 1: but it's right there. I just can't get to it.

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Speaker 1: No matter how I finagle my way around, I can't

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Speaker 1: them that get to it. We're gonna define landlocked playing

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Speaker 1: a minute here, okay, And I'm Lisa Nichols. I'm one

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Speaker 1: of the g I S supervisors at on X, and

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Speaker 1: explain g i S geographic information systems or geographic information

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Speaker 1: science UM basically compiling data that has a location component

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Speaker 1: into a system so that you can make maps from

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Speaker 1: it or run analyzes like this. Okay, And then Mark

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Speaker 1: Kenny from Wire to Hunt's here, Sir, Mark Gills is

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Speaker 1: on a daily basis. I don't know about daily basis.

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Speaker 1: Being in Michigan, you do it a lot. You're just

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Speaker 1: dealing with the R day. Why are you? Why are

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Speaker 1: you trying to knock me down? You gotta be like

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Speaker 1: hourly bro. I was dealing with this like two weeks

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Speaker 1: ago on my white Tail hunt Montana and then this

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Speaker 1: weekend chasing ELK. I wasn't dealing with this all the time,

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Speaker 1: but I was looking at a couple of situations like

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Speaker 1: that on my map using my Onyx maps all weekend.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, very we're we're very well aware of the

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Speaker 1: issue and then jay as poodless, well get anything you

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Speaker 1: want to hell here still here after all these years,

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Speaker 1: So define landlocked man? Like I I think I feel

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Speaker 1: like everybody's cann know because one of my favorite things

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Speaker 1: to talk about is uh, I like to talk about

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Speaker 1: corner happened, how it's right kind of right behind not recommended?

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Speaker 1: Well yeah yeah yeah the day I defind I like

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Speaker 1: my two favorite subjects lately would be like different names

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Speaker 1: for how one loads chew and then um things that

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Speaker 1: make Turkey's gobble, and then corner happened is right up

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Speaker 1: there with it. But but we're we'll get into corner happened.

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Speaker 1: Maybe who wants to take on what a landlocked land is? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So um For this analysis, we were just looking at

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Speaker 1: places where public roads do not provide access to pieces

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Speaker 1: of public land. So certainly there's opportunities to fly into

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Speaker 1: places with helicopters. There's opportunities to access places um by water.

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Speaker 1: When you say public roads, public roads or trails or anything,

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Speaker 1: well just for this was public roads. Yeah, there's certainly

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Speaker 1: places where you could hike in. You know that a

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Speaker 1: landowner would allow you to cross their land, or that

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Speaker 1: there's an established trail and there's a trailhead outside of

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Speaker 1: the land. But for this purpose, for the purpose of

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Speaker 1: this analysis, we were just looking at access from roads. Uh, quickly,

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Speaker 1: what happens that number? If you turn it into that

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Speaker 1: you can walk in across public land. It's just not

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Speaker 1: um something that we could really capture with the data.

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Speaker 1: What do you call NASH what do you call designated wilderness?

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Speaker 1: You can't walk, you can't drive on it. It's not landlocked.

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Speaker 1: We explain the direct indirect analysis. So yeah, so UM,

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Speaker 1: we kind of broke it down into two different categories.

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Speaker 1: So the direct access component would be like if you

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Speaker 1: had a public road that would cross or intersect a

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Speaker 1: peace of public land or actually skirt alongside next to

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Speaker 1: the public land where you could park your vehicle, get

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Speaker 1: out and get right onto the public land without crossing

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Speaker 1: any sort of private property. UM, that's direct access. And

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Speaker 1: then the indirect access component was if you could access um,

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Speaker 1: a piece of public land through another accessible land, so

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Speaker 1: like if you could take BLM to get to force

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Speaker 1: service or vice versa. UM, then then we considered that

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Speaker 1: indirect access and that's not counted in this figure. UM.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, if if you could access it indirectly. It's

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Speaker 1: not part of this number. It's not part of the

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Speaker 1: nine million. And I think trail access across private land

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Speaker 1: to public land with established permanent easements, which we'll get into,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty rare. That's rare. It's pretty rare. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: got you. But Steve to like to your point of

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Speaker 1: can you walk across it? Yeah, if there's a road

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Speaker 1: that touches any piece of that public land, and it's

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Speaker 1: a huge chunk of public land, we considered it accessible

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Speaker 1: as long as there was a public road touching it.

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Speaker 1: Anywhere you could walk across, anywhere there might be trails.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it was considered in the will, not

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Speaker 1: considered in the number of of land law. A million

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Speaker 1: acre parcel with one roil to the corner that would

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Speaker 1: be considered accessible. So it's not that you need to

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Speaker 1: be able to drive across, but you can get to it,

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Speaker 1: that's right. Um. So I think actually, if you wanted

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Speaker 1: to look at accessibility um in terms of like terrain right, Um,

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Speaker 1: Like there could be a giant piece of land that

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Speaker 1: has an access point on one side of it and

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Speaker 1: the other side of it's very difficult to access. Um

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Speaker 1: that by is you know that's pretty inaccessible, but that

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Speaker 1: was not counted to this report. So I think you

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Speaker 1: can actually argue that there's a lot more land than

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Speaker 1: this that isn't accessible if you wanted to change the definition.

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Speaker 1: But we had to create a definition. So that's what

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Speaker 1: we did. Can we talk from it, uh? Can we

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Speaker 1: talk from it? Just to help people understand what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about the Dirty Hills situation, because here you have like,

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Speaker 1: unless it's a better case, unless there's a better case study,

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Speaker 1: do you guys not like that one because it's so sticky?

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Speaker 1: I think it's great virchel. Okay, So there is a

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Speaker 1: place in Montana known as the Dirty Hills, which five

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Speaker 1: years ago, ten years ago, whatever it was, no one

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Speaker 1: knew what the Dirty Hills were. But they've become an emblem, right,

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Speaker 1: they become like symbolic of landlocked lands in general. Where

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Speaker 1: you have a acre two acre chunk of ground that

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Speaker 1: has really good hunting on it, has a lot of

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Speaker 1: elk on it, surrounded by lands owned by uh two individuals.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a pair of brothers the own lands

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Speaker 1: surrounding this thing. There's no public access to it, and

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Speaker 1: what kind of makes it one of the reasons that

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Speaker 1: makes it kind of sticky and and interesting is that

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Speaker 1: at some point in time people started saying, well, Okay,

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Speaker 1: if I can't access it by walking in or driving in,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna find a way to start accessing it with aircraft.

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Speaker 1: So some number of people, maybe thirty to sixty people

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Speaker 1: a year, have begun flying in on helicopters or flying

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Speaker 1: in on fixed wing aircraft and landing on old roads

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Speaker 1: to go and hunt this land locked area. And I

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Speaker 1: think on one hand they're making a statement is that fair?

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Speaker 1: And no one hand, they just want to get some

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Speaker 1: good hunting. There's a lot of good hunting. I think

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Speaker 1: it's almost like, um, it's not even civil disobedience, because

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Speaker 1: it's not disobedient. It's like exercising of one's rights to

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Speaker 1: fly in to the Dirty Hills. The way this gets

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Speaker 1: even more interesting as a as a case study, is

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Speaker 1: that the same people that own the Dirty Hills own

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Speaker 1: a bunch more properties, including a property that is has

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Speaker 1: the potential to block vehicular access to fifty tho acres

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Speaker 1: of public land. And some years ago they proposed to

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Speaker 1: the Bureau of Land Management. They came and said, I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you what I'll give you one of my ranches

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Speaker 1: which will open up roaded access to fifty thousand acres

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Speaker 1: of public land in exchange for the two thousand, five

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Speaker 1: hundred acres of public land you own in the middle

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Speaker 1: of my ranch. And the BLM wasn't able to take

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Speaker 1: the deal. I must pay some big balls on that ranch.

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Speaker 1: Well some so when when this ranch that allows the

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Speaker 1: access to the fifty acres, when they enrolled themselves in

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Speaker 1: a public access program, eight hundred public users signed up

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Speaker 1: to access through that ranch. So eight hundred public users

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Speaker 1: use that ranch to access the Bullwhacker Creek drainage, and

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Speaker 1: around thirty people hunt this Dirty Hills section. So there

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Speaker 1: was like competing interests for some people saying it's not

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Speaker 1: a fair swap, the hunting opportunities aren't equal, or it's

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Speaker 1: not a fair swap for whatever. But anyways, the BLM,

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Speaker 1: I think not because they were interested. Because of cost

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Speaker 1: and manpower and other issues with with roads and whatnot,

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Speaker 1: they were not able to to seriously entertain the deal.

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Speaker 1: While are you guys giving knowing glances, Well, I think

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Speaker 1: the reason that deal wasn't entertained is because there was

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Speaker 1: so much backlash from from Montana sportsman in Central Montana.

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Speaker 1: You mean the thirty guys that like hunting Dirfy Hills. No,

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Speaker 1: I mean there was significant blowback from that proposal. What

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Speaker 1: was the I only see the real quick. I only like,

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Speaker 1: without knowing the particulars, it seemed like at the surface level,

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Speaker 1: for what I explained, it seems like an enticing deal.

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Speaker 1: But I haven't dug into it. What makes it not enticing?

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Speaker 1: I you know, I'm not claiming to be an expert

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Speaker 1: on a sort of ball whacker deal. I do know

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Speaker 1: that there was an alternative route proposed, um, you know

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Speaker 1: to access those blm lands we've wanted off canoes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you can also get in there if you walk

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Speaker 1: along ways from a different direction. I just know that

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Speaker 1: there's some folks that are pretty passionate about the dirties

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Speaker 1: and they'd love to hunt it. Um you know, some

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Speaker 1: pretty good all cutting and then there's some big bowls

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Speaker 1: on that ranch around there, and so aircraft. I think

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Speaker 1: part of it too is that, um there was a

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Speaker 1: big you know, legal fight over and now we'll get

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Speaker 1: into Eastman's probably later, but um, you know, there was

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Speaker 1: a route that crossed that ranch that was open to

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Speaker 1: the public and then the Wilkes brothers who owned that

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Speaker 1: piece of property closed it. There was some litigation over

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Speaker 1: that that went to court, and um, the sportsman's community

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Speaker 1: lost people who are involved in that. And so as

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Speaker 1: a result that that route was closed. And so I

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Speaker 1: also think that there's UM a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: taste in people's mouths. Yeah, I got you. There's another one, um,

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Speaker 1: just to give it people another example of what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about. We're talking about struggles over landlocked lands. There's

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Speaker 1: a ranch in Colorado where Joel, you and I have

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Speaker 1: been there. Why are you give an annoying lands? But

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Speaker 1: we're good, Okay. There's a ranch called the High Lonesome

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Speaker 1: Ranch who's in a big legal piss and match with

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Speaker 1: the county in this case where there's a county road

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Speaker 1: that accesses public lands and they're in a protracted legal

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Speaker 1: battle where where the county gets outspent the county or

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Speaker 1: you know, they put forty dollars in the legal fees

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Speaker 1: and it's not I don't know if it's sustainable. They

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Speaker 1: keep getting outspent. But they're saying, hey, man, that's our road.

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Speaker 1: That's an open road. The ranch has a gated They

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Speaker 1: say no, it's not open. We got a gate across

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Speaker 1: it to prevent to prevent people from accessing big chunks

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Speaker 1: of public land. So the point being, these are like

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Speaker 1: battles that are being waited. There's like battles being waged

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Speaker 1: around public land access all the time. And I know

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Speaker 1: that you're not coming out of saying that everything should

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Speaker 1: turn into a fight, because there's a lot of situations

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Speaker 1: where these things can be resolved with willing sellers, willing buyers,

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Speaker 1: there's public money available. I don't want to act like

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Speaker 1: it's all the contentious and nasty and people suing each other,

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Speaker 1: but I'm just trying to raise the idea that there

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Speaker 1: are little battles in the war over public land access

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Speaker 1: that do turn ugly and contentious. And I think those

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Speaker 1: battles are becoming more common as we see a shift

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Speaker 1: in ownership patterns across the West, with you know, new

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Speaker 1: people moving in with a lot of money who aren't

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Speaker 1: from there that maybe don't you know, traditionally a lot

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Speaker 1: of these places are open um. You know, just by

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Speaker 1: knocking on the door helping somebody out on their ranch

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Speaker 1: or whatever, you get access to go hunt their property.

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Speaker 1: And that's changed, and so as a result, there's more

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Speaker 1: and more conflict, and um, I think, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think what's going on in Colorado, I think what's happened

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Speaker 1: in the Crazy Mountains. Um, it's just emblematic of what's

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Speaker 1: happening in today's world. And I think the intent of

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Speaker 1: this project we're working on and then we put together

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Speaker 1: here that was really focused on cooperative solutions that bring

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Speaker 1: people together to help solve this problem prevent that from

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Speaker 1: happening in the first place. Can you give me a

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Speaker 1: quick rundown and anyone on if you had to say,

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Speaker 1: like generally, what allowed um lands to become landlocked? Like

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Speaker 1: what were the mechanisms in place that it seems like

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Speaker 1: a really weird oversight, Right, Well, I think it just

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Speaker 1: happened by the nature of the West and how the

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Speaker 1: West was settled. Um, there's a whole you know, bunch

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Speaker 1: of laws that are tied to I mean, I'll start

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Speaker 1: out with the Homestead Act, right, which in eighteen sixty

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Speaker 1: two was the first one, and there were several where, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, settlers are coming out um from the east

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Speaker 1: and coming out here and getting their hundred and sixty

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Speaker 1: acres and they're gonna make a go at it. But

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Speaker 1: that was when you like stake the claim. That's right.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of movies on that, um, and you

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Speaker 1: know that that that's where it all began. But then

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Speaker 1: you know, there were the railroad land grants where there

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Speaker 1: are these individual um attempts by Congress to get these

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Speaker 1: railroads to these specific areas where, um, if a company

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Speaker 1: went and built a railroad, they get alternating sections, so

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Speaker 1: a checkerboard checkerboarded style landscape. UM, you know, alternating sections

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Speaker 1: will be given to that railroad across the lands. If

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Speaker 1: you'd have a you know, one section zoned by the

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Speaker 1: federal government or the General Land Office at the time,

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Speaker 1: and then the other section zoned by that railroad. And

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Speaker 1: they allowed him to be corner to corner, corner to corner.

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Speaker 1: And I know you guys have talked a lot about

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Speaker 1: the access. So there that's like you can, I mean

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Speaker 1: there you can like vividly see the problem. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: there's other crazy stuff too, like during the depression, and um,

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Speaker 1: there's this one thing, this one law that was called

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Speaker 1: the Bankhead Jones Farm Tenant Act, which I find really interesting.

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Speaker 1: It was past the seven and what it did is

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Speaker 1: it bought a bunch of like um, you know, failed

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Speaker 1: farms back from private landowners in places where it just

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Speaker 1: wasn't suitable for farming. People had gone and homestead of

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Speaker 1: that land. It was rough and rocky, and they probably

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Speaker 1: used it pretty hard and it just wasn't proving. And

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Speaker 1: so the federal government actually went and bought that land back,

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Speaker 1: and that went back. Originally all went to them, the

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Speaker 1: four Service, but some of them ended up going to

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Speaker 1: the BLM. And if you look at like the Dakota

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Speaker 1: Grasslands and in North Dakota and South Dakota like that

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Speaker 1: that bad lands country, which is really great meldeer hunting. UM.

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Speaker 1: You look at like the high line in Montana, and

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Speaker 1: then also the lowest town like some of that breaks

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Speaker 1: country right or right right right around it anyway. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then also down in Wyoming and uh in New

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Speaker 1: Mexico and Colorado, there's just eleven million acres went went

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Speaker 1: back to the federalist state that were private, right. And

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Speaker 1: this is all happening and disjointed, and so as long

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Speaker 1: as they're surrounding neighbors stayed solvent. That piece of land

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Speaker 1: in the middle became federally owned but not federally accessible,

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Speaker 1: that's right, that's right. And then there's like you know

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Speaker 1: the notorious Oregon in California sort of railroad scheme where um,

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Speaker 1: there were like three point seven million acres made available

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Speaker 1: um for a railroad company that would build a railroad

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Speaker 1: across western Oregon again in a checkerboard pattern, and then

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Speaker 1: they were required to uh sell that land as settlers

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Speaker 1: for a hundred and sixty acre chunks for two dollars

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Speaker 1: and fifty cents an acre. But they found it about

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Speaker 1: all that stuff. Man, what's that at that price? All right,

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Speaker 1: I'll take it. I'll take it. And I think they

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Speaker 1: felt the same way because they wanted to turn into

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Speaker 1: timber companies, and so instead of giving it to settlers,

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Speaker 1: they figured out a scheme to turn it into timber

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Speaker 1: companies so they could cut a bunch of trees and

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Speaker 1: make a bunch of money and just to have like

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Speaker 1: ghost individuals purchases. Yeah, they go down to the bar,

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Speaker 1: I think, and get somebody to help them to come

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Speaker 1: in and buy that land for two lany cents an acre,

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Speaker 1: and then they get it from him for the same price. Probably,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what they'd give them an exchange for it.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure there was some compensation, but then they just

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Speaker 1: accumulated these you know, mass holding to land and then

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Speaker 1: you know that county people went to jail for it.

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Speaker 1: And then in nineteen sixteen, two point eight million acres

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Speaker 1: of that land came back to the General Land Office,

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Speaker 1: which eventually became BLM Land Oregon. In California, lands in

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Speaker 1: like a southwest and northern California, And if you look

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Speaker 1: at that on the map, it's a mess and that

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Speaker 1: stuff want to be in a messy and inexcestible messy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And some of it's accessible because there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: timber production in that country where you've got a lot

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Speaker 1: of timber roads, and so they kind of cut in

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Speaker 1: and out of the checkerboard patterns. So not all checkerboard

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Speaker 1: lands are inaccessible, right, especially like in timber country where

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Speaker 1: oftentimes a four service will own a road easeman across

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Speaker 1: that private land onto their own section, and as a result,

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Speaker 1: that access is sort of maintained to some of those

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Speaker 1: sections where those roads exist, but not all. And we're

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Speaker 1: talking about a lot more. When we say a section,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about a square mile. So like if you

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Speaker 1: live in one of the many states that has townships.

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Speaker 1: Your township is six by six, so six so thirty

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Speaker 1: six square miles is a township. A square mile is

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Speaker 1: only six hundred forty acres. But what's the biggest chunk

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Speaker 1: of landlocked land in the country. The biggest one that

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Speaker 1: we found was twenty two thousand, two hundred and sixty

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Speaker 1: four acres in southern Wyoming. Twenty two thousand acres in

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Speaker 1: one chunk, it's like thirty five square miles. So, without

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Speaker 1: getting into names, does the dude who owns some of

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Speaker 1: this is he just like man, um, I really like

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Speaker 1: this set up where basically you have access to a

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Speaker 1: lot of land, you have no tax burden. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: some dudes are, oh they got yeah. Yeah. Some people

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Speaker 1: gotta hate that this is a conversation that's going on

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Speaker 1: right now. They gotta be like, man, I just want

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Speaker 1: to keep quiet, enjoy my two acres of land that

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Speaker 1: I don't pay taxes on. There are like five to

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Speaker 1: twenty acre parcels all over the place that have no

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Speaker 1: permanent legal public access And doesn't mean that some of

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Speaker 1: them are acre pieces just all over the place. There's

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Speaker 1: tons of them. I see where you got it broken

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Speaker 1: out by state where California has almost a half million,

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Speaker 1: but then Wyoming far and away three million acres in

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Speaker 1: Wyoming's landlocked. It's not something you want to win at, dude.

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Speaker 1: It's incredible. So how um this has always been the

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Speaker 1: case because like one was Bankhead Jones. Again, it was

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Speaker 1: in thirty seven, Okay, So we started making our problems

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Speaker 1: around the time they were caught in big railroads like

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Speaker 1: the Northern Pacific and stuff. Eighteen sixty two with the

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Speaker 1: homestead X when it really started and people begin to

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Speaker 1: accumulate chunks of land, and they were just I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you look at you know, if you a few

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Speaker 1: hunt right you you're trying to figure out, like where's

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Speaker 1: that topography where I can go kill Amelie Buck or

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Speaker 1: whatever in eastern Montana or eastern you know, Wyoming, and

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Speaker 1: you're looking Often times that public land is like following

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Speaker 1: a like a little break of a of a stream,

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Speaker 1: or it's in some bad lands or some coolies where

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Speaker 1: it's just not good farmland or ranch land. And so

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Speaker 1: a lot of these guys were they were settling the

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Speaker 1: prime land and Nevada, they were settling, you know, the

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Speaker 1: right parian areas where the water was. That's the only

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Speaker 1: place there's water, and they're leaving the uplands in public. Um.

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Speaker 1: The railroad stuff is a real mess in in Nevada,

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Speaker 1: but um, you know, in places like eastern Montana and Wyoming,

390
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Speaker 1: like it was really about, you know, how is which

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Speaker 1: land is most suitable for for farming and ranching and

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Speaker 1: the rest was left public and it's rough, it's rough country.

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Speaker 1: And so these guys would you know, some people would

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Speaker 1: be really good at accumulating land and these giant ranches

395
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Speaker 1: and they just ended up, you know, having these public

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Speaker 1: parcels inside their estates. And it wasn't it wasn't inadvertent,

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Speaker 1: but it happened. So what is your um and why

398
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Speaker 1: do you guys explain how TRCP and on X worked

399
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Speaker 1: together to compile information and what the goal of it was.

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Speaker 1: But what was the thing that initiated the conversation in

401
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Speaker 1: the first place. Well, Julie, you can tell your story

402
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Speaker 1: what you learned from being in d C. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: it is um. Yeah. So one of the things that

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Speaker 1: happened at the beginning of this administration under the Secretary

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Speaker 1: Ryan Zinki of the Department of the Interior is he

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Speaker 1: issued a series of secretarial orders, which are like directives

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Speaker 1: to the different bureaus of the Department of the Interior.

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Speaker 1: And so you've got like the U. S. Fish and

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Speaker 1: Wildlife Service and National Park Service. In the Bureau of

410
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Speaker 1: Land Management the BLM, you know, the largest public land

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Speaker 1: management agency in the country. They administered two million acres

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Speaker 1: and and through these orders, there a couple of them

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Speaker 1: where he directed the bureaus to identify places where access

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Speaker 1: is limited or non existent and opportunities to make those

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Speaker 1: lands accessible. Really, yeah, it's good stuff. That's good stuff.

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Speaker 1: And um, what what did they what do they have

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Speaker 1: in mind there? Because was it looking for ways to

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Speaker 1: spend Land and Water Conservation Fund money or Yeah, I

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00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 1: think they recognize that, you know, public assets access is

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Speaker 1: a huge issue for the hunting and fishing community, and

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Speaker 1: I think they wanted to do something that was beneficial

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Speaker 1: for the hunting and fishing community tied to access. And

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Speaker 1: this is a pretty logical place to go. But what

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Speaker 1: surprised me a little bit is is knowing that it

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Speaker 1: was gonna be that it was going to be received,

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Speaker 1: it was almost inevitably going to be received as adversarial

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Speaker 1: to private landowners. Doesn't need to be I mean, I

428
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: think this is all about being respectful to private property

429
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,679
Speaker 1: owners and and focusing on cooperative and voluntary agreements, not

430
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: forcing anybody to do anything with you, like eminent domain

431
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: or whatever. This is all about willing buyer willing seller

432
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: type arrangements, you know. I think the secretary you know,

433
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 1: and I'll give him credit for this. He has been

434
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: ever since he was in Congress, he's been pretty clear

435
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: about his support from land and water conservation, phone, he

436
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: has been pretty good on access um and so I

437
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 1: think on those issues like this is sort of a

438
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 1: natural fit for him. I um. But one of the

439
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 1: things we noticed, and I noticed just you know, I

440
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 1: know West, I'm from West. I've been using on access technology,

441
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 1: you know, first with my handheld GPS down with my

442
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 1: smartphone for years. And just like a lot of folks

443
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 1: who live out here and hunt a lot on public land,

444
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: I've learned how to navigate public lands using that phone.

445
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: And you didn't know how to use a map in

446
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: the old days. Well, I think it's pretty different when

447
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: that's that's why this this is gonna hear me out.

448
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: That's why I hate on X because it used to

449
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 1: be that you had to have special secret e skills

450
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: to find how to get into places now anyone. So

451
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 1: it's like how I hated the Internet because I was

452
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 1: good in the library and then all of a sudden

453
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: they made information just available to everyone, and I'm like, man,

454
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: now I lost my advantage and on X. Yeah, it

455
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: lets you get to walk around and look at the

456
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: landscape and understand it in a large scale sense easily.

457
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: That's fair. It makes you Yeah, I'm joking about not

458
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: like it. I'm just saying, like it was like when

459
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: we used to drive around with like stacks of maps

460
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 1: trying to put these complex puzzles together of how to

461
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,360
Speaker 1: get into these hard to reach places. It's just at

462
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: your fingertips. Some of them are hard though, Like I

463
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: just know going in some of these places where you

464
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: had a lot of private and you had these small

465
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: slivers of public, and you're trying to figure out, like

466
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: how do I line it up with my map and

467
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: my odometer and figure how I can hit that hundred

468
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: yards shot where that public land hits that public road

469
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: where I know I can get on there. And you

470
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: get there and there's no survey markers, there's no fence

471
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: and delineate it and I'm just like, I'm not gonna risk.

472
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 1: We would bail. We would bail all the time on

473
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 1: missions like that, because the minute you hit a fence

474
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 1: that doesn't like line up with your understanding. I don't

475
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: like to hunt looking over my shoulder. So when we

476
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: used to try to do things off paper, um, it

477
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: didn't give you the certainty because we had this conversation

478
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: there day where we're using on x LK hunting and

479
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 1: we're showing a property boundary and the fence. In the

480
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,880
Speaker 1: old days, I would have viewed this fence as being

481
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: inviable right a line fence clearly not on the line.

482
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: And then the more you look at it more, you

483
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: can see that they ran the fence just in what

484
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: looked like good suitable place to run defense. But the

485
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: fence didn't conform at all to the property line. And

486
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: the old days would to be like, well, the fence

487
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 1: knows better than me, and I would have just let

488
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: the fence win the argument. And now you kind of

489
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: look and there's another way to there's like, you know,

490
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: there's an extra data point to put in there when

491
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: you're trying to figure out where you're at. I don't

492
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,239
Speaker 1: want to sidetrack too much. Are you guys are one

493
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: of the few that actually knew how to use those

494
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: paper maps to to do those things. That's why we

495
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: wanted to That's one of the reasons we went to

496
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: the Department of the Interior and to d C too

497
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: educate them on how hunters and the public are actually

498
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: using technology to help access any type of public land

499
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: and if it's accessible, the public is finding a way

500
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: to access even in the case of air flight in

501
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: the dirty Hills, they if it's accessible by some legal means,

502
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: they're going to get there, so because they know about it.

503
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 1: When you are evaluating acquisition and disposal of public land,

504
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,719
Speaker 1: make sure you take access into consideration. That was one

505
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: of the big things that Jewel wanted to make sure

506
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: everybody understood in DC. I also didn't want them to

507
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: only be looking at putting in new trailheads with big

508
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: parking lots and toilets, like developed facilities that are really costly.

509
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: And I think you look back to like, you know

510
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: what you think about the way that the public access

511
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,719
Speaker 1: is public lands. Right, we drive up to the trailhead,

512
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: we park our car, I go used to pit toilet.

513
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: We might have a picnic there and then you can

514
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: hike in on the trail, right. And I think there's

515
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: a lot of people who still think that that's how

516
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: everybody accesses public lands. And that's that's a good point,

517
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: because we even use the term trailhead in the absence

518
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: of trailheads, it's kind of means sort of like where

519
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 1: I started to walk. Yeah, yeah, And and one of

520
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: the things that we were I was really worried about

521
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 1: in particular, are just you know, you got folks back

522
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: in d C. They're looking at how to provide access

523
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: right and they've got this big chunk at two million

524
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: acres of public land UM, and they're gonna be very

525
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: likely trying to figure out how to create another access

526
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: point on that instead of thinking about what about this

527
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: five thousand acre chunk over here UM that has awesome

528
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: hunting UM opportunities potentially UM, but it's lower profile, it's

529
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: not a sexy but it's really UM purposefully important And

530
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: and that's something that I think this project feeds into

531
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: in terms of this report UM, but also that visit

532
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: is just really trying to help direct their work. We're

533
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: really trying to help them focus on the fact that

534
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: they should be looking at these smaller chunks that you know,

535
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: I mean, heck, five ten square miles, if you could

536
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: buy forty acres to tie that to a road or

537
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: buy buy an easement, you could open that up to

538
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: the public. It's not that expensive. It's pretty actually pretty inexpensive.

539
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: And that's a huge amount of land you just opened

540
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: up for everybody to go use and doesn't require a

541
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: toilet and a parking area and you know, maintenance and

542
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: all that. So basically like advising on how to get

543
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: kind of more bang for the buck on public access,

544
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: that's right, but also to not ignore these lands either,

545
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: which I think historically people haven't been looking at them

546
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: because this technology didn't exist. People thought that they couldn't

547
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: be accessed, and so people have been ignoring them for

548
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: a really long time. And that's changed in recent years

549
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: and we're we're trying to help drive that change. So

550
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: what was the moment when what was the moment when

551
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: when like a nonprofit and a tech company decided to

552
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: like come together around an idea. Well, we had I

553
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: guess that was late seventeen. As a company, we had

554
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: defined for ourselves a company purpose to give back to

555
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: access related causes. Because that's why what's what made our

556
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: company what we are today. We we show people where

557
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: you can go in the outdoors, so we wanted to

558
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,479
Speaker 1: give back to that, so we defined a company purpose

559
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: for getting back to access related causes. Starting started to

560
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: look around. And that's when by who knows what, higher

561
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: power Jewel shows up on her doorstep and says, hey,

562
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: I've got this problem. You would you mind coming to

563
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: d C and talking about how technology helps people access

564
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: these public lands in eastern Montana and random But but

565
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: at that point you hadn't started to put together all

566
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: the information, right, So because we made that, we started

567
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: to can this presentation for d C and then we're like, oh, Joel,

568
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: we were talking about, let's let's present like a use

569
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: case of eastern Montana how many landlocked public lands that

570
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: there are, so we can give them an idea of

571
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: the scale of the issue. And we did that and like, well,

572
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: now we got LDBCF coming up, why don't we do

573
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: a full analysis and I get the whole picture of

574
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: the western landlocked public lands? So is this analysis more

575
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 1: exhausted than anything that the FEDS have put together? If

576
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: I haven't seen anything else like it? And part of

577
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: the reason I think this happened is because the FEDS

578
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: have expressed and interest in this, Like we've been done

579
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: and sat with not only with the Interior officials about

580
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: this at the Department of the Interior, we sat down

581
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: with Beer of Land Management staff and and they're like,

582
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: we've been directed to figure out, you know, where these

583
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: inaccessible lands are, and we're trying to figure out exactly

584
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: what we're gonna do here, and we're just looking at

585
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: each other like, well, maybe we can help with this.

586
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: Well I don't think they necessarily can, because our team

587
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: has done a ton more to actually look at the

588
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: public lands compare them with the parcel data, and they

589
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: will We'll use those BLM data sets that say this

590
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: is public, this is private, and they'll have all these

591
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: errors in it, and we compare that with the tax

592
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: records and it says there's an owner that you say

593
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: this is BLM land, but there's actually an owner on it,

594
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: so there's a conflict there, and we determine that actually

595
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: it is privately owned. So we actually have done that

596
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: across the West, across a lot of the US to

597
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: make the most accurate picture of land ownership, which our

598
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: customers really love. Ninety three is BLM land landlocked acreage

599
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: belongs to BLM. That's right. So that's what you're primarily

600
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: having a conversation with. And I think there's certainly other

601
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: access challenges with Forest Service land. But because of the

602
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: way that, like the Forest Service was established, right with

603
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: these forest reserves of people like Theodore Roosevelt setting them aside,

604
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: or the refuge system or the parks, right, those are

605
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: identified areas of importance that were set aside a long

606
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: time ago because people are like these are special be

607
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: a M lands kind of happened by accident in a way,

608
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: although I have to admit there, like some of my

609
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: favorite hunting and fishing countries, I love them. I love

610
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: them like I love I really like them because I

611
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: feel that I'm BLM land. You get the greatest sense

612
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:18,959
Speaker 1: of sort of the greatest sense of kind of freedom

613
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: and also the greatest sense of in a weird way

614
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: oftentimes like an exclusivity where there's just always like BLM

615
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: kind of like HIGHI holes out there, you know, like

616
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: not very visited places. I think that that you know,

617
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,479
Speaker 1: the national forces by the mirror fact of being national

618
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: forests generates some amount of user awareness, but there's just

619
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: like some BLM lands, you get out there and you

620
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: just feel like you could sit there a month and

621
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: nothing's gonna change. You know. They're also great for a

622
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: Western style hunting and if you like to sit behind

623
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: a spotter and glass things up from a mile away. Now,

624
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: am I correct? This is just federal lands you guys

625
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 1: looked at. That's right. Do we have any idea of

626
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: what the quantity of state lands might be their land

627
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: left because I've run across a lot of that too.

628
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: That's a good question. Yeah, So we just were looking

629
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: at federal lands because UM, state and local land have

630
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 1: so many different uses. So there's a lot of times

631
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: where state lands are to generate revenue for the state.

632
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 1: Same thing with you know, municipal lands county and city

633
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: lands UM and so they might not the state and

634
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 1: municipal lands might actually not be for public use UM.

635
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:29,919
Speaker 1: And so in order to do this sort of standardized

636
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: analysis across all thirteen states, we we just limited it

637
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: to UM the federal land for the output. But if

638
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: there was a way to cross state land that was

639
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: open to access federal land, we did include UM, or

640
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: rather we didn't include that in the total landlocked acreage

641
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 1: figures and it's just a time thing. I mean, r

642
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: g AS teams mainly focused on creating accurate landownership and

643
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: updating landownership. So I had sprung this on him after

644
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: the whole years plan was out there, and they graciously

645
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: took it on and did a great job and put

646
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: an extra time to make it happen. And it's that

647
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: if you had to guess where is state land at,

648
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: if you had to take a wild stab at the

649
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:19,240
Speaker 1: total for all I got, God, I have percented, like, Okay,

650
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 1: here's here's what I like to do. Tell me that

651
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: you'd be surprised if it was less than X and

652
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: surprised if it was more than X. Why. I have

653
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 1: no idea how to answer that. I told you, if

654
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: I told you, you know what, there's only one section

655
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: of landlocked state land in the American West, would that

656
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: surprise you that that's not true? Okay? If I told

657
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:49,439
Speaker 1: you there is a billion acres, So we're getting closer. Now,

658
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: Let's say I came to you and said, a hundred

659
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 1: thousand acres of state land, it's only a hundred thousand

660
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: acres across these all thirteen states. Hundred thousand acres I

661
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: think still be higher than so it's a sizeable. I

662
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: think it's pretty high. I mean, if you look at

663
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: the way that the states for granted land, they received

664
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: two sections per township, and so they're like randomly situated

665
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: in the landscape. I think I saw and I'm I'm

666
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 1: pulling from memory here, so it might be slightly off

667
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: on the acreage, but I think Montana that d NRC

668
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 1: did an evaluation and they found one point two million

669
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 1: acres in the state of Montana state lands were landlocked.

670
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, And I mean you think about it, You've

671
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: got you've got these you know, these these sections, right

672
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: and and it was at sixteen and thirty six. Is

673
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: that I think the two sections that of every township

674
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 1: were given to the states and UM as a result

675
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: of that, like they're just randomly placed on the landscape,

676
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: and oftentimes they'll be in holdings right on National forest

677
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: or BLM land, but oftentimes two they're just stuck right

678
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: in our and some of them are inside national parks too. UM.

679
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: And so it's kind of a mess. And I know that,

680
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: UM there's certain states that are working on trying to

681
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: address that issue, but it's the whole again, historical way

682
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: in which the lands are allocated has resulted in this situation.

683
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: When I started whitetail hunting in Montana a few years

684
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: ago on public land, I was trying to find spots

685
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: like this, some decent public land. I was in a

686
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: river valley where there's much state land. Found some stuff

687
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: that looked like it had road access to it. I

688
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: was really excited. Showed up there and there's no trespassing

689
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: signs on the roads that come right off the main

690
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 1: county road, like ten yards in and so confusingly, this

691
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: show's public land on the map. I was looking at

692
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: a paper map at this point. I'm like, this shirt

693
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 1: looks like public So I wasn't sure. They called local

694
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 1: game war ner, whatever official it was, whatever office. I

695
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: can't remember who I called. But turns out that neighbor,

696
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 1: a rancher through there, bought the railroad line that runs

697
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: right along the side of that blocked all the road

698
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: access to this. Several state parcels that were right there

699
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: along the road, but just a five yard wide railroad

700
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:06,439
Speaker 1: or ten yard wide past Eastman or whatever that. When

701
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: we were verifying some of these parcels, you know, one

702
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 1: of the things, um that Lisa and her team did

703
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,280
Speaker 1: is they they flagged about sixty parcels that were big

704
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 1: they had what they called questionable access and so there

705
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,800
Speaker 1: were like identified two tracks crossing ranches onto these public

706
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: parcels and we weren't sure whether or not they had

707
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: access or not. And so um she handed that over

708
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: to the TRCP team and we put this out to

709
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: our field reps, who then reached out to like the

710
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: BLM and for A service lands and realty specialists, and

711
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,879
Speaker 1: they reached out to the county recorders and we're trying

712
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: to figure out whether or not there were Eastmans to

713
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: these parcels and it was actually, um, pretty astounding how

714
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: few there were. Um. But one of the things we

715
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: found was also these these crazy railroad lines like running

716
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: through these parcels that separated them and stuff, and it's

717
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 1: just like, what's going on here? And I wasn't I

718
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: didn't I wasn't aware that they actually owned that land.

719
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,439
Speaker 1: I figured they just you known, their tracks on top

720
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: of it. But yeah, it's kind of crazy. So what

721
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:08,879
Speaker 1: was the process of compiling all the information and who

722
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,240
Speaker 1: did you decide? Who do you decide then to present

723
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 1: it to? Uh? So you know, one of the advantages

724
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: that we had coming into this UM. You know, as

725
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 1: on X we we already had a lot of this

726
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: data compiled for our products. So, like Eric was saying, UM,

727
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: you know, we could have just used the public land

728
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 1: data sets directly from the public agencies, but those are

729
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: typically generalized boundaries, and so to really drill down to

730
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 1: the scale of analysis, we had to use data that

731
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 1: had already been reconciled with the private parcel data UM.

732
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: So we already had that done UM. So that gave

733
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: us a finer scale to work with. And then UM,

734
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: you know, the second step was to really define landlocked.

735
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: As we said, you know, there's certainly places where you

736
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 1: can access it from water, from the air, from hiking in.

737
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: But in order to really address this large scale thirteen

738
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: state area western half of the United States practically, UM,

739
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: we had to we had to normalize what we were

740
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: going to call accessible UM and and so that's when

741
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 1: we decided to just look at road access. And then

742
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: from there we had to decide what was a public

743
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: road versus a private road. But there's no national data

744
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 1: set for public versus private road. Most road data sets

745
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: that are available UM are classified according to um, you know,

746
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 1: whether it's an interstate highway, a county road, or surface

747
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: type pavement versus dirt versus gravel. So there's no classification

748
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: in these data sets. So UM our in house road

749
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 1: data expert sort of advise that we do. We define

750
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: a public road as anything that's maintained at the county

751
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: level or higher, and then some for service road classifications.

752
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: So once we pulled that data, we were able to

753
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: look at UM, you know, a road right of way

754
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: standard width, and then we we looked at where those

755
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: UM road right of ways crossed the public lands, and

756
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: then we were able to factor in UM through using

757
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: the magics of g I S the indirect access as well.

758
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 1: And then anything that essentially uh the road right of

759
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: way across the public land, we gave it a flag.

760
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 1: So every single record of public land got a flag

761
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: as either landlocked or not landlocked. And then we had

762
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 1: a script that or you know, an algorithm that would

763
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: add all that up by state and by agency, and

764
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: that's how we came up with these numbers. When you

765
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: when you guys were doing this, were you doing it

766
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 1: because you wanted to make the public aware of the

767
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: magnitude I'll call it a problem. I don't know if

768
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: you use that word you want to make the public

769
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: aware of the magnitude of the problem, or you're doing

770
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 1: it because you felt that it would be useful for

771
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 1: land management agencies too have all this at their fingertips. Both.

772
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: It's also trying to help get the land Trust to

773
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: to help them address the issue. But um, I mean,

774
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 1: I think the tool to solve this problem, at least

775
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 1: in terms of voluntary means of people working together, there

776
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: is a land and Water Conservation Fund which uses none

777
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: of you've talked about this on the show, but whole

778
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 1: lunch man, Yeah, uses that revenue. Talk about it more,

779
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: all right, real quick uses revenue from offshore oil and

780
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: gas development. Um. And then there's basically there's a Congress

781
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: it's a federal program where it's been around since nine

782
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: and every yearllion dollars go from offshore oil and gas

783
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 1: receipts and go into a trust fund. Back up on

784
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 1: that a little bit, because offshore stuff is owned. Offshore

785
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: oil leases are are federal oil EIAs. Is that they're

786
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 1: not individually owned, that's right, and they have to pay

787
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: their energy companies at the point pay royalties on those

788
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: the US government and the Land and Water Conservation Fund

789
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: like earmarks, gets a portion of those. And in every county,

790
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 1: now here's a not western thing. Every single county in

791
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 1: the United States of America has had a land and

792
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: water conservation project baseball fields, municipal swimming pools, boat launches

793
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: on up to you know, major major access points in

794
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 1: the in the large parcels of previously landlocked stuff. It's

795
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: like the key I mean, it is the key driver

796
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 1: for public access. That's right, everything recreation, and like half

797
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 1: of it goes to the states and local governments and

798
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 1: half of it goes to federal programs for the most

799
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 1: part in recent years. Um, I want to talk about

800
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 1: talking loans around this subject real quick, get into what's

801
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: going on with it. Yeah. Sure. So the program UM

802
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 1: is currently scheduled to expire on September thirties. So I

803
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 1: imagine bout time this show airs, UM, this program will

804
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: have expired, the authorization will be gone because they throw

805
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: a little it's meant to like initially it was funded,

806
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: it had like decades, right, twenty five years, Yeah, and

807
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 1: then then they kind of like through like a lifeline.

808
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,919
Speaker 1: Yeah I got and no one can even explain why

809
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: it's controversial. Well, it's it's like the one thing that

810
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: like senators seem to agree on. It's not anymore so

811
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 1: on sept Um Chairman Bishop, Rob Bishop, you had on

812
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,879
Speaker 1: your show. Um, you know he helped. He worked out

813
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 1: a deal with Democrats with Khovan that committee and they

814
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,800
Speaker 1: moved a bill out of committee. That's great. Um, it's clean.

815
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 1: It uh actually increases funding for access acquisition. Um, it's

816
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 1: a fantastic bill. And I know you know he was

817
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 1: on your show and he floated the idea. It was interesting,

818
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:47,919
Speaker 1: the Land and Water Conservation Fund dollars should be used

819
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 1: to train oil field engineers. He's done the right thing

820
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 1: here and I want to give him credit for that

821
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, and that part of it didn't make

822
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,919
Speaker 1: it in there. That's right. And um they did. They

823
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 1: did right by Sportsman too by increasing the access allocation.

824
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: And let me explain something real quick. UM. So LBCF

825
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 1: has been around since nineteen This is one of things

826
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: we discovered this project. Um, but it wasn't until you know,

827
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 1: two thousand twelve that they actually specifically started to specifically

828
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 1: direct money to public access. And so what we found

829
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: is is when we're putting this report together, we wanted

830
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: to find some like great case studies right and of

831
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: public access being opened up with l WCF, they've only

832
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 1: been funding the public access piece of it for six years.

833
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: And so while there's some good checkerboard consolidation projects that

834
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 1: are from a long time ago, these isolated parcels, so

835
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 1: these chunks like to the checkerboard of the checkerboards on

836
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: the landscape, the isolated parcels are like these individual pieces

837
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 1: that everyone knows about. When we talked about checkerboards, are

838
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 1: you nervous about that, Yannes, I think we should hit

839
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 1: it real quick ahead. You haven't done anything. I'm just

840
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: over here making sure the red light is still on

841
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: and look at it at least every five seconds. It's

842
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: gonna do a guest appear. Imagine to do a guest

843
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 1: appearance and explain a checkerboarded what we mean when we

844
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: say it's all when you come back. I was like,

845
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: how'd you like that new area? And you go, oh, dude,

846
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: it's all checkerboarded in less than sixty seconds. That's my goal.

847
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,399
Speaker 1: So imagine you're looking at the wall with a big

848
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: map on it and then transposed checkerboard on there. And

849
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: let's just say that all the black spots are private,

850
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: all the red spots are public well, and and that

851
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 1: sort of in most states. And you guys correct me

852
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's really been defined.

853
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: In most states. You can't go from red to red.

854
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 1: You can't hop on that corner. So that's what we

855
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: mean by checkerboarded. Only step in the red places, but

856
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:49,439
Speaker 1: you can't cross you you can't corner hop. You can't

857
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 1: corner hop. You can't bring your foot over any black either,

858
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,280
Speaker 1: even if you're only setting it down in the red,

859
00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 1: because the lines are infinitely thin, and all kinds of

860
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 1: other issues. Um, And you can only step foot in

861
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: the red if there's a public road that goes and

862
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 1: touches it. And to even enter the red piece that

863
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,359
Speaker 1: has to have a public road. Is that anything that's

864
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,760
Speaker 1: been broke? Is that an access idea that's been broached

865
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,720
Speaker 1: at all? They trying to get that access corner corner.

866
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: I think you're beating your head against the wall. They

867
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: floated to the idea in a number of places, a

868
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: number of states. It's it's uneasy. It's uneasy. People will

869
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 1: be a number of states people have been cited for it,

870
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: challenged it. It hasn't been solved to really anyone's satisfaction.

871
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: I wonder how much more how much of this landlocked

872
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 1: land could be solved for simply by allowing stepping from

873
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: corner corner, which seems like reasonable public I would say that, well,

874
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:53,760
Speaker 1: with the bulk of it, I would say a large

875
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 1: portion of it. You'd be surprised. Maybe he can plug

876
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: that outgum really real quick, and I'll give you two figures.

877
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: We've had that question a few times, just saying like,

878
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:09,280
Speaker 1: if we just changed the policy on corner crossing, exactly

879
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 1: how many acres would that open up? And um, you

880
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 1: know that's certainly a data challenge right there. Challenge. Yeah,

881
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:20,399
Speaker 1: it's a data challenge, mean challenging. Uh yeah, I mean

882
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: there's places where the corners aren't actually being represented by corners, uh,

883
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: in the actual data sets. And so um, you know

884
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 1: when you look at it, you know, like your human

885
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 1: eye can kind of see that it looks like a corner,

886
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 1: but if you zoom way way way way way way

887
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 1: in the data itself is not actually meeting at a

888
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 1: precise corner. And so in order to define that, it

889
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: would it would. I mean, it's it can be done.

890
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:47,799
Speaker 1: It's just a matter of like, do we have the

891
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: time to really assign someone to every to to explore

892
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:57,760
Speaker 1: every section. Yeah, you're trying to capture things with broad strokes.

893
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: Although although I think she's pointing to the one place

894
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:04,439
Speaker 1: where you can legally cross some corners where they do overlap. Yeah,

895
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: I mean the edges of the surveys. Yeah, if you're

896
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 1: a real if you're a real student of the map.

897
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:11,879
Speaker 1: So like some surveyors screwed up and now you could

898
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: do it. Well, you when they did those township range sections,

899
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:17,720
Speaker 1: but Earth isn't square, so they put all these squares

900
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 1: on there. Occasionally they had to do this correction where

901
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 1: there's either a gap or an overlap. When there's an overlap.

902
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: Once you guys published like a state by state guide,

903
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: they because you would hate us. This is an onex

904
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 1: pro tap right here. Wow, that's that's good. I've seen

905
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 1: in both ways. But yeah, in Colorado, RA used to guide,

906
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 1: we had that exactly. I just kept like coming up

907
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: to this corner that we thought was the corner, and

908
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 1: then we realized that it was actually an overlap of

909
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: ten ft And the next thing you know, we were

910
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:52,879
Speaker 1: just gliding over that. I think. I think if you

911
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: can show the map and how it overlaps, that's the law.

912
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 1: What I think that I don't even want you guys

913
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 1: to win on this because it's gonna be the kind

914
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 1: of thing that makes you give knowing glances to each other.

915
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 1: So I'm just talking to the honest and Mark. What

916
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 1: I think would be a good exercise, just talking to

917
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,919
Speaker 1: honest Mark to have to to put together a sort

918
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 1: of legal defense fund. Let me back up. There's a

919
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: good story about when someone was trying to clarify Montana's

920
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 1: stream access law that they knew that they had a

921
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: way they wanted to challenge it. And rather than what

922
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 1: they challenged it with was a group of women going tubing. Right,

923
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: It wasn't like a guy shooting ducks where he's blasting

924
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:42,239
Speaker 1: shocking off crazy directions and scaring people. It was like

925
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:46,720
Speaker 1: a group of young women on a tubing trip became

926
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 1: the thing to challenge and the legal case to challenge

927
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: and clarify some issue around stream access law. I think

928
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 1: that it would be good marketing, honest to established the

929
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: legal defense fund and have someone go to a place

930
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: where they can they they feel that there would be

931
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 1: a chance do a corner hop and then and then

932
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 1: move it through the courts and have someone voluntarily be like,

933
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 1: I will carry this cross and if if it winds

934
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:17,360
Speaker 1: up that I'm just shocked down, you can easily get

935
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 1: all of our fans and chip in a couple of bucks,

936
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 1: have bucks to start this fund and then just have

937
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 1: someone go in and just see where it leads. If

938
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 1: you really if you went to a state where it's

939
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: in question and just went to see, like, where does

940
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 1: it really lead? If you if you really had the

941
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 1: energy to challenge decisions and then challenge decisions and challenge

942
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: decisions eventually set legal precedent, and then just be interested

943
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,359
Speaker 1: to clarify, maybe you'd be clarified in a way that

944
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 1: you would that would just reaffirm the assumption that it's illegal,

945
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 1: and then you'd be like, Okay, now we know. Back

946
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 1: to our guests, um so I think to your point

947
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:58,799
Speaker 1: to Stephen like um um, it's my mom. I think

948
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: that's the the way this issue is ever going to

949
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 1: be solved is in a court. I don't think any

950
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 1: legislature is ever gonna have the courage to sort of

951
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 1: pick the battles on that issue. I do wonder though,

952
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: I think part of the reason it's never gone to

953
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 1: a state supreme court is I think most judges are

954
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: probably unwilling to entertain it um. And I don't know

955
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 1: how to set up that. I don't know how that

956
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 1: scenario be established, but I just would imagine. I'm not

957
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 1: taking a position on this, but I'm just sort of

958
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 1: thinking about a scenario in my head. Like if you

959
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 1: go to a corner pin, you got your on X

960
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 1: app in your hand, right, and you can you you

961
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 1: walk up, you can see the corners clearly delineated as

962
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 1: other markers on the landscape that make it so you

963
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: know for a fact you're stepping over that um, that

964
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: boundary from public land to public land, never setting foot

965
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: on private land um. And you were able to, you know,

966
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 1: really demonstrate that and document that and then get sited

967
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 1: for it and then you know, go to court, I

968
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: think a judge will throw it out um. And so

969
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 1: how do you actually get a case that's able capable

970
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 1: of going to the top. I don't I'm not don't

971
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 1: not a grounds. But he's not gonna convict somebody for that,

972
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 1: you know, Like he's not going to put you in

973
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: a situation to appeal it, because he's gonna say, yeah,

974
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 1: go ahead. I that is my hypothesis. We've heard that

975
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 1: from someone else, some people with some uh an attorney

976
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 1: in Wyoming was explained that he's looked and he's yet

977
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 1: to found. As much as it's illegal, I hate keep

978
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 1: talking about this, but I do like the subject. It's

979
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 1: a good one. As much as it's illegal. He's yet

980
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 1: to find someone who was actually who had who not

981
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 1: that people weren't cited, but anyone that was actually successfully prosecuted,

982
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 1: they get cited. But when they challenge it back to

983
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 1: our guess um. So I know it makes you uncomfortable

984
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:53,399
Speaker 1: to say that the solution is to have black helicopters

985
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 1: flying and people kick down the doors and seize the

986
00:53:56,680 --> 00:54:00,080
Speaker 1: land and in hand the land back to the American people. Like,

987
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: that's not what we're really after here, right, that's not

988
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 1: that's not the that that's not the way to increase access.

989
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: Despite what social media comments might have you believed. Yes,

990
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 1: we are supporting cooperative agreements to bring people together. What

991
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 1: does one of these look like? I laid out the

992
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 1: one that didn't go anywhere. Yeah, well that would have

993
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 1: been a that would have been a hey check it out,

994
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:25,439
Speaker 1: so let me can I finish my thought real quick?

995
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 1: From before? So there's these isolated chunks, right, and these

996
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 1: are like these ten thousand acre parcels, are these twenty

997
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 1: acre parcels. And they just started in directing money specifically

998
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 1: to access. And before that, when they like scored projects, right,

999
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 1: you were like, you bring a project forward, We're gonna

1000
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:46,240
Speaker 1: acquire this private land, make it for a service or BLM.

1001
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 1: Access was not a part of the consideration. Historically. They're

1002
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,800
Speaker 1: looking at things like ecosystems and you know, threatened species

1003
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: and clean water and so checkerboard stuff generally got in

1004
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 1: because it's sort of tied into that. But these big

1005
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 1: chunks I isolated, like in eastern Wyoming, they were not.

1006
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 1: And so we found through our research that in places

1007
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 1: like eastern Montana where the the Mile City Field Office,

1008
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,239
Speaker 1: so like it's just a big chunk of Region seven, Right,

1009
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 1: everybody's heard of Region seven for meal deer um. It's

1010
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 1: a pilot deer out there, and there's never been an

1011
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 1: LWCF project out there on public land. Same with the

1012
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:26,839
Speaker 1: Miles City Field Office in in Wyoming, and so as

1013
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 1: we're not even aware of any LWCF projects on those

1014
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 1: public land parcels because all that money was being directed

1015
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 1: to where you've got connectivity and and that stuff's really important.

1016
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to like disparage it at all, and

1017
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 1: that stuff needs to continue to happen. Um. However, in

1018
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:46,720
Speaker 1: twelve they actually started directing money specifically for the purpose

1019
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 1: of access, like saying meaning that you would point out

1020
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 1: a thing and be like, hey, if we bought this

1021
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 1: forty acre chunk that's for sale, it would open up

1022
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:02,880
Speaker 1: access to this three thousand acres of that would be

1023
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 1: like an example of what you're talking and the money

1024
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 1: has to be used for that. And so this latest

1025
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 1: bill that just passed out of the House committee, UM,

1026
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: it has up to seven million dollars annually that would

1027
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 1: go just for access. And so this issue is in

1028
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: terms of solving this problem. It's in front of us.

1029
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: It's not something that our grandparents did, you know, like

1030
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 1: the greatest generation they were restoring wildlife. I think it's

1031
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 1: times that's right, that's right, and I think you know

1032
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 1: it's gonna be really the next years is when we

1033
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 1: open these lines up to access. And this program which

1034
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 1: is going to expire on is what we need in

1035
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:41,319
Speaker 1: order to do it. But the car Okay, see now

1036
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:42,879
Speaker 1: there's a couple of balls in the air right now.

1037
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 1: It's still going to expire, but the framework for an

1038
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 1: agreement has been put in place. So just to put

1039
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 1: that to bed. What needs to happen to get the

1040
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:57,400
Speaker 1: l w CF funded in perfect like max funding in

1041
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: perpetuity being the best case scenario. Yeah, I mean, I

1042
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 1: think what we need is leadership in the House and

1043
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 1: in the Senate to put it up for a vote.

1044
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 1: If they would put it up for a vote, it

1045
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 1: would pass tomorrow, but then won't happen till after the

1046
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:13,720
Speaker 1: mid terms. That's right, Well, that's that is our best guess.

1047
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 1: I mean, it's very unlikely. I mean, it seems like

1048
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 1: the House of Representatives is going to be done this

1049
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: Friday until the election, and so we're really looking at

1050
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 1: the lame duck. Is the earliest time that this is

1051
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 1: likely going to happen. I mean, I'd love to eat

1052
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 1: my words, but um uh. And I think then at

1053
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 1: that point it's gonna depend on, you know, how good

1054
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 1: of a night the Democrats have. I think if they

1055
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: do really well, um, that they're gonna be like, well,

1056
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 1: let's just wait until Congress turns over and then we

1057
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: can write our LWCF bill. And so, um, I think

1058
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: there's there's the risk of that, right, Um, but I

1059
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:46,919
Speaker 1: think that there's a pretty good deal on the table,

1060
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: and we'd like to see dedicated funding. So right now

1061
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: they have to appropriate it every year, so appropriators actually

1062
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: have to even though his money and the trust fund,

1063
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 1: they have to every year appropriate it. We want to

1064
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 1: see dedicated funding, so it's just like Social Security or Medicare,

1065
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 1: where every year it just rolls over and appropriators don't

1066
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: even have to mess with that money is in the

1067
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 1: pot and we know it's there. It's not a new tax, No,

1068
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 1: it's not. This has been around since sixty five. That's

1069
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 1: the one people start freaking out about it. It's not

1070
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 1: coming out of it's coming out of there's no problems

1071
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 1: federal oil leases and it's always been that way. It's

1072
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 1: just like what is being used for alright, so they're

1073
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 1: not kicking doors down. Um, there's a path forward. Does

1074
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 1: in your analysis, does it really seem like the best

1075
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 1: solution where we should be putting all of our attention

1076
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 1: is what are we doing with L WCF funds. You

1077
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 1: said that again, I'm sorry. In solving and helping to

1078
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 1: increase access to landlocked lands, is it that Oh? No, Uh,

1079
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 1: the l w CF is just one of many ways

1080
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: that we could begin to address this issue. Or do

1081
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 1: you look at all of the tools and the tool kits,

1082
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 1: so to speak, and it winds up being there's just

1083
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 1: like a hammer and it's the LWC. Of Well, I

1084
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 1: think the LWCF is by far and away the most

1085
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:05,920
Speaker 1: powerful tool and it can do the most. However, there

1086
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 1: are other tools in the box. Um, there's also state potential.

1087
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:11,760
Speaker 1: State programs or existing state programs are gonna help, you know,

1088
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 1: crack at this issue as well, And so I think

1089
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 1: we need to be looking at all options. But I mean,

1090
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 1: you know, twenty seven million dollars every year specifically for

1091
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 1: access in addition to the other projects, they're doing good

1092
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 1: habitat work and benefit access by default, right, So the

1093
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 1: other LBCF projects still do good things for access, they

1094
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 1: just don't do it as their primary goal, and so

1095
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 1: as a result that the money ends up going to

1096
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 1: other places. But I mean, there's nothing, nothing even compares

1097
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 1: to this, because states just don't have that kind of

1098
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 1: money have you guys worked with any nonprofits, because I mean,

1099
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 1: like Rocky mont Olk Foundation has opened up a lot

1100
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: of access through acquisitions. They do great work. Yeah, they've

1101
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 1: got a whole team that's dedicated, i think, to utilize

1102
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 1: those LBCF funds for access. So they have a whole

1103
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 1: team that looks at these projects and the are actually

1104
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:03,520
Speaker 1: making the acquisition because when the landowners willing or they

1105
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 1: have a relationship with the landowner, they've got to act

1106
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 1: on that when the landowners willing, So they have to

1107
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:09,439
Speaker 1: have this coffer of money to be able to act

1108
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 1: on that transaction. Then over the five years will LBCF

1109
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 1: gets approved or however long it takes for them to

1110
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 1: go through the government process of getting the LBCF funds.

1111
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 1: So they do do that work. That's an army F

1112
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 1: to your to your point and to your question, RMF

1113
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 1: does a lot of that great work. And land local

1114
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:28,720
Speaker 1: land trusts would be great organizations to give to if

1115
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 1: you want to see that's another way private funding. If

1116
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 1: we're really passionate about this issue, like hey, pony up,

1117
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: give the Army F give to your local land trust.

1118
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 1: And they're doing that type of work and they're utilizing

1119
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:41,959
Speaker 1: LBCF when it's when they can. A very dear friend

1120
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 1: of mine passed away a couple of years ago, and

1121
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 1: and um his family when they resolved all of his estate,

1122
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 1: they use it to secure a bunch of foot access

1123
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 1: along the Madison through a strategic purchase. It's really cool

1124
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 1: stories like that. So it's it's interesting that the people

1125
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 1: that were looking to do that, you know, what they're doing,

1126
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 1: like those really annoying, annoying fundraisers UM on public radio,

1127
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 1: and they have what's called amplifiers, like someone who matches, Like,

1128
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 1: if you want to spend private dollars for public good,

1129
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 1: it's a great amplifier to buy land that provides connectivity

1130
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 1: to landlocked land, because you might be buying forty acres,

1131
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:31,040
Speaker 1: but you're really sort of you might be buying forty

1132
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 1: acres as a public gesture, but you're handing the public acres.

1133
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 1: You know. It's just interesting when people, like when individuals

1134
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 1: like you know, chip in do my part. Yeah, I'm

1135
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 1: really curious to see how passionate the public is about

1136
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 1: this and will they be willing to donate organizations not

1137
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 1: old in holdings too, like just have been purchased over

1138
01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 1: the years where you'll find old structures and apple trees

1139
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 1: with bears hanging on them about this time of year.

1140
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 1: We have these examples in the report, like beaver Tail,

1141
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 1: the Bearmouth Creek. That thirty month Creek is the only

1142
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 1: example we found of isolated parcels being acquired with l

1143
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 1: WCF funding. It's currently underway and that's UM Western Rivers

1144
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 1: Conservancy who led that one. UM and uh, they've really

1145
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 1: figured out how to use this access money. So that's

1146
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 1: a that's an LWCF story. These are both beaver Tailed

1147
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 1: Bearmouth too, which is a Montana one that's done by

1148
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:33,200
Speaker 1: being done by the Trust for Public Lands. But yeah,

1149
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 1: they're both l WCF funded success stories that open landlocked

1150
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 1: lands to the public and great success stories with cooperating

1151
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: with landowners and getting to the table and talking about challenge.

1152
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 1: Do you feel that it's just gonna happen that the

1153
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 1: I mean, is it like certain at this point that

1154
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 1: the l w CF will get fully funded and that

1155
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 1: it will have the that will have the money, the

1156
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 1: earmarked money for access. Well, I think we need to

1157
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 1: be diligent. I wouldn't take it for granted that it's

1158
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 1: going to happen, But I think if we continue to

1159
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 1: pound the table and say we must have this. I

1160
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 1: think it will. When you were working on this, did

1161
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 1: you ever look and have kind of like a holy

1162
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 1: ship moment where you saw just some little dinky sliver

1163
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 1: of land that was that was you know, like if

1164
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 1: you could like buy an acre, it would have some

1165
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:38,400
Speaker 1: dramatic impact on access issues. It was all over the place. Yeah, yeah,

1166
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 1: for sure, there was some places, you know, just doing

1167
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:45,919
Speaker 1: some quality control work after the automated process ran UM.

1168
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 1: You know, we're zooming in, panting around the map, kind

1169
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 1: of looking at different UM landownership patterns, making sure that

1170
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:56,919
Speaker 1: the analysis as we ran it actually worked UM. And

1171
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: we saw stuff that was like, oh, well there's a

1172
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 1: road right there must be accessible, and zoom in use

1173
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 1: you know, all the imagery that we possibly could to verify,

1174
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 1: and it's like, nope, there's definitely no way to get

1175
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 1: on there without going across private There was a story

1176
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:15,920
Speaker 1: in the in Bugle, the Old Foundation's magazine, about a

1177
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:18,080
Speaker 1: guy that he was going to pick up some AMMO

1178
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 1: or something and had to do a long, unexpected drive

1179
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:24,400
Speaker 1: up in the northern part of Montana and his wife

1180
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:26,560
Speaker 1: picks up one of those His wife or girlfriend picks

1181
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:30,120
Speaker 1: up one of those like little local like wheeler dealer

1182
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 1: magazines where people sell used cars and stuff out of him,

1183
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 1: and she happens to find a piece of land for

1184
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 1: sale while they're driving and they're not even really in

1185
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 1: the market, but like, oh, that's where they go to

1186
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:44,640
Speaker 1: look at it, and it wound up being um and

1187
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 1: it wound up being a blocker to a bunch of

1188
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 1: public access. So that person UM help facilitate and fund

1189
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 1: the purchase of that land, and they put in they

1190
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 1: put in a little trailhead there for a BLM access.

1191
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 1: That's pretty awesome. Yeah, that was just like I can

1192
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 1: imagine the power at your fingertips. But this is just

1193
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 1: a dude driving along reading like a classified add in

1194
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 1: the newspaper and identified stuff. So maybe rather than our

1195
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:19,480
Speaker 1: legal defense fund for the checkerboard case. That's two. I

1196
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:24,360
Speaker 1: think that it would be an interesting thing if um,

1197
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:26,760
Speaker 1: it would be an interesting thing to look at the

1198
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:29,680
Speaker 1: places like you recognize these places where you're kind of

1199
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 1: like these like sort of wow moments of you it's

1200
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:38,840
Speaker 1: so close but not there, and we're able to at

1201
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:41,959
Speaker 1: the same time put something in place to monitor when

1202
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 1: those again, like the willing seller willing buyer model, to

1203
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:48,040
Speaker 1: monitor when those places come up, or to make to

1204
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:52,000
Speaker 1: initiate making offers on those places and just see what

1205
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:56,480
Speaker 1: sort of public support one would get in and and

1206
01:05:56,480 --> 01:06:00,120
Speaker 1: and driving those dollars. What does that initiation look like like?

1207
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:03,959
Speaker 1: So you guys brought this information to d C, right,

1208
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 1: did they do anything with it? They just go, hey, thanks,

1209
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:10,840
Speaker 1: that was that's interesting? Or have you heard any feedback?

1210
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 1: Let me answer that a little differently, I guess. Um. So,

1211
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:20,479
Speaker 1: what we're trying to do is provide information on where

1212
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:23,840
Speaker 1: these big inaccessible parcels are too people who can help

1213
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:26,919
Speaker 1: open them up to cooperative agreements. And one of those

1214
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 1: partners obviously is the peer of land management. But there's

1215
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 1: also land trusts out there, and there's people out there

1216
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 1: who do this for a living, where they work with landowners.

1217
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 1: They sit down over coffee, they're non threatening, you know,

1218
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 1: they want to like work out a deal that works

1219
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:42,800
Speaker 1: for that landowner as well as for the public, and

1220
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 1: can help proker those deals. Those things take years, right,

1221
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 1: you know, you gotta build that trust. And so that's

1222
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:50,880
Speaker 1: how I think we want to use this information, not

1223
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 1: um not create a polarizing fight with some of these

1224
01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:59,840
Speaker 1: landowners because as a lot of people who believe that, um,

1225
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 1: you know, that it should be a right that private

1226
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:04,920
Speaker 1: lewners should have to let them cross their land to

1227
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:08,720
Speaker 1: access these public lands. I know it's not, but we

1228
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 1: also don't want to you know, pour gasoline on the fire.

1229
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 1: And I think Scotland they have right to Rome. Yeah,

1230
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 1: well there's and there's prescriptive easements here, which happened in

1231
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 1: some places, but for the most part, right, I mean,

1232
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 1: you've got a prescriptive easement. So and this is something

1233
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:25,439
Speaker 1: that's you know, playing out in the Crazy Mountains right now,

1234
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 1: where you've got there's not a prescriptive eassement there, but

1235
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:32,880
Speaker 1: you have checkerboard land, um, historic trails that have been

1236
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:35,440
Speaker 1: open to the public for you know, a hundred years

1237
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 1: or whatever. And each state has its own set laws.

1238
01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 1: But if you can prove, like through sort of regular

1239
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 1: and continuous use and other sort of conditions in a

1240
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:46,440
Speaker 1: court of law that you've used that for a certain

1241
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:50,120
Speaker 1: period of time, then you can get directly an easement. Um.

1242
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 1: But it's a pretty contentious process and it definitely um

1243
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 1: you know, puts people, pits people against each other because

1244
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 1: you're trying to codify a sort of loose understanding. Yeah,

1245
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 1: I mean there's historic use there, and there's never been

1246
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:08,480
Speaker 1: any effort to purchase that or sort of get a

1247
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:11,000
Speaker 1: donation of that use like a trail or a road.

1248
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:14,360
Speaker 1: I mean historically right like the BLM or the Forest

1249
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:19,720
Speaker 1: Service you know, did and should have been UM acquiring

1250
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:23,320
Speaker 1: easements across private land where they actually approach the landowner,

1251
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 1: they purchase that route, they get a you know whatever

1252
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:28,720
Speaker 1: right away sixty ft right away across that private land,

1253
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:32,240
Speaker 1: and then in perpetuity it's recorded in that that title

1254
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:35,240
Speaker 1: UM or that deed or whatever that um that that's

1255
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 1: a public route. And in some of these places they

1256
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:39,600
Speaker 1: never did that, and so people are using them for

1257
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:41,680
Speaker 1: a hundred years, that place changes hands and all of

1258
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 1: a sudden it's like, well, we don't like you coming

1259
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:46,800
Speaker 1: on on our property. UM for various reasons, some of

1260
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:50,000
Speaker 1: them are probably legitimate, but you know, obviously people have

1261
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:52,479
Speaker 1: been using that for a long time, and so UM

1262
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:55,160
Speaker 1: it creates a lot of conflict. And that was one

1263
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:57,400
Speaker 1: of the things too, that you know, I think not

1264
01:08:57,439 --> 01:08:59,519
Speaker 1: only acquisitions are important, but we need to really be

1265
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 1: thinking about how we can secure access across these trails

1266
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:04,719
Speaker 1: and roads. Because one of the things we looked at,

1267
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:07,080
Speaker 1: especially when we're doing some fact checking on these big chunks,

1268
01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 1: and some of them have existing routes across that private

1269
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:12,439
Speaker 1: lane on the public and the public is currently using it,

1270
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:15,719
Speaker 1: but there's nothing in law that protects it. And so

1271
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:19,360
Speaker 1: this is we're kind of at the beginning of what

1272
01:09:19,400 --> 01:09:22,640
Speaker 1: could be happening with access being shut down. Um and

1273
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:25,400
Speaker 1: the Crazy Mountains are just a symptom of what's to come.

1274
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:28,880
Speaker 1: I think there's a potential risk with that. And and

1275
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:30,760
Speaker 1: so it's really important that I think there's money on

1276
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:34,040
Speaker 1: the table that people can you know, identify where these

1277
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:37,880
Speaker 1: important access areas are, where we actually have access, but

1278
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 1: it's not guaranteed, and how do we maintain that access?

1279
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:45,000
Speaker 1: And I think buying um, you know, an easement across

1280
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:46,960
Speaker 1: that property is how we do that. And it's a

1281
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:51,160
Speaker 1: lot better approach than waiting until somebody decides I don't

1282
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:53,200
Speaker 1: want you anymore and want you there anymore and it

1283
01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 1: goes to court. I mean that's pretty ugly really and

1284
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:58,640
Speaker 1: um and so I mean that's something that you know,

1285
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 1: we've really tried to bring attention to and something we

1286
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:03,840
Speaker 1: found to this project. It's actually kind of frightening. Um,

1287
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 1: how a few easements. There are things that people are

1288
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:13,040
Speaker 1: enjoying now that could be taken away to Mars if

1289
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:16,600
Speaker 1: if And I don't know what the situation is, but

1290
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:20,160
Speaker 1: imagine there's a lot of private landowners that think that

1291
01:10:20,439 --> 01:10:23,240
Speaker 1: those are public routes and that there is something recorded,

1292
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 1: but there isn't. And if they became aware of that,

1293
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 1: then um, they might close it. And so it's a

1294
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:36,439
Speaker 1: delicate situation. Yeah, it's frightening to think about losing acres

1295
01:10:36,479 --> 01:10:40,920
Speaker 1: and well, and I think some of these parcels that

1296
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:43,800
Speaker 1: we've flagged as being large parcels, some of them have

1297
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:47,720
Speaker 1: some public access. But the way that we um defined

1298
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:51,960
Speaker 1: the landlocked is if if it requires permission from a

1299
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:55,799
Speaker 1: private landowner, then it's considered landlocked. And so if it's enrolled,

1300
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:57,639
Speaker 1: like if that private lands enrolled and like a state

1301
01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 1: walking access program like access Yes and Idaho or whatever

1302
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:03,120
Speaker 1: that that gives you access to that public land, it's

1303
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:07,840
Speaker 1: it's it's temporary access, right, it's not, so it's still

1304
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 1: landlocked in terms of when it comes to permanent access.

1305
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:12,320
Speaker 1: And we also found some places where there is some

1306
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:15,800
Speaker 1: existing public use across private land where those landowners to

1307
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:18,320
Speaker 1: continue to allow it, um, but there's nothing there that

1308
01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:24,040
Speaker 1: protects it tomorrow. Do you guys feel like you'll so

1309
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:27,679
Speaker 1: you did this collaboration and and took this idea and

1310
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:30,840
Speaker 1: produce the report and have presumably raised a lot of

1311
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:36,160
Speaker 1: public awareness. Um, what's next? I mean is this? Did

1312
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:37,840
Speaker 1: you guys walk off the door now and go your

1313
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:41,000
Speaker 1: seven directions and never talk again? Or no, it's just

1314
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:44,040
Speaker 1: the start. We're continue to work with the BLM to

1315
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:48,240
Speaker 1: make sure they define those easements like where where are easements?

1316
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:50,640
Speaker 1: Where are your easements? Not and at least have a

1317
01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:53,680
Speaker 1: data set that says these are easements, here's what we're doing,

1318
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:55,320
Speaker 1: and then we can combine that with our data and

1319
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 1: then say, hey, we should probably look at this piece

1320
01:11:58,280 --> 01:12:00,920
Speaker 1: right here. Who knows the landowner? Who the landowner is

1321
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:02,880
Speaker 1: going to be in the future, and we need to

1322
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 1: maybe secure that access point. Yeah. I forgot to mention

1323
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 1: the federal agencies oftentimes don't know where their easements are either. Um.

1324
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:11,479
Speaker 1: So we're trying to get that standardiz and fixed. I

1325
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:13,599
Speaker 1: think one thing too, We've had a lot of interest

1326
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 1: in land trust community and so um. You know, I

1327
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:19,760
Speaker 1: have been talking with them about some specific parcels that

1328
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:22,559
Speaker 1: are fairly big, but we that's one thing we're talking about.

1329
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:25,080
Speaker 1: Two is how we can provide them with some information

1330
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:29,200
Speaker 1: on um you know, the some most sizeable parcels that

1331
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:31,960
Speaker 1: we think should be a priority for access acquisition that

1332
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 1: they can then go through in screen. But like you know,

1333
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:37,599
Speaker 1: every parcel over so so big a size or whatever.

1334
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:42,720
Speaker 1: Things like that we're talking about, uh at on X

1335
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:48,479
Speaker 1: are you guys? Is it surprising that that you in

1336
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:53,200
Speaker 1: some way not transitions but added on Like originally you're

1337
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 1: just trying to describe the world, right, You're describing the

1338
01:12:57,360 --> 01:13:00,840
Speaker 1: world as it is, and that led to a situation

1339
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:06,639
Speaker 1: where now you're trying to um provide. You know, you're

1340
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:09,519
Speaker 1: inviting the idea of change, right, You're you're looking like,

1341
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:12,599
Speaker 1: here's how it is, Here's how it could be, Here's

1342
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:16,360
Speaker 1: how it should be. Is that a tough decision like

1343
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:19,479
Speaker 1: to go in that direction? I don't think it was tough,

1344
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:21,760
Speaker 1: Just to my points earlier, like we want to be

1345
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 1: able to give back. That's what made our business, you know,

1346
01:13:24,360 --> 01:13:26,840
Speaker 1: showing people here's how here's where you can access, and

1347
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:29,320
Speaker 1: here's the public lands, here's roads across public lands you

1348
01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:33,120
Speaker 1: can park on that road and go walking. Um, so we,

1349
01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:36,160
Speaker 1: like you said, we show people where you can access them.

1350
01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:39,679
Speaker 1: Now it makes sense to give back to making sure

1351
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:42,680
Speaker 1: they keep securing those places where they can access. So

1352
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:46,040
Speaker 1: it's natural because you view it that, Um, it's all

1353
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:51,800
Speaker 1: in service of your customer. Yeah, that's it's it's all

1354
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:54,720
Speaker 1: in service for helping people get outdoors and have a

1355
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 1: great experience. It's good that it's good that you're doing that.

1356
01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:01,080
Speaker 1: I hope it doesn't. Um, I can't see it causing

1357
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:03,880
Speaker 1: any trouble for you. Yeah, there's a little. I mean,

1358
01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:07,920
Speaker 1: we have our landowners, our customers, and obviously the public

1359
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:11,320
Speaker 1: our customers, and we want them. We we believe in

1360
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:14,000
Speaker 1: the cooperation of the two groups to come together and

1361
01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:16,680
Speaker 1: we don't want to see anything to Joe's points of

1362
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:20,400
Speaker 1: forced forcing landowners to do anything they don't want to do.

1363
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:22,760
Speaker 1: It was not really a mechanism for it anyway. I mean,

1364
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:27,120
Speaker 1: landowners have rights. We never heard of an eminent domain

1365
01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 1: project in order to give to open up some access. No,

1366
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:35,320
Speaker 1: but there's a lot of folks who don't know what

1367
01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:41,360
Speaker 1: the law says and they imagine the worst. Yes, and

1368
01:14:41,439 --> 01:14:45,000
Speaker 1: there's people that don't like to lose battles, and I

1369
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:46,559
Speaker 1: think that this will be the last thing I say,

1370
01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:49,400
Speaker 1: yeah on the issue. But um, if you look at

1371
01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:52,400
Speaker 1: you know, I read this piece and outside not long

1372
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:53,920
Speaker 1: I was looking at some stuff along. I think it

1373
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:56,120
Speaker 1: was like the Russian River. I think it's the Russian

1374
01:14:57,240 --> 01:15:02,639
Speaker 1: that there was, you know, for everyone's memory. You could

1375
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:05,639
Speaker 1: canoe the river and get out on the beaches and

1376
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 1: have lunch. And now that's just how it always went.

1377
01:15:09,680 --> 01:15:14,040
Speaker 1: And then like a new class of landowner came in

1378
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:17,639
Speaker 1: and they had an enhanced awareness of not what's happened,

1379
01:15:18,240 --> 01:15:22,280
Speaker 1: but what they could do, and it emboldened some people

1380
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:24,200
Speaker 1: to be like, you know what I'm gonna like, I

1381
01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:27,479
Speaker 1: could make a case that I can shut that down.

1382
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:34,040
Speaker 1: And then that idea became infectious. And so you had

1383
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:36,800
Speaker 1: this river that had once upon a time just been

1384
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:38,920
Speaker 1: like and people were shocked to learn that it wasn't

1385
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:41,920
Speaker 1: actually this way. But someone that had the time and

1386
01:15:41,960 --> 01:15:46,000
Speaker 1: the money could come in and begin challenging public access

1387
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:49,640
Speaker 1: and having some legal wins or at least clouding the

1388
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:54,360
Speaker 1: issue enough to create the necessary level of uncertainty to

1389
01:15:54,439 --> 01:15:58,280
Speaker 1: push people away from using public resources. The story they

1390
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:01,040
Speaker 1: fought that the story they followed the specific story they

1391
01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:04,040
Speaker 1: follow in the article, the guy winds up losing, and

1392
01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:06,479
Speaker 1: in fact, he was chaining off a beach that was

1393
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:09,479
Speaker 1: not his to chain off. But it's kind of like,

1394
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:11,439
Speaker 1: I think that that's the way in which these things

1395
01:16:11,439 --> 01:16:15,280
Speaker 1: get tested all the time. Is you sort of you

1396
01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:17,639
Speaker 1: brought this thing in the crazies too. It's like always

1397
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:19,360
Speaker 1: been how we do it, and at some point in

1398
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:22,479
Speaker 1: time someone comes in and starts pushing and prying on

1399
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:25,160
Speaker 1: that a little bit to see where it leads, and

1400
01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:27,600
Speaker 1: that can lead to access loss. So I think that

1401
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:32,600
Speaker 1: clarifying the stuff and earlier were like codifying and clarifying

1402
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:35,519
Speaker 1: some of these issues is probably pretty important too, just

1403
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:39,760
Speaker 1: to head off future dispute. That's right. And information is

1404
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:43,519
Speaker 1: becoming way more available every day, and so I think

1405
01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:48,599
Speaker 1: because the Internet, that's right, damn Internet it is, which

1406
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:53,360
Speaker 1: is an amazing resource, but I think it also informs

1407
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:56,559
Speaker 1: people of things that they can do that maybe it's

1408
01:16:56,600 --> 01:17:00,599
Speaker 1: not necessarily the interest of public access. And so um,

1409
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:04,839
Speaker 1: we need this money now more than ever to maintain

1410
01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:09,080
Speaker 1: and secure and open access because I think the longer

1411
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:12,280
Speaker 1: we wait, the harder is going to get. Yeah, professionally,

1412
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:15,200
Speaker 1: where I'm at as when I look at an issue,

1413
01:17:16,160 --> 01:17:18,280
Speaker 1: I try to be like, what's in the best interests

1414
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:21,360
Speaker 1: of hunters and anglers? And that's how I make a

1415
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:24,200
Speaker 1: lot of my decisions in life. It doesn't mean that

1416
01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:26,479
Speaker 1: I don't understand both sides of it. It's great to have,

1417
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:30,360
Speaker 1: you know, it's great to have exclusivity, Like I can

1418
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:32,960
Speaker 1: see that, I understand, I could articulate the viewpoint, but

1419
01:17:33,040 --> 01:17:35,080
Speaker 1: I generally look and be like, what's in the best

1420
01:17:35,160 --> 01:17:41,439
Speaker 1: interest of, like the broad spectrum of hunters and anglers.

1421
01:17:41,680 --> 01:17:45,640
Speaker 1: And when I look at that, when it comes to access,

1422
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:49,599
Speaker 1: I'm generally like, generally I believe that there should be

1423
01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:54,479
Speaker 1: more access, enhanced access. That's my general goal in life

1424
01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:58,080
Speaker 1: is to see that happen, realizing that within that there

1425
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:01,280
Speaker 1: will be some contentious moments in the unhappy people. But

1426
01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:06,479
Speaker 1: that's generally where I'm going to lean. Um on any

1427
01:18:06,479 --> 01:18:10,160
Speaker 1: of these case by case scenarios to come up, we

1428
01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:13,679
Speaker 1: gonna say about all that, honest, I like it. There's

1429
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:17,240
Speaker 1: you good job in at checkerboard deal. Yeah. When you

1430
01:18:17,240 --> 01:18:20,000
Speaker 1: think of the revenues brought in from the outdoor recreation

1431
01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:22,960
Speaker 1: industry and you think of like rural communities, if you

1432
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 1: can actually make trail heads and open up outdoor activities

1433
01:18:27,320 --> 01:18:30,400
Speaker 1: for some of these public lands, and you're gonna see

1434
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:33,040
Speaker 1: a benefit to the community in general. And and you

1435
01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:37,559
Speaker 1: see the numbers like seven billion with a b billion

1436
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:41,559
Speaker 1: dollar industry. It's getting Yeah, it's getting close to being

1437
01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:44,200
Speaker 1: the outdoor industry is getting close to me in a

1438
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:53,439
Speaker 1: trillion dollar industry. It'll get there. No, yeah, absolutely, people

1439
01:18:53,439 --> 01:18:56,920
Speaker 1: have to start paying attention to that stuff. That it's

1440
01:18:57,080 --> 01:19:01,599
Speaker 1: a huge sustainable economic driver. That's right, and we'll being

1441
01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:08,720
Speaker 1: able to go outside. It was economically valuable. And of

1442
01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:13,800
Speaker 1: western hunters use public lands for their access. And you

1443
01:19:13,800 --> 01:19:16,120
Speaker 1: think about the fact that there's some of these places

1444
01:19:16,160 --> 01:19:20,679
Speaker 1: where you know a quarter of the lands are land locked.

1445
01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:24,799
Speaker 1: Just think about all that missed opportunity. And also Bucks

1446
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:27,559
Speaker 1: is hiding out there, you know, we were talking about that.

1447
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:29,919
Speaker 1: It's I gonna look at that coolly on that parcel.

1448
01:19:31,439 --> 01:19:36,000
Speaker 1: I bet you got some Bucks in there. One of

1449
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:41,360
Speaker 1: my this is early on X days. I remember driving

1450
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:43,400
Speaker 1: along one time and just like happened. I was driving

1451
01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:45,000
Speaker 1: on my buddy that passed like a couple of years ago.

1452
01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:48,960
Speaker 1: We're driving down the road, um, and I have like

1453
01:19:49,040 --> 01:19:51,040
Speaker 1: look out, we're going Turkey hunt at one place that

1454
01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:53,559
Speaker 1: happened to look out and I'm looking like we're crossing

1455
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:57,960
Speaker 1: this kind of coolie and uh I looked out and

1456
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:00,400
Speaker 1: saw a turkey. I'm like, oh turkey remembers someone going

1457
01:20:00,400 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 1: like it's public, just like slamming on the right because

1458
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:05,760
Speaker 1: like the rest of your life, you just drive baths.

1459
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:07,680
Speaker 1: But now you drive around that thing open on your

1460
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:10,720
Speaker 1: GPS orherever you got your phone. You just drive around going,

1461
01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:12,360
Speaker 1: oh yeah, look at that, look at Oh. I never

1462
01:20:12,439 --> 01:20:18,400
Speaker 1: knew that the little corner comes up and hits the road,

1463
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:21,760
Speaker 1: you know, off you go. Yeah, That's what we're trying

1464
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:26,120
Speaker 1: to make sure everybody understood is that most people probably

1465
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:29,200
Speaker 1: think when they think accessing public lands, they're thinking trail head,

1466
01:20:29,200 --> 01:20:32,000
Speaker 1: They're thinking like this parking area. But that's truly not

1467
01:20:32,040 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 1: the case anymore. Technology. All you gotta do is drive

1468
01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:36,960
Speaker 1: down any road and Western United States tech the whole

1469
01:20:37,080 --> 01:20:39,000
Speaker 1: United States. You can be driving down an interstate and

1470
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:41,120
Speaker 1: not realize the public lan that comes in touches there

1471
01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:43,160
Speaker 1: that you can technically park on the side of the

1472
01:20:43,200 --> 01:20:47,320
Speaker 1: road and start walking the knoks and crannies. Man. Yeah,

1473
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:49,120
Speaker 1: we've got a lot of emails from guys over the

1474
01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:51,320
Speaker 1: years time about all the knooks and crannies they discovered

1475
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:54,439
Speaker 1: right in their neighborhood they didn't know about. Yeah, we

1476
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:56,920
Speaker 1: got a lot of emails from people are like, I

1477
01:20:57,040 --> 01:20:59,120
Speaker 1: used my paper match when you figured this spot out,

1478
01:20:59,200 --> 01:21:01,960
Speaker 1: and now there's more people here, but they're still happy

1479
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:04,439
Speaker 1: about it. I found another spot, So not a big deal.

1480
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:09,800
Speaker 1: And as the rest of the world has less and

1481
01:21:09,880 --> 01:21:12,639
Speaker 1: less of this and just becomes more and more developed,

1482
01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:15,080
Speaker 1: the more we have this stuff and save it. I mean,

1483
01:21:15,120 --> 01:21:17,680
Speaker 1: I just think that like the economic value of it,

1484
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:19,920
Speaker 1: we can't even foresee what it's gonna be like in

1485
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:22,439
Speaker 1: a couple of generations. We look at it as a spot.

1486
01:21:22,479 --> 01:21:24,720
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, it's Sage much Cooley where you can

1487
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:27,040
Speaker 1: find a big buck. I might go there two to

1488
01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:29,360
Speaker 1: four weeks out of the year. There might be someone

1489
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:32,280
Speaker 1: that flies over from Japan in the middle of July

1490
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:34,760
Speaker 1: just to walk out there and go, this is the

1491
01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:36,920
Speaker 1: American West, And that's pretty cool that I can just

1492
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:40,080
Speaker 1: walk off this road to walk into this country. And

1493
01:21:40,439 --> 01:21:43,639
Speaker 1: that person's air flight and then the uber ride and

1494
01:21:43,680 --> 01:21:47,440
Speaker 1: the you know, all that stuff. Just like it's yeah,

1495
01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:49,880
Speaker 1: we just don't know how valuable it's No, that's the

1496
01:21:49,880 --> 01:21:51,840
Speaker 1: point I'm always trying to make. What I'm talking about

1497
01:21:52,280 --> 01:21:57,000
Speaker 1: um land habitat preservation and stuff is uh, people are

1498
01:21:57,000 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 1: always asking, like we were just talking about it's a

1499
01:22:00,280 --> 01:22:03,160
Speaker 1: trillion dollar industry, Like people are always asking that, like

1500
01:22:03,200 --> 01:22:07,240
Speaker 1: it has to justify itself economically, that somehow wildlife habitat

1501
01:22:07,880 --> 01:22:09,840
Speaker 1: And it's like, and I'm glad people do it because

1502
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:12,200
Speaker 1: it's to some people, it's the only thing they understand

1503
01:22:12,240 --> 01:22:14,000
Speaker 1: is the only thing they understand is they got to

1504
01:22:14,040 --> 01:22:15,720
Speaker 1: play dollars to it. So you have to play their

1505
01:22:15,760 --> 01:22:18,400
Speaker 1: game and be like, oh, you want to talk dollars, Yeah,

1506
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:20,479
Speaker 1: I welcome it, dude, let's talk dollars, because there's some

1507
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:24,120
Speaker 1: serious dollars that play here. But on the other hand,

1508
01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:26,640
Speaker 1: you're like, well, yeah, but it's it's not quantified, like

1509
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:30,120
Speaker 1: the value of it isn't quantifiable that way, but in

1510
01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:32,719
Speaker 1: terms of if you do go and play the dollar game.

1511
01:22:32,800 --> 01:22:34,280
Speaker 1: The things that I want up trying to express the

1512
01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:36,160
Speaker 1: people all the time is we don't know where this

1513
01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:39,880
Speaker 1: whole thing is headed. But when you look at globe

1514
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:44,400
Speaker 1: like just the global environment and global news around habitat,

1515
01:22:44,439 --> 01:22:47,080
Speaker 1: you're not reading a lot of stories about all this

1516
01:22:47,200 --> 01:22:54,000
Speaker 1: new habitat that's being created every day. Every day, it's

1517
01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:59,320
Speaker 1: every day there's a net loss. Every minute of every

1518
01:22:59,439 --> 01:23:04,000
Speaker 1: day there's an a loss. So in forecasting out the

1519
01:23:04,160 --> 01:23:11,360
Speaker 1: value of I'm not even talking pristine of open, semi pristine,

1520
01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:17,479
Speaker 1: publicly accessible patches of undeveloped land. You cannot anticipate what

1521
01:23:17,479 --> 01:23:21,760
Speaker 1: that's gonna mean in one years. If you want to

1522
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:27,360
Speaker 1: just talk dollars and yeah, it's shallow existence to be

1523
01:23:27,439 --> 01:23:30,479
Speaker 1: one that can only look at life through through dollar bills.

1524
01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:35,360
Speaker 1: But there are those got any concluders yearning? No, that's it,

1525
01:23:36,800 --> 01:23:40,519
Speaker 1: Mark Kenny. I'm just glad you guys did this. I mean,

1526
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:43,519
Speaker 1: it's it's something that to Steve's point, I don't want

1527
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:45,000
Speaker 1: to be knocking you down, like you said the beginning.

1528
01:23:45,040 --> 01:23:48,439
Speaker 1: I was just dealing with this very issue two weeks ago,

1529
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:53,000
Speaker 1: literally trying to hunt Bucks in Montana. Had this public

1530
01:23:53,040 --> 01:23:55,720
Speaker 1: land I want to hunt. I couldn't get to it.

1531
01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:57,840
Speaker 1: I thought I had permission to cross the private land

1532
01:23:57,840 --> 01:23:59,599
Speaker 1: to get to it. Then a week before the hunt

1533
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:02,400
Speaker 1: found out, Oh no, I can't. Now I'm scrambling what

1534
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:05,840
Speaker 1: happened there because the railroad deal that was three years ago.

1535
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:08,400
Speaker 1: So every time I hunt Montana white tails, I'm dealing

1536
01:24:08,439 --> 01:24:10,360
Speaker 1: with this, I guess. So I had a piece of

1537
01:24:10,400 --> 01:24:12,760
Speaker 1: landlocked public land on the Dakotas. You don't run into

1538
01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:15,640
Speaker 1: this in the Dakotas. In this case, I didn't know,

1539
01:24:16,120 --> 01:24:17,960
Speaker 1: just quite a bit of it though, in the western side.

1540
01:24:19,320 --> 01:24:21,080
Speaker 1: So I go on. But yeah, so I So I

1541
01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:23,040
Speaker 1: had found this piece of public looked great. It was

1542
01:24:23,080 --> 01:24:25,080
Speaker 1: on the back side of some private land with with

1543
01:24:25,120 --> 01:24:28,880
Speaker 1: food on it alfalfa fields, and I thought I could

1544
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:31,679
Speaker 1: access it publicly. Turns out that there's like gray areas

1545
01:24:31,720 --> 01:24:33,360
Speaker 1: around if you can use this river to access it

1546
01:24:33,439 --> 01:24:34,759
Speaker 1: or not. So I was like, okay, I need private

1547
01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:38,120
Speaker 1: land permission to make sure this is Golden had that

1548
01:24:38,160 --> 01:24:40,920
Speaker 1: permission this spring. So I was going to head back

1549
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:42,400
Speaker 1: out this year as a I'm Golden, gonna go on

1550
01:24:42,479 --> 01:24:44,640
Speaker 1: for this hunt. It's gonna be great. And then the

1551
01:24:44,680 --> 01:24:47,080
Speaker 1: week before the hunt, I called the private land just

1552
01:24:47,120 --> 01:24:48,560
Speaker 1: a double check on it, just to be safe, and

1553
01:24:48,600 --> 01:24:50,639
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, no, I got family coming out. When

1554
01:24:50,680 --> 01:24:56,120
Speaker 1: You're like, remember how you were saying exactly, And so

1555
01:24:56,240 --> 01:25:00,160
Speaker 1: now I'm um lost, I have nowhere to go. It's

1556
01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:01,600
Speaker 1: a few days before the hunt. So I was going

1557
01:25:01,640 --> 01:25:04,680
Speaker 1: to drive out there and use my Onyx app and

1558
01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:06,160
Speaker 1: just drive up and down the roads, trying to look

1559
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:09,400
Speaker 1: at some new spots. And so much in this drainage

1560
01:25:09,439 --> 01:25:12,360
Speaker 1: of this valley that was hunting. Almost all the public

1561
01:25:12,439 --> 01:25:14,559
Speaker 1: land that would have white tails on it, which would

1562
01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:17,559
Speaker 1: be along the river was landlocked. So many pieces of

1563
01:25:17,640 --> 01:25:19,960
Speaker 1: land life public all along there, so that I'm like, okay, well,

1564
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:21,439
Speaker 1: I just need to start knocking on doors to try

1565
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:24,200
Speaker 1: to get permission to hunt the public land. And luckily

1566
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:27,200
Speaker 1: I stopped by the landowner's house one more time, just

1567
01:25:27,280 --> 01:25:30,280
Speaker 1: hoping maybe something would change, and after a nice two

1568
01:25:30,320 --> 01:25:33,720
Speaker 1: hour conversation, something did change and I did get that permission.

1569
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:36,639
Speaker 1: And he then says, you know what, my family isn't coming.

1570
01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:38,840
Speaker 1: I was lying to you. I don't think it was that.

1571
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:40,439
Speaker 1: I think it was more so like maybe the date

1572
01:25:40,520 --> 01:25:43,000
Speaker 1: range is off or something. And he's like, oh, yeah,

1573
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:44,759
Speaker 1: so and so probably won't be ou until next weekend.

1574
01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:50,120
Speaker 1: I think I feel like, well, I haven't been there

1575
01:25:50,120 --> 01:25:52,400
Speaker 1: and talked to him. I feel like it was way off.

1576
01:25:52,800 --> 01:25:55,840
Speaker 1: And he was like, it's easier to just it's less

1577
01:25:56,760 --> 01:26:00,280
Speaker 1: this frictionous a word. I don't know you have caused

1578
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:03,519
Speaker 1: less friction. Yeah, to be like, oh yeah, sure, go ahead.

1579
01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:06,040
Speaker 1: Then it's like when people say to me like, hey, man,

1580
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:07,360
Speaker 1: in a year, do you want to go do whatever?

1581
01:26:07,360 --> 01:26:09,920
Speaker 1: I'm I was like, yeah, man, great. Right. Then when

1582
01:26:09,960 --> 01:26:11,519
Speaker 1: it's a month out, I'm like, oh man, what did

1583
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:15,160
Speaker 1: I say? How did I make that happen? I think

1584
01:26:15,240 --> 01:26:20,600
Speaker 1: then when you were coming, he's like, no, no, my

1585
01:26:20,640 --> 01:26:24,120
Speaker 1: cousins coming. Then he met you, He's like, this guy

1586
01:26:24,200 --> 01:26:27,320
Speaker 1: is all right, okay, you only think that was it.

1587
01:26:27,439 --> 01:26:29,439
Speaker 1: I don't care how it happened. I'm just glad it happened.

1588
01:26:30,680 --> 01:26:33,920
Speaker 1: I certainly appreciate it. But I mean it was so

1589
01:26:33,960 --> 01:26:37,400
Speaker 1: that that that big white tail Bucky got public line

1590
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:41,639
Speaker 1: near this place. Yeah, that's where he gets kill it. Yeah,

1591
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:45,960
Speaker 1: but accessed through private accessed by a river. So that's

1592
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:47,920
Speaker 1: a whole weird thing, but it should be. It's a

1593
01:26:47,920 --> 01:26:50,519
Speaker 1: public river, like the stream access laws allow me to

1594
01:26:50,560 --> 01:26:54,599
Speaker 1: walk it and fish it, but to be super safe,

1595
01:26:54,760 --> 01:26:57,160
Speaker 1: I also had to get permission to do that because

1596
01:26:57,200 --> 01:26:59,880
Speaker 1: I was accessing this public the other river to hunt.

1597
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:02,920
Speaker 1: And I've heard people saying there's some weird things around

1598
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:05,240
Speaker 1: that have what picked this up late? Because I've never

1599
01:27:05,280 --> 01:27:08,720
Speaker 1: don't can you explain that if you want me to.

1600
01:27:09,040 --> 01:27:11,160
Speaker 1: I've been trying to get clarification on this myself and

1601
01:27:11,200 --> 01:27:14,920
Speaker 1: I can't. I have never heard of so I know

1602
01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:19,040
Speaker 1: in Montana, you know, you're allowed to use you know,

1603
01:27:19,040 --> 01:27:21,800
Speaker 1: blow the high water mark for fishing, but you're not

1604
01:27:21,920 --> 01:27:23,800
Speaker 1: and you're allowed to use it for water fowl, honey,

1605
01:27:24,320 --> 01:27:26,200
Speaker 1: you're not allowed to use it for big game hunting.

1606
01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:29,080
Speaker 1: And so if you go below the below the high

1607
01:27:29,080 --> 01:27:32,880
Speaker 1: water mark and walk up a stream to access public land,

1608
01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:37,320
Speaker 1: it's your rifle over your shoulder. You're technically trespassing. Um.

1609
01:27:37,360 --> 01:27:40,040
Speaker 1: There's an exception to this though that once you jump

1610
01:27:40,040 --> 01:27:42,960
Speaker 1: out on the land, you're fine. You're not supposed to

1611
01:27:42,960 --> 01:27:46,000
Speaker 1: cross that private land even if you're below the high

1612
01:27:46,040 --> 01:27:48,720
Speaker 1: water mark that I have been told, though, the way

1613
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:50,559
Speaker 1: to get around that is to bring your fly right

1614
01:27:50,640 --> 01:27:55,040
Speaker 1: or your fishing rod or whatever. And when you leave

1615
01:27:55,080 --> 01:27:57,679
Speaker 1: the public land and go down um into the stream,

1616
01:27:57,880 --> 01:28:00,320
Speaker 1: you walk with your gun packed up in your backpack

1617
01:28:00,439 --> 01:28:02,560
Speaker 1: or whatever, and can you fish your way up the

1618
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:05,479
Speaker 1: stream when you get to the public land, then you

1619
01:28:05,520 --> 01:28:08,240
Speaker 1: can lose your fishing pole and grab your gun. And

1620
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:10,920
Speaker 1: I'm getting uncomfortable because I feel like we're entering into

1621
01:28:10,960 --> 01:28:14,280
Speaker 1: an area where something's not right. I've been told by

1622
01:28:14,280 --> 01:28:16,240
Speaker 1: a game warden. I've been told by a game ward

1623
01:28:16,240 --> 01:28:18,680
Speaker 1: And that's how you do it legal La Montana. But

1624
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:21,880
Speaker 1: you certainly can float down. That's one of the methods

1625
01:28:21,880 --> 01:28:23,840
Speaker 1: that we talked about at the Department Interior. You can

1626
01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:25,680
Speaker 1: float down the river to a piece of public lane

1627
01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:28,400
Speaker 1: and get out. You're just talking about like being on

1628
01:28:28,439 --> 01:28:32,160
Speaker 1: the river. Think what you're saying. Think about what you're saying.

1629
01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:36,599
Speaker 1: We'll say, I'm on the Mississippi River, okay, and I'm

1630
01:28:36,600 --> 01:28:40,240
Speaker 1: floating down the Mississippi River and on I mean, you

1631
01:28:40,240 --> 01:28:43,720
Speaker 1: know wherever Mark Twain's old Stomper grounds, flowing on the

1632
01:28:43,720 --> 01:28:47,360
Speaker 1: Mississippi River. I got private land on each side. But

1633
01:28:47,400 --> 01:28:49,960
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, well here I am at

1634
01:28:49,960 --> 01:28:53,360
Speaker 1: the I'm down by the Daniel Boone National Forest, and

1635
01:28:53,400 --> 01:28:57,760
Speaker 1: I hop out of my canoe and and go hunt

1636
01:28:57,760 --> 01:29:00,479
Speaker 1: and be like, oh nobody. Because you've passed through land

1637
01:29:00,479 --> 01:29:03,920
Speaker 1: in your canoe, you're now ineligible to access public property.

1638
01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:05,800
Speaker 1: So it's a state law issue first off, So I

1639
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:08,559
Speaker 1: don't know what's going on down there. Um, but I

1640
01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:12,280
Speaker 1: when I'm referring to as somebody like waiting. I I

1641
01:29:12,320 --> 01:29:14,080
Speaker 1: don't know how that changes if you're in a boat

1642
01:29:14,080 --> 01:29:16,479
Speaker 1: and you do not touch at the bottom. But it's

1643
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:19,559
Speaker 1: every state's access laws are different. Every state stream access

1644
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:22,320
Speaker 1: laws are different, which is why we stayed far away

1645
01:29:22,320 --> 01:29:25,960
Speaker 1: from that. Right in Colorado, Wyoming, UM, you cannot. With

1646
01:29:26,040 --> 01:29:29,720
Speaker 1: exception maybe a couple of counties you cannot. Um they

1647
01:29:29,720 --> 01:29:31,439
Speaker 1: don't have a stream access law that that you know,

1648
01:29:31,479 --> 01:29:33,960
Speaker 1: favors the public. It said, it's the landowners are in

1649
01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:36,160
Speaker 1: control there, and so it's different in every statement. In

1650
01:29:36,240 --> 01:29:39,320
Speaker 1: Montown states you can't set an anchor. That's the states.

1651
01:29:39,320 --> 01:29:41,280
Speaker 1: You can't hop out of your boat, that's right. And

1652
01:29:41,320 --> 01:29:44,799
Speaker 1: so in Montana, as I understand, if you're gonna walk

1653
01:29:44,920 --> 01:29:47,880
Speaker 1: down the stream through private below the high water mark

1654
01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:52,800
Speaker 1: to go big game hunting, you must fish while you're

1655
01:29:52,960 --> 01:29:56,640
Speaker 1: doing that. I was told the same thing. I thought

1656
01:29:56,640 --> 01:29:58,080
Speaker 1: the game ward said the same thing, and I thought

1657
01:29:58,120 --> 01:30:00,880
Speaker 1: that was so bizarre. But yeah, I didn't want to

1658
01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:02,920
Speaker 1: risk anything, so I just I'll just get permission. Be

1659
01:30:02,920 --> 01:30:05,680
Speaker 1: a great episode. Steve would listen you. I don't know,

1660
01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:08,439
Speaker 1: it's not gonna be a whole one, but listen. First off,

1661
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:12,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna have a thousand emails as will clarify it.

1662
01:30:13,280 --> 01:30:18,720
Speaker 1: This this will not go unclarified because I'm really struggling

1663
01:30:18,720 --> 01:30:22,120
Speaker 1: with what I'm hearing right now. But we will. But

1664
01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:26,200
Speaker 1: I'm not and I'm not a certified game ward and so,

1665
01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:30,200
Speaker 1: and you have and you haven't presented yourself. You have

1666
01:30:30,280 --> 01:30:33,800
Speaker 1: not presented yourself as a subject matter expert on this

1667
01:30:33,880 --> 01:30:39,800
Speaker 1: particular side particular side note that Mark Kenyon so innocently raised,

1668
01:30:39,800 --> 01:30:42,880
Speaker 1: please verify it. Yes, yeah, and you because all you

1669
01:30:42,960 --> 01:30:45,519
Speaker 1: just said extra safe. You're being extra safe, which is

1670
01:30:45,520 --> 01:30:48,360
Speaker 1: always smart. Which it is not fun to hunt looking

1671
01:30:48,439 --> 01:30:50,960
Speaker 1: over your shoulder now. But to tell you truth, it

1672
01:30:51,080 --> 01:30:53,280
Speaker 1: was it was a little frustrating to me to have

1673
01:30:53,320 --> 01:30:56,240
Speaker 1: to do that, you know, to see, there's this public

1674
01:30:56,320 --> 01:30:58,559
Speaker 1: land right here, and then there's a public stream access

1675
01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:00,960
Speaker 1: law that says I should be able to that's publicly

1676
01:31:00,960 --> 01:31:05,000
Speaker 1: accessible via that. I could fish it, I could float it.

1677
01:31:05,000 --> 01:31:07,479
Speaker 1: It was a little bit confusing to me why I

1678
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:11,840
Speaker 1: couldn't walk it. Huh yeah, So yeah, I mean it

1679
01:31:11,920 --> 01:31:13,640
Speaker 1: is what it is. I'm glad I could get in

1680
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:15,880
Speaker 1: there some way and hunt it. And I appreciate the

1681
01:31:15,880 --> 01:31:19,880
Speaker 1: private landowner very very much. Um, I appreciate the pupa

1682
01:31:19,920 --> 01:31:24,400
Speaker 1: wind to ladies and gentlemen. Mark Kenyon word hunt yet

1683
01:31:24,400 --> 01:31:28,360
Speaker 1: any concluders, Eric just on that point. I mean in Montana,

1684
01:31:29,320 --> 01:31:30,920
Speaker 1: if you can put in at a fishing access that

1685
01:31:31,080 --> 01:31:33,360
Speaker 1: you can float down and then you see a piece

1686
01:31:33,360 --> 01:31:35,240
Speaker 1: of public land it's touching the river, you can get

1687
01:31:35,240 --> 01:31:37,639
Speaker 1: out and hunting that. Joel agrees with that, but he's

1688
01:31:37,680 --> 01:31:40,559
Speaker 1: just talking about you're actually walking in the riverbed. Let's

1689
01:31:40,640 --> 01:31:43,679
Speaker 1: just to clarify that. You know, I'm with tracking. So

1690
01:31:43,680 --> 01:31:48,200
Speaker 1: so I could have I don't know, God, please go

1691
01:31:48,240 --> 01:31:52,960
Speaker 1: ahead like taking like a little rubber boat. Rubber boat rafted,

1692
01:31:53,040 --> 01:31:57,240
Speaker 1: no questions asked. So I would just encourage listeners to

1693
01:31:57,240 --> 01:32:00,519
Speaker 1: reach out to the representatives and tell them their their

1694
01:32:00,560 --> 01:32:07,360
Speaker 1: support for LWCF. Yeah, don't you think? And then uh,

1695
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:11,120
Speaker 1: I would also encourage listeners if they're gonna look into

1696
01:32:11,120 --> 01:32:12,960
Speaker 1: this a little bit more, go to Unlocking public lands

1697
01:32:13,000 --> 01:32:15,800
Speaker 1: dot org and read through the full report, read through

1698
01:32:15,800 --> 01:32:18,479
Speaker 1: all the assumptions. Well that's where all this is, yep,

1699
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:25,479
Speaker 1: Unlocking public lands dot org TRCP website And yeah, you

1700
01:32:25,479 --> 01:32:27,840
Speaker 1: can read through the full report, read through all the assumptions,

1701
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:29,800
Speaker 1: and then that might answer some of the questions you're

1702
01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:33,200
Speaker 1: attempted to throw out there. Yeah, we put it up

1703
01:32:33,240 --> 01:32:35,960
Speaker 1: on the we put up links on the mediator dot

1704
01:32:36,040 --> 01:32:41,160
Speaker 1: com in other places. But yeah, unlocking public lands dot org.

1705
01:32:42,040 --> 01:32:46,080
Speaker 1: Is that right? That's right, And there's actually additional resources

1706
01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:49,000
Speaker 1: on the website, um, where there's a few more details

1707
01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:52,160
Speaker 1: that break it down by agency in each state, as

1708
01:32:52,200 --> 01:32:54,760
Speaker 1: well as identifying the acre to the largest parcel in

1709
01:32:54,800 --> 01:33:00,600
Speaker 1: each state. And Deerk's point about contacting your congressional presentatives,

1710
01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:02,880
Speaker 1: there's an action page there, so we make it really easy.

1711
01:33:02,920 --> 01:33:05,000
Speaker 1: You can look at those findings and then send an

1712
01:33:05,000 --> 01:33:07,920
Speaker 1: email directly your decision makers because I think we need

1713
01:33:07,960 --> 01:33:11,439
Speaker 1: to be continuing to point out the importance of this

1714
01:33:11,479 --> 01:33:13,120
Speaker 1: issue and they need to reauthorize the line of Water

1715
01:33:13,160 --> 01:33:15,439
Speaker 1: Conservation Fund and in order to get it done. Yeah,

1716
01:33:15,439 --> 01:33:18,920
Speaker 1: when you send your message, just be like enough already exactly,

1717
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:24,519
Speaker 1: everyone knows where it's going. Just get it there. It's

1718
01:33:24,560 --> 01:33:30,840
Speaker 1: expiring like this week, Yeah, pretty quick? Is that your concluder? Um,

1719
01:33:30,880 --> 01:33:33,479
Speaker 1: I'll just say that, I mean the one highlight of

1720
01:33:33,880 --> 01:33:38,760
Speaker 1: land Water Conservation Fund not being reauthorized permanently three years ago.

1721
01:33:38,760 --> 01:33:41,120
Speaker 1: As I gotta work on this school project, and um,

1722
01:33:41,160 --> 01:33:44,040
Speaker 1: I'm pretty excited about this I think it's it's been

1723
01:33:44,080 --> 01:33:45,639
Speaker 1: a fun project and I just want to say thanks

1724
01:33:45,640 --> 01:33:47,519
Speaker 1: to the Onyx team. They only make a great product,

1725
01:33:47,560 --> 01:33:49,479
Speaker 1: but you know they're a bunch of good people too.

1726
01:33:49,920 --> 01:33:54,360
Speaker 1: Um And hopefully this this uh, this report is you know,

1727
01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:58,680
Speaker 1: put to use and and after LWCF is reauthorized, you

1728
01:33:58,680 --> 01:34:02,880
Speaker 1: know we're able to start chipping away at this number. Yeah,

1729
01:34:02,920 --> 01:34:06,600
Speaker 1: I'm knocked down to knock a couple million acres off it.

1730
01:34:07,640 --> 01:34:11,439
Speaker 1: That's ambitious. Yeah, but I think it can be done.

1731
01:34:11,600 --> 01:34:14,840
Speaker 1: And I think, I mean, LBCF is like the big tool, right,

1732
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:16,200
Speaker 1: but there's other things we can be looking at to

1733
01:34:16,280 --> 01:34:18,000
Speaker 1: and I think we're going to continue to investigate that.

1734
01:34:19,080 --> 01:34:21,040
Speaker 1: The image selection on the front of your report, the

1735
01:34:21,040 --> 01:34:27,320
Speaker 1: print version, is a provocative image because it's a mug

1736
01:34:27,960 --> 01:34:31,439
Speaker 1: who's walking through the woods. This guy's rifle, he's already

1737
01:34:31,439 --> 01:34:35,600
Speaker 1: to hunt. He's staring at his GPS up against the

1738
01:34:35,600 --> 01:34:39,679
Speaker 1: barbed wer fence. Is he thinking like I was gonna

1739
01:34:39,720 --> 01:34:44,920
Speaker 1: jump and run? Or is he you know, you just

1740
01:34:44,960 --> 01:34:46,960
Speaker 1: don't know what's going through his mind. Man. I like

1741
01:34:47,040 --> 01:34:49,360
Speaker 1: that he's confident. He's looking at his GPS, he knows

1742
01:34:49,400 --> 01:34:52,360
Speaker 1: exactly where that boundary is. He's like, oh, yeah, finally

1743
01:34:52,400 --> 01:34:55,439
Speaker 1: I'm here. This is my public easement, or maybe maybe

1744
01:34:55,479 --> 01:34:58,960
Speaker 1: there's public lands like a hundred yards away. That's what

1745
01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:03,120
Speaker 1: I see, is him being like, oh man, no he was.

1746
01:35:03,479 --> 01:35:05,519
Speaker 1: What he's saying is, oh man, this I saw that

1747
01:35:05,560 --> 01:35:07,160
Speaker 1: a huge deal over there five years ago. And I

1748
01:35:07,160 --> 01:35:09,880
Speaker 1: have my paper maps. It's actually blm across this film.

1749
01:35:12,680 --> 01:35:18,400
Speaker 1: I could have gone and gotten out if I had

1750
01:35:18,479 --> 01:35:23,439
Speaker 1: only known the truth. You got that was your concluder.

1751
01:35:24,479 --> 01:35:27,040
Speaker 1: Got a concluder, just more the same. You know what

1752
01:35:27,080 --> 01:35:33,800
Speaker 1: the concluder is. Yeah, yeah, I think I got it. Uh,

1753
01:35:34,120 --> 01:35:38,320
Speaker 1: just let's keep the pressure on for LBCF authorized. So

1754
01:35:38,360 --> 01:35:42,160
Speaker 1: you've come to um, you've come to admire the tool,

1755
01:35:42,600 --> 01:35:46,080
Speaker 1: oh for sure, Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean it was

1756
01:35:46,160 --> 01:35:48,880
Speaker 1: it was pretty cool to get to work on some

1757
01:35:48,960 --> 01:35:52,240
Speaker 1: of these inset maps. Um. You know our our analysts

1758
01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:55,519
Speaker 1: who really did the groundwork here, Brian Tutt. You know,

1759
01:35:55,640 --> 01:35:58,880
Speaker 1: we we went back and forth, um, and then we

1760
01:35:59,560 --> 01:36:02,439
Speaker 1: discussed things with Joel and Randall and uh, you know,

1761
01:36:02,800 --> 01:36:04,920
Speaker 1: we were really drilling down into some of these areas

1762
01:36:05,439 --> 01:36:09,960
Speaker 1: to produce these inset maps. And so yeah, it kind

1763
01:36:09,960 --> 01:36:12,600
Speaker 1: of brings the story alive. Yeah, that's as important for

1764
01:36:12,640 --> 01:36:15,640
Speaker 1: people to see like the little examples. If now you

1765
01:36:15,720 --> 01:36:19,719
Speaker 1: just get lost in these huge numbers, it doesn't make sense. Yeah,

1766
01:36:19,880 --> 01:36:23,599
Speaker 1: And I mean you can see the pretty picture and

1767
01:36:23,840 --> 01:36:26,200
Speaker 1: you can see the pretty map, and I think it

1768
01:36:26,360 --> 01:36:30,720
Speaker 1: together they they tell the story. And uh so I

1769
01:36:30,720 --> 01:36:33,320
Speaker 1: would encourage people to go to the website and actually

1770
01:36:33,640 --> 01:36:36,920
Speaker 1: take a take a peek at the report itself. I

1771
01:36:36,960 --> 01:36:40,920
Speaker 1: got it, I got a little I'll do that. I

1772
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:42,920
Speaker 1: got a little anecdote for you here, just real quick

1773
01:36:42,920 --> 01:36:45,439
Speaker 1: based on the inset maps at least I mentioned so

1774
01:36:46,320 --> 01:36:49,160
Speaker 1: on this thirty mile Creek one, we actually found a

1775
01:36:49,160 --> 01:36:52,360
Speaker 1: forty acre parcel that's not on the BLM maps. And

1776
01:36:53,200 --> 01:36:55,360
Speaker 1: one of the things that we kind of uncovered this

1777
01:36:55,360 --> 01:36:57,760
Speaker 1: project is all these emergent findings. You're like, whoa, you know, like,

1778
01:36:57,800 --> 01:36:59,720
Speaker 1: where did that come from? And um, this is one

1779
01:36:59,760 --> 01:37:02,920
Speaker 1: of them. So on the beaver Tailed Barmouth example, there's

1780
01:37:02,920 --> 01:37:06,599
Speaker 1: this Department of Transportation example, and we're trying to figure out, well,

1781
01:37:06,600 --> 01:37:09,920
Speaker 1: how our Department of Department of Transportation Montana Department of

1782
01:37:09,960 --> 01:37:12,160
Speaker 1: Transportation lands managed. Are they open to the public or

1783
01:37:12,240 --> 01:37:14,840
Speaker 1: they closed? Like are they managed like DNRC lands? And

1784
01:37:15,360 --> 01:37:18,719
Speaker 1: come to find out, yes, access is the same between Montana,

1785
01:37:18,800 --> 01:37:22,000
Speaker 1: d O T and d NRC lands unless posted otherwise. However,

1786
01:37:22,880 --> 01:37:26,599
Speaker 1: and in talking with the Montana Department of Transportation, they're like, Yeah,

1787
01:37:26,640 --> 01:37:29,160
Speaker 1: there's these parcels that we own, we bought in the

1788
01:37:29,200 --> 01:37:31,360
Speaker 1: sixties and seventies. We don't even know we have them,

1789
01:37:31,560 --> 01:37:35,680
Speaker 1: and and people call us now and then asking to

1790
01:37:35,720 --> 01:37:37,840
Speaker 1: buy them, and that's when we realize we have them.

1791
01:37:37,960 --> 01:37:42,639
Speaker 1: And and then after that, after that, we we're working

1792
01:37:42,680 --> 01:37:45,880
Speaker 1: on this thirty mile day like, which is organ like, look,

1793
01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:48,320
Speaker 1: there's another forty acre parcel of BLM and so I

1794
01:37:48,320 --> 01:37:51,960
Speaker 1: don't think that problem is limited to the Montana Department

1795
01:37:51,960 --> 01:37:55,679
Speaker 1: of Transportation. Like there are, um, you know, some errors

1796
01:37:55,680 --> 01:37:57,080
Speaker 1: in the data. But that's one of the cool things

1797
01:37:57,160 --> 01:37:59,759
Speaker 1: about you know, with what on accidente with their technology

1798
01:37:59,840 --> 01:38:02,880
Speaker 1: is like looking at this county assessor stuff and comparing

1799
01:38:02,920 --> 01:38:05,160
Speaker 1: it to private lands data, is they've actually uncovered some

1800
01:38:05,200 --> 01:38:07,720
Speaker 1: of those parcels that aren't on your standard public land map.

1801
01:38:07,760 --> 01:38:09,720
Speaker 1: And that was kind of a fun little thing to

1802
01:38:10,560 --> 01:38:12,800
Speaker 1: that no one knew was BLM land. Well, I'm sure

1803
01:38:12,880 --> 01:38:16,120
Speaker 1: somewhere in some plat book in the basement of a

1804
01:38:16,160 --> 01:38:19,439
Speaker 1: building in Portland it's recorded as public. But when I

1805
01:38:19,439 --> 01:38:21,439
Speaker 1: think when they probably turned it into maps, it was

1806
01:38:21,520 --> 01:38:26,120
Speaker 1: missed and and so I'm sure that um it's recorded somewhere,

1807
01:38:26,120 --> 01:38:29,120
Speaker 1: but you know somehow when it was public, users wouldn't

1808
01:38:29,120 --> 01:38:33,960
Speaker 1: have way to be readily exactly exactly. So anyway, UM yeah,

1809
01:38:33,960 --> 01:38:37,840
Speaker 1: so check this out. Go to unlocking public lands dot org.

1810
01:38:38,200 --> 01:38:41,800
Speaker 1: Look at the findings, but also be sure and send

1811
01:38:41,800 --> 01:38:45,479
Speaker 1: a letter to your decision makers to reauthorized the Land

1812
01:38:45,479 --> 01:38:48,840
Speaker 1: and Water Conservation Fund. It's our most powerful public access tool.

1813
01:38:49,680 --> 01:38:51,840
Speaker 1: So that CONNA be the last thing anybody says, I

1814
01:38:51,840 --> 01:38:53,479
Speaker 1: couldn't let it go. I had to say. I thought

1815
01:38:53,520 --> 01:38:55,720
Speaker 1: I'm not doing my job. I appreciate that is the

1816
01:38:55,840 --> 01:38:59,760
Speaker 1: last thing anybody says. What Joel just said, thank you,

1817
01:38:59,760 --> 01:39:05,320
Speaker 1: you're your sides. Would you just said ye,