Speaker 1: God is a record.
Speaker 2: Bring we will sue you to the gunner.
Speaker 1: Welcome, The Just Baseball Show is live. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for joining us. Jack McMullin, arm label right, fakel Stude, Peyton,
Speaker 1: Jesus here with you as always, and we've got our
Speaker 1: MLB trade deadline preview on the horizon. It is live
Speaker 1: at just baseball dot com. You should go check that out.
Speaker 1: Where they have power ring to be top fifty most
Speaker 1: valuable assets possibly available at the deadline is Byronston in there.
Speaker 1: I don't know is Byron Buxton mentioned at the end
Speaker 1: of the article for sure? Why? As he mentioned, you've
Speaker 1: got to go read it to find out. So it's
Speaker 1: a very layered description in primer for the MLB trade deadline,
Speaker 1: of course, with the one through fifty ranking of trade assets.
Speaker 1: So what we're gonna do today, We're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: the most valuable trade assets, the top ten to fifteen
Speaker 1: most valuable pieces that could be on the move at
Speaker 1: the trade deadline, which I believe is nine days away
Speaker 1: at this point. And then we are also going to
Speaker 1: get into the rental starter market. How hard is bullpen
Speaker 1: help going to be to come by? And then I
Speaker 1: think the catcher conundrum is fascinating and we can really
Speaker 1: dive into that. But you and the editorial team have
Speaker 1: done obviously a kick ass job with this. Again, the deadline.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like that's where you cook the most
Speaker 1: over the course of a single season. It feels like
Speaker 1: you really live for the trade deadline.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, me and Klais Noden, we felt like
Speaker 3: it was old JB days. We felt like it was
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one. Again. We were about to hop on
Speaker 3: the State of the Division podcast and talk about all
Speaker 3: thirty teams. We wrote eight thousand plus words on this
Speaker 3: and shout out to Clay again for carrying a lot
Speaker 3: of that heavy lifting on the right up side. Well,
Speaker 3: I kind of handled the ranking side of it, but yeah,
Speaker 3: the deadline is my time off season, you know, the
Speaker 3: transaction stuff. That's what I live for. And this was
Speaker 3: a labor of love to spend this much time on
Speaker 3: something and you know, care too much about who was
Speaker 3: ranked thirty fourth and thirty fifth on this list.
Speaker 4: If you extra days, fuxture days for it to breathe.
Speaker 4: We got the August third deadline this year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, I know, the random August third deadline.
Speaker 3: I like that they laid it out this year. I
Speaker 3: don't think there's any games played, so it should be
Speaker 3: a nice, crazy Monday for us when everything starts to unfold.
Speaker 1: So I guess we're like, what eleven days away then, yeah,
Speaker 1: because today is Wednesday, July twenty second, that we got
Speaker 1: August third, which is a Monday, So you pretty much
Speaker 1: have a week and a half to decide if these
Speaker 1: teams are going in the buying and selling direction. What
Speaker 1: we've seen teams overall kind of change the outlook of
Speaker 1: their season over the course of the last two weeks.
Speaker 1: And there are teams slipping and sliding. There are teams
Speaker 1: that are climbing the Boston Red Sox, slipping and sliding
Speaker 1: the Toronto Blue Jays. But it is really interesting to
Speaker 1: kind of keep tabs because I think I was reading
Speaker 1: yesterday twenty three of the thirty teams in Major League
Speaker 1: Baseball are within five games of a postseason spot. Twenty
Speaker 1: three of thirty or within five games. Five games used
Speaker 1: to be like be this barometer of if you're within
Speaker 1: five games, you're probably gonna buy and go for it.
Speaker 1: So arm I want to kick it to you and
Speaker 1: then we'll kind of go piece by piece for these
Speaker 1: valuable assets, Like do you expect that number to go
Speaker 1: down or do you expect this deadline to be underwhelming?
Speaker 1: Because if twenty three teams actually think they're in it,
Speaker 1: nothing's gonna happen.
Speaker 4: I think it's gonna be underwhelming, with the caveat that
Speaker 4: we might just get some crazy big lea for big
Speaker 4: leaguer deal. So I asked some people about the big
Speaker 4: leaguer people and I immediately get it shot down like, oh,
Speaker 4: those never happened, right, And I agree they don't happen,
Speaker 4: But if they ever were to really happen, I feel
Speaker 4: like it's gotta be this year now, Like this is
Speaker 4: if you're not a seller, which there's not many of,
Speaker 4: but you're not a full fledged buyer, what better way
Speaker 4: than to just trade from the big league team to
Speaker 4: assess a need elsewhere? And I think you have a
Speaker 4: couple of teams where in theory that would make more sense,
Speaker 4: but you have teams that could actually do it. We
Speaker 4: talk about the Mariners all the time, but I think
Speaker 4: there's several other teams, Like a J. Prower is gonna
Speaker 4: very much, but we're going to talk about that position
Speaker 4: himself to do it. I think you've even heard like
Speaker 4: from the Marlins and they got to snap the skid.
Speaker 4: But all the reports have been, hey, you know, we
Speaker 4: want to trade a little bit. If we're going to
Speaker 4: make some moves from the big league team to maybe
Speaker 4: address the big league team. I think it's gonna happen
Speaker 4: this year, and maybe we don't get the blockbuster like
Speaker 4: you know, NBA type of trades that you see, but
Speaker 4: I do think that's the one way that this deadline
Speaker 4: could get spiced up a little bit more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we'll see what happens here. I do want
Speaker 1: to take us into the top fifteen most valuable assets
Speaker 1: that Just baseball dot com has listed. Again, this article
Speaker 1: is live on Just baseball dot com. It will be
Speaker 1: linked to the episode description as well, but it is
Speaker 1: the top story on Just baseball dot com. Just go
Speaker 1: to it in your browser and you will find it
Speaker 1: at the tippy top of your page, whether it's on
Speaker 1: your phone or laptop or iPad or tablet, whatever you
Speaker 1: may choose to use and scroll the internet. I think
Speaker 1: before we get into like actual names of one through fifteen,
Speaker 1: how do you look at it? Because spoiler alert schoobles
Speaker 1: five a lot of people would look at the back
Speaker 1: to back American League, say Yaga Award winner and say,
Speaker 1: how is he not one or two? But you clearly
Speaker 1: value years of control. Teams very clearly value years of control.
Speaker 1: Fangrafs is doing their annual series right now where they're
Speaker 1: kind of ranking the most valuable assets in baseball, like
Speaker 1: Drake Baldwin for the sake of the exercises like the
Speaker 1: thirty first most valuable player in baseball in terms of
Speaker 1: if everybody was on the trademarket. So how do you
Speaker 1: balance overall talent and years of control to kind of
Speaker 1: go into this cocktail that is trade value.
Speaker 3: So I think the one thing that I wanted to
Speaker 3: do here because you can look right now, you could
Speaker 3: check out Jeff Patson's ranking and what they're doing over
Speaker 3: there at ESPN, and that comes with a lot of
Speaker 3: reporting from pass and it gives you the likelihood of
Speaker 3: guys getting traded. Then it's also a ranking of who's
Speaker 3: just the best players that can be acquired. What I
Speaker 3: wanted to do with this list is to assess value,
Speaker 3: and I think part of the things that we don't
Speaker 3: talk about that much when it comes to players getting traded.
Speaker 3: One it's years of control, is definitely going to boost
Speaker 3: their trade value and pretty significantly. Like Terrek, Schoolble is amazing,
Speaker 3: and the fact that he's even in the top five
Speaker 3: as a rental there's part of me that was wondering,
Speaker 3: is he too high because there's other guys that have control,
Speaker 3: you know, is we'll get into a minute, but is
Speaker 3: Schoolble more valuable than read debt nerves because he comes
Speaker 3: with two and a half years of control. So that
Speaker 3: was one balance. The other thing is money, and that's
Speaker 3: the thing that I think a lot of times we
Speaker 3: forget and that's why I put the contract right here
Speaker 3: because as much as you might prefer a Kevin Gossman
Speaker 3: over a Freddy Peralta, there's teams out there that say, well,
Speaker 3: Kevin Gosman's making pro rated from the twenty three million
Speaker 3: compared to Freddy Perlta at the eight million, and these
Speaker 3: are both veteran pitchers, and we'll roll the dice on
Speaker 3: Freddy because it costs less money. So that was part
Speaker 3: of how these rankings come together. The other thing, I
Speaker 3: will say, just getting back to the uncertainty of this
Speaker 3: deadline and so many teams in the middle this list
Speaker 3: looked a lot worse a couple days ago because I
Speaker 3: didn't have the Padres guys on here. I didn't have
Speaker 3: the Blue Jays guys on here. And at a certain point,
Speaker 3: there's some teams that just feel like, all right, we
Speaker 3: need to include these these for one, to just make
Speaker 3: the lists look better, but also we need to include
Speaker 3: these teams so that we can kind of understand, yeah,
Speaker 3: maybe the Padres should sell because hey, they have four
Speaker 3: really valuable trade assets that they can they can shop here.
Speaker 3: So that was another big thing with this list, was
Speaker 3: trying to decide which teams to include. And when you're
Speaker 3: reading at the end, there's a list of teams that
Speaker 3: we did not consider, like a Roldist, Chapmans not on
Speaker 3: this list, with think the Red Sox are going to buy.
Speaker 3: There's some players done on the bottom too, where it's
Speaker 3: guys that are unlikely to be sold low on. And
Speaker 3: then there's also a grouping like Hunter Goodman. We'll talk
Speaker 3: about him with the Catchers in a little bit. He's
Speaker 3: not in the top fifty because I don't know if
Speaker 3: a team is going to meet the value of Hunter
Speaker 3: Goodman with three and a half years of control. So
Speaker 3: that's how he kind of came down to fifty names,
Speaker 3: and if you read the whole article, almost every name
Speaker 3: that you can think of is going to be listed somewhere.
Speaker 3: They just might not all be in that top fifty.
Speaker 1: Arm you gave the nod of approval and the kind
Speaker 1: of vocal mm like them of approval. When when a
Speaker 1: Fink mentioned money, why is money such a big caveat here?
Speaker 4: I think it's the biggest aspect of the scooball component
Speaker 4: in particular, and we've talked about that a little bit
Speaker 4: on the show in the past, and that's why I
Speaker 4: love the rankings that we have out right now, because
Speaker 4: I think it just accounts for all of those things
Speaker 4: really well. Where if you trade for two school, yeah
Speaker 4: it's Terek scouple and you might think, you know, in theory, oh,
Speaker 4: ten million dollars like no brainer for Terrek Schouble the
Speaker 4: rest of the way, ten million for a rental is
Speaker 4: a lot of money, no brainer if you have the
Speaker 4: ability to do it. But think about how many gms
Speaker 4: have to then go sell that to ownership, like you
Speaker 4: better be damn sure you're making the playoffs if you're
Speaker 4: paying not only what the prospect return is going to
Speaker 4: be for a school, then ten million that could eat
Speaker 4: into I don't know how every time operates, but that
Speaker 4: could eat into what's available for you in free agency
Speaker 4: the next year if you guys don't make the playoffs,
Speaker 4: like it really does compound it, and it also shortens
Speaker 4: the list of teams that can pull this trade off,
Speaker 4: which is what we've talked about now. I think about
Speaker 4: the Rays historically, that could have been something that eliminates him.
Speaker 4: With this new ownership group, I think it's something that
Speaker 4: they might leverage here and say, here's our chance to
Speaker 4: swing for the fences. But traditionally, speaking like that could
Speaker 4: have been something that disqualifies a race team that has
Speaker 4: the prospect capital. So you don't create the bidding war
Speaker 4: necessarily because several teams may just disqualify themselves by saying
Speaker 4: we're not taking on ten million dollars for the rest
Speaker 4: of this season. That's more than some teams pay, you know,
Speaker 4: free agents for a whole season. So I think that
Speaker 4: part's really important, especially with other teams that are up
Speaker 4: against the CBT. Like for the sake of argument, let's
Speaker 4: say the Astros were in on Schooble and they could
Speaker 4: pull off the deal if they don't have enough wiggle
Speaker 4: room up to the CBT, like they're not gonna pay.
Speaker 4: I don't know exactly what the tax rate would be,
Speaker 4: but it will be more than ten now to pull
Speaker 4: that off, So it is limiting, I think for teams.
Speaker 4: And I also think it's part of the reason why
Speaker 4: I still wonder if the Tigers are gonna be able
Speaker 4: to pull this off, because if even if there's a
Speaker 4: sniff of salary dump in the respect that it's just, hey,
Speaker 4: you didn't get the return that you thought, you might
Speaker 4: as well just hold on to them at that point,
Speaker 4: And how many teams are gonna be lining up to
Speaker 4: give you the prospect return that a player of his
Speaker 4: caliber demands, even as a rental and taking on the money.
Speaker 4: I think there's a stalemate here.
Speaker 1: Someone's gonna need to pony up, and I'd be curious
Speaker 1: to see what that looks like. And to the point
Speaker 1: that we were initially discussing, it feels very likely that
Speaker 1: if Schooble is on the move, there's a good Big
Speaker 1: leagueer going back to Detroit in return, because Detroit, mind you,
Speaker 1: is not far off. We thought they were the class
Speaker 1: of the American League Central coming into this year, it's
Speaker 1: been incredibly disappointing. There are a whole bunch of different
Speaker 1: ways that Detroit can get good big league players in
Speaker 1: return for Trek schoolbel and maybe that offset's a little
Speaker 1: bit of the cash. But without further ado, it's time
Speaker 1: to get into the top ten to fifteen most valuable
Speaker 1: trade assets according to Just Baseball dot Com. Ryan Finkelstein,
Speaker 1: I'll let you take us through this man, because the
Speaker 1: top dog is a fascinating discussion. I'm sure we will
Speaker 1: talk plenty more about bullpen arms a little bit later
Speaker 1: on in the program. But how did you see the
Speaker 1: top ten to fifteen unfold?
Speaker 3: Well, I think starting off with like the top three,
Speaker 3: the guys that stood out to me, Mason Miller late edition,
Speaker 3: just because Jeff Passer reported that the pods are listening,
Speaker 3: and I completely understand why they would consider it. I
Speaker 3: also understand why it's going to be tough to move him.
Speaker 3: But you're talking about a guy who's three and a
Speaker 3: half years of control, a team that is very much
Speaker 3: in the middle right now, and also a market that
Speaker 3: we'll get into layer that does not have a lot
Speaker 3: of relievers. So Mason Miller was number one Zach Netto
Speaker 3: number two Neto also three and a half years of control,
Speaker 3: also a lad addition to this list for Neto another one.
Speaker 3: Recent reporting suggests that angels will listen. I wrote multiple
Speaker 3: times in the rite up, I said, I just don't
Speaker 3: know how many twenty five year old shortstops with three
Speaker 3: and a half years of control get traded. But because
Speaker 3: of that, he's very valuable, and so he's high up
Speaker 3: on this list. Joe Ryan number three because the difference
Speaker 3: between Joe Ryan and School bol it's twofold. One, it's
Speaker 3: a year and a half of control. Two. He's only
Speaker 3: making six point one million this season. He's got a
Speaker 3: thirteen million dollar mutual option for next season. If he
Speaker 3: decides it can make more in arbitration, which I don't
Speaker 3: know if he would get that much more. He can
Speaker 3: decide to not pick up his end of it and
Speaker 3: go through arb but either I think you're kind of
Speaker 3: set with what that's gonna look like for Joe Ryan,
Speaker 3: probably around twenty million dollars for a year and a half,
Speaker 3: and I think that's a lot more valuable than School.
Speaker 3: So I guess we can maybe start with those three
Speaker 3: and move on from there.
Speaker 1: There are plenty of famous examples of starting pitchers having
Speaker 1: one blow up start or one amazing start before the
Speaker 1: deadline and it heavily impacting their value. I think about
Speaker 1: Cole Hammil's throwing a no hitter right before the trade deadline.
Speaker 1: If I'm not mistaken, that was what early to mid
Speaker 1: twenty tens, and then he gets moved for a much
Speaker 1: greater haul than he would have been moved for four
Speaker 1: days prior. With Joe Ryan, who allowed six homers on
Speaker 1: Monday to the Cleveland Guardians, P D Halpin hit two
Speaker 1: of them. Do you think that docks Joe Ryan's value
Speaker 1: at all? Yes? Or no? Arm Leighton, I.
Speaker 4: Don't think so. I think you'd have to do it again.
Speaker 1: Not that bad, but just have another PD help another
Speaker 1: multi homer day.
Speaker 4: Yeah then I think so. But yeah, it just could
Speaker 4: be one of those days where verdy fastball guy just
Speaker 4: leaves didn't sound too much and hanks a couple of
Speaker 4: the breaking balls and it's just a rough one. But yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean if he has another one, like, you don't
Speaker 4: want to slump right into that for a team that
Speaker 4: was already on the fence, like they're gonna need to
Speaker 4: be absolutely wowed I think to do it anyways, So
Speaker 4: I think the only way that the Twins really move him,
Speaker 4: I think is if they which I think they should.
Speaker 4: But it's also hard. We talk about these teams and
Speaker 4: where they're at, and just I think the next week
Speaker 4: or so will determine that just how the Twins play,
Speaker 4: who all of a sudden now are back the four
Speaker 4: under five hundred. But I think, assuming he doesn't have
Speaker 4: another bad starter too, I just think that the bulk
Speaker 4: sample of Joe Ryan and just how consistent he has been, uh, ultimately,
Speaker 4: I don't think will affect it too too much.
Speaker 1: Interesting that I think you think Joe Ryan is a
Speaker 1: more valuable asset than school, But this is probably controlling
Speaker 1: money coming into play, right and Ryan is getting a
Speaker 1: little bit steeper I guess in price tag, but at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, like that year is doing
Speaker 1: a lot of heavy lifting.
Speaker 3: No one hundred percent. I mean again, it's the combination
Speaker 3: of the money side of it. I think Joe Ryan
Speaker 3: at only six million this year, that that barrier of entry,
Speaker 3: that that's going to open up a lot more teams
Speaker 3: being able to call on him. As you know I
Speaker 3: mentioned with Schoogle, you could be looking at two or
Speaker 3: three teams that can actually really, you know, viably do
Speaker 3: it on the combination of prospects and money. The other
Speaker 3: thing is, I just look at Joe Ryan and I
Speaker 3: feel like this year he's been healthy all year. He
Speaker 3: gives you that upside. And I think for a team
Speaker 3: that's going to give up the type of return to
Speaker 3: get one of these pitchers, having the extray of control,
Speaker 3: even with the looming lockout, I still think that that's
Speaker 3: going to help a GM put that prospect they really
Speaker 3: don't want to trade on the table because at least
Speaker 3: they have two playoff runs with him.
Speaker 4: And it also sets up your rotation at such a
Speaker 4: low cost. So whatever your budget is presumably for the
Speaker 4: off season, once we have the off season, you can
Speaker 4: address rotation. And also we talk about free agency and
Speaker 4: how bad it is like you may have to overpay
Speaker 4: for a picture that's going to be lesser than Joe Ryan.
Speaker 4: How nice to have Joe Ryan for about a year
Speaker 4: and a quarter at less than twenty million dollars, literally
Speaker 4: less than the qualifying offer. You're gonna get two playoff
Speaker 4: runs with Joe Ryan. So I think that's where a
Speaker 4: lot of teams could you know Pony up and if
Speaker 4: the Twins get offered, you know, Sean down Hue puts
Speaker 4: a great question one of our awesome writers just baseball,
Speaker 4: like could Atlanta be a sneaky team for Joe Ryan?
Speaker 4: Like if they offer you controllable starters, like if you
Speaker 4: get offered JR. Ritchie or whatever, it may be all
Speaker 4: of a sudden. I think the Twins just when you
Speaker 4: when you when you put it in the model and
Speaker 4: you look about you look at your present and your future,
Speaker 4: it becomes hard to say say no to you know,
Speaker 4: those controllable arms.
Speaker 1: Griffin Jacks was hard to move until what TDZ Bradley
Speaker 1: was on the table right Like there, those are really
Speaker 1: interesting names. And I saw Ken Rosenthals reporting you know
Speaker 1: about long term uh you know, younger starting pitchers that
Speaker 1: could trade chips in a schoobl conversation, right like Emmitt
Speaker 1: Sheen with the Dodgers. Who else to the fl listed
Speaker 1: painter with the Phillies. Guys like that. Those are really
Speaker 1: interesting names that could be available or somewhat available at
Speaker 1: the deadline real quick. On number two, Zach Netto, I
Speaker 1: think the Angels should move a lot. That's the one
Speaker 1: guy I would yeah, if I were the angels, and
Speaker 1: it's amazing that they're willing to listen on Netto. We're
Speaker 1: gonna get into the Catcher conversation momentarily, and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: pour some cold water on the Catcher market in a moment.
Speaker 1: But I guess I'm pouring cold water on the first
Speaker 1: one here. I really don't understand why Ardi Moreno, who
Speaker 1: hugs det Meers and Soriano and doesn't move rental O
Speaker 1: Tani is even thinking about moving as Zach Netto. Does
Speaker 1: that make any sense to you?
Speaker 4: Are No, it doesn't really, because like I think you
Speaker 4: could listen, especially in the world where like it sounds
Speaker 4: like the Astros aren't gonna trade Jeremy Panine. It's like
Speaker 4: you could just say, hey, we've got the one controllable
Speaker 4: shortstop on the market. Wow us, you know, just just
Speaker 4: give me the most ridiculous off forever. They don't get it,
Speaker 4: and it is what it is. It's also off a
Speaker 4: year where Netto's swinging and missing more than ever, and
Speaker 4: I think you're still very productive. I love Zach Meto,
Speaker 4: always have since he was a prospect, which wasn't very long.
Speaker 4: But I just I could understand just saying, hey, let's
Speaker 4: sit and listen, because if you can get multiple close
Speaker 4: to big league ready pieces, I get it. But I'm
Speaker 4: not a big proponent of like trading a guy with
Speaker 4: three and a half years of control, because especially when
Speaker 4: you have some other pieces, Like I don't have a
Speaker 4: lot of faith in the Angels organization, but you have
Speaker 4: a new guy in charge right now in mosay Loc
Speaker 4: you get a year and a half to like try
Speaker 4: to be semi competitive, and then by then if you're not,
Speaker 4: you still have two plus years of control to trade
Speaker 4: Neto and still get a haul. And there's a certain
Speaker 4: tipping point where it's like three and a half years
Speaker 4: versus two and a half years. I don't know how
Speaker 4: much more you're gonna get because teams just aren't gonna
Speaker 4: go that much further outside of their comfort zone. So
Speaker 4: I think it's worth listening. But trading a guy like
Speaker 4: that with three and a half years of control, I'd
Speaker 4: only be doing that if you had zero big league pieces.
Speaker 4: Maybe the Angels should have done that, you know, if
Speaker 4: they were where they were at last year, but now
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, they got some pictures and like
Speaker 4: you put in a couple other good bats like trouts,
Speaker 4: the healthiest he's been in a little bit, like there's
Speaker 4: a world where they can be all right next year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I'm totally with you. All right. Moving to
Speaker 1: the next clump of guys here, you've got a handful
Speaker 1: of starting pitchers. What you guys got Are we gonna
Speaker 1: do Mason Miller?
Speaker 4: Any question on that?
Speaker 1: Oh you want to talk Mason Miller. You want to
Speaker 1: save him for the bullpen conversation?
Speaker 4: Oh, save him for the bullpen. Sorry, I just want
Speaker 4: to double chuck next clumping of guys real quick.
Speaker 1: As we kind of pushed through the top fifteen most
Speaker 1: valuable assets, we've got a couple of starting pitchers, and
Speaker 1: then we've got a couple of catchers as well. I
Speaker 1: think you guys have Shay Langliers the Athletics listed as
Speaker 1: the number four most valuable trade asset that could be
Speaker 1: moved at the deadline, followed by school Bold, Debt, Mers,
Speaker 1: and Soriano in there as well. Michael Watkee in there
Speaker 1: as well, and the other catcher is Adley Ritchman of
Speaker 1: the Baltimore Orioles. I want to hold the catcher conversation
Speaker 1: because we're gonna expand on that but that clump of
Speaker 1: starting pitchers who jumps out to you and why outside
Speaker 1: of school because we just had a school conversation, Ryan, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 3: Read Detmers is the one that jumps out. It feels
Speaker 3: like if there's a guy that gets moved for a
Speaker 3: crazy return, I think Debtmers might kind of be the
Speaker 3: sweet spot where it's enough control that I think teams
Speaker 3: will really be aggressive on bidding for him. And if
Speaker 3: you're the Angels right now and you're trying to decide
Speaker 3: which piece to sell, you can keep Jose Sorano, who
Speaker 3: I don't think we'll have the same trade value, and
Speaker 3: you can just move Debtmers and get the return to
Speaker 3: boush your farm system without going into a full fire sale.
Speaker 3: And it kind of builds off of the Zach Nettle
Speaker 3: thing like you're gonna listen on all these guys. I
Speaker 3: think Detmers might be the sweet spot where you might
Speaker 3: actually be moved enough to actually sell on them. Also,
Speaker 3: you got to remember, like this is the guy who's
Speaker 3: pitching out of the bullpen last year, so it feels
Speaker 3: like a guy that is finally putting all together. Maybe
Speaker 3: sell high there. And like you mentioned, talk about the
Speaker 3: catchers later, but Langelier's I think with two and a
Speaker 3: half years of control, deserve to be in the top five.
Speaker 3: We'll see if they actually move them. Adleye is going
Speaker 3: to be interesting again. We'll talk about that with the catchers.
Speaker 3: But I look at Jose Soriano, Reed Detmers and Michael Waka.
Speaker 3: That that trio of arms. If you're trying to get
Speaker 3: a starting pitcher with control, I think those are the
Speaker 3: three that are most likely to move. And Waka is
Speaker 3: a guy that like that is such a good contract.
Speaker 3: It's crazy. He's making eighteen this year, fourteen next year.
Speaker 3: And then it's not a mutual, it's not a player.
Speaker 3: It's a club option for fourteen million dollars in twenty
Speaker 3: twenty eight with only a million dollar buyouts. So it's
Speaker 3: like the best of both worlds. It's either affordable or
Speaker 3: if Waka falls off a cliff in the next year
Speaker 3: and a half, you're out of the deal. So I
Speaker 3: almost look at at Waka and think like that's the
Speaker 3: guy that I would be targeting because I just don't
Speaker 3: think you'll have to give up the return of a
Speaker 3: younger pitcher like a debt meers, but you're getting the
Speaker 3: same control at a pretty affordable rate.
Speaker 4: I think I'm fascinated by the Detmers thing, and I know,
Speaker 4: like i've I've floated that he should be moved, and
Speaker 4: then I got a lot of pushback, and I kind
Speaker 4: of understood it from Angels spins, where it's like we've
Speaker 4: waited to have this pitching for such a long time. Sure,
Speaker 4: and I get that. I think that's some leverage that
Speaker 4: you can have there. But again, if the compensation is
Speaker 4: more pitching, and I'm not talking about like a low
Speaker 4: way arm, I'll just keep using.
Speaker 3: The Braves example.
Speaker 4: But there's other teams that are in this position, or
Speaker 4: the Dodgers. But if you're getting multiple either guys that
Speaker 4: have already debuted or guys that are just really close
Speaker 4: to being able to do so pitching prospects with six
Speaker 4: years of control, that's where it gets really interesting. And
Speaker 4: Detmers is what two years of control after this one
Speaker 4: Compared to Neto, you have an extra one if you
Speaker 4: have a bad year, you can revisit it at the
Speaker 4: deadline next year with Netto. But that's where I get
Speaker 4: just fascinated, because you mentioned they have some other guys
Speaker 4: that already you can plug in and look look at
Speaker 4: next year and say, right, we've got Soriano. You know,
Speaker 4: we've got Urania. Hopefully you have a healthy Kikuchi and
Speaker 4: if one or one of the young arms that you
Speaker 4: acquire you can plug right into the rotation, it's not bad.
Speaker 4: And then you're gonna get a couple other major pieces
Speaker 4: because not only is Deptmers controllable, it's extremely cheap and
Speaker 4: I think that's the really exciting part too. And there's
Speaker 4: not gonna be a slew of left handed arms on
Speaker 4: the market. I think that's one where if you're listening
Speaker 4: on netto, you better be listening with some intent on
Speaker 4: Deptmers because at that price point, you know, in terms
Speaker 4: of his contract, you might get wowed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we are going to hold a couple of the
Speaker 1: next guys because some of them are rental starting pitchers.
Speaker 1: But to round out the top fifteen, there are two
Speaker 1: guys that jump out to me that are fascinating. Number
Speaker 1: one at number ten is the top reliever available in
Speaker 1: the market, the Mets right hander Luke Weavers, and you're
Speaker 1: one of a two year deal. And then the other
Speaker 1: one that you guys have listed is fascinating to me,
Speaker 1: Luis Garcia junior with the Washington Nationals. Big, do you
Speaker 1: really think that Luis Garcia Junior is on the move,
Speaker 1: because this is a super value ascent to me, this
Speaker 1: breakout your offensively kind of screams building block, Like I
Speaker 1: don't know if Abrams is going anywhere, Wood is going anywhere,
Speaker 1: Garcia going anywhere, Lyle going anywhere. All of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you look at that National offense and they kind of
Speaker 1: look the way we were thinking they were gonna look
Speaker 1: at the beginning of last year. We're like, Wow, there
Speaker 1: are a lot of future cornerstones here.
Speaker 3: So I think with Louis Garcia, it's taken a sneaky
Speaker 3: long amount of time for him to have this breakout,
Speaker 3: and it's only a year and a half of control.
Speaker 3: So I think that's where if you're gonna move one
Speaker 3: like Abrams, I think it's at least two years after
Speaker 3: this season, maybe three. And that's why he fell into
Speaker 3: the bucket of guys who are too valuable to be traded.
Speaker 3: Louis Garcia, you can sell high right now on a
Speaker 3: market that has almost no bats. I mean, if the
Speaker 3: catchers don't go Luis Garcia, it's Louis Garcia and Luisa
Speaker 3: Ryes are like the best bat that you can get,
Speaker 3: and with Garcia you get that extra year of control.
Speaker 3: So that's why he's on this list and pretty high
Speaker 3: on this. As far as Luke Weaver, again, we'll talk
Speaker 3: about it more when we're going through why this relief
Speaker 3: market is so bad, But there's not the clear cut
Speaker 3: closer on the market right now. Luke Weaver can be
Speaker 3: that for some teams. We know he has closed games
Speaker 3: before and that extra ray of control again should incentivize
Speaker 3: teams to maybe put a bigger prospect on the table,
Speaker 3: knowing all right, even if we don't win this year,
Speaker 3: Luke Weaver is locked in for twelve and a half
Speaker 3: million dollars next season, which is something that he would
Speaker 3: get on the market probably, you know, if he was
Speaker 3: a free agent, you'd probably get that over maybe three years,
Speaker 3: like three years at twelve million. So those guys are
Speaker 3: definitely really valuable. I also will talk about the rental starters,
Speaker 3: but just because it ties into school ball, Casey Mice
Speaker 3: at six point, like, I think the Tigers might be
Speaker 3: getting more phone calls on Casey Mimes over the next
Speaker 3: eleven days than Schooble because it's only six point one
Speaker 3: five million dollars that any team can theoretically trade for him,
Speaker 3: and you wouldn't think you'd had to give up as much.
Speaker 3: But there's a reason why I put him right outside
Speaker 3: the top ten, because I think he's that valuable for
Speaker 3: the Tigers right now.
Speaker 1: I dig it.
Speaker 4: Arm what jumps out to you the Luis Garcia conversations
Speaker 4: is a good one because I think, like the point
Speaker 4: you bring up Jack is like the initial first thought,
Speaker 4: and then when you think about the market and what
Speaker 4: Fink brings up, and you also think about the fact
Speaker 4: that the Nationals like they're cooking beyond what we're seeing
Speaker 4: at the big league level. They've got guys coming up,
Speaker 4: and if they're not going to trade Abrams, going to
Speaker 4: have to clear up some space somewhere for some of
Speaker 4: these bats that they've got coming up. And they also
Speaker 4: I don't know how they're going to operate in terms
Speaker 4: of spending, but I still think they're at a position
Speaker 4: where money matters. And if he's making about seven million
Speaker 4: Garcia and Arb this year, you think we'll probably especially
Speaker 4: after the year he had probably exceed ten and I'm
Speaker 4: sure they will have to allocate that money towards pitching
Speaker 4: and if you can get a little bit of a
Speaker 4: prospect return. With the way that Taboni is, this is
Speaker 4: a different Mats front office, with the way that they
Speaker 4: can snipe prospects and maximize these returns. I think they
Speaker 4: might be eager to do that in a market that
Speaker 4: may play into their favor. So that's one why I
Speaker 4: think we saw the report from Will Salmon of the
Speaker 4: Athletic and Spencer and USPAM that said multiple teams have
Speaker 4: asked about Garcia, and at first I was kind of man, sure,
Speaker 4: you know, but when you think about the market has
Speaker 4: been alluded to, there's not a lot out there, and
Speaker 4: I assume that that's one hundred percent true. A lot
Speaker 4: of teams are probably just looking for any kind of
Speaker 4: offensive upgrade, and here's a guy that's on pace to
Speaker 4: hit thirty.
Speaker 1: No doubt about that. So again, that was the Rundown Podcast.
Speaker 1: PEF you wouldn't un flash in the graphic one more
Speaker 1: time at the top fifteen of the top fifteen most
Speaker 1: valuable trade chips at the twenty twenty six trade deadline. Again,
Speaker 1: the article live on Just Baseball dot Com has one
Speaker 1: through fifty ranked. We're going to get into a fascinating
Speaker 1: catcher conversation before we wrap the back half of the
Speaker 1: episode with pitching. But before that, let's hear about some peanuts.
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Speaker 1: Let us continue the conversation with the catchers that could
Speaker 1: be on the move, because Ryan Finkelstein just offered the
Speaker 1: caveat if the catchers aren't moving. Luis s Garcia is
Speaker 1: right there with Luisa Rise in terms of the best
Speaker 1: and most valuable bats that could be available at the
Speaker 1: trade deadline. The catching crop is what throws a massive
Speaker 1: wrench into this whole deadline conversation and the names that
Speaker 1: jump up. Jay Langliers with the Athletics, Hunter Goodman with
Speaker 1: the Colorado Rockies, Adlie Ritchman with the Baltimore Orioles, Francisco
Speaker 1: Alvarez with the New York Bets. There are a couple
Speaker 1: other guys, Tyler Stevenson in Cincinnati. Yeah, he's a step
Speaker 1: below or a couple steps below in terms of weight class.
Speaker 1: From those big guys, I see two top dogs, to
Speaker 1: be honest with you, I see Goodman in Colorado based
Speaker 1: on what he has done away from Corsfield this year,
Speaker 1: overwhelming majority of his thirty one homers have come away
Speaker 1: from cors Field. And then Langaliers as well, who was
Speaker 1: the starting catcher for the American League of the All
Speaker 1: Star Game. I will start by pouring cold water on
Speaker 1: those two guys, and then we could expand the conversation.
Speaker 1: I think Sacramento would be silly to move Langaliirs right now.
Speaker 1: I also think Colorado would be silly to move Goodman
Speaker 1: right now. I think Goodman is what the Rockies have
Speaker 1: been clamoring for for quite a while, and with how
Speaker 1: much control they have over Hunter Goodman, they should be
Speaker 1: retaining him. I understand that this is a new regime
Speaker 1: and they feel like they have a lot of work
Speaker 1: to do, especially on the pitching side, but they're finding
Speaker 1: the best of Mickey moniac and they're finding the best
Speaker 1: of Jake McCarthy Like TJ. Rumfield's a hell of a player.
Speaker 1: This offense can be sneaky dangerous next year or the
Speaker 1: year after. And when you have a forty homer threat
Speaker 1: behind the dish, that does a lot of heavy lifting
Speaker 1: for you. Similar with Langoliers. If Langaliers goes, I mean,
Speaker 1: right now, with how many injuries they have, what are
Speaker 1: the redeeming qualities in that lineup? Outside of Kurts. Everybody's
Speaker 1: hurt right now, and I know the guys are gonna
Speaker 1: get healthy, but Langaliers has proven to be a top
Speaker 1: five catcher in Major League Baseball. I just don't think
Speaker 1: you move those guys with two and a half years.
Speaker 1: What say you about Langaliers? And Goodman? Think you first?
Speaker 3: So I'm with you. And there's a reason why Hunter
Speaker 3: Goodman's now on this list, And that's exactly what the
Speaker 3: read is. And I just don't think that there's going
Speaker 3: to be a team that's going to offer enough for
Speaker 3: a catcher with three and a half years of control.
Speaker 3: Langaliers was again another late edition, and ultimately the fact
Speaker 3: that there was some reporting that came out that they
Speaker 3: tried to extend him and they didn't get a deal done.
Speaker 3: That kind of perked my ears up a little bit
Speaker 3: on it. He's so consistent, this guy. Every year it's
Speaker 3: twenty plus. It's a catcher some baseball year in, year out,
Speaker 3: just always there.
Speaker 4: So it have to be a lot.
Speaker 3: But it's kind of like last year where we were
Speaker 3: all saying, there's no world that they trade Mason Miller.
Speaker 3: But then if they, if a good enough prospect gets
Speaker 3: put on the table, I think it can happen. And
Speaker 3: so this is where I just wonder if there's enough
Speaker 3: dialogue on teams trying to get a goodman or a
Speaker 3: lengeliers do teams pivot and now all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: the Ridals get overwhelmed for a year and a half
Speaker 3: of ADLEI, or the Mets get overwhelmed for three and
Speaker 3: a half years of Francisco Alvarez. That's where I think
Speaker 3: those two are more likely to be moved. And I
Speaker 3: will say one thing about Adli I just you just
Speaker 3: look at the surface level numbers and you say, like, Okay,
Speaker 3: he's having a good bounce back season. Then you look
Speaker 3: at this savant and look under the hood the fact
Speaker 3: that you can get a catcher in Adlie that you're
Speaker 3: not gonna have to worry that much about the sort
Speaker 3: of learning curve of a new pitching staff and everything.
Speaker 3: You know, he's going to handle the defensive side of
Speaker 3: things while giving you a really good bat. Like, I
Speaker 3: think there is a real chance that Ali gets moved
Speaker 3: here because again it's a year and a half of control,
Speaker 3: you have Bisillo locked up. I just wonder if the
Speaker 3: Orioles pull the trigger on this. It's an interesting one.
Speaker 3: And also he just hurt his wrists, which is I
Speaker 3: was going to say a complication too.
Speaker 4: I was going to say that works both ways, where
Speaker 4: I assuming that he returns healthy and he's going to
Speaker 4: go this bounce back year of Adlie, he's still been
Speaker 4: banged up, like it's going to be a battle to
Speaker 4: get to one hundred and ten games, and when you
Speaker 4: look at next year and you just want to continue
Speaker 4: to get more reps for a Besalloh and that's your
Speaker 4: extended future of the position, and you're also a team
Speaker 4: right now.
Speaker 1: That just is.
Speaker 4: I know they've been playing better of late, and overall,
Speaker 4: it's kind of depends what day we check in of
Speaker 4: what they should do ultimately probably not going to make
Speaker 4: a major run here. This is probably your last chance
Speaker 4: to really cash in. And I do think like a
Speaker 4: lot of teams would have still interest in adding Adelie
Speaker 4: to the fold. I don't know, it just it always
Speaker 4: feels like the Oils are never going to do it.
Speaker 4: But the names that we mentioned, it feels like he
Speaker 4: would be the most likely given less control bounce back
Speaker 4: Yere but still injured and of the same frustrations that
Speaker 4: the Orioles may have. I'm just I'm curious on that
Speaker 4: side of things. And then with Goodman, I agree one
Speaker 4: hundred percent, Jack, like, just extend that guy, and who
Speaker 4: cares if you pay above market value whatever, you have
Speaker 4: two years of control, leverage those and am whatever it takes.
Speaker 4: The Athletics have tried with Langliers, you know, the deal
Speaker 4: with John Fisher at this point, like even with the
Speaker 4: new franchise, with the new location in Vegas, whatever, like
Speaker 4: they're quickly seemed to be far apart. If you think
Speaker 4: there's no path to being able to extend Langliers, like
Speaker 4: this would be the most valuable time to do it,
Speaker 4: so you might as well listen. But I just don't
Speaker 4: see how another one where it's just I know it's
Speaker 4: not my money, but it's a building block here, and
Speaker 4: you have one of the best catchers in the game
Speaker 4: who gets better every year and is a great clubhouse guy,
Speaker 4: like pay the man, and those two guys have earned it,
Speaker 4: But I just I don't if you don't think you're
Speaker 4: gonna pay them, now would be the time to trade them.
Speaker 1: Theoretically, historically speaking, catchers have always been an off season trade. Like,
Speaker 1: very few good catchers are moved at a demi line
Speaker 1: because to the point of learning a new staff, like
Speaker 1: that's hard, especially in the midst of a postseason run,
Speaker 1: and you've got guys that are clicking probably with one
Speaker 1: or two catchers. Now it's probably easier in this day
Speaker 1: and age than previously, where the pitcher catcher dynamic in
Speaker 1: the battery relationship was of the utmost importance, and now
Speaker 1: it's still really important. But it's not like dire because
Speaker 1: there are some teams that are calling pitches from the dugout.
Speaker 1: But like I'm looking at this catching crop and saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: Adley would be very valuable at the deadline, but maybe
Speaker 1: he's moved in the off season. Francisco Alvarez would be
Speaker 1: very valuable at the deadline, but maybe he's moved in
Speaker 1: the off season where you can kind of think with
Speaker 1: a clear mind and you're not making a decision coming
Speaker 1: off of five losses in a row or coming off
Speaker 1: of five wins in a row saying we're going to
Speaker 1: give up a top ten prospect in baseball for two
Speaker 1: and a half years of shehe Langeliers and we got
Speaker 1: to add more The interesting name here that I can't
Speaker 1: decide where I sit on is Alvarez. Think like Francisco,
Speaker 1: Alvarez is someone that I'm still holding out a ton
Speaker 1: of hope for. And I've always just associated Alvarez and
Speaker 1: Gabby Moreno in my head, and that's the next group
Speaker 1: of star young catchers, and Moreno has become that for Arizona,
Speaker 1: and he's not going anywhere. Alvarez feels like he's been
Speaker 1: knocking on the door for the last two years, but
Speaker 1: then a thumb thing, and then a handmate and then
Speaker 1: something else. Where do you sit on Alvarez? Getting to
Speaker 1: watch this guy when he's on the field every day,
Speaker 1: do you think it makes sense to cash it on
Speaker 1: three and a half years remaining of Francisco Alvarez.
Speaker 3: I am so torn on this one. Again. I think
Speaker 3: there is a situation that can unfull where it makes sense,
Speaker 3: and it's the one that I laid out. You have
Speaker 3: teams that are going all in on Goodman or Lengeliers
Speaker 3: and they're not getting him, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: you get offered a crazy return for Francisco Alvarez where
Speaker 3: you're getting maybe it's a top one hundred starting pitching
Speaker 3: prospect that you think you can slot into irrotation next season.
Speaker 3: Maybe you're getting a big bat that you can move
Speaker 3: over like a can't miss first base prospect. You can
Speaker 3: finally have your answer there. I don't know exactly what
Speaker 3: that return is, but I do think that because the
Speaker 3: Mets have Luise Terrenz, who I think the front office
Speaker 3: absolutely loves, they extended him and he's really I mean,
Speaker 3: by the metrics, he's maybe the best defensive catcher in baseball.
Speaker 3: If you are going to continue to give Turrenz a
Speaker 3: ton of playing time and Alvarez is catcher DH, that
Speaker 3: offense looks a little different if Alvarez is dhing instead
Speaker 3: of catching. Now as a catcher, you're talking about a
Speaker 3: guy that despite all the injuries. Despite everything else, he
Speaker 3: has at this point in his career only run a
Speaker 3: WRC plus under one hundred and one time. His rookie season,
Speaker 3: when he hit twenty five homers. Last year was a
Speaker 3: one twenty four WRC plus. This year it's a one
Speaker 3: fourteen WRC plus. I absolutely love Francisco Alvarez. I would
Speaker 3: be very upset as a Mets fan to see him
Speaker 3: go somewhere else and blossom.
Speaker 4: But I also.
Speaker 3: Understand the state of the Mets. They are in full cellar.
Speaker 3: So that's the other thing compared to these other teams.
Speaker 3: You know, I think you know, for the Orioles, they
Speaker 3: got a there. They've probably been going back and forth
Speaker 3: on if they're selling or not. For the Mets, you've
Speaker 3: known your selling for a little bit and you're gonna
Speaker 3: be entertaining a ton of conversations. So I could see
Speaker 3: the Mets moved to sell Alvarez. The one last note
Speaker 3: I'll have is there was an article that came out
Speaker 3: probably about three or four weeks ago now from Will
Speaker 3: Sam and The Athletic, and it was an article saying
Speaker 3: the Mets catching could get a bounty at this deadline.
Speaker 3: And I feel like that came from the front office
Speaker 3: to gauge what kind of bounty they could get. It
Speaker 3: felt to me like a little bit of a leak
Speaker 3: to Will Salmon. Let's just throw out there that we're listening.
Speaker 3: And because of that, I can't shut out the possibility
Speaker 3: that Alvarez gets moved.
Speaker 4: So I have two follow ups on that. Do you
Speaker 4: think Francisco Alvarez is more valuable to another team kind
Speaker 4: of based on what you laid out than he is
Speaker 4: to the Mets right now and even moving forward?
Speaker 3: I think because of the need to catch a position
Speaker 3: like I could, like, for example, the Rays might need
Speaker 3: to catch her. I can see the Rays say, you
Speaker 3: know what, We're gonna make Francisco alvaas way better than
Speaker 3: he's ever been, and we're going to put the prospects
Speaker 3: on the table to get him because he's cheap. We
Speaker 3: have three and a half years of control, and he's
Speaker 3: gonna help us right now. So I think that the
Speaker 3: market really might might value him. I don't know if
Speaker 3: I want to say more than the Mets. Necessarily, I
Speaker 3: think the Mets still value him highly, but I think
Speaker 3: the market might meet the Mets value of him to
Speaker 3: the point where they decid, you know what, let's catch
Speaker 3: in two.
Speaker 4: Would he be by far the most valuable return that
Speaker 4: they would get at the deadline? Because that's why I
Speaker 4: get stuck with the Mets. Rebuild is or not rebuild? Sorry,
Speaker 4: I'm just selling at this deadline is who's going to
Speaker 4: really help you rebuild the pieces? Like, who's going to
Speaker 4: really help you recoup value other than you know Weaver
Speaker 4: and maybe Clay Holmes, Like who's the guy that's going
Speaker 4: to really shift the org a little bit and send things,
Speaker 4: you know into I would say, with momentum into the
Speaker 4: next season and into the off season, do you feel
Speaker 4: like Alvarez would be far and away the best return?
Speaker 4: So I I think.
Speaker 3: Alvarez would would bring you the best return, But I
Speaker 3: think Luke Weaver is a little bit close. And I
Speaker 3: think that's why Alvarez. My guess right now, if I
Speaker 3: deput my my on it, I think that Alvarez stays
Speaker 3: because it's so hard to replace Francisco Alvarez. But I
Speaker 3: think that and I also think the Mets can really
Speaker 3: as we'll talk about in a minute, they can corner
Speaker 3: the relief market. They have two rental starting pitchers. They
Speaker 3: can flip so I ultimately think it's move the three leivers,
Speaker 3: move homes and Perolta for whatever you can. I think
Speaker 3: that's going to give you enough of a return that
Speaker 3: you don't have to trade Francisco Alvarez, I will say.
Speaker 3: At the same time, we'll probably do it next week.
Speaker 3: We're working on a lot of mock trades behind the
Speaker 3: scenes here, and we were mocking some trades for the
Speaker 3: Cubs for an article we have coming. In one of
Speaker 3: those trades, I think it was Luke Weaver going the
Speaker 3: other way and the Mets getting Owen a Ers. So
Speaker 3: it's like, if you've got if you've made another trade
Speaker 3: where you got a potential catcher of the future, well
Speaker 3: now you're even more kind of willing to put Avaz
Speaker 3: on the table. The problem for the Mets is in
Speaker 3: the system right now. The catchers are too far away
Speaker 3: to think that you have somebody else us and I
Speaker 3: don't believe the Mets would want Louis Trenz to catch,
Speaker 3: you know, one hundred and twenty five games. So that's
Speaker 3: where I think it's it's really tough to move them,
Speaker 3: and ultimately it's going to be a lot easier to
Speaker 3: just move the pitching that's expiring and try to build
Speaker 3: around Alvarez, benj Ewing, Sodo Lindor and then the young
Speaker 3: pitching I have you in your rotation.
Speaker 1: Makes sense, all right, Let's pivot the conversation here rental starters,
Speaker 1: because the rental starter market is going to be one
Speaker 1: that could move quite a bit, and you can kind
Speaker 1: of clump out the top ten rental starting pitchers. And
Speaker 1: you did that for us, and the top two are
Speaker 1: Detroit Tigers. The top rental starter available, obviously is Trek Scooble,
Speaker 1: the back to back of America League. So Young Award
Speaker 1: winner first got to do that since Pedro in ninety
Speaker 1: nine and two thousand and then Casey Mice former number
Speaker 1: one overall pick. Schooble and Mice. We opened up that
Speaker 1: conversation already. And think you mentioned Scott Harris could be
Speaker 1: getting more calls about MAZ than school ball just based
Speaker 1: on where the money is. For Casey Mice, he'll be
Speaker 1: out about two million dollars for the final two months
Speaker 1: versus school who's gonna be owned about ten million dollars
Speaker 1: for the final two months. But I do want to
Speaker 1: clump in three and four to this conversation as well.
Speaker 1: Clay Holmes is valuable. Kevin Gosman is someone who confuses
Speaker 1: me because I would be willing to. I not like
Speaker 1: sell the farm for Kevin Gosman because it's a rental
Speaker 1: and he is a older veteran's darter. But I love
Speaker 1: watching Gosman throw and he feels like such a safety
Speaker 1: net in a playoff rotation. If he is my playoff three,
Speaker 1: I feel like I can win a lot of series.
Speaker 1: Where do you sit on Gosman?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I honestly I almost want to look at that
Speaker 3: that three through five because that was the toughest ones Holmes, Gosman,
Speaker 3: and Foster Griffin. Because Foster Griffin is having the best
Speaker 3: season of the three. He is the cheapest, only five
Speaker 3: million dollars, so per write that out right. But the
Speaker 3: thing about Foster Griffin is he was in the KBO
Speaker 3: for the past three years, so how do you feel
Speaker 3: like he is going to translate in a playoff race?
Speaker 3: And that's where Kevin Gosman is really valuable, as you mentioned,
Speaker 3: even though he's not having the best season. Even though
Speaker 3: his contract it's twenty three million, so whatever that comes
Speaker 3: out to maybe seven million something along those lines. Even
Speaker 3: with all of that, Kevin Gosman is the guy that
Speaker 3: I'd probably want to hand the ball to. At the
Speaker 3: same time, Clay Holmes was so good earlier this season.
Speaker 3: He does still have postseason experience grant to come out
Speaker 3: of the bullpen. But because Holmes is cheaper on the
Speaker 3: contract by pretty fair amount thirteen million this season, so
Speaker 3: that's probably like three and a half maybe four, I
Speaker 3: think Holmes is slightly more valuable. But I just think
Speaker 3: that of those rentals, I believe teams would look at
Speaker 3: Holmes and Gosman and say, you know what, even though
Speaker 3: Foster Griffin's been way better this year, I still trust
Speaker 3: those guys more in a playoff game.
Speaker 1: Do you agree with that sentiment orum with Gosman.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, just just got to see it up
Speaker 4: close and personal in the playoff run last year, You've
Speaker 4: got a guy that's thrown. You don't often get to
Speaker 4: acquire somebody that's thrown what fifty plus innings in the postseason,
Speaker 4: I believe in it's fifty six and a third, and
Speaker 4: you went out and made two starts in the World
Speaker 4: Series last year and was really effective. Overall. It was
Speaker 4: a great playoff run. In general last year, So I
Speaker 4: think from that lens, like if teams really value that,
Speaker 4: I think that's going to be something that's important with
Speaker 4: Gosman because yeah, you can you can acquire this breakout player,
Speaker 4: and the Griffin's been amazing. He might just go out
Speaker 4: there and keep throwing, but it's also never been there,
Speaker 4: so you just don't know. The other aspect that I
Speaker 4: think is fascinating is Holmes because Holmes looked like he
Speaker 4: was really putting it all together. So if somebody looks
Speaker 4: at that and says, look, assuming he's healthy and we
Speaker 4: see him throwing the ball, well, like we think this
Speaker 4: guy's the most effective of the bunch, I could also
Speaker 4: see that. I think the Holmes Griffin thing is interesting,
Speaker 4: but I do understand like the Gosman just been there,
Speaker 4: done that, even though he has just been so jeckoing
Speaker 4: highe this year, which could maybe spook some teams too.
Speaker 3: One other note on Holmes, I think if he had
Speaker 3: gone down with an elbow injury or something, the value
Speaker 3: is not there. He got hit in the leg with
Speaker 3: the comebacker and fractured his fibulous so I just think
Speaker 3: he's I'm sure he's been able to throw this whole time,
Speaker 3: and I just imagine that you're you're gonna be getting
Speaker 3: an arm that's pretty fresh down the stretch too, Yeah,
Speaker 3: which I think teams will look at and say, all right,
Speaker 3: there's no reason why Clay Holmes can't pick up where
Speaker 3: he left off. That's one guy though, He's gonna make
Speaker 3: a start next week. And like you were talking before,
Speaker 3: Jack about the Cole Hamill situation, that's one where that
Speaker 3: start is gonna be over analyzed a lot because if
Speaker 3: he comes back he gives up nine runs, you're not
Speaker 3: gonna get anywhere near the value. If he comes back
Speaker 3: and looks like he hasn't you know, skipped to be
Speaker 3: even if it's seventy five pitches, but he gives you,
Speaker 3: you know, five scoreless innings, I think team will say,
Speaker 3: all right, same guy, we're gonna we're gonna trade for
Speaker 3: what he was before the injury.
Speaker 1: Yeah, makes perfect sense. Arm, you had something else, no.
Speaker 4: That that was that was kind of part of it
Speaker 4: us and say like how many highs are going to
Speaker 4: be on that Clay home start when he when he
Speaker 4: comes back. And I think the one thing would just
Speaker 4: be kind of like the landing spot to see how
Speaker 4: he's if he's able to have the same level of
Speaker 4: command that he had before. And I so one comment.
Speaker 4: I just saw a couple of people confuse on the
Speaker 4: Joe Ryan mutual option. This isn't your typical mutual option
Speaker 4: where it gets declined eye one side and he's a
Speaker 4: free agent. It's a mutual option to fore go arbitration.
Speaker 4: If one side declines a mutual option, then they just
Speaker 4: go to arbitration. So you still have the year of control.
Speaker 4: Just to clarify that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it is a one and a half year
Speaker 1: by for Joe Ryan, which is why he is not
Speaker 1: a top ten rental starter on just Baseball dot com.
Speaker 1: The next group of guys Freddy Peralta of the Mets,
Speaker 1: Shane Bieber the Blue Jays, Robbie Ray of the Giants,
Speaker 1: and then Trevor Rodgers of the Orioles, and Brady Singer
Speaker 1: of the Cincinnati Reds. Hand up. I probably wouldn't be
Speaker 1: touching Brady Singer. It was bombs away at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the year. Brady Singer scares me quite a bit.
Speaker 1: Trevor Rodgers is an interesting one to me because it's
Speaker 1: just so volatile. I look at this next group of guys.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of unknown with Bieber, a lot of unknown.
Speaker 1: Freddy Peralta, I think is still going to command a
Speaker 1: decent haul because of the name value and because of
Speaker 1: what he has done and things that he could snap
Speaker 1: it into gear over the course of a single start.
Speaker 1: But my eyes go to Robbie Ray. Man. I think
Speaker 1: there are a lot of teams out there that want
Speaker 1: a quality left handed starter in their hunt for October
Speaker 1: and once they get into October. As someone that has
Speaker 1: not seen the value to the one hundredth percentile of
Speaker 1: Robbie Ray over the course of the life of this podcast,
Speaker 1: hand up, I think Robbie Ray is pretty damn valuable
Speaker 1: at this deadline.
Speaker 4: I like that shout too. When I watch him, I
Speaker 4: feel like it should be way better than the peripherals are. Yeah,
Speaker 4: Like you look at his strikeout numbers. How was the
Speaker 4: only striking out seven point eight per nine. I don't know,
Speaker 4: but he's effective out there, and we have back to
Speaker 4: back years now Robbie Ray just being very very effective,
Speaker 4: you know, and being in the load to mid three.
Speaker 4: So I think that is a guy that, yeah, plenty
Speaker 4: of teams would would love to add to the phone
Speaker 4: and that was gonna be my question kind of is
Speaker 4: the stacking there, Like Shane Bieber looking much better off
Speaker 4: off of the last start. He's another guy where I
Speaker 4: think start by start because it was finally good, it
Speaker 4: was so bad off the understandable was off the il.
Speaker 4: If he has a couple of good starts, I think
Speaker 4: he really like validates that spot or maybe climbs a
Speaker 4: little bit more if he has a couple other duds,
Speaker 4: Like would you think he slips pink to a little
Speaker 4: bit lower. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So Shane Bieber the reason why I put him where
Speaker 3: I did it just because I think there's gonna be
Speaker 3: teams that are gonna look at what happened last year
Speaker 3: and they're gonna say, you know what last year it
Speaker 3: was he was coming off TJ and he found a
Speaker 3: way to be very valuable for the Blue Jays. I
Speaker 3: think that's gonna help him a little bit. When it
Speaker 3: comes to Robbie Ray, I was really torn on him because,
Speaker 3: like you mentioned, the peripherals kind of suggest that he's
Speaker 3: not as good as the era. But again, you watch
Speaker 3: him pitch and he's a veteran, So I think there's
Speaker 3: teams that are gonna like him The other thing that
Speaker 3: kind of dragged him down, which is contract. He's getting
Speaker 3: paid twenty five million this season. If the Giants ate
Speaker 3: that down, which I think they should, all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: like Robby Ray shoots up this list, if you don't
Speaker 3: have to pay whatever it is, you know, eight million
Speaker 3: dollars for the rest of the season of Robby Ray.
Speaker 3: And let's just say they eat five of that and
Speaker 3: now it's okay. I got to pay three million dollars
Speaker 3: in prospect, and then I think Robbie Ray is above
Speaker 3: Trevor Rodgers. I think he might be above Bieber and
Speaker 3: theoretically above par Alta as well. So the money is
Speaker 3: what kind of slid him down the rankings. I do
Speaker 3: have a couple of Freddy Peralta things that I want
Speaker 3: to ask you guys about, But if you want to
Speaker 3: run out the rest of the list, then I can
Speaker 3: give you a couple of my questions here.
Speaker 1: I think I'm good on the rest of the list
Speaker 1: Rogers and Singer. Again, it's a little too hot and
Speaker 1: too cold at points for me. I know Singer is
Speaker 1: on a hot stretch. I appreciate Ray for pointing that
Speaker 1: out in the YouTube comments here, but Singer Man again,
Speaker 1: it was very not good at the beginning of the year,
Speaker 1: and that just scares me.
Speaker 4: He's more of the guy that gets you to the playoffs,
Speaker 4: like in terms of like you just need someone to
Speaker 4: get on the mound, give you innings, and then in
Speaker 4: the playoffs it's like mop up the yeah, yeah you
Speaker 4: we don't need young leverage, and those guys are valuable.
Speaker 3: We see it all the time.
Speaker 4: At the deadline, those guys, you know, be moved and
Speaker 4: get at least some sort of return. Rogers is a
Speaker 4: little bit different where I could see if he's clicking,
Speaker 4: I can give him a playoff start. Right, We've seen
Speaker 4: him be fantastic, so I think his ceilings a little
Speaker 4: litle bit higher and that's where it becomes interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, fake take us to Freddie Parlton.
Speaker 3: Okay, one last note for everyone was curious about rental starters.
Speaker 3: Brady Singer just got the spot. But there's three guys
Speaker 3: that are the same picture to me. Brady Singer, Jack Flaherty,
Speaker 3: Tyler Mallley. All of them I think could get moved.
Speaker 3: But it's just because teams need pitching. That pat getting
Speaker 3: to per Alta, I did a show on this last week.
Speaker 3: If Matt Arnold and David Stern's get on the phone,
Speaker 3: you think they just say, hey, let's do trade backs
Speaker 3: and go Jet Williams for par Alta straight up and
Speaker 3: just call it a day, because Jet's not having the
Speaker 3: best year in the Brewers system for the Mets. Optically
Speaker 3: it's not great. But at the same time, then you
Speaker 3: pretty much traded Brandon Sprote for Tobias Myers and you
Speaker 3: get Jet back in your system that needs some infield help.
Speaker 3: So that's just a crazy trade idea that I kind
Speaker 3: of love, and I'm curious what your guys thoughts is
Speaker 3: on it.
Speaker 4: I asked you when we talked about this, is like,
Speaker 4: can you optically do that? Can you survive that? It
Speaker 4: almost feels like like a rebate, like you just getting
Speaker 4: a partial refund quickly.
Speaker 1: It's like when game stop. It's like I played it once,
Speaker 1: but here's eight dollars.
Speaker 4: That's the hard part. And I wonder if the Brewers
Speaker 4: at this point, like one side maybe they'd say, hey,
Speaker 4: we we really think we can get them right. But
Speaker 4: the other side is like, I know they were very
Speaker 4: excited to acquire Jet. I know Jet hasn't had the great,
Speaker 4: the greatest yri ever either. But they seem very hell
Speaker 4: bent on acquiring Jet in that deal, so I would
Speaker 4: struggle to see how they would then trade him back.
Speaker 4: So I'm gonna I'm gonna say no, I don't think
Speaker 4: it's possible.
Speaker 3: I just wonder if the Mets can get a prospect
Speaker 3: as good as Jet, well as you're Freddy Prault at
Speaker 3: this point. But I'll sit here and wait on that. Uh.
Speaker 3: The other part of this, there's a guy that's likely
Speaker 3: a rental if the Padres put him on the table.
Speaker 3: And people who read this article are gonna be surprised
Speaker 3: that I put Michael King below Freddie PEARLTA in trade value,
Speaker 3: and I want to explain that really quick and see
Speaker 3: your guys thoughts. So King's making nine million is ye,
Speaker 3: it's a super weird contract. I have no idea what
Speaker 3: he got this year onion pots or whatever. But what
Speaker 3: I do know, if he opts in, it's two years
Speaker 3: fifty eight million. Also, if he opts out, he gets
Speaker 3: a five million dollar buyout. So I just the way
Speaker 3: that Peller has structured these contracts Pavetta and King, it
Speaker 3: makes them very hard to trade. So this would be
Speaker 3: a guy again likely a rental. He's pitching well enough
Speaker 3: that he should just opt out and an acquiring team
Speaker 3: shouldn't worry about it except for, oh, I got to
Speaker 3: pay him five million after the season, and also if
Speaker 3: he gets hurt with the guy that has had an
Speaker 3: injury history. Now he's opting into fifty eight million for
Speaker 3: the next two years after this, and I think that
Speaker 3: kind of makes him, I don't want to say, untradeable,
Speaker 3: but very unlikely.
Speaker 4: To be moved. Here's the downside. It's kind of that
Speaker 4: it's not full poison pill, but it's it's poison pill
Speaker 4: adjacent there. I feel like where Yeah, I mean if
Speaker 4: the Padres said we'll cover the buyout if he opts out,
Speaker 4: maybe with them, why would the Padres do that? Like
Speaker 4: maybe the new ownership would. But the sale isn't even official.
Speaker 4: There's so many moving parts there. I don't even know.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 4: I do think that that's enough. But you had him
Speaker 4: behind who was that?
Speaker 3: So I put and ended up being Parolta at twenty one,
Speaker 3: King at twenty two, Bieber at twenty three, So he
Speaker 3: was like right in the middle there, and I thought
Speaker 3: about putting them above those guys, and I just think
Speaker 3: that I still think that even though per Alta has
Speaker 3: been terrible, that there's going to be a team that says, Okay,
Speaker 3: I have to pay him two million dollars and it's
Speaker 3: Freddy Peralta. We can get him right where it's just
Speaker 3: compared to, hey, I got a pay king five million,
Speaker 3: I fije ops out, and I'm taking on so much
Speaker 3: risk if something happens where I just I kind of
Speaker 3: think that that Peralta still has more value. And I'd
Speaker 3: almost s like I even labored on Bieber, but it's
Speaker 3: like Bieber's been hurt this year, so that's where I said,
Speaker 3: all right, he's still a little more valuable than that.
Speaker 3: But I just like you said it is it's kind
Speaker 3: of poison pillar, Jason. It's it's really tough for a
Speaker 3: team to take on that level of risk.
Speaker 4: I think that's fair because I'd just be nervous every
Speaker 4: start if an often injured guy gets hurt. Your hostage
Speaker 4: now for the next season, and you just tied up
Speaker 4: a ton of money.
Speaker 1: Yep, all right, that was our rental starter conversation. We
Speaker 1: are gonna end with bullpen arms and why there might
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Speaker 1: Ripping the shell on peanut and just taking it straight
Speaker 1: to the mouth is absolutely insane from him.
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Speaker 1: To full full.
Speaker 4: Didn't crack the shell eight the peanut crazy plat crazy.
Speaker 1: It's like eating an egg, like just getting the shell,
Speaker 1: taking it on, all right, just popping it down at it.
Speaker 1: It does seem kind of dangerous. All right. We're tying
Speaker 1: a ball on the show with bullpen help and the
Speaker 1: relievers that could be available, but it's tough to know
Speaker 1: which relievers are available right now. Ryan Finkelstein, how did
Speaker 1: you interpret the reliever market. It's near impossible for me
Speaker 1: to look at it and say, outside of the met
Speaker 1: relievers and the Rocky relievers and the Giant relievers, allegedly,
Speaker 1: there are some other people available. I have no idea
Speaker 1: how that works.
Speaker 3: Last year we saw Mason Miller get traded, Juan Durang
Speaker 3: to get traded, David Bednar, Ryan Helson, Griffin, Jacks, Louis Varlin,
Speaker 3: Camilla de Evalt, Tyler Rogers, Kyle Finnigan. There's not those
Speaker 3: names in this market. If you look at the upcoming
Speaker 3: free agent class, the best pictures are on good teams,
Speaker 3: so Roldest Chapman, David Bednar, right as Elliglesias. And then
Speaker 3: you look at the rental list we're coming out with.
Speaker 3: As we've alluded to the rental starters that's going to
Speaker 3: be in our for us, We're gonna do one on
Speaker 3: rental bats. We couldn't come up with ten rental relievers
Speaker 3: because there's not that many, And all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: you're getting to guys like I think maybe JG. Brubricker
Speaker 3: might be a rental like yeah, JG. Brubrick, Like it's
Speaker 3: just and even like Antonio's sense of tel has been
Speaker 3: good this year, but he still has a starter contract,
Speaker 3: so there's still.
Speaker 1: Caleb Ferguson's value went down, mind you, Caleb Ferguson's value
Speaker 1: went down the other.
Speaker 3: Day for for cussing out the umpire. Yeah, is as
Speaker 3: bad as as Valdez hitting his catcher. What do you think?
Speaker 1: I don't think that's as bad, but I think it's
Speaker 1: pretty bad.
Speaker 3: But yeah, there's not a lot on this market. And
Speaker 3: that's where I think if the Padres wanted to all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, they put Mason Miller and Adrian Morehane
Speaker 3: on the market, and they don't have to go into
Speaker 3: some crazy you know, rebuild or any any crazy fire sale.
Speaker 3: I mean they can trade those two guys and I
Speaker 3: mean still theoretically even compete this season. So that's a
Speaker 3: team at thick and corner of the market. And then
Speaker 3: the Mets, I think they're going to do really well
Speaker 3: in their relievers. You know, Mintor and Railey are gonna
Speaker 3: get moved. Those are arguably the best two rentals on
Speaker 3: the block. And then you have Luke Weaver with a
Speaker 3: year and a half of control, and I think they
Speaker 3: might even get overwhelmed on Juascar Brazabam. He's got three
Speaker 3: and a half years of control. The Mets basically control
Speaker 3: this guy's career because I don't know what happened when
Speaker 3: he was with the Marlins. The service time is a
Speaker 3: riddle to me. He has been pitching for a long
Speaker 3: time and he still has three and a half. Like,
Speaker 3: it doesn't make sense, but I think he had a
Speaker 3: lot of visa issues.
Speaker 4: I remember very often whenever I was around the ballpark
Speaker 4: and spring training, one of the most common questions it'd
Speaker 4: be like, is braza Ban making it? Do we know
Speaker 4: where Braza Ban's at yet? And fortunately ironed that all out.
Speaker 4: But yeah, he's gonna be under team control into thirty six.
Speaker 3: Just read this, though it doesn't make sense. Thirty two
Speaker 3: innings in twenty twenty two, fifty eight and two thirds
Speaker 3: and twenty three, fifty one and two thirds, twenty four
Speaker 3: sixty three innings last year, forty seven and two thirds
Speaker 3: this year, and he still has three and a half
Speaker 3: years of team control. He's arbitration eligible for the first time.
Speaker 3: Lect you know, this year was his first Rberry. He's
Speaker 3: a super two guy, arbitration eligible for three more years,
Speaker 3: and he still has an option.
Speaker 1: That doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 3: And he's thirty six years old. I feel bad for
Speaker 3: the guy. I mean, he's just never gonna get paid.
Speaker 3: But again, in this market, the Mets my appeal to
Speaker 3: get a return that you that would shock you for brazenbon,
Speaker 3: but he's he's under control for so much that I
Speaker 3: don't even know if they move him. Those other arms though,
Speaker 3: I think Weaver, Mentor and Rali are probably.
Speaker 1: All gone, Yeah, I hear you on that. No, the
Speaker 1: Mets absolutely controlled the reliever market. I think that's abundantly clear.
Speaker 1: Rayley is an interesting one to me, where it's like
Speaker 1: it feels like every single buyer could be in on
Speaker 1: someone like Rayley or mintor uh with WEA were obviously
Speaker 1: the big dogs are gonna be hunting that because you
Speaker 1: do take on a oh let's see, is that uh
Speaker 1: he said, a seven figure reliever, an eight figure reliever.
Speaker 1: You take on an eight figure reliever next year because
Speaker 1: he'd be making about eleven million dollars, so Weaver, it
Speaker 1: seems like the market would shrink just a little bit.
Speaker 1: But with a guy like Rayley, a lefty specialist. It
Speaker 1: feels like that is a desired bullpen roll for so
Speaker 1: many teams that are solid right now. So yeah, like
Speaker 1: middle of the pack relief market. The Mets absolutely control
Speaker 1: the other names that jump out on this list. I like,
Speaker 1: I don't even know, to be honest with you, man,
Speaker 1: I guess Holderman in Cleveland because he's excess for them.
Speaker 1: But Holderman's been really good this year and he's back
Speaker 1: to throwing ninety nine to one hundred mile an hour sinkers.
Speaker 1: So that's another name that jumps to the forefront of
Speaker 1: my mind. But it's gonna be boring and super underwhelming
Speaker 1: on the reliever front.
Speaker 4: I want to shout out TJ and tone Crazy just
Speaker 4: the amount of elbow arm issues he's had to overcome
Speaker 4: and the fact that he's having the success that he's
Speaker 4: having at the big league level through all that, I
Speaker 4: think he's an interesting guy. You get a year and
Speaker 4: a half through and a half minor league deal, but
Speaker 4: referencing the article, it's a year and a half of
Speaker 4: control through arbitration. I mean Antone would be a guy
Speaker 4: that also elite clubhouse guy. I think teams would love
Speaker 4: to add to the fold there, and I think the
Speaker 4: Reds are very colely going to get a cash in
Speaker 4: on him. I just think that's a fun one and
Speaker 4: a fun story there. But I think all roads lead
Speaker 4: back to Mason Miller and what the heck they're going
Speaker 4: to do. Yeah, yeah, that's.
Speaker 3: It's it's crazy with me. I just the question is
Speaker 3: that today I think it came out. I think it
Speaker 3: was the Athletic Report. They want to top one hundred
Speaker 3: prospects for Mason Miller. You know, I feel like there's
Speaker 3: a team that would do that. No, I mean it's
Speaker 3: still you know, and it's the one thing too for
Speaker 3: the padres is like Mason Miller now isn't too expensive,
Speaker 3: but he's going to make a ton of money through arbitration,
Speaker 3: so it's not even like, you know, he's not going
Speaker 3: to cost anything. He made four million first year of
Speaker 3: arb and he's turning in one of the best seasons
Speaker 3: like ever for a reliever. By the end of arbitration,
Speaker 3: he could be looking at like legitimate closer money like
Speaker 3: he could be He's probably going to set a new
Speaker 3: benchmark for what relievers are going to make in arbitration,
Speaker 3: and like that final year in twenty two nine. Is
Speaker 3: it crazy to think he's close to twenty million by then.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's crazy.
Speaker 4: He's going to be the new precedent setter without a doubt.
Speaker 4: I also think like that it's a good point jack
Speaker 4: with Weaver with how many people are going to be
Speaker 4: lining up to take that on. But I think because
Speaker 4: of what the market has now become, even for relievers,
Speaker 4: and how good Weaver's been, and if Mason Miller is
Speaker 4: not available or you just have to give up the
Speaker 4: Kings Ransms, that it is that's the most impactful guy
Speaker 4: that you can add. And you set up your team
Speaker 4: for next year too, where if you were planning to
Speaker 4: shop in the free agent market, like you're gonna have
Speaker 4: to pay more than that for Weaver or or reliever
Speaker 4: of Weaver's caliber next year. So it sets you up
Speaker 4: to where you have a run this year and you
Speaker 4: have a run next year. It's still I think a
Speaker 4: really reasonable number. That's so I think Weaver is going
Speaker 4: to bring in a sneaky haul because it's not going
Speaker 4: to be nearly what Mason Miller requires. But there's gonna
Speaker 4: be a lot of teams that are immediately priced out
Speaker 4: of that and say, but we're willing to make a splash,
Speaker 4: And I think there's gonna be a fun bidding war
Speaker 4: on Weaver. Where I think it's interesting with Mason Miller
Speaker 4: is you have this unprecedented opportunity to make the game
Speaker 4: eight innings for your team, and we've fully seen that.
Speaker 4: And I know people are gonna say, well, Prower gave
Speaker 4: up too much, blah blah blah, and we all knew
Speaker 4: what Mason Miller was capable of. But Mason Miller proceeded
Speaker 4: to go and he started it with the athletics, but
Speaker 4: proceeded to go to the padres and reach new heights.
Speaker 4: So yes, he lost a year of control, but he's
Speaker 4: also become better and more dominant to the point where
Speaker 4: it's like he's so far and away the best reliever
Speaker 4: in the game, and so far and away I think
Speaker 4: one of the best relievers we've seen in a really
Speaker 4: long time. That I think there's a very valid case
Speaker 4: from AJ Prewer that's like, I don't think he's much
Speaker 4: less valuable than he was when I acquired him. And
Speaker 4: even if you think I overpaid, I still want eighty
Speaker 4: to ninety cents on the dollar for what I paid,
Speaker 4: And will a team have a Leo Devreze to give up.
Speaker 4: Probably not, But if you have two top one hundred guys,
Speaker 4: I don't think it's that far off from Leo Devrees
Speaker 4: and then a slew of solid forty to maybe a
Speaker 4: couple forty five future value guys. So I'm just curious
Speaker 4: to see if anyone makes that splash. I think that
Speaker 4: there's a good chance they two, because even if you
Speaker 4: don't make it happen this year, you have so much control.
Speaker 4: You have a guy that's gonna bring Not often do
Speaker 4: closers bring that level of eyeballs to your ball club too.
Speaker 4: I think what he brings from an extentment from a
Speaker 4: fan perspective, I think, just generally speaking, this is a
Speaker 4: star that you're bringing to the fold. And it's not
Speaker 4: often that you can say that about a closer. But
Speaker 4: Mason Miller is gonna sell us some jerseys like he's
Speaker 4: gonna be a guy that his intro is gonna be
Speaker 4: part of the reason why people go to games and
Speaker 4: stay beyond the fact that you're getting a guy that
Speaker 4: legitimately ends the game almost every single time. In the
Speaker 4: ninth and we'll do that now for four playoff runs
Speaker 4: would be four playoff runs that you would.
Speaker 2: Have with him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hate to plant this thought, but I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about like the best possible prospect that could be going
Speaker 1: back to them. And I really don't think the Dodgers
Speaker 1: are in the Mason Miller hunt at all. But is
Speaker 1: host way to Paula too much for Mason Miller at
Speaker 1: this point? Probably don't think so.
Speaker 4: The crazy thing is today they could say, well, we
Speaker 4: don't want to go to Paula. We'll just give you
Speaker 4: hope in Cantaro or we'll give you hope in s
Speaker 4: Seroda or whatever, and like even then proer, like, how
Speaker 4: do you say no to that? The only thing was
Speaker 4: would be in division is the problem. But for the
Speaker 4: sake of just like value, I think it's pretty crazy.
Speaker 4: The other one that I don't think we'd ever see
Speaker 4: because I just don't see Brezel operating that way. But
Speaker 4: the Red Sox have so much starting pitching that you
Speaker 4: could get big league arms, like, you could get multiple
Speaker 4: big league arms, you could get tons of prospect talent
Speaker 4: if you want it as well. And then the Chapman
Speaker 4: to Mason Miller thing in the eighth and ninth. Yeah,
Speaker 4: would be the most ridiculous thing in I think we've
Speaker 4: ever seen when it comes to the eight to nine combination.
Speaker 4: And I think for the Padres, you'd be able to
Speaker 4: get some starters. Now, like, where do some of these
Speaker 4: guys fit in? Patrick Sanderval could be a throw in
Speaker 4: and he's probably one of the better starters right now
Speaker 4: immediately with the way he's looking. But I mean, you know,
Speaker 4: if Connolly early is healthy, with some of the other
Speaker 4: guys that they've got, Jake Bennett's been fantastic, and then
Speaker 4: you throw in some top level you know, prospects as well,
Speaker 4: that helps you now and later. I just I think
Speaker 4: that could be an interesting one, and I think you
Speaker 4: could try to theorize that with several other teams and
Speaker 4: it could be very fascinating. Could that be, you know,
Speaker 4: a route for some of these other ball clubs that
Speaker 4: you know, don't want to trade from the farm too much,
Speaker 4: but have starting pitching to be able to do it.
Speaker 1: I want to end the show on one wild card team.
Speaker 1: Here in the Miller conversation, Uh, you guys know where
Speaker 1: Miller's from.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Miller, He's from I know, went to Gardner Webb,
Speaker 4: but I don't know if it was because it was close.
Speaker 1: To home or not. He's from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Pittsburgh needs
Speaker 1: bullpen help really bad. Charrington is effectively operating for his
Speaker 1: gig right now, and I'm just thinking of package leading
Speaker 1: with Florentino like Seth Fernandez wouldn't be going anywhere. No,
Speaker 1: but if Florentino leads with another young big leaguer, that's good.
Speaker 3: I mean, they can they can't afford the four million,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 1: See I think they could for a Pittsburgh guy.
Speaker 3: I have another team I'd want to throw out there,
Speaker 3: and that's Seattle.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: I One of the guys that's ranked really low on
Speaker 3: my top fifty here in trade deadline value is the
Speaker 3: Louis Castillo. Because you're looking at twenty four point one
Speaker 3: to five million next year and then a kind of
Speaker 3: a poison pill ish option of twenty five million investing
Speaker 3: for twenty twenty eight if it's one hundred and eighty innings,
Speaker 3: and I just don't want to be the team that
Speaker 3: tries to manipulate his innings next year, so it doesn't
Speaker 3: get that option. So I just don't know if Castillo
Speaker 3: has that much trade value. Would Seattle say, you know what,
Speaker 3: We're just we're better off keeping Castillo as our five
Speaker 3: starter and trading one of our young arms for Mason Miller.
Speaker 3: And I think like that that's where I go as
Speaker 3: a team, that makes perfect sense to make the move
Speaker 3: because then if you're if you're Preller, because I think
Speaker 3: the one thing we have to remember a J Preller,
Speaker 3: I think thought he was going to turn Mason Miller
Speaker 3: into a starting pitcher. And then Mason Miller got there
Speaker 3: and said, I'm gonna make plenty of money in arbitration.
Speaker 3: I'm not getting hurt. No, I'm a closer. And so
Speaker 3: that's and he's been amazing at that. But I think
Speaker 3: this would be a way to kind of get what
Speaker 3: you might have won it in the first place, which
Speaker 3: is a controllable young arm.
Speaker 1: And I keep on bringing Kirby man like Kirby for
Speaker 1: Mason Miller. How does that sound?
Speaker 4: Yeah, And you could get more with the control. You
Speaker 4: could probably get them to attack something on there and
Speaker 4: get some position player help because there's a lot of
Speaker 4: good position players in that system that I think they'd
Speaker 4: be happy to bring in. And again with the way
Speaker 4: the Mariners drafted I'd be happy to bring in a
Speaker 4: prospect there. I do want to shout out though the
Speaker 4: Pirates thing. If it's Bubba and Florentino, you just say, Bubba,
Speaker 4: change of scenery. Set's gonna get up here sooner than
Speaker 4: we thought. It's hard to say no to that.
Speaker 1: Come on, man, I don't know, let's get frisky. You
Speaker 1: guys got anything else? Heck of a preview, man, I
Speaker 1: appreciate think you and Clay really putting all this together.
Speaker 3: I just hope they make If they make the Mason
Speaker 3: Miller trade, the Pirates are going to control the twenty
Speaker 3: twenty eight deadline with Skins and Miller. Are you kidding?
Speaker 4: I'm just I'm just hoping Preller goes crazy and saves
Speaker 4: this deadline, because otherwise I could see it being a
Speaker 4: little tame.
Speaker 3: Well, one quick note on I will say, as far
Speaker 3: as selling, not only do they have Miller more hone,
Speaker 3: they also could really get value for ty France. I
Speaker 3: just want to said, like ty France is making nothing,
Speaker 3: He's crushing lefties. He's a really good chip, and I
Speaker 3: honestly think if they leaned into it, they could even
Speaker 3: get something for someone like Gavin Sheet. So that's a
Speaker 3: team like if they lost six games, you know, six
Speaker 3: of the next eight or something, they're going to the
Speaker 3: deadlines getting if they decide to lean into it, I
Speaker 3: think they would get a lot. The only issue there
Speaker 3: is just like does Preller think that he has, you know,
Speaker 3: five more years this job? Or is he thinking like,
Speaker 3: I have no idea what this new ownership, how long
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be here? Screwed? I'm just going for it,
Speaker 3: which it feels like more of a Preller move.
Speaker 1: Yeah, certainly. So all right, I really appreciate everybody tuning
Speaker 1: into this one. Such a fun episode. Plenty more trade
Speaker 1: deadline stuff to happen over the next two weeks again,
Speaker 1: and we'll be Trade deadline is on Monday, August third,
Speaker 1: I believe, six pm Eastern time, So it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a fun one to monitor. That's all we got. You guys,
Speaker 1: got anything else? You gotta plug anything or no.
Speaker 3: I got the article and all the other good stuff
Speaker 3: we got. We've got a lot of deadline stuff coming.
Speaker 4: And tonight as we're listening to this, we'll be doing
Speaker 4: a minor league baseball simulcast on our YouTube. Come watch
Speaker 4: out with Us're gonna whip around some minor league games.
Speaker 1: And have some fun tomorrow night. We're live right now,
Speaker 1: so people are getting this on Wednesday. Yeah, tomorrow, excuse me, tomorrow,
Speaker 1: we'll be well. I was doing was plugging on the
Speaker 1: call up for the next day, but we'll be doing that.
Speaker 4: I think it'll be a lot of fun, uh, breaking
Speaker 4: down the minor leaguers, all the will of the games
Speaker 4: are happening. It's gonna be a lot of fun. And
Speaker 4: then also we're live on Whatnot. Link is in the
Speaker 4: episod description. If you've not been on what Not before,
Speaker 4: we're ripping tops. Chrome just came out today. It's loaded,
Speaker 4: loaded checklist wise. If you haven't been on there before,
Speaker 4: use that link. You got twenty five dollars to apply
Speaker 4: to our store, which could get you pretty much a
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Speaker 1: Absolutely love it all right. We will talk to you
Speaker 1: guys tomorrow