WEBVTT - QLS Classic: James "JT" Taylor 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.520 Quest Loft Show is a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:12.520 What's Up. It's June and that means it's Black Music Month, 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:15.520 and every year on Questlove Supreme and now The Quest 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:18.520 Loft Show, we honor it by bringing you an episode 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:22.480 every day that celebrates black music, its history, and its impact. 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:25.400 My team and I have selected episodes from our archive 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:29.600 that we feel are specially relevant to the celebration, offering history, 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:33.280 insight a little fun along the way. So be on 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:36.960 the lookout for four brand new episodes throughout June, each 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:40.360 connected to the past, president future of black music. We're 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:46.440 going to highlight trailblazers, innovators, ultraconduits, and revolutionaries whose word 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:50.880 continues to shape the world around us. Happy June, Happy 0:00:50.920 --> 0:01:02.240 Black Music Month. We've been waiting, ladies and jump and 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:09.679 welcome to another episode, a special episode of Copts Love Supreme. 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:12.600 We've been waiting for this. We've been waiting for this. 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:19.039 You know what, Steve, I'm actually more excited for the 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:22.080 twelve year old version of you right now. 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:27.400 Yes, I am super excited to talk to this man 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:29.360 and thank him for everybody who's never had a bar 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:31.200 Metz for before. This is going to be amazing. 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:35.880 I guess this is my Christmas gift to you, man, this, 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:38.600 this is my Shaka Khan gift to you. I got 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:42.200 you the King of all bar Mitzvahs exactly. 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.120 I never heard that title, but I'll accept that one. 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:49.480 Oh so talk about it. That's great, all right. I 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:53.040 just treat this like a movie. Even before I introduce 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:58.440 what this show is, I just have to ask our guests, 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:02.200 who I've not introduced yet, do you know the true 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:07.440 story of how the song Celebration got written? Has Ronald 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:10.200 Bill will tell you the story of how it inspired. 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:14.560 Him, not totally, but I have my own version of 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:18.440 it when I'm through the experience. Okay, well maybe I 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:19.079 need to hear this. 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:22.720 I'm under the impression based on Okay, so I used 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:25.720 to Oh God, ladies and gentlemen, this quest love a 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:29.160 quest love Supreme. Of course, I'm here with Sugar, Steven 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.360 and our guest today. I don't even want to waste 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:37.519 a long, arduous introduction because you know my introductions will 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:41.440 be nineteen minutes. I'm sitting here with the God, the 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:46.560 King of all bar Mismas, the God the most velvet voice, Yo, 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:53.679 Supreme Jesus Christ, like my nat King, Cole the Voice 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:57.560 James J. T. Taylor, formerly of Cool in the Game. 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:00.400 Hi brother, thank you. 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:01.519 All right, So here's the deal. 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:05.160 And I believe I might have told this on Robert's 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:08.200 story as well, but at the time when I invited 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:13.320 Ronald Brother Beyon Collie Beyon. Back when I was teaching 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:19.920 at NYU with Harry Weider, we once had brother Ronald Bell, saxophonist, 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:24.120 primary songwriter Cool in the Gang, and he told us 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:29.680 the story of how he wrote Celebrations. So basically riding 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:33.160 high off the third wave of what the band is 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:36.840 about the experience. Of course, if you're fans of the band, 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:42.200 you know they came to it with a lot of jazz, soul, 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:45.080 more on jazz, a lot of tribe called quest samples 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:48.360 came from that wave. And then in seventy four a 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:52.720 joke sort of mocking soul Mikosa winds up being like 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.920 one of the most pivotal funk songs of the seventies. 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:59.360 So they had a seventies wave, and then doing a 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:03.760 disco horse open sesame on the Saturn Night Fever soundtrack 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:05.040 that was kind of their third wave. 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:07.520 And now they're about to start the. 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:12.880 Hit making wave and of course, fresh off the success 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:18.320 of their Ladies' Night single and the subsequent album of 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:22.880 that same name, they're on tour and they happen to 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:25.800 be in the Bay Area, and I believe that they 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.520 arrived in town the day before on a Friday, to 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:32.920 do some local record stores and signings, because now you know, 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:34.000 the heat is back on. 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:37.479 The heats back, and. 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:41.960 Brother Ronald tells me that the promoter who's bringing you 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:46.080 guys to the particular venue, playhouse in the Bay Area, 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:49.760 has another show happening that night and would he like 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:50.359 to attend? 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:52.000 Would you guys like to attend? 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:56.080 And that is when the Prince and Rick James show 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:02.280 come to this venue. And what winds up happening is 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:05.080 Prince goes on first, and at this moment, Prince has 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:08.560 the number one song in the country on the Soul charts. 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:11.920 Without want to be a lover, right, and Ronald says 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:14.440 that he really wasn't all that familiar with Prince, like 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.800 he heard about him, but he really didn't pay attention and 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:21.440 he definitely wasn't familiar with the song. However, he was 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:26.919 highly impressed at how within two seconds everybody just screamed 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:29.120 and lost their minds. It wasn't just like you know, 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:30.400 like everyone. 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:32.760 Right, it could have been. 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:34.599 Okay. 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:37.400 So he's more impressed with that. 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:42.440 So that sort of brings out the antennas in his brain. 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:44.960 It's like, YO, pay attention to the song for that. 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:49.320 So he's just pay attention to the song and Prince 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:51.800 finishes is set. It's like a twenty minute change over 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:58.400 for Rick James. And Ronald asked the promoter, YO, run 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:00.400 me backstays real quick to one of them dress rooms. 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.080 There as a piano in it, and there was a 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:08.960 spare room. And Ronald sits at the table and he 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:11.680 starts notating what he thought he just heard Prince do, 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:20.839 which is I want to be a lover. He writes 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.280 those chorus down and he stares at this chorus and 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:28.680 as most songwriters do. Another way to get to sort 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:33.479 of squeeze juice from a used fruit is you figure 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:37.000 out different ways to flip a song and rewrite it again. 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:37.960 People do it all the. 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:39.120 Time, like all the time. 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:44.640 Fleetwood Mac famously on their Real It still says Spinner's 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:48.560 Idea number two. Their favorite song was I'll be Around, 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.400 and thus they made dreams on rumors. 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:51.960 About I'll be around. 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:56.960 So anyway, he's looking at the notes and suddenly he's like, yo, 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:17.040 let me play this backwards now, Dan backwards is then. 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:13.880 So he notates. 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:18.680 He notates the music and he's like, all right, I 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:20.760 got the idea. I'm gonna go rock to watch Rick's 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.880 James I believe when you guys got finished the tour. 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:28.400 It's like three weeks later and he's gonna either demo 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:30.000 or submit the ideas to you guys. 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:32.920 But he's like, wait, I gotta make this a complete song. 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:36.559 Only got a groove. I want to do a complete song. 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:41.680 And at a bridge to it, and he was running. 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:43.720 He didn't have any nothing that was coming to mind. 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:45.640 He looks on the table on top of the piano 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:51.679 and there is a cash box magazine and he opens 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.400 up the charts. He goes right to the pop charts 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:59.320 and looks for the highest charting black song. So this 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:03.760 particular issue, Rock with You by Michael Jackson was number five. 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:08.280 He knew Rock with You well and when he wrote 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:10.480 the bridge word, dude, it's time to. 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:11.840 Come together together. 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:17.440 It's the same chords as girl, close your eyes, let. 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:18.880 This rhythm get into you. 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:24.320 Every one around, come on, come on that that to 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:28.840 me was one of the most genius stories I've ever 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:30.520 heard of a song being constructed. 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:33.240 Well, he was. He was always like that. He was. 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:35.600 I called him to feel this leader, you know, because 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:39.440 he would do things like that and sometimes we would 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:39.800 just hear it. 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:41.160 We said, where did that come from? 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:44.160 And we just you know, to ourselves, and sometimes he 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:46.600 would you know, regurgitate why he did it or why 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:50.560 it came. But my understanding was that when it was there, 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:53.560 you know, because when people bring all everybody would bring 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:56.120 things in all the time, ideas everything, you know, little 0:08:56.200 --> 0:09:00.119 lyrics here, are guitar player, that guitar part here, And 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:03.920 it was more of a celebration of the resurrection, like 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.240 Ladies Night came out, big record and nobody knew what 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.960 was cool in the gang because they heard me, you know. 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:11.760 But we said, well, how are we going to follow 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:15.360 that up? So if you listen to Ladies Night, come on, 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:22.559 let's all celebrate. It was already preordained that we were 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:25.720 going to do celebration. Now, I don't know if that 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:28.000 influenced him, but I know when I knew it, we're 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:30.640 going to be celebration. I thought back, I said, you 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:32.840 know that spiritual thing starts hitting you and say like 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:36.680 we were like foreseeing this, Yeah, we said, come on, celebrate, 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:39.280 so now let's sell all celebrate. And then with the 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:42.520 group going through that down period from like seventy five 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:45.360 I think to seventy eight or something like that. Yes, 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:47.880 thirty nine, there was a drought and they told me 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:49.640 the story that you know, the record lay was going 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.480 to drop him in all that stuff, and I said, okay, well, 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:56.280 what we're gonna do? You know that came later, That 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:59.840 question came later, but yeah, so there was like a 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.680 like I said, resurrection as well, and we had gotten 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:06.040 over that first Ladies and Night album and that was big, 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:08.320 and so how we're gonna do it again? And people 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:10.960 were actually doubting us. You know, it was more like, 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:13.840 you know, I want the old old cool to gang. 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:16.520 Yeah, I want, I want to talk about it. I 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:18.880 want I want to talk about that. Wait, I got 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:21.320 to start to begin it. So I just wanted to 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:23.240 ask if you knew about that story. But that was 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:24.520 my that was my cold opening. 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:26.920 That was that was the first I've heard of it 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:29.640 that in depth anyway. But I think again, it doesn't 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:30.319 surprise me. 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:33.200 Because you know, he was like that man. 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:37.440 He was. He was a special kind of guy from 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.600 a many different angles, many different angles, but you know, 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:45.480 a sweetheart, and I would say he was more. He 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:48.280 was a collector. He was a jazz guy. But you know, 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:52.120 anything was possible, you know, if if it was there. 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:54.280 And I think when he even heard when he heard 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:56.480 me sing, you know, he was. 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:59.920 Just like, uh, there goes that celebration. 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:06.000 Okay, wait, we just we had a technical difficulty. 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:08.880 We just rewinded. 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:11.400 Yeah, but Steve had punch line in the century. He 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:12.960 was like, well, there goes this celebration. 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:16.800 You know, we got to write this stuff down. This 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:18.720 is the song, you know. Yeah. 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:23.920 It was either that or la oh no oh no. 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:27.679 All right. So wait, let me ask you, because we're 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:29.840 going to get to all these things. Uh, but let 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:33.800 me ask you. What was your very first musical memory. 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:38.480 My first musical memory was I had to be like six, 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:42.240 because I remember we had just gotten my first television. 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.560 I was maybe five or six, and I remember being 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:50.120 in the kitchen and looking through to the living room 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:53.880 and my grandfather bought the television and when it turned 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:56.560 it on, there was a group there. Still I don't 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:58.679 know who they were, but I just knew that they 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:01.440 were dressed like like a five man group, and they 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:03.480 were just looking beautiful, and I did. I didn't even 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:06.840 go to the television. I just stood back and watched them. 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:09.040 It just kind of missed me, rather like looking like, 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:11.000 you know, the puppy, you know, with the head, you know. 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:15.960 And my sister I had eight sisters, by the way, 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:20.880 so oh no, that's why I understand women. A house 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.600 for of women, you know, so I know how to move, 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:28.880 you know. But she entered into a contest on the 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.880 Cousin Bruce Show and this has taking it back and 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:36.559 she actually won, and she won that big smiley face 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:39.959 thing or Caussey Cousin Brucy, and she sang a song 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.960 what wasn't Linda Jones, but it was called I Know, 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:48.760 I Know you don't love Me No More, No More, 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.640 something like that, and there was a trumpet solo and 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:54.400 I would like and it was just this is all 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.000 radio wasn't on television, and I would and that radio 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:59.520 was always on top of the refrigerator and I would 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:05.920 stand and mimic the trumpet solo. That was like my part. 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.320 And that was like the first thing that drew me 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:10.760 into music right there. 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:14.679 Wow, so you're one of nine? 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:16.880 Yeah, well, yes, ten. 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:19.480 Actually where do you fall in line? 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:22.959 I say, I was always say that I was looked 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:25.480 up to and looked down on, right in the middle, 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:29.920 because my you know, my sister, you know, we we 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:31.400 had we had a lot of fund. You know, it's 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:34.880 a house full of women going on. And my brother, 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:38.400 he was younger, and I had an older brother who 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:41.360 was you know, my mother's child, but he'd you know, 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:44.800 we were all one family and when we got together, 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:45.560 it was a party. 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:51.040 So are any of your other siblings as gifted? Is 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:52.280 this a musical family? 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:55.920 I will say yeah, because everybody's saying in the church choir. 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:59.280 You know, it was almost like mandatory, you know. My 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:02.920 mom could say, and we were born in the rural 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:04.679 south South Carolina. 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:09.400 What city in Lawrence? L A U are in US? 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:13.240 And for mother, I think she realized that I have 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:15.400 to get my children out of here to get some 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:17.520 type of opportunity going, you know, and this is just 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:18.360 my thoughts. 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:19.920 You know, we really talked about that. 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:23.360 But when we came to Jersey, we actually went to 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.480 Brooklyn first when we maybe both found our way over 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:30.280 to uh In to Hackensack and at the church there 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.640 at the New Hope Church, my sister, you know, we 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:34.120 were all in the choir. As I said, but my 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:39.640 sister Frieda. She actually did a solo once, just her piano, 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:43.800 and I remember that being such a had a great 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:47.040 effect that someone could be standing there with just a 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:50.560 piano singing. And she didn't dress in the robe. She 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.800 actually had a red dress on and with legs show 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:56.000 in the church, you know. But it was it was 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:57.880 it was classy, you know what I mean. And I 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:00.800 remember sitting on the side just watching it and just saying, 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:05.400 just letting it all come in, you know. And but everybody, 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:08.440 you know, it's pretty much as far as the professional side, 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:10.840 they didn't go into that. But but that that church 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:14.400 part was something that was a big influence on all 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:15.160 of us. 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:20.960 Where's your household's attitudes to secular music at the time, Like, 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:24.040 were you allowed to listen to motown or music of 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:24.400 a day? 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:26.080 Oh? Yeah, absolutely? 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.640 My mother you know, I think you know, being listen, 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:31.479 my father passed away. 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.960 When I was nine. Okay, he was like only in 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:35.600 his forties. 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:38.800 Okay, So here's my mother with all these kids, you know, 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:41.040 and her rules were law. 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:43.520 You know, you came home from school. 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:45.200 You did this, you did that, you got up in 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.360 the morning, you did this, you did that. And her 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:49.400 thing was to make sure that we were rounded up, 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.080 that she knew where we were and what we were 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:57.040 pretty much doing. So she had a transistor radio on 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.600 the refrigerator again which no one could touch. 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:01.880 And usually it was either. 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.480 Some gospel going on on there, and sometimes she would 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.840 flip to like some blues or something like that. But 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:13.400 my uncle who yeah, he used to come by and 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:15.800 he would drop off jazz albums. He would first he 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:18.680 would bring jazz albums for me to listen to, and 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:21.520 he would leave him there and I mean he went 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:25.280 from you know, Stil Austin and then also sometimes in 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.600 the mix he would have like a Mom's Maybley album. 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:31.280 So as long as you know, we were in the 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:34.560 house doing our thing, she was pretty much happy. So 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:38.360 you know, it's like we're playing all the motown. She's 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:40.720 in the live in the kitchen doing her thing, and 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:42.920 we were in hip party of dancing. And back then 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:47.600 it was the long rc R C A you know stereo, 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:50.360 you know, the best sound in the world, right, Okay, 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:52.880 you know you're putting the records on and then the 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:55.440 quarter and all that stuff. But as long as we 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.120 were like happy and we were around her, she knew 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.720 we were we were having a good time. She let 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.600 us stretch out. Man, it was and I and that 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:06.200 that also helped speed up my love for music and 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:08.840 and and going into different genres as well. 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:18.640 I'll say that, uh, you're I'm not even gonna say 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:23.280 former employers. Your former group's story has been getting out 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:28.120 in the first three years and they kind of taken 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:32.480 advantage of a social media to tell these like two 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:36.720 minute Instagram animated vignettes of like what their life was 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:41.679 like as teenagers before they formed a band, and the 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:47.080 kind of war stories that Cool was talking about. And George, 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:50.840 you know that were you growing up in that part 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.159 of Jersey because like to hear Cool tell it, like, 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:57.720 I'm like, yo, I'm shocked to still alive, Like the 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:01.560 amount of the gang stories he told me. And you know, 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:05.560 every day fighting for like a quarterbread, Like literally did 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:06.960 you get a quarter to get a loaf. 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:08.040 Of bread to eat that day? 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:08.280 Like? 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:09.119 Yeah? 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:12.439 Was was that? Like what was Jersey? Like what were 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:13.479 your memories of Jersey? 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.840 My memories are fun. I had fond members because we 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:19.840 didn't have that vibe. You know, we had a boy 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.280 fo you know, park scraps, everybody fighting and stuff like that, 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:27.520 but it was it was more like very sparse. You 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:31.600 know in our area. Everybody knew everybody. We didn't have 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:35.360 a real racial problem, you know with the white students 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:38.160 that went to school with us. And when we played 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.120 we had it was within like about two to four 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.720 block area, so you knew everybody. And when it was 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:47.840 some fight, we never had like gangs fighting to get 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:51.159 territory and somebody stealing your money. If somebody stole your money, 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:53.119 you know, there was a fight going on, but it 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:56.400 didn't happen too often because we had this place called 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:03.480 Second Street Park, and it was like our babysitter, our parents' babysitter. 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:06.879 You know, they knew where you were, and we weren't 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:11.520 allowed to like just wander off down downtown or go 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:13.879 to this place. You know, you had to ask and 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.359 to go home to ask to be somewhere. So again, 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:19.800 we didn't have that type of friction. No, not nothing 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:21.840 close to Jersey City. 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:25.640 Do you remember first time that you saw a concert 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:28.920 or performance like who were your north Stars? 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.800 As far as like wow, that's what I want to do. 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:38.600 You're a rare breed of a singer that came out 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:41.600 during the time you came out, because you were kind 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:44.560 of like even to me, you were like an older 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:49.400 brother figure. You weren't my pops like that Teddy Pendergrass, 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.680 you know, like that to me sounded like my pops 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:58.080 and my uncles, whereas like you were kind of like 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:01.600 my cooler older brother, like too old for us to 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:03.920 like live in a bunk bed, you know. 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:09.879 But like I like that varsity jacket level. 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.320 So the thing is is that I know, you know, 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:17.160 by the time the Jackson five come out, you're like eighteen, 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:20.560 So I don't know if it's hitting you the same 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:23.440 way that it's hitting like my seven year old sister, 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:27.520 like where the Jackson vibe was everyone's north star. So 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:30.920 for you, like yeah, because you have a Johnny Mathews voice, 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:35.520 I asked like, were you more akin to like the 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:37.679 styles of Frankie Lyman and the teenagers? 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:40.800 Like yeah, that's good thing you brought that up. Well, 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:43.240 the thing is with my I remember, you know, like 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:45.840 I said, seeing in the church Choie and everything, but 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:50.000 always had a band also, and I would like wherever 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:53.320 there was music happening, in town. I found myself there, 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:57.560 whether it was older guys or you know, guys my age. 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:01.320 And when I had my group through, and we were 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:04.679 like we call the Electoral five, you know, like the 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:07.439 Jackson five, you know before that, you know, when they 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:10.120 were really like young, you know, he had apple jack 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:14.159 hats and the nice shiny suits and everything, and we 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:17.560 were called it Electro five, you know. And so that 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:20.840 that sped everything up. But there was a band in 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:24.800 town called the Phialaa Soul and like the best of soul. 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:27.720 And I know it sounds a little fishy, but you know, 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:32.280 I got to see. I had to get back and 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:35.760 see at least throw one at him, you know. But 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:39.160 but these guys were so good, I'm telling you. They 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:44.240 played Sly as close at things to Sly as Sly himself. 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:48.439 And we used to actually follow them around. And the 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:51.720 thing that was odd was that the Catholic churches, the 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:54.439 diaces would would would allow us to have parties, and 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:58.359 they would have this like little drop offs that they 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:01.720 would go to Lodie Hacking Sack over to this town, 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:04.840 and they had a following and I used to follow them, 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:08.280 and years later I end up being the lead singer 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:13.800 of that same group, So Slyde became the one that 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:17.320 I loved the most, and not just because it was him, 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:23.760 but it's the eclectic part of their band, having clarinet's, trumpets, women, 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:27.720 you know, a drummer, you know, all these different parts 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:30.440 that at a B three organ. So that was everything 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:33.080 I pretty much grew up with. And he was like 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:34.160 and still is to this. 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:39.200 Day, like my guy. You know wow, Okay, yeah, that's 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:39.600 what's up. 0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:43.240 What was the first album you ever purchased? 0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:45.560 And I knew you're gonna dig with that one. 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:48.920 That's a See, the album were in the house that 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:51.800 never bought because we didn't have money, so it was 0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:57.840 things usually like a Shirley Caesar album or something like that. 0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:02.800 But I never bought gospel albums my mother. That was 0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:05.880 like kind of her role. But if I think back 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:07.960 to it, it had to be something with motown or 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:11.040 James Brown, probably a James Brown record. 0:23:11.480 --> 0:23:14.920 Okay, okay, where are you living now? 0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:18.119 Just out of curiosity in North Jersey? 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:21.160 Okay, yeah, still home? 0:23:22.400 --> 0:23:24.879 Besides church, were there any other functions that you were 0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:26.080 singing at high schools? 0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:30.760 Or I would sing anywhere any style in the park 0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:36.320 at it for nothing. You know, you wouldn't get paid, 0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:39.959 but I I never I don't have to see. I 0:23:39.960 --> 0:23:43.720 didn't say to myself this is what I wanted to do. 0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:47.919 I was in the midst of it from the moment 0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:51.200 I heard music. If you if you understand what I mean, 0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:53.520 it's like I didn't have a time of Okay, this 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:55.919 is what I'm gonna do for life. It was just 0:23:55.960 --> 0:23:58.399 a part of me, you know. And it's like a 0:23:58.440 --> 0:24:00.639 lot of things are like that for me. You know, 0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:04.119 I don't have to really put on airs to be 0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:09.760 something or to accept someone doing something, and it's like 0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:14.040 when I see you and your band, it's like that's 0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:17.840 supposed to happen, and whatever you're doing, I'm just gonna 0:24:18.000 --> 0:24:22.600 immerse myself in it and not be so judgmental, even 0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:25.439 if I don't, you know, particularly like everything. It's just 0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:28.800 I think that the life of music is like my 0:24:28.920 --> 0:24:32.359 life blood. And that's why I don't have a specific moment. 0:24:32.840 --> 0:24:37.600 But when you say Jesus moment, it's like I remember, 0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:41.040 like my mother used to we got too old to 0:24:41.080 --> 0:24:45.120 get that whip, and you know, she would like make 0:24:45.200 --> 0:24:47.560 us sit on the steps or something like that. And 0:24:48.040 --> 0:24:49.920 one day, you know, I don't know what I did, 0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:52.800 but she had. She sat me on the back steps 0:24:53.280 --> 0:24:55.760 in our back porch, and I was just sitting there 0:24:56.560 --> 0:25:00.960 and I was always like a very like outside the 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:03.919 Bible thing, you know, like things didn't make sense to me. 0:25:04.720 --> 0:25:05.760 Is why does this happened? 0:25:05.760 --> 0:25:09.480 I'm like, you know, but I meant that metaphorically. 0:25:09.560 --> 0:25:11.360 I didn't mean, man, yeah, I know what you meant, 0:25:11.359 --> 0:25:14.159 but I'm trying to get to something. So one day 0:25:14.200 --> 0:25:18.760 I'm sitting there and I actually felt like I saw 0:25:18.800 --> 0:25:21.520 the tree growing. And this is when I was very, 0:25:21.600 --> 0:25:25.960 very young, so I've always had that feeling. So there 0:25:26.040 --> 0:25:29.199 wasn't a moment of that Jesus moment of music. I'm 0:25:29.200 --> 0:25:31.439 going to do this in my life. It was just 0:25:31.560 --> 0:25:34.719 a part of the maturation, was all of it. So 0:25:34.960 --> 0:25:38.520 when it did happen, got it. I was already in 0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:41.200 the midst of it, and it never overwhelmed me at 0:25:41.240 --> 0:25:41.720 that time. 0:25:42.680 --> 0:25:45.800 If you understand what I mean, yeah, yeah, I got it. 0:25:46.400 --> 0:25:51.720 So I'll ask you what was your knowledge of the 0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:54.320 moment they became cool in the Gang? I know they 0:25:54.359 --> 0:25:59.720 were various other groups, but were you wear them from 0:25:59.760 --> 0:26:02.760 there first self titled record? Those? 0:26:02.880 --> 0:26:03.600 Oh yeah first? 0:26:04.320 --> 0:26:06.200 So what was your opinion of like what did you 0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:09.320 think were they just like are they from Jersey or no? 0:26:09.600 --> 0:26:13.760 No, I thought they were awesome because we used to, 0:26:13.840 --> 0:26:16.760 you know, carry the boomboxes have Ben and a friend 0:26:16.760 --> 0:26:18.760 of mine, Curtis, he would always have his boombox and 0:26:18.840 --> 0:26:21.760 we would listen to Cooling the Gang stuff walking to school. 0:26:22.200 --> 0:26:24.119 And sometime I go to his house and I remember, 0:26:24.600 --> 0:26:26.920 I forget what Albert was. I think was the ice 0:26:27.040 --> 0:26:29.919 Block Cooler Gang. It was like a block the message 0:26:30.000 --> 0:26:32.720 yet the message yet Yeah, And so I got into 0:26:32.760 --> 0:26:35.119 what they were talking about because we were growing up 0:26:35.119 --> 0:26:38.960 in the civil rights so those things they were talking 0:26:39.000 --> 0:26:41.680 about in a musical way. So that's pretty clever how 0:26:41.720 --> 0:26:46.000 they got the message across. You know, we're not even 0:26:46.040 --> 0:26:48.960 as blatant as like a girl Scott did, you know. 0:26:49.400 --> 0:26:52.200 But it was something that I could relate to musically 0:26:52.680 --> 0:26:56.119 as well as instrumentally, and something you could dance to 0:26:56.160 --> 0:26:59.680 at the same time. So that was always a magnet. 0:26:59.720 --> 0:27:01.800 And if you look at all the groups back then, 0:27:02.040 --> 0:27:04.560 from James Brown, you know, I'm black and I'm proud 0:27:04.640 --> 0:27:08.640 anything that anybody was doing Marvin. It was the social 0:27:08.680 --> 0:27:13.640 consciousness while we were growing up that implemented music that 0:27:13.760 --> 0:27:18.040 showed instrumentation, and all these great guys playing this stuff. 0:27:18.359 --> 0:27:20.600 And then, like I said, with my uncle dropping jazz 0:27:20.720 --> 0:27:23.200 music off, I realized that they were telling the same 0:27:23.240 --> 0:27:26.679 story growing up. So it was reaching and pulling me 0:27:26.760 --> 0:27:29.320 in all of these different directions. But I thought that 0:27:29.440 --> 0:27:34.240 Coolning were great, and ironically when I mentioned the Flair 0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:37.880 of Soul, we actually opened up for them once at 0:27:37.920 --> 0:27:41.919 the Newark College I think it's Caine College and Newark 0:27:42.520 --> 0:27:46.040 and I tried to get backstage to meet them. This 0:27:46.160 --> 0:27:48.959 is years before I even I became a member, and 0:27:49.240 --> 0:27:51.760 some security guy wouldn't let me come back to meet them, 0:27:51.840 --> 0:27:54.439 but I wanted to talk to them about, you know, 0:27:54.520 --> 0:27:56.720 what they were doing because I liked it very much. 0:27:56.800 --> 0:27:59.639 You know, Oh, okay, that's such a cool story. 0:28:00.119 --> 0:28:04.080 Yeah, it's all one man, it all, it all. It's 0:28:04.119 --> 0:28:05.400 all related in some way. 0:28:05.480 --> 0:28:05.720 You know. 0:28:06.200 --> 0:28:08.560 That's really interesting that you were a fan and tried 0:28:08.600 --> 0:28:10.320 to meet that ends up in the band. 0:28:10.520 --> 0:28:12.879 Right, yeah, and ended up It's crazy. 0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:18.520 How did you specifically get their attention? What's the story 0:28:18.560 --> 0:28:22.159 process that leads to you guys meeting to audition for 0:28:22.200 --> 0:28:22.560 the band? 0:28:23.400 --> 0:28:25.280 There was a there was a part on the House 0:28:25.320 --> 0:28:30.679 of Music and Studios in the West Orange and I 0:28:30.720 --> 0:28:33.440 did a session with Jeff Dixon. 0:28:34.920 --> 0:28:36.600 Wait what Jeff Dixon? 0:28:36.800 --> 0:28:40.160 Yes, really, and I went I got a call that 0:28:40.280 --> 0:28:42.680 step and said, listen, man, this is this guy doing 0:28:42.680 --> 0:28:45.920 a he's doing trying to put this group together. And 0:28:45.960 --> 0:28:48.080 his name was Jeff Dixon. He wants you to come down. 0:28:48.240 --> 0:28:51.280 I told him about you and b to the session 0:28:51.800 --> 0:28:53.960 and I did a There was a section of the 0:28:54.000 --> 0:28:57.640 song that I did and when I finished my part, 0:28:57.680 --> 0:28:59.680 you know, I went out and when it was done, 0:29:00.240 --> 0:29:02.320 he said, come back in and he said, he said, 0:29:02.320 --> 0:29:05.640 listen to what happened to the song when your part comes, 0:29:05.800 --> 0:29:07.960 and he played it through and he. 0:29:07.920 --> 0:29:09.120 Said, you hear that? 0:29:09.120 --> 0:29:11.200 That's it right there. He said, I got to get 0:29:11.240 --> 0:29:13.920 you with somebody, you know. And I was like, I 0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:17.239 was just doing what he instructed me to do. So 0:29:18.040 --> 0:29:21.880 when I got the call to come to audition, I 0:29:21.960 --> 0:29:24.960 don't know if it was Stephan, whether it was Jeff 0:29:25.000 --> 0:29:27.920 Dition that that told cool himber about me, but I 0:29:28.000 --> 0:29:33.880 know when when I got there, Irene Conrad I mentioned, 0:29:33.920 --> 0:29:36.400 he said, yeah, well cooling him there down here, and 0:29:36.440 --> 0:29:38.720 I went in and I met Chalice and and the 0:29:38.760 --> 0:29:41.640 thing for me, I really wanted to beat DT and 0:29:41.760 --> 0:29:44.640 Spike for some reason, I don't know, because these team 0:29:44.840 --> 0:29:48.280 was always like the cooler dressed guy and he had 0:29:48.400 --> 0:29:51.600 he played a great horn and Spike played the trumpet, 0:29:51.640 --> 0:29:56.040 and I like making he had this this jazzy thing 0:29:56.080 --> 0:29:59.120 about him that was cool when he had a widow's 0:29:59.160 --> 0:30:02.600 peak kind of but he was just like a attractive 0:30:02.800 --> 0:30:06.200 kind of aura that they had, you know, So. 0:30:06.240 --> 0:30:09.200 You really knew these cats, Yeah, I know them from 0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:13.360 just the music. In my mind, I was like, especially now, 0:30:13.920 --> 0:30:17.320 I mean, you know, I'm gen X and there's some 0:30:18.080 --> 0:30:23.560 gen Z's and jen Alphas after Z's Alphas that pretty 0:30:23.640 --> 0:30:26.920 much like started with Millennials, but also with gen Z 0:30:27.000 --> 0:30:29.720 and with Jens Alpha where it's just like a kind 0:30:29.760 --> 0:30:36.560 of blatant uh purposeful indifference or it's weird, like I 0:30:36.640 --> 0:30:39.440 wouldn't think. I thought, oh, he's probably a new guy 0:30:39.440 --> 0:30:43.080 in a group and don't even know who Mickens is 0:30:43.240 --> 0:30:46.240 or who, like right, like, oh, some old guys want 0:30:46.280 --> 0:30:49.760 me to sing in their group and that No. 0:30:49.800 --> 0:30:52.240 I never thought that. And if you you know question 0:30:52.840 --> 0:30:55.560 back then, like the albums they had the liner notes, 0:30:55.600 --> 0:30:57.960 they told you who guys were, so you would say there. 0:30:58.080 --> 0:30:59.720 You didn't have a cell phone or anything, so you 0:30:59.760 --> 0:31:02.360 would go through the album and you're listening to it 0:31:02.600 --> 0:31:05.040 and you're finding out, oh this guy played that. Oh 0:31:05.080 --> 0:31:07.800 I didn't know. And I didn't even know Dtu played 0:31:07.920 --> 0:31:11.040 played the flute okay, And then I thought, oh I was. 0:31:11.080 --> 0:31:11.920 Him playing that? 0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:14.360 Oh okay. So when I met him, I was like, yo, man, 0:31:14.400 --> 0:31:15.680 at that part you played on this. 0:31:15.720 --> 0:31:16.880 You know, stuff like that. 0:31:17.040 --> 0:31:19.600 So I was telling them little things that I appreciated 0:31:19.640 --> 0:31:23.080 and and you know, funky George and listening to that 0:31:23.240 --> 0:31:27.320 foot man, I said, wow, that's you know. So it 0:31:27.440 --> 0:31:30.560 was I was like in heaven kind and so to speak, you. 0:31:30.480 --> 0:31:33.520 Know all that I said about your your velvet voice 0:31:33.560 --> 0:31:37.800 and and you being a modern nat king Cole. I 0:31:37.840 --> 0:31:41.600 asked him in my class, like what was that process 0:31:41.800 --> 0:31:45.000 like of finally striking gold? Because you know, he told 0:31:45.000 --> 0:31:48.720 a story about everybody's disco dancing album like flopped And 0:31:48.760 --> 0:31:52.640 they were in the store and doing an autograph session 0:31:52.680 --> 0:31:54.680 and nobody was there and one girl was. 0:31:54.640 --> 0:31:56.200 Like who they supposed to be? 0:31:56.520 --> 0:31:56.800 Cool? 0:31:56.920 --> 0:32:00.680 Gang ill Like he was like, man, we gotta get 0:32:00.680 --> 0:32:02.600 a singer, we gotta get a singer. It's like desperation, 0:32:03.240 --> 0:32:06.680 but he says that he knew within the first three 0:32:06.760 --> 0:32:10.320 seconds you were the singer because you sounded like Nacking 0:32:10.400 --> 0:32:13.800 Cole and I thought like that might have struck me 0:32:13.920 --> 0:32:16.479 odd because I would I would almost think like, Okay, 0:32:17.240 --> 0:32:20.840 during that time period seventy nine, you gotta compete with 0:32:21.520 --> 0:32:26.120 all these gruff, all these I mean, either they're kind 0:32:26.120 --> 0:32:29.760 of over the top. I'm not saying primitive exotic, but 0:32:30.520 --> 0:32:34.280 you know, unless you come super animated, ah you like 0:32:34.320 --> 0:32:39.440 sfoot is animated, boots in Parliament they're animated, or you're 0:32:39.480 --> 0:32:44.040 coming like you know, I mean the Mendingo, Yeah, like 0:32:44.400 --> 0:32:51.280 or spiritual. You came very classy, but you came classy 0:32:51.320 --> 0:32:54.640 in a way that wasn't like like I don't know 0:32:54.640 --> 0:32:58.520 if Johnny Mathis would be like just walking down the hood, 0:32:58.960 --> 0:32:59.160 you know. 0:32:59.160 --> 0:32:59.600 What I mean. 0:33:00.400 --> 0:33:04.520 But you almost had like a you had some street 0:33:04.520 --> 0:33:10.320 confidence about you. But you also came off like you 0:33:10.760 --> 0:33:15.520 might have done two years in ROTC T training or 0:33:15.560 --> 0:33:16.400 in college. 0:33:16.800 --> 0:33:17.440 I actually did. 0:33:18.520 --> 0:33:21.040 As much as I love the Jackson's and they were 0:33:21.040 --> 0:33:24.200 my heroes, I'd never looked at them once and thought 0:33:24.240 --> 0:33:27.960 like you might be some college educated brothers, you know, 0:33:28.360 --> 0:33:30.600 the Commodore's talk all the time about going into. 0:33:31.080 --> 0:33:36.520 Skiingsitute but you know, but but they still wow. 0:33:36.880 --> 0:33:41.000 So for me, you were like the first look into 0:33:41.960 --> 0:33:43.400 what we might perceive. 0:33:43.160 --> 0:33:46.480 Day at sold to be or like yeah yeah. So 0:33:47.200 --> 0:33:50.320 for you, though, what was the audition process? Like? 0:33:51.560 --> 0:33:55.239 I didn't go in there like super nervous. And I 0:33:55.280 --> 0:33:58.840 think again, as I said to you, the process was 0:33:58.880 --> 0:34:02.640 the whole the whole thing included, meaning the music process 0:34:02.640 --> 0:34:05.560 from being young all the way through. So this feeling 0:34:05.600 --> 0:34:08.960 that I've had, the spiritual feeling I've had, was like, Okay, 0:34:08.960 --> 0:34:10.880 I'm here, So this is what we're going to do. 0:34:11.120 --> 0:34:15.719 And he said, let me hear you sing something. I said, well, 0:34:15.719 --> 0:34:17.960 what do you want me to sing? He said anything, 0:34:18.040 --> 0:34:21.440 just make something up and he started playing these changes 0:34:22.400 --> 0:34:26.879 and I sang, you know in my baritone voice, you know. 0:34:27.360 --> 0:34:28.799 And he said, can you sing Hi? 0:34:29.680 --> 0:34:32.680 And I said yeah, And I did some falsettle stuff, 0:34:32.760 --> 0:34:37.280 you know, And that's pretty much all I remember doing 0:34:37.960 --> 0:34:38.359 for him. 0:34:38.560 --> 0:34:40.840 Did you know what you were walking into? 0:34:42.160 --> 0:34:42.239 No? 0:34:43.360 --> 0:34:46.359 So no one officially said cool in the gangs looking for. 0:34:46.320 --> 0:34:49.200 A lead singer said that the only thing I knew 0:34:49.280 --> 0:34:51.920 was that they were looking for some background for me. 0:34:51.960 --> 0:34:55.680 To sing background on a record, okay, and again you 0:34:55.719 --> 0:35:00.759 know that's what I do, so okay, the songs that 0:35:00.800 --> 0:35:02.919 you know, and my thing, I'm like that, what's the song? 0:35:02.960 --> 0:35:03.560 What are we going to do? 0:35:03.719 --> 0:35:06.080 And thinking it's going to be more in the vain 0:35:06.160 --> 0:35:08.920 of what they did before, you know, background, you know 0:35:09.000 --> 0:35:11.600 Hollywood's well, you know, jungle boogie, all that. 0:35:11.480 --> 0:35:15.000 Stuff, you know. And when I met with I. 0:35:14.880 --> 0:35:18.560 Think it was Gabe Figarto the Light Records, he said, 0:35:18.560 --> 0:35:23.200 you know, Jay, that era has passed. And when I 0:35:23.239 --> 0:35:25.840 met Diodado, I was I don't think I was in 0:35:25.880 --> 0:35:29.839 the meeting, but he asked Gabe, he said, he said, well, 0:35:30.440 --> 0:35:35.680 who's who's gonna sing this? And he said him this JT. 0:35:35.880 --> 0:35:37.760 And he said, I want you to put the music 0:35:37.840 --> 0:35:45.800 around him his voice, and I'm said okay, okay, And 0:35:45.239 --> 0:35:48.120 you know, so I'm green at this time. You got 0:35:48.120 --> 0:35:51.520 to understand, as far as studio work, I've never worked 0:35:51.520 --> 0:35:55.480 in the studio in any capacity, Like what's going to come? 0:35:56.160 --> 0:35:59.520 Was Diodado part of your audition? Like was he one 0:35:59.560 --> 0:35:59.960 of the people? 0:36:00.080 --> 0:36:03.359 It was, No, No, he wasn't in there at all. 0:36:03.560 --> 0:36:04.920 I met him a little later. 0:36:05.280 --> 0:36:08.200 But he was already involved with them at that point. 0:36:08.239 --> 0:36:12.200 At that point, I was so everything was great, you know. 0:36:12.280 --> 0:36:14.359 I was like I knew I was school a gang. 0:36:14.680 --> 0:36:19.640 I'm in the studio, a house of music. They liked me, 0:36:20.360 --> 0:36:24.400 and when we started working, we instantly I wouldn't say instantly, 0:36:24.480 --> 0:36:28.759 but we started working on music and we would go 0:36:28.800 --> 0:36:32.440 to I think on thirtieth West thirties Street at Daily. 0:36:32.239 --> 0:36:35.080 Planet, just playing songs there. You know. 0:36:36.520 --> 0:36:40.319 So when did Donald got involved. This whole thing was 0:36:40.360 --> 0:36:44.840 trying to mesh what they brought in, what everybody was writing. 0:36:44.880 --> 0:36:47.120 And at the time, I wasn't bringing anything in as 0:36:47.160 --> 0:36:50.640 far as like songwriting anything like that. I was more 0:36:50.760 --> 0:36:54.480 like just feeding off of what's coming at me. Let me, 0:36:54.560 --> 0:36:56.759 let me be here, let me listen to this guy, 0:36:56.880 --> 0:37:00.359 let me be over here. And it was all interesting. 0:37:00.719 --> 0:37:03.040 Nothing was boring. But the thing that was that was 0:37:03.040 --> 0:37:06.239 funny though, was that they had three girls, three women 0:37:06.280 --> 0:37:11.439 I would say, singing background, and a couple of other yeah, 0:37:11.440 --> 0:37:14.680 something sweet, and there was a couple other guys in there, 0:37:14.880 --> 0:37:17.440 and I remember them looking at me sideways, you know, 0:37:18.360 --> 0:37:20.480 and I'm up here saying, Okay, I have to get 0:37:20.520 --> 0:37:23.000 my street vibe on, you know, because what's going on, 0:37:23.120 --> 0:37:25.680 like what are these people looking at me like this? For? 0:37:26.560 --> 0:37:28.640 So I'm thinking, do I have to make a phone. 0:37:28.320 --> 0:37:30.480 Call, you know, get some of my guys that come 0:37:30.560 --> 0:37:34.160 because this is all me thinking this is not them, 0:37:34.440 --> 0:37:37.520 and because I'm saying, why these dagger's being thrown at 0:37:37.560 --> 0:37:40.160 me when I'm here to help. You know, I didn't 0:37:40.360 --> 0:37:43.520 ask to be here. I was encouraged and asked invited 0:37:43.560 --> 0:37:45.840 to be here, and I thought that they were good, 0:37:46.120 --> 0:37:48.360 and I said, well, we just keep them to myself. 0:37:48.440 --> 0:37:52.239 This is all internal, you know, while music is going 0:37:52.280 --> 0:37:55.440 on and people are walking around and I don't know 0:37:55.560 --> 0:37:58.040 any of these people. I don't even know cooling them really, 0:37:58.480 --> 0:38:01.000 so I'm trying to vibe I've been to make sure 0:38:01.000 --> 0:38:03.520 I'm safe at the same time, and you know, I 0:38:03.600 --> 0:38:05.839 wasn't a person who hung out in the city, so 0:38:05.880 --> 0:38:08.040 that whole thing, you know, was new too. 0:38:08.239 --> 0:38:09.920 So you know, there's a lot coming at me. 0:38:15.320 --> 0:38:20.680 What were you doing to survive before you joined the 0:38:20.719 --> 0:38:27.040 band and how long was it until you felt secure 0:38:27.160 --> 0:38:32.200 enough that you were making your living as a member 0:38:32.200 --> 0:38:32.920 of Cooling the Game. 0:38:33.440 --> 0:38:37.680 Well, I went to HBCU as well in Norfolk State, Virginia. 0:38:37.840 --> 0:38:40.759 I did two years there and it just wasn't my 0:38:40.880 --> 0:38:43.399 time to be in college. You know, I was all 0:38:43.440 --> 0:38:47.200 about music and I didn't study music there, and I 0:38:47.320 --> 0:38:50.640 just had a difficult time. So I dropped out because 0:38:50.719 --> 0:38:53.880 music was my passion, you know. But when I came home, 0:38:54.080 --> 0:38:56.120 you know, I was pretty much bumming around. I was 0:38:56.160 --> 0:39:00.879 playing a lot of different bands and working on jobs. 0:39:01.719 --> 0:39:05.239 Got me an apartment and had a raggedy car, that 0:39:05.280 --> 0:39:08.840 type of thing, and you know, all of this happened, 0:39:08.840 --> 0:39:11.080 and then I get the phone call from Cooling them. 0:39:11.360 --> 0:39:14.080 But I think at seventy nine when we did the 0:39:14.160 --> 0:39:18.880 Ladies and Night album and we started going to Paradise 0:39:18.920 --> 0:39:22.520 Garage and all your different places for promotions and clubs. 0:39:23.239 --> 0:39:25.280 Paradise Garage, yes, yes. 0:39:25.120 --> 0:39:27.840 We did it. What was that? I knew that was 0:39:27.840 --> 0:39:31.520 gonna raise the eyebrows, but we we actually had the 0:39:31.800 --> 0:39:34.600 record company did a promotion there because you know, it 0:39:34.680 --> 0:39:37.640 was the greatest sound system in the in the city, 0:39:38.360 --> 0:39:41.880 right you know, with the with those the speakers, the 0:39:41.920 --> 0:39:44.560 speakers right cranked up. You wouldn't even be able to 0:39:44.600 --> 0:39:46.719 hear when you left there. But we did a thing 0:39:46.840 --> 0:39:50.480 when they dropped Ladies' Night at Paradise Garage, you know, 0:39:50.520 --> 0:39:53.239 which was appropriate and I remember we went up and 0:39:53.280 --> 0:39:56.359 the DJ called us a cooling the Gang record, you know, 0:39:56.920 --> 0:39:59.480 and he said, cool is here, JT's here. 0:40:01.320 --> 0:40:03.880 Yeah, you know that, you know, and they dropped it. 0:40:04.000 --> 0:40:08.040 Dude. I aspired to be his level of DJing. 0:40:07.560 --> 0:40:10.360 Like that he would hear awesome, man, and he dropped 0:40:10.400 --> 0:40:15.480 it and they hit the floor and everybody just looked 0:40:15.520 --> 0:40:18.160 at each other was just like okay. And the record 0:40:18.160 --> 0:40:21.719 company I think that they knew that that they had 0:40:21.760 --> 0:40:26.920 it right there, because again, nobody expected it to sound 0:40:27.000 --> 0:40:29.279 like that. You know, they looked they were looking for 0:40:29.280 --> 0:40:31.640 all these horns and everything, and they were like, well, 0:40:31.680 --> 0:40:33.280 who's who's the who's the voice? 0:40:34.040 --> 0:40:35.600 Where that voice comes from? 0:40:36.040 --> 0:40:39.120 And you know, some people were like, nah, man, that 0:40:39.120 --> 0:40:42.080 can't be cool. And then you know, and some time 0:40:42.120 --> 0:40:43.920 I got I got a little flat back to that, 0:40:43.920 --> 0:40:46.120 because well, I want I want to hear the old stuff, 0:40:46.160 --> 0:40:49.000 the winds down and they were telling me, say listen, man, 0:40:49.680 --> 0:40:55.000 we weren't eating on that stuff anymore, right, So yeah, 0:40:55.000 --> 0:40:59.000 it was it was awesome. Did I answer the question? Yeah? Yeah, 0:40:59.120 --> 0:41:01.400 because that that ladies out. That's when I realized I 0:41:01.440 --> 0:41:05.239 could I start making a living, and you know, bout 0:41:05.280 --> 0:41:06.000 some new clothes. 0:41:07.080 --> 0:41:09.319 I figured as well, this is probably one of the 0:41:09.440 --> 0:41:12.480 rarest chances I get to ask this question, so I'm 0:41:12.480 --> 0:41:17.120 gonna try to ask very careful. Okay, Okay, So what 0:41:17.320 --> 0:41:21.479 could a working class musician make in nineteen seventy nine? 0:41:22.080 --> 0:41:28.239 I mean, I'm basically asking what is a living in 0:41:28.320 --> 0:41:31.239 seventy nine? And I'm only asking this because, okay, like 0:41:31.320 --> 0:41:36.720 hip hop has distorted the expectations of what one should 0:41:36.800 --> 0:41:39.640 expect from this industry because you know, it such a 0:41:39.719 --> 0:41:44.120 hustler culture and you see everyone just like their money away. 0:41:44.800 --> 0:41:49.239 And the thing is is that my manager kind of 0:41:49.239 --> 0:41:53.759 told us from the gate, Look, I'm not doing this. 0:41:53.840 --> 0:41:56.560 You guys aren't going to ball out of control, like 0:41:57.360 --> 0:42:02.080 you're going to be able to slide mom some very 0:42:02.120 --> 0:42:06.640 significant petty cash monthly. You'll be able to have a 0:42:06.680 --> 0:42:11.080 half decent crib. And if I do my job right, 0:42:12.000 --> 0:42:14.319 you know, you guys will at least be able to 0:42:14.480 --> 0:42:19.160 make at least what a surgeon would make. At the time, 0:42:19.960 --> 0:42:22.080 I did agree with that, and I subscribe to it. 0:42:22.200 --> 0:42:24.640 Now I'm in a mind state where I want to 0:42:24.640 --> 0:42:27.719 be a daredevil and dream my highest dream like, but 0:42:28.719 --> 0:42:32.080 back then I was I was really small minded, with it. 0:42:32.120 --> 0:42:36.560 But that said, you know, I think that's what at 0:42:36.640 --> 0:42:40.560 least for the twenty years of doing the Roots, you 0:42:40.600 --> 0:42:44.840 know before the Tonight show, that that enabled me to 0:42:46.360 --> 0:42:50.920 not have distorted expectations and stay focused. You know, like 0:42:51.360 --> 0:42:54.080 a lot of people after the third or fourth time, 0:42:54.160 --> 0:42:56.719 like it took us four albums to really get to 0:42:56.800 --> 0:42:59.759 a satisfactory place, but I think a lot of people 0:42:59.760 --> 0:43:02.680 would start to give up or start sabotaging their cells 0:43:02.760 --> 0:43:06.600 for And I'm asking this because there really wasn't the 0:43:06.640 --> 0:43:13.399 standard of hip hop baller lifestyles expected for not at 0:43:13.400 --> 0:43:19.120 all black singers. So what could you expect to make 0:43:19.160 --> 0:43:22.400 a living on as e leite singer of been established 0:43:23.440 --> 0:43:25.960 ben with albeit with a new lease on life that 0:43:26.000 --> 0:43:28.560 they didn't have before like NB eighties. 0:43:29.800 --> 0:43:32.920 Our situation, we didn't have that type of manager that 0:43:32.960 --> 0:43:36.319 you had. We were not given any direction as far 0:43:36.360 --> 0:43:41.080 as what you're going to make per se. My expectations 0:43:41.120 --> 0:43:45.640 were simple, Matt. You know, how many records did we sell? 0:43:46.880 --> 0:43:47.320 Okay? 0:43:47.800 --> 0:43:52.440 We got six of us record label gets this Okay, 0:43:53.320 --> 0:44:01.360 so where's that was left over? And that wasn't happening now. 0:44:02.440 --> 0:44:06.560 I couldn't rock the boat at that point because I 0:44:06.560 --> 0:44:10.279 didn't really have the cachet, the input, the. 0:44:12.760 --> 0:44:14.479 In seniority to do. 0:44:14.440 --> 0:44:19.279 That, so they were rationing out weekly income. 0:44:19.680 --> 0:44:21.680 So you were getting paid like a rookie. 0:44:21.680 --> 0:44:25.160 Like a rookie, right, but enough to live better than 0:44:25.160 --> 0:44:28.480 I was living just about. 0:44:28.239 --> 0:44:29.319 A little bit more above that. 0:44:30.160 --> 0:44:34.120 And we were we were actually working so much that 0:44:34.560 --> 0:44:37.480 it should have been maybe five to ten times more 0:44:37.520 --> 0:44:40.680 than that, you know, because we were killing it. We were, 0:44:40.680 --> 0:44:44.439 and we were like working every day like like seem 0:44:44.520 --> 0:44:48.120 like we never never stopped. So the money really wasn't 0:44:48.120 --> 0:44:50.520 adding up with the hits and how much we were touring. 0:44:51.080 --> 0:44:54.879 And my family started asking that question. I, okay, well 0:44:55.400 --> 0:44:56.200 get your apartment. 0:44:56.280 --> 0:44:57.640 You got a decent car now. 0:44:58.200 --> 0:45:03.120 And I when I wanted to slide my mother that 0:45:03.400 --> 0:45:06.400 money you were talking about, I didn't have as much 0:45:06.520 --> 0:45:09.759 as I thought to do that because at the time, 0:45:09.840 --> 0:45:11.920 you don't really need a whole lot, you know, you 0:45:12.120 --> 0:45:16.799 just kind of still in the midst of the musical part, 0:45:17.280 --> 0:45:20.040 you know, and you just expect the money to be there. 0:45:20.080 --> 0:45:23.120 You got around people around you. I'm with cooling them. 0:45:23.160 --> 0:45:25.879 They've been around here since the sixties. You know, all 0:45:25.960 --> 0:45:29.240 this is going to come around. And it was fine. 0:45:29.400 --> 0:45:33.480 You know, when I started asking questions, that's when I 0:45:33.520 --> 0:45:38.200 started finding out, you know, all of the the side deals, 0:45:38.280 --> 0:45:42.319 all the things that were not there, and you know, 0:45:42.400 --> 0:45:45.640 you just kind of find your way through speak when 0:45:45.640 --> 0:45:48.600 you can't speak. And some of the people that we 0:45:48.600 --> 0:45:51.200 were working with, you know, I was told, you know, well, 0:45:51.200 --> 0:45:53.560 you can't talk to these people like that. I said, well, 0:45:55.000 --> 0:45:58.360 if I'm being a man, no one's going to stop. 0:45:58.120 --> 0:45:59.840 Me from talking and speaking up for my. 0:46:01.320 --> 0:46:03.839 I'm not trying to be a bad guy, a sweet guy, nothing. 0:46:03.880 --> 0:46:07.040 I'm just gonna say that this shit ain't right, you know, 0:46:07.239 --> 0:46:09.759 and this should be a little bit more balanced right here, 0:46:10.480 --> 0:46:10.680 you know. 0:46:10.840 --> 0:46:12.240 So that was always my position. 0:46:13.000 --> 0:46:17.520 Were the people that were running Delight Records the same 0:46:17.640 --> 0:46:22.600 people by the time you got in the seventy nine position, 0:46:23.000 --> 0:46:27.880 you're tenure in nineteen seventy nine. Because Ronald told me 0:46:28.000 --> 0:46:31.719 that he was very careful with his words, but he's 0:46:31.760 --> 0:46:36.320 basically insinuating to me that the whole Jungle Boogee story 0:46:37.040 --> 0:46:41.160 was kind of at the insistence of some some friends 0:46:41.200 --> 0:46:42.000 of ours. 0:46:42.560 --> 0:46:44.399 I would say that, yes, I heard that. 0:46:44.560 --> 0:46:47.240 Ah that kind of hitman level. 0:46:47.280 --> 0:46:49.320 Okay, well, the same same people. 0:46:50.200 --> 0:46:53.239 Wow, I see, do you understand I'm saying. 0:46:56.360 --> 0:46:59.160 I totally understand what you're saying. 0:47:00.120 --> 0:47:02.200 So glad for once, it's not my people who are 0:47:03.160 --> 0:47:03.799 screwing up. 0:47:04.280 --> 0:47:07.000 It was you. It was you. 0:47:07.040 --> 0:47:09.120 Have you read Mars Leavey's Hitmann? 0:47:09.239 --> 0:47:10.200 No not yet? 0:47:10.360 --> 0:47:11.400 No, No, I haven't. 0:47:11.960 --> 0:47:15.000 Now that's that's the book that exposes the you know, 0:47:16.160 --> 0:47:20.000 that's what built Jerry's, the whole game, Jersey, Sylvie Robbinson, 0:47:20.080 --> 0:47:20.640 all the people. 0:47:21.040 --> 0:47:23.080 So I'm sorry, let me let me interject here. So 0:47:23.160 --> 0:47:25.480 what about the publishing side of things though? Was that 0:47:25.640 --> 0:47:29.560 also sort of shady because you were you were reading 0:47:29.680 --> 0:47:30.880 some of these big hits. 0:47:31.200 --> 0:47:33.520 Yeah, because when I came into the group, and I 0:47:33.560 --> 0:47:37.040 again when I started keeeping some of the stuff, it 0:47:37.160 --> 0:47:40.160 was more like they had told me they had a 0:47:40.200 --> 0:47:44.400 deal that was already set when I came in. So 0:47:44.480 --> 0:47:49.279 I kind of had to buy into what was already established, 0:47:50.080 --> 0:47:53.520 right I was, I wasn't a separate entity. I was 0:47:53.640 --> 0:47:57.239 now a part of the of the entity. And with 0:47:57.400 --> 0:48:00.440 that that means that I was I had to dop. 0:48:01.800 --> 0:48:02.680 Some of the things that. 0:48:02.640 --> 0:48:06.239 They had already had in order, and that really wasn't 0:48:06.239 --> 0:48:07.480 anything I could do about it. 0:48:07.840 --> 0:48:12.000 I do have a question about the repertoire when you 0:48:12.040 --> 0:48:14.319 first get in the group. You know, as I said 0:48:14.320 --> 0:48:16.960 at the top of the show, there's like almost five 0:48:17.000 --> 0:48:20.120 to six levels of the band's history that one could 0:48:20.160 --> 0:48:23.880 gravitate towards. If you're into a lot of early rap samples, 0:48:24.560 --> 0:48:26.640 then you know the first three years, or you bag 0:48:27.320 --> 0:48:31.239 for kind of like the first real true steps into 0:48:31.440 --> 0:48:36.480 funk territory, not soul funk. There's there's an era of 0:48:36.560 --> 0:48:39.960 like you know, seventy four is seventy nine, and then 0:48:40.040 --> 0:48:43.439 there's the disco period seventy seven to whatever, and then 0:48:43.560 --> 0:48:47.279 here comes the hits seventy nine and so on. When 0:48:47.360 --> 0:48:51.280 you guys are putting your shows together, is there any 0:48:51.520 --> 0:48:56.840 attention being paid to for the kind of pre wild 0:48:56.920 --> 0:49:02.200 and peaceful catalog songs or songs like in t or 0:49:02.800 --> 0:49:09.040 Ron Hamburger or like a lot of these or are 0:49:09.120 --> 0:49:12.000 they still a part of the show, like the instrumental 0:49:12.040 --> 0:49:12.920 part of the group. 0:49:14.120 --> 0:49:16.279 Not really that that was once you came in. 0:49:16.360 --> 0:49:17.320 Then it was just. 0:49:17.320 --> 0:49:21.879 Yeah, well sing not totally, but but you know, Ron, 0:49:22.000 --> 0:49:23.520 everybody was like, listen, man, they want to hear the 0:49:23.560 --> 0:49:25.640 new songs. And I said, yeah, but we got the 0:49:25.760 --> 0:49:28.480 we have the best of both worlds here guys, and 0:49:29.000 --> 0:49:31.680 I used to preach. I said, man, we have to 0:49:31.680 --> 0:49:34.279 play open Sesame tonight, and it depends on where we 0:49:34.280 --> 0:49:34.640 were playing. 0:49:34.640 --> 0:49:35.759 Wait a minute, they wouldn't do that. 0:49:36.080 --> 0:49:38.680 No, we did it once that a hit. 0:49:38.600 --> 0:49:40.880 I'm talking about, like obscure and stuff. 0:49:41.560 --> 0:49:44.040 Yeah, once in a while. And I said that we 0:49:44.080 --> 0:49:47.720 would because you know, we always had great segues into songs. 0:49:47.760 --> 0:49:49.560 You know, I picked up a lot of that from 0:49:49.600 --> 0:49:53.160 from working with with police, and I said, we could 0:49:53.200 --> 0:49:55.920 just sneak that in right here. We could sneak in 0:49:56.000 --> 0:50:02.000 tea right here, or you know, Gookoo Boxer something like that. Okay, anyway, 0:50:03.520 --> 0:50:07.520 nasty nasty, little funky track man. And then of course 0:50:07.560 --> 0:50:11.120 open Cessity and some of Madness I'm sorry, yeah, some 0:50:11.160 --> 0:50:13.360 of madness. They didn't have a problem with that. And 0:50:13.480 --> 0:50:14.360 Hollywood swinging. 0:50:14.640 --> 0:50:15.439 We would play that. 0:50:15.680 --> 0:50:19.239 But as far as involving all the other stuff that 0:50:19.280 --> 0:50:22.960 I was grew up on walking to school with, over time, 0:50:23.000 --> 0:50:26.520 it just was moved out and each album that we did, 0:50:26.520 --> 0:50:29.279 because we had like a almost a decade run of 0:50:29.400 --> 0:50:33.879 just top ten or top five hits that those are 0:50:33.880 --> 0:50:36.000 the songs that they said people wanted to play and 0:50:36.040 --> 0:50:40.960 the audience became more global, and the global audience didn't 0:50:41.000 --> 0:50:42.719 know all of those songs that we that you and 0:50:42.800 --> 0:50:45.600 I like, you know, they nts and all that they knew, 0:50:46.000 --> 0:50:51.840 celebration and all this. And I remember when we did Joanna. 0:50:52.840 --> 0:50:56.360 You know this, this is one of the most hurtful 0:50:56.400 --> 0:51:00.400 things that ever happened to me. And this no no 0:51:00.640 --> 0:51:03.279 I was good, but. 0:51:04.680 --> 0:51:07.480 The way they're done, yea. 0:51:08.040 --> 0:51:12.640 And we were doing Joanna and we had this black 0:51:12.680 --> 0:51:17.200 station and you know, we rolling everything and the an 0:51:17.320 --> 0:51:20.000 R guy was trying to get the record played. I 0:51:20.000 --> 0:51:22.960 don't think it was down with butter down there in Philly, 0:51:23.480 --> 0:51:26.359 but uh, it was something like a big station like that. 0:51:26.800 --> 0:51:30.640 But anyway, they said that it wasn't black enough. Question. 0:51:30.680 --> 0:51:31.160 I'm telling you. 0:51:31.200 --> 0:51:32.520 I remember going back. 0:51:32.360 --> 0:51:37.640 To my room and walking just pacing in my room 0:51:37.800 --> 0:51:40.040 back and forth. I don't know how long I did it, 0:51:40.719 --> 0:51:43.960 and almost like water coming on my eyes right and 0:51:44.480 --> 0:51:47.200 I'm saying, I'm thinking about Frankie Lineman and all these 0:51:47.239 --> 0:51:50.200 guys that paved the way to do all these things, 0:51:50.200 --> 0:51:54.120 from from you know, jazz to Leontine Price and all 0:51:54.160 --> 0:51:58.279 the I'm thinking about all of them that were you know, 0:51:58.400 --> 0:52:01.279 couldn't even dressing dressing room had to come in the 0:52:01.320 --> 0:52:03.840 back door. That all this is in my head. We 0:52:03.840 --> 0:52:06.279 were going through civil rights and you know, we're trying 0:52:06.320 --> 0:52:09.000 to find our way through and I'm doing this song, 0:52:09.080 --> 0:52:12.200 this melodic song that is a part of me. And 0:52:12.280 --> 0:52:14.320 if it's part of me and me and the group, 0:52:14.680 --> 0:52:17.200 then it's a part of black America, you know. So 0:52:17.239 --> 0:52:21.120 how could somebody black tell me that it's not black enough? 0:52:21.320 --> 0:52:24.160 I said, what is black enough mean? So that was 0:52:24.200 --> 0:52:27.799 the first time I was hit with that, and I 0:52:27.840 --> 0:52:31.560 remember calling my mother and I said, Mom, I said, 0:52:31.960 --> 0:52:35.120 I said, they said it wasn't my singing, ain't black enough, 0:52:35.160 --> 0:52:38.160 you know? And she said something she told me. She 0:52:38.280 --> 0:52:39.080 eased my mind. 0:52:39.160 --> 0:52:43.280 She said, that's a good thing. That means that you're different. 0:52:44.760 --> 0:52:47.120 They try to tell you that you're supposed to sound 0:52:47.360 --> 0:52:49.920 like something they want you to sound like, but you 0:52:49.960 --> 0:52:50.960 don't sound like that. 0:52:51.760 --> 0:52:55.440 So that makes you unique. How you feeling? 0:52:57.239 --> 0:53:00.920 And it sobered me up because it reminds me that 0:53:01.560 --> 0:53:07.880 you've grown into this rainbow of styles from from the 0:53:08.080 --> 0:53:12.480 little Transistor radio to the Philea Soul and then hearing 0:53:12.560 --> 0:53:16.120 all my heroes like the Motown and then the Philly 0:53:16.160 --> 0:53:19.960 International Sounds and all this and Stacks Records and all 0:53:19.960 --> 0:53:25.359 these different great people and you're amongst those people now, 0:53:25.760 --> 0:53:29.040 So you don't have to try to be anybody but 0:53:29.160 --> 0:53:31.759 who you are, and that is a black man who 0:53:31.760 --> 0:53:37.040 can do rock, funk, jazz, love, the love the classics, 0:53:37.400 --> 0:53:41.799 Leontine Price, love Stravinski. You know what I mean, you can. 0:53:41.920 --> 0:53:44.760 It doesn't matter. It's not a colored thing with music. 0:53:45.200 --> 0:53:49.160 So she cooled my little ass down real quick, said, 0:53:49.320 --> 0:53:53.520 you know know who you are, your tailor, and people 0:53:53.600 --> 0:53:57.560 have already given you the christen you. You know that 0:53:57.960 --> 0:54:01.000 they accept what you are. So don't you start thinking 0:54:01.040 --> 0:54:03.719 that you have to be somebody else just because the 0:54:03.800 --> 0:54:07.600 radio station said this song ain't black enough. Maybe not 0:54:07.640 --> 0:54:11.760 for what they want to play, but globally the world 0:54:11.800 --> 0:54:13.680 has already said we love this. 0:54:14.320 --> 0:54:16.440 You also got the last laugh, bro. 0:54:16.800 --> 0:54:19.239 I mean, yeah, yeah, it was. It was, but it 0:54:19.280 --> 0:54:22.160 was a it was a traumatic time, bro, you know 0:54:22.160 --> 0:54:22.560 what I mean. 0:54:27.239 --> 0:54:29.160 This is the dumbest question I remember want to ask 0:54:29.200 --> 0:54:32.759 in my professional career, but this is the only chance 0:54:32.800 --> 0:54:36.880 I get to ask it. When you shot that Schlitchmont 0:54:36.920 --> 0:54:44.879 liquor bull commercial, come on, come on, there was never 0:54:44.920 --> 0:54:50.040 a real bull on the premises right hell no, okay. 0:54:49.560 --> 0:54:54.120 I would have been gone before he broke through that. 0:54:54.120 --> 0:54:58.560 That that was a pretty good pre uh editing right pre. 0:54:58.520 --> 0:55:02.680 Ai to this day when I go down a rabbit 0:55:02.719 --> 0:55:08.040 hole on YouTube, I literally watched all forty five minutes 0:55:08.120 --> 0:55:14.320 of every Slitchmon't Liquor bull commercial of every great running 0:55:14.360 --> 0:55:15.640 and I always wanted to. 0:55:15.560 --> 0:55:18.040 Know they used to edited it. I mean, I hope 0:55:18.040 --> 0:55:20.840 I'll didn't ruin it for everybody, but yeah, we suggest 0:55:20.880 --> 0:55:23.320 you know, just looking running. 0:55:23.600 --> 0:55:25.759 Yeah, I got but that was that was that was a. 0:55:25.760 --> 0:55:27.120 Hot commercial for a long time. 0:55:27.120 --> 0:55:30.399 It was it was man like it was a big 0:55:30.400 --> 0:55:34.280 deal because you never saw like your favorites on that level. 0:55:34.320 --> 0:55:38.080 My dad especially liked it because sometimes they would juxtapose, 0:55:38.239 --> 0:55:40.840 like you know, I think you guys did a version 0:55:41.080 --> 0:55:42.640 and there was the platters. 0:55:42.200 --> 0:55:45.080 As well that we did with the four Tops or 0:55:45.120 --> 0:55:45.560 the four. 0:55:45.480 --> 0:55:48.160 Tops yeah, like yeah, yeah, my dad, my dad comes 0:55:48.200 --> 0:55:49.960 from you know, the fifties eras. 0:55:50.680 --> 0:55:53.600 For him, it was like important to see the groups 0:55:53.600 --> 0:55:54.880 he like represented. 0:55:55.000 --> 0:55:55.560 Absolutely. 0:55:55.719 --> 0:55:55.959 Yeah. 0:55:56.120 --> 0:55:57.560 So when I first. 0:55:57.440 --> 0:56:01.160 Got my record deal, like I would say that my 0:56:01.280 --> 0:56:06.320 first splurge, Like, okay, I made it. It's not much. 0:56:06.760 --> 0:56:09.719 There was too much of a build up. But you know, 0:56:10.080 --> 0:56:13.839 for me, sneakers and my record. 0:56:13.520 --> 0:56:15.680 Collection, that was it. 0:56:16.520 --> 0:56:18.560 Yeah, it was all I wanted to do in life. 0:56:18.920 --> 0:56:24.600 For you, what was your first like extravagant? I want 0:56:24.640 --> 0:56:26.120 cheese on my whopper like. 0:56:26.960 --> 0:56:28.880 That type of thing. Let me see, I think I 0:56:28.920 --> 0:56:34.439 got my first Mercedes, okay, because before, as I said, 0:56:34.440 --> 0:56:37.719 I had my own apartment, you know, barely paying the bill, 0:56:37.840 --> 0:56:40.920 you know, at a raggedy car, so you know, the 0:56:41.040 --> 0:56:44.400 being showed a little little prestige. Man, you know, let 0:56:44.440 --> 0:56:46.440 me get a decent car because the good car that 0:56:46.480 --> 0:56:48.480 I had, I'm gonna tell you this, the car I 0:56:48.520 --> 0:56:54.520 had it had been hit from the side, oh, on 0:56:54.560 --> 0:56:57.080 the passenger side, right, So whenever I went to pick 0:56:57.120 --> 0:57:01.680 somebody up, I would drive and pomp on the driver's side. 0:57:06.440 --> 0:57:07.520 Yeah, I'm gonna tell you something. 0:57:08.400 --> 0:57:09.360 We had some pride. 0:57:09.400 --> 0:57:09.600 You know. 0:57:11.880 --> 0:57:14.359 We had a group a group purchase. We got a 0:57:14.440 --> 0:57:18.520 land Cruiser that we all shared whoever needed a land Cruiser. 0:57:18.560 --> 0:57:22.600 I wasn't driving then, but Tarik would often dent that 0:57:22.800 --> 0:57:26.160 land Cruiser and get to the point where he would 0:57:26.160 --> 0:57:30.640 pick you know, his lady friends up only on the 0:57:30.760 --> 0:57:33.240 right side of the street so that she could never see. 0:57:33.680 --> 0:57:39.120 Right, exactly, That's exactly what I did. 0:57:40.120 --> 0:57:41.200 I see, I see. 0:57:41.920 --> 0:57:46.200 When you guys are on tour. Do you have to 0:57:46.280 --> 0:57:48.920 do Don Boyce's at libs on Jungle Boogie? 0:57:49.680 --> 0:57:51.600 I did? Yeah, I tried. 0:57:52.080 --> 0:57:55.080 What was your first show like with the group? Your 0:57:55.160 --> 0:57:56.880 your very first school in the Gang show? 0:57:57.480 --> 0:58:01.840 This is I think this was before we actually started 0:58:01.840 --> 0:58:04.680 working On Ladies' Night, I did a show with them. 0:58:05.520 --> 0:58:07.160 Oh you were singing with them even before? 0:58:07.800 --> 0:58:10.480 Yeah, right before we started. Yeah, I all needed one 0:58:10.560 --> 0:58:14.760 show and then right after my audition, and I think 0:58:14.840 --> 0:58:17.600 I did an earth Wind and Five song on their show. 0:58:18.520 --> 0:58:21.000 I sang a ballad. I'm trying to remember which one 0:58:21.040 --> 0:58:21.360 it was. 0:58:21.880 --> 0:58:23.880 Do you have a wonderful a song for you? 0:58:24.520 --> 0:58:27.280 Yes, I don't know, maybe from the Head to the 0:58:27.320 --> 0:58:31.040 Sky album or something. Oh you went deep okay, yeah, 0:58:31.200 --> 0:58:33.640 something like that, you know, because he asked me because 0:58:33.640 --> 0:58:36.320 he just wanted to show the people that, you know, 0:58:36.480 --> 0:58:38.040 just I'll see how I you know. 0:58:40.360 --> 0:58:43.280 Or something? Yeah, you know, and it was very smart. 0:58:43.320 --> 0:58:45.440 But yeah, I mean, you're the lead singer. How do 0:58:45.480 --> 0:58:50.200 you know things like eye contact and communicating with the 0:58:50.280 --> 0:58:53.600 audience and you know, make the whole room feel like 0:58:55.120 --> 0:58:58.840 you know, the things that you probably have to lodge 0:58:59.040 --> 0:59:01.560 one hundred shows on your belt to truly know, like 0:59:01.880 --> 0:59:04.160 back in your hand, are you just being thrown in 0:59:04.200 --> 0:59:06.440 the river like singer swim she was up. 0:59:07.120 --> 0:59:10.400 But see again, as I said, I wasn't threatened by that, 0:59:10.640 --> 0:59:12.760 not not about being on the front of the stage, 0:59:12.800 --> 0:59:15.960 because I was always that guy, like if I had 0:59:16.000 --> 0:59:19.280 a band and then the band was called the Street 0:59:19.360 --> 0:59:23.600 Dancer or or or play. So I was always JT 0:59:23.760 --> 0:59:24.880 you know, and got it. 0:59:24.880 --> 0:59:25.880 And we were thirty. 0:59:26.280 --> 0:59:28.600 That wasn't your first show ever, like you. 0:59:28.280 --> 0:59:30.600 No, No, When I was thirteen, we did the Apollo. 0:59:31.240 --> 0:59:32.040 What was that? 0:59:32.240 --> 0:59:33.880 Like? That was scary. 0:59:34.680 --> 0:59:35.720 I think we're like thirteen. 0:59:36.320 --> 0:59:39.480 We were trying to, you know, make this something we 0:59:39.480 --> 0:59:41.640 were going to do, you know, like our little band. 0:59:41.720 --> 0:59:45.920 And in fact, we did the Intruders, Cowboys, the Girls, 0:59:46.200 --> 0:59:49.760 We did the rehearsal. And I never forget at the Apollo, 0:59:50.320 --> 0:59:51.760 I never I didn't think it was going to be 0:59:51.800 --> 0:59:55.560 this raggedy downstairs right where all the guests were. And 0:59:55.600 --> 0:59:57.760 there was the stairs that you had led us, you know, 0:59:57.840 --> 0:59:59.520 to go up to the stage, and there was this 0:59:59.720 --> 1:00:04.080 huge rat trap under the staircase. And I'm saying what 1:00:04.120 --> 1:00:08.000 the hell? And we're all sitting in and I'm saying, okay, 1:00:08.080 --> 1:00:11.600 so you just blanket out of your mind. So that night, 1:00:12.600 --> 1:00:16.000 our biggest thing was to make sure that Sandman didn't 1:00:16.040 --> 1:00:19.480 hook us off stage. That was our goal. If we 1:00:19.520 --> 1:00:22.120 could do that, we got it, and we actually came 1:00:22.160 --> 1:00:26.280 in third place. And this guy, uh, this older guy 1:00:26.360 --> 1:00:29.360 that's saying nat King Cole by the way and on 1:00:29.400 --> 1:00:33.400 the piano, he won that night. But we didn't get 1:00:33.400 --> 1:00:35.560 pulled off. We just we were in the line, you know, 1:00:36.120 --> 1:00:38.800 well first he was thinking hand clapped, you know, third 1:00:38.960 --> 1:00:41.240 you know, he said, okay, you guys, come off, and 1:00:41.280 --> 1:00:44.480 then he won. So we were just relieved that we 1:00:44.920 --> 1:00:46.600 didn't get pulled off by sand Man. 1:00:47.360 --> 1:00:51.080 Which member of pulling the gang was the most diplomatic 1:00:52.200 --> 1:00:55.240 and welcoming you into the fold because you're also a 1:00:55.360 --> 1:00:59.680 rookie kind of coming to an established house where you know, 1:01:00.800 --> 1:01:03.240 even there was a point where Alan Iverson had to 1:01:03.280 --> 1:01:06.520 carry the bags of six ers that he was better. 1:01:06.280 --> 1:01:09.880 Than yea, yeah, yeah, I didn't do any of that. 1:01:10.360 --> 1:01:13.600 Which member was the most diplomatic in welcoming you into 1:01:13.600 --> 1:01:14.000 the fold? 1:01:15.480 --> 1:01:19.200 I would say it was calise and cool, because cool 1:01:19.280 --> 1:01:22.840 at the time. In fact, when we first started going 1:01:22.880 --> 1:01:26.760 through the House of Music, he actually came up from 1:01:26.880 --> 1:01:30.800 Jersey City and picked me up from my home and 1:01:31.120 --> 1:01:33.760 he drove me down and back home. So Cool was 1:01:33.840 --> 1:01:36.680 more like like that guy. And you know, we started 1:01:36.680 --> 1:01:39.600 hanging out as well. But he and I'll say it, Calise, 1:01:39.640 --> 1:01:43.240 I went like to meet his mom, like Cool's Calise's 1:01:43.280 --> 1:01:46.440 mom and stuff like that, you know, And I just 1:01:46.480 --> 1:01:48.800 think they realized I was, like, you know, I was 1:01:48.800 --> 1:01:51.560 a down guy, like you know, like you could you know. 1:01:51.600 --> 1:01:54.120 I wasn't like a rough rider, you know, but I 1:01:54.200 --> 1:01:55.160 wasn't wasn't. 1:01:54.960 --> 1:01:56.800 No punk either, you know. 1:01:56.840 --> 1:01:59.560 I was just like and musically, you know, I could 1:01:59.560 --> 1:02:02.360 talk to them, and I actually learned so much from 1:02:02.600 --> 1:02:05.840 just sitting around listening because my mother said, just keep 1:02:05.880 --> 1:02:08.080 your ears open. You don't have to talk all the time. 1:02:08.160 --> 1:02:08.360 You know. 1:02:09.160 --> 1:02:11.520 Are you significantly younger than them or. 1:02:12.000 --> 1:02:14.560 Just a few years like three? I think George was 1:02:15.240 --> 1:02:17.840 three years at least was two. 1:02:18.400 --> 1:02:21.439 I think Cool was three, so it wasn't too far. 1:02:21.480 --> 1:02:23.280 But a lot of people thought I was a lot 1:02:23.320 --> 1:02:24.040 younger than them. 1:02:24.200 --> 1:02:25.480 I thought you were the baby brother. 1:02:26.080 --> 1:02:28.040 Yeah yeah, yeah, okay. 1:02:28.560 --> 1:02:32.840 Which remember would you have the most conflicts with. 1:02:33.920 --> 1:02:37.040 Well in the beginning, you know, none I was, I 1:02:37.120 --> 1:02:39.920 was hanging out with everybody. But I don't even know 1:02:39.960 --> 1:02:45.600 where it turned. But uh, for some reason, d ted started. 1:02:46.440 --> 1:02:48.720 We started rubbing a little bit, you know, And I 1:02:48.720 --> 1:02:52.400 didn't understand what happened because I was I remember him 1:02:52.720 --> 1:02:56.680 and Penwa bringing their daughter Michelle to my room to 1:02:56.720 --> 1:02:57.040 meet me. 1:02:57.840 --> 1:03:00.000 Actress Michelle actors. 1:02:59.680 --> 1:03:01.560 Yeah, the late yeah, and. 1:03:03.680 --> 1:03:06.840 Ocle if ever matters, and so you. 1:03:06.800 --> 1:03:09.520 Know, it was all all good man were hanging out, 1:03:09.560 --> 1:03:14.480 party together, and somewhere along the line, you know, we 1:03:14.680 --> 1:03:17.520 just started friction. And I just didn't understand it because 1:03:17.880 --> 1:03:21.400 we were constantly, you know, banging out songs. You know, 1:03:22.160 --> 1:03:24.280 we were in the studio all the time, and if 1:03:24.280 --> 1:03:25.880 we were in the studio, we were on the road, 1:03:26.720 --> 1:03:29.880 and most of those albums we were actually touring and 1:03:29.920 --> 1:03:32.600 would come home off the road and go right to 1:03:32.640 --> 1:03:35.880 the studio, and we, I think for almost a decade, 1:03:35.920 --> 1:03:38.880 we never had a vacation, you know, So I didn't 1:03:38.920 --> 1:03:43.520 understand what the success what happened. I tend to believe 1:03:44.080 --> 1:03:48.240 that more of the focus became on me than the group, 1:03:49.240 --> 1:03:51.720 and and I used to tell them, I said, listen, man, 1:03:52.840 --> 1:03:55.640 who's in the studio with you, who's on the stage 1:03:55.680 --> 1:03:58.160 with you. These people are going to say whatever they 1:03:58.240 --> 1:04:02.360 you know, they want, and any band, they usually gravitate 1:04:02.440 --> 1:04:04.680 to the lead singer no matter, you know, if you 1:04:04.840 --> 1:04:08.280 had the Stone, people know Mick Jacket or Genesis, they 1:04:08.360 --> 1:04:11.720 know you know Phil, you know. So it's not put 1:04:11.800 --> 1:04:13.880 you down or anything like that. It's just the way 1:04:13.960 --> 1:04:17.200 things are. Because I was never into that mindset or 1:04:18.000 --> 1:04:20.760 just here I said, man, listen, if it wasn't for 1:04:20.800 --> 1:04:23.120 this guy being in the room, this wouldn't have happened. 1:04:23.560 --> 1:04:24.720 And I never forget that. 1:04:25.120 --> 1:04:28.400 Were you singing lead vocals on every song on every 1:04:28.440 --> 1:04:30.480 album as soon as you started on. 1:04:30.520 --> 1:04:33.959 Leadies, yes yeah, But then on it was all yeah, 1:04:34.120 --> 1:04:38.000 and in the shows and the shows yes well. And 1:04:38.080 --> 1:04:41.200 we didn't have like background singers either, so we had 1:04:41.240 --> 1:04:46.360 like horn players singing background and that was sometimes, you know, 1:04:46.360 --> 1:04:48.760 a bit more stressful for me because I would have 1:04:48.840 --> 1:04:53.160 to you know, i'm m singing, singing highs and lows, 1:04:53.600 --> 1:04:59.640 singing background dancing and entertaining, and it started wearing me 1:04:59.640 --> 1:05:00.520 out of little bit. You know. 1:05:01.000 --> 1:05:05.440 Later on for me, this is a rare chance to 1:05:05.520 --> 1:05:08.600 find out, like what my life would have been, like, 1:05:09.560 --> 1:05:11.840 you know, had I been born maybe twenty years earlier. 1:05:12.040 --> 1:05:13.960 Like if me and my best friend in high school 1:05:14.000 --> 1:05:17.280 still say we started a group in seventy nine instead 1:05:17.280 --> 1:05:19.880 of ninety three, then this is about as close as 1:05:19.880 --> 1:05:22.720 I'm going to get to. Hmmm. I wonder what it 1:05:22.760 --> 1:05:25.320 happened if the roots came out like fifteen years earlier. 1:05:25.400 --> 1:05:29.560 So yeah, yeah, was it a strict environment when you 1:05:29.760 --> 1:05:30.360 entered the group? 1:05:30.520 --> 1:05:30.600 Like? 1:05:30.920 --> 1:05:33.080 Was there rules it here too? 1:05:33.640 --> 1:05:37.160 Nothing was said. The only thing when we were my 1:05:37.240 --> 1:05:39.040 first first show I did was till we stopped to 1:05:39.040 --> 1:05:41.360 get stuff to eat, and they were trying to convince 1:05:41.360 --> 1:05:45.640 me not to eat pork because they were only cool, 1:05:45.920 --> 1:05:48.320 uh and police from most of the people thought the 1:05:48.360 --> 1:05:50.600 whole band was, but it was only the two of them, 1:05:51.120 --> 1:05:55.080 and that actually, you know, I didn't mind that. Give 1:05:55.160 --> 1:05:57.840 up bacon then okay, it's food. So but as far 1:05:57.840 --> 1:06:04.080 as like musically they're like through osmosis so to speak, 1:06:04.800 --> 1:06:07.960 it premeated you, you know, and my respect for what 1:06:08.040 --> 1:06:13.080 they did musically, I respected that greatly. So I didn't 1:06:13.080 --> 1:06:15.800 really want to, you know, upset the cart, you know 1:06:15.840 --> 1:06:18.040 what I mean. I was kind of like fit in, 1:06:18.080 --> 1:06:21.040 and I think maybe Calice felt that I had that 1:06:21.080 --> 1:06:24.760 type of spirit too, like them, because after a while 1:06:24.840 --> 1:06:27.680 it was almost like we had so much in common. 1:06:27.760 --> 1:06:32.240 Like they moved their parents moved them from Youngstown for Hi, 1:06:33.120 --> 1:06:36.560 you know, for a better life in Jersey, and my 1:06:36.640 --> 1:06:39.120 mother moved us from South Carolina for a better life 1:06:39.120 --> 1:06:41.400 in Jersey. So there was things that we didn't even 1:06:41.400 --> 1:06:45.000 have to discuss. That was just part of our DNA, 1:06:45.920 --> 1:06:49.080 you know. That made it easy when. 1:06:48.960 --> 1:06:52.840 You're tracking your vocals, what's the particular environment that you're 1:06:52.920 --> 1:06:55.760 used to, Like, is it like a whole crowd of 1:06:55.760 --> 1:06:58.640 them there watching or is it just like do you 1:06:58.680 --> 1:07:03.080 prefer to be alone and just with Calice or just 1:07:03.120 --> 1:07:05.360 someone one person or a mirror. 1:07:06.160 --> 1:07:08.160 And in the beginning, I was so green that I 1:07:08.160 --> 1:07:12.000 had to I wasn't accustomed to singing with headphones. 1:07:13.040 --> 1:07:15.439 Somebody would just say listen, just put one behind your ear. 1:07:16.320 --> 1:07:18.479 And that was kind of weird too, you know, because 1:07:18.480 --> 1:07:20.919 I'm listening to the room and everything. So I had 1:07:20.960 --> 1:07:24.720 I had had to really make adjustments, and it caused 1:07:24.760 --> 1:07:29.120 me to sing fragments like like like part of phrase 1:07:29.280 --> 1:07:32.760 things like that, you know, you know you sing ladies tonight, 1:07:32.840 --> 1:07:35.000 you know, girl y'all got one, you know, then we 1:07:35.080 --> 1:07:37.000 have to go back go yah, you know, do it 1:07:37.040 --> 1:07:40.760 over again instead of singing through. And but I found 1:07:40.800 --> 1:07:43.760 out that the more that I studied the song and 1:07:43.840 --> 1:07:47.720 I knew it lyrically, then I could ingest the point 1:07:48.040 --> 1:07:51.040 of the song and that made it a lot freer 1:07:51.080 --> 1:07:55.040 for me. But I didn't really care if who was 1:07:55.040 --> 1:07:57.240 in the studio because I didn't really see them anyway. 1:07:57.600 --> 1:08:01.600 I would mostly see Dio and like Jim Bonafon and 1:08:01.640 --> 1:08:05.440 maybe somebody who was in the corner. But the concentration 1:08:05.640 --> 1:08:09.120 was just trying to do the best performance. I really 1:08:09.160 --> 1:08:11.400 wasn't worried about the people got it. 1:08:11.840 --> 1:08:16.080 I'm one of those music kids that never gravitates towards 1:08:16.080 --> 1:08:19.080 the single. And that's because, you know, in Philly before 1:08:20.200 --> 1:08:23.720 kind of in nineteen ninety seven, bill was signed in 1:08:23.840 --> 1:08:28.200 which like radio conglomerates could pre program all their own music. 1:08:28.240 --> 1:08:32.200 You know, Black radio pretty much let their DJs be 1:08:32.400 --> 1:08:35.040 the taste maker, and you know. 1:08:35.080 --> 1:08:38.200 Yeah, and DJs had names, you know, right. 1:08:38.080 --> 1:08:42.599 So that said cats like Doug Henderson, doctor Perry Johnson, 1:08:42.640 --> 1:08:44.679 like all the Philly cats spinning a das. 1:08:45.400 --> 1:08:46.200 You know, it's weird. 1:08:46.760 --> 1:08:48.679 They played Jones versus Jones. 1:08:49.800 --> 1:08:52.040 Yeah, yeah, I know more. 1:08:52.360 --> 1:08:55.080 Than like Jones versus Jones? Was that even a single? 1:08:55.560 --> 1:08:56.200 Oh? 1:08:56.479 --> 1:09:00.800 I recently found out, maybe like four five years ago 1:09:02.160 --> 1:09:06.679 that Stevie's Isn't She Lovely? Was never a single? 1:09:07.960 --> 1:09:09.960 What that wasn't a single? 1:09:11.040 --> 1:09:15.240 Never a single? Well, but Barry had a genius plan. 1:09:16.439 --> 1:09:21.040 He basically wanted to guarantee a number one debut. So 1:09:22.280 --> 1:09:24.720 it was sort of like she use what you want 1:09:24.760 --> 1:09:27.479 to play off the album and just play it. Most 1:09:27.560 --> 1:09:32.320 people gravitated towards Isn't She Lovely? But then weird enough, 1:09:32.439 --> 1:09:38.560 like almost nine months later, they'll officially release I wish Yeah, yeah, 1:09:38.640 --> 1:09:41.920 like a single, but it's like July of seventy seven. 1:09:42.040 --> 1:09:44.960 Like that was a great thing about DJs though, because 1:09:45.200 --> 1:09:47.960 you know, before even though what was that the the 1:09:48.040 --> 1:09:51.599 Late Night Von Harper and all of them, right, Frankie 1:09:51.640 --> 1:09:54.360 Crocker and them, they would they would play singles off albums, 1:09:54.680 --> 1:09:57.200 and that also helped us spread out. So like you, 1:09:57.600 --> 1:09:59.479 I would find songs and say, oh man, they did 1:09:59.600 --> 1:10:02.479 just need to a single, you know, right, And so 1:10:02.520 --> 1:10:06.160 that was that was the power. Man. That was a 1:10:06.160 --> 1:10:06.960 beautiful thing. 1:10:07.240 --> 1:10:10.879 When when something special first came out they weren't playing 1:10:11.280 --> 1:10:12.840 take My Heart, even though I know there was the 1:10:12.840 --> 1:10:19.960 first single, right they was Billy owned Stepping Out. Stepping 1:10:20.000 --> 1:10:23.720 Out should have been the first single. We weren't mad 1:10:23.720 --> 1:10:27.040 at to get down on it that that sufficed. But 1:10:27.400 --> 1:10:29.680 you know, back when DJ's would get promos of the 1:10:29.720 --> 1:10:31.040 albums three months ahead of. 1:10:31.000 --> 1:10:33.880 Time, Yeah, why do you think that's so? Why watch 1:10:33.920 --> 1:10:36.160 Stepping Out? Was that because of the party that the 1:10:36.280 --> 1:10:37.599 stepping parties they had. 1:10:37.720 --> 1:10:39.640 I'm you know, I'm in added all the keys to it. 1:10:39.720 --> 1:10:46.200 You're singing in a smooth falsetto. As a DJ. I 1:10:46.240 --> 1:10:48.800 was like, well, you know, okay, so the group that 1:10:48.880 --> 1:10:51.280 did this all the time was and I kind of 1:10:51.280 --> 1:10:54.240 really ridiculed him for this, but this is also how 1:10:54.280 --> 1:10:54.559 I live. 1:10:54.600 --> 1:10:55.439 At the Tonight show. 1:10:56.920 --> 1:11:00.439 You play any bark song for me now, and I'll 1:11:00.479 --> 1:11:03.280 tell you the forty five of what they were originally playing. 1:11:03.840 --> 1:11:05.400 It was like, all right, color over it, right. 1:11:05.760 --> 1:11:08.280 Right, yeah, listen is Ruben scub and mix this up 1:11:08.360 --> 1:11:12.880 and yeah, like shine is earthwinding fires on your face 1:11:13.040 --> 1:11:16.240 or right right right, shaking rumps to the funks, you 1:11:16.320 --> 1:11:18.840 know what I mean, like very derivat But in my 1:11:18.960 --> 1:11:21.640 mind I was like I was like, I bet you 1:11:22.479 --> 1:11:25.800 stepping out started as a quasi don't stop to get 1:11:25.960 --> 1:11:26.479 enough groove. 1:11:26.840 --> 1:11:29.280 I don't know, but it's possible. 1:11:29.800 --> 1:11:30.559 Answer this for me. 1:11:30.720 --> 1:11:35.120 What is the division of labor when you guys are 1:11:35.240 --> 1:11:39.280 recording in the studio, Like are you all together trying 1:11:39.280 --> 1:11:42.360 to jam something out or is it like here's your part, 1:11:42.400 --> 1:11:45.400 here's your part, here's your part, and then you write 1:11:45.400 --> 1:11:45.960 the song later. 1:11:47.040 --> 1:11:49.479 It was all of that. Sometime we would be playing together, 1:11:49.680 --> 1:11:53.160 but most of the time after Ladies' night, people would 1:11:53.160 --> 1:11:57.360 bringing bits and pieces, like like when Chale we did Joanna. 1:11:57.760 --> 1:12:04.200 Charles came in. It was just a stroke guitar and 1:12:04.520 --> 1:12:07.559 he wanted to dedicate it to his mother and we 1:12:07.560 --> 1:12:09.240 were sitting there and said, okay. 1:12:09.320 --> 1:12:10.760 Dear mom, that's what he called it. 1:12:10.840 --> 1:12:14.680 We say, well, well what else? Man? No, And it 1:12:14.800 --> 1:12:17.760 wasn't really much going on. And I think George was 1:12:17.800 --> 1:12:19.839 the one that said, let's let's let's just take. 1:12:19.640 --> 1:12:22.400 A name Joanna Nobody. It wasn't a Joanna. 1:12:22.479 --> 1:12:24.759 We knew. He just grabbed a name and it sang 1:12:25.000 --> 1:12:29.000 really well and we never changed it. For example, who 1:12:29.000 --> 1:12:32.880 directed that video, I don't know who was that We 1:12:32.920 --> 1:12:37.519 shot that acting up in north Bergen on the first 1:12:37.520 --> 1:12:41.000 part and then over in Lynnhurst, New Jersey. 1:12:40.880 --> 1:12:41.599 At the diner. 1:12:42.479 --> 1:12:46.120 I forget who who actually shot that though that was 1:12:46.160 --> 1:12:46.639 a lot of. 1:12:46.520 --> 1:12:54.320 Fun in retrospect, how Burdisom was celebration because this wasn't 1:12:55.000 --> 1:12:58.400 like at the rate where you released this song. Do 1:12:58.479 --> 1:13:03.400 you realize that this song is not just a hit 1:13:03.479 --> 1:13:07.519 song like that. This song is never ever going to die, 1:13:08.160 --> 1:13:10.120 ever ever, ever ever going to die. 1:13:10.600 --> 1:13:12.760 It's funny you say that because I don't know if 1:13:12.800 --> 1:13:14.559 you had you had a long talk with police, But 1:13:15.439 --> 1:13:21.640 I don't think police liked the guitar riff. Really, there 1:13:21.720 --> 1:13:23.719 was a part that he didn't like too much because 1:13:23.720 --> 1:13:26.439 we came off the road and it was it was 1:13:26.479 --> 1:13:27.960 a part that was done. I think it was a 1:13:28.000 --> 1:13:31.639 guitar riff and he was really pissed off about that. 1:13:32.360 --> 1:13:35.840 We used to take the cassettes home to study, and 1:13:36.040 --> 1:13:37.000 this is the truth. 1:13:37.640 --> 1:13:38.719 I played it for my mother. 1:13:39.320 --> 1:13:40.439 That's what you think about that. 1:13:40.760 --> 1:13:42.320 She said, you're going to sing that for the rest 1:13:42.360 --> 1:13:47.240 of your life. Really, i Q I'm telling you, bro. 1:13:47.920 --> 1:13:50.200 She was always like that. She was intuitive, but with 1:13:50.240 --> 1:13:52.479 certain things. You know, she said, you're going to sing 1:13:52.520 --> 1:13:54.800 that for the rest of your life and here we are. 1:13:55.120 --> 1:13:57.519 That's why that was enough for me, but we didn't 1:13:57.560 --> 1:13:58.360 know as a group though. 1:13:58.800 --> 1:14:03.639 That song is still in my DJ playlist, but now 1:14:03.760 --> 1:14:07.960 it has a new meaning because I played the Spanish version. 1:14:09.040 --> 1:14:10.799 Yeah yeah, and. 1:14:10.680 --> 1:14:13.880 When people like, you know, when people were playing the 1:14:13.880 --> 1:14:16.639 hook like I'll eq, it's such that they think they're 1:14:16.680 --> 1:14:19.760 in the regular version, and then when I put the 1:14:19.760 --> 1:14:23.240 Spanish version on, it's always the moments where they stop 1:14:24.280 --> 1:14:26.880 and they look at me and it's like they got 1:14:26.960 --> 1:14:27.720 processed for. 1:14:28.120 --> 1:14:30.639 Four seconds right right, and then. 1:14:30.560 --> 1:14:33.320 Like they're really like it almost energizes the more that 1:14:33.400 --> 1:14:36.120 you guys would have been so considerate. I mean Motown 1:14:36.200 --> 1:14:39.439 used to do that all the time. But whatever burdens some. 1:14:39.680 --> 1:14:41.800 To Yeah, that was a big thing to do, but 1:14:41.960 --> 1:14:45.880 we were really huge in South America. They and that 1:14:46.040 --> 1:14:48.880 was the labels idea. They said, listen, man, you got 1:14:48.920 --> 1:14:52.559 a huge following to South America. Let's try the Spanish version. 1:14:52.640 --> 1:14:55.040 And Diodado actually wrote out the lyrics for me. 1:14:55.520 --> 1:14:57.200 How did you guys hook up with Dia Datto? 1:14:57.880 --> 1:15:00.800 I don't know how he came into play, except that 1:15:00.960 --> 1:15:03.560 I think he was working at House of Music. Was 1:15:03.600 --> 1:15:08.160 a John Trope if I'm not mistaken, and gave in 1:15:08.240 --> 1:15:11.320 them talk to him about you know, producing cool in 1:15:11.320 --> 1:15:13.880 the gang. That was before I came, so I don't 1:15:13.920 --> 1:15:15.679 really know that entire story. 1:15:16.120 --> 1:15:20.160 What was your daughter from your perspective bringing to the production, 1:15:20.479 --> 1:15:23.600 to the making of the music or the arrangements or 1:15:23.640 --> 1:15:24.240 anything like that. 1:15:24.439 --> 1:15:26.360 Well, the most I had heard, you know, he was 1:15:26.400 --> 1:15:31.400 this unbelievable arranger. I didn't know much about him, and 1:15:31.439 --> 1:15:33.280 so I just started looking them up, you know, and 1:15:33.320 --> 1:15:35.800 I think he had Did he have two thousand and 1:15:35.880 --> 1:15:41.280 one space honesty? Yeah, yeah at that time, but beyond 1:15:41.320 --> 1:15:43.760 But more so than that, I just heard that his 1:15:44.280 --> 1:15:48.640 collection of and respect that he had as an arranger 1:15:49.120 --> 1:15:53.920 was pretty pretty widespread. Everybody that spoke of him spoke 1:15:54.040 --> 1:15:56.800 very highly of him. So when he would talk to 1:15:56.880 --> 1:16:00.960 us about music, it wasn't so much telling us this 1:16:01.040 --> 1:16:03.720 is that I'm going to put this major chord here 1:16:03.760 --> 1:16:06.200 and this minor. It wasn't that, it was just he 1:16:06.240 --> 1:16:07.880 would do it, and he would always do. 1:16:07.880 --> 1:16:10.719 It with a smile, with his little cigarette in his mouth. 1:16:10.800 --> 1:16:14.360 You know, his piece and you know, an unassuming guy. 1:16:14.880 --> 1:16:18.080 But when he brought the orchestra in to do the 1:16:18.160 --> 1:16:23.040 streaming work, that's when I opened my mind again and 1:16:23.080 --> 1:16:25.320 saw him, they you know, they greeted him as doctor, 1:16:25.920 --> 1:16:29.479 and I said yes, And it actually flipped me back 1:16:29.520 --> 1:16:32.360 to when I was in high school or what was it, 1:16:32.640 --> 1:16:36.240 maybe grade school when my my music teacher took us 1:16:36.320 --> 1:16:39.599 to see how the West was Won in New York. 1:16:39.640 --> 1:16:42.400 The movie but it was a screenplay, and I mean 1:16:42.479 --> 1:16:44.920 screen was on a movie was on screen, but there 1:16:44.960 --> 1:16:47.240 was a real orchestra. And that was my first time 1:16:47.280 --> 1:16:50.320 seeing an orchestra. So when I saw dal do that, 1:16:50.439 --> 1:16:53.400 you know, I had become accustomed to first be quiet 1:16:54.200 --> 1:16:57.519 and listen and understand how parts work together. 1:16:58.479 --> 1:17:00.840 I was always curious what he was bringing to that 1:17:01.360 --> 1:17:02.160 the recipe. 1:17:02.800 --> 1:17:06.760 Yeah, it was I again, I'm all ears man and 1:17:07.040 --> 1:17:09.240 just bringing it all in. And I think that his 1:17:09.479 --> 1:17:11.560 the key thing was just his arrangements. 1:17:12.200 --> 1:17:14.200 Yeah. Was he playing any of the keyboards? 1:17:15.040 --> 1:17:15.320 Uh? 1:17:15.400 --> 1:17:16.599 Yeah, sometimes he did. 1:17:16.680 --> 1:17:18.799 Yeah, But he also brought in a couple of people, 1:17:19.120 --> 1:17:22.519 this guy named Adam on Too Hot. If you listen 1:17:22.560 --> 1:17:25.360 to Too Hot real close, there's a Fender Rods in 1:17:25.400 --> 1:17:28.840 the back besides the whole courts that are playing, and 1:17:28.880 --> 1:17:33.200 it's it's making these certain movements that each time I 1:17:32.360 --> 1:17:36.280 I have a band keyboards try to play it, they 1:17:36.360 --> 1:17:40.320 usually uh miss that because the movements have all these 1:17:40.320 --> 1:17:43.720 overtones going, you know, for those roads had that beautiful 1:17:44.080 --> 1:17:48.160 reverb bottom you know. So, but yeah, he was, he's 1:17:48.200 --> 1:17:51.720 he's a master man, he's he's a treasurer. Now. I 1:17:51.760 --> 1:17:55.080 think if he had met him, or the Groove had 1:17:55.120 --> 1:18:00.719 met him, we wouldn't have all these hits. 1:18:02.240 --> 1:18:06.519 I would probably say that something special is that's sentimental 1:18:06.560 --> 1:18:08.479 to me, because you know, I got that for Christmas. 1:18:08.479 --> 1:18:13.080 It was Christmas. Christmas of eighty one. 1:18:13.040 --> 1:18:14.240 Was a special Christmas one. 1:18:14.320 --> 1:18:15.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1:18:15.080 --> 1:18:18.880 Of your canon, which album do you feel is your 1:18:19.960 --> 1:18:23.640 best performance and of your song catalog? 1:18:24.400 --> 1:18:26.360 How are you going to steal my question like this 1:18:26.760 --> 1:18:29.679 mister quest left take it away? Well, no, no, because 1:18:29.760 --> 1:18:32.000 actually they are coming from you because it's kind of like, 1:18:32.360 --> 1:18:34.479 you know, it's kind of you're not supposed to ask 1:18:34.560 --> 1:18:36.960 this question really, you know, like because they're all in 1:18:37.040 --> 1:18:37.759 your baby. 1:18:37.840 --> 1:18:38.840 Yeah, what's your favorite kid? 1:18:38.960 --> 1:18:43.000 You like? Yeah, right, exactly. But I'll say the album wise, 1:18:43.040 --> 1:18:47.559 it would be Emergency Okay, wow, Emergency album. But I 1:18:47.600 --> 1:18:48.200 think that. 1:18:48.240 --> 1:18:49.960 Was also the biggest selling correct. 1:18:50.160 --> 1:18:52.240 Yeah, yeah, biggest self. 1:18:52.520 --> 1:18:55.960 But I still say, you know too Hot has something 1:18:56.000 --> 1:18:59.519 that's romantic that because when I listen to it, you know, 1:18:59.520 --> 1:19:03.400 I could listen and I remember how again I was 1:19:03.479 --> 1:19:07.559 still learning things, and I could hear vocal things that 1:19:07.600 --> 1:19:08.240 I said. 1:19:09.800 --> 1:19:13.799 Would do that now, you know, or things that, being more. 1:19:13.640 --> 1:19:17.040 Mature and able to do more with my voice now 1:19:17.720 --> 1:19:20.960 things I would have tried something a little different. But 1:19:21.479 --> 1:19:26.960 I think too Hot as a song, but Emergency as 1:19:27.000 --> 1:19:27.479 the album. 1:19:28.360 --> 1:19:30.880 Wait, I don't know if I got the answer. Did 1:19:31.000 --> 1:19:33.120 Celebration become burdensome at all? 1:19:33.880 --> 1:19:33.960 Like? 1:19:34.040 --> 1:19:36.040 Did it get too big for you? Do you feel 1:19:36.080 --> 1:19:39.160 like it was ridiculed too much? Was it too successful? 1:19:39.960 --> 1:19:40.240 No? 1:19:40.320 --> 1:19:43.519 Not for me, Like this song took you places that 1:19:44.240 --> 1:19:47.800 I don't think your other contemporaries like, they weren't your contemporaries. 1:19:47.840 --> 1:19:51.760 It wasn't like BT Express or Mass Production or hell 1:19:51.840 --> 1:19:55.200 even Earth Wind and Fire kind of stalled at the 1:19:55.240 --> 1:19:57.439 gate of the early eighties, and you guys were able 1:19:57.439 --> 1:20:00.240 to go places that they weren't able to ago. 1:20:00.840 --> 1:20:04.960 It was electric man, because again, you know, you know, 1:20:05.040 --> 1:20:08.200 you write songs and when you finish, you just feel 1:20:08.240 --> 1:20:10.559 good about it. You don't know what's going to happen 1:20:10.600 --> 1:20:12.439 with it. You know, you just put your heart and 1:20:12.479 --> 1:20:15.680 soul into it. And that's basically what we did. And 1:20:15.720 --> 1:20:18.360 there was the pieces. We had a mechanic over here. 1:20:18.439 --> 1:20:20.800 One got twisted and knob there, this guy turned that 1:20:20.880 --> 1:20:24.160 one just did that, and we put it together and 1:20:24.200 --> 1:20:26.160 the label said, I think we got something. 1:20:26.760 --> 1:20:28.760 But you know, if the machine isn't. 1:20:28.479 --> 1:20:31.280 There a lot of songs that may have been a 1:20:31.320 --> 1:20:35.360 celebration level, you know, don't make it. We had everything, 1:20:35.520 --> 1:20:38.840 everything was lined up for us, you know, and with 1:20:38.920 --> 1:20:42.280 me becoming more of a face and a sound that 1:20:42.439 --> 1:20:46.519 was becoming familiar, they kind of went with that, you know, 1:20:46.880 --> 1:20:49.680 and even the yahoos and all that stuff. And you know, 1:20:49.760 --> 1:20:52.240 I always tell that joke, you're not you very rarely 1:20:52.560 --> 1:20:54.520 hear like a black group say Yahoo. 1:20:54.720 --> 1:20:56.040 You know, that's. 1:20:55.640 --> 1:20:58.479 Usually doubt for the country groups, you know what I mean. 1:20:59.520 --> 1:21:01.679 But it was again, you know, you got the low voice. 1:21:01.720 --> 1:21:03.960 It's a solo graces, you know, so. 1:21:04.320 --> 1:21:05.759 Something for everybody to sing. 1:21:06.000 --> 1:21:09.040 Yeah, yeah, and you just sing along. And we talked 1:21:09.040 --> 1:21:11.439 about the Bob mitchfih you're talking about. You know, the 1:21:11.520 --> 1:21:13.879 worst thing is when you hear them playing the wrong inversion. 1:21:14.640 --> 1:21:17.360 I'm sure you've been pretty to every version of celebration 1:21:17.520 --> 1:21:18.040 knowing the man. 1:21:18.760 --> 1:21:21.280 I'm telling you, man, and the worst when they tried 1:21:21.320 --> 1:21:23.280 to get me to come up and sing, no, I 1:21:23.320 --> 1:21:24.680 have too many drinks already, so. 1:21:27.840 --> 1:21:31.479 Oh cool game saying at our hostell Yah, yeah exactly, 1:21:31.840 --> 1:21:34.920 Jay Tay, you come down, don't about so if you 1:21:34.920 --> 1:21:36.479 don't want to answer, you don't have to answer. 1:21:37.120 --> 1:21:37.920 Go go to it. 1:21:37.960 --> 1:21:38.160 Man. 1:21:38.640 --> 1:21:40.360 What were the hedonistic eighties? 1:21:40.600 --> 1:21:45.640 Like girls, girls, girls, some drugs? All right, but we 1:21:45.680 --> 1:21:48.680 did we didn't really really get into that. It was 1:21:48.760 --> 1:21:56.639 just again, the the success became big within a year 1:21:56.760 --> 1:22:00.840 to two year period that it consume us in a 1:22:00.880 --> 1:22:04.320 way that we did. I don't think that the group 1:22:04.439 --> 1:22:08.479 knew how to be how to receive it in that way, 1:22:08.520 --> 1:22:08.760 you know. 1:22:09.560 --> 1:22:12.640 So for you to come in at seventy nine and 1:22:12.640 --> 1:22:18.360 you're pretty much coming into a situation one you know 1:22:18.560 --> 1:22:22.160 that bring success and you're kind of the reason for 1:22:22.240 --> 1:22:27.280 that success. Yeah, But I always wanted to know for 1:22:27.439 --> 1:22:32.000 the band members that were there before nineteen sixty nine, 1:22:32.000 --> 1:22:36.519 before the label deals and all that stuff, or Spike 1:22:36.800 --> 1:22:44.439 for DT for Cool, for Calice, for George, what is 1:22:44.520 --> 1:22:45.599 success for them? 1:22:45.800 --> 1:22:45.880 Like? 1:22:47.000 --> 1:22:51.400 I mean, you guys are the only Americans besides Jody 1:22:51.479 --> 1:22:56.439 Wattley at do they know it's Christmas? Right, But you 1:22:56.520 --> 1:23:03.519 guys are at a crazy level of notariety. So how 1:23:03.520 --> 1:23:06.799 are they adjusting to this? If you can speak for them. 1:23:07.040 --> 1:23:10.240 I really can't. But all I know is that we 1:23:10.360 --> 1:23:14.560 all shared and everything equally. It wasn't like at a 1:23:14.640 --> 1:23:17.200 certain point, you know, when we were at one time 1:23:17.240 --> 1:23:20.080 flying coach, you know what I mean, then you're flying 1:23:20.120 --> 1:23:24.120 first class full you know, when attensions started happening. I 1:23:24.160 --> 1:23:27.840 started having my own car. Stuff like that happened. But 1:23:28.880 --> 1:23:31.960 when we hit the stage, it was about let's go 1:23:32.000 --> 1:23:35.200 take this, let's put the flag down, you know, and 1:23:35.200 --> 1:23:37.920 and all of this stuff really helped me segue into 1:23:37.960 --> 1:23:40.080 my solo career, right. 1:23:40.240 --> 1:23:41.840 It was. It was a really proven ground. 1:23:41.840 --> 1:23:45.679 But I can't really speak to how they received it, 1:23:46.439 --> 1:23:51.080 whether they were overjoyed, because they never said to me, 1:23:51.960 --> 1:23:53.720 you know, don't forget this is the group, you know, 1:23:53.960 --> 1:23:56.639 or don't think you're too big, and stuff like that 1:23:56.640 --> 1:24:01.160 that came from outside, you know, And it was time 1:24:01.320 --> 1:24:03.559 for me to make my exit. It had reached a 1:24:03.680 --> 1:24:08.479 height where that type of tension had gotten too much 1:24:08.560 --> 1:24:11.559 and I didn't think that they had my back anymore. 1:24:11.840 --> 1:24:14.519 And we did a show it and I forget it. 1:24:14.600 --> 1:24:19.640 New Year's done, Atlantic City, and I had flu and 1:24:19.680 --> 1:24:22.080 I was really, really sick. And of course back then, 1:24:22.320 --> 1:24:25.280 I was about one point fifty, you know what I mean, 1:24:25.640 --> 1:24:29.479 soaking wet, and we had been touring and it was 1:24:29.479 --> 1:24:31.519 the end of the year, and you know, New Year's 1:24:31.600 --> 1:24:34.880 was always big Moneay night, and I was sick, but 1:24:35.000 --> 1:24:38.880 I refused not to perform. And I went out there 1:24:39.720 --> 1:24:45.240 and sound voices half gone, and I doing cherish and 1:24:45.280 --> 1:24:48.920 I closed. I closed my eyes, and when I tried 1:24:48.920 --> 1:24:52.360 to open them, all I saw was red. No, not 1:24:52.400 --> 1:24:55.800 an object, just a wall of red, like just red. 1:24:56.479 --> 1:25:00.599 And I froze and I opened my eyes again and 1:25:00.600 --> 1:25:04.240 it came open, but then it went red again, and 1:25:04.280 --> 1:25:08.400 I got scared to death, man, and I was able 1:25:08.439 --> 1:25:11.200 to walk backstage, and poor, I think poor. I pulled 1:25:11.280 --> 1:25:14.720 cool off of somebody. I said, listen, play play jungle Boy. 1:25:14.760 --> 1:25:16.479 Holly was swinging something. Let me go back here and 1:25:16.560 --> 1:25:20.160 get myself together. And when I couldn't, I had to 1:25:20.160 --> 1:25:24.240 come back out. And I left the stage that particular night. 1:25:24.479 --> 1:25:27.960 I'm back there and all my family was at the audience. 1:25:27.960 --> 1:25:30.719 You know, they ran backstage. People even fans were coming 1:25:30.720 --> 1:25:32.400 back saying you know what's wrong with what happened. They 1:25:32.439 --> 1:25:35.599 knew something was wrong because I've never been like this 1:25:35.960 --> 1:25:38.479 and I'm sitting in my room and none of the 1:25:38.520 --> 1:25:40.879 guys came over to see how I was doing, except 1:25:41.120 --> 1:25:44.000 one guy, Curtis that he told them, he say, God, 1:25:44.160 --> 1:25:46.519 didn't you see this guy sick? You know he can't 1:25:46.560 --> 1:25:51.599 do it. And that part hurt me more because I 1:25:51.680 --> 1:25:55.080 felt that their interest was more worrying about making. 1:25:54.800 --> 1:25:56.960 The money that brand. 1:25:57.040 --> 1:26:00.880 A guy who've been here since the label was gonna 1:26:01.040 --> 1:26:03.800 was going to drop you guys in the seventies and 1:26:03.880 --> 1:26:06.240 we got together and it was never I never claimed 1:26:06.280 --> 1:26:08.880 it was just me, you know, never had that attitude. 1:26:09.280 --> 1:26:12.280 But to get to this point and you don't even 1:26:12.280 --> 1:26:15.000 come back to check on a guy, I said, that's 1:26:15.040 --> 1:26:15.880 it and I. 1:26:15.840 --> 1:26:16.559 And I left. 1:26:17.120 --> 1:26:18.240 That's how you left the group. 1:26:18.720 --> 1:26:22.599 Yeah, that night, I called my family and I said, 1:26:22.640 --> 1:26:23.040 I got it. 1:26:23.240 --> 1:26:24.400 I can't do this anymore. 1:26:25.200 --> 1:26:28.320 So it was it was obviously back to your question 1:26:28.439 --> 1:26:33.479 that they must have felt something along the way, more 1:26:33.520 --> 1:26:36.760 than what I felt of them, because I never looked 1:26:36.800 --> 1:26:40.519 at them any other way except what we did. And uh, 1:26:40.640 --> 1:26:42.920 but that was that was that was a rough time 1:26:43.080 --> 1:26:46.360 because I was really really sick. But I never let on. 1:26:47.280 --> 1:26:49.559 And you know I've had that many times over the years. 1:26:49.560 --> 1:26:52.600 I was not well and I still did shows, you know, 1:26:52.640 --> 1:26:56.160 because I knew I had more responsibility just myself. You know, 1:26:56.240 --> 1:26:59.680 they had families, you know, themselves. We had records to 1:26:59.760 --> 1:27:02.760 break and you know, sacrifice, man, you know, you can 1:27:02.840 --> 1:27:05.320 do this. And many times I just go back to 1:27:05.360 --> 1:27:09.000 my room and you know, taking Mrror and Gen sing 1:27:09.040 --> 1:27:12.360 and you know, all these different things. And I mean 1:27:12.360 --> 1:27:14.519 a cliff for Adams, you know, he would he was 1:27:14.560 --> 1:27:17.000 into all of that and he would be me Golden 1:27:17.040 --> 1:27:19.360 seal and I'm not, you know, trying to get right. 1:27:19.920 --> 1:27:23.240 So but I never let all. Hey man, I can't 1:27:23.240 --> 1:27:26.320 sing the night. You know. Sometime, like when we started 1:27:26.360 --> 1:27:29.920 to sing a stepping Out, it was difficult because it 1:27:30.000 --> 1:27:33.920 was a falsetto and you know, sometimes that click wouldn't 1:27:33.960 --> 1:27:36.400 happen and it would take like a few songs to 1:27:36.479 --> 1:27:38.200 get there, so we'd have to like take that out 1:27:38.240 --> 1:27:40.960 of the set. But most of the time, you know, 1:27:41.000 --> 1:27:43.400 you can walk your way through it, you know. But 1:27:43.400 --> 1:27:47.559 but that was it, man. But again, what I got into, 1:27:47.840 --> 1:27:51.679 you know, my solo solo dealing, you know, my first 1:27:52.720 --> 1:27:56.640 I met with Gerald Busby, and Jerreld said. 1:27:56.400 --> 1:27:59.160 Listen, man, I don't think you need to be at motow. 1:28:00.439 --> 1:28:02.080 You need to go talk to Clive. 1:28:03.400 --> 1:28:07.360 And and I remember sitting with Clive and Clive played 1:28:07.360 --> 1:28:07.640 for me. 1:28:07.680 --> 1:28:09.800 You don't believe that that's what friends are for. 1:28:10.920 --> 1:28:16.320 In his office, you know, with Luther and Stevie and 1:28:15.240 --> 1:28:18.880 and and at that time I thought maybe he felt 1:28:18.880 --> 1:28:20.120 that maybe I should be one. 1:28:20.000 --> 1:28:23.400 That was singing that could do that and make a 1:28:23.400 --> 1:28:24.160 long story short. 1:28:24.560 --> 1:28:27.320 M c A offered me more money, so I ended 1:28:27.400 --> 1:28:29.080 up signing with MCA over. 1:28:28.920 --> 1:28:31.840 There well the Master of the Game album correct. 1:28:31.560 --> 1:28:32.080 Master the Game. 1:28:32.160 --> 1:28:35.200 I was the first, yeah master the game and uh, 1:28:35.240 --> 1:28:38.439 you know working with little Silas over there, the A 1:28:38.600 --> 1:28:38.800 and R. 1:28:39.320 --> 1:28:42.840 I hear a lot about him, but his name always 1:28:42.880 --> 1:28:45.519 comes up when it's like new edition related stories or whatever. 1:28:45.600 --> 1:28:49.680 But what was it like being on your own and 1:28:50.479 --> 1:28:52.080 only having yourself to answer to? 1:28:53.080 --> 1:28:55.400 It was a little frightening, I was must say, go 1:28:55.479 --> 1:28:57.920 frightening because you know I was so used to from 1:28:58.160 --> 1:29:01.479 you know, being a young teenager with the band. You know, 1:29:01.720 --> 1:29:04.880 like I said, Electro five, you know the street dance 1:29:04.920 --> 1:29:07.320 of these bands, file at Soul, you know, moved the gang. 1:29:07.320 --> 1:29:08.000 It was always like. 1:29:08.000 --> 1:29:09.479 A group of collection, you know. 1:29:10.120 --> 1:29:14.439 And when I got out there, I realized that I 1:29:14.479 --> 1:29:19.400 didn't know as much as I needed to know about 1:29:19.640 --> 1:29:23.439 how to really structure songs like complete, you know what 1:29:23.479 --> 1:29:25.559 I mean. I could do parts and things like that, 1:29:25.600 --> 1:29:28.920 but and lyrics, but I didn't claim to be a pianist, 1:29:29.360 --> 1:29:32.519 like a skill musician and nothing like this. But I 1:29:32.520 --> 1:29:36.639 could anything I hear, I can write. I've always had that, 1:29:36.880 --> 1:29:41.840 you know. And when I got with MCA, I realized 1:29:41.880 --> 1:29:44.479 that they wanted me to do something like I had 1:29:44.520 --> 1:29:48.360 done before with cooling them, and I was already beyond that, 1:29:48.960 --> 1:29:51.840 you know. I wanted to be more of a eclectic 1:29:51.960 --> 1:29:55.559 artist and bring in the styles that I loved, you know, 1:29:55.640 --> 1:29:59.200 from rock and all these different things. And so I 1:29:59.240 --> 1:30:01.320 hoped it was had named Dennis mccowski. 1:30:02.040 --> 1:30:02.960 Okay. 1:30:03.160 --> 1:30:07.839 He introduced me to James Ingram Ta Vega, Rose Stone, 1:30:08.880 --> 1:30:13.280 Phil Perry, James, you know, Jeff Picaro, Pelino da Costa, 1:30:13.720 --> 1:30:18.200 and I was like, Okay, this is this. I love this, 1:30:18.200 --> 1:30:21.040 this this collection right here. And that's when I started 1:30:21.040 --> 1:30:23.920 working on Massive Game and plus publishers were sending me 1:30:24.000 --> 1:30:28.400 songs uh to uh to choose from, you know, and 1:30:28.439 --> 1:30:30.800 that kind of helped me a lot. But Louell, he 1:30:30.960 --> 1:30:33.960 was there the whole time trying to help me get 1:30:34.000 --> 1:30:37.320 a hit record, you know, because again I got paid 1:30:37.320 --> 1:30:40.840 well and the record company was just kind of letting 1:30:40.880 --> 1:30:43.920 me do what I wanted to do. And uh, you know, 1:30:44.320 --> 1:30:48.160 the first single, I still think they picked the wrong song. 1:30:49.160 --> 1:30:50.120 They picked the other songs. 1:30:50.160 --> 1:30:54.360 Sister Rosa and I did a video with Michael Peters, 1:30:54.400 --> 1:30:56.640 you know who did Thriller, you know, with Michael and 1:30:56.720 --> 1:31:00.280 all that stuff, and we went did the whole video 1:31:00.280 --> 1:31:02.479 and everything like this, but they didn't jump on the 1:31:02.560 --> 1:31:06.360 record because I still think they should have chosen Romancia 1:31:06.520 --> 1:31:10.439 or some other yeah, yeah, you know, And uh so 1:31:10.520 --> 1:31:13.320 that kind of a little bit of taste there, and 1:31:13.439 --> 1:31:16.479 you know, people were expecting j T the song. You know, 1:31:16.520 --> 1:31:18.680 it ain't no ladies night, you know, when are you 1:31:18.760 --> 1:31:22.120 gonna do that? And I was doing my interviews, I'd 1:31:22.120 --> 1:31:25.960 tell everybody, I said, well I did that, and my 1:31:26.120 --> 1:31:27.240 mind isn't there now. 1:31:28.120 --> 1:31:31.240 And that's when I think Bobby Brown hit a. 1:31:31.120 --> 1:31:35.160 New audition, right and by Bobby was blowing the doors out, 1:31:35.360 --> 1:31:38.880 you know, right there, and they said, well won't you 1:31:38.880 --> 1:31:39.920 give me something like that. 1:31:40.280 --> 1:31:41.439 And I was like, I. 1:31:41.360 --> 1:31:43.599 Said, then you talked to Bobby and he's like, well man, 1:31:43.640 --> 1:31:45.639 we tried to be like what you what you did? 1:31:46.160 --> 1:31:46.320 You know? 1:31:46.920 --> 1:31:49.040 So how you guys telling me to do something like that? 1:31:49.160 --> 1:31:51.639 So it started that. That's when the mill started turning 1:31:52.240 --> 1:31:55.479 and we knew we had to you know, kind of 1:31:55.520 --> 1:31:58.600 go back at it, you know. And and even with 1:31:58.720 --> 1:32:02.160 James Ingra and all these guys on, they still didn't 1:32:02.280 --> 1:32:03.679 you know, promoted the right way. 1:32:04.360 --> 1:32:11.320 Was it hard adjusting in an environment more conducive to 1:32:11.479 --> 1:32:17.880 like New Jack swing than say, the kind of musicianship 1:32:17.920 --> 1:32:18.960 that you were used to? 1:32:19.800 --> 1:32:19.880 Like? 1:32:20.120 --> 1:32:24.479 Was it? What does it mean to be faced with 1:32:24.520 --> 1:32:27.000 a pivot? You know instead of a band, you might 1:32:27.040 --> 1:32:28.439 have to have two dancers with you. 1:32:29.720 --> 1:32:33.320 That was fun I did. I did in fact, actually 1:32:34.320 --> 1:32:37.040 that Teddy, Yeah, that Teddy Teddy actually did a song 1:32:37.920 --> 1:32:39.000 you know, eight days for me. 1:32:39.080 --> 1:32:40.559 So I had those dancers. 1:32:40.600 --> 1:32:43.960 But it was again, it wasn't it was music, man, 1:32:44.280 --> 1:32:46.720 It wasn't. This is not rocket science here. You know, 1:32:46.800 --> 1:32:50.880 it's like, what do you feel? You know? I'm still 1:32:50.960 --> 1:32:53.880 that same way today, you know, like I write every 1:32:54.000 --> 1:32:58.479 day and it's always something that you know, I'm sure 1:32:58.520 --> 1:33:01.000 when I finished with you, you know, I'm going to 1:33:01.080 --> 1:33:05.120 write something about this experience. So wow, I said, let's 1:33:05.160 --> 1:33:05.599 go at it. 1:33:05.920 --> 1:33:11.120 Okay, Hey, in the history of you being a professional singer, 1:33:11.680 --> 1:33:17.120 as anyone ever yelled fire and rein to you from 1:33:17.160 --> 1:33:22.360 the audience, you did steal my question, I was. 1:33:22.400 --> 1:33:26.040 I was honestly wondering about that today about look at 1:33:26.040 --> 1:33:27.400 his victory pose. That's great. 1:33:29.040 --> 1:33:29.120 No. 1:33:29.240 --> 1:33:32.519 I used to sort of study the publishing stuff in 1:33:32.720 --> 1:33:35.840 credits and in like sort of books, and I was 1:33:35.880 --> 1:33:39.599 always wondering if if the publishing ever got crossed between 1:33:39.640 --> 1:33:41.640 you guys, you know, and anything. 1:33:42.360 --> 1:33:44.519 Not the money At that time, he was making big 1:33:44.560 --> 1:33:47.639 money and we weren't. But but I used to when 1:33:47.640 --> 1:33:52.320 I first went solo, the publishers got things mixed up. 1:33:52.640 --> 1:33:55.120 In fact, at the at the Rock and Roll Hall 1:33:55.160 --> 1:33:58.479 of Fame, he came over to my room and I'm 1:33:58.479 --> 1:34:01.000 in the dressing room, and he came over to meet me. 1:34:01.040 --> 1:34:02.280 He said, I always wanted to beat you. 1:34:02.360 --> 1:34:05.320 I said, really, and no, that was the first time 1:34:05.360 --> 1:34:05.840 y'all met. 1:34:06.120 --> 1:34:08.519 That's the first time we met, right. 1:34:08.560 --> 1:34:10.120 I wish I could have been there for that. 1:34:10.400 --> 1:34:12.920 Yeah, man, And he came over and we hugged each 1:34:12.920 --> 1:34:17.000 other and we share some you know, conversation, and I 1:34:17.040 --> 1:34:18.960 told him that story. I said, I was getting these 1:34:19.320 --> 1:34:21.800 like kind of country songs, man, and you know, my 1:34:22.640 --> 1:34:24.640 manager said, wait a minute, I think this supposed to 1:34:24.680 --> 1:34:26.479 be for the other James Taylor. So we had a 1:34:26.560 --> 1:34:28.760 laugh and I said, I want to do something with you, 1:34:28.800 --> 1:34:31.320 and he said, let's do that. You know, so that 1:34:31.400 --> 1:34:32.920 might happen in the near future. 1:34:34.120 --> 1:34:37.800 Voices I approve of that. Do you know Marvin ever 1:34:37.920 --> 1:34:42.680 heard You're not to him on? Take my heart if 1:34:42.680 --> 1:34:43.080 you want it. 1:34:44.120 --> 1:34:46.479 I don't know, man, but I've been tell you because 1:34:46.520 --> 1:34:48.680 you know I'm a big Marvin fan as well. But 1:34:48.800 --> 1:34:51.320 we were doing the that's when I was still with Cool. 1:34:51.760 --> 1:34:55.200 We did the rain I think the Rainbow Room or 1:34:55.240 --> 1:35:00.360 the Rainbow Theater in London, and we're on stage because 1:35:00.479 --> 1:35:02.280 I don't know what song we were singing, and I 1:35:02.320 --> 1:35:05.839 looked to my left over in the corner and Marvin 1:35:05.920 --> 1:35:11.080 is standing in the way man, almost like yeah, he 1:35:11.120 --> 1:35:13.280 was living there, right, So of course I had to 1:35:13.320 --> 1:35:17.879 bring him on. And just walking on stage place with berserk, 1:35:18.479 --> 1:35:21.400 and you know, he walked off and we were taking 1:35:21.400 --> 1:35:23.680 a picture to the other look, he's looking over at 1:35:23.760 --> 1:35:26.479 me like this, you know, looking down on me. He said, 1:35:26.560 --> 1:35:26.800 j T. 1:35:27.000 --> 1:35:28.439 You know I can slam dunk you. 1:35:28.439 --> 1:35:31.240 You know that, right, I said, bro, I can play 1:35:31.240 --> 1:35:34.439 ball too, but let's do this. We never got to play, 1:35:35.000 --> 1:35:38.160 but he was. He was amazing. Man. I would have 1:35:38.760 --> 1:35:40.960 loved to just take the ball to him a little 1:35:40.960 --> 1:35:42.280 bit because he was a tall he was kind of 1:35:42.320 --> 1:35:46.000 a tall guy. It would have been tough. But yeah, 1:35:46.040 --> 1:35:47.720 but no, I don't know if he ever did. 1:35:48.600 --> 1:35:50.320 It's one of my favorite as yours. 1:35:50.800 --> 1:35:54.960 Like I was actually talking to George because George wrote 1:35:54.960 --> 1:35:59.360 the song, and he was like I said, like Marvin, 1:36:00.240 --> 1:36:04.000 huh right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1:36:03.360 --> 1:36:06.240 Exactly exactly. You know, there was a time period in 1:36:06.320 --> 1:36:10.599 which videos were not necessary but could be an option 1:36:10.680 --> 1:36:13.160 to help you sell a little more if you were 1:36:13.160 --> 1:36:14.960 trying to get your stuff played on like Top of 1:36:15.000 --> 1:36:17.360 the Pops or you know, if you couldn't get to 1:36:17.479 --> 1:36:20.679 Europe in time. What was the video process like, because 1:36:21.240 --> 1:36:27.840 even that video for Misled, which I'll never understand, like 1:36:27.920 --> 1:36:29.840 are you just showing up? And like okay, it's a 1:36:30.000 --> 1:36:33.800 chase scene with an Indiana Jones and a bunch of 1:36:33.840 --> 1:36:37.760 white peoples dancing around me, like yeah, right, well, you. 1:36:37.800 --> 1:36:40.439 Know, you know, of course I've always been into film, 1:36:41.400 --> 1:36:44.080 you know, and like even right now, you know my 1:36:44.200 --> 1:36:47.120 future project that I'm working on now, I'll tell you 1:36:47.200 --> 1:36:49.360 about that in a minute. But okay, because I was 1:36:49.400 --> 1:36:51.639 in the film earlier in my life, I was able 1:36:51.680 --> 1:36:55.280 to when videos came along, I could process everything that's 1:36:55.320 --> 1:36:58.200 hot because most of our songs was like a storyboard. 1:36:58.880 --> 1:37:01.439 And you mentioned Misled. It was about you know, it 1:37:01.479 --> 1:37:04.679 was basically Coalice's life story. Part of his life story, 1:37:04.680 --> 1:37:08.719 and my my input, and it was the metaphor of 1:37:08.479 --> 1:37:13.400 the White Dancer was like she was like the cocaine 1:37:14.240 --> 1:37:18.640 that people were taking, you know, misleading, looking beautiful and 1:37:18.680 --> 1:37:22.519 everything and taking you down that rabbit hole, you know. 1:37:23.040 --> 1:37:27.599 And my nephew who played me as a young kid, Yeah, 1:37:27.640 --> 1:37:30.800 that was my nephew. Yeah, you know. And so to 1:37:31.160 --> 1:37:34.880 bring that part in, that was theatrical and the special effects. 1:37:35.120 --> 1:37:37.840 So and then the one thing that happened on that 1:37:37.960 --> 1:37:39.920 video was that we said how are we going to 1:37:40.000 --> 1:37:42.320 get the band in? And I wrote most of that 1:37:42.560 --> 1:37:44.680 concept and I said, well, you guys are going to 1:37:44.760 --> 1:37:48.519 be you know, incognito as well. And it's a dream state. 1:37:49.600 --> 1:37:52.200 So that's why you know that happened, and when we 1:37:52.280 --> 1:37:53.800 came at the end and they were like j T, 1:37:54.400 --> 1:37:56.080 we got to go, man, we got a gig to do. 1:37:56.840 --> 1:37:59.040 They were in the dream and that's when they turned around. 1:37:59.080 --> 1:38:03.479 So my Michael definitely influenced that as far as the 1:38:03.520 --> 1:38:08.200 video because remember MTV wasn't playing us, and Michael turned 1:38:08.200 --> 1:38:11.240 that around. So that's when the whole video thing for 1:38:11.280 --> 1:38:14.599 black artists started kicking in. And we knew that Michael 1:38:14.640 --> 1:38:17.000 had raised the bar, So we had to raise the 1:38:17.000 --> 1:38:20.680 bar because if you remember, on most of the charts, 1:38:21.240 --> 1:38:23.760 if we knew Michael was coming, we had to get 1:38:23.800 --> 1:38:28.200 our position first, you know, because came. You know, we're 1:38:28.200 --> 1:38:31.000 gonna knock you out a number one, but being there 1:38:31.320 --> 1:38:34.080 in the top five or top ten, that means in 1:38:34.160 --> 1:38:37.120 the stores your music was right there along inside his 1:38:37.840 --> 1:38:40.439 and it would help your sales. Yeah, all of that 1:38:40.880 --> 1:38:45.240 the video world actually helped me with the project I'm 1:38:45.280 --> 1:38:47.240 doing now and what my future is gonna be? 1:38:47.880 --> 1:38:50.679 Got it? At the time, do you guys get invited 1:38:50.760 --> 1:38:55.439 to do band aid? Like, do you have any ankling 1:38:55.479 --> 1:38:57.519 of the clue what you guys walked into? 1:38:58.240 --> 1:39:00.000 No, because we were on tour again. 1:39:00.120 --> 1:39:01.479 I just had a Night off in London. 1:39:03.680 --> 1:39:06.360 We were actually just I don't know if we I 1:39:06.360 --> 1:39:08.479 think we did having that off. But the thing that 1:39:08.479 --> 1:39:12.320 that bothered me was that they had mentioned, i think 1:39:12.400 --> 1:39:14.519 on the news or something that you know, it was 1:39:14.600 --> 1:39:17.719 all of these big stars there and when we got 1:39:17.720 --> 1:39:22.240 there there was no cameras and I remember telling DT, 1:39:22.400 --> 1:39:25.040 I said, you know it with the press man and 1:39:25.160 --> 1:39:27.439 all people telling about the press and we walked in. 1:39:28.680 --> 1:39:31.280 No one said, you know, okay, j T. You're going 1:39:31.320 --> 1:39:33.040 to be doing this and it's going to be doing that. 1:39:33.200 --> 1:39:34.840 We kind of just walked in the studio and there 1:39:34.920 --> 1:39:38.320 was everybody was just sitting around the room and and 1:39:38.360 --> 1:39:41.880 Phil Collins and and Geldolf and they were behind the 1:39:41.920 --> 1:39:44.880 board and they just kind of waved and you know, 1:39:45.720 --> 1:39:50.240 and later on I thought somebody mentioned that they wanted 1:39:50.280 --> 1:39:54.599 me to do the part that watch a Night thank God, 1:39:55.160 --> 1:39:57.080 and I didn't. And I'm glad they didn't ask me, 1:39:57.320 --> 1:40:00.439 because I would have never done that bear line, your 1:40:00.520 --> 1:40:04.439 Botto's line. Thank God it's you, it's them instead of you. 1:40:04.560 --> 1:40:08.120 I said, well, no, I would have never sang that anyway, 1:40:09.439 --> 1:40:11.479 because that's just a little too much for me, you know. 1:40:11.600 --> 1:40:14.479 I wouldn't thank God, it's you. You know, that's not 1:40:14.560 --> 1:40:17.120 my vibe, you know what I mean. But yeah, it 1:40:17.479 --> 1:40:20.200 was awesome, man, But we still didn't know how it 1:40:20.240 --> 1:40:23.439 was going to come out. I just enjoyed, you know, 1:40:23.520 --> 1:40:26.800 meet and you know, sting and filled, but it was 1:40:26.840 --> 1:40:29.280 it was intense. It was like no time to really 1:40:29.600 --> 1:40:32.120 hang out and talk about it. And when they put 1:40:32.200 --> 1:40:35.120 us all on the stands together, it was just like, Okay, 1:40:35.120 --> 1:40:36.760 this is what we're going to sing. We learned the 1:40:36.760 --> 1:40:40.760 song and we went through the process. 1:40:40.800 --> 1:40:43.559 For you, what was the best, like when you think 1:40:43.600 --> 1:40:46.920 of like the good times or whatever, like places you played, 1:40:46.960 --> 1:40:50.960 or even people you met or people that you never 1:40:51.080 --> 1:40:54.680 thought you meet, what's a career highlight for you of 1:40:54.760 --> 1:40:57.160 something like like, wow, I can't believe this happened. 1:40:58.280 --> 1:41:04.280 There's many, but I think going to Africa for the 1:41:04.320 --> 1:41:11.080 first time was monumental because I remember when we were 1:41:12.400 --> 1:41:15.040 at House of Music once and this is doing a 1:41:15.080 --> 1:41:17.040 part time and. 1:41:18.560 --> 1:41:22.719 This agent came to the studio and asked us to play. 1:41:23.840 --> 1:41:26.639 And that's when everybody was refusing to place some city. 1:41:26.680 --> 1:41:30.799 It was part of our protests and I remember looking 1:41:30.840 --> 1:41:35.960 at this guy almost tearing up that how could he 1:41:36.040 --> 1:41:39.280 have the nerve to come here and ask us to 1:41:39.400 --> 1:41:44.200 perform there, knowing the atrocities that were going on, right 1:41:44.640 --> 1:41:49.160 And I remember we got a silver record I think 1:41:49.240 --> 1:41:53.559 from South Africa, and when we got it, I said, 1:41:53.560 --> 1:41:56.799 I refuse to hang this up in my house until 1:41:57.479 --> 1:42:02.439 Mandela is freed, and I put it in the closet, 1:42:02.840 --> 1:42:06.320 and when he was freed, I took it out and 1:42:06.600 --> 1:42:10.800 celebrated that. But I think going to Liberia and then 1:42:10.960 --> 1:42:16.479 learning about the slave quarters and where our people were 1:42:16.479 --> 1:42:19.559 brought from the shores and things like that, the Ivory 1:42:19.600 --> 1:42:24.040 Coast up and down, you know, And I always felt 1:42:24.120 --> 1:42:26.439 like I didn't want to take money out of there 1:42:27.439 --> 1:42:29.960 like like I because it wasn't really built up as 1:42:30.040 --> 1:42:32.840 much like Ghana right like it is now, you know. 1:42:32.920 --> 1:42:36.680 And I just didn't understand what I understood. But I 1:42:36.720 --> 1:42:41.479 didn't feel good about doing a concert and taking money 1:42:42.280 --> 1:42:45.479 from a place that we should have just left it there, 1:42:46.120 --> 1:42:50.439 you know. But I think Africa was it's still to 1:42:50.479 --> 1:42:53.200 this day, the feeling I get that touches my heart 1:42:53.320 --> 1:42:58.840 most one. 1:42:58.960 --> 1:43:01.320 Congratulations on getting in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. 1:43:02.320 --> 1:43:02.880 Yes, thank you. 1:43:03.200 --> 1:43:06.680 Were you surprised or were you actively hoping for this? 1:43:07.760 --> 1:43:10.320 Well? You know, I tell the story. I said, it's 1:43:10.439 --> 1:43:13.160 when I think back to being at thirteen, you never 1:43:13.320 --> 1:43:16.680 think about it. You never think about any accolades, at 1:43:16.760 --> 1:43:19.599 least I did. My whole thing was just a love 1:43:19.640 --> 1:43:23.439 for music. Man. And you know, when they told us 1:43:23.439 --> 1:43:25.839 about the rock, of course, I called all my family 1:43:26.200 --> 1:43:29.920 and I think they announced it on the American Idol 1:43:30.000 --> 1:43:32.320 or something like that, and we were all sitting around 1:43:32.680 --> 1:43:34.840 watching waiting for it to come on when they said bam, 1:43:34.920 --> 1:43:37.320 cool in the Gang. My phone jumping off the hook, 1:43:37.840 --> 1:43:39.880 people talking about how can I get there? I want 1:43:39.880 --> 1:43:42.040 to come. We had a lot of family there, but 1:43:42.640 --> 1:43:46.240 it was just a culmination of all of the years 1:43:46.680 --> 1:43:52.519 of the sweat, being away from my family, having my 1:43:52.560 --> 1:43:55.960 family there, enjoying some of it, coming into cooling the gang, 1:43:56.760 --> 1:44:00.880 and then leaving the group. And also, you know, I 1:44:00.960 --> 1:44:05.240 brought everything from Hackensack High School to you know, the 1:44:05.320 --> 1:44:09.240 bands I was in too, you know, Jersey City. Anybody 1:44:09.320 --> 1:44:12.360 that I met along the way were a part of it. 1:44:12.400 --> 1:44:17.960 And that's including you, your group, the Philly Sound, Motown Sound, 1:44:17.960 --> 1:44:21.040 you know anything. It was like I was. It was 1:44:21.080 --> 1:44:23.920 like I was bringing all of you with me, you know. 1:44:24.000 --> 1:44:26.160 And then of course you know, to find out that 1:44:26.200 --> 1:44:28.439 you were going to be with me. I'm like, oh man, 1:44:28.479 --> 1:44:31.000 this is too good to be true, you know. So 1:44:31.120 --> 1:44:33.160 you know when I walked up and met you, you know, 1:44:33.200 --> 1:44:36.200 I was like yo, right in the middle of playing Yo, man, 1:44:36.240 --> 1:44:38.080 what's up? And I got a good picture. I want 1:44:38.120 --> 1:44:39.519 to say to you about that too. 1:44:39.720 --> 1:44:42.160 But I was nervous, man, and like, you know, well 1:44:42.200 --> 1:44:43.000 you were nervous. 1:44:43.040 --> 1:44:44.360 Come on, man, you were smacking. 1:44:44.840 --> 1:44:48.320 No I mean, but just you the only legendary illuminaria 1:44:48.360 --> 1:44:52.080 of like my Life sound check track that I haven't 1:44:52.479 --> 1:44:53.240 met yet, you know. 1:44:53.200 --> 1:44:56.479 What I mean. So, yeah, it was awesome and you 1:44:56.520 --> 1:44:59.160 guys play man and it was And the thing about it, 1:44:59.160 --> 1:45:01.000 it was that you wouldn't be leave this that night. 1:45:02.040 --> 1:45:02.679 That was the week. 1:45:02.720 --> 1:45:06.439 That week I had some dental work done right, and 1:45:06.479 --> 1:45:08.519 I had this I don't know if you ever heard 1:45:08.560 --> 1:45:14.360 of TMJ, but it's when your jaw locks. So that 1:45:14.439 --> 1:45:18.840 whole night and the performance, I couldn't open my mouth 1:45:18.880 --> 1:45:23.440 with this much what so I'm singing and in rehearsal, 1:45:23.840 --> 1:45:26.519 I was actually when I was walking around the stage, 1:45:26.600 --> 1:45:30.080 was trying to find vowel sounds of how I was 1:45:30.120 --> 1:45:33.040 going to say certain things. And I couldn't hit like 1:45:33.080 --> 1:45:36.000 the high notes. Yahoo, if you listen back at it, 1:45:36.160 --> 1:45:39.680 I couldn't. I couldn't do it. Oh wow, old night. 1:45:39.800 --> 1:45:41.959 So I was in a little bit of an agony 1:45:42.200 --> 1:45:46.439 while I was enjoying myself. That's a story nobody could tell, right, 1:45:47.640 --> 1:45:49.760 I didn't know, man, nobody knew it. 1:45:49.800 --> 1:45:52.439 You know, we wouldn't have been the Wi wow. 1:45:52.760 --> 1:45:55.679 But the night was awesome, bro, And it's like it's 1:45:55.680 --> 1:45:57.960 something that I will you know, treasure forever. 1:45:58.600 --> 1:46:04.000 Before that night, had you had any contact with cool, Like, 1:46:04.120 --> 1:46:06.880 was that the first time you guys spoke since the 1:46:06.920 --> 1:46:09.479 reunion or No? 1:46:09.520 --> 1:46:12.000 No, the first time was a few years ago when 1:46:12.040 --> 1:46:15.920 we were inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame, got it. 1:46:16.439 --> 1:46:19.240 And that was the first time I had seen them 1:46:20.200 --> 1:46:26.680 and since the early nineties. I still went in there like, 1:46:27.120 --> 1:46:29.599 you know, just proud of what we had accomplished over 1:46:29.640 --> 1:46:32.240 the years. And you know, so they all came to 1:46:32.280 --> 1:46:35.720 me and we spoke and they were cordial and and 1:46:35.760 --> 1:46:38.519 in fact, Calice came to me and pulled me to 1:46:38.560 --> 1:46:40.800 the side and said, man, why don't we get back 1:46:40.800 --> 1:46:43.840 together and do this again? And I was taken back 1:46:43.920 --> 1:46:48.599 because we did celebration that night, got our award, and 1:46:50.040 --> 1:46:53.400 you know it, we went our separates and again going 1:46:53.439 --> 1:46:54.960 back to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. That 1:46:55.040 --> 1:46:57.479 was the other thing that was kind of bittersweet that, 1:46:58.000 --> 1:47:02.680 you know, George and all the DT Clifford and they 1:47:02.680 --> 1:47:05.160 weren't there. And it was like, I'm sitting with their 1:47:05.200 --> 1:47:09.840 wives and their children, you know, there We're talking and 1:47:09.880 --> 1:47:12.080 things like this, and you know, I was just a 1:47:12.080 --> 1:47:14.719 little empty. There was a space there. I was empty, 1:47:14.760 --> 1:47:18.800 you know. But I hope if they're looking down they 1:47:19.000 --> 1:47:22.080 appreciated what cool and I did along with you know 1:47:22.120 --> 1:47:23.240 you and the roots as well. 1:47:23.600 --> 1:47:25.120 What are you working on now? 1:47:25.360 --> 1:47:27.920 Well, you know the thing right now is I just 1:47:28.160 --> 1:47:31.960 kind of you know, I was right before COVID hit. 1:47:32.280 --> 1:47:34.840 You know, I realized I was doing out, going out, 1:47:34.920 --> 1:47:37.519 doing all these one nighters. You know, money was great 1:47:37.560 --> 1:47:40.840 and everything, but every day you leave, you know, you 1:47:40.960 --> 1:47:43.560 come back home, you lose three days, three or four days. 1:47:43.880 --> 1:47:46.040 And when I was working on I started working on 1:47:46.080 --> 1:47:50.760 this project with my son who's a filmmaker and a director, 1:47:51.320 --> 1:47:55.160 and we weren't getting anywhere, and so I said, listen, 1:47:55.200 --> 1:47:58.280 I got to stop touring. And actually COVID helped me 1:47:58.280 --> 1:48:01.320 because nobody was really working that much much anyway. So, 1:48:03.200 --> 1:48:05.240 like I've always done, I said, well, I want to 1:48:05.280 --> 1:48:09.479 do something that hasn't been done before or something different 1:48:09.600 --> 1:48:14.960 and include different genres social media, film, music, and make 1:48:15.000 --> 1:48:19.240 a combination of all of those things and involve people 1:48:19.280 --> 1:48:24.320 like yourself, you know, your group and different artists from 1:48:24.360 --> 1:48:28.440 different genres around and include like like the visual effects 1:48:28.439 --> 1:48:31.479 of things, and you know, to vote all the time 1:48:31.520 --> 1:48:35.200 to new kind of music and development, you know, and 1:48:35.320 --> 1:48:37.880 you know it's enhanced my knowledge, you know, or directing 1:48:37.960 --> 1:48:41.120 and writing in that genre without letting everything out of 1:48:41.160 --> 1:48:43.840 the bag. It's like, you know, when you're trying to 1:48:43.880 --> 1:48:48.880 do something that hasn't been done, it takes a lot 1:48:48.920 --> 1:48:51.840 of attention. You know, you have to go through every 1:48:51.880 --> 1:48:55.360 little piece. Is not just one creative idea. The idea 1:48:55.520 --> 1:49:00.320 grew and now we're at a point where we're at 1:49:00.520 --> 1:49:04.840 I would say the script for example, you know, And 1:49:06.200 --> 1:49:08.719 all I can say to you is, I will promise 1:49:08.800 --> 1:49:11.920 to lead you on as we've developed this because it's 1:49:11.960 --> 1:49:14.599 something that hopefully will you will be. 1:49:14.560 --> 1:49:14.960 A part of. 1:49:15.600 --> 1:49:18.400 I'll just ask you straight out, you know. Uh, And 1:49:18.600 --> 1:49:22.240 I think that it's something that is needed today, because 1:49:22.800 --> 1:49:27.000 when I listened to some of the music that's out here, 1:49:27.680 --> 1:49:31.680 it seems like things are either plateaued or just have 1:49:31.960 --> 1:49:34.559 staged a little stagnant. 1:49:34.400 --> 1:49:35.320 Little vibrational. 1:49:35.680 --> 1:49:38.599 Yeah, you know, so we need we need a little something, 1:49:38.840 --> 1:49:40.960 and you know, U usually over the years, you know, 1:49:41.000 --> 1:49:43.759 we've had a collective of people doing so many different 1:49:43.800 --> 1:49:46.920 styles that we could pull from anywhere. You know, Now 1:49:46.960 --> 1:49:49.800 it just seems like there's some some things that are 1:49:49.880 --> 1:49:52.400 just not you know, when I listened to it, I'm 1:49:52.400 --> 1:49:56.559 not being fed as much. So right, you know, six 1:49:56.720 --> 1:50:01.000 years of like revising this this project. You know, I'm 1:50:01.080 --> 1:50:02.800 kind of looking at some things that I wrote down, 1:50:03.840 --> 1:50:07.680 combining like the meters of music and films. But it's like, 1:50:09.160 --> 1:50:12.000 how can I explain this? It will be something that 1:50:12.080 --> 1:50:17.840 will be future, but something with grassroots of the arts, Okay, 1:50:17.920 --> 1:50:21.080 something I think that everyone will be able to relate to. 1:50:21.840 --> 1:50:26.000 All I gotta say is, man, you are in the 1:50:26.040 --> 1:50:27.599 highest sense of the term of class act. 1:50:27.640 --> 1:50:27.800 Man. 1:50:28.000 --> 1:50:31.000 You just you know, I'm so glad you got your flowers. 1:50:31.000 --> 1:50:34.880 I'm so glad you got recognition. And that's often hard, 1:50:35.000 --> 1:50:40.800 especially for a lot of our brothers and sisters who 1:50:41.600 --> 1:50:46.519 are pioneers, our leaders, and oftentimes their artwork is taken 1:50:46.520 --> 1:50:50.400 for granted and they're not given the proper respect you 1:50:50.479 --> 1:50:52.160 and you are that person, man. 1:50:53.040 --> 1:50:56.320 I appreciate that, you know, and those artists that you 1:50:56.479 --> 1:51:02.559 mentioned you deserve to be heard, they deserve to to 1:51:02.640 --> 1:51:04.960 have that like that, that renaissance, you know. 1:51:05.640 --> 1:51:05.840 Uh. 1:51:05.880 --> 1:51:08.240 And and I really think that this project, you know, 1:51:08.960 --> 1:51:11.360 I'm going to do that and listen before we be 1:51:11.479 --> 1:51:13.280 in this, man, There's so much more to talk about, 1:51:13.320 --> 1:51:15.960 but I just first want to, you know, congratulate you 1:51:16.040 --> 1:51:16.920 on a summer soul. 1:51:17.439 --> 1:51:17.760 Thank you. 1:51:17.800 --> 1:51:21.519 By Hey, bro, were's that Oscar? Man? I'm looking for 1:51:21.560 --> 1:51:23.960 that goal. Look behind you over there and put that 1:51:24.040 --> 1:51:25.120 statue up behind you. 1:51:26.160 --> 1:51:28.519 This is my office, man, I keep my Oscar at home. 1:51:28.600 --> 1:51:31.760 But yeah, well this is gonna be another one, bro. 1:51:32.040 --> 1:51:35.240 I mean it was. It was really so well put together, man. 1:51:35.280 --> 1:51:37.400 And like the way you when you brought in the 1:51:37.439 --> 1:51:39.800 people from Halem, you know, telling their stories, the way 1:51:39.880 --> 1:51:42.800 you interplayed that with the music, it was like it 1:51:42.840 --> 1:51:45.479 was like a story book. It was magical. Man. You 1:51:45.479 --> 1:51:49.679 you have a special gift with that. And as I said, 1:51:49.800 --> 1:51:51.719 you know, with the special that you're doing, I think 1:51:52.160 --> 1:51:54.320 it's It's great to hear because it kind of leads 1:51:54.360 --> 1:51:56.120 into what we're what we're doing. 1:51:55.920 --> 1:51:59.000 Now, I want to say some sort of an announcement 1:51:59.200 --> 1:52:02.639 of my own. I've done the math JT. And since 1:52:02.640 --> 1:52:05.680 you've technically technically technically appeared at the most of bar 1:52:05.720 --> 1:52:10.160 Mitzvah's in the history of bar Mitzvah, I am announcing 1:52:10.240 --> 1:52:14.120 that you have been declared an honorary Jew and you 1:52:14.120 --> 1:52:16.240 can consider yourself bar Mitzvah. 1:52:16.360 --> 1:52:18.160 All right, do I have to have to learn my 1:52:18.640 --> 1:52:19.519 speeks and everything. 1:52:20.240 --> 1:52:22.480 You're part of the Hebrew persuasion. 1:52:23.720 --> 1:52:24.120 There you go. 1:52:24.560 --> 1:52:26.920 Thank you very much, brother for doing this podcast. And 1:52:27.520 --> 1:52:30.759 you know on behalf of the family. Answer to Steve 1:52:31.280 --> 1:52:35.439 this Quest Love brother James, J T. Taylor one and only. 1:52:35.760 --> 1:52:38.639 Thank you so much, love you, Thank you guys, appreciate it. 1:52:39.360 --> 1:52:40.040 Thank you so much. 1:52:40.120 --> 1:52:40.360 J T. 1:52:40.520 --> 1:52:40.720 That was. 1:52:42.680 --> 1:52:44.920 This is Sugar Steve. Thank you for listening to Quest 1:52:44.920 --> 1:52:48.160 Love Supreme. This podcast is hosted by a Mere quest 1:52:48.160 --> 1:52:51.719 Love Thompson, Lijah Saint Clair Sugar, Steve Mandel, and unpaid 1:52:51.720 --> 1:52:55.719 Bill Sherman. The executive producers are a Mere Quest Love Thompson, 1:52:55.760 --> 1:53:00.519 Sean g and Brian Calhoun. Produced by Britney, Benjamin Payne 1:53:00.520 --> 1:53:01.679 and Liiah Saint Clair. 1:53:02.760 --> 1:53:06.960 Edited by Alex Conroy. Produced for iHeart by Noel Brown. 1:53:10.320 --> 1:53:14.080 What's Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. 1:53:16.720 --> 1:53:21.480 For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 1:53:21.600 --> 1:53:23.480 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.