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Speaker 1: Quest Loft Show is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: What's Up. It's June and that means it's Black Music Month,

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Speaker 2: and every year on Questlove Supreme and now The Quest

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Speaker 2: Loft Show, we honor it by bringing you an episode

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Speaker 2: every day that celebrates black music, its history, and its impact.

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Speaker 2: My team and I have selected episodes from our archive

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Speaker 2: that we feel are specially relevant to the celebration, offering history,

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Speaker 2: insight a little fun along the way. So be on

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Speaker 2: the lookout for four brand new episodes throughout June, each

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Speaker 2: connected to the past, president future of black music. We're

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Speaker 2: going to highlight trailblazers, innovators, ultraconduits, and revolutionaries whose word

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Speaker 2: continues to shape the world around us. Happy June, Happy

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Speaker 2: Black Music Month. We've been waiting, ladies and jump and

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Speaker 2: welcome to another episode, a special episode of Copts Love Supreme.

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Speaker 2: We've been waiting for this. We've been waiting for this.

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Speaker 2: You know what, Steve, I'm actually more excited for the

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Speaker 2: twelve year old version of you right now.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I am super excited to talk to this man

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Speaker 3: and thank him for everybody who's never had a bar

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Speaker 3: Metz for before. This is going to be amazing.

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Speaker 2: I guess this is my Christmas gift to you, man, this,

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Speaker 2: this is my Shaka Khan gift to you. I got

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Speaker 2: you the King of all bar Mitzvahs exactly.

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Speaker 4: I never heard that title, but I'll accept that one.

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Speaker 2: Oh so talk about it. That's great, all right. I

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Speaker 2: just treat this like a movie. Even before I introduce

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Speaker 2: what this show is, I just have to ask our guests,

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Speaker 2: who I've not introduced yet, do you know the true

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Speaker 2: story of how the song Celebration got written? Has Ronald

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Speaker 2: Bill will tell you the story of how it inspired.

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Speaker 4: Him, not totally, but I have my own version of

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Speaker 4: it when I'm through the experience. Okay, well maybe I

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Speaker 4: need to hear this.

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Speaker 2: I'm under the impression based on Okay, so I used

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Speaker 2: to Oh God, ladies and gentlemen, this quest love a

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Speaker 2: quest love Supreme. Of course, I'm here with Sugar, Steven

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Speaker 2: and our guest today. I don't even want to waste

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Speaker 2: a long, arduous introduction because you know my introductions will

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Speaker 2: be nineteen minutes. I'm sitting here with the God, the

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Speaker 2: King of all bar Mismas, the God the most velvet voice, Yo,

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Speaker 2: Supreme Jesus Christ, like my nat King, Cole the Voice

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Speaker 2: James J. T. Taylor, formerly of Cool in the Game.

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Speaker 4: Hi brother, thank you.

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Speaker 1: All right, So here's the deal.

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Speaker 2: And I believe I might have told this on Robert's

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Speaker 2: story as well, but at the time when I invited

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Speaker 2: Ronald Brother Beyon Collie Beyon. Back when I was teaching

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Speaker 2: at NYU with Harry Weider, we once had brother Ronald Bell, saxophonist,

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Speaker 2: primary songwriter Cool in the Gang, and he told us

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Speaker 2: the story of how he wrote Celebrations. So basically riding

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Speaker 2: high off the third wave of what the band is

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Speaker 2: about the experience. Of course, if you're fans of the band,

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Speaker 2: you know they came to it with a lot of jazz, soul,

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Speaker 2: more on jazz, a lot of tribe called quest samples

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Speaker 2: came from that wave. And then in seventy four a

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Speaker 2: joke sort of mocking soul Mikosa winds up being like

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Speaker 2: one of the most pivotal funk songs of the seventies.

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Speaker 2: So they had a seventies wave, and then doing a

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Speaker 2: disco horse open sesame on the Saturn Night Fever soundtrack

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Speaker 2: that was kind of their third wave.

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Speaker 1: And now they're about to start the.

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Speaker 2: Hit making wave and of course, fresh off the success

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Speaker 2: of their Ladies' Night single and the subsequent album of

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Speaker 2: that same name, they're on tour and they happen to

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Speaker 2: be in the Bay Area, and I believe that they

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Speaker 2: arrived in town the day before on a Friday, to

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Speaker 2: do some local record stores and signings, because now you know,

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Speaker 2: the heat is back on.

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Speaker 1: The heats back, and.

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Speaker 2: Brother Ronald tells me that the promoter who's bringing you

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Speaker 2: guys to the particular venue, playhouse in the Bay Area,

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Speaker 2: has another show happening that night and would he like

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Speaker 2: to attend?

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Speaker 1: Would you guys like to attend?

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Speaker 2: And that is when the Prince and Rick James show

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Speaker 2: come to this venue. And what winds up happening is

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Speaker 2: Prince goes on first, and at this moment, Prince has

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Speaker 2: the number one song in the country on the Soul charts.

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Speaker 2: Without want to be a lover, right, and Ronald says

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Speaker 2: that he really wasn't all that familiar with Prince, like

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Speaker 2: he heard about him, but he really didn't pay attention and

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Speaker 2: he definitely wasn't familiar with the song. However, he was

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Speaker 2: highly impressed at how within two seconds everybody just screamed

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Speaker 2: and lost their minds. It wasn't just like you know,

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Speaker 2: like everyone.

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Speaker 4: Right, it could have been.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: So he's more impressed with that.

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Speaker 2: So that sort of brings out the antennas in his brain.

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Speaker 2: It's like, YO, pay attention to the song for that.

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Speaker 2: So he's just pay attention to the song and Prince

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Speaker 2: finishes is set. It's like a twenty minute change over

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Speaker 2: for Rick James. And Ronald asked the promoter, YO, run

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Speaker 2: me backstays real quick to one of them dress rooms.

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Speaker 2: There as a piano in it, and there was a

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Speaker 2: spare room. And Ronald sits at the table and he

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Speaker 2: starts notating what he thought he just heard Prince do,

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Speaker 2: which is I want to be a lover. He writes

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Speaker 2: those chorus down and he stares at this chorus and

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Speaker 2: as most songwriters do. Another way to get to sort

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Speaker 2: of squeeze juice from a used fruit is you figure

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Speaker 2: out different ways to flip a song and rewrite it again.

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Speaker 1: People do it all the.

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Speaker 5: Time, like all the time.

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Speaker 2: Fleetwood Mac famously on their Real It still says Spinner's

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Speaker 2: Idea number two. Their favorite song was I'll be Around,

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Speaker 2: and thus they made dreams on rumors.

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Speaker 1: About I'll be around.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, he's looking at the notes and suddenly he's like, yo,

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Speaker 2: let me play this backwards now, Dan backwards is then.

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Speaker 1: So he notates.

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Speaker 2: He notates the music and he's like, all right, I

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Speaker 2: got the idea. I'm gonna go rock to watch Rick's

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Speaker 2: James I believe when you guys got finished the tour.

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Speaker 2: It's like three weeks later and he's gonna either demo

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Speaker 2: or submit the ideas to you guys.

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Speaker 1: But he's like, wait, I gotta make this a complete song.

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Speaker 2: Only got a groove. I want to do a complete song.

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Speaker 2: And at a bridge to it, and he was running.

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Speaker 2: He didn't have any nothing that was coming to mind.

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Speaker 2: He looks on the table on top of the piano

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Speaker 2: and there is a cash box magazine and he opens

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Speaker 2: up the charts. He goes right to the pop charts

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Speaker 2: and looks for the highest charting black song. So this

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Speaker 2: particular issue, Rock with You by Michael Jackson was number five.

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Speaker 2: He knew Rock with You well and when he wrote

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Speaker 2: the bridge word, dude, it's time to.

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Speaker 4: Come together together.

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Speaker 2: It's the same chords as girl, close your eyes, let.

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Speaker 1: This rhythm get into you.

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Speaker 2: Every one around, come on, come on that that to

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Speaker 2: me was one of the most genius stories I've ever

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Speaker 2: heard of a song being constructed.

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Speaker 4: Well, he was. He was always like that. He was.

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Speaker 4: I called him to feel this leader, you know, because

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Speaker 4: he would do things like that and sometimes we would

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Speaker 4: just hear it.

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Speaker 5: We said, where did that come from?

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Speaker 4: And we just you know, to ourselves, and sometimes he

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Speaker 4: would you know, regurgitate why he did it or why

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Speaker 4: it came. But my understanding was that when it was there,

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Speaker 4: you know, because when people bring all everybody would bring

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Speaker 4: things in all the time, ideas everything, you know, little

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Speaker 4: lyrics here, are guitar player, that guitar part here, And

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Speaker 4: it was more of a celebration of the resurrection, like

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Speaker 4: Ladies Night came out, big record and nobody knew what

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Speaker 4: was cool in the gang because they heard me, you know.

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Speaker 4: But we said, well, how are we going to follow

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Speaker 4: that up? So if you listen to Ladies Night, come on,

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Speaker 4: let's all celebrate. It was already preordained that we were

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Speaker 4: going to do celebration. Now, I don't know if that

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Speaker 4: influenced him, but I know when I knew it, we're

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Speaker 4: going to be celebration. I thought back, I said, you

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Speaker 4: know that spiritual thing starts hitting you and say like

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Speaker 4: we were like foreseeing this, Yeah, we said, come on, celebrate,

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Speaker 4: so now let's sell all celebrate. And then with the

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Speaker 4: group going through that down period from like seventy five

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Speaker 4: I think to seventy eight or something like that. Yes,

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Speaker 4: thirty nine, there was a drought and they told me

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Speaker 4: the story that you know, the record lay was going

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Speaker 4: to drop him in all that stuff, and I said, okay, well,

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Speaker 4: what we're gonna do? You know that came later, That

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Speaker 4: question came later, but yeah, so there was like a

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Speaker 4: like I said, resurrection as well, and we had gotten

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Speaker 4: over that first Ladies and Night album and that was big,

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Speaker 4: and so how we're gonna do it again? And people

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Speaker 4: were actually doubting us. You know, it was more like,

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Speaker 4: you know, I want the old old cool to gang.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I want, I want to talk about it. I

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Speaker 2: want I want to talk about that. Wait, I got

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Speaker 2: to start to begin it. So I just wanted to

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Speaker 2: ask if you knew about that story. But that was

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Speaker 2: my that was my cold opening.

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Speaker 4: That was that was the first I've heard of it

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Speaker 4: that in depth anyway. But I think again, it doesn't

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Speaker 4: surprise me.

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Speaker 5: Because you know, he was like that man.

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Speaker 4: He was. He was a special kind of guy from

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Speaker 4: a many different angles, many different angles, but you know,

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Speaker 4: a sweetheart, and I would say he was more. He

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Speaker 4: was a collector. He was a jazz guy. But you know,

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Speaker 4: anything was possible, you know, if if it was there.

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Speaker 4: And I think when he even heard when he heard

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Speaker 4: me sing, you know, he was.

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Speaker 3: Just like, uh, there goes that celebration.

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Speaker 2: Okay, wait, we just we had a technical difficulty.

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Speaker 5: We just rewinded.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but Steve had punch line in the century. He

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Speaker 2: was like, well, there goes this celebration.

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Speaker 4: You know, we got to write this stuff down. This

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Speaker 4: is the song, you know. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: It was either that or la oh no oh no.

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Speaker 2: All right. So wait, let me ask you, because we're

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Speaker 2: going to get to all these things. Uh, but let

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Speaker 2: me ask you. What was your very first musical memory.

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Speaker 4: My first musical memory was I had to be like six,

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Speaker 4: because I remember we had just gotten my first television.

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Speaker 4: I was maybe five or six, and I remember being

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Speaker 4: in the kitchen and looking through to the living room

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Speaker 4: and my grandfather bought the television and when it turned

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Speaker 4: it on, there was a group there. Still I don't

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Speaker 4: know who they were, but I just knew that they

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Speaker 4: were dressed like like a five man group, and they

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Speaker 4: were just looking beautiful, and I did. I didn't even

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Speaker 4: go to the television. I just stood back and watched them.

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Speaker 4: It just kind of missed me, rather like looking like,

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Speaker 4: you know, the puppy, you know, with the head, you know.

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Speaker 4: And my sister I had eight sisters, by the way,

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Speaker 4: so oh no, that's why I understand women. A house

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Speaker 4: for of women, you know, so I know how to move,

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Speaker 4: you know. But she entered into a contest on the

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Speaker 4: Cousin Bruce Show and this has taking it back and

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Speaker 4: she actually won, and she won that big smiley face

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Speaker 4: thing or Caussey Cousin Brucy, and she sang a song

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Speaker 4: what wasn't Linda Jones, but it was called I Know,

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Speaker 4: I Know you don't love Me No More, No More,

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Speaker 4: something like that, and there was a trumpet solo and

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Speaker 4: I would like and it was just this is all

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Speaker 4: radio wasn't on television, and I would and that radio

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Speaker 4: was always on top of the refrigerator and I would

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Speaker 4: stand and mimic the trumpet solo. That was like my part.

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Speaker 4: And that was like the first thing that drew me

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Speaker 4: into music right there.

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Speaker 2: Wow, so you're one of nine?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, yes, ten.

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Speaker 2: Actually where do you fall in line?

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Speaker 4: I say, I was always say that I was looked

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Speaker 4: up to and looked down on, right in the middle,

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Speaker 4: because my you know, my sister, you know, we we

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Speaker 4: had we had a lot of fund. You know, it's

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Speaker 4: a house full of women going on. And my brother,

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Speaker 4: he was younger, and I had an older brother who

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Speaker 4: was you know, my mother's child, but he'd you know,

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Speaker 4: we were all one family and when we got together,

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Speaker 4: it was a party.

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Speaker 2: So are any of your other siblings as gifted? Is

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Speaker 2: this a musical family?

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Speaker 4: I will say yeah, because everybody's saying in the church choir.

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Speaker 4: You know, it was almost like mandatory, you know. My

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Speaker 4: mom could say, and we were born in the rural

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Speaker 4: south South Carolina.

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Speaker 5: What city in Lawrence? L A U are in US?

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Speaker 4: And for mother, I think she realized that I have

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Speaker 4: to get my children out of here to get some

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Speaker 4: type of opportunity going, you know, and this is just

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Speaker 4: my thoughts.

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Speaker 5: You know, we really talked about that.

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Speaker 4: But when we came to Jersey, we actually went to

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Speaker 4: Brooklyn first when we maybe both found our way over

250
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Speaker 4: to uh In to Hackensack and at the church there

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Speaker 4: at the New Hope Church, my sister, you know, we

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Speaker 4: were all in the choir. As I said, but my

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Speaker 4: sister Frieda. She actually did a solo once, just her piano,

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Speaker 4: and I remember that being such a had a great

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Speaker 4: effect that someone could be standing there with just a

256
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Speaker 4: piano singing. And she didn't dress in the robe. She

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Speaker 4: actually had a red dress on and with legs show

258
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Speaker 4: in the church, you know. But it was it was

259
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Speaker 4: it was classy, you know what I mean. And I

260
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Speaker 4: remember sitting on the side just watching it and just saying,

261
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Speaker 4: just letting it all come in, you know. And but everybody,

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Speaker 4: you know, it's pretty much as far as the professional side,

263
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Speaker 4: they didn't go into that. But but that that church

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Speaker 4: part was something that was a big influence on all

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Speaker 4: of us.

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Speaker 2: Where's your household's attitudes to secular music at the time, Like,

267
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Speaker 2: were you allowed to listen to motown or music of

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Speaker 2: a day?

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Speaker 5: Oh? Yeah, absolutely?

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Speaker 4: My mother you know, I think you know, being listen,

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Speaker 4: my father passed away.

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Speaker 5: When I was nine. Okay, he was like only in

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Speaker 5: his forties.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So here's my mother with all these kids, you know,

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Speaker 4: and her rules were law.

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Speaker 5: You know, you came home from school.

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Speaker 4: You did this, you did that, you got up in

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Speaker 4: the morning, you did this, you did that. And her

279
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Speaker 4: thing was to make sure that we were rounded up,

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Speaker 4: that she knew where we were and what we were

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Speaker 4: pretty much doing. So she had a transistor radio on

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Speaker 4: the refrigerator again which no one could touch.

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Speaker 5: And usually it was either.

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Speaker 4: Some gospel going on on there, and sometimes she would

285
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Speaker 4: flip to like some blues or something like that. But

286
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Speaker 4: my uncle who yeah, he used to come by and

287
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Speaker 4: he would drop off jazz albums. He would first he

288
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Speaker 4: would bring jazz albums for me to listen to, and

289
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Speaker 4: he would leave him there and I mean he went

290
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Speaker 4: from you know, Stil Austin and then also sometimes in

291
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Speaker 4: the mix he would have like a Mom's Maybley album.

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Speaker 4: So as long as you know, we were in the

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Speaker 4: house doing our thing, she was pretty much happy. So

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Speaker 4: you know, it's like we're playing all the motown. She's

295
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Speaker 4: in the live in the kitchen doing her thing, and

296
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Speaker 4: we were in hip party of dancing. And back then

297
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Speaker 4: it was the long rc R C A you know stereo,

298
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Speaker 4: you know, the best sound in the world, right, Okay,

299
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Speaker 4: you know you're putting the records on and then the

300
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,440
Speaker 4: quarter and all that stuff. But as long as we

301
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,120
Speaker 4: were like happy and we were around her, she knew

302
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Speaker 4: we were we were having a good time. She let

303
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,600
Speaker 4: us stretch out. Man, it was and I and that

304
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,200
Speaker 4: that also helped speed up my love for music and

305
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,840
Speaker 4: and and going into different genres as well.

306
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Speaker 2: I'll say that, uh, you're I'm not even gonna say

307
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Speaker 2: former employers. Your former group's story has been getting out

308
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:28,120
Speaker 2: in the first three years and they kind of taken

309
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:32,480
Speaker 2: advantage of a social media to tell these like two

310
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:36,720
Speaker 2: minute Instagram animated vignettes of like what their life was

311
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:41,679
Speaker 2: like as teenagers before they formed a band, and the

312
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Speaker 2: kind of war stories that Cool was talking about. And George,

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Speaker 2: you know that were you growing up in that part

314
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Speaker 2: of Jersey because like to hear Cool tell it, like,

315
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Speaker 2: I'm like, yo, I'm shocked to still alive, Like the

316
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Speaker 2: amount of the gang stories he told me. And you know,

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Speaker 2: every day fighting for like a quarterbread, Like literally did

318
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Speaker 2: you get a quarter to get a loaf.

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Speaker 1: Of bread to eat that day?

320
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Speaker 4: Like?

321
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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Was was that? Like what was Jersey? Like what were

323
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Speaker 2: your memories of Jersey?

324
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Speaker 4: My memories are fun. I had fond members because we

325
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,840
Speaker 4: didn't have that vibe. You know, we had a boy

326
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Speaker 4: fo you know, park scraps, everybody fighting and stuff like that,

327
00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:27,520
Speaker 4: but it was it was more like very sparse. You

328
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Speaker 4: know in our area. Everybody knew everybody. We didn't have

329
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Speaker 4: a real racial problem, you know with the white students

330
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Speaker 4: that went to school with us. And when we played

331
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Speaker 4: we had it was within like about two to four

332
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Speaker 4: block area, so you knew everybody. And when it was

333
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,840
Speaker 4: some fight, we never had like gangs fighting to get

334
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,159
Speaker 4: territory and somebody stealing your money. If somebody stole your money,

335
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,119
Speaker 4: you know, there was a fight going on, but it

336
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,400
Speaker 4: didn't happen too often because we had this place called

337
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:03,480
Speaker 4: Second Street Park, and it was like our babysitter, our parents' babysitter.

338
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Speaker 4: You know, they knew where you were, and we weren't

339
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:11,520
Speaker 4: allowed to like just wander off down downtown or go

340
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,879
Speaker 4: to this place. You know, you had to ask and

341
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,359
Speaker 4: to go home to ask to be somewhere. So again,

342
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 4: we didn't have that type of friction. No, not nothing

343
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 4: close to Jersey City.

344
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Speaker 2: Do you remember first time that you saw a concert

345
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Speaker 2: or performance like who were your north Stars?

346
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Speaker 1: As far as like wow, that's what I want to do.

347
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Speaker 2: You're a rare breed of a singer that came out

348
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,600
Speaker 2: during the time you came out, because you were kind

349
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,560
Speaker 2: of like even to me, you were like an older

350
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:49,400
Speaker 2: brother figure. You weren't my pops like that Teddy Pendergrass,

351
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,680
Speaker 2: you know, like that to me sounded like my pops

352
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:58,080
Speaker 2: and my uncles, whereas like you were kind of like

353
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Speaker 2: my cooler older brother, like too old for us to

354
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,920
Speaker 2: like live in a bunk bed, you know.

355
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Speaker 4: But like I like that varsity jacket level.

356
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Speaker 2: So the thing is is that I know, you know,

357
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Speaker 2: by the time the Jackson five come out, you're like eighteen,

358
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Speaker 2: So I don't know if it's hitting you the same

359
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,440
Speaker 2: way that it's hitting like my seven year old sister,

360
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 2: like where the Jackson vibe was everyone's north star. So

361
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Speaker 2: for you, like yeah, because you have a Johnny Mathews voice,

362
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 2: I asked like, were you more akin to like the

363
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,679
Speaker 2: styles of Frankie Lyman and the teenagers?

364
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Speaker 4: Like yeah, that's good thing you brought that up. Well,

365
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,240
Speaker 4: the thing is with my I remember, you know, like

366
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 4: I said, seeing in the church Choie and everything, but

367
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 4: always had a band also, and I would like wherever

368
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 4: there was music happening, in town. I found myself there,

369
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 4: whether it was older guys or you know, guys my age.

370
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Speaker 4: And when I had my group through, and we were

371
00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,679
Speaker 4: like we call the Electoral five, you know, like the

372
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,439
Speaker 4: Jackson five, you know before that, you know, when they

373
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,120
Speaker 4: were really like young, you know, he had apple jack

374
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,159
Speaker 4: hats and the nice shiny suits and everything, and we

375
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 4: were called it Electro five, you know. And so that

376
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,840
Speaker 4: that sped everything up. But there was a band in

377
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 4: town called the Phialaa Soul and like the best of soul.

378
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 4: And I know it sounds a little fishy, but you know,

379
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 4: I got to see. I had to get back and

380
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 4: see at least throw one at him, you know. But

381
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,160
Speaker 4: but these guys were so good, I'm telling you. They

382
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 4: played Sly as close at things to Sly as Sly himself.

383
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,439
Speaker 4: And we used to actually follow them around. And the

384
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 4: thing that was odd was that the Catholic churches, the

385
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,439
Speaker 4: diaces would would would allow us to have parties, and

386
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,359
Speaker 4: they would have this like little drop offs that they

387
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 4: would go to Lodie Hacking Sack over to this town,

388
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 4: and they had a following and I used to follow them,

389
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 4: and years later I end up being the lead singer

390
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 4: of that same group, So Slyde became the one that

391
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 4: I loved the most, and not just because it was him,

392
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 4: but it's the eclectic part of their band, having clarinet's, trumpets, women,

393
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,720
Speaker 4: you know, a drummer, you know, all these different parts

394
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 4: that at a B three organ. So that was everything

395
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 4: I pretty much grew up with. And he was like

396
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 4: and still is to this.

397
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,200
Speaker 5: Day, like my guy. You know wow, Okay, yeah, that's

398
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 5: what's up.

399
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 1: What was the first album you ever purchased?

400
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 5: And I knew you're gonna dig with that one.

401
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 4: That's a See, the album were in the house that

402
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 4: never bought because we didn't have money, so it was

403
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 4: things usually like a Shirley Caesar album or something like that.

404
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 4: But I never bought gospel albums my mother. That was

405
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 4: like kind of her role. But if I think back

406
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 4: to it, it had to be something with motown or

407
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 4: James Brown, probably a James Brown record.

408
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, where are you living now?

409
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 3: Just out of curiosity in North Jersey?

410
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, still home?

411
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 2: Besides church, were there any other functions that you were

412
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 2: singing at high schools?

413
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 4: Or I would sing anywhere any style in the park

414
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 4: at it for nothing. You know, you wouldn't get paid,

415
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,959
Speaker 4: but I I never I don't have to see. I

416
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 4: didn't say to myself this is what I wanted to do.

417
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 4: I was in the midst of it from the moment

418
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 4: I heard music. If you if you understand what I mean,

419
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 4: it's like I didn't have a time of Okay, this

420
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 4: is what I'm gonna do for life. It was just

421
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 4: a part of me, you know. And it's like a

422
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 4: lot of things are like that for me. You know,

423
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 4: I don't have to really put on airs to be

424
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 4: something or to accept someone doing something, and it's like

425
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 4: when I see you and your band, it's like that's

426
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 4: supposed to happen, and whatever you're doing, I'm just gonna

427
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 4: immerse myself in it and not be so judgmental, even

428
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,439
Speaker 4: if I don't, you know, particularly like everything. It's just

429
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 4: I think that the life of music is like my

430
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 4: life blood. And that's why I don't have a specific moment.

431
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 4: But when you say Jesus moment, it's like I remember,

432
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 4: like my mother used to we got too old to

433
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 4: get that whip, and you know, she would like make

434
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 4: us sit on the steps or something like that. And

435
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 4: one day, you know, I don't know what I did,

436
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 4: but she had. She sat me on the back steps

437
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 4: in our back porch, and I was just sitting there

438
00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 4: and I was always like a very like outside the

439
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 4: Bible thing, you know, like things didn't make sense to me.

440
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 4: Is why does this happened?

441
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, but I meant that metaphorically.

442
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 4: I didn't mean, man, yeah, I know what you meant,

443
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 4: but I'm trying to get to something. So one day

444
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 4: I'm sitting there and I actually felt like I saw

445
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 4: the tree growing. And this is when I was very,

446
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 4: very young, so I've always had that feeling. So there

447
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 4: wasn't a moment of that Jesus moment of music. I'm

448
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 4: going to do this in my life. It was just

449
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,719
Speaker 4: a part of the maturation, was all of it. So

450
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 4: when it did happen, got it. I was already in

451
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 4: the midst of it, and it never overwhelmed me at

452
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 4: that time.

453
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 5: If you understand what I mean, yeah, yeah, I got it.

454
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 2: So I'll ask you what was your knowledge of the

455
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 2: moment they became cool in the Gang? I know they

456
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 2: were various other groups, but were you wear them from

457
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 2: there first self titled record? Those?

458
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah first?

459
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 2: So what was your opinion of like what did you

460
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 2: think were they just like are they from Jersey or no?

461
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 4: No, I thought they were awesome because we used to,

462
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 4: you know, carry the boomboxes have Ben and a friend

463
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 4: of mine, Curtis, he would always have his boombox and

464
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 4: we would listen to Cooling the Gang stuff walking to school.

465
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 4: And sometime I go to his house and I remember,

466
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 4: I forget what Albert was. I think was the ice

467
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 4: Block Cooler Gang. It was like a block the message

468
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 4: yet the message yet Yeah, And so I got into

469
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 4: what they were talking about because we were growing up

470
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 4: in the civil rights so those things they were talking

471
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 4: about in a musical way. So that's pretty clever how

472
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 4: they got the message across. You know, we're not even

473
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 4: as blatant as like a girl Scott did, you know.

474
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 4: But it was something that I could relate to musically

475
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 4: as well as instrumentally, and something you could dance to

476
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 4: at the same time. So that was always a magnet.

477
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 4: And if you look at all the groups back then,

478
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 4: from James Brown, you know, I'm black and I'm proud

479
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 4: anything that anybody was doing Marvin. It was the social

480
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 4: consciousness while we were growing up that implemented music that

481
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 4: showed instrumentation, and all these great guys playing this stuff.

482
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 4: And then, like I said, with my uncle dropping jazz

483
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 4: music off, I realized that they were telling the same

484
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,679
Speaker 4: story growing up. So it was reaching and pulling me

485
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 4: in all of these different directions. But I thought that

486
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 4: Coolning were great, and ironically when I mentioned the Flair

487
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 4: of Soul, we actually opened up for them once at

488
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 4: the Newark College I think it's Caine College and Newark

489
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 4: and I tried to get backstage to meet them. This

490
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,959
Speaker 4: is years before I even I became a member, and

491
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 4: some security guy wouldn't let me come back to meet them,

492
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,439
Speaker 4: but I wanted to talk to them about, you know,

493
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 4: what they were doing because I liked it very much.

494
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 2: You know, Oh, okay, that's such a cool story.

495
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's all one man, it all, it all. It's

496
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 4: all related in some way.

497
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 5: You know.

498
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 3: That's really interesting that you were a fan and tried

499
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 3: to meet that ends up in the band.

500
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 4: Right, yeah, and ended up It's crazy.

501
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 2: How did you specifically get their attention? What's the story

502
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 2: process that leads to you guys meeting to audition for

503
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 2: the band?

504
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 4: There was a there was a part on the House

505
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 4: of Music and Studios in the West Orange and I

506
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 4: did a session with Jeff Dixon.

507
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 5: Wait what Jeff Dixon?

508
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 4: Yes, really, and I went I got a call that

509
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 4: step and said, listen, man, this is this guy doing

510
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 4: a he's doing trying to put this group together. And

511
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 4: his name was Jeff Dixon. He wants you to come down.

512
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 4: I told him about you and b to the session

513
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 4: and I did a There was a section of the

514
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 4: song that I did and when I finished my part,

515
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 4: you know, I went out and when it was done,

516
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 4: he said, come back in and he said, he said,

517
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 4: listen to what happened to the song when your part comes,

518
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 4: and he played it through and he.

519
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 5: Said, you hear that?

520
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 4: That's it right there. He said, I got to get

521
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 4: you with somebody, you know. And I was like, I

522
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,239
Speaker 4: was just doing what he instructed me to do. So

523
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 4: when I got the call to come to audition, I

524
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 4: don't know if it was Stephan, whether it was Jeff

525
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 4: Dition that that told cool himber about me, but I

526
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 4: know when when I got there, Irene Conrad I mentioned,

527
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 4: he said, yeah, well cooling him there down here, and

528
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 4: I went in and I met Chalice and and the

529
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 4: thing for me, I really wanted to beat DT and

530
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 4: Spike for some reason, I don't know, because these team

531
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 4: was always like the cooler dressed guy and he had

532
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 4: he played a great horn and Spike played the trumpet,

533
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 4: and I like making he had this this jazzy thing

534
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 4: about him that was cool when he had a widow's

535
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 4: peak kind of but he was just like a attractive

536
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 4: kind of aura that they had, you know, So.

537
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 2: You really knew these cats, Yeah, I know them from

538
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 2: just the music. In my mind, I was like, especially now,

539
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I'm gen X and there's some

540
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 2: gen Z's and jen Alphas after Z's Alphas that pretty

541
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 2: much like started with Millennials, but also with gen Z

542
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 2: and with Jens Alpha where it's just like a kind

543
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 2: of blatant uh purposeful indifference or it's weird, like I

544
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: wouldn't think. I thought, oh, he's probably a new guy

545
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: in a group and don't even know who Mickens is

546
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 2: or who, like right, like, oh, some old guys want

547
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 2: me to sing in their group and that No.

548
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 4: I never thought that. And if you you know question

549
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 4: back then, like the albums they had the liner notes,

550
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 4: they told you who guys were, so you would say there.

551
00:30:58,080 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 4: You didn't have a cell phone or anything, so you

552
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 4: would go through the album and you're listening to it

553
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 4: and you're finding out, oh this guy played that. Oh

554
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 4: I didn't know. And I didn't even know Dtu played

555
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 4: played the flute okay, And then I thought, oh I was.

556
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 5: Him playing that?

557
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 4: Oh okay. So when I met him, I was like, yo, man,

558
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 4: at that part you played on this.

559
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 5: You know, stuff like that.

560
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 4: So I was telling them little things that I appreciated

561
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 4: and and you know, funky George and listening to that

562
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 4: foot man, I said, wow, that's you know. So it

563
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 4: was I was like in heaven kind and so to speak, you.

564
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 2: Know all that I said about your your velvet voice

565
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 2: and and you being a modern nat king Cole. I

566
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 2: asked him in my class, like what was that process

567
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 2: like of finally striking gold? Because you know, he told

568
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 2: a story about everybody's disco dancing album like flopped And

569
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 2: they were in the store and doing an autograph session

570
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 2: and nobody was there and one girl was.

571
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: Like who they supposed to be?

572
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 5: Cool?

573
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 2: Gang ill Like he was like, man, we gotta get

574
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 2: a singer, we gotta get a singer. It's like desperation,

575
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 2: but he says that he knew within the first three

576
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 2: seconds you were the singer because you sounded like Nacking

577
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 2: Cole and I thought like that might have struck me

578
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,479
Speaker 2: odd because I would I would almost think like, Okay,

579
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: during that time period seventy nine, you gotta compete with

580
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 2: all these gruff, all these I mean, either they're kind

581
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 2: of over the top. I'm not saying primitive exotic, but

582
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 2: you know, unless you come super animated, ah you like

583
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 2: sfoot is animated, boots in Parliament they're animated, or you're

584
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 2: coming like you know, I mean the Mendingo, Yeah, like

585
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 2: or spiritual. You came very classy, but you came classy

586
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: in a way that wasn't like like I don't know

587
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 2: if Johnny Mathis would be like just walking down the hood,

588
00:32:58,960 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: you know.

589
00:32:59,160 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 4: What I mean.

590
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 2: But you almost had like a you had some street

591
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 2: confidence about you. But you also came off like you

592
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 2: might have done two years in ROTC T training or

593
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 2: in college.

594
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 4: I actually did.

595
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 2: As much as I love the Jackson's and they were

596
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 2: my heroes, I'd never looked at them once and thought

597
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 2: like you might be some college educated brothers, you know,

598
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 2: the Commodore's talk all the time about going into.

599
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 1: Skiingsitute but you know, but but they still wow.

600
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 2: So for me, you were like the first look into

601
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 2: what we might perceive.

602
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 1: Day at sold to be or like yeah yeah. So

603
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: for you, though, what was the audition process? Like?

604
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,239
Speaker 4: I didn't go in there like super nervous. And I

605
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 4: think again, as I said to you, the process was

606
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 4: the whole the whole thing included, meaning the music process

607
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 4: from being young all the way through. So this feeling

608
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 4: that I've had, the spiritual feeling I've had, was like, Okay,

609
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 4: I'm here, So this is what we're going to do.

610
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 4: And he said, let me hear you sing something. I said, well,

611
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 4: what do you want me to sing? He said anything,

612
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 4: just make something up and he started playing these changes

613
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,879
Speaker 4: and I sang, you know in my baritone voice, you know.

614
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 5: And he said, can you sing Hi?

615
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 4: And I said yeah, And I did some falsettle stuff,

616
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:37,280
Speaker 4: you know, And that's pretty much all I remember doing

617
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 4: for him.

618
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 2: Did you know what you were walking into?

619
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 4: No?

620
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 2: So no one officially said cool in the gangs looking for.

621
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 4: A lead singer said that the only thing I knew

622
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 4: was that they were looking for some background for me.

623
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 4: To sing background on a record, okay, and again you

624
00:34:55,719 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 4: know that's what I do, so okay, the songs that

625
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,919
Speaker 4: you know, and my thing, I'm like that, what's the song?

626
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 5: What are we going to do?

627
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 4: And thinking it's going to be more in the vain

628
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 4: of what they did before, you know, background, you know

629
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 4: Hollywood's well, you know, jungle boogie, all that.

630
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 5: Stuff, you know. And when I met with I.

631
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 4: Think it was Gabe Figarto the Light Records, he said,

632
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 4: you know, Jay, that era has passed. And when I

633
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 4: met Diodado, I was I don't think I was in

634
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 4: the meeting, but he asked Gabe, he said, he said, well,

635
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 4: who's who's gonna sing this? And he said him this JT.

636
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:37,760
Speaker 4: And he said, I want you to put the music

637
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 4: around him his voice, and I'm said okay, okay, And

638
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 4: you know, so I'm green at this time. You got

639
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 4: to understand, as far as studio work, I've never worked

640
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 4: in the studio in any capacity, Like what's going to come?

641
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 3: Was Diodado part of your audition? Like was he one

642
00:35:59,560 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 3: of the people?

643
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,359
Speaker 5: It was, No, No, he wasn't in there at all.

644
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 4: I met him a little later.

645
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 3: But he was already involved with them at that point.

646
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 4: At that point, I was so everything was great, you know.

647
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 4: I was like I knew I was school a gang.

648
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 4: I'm in the studio, a house of music. They liked me,

649
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 4: and when we started working, we instantly I wouldn't say instantly,

650
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 4: but we started working on music and we would go

651
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 4: to I think on thirtieth West thirties Street at Daily.

652
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 5: Planet, just playing songs there. You know.

653
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 4: So when did Donald got involved. This whole thing was

654
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 4: trying to mesh what they brought in, what everybody was writing.

655
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 4: And at the time, I wasn't bringing anything in as

656
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 4: far as like songwriting anything like that. I was more

657
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 4: like just feeding off of what's coming at me. Let me,

658
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 4: let me be here, let me listen to this guy,

659
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 4: let me be over here. And it was all interesting.

660
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 4: Nothing was boring. But the thing that was that was

661
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 4: funny though, was that they had three girls, three women

662
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:11,439
Speaker 4: I would say, singing background, and a couple of other yeah,

663
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 4: something sweet, and there was a couple other guys in there,

664
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 4: and I remember them looking at me sideways, you know,

665
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 4: and I'm up here saying, Okay, I have to get

666
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 4: my street vibe on, you know, because what's going on,

667
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 4: like what are these people looking at me like this? For?

668
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 5: So I'm thinking, do I have to make a phone.

669
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 4: Call, you know, get some of my guys that come

670
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 4: because this is all me thinking this is not them,

671
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 4: and because I'm saying, why these dagger's being thrown at

672
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 4: me when I'm here to help. You know, I didn't

673
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 4: ask to be here. I was encouraged and asked invited

674
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 4: to be here, and I thought that they were good,

675
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 4: and I said, well, we just keep them to myself.

676
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 4: This is all internal, you know, while music is going

677
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 4: on and people are walking around and I don't know

678
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 4: any of these people. I don't even know cooling them really,

679
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 4: so I'm trying to vibe I've been to make sure

680
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 4: I'm safe at the same time, and you know, I

681
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 4: wasn't a person who hung out in the city, so

682
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 4: that whole thing, you know, was new too.

683
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 5: So you know, there's a lot coming at me.

684
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 2: What were you doing to survive before you joined the

685
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 2: band and how long was it until you felt secure

686
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 2: enough that you were making your living as a member

687
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 2: of Cooling the Game.

688
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 4: Well, I went to HBCU as well in Norfolk State, Virginia.

689
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 4: I did two years there and it just wasn't my

690
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,399
Speaker 4: time to be in college. You know, I was all

691
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 4: about music and I didn't study music there, and I

692
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 4: just had a difficult time. So I dropped out because

693
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 4: music was my passion, you know. But when I came home,

694
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 4: you know, I was pretty much bumming around. I was

695
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 4: playing a lot of different bands and working on jobs.

696
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 4: Got me an apartment and had a raggedy car, that

697
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 4: type of thing, and you know, all of this happened,

698
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 4: and then I get the phone call from Cooling them.

699
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 4: But I think at seventy nine when we did the

700
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 4: Ladies and Night album and we started going to Paradise

701
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 4: Garage and all your different places for promotions and clubs.

702
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 2: Paradise Garage, yes, yes.

703
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 4: We did it. What was that? I knew that was

704
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 4: gonna raise the eyebrows, but we we actually had the

705
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 4: record company did a promotion there because you know, it

706
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 4: was the greatest sound system in the in the city,

707
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 4: right you know, with the with those the speakers, the

708
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 4: speakers right cranked up. You wouldn't even be able to

709
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 4: hear when you left there. But we did a thing

710
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 4: when they dropped Ladies' Night at Paradise Garage, you know,

711
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 4: which was appropriate and I remember we went up and

712
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,359
Speaker 4: the DJ called us a cooling the Gang record, you know,

713
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 4: and he said, cool is here, JT's here.

714
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know that, you know, and they dropped it.

715
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 2: Dude. I aspired to be his level of DJing.

716
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 4: Like that he would hear awesome, man, and he dropped

717
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 4: it and they hit the floor and everybody just looked

718
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 4: at each other was just like okay. And the record

719
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 4: company I think that they knew that that they had

720
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 4: it right there, because again, nobody expected it to sound

721
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 4: like that. You know, they looked they were looking for

722
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 4: all these horns and everything, and they were like, well,

723
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,280
Speaker 4: who's who's the who's the voice?

724
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 5: Where that voice comes from?

725
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 4: And you know, some people were like, nah, man, that

726
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 4: can't be cool. And then you know, and some time

727
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 4: I got I got a little flat back to that,

728
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 4: because well, I want I want to hear the old stuff,

729
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 4: the winds down and they were telling me, say listen, man,

730
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 4: we weren't eating on that stuff anymore, right, So yeah,

731
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 4: it was it was awesome. Did I answer the question? Yeah? Yeah,

732
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 4: because that that ladies out. That's when I realized I

733
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 4: could I start making a living, and you know, bout

734
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 4: some new clothes.

735
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 2: I figured as well, this is probably one of the

736
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 2: rarest chances I get to ask this question, so I'm

737
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 2: gonna try to ask very careful. Okay, Okay, So what

738
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:21,479
Speaker 2: could a working class musician make in nineteen seventy nine?

739
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm basically asking what is a living in

740
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 2: seventy nine? And I'm only asking this because, okay, like

741
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:36,720
Speaker 2: hip hop has distorted the expectations of what one should

742
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 2: expect from this industry because you know, it such a

743
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 2: hustler culture and you see everyone just like their money away.

744
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 2: And the thing is is that my manager kind of

745
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 2: told us from the gate, Look, I'm not doing this.

746
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 2: You guys aren't going to ball out of control, like

747
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 2: you're going to be able to slide mom some very

748
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 2: significant petty cash monthly. You'll be able to have a

749
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 2: half decent crib. And if I do my job right,

750
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 2: you know, you guys will at least be able to

751
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 2: make at least what a surgeon would make. At the time,

752
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 2: I did agree with that, and I subscribe to it.

753
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 2: Now I'm in a mind state where I want to

754
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 2: be a daredevil and dream my highest dream like, but

755
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 2: back then I was I was really small minded, with it.

756
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 2: But that said, you know, I think that's what at

757
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 2: least for the twenty years of doing the Roots, you

758
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 2: know before the Tonight show, that that enabled me to

759
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 2: not have distorted expectations and stay focused. You know, like

760
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 2: a lot of people after the third or fourth time,

761
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 2: like it took us four albums to really get to

762
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 2: a satisfactory place, but I think a lot of people

763
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 2: would start to give up or start sabotaging their cells

764
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 2: for And I'm asking this because there really wasn't the

765
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 2: standard of hip hop baller lifestyles expected for not at

766
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 2: all black singers. So what could you expect to make

767
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 2: a living on as e leite singer of been established

768
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 2: ben with albeit with a new lease on life that

769
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 2: they didn't have before like NB eighties.

770
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 4: Our situation, we didn't have that type of manager that

771
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 4: you had. We were not given any direction as far

772
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 4: as what you're going to make per se. My expectations

773
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 4: were simple, Matt. You know, how many records did we sell?

774
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:47,320
Speaker 5: Okay?

775
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 4: We got six of us record label gets this Okay,

776
00:43:53,320 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 4: so where's that was left over? And that wasn't happening now.

777
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 4: I couldn't rock the boat at that point because I

778
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 4: didn't really have the cachet, the input, the.

779
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:14,479
Speaker 5: In seniority to do.

780
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 4: That, so they were rationing out weekly income.

781
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 2: So you were getting paid like a rookie.

782
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 4: Like a rookie, right, but enough to live better than

783
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 4: I was living just about.

784
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 5: A little bit more above that.

785
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 4: And we were we were actually working so much that

786
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 4: it should have been maybe five to ten times more

787
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 4: than that, you know, because we were killing it. We were,

788
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,439
Speaker 4: and we were like working every day like like seem

789
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 4: like we never never stopped. So the money really wasn't

790
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 4: adding up with the hits and how much we were touring.

791
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,879
Speaker 4: And my family started asking that question. I, okay, well

792
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 4: get your apartment.

793
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 5: You got a decent car now.

794
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 4: And I when I wanted to slide my mother that

795
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 4: money you were talking about, I didn't have as much

796
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 4: as I thought to do that because at the time,

797
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 4: you don't really need a whole lot, you know, you

798
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 4: just kind of still in the midst of the musical part,

799
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 4: you know, and you just expect the money to be there.

800
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 4: You got around people around you. I'm with cooling them.

801
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,879
Speaker 4: They've been around here since the sixties. You know, all

802
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,240
Speaker 4: this is going to come around. And it was fine.

803
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 4: You know, when I started asking questions, that's when I

804
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 4: started finding out, you know, all of the the side deals,

805
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 4: all the things that were not there, and you know,

806
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 4: you just kind of find your way through speak when

807
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 4: you can't speak. And some of the people that we

808
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 4: were working with, you know, I was told, you know, well,

809
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 4: you can't talk to these people like that. I said, well,

810
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 4: if I'm being a man, no one's going to stop.

811
00:45:58,120 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 5: Me from talking and speaking up for my.

812
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 4: I'm not trying to be a bad guy, a sweet guy, nothing.

813
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna say that this shit ain't right, you know,

814
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 4: and this should be a little bit more balanced right here,

815
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 4: you know.

816
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:12,240
Speaker 5: So that was always my position.

817
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 2: Were the people that were running Delight Records the same

818
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 2: people by the time you got in the seventy nine position,

819
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 2: you're tenure in nineteen seventy nine. Because Ronald told me

820
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 2: that he was very careful with his words, but he's

821
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 2: basically insinuating to me that the whole Jungle Boogee story

822
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 2: was kind of at the insistence of some some friends

823
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 2: of ours.

824
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,399
Speaker 5: I would say that, yes, I heard that.

825
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,240
Speaker 2: Ah that kind of hitman level.

826
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 5: Okay, well, the same same people.

827
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 4: Wow, I see, do you understand I'm saying.

828
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: I totally understand what you're saying.

829
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 3: So glad for once, it's not my people who are

830
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 3: screwing up.

831
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 4: It was you. It was you.

832
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: Have you read Mars Leavey's Hitmann?

833
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 4: No not yet?

834
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 5: No, No, I haven't.

835
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 2: Now that's that's the book that exposes the you know,

836
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 2: that's what built Jerry's, the whole game, Jersey, Sylvie Robbinson,

837
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 2: all the people.

838
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 3: So I'm sorry, let me let me interject here. So

839
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 3: what about the publishing side of things though? Was that

840
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 3: also sort of shady because you were you were reading

841
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 3: some of these big hits.

842
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, because when I came into the group, and I

843
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 4: again when I started keeeping some of the stuff, it

844
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 4: was more like they had told me they had a

845
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 4: deal that was already set when I came in. So

846
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 4: I kind of had to buy into what was already established,

847
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 4: right I was, I wasn't a separate entity. I was

848
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 4: now a part of the of the entity. And with

849
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 4: that that means that I was I had to dop.

850
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 5: Some of the things that.

851
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 4: They had already had in order, and that really wasn't

852
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 4: anything I could do about it.

853
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 2: I do have a question about the repertoire when you

854
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 2: first get in the group. You know, as I said

855
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 2: at the top of the show, there's like almost five

856
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 2: to six levels of the band's history that one could

857
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 2: gravitate towards. If you're into a lot of early rap samples,

858
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 2: then you know the first three years, or you bag

859
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 2: for kind of like the first real true steps into

860
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 2: funk territory, not soul funk. There's there's an era of

861
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 2: like you know, seventy four is seventy nine, and then

862
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,439
Speaker 2: there's the disco period seventy seven to whatever, and then

863
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 2: here comes the hits seventy nine and so on. When

864
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:51,280
Speaker 2: you guys are putting your shows together, is there any

865
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 2: attention being paid to for the kind of pre wild

866
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 2: and peaceful catalog songs or songs like in t or

867
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 2: Ron Hamburger or like a lot of these or are

868
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 2: they still a part of the show, like the instrumental

869
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 2: part of the group.

870
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 5: Not really that that was once you came in.

871
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:17,320
Speaker 2: Then it was just.

872
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:21,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, well sing not totally, but but you know, Ron,

873
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 4: everybody was like, listen, man, they want to hear the

874
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 4: new songs. And I said, yeah, but we got the

875
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 4: we have the best of both worlds here guys, and

876
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 4: I used to preach. I said, man, we have to

877
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 4: play open Sesame tonight, and it depends on where we

878
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 4: were playing.

879
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, they wouldn't do that.

880
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 4: No, we did it once that a hit.

881
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 2: I'm talking about, like obscure and stuff.

882
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, once in a while. And I said that we

883
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,720
Speaker 4: would because you know, we always had great segues into songs.

884
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 4: You know, I picked up a lot of that from

885
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 4: from working with with police, and I said, we could

886
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 4: just sneak that in right here. We could sneak in

887
00:49:56,000 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 4: tea right here, or you know, Gookoo Boxer something like that. Okay, anyway,

888
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 4: nasty nasty, little funky track man. And then of course

889
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 4: open Cessity and some of Madness I'm sorry, yeah, some

890
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 4: of madness. They didn't have a problem with that. And

891
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:14,360
Speaker 4: Hollywood swinging.

892
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:15,439
Speaker 5: We would play that.

893
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 4: But as far as involving all the other stuff that

894
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 4: I was grew up on walking to school with, over time,

895
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 4: it just was moved out and each album that we did,

896
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 4: because we had like a almost a decade run of

897
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,879
Speaker 4: just top ten or top five hits that those are

898
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 4: the songs that they said people wanted to play and

899
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 4: the audience became more global, and the global audience didn't

900
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 4: know all of those songs that we that you and

901
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 4: I like, you know, they nts and all that they knew,

902
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 4: celebration and all this. And I remember when we did Joanna.

903
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 4: You know this, this is one of the most hurtful

904
00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 4: things that ever happened to me. And this no no

905
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 4: I was good, but.

906
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 2: The way they're done, yea.

907
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 4: And we were doing Joanna and we had this black

908
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 4: station and you know, we rolling everything and the an

909
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 4: R guy was trying to get the record played. I

910
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 4: don't think it was down with butter down there in Philly,

911
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:26,359
Speaker 4: but uh, it was something like a big station like that.

912
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 4: But anyway, they said that it wasn't black enough. Question.

913
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 4: I'm telling you.

914
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 5: I remember going back.

915
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 4: To my room and walking just pacing in my room

916
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 4: back and forth. I don't know how long I did it,

917
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 4: and almost like water coming on my eyes right and

918
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 4: I'm saying, I'm thinking about Frankie Lineman and all these

919
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 4: guys that paved the way to do all these things,

920
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 4: from from you know, jazz to Leontine Price and all

921
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 4: the I'm thinking about all of them that were you know,

922
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 4: couldn't even dressing dressing room had to come in the

923
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 4: back door. That all this is in my head. We

924
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 4: were going through civil rights and you know, we're trying

925
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 4: to find our way through and I'm doing this song,

926
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 4: this melodic song that is a part of me. And

927
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,320
Speaker 4: if it's part of me and me and the group,

928
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 4: then it's a part of black America, you know. So

929
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 4: how could somebody black tell me that it's not black enough?

930
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 4: I said, what is black enough mean? So that was

931
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 4: the first time I was hit with that, and I

932
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 4: remember calling my mother and I said, Mom, I said,

933
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 4: I said, they said it wasn't my singing, ain't black enough,

934
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 4: you know? And she said something she told me. She

935
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 4: eased my mind.

936
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:43,280
Speaker 5: She said, that's a good thing. That means that you're different.

937
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 4: They try to tell you that you're supposed to sound

938
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 4: like something they want you to sound like, but you

939
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 4: don't sound like that.

940
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 5: So that makes you unique. How you feeling?

941
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 4: And it sobered me up because it reminds me that

942
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 4: you've grown into this rainbow of styles from from the

943
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 4: little Transistor radio to the Philea Soul and then hearing

944
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 4: all my heroes like the Motown and then the Philly

945
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 4: International Sounds and all this and Stacks Records and all

946
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:25,359
Speaker 4: these different great people and you're amongst those people now,

947
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 4: So you don't have to try to be anybody but

948
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:31,759
Speaker 4: who you are, and that is a black man who

949
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 4: can do rock, funk, jazz, love, the love the classics,

950
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 4: Leontine Price, love Stravinski. You know what I mean, you can.

951
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,760
Speaker 4: It doesn't matter. It's not a colored thing with music.

952
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 4: So she cooled my little ass down real quick, said,

953
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 4: you know know who you are, your tailor, and people

954
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 4: have already given you the christen you. You know that

955
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 4: they accept what you are. So don't you start thinking

956
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 4: that you have to be somebody else just because the

957
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 4: radio station said this song ain't black enough. Maybe not

958
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:11,760
Speaker 4: for what they want to play, but globally the world

959
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 4: has already said we love this.

960
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 1: You also got the last laugh, bro.

961
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, yeah, it was. It was, but it

962
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 4: was a it was a traumatic time, bro, you know

963
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 4: what I mean.

964
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 2: This is the dumbest question I remember want to ask

965
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 2: in my professional career, but this is the only chance

966
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 2: I get to ask it. When you shot that Schlitchmont

967
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:44,879
Speaker 2: liquor bull commercial, come on, come on, there was never

968
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 2: a real bull on the premises right hell no, okay.

969
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 4: I would have been gone before he broke through that.

970
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 4: That that was a pretty good pre uh editing right pre.

971
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 2: Ai to this day when I go down a rabbit

972
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 2: hole on YouTube, I literally watched all forty five minutes

973
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 2: of every Slitchmon't Liquor bull commercial of every great running

974
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 2: and I always wanted to.

975
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 4: Know they used to edited it. I mean, I hope

976
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 4: I'll didn't ruin it for everybody, but yeah, we suggest

977
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,320
Speaker 4: you know, just looking running.

978
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:25,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got but that was that was that was a.

979
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 4: Hot commercial for a long time.

980
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,399
Speaker 2: It was it was man like it was a big

981
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:34,280
Speaker 2: deal because you never saw like your favorites on that level.

982
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 2: My dad especially liked it because sometimes they would juxtapose,

983
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 2: like you know, I think you guys did a version

984
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 2: and there was the platters.

985
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 5: As well that we did with the four Tops or

986
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 5: the four.

987
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 2: Tops yeah, like yeah, yeah, my dad, my dad comes

988
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 2: from you know, the fifties eras.

989
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 1: For him, it was like important to see the groups

990
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 1: he like represented.

991
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 5: Absolutely.

992
00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:55,959
Speaker 4: Yeah.

993
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 1: So when I first.

994
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 2: Got my record deal, like I would say that my

995
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:06,320
Speaker 2: first splurge, Like, okay, I made it. It's not much.

996
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 2: There was too much of a build up. But you know,

997
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:13,839
Speaker 2: for me, sneakers and my record.

998
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 4: Collection, that was it.

999
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was all I wanted to do in life.

1000
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 2: For you, what was your first like extravagant? I want

1001
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 2: cheese on my whopper like.

1002
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 4: That type of thing. Let me see, I think I

1003
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:34,439
Speaker 4: got my first Mercedes, okay, because before, as I said,

1004
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 4: I had my own apartment, you know, barely paying the bill,

1005
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 4: you know, at a raggedy car, so you know, the

1006
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 4: being showed a little little prestige. Man, you know, let

1007
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 4: me get a decent car because the good car that

1008
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 4: I had, I'm gonna tell you this, the car I

1009
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 4: had it had been hit from the side, oh, on

1010
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 4: the passenger side, right, So whenever I went to pick

1011
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 4: somebody up, I would drive and pomp on the driver's side.

1012
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna tell you something.

1013
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:09,360
Speaker 5: We had some pride.

1014
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 4: You know.

1015
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,359
Speaker 2: We had a group a group purchase. We got a

1016
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 2: land Cruiser that we all shared whoever needed a land Cruiser.

1017
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 2: I wasn't driving then, but Tarik would often dent that

1018
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 2: land Cruiser and get to the point where he would

1019
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 2: pick you know, his lady friends up only on the

1020
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 2: right side of the street so that she could never see.

1021
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 4: Right, exactly, That's exactly what I did.

1022
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 1: I see, I see.

1023
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 2: When you guys are on tour. Do you have to

1024
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 2: do Don Boyce's at libs on Jungle Boogie?

1025
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 5: I did? Yeah, I tried.

1026
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 2: What was your first show like with the group? Your

1027
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 2: your very first school in the Gang show?

1028
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 4: This is I think this was before we actually started

1029
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 4: working On Ladies' Night, I did a show with them.

1030
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 2: Oh you were singing with them even before?

1031
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, right before we started. Yeah, I all needed one

1032
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 4: show and then right after my audition, and I think

1033
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 4: I did an earth Wind and Five song on their show.

1034
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 4: I sang a ballad. I'm trying to remember which one

1035
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 4: it was.

1036
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 2: Do you have a wonderful a song for you?

1037
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 4: Yes, I don't know, maybe from the Head to the

1038
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 4: Sky album or something. Oh you went deep okay, yeah,

1039
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 4: something like that, you know, because he asked me because

1040
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:36,320
Speaker 4: he just wanted to show the people that, you know,

1041
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 4: just I'll see how I you know.

1042
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 5: Or something? Yeah, you know, and it was very smart.

1043
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, you're the lead singer. How do

1044
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 2: you know things like eye contact and communicating with the

1045
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 2: audience and you know, make the whole room feel like

1046
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 2: you know, the things that you probably have to lodge

1047
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 2: one hundred shows on your belt to truly know, like

1048
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 2: back in your hand, are you just being thrown in

1049
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 2: the river like singer swim she was up.

1050
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 4: But see again, as I said, I wasn't threatened by that,

1051
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 4: not not about being on the front of the stage,

1052
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 4: because I was always that guy, like if I had

1053
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 4: a band and then the band was called the Street

1054
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 4: Dancer or or or play. So I was always JT

1055
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 4: you know, and got it.

1056
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 5: And we were thirty.

1057
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: That wasn't your first show ever, like you.

1058
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 5: No, No, When I was thirteen, we did the Apollo.

1059
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 2: What was that?

1060
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 4: Like? That was scary.

1061
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 5: I think we're like thirteen.

1062
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 4: We were trying to, you know, make this something we

1063
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 4: were going to do, you know, like our little band.

1064
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 4: And in fact, we did the Intruders, Cowboys, the Girls,

1065
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 4: We did the rehearsal. And I never forget at the Apollo,

1066
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 4: I never I didn't think it was going to be

1067
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 4: this raggedy downstairs right where all the guests were. And

1068
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 4: there was the stairs that you had led us, you know,

1069
00:59:57,840 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 4: to go up to the stage, and there was this

1070
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 4: huge rat trap under the staircase. And I'm saying what

1071
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 4: the hell? And we're all sitting in and I'm saying, okay,

1072
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 4: so you just blanket out of your mind. So that night,

1073
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 4: our biggest thing was to make sure that Sandman didn't

1074
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 4: hook us off stage. That was our goal. If we

1075
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 4: could do that, we got it, and we actually came

1076
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 4: in third place. And this guy, uh, this older guy

1077
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 4: that's saying nat King Cole by the way and on

1078
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 4: the piano, he won that night. But we didn't get

1079
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 4: pulled off. We just we were in the line, you know,

1080
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 4: well first he was thinking hand clapped, you know, third

1081
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 4: you know, he said, okay, you guys, come off, and

1082
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 4: then he won. So we were just relieved that we

1083
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 4: didn't get pulled off by sand Man.

1084
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 1: Which member of pulling the gang was the most diplomatic

1085
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 1: and welcoming you into the fold because you're also a

1086
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 1: rookie kind of coming to an established house where you know,

1087
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 1: even there was a point where Alan Iverson had to

1088
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 1: carry the bags of six ers that he was better.

1089
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 4: Than yea, yeah, yeah, I didn't do any of that.

1090
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:13,600
Speaker 2: Which member was the most diplomatic in welcoming you into

1091
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 2: the fold?

1092
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 4: I would say it was calise and cool, because cool

1093
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 4: at the time. In fact, when we first started going

1094
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 4: through the House of Music, he actually came up from

1095
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 4: Jersey City and picked me up from my home and

1096
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 4: he drove me down and back home. So Cool was

1097
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 4: more like like that guy. And you know, we started

1098
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 4: hanging out as well. But he and I'll say it, Calise,

1099
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:43,240
Speaker 4: I went like to meet his mom, like Cool's Calise's

1100
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 4: mom and stuff like that, you know, And I just

1101
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 4: think they realized I was, like, you know, I was

1102
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 4: a down guy, like you know, like you could you know.

1103
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 4: I wasn't like a rough rider, you know, but I

1104
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 4: wasn't wasn't.

1105
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 5: No punk either, you know.

1106
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 4: I was just like and musically, you know, I could

1107
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 4: talk to them, and I actually learned so much from

1108
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 4: just sitting around listening because my mother said, just keep

1109
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 4: your ears open. You don't have to talk all the time.

1110
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 4: You know.

1111
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 2: Are you significantly younger than them or.

1112
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 5: Just a few years like three? I think George was

1113
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 5: three years at least was two.

1114
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:21,439
Speaker 4: I think Cool was three, so it wasn't too far.

1115
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 4: But a lot of people thought I was a lot

1116
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 4: younger than them.

1117
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:25,480
Speaker 2: I thought you were the baby brother.

1118
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, okay.

1119
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 2: Which remember would you have the most conflicts with.

1120
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 4: Well in the beginning, you know, none I was, I

1121
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 4: was hanging out with everybody. But I don't even know

1122
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 4: where it turned. But uh, for some reason, d ted started.

1123
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 4: We started rubbing a little bit, you know, And I

1124
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 4: didn't understand what happened because I was I remember him

1125
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 4: and Penwa bringing their daughter Michelle to my room to

1126
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 4: meet me.

1127
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 1: Actress Michelle actors.

1128
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:01,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, the late yeah, and.

1129
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 5: Ocle if ever matters, and so you.

1130
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 4: Know, it was all all good man were hanging out,

1131
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 4: party together, and somewhere along the line, you know, we

1132
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 4: just started friction. And I just didn't understand it because

1133
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 4: we were constantly, you know, banging out songs. You know,

1134
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 4: we were in the studio all the time, and if

1135
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:25,880
Speaker 4: we were in the studio, we were on the road,

1136
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 4: and most of those albums we were actually touring and

1137
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 4: would come home off the road and go right to

1138
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 4: the studio, and we, I think for almost a decade,

1139
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 4: we never had a vacation, you know, So I didn't

1140
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 4: understand what the success what happened. I tend to believe

1141
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 4: that more of the focus became on me than the group,

1142
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 4: and and I used to tell them, I said, listen, man,

1143
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 4: who's in the studio with you, who's on the stage

1144
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 4: with you. These people are going to say whatever they

1145
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 4: you know, they want, and any band, they usually gravitate

1146
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:04,680
Speaker 4: to the lead singer no matter, you know, if you

1147
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:08,280
Speaker 4: had the Stone, people know Mick Jacket or Genesis, they

1148
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 4: know you know Phil, you know. So it's not put

1149
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:13,880
Speaker 4: you down or anything like that. It's just the way

1150
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:17,200
Speaker 4: things are. Because I was never into that mindset or

1151
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 4: just here I said, man, listen, if it wasn't for

1152
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 4: this guy being in the room, this wouldn't have happened.

1153
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 5: And I never forget that.

1154
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 3: Were you singing lead vocals on every song on every

1155
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 3: album as soon as you started on.

1156
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:33,959
Speaker 4: Leadies, yes yeah, But then on it was all yeah,

1157
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 4: and in the shows and the shows yes well. And

1158
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 4: we didn't have like background singers either, so we had

1159
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 4: like horn players singing background and that was sometimes, you know,

1160
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:48,760
Speaker 4: a bit more stressful for me because I would have

1161
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:53,160
Speaker 4: to you know, i'm m singing, singing highs and lows,

1162
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 4: singing background dancing and entertaining, and it started wearing me

1163
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 4: out of little bit. You know.

1164
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:05,440
Speaker 2: Later on for me, this is a rare chance to

1165
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 2: find out, like what my life would have been, like,

1166
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:11,840
Speaker 2: you know, had I been born maybe twenty years earlier.

1167
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:13,960
Speaker 2: Like if me and my best friend in high school

1168
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:17,280
Speaker 2: still say we started a group in seventy nine instead

1169
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 2: of ninety three, then this is about as close as

1170
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,720
Speaker 2: I'm going to get to. Hmmm. I wonder what it

1171
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:25,320
Speaker 2: happened if the roots came out like fifteen years earlier.

1172
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, was it a strict environment when you

1173
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:30,360
Speaker 2: entered the group?

1174
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:30,600
Speaker 4: Like?

1175
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:33,080
Speaker 1: Was there rules it here too?

1176
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:37,160
Speaker 4: Nothing was said. The only thing when we were my

1177
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 4: first first show I did was till we stopped to

1178
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:41,360
Speaker 4: get stuff to eat, and they were trying to convince

1179
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:45,640
Speaker 4: me not to eat pork because they were only cool,

1180
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 4: uh and police from most of the people thought the

1181
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 4: whole band was, but it was only the two of them,

1182
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 4: and that actually, you know, I didn't mind that. Give

1183
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 4: up bacon then okay, it's food. So but as far

1184
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 4: as like musically they're like through osmosis so to speak,

1185
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:07,960
Speaker 4: it premeated you, you know, and my respect for what

1186
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 4: they did musically, I respected that greatly. So I didn't

1187
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:15,800
Speaker 4: really want to, you know, upset the cart, you know

1188
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 4: what I mean. I was kind of like fit in,

1189
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 4: and I think maybe Calice felt that I had that

1190
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:24,760
Speaker 4: type of spirit too, like them, because after a while

1191
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 4: it was almost like we had so much in common.

1192
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:32,240
Speaker 4: Like they moved their parents moved them from Youngstown for Hi,

1193
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:36,560
Speaker 4: you know, for a better life in Jersey, and my

1194
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:39,120
Speaker 4: mother moved us from South Carolina for a better life

1195
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:41,400
Speaker 4: in Jersey. So there was things that we didn't even

1196
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:45,000
Speaker 4: have to discuss. That was just part of our DNA,

1197
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:49,080
Speaker 4: you know. That made it easy when.

1198
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 2: You're tracking your vocals, what's the particular environment that you're

1199
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 2: used to, Like, is it like a whole crowd of

1200
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:58,640
Speaker 2: them there watching or is it just like do you

1201
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:03,080
Speaker 2: prefer to be alone and just with Calice or just

1202
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 2: someone one person or a mirror.

1203
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 4: And in the beginning, I was so green that I

1204
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 4: had to I wasn't accustomed to singing with headphones.

1205
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:15,439
Speaker 5: Somebody would just say listen, just put one behind your ear.

1206
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:18,479
Speaker 4: And that was kind of weird too, you know, because

1207
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:20,919
Speaker 4: I'm listening to the room and everything. So I had

1208
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 4: I had had to really make adjustments, and it caused

1209
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 4: me to sing fragments like like like part of phrase

1210
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:32,760
Speaker 4: things like that, you know, you know you sing ladies tonight,

1211
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 4: you know, girl y'all got one, you know, then we

1212
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 4: have to go back go yah, you know, do it

1213
01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:40,760
Speaker 4: over again instead of singing through. And but I found

1214
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:43,760
Speaker 4: out that the more that I studied the song and

1215
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:47,720
Speaker 4: I knew it lyrically, then I could ingest the point

1216
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 4: of the song and that made it a lot freer

1217
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:55,040
Speaker 4: for me. But I didn't really care if who was

1218
01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 4: in the studio because I didn't really see them anyway.

1219
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 4: I would mostly see Dio and like Jim Bonafon and

1220
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:05,440
Speaker 4: maybe somebody who was in the corner. But the concentration

1221
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:09,120
Speaker 4: was just trying to do the best performance. I really

1222
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 4: wasn't worried about the people got it.

1223
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:16,080
Speaker 2: I'm one of those music kids that never gravitates towards

1224
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 2: the single. And that's because, you know, in Philly before

1225
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:23,720
Speaker 2: kind of in nineteen ninety seven, bill was signed in

1226
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 2: which like radio conglomerates could pre program all their own music.

1227
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 2: You know, Black radio pretty much let their DJs be

1228
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:35,040
Speaker 2: the taste maker, and you know.

1229
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, and DJs had names, you know, right.

1230
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:42,599
Speaker 2: So that said cats like Doug Henderson, doctor Perry Johnson,

1231
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:44,679
Speaker 2: like all the Philly cats spinning a das.

1232
01:08:45,400 --> 01:08:46,200
Speaker 1: You know, it's weird.

1233
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:48,679
Speaker 2: They played Jones versus Jones.

1234
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I know more.

1235
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 2: Than like Jones versus Jones? Was that even a single?

1236
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:56,200
Speaker 4: Oh?

1237
01:08:56,479 --> 01:09:00,800
Speaker 2: I recently found out, maybe like four five years ago

1238
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:06,679
Speaker 2: that Stevie's Isn't She Lovely? Was never a single?

1239
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:09,960
Speaker 4: What that wasn't a single?

1240
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 2: Never a single? Well, but Barry had a genius plan.

1241
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 2: He basically wanted to guarantee a number one debut. So

1242
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:24,720
Speaker 2: it was sort of like she use what you want

1243
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:27,479
Speaker 2: to play off the album and just play it. Most

1244
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:32,320
Speaker 2: people gravitated towards Isn't She Lovely? But then weird enough,

1245
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:38,560
Speaker 2: like almost nine months later, they'll officially release I wish Yeah, yeah,

1246
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:41,920
Speaker 2: like a single, but it's like July of seventy seven.

1247
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:44,960
Speaker 4: Like that was a great thing about DJs though, because

1248
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:47,960
Speaker 4: you know, before even though what was that the the

1249
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:51,599
Speaker 4: Late Night Von Harper and all of them, right, Frankie

1250
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 4: Crocker and them, they would they would play singles off albums,

1251
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 4: and that also helped us spread out. So like you,

1252
01:09:57,600 --> 01:09:59,479
Speaker 4: I would find songs and say, oh man, they did

1253
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:02,479
Speaker 4: just need to a single, you know, right, And so

1254
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 4: that was that was the power. Man. That was a

1255
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 4: beautiful thing.

1256
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:10,879
Speaker 2: When when something special first came out they weren't playing

1257
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:12,840
Speaker 2: take My Heart, even though I know there was the

1258
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 2: first single, right they was Billy owned Stepping Out. Stepping

1259
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:23,720
Speaker 2: Out should have been the first single. We weren't mad

1260
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:27,040
Speaker 2: at to get down on it that that sufficed. But

1261
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:29,680
Speaker 2: you know, back when DJ's would get promos of the

1262
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:31,040
Speaker 2: albums three months ahead of.

1263
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:33,880
Speaker 4: Time, Yeah, why do you think that's so? Why watch

1264
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:36,160
Speaker 4: Stepping Out? Was that because of the party that the

1265
01:10:36,280 --> 01:10:37,599
Speaker 4: stepping parties they had.

1266
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:39,640
Speaker 2: I'm you know, I'm in added all the keys to it.

1267
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:46,200
Speaker 2: You're singing in a smooth falsetto. As a DJ. I

1268
01:10:46,240 --> 01:10:48,800
Speaker 2: was like, well, you know, okay, so the group that

1269
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:51,280
Speaker 2: did this all the time was and I kind of

1270
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:54,240
Speaker 2: really ridiculed him for this, but this is also how

1271
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:54,559
Speaker 2: I live.

1272
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:55,439
Speaker 1: At the Tonight show.

1273
01:10:56,920 --> 01:11:00,439
Speaker 2: You play any bark song for me now, and I'll

1274
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:03,280
Speaker 2: tell you the forty five of what they were originally playing.

1275
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 4: It was like, all right, color over it, right.

1276
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:08,280
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, listen is Ruben scub and mix this up

1277
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:12,880
Speaker 2: and yeah, like shine is earthwinding fires on your face

1278
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:16,240
Speaker 2: or right right right, shaking rumps to the funks, you

1279
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:18,840
Speaker 2: know what I mean, like very derivat But in my

1280
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:21,640
Speaker 2: mind I was like I was like, I bet you

1281
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:25,800
Speaker 2: stepping out started as a quasi don't stop to get

1282
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:26,479
Speaker 2: enough groove.

1283
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 5: I don't know, but it's possible.

1284
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:30,559
Speaker 1: Answer this for me.

1285
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:35,120
Speaker 2: What is the division of labor when you guys are

1286
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:39,280
Speaker 2: recording in the studio, Like are you all together trying

1287
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:42,360
Speaker 2: to jam something out or is it like here's your part,

1288
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:45,400
Speaker 2: here's your part, here's your part, and then you write

1289
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:45,960
Speaker 2: the song later.

1290
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 4: It was all of that. Sometime we would be playing together,

1291
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:53,160
Speaker 4: but most of the time after Ladies' night, people would

1292
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:57,360
Speaker 4: bringing bits and pieces, like like when Chale we did Joanna.

1293
01:11:57,760 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 4: Charles came in. It was just a stroke guitar and

1294
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:07,559
Speaker 4: he wanted to dedicate it to his mother and we

1295
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:09,240
Speaker 4: were sitting there and said, okay.

1296
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:10,760
Speaker 5: Dear mom, that's what he called it.

1297
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:14,680
Speaker 4: We say, well, well what else? Man? No, And it

1298
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:17,760
Speaker 4: wasn't really much going on. And I think George was

1299
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:19,839
Speaker 4: the one that said, let's let's let's just take.

1300
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:22,400
Speaker 5: A name Joanna Nobody. It wasn't a Joanna.

1301
01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:24,759
Speaker 4: We knew. He just grabbed a name and it sang

1302
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:29,000
Speaker 4: really well and we never changed it. For example, who

1303
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:32,880
Speaker 4: directed that video, I don't know who was that We

1304
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:37,519
Speaker 4: shot that acting up in north Bergen on the first

1305
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 4: part and then over in Lynnhurst, New Jersey.

1306
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:41,599
Speaker 5: At the diner.

1307
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:46,120
Speaker 4: I forget who who actually shot that though that was

1308
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:46,639
Speaker 4: a lot of.

1309
01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 2: Fun in retrospect, how Burdisom was celebration because this wasn't

1310
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:58,400
Speaker 2: like at the rate where you released this song. Do

1311
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:03,400
Speaker 2: you realize that this song is not just a hit

1312
01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 2: song like that. This song is never ever going to die,

1313
01:13:08,160 --> 01:13:10,120
Speaker 2: ever ever, ever ever going to die.

1314
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:12,760
Speaker 4: It's funny you say that because I don't know if

1315
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:14,559
Speaker 4: you had you had a long talk with police, But

1316
01:13:15,439 --> 01:13:21,640
Speaker 4: I don't think police liked the guitar riff. Really, there

1317
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:23,719
Speaker 4: was a part that he didn't like too much because

1318
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:26,439
Speaker 4: we came off the road and it was it was

1319
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:27,960
Speaker 4: a part that was done. I think it was a

1320
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:31,639
Speaker 4: guitar riff and he was really pissed off about that.

1321
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:35,840
Speaker 4: We used to take the cassettes home to study, and

1322
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:37,000
Speaker 4: this is the truth.

1323
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:38,719
Speaker 5: I played it for my mother.

1324
01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:40,439
Speaker 4: That's what you think about that.

1325
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:42,320
Speaker 5: She said, you're going to sing that for the rest

1326
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:47,240
Speaker 5: of your life. Really, i Q I'm telling you, bro.

1327
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:50,200
Speaker 4: She was always like that. She was intuitive, but with

1328
01:13:50,240 --> 01:13:52,479
Speaker 4: certain things. You know, she said, you're going to sing

1329
01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:54,800
Speaker 4: that for the rest of your life and here we are.

1330
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:57,519
Speaker 4: That's why that was enough for me, but we didn't

1331
01:13:57,560 --> 01:13:58,360
Speaker 4: know as a group though.

1332
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:03,639
Speaker 2: That song is still in my DJ playlist, but now

1333
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:07,960
Speaker 2: it has a new meaning because I played the Spanish version.

1334
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:10,799
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, and.

1335
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:13,880
Speaker 2: When people like, you know, when people were playing the

1336
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:16,639
Speaker 2: hook like I'll eq, it's such that they think they're

1337
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:19,760
Speaker 2: in the regular version, and then when I put the

1338
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:23,240
Speaker 2: Spanish version on, it's always the moments where they stop

1339
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:26,880
Speaker 2: and they look at me and it's like they got

1340
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:27,720
Speaker 2: processed for.

1341
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:30,639
Speaker 4: Four seconds right right, and then.

1342
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:33,320
Speaker 2: Like they're really like it almost energizes the more that

1343
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:36,120
Speaker 2: you guys would have been so considerate. I mean Motown

1344
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:39,439
Speaker 2: used to do that all the time. But whatever burdens some.

1345
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:41,800
Speaker 4: To Yeah, that was a big thing to do, but

1346
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 4: we were really huge in South America. They and that

1347
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:48,880
Speaker 4: was the labels idea. They said, listen, man, you got

1348
01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:52,559
Speaker 4: a huge following to South America. Let's try the Spanish version.

1349
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:55,040
Speaker 4: And Diodado actually wrote out the lyrics for me.

1350
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:57,200
Speaker 1: How did you guys hook up with Dia Datto?

1351
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:00,800
Speaker 4: I don't know how he came into play, except that

1352
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:03,560
Speaker 4: I think he was working at House of Music. Was

1353
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:08,160
Speaker 4: a John Trope if I'm not mistaken, and gave in

1354
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:11,320
Speaker 4: them talk to him about you know, producing cool in

1355
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:13,880
Speaker 4: the gang. That was before I came, so I don't

1356
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:15,679
Speaker 4: really know that entire story.

1357
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:20,160
Speaker 3: What was your daughter from your perspective bringing to the production,

1358
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:23,600
Speaker 3: to the making of the music or the arrangements or

1359
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:24,240
Speaker 3: anything like that.

1360
01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 4: Well, the most I had heard, you know, he was

1361
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:31,400
Speaker 4: this unbelievable arranger. I didn't know much about him, and

1362
01:15:31,439 --> 01:15:33,280
Speaker 4: so I just started looking them up, you know, and

1363
01:15:33,320 --> 01:15:35,800
Speaker 4: I think he had Did he have two thousand and

1364
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:41,280
Speaker 4: one space honesty? Yeah, yeah at that time, but beyond

1365
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:43,760
Speaker 4: But more so than that, I just heard that his

1366
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:48,640
Speaker 4: collection of and respect that he had as an arranger

1367
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:53,920
Speaker 4: was pretty pretty widespread. Everybody that spoke of him spoke

1368
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:56,800
Speaker 4: very highly of him. So when he would talk to

1369
01:15:56,880 --> 01:16:00,960
Speaker 4: us about music, it wasn't so much telling us this

1370
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:03,720
Speaker 4: is that I'm going to put this major chord here

1371
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:06,200
Speaker 4: and this minor. It wasn't that, it was just he

1372
01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:07,880
Speaker 4: would do it, and he would always do.

1373
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:10,719
Speaker 5: It with a smile, with his little cigarette in his mouth.

1374
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:14,360
Speaker 4: You know, his piece and you know, an unassuming guy.

1375
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:18,080
Speaker 4: But when he brought the orchestra in to do the

1376
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:23,040
Speaker 4: streaming work, that's when I opened my mind again and

1377
01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:25,320
Speaker 4: saw him, they you know, they greeted him as doctor,

1378
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 4: and I said yes, And it actually flipped me back

1379
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 4: to when I was in high school or what was it,

1380
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:36,240
Speaker 4: maybe grade school when my my music teacher took us

1381
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:39,599
Speaker 4: to see how the West was Won in New York.

1382
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:42,400
Speaker 4: The movie but it was a screenplay, and I mean

1383
01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:44,920
Speaker 4: screen was on a movie was on screen, but there

1384
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:47,240
Speaker 4: was a real orchestra. And that was my first time

1385
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:50,320
Speaker 4: seeing an orchestra. So when I saw dal do that,

1386
01:16:50,439 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 4: you know, I had become accustomed to first be quiet

1387
01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:57,519
Speaker 4: and listen and understand how parts work together.

1388
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:00,840
Speaker 3: I was always curious what he was bringing to that

1389
01:17:01,360 --> 01:17:02,160
Speaker 3: the recipe.

1390
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:06,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was I again, I'm all ears man and

1391
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:09,240
Speaker 4: just bringing it all in. And I think that his

1392
01:17:09,479 --> 01:17:11,560
Speaker 4: the key thing was just his arrangements.

1393
01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:14,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Was he playing any of the keyboards?

1394
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:15,320
Speaker 4: Uh?

1395
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:16,599
Speaker 5: Yeah, sometimes he did.

1396
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:18,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, But he also brought in a couple of people,

1397
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 4: this guy named Adam on Too Hot. If you listen

1398
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:25,360
Speaker 4: to Too Hot real close, there's a Fender Rods in

1399
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 4: the back besides the whole courts that are playing, and

1400
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:33,200
Speaker 4: it's it's making these certain movements that each time I

1401
01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:36,280
Speaker 4: I have a band keyboards try to play it, they

1402
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:40,320
Speaker 4: usually uh miss that because the movements have all these

1403
01:17:40,320 --> 01:17:43,720
Speaker 4: overtones going, you know, for those roads had that beautiful

1404
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:48,160
Speaker 4: reverb bottom you know. So, but yeah, he was, he's

1405
01:17:48,200 --> 01:17:51,720
Speaker 4: he's a master man, he's he's a treasurer. Now. I

1406
01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:55,080
Speaker 4: think if he had met him, or the Groove had

1407
01:17:55,120 --> 01:18:00,719
Speaker 4: met him, we wouldn't have all these hits.

1408
01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:06,519
Speaker 2: I would probably say that something special is that's sentimental

1409
01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:08,479
Speaker 2: to me, because you know, I got that for Christmas.

1410
01:18:08,479 --> 01:18:13,080
Speaker 2: It was Christmas. Christmas of eighty one.

1411
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:14,240
Speaker 1: Was a special Christmas one.

1412
01:18:14,320 --> 01:18:15,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1413
01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:18,880
Speaker 2: Of your canon, which album do you feel is your

1414
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:23,640
Speaker 2: best performance and of your song catalog?

1415
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:26,360
Speaker 3: How are you going to steal my question like this

1416
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:29,679
Speaker 3: mister quest left take it away? Well, no, no, because

1417
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:32,000
Speaker 3: actually they are coming from you because it's kind of like,

1418
01:18:32,360 --> 01:18:34,479
Speaker 3: you know, it's kind of you're not supposed to ask

1419
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:36,960
Speaker 3: this question really, you know, like because they're all in

1420
01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:37,759
Speaker 3: your baby.

1421
01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:38,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's your favorite kid?

1422
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:43,000
Speaker 4: You like? Yeah, right, exactly. But I'll say the album wise,

1423
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:47,559
Speaker 4: it would be Emergency Okay, wow, Emergency album. But I

1424
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:48,200
Speaker 4: think that.

1425
01:18:48,240 --> 01:18:49,960
Speaker 2: Was also the biggest selling correct.

1426
01:18:50,160 --> 01:18:52,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, biggest self.

1427
01:18:52,520 --> 01:18:55,960
Speaker 4: But I still say, you know too Hot has something

1428
01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:59,519
Speaker 4: that's romantic that because when I listen to it, you know,

1429
01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:03,400
Speaker 4: I could listen and I remember how again I was

1430
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:07,559
Speaker 4: still learning things, and I could hear vocal things that

1431
01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:08,240
Speaker 4: I said.

1432
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:13,799
Speaker 5: Would do that now, you know, or things that, being more.

1433
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:17,040
Speaker 4: Mature and able to do more with my voice now

1434
01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:20,960
Speaker 4: things I would have tried something a little different. But

1435
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:26,960
Speaker 4: I think too Hot as a song, but Emergency as

1436
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:27,479
Speaker 4: the album.

1437
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:30,880
Speaker 2: Wait, I don't know if I got the answer. Did

1438
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:33,120
Speaker 2: Celebration become burdensome at all?

1439
01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:33,960
Speaker 1: Like?

1440
01:19:34,040 --> 01:19:36,040
Speaker 2: Did it get too big for you? Do you feel

1441
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:39,160
Speaker 2: like it was ridiculed too much? Was it too successful?

1442
01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:40,240
Speaker 4: No?

1443
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:43,519
Speaker 2: Not for me, Like this song took you places that

1444
01:19:44,240 --> 01:19:47,800
Speaker 2: I don't think your other contemporaries like, they weren't your contemporaries.

1445
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:51,760
Speaker 2: It wasn't like BT Express or Mass Production or hell

1446
01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:55,200
Speaker 2: even Earth Wind and Fire kind of stalled at the

1447
01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:57,439
Speaker 2: gate of the early eighties, and you guys were able

1448
01:19:57,439 --> 01:20:00,240
Speaker 2: to go places that they weren't able to ago.

1449
01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:04,960
Speaker 4: It was electric man, because again, you know, you know,

1450
01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:08,200
Speaker 4: you write songs and when you finish, you just feel

1451
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:10,559
Speaker 4: good about it. You don't know what's going to happen

1452
01:20:10,600 --> 01:20:12,439
Speaker 4: with it. You know, you just put your heart and

1453
01:20:12,479 --> 01:20:15,680
Speaker 4: soul into it. And that's basically what we did. And

1454
01:20:15,720 --> 01:20:18,360
Speaker 4: there was the pieces. We had a mechanic over here.

1455
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:20,800
Speaker 4: One got twisted and knob there, this guy turned that

1456
01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:24,160
Speaker 4: one just did that, and we put it together and

1457
01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:26,160
Speaker 4: the label said, I think we got something.

1458
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:28,760
Speaker 5: But you know, if the machine isn't.

1459
01:20:28,479 --> 01:20:31,280
Speaker 4: There a lot of songs that may have been a

1460
01:20:31,320 --> 01:20:35,360
Speaker 4: celebration level, you know, don't make it. We had everything,

1461
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:38,840
Speaker 4: everything was lined up for us, you know, and with

1462
01:20:38,920 --> 01:20:42,280
Speaker 4: me becoming more of a face and a sound that

1463
01:20:42,439 --> 01:20:46,519
Speaker 4: was becoming familiar, they kind of went with that, you know,

1464
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:49,680
Speaker 4: and even the yahoos and all that stuff. And you know,

1465
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:52,240
Speaker 4: I always tell that joke, you're not you very rarely

1466
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:54,520
Speaker 4: hear like a black group say Yahoo.

1467
01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:56,040
Speaker 5: You know, that's.

1468
01:20:55,640 --> 01:20:58,479
Speaker 4: Usually doubt for the country groups, you know what I mean.

1469
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:01,679
Speaker 4: But it was again, you know, you got the low voice.

1470
01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:03,960
Speaker 4: It's a solo graces, you know, so.

1471
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:05,759
Speaker 2: Something for everybody to sing.

1472
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:09,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and you just sing along. And we talked

1473
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 4: about the Bob mitchfih you're talking about. You know, the

1474
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:13,879
Speaker 4: worst thing is when you hear them playing the wrong inversion.

1475
01:21:14,640 --> 01:21:17,360
Speaker 2: I'm sure you've been pretty to every version of celebration

1476
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:18,040
Speaker 2: knowing the man.

1477
01:21:18,760 --> 01:21:21,280
Speaker 4: I'm telling you, man, and the worst when they tried

1478
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:23,280
Speaker 4: to get me to come up and sing, no, I

1479
01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:24,680
Speaker 4: have too many drinks already, so.

1480
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:31,479
Speaker 2: Oh cool game saying at our hostell Yah, yeah exactly,

1481
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:34,920
Speaker 2: Jay Tay, you come down, don't about so if you

1482
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:36,479
Speaker 2: don't want to answer, you don't have to answer.

1483
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:37,920
Speaker 4: Go go to it.

1484
01:21:37,960 --> 01:21:38,160
Speaker 5: Man.

1485
01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:40,360
Speaker 2: What were the hedonistic eighties?

1486
01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:45,640
Speaker 4: Like girls, girls, girls, some drugs? All right, but we

1487
01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:48,680
Speaker 4: did we didn't really really get into that. It was

1488
01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:56,639
Speaker 4: just again, the the success became big within a year

1489
01:21:56,760 --> 01:22:00,840
Speaker 4: to two year period that it consume us in a

1490
01:22:00,880 --> 01:22:04,320
Speaker 4: way that we did. I don't think that the group

1491
01:22:04,439 --> 01:22:08,479
Speaker 4: knew how to be how to receive it in that way,

1492
01:22:08,520 --> 01:22:08,760
Speaker 4: you know.

1493
01:22:09,560 --> 01:22:12,640
Speaker 2: So for you to come in at seventy nine and

1494
01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:18,360
Speaker 2: you're pretty much coming into a situation one you know

1495
01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:22,160
Speaker 2: that bring success and you're kind of the reason for

1496
01:22:22,240 --> 01:22:27,280
Speaker 2: that success. Yeah, But I always wanted to know for

1497
01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:32,000
Speaker 2: the band members that were there before nineteen sixty nine,

1498
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:36,519
Speaker 2: before the label deals and all that stuff, or Spike

1499
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:44,439
Speaker 2: for DT for Cool, for Calice, for George, what is

1500
01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:45,599
Speaker 2: success for them?

1501
01:22:45,800 --> 01:22:45,880
Speaker 5: Like?

1502
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:51,400
Speaker 2: I mean, you guys are the only Americans besides Jody

1503
01:22:51,479 --> 01:22:56,439
Speaker 2: Wattley at do they know it's Christmas? Right, But you

1504
01:22:56,520 --> 01:23:03,519
Speaker 2: guys are at a crazy level of notariety. So how

1505
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:06,799
Speaker 2: are they adjusting to this? If you can speak for them.

1506
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:10,240
Speaker 4: I really can't. But all I know is that we

1507
01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:14,560
Speaker 4: all shared and everything equally. It wasn't like at a

1508
01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:17,200
Speaker 4: certain point, you know, when we were at one time

1509
01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:20,080
Speaker 4: flying coach, you know what I mean, then you're flying

1510
01:23:20,120 --> 01:23:24,120
Speaker 4: first class full you know, when attensions started happening. I

1511
01:23:24,160 --> 01:23:27,840
Speaker 4: started having my own car. Stuff like that happened. But

1512
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:31,960
Speaker 4: when we hit the stage, it was about let's go

1513
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:35,200
Speaker 4: take this, let's put the flag down, you know, and

1514
01:23:35,200 --> 01:23:37,920
Speaker 4: and all of this stuff really helped me segue into

1515
01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:40,080
Speaker 4: my solo career, right.

1516
01:23:40,240 --> 01:23:41,840
Speaker 5: It was. It was a really proven ground.

1517
01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:45,679
Speaker 4: But I can't really speak to how they received it,

1518
01:23:46,439 --> 01:23:51,080
Speaker 4: whether they were overjoyed, because they never said to me,

1519
01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:53,720
Speaker 4: you know, don't forget this is the group, you know,

1520
01:23:53,960 --> 01:23:56,639
Speaker 4: or don't think you're too big, and stuff like that

1521
01:23:56,640 --> 01:24:01,160
Speaker 4: that came from outside, you know, And it was time

1522
01:24:01,320 --> 01:24:03,559
Speaker 4: for me to make my exit. It had reached a

1523
01:24:03,680 --> 01:24:08,479
Speaker 4: height where that type of tension had gotten too much

1524
01:24:08,560 --> 01:24:11,559
Speaker 4: and I didn't think that they had my back anymore.

1525
01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:14,519
Speaker 4: And we did a show it and I forget it.

1526
01:24:14,600 --> 01:24:19,640
Speaker 4: New Year's done, Atlantic City, and I had flu and

1527
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:22,080
Speaker 4: I was really, really sick. And of course back then,

1528
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:25,280
Speaker 4: I was about one point fifty, you know what I mean,

1529
01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:29,479
Speaker 4: soaking wet, and we had been touring and it was

1530
01:24:29,479 --> 01:24:31,519
Speaker 4: the end of the year, and you know, New Year's

1531
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:34,880
Speaker 4: was always big Moneay night, and I was sick, but

1532
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:38,880
Speaker 4: I refused not to perform. And I went out there

1533
01:24:39,720 --> 01:24:45,240
Speaker 4: and sound voices half gone, and I doing cherish and

1534
01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:48,920
Speaker 4: I closed. I closed my eyes, and when I tried

1535
01:24:48,920 --> 01:24:52,360
Speaker 4: to open them, all I saw was red. No, not

1536
01:24:52,400 --> 01:24:55,800
Speaker 4: an object, just a wall of red, like just red.

1537
01:24:56,479 --> 01:25:00,599
Speaker 4: And I froze and I opened my eyes again and

1538
01:25:00,600 --> 01:25:04,240
Speaker 4: it came open, but then it went red again, and

1539
01:25:04,280 --> 01:25:08,400
Speaker 4: I got scared to death, man, and I was able

1540
01:25:08,439 --> 01:25:11,200
Speaker 4: to walk backstage, and poor, I think poor. I pulled

1541
01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:14,720
Speaker 4: cool off of somebody. I said, listen, play play jungle Boy.

1542
01:25:14,760 --> 01:25:16,479
Speaker 4: Holly was swinging something. Let me go back here and

1543
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:20,160
Speaker 4: get myself together. And when I couldn't, I had to

1544
01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:24,240
Speaker 4: come back out. And I left the stage that particular night.

1545
01:25:24,479 --> 01:25:27,960
Speaker 4: I'm back there and all my family was at the audience.

1546
01:25:27,960 --> 01:25:30,719
Speaker 4: You know, they ran backstage. People even fans were coming

1547
01:25:30,720 --> 01:25:32,400
Speaker 4: back saying you know what's wrong with what happened. They

1548
01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:35,599
Speaker 4: knew something was wrong because I've never been like this

1549
01:25:35,960 --> 01:25:38,479
Speaker 4: and I'm sitting in my room and none of the

1550
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:40,879
Speaker 4: guys came over to see how I was doing, except

1551
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:44,000
Speaker 4: one guy, Curtis that he told them, he say, God,

1552
01:25:44,160 --> 01:25:46,519
Speaker 4: didn't you see this guy sick? You know he can't

1553
01:25:46,560 --> 01:25:51,599
Speaker 4: do it. And that part hurt me more because I

1554
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:55,080
Speaker 4: felt that their interest was more worrying about making.

1555
01:25:54,800 --> 01:25:56,960
Speaker 2: The money that brand.

1556
01:25:57,040 --> 01:26:00,880
Speaker 4: A guy who've been here since the label was gonna

1557
01:26:01,040 --> 01:26:03,800
Speaker 4: was going to drop you guys in the seventies and

1558
01:26:03,880 --> 01:26:06,240
Speaker 4: we got together and it was never I never claimed

1559
01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:08,880
Speaker 4: it was just me, you know, never had that attitude.

1560
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:12,280
Speaker 4: But to get to this point and you don't even

1561
01:26:12,280 --> 01:26:15,000
Speaker 4: come back to check on a guy, I said, that's

1562
01:26:15,040 --> 01:26:15,880
Speaker 4: it and I.

1563
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:16,559
Speaker 5: And I left.

1564
01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:18,240
Speaker 2: That's how you left the group.

1565
01:26:18,720 --> 01:26:22,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, that night, I called my family and I said,

1566
01:26:22,640 --> 01:26:23,040
Speaker 4: I got it.

1567
01:26:23,240 --> 01:26:24,400
Speaker 5: I can't do this anymore.

1568
01:26:25,200 --> 01:26:28,320
Speaker 4: So it was it was obviously back to your question

1569
01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:33,479
Speaker 4: that they must have felt something along the way, more

1570
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:36,760
Speaker 4: than what I felt of them, because I never looked

1571
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:40,519
Speaker 4: at them any other way except what we did. And uh,

1572
01:26:40,640 --> 01:26:42,920
Speaker 4: but that was that was that was a rough time

1573
01:26:43,080 --> 01:26:46,360
Speaker 4: because I was really really sick. But I never let on.

1574
01:26:47,280 --> 01:26:49,559
Speaker 4: And you know I've had that many times over the years.

1575
01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:52,600
Speaker 4: I was not well and I still did shows, you know,

1576
01:26:52,640 --> 01:26:56,160
Speaker 4: because I knew I had more responsibility just myself. You know,

1577
01:26:56,240 --> 01:26:59,680
Speaker 4: they had families, you know, themselves. We had records to

1578
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:02,760
Speaker 4: break and you know, sacrifice, man, you know, you can

1579
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:05,320
Speaker 4: do this. And many times I just go back to

1580
01:27:05,360 --> 01:27:09,000
Speaker 4: my room and you know, taking Mrror and Gen sing

1581
01:27:09,040 --> 01:27:12,360
Speaker 4: and you know, all these different things. And I mean

1582
01:27:12,360 --> 01:27:14,519
Speaker 4: a cliff for Adams, you know, he would he was

1583
01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:17,000
Speaker 4: into all of that and he would be me Golden

1584
01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:19,360
Speaker 4: seal and I'm not, you know, trying to get right.

1585
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:23,240
Speaker 4: So but I never let all. Hey man, I can't

1586
01:27:23,240 --> 01:27:26,320
Speaker 4: sing the night. You know. Sometime, like when we started

1587
01:27:26,360 --> 01:27:29,920
Speaker 4: to sing a stepping Out, it was difficult because it

1588
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:33,920
Speaker 4: was a falsetto and you know, sometimes that click wouldn't

1589
01:27:33,960 --> 01:27:36,400
Speaker 4: happen and it would take like a few songs to

1590
01:27:36,479 --> 01:27:38,200
Speaker 4: get there, so we'd have to like take that out

1591
01:27:38,240 --> 01:27:40,960
Speaker 4: of the set. But most of the time, you know,

1592
01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:43,400
Speaker 4: you can walk your way through it, you know. But

1593
01:27:43,400 --> 01:27:47,559
Speaker 4: but that was it, man. But again, what I got into,

1594
01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:51,679
Speaker 4: you know, my solo solo dealing, you know, my first

1595
01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:56,640
Speaker 4: I met with Gerald Busby, and Jerreld said.

1596
01:27:56,400 --> 01:27:59,160
Speaker 5: Listen, man, I don't think you need to be at motow.

1597
01:28:00,439 --> 01:28:02,080
Speaker 5: You need to go talk to Clive.

1598
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:07,360
Speaker 4: And and I remember sitting with Clive and Clive played

1599
01:28:07,360 --> 01:28:07,640
Speaker 4: for me.

1600
01:28:07,680 --> 01:28:09,800
Speaker 5: You don't believe that that's what friends are for.

1601
01:28:10,920 --> 01:28:16,320
Speaker 4: In his office, you know, with Luther and Stevie and

1602
01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:18,880
Speaker 4: and and at that time I thought maybe he felt

1603
01:28:18,880 --> 01:28:20,120
Speaker 4: that maybe I should be one.

1604
01:28:20,000 --> 01:28:23,400
Speaker 5: That was singing that could do that and make a

1605
01:28:23,400 --> 01:28:24,160
Speaker 5: long story short.

1606
01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:27,320
Speaker 4: M c A offered me more money, so I ended

1607
01:28:27,400 --> 01:28:29,080
Speaker 4: up signing with MCA over.

1608
01:28:28,920 --> 01:28:31,840
Speaker 2: There well the Master of the Game album correct.

1609
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:32,080
Speaker 5: Master the Game.

1610
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:35,200
Speaker 4: I was the first, yeah master the game and uh,

1611
01:28:35,240 --> 01:28:38,439
Speaker 4: you know working with little Silas over there, the A

1612
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:38,800
Speaker 4: and R.

1613
01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:42,840
Speaker 2: I hear a lot about him, but his name always

1614
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:45,519
Speaker 2: comes up when it's like new edition related stories or whatever.

1615
01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:49,680
Speaker 2: But what was it like being on your own and

1616
01:28:50,479 --> 01:28:52,080
Speaker 2: only having yourself to answer to?

1617
01:28:53,080 --> 01:28:55,400
Speaker 4: It was a little frightening, I was must say, go

1618
01:28:55,479 --> 01:28:57,920
Speaker 4: frightening because you know I was so used to from

1619
01:28:58,160 --> 01:29:01,479
Speaker 4: you know, being a young teenager with the band. You know,

1620
01:29:01,720 --> 01:29:04,880
Speaker 4: like I said, Electro five, you know the street dance

1621
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:07,320
Speaker 4: of these bands, file at Soul, you know, moved the gang.

1622
01:29:07,320 --> 01:29:08,000
Speaker 4: It was always like.

1623
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:09,479
Speaker 5: A group of collection, you know.

1624
01:29:10,120 --> 01:29:14,439
Speaker 4: And when I got out there, I realized that I

1625
01:29:14,479 --> 01:29:19,400
Speaker 4: didn't know as much as I needed to know about

1626
01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:23,439
Speaker 4: how to really structure songs like complete, you know what

1627
01:29:23,479 --> 01:29:25,559
Speaker 4: I mean. I could do parts and things like that,

1628
01:29:25,600 --> 01:29:28,920
Speaker 4: but and lyrics, but I didn't claim to be a pianist,

1629
01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:32,519
Speaker 4: like a skill musician and nothing like this. But I

1630
01:29:32,520 --> 01:29:36,639
Speaker 4: could anything I hear, I can write. I've always had that,

1631
01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:41,840
Speaker 4: you know. And when I got with MCA, I realized

1632
01:29:41,880 --> 01:29:44,479
Speaker 4: that they wanted me to do something like I had

1633
01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:48,360
Speaker 4: done before with cooling them, and I was already beyond that,

1634
01:29:48,960 --> 01:29:51,840
Speaker 4: you know. I wanted to be more of a eclectic

1635
01:29:51,960 --> 01:29:55,559
Speaker 4: artist and bring in the styles that I loved, you know,

1636
01:29:55,640 --> 01:29:59,200
Speaker 4: from rock and all these different things. And so I

1637
01:29:59,240 --> 01:30:01,320
Speaker 4: hoped it was had named Dennis mccowski.

1638
01:30:02,040 --> 01:30:02,960
Speaker 2: Okay.

1639
01:30:03,160 --> 01:30:07,839
Speaker 4: He introduced me to James Ingram Ta Vega, Rose Stone,

1640
01:30:08,880 --> 01:30:13,280
Speaker 4: Phil Perry, James, you know, Jeff Picaro, Pelino da Costa,

1641
01:30:13,720 --> 01:30:18,200
Speaker 4: and I was like, Okay, this is this. I love this,

1642
01:30:18,200 --> 01:30:21,040
Speaker 4: this this collection right here. And that's when I started

1643
01:30:21,040 --> 01:30:23,920
Speaker 4: working on Massive Game and plus publishers were sending me

1644
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:28,400
Speaker 4: songs uh to uh to choose from, you know, and

1645
01:30:28,439 --> 01:30:30,800
Speaker 4: that kind of helped me a lot. But Louell, he

1646
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:33,960
Speaker 4: was there the whole time trying to help me get

1647
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:37,320
Speaker 4: a hit record, you know, because again I got paid

1648
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:40,840
Speaker 4: well and the record company was just kind of letting

1649
01:30:40,880 --> 01:30:43,920
Speaker 4: me do what I wanted to do. And uh, you know,

1650
01:30:44,320 --> 01:30:48,160
Speaker 4: the first single, I still think they picked the wrong song.

1651
01:30:49,160 --> 01:30:50,120
Speaker 5: They picked the other songs.

1652
01:30:50,160 --> 01:30:54,360
Speaker 4: Sister Rosa and I did a video with Michael Peters,

1653
01:30:54,400 --> 01:30:56,640
Speaker 4: you know who did Thriller, you know, with Michael and

1654
01:30:56,720 --> 01:31:00,280
Speaker 4: all that stuff, and we went did the whole video

1655
01:31:00,280 --> 01:31:02,479
Speaker 4: and everything like this, but they didn't jump on the

1656
01:31:02,560 --> 01:31:06,360
Speaker 4: record because I still think they should have chosen Romancia

1657
01:31:06,520 --> 01:31:10,439
Speaker 4: or some other yeah, yeah, you know, And uh so

1658
01:31:10,520 --> 01:31:13,320
Speaker 4: that kind of a little bit of taste there, and

1659
01:31:13,439 --> 01:31:16,479
Speaker 4: you know, people were expecting j T the song. You know,

1660
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:18,680
Speaker 4: it ain't no ladies night, you know, when are you

1661
01:31:18,760 --> 01:31:22,120
Speaker 4: gonna do that? And I was doing my interviews, I'd

1662
01:31:22,120 --> 01:31:25,960
Speaker 4: tell everybody, I said, well I did that, and my

1663
01:31:26,120 --> 01:31:27,240
Speaker 4: mind isn't there now.

1664
01:31:28,120 --> 01:31:31,240
Speaker 5: And that's when I think Bobby Brown hit a.

1665
01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:35,160
Speaker 4: New audition, right and by Bobby was blowing the doors out,

1666
01:31:35,360 --> 01:31:38,880
Speaker 4: you know, right there, and they said, well won't you

1667
01:31:38,880 --> 01:31:39,920
Speaker 4: give me something like that.

1668
01:31:40,280 --> 01:31:41,439
Speaker 5: And I was like, I.

1669
01:31:41,360 --> 01:31:43,599
Speaker 4: Said, then you talked to Bobby and he's like, well man,

1670
01:31:43,640 --> 01:31:45,639
Speaker 4: we tried to be like what you what you did?

1671
01:31:46,160 --> 01:31:46,320
Speaker 5: You know?

1672
01:31:46,920 --> 01:31:49,040
Speaker 4: So how you guys telling me to do something like that?

1673
01:31:49,160 --> 01:31:51,639
Speaker 4: So it started that. That's when the mill started turning

1674
01:31:52,240 --> 01:31:55,479
Speaker 4: and we knew we had to you know, kind of

1675
01:31:55,520 --> 01:31:58,600
Speaker 4: go back at it, you know. And and even with

1676
01:31:58,720 --> 01:32:02,160
Speaker 4: James Ingra and all these guys on, they still didn't

1677
01:32:02,280 --> 01:32:03,679
Speaker 4: you know, promoted the right way.

1678
01:32:04,360 --> 01:32:11,320
Speaker 2: Was it hard adjusting in an environment more conducive to

1679
01:32:11,479 --> 01:32:17,880
Speaker 2: like New Jack swing than say, the kind of musicianship

1680
01:32:17,920 --> 01:32:18,960
Speaker 2: that you were used to?

1681
01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:19,880
Speaker 4: Like?

1682
01:32:20,120 --> 01:32:24,479
Speaker 2: Was it? What does it mean to be faced with

1683
01:32:24,520 --> 01:32:27,000
Speaker 2: a pivot? You know instead of a band, you might

1684
01:32:27,040 --> 01:32:28,439
Speaker 2: have to have two dancers with you.

1685
01:32:29,720 --> 01:32:33,320
Speaker 4: That was fun I did. I did in fact, actually

1686
01:32:34,320 --> 01:32:37,040
Speaker 4: that Teddy, Yeah, that Teddy Teddy actually did a song

1687
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:39,000
Speaker 4: you know, eight days for me.

1688
01:32:39,080 --> 01:32:40,559
Speaker 5: So I had those dancers.

1689
01:32:40,600 --> 01:32:43,960
Speaker 4: But it was again, it wasn't it was music, man,

1690
01:32:44,280 --> 01:32:46,720
Speaker 4: It wasn't. This is not rocket science here. You know,

1691
01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:50,880
Speaker 4: it's like, what do you feel? You know? I'm still

1692
01:32:50,960 --> 01:32:53,880
Speaker 4: that same way today, you know, like I write every

1693
01:32:54,000 --> 01:32:58,479
Speaker 4: day and it's always something that you know, I'm sure

1694
01:32:58,520 --> 01:33:01,000
Speaker 4: when I finished with you, you know, I'm going to

1695
01:33:01,080 --> 01:33:05,120
Speaker 4: write something about this experience. So wow, I said, let's

1696
01:33:05,160 --> 01:33:05,599
Speaker 4: go at it.

1697
01:33:05,920 --> 01:33:11,120
Speaker 2: Okay, Hey, in the history of you being a professional singer,

1698
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:17,120
Speaker 2: as anyone ever yelled fire and rein to you from

1699
01:33:17,160 --> 01:33:22,360
Speaker 2: the audience, you did steal my question, I was.

1700
01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:26,040
Speaker 3: I was honestly wondering about that today about look at

1701
01:33:26,040 --> 01:33:27,400
Speaker 3: his victory pose. That's great.

1702
01:33:29,040 --> 01:33:29,120
Speaker 4: No.

1703
01:33:29,240 --> 01:33:32,519
Speaker 3: I used to sort of study the publishing stuff in

1704
01:33:32,720 --> 01:33:35,840
Speaker 3: credits and in like sort of books, and I was

1705
01:33:35,880 --> 01:33:39,599
Speaker 3: always wondering if if the publishing ever got crossed between

1706
01:33:39,640 --> 01:33:41,640
Speaker 3: you guys, you know, and anything.

1707
01:33:42,360 --> 01:33:44,519
Speaker 4: Not the money At that time, he was making big

1708
01:33:44,560 --> 01:33:47,639
Speaker 4: money and we weren't. But but I used to when

1709
01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:52,320
Speaker 4: I first went solo, the publishers got things mixed up.

1710
01:33:52,640 --> 01:33:55,120
Speaker 4: In fact, at the at the Rock and Roll Hall

1711
01:33:55,160 --> 01:33:58,479
Speaker 4: of Fame, he came over to my room and I'm

1712
01:33:58,479 --> 01:34:01,000
Speaker 4: in the dressing room, and he came over to meet me.

1713
01:34:01,040 --> 01:34:02,280
Speaker 5: He said, I always wanted to beat you.

1714
01:34:02,360 --> 01:34:05,320
Speaker 2: I said, really, and no, that was the first time

1715
01:34:05,360 --> 01:34:05,840
Speaker 2: y'all met.

1716
01:34:06,120 --> 01:34:08,519
Speaker 4: That's the first time we met, right.

1717
01:34:08,560 --> 01:34:10,120
Speaker 2: I wish I could have been there for that.

1718
01:34:10,400 --> 01:34:12,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, man, And he came over and we hugged each

1719
01:34:12,920 --> 01:34:17,000
Speaker 4: other and we share some you know, conversation, and I

1720
01:34:17,040 --> 01:34:18,960
Speaker 4: told him that story. I said, I was getting these

1721
01:34:19,320 --> 01:34:21,800
Speaker 4: like kind of country songs, man, and you know, my

1722
01:34:22,640 --> 01:34:24,640
Speaker 4: manager said, wait a minute, I think this supposed to

1723
01:34:24,680 --> 01:34:26,479
Speaker 4: be for the other James Taylor. So we had a

1724
01:34:26,560 --> 01:34:28,760
Speaker 4: laugh and I said, I want to do something with you,

1725
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:31,320
Speaker 4: and he said, let's do that. You know, so that

1726
01:34:31,400 --> 01:34:32,920
Speaker 4: might happen in the near future.

1727
01:34:34,120 --> 01:34:37,800
Speaker 2: Voices I approve of that. Do you know Marvin ever

1728
01:34:37,920 --> 01:34:42,680
Speaker 2: heard You're not to him on? Take my heart if

1729
01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:43,080
Speaker 2: you want it.

1730
01:34:44,120 --> 01:34:46,479
Speaker 4: I don't know, man, but I've been tell you because

1731
01:34:46,520 --> 01:34:48,680
Speaker 4: you know I'm a big Marvin fan as well. But

1732
01:34:48,800 --> 01:34:51,320
Speaker 4: we were doing the that's when I was still with Cool.

1733
01:34:51,760 --> 01:34:55,200
Speaker 4: We did the rain I think the Rainbow Room or

1734
01:34:55,240 --> 01:35:00,360
Speaker 4: the Rainbow Theater in London, and we're on stage because

1735
01:35:00,479 --> 01:35:02,280
Speaker 4: I don't know what song we were singing, and I

1736
01:35:02,320 --> 01:35:05,839
Speaker 4: looked to my left over in the corner and Marvin

1737
01:35:05,920 --> 01:35:11,080
Speaker 4: is standing in the way man, almost like yeah, he

1738
01:35:11,120 --> 01:35:13,280
Speaker 4: was living there, right, So of course I had to

1739
01:35:13,320 --> 01:35:17,879
Speaker 4: bring him on. And just walking on stage place with berserk,

1740
01:35:18,479 --> 01:35:21,400
Speaker 4: and you know, he walked off and we were taking

1741
01:35:21,400 --> 01:35:23,680
Speaker 4: a picture to the other look, he's looking over at

1742
01:35:23,760 --> 01:35:26,479
Speaker 4: me like this, you know, looking down on me. He said,

1743
01:35:26,560 --> 01:35:26,800
Speaker 4: j T.

1744
01:35:27,000 --> 01:35:28,439
Speaker 5: You know I can slam dunk you.

1745
01:35:28,439 --> 01:35:31,240
Speaker 4: You know that, right, I said, bro, I can play

1746
01:35:31,240 --> 01:35:34,439
Speaker 4: ball too, but let's do this. We never got to play,

1747
01:35:35,000 --> 01:35:38,160
Speaker 4: but he was. He was amazing. Man. I would have

1748
01:35:38,760 --> 01:35:40,960
Speaker 4: loved to just take the ball to him a little

1749
01:35:40,960 --> 01:35:42,280
Speaker 4: bit because he was a tall he was kind of

1750
01:35:42,320 --> 01:35:46,000
Speaker 4: a tall guy. It would have been tough. But yeah,

1751
01:35:46,040 --> 01:35:47,720
Speaker 4: but no, I don't know if he ever did.

1752
01:35:48,600 --> 01:35:50,320
Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite as yours.

1753
01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:54,960
Speaker 4: Like I was actually talking to George because George wrote

1754
01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:59,360
Speaker 4: the song, and he was like I said, like Marvin,

1755
01:36:00,240 --> 01:36:04,000
Speaker 4: huh right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1756
01:36:03,360 --> 01:36:06,240
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly. You know, there was a time period in

1757
01:36:06,320 --> 01:36:10,599
Speaker 2: which videos were not necessary but could be an option

1758
01:36:10,680 --> 01:36:13,160
Speaker 2: to help you sell a little more if you were

1759
01:36:13,160 --> 01:36:14,960
Speaker 2: trying to get your stuff played on like Top of

1760
01:36:15,000 --> 01:36:17,360
Speaker 2: the Pops or you know, if you couldn't get to

1761
01:36:17,479 --> 01:36:20,679
Speaker 2: Europe in time. What was the video process like, because

1762
01:36:21,240 --> 01:36:27,840
Speaker 2: even that video for Misled, which I'll never understand, like

1763
01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:29,840
Speaker 2: are you just showing up? And like okay, it's a

1764
01:36:30,000 --> 01:36:33,800
Speaker 2: chase scene with an Indiana Jones and a bunch of

1765
01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:37,760
Speaker 2: white peoples dancing around me, like yeah, right, well, you.

1766
01:36:37,800 --> 01:36:40,439
Speaker 4: Know, you know, of course I've always been into film,

1767
01:36:41,400 --> 01:36:44,080
Speaker 4: you know, and like even right now, you know my

1768
01:36:44,200 --> 01:36:47,120
Speaker 4: future project that I'm working on now, I'll tell you

1769
01:36:47,200 --> 01:36:49,360
Speaker 4: about that in a minute. But okay, because I was

1770
01:36:49,400 --> 01:36:51,639
Speaker 4: in the film earlier in my life, I was able

1771
01:36:51,680 --> 01:36:55,280
Speaker 4: to when videos came along, I could process everything that's

1772
01:36:55,320 --> 01:36:58,200
Speaker 4: hot because most of our songs was like a storyboard.

1773
01:36:58,880 --> 01:37:01,439
Speaker 4: And you mentioned Misled. It was about you know, it

1774
01:37:01,479 --> 01:37:04,679
Speaker 4: was basically Coalice's life story. Part of his life story,

1775
01:37:04,680 --> 01:37:08,719
Speaker 4: and my my input, and it was the metaphor of

1776
01:37:08,479 --> 01:37:13,400
Speaker 4: the White Dancer was like she was like the cocaine

1777
01:37:14,240 --> 01:37:18,640
Speaker 4: that people were taking, you know, misleading, looking beautiful and

1778
01:37:18,680 --> 01:37:22,519
Speaker 4: everything and taking you down that rabbit hole, you know.

1779
01:37:23,040 --> 01:37:27,599
Speaker 4: And my nephew who played me as a young kid, Yeah,

1780
01:37:27,640 --> 01:37:30,800
Speaker 4: that was my nephew. Yeah, you know. And so to

1781
01:37:31,160 --> 01:37:34,880
Speaker 4: bring that part in, that was theatrical and the special effects.

1782
01:37:35,120 --> 01:37:37,840
Speaker 4: So and then the one thing that happened on that

1783
01:37:37,960 --> 01:37:39,920
Speaker 4: video was that we said how are we going to

1784
01:37:40,000 --> 01:37:42,320
Speaker 4: get the band in? And I wrote most of that

1785
01:37:42,560 --> 01:37:44,680
Speaker 4: concept and I said, well, you guys are going to

1786
01:37:44,760 --> 01:37:48,519
Speaker 4: be you know, incognito as well. And it's a dream state.

1787
01:37:49,600 --> 01:37:52,200
Speaker 4: So that's why you know that happened, and when we

1788
01:37:52,280 --> 01:37:53,800
Speaker 4: came at the end and they were like j T,

1789
01:37:54,400 --> 01:37:56,080
Speaker 4: we got to go, man, we got a gig to do.

1790
01:37:56,840 --> 01:37:59,040
Speaker 4: They were in the dream and that's when they turned around.

1791
01:37:59,080 --> 01:38:03,479
Speaker 4: So my Michael definitely influenced that as far as the

1792
01:38:03,520 --> 01:38:08,200
Speaker 4: video because remember MTV wasn't playing us, and Michael turned

1793
01:38:08,200 --> 01:38:11,240
Speaker 4: that around. So that's when the whole video thing for

1794
01:38:11,280 --> 01:38:14,599
Speaker 4: black artists started kicking in. And we knew that Michael

1795
01:38:14,640 --> 01:38:17,000
Speaker 4: had raised the bar, So we had to raise the

1796
01:38:17,000 --> 01:38:20,680
Speaker 4: bar because if you remember, on most of the charts,

1797
01:38:21,240 --> 01:38:23,760
Speaker 4: if we knew Michael was coming, we had to get

1798
01:38:23,800 --> 01:38:28,200
Speaker 4: our position first, you know, because came. You know, we're

1799
01:38:28,200 --> 01:38:31,000
Speaker 4: gonna knock you out a number one, but being there

1800
01:38:31,320 --> 01:38:34,080
Speaker 4: in the top five or top ten, that means in

1801
01:38:34,160 --> 01:38:37,120
Speaker 4: the stores your music was right there along inside his

1802
01:38:37,840 --> 01:38:40,439
Speaker 4: and it would help your sales. Yeah, all of that

1803
01:38:40,880 --> 01:38:45,240
Speaker 4: the video world actually helped me with the project I'm

1804
01:38:45,280 --> 01:38:47,240
Speaker 4: doing now and what my future is gonna be?

1805
01:38:47,880 --> 01:38:50,679
Speaker 2: Got it? At the time, do you guys get invited

1806
01:38:50,760 --> 01:38:55,439
Speaker 2: to do band aid? Like, do you have any ankling

1807
01:38:55,479 --> 01:38:57,519
Speaker 2: of the clue what you guys walked into?

1808
01:38:58,240 --> 01:39:00,000
Speaker 4: No, because we were on tour again.

1809
01:39:00,120 --> 01:39:01,479
Speaker 1: I just had a Night off in London.

1810
01:39:03,680 --> 01:39:06,360
Speaker 4: We were actually just I don't know if we I

1811
01:39:06,360 --> 01:39:08,479
Speaker 4: think we did having that off. But the thing that

1812
01:39:08,479 --> 01:39:12,320
Speaker 4: that bothered me was that they had mentioned, i think

1813
01:39:12,400 --> 01:39:14,519
Speaker 4: on the news or something that you know, it was

1814
01:39:14,600 --> 01:39:17,719
Speaker 4: all of these big stars there and when we got

1815
01:39:17,720 --> 01:39:22,240
Speaker 4: there there was no cameras and I remember telling DT,

1816
01:39:22,400 --> 01:39:25,040
Speaker 4: I said, you know it with the press man and

1817
01:39:25,160 --> 01:39:27,439
Speaker 4: all people telling about the press and we walked in.

1818
01:39:28,680 --> 01:39:31,280
Speaker 4: No one said, you know, okay, j T. You're going

1819
01:39:31,320 --> 01:39:33,040
Speaker 4: to be doing this and it's going to be doing that.

1820
01:39:33,200 --> 01:39:34,840
Speaker 4: We kind of just walked in the studio and there

1821
01:39:34,920 --> 01:39:38,320
Speaker 4: was everybody was just sitting around the room and and

1822
01:39:38,360 --> 01:39:41,880
Speaker 4: Phil Collins and and Geldolf and they were behind the

1823
01:39:41,920 --> 01:39:44,880
Speaker 4: board and they just kind of waved and you know,

1824
01:39:45,720 --> 01:39:50,240
Speaker 4: and later on I thought somebody mentioned that they wanted

1825
01:39:50,280 --> 01:39:54,599
Speaker 4: me to do the part that watch a Night thank God,

1826
01:39:55,160 --> 01:39:57,080
Speaker 4: and I didn't. And I'm glad they didn't ask me,

1827
01:39:57,320 --> 01:40:00,439
Speaker 4: because I would have never done that bear line, your

1828
01:40:00,520 --> 01:40:04,439
Speaker 4: Botto's line. Thank God it's you, it's them instead of you.

1829
01:40:04,560 --> 01:40:08,120
Speaker 4: I said, well, no, I would have never sang that anyway,

1830
01:40:09,439 --> 01:40:11,479
Speaker 4: because that's just a little too much for me, you know.

1831
01:40:11,600 --> 01:40:14,479
Speaker 4: I wouldn't thank God, it's you. You know, that's not

1832
01:40:14,560 --> 01:40:17,120
Speaker 4: my vibe, you know what I mean. But yeah, it

1833
01:40:17,479 --> 01:40:20,200
Speaker 4: was awesome, man, But we still didn't know how it

1834
01:40:20,240 --> 01:40:23,439
Speaker 4: was going to come out. I just enjoyed, you know,

1835
01:40:23,520 --> 01:40:26,800
Speaker 4: meet and you know, sting and filled, but it was

1836
01:40:26,840 --> 01:40:29,280
Speaker 4: it was intense. It was like no time to really

1837
01:40:29,600 --> 01:40:32,120
Speaker 4: hang out and talk about it. And when they put

1838
01:40:32,200 --> 01:40:35,120
Speaker 4: us all on the stands together, it was just like, Okay,

1839
01:40:35,120 --> 01:40:36,760
Speaker 4: this is what we're going to sing. We learned the

1840
01:40:36,760 --> 01:40:40,760
Speaker 4: song and we went through the process.

1841
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:43,559
Speaker 2: For you, what was the best, like when you think

1842
01:40:43,600 --> 01:40:46,920
Speaker 2: of like the good times or whatever, like places you played,

1843
01:40:46,960 --> 01:40:50,960
Speaker 2: or even people you met or people that you never

1844
01:40:51,080 --> 01:40:54,680
Speaker 2: thought you meet, what's a career highlight for you of

1845
01:40:54,760 --> 01:40:57,160
Speaker 2: something like like, wow, I can't believe this happened.

1846
01:40:58,280 --> 01:41:04,280
Speaker 6: There's many, but I think going to Africa for the

1847
01:41:04,320 --> 01:41:11,080
Speaker 6: first time was monumental because I remember when we were

1848
01:41:12,400 --> 01:41:15,040
Speaker 6: at House of Music once and this is doing a

1849
01:41:15,080 --> 01:41:17,040
Speaker 6: part time and.

1850
01:41:18,560 --> 01:41:22,719
Speaker 4: This agent came to the studio and asked us to play.

1851
01:41:23,840 --> 01:41:26,639
Speaker 4: And that's when everybody was refusing to place some city.

1852
01:41:26,680 --> 01:41:30,799
Speaker 4: It was part of our protests and I remember looking

1853
01:41:30,840 --> 01:41:35,960
Speaker 4: at this guy almost tearing up that how could he

1854
01:41:36,040 --> 01:41:39,280
Speaker 4: have the nerve to come here and ask us to

1855
01:41:39,400 --> 01:41:44,200
Speaker 4: perform there, knowing the atrocities that were going on, right

1856
01:41:44,640 --> 01:41:49,160
Speaker 4: And I remember we got a silver record I think

1857
01:41:49,240 --> 01:41:53,559
Speaker 4: from South Africa, and when we got it, I said,

1858
01:41:53,560 --> 01:41:56,799
Speaker 4: I refuse to hang this up in my house until

1859
01:41:57,479 --> 01:42:02,439
Speaker 4: Mandela is freed, and I put it in the closet,

1860
01:42:02,840 --> 01:42:06,320
Speaker 4: and when he was freed, I took it out and

1861
01:42:06,600 --> 01:42:10,800
Speaker 4: celebrated that. But I think going to Liberia and then

1862
01:42:10,960 --> 01:42:16,479
Speaker 4: learning about the slave quarters and where our people were

1863
01:42:16,479 --> 01:42:19,559
Speaker 4: brought from the shores and things like that, the Ivory

1864
01:42:19,600 --> 01:42:24,040
Speaker 4: Coast up and down, you know, And I always felt

1865
01:42:24,120 --> 01:42:26,439
Speaker 4: like I didn't want to take money out of there

1866
01:42:27,439 --> 01:42:29,960
Speaker 4: like like I because it wasn't really built up as

1867
01:42:30,040 --> 01:42:32,840
Speaker 4: much like Ghana right like it is now, you know.

1868
01:42:32,920 --> 01:42:36,680
Speaker 4: And I just didn't understand what I understood. But I

1869
01:42:36,720 --> 01:42:41,479
Speaker 4: didn't feel good about doing a concert and taking money

1870
01:42:42,280 --> 01:42:45,479
Speaker 4: from a place that we should have just left it there,

1871
01:42:46,120 --> 01:42:50,439
Speaker 4: you know. But I think Africa was it's still to

1872
01:42:50,479 --> 01:42:53,200
Speaker 4: this day, the feeling I get that touches my heart

1873
01:42:53,320 --> 01:42:58,840
Speaker 4: most one.

1874
01:42:58,960 --> 01:43:01,320
Speaker 2: Congratulations on getting in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

1875
01:43:02,320 --> 01:43:02,880
Speaker 4: Yes, thank you.

1876
01:43:03,200 --> 01:43:06,680
Speaker 1: Were you surprised or were you actively hoping for this?

1877
01:43:07,760 --> 01:43:10,320
Speaker 4: Well? You know, I tell the story. I said, it's

1878
01:43:10,439 --> 01:43:13,160
Speaker 4: when I think back to being at thirteen, you never

1879
01:43:13,320 --> 01:43:16,680
Speaker 4: think about it. You never think about any accolades, at

1880
01:43:16,760 --> 01:43:19,599
Speaker 4: least I did. My whole thing was just a love

1881
01:43:19,640 --> 01:43:23,439
Speaker 4: for music. Man. And you know, when they told us

1882
01:43:23,439 --> 01:43:25,839
Speaker 4: about the rock, of course, I called all my family

1883
01:43:26,200 --> 01:43:29,920
Speaker 4: and I think they announced it on the American Idol

1884
01:43:30,000 --> 01:43:32,320
Speaker 4: or something like that, and we were all sitting around

1885
01:43:32,680 --> 01:43:34,840
Speaker 4: watching waiting for it to come on when they said bam,

1886
01:43:34,920 --> 01:43:37,320
Speaker 4: cool in the Gang. My phone jumping off the hook,

1887
01:43:37,840 --> 01:43:39,880
Speaker 4: people talking about how can I get there? I want

1888
01:43:39,880 --> 01:43:42,040
Speaker 4: to come. We had a lot of family there, but

1889
01:43:42,640 --> 01:43:46,240
Speaker 4: it was just a culmination of all of the years

1890
01:43:46,680 --> 01:43:52,519
Speaker 4: of the sweat, being away from my family, having my

1891
01:43:52,560 --> 01:43:55,960
Speaker 4: family there, enjoying some of it, coming into cooling the gang,

1892
01:43:56,760 --> 01:44:00,880
Speaker 4: and then leaving the group. And also, you know, I

1893
01:44:00,960 --> 01:44:05,240
Speaker 4: brought everything from Hackensack High School to you know, the

1894
01:44:05,320 --> 01:44:09,240
Speaker 4: bands I was in too, you know, Jersey City. Anybody

1895
01:44:09,320 --> 01:44:12,360
Speaker 4: that I met along the way were a part of it.

1896
01:44:12,400 --> 01:44:17,960
Speaker 4: And that's including you, your group, the Philly Sound, Motown Sound,

1897
01:44:17,960 --> 01:44:21,040
Speaker 4: you know anything. It was like I was. It was

1898
01:44:21,080 --> 01:44:23,920
Speaker 4: like I was bringing all of you with me, you know.

1899
01:44:24,000 --> 01:44:26,160
Speaker 4: And then of course you know, to find out that

1900
01:44:26,200 --> 01:44:28,439
Speaker 4: you were going to be with me. I'm like, oh man,

1901
01:44:28,479 --> 01:44:31,000
Speaker 4: this is too good to be true, you know. So

1902
01:44:31,120 --> 01:44:33,160
Speaker 4: you know when I walked up and met you, you know,

1903
01:44:33,200 --> 01:44:36,200
Speaker 4: I was like yo, right in the middle of playing Yo, man,

1904
01:44:36,240 --> 01:44:38,080
Speaker 4: what's up? And I got a good picture. I want

1905
01:44:38,120 --> 01:44:39,519
Speaker 4: to say to you about that too.

1906
01:44:39,720 --> 01:44:42,160
Speaker 2: But I was nervous, man, and like, you know, well

1907
01:44:42,200 --> 01:44:43,000
Speaker 2: you were nervous.

1908
01:44:43,040 --> 01:44:44,360
Speaker 4: Come on, man, you were smacking.

1909
01:44:44,840 --> 01:44:48,320
Speaker 2: No I mean, but just you the only legendary illuminaria

1910
01:44:48,360 --> 01:44:52,080
Speaker 2: of like my Life sound check track that I haven't

1911
01:44:52,479 --> 01:44:53,240
Speaker 2: met yet, you know.

1912
01:44:53,200 --> 01:44:56,479
Speaker 4: What I mean. So, yeah, it was awesome and you

1913
01:44:56,520 --> 01:44:59,160
Speaker 4: guys play man and it was And the thing about it,

1914
01:44:59,160 --> 01:45:01,000
Speaker 4: it was that you wouldn't be leave this that night.

1915
01:45:02,040 --> 01:45:02,679
Speaker 5: That was the week.

1916
01:45:02,720 --> 01:45:06,439
Speaker 4: That week I had some dental work done right, and

1917
01:45:06,479 --> 01:45:08,519
Speaker 4: I had this I don't know if you ever heard

1918
01:45:08,560 --> 01:45:14,360
Speaker 4: of TMJ, but it's when your jaw locks. So that

1919
01:45:14,439 --> 01:45:18,840
Speaker 4: whole night and the performance, I couldn't open my mouth

1920
01:45:18,880 --> 01:45:23,440
Speaker 4: with this much what so I'm singing and in rehearsal,

1921
01:45:23,840 --> 01:45:26,519
Speaker 4: I was actually when I was walking around the stage,

1922
01:45:26,600 --> 01:45:30,080
Speaker 4: was trying to find vowel sounds of how I was

1923
01:45:30,120 --> 01:45:33,040
Speaker 4: going to say certain things. And I couldn't hit like

1924
01:45:33,080 --> 01:45:36,000
Speaker 4: the high notes. Yahoo, if you listen back at it,

1925
01:45:36,160 --> 01:45:39,680
Speaker 4: I couldn't. I couldn't do it. Oh wow, old night.

1926
01:45:39,800 --> 01:45:41,959
Speaker 4: So I was in a little bit of an agony

1927
01:45:42,200 --> 01:45:46,439
Speaker 4: while I was enjoying myself. That's a story nobody could tell, right,

1928
01:45:47,640 --> 01:45:49,760
Speaker 4: I didn't know, man, nobody knew it.

1929
01:45:49,800 --> 01:45:52,439
Speaker 2: You know, we wouldn't have been the Wi wow.

1930
01:45:52,760 --> 01:45:55,679
Speaker 4: But the night was awesome, bro, And it's like it's

1931
01:45:55,680 --> 01:45:57,960
Speaker 4: something that I will you know, treasure forever.

1932
01:45:58,600 --> 01:46:04,000
Speaker 2: Before that night, had you had any contact with cool, Like,

1933
01:46:04,120 --> 01:46:06,880
Speaker 2: was that the first time you guys spoke since the

1934
01:46:06,920 --> 01:46:09,479
Speaker 2: reunion or No?

1935
01:46:09,520 --> 01:46:12,000
Speaker 4: No, the first time was a few years ago when

1936
01:46:12,040 --> 01:46:15,920
Speaker 4: we were inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame, got it.

1937
01:46:16,439 --> 01:46:19,240
Speaker 4: And that was the first time I had seen them

1938
01:46:20,200 --> 01:46:26,680
Speaker 4: and since the early nineties. I still went in there like,

1939
01:46:27,120 --> 01:46:29,599
Speaker 4: you know, just proud of what we had accomplished over

1940
01:46:29,640 --> 01:46:32,240
Speaker 4: the years. And you know, so they all came to

1941
01:46:32,280 --> 01:46:35,720
Speaker 4: me and we spoke and they were cordial and and

1942
01:46:35,760 --> 01:46:38,519
Speaker 4: in fact, Calice came to me and pulled me to

1943
01:46:38,560 --> 01:46:40,800
Speaker 4: the side and said, man, why don't we get back

1944
01:46:40,800 --> 01:46:43,840
Speaker 4: together and do this again? And I was taken back

1945
01:46:43,920 --> 01:46:48,599
Speaker 4: because we did celebration that night, got our award, and

1946
01:46:50,040 --> 01:46:53,400
Speaker 4: you know it, we went our separates and again going

1947
01:46:53,439 --> 01:46:54,960
Speaker 4: back to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. That

1948
01:46:55,040 --> 01:46:57,479
Speaker 4: was the other thing that was kind of bittersweet that,

1949
01:46:58,000 --> 01:47:02,680
Speaker 4: you know, George and all the DT Clifford and they

1950
01:47:02,680 --> 01:47:05,160
Speaker 4: weren't there. And it was like, I'm sitting with their

1951
01:47:05,200 --> 01:47:09,840
Speaker 4: wives and their children, you know, there We're talking and

1952
01:47:09,880 --> 01:47:12,080
Speaker 4: things like this, and you know, I was just a

1953
01:47:12,080 --> 01:47:14,719
Speaker 4: little empty. There was a space there. I was empty,

1954
01:47:14,760 --> 01:47:18,800
Speaker 4: you know. But I hope if they're looking down they

1955
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:22,080
Speaker 4: appreciated what cool and I did along with you know

1956
01:47:22,120 --> 01:47:23,240
Speaker 4: you and the roots as well.

1957
01:47:23,600 --> 01:47:25,120
Speaker 3: What are you working on now?

1958
01:47:25,360 --> 01:47:27,920
Speaker 4: Well, you know the thing right now is I just

1959
01:47:28,160 --> 01:47:31,960
Speaker 4: kind of you know, I was right before COVID hit.

1960
01:47:32,280 --> 01:47:34,840
Speaker 4: You know, I realized I was doing out, going out,

1961
01:47:34,920 --> 01:47:37,519
Speaker 4: doing all these one nighters. You know, money was great

1962
01:47:37,560 --> 01:47:40,840
Speaker 4: and everything, but every day you leave, you know, you

1963
01:47:40,960 --> 01:47:43,560
Speaker 4: come back home, you lose three days, three or four days.

1964
01:47:43,880 --> 01:47:46,040
Speaker 4: And when I was working on I started working on

1965
01:47:46,080 --> 01:47:50,760
Speaker 4: this project with my son who's a filmmaker and a director,

1966
01:47:51,320 --> 01:47:55,160
Speaker 4: and we weren't getting anywhere, and so I said, listen,

1967
01:47:55,200 --> 01:47:58,280
Speaker 4: I got to stop touring. And actually COVID helped me

1968
01:47:58,280 --> 01:48:01,320
Speaker 4: because nobody was really working that much much anyway. So,

1969
01:48:03,200 --> 01:48:05,240
Speaker 4: like I've always done, I said, well, I want to

1970
01:48:05,280 --> 01:48:09,479
Speaker 4: do something that hasn't been done before or something different

1971
01:48:09,600 --> 01:48:14,960
Speaker 4: and include different genres social media, film, music, and make

1972
01:48:15,000 --> 01:48:19,240
Speaker 4: a combination of all of those things and involve people

1973
01:48:19,280 --> 01:48:24,320
Speaker 4: like yourself, you know, your group and different artists from

1974
01:48:24,360 --> 01:48:28,440
Speaker 4: different genres around and include like like the visual effects

1975
01:48:28,439 --> 01:48:31,479
Speaker 4: of things, and you know, to vote all the time

1976
01:48:31,520 --> 01:48:35,200
Speaker 4: to new kind of music and development, you know, and

1977
01:48:35,320 --> 01:48:37,880
Speaker 4: you know it's enhanced my knowledge, you know, or directing

1978
01:48:37,960 --> 01:48:41,120
Speaker 4: and writing in that genre without letting everything out of

1979
01:48:41,160 --> 01:48:43,840
Speaker 4: the bag. It's like, you know, when you're trying to

1980
01:48:43,880 --> 01:48:48,880
Speaker 4: do something that hasn't been done, it takes a lot

1981
01:48:48,920 --> 01:48:51,840
Speaker 4: of attention. You know, you have to go through every

1982
01:48:51,880 --> 01:48:55,360
Speaker 4: little piece. Is not just one creative idea. The idea

1983
01:48:55,520 --> 01:49:00,320
Speaker 4: grew and now we're at a point where we're at

1984
01:49:00,520 --> 01:49:04,840
Speaker 4: I would say the script for example, you know, And

1985
01:49:06,200 --> 01:49:08,719
Speaker 4: all I can say to you is, I will promise

1986
01:49:08,800 --> 01:49:11,920
Speaker 4: to lead you on as we've developed this because it's

1987
01:49:11,960 --> 01:49:14,599
Speaker 4: something that hopefully will you will be.

1988
01:49:14,560 --> 01:49:14,960
Speaker 5: A part of.

1989
01:49:15,600 --> 01:49:18,400
Speaker 4: I'll just ask you straight out, you know. Uh, And

1990
01:49:18,600 --> 01:49:22,240
Speaker 4: I think that it's something that is needed today, because

1991
01:49:22,800 --> 01:49:27,000
Speaker 4: when I listened to some of the music that's out here,

1992
01:49:27,680 --> 01:49:31,680
Speaker 4: it seems like things are either plateaued or just have

1993
01:49:31,960 --> 01:49:34,559
Speaker 4: staged a little stagnant.

1994
01:49:34,400 --> 01:49:35,320
Speaker 2: Little vibrational.

1995
01:49:35,680 --> 01:49:38,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, so we need we need a little something,

1996
01:49:38,840 --> 01:49:40,960
Speaker 4: and you know, U usually over the years, you know,

1997
01:49:41,000 --> 01:49:43,759
Speaker 4: we've had a collective of people doing so many different

1998
01:49:43,800 --> 01:49:46,920
Speaker 4: styles that we could pull from anywhere. You know, Now

1999
01:49:46,960 --> 01:49:49,800
Speaker 4: it just seems like there's some some things that are

2000
01:49:49,880 --> 01:49:52,400
Speaker 4: just not you know, when I listened to it, I'm

2001
01:49:52,400 --> 01:49:56,559
Speaker 4: not being fed as much. So right, you know, six

2002
01:49:56,720 --> 01:50:01,000
Speaker 4: years of like revising this this project. You know, I'm

2003
01:50:01,080 --> 01:50:02,800
Speaker 4: kind of looking at some things that I wrote down,

2004
01:50:03,840 --> 01:50:07,680
Speaker 4: combining like the meters of music and films. But it's like,

2005
01:50:09,160 --> 01:50:12,000
Speaker 4: how can I explain this? It will be something that

2006
01:50:12,080 --> 01:50:17,840
Speaker 4: will be future, but something with grassroots of the arts, Okay,

2007
01:50:17,920 --> 01:50:21,080
Speaker 4: something I think that everyone will be able to relate to.

2008
01:50:21,840 --> 01:50:26,000
Speaker 2: All I gotta say is, man, you are in the

2009
01:50:26,040 --> 01:50:27,599
Speaker 2: highest sense of the term of class act.

2010
01:50:27,640 --> 01:50:27,800
Speaker 4: Man.

2011
01:50:28,000 --> 01:50:31,000
Speaker 2: You just you know, I'm so glad you got your flowers.

2012
01:50:31,000 --> 01:50:34,880
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you got recognition. And that's often hard,

2013
01:50:35,000 --> 01:50:40,800
Speaker 2: especially for a lot of our brothers and sisters who

2014
01:50:41,600 --> 01:50:46,519
Speaker 2: are pioneers, our leaders, and oftentimes their artwork is taken

2015
01:50:46,520 --> 01:50:50,400
Speaker 2: for granted and they're not given the proper respect you

2016
01:50:50,479 --> 01:50:52,160
Speaker 2: and you are that person, man.

2017
01:50:53,040 --> 01:50:56,320
Speaker 4: I appreciate that, you know, and those artists that you

2018
01:50:56,479 --> 01:51:02,559
Speaker 4: mentioned you deserve to be heard, they deserve to to

2019
01:51:02,640 --> 01:51:04,960
Speaker 4: have that like that, that renaissance, you know.

2020
01:51:05,640 --> 01:51:05,840
Speaker 5: Uh.

2021
01:51:05,880 --> 01:51:08,240
Speaker 4: And and I really think that this project, you know,

2022
01:51:08,960 --> 01:51:11,360
Speaker 4: I'm going to do that and listen before we be

2023
01:51:11,479 --> 01:51:13,280
Speaker 4: in this, man, There's so much more to talk about,

2024
01:51:13,320 --> 01:51:15,960
Speaker 4: but I just first want to, you know, congratulate you

2025
01:51:16,040 --> 01:51:16,920
Speaker 4: on a summer soul.

2026
01:51:17,439 --> 01:51:17,760
Speaker 2: Thank you.

2027
01:51:17,800 --> 01:51:21,519
Speaker 4: By Hey, bro, were's that Oscar? Man? I'm looking for

2028
01:51:21,560 --> 01:51:23,960
Speaker 4: that goal. Look behind you over there and put that

2029
01:51:24,040 --> 01:51:25,120
Speaker 4: statue up behind you.

2030
01:51:26,160 --> 01:51:28,519
Speaker 1: This is my office, man, I keep my Oscar at home.

2031
01:51:28,600 --> 01:51:31,760
Speaker 4: But yeah, well this is gonna be another one, bro.

2032
01:51:32,040 --> 01:51:35,240
Speaker 4: I mean it was. It was really so well put together, man.

2033
01:51:35,280 --> 01:51:37,400
Speaker 4: And like the way you when you brought in the

2034
01:51:37,439 --> 01:51:39,800
Speaker 4: people from Halem, you know, telling their stories, the way

2035
01:51:39,880 --> 01:51:42,800
Speaker 4: you interplayed that with the music, it was like it

2036
01:51:42,840 --> 01:51:45,479
Speaker 4: was like a story book. It was magical. Man. You

2037
01:51:45,479 --> 01:51:49,679
Speaker 4: you have a special gift with that. And as I said,

2038
01:51:49,800 --> 01:51:51,719
Speaker 4: you know, with the special that you're doing, I think

2039
01:51:52,160 --> 01:51:54,320
Speaker 4: it's It's great to hear because it kind of leads

2040
01:51:54,360 --> 01:51:56,120
Speaker 4: into what we're what we're doing.

2041
01:51:55,920 --> 01:51:59,000
Speaker 3: Now, I want to say some sort of an announcement

2042
01:51:59,200 --> 01:52:02,639
Speaker 3: of my own. I've done the math JT. And since

2043
01:52:02,640 --> 01:52:05,680
Speaker 3: you've technically technically technically appeared at the most of bar

2044
01:52:05,720 --> 01:52:10,160
Speaker 3: Mitzvah's in the history of bar Mitzvah, I am announcing

2045
01:52:10,240 --> 01:52:14,120
Speaker 3: that you have been declared an honorary Jew and you

2046
01:52:14,120 --> 01:52:16,240
Speaker 3: can consider yourself bar Mitzvah.

2047
01:52:16,360 --> 01:52:18,160
Speaker 4: All right, do I have to have to learn my

2048
01:52:18,640 --> 01:52:19,519
Speaker 4: speeks and everything.

2049
01:52:20,240 --> 01:52:22,480
Speaker 3: You're part of the Hebrew persuasion.

2050
01:52:23,720 --> 01:52:24,120
Speaker 4: There you go.

2051
01:52:24,560 --> 01:52:26,920
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, brother for doing this podcast. And

2052
01:52:27,520 --> 01:52:30,759
Speaker 2: you know on behalf of the family. Answer to Steve

2053
01:52:31,280 --> 01:52:35,439
Speaker 2: this Quest Love brother James, J T. Taylor one and only.

2054
01:52:35,760 --> 01:52:38,639
Speaker 4: Thank you so much, love you, Thank you guys, appreciate it.

2055
01:52:39,360 --> 01:52:40,040
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

2056
01:52:40,120 --> 01:52:40,360
Speaker 5: J T.

2057
01:52:40,520 --> 01:52:40,720
Speaker 4: That was.

2058
01:52:42,680 --> 01:52:44,920
Speaker 3: This is Sugar Steve. Thank you for listening to Quest

2059
01:52:44,920 --> 01:52:48,160
Speaker 3: Love Supreme. This podcast is hosted by a Mere quest

2060
01:52:48,160 --> 01:52:51,719
Speaker 3: Love Thompson, Lijah Saint Clair Sugar, Steve Mandel, and unpaid

2061
01:52:51,720 --> 01:52:55,719
Speaker 3: Bill Sherman. The executive producers are a Mere Quest Love Thompson,

2062
01:52:55,760 --> 01:53:00,519
Speaker 3: Sean g and Brian Calhoun. Produced by Britney, Benjamin Payne

2063
01:53:00,520 --> 01:53:01,679
Speaker 3: and Liiah Saint Clair.

2064
01:53:02,760 --> 01:53:06,960
Speaker 2: Edited by Alex Conroy. Produced for iHeart by Noel Brown.

2065
01:53:10,320 --> 01:53:14,080
Speaker 1: What's Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

2066
01:53:16,720 --> 01:53:21,480
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

2067
01:53:21,600 --> 01:53:23,480
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.