1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: Hello, snaff universe. It is I Ed Helms, your ever 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: dutiful captain, steering this ship straight into the iceberg of 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: history's biggest screw ups. And this week we're going live, baby, 4 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: well sort of. I mean, you're not going to be 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 1: listening to something that's happening live, but it is a 6 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 1: recording of a thing that was live, you know what 7 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: I mean? 8 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 2: All Right? 9 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: So, during my book tour for Snafu, The Definitive Guide 10 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: to History's Greatest screw Ups, I had the absolute pleasure 11 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: of stopping by the legendary ninety second Street Why in 12 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: New York City, where I got to sit down with 13 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: a dear old friend who also happens to be an 14 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: Emmy winning comedian, producer, writer, and professional destroyer of pomposity. 15 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: I am talking about none other than the great Samantha B. 16 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: Sam and I go all the way back to our 17 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: daily show days, which feels like roughly four hundred years 18 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: ago in time. So it was really a joy to 19 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: just hang out and reminisce about the salad days and 20 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: also dig into some juicy stuff, you know, like the 21 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: decades of epics screw ups I write about in the book, 22 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: How the book actually came together, and even some reflections 23 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: on how the screw ups in the book might inform 24 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: how we navigate the present moment. And doing all of 25 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: this live on stage in front of a fired up 26 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: New York crowd, it just gave the whole night a 27 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: kind of electric buzz and it was just an absolute treat. 28 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: So stick around for my conversation with sam B. And Hey, 29 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: if you're in the market for a gift that's equal 30 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: parts history, lesson, comedy show and stocking stuffer, look no 31 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: further than my book, Snafoo, The Definitive Guide to History's 32 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: Greatest screw Ups. It's available at snafoo, dashbook dot com 33 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: or wherever fine books are sold. The audiobook, narrated by 34 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: Yours Truly is also out. Now think of that as 35 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: kind of cozy little ear muffs for your brain, only 36 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: instead of warmth, they're packed with shocking blunders and questionable 37 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: decision making. Okay, that's it now, please enjoy my chat 38 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:16,679 Speaker 1: with the brilliant Samantha B. 39 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 2: All right, this is. 40 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 3: So oh my god, this cheer is so comfortable. I 41 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 3: had no idea the cheers would be so amazing. 42 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it's good because I just came from my 43 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: YMCA workout. 44 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 3: That's right, I'm so sweaty. 45 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 4: I'm so excited to be here with you. 46 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 3: Because I miss you, although I haven't seen you in 47 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 3: ages ed when you asked me to do this talk 48 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 3: with you, I could not have been more excited. I 49 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 3: love everything that you do. I love Snaffoo. I love 50 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 3: the podcast. If you don't know what you really should like, 51 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 3: download like subscribe all those. 52 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,119 Speaker 4: Where we get your podcast wherever we get your podcasts. 53 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 3: Okay, the world is bananas basically, yes, So. 54 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 4: Thank you for writing a book. 55 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 2: I'm had to point it out about how the world. 56 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,119 Speaker 4: Yes, the world was always. 57 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 3: Bananas, is what I'm hearing from this book. Yeah, so 58 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 3: the book is called Snaffoo. Tell us right off the bat, 59 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 3: what is a snaffoo? What does that acronym stand for? 60 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: Well, snapfoo it was an acronym that started during World 61 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: War Two. It stands for situation, normal, all fucked up, great, 62 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: and most of us know it just as a term 63 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: that means disaster or terrible situation or a pickle. 64 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 2: Maybe it would be a lighter usage. 65 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: Yes, and yeah, the soldiers used it because I guess 66 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: World War two is pretty fucked up and and it 67 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: became just sort of a catchy, catchy phrase that made 68 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: it into the lexicons. 69 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 4: It's a little bit like fubar. It's a little bit 70 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 4: like fubar. 71 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: It's exactly like fubar, which I think and I haven't done. 72 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: I haven't done the research, but I think came from 73 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: the same time. 74 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 4: Same time, upped up beyond all repair. 75 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 2: You know. 76 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 4: No, it's not. 77 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 2: It's got a little more punched here. 78 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 4: They're both very good. Okay, so okay. 79 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 3: It's the definitive guide to history's greatest scripts. And I 80 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 3: have to say that it was a soothing like It's 81 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 3: pretty bizarre that a book that contains many stories about 82 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 3: us on the precipice of nuclear meltdown actually cheered me up. 83 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 4: And I think that that says a lot about where 84 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 4: we are. 85 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 3: So we've got you know, one of the first, one 86 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 3: of the first stories in the book is about a 87 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 3: fun toy set for kids called the Gilbert Atomic Energy 88 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 3: Science Kit that contained really uranium. You all haven't read 89 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 3: the book yet, but you're about to, and it's excellent. 90 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 4: We've got nuclear reactors melting. 91 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 3: Down, we've got apps with spy equipment implanted into. 92 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 4: Their ears, Howard Hughes related giant plow machines, retrieving Russian subs. 93 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:09,679 Speaker 4: It's excellent. 94 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 3: Okay, was it difficult to narrow down all of the 95 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 3: world's fuck ups into only one volume? 96 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 4: Because I feel like it's kind of endless? 97 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 2: Great question, thank you. 98 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: Yes, which is why I kind of just kind of 99 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: put some parameters on the whole thing, just the curatorial 100 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: decision making boiled down to. It's mostly American stories. It's 101 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,799 Speaker 1: also mostly recent. 102 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 2: The book is. 103 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: Divided up into sections by decade. Yes, so it's it's 104 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: basically the fifties to now, So that's a pretty small 105 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: window for human volleys. There's a lot of other stuff 106 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: that people did that was dumb. 107 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 3: These blunders, these bad ideas are epic. Many of them 108 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 3: are potentially world ending, but so many of them are 109 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 3: childish and silly. 110 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 2: I love Yes, I love that observation. 111 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 4: Childish. 112 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 3: They're like, should we detonate a nuclear bomb on the moon? 113 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 2: This is this is full loony tunes. That's that's a 114 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 2: chapter in the book. 115 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 4: Yes. 116 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 2: Just to give you another little bit of. 117 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: A sort of structural breakdown, there are thirty one chapters 118 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: that are sort of that are divided up into decades 119 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: and each chapter is its own snaff woo, which makes 120 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: it great for just like episodic reading. 121 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 2: You could just pick it up. 122 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: Yes, leave it on your toilet. I won't judge you. 123 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: If you're reading. It's good anywhere. 124 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 3: Tell me about Okay, So the podcast that you do 125 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 3: snafoo the book. The format of the book differs from 126 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 3: the podcast because the podcast is like one big deep 127 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 3: die anyone else shaking through the Yes, the subways. 128 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: I've been living in La too long. I'm like earthquake earth. 129 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: Oh no, I forget that. That ninety second three y 130 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: and the Angelica film theater Rattle with the trains. 131 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 3: That's right, you know that every time I go to 132 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 3: every time I go to La, I've experienced a minor 133 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 3: earthquake every time I go. I'm a harbinger of doom, 134 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 3: just like a tiny little you are. 135 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 4: I know. 136 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 3: Well, so what I'm saying is that was an earthquake. 137 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 4: Yeah. 138 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 3: What what is the difference between the podcast process, which 139 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 3: is very long form and I mean it's long form 140 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 3: to write a book, but it's more chapterized. So what 141 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 3: is the difference between the process of doing those two things? 142 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: So the podcast came first We started working on the 143 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: podcast about three years ago, and it's it is a 144 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: very different thing because it's each season of the podcast 145 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: is a very deep dive into one thing, one snafu. 146 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: So so there are now three seasons of the podcast 147 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: out and uh, it's each season is eight episodes and 148 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: again deep dive into one thing. And the book, as 149 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: I just described, is lots of things perfect less of 150 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: a deep dive. 151 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 4: Perfect for the bathroom. 152 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, describe, let's talk more about how perfect it is 153 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: for bathroom. But the process for building both of these 154 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: things is not dissimilar, because it's an amazing team or 155 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: that worked on both. 156 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 3: So about your team, because this is an incredible I mean, 157 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 3: these people must be professional. Is it a group of historians, 158 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 3: professional researchers, fact checkers. 159 00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 2: Like podcast nerds? 160 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 3: Podcast nerds is a team of how damn nerds? 161 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 4: Much there? 162 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: This is an amazing team researchers and and just pulling 163 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: together so much information, helping structure information. 164 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 3: How do you, I mean, how do you as a team, 165 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 3: how do you curate the stories that you want to tell? 166 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 4: How do you decide? 167 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 2: How? 168 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 4: What is the research process? 169 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: Like it's building a pool of possibilities pouring through them. 170 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 2: And then in the case of. 171 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: The in the case of the podcast, it's it's like, 172 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: do we have the depth, does this story have the 173 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: depth to carry a whole season? And then do we 174 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: have access to the materials or the people that we 175 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: want to talk to? 176 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 2: And uh. And then for the book. 177 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: Again we it was it was a matter of finding 178 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: these sort of organizing principles or or like kind of 179 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: cure itorial limitations that that would guide a little bit 180 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: of decision making. Ultimately, the other the other critical component 181 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: to both the podcast and the book has been are 182 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 1: these stories really well known or not? And the book 183 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: avoids things like the Titanic or you know, the Donner 184 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: Party or things that which which are actually amazing and 185 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: like just epic stories that are incredible to learn about. 186 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: But I think what makes what we made a decision 187 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: early on to kind of like chase things that are 188 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: less known to the popular memory. Yes, and that I 189 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 1: think has really been an exciting thing about the podcast 190 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: and and and the book. A lot of these things 191 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: people just don't. 192 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 4: Know, They really don't know. 193 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 3: I many of the stories were surprising to me, and 194 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 3: so many of the stories actually have a modern a 195 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 3: really modern relevance. I mean, I'm sure you could not 196 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 3: have expected this when you were curating the book, that 197 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 3: we would be talking so much about Greenland right now. 198 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 3: And there is an amazing story about Greenland in the book. 199 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 3: And I really had no idea. And it not only 200 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 3: is a very interesting story about something we knew very 201 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 3: little about, but is it kind of an origin story 202 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 3: about the United States and their relationship to Greenland and Denmark? 203 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 4: Can you talk about that? 204 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So there's an entire chapter dedicated to Project 205 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: ice Worm. 206 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 2: So, and you're right, it's so wild how prescient it is, because. 207 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: As early as the nineteen fifties, it was very clear 208 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: that Greenland was strategically excellent for launching missiles. And so 209 00:11:53,800 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: Project ice Worm is exactly what it sounds like. Greenland 210 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: is a giant sheet of ice. So someone hatched. 211 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 2: The idea, well, what if we could build. 212 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: A railroad system underneath the Greenland ice sheet and fairy 213 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: missiles around and launched them from wherever we wanted. 214 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 2: In Greenland? 215 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 4: What great idea? 216 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 1: Great, I mean, a flawless ideas. So they opened up 217 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: Camp Century, which was a sort of military a US 218 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: military installation that had some cover stories, but was essentially 219 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: a research project to see if this was feasible. And 220 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: they put a nuclear reactor in it because they needed 221 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: power and everybody loved nuclear stuff in the fifties. And 222 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: they started to build basically an army base under the ice, 223 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: and then they started digging tunnels to see if they 224 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 1: could get train tracks out, you. 225 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 2: Know, across the whole country. 226 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 1: And needless to say, ice is an unstable. 227 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 2: Structural shift. 228 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's uh, so many things went wrong. They realized 229 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: that that the breathing that people were doing was accumulating. 230 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: The moisture from people's breath was adding to the thickness 231 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: of the ice over time, and so the walls were 232 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: shifting constantly. The ceilings were they basically installed. They dug 233 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: out these massive holes and then installed prefab structures like 234 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: kind of like. 235 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 4: Prefram structures and nuclear reactor. 236 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 2: And a nuclear nuclear reactor just. 237 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: For just for funds, and the the the Danish government 238 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: was like, you know what, you guys are cool, just 239 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: don't tell us what's up. 240 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 4: We do not want to know. 241 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it just none of it worked. 242 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 2: No, none of it worked. 243 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: And sadly now there is still a ton of nuclear 244 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: waste and a ton of human waste because they just 245 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: dug a giant pit in the ice for all the soldiers' 246 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: bathroom activity, right, which is a great place to read. 247 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 4: My it's a great place to pick up a book. 248 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 3: And so essentially the subway rumbling that we felt that 249 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 3: was so minor was just constantly happening under the ice 250 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 3: as people were living and working, and nobody really knew 251 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 3: what the outcome was. Eventually they took everything out, but 252 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 3: now we have a long legacy. 253 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: Well now there's a lot of nuclear waste frozen under 254 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: the ice and people got sick from that local Greenland, 255 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: indigenous people and it was tragic. And there is also 256 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: just all of that human waste, and it's a lot 257 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: is frozen and global warming will reveal it and it's 258 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: one of one of the things global warming will do 259 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: that's bad. 260 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 3: I feel great because I feel that when we purchase Greenland, 261 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 3: which is going flawlessly, we'll probably clean it up because 262 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 3: we have a really good track record of that, right. 263 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, a hundred Actually, as soon as it's ours, 264 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: we probably will. 265 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 4: We probably. 266 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, it really takes a lot of promises. 267 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: Were made that it would get cleaned up and it 268 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: never did. 269 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 3: And of course, yeah, actually talking, I mean on the 270 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 3: subject of global warming. There's a really great, pretty short 271 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 3: chapter about the ozone layer in the in the kind 272 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 3: of section on the nineteen eighties, and it was it's 273 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 3: a great reminder that scientific consensus is possible, and sometimes 274 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 3: we act in our own best interests after tremendous you know, 275 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 3: tremendous push and pull, but sometimes we can get there. 276 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 3: Does that feel realistic anymore? I'll show myself out. 277 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: I hadn't thought of that story in that context that 278 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you made that connection, because that really 279 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: is that that is a great example of like seeing 280 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: a problem, understanding the problem, and then actually pushing hard 281 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: against industrial interests to fix that problem. 282 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 2: And it worked. It really worked. 283 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 3: And that's not to say that it wasn't a complicated 284 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 3: journey to get there, and I'm sure it took a 285 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 3: long time, but there was a kind of a sense 286 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 3: that you could harness people's personal activity and people. 287 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 4: You could tell people, population would act. 288 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: You could actually inform people that maybe things were bad 289 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 1: or unhealthy for them or the world right, and they 290 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: might listen. 291 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 4: Oh dear, any. 292 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 3: Way, One thing that this is more this is more 293 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 3: a comment than a question, is that the book is 294 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 3: it's very funny, and it's of course it's like it's chilling, 295 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 3: but it's very interesting. But it is a great reminder 296 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 3: that the world is now, but it has always been 297 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 3: a scary place with incompetence and institutional chaos and insane ideas. 298 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 4: Those are forever. 299 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 3: I feel like it's happening at. 300 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 4: A speed, like a real a velocity that is. 301 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 3: Really frightening right now in particular. And what really strikes 302 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 3: me about many of the stories in the book is 303 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 3: that all of this, like subterrifusion, all these crazy ideas 304 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 3: really happen behind the scenes, like behind a very secretive 305 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 3: and we just learned about them by accident. Someone's going 306 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 3: through Carl Sagan's old applications for grants and they're like, hey, 307 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 3: what now, what are you're reading? 308 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 4: Is this real? 309 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 3: But we're seeing so much incompetence so openly, can you? 310 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 2: I guess, I mean, that's your opinion, that's my. 311 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 3: Opinion true, And I just wonder if we want to 312 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 3: take a minute and consider what we're going to find 313 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 3: out in the future about what was happening now. 314 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, you're right. 315 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: This is a what's what feels different right now is 316 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: how transparent the incompetence is or seems to be. 317 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 2: But that also like we're probably just. 318 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: Seeing that the top ten percent of the iceberg, right, 319 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: and it will be decades of unfolding insanity. There are 320 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: a few threads that I think emerge in studying these 321 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: things things. 322 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and one is one. 323 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 1: That I mean hubris obviously, and the secrecy is a 324 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: big one that you just mentioned. 325 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 2: Another one is. 326 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 1: The the the group think of a close of people 327 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: in a closed. 328 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:27,919 Speaker 2: Bubble, right, And that's what that's what happens in. 329 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: Like institutions like the CIA or the FBI. Season two 330 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 1: of the podcast is a deep dive into an incredible 331 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: story about citizen activists in the seventies who broke into Basically, 332 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: they felt that the FBI was being very dastardly surveilling people, 333 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: harassing people, encroaching civil liberties. 334 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 2: But who do you go to when law enforcement is 335 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 2: out of line? 336 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: And also at the time, Jadegar Hoover was the head 337 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: of the FBI and an American hero. Everybody loved him, 338 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: which was a very curated image. He was very deep 339 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: into kind of manipulation of pop culture. He was involved 340 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: with movies that starred Jimmy Stewart, as you know, the 341 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: ideal FBI. 342 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 2: Agent and so forth. 343 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: But these activists realized that they had one option, which 344 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: was to somehow infiltrate. 345 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 2: They decided to stage. 346 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: An elaborate heist, and they, at insane personal risk to 347 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: themselves and their families, broke into an FBI office in Media, 348 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania and stole all the files. And that was at 349 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: a time when this we didn't have hard drives, so 350 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: most branch offices of the FBI had most FBI files, 351 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: and they took everything and they poured through it, and 352 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: they found actual documentation and evidence of some of this 353 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:19,120 Speaker 1: horrible malfeasance that Jadegar Hoover's was up to. And they 354 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: sent it to a number of congress people and reporters 355 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: and most of them chickened out. 356 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 2: One person. 357 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: Published those papers, and I think she is in the 358 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: audience tonight too, and it's Washington Post reporter Betty Metzger. 359 00:21:38,440 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 2: And all that that gave me chills. 360 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it's an incredible story of citizen activism and 361 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: heroism and and people putting themselves at risk for just 362 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 1: to do the right thing, and it led to the 363 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: fallout was incredible. 364 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 2: It led to. 365 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: The exposure of co intel pro, which was Hoover's counterintelligence program, 366 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: which was basically an institutional harassment of so many different groups, 367 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:43,959 Speaker 1: civil rights activists, anti war activists, and others. And and 368 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: it led to the to the church hearings, which is 369 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: the only reason we now have any congressional oversight over 370 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: all of these intelligence agencies. The n Essay, the CIA, 371 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: the FBI. I don't know how much good that's doing. 372 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 1: I still have that, but here's what But here's here's 373 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: what's I think also incredible about that story and this 374 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:17,439 Speaker 1: moment is that we're in a moment where the FBI 375 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: feels like a political tool again. 376 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 2: But the keyword is again. You know it really it was. 377 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: It was a terrifying institution through j Edgar Hoover's epic reign. 378 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: I mean, he was in charge of the FBI for 379 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: so long and and and used it just for so 380 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: many petty grievances and so forth. And it feels like 381 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: we're getting there, if not already there. 382 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 2: Again. 383 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: I don't mean to say this in a way that 384 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 1: diminishes the sort of terror. 385 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 2: Of the moment or. 386 00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: The the intensity of the moment. But what that JEdgar 387 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 1: Hoover's story shows us is that there can be light 388 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: at the end of the tunnel. 389 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 3: You do say that in the intro to the book 390 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 3: that you sort of see the book as a force 391 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 3: for optimism in a very chaotic world, which feels kind 392 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 3: of counterintuitive, but I see, I take the point we 393 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:25,239 Speaker 3: have made. We have majorly blundered in the past, and 394 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 3: we have the force of human good has prevailed. 395 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a choice to see things that way. It's 396 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: almost like, but I think it's a good choice. But 397 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 1: I do think that what these blunders and face plants 398 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: and terrible snapfoos throughout history show us is is a 399 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: resilience also, right, and a kind of like tendency towards 400 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: equilibrium of some kind. 401 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 4: Right does it? 402 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 3: How much does it frighten you that our civic edge 403 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 3: cation is so inadequate? Like I feel that people just 404 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 3: don't really understand the function of government. I'm not saying 405 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 3: the people in this room, we all know what the 406 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 3: function of government is, but I feel like that's a 407 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 3: there's a really there's a missing piece right now, and 408 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 3: that it's not really Todden's schools. 409 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, no question. I think. 410 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: Look, I mean, the rise of a strong man is 411 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: generally the function of of of an anxious population and 412 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 1: a population that is not that isn't rooted in in. 413 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 2: The fundamentals of. 414 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: Civil society and the process of civil society, and and 415 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: a and a in our case, a constitutional democracy and 416 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: what And I'm just agreeing with you. 417 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 4: Yes, we're disagreeing with each other. 418 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 2: But I will say, the. 419 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: Other great thing about read about so so studying snaffoos 420 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: can and be a little bit uplifting for the reasons 421 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: we just discussed. The other reason that studying staff who's 422 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: can feel really good is that you get to say. 423 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 2: Man, I'm not that dumb. 424 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: I feel a lot better about a lot of your 425 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: own life choices. 426 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 4: This is again, this is not a question, but I 427 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 4: wrote this down. 428 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,360 Speaker 3: Much of our history is very stupid. Are we condemned 429 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 3: to repeat our stupid history? I think maybe no, of course. 430 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 1: I mean that's the one thing, oh, that we know 431 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: for sure, is that we never we never learned from history. 432 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: I think human enlightenment is not a straight line. It's 433 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: a game of shoots and ladders and you're just constantly 434 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 1: there's a step forward. Oh shit, I fell down the 435 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: slide and I'm going backwards again, and it just you know, 436 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: we have these huge stumbles, and unfortunately there the cost 437 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: is tremendous human suffering. And I hope, I well it's 438 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: I don't I don't know where we're Well, you know what. 439 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 3: We could talk about cats with microphones embedded in their cat? 440 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 2: Can we talk more about human suffering? 441 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:13,360 Speaker 4: Can we. 442 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 2: Please? 443 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 4: Okay? 444 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,479 Speaker 3: I do want to I do want to say that 445 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 3: every time I read something about cats with embedded implanted 446 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,880 Speaker 3: listening devices and pigeons with backpacks. 447 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, with aerial photography. That's pretty cute, that's pretty cute. 448 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,239 Speaker 1: They put little camera pouches on pigeons to turn them 449 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 1: into spies. 450 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 4: To turn them into pigeons spies. Yeah, And you know, 451 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 4: cats make. 452 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 3: The best spies because they're so incredibly trainable and they 453 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 3: listen to everything you say and they go exactly where 454 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 3: you want them to go and do exactly as they're told. 455 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, just ask Siegfried and Roy. 456 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 2: They're not trainable. 457 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: This is like like anybody knows that. And this is 458 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: this is where that like Bubble Group think of like 459 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: just somebody who didn't have dozen't no cats, was like, hey, 460 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 1: they're they're very sneaky and sly. If we can implant 461 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,479 Speaker 1: a microphone in their ears and train them to go 462 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: sit next to bad guys, yeah, then we'll be able 463 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: to hear what the bad guys are saying. This is 464 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: another chapter. Sorry, this is this is a chapter from 465 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 1: the book. There's teams of adult people workshopping these ideas. 466 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: Is spending taxpayer dollars to put these ideas on a whiteboard, 467 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: and everybody's backslapping and going, great idea, Hank, I love this. 468 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: In the book, there's a there's a section of five 469 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: of the six hundred and thirty four attempts by the 470 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: CIA to assassinate Fidel Castro. 471 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 2: Yes. Now, the. 472 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: A lot of them didn't necessarily get past the drag board, 473 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: but there there is a record of them. And at 474 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:12,719 Speaker 1: what point, uh, like, that's a comedy writer's room. I mean, 475 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,959 Speaker 1: the ideas are so nuts. There was one idea to 476 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: put thallium salts in his shoes, which is a specific, 477 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: certain kind of poison toxin to the human body that 478 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: will make your hair fall out. Why is that advantageous? Well, 479 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: the theory that. The thinking was that'll make his beard 480 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: fall out, and the beard is what really tethers him 481 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: to leadership in the in the Cuban culture, and without 482 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: his beard, he'll be dethroned and humiliated. Like the steps, 483 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: like it's so rude Goldberg just to get get from 484 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: a to and then maybe he'll he'll get overthrown because 485 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: his beard fell out. 486 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 3: That's a really that's like, that's really long game thinking, 487 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 3: like will step by step, hair by hair, we will 488 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 3: destroy his manliness. 489 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 2: It's going to take a minute, but it's we're going 490 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 2: to get there. 491 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 4: Oh my god. 492 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 3: Okay, there's a season three of the podcast and these 493 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 3: are really these are such complimentary endeavors. But the I'm 494 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 3: listening to season three of the podcast now and it 495 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 3: is built around a story I really have never heard before. 496 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 3: It takes place during Prohibition, and the story is really 497 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 3: about the government poisoning the industrial alcohol supply. And it's 498 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 3: a really fascinating story. 499 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:41,719 Speaker 4: Can you talk about that a little bit? 500 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: It's really Yeah, so everybody knows prohibition, it's part of 501 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: our collective memory. I was pretty resistant to this story 502 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: because I was like, everyone knows prohibition. Everybody you know, 503 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: like is this really that of a deal. But the 504 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: more we dug into it, it. 505 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 2: Was like, oh, this is this is this is horrible. 506 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: Well, during probition, the consumer alcohol supply was eliminated, so 507 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: bootleggers would start to pull from the industrial alcohol supply, 508 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: but most of that alcohol had been through a process 509 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: called denaturing, which is basically the government adding things to 510 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: alcohol to make it extremely yucky and just not palatable 511 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: and maybe even give you a tummy ache. And that 512 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: was for a long time enough, but bootleggers were very, 513 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: very driven, and so they for figuring out ways to 514 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: sort of work around that. Also, people were just drinking 515 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: it anyway and getting sick. But then as part of 516 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: the prohibition effort, they thought, well, maybe if we can 517 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: deter like, what are some ways we can deter people 518 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: from drinking. Oh, let's let's make the industrial alcohol supply 519 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: like fully poisonous, fully poisonous to point where it will 520 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: anyone who drinks it like will get severely ill or die. 521 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: And that that will be great because then people will 522 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: start dying and they'll be like, well. 523 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 2: I shouldn't drink anymore because that's how people behave. This 524 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 2: is and thousands of people. 525 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 4: Died, thousands of people died. 526 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 3: Did anybody experience consequences based on this? 527 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 4: No, not at all. 528 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 2: No, and it was fully exposed. 529 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 4: Fully exposed. 530 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know that is actually another theme that really 531 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 3: emerged for me is that we are not consequence oriented people. 532 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 3: A lot of people who had ideas that were this 533 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 3: bad that resulted in tragedy or near tragedy just sort 534 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 3: of got other jobs yep, or failed upward. We're not anyway, 535 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 3: We're not big on consequences. 536 00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 4: We all know that. 537 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 3: Now. Are their favorite stories that you tossed about in 538 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 3: the writer's room, which you must have so much fun 539 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 3: in your rooms, Like they sound. 540 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 4: Really raucous, Like they sound really interesting. 541 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: It's mostly zooms, mostly zooms virtual. 542 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 2: It's hard to be roucous on a zoom. 543 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 4: I guess that's true. Are their favorite stories that you 544 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 4: had to leave out? There must be so. 545 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 3: Many more stories in your arsenal. Do you have a 546 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 3: volume of twenty bucks lined up? 547 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 2: Yes? 548 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 4: One? 549 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: Well, yes, there are hopefully mini books to come tell 550 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: all your friends about it so it sells really well. Yeah, 551 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: and I can just keep churning these out. But the 552 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 1: ones that fell by the wayside, tended to be tended 553 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: to just not meet the criteria, which would be mostly 554 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: things that are too well known. 555 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 2: So and then I think once we found a good. 556 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: Number, we were like, okay, let's it's just time to. 557 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 2: Start the research. 558 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 3: I liked that you covered mk Ultra, which is a 559 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 3: story that people. 560 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,240 Speaker 1: That's that's probably one of the most well known stories 561 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 1: in here, that in the Suez Canal uh containers. 562 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,800 Speaker 3: But but you did, but you did cover an angle 563 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 3: of mk Ultra that I did not know anything about. 564 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 3: So it is in a in a kind of a 565 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 3: familiar story there is. It is a kind of a 566 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 3: side story in a larger story. Can you talk about 567 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 3: that one? 568 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 4: It's very interesting. 569 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, the mk Ultra, for those of you who 570 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:39,800 Speaker 1: don't know, was the thank you so much. I guess 571 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: that's the the queue that. 572 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 3: Were your transition is that. 573 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 4: Of question U M. 574 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 2: K Ultra is a really. 575 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: Hilarious and totally heartbreaking and horrific chapter in CIA history where. 576 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 2: Essentially the world's supply of LSD. 577 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 1: Was purchased by the CIA and it was administered to 578 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: people in prisons and in mental institutions and sometimes just 579 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 1: people on the streets in the name of science and 580 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: research try to understand. Basically, again, it's Cold War and 581 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: the thing is maybe this new psychedelic drug is a 582 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: secret to either a truth serum or mind control. And 583 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: these were things that the Soviets and the American government 584 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: were taking very seriously and researching extensively, but so many 585 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: people were experimented on with no knowledge. The kind of 586 00:35:55,560 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 1: like funny sick part is that within mk ULTRA was 587 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: this guy George White was basically given free reign to 588 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: He built an apartment in San Francisco that had a 589 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,240 Speaker 1: two way mirror, and he would have sex workers bring 590 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: their customers back to this apartment and he would watch. 591 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,360 Speaker 2: That and they then they would. 592 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: Dose them right somehow unbeknownst to them, and then he 593 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:27,839 Speaker 1: would watch them and take notes. 594 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 2: Among other things, presumably, And. 595 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: So many people were traumatized, hurt, taken advantage of exploited 596 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:46,359 Speaker 1: throughout the whole mk ULTRA process, which lasted years and 597 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: including by the way, Whitey Bulger, the famous Boston mobster, 598 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 1: he was in federal prison in Atlanta, Georgia, my hometown, 599 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: and actually consented to what he thought was. 600 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 2: Research into. 601 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:09,720 Speaker 1: Different kinds of mental illnesses and uh and was given 602 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: massive doses of LSD for months and he had nightmarish 603 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 1: visions for the rest of his life. And who knows. 604 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 2: If the CIA helped create Whitey Bulger. Who knows. 605 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 3: On a happy note, at least Jimmy Carter helped stave 606 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 3: off a nuclear catastrophe in Canada a young Jimmy Carter. 607 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is an awesome one. 608 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 1: This is like some of the snaffoos have have like 609 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: a little hero story baked old of them, and that's 610 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: that's what you're bringing. One of them up where a 611 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 1: nuclear reactor. It was a research reactor in Ontario, just 612 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,320 Speaker 1: up up the Ottawa River from the city of Ottawa, 613 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: and the reactor starts to melt down, but it's based 614 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,839 Speaker 1: the supervisor gave the wrong instructions to somebody and then 615 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,839 Speaker 1: couldn't pick up the phone because he's punching buttons that it. 616 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,240 Speaker 4: Was and the rods are coming out like a Simpson. 617 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:06,400 Speaker 2: It's very Simpsons. 618 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a very simpence moment and a meltdown initiates 619 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: and it's the first, I believe it's the first nuclear 620 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: meltdown in human history. 621 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 3: And the change the game in Canada. Oh yeah, we 622 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 3: have a lot of rules in Canada. 623 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 1: Now, well could be Canada for long. 624 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, well that's true. 625 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,880 Speaker 3: That's going to be exciting anyway. 626 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: The nuclear reactor starts to melt down. They call the 627 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: US military for support, and Jimmy Carter, is twenty five 628 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: years old and is working on nuclear subs and is like, 629 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: knows a lot about nuclear stuff, brings his men up there. 630 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 1: They have to dismantle this reactor, but it's so radioactive 631 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: that they can only be exposed to it for ninety 632 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: seconds at a time, so they build a replica of 633 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,759 Speaker 1: the reactor on a tennis court nearby. They start rehearsing 634 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: this dismantling process basically in a tag team fashion. So 635 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,799 Speaker 1: they run in, undo some bolts, and run out in 636 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:10,720 Speaker 1: ninety seconds. 637 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 4: They're like a Formula one pick. 638 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 2: Yes, it's a great analogy. I love that. 639 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: That's exactly what it's like like. 640 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,319 Speaker 2: With those Rivet guns. And they run in there and. 641 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 1: They get it done, and Jimmy Carter is one of 642 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: the leads of that whole operation. And what I love 643 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 1: about it is I love Jimmy Carter, and a lot 644 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 1: of people think he's kind of a whim which I 645 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,319 Speaker 1: think is a cynical tragic take on his legacy. This 646 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 1: is one of the most heroic things you could ever do. 647 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:41,799 Speaker 1: And it's so badass. 648 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,239 Speaker 4: It's so bad ass. We need, you know what I do. 649 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 3: Feel like America is like full of Jimmy Carter's We 650 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 3: just have to summon We just actually have to summon 651 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 3: the will to save the day. Anyway, Okay, we have 652 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 3: some audience questions, and. 653 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 4: They're very good questions. 654 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,960 Speaker 3: This is the first question from Caroline is will any 655 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 3: of these stories become a movie? 656 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,240 Speaker 4: They are cinematic. I agree with. 657 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,879 Speaker 2: You, God willing, God willing. 658 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:07,719 Speaker 4: And everyone. 659 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: Our partner in the podcast is Film Nation Entertainment, and 660 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:14,320 Speaker 1: we'll see what happens. 661 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 3: Okay, do you have a favorite snaffoo? Oh? Would you 662 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,720 Speaker 3: have an all time favorite? Or that's a good question. 663 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 4: It's hard to pick a favorite. 664 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: A lot of the snaffoos I forgot. I left out 665 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,400 Speaker 1: a criteria in the curatorial process. One of the criteria 666 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,879 Speaker 1: is like, can we find the funny? And that's that's 667 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 1: an important one. Some things are just too tragic or 668 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:43,279 Speaker 1: too horrifying, and and so what we in season two 669 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: of the podcast, which is the one I told you 670 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 1: about with the burglary, the citizen activists that broke into 671 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 1: the FBI. 672 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 2: That one is. 673 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 1: We found some funny, but also felt like it was 674 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: just a great enough story and a powerful and meaningful 675 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 1: enough story that we didn't need to be as funny. 676 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: Season two of the podcasts and I'm so proud of 677 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: that one, which is ironic because it's probably the least 678 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: funny of the three seasons. It's still funny. It's still funny, 679 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 1: but it's also incredibly poignant and incredibly moving. And as 680 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: you learn about these individuals and the risk that they undertook. 681 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,880 Speaker 3: Is there a role for me in the movie? 682 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:40,440 Speaker 4: Okay? What has this is a good question. 683 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 3: What has been the hardest historical event to research? Maybe 684 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:51,919 Speaker 3: the one hidden behind the most kind of layers? 685 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:57,840 Speaker 1: Well, Season one of the podcasts. That season one of 686 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 1: the podcasts has a hero who is an historian that 687 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: we interview extensively throughout the pod throughout that season. Yeah, 688 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 1: and he basically uncovered what is the story of season one? 689 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 1: And he did it just by doggedly, uh, just chasing 690 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:24,600 Speaker 1: down like he was the one that just submitted infinite 691 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,960 Speaker 1: Freedom of Information Act requests and just beat the door 692 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,840 Speaker 1: down and finally got the goods. 693 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,080 Speaker 3: Wow, you know what, I want to take a second 694 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 3: to celebrate, like we got I mean, we worked with 695 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 3: The Dealer Show together for a bunch of years, and 696 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,839 Speaker 3: we always got a lot of credit for the work 697 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,400 Speaker 3: that we did. But I actually like, there's no world 698 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,680 Speaker 3: in which we could do the work that we did 699 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,799 Speaker 3: without the work of journalism, without the work of like 700 00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:57,120 Speaker 3: dogged journalists like like, but really it's no, Like. 701 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,880 Speaker 2: We couldn't make fun of them if they weren't great, 702 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:02,359 Speaker 2: if they. 703 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,880 Speaker 3: Weren't and if they weren't like, if they weren't working 704 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,399 Speaker 3: to reveal the layers of hypocrisy, we. 705 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,320 Speaker 4: Wouldn't have had anything to make jokes about. 706 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,839 Speaker 3: Like, there's no Daily Show without great journalism. There's no 707 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,400 Speaker 3: John Oliver without great journalism. There's none of us, you know, 708 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,280 Speaker 3: none of that exists without that like dogged work. 709 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 4: And then we then vampire off of it and have 710 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,239 Speaker 4: fun with it and make it. 711 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:26,320 Speaker 2: We make it silly. 712 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:27,439 Speaker 4: Oh, this is good. 713 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,360 Speaker 3: Are there any crazy New York City historical events that 714 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:31,280 Speaker 3: you can tell us about? 715 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:33,040 Speaker 2: There are so many. 716 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,640 Speaker 1: There's there's one that, uh. 717 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,160 Speaker 3: Let's see, well, I loved in the in the season 718 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,759 Speaker 3: three of the podcast, in the Prohibition one that you 719 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:47,399 Speaker 3: have on one of the creators of Boardwalk Empire that's. 720 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:48,720 Speaker 4: At Atlantic City. 721 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:54,400 Speaker 3: But I mean it's like regionally, sure, regionally. And he 722 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:55,640 Speaker 3: didn't even know the story. 723 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:56,680 Speaker 4: He didn't, that's right. 724 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:01,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, Terry Winter created Boardwalk Empire, and man, he is 725 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:02,240 Speaker 1: such a fun interview. 726 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:03,960 Speaker 2: He gets his own episode. 727 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,439 Speaker 1: There's a bonus episode that's just that interview with Terry 728 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:15,440 Speaker 1: Winter and and he he researched prohibitions so much. And 729 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,920 Speaker 1: it's the same thing with the first season of the podcast, 730 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:27,279 Speaker 1: which is a crazy story. I won't launch into it, 731 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,440 Speaker 1: but essentially it's it's the story of the movie Wargames, 732 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:32,840 Speaker 1: but the real version and. 733 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:34,320 Speaker 2: It really did happen. 734 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,279 Speaker 1: And I interviewed Matthew Broderick, who was the star of 735 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,279 Speaker 1: war Games and told him about this, and he was 736 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,200 Speaker 1: he had no idea about that. 737 00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:44,680 Speaker 2: And it's just wild. It's kind of fun. 738 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,319 Speaker 1: Like the dig, the deeper you dig on so many 739 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,399 Speaker 1: of these things, the more there's more is there. 740 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 3: We're going to have so much to talk about in 741 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,960 Speaker 3: ten years about this period in time. 742 00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,439 Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I don't know, just don't know. 743 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 4: Just a hand I'm pretty sure a leap forward. Cash 744 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,279 Speaker 4: matel is going to fix the culture. It's gonna be New. 745 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:10,200 Speaker 1: York City staffoods. I mean, where do you start, right? 746 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:16,359 Speaker 1: I felt a drop of liquid hit me today and 747 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:20,840 Speaker 1: it's that I feel like that is a universal New Yorker. 748 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,239 Speaker 1: It's just like, where did that come from? 749 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:23,920 Speaker 4: Liquid? 750 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,839 Speaker 1: It's not raining, and I hope that it's like a 751 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:34,640 Speaker 1: pure drop of of air conditioning condensation, but it's probably 752 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:36,000 Speaker 1: something way grosser. 753 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:38,120 Speaker 2: And uh. 754 00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,440 Speaker 1: One of my favorites truly is the City Corp Buildings. 755 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:43,200 Speaker 2: You guys know that. 756 00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,880 Speaker 1: Story, The City Corp Building right here on the upper 757 00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:53,719 Speaker 1: east side. It was built and fully constructed, and a 758 00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 1: grad student, an engineering grad student, was was reading, researching 759 00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,840 Speaker 1: it and writing about it and realized is that it 760 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:06,480 Speaker 1: didn't have the proper engineering to withstand hurricane force wins 761 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,880 Speaker 1: at a certain direction. Okay, it was engineered to I 762 00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:15,840 Speaker 1: think take like hurricane force winds at the sides, but 763 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:17,440 Speaker 1: a diagonal could have. 764 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:18,000 Speaker 2: Knocked it over. 765 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:19,080 Speaker 4: Oh my god. 766 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,799 Speaker 1: And so they they like, what do you do in 767 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:28,040 Speaker 1: that situation? It's done, it's fully occupied, and they surreptitiously 768 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:33,359 Speaker 1: went in and chant and like added news struts and 769 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,160 Speaker 1: bolts to the building. 770 00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:37,760 Speaker 2: To fix it. 771 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:43,320 Speaker 1: Over over many, I think many months or years, and 772 00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,760 Speaker 1: residents of the building, occupy or tenants of the building 773 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:47,800 Speaker 1: had no idea. 774 00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:49,080 Speaker 4: Do you know what, that's not. 775 00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:50,560 Speaker 3: What you want to that's not what you want to 776 00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,880 Speaker 3: find out when you're like trying to buy into the 777 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,319 Speaker 3: building and they go by the way, it's not structurally sound. 778 00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:57,280 Speaker 4: It's probably frying. 779 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:01,680 Speaker 3: Do you remember, Okay, do you you did this happen? 780 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,640 Speaker 3: Or did I dream it that? When you were living here? 781 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:09,760 Speaker 3: A building fell down behind your building? Is that your building? 782 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,239 Speaker 3: Someone at the Daily Show was had it lived in 783 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:14,880 Speaker 3: an apartment and they were building an apartment building behind 784 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,839 Speaker 3: the apartment and the whole thing collapsed one night. 785 00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:19,319 Speaker 4: It all fell down. 786 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:20,960 Speaker 2: Oh my god, I don't remember that. 787 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:25,200 Speaker 4: Okay, all right, well City Corp. That's great. I love 788 00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,160 Speaker 4: you know what. Oh I'm going. 789 00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,719 Speaker 3: To walk out this door and so much fluid is 790 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:32,640 Speaker 3: going to go on my head. 791 00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:34,680 Speaker 2: Yeah it is, you know what it is? 792 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,360 Speaker 4: Lets This was so fun for me. What a joy? Sam, 793 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,160 Speaker 4: comfy chairs. I never want to leave. 794 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,600 Speaker 3: What are you going to inscribe in people's books? 795 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:45,799 Speaker 4: Oh? 796 00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:48,880 Speaker 2: I want your life stories. I'm going to tell you right. 797 00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,240 Speaker 4: Put everything long, long wisdom. 798 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,520 Speaker 3: Thanks everybody for coming joy, Thank. 799 00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:59,320 Speaker 2: You, Oh Ladies, and Gentle. 800 00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:09,719 Speaker 1: Snafu is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Snapfo Media, 801 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:14,080 Speaker 1: a partnership between Film Nation Entertainment and Pacific Electric Picture Company. 802 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:20,440 Speaker 1: Our post production studio is Gilded Audio. Our executive producers 803 00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:25,480 Speaker 1: are me Ed Helms, Mike Falbo, Glenn Basner, Andy Kim Whitney, Donaldson, 804 00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:30,400 Speaker 1: and Dylan Fagan. This episode was produced by Alyssa Martino 805 00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:35,200 Speaker 1: and Tory Smith. Our video editor is Jared Smith. Technical 806 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,040 Speaker 1: direction and engineering from Nick Dooley. Our creative executive is 807 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:43,680 Speaker 1: Brett Harris. Logo and branding by the Collected Works. Legal 808 00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:48,960 Speaker 1: review from Dan Welsh, Meghan Halson and Caroline Johnson. Special 809 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,280 Speaker 1: thanks to Isaac Dunhom, Adam Horn, Lane Klein, and everyone 810 00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:57,320 Speaker 1: at iHeart Podcasts, but especially Will Pearson, Kerry Lieberman, Niki Etoor, 811 00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:02,520 Speaker 1: Nathan O'towski and Alex. While I have you, don't forget 812 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,480 Speaker 1: to pick up a copy of my book, Snaffoo, The 813 00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:09,520 Speaker 1: Definitive Guide to History's Greatest screw Ups. It's available now 814 00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:14,760 Speaker 1: from any book retailer. Just go to snaffoodashbook dot com. 815 00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:17,600 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and see you next week.