Speaker 1: Hey, I do Part two.
Speaker 2: It's your host, Jane Kramer, and I've got one of
Speaker 2: your favorite celebrity mentors here on the pod with me,
Speaker 2: Jennifer Fessler. And today we're diving into all the divorce
Speaker 2: and Chapter two headlines in the news this week, because
Speaker 2: there is a lot happening. Let's start off with these
Speaker 2: Mormon wives.
Speaker 3: Him my love, Oh you look beautiful, beautiful, you always
Speaker 3: look freaking beautiful.
Speaker 2: You all right, girlfriend, Jen, It's a pleasure to have you.
Speaker 2: I'm so glad that we are back together catching up
Speaker 2: and there's a lot to catch up on. So let's
Speaker 2: dive in first with all this Mormon white stuff. Have
Speaker 2: you seen all the headlines with in Dakota? And then
Speaker 2: they're the latest video just dropped too, from the incident.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is happening in h this is happening
Speaker 3: in real time. I mean we literally this happened five
Speaker 3: minutes before we just started recording. So yeah, unfortunately, unfortunately it.
Speaker 1: Was hard to miss. And did you see it?
Speaker 3: Did you see the because I saw one of the podcasters, Oh,
Speaker 3: Nikki what's her name whatever, like talking about it and
Speaker 3: they said, you know, I am not even gonna post it.
Speaker 3: You can go to TMZ if you want to see it,
Speaker 3: which I did, and so I was able to actually
Speaker 3: see the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Did you see it? I can't watch it.
Speaker 2: I given my d the whole DV background. I I
Speaker 2: I those things are super triggering, and especially I heard
Speaker 2: that the daughter got hit, and I just I'm like,
Speaker 2: I can't. I struggle with yeah, things like that, you know, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I do know. So I'm glad. I don't know how
Speaker 2: many what was your from what what I was told,
Speaker 2: And we just spoke about this my podcast wind down
Speaker 2: to we were talking about he was saying stop and
Speaker 2: being like, this is what abuse looks like. And she
Speaker 2: just kept got him in the headlock, hurled some stools
Speaker 2: at him, and then apparently the daughter.
Speaker 1: Even which they usually are everything like they.
Speaker 2: Even Coda obviously sent this video because he recorded it.
Speaker 1: Well he's saying that. I think he's saying that he did.
Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, like to our listeners, this is happening
Speaker 3: in real time. I think he's claiming that he didn't
Speaker 3: or his rep is I don't know either way.
Speaker 1: It doesn't even matter because he.
Speaker 2: Probably sent it to somebody too. And then like you know,
Speaker 2: what I mean, because that yeah, yeah, and then that
Speaker 2: person probably leaked because there it's like it's been earlier
Speaker 2: she said about all of it, and probably from the
Speaker 2: last allegations of her choking him with the necklace, and
Speaker 2: then what she's saying that he was he was the
Speaker 2: aggressor in the car, and both things can be true, right, Like,
Speaker 2: that's the thing where it's unfortunate with the situation is, yes,
Speaker 2: he could have been the aggressor in the car, and
Speaker 2: yes she could have been the aggressor with choking him
Speaker 2: with the necklace, But what was your stance when you
Speaker 2: watch the video? Because I think when I watched the videos,
Speaker 2: all it was sickening, and everyone is going to feel
Speaker 2: this way. I think it was just the baby was
Speaker 2: the part that was the whole thing was sickening, and
Speaker 2: then you factor in the baby, and so that's like
Speaker 2: a whole different level of you know, just awful, disgusting,
Speaker 2: you know, just gut wrenching. And then so I watched
Speaker 2: the first season of Mormon Wives, and our producer Heather
Speaker 2: had reminded me that like the first episode that was
Speaker 2: when it was all happening, that she had gotten They
Speaker 2: showed her getting arrested, which by the way, was my
Speaker 2: and I just had also spoken about this. It always
Speaker 2: kind of rubbed me the wrong way that it just
Speaker 2: kind of went away, you know.
Speaker 1: I'm like, what happened?
Speaker 2: And are we addressing the fact that abuse is not
Speaker 2: okay on both sides? You know?
Speaker 3: And if I remember correctly, that happened, but they stayed together.
Speaker 1: They it's been like back and forth. They broke up.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm actually gether. They broke up, so they're off
Speaker 2: and on. Okay, yeah, they're off and on. So again
Speaker 2: watching the video.
Speaker 3: So watching the video is gut wrenching, and I'm really
Speaker 3: glad you didn't watch it. And also I thought, whoever
Speaker 3: accepted that final rose if that person is not running
Speaker 3: for the hills, I don't know how. I mean, I'm
Speaker 3: sorry now, I'm just thinking in terms of like TV
Speaker 3: and these are real people in real lives. So I
Speaker 3: don't mean to be callous. But I saw her also
Speaker 3: today or yesterday on the Today Show.
Speaker 1: She don't get more Americ excuse me? On Good Morning America.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's been on Regis. I'm sorry, not rags, Markan Kelly.
Speaker 2: She's being Morning America. She's been doing the rounds because
Speaker 2: Bachelor I supposed to air on Sunday, which from this
Speaker 2: now video, do you think that it should air so?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: But also, and I'll tell you why. But I watching
Speaker 3: her on Good Morning America, I thought she handled it
Speaker 3: like a champ. Right now, I hadn't seen her.
Speaker 2: She said the same thing. I thought she handled it
Speaker 2: really well on the mark in Kelly.
Speaker 1: I didn't see her.
Speaker 2: Because she was basically just like all of my premieres
Speaker 2: have been ruined. You know, he's tried to sabotage my premieres,
Speaker 2: you know so.
Speaker 3: And I didn't hear her say that on Good Morning America. Okay,
Speaker 3: I heard her say more like this is I can't
Speaker 3: hide it. This is like the worst thing that could
Speaker 3: ever happen. And I'm still showing up. I don't and
Speaker 3: whatever she said, I don't, you know, I don't remember
Speaker 3: the words. But I found her personally. I found her sympathetic,
Speaker 3: right And now I am not jury, I'm not god.
Speaker 3: I only have though. Yeah, I just I'm coming right
Speaker 3: off of that video and it's just awful. And it
Speaker 3: feels to me like spotlighting that they said that she was.
Speaker 3: Didn't she get help when she went away for a
Speaker 3: couple of weeks.
Speaker 2: She I believe she went to some sort of retreat center.
Speaker 2: I know there's a place called the Hoffmann Institute, which
Speaker 2: I debated.
Speaker 1: Going to after my divorce.
Speaker 2: I ended up choosing on site, which is in another
Speaker 2: amazing place to you know, do a lot of healing work.
Speaker 2: And I was so proud of her because that work
Speaker 2: is some really hard work to go back and clearly
Speaker 2: she's had some trauma in her life. And you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know his story as much, but just from
Speaker 2: what I've been, just from what I've watched and learned
Speaker 2: about her, that she really needed that place. And so
Speaker 2: I was hoping that that place and then you know,
Speaker 2: with doing the Bachelorette and being happier and finding that healing,
Speaker 2: that she would be on the other side of it.
Speaker 2: But then to hear more allegations of that abuse again
Speaker 2: is sour.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well so he they say that he was an addict,
Speaker 3: but I guess he was an addict. I don't know
Speaker 3: if he's said it also and that, but also Taylor's
Speaker 3: dad was abusive to Taylor's mom. I mean, this is
Speaker 3: you know, abuse repeating yourself. Dakota's right, so Dakota is
Speaker 3: supposed to be an or is an addict. I'm not sure,
Speaker 3: but there's always it's always I think he's in recovery,
Speaker 3: but it's always messy and awful.
Speaker 1: And I guess there's so many.
Speaker 3: Pieces of this right like, but the piece right now
Speaker 3: is that this show is about to air. And I
Speaker 3: don't know, I don't know how you watched this show
Speaker 3: with a smile and in a way that's impartial, and
Speaker 3: you know, it's such a fun show to watch.
Speaker 1: I love well, you want for people to find love.
Speaker 1: It's to see that.
Speaker 2: You know, when when you watch The Bachelor, the girls,
Speaker 2: you know they're they're a little uh who they are
Speaker 2: bond and I had their bonds and stuff. And then
Speaker 2: when you watch the Bachelorette, it's like, okay, these the
Speaker 2: guys and and kind of you know, seeing right who's
Speaker 2: you know, who's who would be you know, good fit
Speaker 2: for her? But right now, I mean it sounds like
Speaker 2: she's like a little you know, it's myself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean it's like a little fairy tale,
Speaker 3: right It's like it's it's it's fun, and it's you're
Speaker 3: hoping that they're going to ride away.
Speaker 1: Into the sunset.
Speaker 3: But whoever took that last rose from her, we're already
Speaker 3: kind of like, how is that panning out? I mean
Speaker 3: it just so it's I feel like it's over before
Speaker 3: it even begins. But you know, who am I I'm
Speaker 3: this is I'm just just as a viewer. But I
Speaker 3: felt like when I watched it, and I feel like
Speaker 3: everyone else feel like this. It's awful. But the baby
Speaker 3: of it all was horrendous.
Speaker 2: And I think what's really sad about this too. I
Speaker 2: didn't know that she grew up in a violent household,
Speaker 2: but unfortunately, when you were a child of abuse, that
Speaker 2: is then ingrained in you to think that is what
Speaker 2: is normal, and that is the farthest thing from what
Speaker 2: is actually normal. And unfortunately then she's just taking on
Speaker 2: that pattern then for her children.
Speaker 3: Well, so she didn't grow up with her dad, I guess.
Speaker 3: But I can also say that I grew up with
Speaker 3: a certain amount of abuse as well, physical and I
Speaker 3: don't really talk about a lot, but anyway, but I've
Speaker 3: been through thirty years of therapy, you know, and I
Speaker 3: because God forbid, I repeat my childhood and I'm very
Speaker 3: proud of that. And I married the world's most gentleman.
Speaker 3: So there's also that, but I feel for her, I
Speaker 3: feel for there are patterns and everything about it is
Speaker 3: just sad. And maybe we judge, we should judge, maybe
Speaker 3: we shouldn't judge. I don't even know, but I just
Speaker 3: don't think at this point that I would watch the bacherette.
Speaker 2: Do you think if it was a man in this situation,
Speaker 2: they would pull it?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's where I think it's not it's it's
Speaker 2: it shouldn't be a double standard when it comes to abuse.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: I've also been talking to just people that I know
Speaker 3: in casting who say that, you know, she went directly
Speaker 3: from one show to the next, and I don't know,
Speaker 3: I don't know how extensive at that point, Like the
Speaker 3: background checks, there's so much when you go into a
Speaker 3: real at least for me, you tell me.
Speaker 1: But like when I.
Speaker 3: About the arrests though, I mean you know about the
Speaker 3: arrest I guess there wasn't anything else at that point. Yeah,
Speaker 3: But like when I got cast, I was not just
Speaker 3: a background check on me. I mean, my husband wasn't
Speaker 3: getting paid. They did a full background check on him
Speaker 3: and a full deep dive into everything we've ever done
Speaker 3: on Facebook and social media, and you know, so there
Speaker 3: is something.
Speaker 2: I do want to say about the divorce or sorry,
Speaker 2: that's the divorce. But the abuse side of things is
Speaker 2: that so many times it's the man is the abuser,
Speaker 2: but there are cases where the women where the woman
Speaker 2: is also the abuser, and it's not talked about as
Speaker 2: much because people just automatically think the man's the abuser.
Speaker 2: And I am by no means calling her the soul
Speaker 2: abuser by any by any means. But what I do
Speaker 2: want to highlight is a term called violent resistance. And
Speaker 2: it's something that I learned going through my DV story.
Speaker 2: When you are in an abusive relationship, nine out of
Speaker 2: ten women end up retaliating with violent resistance. Now then
Speaker 2: their abuser will say, well, you're abusive. But the violent
Speaker 2: resistance is a lot categorizes under a self defense, it
Speaker 2: categorizes under it at times. It's also when they want
Speaker 2: they want to fight back for themselves, they want to
Speaker 2: either regain the control. But that is where it becomes cloudy.
Speaker 2: And this might be this might be Taylor in that
Speaker 2: violent resistance mode because but it's hard when you watch
Speaker 2: a video where he's saying stop and I think that's
Speaker 2: where it gets a little hard because if he's saying stop,
Speaker 2: then she's not in immediate danger. So people will just
Speaker 2: think she's the abuser, but they don't they're not aware
Speaker 2: of the violent resistance piece of it where she has
Speaker 2: maybe because we don't know, she maybe has endured lots
Speaker 2: of violence from him.
Speaker 1: Maybe who knows.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so what are your thoughts about this from this
Speaker 3: was three years are coming out today?
Speaker 2: Well, again, I think it's the part where we don't
Speaker 2: know the full story. And that's why I want to
Speaker 2: bring up the violent resistance because I think if someone
Speaker 2: watches that video, they're just gonna be like, oh, she's
Speaker 2: the abuser. But there is such a big piece and
Speaker 2: this is where it's not talked about. And this is
Speaker 2: why I want DV to be spoken about more, is
Speaker 2: because there is that violent resistance piece of it. And
Speaker 2: again because we don't have all the facts. Again, I'm
Speaker 2: not saying what she did is okay, absolutely not, like
Speaker 2: I know that you're not like you are not no
Speaker 2: means am I using very clear of course, yeah, but
Speaker 2: like you should not put your hands on someone else.
Speaker 1: Having said that, within the violent.
Speaker 2: Resistance in an abusive relationship, these women feel like they
Speaker 2: have to fight back. Yeah, and what was the video
Speaker 2: showing before he recorded things?
Speaker 1: Again, I'm not saying it's okay.
Speaker 2: And my therapist I always say that it's like violence
Speaker 2: is not the answer. Having said that, when you are
Speaker 2: in an abusive relationship, and again, nine out of ten
Speaker 2: women end up going into that violent resistance And the
Speaker 2: problem is the woman ends up getting arrested because of
Speaker 2: reactions then because now he's rolling a camera, what was
Speaker 2: he doing before they came?
Speaker 1: Again, none of it is.
Speaker 2: Okay, like any part of it is okay, But there's
Speaker 2: also a bigger picture within what happens when you are
Speaker 2: in a domestic violence And so let me let me
Speaker 2: be this relationship.
Speaker 3: What if you spin that right and you say and
Speaker 3: or she also could just be this like that to who? Again,
Speaker 3: we don't know, because women can be the abuser to
Speaker 3: So that's what I was gonna say. So, how often
Speaker 3: when you see a man being violent do we say
Speaker 3: was he? Is there such a thing as a man
Speaker 3: also being a violent resistor?
Speaker 1: I understand what you're saying with that. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm a percent I'm not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, but and you know, maybe you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. I don't know that situation, but we also
Speaker 2: know for you know, yes, they could say, well, a
Speaker 2: woman could just walk away. He's saying stop, he could
Speaker 2: have you know, he was trying to get away. Apparently
Speaker 2: it's from what this video is. And that's a good question.
Speaker 2: That's something you know that I haven't spoken to my
Speaker 2: therapist about that piece, you know. But in cases, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm it should be the same way. But he also no,
Speaker 2: because he shouldn't. A man also shouldn't lay his hands
Speaker 2: on a woman, and again a woman shouldn't either. So
Speaker 2: in most cases it is the healthy yes, that's where
Speaker 2: it's like, but no, no hands should ever be on anyone,
Speaker 2: that's the thing. But if you are feeling like you
Speaker 2: are unsafe and you need to protect yourself, that is
Speaker 2: when it gets cloudy, because if they feel trapped or stuck,
Speaker 2: and there's a there's a whole list online about the
Speaker 2: different stages of why someone does the violent resistance, and
Speaker 2: you know, and again when you went in the court
Speaker 2: of law, it's it's really hard because they'll look at
Speaker 2: that video and go, well, you weren't in danger, so
Speaker 2: you were the you were the one attacking like they're
Speaker 2: happened to yesterday, what happened course, Like they're not going
Speaker 2: to take into account what happened the last five years
Speaker 2: in their relationship.
Speaker 3: They're just going to see her as the abuser. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And I also think that, let's get real for a minute.
Speaker 3: It's it's a woman that is, I mean, I'm even
Speaker 3: allowed to say that in this day and age, but
Speaker 3: more likely that the woman is taking the physical abuse. Sorry,
Speaker 3: it's just it just is. But I'm not saying it
Speaker 3: doesn't happen like in this case, and I'm not saying
Speaker 3: that a woman can't be the physical abuser. And I
Speaker 3: don't know if it's okay for a man to then
Speaker 3: develop that kind of resistance. It's all very ugly and
Speaker 3: complicated and sad, and I think you're right, needs to
Speaker 3: be talked about more, you know. And also I guess
Speaker 3: she was also, I guess she used to be drinking.
Speaker 3: She was a drinker back when it happened three years ago,
Speaker 3: and she's not anymore.
Speaker 1: And so Physis.
Speaker 2: In the context of intimate partner violence, a man can
Speaker 2: engage in violent resistance, which is defined as the use
Speaker 2: of violence in response to a partner's course of controlling
Speaker 2: violence when.
Speaker 1: Men are more while men are more.
Speaker 2: Often the primary per portrayers of intimate terrorism, Research indicates
Speaker 2: that some men use violent violence to resist, defender retaliate
Speaker 2: against a partner's controlling behaviors.
Speaker 1: And and and that might be what's happening.
Speaker 2: They're they're toxic relationship back and forth, like they both
Speaker 2: need to just co parent separately.
Speaker 1: And really, yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean this is not especially since it's you know,
Speaker 2: even after the Bachelorette, this is still happening where they're
Speaker 2: still talking about his past and perhast people.
Speaker 1: Like in the.
Speaker 2: You should not be putting your hands on anybody, plain
Speaker 2: and simple. And something that I've learned is anytime that
Speaker 2: anything ever gets heated, we just have to you have
Speaker 2: to walk away. You know.
Speaker 3: It's you know, what's so funny, Jane, is that I
Speaker 3: don't even know if you watch Jersey because it feels
Speaker 3: like now it was one hundred years ago.
Speaker 1: But the finale of.
Speaker 3: The last season that we did, which was season fourteen,
Speaker 3: got violent, and so it did, and I the whole
Speaker 3: cast was a whole cast finale, and I just left
Speaker 3: and I got to look for it from my viewers
Speaker 3: because a lot of them just said it was supposed
Speaker 3: to I was not supposed to do. I was like
Speaker 3: hosting this luncheon with Dolores, and as soon as it
Speaker 3: got violent, my I just couldn't whether it's my own
Speaker 3: you know, past and and what I've I get very
Speaker 3: freaked out and I just couldn't stay. I was like,
Speaker 3: I'm not out of here, and I did. I got
Speaker 3: a lot of youer crap for it, like she leaves,
Speaker 3: you were hosting the lunch. That's your job. That ain't
Speaker 3: my job. My job job, it's not my job. Nomen
Speaker 3: take them out to get sorry.
Speaker 1: I have no interest in that. Yeah, none, Well good
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm just saying like if I make good TV,
Speaker 3: like all this is such a great it's not a
Speaker 3: great set.
Speaker 1: Abuse it's never a great TV. That's the thing.
Speaker 2: Like that is where like, uh, it's being physical. That
Speaker 2: is not something that our children need to see. That's
Speaker 2: not something that we need to witness or do to
Speaker 2: somebody else to the respect level. When you have to
Speaker 2: grab someone, hurt someone, push someone verbally physically, that is
Speaker 2: not something to get viewership for. And if that's something
Speaker 2: that ABC is going to keep on, that just shows
Speaker 2: that they are feeding into this really awful narrative that
Speaker 2: it's acceptable and it's not acceptable on the side, whether
Speaker 2: violent resistance or not, like there is you should not
Speaker 2: Like again, do you have to defend yourself one hundred percent,
Speaker 2: like defend yourself to get out of a situation if
Speaker 2: that's you know, the case. But it's not something where
Speaker 2: you should be highlighting or saying that behavior is okay,
Speaker 2: because it's not okay.
Speaker 3: I agree completely. Do you think that ABC should call
Speaker 3: it off?
Speaker 1: What do you think?
Speaker 2: I think I hope they do, just because if not,
Speaker 2: then they're wanting to see the viewership of the And
Speaker 2: I'm proud of the girls for not filming The Secret
Speaker 2: Life and being like, you guys need to figure this
Speaker 2: out because you're just enabling a situation that is not
Speaker 2: healthy and is not safe for anybody. It is like
Speaker 2: DV is not something to joke about, to get viewership
Speaker 2: about to It's just not at all. And if it
Speaker 2: was a guy, they would have shut it down immediately.
Speaker 1: We're on the same side of history here, and it
Speaker 1: is a guy too. It's a it's this is the thing.
Speaker 1: It's not. I don't think it's just one person.
Speaker 2: I think it's the both of them are in, you know,
Speaker 2: a toxic cycle that they have to step right outside
Speaker 2: from each other.
Speaker 3: The other piece is even if you which you can't.
Speaker 3: But I'm just talking like hypothetically, even if they were
Speaker 3: together again and there wasn't violence, So how are you
Speaker 3: going in through a whole season knowing that they were
Speaker 3: unless they were just exchanging kids, I guess or something.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm just thinking of like the logistics of
Speaker 3: you know, after you get the final rose, then you're
Speaker 3: kind of what I know about it right from what
Speaker 3: I'm just a viewer, But you're isolated. You go somewhere,
Speaker 3: you can't talk to anyone. I think that your kid
Speaker 3: would be brought to you. You wouldn't go hang out
Speaker 3: with your ex who you were in an abusive relationship with.
Speaker 3: I don't know, the whole thing is just a show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sad. It's really sad because there's kids involved. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't obviously never saw this.
Speaker 3: I knew she'd been arrested, but I didn't really know
Speaker 3: all the details. But I've been asked before just in
Speaker 3: talking about pop culture, like out of all the Mormon wives,
Speaker 3: I was like, I always liked the messy girl, Like,
Speaker 3: I just think she's so cute and she's so all
Speaker 3: over the place. And you know, I didn't know her past.
Speaker 3: I wasn't judging like, oh, she had been arrested. I
Speaker 3: guess I didn't even at that point factor into it.
Speaker 3: I just thought she was just a little bit of
Speaker 3: a hot mess and I'm always drawn to those people.
Speaker 1: But anyway, so I liked her.
Speaker 3: I liked her in Good Morning America when I watched
Speaker 3: her two days ago.
Speaker 2: There needs to be, yeah, a lot of a lot
Speaker 2: of healing work done though, and yeah, separation from them,
Speaker 2: and if you know anyone called the National Domestic Violence
Speaker 2: Hotline at one eight hundred seven nine nine seven two
Speaker 2: three three hard. Turn now to the brutal reason why
Speaker 2: Keith Urban's daughter Sunday snubbed the singer. So Keith Urban
Speaker 2: Nicole Kiman's daughter have reportedly fully taken their mom's side
Speaker 2: after their parents' divorce. Sunday recently snubbed her father in
Speaker 2: a new interview in which she gushed over Kidman and
Speaker 2: failed to mention him. Sunday called Kidman her biggest inspiration
Speaker 2: in life and a key part of everything she does.
Speaker 2: An interview with Elle, in which Urban reportedly took issue
Speaker 2: but felt a numb too. They've made their own choices
Speaker 2: about their dad, a source claim to the outlet. Kidman
Speaker 2: isn't like that Keith hasn't tried much to make things better.
Speaker 2: In their eyes, the girls have always been close with
Speaker 2: their mother. They are her everything. A source also told
Speaker 2: the aule Of that Sunday and Faith are hurt and
Speaker 2: angry on her behalf following their parents split after nineteen
Speaker 2: years of marriage. There's some resentment against Keith. If they
Speaker 2: are blaming someone, it's him, not her, they said. Urban
Speaker 2: is reportedly worried about his relationship with his daughters, but
Speaker 2: it's hopeful that I will turn around. He's hurt, but
Speaker 2: he feels he can patch things up. He doesn't blame Nicole,
Speaker 2: and it doesn't seem like she's alienating them from him.
Speaker 2: You know, I feel like when kids are that age,
Speaker 2: at fifteen seventeen, they're like, I was very aware what
Speaker 2: happened in my parents' divorce. I was thirteen years old.
Speaker 2: I understood that what happened happened, and it was never
Speaker 2: my mom saying your dad's a bad person. I made
Speaker 2: up for myself what I thought it was. And now
Speaker 2: my dad and I have a great relationship, but that
Speaker 2: was a relationship that just took time because of the
Speaker 2: things that I witnessed and I saw and I felt
Speaker 2: as a kid, and I think in those years that's
Speaker 2: a really tough age. And as well, I went to
Speaker 2: my mom and that too because you want to protect
Speaker 2: your mom and you see, maybe certain things I'm not
Speaker 2: saying Keith did any bad.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Again, we don't know anything right from our own personal yes,
Speaker 2: But I just make up from my own personal experience
Speaker 2: that why I gravitated towards my mom. I believe that
Speaker 2: again from what I saw.
Speaker 3: Well, my parents have been divorced seven times between them,
Speaker 3: so it started at a very young age, right, And
Speaker 3: like I was three and my sister was two and
Speaker 3: my mom my mom and dad divorced and there were
Speaker 3: lots of horrible stepparents.
Speaker 1: But that's for another episode.
Speaker 3: But anyway, and there was a ton of bad mouthing
Speaker 3: on both sides, and I, you know, for me, like
Speaker 3: mommy was just mommy. You know, she was my safe
Speaker 3: place at least when I was very young. And but
Speaker 3: I never ever like, you know, I wanted his love
Speaker 3: so badly, and it was never like there was never
Speaker 3: a choice. Really, I never felt like I had a choice,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. I was always just kind
Speaker 3: of juggling defending one or defending the other. Again, I
Speaker 3: mean I was very young and then so but with
Speaker 3: my kids. I think we've talked about this before, but
Speaker 3: I was separated for a year and a half and
Speaker 3: now we got back together.
Speaker 1: But you guys are good now. Yeah, it's like a miracle.
Speaker 3: Well we look at it her like I wonder if
Speaker 3: it would have ever if it would have ever been
Speaker 3: this good, you know, I don't know, Yes, Well, but
Speaker 3: the thing is when it happened, I've had so much
Speaker 3: trauma in terms of like my parents and divorce and
Speaker 3: step whatever, all of it. So we not never once
Speaker 3: in that year and a half did anything to say
Speaker 3: anything but wonderful things about the other. Like I was
Speaker 3: more conscious of it because I've been through it. He
Speaker 3: had a his parents were never divorced, and they were wonderful
Speaker 3: to each other. But I remember once he was in
Speaker 3: the car with my kids and Rachel, my daughter called
Speaker 3: me on speaker and started complaining and Dad, whatever you know,
Speaker 3: I don't remember the exact whatever it was, and I
Speaker 3: was like, honey, you dialed the wrong number. If you
Speaker 3: want to complain about Jeff Fessler, you find someone else
Speaker 3: to call it. You have the best father, and so
Speaker 3: you're barking up the wrong tree.
Speaker 2: And I think parent parent alienation and co parenting is
Speaker 2: I think one of the worst things you can do
Speaker 2: for that child. And again, I'm so grateful that my
Speaker 2: mom didn't do that. Again, I think kids are smart
Speaker 2: enough to make up their own minds. But and it
Speaker 2: sounds like, you know, Nicole isn't alienating them or saying things,
Speaker 2: and I think it's but I have known people that
Speaker 2: speak so poorly about out their exes to their kids,
Speaker 2: and I have some how it has affected and I
Speaker 2: believe that's that's a form of manipulation. And it's not
Speaker 2: like do I love my ex husband. No, do I
Speaker 2: want to say certain things the kids like, I mean, sure,
Speaker 2: but I would never do that because like, for example,
Speaker 2: I was just talking Jolie called me the other day
Speaker 2: at his house because he redid her room, and I'm
Speaker 2: just like.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Daddy gave you the best room ever.
Speaker 2: And it's like I want her to feel safe, loved,
Speaker 2: adored by her father because he is a good dad,
Speaker 2: you know, and he he loves her and he's showing
Speaker 2: up for her, and so you know, I want you know,
Speaker 2: do I get frustrated at times because I feel differently
Speaker 2: in certain situations? Sure, but like that's not for them
Speaker 2: to take on my feelings about my ex. Like all
Speaker 2: they need to know and feel is loved, supported and safe, you.
Speaker 1: Know, and why God bless you, like good for you.
Speaker 1: Clearly you have put the work in because I.
Speaker 2: Just know the effects and I've seen it from like
Speaker 2: the first time of like how I they will when
Speaker 2: they're older, they can make up the assumptions they like,
Speaker 2: And I don't want to manipulate how their relationship is
Speaker 2: gonna look. That's not fair, like just because oh I
Speaker 2: want to look like the better parent, Like no, like
Speaker 2: they'll know what happened in our marriage eventually, but like
Speaker 2: I want them to be like, yeah, but my dad
Speaker 2: loves me and that's all that matters, Like it's between us.
Speaker 2: Shouldn't then influence them?
Speaker 3: And well yeah, right, most of my friends who are
Speaker 3: going through or have been through divorce, they're not able
Speaker 3: to do that.
Speaker 1: So kudos to you. I have a lot of.
Speaker 2: I'm grateful that my kids were young when we got divorced,
Speaker 2: because I don't know, it would have been a lot
Speaker 2: harder because I had been like dad, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, I probably would have gone off the rails.
Speaker 2: If they were maybe a little older, maybe you wouldn't
Speaker 2: have a lot.
Speaker 3: But like I say that you wouldn't because you did
Speaker 3: not you know. But like I I've had a lot
Speaker 3: of friends and a lot of people that they're in
Speaker 3: the process that I know that I know now and
Speaker 3: that just can't help it.
Speaker 1: Yea, and they get they become so incurable their father
Speaker 1: is not.
Speaker 2: Paying for Yeah, Like I would never tell my kids that.
Speaker 2: I mean again, they're not old enough to listen to
Speaker 2: my podcast, but like, yes, I talk about my resentment
Speaker 2: of having to pay child support, But never would I
Speaker 2: ever say to them, well I have to pay your
Speaker 2: daddy for years, because I'm like, then they're going to think, oh,
Speaker 2: negative of their father.
Speaker 3: And that's people don't even understand how much that takes
Speaker 3: to hold back. I mean I think that I it's
Speaker 3: so funny we have two different situations.
Speaker 1: Like I grew up with parents.
Speaker 3: It was a it was a shit show and they
Speaker 3: both had horrible things to say, and it was every time,
Speaker 3: and I felt like they were angry at me when
Speaker 3: I would go back, and you looks like you grew
Speaker 3: up and your mother specifically was so wonderful.
Speaker 1: Well I knew what my dad did.
Speaker 2: Again, I she didn't have to tell me, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? I tell those things where it's like
Speaker 2: I again in these this situation, but between Sunday and Faith,
Speaker 2: it's like they're old enough to know and have seen
Speaker 2: and witness things to make up their own mind. And
Speaker 2: like my mom didn't want to like alienate us anymore.
Speaker 2: He his actions alienated us enough, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean my mother took adulthood to then men not
Speaker 2: and I took, you know, being in my late thirties
Speaker 2: to go mid thirties to go Okay, what were you
Speaker 2: going through at that time that made you did that?
Speaker 2: And to have grace and compassion. But that took years,
Speaker 2: you know, So.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I never I never had the courage
Speaker 1: to get mad.
Speaker 3: And my dad about any of it, and he denies
Speaker 3: a lot of it to this day.
Speaker 2: But well, all that age because they didn't do therapy
Speaker 2: they're not the ownership and our age is not right, not.
Speaker 3: Any Yeah, but I mean I was there, Like I
Speaker 3: remember him calling his soon to be wife. But you
Speaker 3: remember cousin Linda from the wedding cousin. We all got
Speaker 3: a cousin Linda, all right.
Speaker 1: We all got a cousin Linda. So I was old
Speaker 1: enough to remember that.
Speaker 3: But it was a situation where it was bad and
Speaker 3: with anyway, the point is, I am very impressed with
Speaker 3: the fact that you've been able to hold back in
Speaker 3: that way when it comes to your kids.
Speaker 1: I hope that.
Speaker 3: And I was heartbroken when these two split up. I
Speaker 3: always love Nicole and Keith.
Speaker 1: I know I was. Actually I was so sad, I know,
Speaker 1: so cute, but you know what we never it was
Speaker 1: behind closed doors.
Speaker 3: Isn't it weird that, Like I think back to like
Speaker 3: her and Tom Cruise and how those two kids. It
Speaker 3: looks like, I mean whatever, just as a just as
Speaker 3: a viewer or whatever, that they went the way of
Speaker 3: Tom Cruise. Maybe because of scientology, I don't know, but
Speaker 3: it looks like she kind of lost those two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I haven't thought it is. It is very interesting.
Speaker 1: It's very sad, But I would.
Speaker 2: Say and think about to help your kids with filling
Speaker 2: your resentment to their you know, to them.
Speaker 3: Meant, look at Brad Pitt and Angelina and now all
Speaker 3: those kids. I mean, I guess it's a very hard
Speaker 3: thing to escape, you know. And kids are allowed to
Speaker 3: have also their own feelings when they're old enough to
Speaker 3: have seen it like you were and understand the way
Speaker 3: it all went down.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you know, there's there's that.
Speaker 2: And I also have a lot of listen going through
Speaker 2: a divorce, especially if some if you were wronged by
Speaker 2: this person, which you're when you get divorced, someone's angry
Speaker 2: at somebody, clearly because you're you're divorcing. But there is also,
Speaker 2: again so much grace for the fact that you have
Speaker 2: that anger and that resentment, and nobody will fault you
Speaker 2: for the time that you've maybe said one or two
Speaker 2: comments out of pure frustration, you know. And again that's
Speaker 2: why I'm saying, I'm glad my kids were younger, because
Speaker 2: I who knows, you know, I might have needed a
Speaker 2: buddy then to be like, God, your dad is such
Speaker 2: a lov you know what I mean, Like, because I
Speaker 2: wanted a friend and I sometimes you know, we think
Speaker 2: of our kids as friends at times, and they're not
Speaker 2: in those situations, you know, and they shouldn't be your
Speaker 2: ear and you're counter part in that because that's you're
Speaker 2: talking about their father and that's not okay.
Speaker 1: So hopefully Goldberg, what's going on?
Speaker 2: Yes, well, Big Goldberg says after three divorces, her sex
Speaker 2: life now consists of hit and runs. I don't know why,
Speaker 2: but the headline just makes me laugh and it's so funny.
Speaker 2: And I'm also like, yeah, girl, like it's a hit
Speaker 2: and run when she needs it. You know, she's she's
Speaker 2: seventy years old, you know what I mean. Like she's
Speaker 2: clearly you know, she says, uh sorry, she's didn't hesitate
Speaker 2: to relate. She said, I bar hop, I go hang,
Speaker 2: she said, prompting co host Joey to ask whether she
Speaker 2: personally missed that chapter of a life. She goes, I'm single,
Speaker 2: Goldberg seventy replied, I do hit and runs when I
Speaker 2: need it, but I'm not married to anybody and I
Speaker 2: don't have responsibilities. And listen, I mean, good, Onya. I
Speaker 2: think it's hilarious and I think it's great. And when
Speaker 2: you're seventy, I mean, she's like, I don't want to
Speaker 2: live with anybody. She added, I have lots of people
Speaker 2: that I love, but I don't need them living with me.
Speaker 1: I don't need to be sleeping with them.
Speaker 2: And I I think it's at seventy.
Speaker 3: Whatever, I think, whatever I will give, she could fuck
Speaker 3: whoever she wants to.
Speaker 1: I think it's all good as well.
Speaker 3: I think that for me, I don't think that I
Speaker 3: would be looking for a hit and run at seventy.
Speaker 3: If Jeff and I divorced, I'm single tomorrow. If I'm
Speaker 3: getting with someone, it's probably more for companionship. I would
Speaker 3: want to have somebody, you know, where everybody's different.
Speaker 1: She wants to be alone. I don't know if that
Speaker 1: i'd ever.
Speaker 3: Get married again per se, but I think what I
Speaker 3: would be looking for is more of companionship. Yeah, companionship
Speaker 3: a best friend. And who knows, maybe I would be
Speaker 3: bar hoping and hitting and running all over the place.
Speaker 3: I don't but yeah, I'm not. I don't have that
Speaker 3: in me now for my husband, who I love. So
Speaker 3: I don't know that i'm you know, I mean, I whatever,
Speaker 3: you understand what I'm saying, like I'm not. I don't
Speaker 3: get like, oh my god, I got to get it
Speaker 3: going on tonight?
Speaker 1: But would be good for hers? Right?
Speaker 3: I mean, and I'm at this point in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 3: It makes you happy, it makes me happy, so good
Speaker 3: for her?
Speaker 2: Have you heard of alpine divorce? So men are ditching
Speaker 2: women during hikes and over twenty five million people are
Speaker 2: deeply disturbed by what is being called an alpine divorce.
Speaker 2: Something extremely unsettling has been circulating around the internet and
Speaker 2: if you're addicted to scrolling you might have seen it.
Speaker 2: People are calling it alpine divorce, so not an officially
Speaker 2: coin term, it describes a situation where a man intentionally
Speaker 2: abandons his female partner during a hike or outdoor trip
Speaker 2: without a phone, water, or other resources. Conversations about alpine
Speaker 2: divorce can be found all over social media, and one
Speaker 2: woman's experience caught the attention of over twenty five million
Speaker 2: on TikTok.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I alpined. That's called being a douchebag
Speaker 1: devil's advocate.
Speaker 2: If there is a situation where maybe the person feels
Speaker 2: unsafe and they want to be in public when they
Speaker 2: speak out about, you know, being like, hey, I don't
Speaker 2: want to be married to anymore.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be with you.
Speaker 2: Or this if they maybe feel like they're in a
Speaker 2: situation where they don't feel safe. That is the only
Speaker 2: way that I think that that would be.
Speaker 3: I say this is they're describing this this term as
Speaker 3: a situation where a man, yes intentionally a female partner
Speaker 3: during a hike, maybe he feels unsafe. I'm giving him.
Speaker 1: I'm giving him a little and a lot of grace.
Speaker 1: I'm giving a lot of.
Speaker 2: Credit, my friend, just thinking maybe if he's in a
Speaker 2: bad situation.
Speaker 1: Stan with you on this one. I don't know, just
Speaker 1: take a call, okay and say give it something.
Speaker 3: John's something you John thrown at the top of a mountain,
Speaker 3: see you later, good luck.
Speaker 2: I know. I'm just thinking from like I've got Dakota
Speaker 2: and Taylor on my mind right now, so I'm like,
Speaker 2: like I'm safe or something, and like he just wants like,
Speaker 2: you know, you're just not.
Speaker 1: That I am. I think he's a douchebag. To have
Speaker 1: a douchebag divorce, that's what we're going to call that.
Speaker 1: A douchebag divorce.
Speaker 2: Jessica Alba and Cash Warren's multi million dollar settlement revealed
Speaker 2: so one month after the producer moved to finalize his
Speaker 2: and the Fantastic four actress divorce proceedings. A judge officially
Speaker 2: has signed all the documents. This this divorce made me
Speaker 2: sad because.
Speaker 1: They just also also a couple of divorce.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I just yeah, it made me sad. They
Speaker 2: they they And this is the part two where it's
Speaker 2: the okay reading about the settlements. I don't know, maybe
Speaker 2: because I had my settlement all in the page. It
Speaker 2: just makes me, honestly feel a little uncomfortable, even being like,
Speaker 2: all right, he's got a pay or five thousand experience.
Speaker 1: We know, yeah it's.
Speaker 2: And then it also just makes me sad too because
Speaker 2: I remember when I signed my divorce papers. To this day,
Speaker 2: it's like doing our parenting plan. Seeing our kids' names
Speaker 2: on the parenting plan. That was that gutted me more
Speaker 2: than the price that I had to pay pay him.
Speaker 2: Like even though yes I still have resentment over the
Speaker 2: amount of child support and the payment, it's the fact
Speaker 2: that I had to see there's sweet little names on
Speaker 2: a piece of paper and having to divide like that
Speaker 2: was the part that I'm like, this is so, this
Speaker 2: is so sad, and this is so emotional and so
Speaker 2: hurtful and so personal. And then yeah, now it's public
Speaker 2: information and the people can see that, and it just
Speaker 2: makes me I don't know things like this. I'm just like,
Speaker 2: I don't want to see it. I don't want to know, Like,
Speaker 2: let that be, let that be private.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: I yes, number one, I agree, I think it is icky.
Speaker 3: The only thing I will tell you is that when
Speaker 3: I read this specific the specifics of their settlement, it
Speaker 3: sounded like it was they're getting shared custody. There are
Speaker 3: looks like everything down the middle besides what was the
Speaker 3: money that they made before the marriage and obviously after
Speaker 3: And it sounded like he got they sold the house,
Speaker 3: but he got the money for it.
Speaker 1: Sounded like.
Speaker 3: That it was I don't know for sure, but that
Speaker 3: it was it had been awful, but still they kind
Speaker 3: of split things right down the middle.
Speaker 1: They're both the kids. When the kids are on it,
Speaker 1: it seems very kids are right.
Speaker 3: Like when the kids are with one parent, that parent
Speaker 3: they trust each other enough that that parent make the
Speaker 3: decisions on the healthcare unless it's an emergency that you know,
Speaker 3: they and I guess she had said something really positive here.
Speaker 1: She said something I guess recently.
Speaker 3: Here's so a colorful past year filled with connection, growth, adventure, laughter, piece, sisterhood, transformation, rebirth, joy,
Speaker 3: and so much love. So that's unusual, right, and sending
Speaker 3: hugs to everyone going through it. So I hope from
Speaker 3: what I read, and you obviously never know, but it
Speaker 3: sounds like that they are working together, and they're gonna
Speaker 3: work together when it comes to making decisions about these
Speaker 3: kids and trust each other, which is not easy, right, No.
Speaker 1: Not at all.
Speaker 2: Scott Wolf addresses reunion with ex Kelly Wolf their kids
Speaker 2: a mid divorce so as the former couple moves forward
Speaker 2: in their divorce proceedings, The doc star addressed a photo
Speaker 2: he shared with his X and their kids. While I
Speaker 2: would never have wanted anything to have been made public,
Speaker 2: I guess I just it just felt like our family
Speaker 2: deserved to have things not just sit in some kind
Speaker 2: of awful dark place in terms of perception. While the
Speaker 2: work we're all doing is really the only thing that matters,
Speaker 2: it has been made public, he continued. While it's impossible
Speaker 2: to go into any real detail about much of any
Speaker 2: of it, I love all of these four people, and
Speaker 2: all of those four people love each other, and that's
Speaker 2: what matters. In fact, Scott was so sure to emphasize that.
Speaker 2: In the photo at the music park, he captioned it healing.
Speaker 2: Scott and Kelly navigate their new normal since they had
Speaker 2: broken up after twenty one years of marriage. Hugh Scott
Speaker 2: of abuse and child endangerment amid the proceedings of fifty
Speaker 2: year old slam the allegations, calling them entirely false and disturbing.
Speaker 2: There are some significant challenges that are making our situation
Speaker 2: incredibly difficult. It's tragic for all involved, he had said.
Speaker 2: Although her claims are completely baseless and incredibly dangerous, the
Speaker 2: worst part is that they are traumatic for our children.
Speaker 2: I hope that anyone who might speak public or publicly
Speaker 2: or report on such things will reconsider, will consider this
Speaker 2: before spreading any further information from a clearly unreliable and
Speaker 2: completely compromise source.
Speaker 1: Listen.
Speaker 2: I think it's again so sad when things get said
Speaker 2: that aren't true, then they're made public. Then there's certain perception,
Speaker 2: and people sometimes will only read just that headline and
Speaker 2: then have that perception of that person for the rest
Speaker 2: of their Internet scrolling life. They'll be like, Oh, that
Speaker 2: person did this, but then they don't know the context
Speaker 2: that he didn't do that or this didn't happen, And
Speaker 2: the fact that he shared this beautiful photo just shows
Speaker 2: his love for him his kids.
Speaker 3: Well, is the implication that they're trying to work things
Speaker 3: out or just they showed a nice photo. Again, you're right,
Speaker 3: what you just said is absolutely correct. We don't know
Speaker 3: the details, but what I did read about was her
Speaker 3: going a little bit off the deep end and that
Speaker 3: it got very, very contentious. So this is feels like
Speaker 3: a very happy moment. The fact that they would even
Speaker 3: be in a place where they could pose like this
Speaker 3: with all of them together, because it did not sound good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think it's showing a lot of grace
Speaker 2: on his side too, because if that isn't true, the
Speaker 2: fact that he's read I still love you and I
Speaker 2: know maybe you were going through something, and that just
Speaker 2: shows his heart and agreed. And then again his love
Speaker 2: for his children, which we've touched so much on about
Speaker 2: keeping that relationship one separate from your own internal frustrations
Speaker 2: with your partner.
Speaker 1: So plus, he's so damn cute that Scott Wilf. I
Speaker 1: just I just love him.
Speaker 2: You're too young, you know, like, oh no, I love
Speaker 2: he was great. I loved him.
Speaker 3: I mean I just loved him, and I felt badly
Speaker 3: for him throughout this whole thing and for her, but
Speaker 3: you know you do sometimes you don't have all of
Speaker 3: the details.
Speaker 1: But I thought this was a beautiful agreed. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of headlines to get through.
Speaker 2: We hope if you're going through divorces, this helped you
Speaker 2: to realize you aren't alone and if you need someone,
Speaker 2: I need some advice on how to navigate life in
Speaker 2: chapter two, call or email us all the infos in
Speaker 2: the show notes.
Speaker 1: Follow us on socials. Make sure to rate and review
Speaker 1: the podcast.
Speaker 2: I do Part two, an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in
Speaker 2: love is the main objective. Jennifer, it was so great
Speaker 2: to see you, catch up with you.
Speaker 1: I adore you. I just I think you're amazing. A
Speaker 1: great chat. I appreciate your friend the same. I think
Speaker 1: you're great. Tell your daughter, I said, Hi, I will