WEBVTT - Lisa Taddeo 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:07.160 Wow, I feel like you understand me so well. I'm 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:10.319 just like, does everybody feel this time with you? 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:13.640 I don't think so. I don't think so at all. 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:15.640 There's a few people I'd like you to call, actually 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:21.200 on my behalf. Hello, I'm mini driver. I've always loved 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:25.959 Preust's questionnaire. It was originally in nineteenth century parlor game 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:29.440 where players would ask each other thirty five questions aimed 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:31.040 at revealing. 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:34.280 The other player's true nature. In asking different people the 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:36.000 same set of questions. 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:39.200 You can make observations about which truths appear to be universal. 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:40.080 And it made me. 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:43.280 Wonder, what if these questions were just the jumping off point, 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.440 what greater depths would be revealed if I asked these 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:48.720 questions as conversation starters. 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:50.400 So I adapted. 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:52.720 Prus's questionnaire and I wrote my own seven questions that 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.400 I personally think are pertinent to a person's story. 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:57.280 They are when and where. 0:00:57.120 --> 0:00:59.880 Were you happiest? What is the quality you like least 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:04.440 about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you? 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:08.600 What question would you most like answered, What person, place, 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:11.600 or experience has shaped you the most? What would be 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:14.240 your last meal? And can you tell me something in 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:17.920 your life that's grown out of a personal disaster. And 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:22.440 I've gathered a group of really remarkable people, ones that 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:25.000 I am honored and humbled to have had the chance 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:27.640 to engage with. You may not hear their answers to 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:31.080 all seven of these questions. We've whittled it down to 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:35.440 which questions felt closest to their experience, or the most surprising, 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:41.399 or created the most fertile ground to connect. My guest 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:46.520 today is the author and great wit Lisa Today. Lisa 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:50.360 essentially writes books you can't put down. Her debut novel, 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:54.000 which is called Three Women, was released in twenty nineteen 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.640 and it was recently made into a pretty excellent show 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:58.920 on the television, and if you haven't read it, you 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:02.280 really need to. Her second novel was as good, and 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:04.600 it was called Animal, And she also has this brilliant 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:09.200 collection of short stories called Ghost Lover. Lisa has this 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:14.080 angular wit that is full of self reflection and candid observation. 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:17.400 She is ruthless in the way that she sees herself 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:21.480 and her idiosyncrasies, but so warm and funny and clever. 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.520 And hearing her speak about her beloved dad was one 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:27.880 of the best things I listened to last year. 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:30.520 I really hope you enjoy our conversation. 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:36.960 Someone called my face extremely square, which it is, but 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.240 that's not the point on an open post on my 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:41.960 Instagram the other day, and it really triggered me because 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:46.080 at school I was called fifty p face, which is 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:51.360 a hexagonal coin in the British lexicon of money. And 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:55.040 I realized my response really would have been yes, and 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.960 but these things from our childhood, they have fingers that 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:01.359 reach along into off eatues. 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:02.359 Wow. 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:05.239 That first of all, I just have to say, as 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:08.760 someone who grew up watching you and movies and thinking 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:11.920 you were the most beautiful woman ever, I don't see 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:15.440 the square face. But what's interesting is my husband said 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:18.040 that my teeth were not age appropriate. 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:20.239 Which is like a weird burn. 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:20.520 Right. 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:22.400 It's like a what does that mean? And I was 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:23.720 like what does that mean? He's like, well, that's just 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:26.200 such a husband was right, And I'm like, what does 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:26.520 that mean? 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:29.560 He's like, no, they're just they're younger than you. 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:33.040 I was like, they're like little girl teeth and you're 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:33.640 like a woman. 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:43.400 What person, place, or experience most altered your life. 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:44.960 The death of my father. 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:46.680 Oh bless him. 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:51.640 Yeah, he was in a car accident, and it was 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:56.920 it was shocked because it was someone who had promised 0:03:56.920 --> 0:03:58.840 me he would never die. 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:05.160 That was my dad, Daddy so fucked. 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:09.560 But just definitely that utterly changed everything. 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:11.200 Who are you before he died? 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:13.720 That was utterly You're going to make me cry? 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:15.960 Oh Angel, I don't. 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:17.440 I know, I do it all the time. 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.200 Don't worry about well, me too, But here I'm literally 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:21.400 supposed to be the grown up. 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:23.200 For as my son yelled. 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:26.320 At me one day, I don't know, you're the mummy 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:29.480 when he was five and I was crying. 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.640 And you're like, oh God, but not right now? Can 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.240 you just take care of me? Can I porepify you 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:38.760 for a second, because I exactly exactly. 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:40.360 I don't want to make you cry. 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:42.200 Angel, Tell me was I before? 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:44.440 Or tell me about your dad if that's easier. 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:47.520 My dad was a doctor. 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:52.240 He was the kind of doctor they don't make anymore where, 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:56.040 like you know, house calls and a leather doctor bag 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.880 going into the house. And at his funeral there were 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:02.479 like thousands of people on a block around like he 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:06.000 was just like one of those people who everyone in 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.040 a community was like. And to me, obviously it was 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:13.640 that plus everything else, plus I was scared about health stuff. 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:14.520 So like I just had like. 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.680 A all in one person who would literally put the 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:20.120 seatbelt on me when I would leave the house in 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:22.520 the morning to go to school. When I started driving, 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:24.840 he would click it in so he knew it was 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:27.560 on there, which is, you know, obviously ironic that he 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:30.760 was not wearing a seat belt in his accident anyway. 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:37.040 Before he died. I remember saying this to my boyfriend 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:38.400 at the time when he was like. 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:41.680 He was nervous about some medical thing, some issue, and 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:45.360 I was like, look, our bodies do things sometimes that 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.520 we just can't explain and we just can't think about it. 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:50.880 We just have to live in the present. That's who 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:53.599 I was before my dad. I was the person I'm 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:54.760 trying to get back to. 0:05:55.800 --> 0:06:04.960 Angel Oh okay, okay, like the mad woman living alongside 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:05.719 the wise woman. 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:09.919 She is still there, She's here. 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:15.600 Like as women we forget, we have this strange amnesia, 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:20.200 I believe, which is about having to exist as an 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:24.080 adult woman in this world with all of the things 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:26.520 that are taken away and that are suppressed. 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:30.320 And I feel you so hard. 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:34.640 About trying and wanting to and it feeling difficult to 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:37.599 return to that person that we were before the trauma 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:41.200 all the trauma happened. All I can tell you is 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:44.480 that even though my dad didn't die like that, I 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.400 want to get back to that little girl, but I 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:48.599 don't think she's gone anywhere. 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:51.159 Yeah, I agree. 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:53.200 It's very hard though, because it's very hard to like, 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:55.320 now you're a mum and you're a wife, and you've 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:56.680 got to do the shopping, and you've got to write 0:06:56.680 --> 0:06:59.440 the books, and you've got to have your reproductive rights 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:01.920 taken away, and you've got to walk down the street 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.840 and do the dry cleaning and the laundry. Yeah, and 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:08.920 also there's a little child waving in the distance that like, 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:11.800 we can't deal with it every day, but you do 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:14.360 it in your writing though, Like it feels like you 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:18.440 revisit so many beautiful things that you then examine, like 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:22.160 you're very gently turning over a rock and like looking 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:24.000 at it and looking at all the different ways that 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:27.040 it looks in a light. And that's how it feels 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:30.440 reading your books, is that I am examining life with you. 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:34.480 That is so cool. Thank you. That's my grandest hope. 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:35.840 So I'm glad to hear this. 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.480 Yeah, all right, we're going to move on from the snags. 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:45.760 It's going to make me write also, okay, where and 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:51.960 when were you happiest? My god, I no one's ever 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:54.400 laughed that hard like they like milk would have come 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.040 spurting out of your nose if I. 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:01.720 Can't even believe how hard you're laughing. She's laughing like 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:03.240 a benchie. 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:07.160 It's so funny because if you would ask me when 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:09.200 and where were you the status, I would have so 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:11.760 many things to go through, like a library, and I'm like, 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:14.480 which one do you want? Which of these beautiful bobbles 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:15.840 can I offer you? 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:18.880 When you asked me what I'm happy is? I do 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:20.280 know two things. 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:25.440 The first, the biggest one was when I was pregnant 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:28.200 with my daughter and they had found some other stuff 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:30.520 that I had to get more tests for that made 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:31.960 everything awful. 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:34.800 But at the same time. 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:36.680 That they were giving me the results of these tests, 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.920 they also told me that it was a girl, and 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:44.360 I wept so much, and I was able to feel 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:48.400 the joy about it being a girl, even though somebody 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:50.560 was telling me I might not be alive to see 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.800 her for very long after she was born because of 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.079 something they had found that ended up being okay, but 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:00.760 not till after she was born. Anyway, that moment, the 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:04.800 fact that I was able to experience joy within the 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.680 fear spiral that I was in is probably my happiest note. 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:13.600 Wow, that is a bubble within a bubble. 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:16.400 Were you wereware at the time this is pure joy 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:18.320 or were you just living it at what because it 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.960 was also existing along with this other really frightening news? 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:23.000 Yeah? 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:25.000 Or was it on reflection when you found out that 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.959 you were going to be fine and you could then 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:31.040 look back on it and find that joyful resonance. 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:35.000 That's a brilliant question. I think a little bit of both. 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:38.080 I think in the moment, I was shocked that I 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:41.080 was able to feel it. I remember feeling shocked at 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:44.880 feeling joy. Oh, so that's why it's something that really 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.319 I was just like whoa. And then I was telling 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.360 one of my friends, this the only time I can 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:53.200 get there, you know. And I tried different things for 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:55.400 depression and whatnot. The the way I can really get 0:09:55.440 --> 0:10:01.680 there is with nitrous oxide at the dentist. And I 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.199 was telling one of my friends that I liked and 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:05.880 I've been telling a lot of people I'm like, I 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:08.480 really like nitrous, you know, the dentists, and they're just like, 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:12.319 no one has circled around me like the way they 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:13.800 have with other things like. 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:15.160 Ketamine and mushrooms. 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:17.000 But they just like kind of let me sit there 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:19.160 with the nitrous thing, and I feel like a monster. 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:22.280 But then the other day one of my daughter's friend's 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:24.320 dads was like, oh he was British. 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:26.640 He's like, I fucking love that too. 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:34.720 Finally waits, what's your dentist's name? Actually I can't, I 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:36.720 can't do that, no, But I was just thinking do 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:40.640 you call up mister Reuben and saying I think I 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:44.360 got a cavity, it might be a rekanal. I think 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:48.400 I might need to come in. Do you have Munchenhausen dentists? 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:50.080 Because you want the nitrous. 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:54.040 I don't have that yet, but I'm looking. 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:57.679 I'm always looking at my taking taking applications. 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:01.000 You know, I don't currently have a provider. 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:03.319 That's really interesting. 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.720 So it's pretty dramatic, Like your moments of feeling happiness 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:11.920 are like joy within the context of what could actually 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:13.600 be a tragedy and. 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:16.600 Nitrous oxide. 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:20.560 Yes, is there somewhere in between as somebody who like 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:24.280 I think a lot of people live with sadness. Do 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:27.080 you become more or less aware of your happiness? Like 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:29.040 is it easy to try and forget about it? Or 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:31.520 do you just become When you see a robin in 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.839 your garden, do you go, oh, my god, a robin. 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:36.600 That makes me feel happy? Now back to the gloom. 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.080 I feel like I can cancel my therapy for a 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:42.280 while because I feel like these are really like I'm 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:45.240 just like thinking, like all I do is already think 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:46.280 about my mental state. 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:48.520 So the fact that I'm thinking even more about it 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:49.080 is shocking. 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:52.199 I'm very invested in your happiness. 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.160 Suddenly, I really am on your path to it, Like 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:56.280 this is great. 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:01.600 That's what my next book is about. It's my path 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:02.320 to something. 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:08.160 But when I'm sad, I am a yes, like you 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.080 were saying, there's people, And I feel this way that 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:14.520 there's two sides of the coin, the sort of people 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.440 who live on the side of Like when you said, 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:19.960 is there a robin in your garden that's beautiful? I 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.640 am looking outside at my backyard, which is very lovely, 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:27.839 especially in the fall, and it's magical, and I see 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:31.080 it through two different lenses. One of the way that 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:34.240 I would like to experience it of oh, there is 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:38.480 a robin on the wooden fence, on the beautiful patch 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:42.439 of grass with the marigolds there. How lovely that all 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:46.240 these things coalesced to form this perfect picture of fall 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:48.640 that I can enjoy. And then I'm like, there's people 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:50.760 who don't get to ever see that. So why am 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:54.200 I deserving? That this could all go away in an instant? 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:56.720 So what's the point of being happy about it? It 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:00.400 hurts more to lose it? And then the you ungrateful bitch, 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:02.880 how dare you? And then so that's the cycle of 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:04.160 seeing a robin. 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.080 I feel, I feel you. 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:13.840 Sometimes a robin just isn't allowed to be a robin exactly, 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:16.040 I see, yes. 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:19.480 And I think my experience of that, at least in 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:22.720 this current iteration of my life and with what is 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:26.440 going on out in the wide world, I think that 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:31.680 I feel like a failure for not not experiencing things. 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.040 But I think we all just experience things so differently, 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.400 and I think so many of us and not to 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.240 get all whatever, but part of the capitalist machine is 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:45.720 just doing the next thing, you know, and in order 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.320 to make everybody happy and make all the wheels turn, 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.800 there really isn't time for existentialism anymore, you know, they're 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.800 just social media has replaced existentialism. 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.520 It's so true, because you do you see somebody else, 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.520 you're like, oh my god, you're spiraling too goodness actually 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:02.439 alone exactly exactly. 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:04.480 But then you also see all the people who are 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.560 just plowing through like everything's fine, and you're like, which 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:08.200 one do I do? 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:11.480 Yeah? I suppose that is always the choice. Huh it's 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:12.640 that Robert Frost poem. 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:13.600 Yes, exactly. 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:15.480 Yeah, I came to a fork in the woods on. 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.400 A snowy Yeah, and I took the path less travel line, 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:20.600 and that has made all the difference, has it? 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.560 Yeah? Exactly? Has it? Has it? 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:25.040 Though? But has it? 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:28.360 Like seriously Robert has it? 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:32.800 Has it? Because I don't know exactly? 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.360 And I think in this business, of which I am 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.960 a very nascent member, but you know, even in the 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:42.640 book world and stuff, there is such an element of 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:46.040 the show must go on. And that's true of everything. 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:49.200 And I don't just mean like current situations aside. I 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:51.480 mean in general, the show must go on is the 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:55.040 name of the game. And anyone who sort of doesn't 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:59.520 want the show to go on, you either get left over, there. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.080 Way that I say that my husband and daughter sometimes 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.640 handle my depression is just by stepping over it, like 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:07.880 it's a dead body on the floor onto the. 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:12.040 Next event, like, okay, is mom coming up? I love 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:12.440 to drag. 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.560 So that's so strange as well, like the idea of 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:23.560 it being other than you, like mom's dead body, that 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.920 they have to step away, like it's sort of, oh, 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:28.640 let's put it in the second person so it isn't 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:29.560 actually happening to me. 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:32.240 Which is helpful, which is something I should perhaps by the. 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:34.280 Way, I think I might have said this on here before, 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:36.960 but my editor, she is the most incredible woman. She's 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:38.840 very briefly my editor, and she gave me this incredible note. 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:39.840 She was like, I want you to look up the 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:43.520 emotional places in your book where you suddenly go into 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:47.760 the second person, where you know when you're feeling agonized, 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:49.480 where your heart is breaking, you know when you feel 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:51.480 like a dead body that people are stepping up, And 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:53.240 she said, I just want you to just just just 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:55.840 for a laugh, put it all into the first person. 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:58.000 And I wrote it and I literally felt like I 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.280 was going to throw up as I was writing my 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.800 heart is breaking, I feel like a dead body people 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:09.800 stepping over Like it was so interesting psychologically, and now 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.520 I start thinking, now I do it with passages of 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:14.200 bits that I'm writing. 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.120 If I don't feel connected, I'll just throw it. 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:21.200 Into a different EOV exactly, Yeah, and see if that 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.520 shifts that. Maybe that's a trick that all writers know. 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.120 But it was so we do it as women though 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:28.400 my friends do it. Yes, my girlfriends do it, and 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:32.000 I now stop them and go, you're saying you, and 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.360 I know you mean I, and I think if you 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:36.840 say I, we can be in the room with us more. 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:37.960 Yeah. 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:41.520 That's so interesting, and it's something just from the writing 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:42.360 angle of it. 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:44.920 I think about all the time. 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:47.320 Like most of the time, I'm not that excited to 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.920 talk about like the quote unquote craft things because I 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:53.080 feel like I've got so much other stuff going. 0:16:53.400 --> 0:17:01.720 But that is the one thing that I think I've got, Robinster, 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:03.080 That's that's phenomenal. 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:12.000 I love asking a fiction writer, this, what relationship, real 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.119 or fictionalized defines love for you. 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:21.320 Fictionalized was Carrie Elways and Robin Wright and the Princess Bride. 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:25.040 That's what told me what love is. And then I 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:28.560 have to say, my husband and I. We fight literally 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:30.639 every single day. There is not a day that our 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:35.240 daughter doesn't say, this is the stupidest thing I've ever 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:36.800 heard anyone argue about. 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:38.320 Can you guys stop? 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:40.760 Because it was like about the coffee maker and he's 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:45.040 like logical and autistic and ADHD and I have OCDS, 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:49.159 so we have all these dueling mental illnesss with it, 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:53.080 argue with each other, alongside child wounds and all of that. 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:56.520 But I have to say that the love that he 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:59.920 has for me, that he says I'm not living in 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.720 our actual love story yet but he will wait there 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:07.040 until I do that is I gotta say. I really 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:10.480 like that. It feels like the most real love story 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:13.720 available to me. He also at one point said, don't worry. 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:16.720 One day you're gonna get all the little things done 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.000 that are on your little lists, and we're going to 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.760 have one day where we're happy and you're happy, and 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:23.760 that day is going to come. 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:25.120 So let's just live your life. 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:27.840 Keep doing what you're doing and being sad and thinking 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:31.000 and not trusting me and thinking nothing's real, and one 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:32.600 day you're going to be able to enjoy it all 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:33.600 and then we'll die. 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:37.880 Oh my god, Oh my god. I love your husband. 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:39.560 It's that roomy quote again. 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:40.119 Yeah. 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:43.359 Here it is out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and right doing, 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.280 There is a field. I'll meet you there while the 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:49.400 soul lies down in the grass. The world is too 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:53.240 full to talk about ideas language. Even the phrase each 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:57.360 other doesn't make any sense. Oh, oh my god, that's 0:18:57.400 --> 0:18:59.240 your husband. I love that. 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:05.639 We'll see if it's actually. 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:09.239 Exactly that's the thing. It's like, I don't know that 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:11.239 when you trust, we don't know. 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:13.879 It's so funny because that is an everyday occurrence. It 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.679 seems to me trusting you wake up every day and 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:19.919 you go and you do a situational assessment. Can I 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:23.120 trust that this is breakfast and everything is okay? 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:26.080 All right? I can. That's as good as it gets. 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:30.160 Sometimes I think blanket trust is not actually functional possible. 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:31.560 It's really not. 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:36.280 But I think people always say that it is. My 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.200 husband's therapist had said to him the reason that when 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:41.159 he was afraid to fly. He's like, it's because you 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:44.919 don't trust the pilot. And it's like, well, why should. 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:46.720 Why don't we know the pilot? 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:49.600 I never met him, Like what, I should trust the 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:52.280 pilot because that's his job. Should I trust the doctor 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:54.320 that messed up my knee surgery? And now I need 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:57.600 a full replate, like should I trust them implicitly? Should 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:01.360 we just trust people? Because I've trusted people and had 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:03.879 a lot of things left up about it. So it's like, 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:05.560 you know, went into a meeting the other day and 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:07.800 the person was like, well, you know, I might not 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:10.520 want to say that because you know, people always sue 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.520 us for stealing their ideas, And I'm like, well, I'm 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:15.560 just going to go into this blindly trusting like I've 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:17.879 done everything else, and see how that works for me, 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:20.120 because I just can't do it any other way. 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:21.720