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Speaker 1: Wow, I feel like you understand me so well. I'm

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Speaker 1: just like, does everybody feel this time with you?

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Speaker 2: I don't think so. I don't think so at all.

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Speaker 2: There's a few people I'd like you to call, actually

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Speaker 2: on my behalf. Hello, I'm mini driver. I've always loved

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Speaker 2: Preust's questionnaire. It was originally in nineteenth century parlor game

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Speaker 2: where players would ask each other thirty five questions aimed

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Speaker 2: at revealing.

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Speaker 3: The other player's true nature. In asking different people the

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Speaker 3: same set of questions.

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Speaker 2: You can make observations about which truths appear to be universal.

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Speaker 3: And it made me.

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Speaker 2: Wonder, what if these questions were just the jumping off point,

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Speaker 2: what greater depths would be revealed if I asked these

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Speaker 2: questions as conversation starters.

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Speaker 3: So I adapted.

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Speaker 2: Prus's questionnaire and I wrote my own seven questions that

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Speaker 2: I personally think are pertinent to a person's story.

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Speaker 3: They are when and where.

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Speaker 2: Were you happiest? What is the quality you like least

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Speaker 2: about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you?

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Speaker 2: What question would you most like answered, What person, place,

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Speaker 2: or experience has shaped you the most? What would be

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Speaker 2: your last meal? And can you tell me something in

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Speaker 2: your life that's grown out of a personal disaster. And

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Speaker 2: I've gathered a group of really remarkable people, ones that

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Speaker 2: I am honored and humbled to have had the chance

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Speaker 2: to engage with. You may not hear their answers to

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Speaker 2: all seven of these questions. We've whittled it down to

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Speaker 2: which questions felt closest to their experience, or the most surprising,

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Speaker 2: or created the most fertile ground to connect. My guest

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Speaker 2: today is the author and great wit Lisa Today. Lisa

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Speaker 2: essentially writes books you can't put down. Her debut novel,

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Speaker 2: which is called Three Women, was released in twenty nineteen

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Speaker 2: and it was recently made into a pretty excellent show

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Speaker 2: on the television, and if you haven't read it, you

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Speaker 2: really need to. Her second novel was as good, and

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Speaker 2: it was called Animal, And she also has this brilliant

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Speaker 2: collection of short stories called Ghost Lover. Lisa has this

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Speaker 2: angular wit that is full of self reflection and candid observation.

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Speaker 2: She is ruthless in the way that she sees herself

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Speaker 2: and her idiosyncrasies, but so warm and funny and clever.

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Speaker 2: And hearing her speak about her beloved dad was one

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Speaker 2: of the best things I listened to last year.

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Speaker 3: I really hope you enjoy our conversation.

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Speaker 2: Someone called my face extremely square, which it is, but

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Speaker 2: that's not the point on an open post on my

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Speaker 2: Instagram the other day, and it really triggered me because

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Speaker 2: at school I was called fifty p face, which is

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Speaker 2: a hexagonal coin in the British lexicon of money. And

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Speaker 2: I realized my response really would have been yes, and

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Speaker 2: but these things from our childhood, they have fingers that

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Speaker 2: reach along into off eatues.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 1: That first of all, I just have to say, as

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Speaker 1: someone who grew up watching you and movies and thinking

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Speaker 1: you were the most beautiful woman ever, I don't see

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Speaker 1: the square face. But what's interesting is my husband said

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Speaker 1: that my teeth were not age appropriate.

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Speaker 4: Which is like a weird burn.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: It's like a what does that mean? And I was

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Speaker 4: like what does that mean? He's like, well, that's just

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Speaker 4: such a husband was right, And I'm like, what does

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Speaker 4: that mean?

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Speaker 1: He's like, no, they're just they're younger than you.

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Speaker 4: I was like, they're like little girl teeth and you're

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Speaker 4: like a woman.

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Speaker 2: What person, place, or experience most altered your life.

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Speaker 4: The death of my father.

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Speaker 3: Oh bless him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he was in a car accident, and it was

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Speaker 1: it was shocked because it was someone who had promised

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Speaker 1: me he would never die.

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Speaker 3: That was my dad, Daddy so fucked.

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Speaker 4: But just definitely that utterly changed everything.

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Speaker 3: Who are you before he died?

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Speaker 4: That was utterly You're going to make me cry?

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Speaker 3: Oh Angel, I don't.

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Speaker 4: I know, I do it all the time.

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Speaker 2: Don't worry about well, me too, But here I'm literally

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Speaker 2: supposed to be the grown up.

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Speaker 3: For as my son yelled.

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Speaker 2: At me one day, I don't know, you're the mummy

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Speaker 2: when he was five and I was crying.

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Speaker 1: And you're like, oh God, but not right now? Can

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Speaker 1: you just take care of me? Can I porepify you

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Speaker 1: for a second, because I exactly exactly.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to make you cry.

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Speaker 4: Angel, Tell me was I before?

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Speaker 3: Or tell me about your dad if that's easier.

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Speaker 4: My dad was a doctor.

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Speaker 1: He was the kind of doctor they don't make anymore where,

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Speaker 1: like you know, house calls and a leather doctor bag

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Speaker 1: going into the house. And at his funeral there were

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Speaker 1: like thousands of people on a block around like he

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Speaker 1: was just like one of those people who everyone in

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Speaker 1: a community was like. And to me, obviously it was

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Speaker 1: that plus everything else, plus I was scared about health stuff.

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Speaker 4: So like I just had like.

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Speaker 1: A all in one person who would literally put the

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Speaker 1: seatbelt on me when I would leave the house in

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Speaker 1: the morning to go to school. When I started driving,

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Speaker 1: he would click it in so he knew it was

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Speaker 1: on there, which is, you know, obviously ironic that he

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Speaker 1: was not wearing a seat belt in his accident anyway.

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Speaker 4: Before he died. I remember saying this to my boyfriend

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Speaker 4: at the time when he was like.

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Speaker 1: He was nervous about some medical thing, some issue, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, look, our bodies do things sometimes that

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Speaker 1: we just can't explain and we just can't think about it.

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Speaker 1: We just have to live in the present. That's who

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Speaker 1: I was before my dad. I was the person I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to get back to.

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Speaker 2: Angel Oh okay, okay, like the mad woman living alongside

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Speaker 2: the wise woman.

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Speaker 3: She is still there, She's here.

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Speaker 2: Like as women we forget, we have this strange amnesia,

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Speaker 2: I believe, which is about having to exist as an

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Speaker 2: adult woman in this world with all of the things

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Speaker 2: that are taken away and that are suppressed.

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Speaker 3: And I feel you so hard.

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Speaker 2: About trying and wanting to and it feeling difficult to

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Speaker 2: return to that person that we were before the trauma

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Speaker 2: all the trauma happened. All I can tell you is

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Speaker 2: that even though my dad didn't die like that, I

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Speaker 2: want to get back to that little girl, but I

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Speaker 2: don't think she's gone anywhere.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree.

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Speaker 2: It's very hard though, because it's very hard to like,

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Speaker 2: now you're a mum and you're a wife, and you've

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Speaker 2: got to do the shopping, and you've got to write

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Speaker 2: the books, and you've got to have your reproductive rights

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Speaker 2: taken away, and you've got to walk down the street

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Speaker 2: and do the dry cleaning and the laundry. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: also there's a little child waving in the distance that like,

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Speaker 2: we can't deal with it every day, but you do

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Speaker 2: it in your writing though, Like it feels like you

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Speaker 2: revisit so many beautiful things that you then examine, like

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Speaker 2: you're very gently turning over a rock and like looking

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Speaker 2: at it and looking at all the different ways that

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Speaker 2: it looks in a light. And that's how it feels

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Speaker 2: reading your books, is that I am examining life with you.

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Speaker 4: That is so cool. Thank you. That's my grandest hope.

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Speaker 4: So I'm glad to hear this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, we're going to move on from the snags.

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Speaker 2: It's going to make me write also, okay, where and

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Speaker 2: when were you happiest? My god, I no one's ever

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Speaker 2: laughed that hard like they like milk would have come

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Speaker 2: spurting out of your nose if I.

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Speaker 3: Can't even believe how hard you're laughing. She's laughing like

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Speaker 3: a benchie.

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Speaker 1: It's so funny because if you would ask me when

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Speaker 1: and where were you the status, I would have so

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Speaker 1: many things to go through, like a library, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: which one do you want? Which of these beautiful bobbles

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Speaker 1: can I offer you?

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Speaker 4: When you asked me what I'm happy is? I do

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Speaker 4: know two things.

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Speaker 1: The first, the biggest one was when I was pregnant

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Speaker 1: with my daughter and they had found some other stuff

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Speaker 1: that I had to get more tests for that made

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Speaker 1: everything awful.

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Speaker 4: But at the same time.

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Speaker 1: That they were giving me the results of these tests,

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Speaker 1: they also told me that it was a girl, and

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Speaker 1: I wept so much, and I was able to feel

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Speaker 1: the joy about it being a girl, even though somebody

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Speaker 1: was telling me I might not be alive to see

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Speaker 1: her for very long after she was born because of

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Speaker 1: something they had found that ended up being okay, but

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Speaker 1: not till after she was born. Anyway, that moment, the

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Speaker 1: fact that I was able to experience joy within the

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Speaker 1: fear spiral that I was in is probably my happiest note.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that is a bubble within a bubble.

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Speaker 2: Were you wereware at the time this is pure joy

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Speaker 2: or were you just living it at what because it

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Speaker 2: was also existing along with this other really frightening news?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Or was it on reflection when you found out that

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Speaker 2: you were going to be fine and you could then

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Speaker 2: look back on it and find that joyful resonance.

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Speaker 1: That's a brilliant question. I think a little bit of both.

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Speaker 1: I think in the moment, I was shocked that I

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Speaker 1: was able to feel it. I remember feeling shocked at

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Speaker 1: feeling joy. Oh, so that's why it's something that really

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Speaker 1: I was just like whoa. And then I was telling

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Speaker 1: one of my friends, this the only time I can

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Speaker 1: get there, you know. And I tried different things for

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Speaker 1: depression and whatnot. The the way I can really get

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Speaker 1: there is with nitrous oxide at the dentist. And I

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Speaker 1: was telling one of my friends that I liked and

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Speaker 1: I've been telling a lot of people I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: really like nitrous, you know, the dentists, and they're just like,

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Speaker 1: no one has circled around me like the way they

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Speaker 1: have with other things like.

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Speaker 4: Ketamine and mushrooms.

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Speaker 1: But they just like kind of let me sit there

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Speaker 1: with the nitrous thing, and I feel like a monster.

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Speaker 1: But then the other day one of my daughter's friend's

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Speaker 1: dads was like, oh he was British.

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Speaker 4: He's like, I fucking love that too.

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Speaker 2: Finally waits, what's your dentist's name? Actually I can't, I

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Speaker 2: can't do that, no, But I was just thinking do

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Speaker 2: you call up mister Reuben and saying I think I

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Speaker 2: got a cavity, it might be a rekanal. I think

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Speaker 2: I might need to come in. Do you have Munchenhausen dentists?

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Speaker 2: Because you want the nitrous.

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Speaker 4: I don't have that yet, but I'm looking.

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Speaker 1: I'm always looking at my taking taking applications.

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Speaker 4: You know, I don't currently have a provider.

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Speaker 3: That's really interesting.

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Speaker 2: So it's pretty dramatic, Like your moments of feeling happiness

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Speaker 2: are like joy within the context of what could actually

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Speaker 2: be a tragedy and.

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Speaker 3: Nitrous oxide.

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Speaker 2: Yes, is there somewhere in between as somebody who like

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of people live with sadness. Do

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Speaker 2: you become more or less aware of your happiness? Like

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Speaker 2: is it easy to try and forget about it? Or

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Speaker 2: do you just become When you see a robin in

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Speaker 2: your garden, do you go, oh, my god, a robin.

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Speaker 3: That makes me feel happy? Now back to the gloom.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I can cancel my therapy for a

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Speaker 1: while because I feel like these are really like I'm

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Speaker 1: just like thinking, like all I do is already think

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Speaker 1: about my mental state.

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Speaker 4: So the fact that I'm thinking even more about it

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Speaker 4: is shocking.

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Speaker 3: I'm very invested in your happiness.

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Speaker 2: Suddenly, I really am on your path to it, Like

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Speaker 2: this is great.

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Speaker 4: That's what my next book is about. It's my path

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Speaker 4: to something.

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Speaker 1: But when I'm sad, I am a yes, like you

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Speaker 1: were saying, there's people, And I feel this way that

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Speaker 1: there's two sides of the coin, the sort of people

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Speaker 1: who live on the side of Like when you said,

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Speaker 1: is there a robin in your garden that's beautiful? I

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Speaker 1: am looking outside at my backyard, which is very lovely,

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Speaker 1: especially in the fall, and it's magical, and I see

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Speaker 1: it through two different lenses. One of the way that

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Speaker 1: I would like to experience it of oh, there is

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Speaker 1: a robin on the wooden fence, on the beautiful patch

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Speaker 1: of grass with the marigolds there. How lovely that all

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Speaker 1: these things coalesced to form this perfect picture of fall

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Speaker 1: that I can enjoy. And then I'm like, there's people

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Speaker 1: who don't get to ever see that. So why am

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Speaker 1: I deserving? That this could all go away in an instant?

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Speaker 1: So what's the point of being happy about it? It

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Speaker 1: hurts more to lose it? And then the you ungrateful bitch,

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Speaker 1: how dare you? And then so that's the cycle of

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Speaker 1: seeing a robin.

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Speaker 3: I feel, I feel you.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes a robin just isn't allowed to be a robin exactly,

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Speaker 2: I see, yes.

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Speaker 1: And I think my experience of that, at least in

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Speaker 1: this current iteration of my life and with what is

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Speaker 1: going on out in the wide world, I think that

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Speaker 1: I feel like a failure for not not experiencing things.

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Speaker 1: But I think we all just experience things so differently,

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Speaker 1: and I think so many of us and not to

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Speaker 1: get all whatever, but part of the capitalist machine is

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Speaker 1: just doing the next thing, you know, and in order

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Speaker 1: to make everybody happy and make all the wheels turn,

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Speaker 1: there really isn't time for existentialism anymore, you know, they're

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Speaker 1: just social media has replaced existentialism.

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Speaker 2: It's so true, because you do you see somebody else,

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Speaker 2: you're like, oh my god, you're spiraling too goodness actually

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Speaker 2: alone exactly exactly.

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Speaker 1: But then you also see all the people who are

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Speaker 1: just plowing through like everything's fine, and you're like, which

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Speaker 1: one do I do?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I suppose that is always the choice. Huh it's

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Speaker 2: that Robert Frost poem.

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Speaker 4: Yes, exactly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I came to a fork in the woods on.

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Speaker 1: A snowy Yeah, and I took the path less travel line,

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Speaker 1: and that has made all the difference, has it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Exactly? Has it? Has it?

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Speaker 4: Though? But has it?

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Speaker 3: Like seriously Robert has it?

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Speaker 4: Has it? Because I don't know exactly?

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Speaker 1: And I think in this business, of which I am

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Speaker 1: a very nascent member, but you know, even in the

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Speaker 1: book world and stuff, there is such an element of

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Speaker 1: the show must go on. And that's true of everything.

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Speaker 1: And I don't just mean like current situations aside. I

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Speaker 1: mean in general, the show must go on is the

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Speaker 1: name of the game. And anyone who sort of doesn't

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Speaker 1: want the show to go on, you either get left over, there.

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Speaker 1: Way that I say that my husband and daughter sometimes

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Speaker 1: handle my depression is just by stepping over it, like

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Speaker 1: it's a dead body on the floor onto the.

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Speaker 4: Next event, like, okay, is mom coming up? I love

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Speaker 4: to drag.

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Speaker 2: So that's so strange as well, like the idea of

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Speaker 2: it being other than you, like mom's dead body, that

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Speaker 2: they have to step away, like it's sort of, oh,

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Speaker 2: let's put it in the second person so it isn't

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Speaker 2: actually happening to me.

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Speaker 4: Which is helpful, which is something I should perhaps by the.

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Speaker 2: Way, I think I might have said this on here before,

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Speaker 2: but my editor, she is the most incredible woman. She's

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Speaker 2: very briefly my editor, and she gave me this incredible note.

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Speaker 2: She was like, I want you to look up the

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Speaker 2: emotional places in your book where you suddenly go into

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Speaker 2: the second person, where you know when you're feeling agonized,

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Speaker 2: where your heart is breaking, you know when you feel

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Speaker 2: like a dead body that people are stepping up, And

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Speaker 2: she said, I just want you to just just just

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Speaker 2: for a laugh, put it all into the first person.

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Speaker 2: And I wrote it and I literally felt like I

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Speaker 2: was going to throw up as I was writing my

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Speaker 2: heart is breaking, I feel like a dead body people

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Speaker 2: stepping over Like it was so interesting psychologically, and now

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Speaker 2: I start thinking, now I do it with passages of

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Speaker 2: bits that I'm writing.

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Speaker 3: If I don't feel connected, I'll just throw it.

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Speaker 2: Into a different EOV exactly, Yeah, and see if that

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Speaker 2: shifts that. Maybe that's a trick that all writers know.

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Speaker 2: But it was so we do it as women though

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Speaker 2: my friends do it. Yes, my girlfriends do it, and

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Speaker 2: I now stop them and go, you're saying you, and

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Speaker 2: I know you mean I, and I think if you

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Speaker 2: say I, we can be in the room with us more.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That's so interesting, and it's something just from the writing

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Speaker 1: angle of it.

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Speaker 4: I think about all the time.

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Speaker 1: Like most of the time, I'm not that excited to

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Speaker 1: talk about like the quote unquote craft things because I

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Speaker 1: feel like I've got so much other stuff going.

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Speaker 4: But that is the one thing that I think I've got, Robinster,

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Speaker 4: That's that's phenomenal.

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Speaker 2: I love asking a fiction writer, this, what relationship, real

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Speaker 2: or fictionalized defines love for you.

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Speaker 1: Fictionalized was Carrie Elways and Robin Wright and the Princess Bride.

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Speaker 1: That's what told me what love is. And then I

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Speaker 1: have to say, my husband and I. We fight literally

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Speaker 1: every single day. There is not a day that our

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Speaker 1: daughter doesn't say, this is the stupidest thing I've ever

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Speaker 1: heard anyone argue about.

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Speaker 4: Can you guys stop?

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Speaker 1: Because it was like about the coffee maker and he's

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Speaker 1: like logical and autistic and ADHD and I have OCDS,

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Speaker 1: so we have all these dueling mental illnesss with it,

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Speaker 1: argue with each other, alongside child wounds and all of that.

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Speaker 1: But I have to say that the love that he

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Speaker 1: has for me, that he says I'm not living in

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Speaker 1: our actual love story yet but he will wait there

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Speaker 1: until I do that is I gotta say. I really

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Speaker 1: like that. It feels like the most real love story

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Speaker 1: available to me. He also at one point said, don't worry.

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Speaker 1: One day you're gonna get all the little things done

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Speaker 1: that are on your little lists, and we're going to

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Speaker 1: have one day where we're happy and you're happy, and

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Speaker 1: that day is going to come.

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Speaker 4: So let's just live your life.

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Speaker 1: Keep doing what you're doing and being sad and thinking

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Speaker 1: and not trusting me and thinking nothing's real, and one

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Speaker 1: day you're going to be able to enjoy it all

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Speaker 1: and then we'll die.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, Oh my god. I love your husband.

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Speaker 3: It's that roomy quote again.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Here it is out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and right doing,

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Speaker 2: There is a field. I'll meet you there while the

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Speaker 2: soul lies down in the grass. The world is too

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Speaker 2: full to talk about ideas language. Even the phrase each

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Speaker 2: other doesn't make any sense. Oh, oh my god, that's

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Speaker 2: your husband. I love that.

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Speaker 3: We'll see if it's actually.

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Speaker 4: Exactly that's the thing. It's like, I don't know that

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Speaker 4: when you trust, we don't know.

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Speaker 2: It's so funny because that is an everyday occurrence. It

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Speaker 2: seems to me trusting you wake up every day and

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Speaker 2: you go and you do a situational assessment. Can I

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Speaker 2: trust that this is breakfast and everything is okay?

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Speaker 3: All right? I can. That's as good as it gets.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes I think blanket trust is not actually functional possible.

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Speaker 4: It's really not.

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Speaker 1: But I think people always say that it is. My

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Speaker 1: husband's therapist had said to him the reason that when

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Speaker 1: he was afraid to fly. He's like, it's because you

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Speaker 1: don't trust the pilot. And it's like, well, why should.

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Speaker 4: Why don't we know the pilot?

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Speaker 1: I never met him, Like what, I should trust the

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Speaker 1: pilot because that's his job. Should I trust the doctor

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Speaker 1: that messed up my knee surgery? And now I need

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Speaker 1: a full replate, like should I trust them implicitly? Should

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Speaker 1: we just trust people? Because I've trusted people and had

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Speaker 1: a lot of things left up about it. So it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, went into a meeting the other day and

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Speaker 1: the person was like, well, you know, I might not

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Speaker 1: want to say that because you know, people always sue

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Speaker 1: us for stealing their ideas, And I'm like, well, I'm

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Speaker 1: just going to go into this blindly trusting like I've

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Speaker 1: done everything else, and see how that works for me,

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Speaker 1: because I just can't do it any other way.

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Speaker 3: I listen, I am with you.

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Speaker 2: I will make a choice to trust even though life

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Speaker 2: proves over and over again that shit often doesn't work out.

404
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:29,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just don't think that's the point.

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Speaker 2: I think you have to take that as shit is

406
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Speaker 2: not going to work out for the most part, but

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Speaker 2: the times that it does are going to be so great,

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Speaker 2: and something usually comes It dovetails into the last question

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Speaker 2: I ask on this podcast. Invariably something comes out of

410
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Speaker 2: the shit. That's not a reason to pursue it, but

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Speaker 2: it's definitely worth keeping in mind.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's vital to keep in mind.

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Speaker 2: In fact, I'm nervous to ask you what is the

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Speaker 2: quality you like least about yourself?

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Speaker 3: Because but what is the quality you like least about yourself?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 1: I think my addiction to my fear. I think I'm

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Speaker 1: addicted to my fear. And I think that I don't

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Speaker 1: think I've made a conscious decision to let go of it,

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Speaker 1: because I still believe it protects me even though it doesn't.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So.

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Speaker 2: Who is the you knowing that, mannie?

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure that out. I'm like, who am

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Speaker 1: I without the fear? I say this to my husband

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Speaker 1: all the time. He's like, you just got to let

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Speaker 1: go of it. I'm like, if I let go of that,

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Speaker 1: there'll be nothing here.

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Speaker 2: But the person, the person who is here observing that

429
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,439
Speaker 2: you sitting here talking to me. Yeah, is that like

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Speaker 2: a psychological shift? Is that maybe because you're a writer

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00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 2: where you can actually you shift the pav even on

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Speaker 2: your own experience, by going, I do this thing. I

433
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 2: am addicted to fear. I think I will not be

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Speaker 2: protected if I let go of it. Who is that

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Speaker 2: person talking? Who is talking that sense? Because we all

436
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 2: have that and I want to fucking know who she

437
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 2: is because all those people should get together and have tea.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, and those people should stick.

439
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 3: Around and keep the wheels on the wagon, exactly.

440
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Speaker 1: And that's one of the reasons why I write is

441
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Speaker 1: to remember that, Like when I look back and see

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Speaker 1: words that I've written when I'm in a clearer state,

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Speaker 1: it feels a little bit helpful.

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Speaker 4: But it also feels like who is that?

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Speaker 1: Like you just said, I know how to have self

446
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 1: awareness about what I'm doing, and then I know what

447
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 1: I'm like when I'm in the cargo holds of indefensible fear.

448
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 4: And fatrid and shame. But I don't know where the

449
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 4: twain meet. But that is a.

450
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 1: Really that's a great like the person who's like I

451
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: want to think the robinsful, like where is the exactly?

452
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 2: Or maybe it's just about like she is there, like

453
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 2: when you look back or when I read your books

454
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 2: and I feel your clarity. She is there, like she

455
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 2: is demonstrably there. So perhaps it's not so much like

456
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 2: how do I find her and make her stick around?

457
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 2: It's more about.

458
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 3: Going, No, she is there. It's the statue inside the marble.

459
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 2: There is all this other stuff around her, and maybe

460
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 2: it's about and I'm saying this generally because this is

461
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 2: not you in isolation. I am fascinated, like, and this

462
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,959
Speaker 2: conversation has triggered this thing that I think about at

463
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 2: four o'clock in the morning, which is the wise woman

464
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 2: who talks to us and calms us, and we call

465
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:45,919
Speaker 2: her our self awareness.

466
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 3: She is real. She is as real as our fear.

467
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 3: She is as real as.

468
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 2: Our negative slaggy old slagface. He tells us that we're

469
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 2: square face and.

470
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 4: Teeth is so much better. I feel like that's such

471
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 4: a better jew V. That's really good.

472
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,880
Speaker 3: That's it because gvteth is as mean as.

473
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 4: Tiftyp face, Like yeah, totally.

474
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,239
Speaker 3: Anyway, maybe that's it.

475
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 2: Maybe we just have to leave room for that clarity

476
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 2: when you look back, instead of going, oh, I was

477
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 2: so clear, it's yeah, but she is there. She's living

478
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 2: alongside the mad woman, and that's maybe that's all right.

479
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 4: That's absolutely beautiful.

480
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 1: I need to write that down because I feel like,

481
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 1: just for my own like the mad Woman, like the

482
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: Jane Eyre you know whatever, and the attic living yes,

483
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: and it's okay, you know, I'm literally writing that down

484
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: because I just feel like it'll remind me that it's okay,

485
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: like the whole shadow aspect of.

486
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 4: Ourselves making room for them.

487
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 1: But what's so interesting is the POV stuff in writing,

488
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,360
Speaker 1: which I think is so fascinating. What you were saying

489
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: about the idea of turning it on yourself and saying

490
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: I and then feeling the eye of that. I wrote

491
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: a short story when I was getting my MFA at

492
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 1: Boston University, and the short story was completely in the

493
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: second person.

494
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 4: And this other writer because you know, you go around the.

495
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: Room and critique everyone's writing, and it was very aggressive.

496
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 4: You do this because you.

497
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: It was like the character themselves was a sort of

498
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: bad person, not bad, just like flawed human, et cetera.

499
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 4: Not bad, but you know, president.

500
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 3: Whatever, President, Yes.

501
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,199
Speaker 1: But this other writer in the class was like, I

502
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: felt so aggressed upon by Lisa's story because it was

503
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: like you take the subway to blah blah blah because

504
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: you feel like that girl doesn't deserve whatever. Like it

505
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: was all this and I was just like so fascinated

506
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,959
Speaker 1: by that that she had felt and I kind of

507
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: was the feeling I wanted to elicit, but that she

508
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: had felt that, and the you of it had even

509
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: though we were in a writing class and writing in

510
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 1: the second person, is you know, well something that people do.

511
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,239
Speaker 1: I just remember her feeling that way, and when you

512
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: said that, your editor gave you that note and you

513
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,479
Speaker 1: put it back on the eye, and I just I

514
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: was wondering, like about doing that with that even though

515
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: it's gone.

516
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 4: But you know, it's just a really interesting thing.

517
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 3: It is.

518
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 2: Listen the POV Like, I asked that quite a lot,

519
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 2: like who is the POV four? Is it for me

520
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 2: to create distance from the scary things I'm saying that

521
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 2: maybe they're not fiction, maybe they're real. Or is it

522
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 2: because I think it's a cool tool. Yeah, quite interesting

523
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 2: just to I don't know. Maybe it's just about the

524
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 2: interrogation of it.

525
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, totally. I think everything is about that.

526
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 3: So what question would you most like? Answered?

527
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 4: God, I'm going to give you something that's rather dark to.

528
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 3: I wouldn't expect anything less.

529
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 4: Thank you for my next book.

530
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: It's about shocker grief, the grief of being alive essentially,

531
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: not the grief of being alive like full stop, but

532
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 1: the grief that comes with just consciousness, whether it's mental

533
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: illness or all of that. And one of the people

534
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: I've been speaking to is a doctor who performs euthanasia

535
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: on otherwise physically healthy people with mental illness who no

536
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: longer want to be around. And he's a brilliant doctor,

537
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: and he's under a lot of investigation for what he's doing.

538
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 1: But I do not disagree at all. I know many

539
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: people do, but I think that ultimately this is the

540
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: same question about control over women's bodies. Is having control

541
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: over when you live and die should be something that

542
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 1: we each have over our own selves, just.

543
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 4: Like women should, I think.

544
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: And this doctor I was asking him if anything had

545
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 1: ever given him pause, and he said the only thing

546
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: that had was this man whose wife was about to

547
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 1: be euthanized, who said to the doctor as she was dying,

548
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: what if in the next world she's feeling the same things,

549
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: but she's left all of us. So my question that

550
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: I want answered is what happens next. Should we be

551
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: running towards that field, or should we terry a bit

552
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: the way.

553
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 2: Should we make another movie and do another ten thousand steps,

554
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 2: or should I im in the field and Russell Crowe

555
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 2: wafting his hand along the golden ears of corn or

556
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 2: wheat or whatever.

557
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:48,479
Speaker 3: The fuck it was?

558
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 2: I feel you let me tell you, it's probably the

559
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 2: number one question that people want to know. But that

560
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 2: was the most brilliant, dark, amazing answer.

561
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,959
Speaker 3: You brought into play. Like I didn't even know.

562
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 2: I knew that there were like pods in Switzerland, but

563
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 2: I guess I've only ever thought of that with people

564
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 2: who have like diagnoses of like Parkinson's or als or cancer.

565
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,479
Speaker 2: And I think it's heartbreaking for me to think that

566
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 2: people would be suffering so terribly with their mental health

567
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 2: they would want to end their life. There was a

568
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 2: lot in that, but ultimately I agree with you. I

569
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 2: would love to know we're gonna know this ends with

570
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 2: all of us dying, Like right, it has the same ending.

571
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 2: I wonder how it actually would affect our lives.

572
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 4: If we need, we need totally.

573
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 3: I probably eat a lot more.

574
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: It would probably just mean better to know. It's like,

575
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: you know, after the election, it's like, well.

576
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 3: Now we know, now we know what we're staring.

577
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: It's like getting a diagnosis. Now we know it's the

578
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: unknown of it. Knowledge is power and the unknown is

579
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: an unending loop of just and also that without having

580
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: the unending loop, maybe we'd be I don't know.

581
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 4: I guess the answer is.

582
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 3: I think it's all we're left with. We have to

583
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 3: cozy up to the unknown because we're most like we're

584
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 3: not going to find out. Yeah, I will tell you briefly.

585
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 2: I did a performance in a theater with hundreds and

586
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 2: hundreds and hundreds of people of this play called White Rabbit,

587
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 2: Red Rabbit. And it is a play by this amazing

588
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 2: playwright called Nasim Sulamanpour and he is an Iranian playwright

589
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,479
Speaker 2: who is not allowed to leave Iran, and he has

590
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 2: essentially sent.

591
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 3: His play out into the world.

592
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 2: And here's the kicker. You perform the play sight unseen.

593
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 2: There is an envelope on the chair on the stage

594
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 2: when you walk on and you undo the envelope and

595
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 2: you take out the play and you begin to read

596
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 2: it and it is happening in.

597
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 3: Real time and you're unknown. Wow it is.

598
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 2: It was the most extraordinary experience to have to step

599
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 2: out there into I already know what that's like to

600
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 2: step out onto a stage and the fear and the

601
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: nerves and everything that goes with it, but to not

602
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 2: know what is going to happen next. And it reminded

603
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 2: me of being a kid where every day when my

604
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 2: mum would like slam the door in the summer and

605
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 2: be like through.

606
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 3: The letterbox, come back when it's dark.

607
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 2: The possibility of anything and everything happened now was all

608
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 2: present at the same time. And the crazy thing was,

609
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 2: or the amazing thing was it drowned out the fear

610
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 2: of what will I do because it was happening so

611
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 2: much in the lowness of now, there wasn't any room

612
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: the theor actually was subordinate to the now. Yes, fucking cool.

613
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 2: Oh god, that's so cool. But anyway, I wonder if

614
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 2: our unknown as being more comfortable with the unknown, maybe

615
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 2: that is like something we can all look at and

616
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 2: think about and do in our lives.

617
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 4: One hundred percent.

618
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: And what you just said was really it was really

619
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: helpful because it also is something that I can relate to,

620
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: not the performative ass but the nowness of the way

621
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: that you just said.

622
00:31:54,600 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 4: That was so helpful to me, So like, good, Yeah.

623
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 3: That's good.

624
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 2: I only ever say the stuff that I need to

625
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 2: listen to or learn.

626
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: I think that's the most divinely helpful stuff is the

627
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: stuff we tell ourselves that we feel comfortable enough to

628
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: share with others. I think that's the path to healing.

629
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: And I really deeply appreciate you saying.

630
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 5: That, hey, wow, good right next one.

631
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 3: What would be your last meal?

632
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 4: Okay, that's easy ish.

633
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: I think sushi is my favorite thing, like a really

634
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: sensational oh ma case of just the most beautiful fish

635
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: and just like in a really like clean and cozy,

636
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: subterranean restaurant.

637
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I love Okay, there's a lot to

638
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 2: n Why do you want it to be subterranean?

639
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: I like the sort of like secret of dining spots

640
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: that aren't like the hipster dining spots. I used to

641
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: when I was in my twenties in the city, I

642
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: would conserve my entire week's paycheck just to have one

643
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: sushi lunch where all the Japanese businessmen went in the

644
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: forties and midtown during the day, and I would be

645
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: the only like twenty four year old girl like reading

646
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: like a copy of The New Yorker while like getting

647
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: search and but like checking the price because it's like, oh,

648
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: I don't have a corporate card, so I just this

649
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: is insane.

650
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 4: But the subterranean part, I don't know. I like when

651
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 4: things are under ground. I like sub.

652
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 3: I like like sub.

653
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 4: I like sub.

654
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 2: I like that sub is cozy. Yeah, as opposed to claustrophobic.

655
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 2: That's very interesting. I'm going to write that down.

656
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 3: Sub is cozy.

657
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 2: You might think about getting that needle point on a

658
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 2: pillow t shirt. I might even make that for you, Lisa,

659
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 2: sub is cozy?

660
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 3: So hard.

661
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 2: Also, just because you mentioned that you might be.

662
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: O c D.

663
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 2: Yes, I've always thought that sushi is the perfect food

664
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 2: for someone who is OCD because it is so just

665
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: painfully beautifully arranged and symmetrical and even and organized.

666
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 3: Is that part of why you love it? Do you think?

667
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 4: Yes?

668
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: But until you have said it, I would never have

669
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: made that connection. But absolutely, it's a stunning connection.

670
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: It's an organized, sub cozy, totally fish first.

671
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: Wow, I feel like you understand me so well. It's

672
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: just like, does everybody feel the way with you?

673
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I don't think so.

674
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 4: All.

675
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 2: There's a few people I'd like you to call. Actually,

676
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 2: on my behalf, I bet you not understanding fifty P

677
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 2: face because if you things I've learned while talking to her.

678
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 3: She is everything. Did you tell her what your favorite

679
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 3: food was? She would make it feel so much better?

680
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 4: Exactly.

681
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 3: I love that that's your last meal, all right?

682
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 2: We've arrived here at our last question, which feels really

683
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 2: strange and like too soon.

684
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 3: In your life.

685
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 2: Can you tell me about something that has grown out

686
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,240
Speaker 2: of a personal disaster.

687
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: I suppose what my husband and I say a lot

688
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: is that if my dad were still alive, he would

689
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: convinced me.

690
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 4: Not to marry my husband.

691
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: And so he says, at the very least, because your

692
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 1: dad died, you were able to get to me, because

693
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 1: he wouldn't have let you.

694
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: I mean, Michael, the first of all, your husband's so dark,

695
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:53,240
Speaker 2: that's so funny.

696
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 3: Is that true?

697
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,879
Speaker 1: I think it is, Like I think my mom would

698
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: have loved him and said that like he was the

699
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: better half, and my dad should have liked him but

700
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 1: would have been too suspicious of his differences, because like

701
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: my dad was severe OCD and this is severe ADHD, which,

702
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,359
Speaker 1: unless you are like reading a manual, you're just like,

703
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: why is.

704
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:21,280
Speaker 4: This person's just fucking asshole?

705
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: Like if you have an entirely different disease, you're just

706
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: like you're an asshole, and the person's like, I'm not.

707
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 4: I just have the same problems you do.

708
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: They're just over here, and it's like you know, so

709
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 1: I know because I'm unable to recognize his disorders in

710
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: favor of mine. That my father, who also had OCD

711
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 1: and was similar to me and controlling and all of that,

712
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 1: would have had similar issues with him.

713
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 3: God, that's so interesting. Wait, what's your daughter like? She's

714
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 3: a wild You didn't talk about her.

715
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 4: She's a wild beast.

716
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: We were doing this thing the other night where I

717
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: was just like, all I do is talk about feelings.

718
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 1: All I do is and I feel like I have

719
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: an avoidant child, like my avoidant husband, and I'm just like,

720
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: oh my god. So like the other day, we're in

721
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: bed and you know, we're like reading and she'll say

722
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 1: something like roundbreaking, like so and so said this to

723
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: me and it made me feel blah blah blah. And

724
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: then she'll just stop. And then she's like, wait, can

725
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: we read Babysitters Club? And I'm like, wait, you just

726
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: said something explosive we need to talk about. She's like, yeah,

727
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: I'm done.

728
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 4: I got it out. And I'm like, but you didn't

729
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 4: get it out.

730
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 1: You said something and it was like explosive, and now

731
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: we used to talk about it and she was like, Mom,

732
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: I'm done, I got it out.

733
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 4: We're done. We can close that up put it away,

734
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 4: and I was like, you can't. And then she's like,

735
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 4: tell me a story.

736
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: So I was like fine, and then I was like,

737
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: in a dark wood behind you know the stories kids love,

738
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: in a dark coffin, there's a dark locket. In the

739
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: dark locket, are your feelings boxes? Feelings are there? And

740
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: she started laughing hysterically.

741
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,439
Speaker 4: And I'm like, oh my god, you're laughing because that's

742
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 4: really what's going on.

743
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: Like I'm never going to be able to get in

744
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: there either, another box that I must spend the rest

745
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 1: of my life trying to crawl into.

746
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 3: I don't want to, Oh my god. But at least

747
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 3: sub is cozy.

748
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: So you're spending time underground looking through in the box

749
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 2: in the locket, in the box in the lock you

750
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 2: will enjoy.

751
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: I swear to god, I don't know that I've ever

752
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: felt more understood, like at all. And like I said,

753
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 1: I feel like when people come over and see our

754
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 1: dog and they're like so much, and it's like that

755
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 1: dog acts like that with everybody. I feel like a

756
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: little bit that way.

757
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 4: Now I'm like, oh my god, Mini is really get

758
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 4: to me.

759
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 3: Everybody.

760
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 2: It's because I love you, and I think I know

761
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 2: you because of reading your books, and.

762
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 3: Also you're just wonderful.

763
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 2: You're wonderful, like you're wonderful to talk to, and your

764
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 2: books change the way people feel, and they are comforting

765
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 2: and they are the best companion. I've had them on

766
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 2: many hard journeys. And it's really cool to be able

767
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 2: to sit and talk and you're so generous to talk

768
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 2: about painful things and things that we traditionally don't talk about.

769
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 2: You know what's cool is like maybe your daughter will

770
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 2: listen to this one day, and like you are just

771
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 2: demonstrating what it is to investigate.

772
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 3: It's good for all of us to do that. So

773
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 3: thank you so much. You're amazing.

774
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 4: I think you so much. Truly, You're welcome.

775
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 3: You're very welcome.

776
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 2: Mini Questions is hosted and written by Me, Mini Driver

777
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,760
Speaker 2: Executive produced by Me and Aaron Kaufman, with production support

778
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,240
Speaker 2: from Jennifer Bassett, Zoe Denkler, and Ali Perry.

779
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 3: The theme music is also by Me.

780
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 2: And additional music by Aaron Kaufman. Special thanks to Jim

781
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 2: Nikolay Addison, O'Day, Henry Driver, Lisa Castella, Anik Oppenheim, A,

782
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 2: Nick Muller, and a net Wolfe.

783
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,439
Speaker 3: A w kPr, Will

784
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 2: Pearson, Nikki Itoor, Morgan Lavoy and Mangesh had Tiggadore