1 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: This is Let's be Clear with Shannon Doherty. Hi everyone, 2 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: This is Let's be Clear with Shannon Doherty, Part two 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: of my interview with Hollywood combs. Hi Hall, so good. 4 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 2: We had to do it again. 5 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,319 Speaker 1: It's kind of like where we left off. We were, 6 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: you know, talking about Charmed and what transpired and what happened. 7 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: And you know, I don't know if the statement was 8 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: made in her book or if it was on like 9 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: her press tour. I don't really know because I didn't 10 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: at that point in time pay all that close attention 11 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: to it. And I know that people are really interested 12 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: in what actually happened. It's it's a question that you 13 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: and I get. I think when we do the conventions 14 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: and we go on these panels, people have asked us 15 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: and I sort of would say, oh, it's wait for 16 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: the podcast, wait for the podcast. So now it's here, 17 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: let's be clear. Let's be clear. You know, I just 18 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: want to make sure that everybody knows that there's zero 19 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: hate here. The past is definitely done and over with, 20 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: and it's not even like we really talk about this 21 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: at all. It's I think this is coming up because 22 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: it's a question that I get asked on an absolute 23 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: regular basis. At every convention that we do, every single 24 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: you know fan that I run into on the streets 25 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 1: always asked me why did you quit? Why did you quit? 26 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: Why did you quit? And the narrative that I quit 27 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: was assigned to me by other people, wasn't assigned to me. 28 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: I didn't assign it to myself. And I think I'm 29 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: just at that point in my life where I don't 30 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: want to keep lying about something, and I don't want 31 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: to keep lying about something that meant the absolute world 32 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: to me, something that I went to I loved doing. 33 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: I loved going to that job, I loved the people 34 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: that I worked with. And I had a father who 35 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: was extremely sick and had a lot of medical needs, 36 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: and this show really helped me to provide for an 37 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: entire family. So when my livelihood got taken away, it 38 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: was extremely hard. I still went with the narrative and 39 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: the story that everybody wanted me to go with. But 40 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: now at my age and dealing with stage four cancer, 41 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: I just don't feel like I have to keep telling 42 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: a lie. I feel like it's okay to be honest. 43 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: So one of the biggest sort of myths out there 44 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: was that I quit. 45 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 2: Well, that story has a backstory and then another story. 46 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it has a lot of backstories, which we'll go into, 47 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: but just to you know, sort of address that. I 48 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: don't think that there's anybody in their right mind that 49 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: would quit a hit show that's paying them a good 50 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: amount of money that they actually really enjoy working on, 51 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: which was my deal. Like I enjoyed it. 52 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 2: Yeah you did. You were very dedicated. You like to 53 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 2: show up for stunt rehearsals a day early and do 54 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 2: your wardrobe a week early. Was really annoying. 55 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,799 Speaker 1: Well, I mean Eilish was like so good prepared. 56 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 2: You were overly prepared. 57 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: I was. I liked to be prepared. But sort of 58 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: during that time period after the first season, when everybody 59 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: sort of got acclimated, I think things obviously started to 60 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: change and the show got a lot more attention and 61 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: us girls got individual attention, and that may have caused some. 62 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 2: Yeah I heard that. I mean we've talked about that, 63 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 2: but I never knew that because I wasn't the one 64 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 2: doing the maximum covers. I think I did one terrible 65 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 2: cover and they gave me very big boobs and I 66 00:03:58,560 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: was like, who. 67 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: Is she they did? I remember that cover? 68 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: It was Stuff? 69 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: Was it? Stuff Magazine? 70 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 2: They made me like six feet tall and gave me 71 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 2: really big boobs, and I was like, Okay, that wasn't 72 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 2: the picture I approved. By the way, I had final 73 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: approval on the photo on the cover, and it was 74 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 2: I mean, it was a version of the photo I approved. 75 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:27,119 Speaker 2: But that was the only like naked naked maxim type 76 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 2: photo shoot I did. And I remember saying to my 77 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 2: publicist at the time. I was like, shouldn't I take 78 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 2: like a couple of weeks. Well, I was in my 79 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 2: twenties maybe three, to like work out and look good 80 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: for this, And he was like, honey, no, they airbrushed gizell. 81 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 2: They don't even care what you look like. And I 82 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: was like, ouch. 83 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 1: By the way, Stuff magazine the name, it sounds like 84 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: a porno magazine. 85 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, well look like it. But actually the cover shot 86 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 2: was the one I was most comfortable with because I 87 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 2: just wore my g I wasn't wearing like red lingerie 88 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 2: and I was topless, but my hair was covering my boob. 89 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 2: So that was the one. I was like, cool, I 90 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 2: can swing this. 91 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: I remember this dis cover. It's very sexy. 92 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought so. I mean, if I was six 93 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 2: foot in head double d's. Yeah, don't look it up. 94 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 2: Oh my god, woman, let some things die. Okay, so 95 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 2: they weren't double d's. They were like seas but still. 96 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: Hey, you never know, I could go short. Those aren't 97 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: those are big? 98 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, it's too big for my flag foot too. 99 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: Look at your abs. 100 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I got out and they got longer. That's why 101 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 2: I mean, like I got long, I got tall. 102 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, they definitely stretched the torso. 103 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 2: They did because I have no torso. 104 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you look good though I was. 105 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 2: You know, the the real picture was fine too. 106 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: Though, Yeah, I think I did. Like FHM and Lingerie 107 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: and then Maxim it. 108 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 2: Was you guys were on the circuit. 109 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: We were, but it was more of like all the 110 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: other you know, yes, those magazines where they served a 111 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: purpose back then, but it was like the people magazines 112 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: or the individual TV guide covers or the this or 113 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: the that or the you know. In my case, I 114 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: guess like my my contract was that I got you know, 115 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: I was the highest paid because I was the one 116 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: that the network you know hired and and and uh 117 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: sort of green light the show based on. So it 118 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: was something my attorney negotiated in there and that caused 119 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: you know, riffed once once Alyssa found out that was definitelyentually. 120 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and Smelling did some backdoor deals. I don't know 121 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: why it was privy to all the backdoor deals, but 122 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 2: people tell me everything. I guess you do. 123 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: Have a plethora of knowledge that like didn't even really 124 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: pertain to you. It was kind of wild. 125 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I keep every text an email, so truth 126 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 2: be told. Let's be clear. 127 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I do too. 128 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 2: Oh, I know this, I do know about you. 129 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, some people don't love that about me, but m h, 130 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: that's all right. I just like keeping all that stuff 131 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: because I think it's really good like reference. If somebody 132 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: is saying something that transpired that didn't transpire, then I 133 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: can go back in the email and be like, well, 134 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: actually here's the email. 135 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. 136 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's like the attorney side of me 137 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: coming out. M h. Right. So there were like all 138 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: sorts of little jealousies. You went to the hospital, and 139 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: that was a little bit of an issue, you know. 140 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,679 Speaker 2: I asked, uh, it was funny. I don't know why 141 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 2: they put me in a room with Jonathan Levin of 142 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 2: all people. It wasn't Jim, wasn't Aarin. Well, Aaron had 143 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 2: kind of was having own health problems at that point, 144 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: but it wasn't Jim, and it wasn't Duke, who were 145 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 2: by my bedside when I woke up from surgery. So 146 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 2: it was interesting that when I had a problem after 147 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 2: this all transpired and I wanted to discuss leaving the 148 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 2: show and all my reasons why they put me in 149 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 2: a room with Jonathan Levin, which I don't know that 150 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 2: I had seen since we went to network, and you 151 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: had told me about your background with him, which is 152 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 2: varied and interesting, and he obviously has a very fond spot, 153 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 2: shall we say, for you, And I don't know why 154 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 2: they chose him to do this meeting, but I can 155 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 2: tell you that during the meeting where I said this 156 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 2: is not the show I signed on to do, I 157 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 2: hear that you're looking for other people. And it's not 158 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 2: about the list of names. It's about this was not 159 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 2: a show that I wanted to do without Shannon. She 160 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 2: didn't want to do it without me. Therefore I don't 161 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 2: want to do it without her, and that should be 162 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 2: fairly clear. And he hadars in his eyes already because 163 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 2: he could see I was getting upset. As you can 164 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 2: hear me getting upset, And I said, why would you 165 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 2: hire her again just to fire her? And he said, 166 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 2: we didn't mean to, And he said, but we've been 167 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 2: backed into this corner. He said, you know, we're basically 168 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 2: in a position where it's one or the other. We 169 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 2: were told that it's her me and Alyssa has threatened 170 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 2: to sue us for a hostile workplace environment, which because 171 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 2: she went to the therapist or the mediator or the 172 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 2: corporate mediator, whatever the heck his title is, she built 173 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 2: a case for herself where she was documenting every time 174 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 2: she felt uncomfortable on set and for whatever reason, whereas 175 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 2: you and I refused to speak to him. So that's 176 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 2: where the deck was stacked. 177 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: I always think that, like when somebody does that, you 178 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: you know, I would as a producer call them on it. 179 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: And I know that that's a huge risk and it 180 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: was definitely one that they didn't want to take. 181 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 2: And what's funny is that by today's standard, it wouldn't 182 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 2: even qualify because there were no onset, you know, brawls. 183 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 2: There was no either even like harsh words exchanged. It 184 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 2: was all behind the scenes, it was all in the trailer. 185 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 2: It was nothing that anybody or any of our guest 186 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 2: stars ever noticed or noted. And you know, there's not 187 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: a director that would not work with you. Again, there's 188 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 2: not any one of our crew members that did not 189 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: have a great time working with you. So by today's standards, 190 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 2: it wouldn't fucking fly, right, And I don't think being 191 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,719 Speaker 2: laid as a teenager on a set called nine O 192 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 2: two one zero would fly for being fired either. Like 193 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 2: it's just it's just doesn't make any sense anymore. There 194 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 2: are people that actually behave badly and get away with it, 195 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 2: and there are men that you know, abuse people, throw things, 196 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 2: screaming fits and get away with it. Like I don't 197 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 2: think people understand that that never happen here unless you 198 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 2: were there. No one understands that. 199 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I you know, listen, I lived a 200 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: you know, a year after that, sort of replaying everything 201 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 1: in my brain and really like trying to find those 202 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:24,719 Speaker 1: moments where we and I couldn't find them, like there 203 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: was no like we never had it out, like we 204 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: never not privately or public public. Right, I don't ever 205 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: remember being mean to her on set. I actually, like 206 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: I remember an episode that I directed where you know, 207 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: she did something on the Christmas break and they asked 208 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 1: me to work around some things with her, and I 209 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: had no problem with it, Like I couldn't have been 210 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: more kind and understanding, And the only thing was that 211 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: it was. There were like a couple of couple of 212 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: things that sort of stood out to me. One was, 213 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: you know, her mom had that like safe searching thing 214 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: or whatever, and she like showed up one day and said, oh, well, 215 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: you know, I designed your website and it's unsafe searching now, 216 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: and I was like, can you please take it down? 217 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: Like my father doesn't feel well, he's not doing well, 218 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: and I sort of want to give this to him 219 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: as a project so he has something to occupy his 220 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 1: time with. And I mean, I have no idea if 221 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: that was a factor or not, but it happened. They 222 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,959 Speaker 1: you know, did yours as well, but you allowed it, 223 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: and because why wouldn't you didn't have a dad that 224 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: needed something to do. 225 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,719 Speaker 2: He's floating around out there, right. 226 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:52,319 Speaker 1: And then the whole you know, paid discrepancy, even though 227 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: it was so incredibly minor not even worth a conversation really, 228 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: But once that all came out and her and I 229 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: had the conversation, and my attorneys went to Spelling and said, 230 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: this is not okay. You can't be doing you know, 231 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: side deals to someone. 232 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 2: It was it was me that told you that there 233 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 2: was another deal, So why wasn't I fired? 234 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: Right? 235 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think you know previously, you know, you 236 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 2: had discussed with them that the tension was getting high 237 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,719 Speaker 2: and that you didn't want to replay of what had 238 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 2: happened before, So you were preemptively trying to work it out. 239 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 2: And I also wonder in the back of their minds 240 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 2: if they didn't choose you because they knew they had 241 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 2: done it before and nine O two one zero went on. 242 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 2: I almost wonder if they were okay with the publicity, 243 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 2: if they were okay with we've done this before, it 244 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 2: worked out, fine, we can do it again. 245 00:13:53,120 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 1: I think that's a valid, valid point. I think back 246 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: then the male mentality was to pit the women against 247 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: each other anyway in order to keep them controlled. 248 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. No, they didn't want us working together. They wanted 249 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 2: to keep us segregated and separated and not negotiating together 250 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 2: because then you have a friends situation where everybody's getting 251 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 2: paid the same amount, and that's not what they wanted 252 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 2: to do, you know, like I said before, I ended 253 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 2: up doing the most hours for the least pay because 254 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 2: I just didn't ask for raises. I didn't want more 255 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 2: to be taken out of the budget. I didn't want 256 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 2: to have no money for guest stars like I was producing. Then. 257 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 2: I knew that we had to get rid of Brian 258 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 2: for some episodes to afford Nick Lache. But at the 259 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 2: time when I had a three month old baby and 260 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 2: I'm doing more hours than anyone and people are being 261 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 2: let out for baseball games, you know, I sat in 262 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 2: my trailer and I was like, and I said to Jim, 263 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 2: and I said to Duke. I was like, I don't 264 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 2: need to do this. I don't want to do this. 265 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 2: This is a second time. I don't want to do this, 266 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 2: and I just I don't know how you expect me 267 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 2: to pick up all the pieces and go home to 268 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 2: a three month old baby and not be ragged like. 269 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 2: It just wasn't fair. It just wasn't fair. 270 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, because when I was gone, Once I was gone, 271 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: it really did fall completely on your shoulders, because at 272 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: least while I was there, it was on my shoulders. 273 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: And I would share it with you because we had 274 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: the same mindset about the show. But then once I 275 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: got fired, it was all on you. 276 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and it took you know, the writers 277 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 2: were good about letting me work through the process of 278 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 2: going through the change and grieving your loss and then 279 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: being awkward with Rose coming in. Yes, Prue and Page, 280 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 2: but I'm using their real life names because that's what 281 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 2: I had to deal with. And you know, I had 282 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 2: said to Jonathan, it's not the show that I want 283 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 2: to do. It's not the show I signed up for. 284 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 2: And you know, the conversation got to the point where 285 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 2: he said not just threatened to sue me, but said 286 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 2: he would sue me and dock my wages if I 287 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 2: worked anywhere. 288 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: Else, right, I remember, including being a backer at a 289 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: grocery store. They would still dock your wages. 290 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I said, well that's because I started laughing, like 291 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 2: through my tears. I started laughing, and I was like, 292 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 2: what does that even mean. He said, we will sue 293 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 2: you for what we think we will have lost on 294 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 2: the show because of your departure, and we will dock 295 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 2: your wages to regain those numbers. And I said, well, 296 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 2: what if I go to like Arizona and I bag groceries. 297 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 2: He goes, we will dock your wages. It really was like, suddenly, 298 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 2: I'm married to the mob. They forced me to go 299 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 2: back to a show that I wanted nothing to do with, 300 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 2: and it was very emotional for me, and it was 301 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 2: very emotional for both of us. And you couldn't understand 302 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,360 Speaker 2: how I couldn't do anything, and frankly, neither did I, 303 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 2: because my voice meant nothing. And that's what was so 304 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 2: funny to me. I was like, you're telling me I'm 305 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 2: so valuable that you can't do the show without me, 306 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 2: but yet my voice and my feelings and my thoughts 307 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 2: mean nothing. 308 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 1: Well, imagine could they couldn't lose two sisters? Like it's 309 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: fine to, you know, go into a four season replacing 310 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 1: one sister and all of a sudden she's dead and 311 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,479 Speaker 1: you have her direct her own death without telling her 312 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: what she's doing. But to lose two, for sure, I 313 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: think at that point the audience would have turned because 314 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 1: the truth would have come out at that point, and 315 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: eventually those people would have turned it off, which is 316 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: why it's I think, correct me if I'm wrong. But 317 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: you and I have spoken about this. It's hard to 318 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: have even this conversation publicly because we are so respectful 319 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: of the audience and the fans and how much they 320 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: love the show, and they bond with the show when 321 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: they think of us all as sisters, so as we are. 322 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:07,959 Speaker 1: You don't want to break that. 323 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 2: You don't want to burst anybody's bubble. But the fact 324 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 2: of the matter is, this is what I say. It 325 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 2: is like a real life family. We did have common goals, 326 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 2: and we tried to keep it together, and we did 327 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 2: get along famously for a long time, and then you 328 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,439 Speaker 2: just have life differences where sisters, as far as I know, 329 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 2: from having no siblings myself, families, you know, stop talking 330 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 2: to each other, or people come back together and reunite 331 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 2: or they don't, you know, And it's just it's a painful. 332 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 2: It's a painful bond and it was a painful time. 333 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 2: And for it to be put to me the way 334 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 2: it was was it felt like blackmail. And then try 335 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 2: acting through that and making people want to see it. 336 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: While you succeeded, eh, I don't know, people still wanted 337 00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: to see it. I think people inherently instinctually understand that 338 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: it was like once I was gone, it was you 339 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 1: that was the glue between the new Threesome and I 340 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 1: think it's why when people really think of Charmed, it 341 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: becomes yes, prou will always be there, but there's a 342 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 1: big piper element because I think it's obvious like you were, 343 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: you know, hurt, you were all of those things. I 344 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: think that shows and how you dealt with it after. 345 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 1: But during the rest of those years, you were the glue. 346 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. And it was it was tough because 347 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 2: you know, none of this was Rose's fault, and she 348 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 2: was coming into this situation quite awkwardly. Even though she 349 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,719 Speaker 2: was a tough guy, she wasn't. This was awkward for 350 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 2: her and I had I had empathy for her for that, 351 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 2: and I could see how difficult this was for her 352 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,719 Speaker 2: to just jump into not just being a show that 353 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 2: was already running, but she had never done TV before, 354 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 2: so there was a huge learning curve, you know. So 355 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 2: I was sensitive to that fact. And really my only consolation, 356 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,439 Speaker 2: and it wasn't a very big one, was that I 357 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 2: said to Jonathan, you guys will not have the privilege 358 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 2: of saying that you fired her again. And I said, 359 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 2: the only thing that I'm going to ask of you 360 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 2: is that she gets to put out whatever statement she 361 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 2: wants to. And I said, if anybody talks about it, 362 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 2: then I'm I'm going to be a very big problem. 363 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: I mean, what's really funny about that is that I 364 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: had a pair play deal, and when all of this 365 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: went down, I was like, Okay, they can't burn me 366 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: a second time, right, That's not fair. It's not fair 367 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: to me. So I really wanted to sue them for 368 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: my payer play deal, which would mean that for as 369 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: long as you guys went on, I would continue being 370 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: paid and my contract would be honored as far as 371 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 1: a paycheck goes and profit participation and everything that was 372 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: in my contract and my representatives and remember them looking 373 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: at me at the time and said, no, no, no, 374 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: your career won't survive another firing. So we're just going 375 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: to say that you chose to leave. And I started 376 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: I remember I started laughing, going, who is going to 377 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: believe that I'm crazy enough to leave a hit. 378 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 2: Show or to direct an episode that you died in 379 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 2: and not such a great fashion. We would have made 380 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 2: it far more spectacular than that, for sure. 381 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: It wouldn't have been just a bookcase falling on you 382 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 1: and me being thrown through the air and through a 383 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 1: door wall or whatever. 384 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 2: I had both went through the wall and looked like 385 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 2: we were taking a nap. 386 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: I would have blown up, you know, I would have 387 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: had far more spectacular. Somebody take over your body and 388 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,120 Speaker 1: you blow me up, and let's see how you deal 389 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 1: with killing her sister for the next season. I would 390 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: have done something, you know, a lot more. But I'm 391 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: going to say I was still young. I was twenty seven, eight, 392 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: twenty nine, somewhere in that range, and really thought that 393 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: I should listen to everybody else about my career. And 394 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: it's one of It's not like a huge regret because 395 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it's just a TV 396 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 1: show and it's just one aspect of my life when 397 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: my life is about so many other things. But I 398 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: wish that I had been older and wiser, because I 399 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 1: definitely would have sued, and I would have been honest 400 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 1: about the situation, because the rumors followed me regardless, right, 401 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: and so the rumors were there, but now I wasn't 402 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: getting paid and I was made out to. It makes 403 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 1: you look crazy when you want to you when you 404 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: leave a hit show only after three seasons. I think 405 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: that the people in the industry and the business knew 406 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: what happened because word. 407 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 2: Spread not necessarily though, Yeah. 408 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: I mean we ran into it a couple of times. 409 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: It was it was, It was awkward, and I think 410 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 1: I said much earlier that you know, there are things 411 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 1: that you can forgive and forget, and I was pretty 412 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: harsh saying that I would never forgive or forget. And 413 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: I was contemplating that again today and yesterday, and I thought, 414 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: is there forgiveness? I think there's acceptance, which as you 415 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: get older, you accept that a situation happened. But acceptance 416 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: and moving on with your life does not equate to forgiveness. 417 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: You just learn a lesson and look at somebody differently 418 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: and move on. 419 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 2: I think we were all just cogs in that wheel. 420 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 2: I think they knew how to make money and they 421 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 2: did it well. 422 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 1: You know, I was fine being and I know that 423 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: this doesn't sound very good for me, but I was 424 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: fine being a cog in that wal, to be honest, 425 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: because it was a great show and it was something 426 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: that I enjoyed. The more it progressed and the more 427 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 1: I got to do my stunts and I had that 428 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: amazing stunt team, it was. It was fun. I looked 429 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 1: forward to going to work and once they started letting 430 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: me direct. I was in my element. I was assuming 431 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: that for season I would direct something like five episodes 432 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: of four episodes. 433 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:24,679 Speaker 2: It was. 434 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,239 Speaker 1: It gave me a lot of opportunities that I was 435 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: incredibly grateful for. But then when that was sort of 436 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: snatched away without even a fair trial, that's what's upsetting. 437 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 2: Without a warning though, either. I mean, I remember when 438 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 2: you called me and we were on a hiatus and 439 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 2: you were working and we hadn't really talked in a minute, 440 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 2: and you said that they had just fired you. I said, 441 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 2: that's impossible, it's impossible. I was like, you just directed 442 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 2: the last episode. That's impossible. Like I really was like, 443 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 2: you're mistaken, You're mistaken, because it was just so preposterous. 444 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 2: It was so ridiculous that it was like shocking, and 445 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 2: you said you need to do something, and I was like, 446 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,439 Speaker 2: it's just not even happening, and it's so dumb, so dumb. 447 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 1: I will say that I think Rose stepped in nicely, 448 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 1: and that, as you said, was very hard. Yeah. I 449 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: know that there was some press things trying to pit 450 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: us against each other, and well that's what they did 451 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: in that I kept on referring to a photo of 452 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: the two of us at an Entertainment Weekly party in 453 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: New York City where we hung out, and we're both 454 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: smiling and happy with each other because there was no reason. 455 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: It wasn't Rose's fault. There was no reason for me 456 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: to have an issue with her, and she did a 457 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 1: great job, and she brought something quirky and different to 458 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: the show. But it was definitely you that kept that 459 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: train moving forward and being the person that cared oh 460 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: so deeply besides me for it and making sure that 461 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: the fans got what they needed out of that show. 462 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: You were very dedicated to that. 463 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,479 Speaker 2: Cause yeah, I was. I still am, you know, And 464 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 2: that's why going to cons like is strangely, you know, 465 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 2: it's astonishing to me that it meant, you know, half 466 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 2: as much to other people as it did to me, 467 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 2: because I really thought I was going crazy for a 468 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 2: little bit where I was like, I just I just 469 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 2: so valiantly wanted to make it good and wanted to 470 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 2: make it real and for whatever reasons I can't really 471 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 2: even explain now, So you know, part of part of 472 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 2: it is work ethic, part of it is not wanting 473 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 2: to fail, you know, but it was it was a 474 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:53,439 Speaker 2: big deal to me. 475 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: Wow, anything that you want to add, I. 476 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 2: Don't know, I got a little heated, calmed down a 477 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 2: little bit. It was a terribly uncomfortable situation for me, 478 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 2: and obviously you saying I'm not going to do the 479 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 2: show without her in the beginning to network and me 480 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 2: saying it clearly didn't have the same effect, you know, 481 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 2: and so it was terribly awkward for me. You know, 482 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 2: Brian and she were dating at the time when this 483 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 2: all went down, which to me, us being completely oblivious 484 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 2: to me was the worst part, where it was like 485 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 2: all sort of part of this plan that was happening 486 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 2: and unfolding through over months. It was, you know, months 487 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 2: of that year, and you were dating Julian, so you 488 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 2: guys were off in that world, and then Brian was 489 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 2: off with Alyssa. He just recently. It was it was 490 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 2: about a year ago in France. We were on stage 491 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 2: at a panel that was filled with many, many people 492 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 2: and he just kind of paused, like he looked at 493 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 2: me like he forgot something. And I looked at him, like, what, 494 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,199 Speaker 2: what's the problem. Why are you looking at me like that? 495 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 2: And he just looked at me while someone was asking 496 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 2: a question and just went, I'm so sorry, and I 497 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,439 Speaker 2: was like sorry for what. I was like, are you 498 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 2: going somewhere? What's happening. He just shook his head and goes, 499 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. Because we had talked about it a 500 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 2: little on stage without talking about it, because still no 501 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 2: one was allowed to talk about it, and we got 502 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 2: off stage and he just looked at me and said, 503 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. That must have been a terrible time 504 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 2: for you. That's all I have to say. I mean, 505 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 2: it took him like twenty four years, but better late 506 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 2: than never, better late than never. 507 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 1: I want to go back to something that you said 508 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: right before that, and you said, when I said the network, 509 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: you know it's she's doing it or you don't get me, 510 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: And you said that you know obviously when you tried that, 511 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: it didn't mean as much. And I want to say 512 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: that I disagree because I think had it been any 513 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: normal situation that we were in with them, you saying 514 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: that would have been enough. They would have chosen the 515 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: right path. And yes, do that now in this day 516 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: and age, it's not going to fly in any way, 517 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: shape or form. But your voice I think was appreciated, 518 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: and I think they I think they knew that they 519 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: couldn't lose you, but they were over a legal barrel, 520 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: and I don't want you to ever sell yourself short 521 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: in that scenario. I know that you fought for me, 522 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: and I know the tactics that they took with you, 523 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: but you know you did the right thing. You stood 524 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: up and you fought for what you believed in for 525 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: your friend, for the show. But that legal barrel that 526 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: was created was just far too much for them, and 527 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: you have to accept that also and understand that again. 528 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: You know, I just want everybody listening to to respect 529 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: the fact that it's hard for the two of us 530 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: to sit here and talk about this show in anything 531 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: but a positive light, because we know how much it 532 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: meant to the audience and to our fans, and to 533 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: the people that we hear from all the time that 534 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: talk about how it brought them closer to their families 535 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: or it helped them get through dark times when they 536 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: were younger, and that is something that the two of 537 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: us take very seriously. We love the fans, we love 538 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,479 Speaker 1: the show. We're super respectful. So none of this is 539 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: to try to to try to tear any of that down. 540 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: And as I said before, there's no hate left behind. 541 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: We've all moved on, and we definitely wish everyone, you know, peace, 542 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: love and healing and all of that. I know I 543 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: have much bigger things in my life to worry and 544 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: concentrate on. However, you can't. One can't keep telling the 545 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: same story over and over and over again when it's 546 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: not the truth. And this podcast is in fact called 547 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: Let's be clear, So all right now, holla and I 548 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: are going to talk about something else. Okay, I have 549 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 1: a funny question. I mean, it's not funny, but it's 550 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: one that we get asked a lot in the panels 551 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: at the conventions, which is, would any of us ever 552 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: consider doing a reboot? And how would we even manage 553 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: to do it? Disclaimer being that we don't own the show, 554 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: so it's very hard for us. 555 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 2: To to convince CBS to pull their heads out of 556 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,239 Speaker 2: their asses and let us do it, and let us 557 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 2: do it the right way, let us do it right. 558 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: But how would that? Would you be interested in that? 559 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 1: And what would that look like to you? 560 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 2: Gosh? You know, it's a hard question to answer because 561 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 2: you know, I get asked about it weekly. Like I'm 562 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 2: not exaggerating, I hate the R word. I hate, you know, 563 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 2: the theory that we're going to reboot something to make 564 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 2: it better than it was. 565 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: So then let's not say a reboot. What if we 566 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: do a continuation, but we've now fast forwarded so many years. 567 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 2: Just you know, I have I have no problem doing it. 568 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 2: I just hope for better special effects. I hope for 569 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 2: you know, people to understand that this, this show and 570 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 2: this job meant so much to so many people around 571 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,239 Speaker 2: the world. And this is why I you know, I 572 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 2: sometimes downplay it and people get angry at me, but 573 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 2: it's like it's hard to talk about how important it 574 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:28,959 Speaker 2: was when you were part of it. But I just 575 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 2: think there's three generations now that have watched the show. 576 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 2: There are people that watch it every day and sometimes 577 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 2: twice a day, and you know, yeah, I would do it. 578 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 2: I would just hope that people would come to it 579 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 2: with an understanding that some things are bigger than you 580 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 2: and some things are more important than you know, personal feelings, 581 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 2: you know. In that being said, there's also split screen 582 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 2: and green screen, and people don't have to work with 583 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 2: each other. They don't want to. We can just make 584 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 2: it look like you do. But yeah, you know, I 585 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 2: just I think from the very beginning I've been trying 586 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 2: to say, this thing is bigger than all of us. 587 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 2: It's definitely bigger than me, and it still means a 588 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 2: lot to a lot of people. And I'm glad it 589 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 2: does because that means that, you know, everything that we 590 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 2: all went through actually still means something. 591 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: Agreed. Yeh, agreed. I was trying to get a more 592 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 1: fun answer out of you. 593 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,399 Speaker 2: I know, okay, but it's too late. I'm already in 594 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 2: the dark and gloomy, gritty. 595 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: I was trying to think, like, what would have happened 596 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 1: to your kids by now, because what did happen to 597 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: your kids? One? Like day and one is alive? Like 598 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: what's what's Chris is dead? Chris is his day? 599 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 2: He had a terrible accident off of the Golden gate Bridge. No, 600 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 2: I'm just kidding. We can't kill Drew, even though wind 601 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 2: to kill Drew every day. 602 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: Every day and other I haven't read that you had. 603 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 2: No, yeah, Wyatt, he's the perfect child and supposedly in 604 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 2: the continuing I think it's the comic books. Yes, we 605 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 2: have comic books, in case anybody didn't now, and we 606 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 2: had novels like Connie wrote books after the show ended, 607 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 2: along with a few other writers. I had I finally 608 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 2: had the third kid, because everybody said she had a girl. 609 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 2: I think they both somebody has twins. I mean, there's 610 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 2: all sorts of another generation, which is why people were 611 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 2: always like, why didn't they just do the next generation? 612 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 2: And I was like, you'll have to ask the CEW 613 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 2: Paramount and CBS that question. 614 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,799 Speaker 1: I always say that Prue is now like, you're the 615 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: most powerful elder. You're an elder that's in the universe, 616 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 1: but come and kick physical ass all the time. 617 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 2: That's the thing is, nobody really dies, so you technically 618 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 2: can do whatever you want technically. 619 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: Right, yep, which I guess. I mean, I have no 620 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:17,839 Speaker 1: when they when they asked me if I would come 621 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: for the finale, you said no. I said no, And 622 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 1: I didn't even ask, like how they would bring me 623 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,399 Speaker 1: back because it's it's a fantasy world, so obviously there's 624 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: tons of different ways to do it, and they would 625 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: have been open to my suggestions. But yeah, I think 626 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:37,840 Speaker 1: I didn't want to do the finale because at that 627 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 1: point it had been however many seasons, and yeah, I was, 628 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: you know, very separated. 629 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 2: You were trying to distance yourself from it and move on. Yeah, 630 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 2: which is understandable. 631 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,400 Speaker 1: But I'm now an old lady and I'm like, that's okay. 632 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: I could still do some stunts. I'm not doing any 633 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: Come on, we can run around and heels still, and 634 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: I want a rocking chair and I want a car 635 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: hand thing. I can do that from a chair. And 636 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: she's got some grandkids now probably wait. 637 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 2: They can go run around and heels. Drew wears heels 638 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,240 Speaker 2: just fine. 639 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 1: And your daughter's probably a witch. She is. Yeah, I've 640 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: never read these novels that Connie wrote. I'm gonna have 641 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 1: to try to track them down. Have you read them? 642 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 2: And the comic books and comic books I always seem 643 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 2: to be doing laundry, so I'm not into those either. No, 644 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 2: oh thank you. 645 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: No, that's not good. 646 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 2: So we kind of bonded over sea, Shepherd, although you 647 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 2: were very militant about it, much more than I was. 648 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 2: You're like, we're going to this demonstration today. I was like, 649 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 2: it's Valentine's Day. You were like, yeah, let's go. So yeah, 650 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,399 Speaker 2: I mean we had that in common, and we had 651 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 2: that sort of drive to be an activist in common. 652 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:07,760 Speaker 2: And I think, especially with what has happened to see Shepherd, 653 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 2: there's clearly more work to be done. I think it's 654 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 2: about time for either one of us or both of 655 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 2: us to have our own foundation because right now, especially 656 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 2: with like what's happened to See Shepherd, it's hard to 657 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 2: know who to trust, and it's hard to know where trust, 658 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 2: where your money is going, and things like that. So 659 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:32,800 Speaker 2: I'm producing a documentary about the Harbor Seals up here. 660 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,760 Speaker 2: I just pledge my own money. 661 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: There's obviously a lot of really good foundations, but there 662 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 1: is I'm always amazed at how much money is spent 663 00:38:55,120 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: on administration salaries as opposed to as opposed to the 664 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: bulk of the money going towards the animals. So also, 665 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 1: you know, for me, it was very hard with Sea 666 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:15,840 Speaker 1: Shepherd because of the thing with Taiji and paid my 667 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,240 Speaker 1: way there and went and gotten a lot of trouble 668 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: with Japan that didn't really want me to come back 669 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: for a while, and being there at the cove, and 670 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 1: that was extremely hard. Just like watching all of the 671 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,839 Speaker 1: their campaign for the baby seals in Canada that are 672 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 1: club to death and then saying, Okay, why aren't you 673 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 1: still there? Well, it's going to die out. We've done 674 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: a great job and we've brought it down to a 675 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 1: certain level, which is what a lot of these foundations 676 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:53,279 Speaker 1: do is they think, like, all right, so instead of 677 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: ten thousand seals, is now only one thousand seals. So 678 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: eventually that's going to be zero seals. But what happens 679 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 1: is once you disappear and you don't have a presence 680 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: there anymore, and you're not documenting it anymore, the thousand 681 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: seals turns into three thousand seals, which then turns into 682 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 1: five thousand seals, and then you have the problem again. 683 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:20,719 Speaker 1: And I'm a firm believer in sticking with a campaign 684 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: until you get the result that you want. 685 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 2: Right I think you know, with them, they had limited 686 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:31,319 Speaker 2: resources even though they had the most of many and 687 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 2: they're you know, the focus would sway. But now with 688 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,880 Speaker 2: Sea Shepherds no longer really Sea shepherd there's nobody in Taiji. 689 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 2: There's only Dolphin Project in Taiji. That's crap, you know. 690 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,840 Speaker 1: And I will say Dolphin Project how amazing because they 691 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,880 Speaker 1: have stuck with it yea and poured a lot of 692 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: money into it. 693 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 2: Very consistent with Lolita and very consistent with Taiji and 694 00:40:55,239 --> 00:41:01,320 Speaker 2: captives and rehabilitation. So they still get my vote. 695 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, they get my vote too. They've definitely proven to 696 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 1: be stewards of those dolphins and Taiji and the pilot 697 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:20,520 Speaker 1: whales and the melon heads and all of that. They've 698 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 1: done a really beautiful job being stewards. I don't know 699 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: how we don't eradicate that situation, especially considering that it's 700 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:34,759 Speaker 1: been proven that that meat is filled with mercury and 701 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:36,960 Speaker 1: incredibly bad for you. And I was just talking to 702 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,440 Speaker 1: a woman from Japan the other day, beautiful lady. She 703 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 1: did my makeup for People magazine and Hanoka, and we 704 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: were talking about it, and she was saying that nobody 705 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:56,279 Speaker 1: really eats it anymore, that it's a very there's one area, 706 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,680 Speaker 1: one area, and a certain generation that really eats it. 707 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 1: And say, well, of course that's because they are going 708 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,319 Speaker 1: to continue claiming that they eat it because they can 709 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 1: hide under the cultural banner as opposed to what it's 710 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: truly about, which is financial. It's all about capturing those 711 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,279 Speaker 1: dolphins that they then get to go sell for a 712 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:24,319 Speaker 1: million dollars, two million dollars. That poor albino dolphin is 713 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: still in that small and I was there at that 714 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:31,200 Speaker 1: Taiji Whale museum, and that is nothing no place for 715 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 1: anything to be living in, but they have to because 716 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 1: they're making so much money. These fishermen. Fishermen don't know 717 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: any other way, They don't want to know any other way. 718 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:49,600 Speaker 1: They get a ton of money, and but they do. 719 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,680 Speaker 1: They can't say, well, we're just greedy. We're just greedy, 720 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,000 Speaker 1: So we're going to keep killing dolphins, and in the 721 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: most horrific way possible, because those still rods that they 722 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,839 Speaker 1: put through their blowholes does not killed them right away. 723 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,280 Speaker 1: It is incredibly painful. They've bleed out. They're separating mothers 724 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:08,759 Speaker 1: from their babies. It is I've never seen something more horrific. 725 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,360 Speaker 1: And for anybody who has not still doesn't know anything 726 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,680 Speaker 1: about what's happening in the Cove and Taiji. There is 727 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 1: a documentary called The Cove. It's very good. You should 728 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:22,600 Speaker 1: watch it. And then you had me go with you 729 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,960 Speaker 1: to the protest in Miami. 730 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:27,200 Speaker 2: That was Lolita. 731 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was Lolita. Can you tell us a little 732 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:31,320 Speaker 1: bit about Lolita? 733 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 2: She unfortunately, you know, I don't know. There was also 734 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 2: someone who took over the Miami c Aquarium who was 735 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:45,840 Speaker 2: I believe, pretending to have good faith in sending her home, 736 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 2: which is actually where I live now, because I moved 737 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:51,680 Speaker 2: to sort of the neck of the woods where I 738 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 2: felt I could do the most and was most inspiring 739 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:59,880 Speaker 2: to me. And she would have been rehabilitated here. But 740 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 2: I feel like, and I did at the time, that 741 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,760 Speaker 2: they weren't being entirely honest, you know, talking about raising 742 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 2: funds and keeping them. I don't think this organization had 743 00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 2: any real plans on releasing her. And the same with SeaWorld, 744 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 2: you know, like I did. I narrated the documentary on Quirky, 745 00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:25,160 Speaker 2: who is the longest held captive, and she's been there decades, 746 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,919 Speaker 2: like Lalita was there decades. And you know, Lalita's case 747 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:35,360 Speaker 2: was really tragic because her tank wasn't even a legal size, 748 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,160 Speaker 2: so there were so many reasons, you know, that she 749 00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,640 Speaker 2: should have been the one that was released, and sadly 750 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:46,960 Speaker 2: she passed away just recently under really suspect circumstances that 751 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:52,799 Speaker 2: haven't totally been revealed yet, you know. And it was 752 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:59,880 Speaker 2: me and Paul Watson and one other person who said 753 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:02,879 Speaker 2: they have no intention of releasing her. This is all 754 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,080 Speaker 2: just a smoke screen. It was all just a stall tactic, 755 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,680 Speaker 2: and nobody really wanted to hear that, you know, But 756 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:14,120 Speaker 2: with organizations like that, who their business is owning dolphins 757 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:20,200 Speaker 2: and SeaWorld, there's very little hope. You know. We can 758 00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,560 Speaker 2: talk about it, we can make movies about it. We 759 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 2: can show how atrocious the tanks are and how dirty 760 00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,240 Speaker 2: and how bored they are, and how brilliant and smart 761 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,440 Speaker 2: and how they're meant to live with their families and 762 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:33,520 Speaker 2: be social, and we can do all that, but there's 763 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:37,439 Speaker 2: nothing that's going to convince a corporation to change their 764 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,880 Speaker 2: formula that's been making them money for decades without a 765 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 2: tidal wave of public opinion. And then fortunately there's just 766 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,759 Speaker 2: too many people who still go to SeaWorld and buy 767 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:52,319 Speaker 2: a ticket and basically fund abuse. There's just no other 768 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,800 Speaker 2: way to put it. You're funding animal abuse. 769 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,440 Speaker 1: I get it, right, Like I get someone having a 770 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:02,360 Speaker 1: kid and being like I want to I want my 771 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,480 Speaker 1: child to see this killer whale and this dolphin or 772 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:11,160 Speaker 1: this elephant or this I understand, but there are other 773 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:19,719 Speaker 1: ways sure to see these animals, to witness There are 774 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,440 Speaker 1: migrations that you can go see at any point in time, 775 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:28,160 Speaker 1: And then you're also teaching your child about respecting another 776 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:33,520 Speaker 1: being and what they're like in the wild. The corporations 777 00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:38,759 Speaker 1: have to have, yes, an outcry of human opinion, and 778 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,440 Speaker 1: it's got to hit them in their wallets. They cannot 779 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,360 Speaker 1: profit from it anymore. Once it becomes too expensive for 780 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:53,239 Speaker 1: them to buy them and house them and they're just 781 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:57,760 Speaker 1: not making the profit, that's when things might change. Also, 782 00:46:58,200 --> 00:46:59,960 Speaker 1: the regulations need to be better. 783 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:04,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're losing money now, they're actually getting sued for 784 00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:08,080 Speaker 2: lying to stockholders about how much they were actually losing 785 00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:12,120 Speaker 2: because of the blackfish effect that they call it. But 786 00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:17,160 Speaker 2: the fact of the matter is if you don't humanize, 787 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,279 Speaker 2: and I don't like to do that with animals, but 788 00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:24,600 Speaker 2: if you don't humanize the issue, people don't really care 789 00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:26,840 Speaker 2: and go throughout their days. So like the campaign I 790 00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,359 Speaker 2: did with Peda was pretty smart because they said, you know, 791 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,040 Speaker 2: moms shouldn't take their babies to SeaWorld because what happens is, 792 00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:38,319 Speaker 2: especially with orcas, the sons in the wild live with 793 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,759 Speaker 2: their mothers their entire life, their entire life, they do 794 00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:46,440 Speaker 2: not leave their mothers, and in SeaWorld they separate the 795 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:51,040 Speaker 2: babies from their moms, separate families and there's literally like 796 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,319 Speaker 2: they scream out, shaking and crying when this happens, like 797 00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:58,600 Speaker 2: there's a family bond with orcas that we can't even 798 00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,560 Speaker 2: understand as humans because they have a whole different part 799 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,800 Speaker 2: of their brain that is a sense of community, community 800 00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,680 Speaker 2: and family that we don't even have, Like they literally 801 00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,400 Speaker 2: have a different part of the brain that is just 802 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,600 Speaker 2: for this. So we know enough to know this about them, 803 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,400 Speaker 2: and we know that after five decades, this is torture 804 00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,880 Speaker 2: for them. And the only thing I can really do 805 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,440 Speaker 2: without being a really big pain in the ass and 806 00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:27,200 Speaker 2: annoying is just tell people and inform people, let them 807 00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,520 Speaker 2: make their own decisions, and hopefully they'll decide. See world 808 00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,320 Speaker 2: is too expensive to watch something be miserable in a tank. 809 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:40,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, especially because there's other alternatives to seeing it. And 810 00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,920 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, go watch a documentary and show your child 811 00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,040 Speaker 1: through a documentary. It's far more interesting and far more 812 00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:51,719 Speaker 1: revealing than watching something be trained to do flips and 813 00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:56,719 Speaker 1: tricks because you're starving them with food and they're now 814 00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,960 Speaker 1: completely reliant upon a human being, because that's not natural, 815 00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,840 Speaker 1: that's not how they conduct themselves in the wild. So 816 00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:08,000 Speaker 1: at least have a true wild, authentic experience versus what 817 00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:13,040 Speaker 1: you're getting at a place like SeaWorld. I think. I 818 00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,200 Speaker 1: think the best idea I've heard in a long time 819 00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:16,520 Speaker 1: is as starting a foundation. 820 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,880 Speaker 2: Yeah that too. Well, we have a few ideas. 821 00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,000 Speaker 1: I mean we also have a deep love of well 822 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,400 Speaker 1: of all animals, but horses. We bonded over horses for 823 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,960 Speaker 1: a very long time. We still do. We both do 824 00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:34,680 Speaker 1: rescue work with horses. I just rescue you two when 825 00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,160 Speaker 1: got cancer in one eye has to be taken out. 826 00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's unfortunate. But they do adapt. They do adapt, 827 00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:42,680 Speaker 2: especially if they have a buddy. 828 00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:45,920 Speaker 1: She found a buddy at the kill pen, or her 829 00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:46,799 Speaker 1: buddy found her. 830 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that helps keep them calm and secure. 831 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,319 Speaker 1: And dogs, we had lots of conversations about dogs and 832 00:49:54,360 --> 00:50:00,560 Speaker 1: how to help and especially with how with high kill shelters. Yeah, 833 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,000 Speaker 1: I mean we do have a lot of We have 834 00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,200 Speaker 1: a lot of We have a lot of fires in 835 00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,080 Speaker 1: the oven right now. Yeah. 836 00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,319 Speaker 2: We have a lot of common interest and we kind 837 00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:12,560 Speaker 2: of always have and I think the ones we have cooking, 838 00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,800 Speaker 2: you know, are kind of a culmination of all those things. 839 00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:25,040 Speaker 2: I would agree, thank you, sure anytime? Great, No, not anytime. 840 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,360 Speaker 2: Let's see in like two hours, Yeah, great, awesome, All 841 00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:30,600 Speaker 2: right 842 00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,640 Speaker 1: Well that's let's be Clear with Shannon Doherty with special 843 00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:37,200 Speaker 1: guests Holly Murray Colms love her, Love you guys, Thanks 844 00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:37,680 Speaker 1: for listening.