1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:06,479 Speaker 1: And now move the Sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks. 2 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 2: What's up everybody. 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 3: Welcome to move the Sticks, DJ, Buck, and we're joined 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 3: by our good friend Tom Telesco, longtime general manager of 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 3: the National Football League. Tom, thanks for taking the time. 6 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 3: How you doing, man, Hey, I'm doing great. Thanks for 7 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 3: having me on, guys. 8 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:20,119 Speaker 2: I appreciate you doing this. 9 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 4: Man. 10 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 3: This is the first question. I just come out right 11 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 3: out the gate. What the heck are you up to? 12 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 3: What are you doing? 13 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: I got a lot of time on my hands right now, DJ. 14 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: But now I'm just just trying to fill the void. 15 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: You know, I'm a football guy at heart, so you know, 16 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: doing things like this, doing a little bit of serious 17 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: XM radio with with NFL Radio and volunteering at the 18 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: local high school, just trying to fill the football void. 19 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 4: You got to see the Sea Kings. He gets the CDM, 20 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 4: he got the Sea Kings on. I know they throw 21 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 4: it all over to the yard. 22 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:54,279 Speaker 1: Here the opposite were the complete opposite of Grenada Hills, complete. 23 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 2: Opposite throwing it all over to the yard. 24 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 4: Doing this stuff. 25 00:00:58,760 --> 00:00:59,639 Speaker 2: Have you ever played them? 26 00:00:59,680 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 5: Buck? 27 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 2: None? No, different class, different w No. But when you 28 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 2: were at maybe maybe your previous time Notre Dame. 29 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 5: No, when I was at Notre Dame, we never had 30 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 5: a chance to see him. But at the time they 31 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 5: had the quarterback. I think they had Garber's and they 32 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 5: had Yeah, and I think I think John Humphreys they 33 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 5: had a wide receiver that he might have had one 34 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 5: hundred and twenty some receptions. Because they throw it DJ 35 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 5: literally they throw it every down. It's a four hour 36 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 5: it's a four hour commitment. It's a four hour commitment. 37 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,839 Speaker 5: When we're in Orange County. We got quarterbacks and receivers 38 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 5: all over the place. Down here, we have a hard. 39 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: Time finding offensive defensive lineman. 40 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 2: But we can throw it. That's fantastic. 41 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 3: There's luxury car dealers in Orange County, there's insurance salesmen, 42 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 3: and there's private quarterback coaches. Those are the very largest 43 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 3: industries in Orange County. One of the things I want 44 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 3: to hit you on because we were talking about this 45 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 3: the other day, about some of the stuff, the comments 46 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 3: from Robert Sala last week and how that ended up 47 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 3: being kind of a kerfuffle, which seemed like much ado 48 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 3: about nothing when the way me and Bucker were looking 49 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 3: at because this is this has been part of football 50 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 3: for so long in terms of trying to get signals, 51 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 3: and we even mentioned it before, you and I had 52 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 3: a conversation off the air. Buck was like, oh, the 53 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,839 Speaker 3: Colts were the reputation is being the absolute best. 54 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: At being able to do this, and. 55 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 3: Howard Mudd got Howard Mud got a lot of the credit. 56 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 3: But it was a lot more that went into that, 57 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 3: wasn't there. 58 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 2: Tom. 59 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 4: Yeah. 60 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, when I saw the comments 61 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: like what are we doing here, because like this is 62 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, we have coach to player communications and helmets, 63 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: so there really shouldn't be a whole lot of signaling 64 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: unless you're in a no huddle situation. 65 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 3: I think he was talking about shifts, so in other words, 66 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 3: like if we were to shift and then they were 67 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 3: to change, they were to signal to change coverage or 68 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 3: change you know what they were doing with the front. 69 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 3: That's why they were trying to motion and shift to 70 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 3: see if they could get them to give a hand 71 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 3: signal to change a check or change a call. 72 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 4: Yeah. 73 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: I mean maybe, and that's probably the case, but yeah, 74 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: I mean going back to you know, pre I guess 75 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: it'd be pre two thousand and eight because spy Kate 76 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 1: was two thousand and seven. 77 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 2: That could be a different show. But yeah, So when 78 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 2: I was a pro scout, like. 79 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: I'm on the road doing advances and you know I'm 80 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: there to acquire information. 81 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 2: You know, I don't want to call you know, stealing. 82 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: Signals, but you know you're doing it legally with your eyes, 83 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,519 Speaker 1: with binoculars, with pen and paper. And it was funny 84 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: because NFL defensive coordinators they were notorious for not changing 85 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: their signals, not using multiple signalers on the sidelines. You 86 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: don't know who's live and who's a dummy. And they 87 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: never blocked their signals. So the coordinator to walk out 88 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: to the white of the sideline if they're going to 89 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: run over Saw, you know saw Sam and will blitz 90 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: covered to it. 91 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 2: It would literally be over Saw too. 92 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 4: It was like. 93 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 2: You're not even trying. 94 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: Ever the old road Runner dynamite where he's going like this, 95 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: both backers are blitzing like it was not hard. But okay, 96 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: but you mentioned Howard Mudd. So I go off to 97 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: San Diego to scout the Chargers and way Phillips was 98 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: the defensive coordinator and Wade was on the sidelines with 99 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: this strength coach. Next to him, and they're both signaling, 100 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: and I couldn't tell who was live who was the dummies. 101 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: So I came back with with nothing. Because you can't 102 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: get you try and guess the signals, you're screwed. Yeah, 103 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: so I come back with nothing. Howard Mudd just blew 104 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: up at me. But you know he only yelled at 105 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: those who you loved. But I didn't want to guess, 106 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: and so we had nothing. But you know, it's not 107 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: hard to conceal these signals, but we have to least try. 108 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, if you're gonna. 109 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: Shift a motion and you look for hands signals, I mean, yeah, 110 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: that's been going on pribly since the forties and fifties. 111 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 3: So for the for the real quick book, just for 112 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 3: the the uh, the execution of something like this, right, 113 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 3: So I would I saw our pro guys doing the 114 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 3: same stuff when I was in Baltimore. But then my 115 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 3: question is, then, is that is that something that then 116 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 3: gets transferred to the coaching staff. Does I go direct 117 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 3: to player? What's the what's the channel of information? Yeah, 118 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 3: it would, it would go to the coaching staff first. 119 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 3: Like with us, it was, you know, the offensive line 120 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 3: coach was so good at it. 121 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: He did a wait before I was even there, when 122 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: he was back with the Seahawks. 123 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 2: But yeah, we would go back. 124 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 1: I would log in every down distance, instant yard line, 125 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: and I would just put the signal on there, and 126 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:03,799 Speaker 1: then I'd. 127 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 2: Go down to Howard's office and I'd. 128 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: Have to kind of act out the signals so we 129 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: could actually see what everything was. 130 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 2: So I'd act him out in front of Howard. 131 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: Howard would take that information and then Howard, you know, 132 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: on game day, Howard was staying in a certain spot 133 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: on the sideline. He'd watch that defensive coordinator and you're 134 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: not going to get every single play, but you know, 135 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: if you can get certainly if you can get a 136 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: blitz that was big, or at. 137 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 2: Least get the coverage. But the blitz was the big thing. 138 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: And he'd look right down at the defensive coordinator and 139 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: if he saw something, he would tell Tom Moore on 140 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 1: the headset and then you know, we went no huddle, 141 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: so you can then you can send into the quarterback 142 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: and the way you go. But everybody did it. Then 143 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 1: I did it legally did it with your eyes and 144 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: pen and pencil, and you go back and you log it. 145 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: Now videotaping. That's a whole different that that's not right, 146 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: and that's illegal obviously by the NFL standards and in college, 147 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: but it just doesn't happen much anymore because of the 148 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: player to coach communications system. 149 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 4: So two things. 150 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 5: One, Tom knows this because when I went to Buffalo 151 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 5: in the nineties, like they were at the look the 152 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 5: frontier of the no huddle movement. Yeah, part of the 153 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 5: advantages of going fast is you forced the defense to 154 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 5: play vanilla and so very early in the game, whatever 155 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 5: they were in, they stayed in. Yes, down the line. 156 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 5: When I play defense, what we were doing is funny, 157 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 5: right Because Tom is talking about stealing the signals. One 158 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 5: of the things that defensive players were taught to do 159 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 5: is a signal the check. So when I look at 160 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 5: the tape, I know that everyone got the information. So 161 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 5: if it was something where they moved formation and we 162 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 5: changed the cover three and everyone padded their head, well, 163 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 5: it doesn't take a brain surgeon to be able to 164 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 5: figure out, Hey, every time we move they pat their heads, 165 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 5: what's the coverage that they go to? 166 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 4: Oh, this means three. And that is part of it. 167 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 5: Because defensive coordinators were so scared of the communication not 168 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 5: being relayed to the players that they had us confirmed 169 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 5: the signs as much as they talked about the opposite guy. Still, 170 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 5: that a lot of it is on the defensive coaches 171 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 5: not trusting that their players could verbally communicate or know 172 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,119 Speaker 5: what they were supposed to do without someone basically double 173 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 5: checking the work. 174 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, and just change the signal every now and then. Yeah, 175 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: this doesn't have to be covered three for seventeen weeks. 176 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fantastic. 177 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, I think they've gotten a little bit a 178 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 3: little bit better at it. And like you said, once 179 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 3: you have that speaker in your headset for the quarterback 180 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 3: eliminated a lot a lot of that stuff. I want 181 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 3: to get in some team building stuff, Tom, And this 182 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 3: is where you know, having someone who's built playoff rosters 183 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 3: a bunch of them during your time we were you know, 184 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 3: we're looking at all. 185 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 2: These injuries at the quarterback position so far this year. 186 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 3: We've seen a bunch including high profile guys like Joe 187 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 3: Burrow and Lamar Jackson just got nicked up and Rock 188 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 3: Perty's been hurt and on and on and on and on, 189 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 3: And I think that the uh, the common refrain you 190 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 3: here is well, how the heck do we not invest 191 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 3: more money in the backup quarterback. There's a supply ish you, 192 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 3: then there's also the cost. But how did you guys 193 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 3: when you were scrimmaging that in terms of placing the value? 194 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 3: Because I know the old stories. I've heard Tom Moore 195 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 3: from from his from his mouth what his thoughts were 196 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 3: on the backup quarterback behind Peyton, But just the teams 197 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 3: that you've that you've run, what was your philosophy on 198 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 3: that investment and what was the way you want about it? 199 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 2: Well? 200 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: I know it was when I was with the Colts 201 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: when Peyton Manning was there and Bill Point was the GM, 202 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: and then when I went the Chargers. For a long 203 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: time we had Philip Rivers. It was hard to get 204 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: veteran backup quarterbacks that had talent to come because they 205 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: knew they were never going to play. But certainly as 206 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: a GM, you look at your cap and your cash 207 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 1: and you have all these things that you want to 208 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: work on, and if you have a franchise quarterback, you'd 209 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: like to use money in other places and not at 210 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,959 Speaker 1: the backup quarterback spot. But in reality it's one of 211 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: the most important spots you have to budget for it, 212 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 1: and I think I mean last year, I think more 213 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: than half the starting quarterbacks went out with an injury 214 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: and miss games. 215 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 2: That's a lot. And I think as as. 216 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: Quarterbacks become more mobile as they play longer into their careers, 217 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: which means that injury high risk, the higher odds of 218 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: getting injured. Certainly how offensive line is played. You have 219 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: to invest in a backup quarterback, whether it's in free agency, 220 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: whether it's in a draft, maybe drafting a quarterback higher 221 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: than usually would when you already have one. But it's 222 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: something you have to budget for. It's kind of like 223 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,479 Speaker 1: it's kind of paying for insurance. The more you're paying premiums, 224 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: the more coverage you're going to get. And what you 225 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: don't want to do is have a playoff caliber team, 226 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: lose your starting quarterback and here season's done. But like 227 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: you said, the supply is also the problem because there 228 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: aren't sixty four qualities starting and quality high backup quarterbacks, 229 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: So you got to try and find them in their heart. 230 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 5: You know, tom So like playing upon that is one 231 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 5: thing to acquire a backup quarterback, it's another thing to 232 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 5: have him getting ready. So I always hear started quarterbacks 233 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 5: talk about they want to dominate. 234 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 4: They want to have all. 235 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,719 Speaker 5: The rest because that's how they get ready with If 236 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 5: there are one hundred reps in practice, how do you 237 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 5: allocate reps to the backup to get him ready? And 238 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 5: how do you develop the young quarterback if they don't 239 00:09:59,040 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 5: get enough reps? 240 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 4: Like, how do you manage both of those? How do 241 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 4: you serve both of those interests? 242 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, Unfortunately, a lot of that development is in the 243 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 1: offseason because you're right, just a lot of starting quarterbacks 244 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: they want every snap in the regular season and it's 245 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: hard to not give it to them. You only have 246 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: so much time on the practice field. I mean most teams, 247 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: you know, we're out out there for three or four hours. 248 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: We're out there for two hours, two hours and fifteen minutes. 249 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: You only have so many snaps. And you know Philip 250 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: Rivers he wants every snap. You know Peyton Manning wants 251 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: every snap. So for the backup quarterback, that's why preparation 252 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: football intelligence is so huge because a lot of your 253 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: development is going to have to be without the ball 254 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 1: in your hands. 255 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:36,119 Speaker 2: It's have to be in the meeting. 256 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: Room, knowing the playbook, getting mental reps at practice because 257 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: you're also a lot of times you're running the scout team, 258 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: which you needs to get some physical work where you're 259 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:45,439 Speaker 1: not getting the same mental works, you're not running the 260 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: same offense. So a lot goes into that position, and 261 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: a lot is very important. You know, your quarterback coach coordinator, 262 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: but certa of your quarterback coach, because that's really his 263 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: job is to develop your number two quarterback and your 264 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 1: number three if you have a nice, young developmental quarterback. 265 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 3: And no doubt the famous line, by the way I 266 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,839 Speaker 3: referenced earlier, which was when Tom Moore was asked, at 267 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 3: one point in time, why you know, why don't you 268 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 3: give your backup quarterback any reps? Peyton gets all the 269 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 3: reps every single week. You don't give the backup any reps. 270 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 3: He goes, look, we all know if Peyton Manning gets hurt, 271 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 3: we're screwed. Why would you want to practice being screwed? 272 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 3: That was that was like one of the lines on 273 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 3: there of like, hey, this the whole thing is over. 274 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 3: This guy goes down like there's no save in it. 275 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 3: You know, this is there's one of one when it 276 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 3: comes to him, which gives me the next thing, Tom, 277 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 3: You've had a chance to build teams around a veteran quarterback, 278 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 3: you've also had a chance to build teams around a 279 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 3: young quarterback. What what goes into the thought process of 280 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 3: how you surround those two guys and how is it different. 281 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: It's definitely different, just based on honestly, number one, how 282 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: much money they're banking. So obviously, if you have a 283 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: veteran quarterback on a big contract, your team's being made 284 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: up a little bit different. It's gonna have to be younger, 285 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: it's going to have to have more not rookie players, 286 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: but players are rookie contracts. But and then at offense, 287 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: like I just felt like, if you have a franchise quarterback, 288 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: whether he's a younger world or he needs to have 289 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: people around him, he needs to have weapons. That's the 290 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: way the culture built and that's why the charges are 291 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: building it right now. You got to have an offensive line, 292 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: you gotta have weapons to throw to, and sometimes that 293 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: may take away some talent on defense, which means you've 294 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: got to have like. 295 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 2: A top flight defensive coordinator. 296 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: But I think with a lot of these younger quarterbacks 297 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: that we're seeing right now, the franchise quarterbacks, it's so 298 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: important to either have a tight end that you know 299 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: can work the middle of the field, separate and get open. 300 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: Or you know a young or veteran receiver that you 301 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: know as a top flight route runner and he's going 302 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: to be where he's supposed to be when he's supposed 303 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: to be there one of the time. Kind of the 304 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: way Keenan Allen has been for Justin Herbert to have 305 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: that security blanket for a young quarterback that you're building 306 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: with that he knows. I think this is where I 307 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: can go on third and eight. And then as your 308 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: quarterback gets older, like I said, your team has to change. 309 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: When we're with the Chargers, we knew even before we 310 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: signed Justin Herbert to the big contract a year or 311 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: two before we knew were start transitioning our team to 312 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: a little bit younger in certain areas. That's just the 313 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:04,839 Speaker 1: way you're going to have to do it. As you 314 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: pay your quarterback, so you're how you build it is 315 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: going to have to change depending on how much you're 316 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: paying your quarterback. 317 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 2: And that's where everybody goes about it. 318 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 5: You know, Tom, it's funny when you talk about the 319 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 5: team building process around the quarterback and those things I 320 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 5: want to ask you about when you make the decision 321 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 5: to pay the quarterback, the young quarterback, and people kind 322 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 5: of get into year four and you're making that decision 323 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 5: whether they pick up the option in those things in 324 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 5: your mind, how many games does it take to make 325 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 5: a decision on a young quarterback, because I've heard Bill 326 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 5: Brian Bilick we talk about thirty to thirty two games. 327 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 4: And then when you make that. 328 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 5: Decision, how uneasy is it to commit to it when 329 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 5: you may not have seen just enough to make that 330 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 5: final decision. 331 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: That's a great question. I think it's more subjective. I mean, 332 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: I could be flipping and say, justin Herbert's first drive 333 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:00,719 Speaker 1: against the Kansas City Chiefs, at that point did I mean, 334 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: you can laugh about what we didn't know at that point, 335 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: but it was certainly a great start. 336 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 2: You know, that's a good question. I think, you know, we. 337 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: Do rely on a lot of on a lot of 338 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: data to help us make decisions, but there is some 339 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: of it that you get to a certain point of 340 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,439 Speaker 1: a young quarterbacks career you just know like, hey, this 341 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: is a guy, this is a guy we know we 342 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: can win with. This is the guy who want to 343 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: build around. How long does that take? I mean, quite honestly, 344 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: with with Justin Herbert is probably after the first year, 345 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: which isn't a lot of playtime, but you can see 346 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: because you know you're around these guys every day. A 347 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: big part of the guy you're an invest in is 348 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: how is he one day through Saturday in the building? 349 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 2: What type of leader is he? What's his character? 350 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 4: Like? 351 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 2: What's his football intelligence? Like? 352 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: Like you you scout all that and you evaluate it 353 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: in the draft process, but until you really have them 354 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: every single day, you don't really know. 355 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: So you get a full year with a player, you 356 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:50,359 Speaker 2: get a pretty. 357 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: Good feel for them off the field as far as 358 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: you know what what they bring to the team, because 359 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: they're gonna be the face of your franchise. And then 360 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: once you decide in your head like hey, this is 361 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: the guy, that's when you have to start adjusting how 362 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: you how you build a roster. You can't wait to 363 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: once you sign him with the big contract. Now say 364 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: all right, we have. 365 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 2: To you know, we have to. 366 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: Now you know, with our salary cap, we're going to 367 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: have to let some some older veterans go, and you know, 368 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: have some more rookie contracts. So you got to start 369 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: that at least two years beforehand, So the quicker, you know, 370 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: the better, but obviously the larger body of work makes 371 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: you make the right decision. But I think at the 372 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: quarterback spot, you kind of know it when you see it, 373 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: and you know with him, you certainly did. 374 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. 375 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 3: I was ready to just uh just walk down the 376 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 3: down the road and just tell the Spans fan you 377 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 3: go ahead and pay him after after he gave in. 378 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 2: That first drive against Kansas City, didn't. 379 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 4: We didn't. 380 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 3: I was trying to still trying to figure out how 381 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 3: you got on the field that money. And I were 382 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 3: sitting there calling the game going justin Herberts, and we 383 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 3: didn't know what had happened with Torod Taylor, so we 384 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 3: were we were trying to see it on the go. 385 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 2: I really see it. I was. 386 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: I was on the phone with the bench fingure like 387 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: what happened to Tarrod Taylor? Yeah, you know, everything happens 388 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: so quickly, and then with he had going on, you know, 389 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: as as a general manager, like you're you know, you're 390 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: concerned about your players, want to make sure he's ok. 391 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: And then you know, I look up, but I see 392 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: justin running into the end zone. That's great, nothing, but 393 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: you know that's just you know, part of being a GM, 394 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: you're you know, you work on some other things at 395 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: the same time the game's going on. 396 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's wild man. All right, we're gonna take quick break. 397 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 4: Come back. 398 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 3: I've got a little factor fiction I want to hit 399 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 3: Tom up on, so we'll do that right after this. 400 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 2: All right, Tom, I'm gonna hit you. 401 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 3: On two real quick here, because these are things that 402 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 3: have We've talked about a lot over the years, and 403 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 3: I want to I want to get your opinion as 404 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 3: someone who's run a club Factor fiction here. We always 405 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 3: say that a team takes on the identity of their leaders, 406 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 3: and that whether that's the head coach, ineral manager, quarterback, 407 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 3: however you want to look at it, you buy into 408 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 3: that factor fiction fact. 409 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: Hundred percent, and that that's definitely something we talked about. 410 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: You know, when you're interviewing head coaches, the identity of 411 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: your team is directly reflected in your head coach, especially 412 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: the character of your head coach. And to me, the 413 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: most important part of team building is having an identity 414 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: on both the ball. 415 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 2: It's hard to get to. 416 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 1: You can see the teams that have been consistent winners 417 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: in this league. You know, when you put the tape 418 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: on what you're going to get on both sides of 419 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: the ball, even as the players change, because players come 420 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: in and out and coaches changed too, But to have 421 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: an identity on both sides of the ball is so 422 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: important and that comes from that coach. 423 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 3: Then the last one, I'll ask you just quickly, do 424 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 3: you need to And I guess I'll just put it 425 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 3: to you like this, do you need to draft toughness 426 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 3: or can you develop toughness? 427 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: Oh boy, I want to say draft you either have 428 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: it or you don't in my mind, and if you 429 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: had the toughness you had always going all the way 430 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: back to Pop Warner to high school to college, and 431 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's some things you can do in your 432 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: program at the pro level to maybe make sure you 433 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: bring it out of the player. But I'd like to 434 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 1: hear your guys's point in our opinions on that too. 435 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 1: It's to me, either have it or you don't. But 436 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: I'd be curious to hear you guys on that one too. 437 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 5: I would say Tom, like, I believe you have to 438 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 5: have it in you, but I it can be enhanced 439 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 5: with peer pressure. And the reason why I say that 440 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 5: is as someone who went from offense to defense in 441 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 5: Kansas City, when I walked into the building with Marty 442 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 5: Schottenheimer and there was an expectation that everybody had to 443 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 5: do that. 444 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 2: There's a pressure that you have, like, well, I don't 445 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:18,479 Speaker 2: want to be the weekly. 446 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 5: And when you have those things, if you're competitive, if 447 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 5: the person is competitive, they can raise it up a notch. 448 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 5: I would never be a trained killer, but I knew 449 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:28,719 Speaker 5: when you're the hood with Dale Carter and James Hasty 450 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 5: and Derek Thomas, like, I can't be the one that 451 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 5: is the weekly because they're gonna look at me. 452 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 4: So I do believe they have to have it. 453 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 5: But I think your environment, if it's always talked about 454 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 5: discuss physicality, toughness, how we get after it. I do 455 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 5: believe it becomes an organizational thing and the guys that 456 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 5: come in when they walk through those doors, they know, hey, 457 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 5: this is how we go about doing our business. 458 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 3: I would say from the Baltimore stuff, which was, you know, 459 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,479 Speaker 3: probably the toughest team or the team those viewed as 460 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 3: the toughest team in the league that for that period 461 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 3: of time, it was still nine out of ten of 462 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 3: the guys we brought in were tough like they they 463 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 3: came in with that toughness, and then we would have 464 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 3: we would make exceptions one one guy here, one guy there. 465 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,479 Speaker 3: And that was the famous Rex line in the UH 466 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 3: in the draft firm, where we say we have enough ants, 467 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 3: we can carry a cockroach. Like you know, it's kind 468 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 3: of like you can make you can have some one 469 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 3: offs of these. But I also think it was because 470 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 3: that culture could could pull that out of you know, 471 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 3: one or two players. You just couldn't bring in a 472 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 3: wave of them and let that group outnumber. 473 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 2: The tough group. 474 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 3: But then I go from there to Cleveland and you know, 475 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 3: I was like, we don't have a bus driver here, 476 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 3: We don't have somebody to steer that, so you have 477 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 3: to avoid those players. It made it scouting much harder 478 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 3: when you're a team that doesn't already have that tough identity. 479 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 3: Because if you want to become a tough team, Tom, 480 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 3: you've got to those guys are off your board, Like, 481 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 3: you can't bring those guys into that environment because it's 482 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 3: going to get worse. 483 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a filter. 484 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: You know, if you want to be a fast football team, 485 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: don't draft slow players. 486 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 2: Is this in rocket science? If you want to be. 487 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,360 Speaker 1: You want to be a tough football team, don't bring 488 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: in guys who either don't love football or like soft. 489 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, maybe you. 490 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: Can improve them a little bit, But Buck, I do 491 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 1: agree with you on that, Like once you have once 492 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: you have the tough players, you can still have the culture. 493 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: Make sure you're bringing out of them and first being 494 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,199 Speaker 1: the weak link. What you don't want to have is 495 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 1: on Monday when they show the clip to everybody in 496 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: the room and all of a sudden you're dunking your 497 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: head and you're missing a tackle on the perimeter and 498 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: everybody sees it. 499 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 2: You don't want to be that guy. 500 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, but you know what, that also speaks to having 501 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 5: a level of accountability in the building. So when we 502 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 5: talk about toughness, I don't think you have a tough 503 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 5: team without having different levels of accountability. That's coach to player, 504 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 5: but also player the player because where he gets tough 505 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 5: and you know Tom, for those old teams in Buffalo, 506 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 5: the worst thing DJ is not having the answer to 507 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 5: a coach, but having to answer to Bruce Smith and 508 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 5: Darryl Talley and those guys. Like having to walk into 509 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 5: those huddles with those players looking at you sideways. That's 510 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 5: when you have had me going. And I will say 511 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 5: that I think is Buffalo. That experience was unusual because 512 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 5: we didn't have pads on much. We didn't do a 513 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 5: whole lot of hitting and contact, but that was a 514 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 5: very physical team, maybe because it was an older team, 515 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 5: but it was a weird environment being young and seeing 516 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 5: that play out, Like we don't have pazz on we 517 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 5: practice him for ninety minutes, and we're a team that's going. 518 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 2: To force three Super Bowls? How is this possible? 519 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 4: That's what it was. 520 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 2: Fuck it. 521 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: But can you imagine you're in the huddle with Darryl Tally, 522 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: I mean Darryl Tally. 523 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 2: I mean that's one. 524 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,959 Speaker 1: Intimidating guy, so you better make every talking behind him. 525 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 3: That's fantastic. God, those are fun teams, man. Yeah, And 526 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 3: just the Cowboys came along at the wrong time or 527 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 3: they've got a couple of Super Bowls. Tom want to 528 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 3: ask you about two players here, and we kind of 529 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 3: wrapped this one up here in just a moment. 530 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 2: But you've drafted two players with. 531 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 3: Unique ability, and I would say over the last ten 532 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 3: to fifteen years, I don't know that we've seen more 533 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 3: than one Derwin James and I don't know that we've 534 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 3: seen more than one Brock Bowers. I know it's early 535 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 3: on Bowers, but when you look at those two players, 536 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 3: what did you see on him on college tape? And 537 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 3: how confident were you that all the incredible stuff they 538 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 3: did at that level was gonna was going to happen 539 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 3: for him at the next level. 540 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:18,360 Speaker 4: Yeah. 541 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: Well, with with Derwin James, and you probably remember this 542 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: his last year at Florida State, they did not have 543 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: a good team. I remember going to see Florida State 544 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: at Boston College and it just wasn't your normal Florida 545 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: State team as far as playing with energy, playing with physicality, 546 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 1: and they had some talent, but just wasn't the same. 547 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 1: But yet he was the guy that just kept showing 548 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 1: up and once we dropped them. Once you get to 549 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: know him, you can see why. Like his football character 550 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: is second to nine. I've never been around anybody like 551 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: him that's such a great teammate leader, smile on his face, 552 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: but holds people accountable and holds people accountable the right way. 553 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,479 Speaker 1: And then all of his physical attributes of size and speed, 554 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: and you know he can play almost any position on 555 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: the field and what was nice too in those situations 556 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: because uh, you know, Florida State had a bad year. 557 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 1: You have to kind of filter through our scouts where 558 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: you know, with Kevin Kelly being the director, like right, 559 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: you get very few consensus players. You know, always want 560 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: consensus players, but everybody was right down the road, right 561 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: down where they need to be with him as far 562 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: as a player. And then just the versatility you can 563 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,199 Speaker 1: do so much and use so many different ways. And 564 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: then brock Bauer is just you know, a little bit 565 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: different situation for us. But the Raiders, it's just you know, 566 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: we had we didn't have enough talent across the board 567 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: and over you know, they had a lot of regime changes, 568 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 1: they'd missed on a lot of first round draft picks, 569 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: and I know, going in, I just want to make sure, like, 570 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: whoever we take with this first pick, it needs to 571 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: have the highest odds of success because we have to 572 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: keep we have to start adding some talent to this team. 573 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: We can't miss on a player. And obviously we know 574 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 1: we could have used a quarterback at that point. And 575 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: we're also looking at it like, you know, do we 576 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: have the infrastructure right right now to really support you know, 577 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 1: a franchise quarterback. You know, our offensive line was in flux. 578 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: We didn't have any weapons on offense. At defense, we 579 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: had some pieces, but not enough. And with Brock Bauers, 580 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: I mean, nobody is a Cantonus. There's no guarantees. But 581 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: he was about as high as a player as I've 582 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 1: ever seen with how he played the game with the 583 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: skill set and then is off the field, his work 584 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: ethic is intangible. So you know, to be a great 585 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 1: player in this league, you got to have both. You 586 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: got to have the talent level, the speed, the explosion, 587 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 1: the strength, the size, but you got to have the intangibles, 588 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: the work ethic, the preparation, the love of the game. 589 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: And if you can find those two, and it's easier 590 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: said than done. Sometimes we think we found it and 591 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: it doesn't happen. But those two guys had it to 592 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: the first degree. 593 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 5: What's funny Tom is having known Derwin since he was sixteen, 594 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 5: seventeen years old. 595 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 4: I just remember like being around him. 596 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 5: I coached the team that he was on, and I've 597 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 5: never seen someone so passionate about playing a game. And 598 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 5: he had come back, he was already a Florida State 599 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 5: and he's helping us out at a Nike it and 600 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 5: that passion was just ridiculous. And I want to ask you, like, 601 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 5: when you talk about like the football character, I think 602 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 5: is really important for our listeners to understand, what do 603 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 5: you mean when it comes to football character? 604 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 4: What exactly are the things that y'all are? 605 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 5: We talk about more character being a good person, but 606 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 5: when it comes to character related to football, what the 607 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 5: things that define it? 608 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 1: You know, it's so funny because we talk about football 609 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: character all the time, but trying to actually evaluate it, 610 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: it's really hard. 611 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 2: It's so subjective. 612 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,199 Speaker 1: But you know, because we talk about, hey, passion for 613 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: the game. Love for the game's easy to say, but 614 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 1: you know, how do you really tell? 615 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 4: Now? 616 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: With Derwin his style of play, If you watch the tape, 617 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 1: you can kind of see like the passionate plays with, 618 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,239 Speaker 1: but then after you meet them it's even more so. 619 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,360 Speaker 2: He was actually pretty easy when you. 620 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: Talk about a passion to play, a passion to get 621 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: better as a player, because at this, you know, the 622 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: college level, a lot of these kids they can produce 623 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: because there's so much more talented than the players are 624 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: playing against. They're playing against a lot of players who 625 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: won't play NFL football. You get to this level, everybody's good, 626 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: so you have to keep improving. So you have to 627 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: have that we call it what we would call it 628 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: drive and desire, a drive and desire to be great 629 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: and has to keep improving at this level. So those 630 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: are two important things, but you have to but evaluating 631 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,199 Speaker 1: that at the college level it's just really hard. And 632 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: that's you know, we interview players, and interviews were important, 633 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: but to me, they weren't the most important thing. The 634 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: most important thing to me was the information. There are scouts, 635 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: so we get at the school from the sources they 636 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: have that know that player for an extended amount of time, 637 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 1: maybe recruited them and had them for two or three 638 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: years in college. And then if our scout had a 639 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: good relationship with that source, that was really good, unbiased 640 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: as much as you can without an agenda, information who 641 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:50,719 Speaker 1: saw the player on a day to day basis. 642 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 2: That to me was much more important. 643 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: That information was more important to me than a combine 644 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: interview that we felt was really was a great combine interview. 645 00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,919 Speaker 1: It's good that I happened, and that's it's good, you know, 646 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 1: first piece to puzzle. But you can get fooled in 647 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,959 Speaker 1: interviews too. In fifteen twenty minutes, we have to bring 648 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 1: a guy in for a day in a thirty visit. 649 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: So the information we received from the school, from people 650 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: who know the players, they give us the best picture 651 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: of the player. 652 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 2: Was the most important part for me. 653 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that term we've been using too is 654 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 3: care factor, like just having a real, real high care 655 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 3: factor and trying to figure out that information is the 656 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 3: tricky part. 657 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 2: Tom. I think you're. 658 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 3: Almost in these interviews and they're so condensed, and they're 659 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 3: so formatted, and everybody's been so trained almost thought. Even 660 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,919 Speaker 3: just when we have guys on conversationally, I think you 661 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 3: learn more asking them about their teammates than you do 662 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 3: ask them about themselves. 663 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 2: That's a good point. 664 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 1: And with the interview, certainly at the combine where you 665 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: have twenty minutes, you have to be very strategic with 666 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: how you want to handle it to try and pull 667 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: out some answers. And because again a lot of it's scripted, 668 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 1: a lot of it, you know, a player may be 669 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: very guarded is in a room with a lot of 670 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: people who doesn't know. I think we have too many 671 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: people in the room to really get good to try 672 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: and cut it down. But yeah, you gotta be strategic 673 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: with how you want to ask the question is just 674 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: to get some good information out. And actually it was 675 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 1: just great to ask about their teammates because we can 676 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: learn what they think of their teammates and sometimes they're honest, 677 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 1: sometimes they're not. But try and find some untraditional ways 678 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 1: just to get a feel for the personality of the 679 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: player was really important. 680 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 2: It's fantastic, man. 681 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 3: This has been fun, Tom, so much fun that we're 682 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 3: gonna spread this out to another episode so we can 683 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 3: pick your brain a little bit on some big games 684 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 3: coming up this weekend, so that'll be on tomorrow's episode. 685 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 3: I appreciate everybody hanging with us today. We'll see you 686 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 3: right back here tomorrow on Move the Sticks.